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SubscribeHole in the Head
wayodust
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Fingerling
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male usa
I think one of my oscars has this. He's about 5inches and has a white mark that seems to be a depression on the most posterior part of his mouth. Theres also one just underneath his lateral line. So... two questions, What causes this? and... What is the best/easiest way to treat this?
Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 22:55Profile AIM PM Edit Report 
Bob Wesolowski
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Mega Fish
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male usa
HITH (Hole-In-The-Head), the sensory pores in the head enlarge and may become pus filled. Similar symptoms may erupt along the lateral line of the fish. The disease is often attributed to spironucles or hexamita as the organisms are pathologically found in the infection sites.

My personal experience is that the disease rises from a combination of factors - poor diet and poor water quality. A weel balanced diet suited to the fish together with attention to tank cleanliness often prevents and alleviates symptoms of the disease. Note that it most often strikes large, carnovorous fish that are also large waste producers such as oscars.

If the disease progresses, the fish will become lethargic and appear to have swim bladder problems.

My preferred treatment is tank maintenance with a change of diet. Measure your water parameters then do water changes to reduce nitrates to less than 10 ppm. If you have been feeding your oscar goldfish, you may have caused his disease by diet. Shift him to a good quality cichlid food.

Metrodiazonale will work with severe infections.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright
Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 16:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
wayodust
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male usa
I'd be really surprised by both. I do 25% water changes once a week and I feed them oscar pellets regularly and supplement live fish once, maybe twice a week.

I bought some melafix (before reading this) to see if it would help, I also didnt see anything specifically for HITH. I also did a 50% water change yesterday and will change the water again tomorrow, but probably only about 25% again.

Hopefully it will clear up and I won't have to go any farther in my frantic attempts at helping out my little guy. How long should it take for this to clear up, if it will?
Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2006 06:45Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
Bob Wesolowski
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IME it will take a week to see an alleviation of symptoms with scarring occuring during the next week. The pits will heal but will appear as lesions or scars.

You never did mention your water parameters, tank size or fish companions, if any. Do take a nitrate test before each water change, you may be surprised by the results.

Some meds may state that they are for HITH but metrodiazonale is an excellent med for the disease as is erythromycin. However, two good 50% water changes in two days should moderate some of the symptoms.

BTW, we recommend quarantine for our pet fish but use "feeder" fish from crowded tanks and uncertain pathology as food without quarantine for the same pet fish. Somehow, the logic escapes me.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright
Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2006 07:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
wayodust
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EditedEdited by wayodust
I do have a tank that I put my feeders in... at least for a few days... probably not long enough, but its better than nothing.

Right now they are in a 40, soon to be upgraded to a 75... but still about 4.5 inches... two oscars and a lace cat.
Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2006 08:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
wayodust
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What is the best oscar food I should buy that would provide the majority of nutrients, vitamins and minerals?
Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 00:48Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
Bob Wesolowski
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Hikari, TetraMin, New Life Spectrum and Ocean Nutrition make excellent foods for large omnivorous and carnivorous fish. Look for cichlid sticks and pellets. Some will come with beta carotene color enhancers.

Give your fish a treat with frozen foods such as beefheart, bloodworms and mysis shrimp. Do not feed any type of tubifex whether frozen or freeze dried. Brine shrimp have little nutritional value compared to the aforementioned frozen foods.



__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright
Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 01:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
wayodust
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I was reading you can supplement vitamins into the diet/water. How could I safely do this?
Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 03:29Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
Bob Wesolowski
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EditedEdited by Bob Wesolowski
Have you noticed a vitamin deficiency in your fish? Treat the food by soaking in the vitamins.

However, TetraMin, Hikari and the other manufacturers have made a balanced food that was based on extensive testing. Think of getting your daily multi-vitamin with your morning bowl of fish chow. In addition, their frozen foods are often irradiated to kill pathogens.

So, what are you thinking about dosing with vitamins and why are you going to dose with vitamins?





__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright
Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 14:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
wayodust
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I was just reading that the improper diet was caused by a lack of vitamins.
Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 03:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
Lindy
 
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EditedEdited by Lindy
Lack of vitamins is caused by an improper diet. Make sure you have a good variety of foods to offer and you wont need to give additional vitamins. (this all ties into HITH aswell) Look at brands such as ones Bob has suggested and your fish will be healthy.

You mention above that you do 25% water changes weekly, this would normally be satisactory, but you have some high waste producing fish in that tank. Have you ever checked the nitrAte levels of the tank? I mention this because you may not be changing enough water to reduce nitrate to a safer level for your fish given the stocking you have in there at the moment.



Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.
Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 05:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
longhairedgit
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EditedEdited by longhairedgit
The broader issues of hexamita can lead to a complicated treatment and outlook to its prevention. Causes of hexamita infection are generally to do with poor initial health , often caused by poor diet,certainly an immune system that is not getting the correct vitamin and enzymic support will not function effectively, but there are a myriad of other issues that can lead to hexamita infections. You cant assume (although it is good practise to make sure) that diet is the issue. For hexamita to enter a body all that is required is a mild case of immunosupression, and for the protozoa to be present in the water. This can be caused by the stresses of temperature changes, changing ph's, fright, external and internal parasites , ammonia , nitrite and nitrate peaks, wounds and dominant cagemates. Therefore the cure for hexamita should not be thought of as merely a case of throwing vitamins into the fish, but rather as a case for general tip top care, including , but not limited to just the diet. In pathology reports a huge number of hexamita infections are complicit with additional bacterial infections, one infection leads to another as it were. Protozoan infections are also more likely when the protozoans themselves are in high concentration, so keeping on top of water changes,keeping a spotless tank, the regular use of uv sterilisers etc will help keep numbers low.

If the actual causes of hexamita are not addressed, no amount of cures or vitamins will help, as reinfections may be constant and the parasite load too heavy for an immunosupressed fish to fight against. Purging the tank of protozoans with a treatment such as metronidazole, available in ingestible and water soluble forms, in addition to top notch care will give the fish the best chance. In peripheral cases a change of diet with added vitamins may promote the health of the fish, but when the sensory pores begin to generate pus and the characteristic holes begin to appear the infection is advancing,and its seriously worth considering meds, as not all fish can turn things around without help at this point. Vitamins are more preventative and supportive aid rather than actual cures and if the fish was otherwise well cared for and given an optimum diet and yet still acquired hexamita (this does often happen) then you have to be looking for a causative agent, most likely bacterial, that may be weakening the fish. A lot of fish like discus are also selectively bred with a limited genepool, and thusly their natural resistance to infection may be weakening multigenerationally, and this makes hexamita harder to treat in some individials than others.

Do not forget, that this is not purely a nutritional disorder, its a protozoan parasite, and the vulnerabilities that can render a fish susceptible are many. Diet is just one of the common causes of weakness and a lowered immune system, poor mucus integrity, immune cell response, renal efficiency etc.

Hexamita is also a fairly widespread infection, and because of this there will be different populations and different strains with differing potential for lethality, and differing speeds of progression , which to some degree may be temperature dependant. While vitamins may help cure one afflicted fish they may not help another. Time may simply run out for the afflicted fish unless the protozoans are purged.

By all means improve the diet where you can, but if it goes too far, and the fish becomes truly sick ,dont hesitate to reach for the meds. The prognosis for hexamita only follows a few visual cues, and the difference between times that fish take to die can be a few days or a few months. Id hate to be caught out waiting for a fish's immune system to improve via the provision of an improved diet, something that may take weeks, when it turns out the fish may only have a few days to live.There is, after all, no feasible way to tell how long the fish has left, and anyone who says they can tell is bs'ing you. Hexamita may have infected a fish weeks before the first visible symptom occurs, or visible signs may appear within days, theres no way of knowing. With hexamita the final approach to death may only be detectable a day or a few hours before the actual event. By then of course, its too late to medicate the fish successfully as the meds will have a negative impact on the fishs health, and you will be effectively finishing it off.

Im sure for the lucky ones a change of diet helps, but ive learned the hard way that sometimes even the best diet money can buy makes no difference, and i'll never be caught out again.Bitter experience is always the most profound teacher.
Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2006 06:52Profile MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
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