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love the new addition adds more life to the tank

They are eating very well and coloring up better. Here's a pic of the male this morning:

Yeah, just rub it in.

No really, he has an awesome color, I love it. NowherMan6, AF does have a pair of these right now, and even an idiot like myself can sex them (female is already yellow). Go get them

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, just rub it in.

Sooorrryyyy!

No really, he has an awesome color, I love it. NowherMan6, AF does have a pair of these right now, and even an idiot like myself can sex them (female is already yellow). Go get them

Where's he gonna put them?

LF what's the story on your Vieja II? Haven't heard much about them?


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They'll go perfect in my 2.5 gallon holding tank, of course! Nah, not getting into apistos

It's interesting about LFs Vieja's, seems everything I read about them says they're some of the more aggressive apistos, yet they don't seem to attack anyone in LFs tank.

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Back in the saddle!

Well if you want some really nice looking pencils and black neons just ask. I gotta unload something

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Boy it's really a ghost town around here. Hope it wasn't something I said

Anyway here's a few more pics. I'm a little worried about the female aspisto. Her belly seems alittle pinched (concave).



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The male disappeared on me this morning for about 4 hours. One disadvantage of the open top is that when you don't see a fish you think it might have jumped, but he was there. I forgot the big rock has a sort of shelf about 2 inches of the bottom making a perfect cave. The shelf is in the back and that's where he was. I also noticed the male is starting to get aggressive I saw it biting a kuli loach, shrimp and also the female apisto.


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tetra, if you're worried about her concave belly then a treatment with metrodozinole won't hurt. It's a mild anti-parasitic med, I've had lots of success in the past with it.



It has been quiet...

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Back in the saddle!

Speaking of the silence...it think it is LF's fault. He ran off on us again!

Your Male is really coloring up and looking nice!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

oooh Tetra, naturally I love your tank, BUT your apistos are GORGEOUS. I have seen those in the occasional LFS here in Sydney (not many LFS sell apistos here at all - you have to search high & low). If I had somewhere to put a pair, I'd buy them in a shot. I love the very different shape of their tail. I hope your female is ok.

Don't worry if you don't see them for stretches at a time. When my female was guarding her eggs, I didn't see her for 3 days - didn't even come out to feed.

Looks like a really nice home you've made for them.

Cheers
TW

tetra, if you're worried about her concave belly then a treatment with metrodozinole won't hurt

Actually I think I have Hex-A-Mint which has the metro as the active ingredient. Maybe I dose lightly, thanks!


Tankwatcher,
Thanks for the reassurance on the disappearing apistos.

Speaking of the silence...it think it is LF's fault. He ran off on us again!

As LF goes, so does the world of FP.

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I'm a little worried about the female aspisto. Her belly seems alittle pinched (concave)

How is your female going?

Cheers
TW

OK,

I am back now, lets have some info

I am with Robyn, what is now on the Apisto frontier? How are they getting along, who is chasing who, where are the hiding spots, how do they treat the tankmates, and anything else you wish to share.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sorry it's taken awhile for me to update. The Apistos seem fine I'm still in the process of moving fish. So far I moved an Amano and the two kuhli loaches out of the tank. It appears that the Apistos ate the crs, so the school of 8 gold tetras are the only other thing in the tank other than the two apistos. The male is somewhat aggressive during feeding to the female and the gold tetras, but other than that,their are no problems. I am going to move the gold tetras but to be honest I can't catch them without destroying the tank, so I'm open to ideas. I might have to start feeding them food inside a net to get them used to it and then scoop them out.

On the plant side. The only flora is now javamoss. I'm curious to what others think would be a good fert maintenance schedule for the tank. As I mentioned it has just javamoss with 18 watts of 12 gallons. I know the java probably requires very little in terms of nutrients so I'm deciding what to do to keep the java looking good and to keep algae at bay.


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Excel, little bit of flourish, a bit of K every now and then... the rest can come from fish food/ waste.

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Back in the saddle!

Excel, little bit of flourish, a bit of K every now and then... the rest can come from fish food/ waste

Thanks Nowher. I guess if I move out the school of tetras maybe a pinch of no3,po4. Good point about the K. I still like doing big water changes for the fish/spawning, with that in mind maybe I should dose no3,po4?

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That's actually a good point, forgot about the big changes. In that case I don't think it could hurt - just a pinch here and there, some P to keep the green spot away.

So you're moving all the Amanos out of the tank? Should be interesting to see how that works out with the java moss, they're perfect for keeping the moss clean.

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Back in the saddle!

Yeah that's the problem. The kuhlis were great moving the sand around, the amano as you said for the java, Now it's more maintenance

EDIT: Current Pic. To be honest I like it but that's about it. I'll probably be re-adjusting soon. You could see the apisto pair swimming in the front center.



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Current pic of the male Apisto. I'm noticing red color now on the upper fin as well. Does this mean I have a triple-red? yippie


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To be honest I like it but that's about it. I'll probably be re-adjusting soon.

What do you mean? Is the look boring for you? Maybe because you see it every day, for us who see the tank maybe once a week it is still interesting. What would you change?

Apisto: I didn't know that your type comes with these crazy color definitions

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well to be honest the tank looks better with the shrimp crawling around the hills and I like the gold tetras which by the way I can not catch unless I take apart the tank. I'm now considering just moving the Apistos into my 72g and adding like 4 more gold tetras and 5 or 6 CRS.

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But wouldn't moving the Apistos into the 72 mean that they have to split the territory with 2 pairs of Rams? I don't know if that would be such a good idea. I wouldn't put more than 2 pairs of these types of cichlids in my 125G, if at all.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

But wouldn't moving the Apistos into the 72 mean that they have to split the territory with 2 pairs of Rams? I don't know if that would be such a good idea. I wouldn't put more than 2 pairs of these types of cichlids in my 125G, if at all.

So what are you saying, I should declare a Fish Emergency and take over my son's 10G Guppy Tank?

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Does this mean I have a triple-red?

Who knows, but I haven't read about this in your type of apisto.

I can not catch unless I take apart the tank.

I am pleased I'm not the only one who struggles to catch my fish. I know everytime I need to move a fish,it means ripping out all my plants, rocks & starting again. They are too good for me

Cheers
TW

So what are you saying, I should declare a Fish Emergency and take over my son's 10G Guppy Tank?

Poor kid. Daddy is taking his tank away!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetratech,

I see that there are Double-Red and other forms out there, This Link is for a double-red. Unlike yours, he wears his red on the outer edges of the caudal fin and has yellow on the inner areas.

What to do with the couple: I would think that they could be ok in the 72, but I am less certain that this would be the case if she breeds.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good Morning I've been up all nite working on a project.
Ugh!!!!!

You know that female in the link you just sent me other than the color doesn't look anything like mine.
Ugh!!!!

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Wow tetratech, an all-nighter. You must have had loads of coffee then.

Anyway - look at This Link, this female looks more like yours. Also, I seem to identify that your female is more elongated than the cacs body shape, which would be in line with agassizii.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah lots of coffee, I'm probably gonna crash by noon.

Well mine definitely looks more like that second link so if that site is correct I don't even have a double read I have a "Alenquer"

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Tetratech this morning -->

Here is Another Link to a Red/Gold form. If agassizii are anything like cacs then they will have fry of varying color forms (see Triple-Reds that have babies of all types of reds). Some of these fry will grow up and may not show clear signs of the original color morph of their parents.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

These agassizii have a beautiful shaped tail - I like how it's spearhaped - just that bit different to most fish.

Seems like all these apistos are a pain to sex and it can even be kinda hard to know for sure of what type, especially with the females.

tetratech, let's hope for wrigglers then you'll know at least you have a pair Most info I read say for SA dwarf eggs, a low pH and soft water is the go. Though if you're putting them in the hi-tech tank, you probably can't give them the soft water, cause of the likely pH swings soft water may cause - or have I got that wrong

Cheers
TW

No you got that right Robyn. No fry have ever survived in my 46g. My bolivians had fry a few times and non survived. Hard to believe with all the ground cover. This tank actually looks better with shrimp and a single school of small tetras. It's sometimes hard to put the scape ahead of the fish. Decisions, decisions.


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Anyone know for sure if this female looks healthy. It still has this pinched stomach area and my gut tells me she's not 100%.



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Here's a shot of the male after he displayed his finage when the female got to close:




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O.K. now on to the tank itself. Afterall this is planted aquaria .

Anyway I was saying that I didn't love the tank. Something wasn't quite right so I think I'm back on track now for what I ultimately want to accomplish. Here is the tank from a few days ago:



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And here's the tank tonite after adding more height to the java moss. Now to me it looks more like a rock coming out of a big mountainside as opposed to a rock sitting on top of some java moss. Still not where I want it but more on track.



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It still has this pinched stomach area and my gut tells me she's not 100%.

Looks like an internal parasite problem. This can develop very slowly, the fish gradually gets thinner and thinner, while remaining active and with a normal appetite.

To all intents and purpose the fish can behave quite normal for a few weeks/months but never gains weight. By the time it is sickly looking enough to be noticeable it will, in all probability, be too late to treat.

Definately I'd try a prophylacyic dose of Metrodizanole or other internal parasite meds.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

tetratech,

I don't know if there is a problem with the female, and I for sure cannot identify which problem may be there, if any. But I know that Bensaf is quick with suggesting a treatment for internal parasites, he did that a few times to me as well .

About the tank: I liked it better before, this is way too chunky for my taste. Don't take offense (and remember who is talking), but now the land mass looks like a big blob and way to solid in its vertial arrangement. Also, you lost almost all triangular arrangements except for the overall horizontal shape of the island itself.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Don't take offense (and remember who is talking), but now the land mass looks like a big blob and way to solid in its vertial arrangement

Don't be silly, I want all comments Interesting prospective. Yeah maybe some more growth and some better pics. I"ll leave it for a few days and see if my prospective changes. Bensaf didn't say anything about the new changes, but he's usually not one to hold any punches. I guess he only has time for one issue at a time.

Actually Matty suggested Metro some time back and I've been dosing 1/2 strength every other day. Dosed for about a week and I'm gonna start again.

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A better way to identify the change would be to say that the rock is now melted into the scape as opposed to just being in the tank. Either way it's still a work in progress.

Besides it gives Matty a run for this money in height with his glosso fall.

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"Don't take offense (and remember who is talking), but now the land mass looks like a big blob and way to solid in its vertial arrangement" - Boy, if I only knew how to spell

Anyway, I liked it better when it was more like the one below, although that one has some minor problems as well, in particular too sharp of an edge between sand and "land".

For me, the main advantage of that arrangement is an almost 360 degree visual experience, as one is inclined to turn to the sides of the tank to see what is behind that rock. Now, on the other hand, it is obvious on what is behind there - more rock.

Ingo

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Earlier Tank

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

For me, the main advantage of that arrangement is an almost 360 degree visual experience, as one is inclined to turn to the sides of the tank to see what is behind that rock

I'll tell you what's behind the rock. GSA , cause I can't reach it and my otos have been moved out.
I think I'm gonna throw my apistos into the 72. I like the shrimp crawling and cleaning the rugged terrain.

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Instead of individually dosing this tank and since it's evaporation is high due to the open top I think I'm going to just top off with water from my 72g, which would probably be twice a week. This will the tank will get traces of everything, but not in large quantities. I guess I might still want to dose excel. What do you guys thing of this plan.

I'm really at a lose fiquring out moss. I really don't think it needs much in terms of ferts. Sometimes it looks great other times it looks "dusty" and not really alive.
The tank has pretty good flow from the aquaclear 20.
It looked it's best when the crs will roaming the place.

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It looked it's best when the crs will roaming the place.

I concur.

I don't think apistos are suited to this environment as well. They're a type of fish where you make everything as jungle like as possible and let them sort their way through it - this is a minimalist type set up, just rock and moss, and benefits from having small, peaceful fish and shrimp. In addition, the larger size of the male apisto throws off the perspective a bit - without him it looks like a real mountain range - his presence gives away the size of the rocks.

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Back in the saddle!

In terms of ferts for your tank.

I am doing similar thigns with my 2G Hex. Every week during the water chages I save out about a gallon that I use for a water change in the hex. 90% of my plant mass is Java moss and it seems to be doing just fine this way. Every once in a while I will give it a dip of Excel.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I don't think apistos are suited to this environment as well. They're a type of fish where you make everything as jungle like as possible and let them sort their way through it - this is a minimalist type set up, just rock and moss, and benefits from having small, peaceful fish and shrimp. In addition, the larger size of the male apisto throws off the perspective a bit - without him it looks like a real mountain range - his presence gives away the size of the rocks.

What about the old scape vs the new. Do you see the eventual melting of the rock into the range?

Sounds good wings

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I definetely see what you're trying to do. I think the rock on the left needs to get good and fluffy, same as the one behind it. Right now there's too much skin showing, so to speak... It's a different look altogether, the identity of the last one was the rock itself as the mountain surrounded by jungle, like an aerial view - this one could very well be a scene from that scape - a close-up view of that mountain, zooming in on one section where a bare piece of stone juts out from an overgrown mossy area.


At least that's what I see... I could very well be delusional from wokring nearly 40 hrs in the past 2 days...

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Back in the saddle!

...a close-up view of that mountain...

That is probably why I liked the old one better. It appeared to be more scape, a whole mountain vs. a wall on a mountain.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

O.K is it LF or LP? Which do you prefer.
I guess I'll have to come up with a plant name. I'm really not an "Ulimate Fish Guru".

Anyway based on the last two comments. I think Nowher is with the program and LF or LP is not buying it. Anyway I respect both of your comments. That's the fun thing about planted tanks, everyone sees something different.




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O.K is it LF or LP?

I don't know which it is. I like little fishies and I am just a little planter. But I guess I will have to come up with something else as well, this one was added as soon as the option became available.

But if in doubt, I am LF and will always stay LF

And - given that I am not Mr. Nano, I would say that NowherMan6's advice has more weight.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

BTW.... I forgot to add a while back that your male is looking really sharp. Great fish!

I really don't know where I stand on the new look any more...umm just put me on the fence until my but hurts!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I forgot to add a while back that your male is looking really sharp. Great fish!

A Belated thanks Wings!

Anyway here's a current shot. First the female. I'm still not sure if this one's gonna make it. The pinched stomach that I suspected as an internal problem as been second my Bensaf . I've been treating with metro for a few weeks now every other day 1/2 dose. I recently increased to full dose. In my estimate, she looks the same. LF I see what ou mean about the elongated body. Mind defintely is more slender throughout while your cac females have some bulkiness to the body behind the head.



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The male is looking good as always:



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tetratech,

Glad you see the difference, but sadly do I see whay you mean when you talk about her seeming to be sick. There is a real dent in her belly and it appears worse than in an earlier picture.

Does she eat? How is her poop?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Does she eat? How is her poop?

She eats fine and her poop looks normal. I guess I'll continue with the Metro treatment.

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Now I am purely guessing:

How would a female look after she lad her eggs? Can it be that the sudden disposal of eggs causes an indented stomach because the volume of the fish has been reduced?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice thought LF, but I doubt it. I looked at pics from day 1 and the pinched belly was there, somehow I missed it at the LFS . I've had them a month already.

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Hm,

Even with the knowledge that internal parasites vary in duration until a fish succumbs to it, a month of visible signs for such a small fish is a very long time. What do you think about that?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Even with the knowledge that internal parasites vary in duration until a fish succumbs to it, a month of visible signs for such a small fish is a very long time. What do you think about that?

Well, this is where my knowledgable falls short. I'm no "Ulimate Fish Guru" am more like a "Planted Tank Geek with an Attitude"

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tetratch, I think these things can be very slow acting. I have seen the same thing in my male cac ever since I bought him, but it is only since Friday that I thought he acted sick.

I think these internal parasites can be slow acting & by the time the fish act sick, it is too late. That's what I'm hearing from an apisto site I visited too. So, it's probably good that you are treating sooner, rather than later.

I'm currently treating 2 of my males too, but in at least one of them, I fear I it is too little, too late.

Good luck.

Cheers
TW

tetratech - That is why you have to post more. This way you will be able to change your title

Anyway: You guys make me a little worried and I am wondering if it would be a good idea to treat mine, just in case. In gernal, I am not to wild about overmedication, or medication if there is no visible need. But then again, once it is visible it may be too late.

Did you try peas or something along that line?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

tetratech - That is why you have to post more. This way you will be able to change your title

What I don't post enough to change my title?

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What I don't post enough to change my title?

- Well - No -

Do you remember a long time ago I was just surpassing you around the 3000 post mark. In the meantime you added about 850 posts while I added about 2,200

That is almost 3 times as much

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Do you remember a long time ago I was just surpassing you around the 3000 post mark. In the meantime you added about 850 posts while I added about 2,200

I don't get it, so what parmeters are needed?

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You guys make me a little worried and I am wondering if it would be a good idea to treat mine, just in case.

Probably not, unless you see some mishapped belly or not natural behavour. In hindsight, I could say both gave me early indicators- the cac had the underbelly that didn't look quite right right from the get go & the bita just didn't behave right - hiding, scared even of food - although he would eventually come out & eat - but scared of the food actually being put in the tank. Then of course for at least 6-8 weeks that scale being pushed outwards & I foolishly did nothing all this time.

I am far from an expert & I think that I might consider the "just in case treatment" but that's just 'cause I'm now spooked. If yours have good body shapes, eat well, interact as expected, it may not be good to over medicate -same as it isn't good for humans to over medicate.

Anywho, that's just my 2 cents.

Cheers
TW

Well it's been a while, so here's a current pic. This tank continues to be very low maintenance. Now that it's all java moss I've completed stopped dosing the tank with the exception of about a 20% or so water change once a week in which I mix in tap and water from the 72g.

I've been playing around with the tank abit. Notice the change.

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Uhm...I don't know how I missed this thread for so long. Sorry tetratech. I do think your mountain is starting to compete dramatic wise with the glossofalls. Actually it's probably moreso. The rocks take up more than 1/3 of the tank.

I don't get it, so what parmeters are needed?

I think it's 5K posts. Something I'll reach in another 5 years.

Notice the change.

Hmm...the pic shrank? *squints* looks like there's a couple sticks over there with poofballs on the end...shishkabob? I don't know how I feel about the shishkabobs, but I like the rock structure. It will continue looking better as the moss fills in more. Complete 180 from where the tank started.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I don't get it, so what parmeters are needed?

I had to swear a FP oath not to give away what it taked to reach the next level , but Matty is pretty close with his assumption.

shishkabob?

To me it looks more like a palm tree on the beach, as can be seen on tropical islands. Nevertheless, it may be pushing the "immitation of nature" just a little too far. Otherwise it looks very nice, although the moss seems to be on the edge of needing a trimming in the front section.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

shishkabob

No more pictures for you!!!!

As I said I was just playing around with the tank. I like LF's palm tree view much better...

I java moss does need a trim also this tank is really ideal for shrimps to be crawling around the moss. I'm not sure if the apistos will eat the amanos. The rams and rainbows don't bother them in the 72g, but as you know the apistos ate my crs. This is also smaller quarters so the amanos might become food as well.

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Yeah,

I have the same fears about shrimpsters and Apistos, in particular the males may try to take a bite. And with no claws to defend themselves, why not try to enjoy a few shrimp legs at least? Too risky for me, at $5 per Amano.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well I haven't given up on the twigs yet. BTW these were the sticks that were in the 72g and LF mentioned something about crushed crab legs now I get shishkabob from Matty. You guys are really making me hungry. Any I moved the sticks to the other side on an angle that to me anyway works well with the rock formation.

Anyway here it is:



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This probably won't be appetizing, but now it looks like ET's hand, only brown. Or it could be the hand of that monkey you guys are always talking about around this tank....I never did get that.

I do like it a bit more on this side than the other. I think alone those sticks will look a bit out of place. I think you need a few more, then either bunch them up somewhere so it looks more substantial, or ahve them seperate in a few different places, so it doesn't look so out of place. Just my opinion there. I'm not the aquascaper of the group.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I have to say that I agree with Matty, although I am not the aquascaper of the group either.

If you really would like to use some twigs in the tank, maybe the solution would be to use more of them.

Or maybe have the completely covered in moss and let them stick out from the land into the sea (=sand) in an angle of less than 45 degrees.

Otherwise, the tank looks very nice, of course

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Alright tetra, you are back in action lets see some updates on your tanks!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Alright tetra, you are back in action lets see some updates on your tanks!

And have it scrunitized by all the nitpickers here. I don't think I can handle that.

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And have it scrunitized by all the nitpickers here. I don't think I can handle that.

What Nitpickers Where

What else is there to do? Once a tank gets pretty good then all that is left is nitpicking. Or would you like to read "nice tank" in every entry that I make?

In that case:

Nice Tank, tetratech

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What else is there to do?

Make more tanks?

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Back in the saddle!

And have it scrunitized by all the nitpickers here. I don't think I can handle that.

He said that like he isn't one of those nit-pickers

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

We need an update tetratech, please. More pictures - you know I won't nitpick.

One day, when I know more, have more confidence, I will nitpick with the best of them - but for now, only curiosity from me

Cheers
TW