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In my 45 gal, I had a heater malfunction over nite, temp went from 78 up to 90. I fixed the problem, slowly lowered temp down to 80 over a few hours, but my female blood parrot ( only one affected) became covered in ich.

This has been going on for 4 days now, I am treating with Malachite blue ( spelling?)at 1/2 dose, and melafix. Temp is at 80.
its not getting any better, usually by now, i've got rid of it, the few times Ive had ich.( I mean its off of the fish...- OOPS)

Tankmates- 6 diamond tetra, 1 female krib, 1 pictus cat- all are fine.
no ammonia, no nitrite, 20 nitrate, ph 7.0

doing 20 % water changes between doses daily- and no carbon in filters...

she is extremely lethargic, breathing heavy, clamped fins, only comes out when I go near tank. Im feeding very litely, and she will eat.

Any ideas? suggestions?

Maybe you can put her in a separate tank... and slowly salt the water. If not maybe a quick saline dip? I found that ich reacts better to the meds if the temp is raised to about 82 and you slowly add salt to the water. Since you have a cat in the tank, I'm a little worried about adding salt to the home tank. Hope that helps.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

The ich life cycle can last longer, so you should be patient. The white cysts are unaffected by medication and will only go away once that part of the life cycle is complete.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

I'm sure she didnt take the temp fluctuations as well as the others. Actually that am I noticed something was wrong because of her labored breathing.....that was the first symptom with all of this.

Could the fact that she laid eggs a few days before the heater malfuction, have weakened her enough for the heater issue to stress her enough to cause the ich?? She was not amused when I took out her eggs.

I thought about moving her- but- Ive only got a 10 gal available- considering she is 5-6 in and very thick, I dont think its an option, That and she likes to rest in her cave which wont fit in the 10. ( a large flowerpot)

I'm trying to be patient, but honestly the only few ich outbreaks Ive had- the ich was only visable for 2 days. How long can this continue?? And is there anything else I can do?? And as stressed as she is- heavly breathing, hiding, just laying there all the time unless She sees me... Im really worried if she's gonna pul threw if this lasts much longer.

hca

White Spot can and is a huge problem if you do not understand it completely.
Many who do not understand only remove it for the first few days and this is totally useless. Or it is continually coming in via their water supply during the colder months (like mine does)

I strongly suggest you copy and print this out and keep it for feature reference.

Keith


WHITE SPOT ICH

White spot Parasite, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis

This disease is easy to recognise, as the skin of the infected fish becomes covered with white spots, each the size of a pinhead. Each spot represents the site of one, or sometimes two, parasites. All parts of the body gills, may be attacked.



The causative agent is named Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. It is a spherical and large by protozoan standards, measuring up to 1mm in diameter. Short, hair-like processes known as cilia are spread densely over the surface. A horseshoe-shape nucleus is also present which is clearly visible under the microscope.



By the means of the cilia the parasite rotates vigorously and burrows into the surface layer (epidermis) of its host. It feeds on skin cells and surface debris. The burrowing action causes a local irritation and the epidermis grows across the parasite to enclose it, thus forming a “White Spot”



Reproduction occurs away from the host. After maturing in the skin, which takes a few days to three weeks, depending on the temperature, the parasite bores out, swims away and comes to rest on a submerged object such as a stone, or plant. Here it forms a jelly-like cyst within which a series of rapid cell divisions take place. In a few hours, several hundred daughter cells or swarmers, are produced, which break out of the cyst to find a new host. Alighting on the skin, they burrow in to recommence the life cycle. If they fail to find a host within three to four days, they perish.



Symptoms

If the protozoan is introduced into a tank containing healthy fish, little harm may occur, other than a fleeting infection with a few parasites. If however, the fishes are already weakened for some other reason, e.g. lack of oxygen, the parasite will quickly cover the whole body surface, causing irritation and opening up wounds for secondary infections. The host mobility may become affected. In sever cases, death may result.



Prevention

If white-spot appears in an otherwise healthy tank, the parasite “must” have been introduced either as an adult on a newly acquired fish, or as the cyst form on, for example new stones, a plant or even added water. The only certain method of prevention, is to quarantine all new stock, including stones, plants etc; preferably in water at a temperature of 77F. Allow one week’s quarantine.



Treatments

There are too many treatments today to recommend any specific one. Many can be bought easily at aquarium outlets.





Several very interesting points to think about.



Very easy to recognise.

Its reproduction cycle.

No host they will die.

If introduced into a healthy tank little harm may occur.

Pay attention to all tank details.

Weakened fish, and lack of oxygen can/may and will cause sever deaths. All this is usually caused by poor tank maintenance and/or incorrect and faulty equipment.

Prevention is the best cure

A Parasite “must” be introduced into the tank.



This information was collected from Fresh Water Tropical Fish

Compiled by Keith

********************************************************************************************************************

TREATING A TANK and Scaleless fish



Clown Loaches and other scaleless fish require a special White Spot cure. I have seen it said that this is not so just use any WS cure at half strength and that will do. That is totally wrong even at that strength it will become dangerous.



Only use the "CORRECT" WS cure and only use it at the correct dosage as per instruction on the bottle. Also check the UBD "Expire Date" to be on the safe side.



Melafix can be used in conjunction with the WS cure it will not cure it at all but it will reduce the stress on the fish.



Now for the treatment.

Only used the prescribed amount and times recommended.

Remove any carbon filters if you are using them.

Add extra air this is beneficial to the tank as well.

Bump up the temp slowly. By doing this it speeds up the growth rate of the Ich and this kills it quicker.

Turn of the lights if you have a fully planted tank this will not hurt for a few days at all.

Reduce the feeding by 50% they wont feel like eating any way and you could easily have other problem with the uneaten food. I would feed them with small amounts of "Frozen Blood Worms" at least 3 time a week this will keep their strength up remember a healthy fish will survive the Ich problem a lot easier.



Treating the Tank

You might not see any WS after a week BUT it has not all gone and by this I mean the treatment must be continued for at at least a total of 3-4 weeks. This might sound a long time but it will be worth it.



I would still carry out your weekly water changes and when you have completed the tank treatment a 50% of treated water change would help for the next two changes.



Then you can replace or add a carbon filter for at least 2 weeks and toss it out completely.



I have had WS with my CLs and they as well as all fish worth the extra time and effort in removing the Ich.



Finally take all the precautions and try not to get it again



***********************************************************************************

Calilasseia

POSTED BY Calilasseia



Posted 24-Nov-2006 01:48

The key facts to remember about White Spot (and I'm sure Keith has covered these, but I'll repeat them just in case) are:[1] Only one part of the life cycle of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, the causative parasite, is susceptible to medication, which means that ...[2] Medication has to be applied even when the symptoms appear to have gone for up to 7 days afterwards, to make sure that all the susceptible stages of the parasite have been eliminated. The parasite in question has a three stage life cycle. The part that manifests itself is the trophont or feeding stage. This stage burrows through the fish's slime coat, attaches itself to the outer layer of tissue or epithelium, and starts feeding upon the fish. This stage is impervious to medication because it forms a protective cyst around itself. The next stage is the tomont stage. This forms when the parasite has ingested sufficient nutrients from the fish to begin reproduction. This stage is largely invisible in the aquarium, because it detaches from the fish, falls into the substrate, and remains encysted while it divides into daughter cells - something like 1,000 daughter cells for each month. Because it is encysted, it is impervious to medication again. The third stage is the larval otomite stage. Each daughter cell becomes a free swimming tomite, which is microscopic and invisible to the eye. At this point in the life cycle, the parasite is vulnerable to medication. The trouble is, of course, that the swarming termites are microscopic, and so you can't actually see them directly with the naked eye, which means you have to keep medication levels in the aquarium maintained at sufficient concentration to kill the tomites for as long as they are likely to persist. Depending upon temperature, the tomites could mutate into mature trophonts in as little as 3 days or take as long as 7 days. In an aquarium that contains solely Labyrinth Fishes, one means of dealing with the parasite is to increase the ambient aquarium temperature to 85 degrees Fahrenheit during the medication stage. This speeds up the parasite's life cycle, and ensures that the medication can destroy all the free-swimming microscopic tomites before they have a chance to attach themselves to a fish and begin the cycle anew. With NON Labyrinth Fishes, however, this could induce unwanted additional respiratory stresses - Labyrinth Fishes can cope with this because they are able to breathe atmospheric air to compensate for the lower concentration of dissolved oxygen at higher water temperatures, but fishes that rely exclusively upon gill-based respiration cannot do this. Some fishes such as Clown Loaches can be subjected to elevated temperatures as they experience these in the wild periodically, but it's not a good idea to do this with certain other fishes - Panda Corys spring to mind as one species that should NOT be subject to temperatures above 80 degrees F because they're inhabitants of cooler waters in their native Peru, and will die of heat stress if 'cooked' in this manner. So, depending upon ambient temperature, the tomites will appear in as little as 3 days, or you could be unfortunate and the tomites could take 7 days to appear. In cooler aquaria (e.g., a Panda Cory aquarium kept at 72 degrees F) you could be required to maintain medication for up to 14 days. If the fishes can be moved to a hospital tank for treatment, and medicated there, this is preferable because you don't have to subject your main aquarium's biological filter to adverse effects from the medication - you can just destroy the parasites there. Removing the fishes from the main aquarium also has the advantage that any free swimming tomites that arise in the main aquarium are left with no hosts to attach to, and thus starve to death. So, at the end of your medication period in the hospital aquarium, you are free to return the fishes to the main aquarium. Of course, your problem here is that you have to remember to add a small quantity of fish food to the main aquarium as if you were still feeding fishes so that the biological filter in the main aquarium is kept ticking over whilst the fishes themselves are temporarily rehoused. Once the fishes have been removed from the main aquarium, by the way, you can speed things up visa-vis destroying remaining parasites by increasing the temperature to 105 degrees F while the fishes are absent, which will speed up the life cycle considerably, and result in the accelerated production of tomites ... which then find themselves bereft of fishes to attach to. And, they starve to death quicker at the higher temperatures, because they use up their reserves more quickly. Get yourself a cheap plastic aquarium that you're never going to use as anything BUT a hospital tank, put your fishes in that, medicate them, then whack up the main aquarium temperature to 105 degrees while the fishes are in the 'hospital'. Once the fishes are free of parasites and have remained so for 7 days, you can return the main aquarium to its normal temperature and reintroduce the now treated fishes. Any watertight container that is safe to house fishes in (i.e., it hasn't ever been used to mix weedkiller or insecticide, and doesn't leach toxic material into the water) can be pressed into service as the 'hospital' for the duration, so long as it is possible to maintain aeration and some basic filtration (e.g., sponge filter) within the container during the medication phase. Oh, and DO NOT use activated carbon filtration or ion exchange resins in the hospital aquarium because that will remove your medication! EDIT : Almost forgot. I use Protozin. Protozin is somewhat expensive, but it is claimed by the makers to be formulated so as to impact as little as possible upon filter bacteria. And, upon the occasions I have had to use it, it works well



Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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I understand that ich doesnt just go away, and that its basically a month's time to be sure your "rid" of it. I've rarely had an outbreak, and just have never seen it visable on a fish this long.

With her labored breathing- is it safe to raise the temp,over 80?? to speed this up, or will 80 suffice?

Whats the longest time it will be visible on her? She isnt getting any worse, but isnt getting any better either.But I guess no worse- is a good sign.

Unfortunately Ive grown VERY attached, she is very much like a black lab puppy in personality- and To be honest- Im worried sick.

hca

I hate to repeat myself but here is the answer

Reproduction occurs away from the host. After maturing in the skin, which takes a few days to three weeks, depending on the temperature, the parasite bores out, swims away and comes to rest on a submerged object such as a stone, or plant. Here it forms a jelly-like cyst within which a series of rapid cell divisions take place. In a few hours, several hundred daughter cells or swarmers, are produced, which break out of the cyst to find a new host. Alighting on the skin, they burrow in to recommence the life cycle. If they fail to find a host within three to four days, they perish.

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Sorry if I missed something here but that half dose treatment is bothering me.

If you're doing it because of the pictus, try getting one of the 'safe for loaches' medications, not sure what's out in america these days, but I know there are plenty of meds out there. Ich is one of those things you have to attack head on full scale no half measures.

Ich can get stronger. I know when I had it I read plenty of articles. Seems raising the temp to 90 once worked, but these days if you're treating just with temp (Not Recommended!) you have to raise it to 100 simply because Ich was able to adapt, just like all these superbugs out there these days. If you've done a full treatment cycle but only at half dose some of these may be ones that weren't killed and are now stronger.


Increased temp only speeds up the life cycle, remember it's only when they drop off that they can be killed by the medications.



Adding the melafix, I've never really had much success treating anything with melafix. If you're starting a second round of treatment I'd suggest a bacteria booster with the water change. Also run an airstone with the raised water temperature to help agitate the surface to increase oxygen exchange into the water. That can help with the labored breathing. If you don't have an airstone raise up the level of the filter inflow to the tank so it splashes the surface more, even a little change can help.


Additionally, check carefully to make sure they're actually raised bumps, some of what you might be seeing could be scars, I've heard of some fish getting scars from Ich similar to chicken pox scars in humans (never seen it for myself though so don't know how common it is).

Hope that was coherent enough, pain killers are kicking in


^_^

I have used Rid-Ich+ before with success. I have Kuhli loaches and at the time of treatment some Corys. I only raised the temp between 80-82deg just to speed up the cycle of ich. I hope this helps, good luck.

I started tx with what I had on hand, which said not safe for the pictus. The nearest store to pick up any meds is 40 min away. I usually don't have many problems, and keep minimal meds on hand- usually pimafix and melafix. I picked up this ich med just incase, BEFORE i had the pictus...So thats why on the 1/2 dose.

The melafix. I've read it helps with the stress from dealing with the ich infection.

I have since went and got one safe for everyone, and will start TX with that tomorrow. Ive gone 2 full rounds now of the first...I am doing a 50% water change in the am, then dosing.

I added an airstone And lowered water a bit to increase O2 almost immediately once I fixed the temp problem that started this. It is still this way.

I have been following dosages and water changes as per directions.. only at a 1/2 dose because of pictus

Today breathing is better, she is more active, and not as many spots- so the ich is starting to be free floating.

I'm sure it is ich, not scars, she looks like I rolled her in a sugar , about 50% of her was covered. Today it looks more like 35-40%.

I havent seen any spots on anyone else. But I cant be 100% sure about the diamond tetras- given their coloring, and the fact they dont hold still in front of the glass for inspection like the others.Im 95% sure the diamonds are fine. Its just the BP affected.

I understand about the painkillers.. Bad knees and cold winters don't mix.... I think they had kicked in the fisrt time I read keiths post...

Sounds like you are on the right track then, but you're right I've never known ich to stick around for so long, any chance that bottle you first started using was expired? Or close to expiration? Could have even been stored improperly at the store (too hot, too cold, that sort of thing) making it go off and not as effective.

Melafix usually doesn't hurt, we've added it from time to time, just wanted to make sure you weren't using it as a treatment in itself. I've seen people do that before !


Keep doing what you're doing. Rather then the 50% change all at once, any chance to do 25% tonight then another 25% in the morning? Be sure you're really digging down with that gravel vac and covering as much surface as you can, get as many as the free floaters as you can. If you do have cycle or another bacteria booster around now would be a good time to use it.

Sounds like you're seeing some progress, hopefully this next dose will get it all.


^_^

Yeah, i can do 25 tonight and 25 in the am...

Im hope this next time gets it. It seems to be going on forever...

And yeah Ive got some cycle to throw in too..

Thanks Babel, Holly

An update and NEW question

Up date- as of today- all ich is off her- behavior is back to 100% normal, I'm following another 3 day tx to hopefully get whatever is free floating, tank had 2 very deep cleanings with the water changes.

BUT- Question

where she had the largest concentrations of ich, she is now very very washed out in color. where is normally deep orange- is almost a flesh color, where is normally deep black- is a very very light grey. It doesnt look like a fungus, or even slime... just patches that are VERY pale.
ANY IDEAS???
Could this be the scarring talked about earlier?? OR is this something else?? I'll be keeping a close eye on it, But if this was another type of infection, I doubt she would be acting and behaving like her old self. correct??

I've just never seen anything like this, and I'm curious as to what it is, and why.