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Hi,

Has anyone used a product called Nitra-Zorb by Aquarium Pharmaceuticals? Any opinions on its usefulness? It is apparently able to be recharged for extended use. How does someone go about "recharging" this stuff?

Since we started routinely testing our 180 gallon tank in December of last year we have had consistently high nitrAte readings (varying between 80 and 160ppm - and generally at the higer end of the scale) the test strips measure up to 200 ppm.

I know this is excessively high and thought that it may have been the test strips giving a false reading (we have been using 5-in-1 strips which are known not to be particularly reliable / accurate)and the fish were looking fine. On the chance that it was a problem with the strips, I went out this morning and bought a dedicated nitrate test (chemicals and test tube style kit). Tested with the new kit and it appears that the strips were reasonably accurate. Our nitrate readings were at least 160ppm. The new test only goes up to 160ppm.

Our water change schedule had been about a 20%-30% change every 1-3 weeks but this has been bumped up a bit since we started doing the tests and got such high readings.

We did a 30% WC on Sunday and tested before and after with no difference in the result. Another 50% water change was done today (very slowly so as not to stress the fish) and before and after results have only gone from 160+ppm to between 80 and 160ppm. We tested the tap water and it came up as zero both stright from the tap and after addition of the water conditioner.

Suprisingly, none of the supposedly sensitive fish like the BGK or the newly added farlowella have displayed any signs of water chemistry induced stress.

The instruction leaflet that came with the new test kit recomends using Nitra-Zorb in combination with more frequent water changes to lower nitrAte levels.

I know that more frequent water changes should help (and we will certainly endeavour to be more vigilant about this in future) but will the Nitra-Zorb speed up the process?

I hate adding any unnecessary products to the tank as it has been fairly stable and I don't want to destabilise it and end up with dead fish. I was thinking that if the Nitra-Zorb is effective in lowering the nitrates in the short term that I could then remove it and maintain the lower levels with water changes. Is this a feasible solution?

Does anyone have any other solutions other than adding a ton of fast growning plants (our light levels are pretty low so most stem or floating plants don't do well in our tank)

Thanks for your help

GT

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

(our light levels are pretty low so most stem or floating plants don't do well in our tank)

Actually, some of the floating plants like haorn wort dont need as much light as you think they do.

What is your stocking levels?

Can you list the watts of your bulb, the tank size, and possibly the K rating. This will help us tell you what are good nitrate absorbers.

PS: Im experimenting with aponogeton, and they dont need that much light to grow.

><> ~=!Vote Today!=~ <><
-----> View My Dragons <-----

Thanks GobyFan for the prompt reply.

The tank is a 6x2x2 foot open top tank.

Stocking is as per my profile although we are planning to move the 2 angels and the opaline gourami (I think these fish are resposible for the mystery disappearances of 28 neons and 4 threadfin rainbows) to a 4 foot tank that we have lying empty just as soon as the new silicone on it is cured and it has been water tested for a few days.

The lighting levels in the tank at the moment are pretty dismal - I'm currently arguing a case for buying additional lights but I think a new filter etc for the 4 foot tank will get priority. You can get an idea of how low the lighting is in these pics although they make it look a little darker than it is really:

http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/Gone_Troppo/fulltank.jpg
http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s250/Gone_Troppo/parttank_dark.jpg

There is an 18inch long flouro(40watt not sure of the K rating) over the centre front of the tank and a 30 inch flouro (30 watt 10,000K) over the back right of the tank.

We currently have a few clumps of val (2 different varieties) as well as a few stems of water wisteria and 3 smallish crypts. All of the plants are as close to being directly under the lights as we can get them. As you can see from the pics, I don't think that we can really afford to block any more of what little light we do have by using floating plants.

It should be noted that all of the aquatic plants available in my area come from the one supplier (http://www.aquagreen.com.au/catalog.html)so any plants you suggest will need to be listed in his catalogue or we can't get our hands on it. (I hate our quarantine restrictions - it makes it hard to get anything living for our aquarium that is not strictly mainstream - boring!).

If more plants are not an option do you think the Nitra-Zorb will work?

GT

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Hi,
You mention water changes, and high nitrate readings, but
don't say much more about the other water parameters, pH
for instance.

Nitrate readings of 40+ need immediate attention.
High nitrate readings of 100+ are indicative of a
well seasoned tank that could be years old, or of
over feeding combined with poor maintenance.

Cut back on your feedings, mentally divide the non planted
parts of the tank into four sections, and with each water
change vacuum the gravel in A section clear down to the
bottom glass. With the next water change, do another
section and so on. That way, over a month, you will have
cleaned the entire non-planted tank. That should resolve
the problem.
For lighting, you might consider a 6 foot long dual tube
or even four tube fluorescent shop light. They are
inexpensive, and for bulbs use bulbs that are labeled
DAYLIGHT or SUNLIGHT. I think you will see a tremendous
change in the tank and the plants.

I suspect the reason why your sensitive fish have not
shown problems is that the decaying water quality has
occurred over a long period of time and they have adjusted
to the changes. Brand new fish of the same sensitivity
would probably show signs of distress and possibly die
within a week or two of entry.

Here is a site that could describe the tank:
http://www.bestfish.com/oldtank.html

Having said all that, what is your water source? With
the drought that is going on down there, many of our
members have reported high nitrate water coming directly
from the tap. Have you tested your replacement water?
If not, draw a glass and allow it to sit out, undisturbed
by other pets (cats/dogs/birds, etc) and then test it for
nitrate.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the reply and article Frank it was very informative.

It is possible that we are experiencing old tank syndrome - this tank has been running almost constantly for the last few years with a couple of different stocking lists. The current community has only come into being since September last year and we have only started testing for more than pH since December; immediately prior to that it housed a BGK and schools of rosey and spanner barbs, was only lit be the 18 inch light and was decorated entirely with fake plants. I much prefer the way it looks now and hope that we can sort out these nitrates so the current occupants can enjoy long and healthy lives.

As requested, the other parameters as of yesterday afternoon were as follows: pH=6.5, GH=180ppm, KH=40, nitrIte=0ppm, Temp 28C-30C or 82F-86F (the temperature varies daytime 30c, night time 28C/29C and in the cooler months of the year the temperature hovers 24C-27C or 76F-80F and i'll also mention that ths tank doesn't have a heater)

These are pretty standard readings for this tank. We currently don't have an ammonia test kit but it is on the shopping list for pay day.

Our tap water tested as follows: pH=7.0, GH=40-60ppm, KH=40, nitrIte=0ppm and nitrAte=0ppm.

We are on town water which is sourced from borefields and rainwater runoff into the dam. We are in the tropics and coming to the end of a fairly good monsoon season (we're actually closer to SE Asia than the to the rest of the country) The drought that the southern parts of the country is experiencing is not affecting us this far north.

As far as feeding schedules go, we feed a variety once a day including flakes, native fish pellets (primarily shrimp based), frozen brine shrimp, frozen bloodworm, vegie wafers and have just started including occasional fresh vegetables. Other than the vegie wafers and fresh vegetables all of the food is consumed within a couple of minutes of hitting the water. We have noticed that when we lighten up on the feedings, or we don't feed the frozed foods for a day or two the smaller fish start disappearing.

Frank, you mentioned that our fish might not be showing signs of stress because they have been acclimatising as the nitrate levels have slowly increased. The threadfin rainbows and the farlowella were only introduced three weeks ago and one week ago respectively - none of these have displayed signs of distress or illness which is partially why we thought that the tests may have been giving false results.

As I said earlier, we will up the WC schedule for the next few weeks until we get these levels back down to a more reasonable level and then try to maintain the levels with more regular water changes. The gravel vacuuming that Frank has sugested already occurs with the water changes we have been doing.

I was thinking of doing 20-30% WC daily or every couple of days until the levels are better. Is this OK or should we be doing bigger than normal changes once a week until the nitrates are better? As mentioned before, we did a 50% WC yesterday and took 3 hours to refill as we didn't want to change the parameters too fast. Can we safely refill the tank faster than this? (I need to be concious of the farlowella which is apparently very sensitive to unstable water chemistry).I know from past experience that everyone else in the tank can handle a faster WC than this , but im unsure about the farlowella and am currently being cautious, I hope we shouldn't be doing it slower!


I also still want to hear of any experiences with using the Nitra-Zorb.

Thanks again for your help

GT






Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Hi,
There are a couple of things that I notice in your
narrative. One, that you are using test strips,
and the second that you have just recently added the
two new types of fish and that they are doing fine.

Personally, I detest strips for testing. They are subject
to aging, light, and moisture (more so than liquids) and
can easily go out of date, or become contaminated.
If the new fish are acting normally, then I think I'd agree
with you that the strips probably need to be replaced.
A trip to an LFS with a water sample should eliminate
that possibility.
A phone call to the water treatment plant is also
in order. Many times they will change the
amount or mix of different chemicals to match the season
or source water situations. In places Down Under they
are adding ammonia during the drought and some of our
members are commenting that they are having troubles with
ammonia showing up where there were zero readings before.

Eliminate the possibilities one by one and then resort
to water changes and periodic substrate vacuuming. Just
give the substrate time to recover before you clean another
section or you will find yourself with a recycling tank on
top of everything else.

Personally, I base my water changes on the bio-load of the
tank.
In my tank I always do 10% and then may change the
basic 10% upward as the situation calls for.
For instance, if I'm vacuuming the gravel in a
section then I vacuum the gravel and use whatever
the water change turns out to be.
Generally around 20-30%.

As far as larger changes are concerned, I only do them if
there is a disaster in the tank that I'm trying to help
cure with a large or massive water change.
This is where I seem to shift away from many others.
As a tank "ages" water will shift downward in pH as the
waste products create organic acids. The KH may shift, and
the GH may shift as well. The source water may also shift
as the town pulls water from different wells, or from
different intakes in a river or lake. These shifts can
leave you replacing water with what of a very different
water chemistry, and that can stress the fish as much as
temperature differential. A 10 or 20% water change leaves
enough of the "old" water in the tank so that when the
new mixes with the old, the result is not a radical change.
When one starts doing 50% water changes, there is the
possibility that the tank, over all, will shift radically
and might cause problems for sensitive fish.
If the new water is the same as what is already in the tank
then very large water changes would only freshen the tank
and not cause any appreciable shifts.
We have members that advocate water changes from one
end (conservative) to the other (50%+) and for their
situations, each is correct.

Needless to say, I've not mentioned the specific chemical
that you asked about. While I have heard of it, I have
never had to use it. The only time I had high nitrate, I
resolved the problem with gravel vacuuming, stopping the
kids from "helping feed the fish too" and water changes.
I try to stay away from chemicals and do things naturally
as much as possible.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks again for the help Frank

I'll keep everyone posted on how things go over the next week or so with the increased WC schedule.

GT

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

If you want a natural cure, you should go with fas
t growing plants & the Daily/Weekly water change. Now, with your dark lighting, you should get a new lightstrip(cheap at most places ive been to) and replace the light with either of the lights FRANK mentioned, or get the plant lights($5 at most places, whereas very expensive at some LFS).

Nitra-Zorb isnt all that encouraged, because, although i never have seen it or used it, i think it is like Ammo-lock, and only lasts a short time, leading to a VERY lare bill..........

It all depends on your choice, as i like the natural way better, as it looks so much better, and decreases fish stress. All im saying is that a nitrazorb is a little mysterious to me, and i think it is not needed. Good luck!

><> ~=!Vote Today!=~ <><
-----> View My Dragons <-----

Are vals considered to be good nitrate absorbers?
At this stage I am thinking that any additional plant we can get in there to suck up some of the excess nitrates is good.

We have been able to get our hands on heaps of val (not sure which species exactly but it has fairly broad leaves)and are planting it in the tank now. I think it will triple if not quadruple, the number of plants in there once we are done.

Do you think we will still need to add stem plants as well?

We have added an extra 4 foot long flouro (36W) and will add more next weekend after we have sorted out a better way to fix the bare shop lights to a hood or cover of some sort.

Water changes have been continuing - not sure of the readings right now but will update later once planting and WC is complete

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Hi to anyone who is still checking in on this thread...

Its been a few hours since the latest WC was completed and we have just tested the water.

The nitrates are currently between 40 and 80ppm. Yay!!

We still have a way to go but I think that we're making headway.

GT

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark. A large group of professionals built the Titanic.

Hi,
Some of the best nitrate absorbing plants are the the
floating ones, hornwart, anacharis, and hyacinth.
Others, such as duckweed work, but each plant is so
small you would need a thick blanket of the stuff to
see any change and then very little, if any, light
would reach into the tank.

Vals and others will use some of the nitrate but
generally take up nutrients from the substrate.
You would want something that floats, and gets its
nutrients from the water column.

Good work It's coming down toward manageable
levels.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--