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One of our cardinal tetras is not as bright red as the other three. She's somewhat whitish and bloated. She's swimming on her own, not hanging around the other fish too much, and she keeps swimming towards the top of the tank at an angle. She looks as if she's trying to stick her mouth out to breathe... oh and her mouth seems to be opening and closing at a faster rate than the other fish.

I called the LFS, they suggested putting a teaspoon of kosher salt in there to help with the bloating and they said she isn't a threat to the other fish. We're going to try feeding them a little now, to see if she's eating.

Oh... and I'm saying "she" but we really don't know the sex of this fish. Please help!!!!


Our tank: 45 gallons
7x Cardinal Tetras 7x Black Neon Tetras
7x Glowlight Tetras 2x Ottos 2x Ghost Shrimp 3x Spotted Corys 3x Panda Corys

I got a reply from another forum, we tried giving her a bath in a separate bowl with some kosher salt. She was swimming a little quickly, and looking at her from the top her scales seemed to be sticking out a little. She doesn't seem fuzzy, just bloated.

I'm not sure if it's constipation or a bacterial infection.

Our tank: 45 gallons
7x Cardinal Tetras 7x Black Neon Tetras
7x Glowlight Tetras 2x Ottos 2x Ghost Shrimp 3x Spotted Corys 3x Panda Corys

Have a look at this link to info

There is a lot of detailed info here it just might help you to establish what could be wrong with the Cardinal Tetra.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

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I'm wondering if it's constipation... there doesn't seem to be anything hanging out of her gills and she's not rubbing up against anything. She did rub up against some plants earlier but I think that was just a coincidence. She's mostly been free-floating.

We don't have a hospital tank, but right now I am seriously considering buying one in the morning. Would it be better to separate her??

Our tank: 45 gallons
7x Cardinal Tetras 7x Black Neon Tetras
7x Glowlight Tetras 2x Ottos 2x Ghost Shrimp 3x Spotted Corys 3x Panda Corys

This morning she is not looking good... she's propped up in the plants, still breathing rapidly. The other fish all seem fine and healthy, they became excited for breakfast when they saw as at the tank.

I'm going out in a bit to buy an extra little tank for her. We think it's too late at this point but at least it will keep the other fish from picking at her if she does pass. Besides, it can't hurt to have a hospital tank in the future.

Our tank: 45 gallons
7x Cardinal Tetras 7x Black Neon Tetras
7x Glowlight Tetras 2x Ottos 2x Ghost Shrimp 3x Spotted Corys 3x Panda Corys

Well... she's gone. We gave her a salt bath, tried to get her to eat a shelled, cooked pea but she wasn't interested. She swam about her little tank for a bit, but about 15 minutes ago she floated to the bottom and stopped breathing.

Our tank: 45 gallons
7x Cardinal Tetras 7x Black Neon Tetras
7x Glowlight Tetras 2x Ottos 2x Ghost Shrimp 3x Spotted Corys 3x Panda Corys

Hi,
Here is a link to a probable cause:

http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/information/Diseases.htm#Dropsy

And, here is a link to the site for future reference:

http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/information/Diseases.htm

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks... it does seem like it could have been dropsy, but we keep our tank clean. We do weekly water changes knowing we're on the cusp of overstocking. Whatever the cause was, I think we noticed the problem too late.

We buried her outside yesterday, my son put out a little "gravestone" for her. I had taken a pic before posting to try and give an idea of her condition, but it's hard to see what she really looked like.

At least we have one last picture of her...

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k16/PanClan06/IMG_1303.jpg

Our tank: 45 gallons
7x Cardinal Tetras 7x Black Neon Tetras
7x Glowlight Tetras 2x Ottos 2x Ghost Shrimp 3x Spotted Corys 3x Panda Corys

Sounds like Dropsy.

Dropsy results from chronic liver failure in the fish, which causes the fluid retention that results in the scales sticking out at an angle from the body instead of lying flush with the surface of the fish. Once it takes a hold, it tends to be incurable, because the cause of the chronic liver failure is beyoud our ability to assess - you would need to engage in some serious veterinary science to establish the cause of the liver failure. Even if the cause was a reversible one, and the fish could be brought back to health by antibitoics treating a bacterial infection, for example, you would have difficulty determining this beyond doubt. If the liver failure resulted from some other cause (e.g., extreme old age - I've had Cardinals that lived to nearly 8 years old and at that age, this tends to be one of the ways that they exit this world once they're that old) then there's nothing you can do unless you're able to perform a liver transplant on the fish, and frankly, that's beyond the remit of even the most cutting edge veterinary scientists at the moment.

I have a bunch of 18 month old Cardinals and one much older survivor from a previous aquarium disaster (water comapny dumped excess treatment chemicals down the tap and inflicted a wipeout on me), and the old one in the bunch must now be a good 6 years old. The only reason I know which one is the old one is because it's the largest - otherwise, I defy anyone to spot the old specimen without knowing that fact in advance, because the Cardinals all look alike!

Something else to watch out for in extremely old Cardinals is a peculiar condition in which the mouth locks open and the fish can't eat properly. When that happens, the fish stays close to the surface and doesn't shoal with the others, and just prior to death, the red colouration becomes really intense and the blue stripe turns almost violet. This is a sign that the fish is on its way out, but this particular condition only seems to affect Cardinals that are over 6 years old, and sometimes not until they're at least 8 years old. Considering that in the wild they are annual fishes with a one year life span, they do pretty well in an aquarium if they are cared for properly, and have a MUCH longer life than they would do in the wild. Theoretically, they could live beyond 8 years of age, but that's unusual even for well cared for Cardinals - 6 to 8 years is a good age though for such a small fish.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

We buried her outside yesterday, my son put out a little "gravestone" for her.

Awwww how sweet! Tell your son I'm sorry for his loss.

Thanks... unfortunately another one died today. This morning I was checking on them and noticed a black neon stuck to the filter, still breathing. When I tried to scoop him out his fins flailed wildly, but he couldn't swim away. I put him in the little hospital tank (it had been cleaned out after the other one died) and he just sank to the bottom, trying to swim but not being able to. Other than that, he looked fine... no bloating or white spots or anything unusual. I had the water from the big tank checked at the LFS and they said it was fine. The guy at the store thinks the first fish could have had a bacterial infection, then pooped and maybe the second fish ate the poop, thus getting himself infected. Tonight I did a total water change and cleaned out the gravel. Let's hope we can save the rest!!

We were considering bringing Herbie (the CAE) to the shop, they said they'd take him when he got bigger. My son won't hear of it, but we're wondering if now that he's bigger he could be creating more waste in our already somewhat crowded tank. So we're considering moving Herbie into the little 1.5 gallon tank we bought for the sick fish, at least that will help us see if he is indeed part of the problem.

It's very frustrating and upsetting, we've had these fish since July and things were going so well.

Our tank: 45 gallons
7x Cardinal Tetras 7x Black Neon Tetras
7x Glowlight Tetras 2x Ottos 2x Ghost Shrimp 3x Spotted Corys 3x Panda Corys

Okay, let me tell you something that SHOULD be far more widely disseminated, but isn't because the industry is too lazy to change its ways.

The fish you know as the "Chinese Algae Eater" is in fact an unusual creature that rejoices in the scientific name of Gyrinocheilus aymonieri. Here in the UK where I live, it's been known for years by an alternative common name, that of "Sucking Loach" (it isn't a true Loach, it belongs in its own little taxonomic Family, but that's a diversion we can skip here for the moment). While this fish does indeed live in China in the wild, whoever decided to call it the "Chinese Algae Eater" is in serious need of a size 12 boot applied to the rear end, because this is about the most inappropriate name this fish could be given. While it may exhibit some herbivorous tendencies as a juvenile, any such herbivorous tendencies it does exhibit are very definitely temporary, and once the fish starts to add some body mass, its diet undergoes considerable change. Worse still, this fish will, if given time, space and enough food, grow to an inordinate size. I've seen a specimen in a zoo aquarium that was 11 inches long. It's one of several inappropriate fishes sold to unsuspecting newcomers who are led to believe that because it has a sucking mouth, it must automatically be an algae eater, only to discover the hard way that this is a myth. Admittedly some of the BEST algae eating fishes do have a sucking disc for a mouth, but this is NOT one of them.

As for a replacement that WILL eat algae, please, PLEASE do NOT buy a Common Plec. Although a Common Plec is a true algae eater, it's even worse for your aquarium because it grows to TWO FEET IN LENGTH. It's a juggernaut when fully grown, and it produces waste on an industrial scale.

A FAR better choice for your modest sized aquarium would be an Otocinclus Catfish. These fishes are excellent algae eaters, only grow to a MAXIMUM size of two inches, and if acclimatised carefully to your aquarium (because quite a few of the poor things receive some fairly hardcore abuse at the wholesalers) they can become charming, peaceful, droll yet industrious workers that will last a good few years. One of mine lived to be over nine years old. However, you DO have to acclimatise them carefully, you can't just rip open the bag and drop them in or the shcok will do them in. I've had Otocinclus for 12 years and they've been marvellous throughout that time.

Oh, you'll discover along your journey that there's a LOT of bad advice in circulation in some dealerships. Big corporate ones are notorious for this. You will also find that there are a LOT of inappropriate fishes for sale that are, lamentably, sold each year to unsuspecting people such as yourself, and which are BAD choices for beginners. Don't even try to engage me on the subject of the abuse suffered by Oscars in the trade because I'll probably burst a major blood vessel during my fulminating, but that is only one example of the crassness manifest in the fish trade at times. There are fish species available which, if they were cultivated properly in numbers by fish farms and sold responsibly, would be FAR better choices for newcomers to the fishkeeping world than some of the ones currently on offer, but chances are you won't see them because at the moment, they don't make cash registers jingle loud enough, and won't do until enough people demand their appearance, which of course means people like me because newcomers can't be expected to know in advance the maintenance details of 10,000 fish species. I try my best pushing better choices and more responsible selling, but at the moment it's me against the world, so to speak, plus a few plucky souls among the other regulars here at FP.

You have NO idea how often I feel the urge to bang heads together over this.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

Thanks for the info... we have heard these fish grow large and aggressive, so far we've been lucky in that he hasn't been bothering the other fish. Unfortunately my son is too attached to let him go at this point.

Do we need an algae eater?? We change the water weekly and have never had a problem with algae. If so, would a shrimp be a good replacement??

Our tank: 45 gallons
7x Cardinal Tetras 7x Black Neon Tetras
7x Glowlight Tetras 2x Ottos 2x Ghost Shrimp 3x Spotted Corys 3x Panda Corys

"Do I need an algae eater?"

Now there is a question to keep you occupied in thought for some time!

First of all, let's take a closer look at algae.

Algae were the first of the true green plants on the planet. There were photosynthesising organisms in existence before the algae, namely the Cyanobacteria, but these differ fundamentally in cellular structure. Cyanobacteria are among the earliest of all life forms, and are what are termed 'prokaryotes' - primitive cells that lack a true cell nucleus. They have more in common with the bacteria than with the higher plants, other than the fact that they possess the machinery for photosynthesis. Algae, on the other hand, are true plants - their cells are 'eukaryote' cells that possess a true cell nucleus. In addition, the machinery for photosynthesis is integrated into special structures (chloroplasts) within those cells, and is more efficient than the photosynthetic machinery of the earlier cyanobacteria.

So, algae are true plants. From them, in turn, evolved the remaining members of the plant Kingdom, though a fair number of species of alga have survived into the present day, occupying a range of niches.

Because they are true plants, algae occupy an important part of the natural nutrient cycle - the cycle that takes us from fish wastes, through bacterial decomposition products through the ammonia, nitrites and nitrates generated by filter bacteria, the nitrates being among the compounds that are directly absorbed by plants as food. Therefore, if there are no higher plants available to take up these nutrients, algae will swiftly move in and capitalise upon this. Every natural body of water that contains a mix of animal and plant life contains algae of one sort or another, be those algae free-floating microscopic ones, substrate growing single-celled algae, or multicellular algae such as Spirogyra. In many cases these algae will be sharing such bodies of water with higher plants, while in some specialised habitats, the algae will be the only plant life present.

In an aquarium, you will always have some algae present once it becomes established and the filtration system is relatively stable. How much algae is present will depend upon the amount of plant nutrients being generated by the fishes and the filter bacteria, the presence or absence of higher plants competing for those nuteients, light levels, and the presence or absence of algae eating organisms.

Algae growing in abundance in a freshwater aquarium is a sign that either [1] the aquarium is too rich in nutrients (overstocked, or the fishes are overfed), or [2] in the case of lightly stocked aquaria, a sign that there are no controls upon the algae - be those in the form of competing higher plants or algal grazers. Frequently, abundant algal growth is regarded as an unwanted nuisance in the freshwater aquarium, even more so when the intention is to grow higher plants. However, in some specialied aquaria, algae have an important role to fulfil (one place where algae play an important role is in Rift Lake aquaria, as numerous Rift Lake fishes live in the wild in habitats where algae are the dominant forms of plant life). In a more typical community setup, however, especially a planted one featuring higher plants, abundant algae are usually considered an unwanted nuisance.

Fortunately, Nature has provided us with numerous creatures, fishes included, that graze upon the algae in question. The problem here is that if some form of algal control is deemed desirable, choosing the right fish for the job is something of a balancing act. I've already mentioned above that two of the commonest fishes sold as putative algae controllers are bad choices - one, Gyrinocheilus aymonieri, isn't an algae eater at all despite its name, and the other, the Common Plec, is more suited to a public aquarium than the typical home setup. There are, however, a range of other fishes that will perform the task admirably that are good choices for a modest sized aquarium.

As to whether you need one of these, this is a decision only you can make. If you have algae growing in there that is unsightly and detracts from the fishes, then an algal control of this kind is probably desirable, though addressing such matters as overstocking and overfeeding usually corrects many occurrences of algal abundance. In my case, I wanted to keep Otocinclus Catfishes and set about deliberately cultivaating algae so that they would have a ready food source when I took delivery of them!

As for algae eating shrimp, these work reasonably well, but ... you then have to ask the question "are my fishss going to eat the shrimp?" If all you have are small Tetras as your main aquarium occupants, then the adult shrimp will probably be fine, Baby shrimps produced by the adults may prove to be a different story, however!


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002

In our small tank, having the baby shrimp eaten might not be a bad idea!!

Thanks for the info... we tried talking to my son tonight, he's still not keen on the idea but we'll try to press him for the sake/health of the fish. Right now algae is present but not a problem, I guess we'll see as time goes by if we need a replacement.

Our tank: 45 gallons
7x Cardinal Tetras 7x Black Neon Tetras
7x Glowlight Tetras 2x Ottos 2x Ghost Shrimp 3x Spotted Corys 3x Panda Corys