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Tank: 50 US gallons (100cm L. x 40cm W. x 50cm H.) Heavily planted. Driftwood and Structure rock. Cedar wood hood with glass divider (1.8WPG) with cooling fans on back. 200W Guardian Penn-Plax Submersible heater.

Filtration: UGF with 200gph powerhead on one tower and airstone with AC on the other tower. HOB Tetra Whisper power filter for 40 gallons.

Bacteria media: 4" of Freshwater Aquarium Gravel (0.5-1.5cm), Geo Systems flake-like substrate, Power Filter media with AC and ceramics in bag.

Water Parameters: PH:8, NH4:0 MG/L, NO2:<0.25MG/L, NO3: 5-10MG/L, GH: 6.5, KH:7 TEMPERATURE: 25 Celsius

Additives: 25-50% WC's were done about once a week or once every 9 days, using Tetra Aquasafe to condition water and Jungle Start Zyme(bacteria) was added in the amount indicated by manufacturer for 50 gallons.

Fertilizers: 5 disolved tablets of Plant tabs from Aquarium Pharmaceuticals. 50 ml of Tetra Flora Pride. Dosage is replaced upon water change at 50% of full dosage.

Feeding: Fed twice daily. Morning-Tetra Menu Flakes, including shrimp, cereal, potato, and algae. All mixed together. Most of the food gets eaten for exeption of those that fall to the bottom to fast and are missed by the tetras. Evening-Alternating between freeze dried bloodworms, Microcrab granules, Colorbit granules, Babyshrimp(gammarus) all are from Tetra brand. Every 3 or 4 days they will get a tablet of tetra min for bottom feeders or 3 or 4 algae waffers for bottom feeders. Ocassionally they will get fed nauplii of brine shrimp or nori (algae) for the loricaridae members.

Stocking:
-5 Marble Hatchetfish (1.5" )
-5 Red Phantom Tetras (1-1.5" )
-4 Cardinal Tetras (1.5 " )
-2 Whiptail Catfish (5 " )
-1 Twig Catfish (6" )
-1 Hoplos Catfish (5" )

Cycle status: Cycle was started around January 20th, and should be fully cycled since it was seeded with bacteria and media filter from another tank. And to my understanding the N readings should support cycle being complete.

Visible Symptoms: It began with a white thread-like tuft on the tip of the lower lip of a Red phantom tetra, the base of which seemed to be more of a grayish color. Did a NO3 test and reading was of 50+MG/L, water was changed. He was removed to be placed in a hospital tank where he was given food prior to being medicated, he did not feed. He was treated for 3 days with a mixture of erithromizine and sulfa, he had no response to the medication. During this time symptoms showed up in the rest of the population of the 50 gallon, started with a whitish thread like tuft on tip of bottom lip on the rp and cardinal tetras and may be showing whitish marks on tips of pectoral and anal fins. Hoplos tip of longest whisker is whitish colored and seems to be eaten away by the infection. Tip of farlowella's nose shows same tuft. Last to show any signs of infection were marble hatchets, and only one seems to be affected on its bottom lip with same tuft. 50 gallon was medicated with Metronidazole with no effect on visual infection. Behaviour seems to be somewhat normal, even though they sometimes act very shy and recede to the back of the tank hidding in the different structure in the evening, they seem very active in the mornings and during most of the day, schooling and feeding very actively close to the surface.

If you have any experience on this matter I would appreciatte your expertise and suggestions.

It is important to first determine the sickness and then procede with medication. If you have any suggested treatment that has given you good results and you have a suggested prescription, I would be very thankfull.

Also if you need any more information to determine a diagnosis, I will reply to your query immeadeately.

What could cause this infection so I can avoid it in the future?

I thank you on the behalf of my fish and myself and thank you in advance for any help and guidance you can provide.

James

Now THAT is one hell of a good post! In fact that should be kept like an old 100% score exam paper for the benefit of other students! The only way it could have been any better is if it had a macro shot of the infection! It has conditions, progression, the lot.

Consequently I would say yes, it probably is columnaris, the only other really feasable possibility is that it could also be your basic fungus and finrot. I have treated simultaeniously for both with no terrible impact on the fish plenty of times, because one infection often lets the other in. My personal choice of med to beat columnaris would be protozin.

You will not be getting the full benefit of the meds you are currently using because your filter uses activated carbon, and this will be sucking up and absorbing the meds all the time. The intended toxicity of the meds will be being neutralised by the carbon . Try changing the carbon for regular mechanical filter substrate like foam or filter wool during the treatment period, just so you have some filtration going on instead of just the carbon being removed, although it can still be done that way if you really want to. Keep the nitrates below 40 ppm if you can, and you can add a resin denitrating bag if you like , as this should bind some nitrate without affecting the meds in a time of compromised filtration.

Good luck , and I hope this info helps.

Once again I feel compelled to say - truly excellent post

Thank you longhairedgit for your prompt suggestions as well as for your praises on the post.

I've yet to master the available digital camera that I use and thus have not yet posted any pictures, hope I will be able to indulge you some time soon.

Our assessment concurs and thus I've tried to tackle the bacteria with the antibiotics afore mentioned and the possibility of fungus with metronidazole. I will search around LFS's for Protozin as you suggested. I've also been looking for penicillin or terramycin since some catfish breeders have had good results with those medications. My limitation being that only certain meds are allowed into the country (Costa Rica), for instance the only form of terramycin that comes in is cream or paste and it's used to treat eye infections like red-eye or conjuntivitis. I'll persevere, surely I'll find something, sometime, somewhere... and the more options I have will improve my odds of finding a medication.

Hoping not to diminish the quality of the post, I missed to mention that the AC is taken out of the filters during medication, leaving only the sponge or foam in its place.

I'll follow your suggestion on using a denitrating agent in order to keep NO3 down, it seems to rise very fast in this tank. I had stayed away from it previously since I didn't know how safe it was to use it.

Thank you so much for being so helpfull and for the complements made to the post.

In your debt,

James

maybe the reason the fish are fleeing from sight is stress. the high nitrates are very stressful. i myself have many hospitabalized fish because of stress caused diseases


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Ah yeah, costa rica cannot be the easiest place (or the cheapest) to find a good selection of antibiotics suitable for fish. Id be surprised if you can get protozin at anything even approaching a reasonable price, and frankly terramycin can be harsh to the point of lethal, it requires that the aquarium be scrupulously clean before adding it to the water, and it certainly can cause bacterial death in filters. Lots of people in the past have used it only to find their fish choking in a cloudy tank short on oxygen and full of dead aerobic bacteria.

If it is to be used then the dosages have to be very closely observed and you must be as prepared as possible just in case it takes out the filter bacteria and forces the tank into another cycle.

Im not that familiar with your situation in costa rica (well other than the fact that you have some of the most amazing fauna on planet earth!)so im not sure how much cash you have to go online ordering meds or if indeed some places can deliver where you are, but if you have regular net access and a credit card you can certainly open your options up, the problem of course is the time factor. Columnaris can kill quickly, sometimes in as little time as a week so if you are going to order meds online, get to it asap.

A suitable med you might be able to find locally (ish) to you is Maracyn,it may damage the filter a little, but nothing like as badly as tetracycline or terramycin.Other copper based treatments can work too. Failing that try the ESHA brand medicines for columnaris and bacterial infections.

Esha 2000 pretty much kills anything to do with fungus and finrot effectively be it fungal or bacterial in origin, and ive used it several times with what can only be described as complete success.I find their dropper method extremely effective for administering exactly the dose you want.Esha products should be available throughout south america, and work powerfully and safetly. Heres a link to the product site http://www.eshalabs.com/index.htm

Heres a quick link so you can take a look at maracyn, oddly enough available from Amazon. (wouldnt it be ironic if they couldnt deliver to south america ? lol)

http://www.amazon.com/Maracyn-Mardel-Labs-tabs-Freshwater/dp/B0009YSE8M

Good luck Jim!

Thank you again for both your posts, it does seem that the nitrate spike was probably what set off stress in the fish and caused the bacteria to manifest itself.

Here's an update on the situation:

After searching far and wide, I found no Protozin, no ESHA products and no Maracyn for fungal or bacterial infections (did find one called maracyn 2).

Upon such results I chose to run a methodic treatment using what was available in this case Oxytetracyclene, Erithromyzine and Sulfa.

I have 4 dwarf gouramis in a 20 gallon hospital tank that were recovering, they started showing signs of columnaris as well, so I treated the 20 gallon with Oxytetracyclene and Sulfa with a dosage of 2 caplets of each (1 per 10gallons) changing 50% of the water and dosing again after each 48 hours.

I treated the 50 gallon tank with Erithromyzine and Sulfa in due dosages. (5 pills of each, 1 for every 10 gallons) and WC'ed 50% after 48 hours and repeated treatment.

After the second dosage the difference is not big, there has been some reduction of the tuft on the bottom lip but it is still visible. There was some white color development on the tips of the pectoral and anal fins of the red phantom tetras and this coloration was not diminished greatly by the medication. The farlowella showed certain improvement on its snout's tip white tuft, which is almost not visible anymore.

Am I dosing in the right amounts and timelines? How long should the treatment last? If not so, what procedure should I follow and for how long?

It would also seem that the oxytetracyclene has been more effective than the erithromyzene but it is too early to be definite about this assessment since fish in both tanks still show signs of disease.

On a different note the fish seem to be unpreocuppied about the affliction and if you would judge only from their behaviour and coloration you would not be able to tell that they were sick. The RP tetras are very red and active and school together with the cardinal tetras whose red underside is very well tainted. Marble hatchets play along the current in their typical tight formation. They are feeding very actively and with good apettite 2 times a day. Farlowella, a good indicator fish, has kept his different shades and has not fallen into the typical grey color that they exhibit when stressed or sick. Instead it is active and feeding all over the tank.

At this point I am very confused on how to procede in treating this disease so any suggestions would be welcome...

Thanks for all your help,

James

Columnaris despite being a very vigourous infection is structurally easily destroyed. I do feel a bit of sympathy for you at this point becau your kind of stuck with methods of treatment from 20 years ago, and seeing as I was there for those I remember those horrible days watching to see minute changes and improvements that may or may not come. When you are stuck with meds that are hard on the fish and not particlarly effective against the bacteria treatment always becomes more unpleasant.

If the treatment is going well the fluff associated with its growth can literally disappear overnight, although the treatment is continued so that the bacteria deep in the tissues (which is a little harder to reach) is also killed . I think the situation here is that the antibiotics are facing a resistant strain and that despite the fact that what you are doing seems correct, the results are a bit less than spectacular simply because of resistance to these older drugs.

If you can get melafix, put a low dose of that in too. The burden on the fish is different, and it shouldnt react with the other meds.

Other than that its a case of continuing treatment to the limit of the fish's tolerance limits until the disease is finally killed.

Its a horrible position to be in, but I wish you good luck. Keep things clean, and remember to give the fish breaks from meds every two weeks for a week and do some water changes even if the disease isnt killed yet. Persistance may win the day, and in the meantime keep trying to track down more effective modern cures.

Thank you Longhairedgit for all the attention and follow ups you've given to this case.

I've been doing some hardcore gravel vaccuming on each WC between dosing and it seems to remove quite a lot of detritus. Although I wonder why the tank is getting so dirty since every vaccuming session picks up quite a bit of organic matter of what may seem plant cellullose mostly. Could this be the plants or the driftwood getting the water dirty beyond control? Would this affect greatly on the water quality? Could the fish load in the 50 gallon tank be too much, enough to get the gravel so dirty?

I found Pimafix at my LFS and will be picking it up tonight to administer ASAP. Is this as good as Melafix? Should I use it? The difference between each other seems to be that Melafix provides a tissue regeneration agent whereas Pimafix is mainly to kill off the bacteria. Should it be ok to use Pimafix and not Melafix?

Thanks again for procedures on treatment, I'll be sure to let the fish rest after some time of dosing them so that they are not abused. I hope they respond well to Pimafix if indeed it is proper to use, I really like the fact that it is a natural extract, therefore easier on the fish.

Thinking of ordering some meds online, is Protozin still the first choice of medication against columnaris?

I hope with all sincerity that the fish are able to shake off this affliction, On my behalf I will do all that is in my power to avert the current situation.

Thanks again for all the help and if you have anymore comments, directions I should follow or meds to use please don't hesitate to provide your knowledge.

Thanks from behalf of the inhabitants of my tanks and myself,

James

Pimafix is the sister medication to melafix. Melafix concentrates on the bacterial end of treatment, and pimafix does the fungal end. It might help, you never know.It doesnt hurt to cover all bases and sometimes columnaris will let fungus in and vice versa, and it doesnt always hurt to treat for both, as long as the water and the fish can take the impact of another drug. Use it sparingly.

Yes, protozin would still be my drug of choice for treating columnaris, Ive used it not only to save my own fish with complete success, but also on my girlfriends sisters goldfish, poor little fellas were terribly treated and who were late stage with columnaris, about to die, and covered in fluff on all the fins, the mouth the back and the gills. It turned that little dying goldfish arounfd in 3 days, and you could tell it would make it after that. I kicked butt on the cage cleanliness and it did make it and is now the size of a baseball .

In pretty much all of my tanks about twice a year I rip all the bogwood out and give it a scrubdown with a wire brush and some really scalding hot water. I find that you do that once in a while a lot of the nitrate does go down. If bogwood gets a bit old and spongy it can act like a refuge for bacteria and old tank detritus and I like to strip the surface of it back a little. This does result in a few tannins hitting the water afterwards, but this often has a beneficial side effect on fish health.

Plants too, I find in well stocked tanks will tend to attract more detritus at the roots and bases than they can contain all the nitrates from, and ripping them up, gravel cleaning where the roots were, and rinsing the roots thoroughly under the cold tap can really clean things up. If the roots are getting a bit long you can usually also pinch them off a little to shorten them, and often the plants reinvigorate after that, odd though it may seem.A lot of plants benefit from the odd bit of pruning, at both ends.

... and , your welcome!

Well, after a week of treatment, I've started to see some improvement on some of the Red Phantom tetras in the 50G, although still some show some degree of infection on the tip of their bottom lip. Farlowella seems a lot better as well. Hoplos catfish is real hardy but has grave infection on the tips of his whiskers and most cardinal tetras except one do not show any trace of infection on their lip.

Gouramis in 20G tank do not show much improvement.

After one week of medicating the fish with the previously mentioned antibiotics, the fish are not completely healthy, and come monday I will try with different antibiotics and hopefully be able to get my hands on some Melafix, in order to adequately medicate the fish and take a different approach on the infection.

I hear you on the driftwood and plant issue, I'll monitor parameters and stay on top of WC's to make sure the Nitrates don't hit the roof.

I'll keep you posted on how the fish react to the change of meds, hopefully for the better.

All the best,

James

Appologies are in order, I seemed to have deleted the previous post by mistake.

Basically it stated that the fish in the 50 gallon are much better, the Hoplos Catfish being the only one that seems to have some remanent in his whiskers, but I am not too sure if it is only the thinned out appearance of them.

The end of medication period ended and last night 50% WC was done, filters, heaters and basically all hardware was desinfected and AC was put back into the tank in order to clean off the meds. Both in the 50 G and the 20 G hospital tank. This done in order to give them a break from medication.

The Gouramis in the 20 G are not as well as the fish in the larger tank, there is one that still shows a filament on its lip. It may seem that the meds were somewhat degraded or old, the Oxytetracyclene was brown as it entered the water.

I will pick up some Furan 2 in a "not so LFS" located in the province next door, about a 40 minute ride away. They seem to be the only store that has it in stock, at least the only one I've found.

Should I isolate these fish that are still showing symptoms in a separate hospital tank in order to treat them after the med break is over?

Thank you for all the help you have provided specially longhairedgit who has endured the disease at bedside.

As well thanks FP for the space provided to voice these situations.

Entirely in your debt,

James

Very glad to hear the fish are doing better!

Personally id leave the fish where they are, increased stress (ie: being caught and moved) tends to make them more vulnerable to disease. I'd wait for now and see how they look after you successfully procure the furan, and then decide whether to treat them in the tank or not. I think id treat them in situ since the furan will definately kill the remaining bacteria in the tank, although there will be a certain risk to the filter.

addendum : Before putting in the new meds it is advisable to change out around 50% of the water or run carbon for a day or two (dont forget to remove carbon before the new meds go it, and dont re-use it after either). This will help avoid the possible toxic consequences of mixing medicines.

I have to agree with you in leaving the fish in place, he is very happy in there and already has his niche filled. Also aiding the tank to regain a balance, since he is the janitor of the 50 gallon, he is a hard worker too, going at it pretty much 24/7. I think it would hurt him, the Hoplos catfish in this case, and the tank if removal took place. I was just afraid he may get the other fish sick, but like you stated there are probably still bacteria present in the tank.

Clean up crews are amazing! Sometimes I feel like making my tank stock conformed only of such fish. Good bye WC's for a while!!!

I'm just in a good mood. Even though the war is not over, I'm really glad the battle was won. Also the recent unearthing of availability of diverse medications gives me a reashuring ray of light gleeming through the window. So another road trip to find meds is in order, come next week I'll be LFSing or LFS hoping around the Costa Rican central valley. There are probably some 50 stores in a 30 minute to an hour radius, of which probably around 25 or 30 % of them are worthwhile, but sometimes in order to find what one needs around here it's necessary to hunt it down exhaustively.

50% WC took place last night and AC was added to filter media along with ceramics in hope to improve my nitrifying bacteria colony that by now, after almost two weeks of medicating, is probably unexistant or close to it. I will give them 72 hours, during this time I'll watch them closely in order to reassess the situation and determine if they need more medication.

If indeed another treatment is needed I will remove and discard the AC. How about the filter ceramics? Can they be reused or left in the medicated tank in hope to provide a safe harbor for nitrifiers? Will it just serve as an agar filled petri dish for harmfull bacteria or will in not matter at all to remove them or leave them there? If left in filter media during second treatment will washing them in chlorine after treatment remove any infectious bacteria so that they can be used again or should they also be discarded?

I feel like a 5 year old asking so many questions! We have a saying down here: Preguntando se llega a Roma (By asking one can get to Rome) Thanks for your time and responses they have been more than helpful. This victory is as much yours as it is my fish's.

Sincerely,

James

Filter ceramics should be kept and re-used. They dont absorb toxins the same way that carbon does, nor do they really retain old meds. The treatments will kill the harmful bacteria on them. Ceramics and sintered glass tubes and shapes can be kept for around 6 months to a year, and sometimes used way after that, although the erosion of water movement starts to slowly diminish the porous surface, and it is this porous surface that provides a home for the beneficial aerobic bacterial colonies. To be honest though, I have some sintered glass eheim media that still puts in a good performance after 2 and a half years!

The trouble with carbon is, that although it is bar none, the most effective toxin removing media, in about 2 -3 months of use the structure of it is so fragile that it breaks down on a microscopic level, and when that happens , toxins and waste materials are released back into the tank, so it has to be removed before that breakdown occurs.


Its not childish at all to ask, in fact I wish more people would ask, in fact I am rather relieved and gratified when people do ask, learn and then pass on what they have learned. It is one of the finer aspects of the human race at any age. Those having the humility and good sense to ask tend to do rather better than most. Im a pretty good level guru by the standards on here(if I do say so myself .lol), but I willingly drop any authority to ask a simple question that I dont know the answer to, or to find out something that practical experience is the best teacher for. The enquiring mind is a good thing!We all have gaps in our knowledge that might be easily filled by our peers, no matter how studious we are. Places like FP are a brilliant place to share information, lets be honest, its what its here for, and eternal praise goes to Master Adam for setting it up.

Duly noted!

Definately this a great site full of resources. Thanks to Master Adam and thanks to you for sharing your knowledge.

Kudos all around!!

James

Hi,
Carbon, in the form of Activated Charcoal, is used in
public water supplies, small home filtration units, and
in our aquarium filters.

While it is not a necessity, it does fulfill a function.

It works through the process of adsorption and catalytic
reduction. Its porous surface also provides a home for
bacteria that maintain the Nitrogen Cycle, and also help
break down the various organic compounds in the tank.

Carbon will also filter out the heavy metals such as
copper from medications. Whenever treating a tank with
medications, be sure to read the instructions. Most will
tell you to remove the carbon from the filter.

Carbon will remove the tannins from fresh driftwood.

Carbon also "wears out" over time. It can only adsorb
or reduce just so much organics and then it becomes
saturated, the pores become filled, and soon it becomes
just another form of a mechanical filter trapping debris
as it flows into the filter.

How often it needs to be replaced depends upon the
bio-load of the tank and the maintenance schedule of the
tank owner. The heavier the bio-load, the more the
organics, and the more frequently it will need to be
replaced.

Here is one of many interesting articles about the use of
carbon in our filters:
http://www.oscarfish.com/cms_view_article.php?aid=606

Hope this helps...

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Awesome link Frank, thanks... Contains all I ever wanted to know about carbon but was too afraid to ask! Very nice how it supports the information with other links and how it explains bit by bit the pros and cons of AC as well as how to use it. (Which seems that I haven't been using enough in my 50 gallon to remove the meds). I actually took out the AC in my 10 gallon some time ago and since I have logs in there, they turned the water dark with tannins. An effect I tried to replicate with commercial Darkwater Extract and only got a yellowish color that lasted a couple of days. Needless to say that my rummy nose tetras had never been so happy under the conditions of this naturally induced dark water.

Status update:

Fish in the 50 gallon look very well, Tetras are growing like elephants and Hoplos catfish has already started to regenerate the partially broken off whisker. Loricarids are happy and very active at lights out and also during the day time. I normally find them munching away on the hair algae that had developed on the leaves of my alternatheras or on the brown diatoms that may form on the glass surface, the loricarias mainly, they are incredible workers and cleaners in this matter keeping my tank clean of most algae except the hard green algae, not that they dont try to do away with it!

Hoplos is looking a little pale and I attribute this situation to the fact that the tanks cycle was sent into a loop by all the meds. Registring 1.5 mg/l of NH3, <0.25 mg/l of NO2 and very little to non existant traces of NO3, probably around 1 or 2 mg/l since there was very little color development on the lab test.

I did a 20% WC to reduce NH3, added Nutrafin Cycle to induce bacterial growth and increased the number of pre filter ceramics in my media to increase the surface area that the little buggers can fix onto. I maintained water temperature in the 24 degrees Celsius range.

I was debating between taking the ceramics from an established tank and introducing them into the filter media of the 50G in order to seed the tank with nitrifiers but have been reluctant to do so in fear of disease transferal from one tank to the other. The established tank holds molly fingerlings, tetras, cory and a clown loach, all seemingly healthy.

Any thoughts on this issue? Wether or not to use the ceramics from another tank to seed the 50 gallon? Or any other suggestions to diminish the impact of the tanks re-cycle on the fish?

A pleasure as always,

James

Columnaris is contagious as hell, id keep all the tank equipment seperate for now, until you can be sure the whole thing has all blown over. I have produced a flexibacter columnaris disease profile now, so you can refer to it whenever you need to. Give it a couple of weeks to be sure.

On a bad note... The fish are sick again with the same symptoms.

Back to the drawing board.

This is one resistant strain! Asking around different LFS's it seems to be the general consensus that some meds are not cutting it anymore and most Costarican aquarists have stopped using some of them since there is little to no results when using meds like Sulfa or even Furan! So on the road again to find meds that will tackle these gram negative bacteria.

Along those lines people here are using a lot of different meds to tackle columnaris, a disease that causes them to shiver upon mere mention of it, well I can understand why. A biologist uses an antibiotic used for chickens, haha, yeah! It's called Neopensol and its active ingredients are Neomicin sulfate and Oxitetracyclene. I've also seen the use of Baytril which is normally for dogs or cats that uses Enrofloxacine. And this is my personal favorite: Formaline!

Well for the sake of the fish I'll do a little more research on the pro's and con's of usage of different meds and counterindications, etc. Furan still being my first choice and I have "a guy" thats checking up on getting me protozin.

BTW: Great post on columnaris Longhairedgit! It made me feel much better to know a little better what I'm up against...

Thanks again for all your help,

James