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Mez, you made me laugh!!
He means Neolamprologus caudopunctatus

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Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

YAH...
What SHE SAID!

Yikes what a mouth full!

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

punks sounds so much cuter!

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

jeez for a bloke that works in a fish shop,you dont know what punks are,anyway lindy your correct.
NEOLAMPROLOGUS CAUDOPUNCTATUS,or punks for short.
check the profiles section on this site,that also has punks as there common name.
anywho,ive herd that these fellas dont get real big,and are a semi shell dweller,they will need caves and rockwork,but also shells to spawn in!
they are a very nice fish.
so does anyone see are problem mixing PUNKS with multis,once i have the 29 gall up and running.
so back on on topic.
my 15gall can be picked up this weekend,(my buddy is doing me 1 real cheap,but the catch is, he can only do a bit on each of his lunch breaks,thats why i have had to wait longer)so my multis first upgrade is only like 5 days away.so they will be happy.
i had a look into the shell witch i think has eggs in it,i cant see the eggs,i think she has layed them around the corner in the shell,if you know what i mean,there fore i cant see them,but even thoo i cant see them.im pretty sure she has them.
just her behavour tells me eggs are in there.
about a week ago,she turned on the aggresion,and started shooing all the other fish away.then she started to boss her parnter around too,even more digging and cleaning around her shell.she was still leaving the shell to eat aswell.
but over the last day and a half,ive hardly seen her,when i do see her,she only just pokes her head out to see whats going on,and then she retreats back into the shell.
oh and dad is not allowed to even come near the opening of the shell,he just sort of hangs above the shell.
so if i do have fry,im not real fussed about trying to keep any,but should i still go ahead with there tank upgrade,or will it disturb them to much....

i hate my 29g. its really the worse tank i ever bought. i have an angel fish in it with some yoyos (Botia almorhae)right now. it constently kills fish and is the only tank that kills fish and yes i am convinced its the tank dimension. its very tall with little floor space. its not easy to clean and a severe pita to work with. no room for anything and only reason its up and running is its perfect for an angelfish. the only type of fish that hasnt died in it. that and the yoyo that seem to be happy in any dimension i put them in.

I think punks will want more swimming room then what a 29g can offer honestly but im not entirely sure. its been a while since ive looked at punk profiles. I do remember wanted to turn over my 4ft tank so i could have some though.

might have a look at www.shelldwellers.com or www.finsout.com both very resourceful when it comes to shellies and the like.

Lets not be silly here. I knew exactly what you were talking about, we actually have the 'red fins' at work.
It's not as if ive never kept or researched tanganyikans before, is it?
Its just better for everyone if we treat aquariums from an adult point of view, rather than just wanting lots of fish and looking like this at the store
Yeah, they are pretty much half shell dwellers. give them 10 years and they'll be real shellies. I wouldnt mix them with multis in a tank unless theyre divided, or seperated by large rock piles.
The punctatus will probably raid the shells, either for the actual shells, the females inside, or to eat the babies.
You may witness them physically picking the shells up and moving them to their quaters, sometimes with the female multi inside. This is rare, though, and more likely they'll just eat fry and squabble a bit.
James

mmm,i dont know what to say,so sin you think its the tanks dimention that is killing your fish.
well ive never herd that 1 before.
ive had great luck with my 29gal,ive raised countless cichlid babies in this tank,ive had it set up as a breeder tank,used it as a qt tank.
mine is the same as yours,not a real lot of floorspace but its tall.i didnt find it hard at all to clean,althought im 6 foot tall so i do have long arms,he he!
so mez you think the punks will raid the mutlis shells a?
even if they have enuff shells of there own.
i thought multis were pretty aggressive aswell?just from watching my little fellas,they are a fairly aggresive cichlid,the little female that i have atm,(i think shes gaurding eggs)she is has just turned plain nasty.
NOTHING is allowed near her shell.
also i havent had punks b4,so i only know what ive herd or red off the net.
so mez,these punks can be nasty fellas a?
if you dont think they will mix ok,what other shell dwellers do you think would mix with the multis.
probly some other sort of neolamprologus type a?
maybe a brevis,what about brichardi,theyd probly also be to aggresive aswell.

On a 1-10 scale for shelly nastiness, multis are the number 1. They are least aggressive of all the multis. With the occilatus being number 10.

As for mixing shellies in a 29g tank, I would say there is none that you can mix. There simply is just not enough room. All species of shellies will fight over all the shells in a territory that small. Shellies do not just want control of a single shell, but control of all shells in their territory. It is a sign of strength with the males as to how many shells they control. Thus if a female happens by, she has an open shell within that males territory. If you spread out all the shells in your tank, the male(s) will eventually have the shells moved into a group in just one section of the tank. I have seen two types of shellies in a 125 gal tank that did ok. They had large shell piles for each shellie at the extreme opposite ends of the tank. But, their shells had to be moved back to the ends of the tank every week or so. As they moved them towards the others territory. As if trying to move their own territories to over lap with the others so they could attempt to claim those shells as well.

Besides all this there is always the possability of hybridnization.

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There is always a bigger fish...

ahhh ok then,thanx for schooling me.i do have larger tanks.but i think ill just give the multis the 29gall,and source another tank for the punks....
now back on the subject of my little female multi.
i was corect,when i turned the light on today,i came back to the tank after about 20 mins,and there was about 10 tiny little wrigglers.
they are so small i can barely see them,ive never had fry this small.
i sort of new she had eggs i just couldnt see them.
judging from there still small size im pretty sure this is the very first lot of babies.
also i do have another question.
at the other end of the tank,i think i have another male,as he is really coloured up just like the pair,and he trys to come down to where the pair have there shells.
is he coloured up because he can smell her hormones,and he wants a peace of the action.

How many multis do you have altogether? Ideally there should be multiple females per male.

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Before you criticize someone walk a mile in their shoes. That way you're a mile away and you have their shoes.

Multis are one of the few shellies that can keep multiple males together. You should however have more females to males ratio to start out with though, as there can be confrontation if more males are present. Though it is usually just mild. Multis are also one of the very few that have multiple teir spawns being raised together. In other words, you will see all the group helping and raising all spawns of multiple ages together. You will rarely see any fighting amongst these little fish.

If you have a colony with 4-5 females in it, it is not unsual to see fry 0.5cm, 1cm, 1.5cm, 2cm, etc. all swimming together and all being protected by the entire colony.

Then on the other extreme end, the occilatus, males will fight over territories, while females in the harem will fight over prime shells. Females rarely injure each other, but the males can cause devistating damage to each other. These buggers do have some ounced teeth. And, as for aggressiveness of them.... They will attack your hand when you are cleaning the tank! Believe that, a 3-4cm fish attacking your hand! It has been documented multiple times, that pound for pound (or kilo for kilo) that these buggers are the most aggressive and dangerous fish in all the marine kingdom. They honestly do not fear anything.

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There is always a bigger fish...

dam,those little punks sound like my old flowerhorn babies on crack!why do i always seem to pick the terrorists of the fish world..
lindy i have 5 multis atm.
im not real sure on all of the sex of the fish.
out of the 5,i now know for sure,that i have a pair(cause the tiny fry are still wriggling in the bottom of the shell he he)and im %99 i also have another male.
so thats 1 female and 2 males out of the 5,the other 2 are still to small to even have a guess.
i hope thr fry come throo ok,to help boost my numbers.
i can try to obtain some more multis when i upgrade them to the 15gall.
but i dont like my chances,i took me months just to get the 5 i got!
id love to have a nice colony where everone gets along,and helps out other family members.
if the fry dont come throo ok,and by some mirical i can obtain more to put into the 15gal,how many should i get?
if they are old enuff to be sexed,like 4 females and 1 male!

They will attack your hand when you are cleaning the tank! Believe that, a 3-4cm fish attacking your hand! It has been documented multiple times, that pound for pound (or kilo for kilo) that these buggers are the most aggressive and dangerous fish in all the marine kingdom. They honestly do not fear anything.

Haha...so true. Mine used to attack gravel vacumes..and even a new heater i added.

well i got the 15gal today,but im going to hang off on the upgrade!i want to see how the fry go,b4 i try moving them around.
i also tryed to get some more multis today,or even order some in.
once again no luck.
he said all he can do is ask the guy who brought in the multis that ive got,if he can bring in more if they have babies again.
so for now it looks like ill just have to make do with the ones ive got...

well the babies seem to be doing fine,they are now free swimming in front of the shell.theres 7 of the little fellas.mum is still gaurding them well.
ill start giving them some fry food 2morro.
so hopefully all goes well and they can fit in with the other multis...

Well i dunno how long its been, but i have fry.
I saw 4 or 5 out of the shell, then as i was looking, saw another 6 or 7 under another rock, so god knows how many are in there. They're tiny, and eating tetra prima, lol.

my little fellas have been let into the colony.i seen another male checking them out b4.they have been eating crushed flake,and liquid fry food.
also they are scattered around the shell pile.
its like mum has sort of said,ok yous are on your own now.
she not rounding them up anymore
i hope they come throo ok..

ive got the 15 gal sitting there waiting,what size should i let the fry get to b4 i move them all into the 15gall.
as i dont have the room to have the 15 gal cycling while im waiting.
when i do swap tanks,i use all the water from the 5gall,and top it up slowly over the next week.
also when i do upgrade them,i should probly get some more shell too shouldnt i?
well everone was right,these little multis are 1 fun fish to watch.
easy to keep,breed,good looking,not to aggresive,and very social too.
im spewing i didnt get some sooner./:'

You dont need to seperate the fry at all. Leave them with their parents. Dont feed them anything special, bbs would be of benefit im sure though.
When the larger tank has cycled properly, i'd just shove the whole lot in there at once. i wouldnt go splitting colonies up.

could just move the old filter they have now to the larger tank. instant cycle. between the filter and mature sand i doubt it would even mini cycle with tiny multies.

na im not planing on seperating the babies,i meant all the fish in the tank were getting moved.also the 15 gal,isnt cycling,ive gotta take the 5gal out,then put the 15 gall in!no room to have it cycling.
so ill have to take out the babies and larger multis,put them aside,then switch over gravel and shells into the 15gal,use the water and 2 filters from the 5gal,whip the fish into the 15gal,then fill up with SOME tapwater,then fill it up over the next few days.
the babies are still doing ok!
but i was rite,mum isnt really bothered with them now.but they arnt being bothered by tankmates,i cant beleave how the other multis dont eat them.
normally with breeding cichlids as soon as babies are seen by fish other than the parents its goonite babies.
not with the multis.
i love the fact that they can all band together and help raise the fry,and no fighting amoungst them.
very cool indeed..
well i mite do the upgrade this weekend,thats not to soon to move the babies is it,im not worried about moving the larger multis just the babies..

just a quick update and a quick qeustion.
the multi babies are still doing ok(touchwood)but mum has pretty much giving up on them.
as soon as the babies are big enuuf,im putting ALL THE MULTIS into the 10gall.
now the male that spawned with her,she pretty much kicked him out when she dropped the eggs.
well now that male is sharing a shell pile with another multi,should i expect more babies.