AquaRank.com

FishProfiles.com Message Forums

faq | etiquette | register | my account | search | mailbox
# FishProfiles.com Message Forums
L# General
 L# The Hospital
  L# Ich?
   L# Pages: 1, 2
 Post Reply  New Topic
SubscribeIch?
Rookie_Boy1
-----
Hobbyist
Posts: 53
Kudos: 27
Votes: 0
Registered: 14-Apr-2007
I have a 29g with guppies, platies, neons, glowlights, cories, khuli loaches, a single BN and 1 german ram.
Some of the platies, especially the smaller male have white spots on their body, it's mostly on the edge of their fins, some of the platies look like they've had tiny metal stapels stapelled into their sides. The white spots have spread to some of the guppies, mainly the old ones and females. One of the female guppies seems like they've had a bite taken out of their tail, the area around it has turned white.
What is it?/What could it be?
I've had ich before in this tank.
How do I treat It?
Thanks In advance.
R_Boy1
Post InfoPosted 11-Jul-2007 20:20Profile PM Edit Report 
keithgh
 
---------------
---------------
*Ultimate Fish Guru*
Posts: 6371
Kudos: 6918
Votes: 1542
Registered: 26-Apr-2003
male australia au-victoria
Here is some info about Ich it will help you

As far as Meds Having Khuli Loaches and Neons I would strongly recommended getting a Ich Med that is suitable for scaleless fish and read thec instructions extremly carefully.
If you have any further concerns please ask more questions as this is the only way we can help you.

Your location might help some one then might be able to suggest a good brand name to use.

I would also treat the fish with Melafix and Pimafix.


WHITE SPOT ICH

“White-spot” Parasite, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis

This disease is easy to recognise, as the skin of the infected fish becomes covered with white spots, each the size of a pinhead. Each spot represents the site of one, or sometimes two, parasites. All parts of the body gills, may be attacked.

The causative agent is named Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. It is a spherical and large by protozoan standards, measuring up to 1mm in diameter. Short, hair-like processes known as cilia are spread densely over the surface. A horseshoe-shape nucleus is also present which is clearly visible under the microscope.

By the means of the cilia the parasite rotates vigorously and burrows into the surface layer (epidermis) of its host. It feeds on skin cells and surface debris. The burrowing action causes a local irritation and the epidermis grows across the parasite to enclose it, thus forming a “White Spot”

Reproduction occurs away from the host. After maturing in the skin, which takes a few days to three weeks, depending on the temperature, the parasite bores out, swims away and comes to rest on a submerged object such as a stone, or plant. Here it forms a jelly-like cyst within which a series of rapid cell divisions take place. In a few hours, several hundred daughter cells or swarmers, are produced, which break out of the cyst to find a new host. Alighting on the skin, they burrow in to recommence the life cycle. If they fail to find a host within three to four days, they perish.

Symptoms
If the protozoan is introduced into a tank containing healthy fish, little harm may occur, other than a fleeting infection with a few parasites. If however, the fishes are already weakened for some other reason, e.g. lack of oxygen, the parasite will quickly cover the whole body surface, causing irritation and opening up wounds for secondary infections. The host mobility may become affected. In sever cases, death may result.

Prevention
If white-spot appears in an otherwise healthy tank, the parasite “must” have been introduced either as an adult on a newly acquired fish, or as the cyst form on, for example new stones, a plant or even added water. The only certain method of prevention, is to quarantine all new stock, including stones, plants etc; preferably in water at a temperature of 77F. Allow one week’s quarantine.

Treatments
There are too many treatments today to recommend any specific one. Many can be bought easily at aquarium outlets.


Several very interesting points to think about.

Very easy to recognise.
Its reproduction cycle.
No host they will die.
If introduced into a healthy tank little harm may occur.
Pay attention to all tank details.
Weakened fish, and lack of oxygen can/may and will cause sever deaths. All this is usually caused by poor tank maintenance and/or incorrect and faulty equipment.
Prevention is the best cure
A Parasite “must” be introduced into the tank.

This information was collected from Fresh Water Tropical Fish

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW
Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2007 02:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
---------------
---------------
*Ultimate Fish Guru*
Posts: 6371
Kudos: 6918
Votes: 1542
Registered: 26-Apr-2003
male australia au-victoria
Here is ome more info that was posted (see below) Sorry I did not save the Members name.

The key facts to remember about White Spot (and I'm sure Keith has covered these, but I'll repeat them just in case) are:[1] Only one part of the life cycle of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, the causative parasite, is usceptible to medication, which means that ...[2] Medication has to be applied even when the symptoms appear to have gone for up to 7 days afterwards, to make sure that all the susceptible stages of the parasite have been eliminated.The parasite in question has a three stage life cycle. The part that manifests itself is the trophont or feeding stage. This stage burrows through the fish's slime coat, attaches itself to the outer layer of tissue or epithelium, and starts feeding upon the fish. This stage is impervious to medication because it forms a protective cyst around itself.The next stage is the tomont stage. This forms when the parasite has ingested sufficient nutrients from the fish to begin reproduction. This stage is largely invisible in the aquarium, because it detaches from the fish, falls into the substrate, and remains encysted while it divides into daughter cells - something like 1,000 daughter cells for each tomont. Because it is encysted, it is impervious to medication again.The third stage is the larval or tomite stage. Each daughter cell becomes a free swimming tomite, which is microscopic and invisible to the eye. At this point in the life cycle, the parasite is vulnerable to medication. The trouble is, of course, that the swarming tomites are microscopic, and so you can't actually see them directly with the naked eye, which means you have to keep medication levels in the aquarium maintained at sufficient concentration to kill the tomites for as long as they are likely to persist. Depending upon temperature, the tomites could mutate into mature trophonts in as little as 3 days or take as long as 7 days.In an aquarium that contains solely Labyrinth Fishes, one means of dealing with the parasite is to increase the ambient aquarium temperature to 85 degrees Fahrenheit during the medication stage. This speeds up the parasite's life cycle, and ensures that the medication can destroy all the free-swimming microscopic tomites before they have a chance to attach themselves to a fish and begin the cycle anew. With NON Labyrinth Fishes, however, this could induce unwanted additional respiratory stresses - Labyrinth Fishes can cope with this because they are able to breathe atmospheric air to compensate for the lower concentration of dissolved oxygen at higher water temperatures, but fishes that rely exclusively upon gill-based respiration cannot do this. Some fishes such as Clown Loaches can be subjected to elevated temperatures as they experience these in the wild periodically, but it's not a good idea to do this with certain other fishes - Panda Corys spring to mind as one species that should NOT be subject to temperatures above 80 degrees F because they're inhabitants of cooler waters in their native Peru, and will die of heat stress if 'cooked' in this manner.So, depending upon ambient temperature, the tomites will appear in as little as 3 days, or you could be unfortunate and the tomites could take 7 days to appear. In cooler aquaria (e.g., a Panda Cory aquarium kept at 72 degrees F) you could be required to maintain medication for up to 14 days.If the fishes can be moved to a hospital tank for treatment, and medicated there, this is preferable because you don't have to subject your main aquarium's biological filter to adverse effects from the medication - you can just destroy the parasites there. Removing the fishes from the main aquarium also has the advantage that any free swimming tomites that arise in the main aquarium are left with no hosts to attach to, and thus starve to death. So, at the end of your medication period in the hospital aquarium, you are free to return the fishes to the main aquarium. Of course, your problem here is that you have to remember to add a small quantity of fish food to the main aquarium as if you were still feeding fishes so that the biological filter in the main aquarium is kept ticking over whilst the fishes themselves are temporarily rehoused. Once the fishes have been removed from the main aquarium, by the way, you can speed things up vis-a-vis destroying remaining parasites by increasing the temperature to 105 degrees F while the fishes are absent, which will speed up the life cycle considerably, and result in the accelerated production of tomites ... which then find themselves bereft of fishes to attach to. And, they starve to death quicker at the higher temperatures, because they use up their reserves more quickly.Get yourself a cheap plastic aquarium that you're never going to use as anything BUT a hospital tank, put your fishes in that, medicate them, then whack up the main aquarium temperature to 105 degrees while the fishes are in the 'hospital'. Once the fishes are free of parasites and have remained so for 7 days, you can return the main aquarium to its normal temperature and reintroduce the now treated fishes. Any watertight container that is safe to house fishes in (i.e., it hasn't ever been used to mix weedkiller or insecticide, and doesn't leach toxic material into the water) can be pressed into service as the 'hospital' for the duration, so long as it is possible to maintain aeration and some basic filtration (e.g., sponge filter) within the container during the medication phase.Oh, and DO NOT use activated carbon filtration or ion exchange resins in the hospital aquarium because that will remove your medication!EDIT : Almost forgot. I use Protozin. Protozin is somewhat expensive, but it is claimed by the makers to be formulated so as to impact as little as possible upon filter bacteria. And, upon the occasions I have had to use it, it works well.

Posted 24-Nov-2006 01:48

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW
Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2007 03:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Calilasseia
 
---------------
-----
*Ultimate Fish Guru*
Panda Funster
Posts: 5496
Kudos: 2828
Votes: 731
Registered: 10-Feb-2003
male uk
That was something I posted a while back Keith. Good of you to remember it in full though! Every little helps when helping a newcomer beat the dreaded White Spot

Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002
Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2007 05:35Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
---------------
---------------
*Ultimate Fish Guru*
Posts: 6371
Kudos: 6918
Votes: 1542
Registered: 26-Apr-2003
male australia au-victoria
I might not have the best eye sight but MR Copy and Paste are very goods friends of mine especially here.

I try to copy the good info in my Word Doc Fish Profiles you never know when it will help. Looking for some info in search can be rather difficult for new members.
Thank you.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW
Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2007 08:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Calilasseia
 
---------------
-----
*Ultimate Fish Guru*
Panda Funster
Posts: 5496
Kudos: 2828
Votes: 731
Registered: 10-Feb-2003
male uk
Ah, you maintain independent archives.

A very good idea.


Panda Catfish fan and keeper/breeder since Christmas 2002
Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2007 17:30Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Rookie_Boy1
-----
Hobbyist
Posts: 53
Kudos: 27
Votes: 0
Registered: 14-Apr-2007
Okay,
so melafix and pimafax?
Okay,, thanks you lot.
R_Boy1
Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2007 21:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
---------------
---------------
*Ultimate Fish Guru*
Posts: 6371
Kudos: 6918
Votes: 1542
Registered: 26-Apr-2003
male australia au-victoria
I dont know where you are but it would not hurt to store your prepared water for one week other wise all you are doing is reinfecting you tank each time you do a water change, that is if is coming through your tap water.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW
Post InfoPosted 13-Jul-2007 03:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Rookie_Boy1
-----
Hobbyist
Posts: 53
Kudos: 27
Votes: 0
Registered: 14-Apr-2007
EditedEdited by Rookie_Boy1
Oh I forgot to say where I am, I'm in the uk.
I don't think that it is coming through the tap water, I think it developed from stress, because you see, I have multiple female platies but with two males. the two males fight quite often, I've put the larger male in a plastic breeder box because He attacks the smaller male, I have two red platies, the smaller male is one. the red female is the other 1. The larger dalamtion platy chases the smaller red male every occasion it can do so. It chases and "Pecks" the female occasionally. It also chases the small red platy fry I have living in the tank, all the other fish leave the fry alone. The small red male platy was the first one I saw with these white spots.
Off to the LFS this weekend to buy some melafix & pimafax.
I wish the male platies would get on fine like male guppies do. ARGH!!
I didn't know Ich could spread through tap water! wow, you really do learn something new everyday!
annddddd... what does a hydra look like?
could somebody post a picture? I think I have 1 in my tank, it is attached to a vallisnernia (sp) plant I have in the tank.
Post InfoPosted 13-Jul-2007 08:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
**********
---------------
---------------
Moderator
Posts: 5108
Kudos: 5263
Votes: 1690
Registered: 28-Dec-2002
male usa us-colorado
Hi,
Most consider them pests and a result of poor conditions
in an aquarium.

http://members.optushome.com.au/chelmon/Hydra.htm

http://northern.edu/natsource/INVERT1/Hydra1.htm

http://pets.webshots.com/photo/1008616004017366583ngulSIYnSn

Hope this helps...
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 13-Jul-2007 10:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Rookie_Boy1
-----
Hobbyist
Posts: 53
Kudos: 27
Votes: 0
Registered: 14-Apr-2007
Hi guys.
The "Hydra" has gone. can hydras move around or do they stay in a fixed position until they die?
thanks guys.
R_Boy1
Post InfoPosted 13-Jul-2007 20:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Rookie_Boy1
-----
Hobbyist
Posts: 53
Kudos: 27
Votes: 0
Registered: 14-Apr-2007
EditedEdited by Rookie_Boy1
Hello!? is there anybody there?
I was thinking, that it could have been the water's quality which could have stressed fish thus them getting ich.
I tested the water,
the prameters are;
Nitrites - 0.3
nitrates - 110
Ammonia - 0.6
is that okay?
Thanks guys.

R_Boy1
Post InfoPosted 15-Jul-2007 18:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
---------------
---------------
*Ultimate Fish Guru*
Posts: 6371
Kudos: 6918
Votes: 1542
Registered: 26-Apr-2003
male australia au-victoria
If I am correct Ich has to be introduced into a tank and it can be by several methods, water, plants, unclean house practices, and new fish. To help it never becoming a problem precaution is the best medicine.

Certainly if you only have a small outbreak stressd out fish will be the the first to go down with it.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW
Post InfoPosted 16-Jul-2007 05:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
ScottF
********
---------------
Fish Addict
Addiction Hurts!!
Posts: 542
Kudos: 330
Votes: 355
Registered: 28-May-2007
male usa
rookie-

your really want to get your nitrites and ammonia down to 0ppm each. It looks like you have a little mini-cycle going there. Did you do a major WC, or gravel cleaning? Did you introduce several new fish at once, upsetting the bio load on the filter? Those sort of things could lead to a mini-cycle.

The fish do seem to be more susceptible to getting Ich when they are stressed, and cycling or water parameters that are off will stress them...

That has definitely been a problem for me!

Good luck, give us an update!
Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2007 01:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Joe Potato
 
**********
---------------
-----
Fish Addict
Kind of a Big Deal
Posts: 869
Votes: 309
Registered: 09-Jan-2001
male usa us-northcarolina

The "Hydra" has gone. can hydras move around or do they stay in a fixed position until they die?


Hydra usually stay pretty sessile, but they can and will move around if it is in their best interest.

Joe Potato
Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2007 01:48Profile Homepage AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
Rookie_Boy1
-----
Hobbyist
Posts: 53
Kudos: 27
Votes: 0
Registered: 14-Apr-2007
Okay guys,
Yes I did a major water change & gravel vacuum along with adding 4 new fish 3 days ago.
One of the glowlights disapearred a week ago, I guess the body's decompostion helped the ammonia/nitrites rise.
Thanks.
Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2007 08:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
ScottF
********
---------------
Fish Addict
Addiction Hurts!!
Posts: 542
Kudos: 330
Votes: 355
Registered: 28-May-2007
male usa
I dont know about the decomposition thing but I am sure you probably removed a bunch of bacteria by cleaning the gravel and doing a large WC in conjunction with a new heavey bio load on the filter. There's where your cycle (spike in amm/nitrites) came from.
Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2007 14:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
ScottF
********
---------------
Fish Addict
Addiction Hurts!!
Posts: 542
Kudos: 330
Votes: 355
Registered: 28-May-2007
male usa
Here's another good article I found regarding Ich:

http://www.aquatic-hobbyist.com/profiles/disease/freshwater/ich.html


How is it going with your Ich? Are you still seieng white spots?
Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2007 03:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Rookie_Boy1
-----
Hobbyist
Posts: 53
Kudos: 27
Votes: 0
Registered: 14-Apr-2007
Thanks scottF.
most of the fish have lost their spots, but there is one fish with white spots that won't go away. The spots become more noticeable when the male platies are out and about.

Post InfoPosted 22-Jul-2007 16:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
keithgh
 
---------------
---------------
*Ultimate Fish Guru*
Posts: 6371
Kudos: 6918
Votes: 1542
Registered: 26-Apr-2003
male australia au-victoria
Can you tell us exactly what treatment (brand name) you are using and its strength. You should not be adding any fish at all until the tank is fully cleaned of Ich this could easly take another month.
What temp is the tank?
Are you storing and treating the water before you do a water change?
Also are you using Melafix at all if not I would highly recommend it?

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW
Post InfoPosted 23-Jul-2007 03:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
# Pages: 1, 2
Post Reply  New Topic
Jump to: 

The views expressed on this page are the implied opinions of their respective authors.
Under no circumstances do the comments on this page represent the opinions of the staff of FishProfiles.com.

FishProfiles.com Forums, version 11.0
Mazeguy Smilies