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hi you may remember the thread i posted about having a sick black widow, well heres an update.

the afore mentioned blackwidow was quarantined and treated with wardleys promethazyl along with the two neons. the blackwidow has almost totally cleared up of any symptoms.

i then had another blackwidow starting to look ill in my main tank along with another neon. i decided upon the success i had with the promethyazul medication that i would dose the main tank and try and rid the fish of the disease. however this resulted in an ammonia spike upto 0.5ppm which i battled with 40% changes everyday untill it returned to 0- i realised in this process that i need to step up my cleaning schedule and really remove all rocks etc when gravel vaccing as i was always finding new spots i could remove dirt- so this probably contributed to the problem. during this process i noticed a few small white spots appearing on the mentioned black widow as well a couple of neons, so i changed my treatment to aquamaster ich remedy. this seems to be woking well and the fish with spots have lost them- bar one an albino black widow whom seems to be the worst effected.

today i have noticed one of my black widows has a white patch forming above his gills and it looks like the original problem i was worried about- columnaris.

so im going to dose 2moro with promethyasul instead of the ich med as both have the malachite green, tho am not sure if it will make much difference. the disease has been slow to claim another victim but im worried that with the fish recovering from ich that it could really take hold.

if this doesnt work do you think i should stock up on cycling products and dose with tetracycline? i cant purchase furan or marycyn here. (unless anybody else in oz has seen them on the net?)

You could try to prepare a medicated food with oxytetracycline, rather than adding it wholesale to the tank. Might help limit the damage to the filter, and ensure the fish gets a reasonable intensity of dosage. You could try segregating the fish into a smaller aquarium for a couple of days and feeding it there.

how do you go about preparing the medication as a food lhg? the only antibacterial medication i seem able to get my hands on is tetracycline tablets- could these be dissolved and food soaked in the result or is that crazy?. i have purchased a new 20 gallon and am waiting for the filter and heater to arrive- i was planning on moving the black widows and neons and treating them with the tablets.
the black widow with the white growth above his head has totally cleared up with the continued medication of wardleys promethyazul, here a photo of what he was looking like which i assumed to be columnaris (quite saddle like but not semetrical or round):

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but as i say this has disapeared leaving only this fellow sick and a neon with a white patch at the tip of his tail. the white spot has cleared up and the other fish are looking alot more healthy- does this look like columnaris?


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my water has been effected a little during the treatments and at one point the ammonia rose to .5ppm but i have been water changing daily and seem on top of it. apart from that the gh is kept around between 5 and 8, kh is around 2, nitrates and nitrites havent registered above 0 (the plants are going nuts and taking over as i have been allowing them to grow un controlled in the hope they would help remove toxic chemicals)
and ph is around 6.8. temp 26 degrees c

there havent been any deaths yet. i should add that tank is 50 gallon and contains around 20 neons, 3 bolivian rams, a small bn pleco, a clown peckolita, 5 black widow and an albino black widow.

i have been pondering the lack of bottom feeders could be the base of the problem but fear adding any corys- at the moment due to disease and in the long term for fear of overstocking.

in the long term i am considering removing the neons to the new 20 gallon i am initially going to use as a hospital and adding a few corys to the main tank in their place.

one other point i have been pondering is the lack of any signs of disease in the rams/ plecos which makes me wonder if it is my water quality, tho i feel i am keeping on top of that.

anyway this post is getting remarkably long without me making much of a point- i was just wandering if removing the blackwidows and the neons to the new 20 and treating with tetracycline seems like a good plan? then hitting the 20 with a biological product to get it cycling faster? or does this seem like the wrong approach?

cheers dan

edit: and io have just peered into the tank and noticed a neon swimming with no signs of distress or exterior disease but trailing a white poo, which is a new symptom.

I associate the white poo symptom with internal parasites. Are they eating? Do they appear to be losing weight?

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Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

yeah they are all eating fine and all active. no signs of any white poo today. that was the first i had seen of white poo.
also the black widow pictured with the infection around his mouth past away. the first casualty, hopefully the last. i think the infection reached his gill as he was having trouble breathing.

Metronidazole is what you want to get. You can either buy food that is already prepared or you can buy the tablets, dissolve them and soak the food in the liquid for at least 30 minutes. Either way, it works. Feed for two weeks and wait another two while observing the excrements of your fish before you add new ones and you will be fine. White stringy feces is commonly associated with internal parasites, metronidazole will take care of them.

so this would mean that the problem would be internal parasites and the subsequent problems would be secondary infections?

i have only witnessed the one white poo...

thanks for the input by the way- this is a new slant on things!


i like this situation better then a full on outbreak of columnaris. maybe that idea would explain a few things. the parasite weakeningthe fish whom then fall ill. which is why its only the odd fish effected and not the whole tank. hmmm.

so find Metronidazole you reckon????

Hi fandan

Metronidazole is hard to get in Australia. It is prescription only, so you need to find a sympathetic vet or doctor who will write you a script. Unless you're lucky, most vets don't have much experience in treating fish, but if you have one locally that you can talk to, be exact on what you think you need. They're less likely to prescribe if you're vague. I got this metronidazole (metro) dosage rate from another forum

Dose rate is 250 mg per 10 lts of tank water every 48 hours, with a 30% water change before each new dose, for 3 treatments.

Tell your vet/doctor that's what you need & hopefully they will write it out, as you ask. That's what my vet did. She didn't know what dosage was right for fish, but accepted the info I gave her & obliged accordingly.

Good luck with your fish.

Cheers
TW

Boy,

things are different down under! I hope you will be able to get Metronidazole from a vet as Robyn suggested. There are two ways to treat with the compound: feeding tainted food (that's what I did) or putting it in the water. Either way, it will work. The intestinal parasites will weaken the fish and predispose them to secondary infections, that is correct. However, it is also possible that you have two independent things going on. The parasites need to be taken care of, even if only one fish appears to be infected - eventually it will spread throughout the tank.

Good luck!

Claudia is right, in the food is better if your fish are still eating. When mine have needed metro though, they were not eating, so had no choice but to dose the water.

Here's the rest of the info in regards to dosing the water:-

Lights must be off during the treatment, as Metro is destroyed by light. If the fish is still eating, soak some dry food in metro and water. That way it goes straight into the gut where it does the most good, and put the remainder of the metro in the water.

Dropping the level of the water in the tank is a good way to reduce the amount of medication needed. Just make sure your filters and heater can still function properly.

Dissolve the tablets in a small amount of tank water for about an hour, before adding to the tank.

Remember, no carbon in your filters during treatment of any kind, and turn your UV off.

The next piece of info is more for those who make homemade discus food, but post it here in case it helps someone out.

Dosage in food = Metronidazol 1gm Metro per 100gms of food fed 3 times a day for 3 days

However, in your case, I'd follow the plan of soaking some dry food in a little of the metro/water mix & putting the remainder of the metro/water mix in the tank.

Like Claudia says, good luck with your fish.

Cheers
TW

If you have trouble getting metro, try getting some octozin, made by waterlife. It is available in Aus, and if you are in Melbourne I can tell you which shops, or even give you some tabs myself.

Good luck.

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Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

okey thanks for that guys- i have to visit the vet to inquire about my cat getting de sexed so will enquire about metro (thanks for that info TW) and also look into the availability of octozin. i have found it on the web but it is generally out of stock. thanks for the offer lindy but i live in albury nsw, much appreciated though.

on a fish front every body is now looking fine, eating well and active- so there is a bit of a phantom menace feel to the tank. the new 20g hospital tank is set up awaiting the arrival of the heater and filter. no signs of more white poo as of yet but i do remember seeing one of the black widows do one a couple of months ago- i put it down to being a reaction with the medication i was using as i had just started using pima/mela fix.

im glad everybody is looking healthy and will let you know how i get on with getting hold of medications.

thanks for your help and well wishes, will keep you posted!