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Hello everyone,

I'm going to try one of these tank logs not only for the joy of setting up a tank, but also for the feedback and/or criticism as I go.

Well this weekend I decided that my 15g hex tank needed a new life. It had been my cherry shrimp tank, but after a devastaing accident while I was away this past summer, the complete tank died.

I had shut it down and had converted it into having a few terrestrial plants (PACHIRA, A MINI PALM, BROMILIAD), but found out I over watered and the roots rotted (I only watered once a week but with no drainage the water just sat and stank). So I cleaned the tank well and filled it up with some new tap water.

It is currently running with a filter rated for about a 75 gallon tank (its over kill, but what I had on hand). I placed some seeded media into the filter and let it start up with fresh water as well as adding a Paradise Fish Fry to help boost the cycle (its a small juvie and I'm not concerned if it perrishes, but hope it doesnt).

Today I went to the dreaded Walmart and bought some natural colored substrate and a potted plant. I used the rock wool to further seed the aquarium (after a rinse to make sure it didnt have any nasties) and planted the Dwarf Miniature Baby's Tears I bought in the substrate and supplemented it with some under gravel fertalizer pellets.

I have no test Kit to monitor the nitrate spike, but I am not going to add anything to the tank but plants for the first month or two (other than the fry) as well as plan on investing in a test kit in the near future.

The lighting is a small unit that holds two "screw in" compact flourescents. Both are 26 watt daylight bulbs and I am considering adding another bulb if it wont cause over light nutrition and algae. I plan to eventually fert with Flourish Excel (most LFS dont carry it or have it for extreme prices so I might have to order it online).

I am not sure of my plans for the tank yet.
Here are my three pondering options:

1. Barb Community-
5 Tiger Barbs
5 Gold Barbs (already have in a temporary tank)
5 Corries

2. Kribs Community-
1 pair Kribs (already have from my dad who wants a more active species in his 10g)
1 BN pleco (will out grow and end up in the 29g or my dad's 40g)
5 Corries
5 Cardinal Tetras

3. Standard Community-
1 Dwarf Gourami
5 Mix Sexed Endlers or Guppies (I have the enders and the fry will feed the Gourami and others)
10 Cardinal Tetras (or another of uncertain species)
Cherry Shrimp

The last is a little more of what I want, but it seems a bit overstocked. I plan on having lots of plants , but also lots of drift wood and rocks too. I also have a great filter that will keep the water really clean as well as a good maintenence schedule.

I do not yet have s heater for this tank, but plan on buying one and installing it with in the next week as it is needed as winter approaches.

I plan to plant this tank healvilty with crypts, some anubias, various moss types, hairgrass, some chain sword, and some javafern.

I no longer have a camera so for the time being there are no pictures and I regret this as it will turn some of you away, but if given the opportunity I will take some pictures and upload them.

Any and all advice/criticism is widley accepted and appreciated. I plan on doing this tank "the right way" so I'm not rushing to get it up and going and stocked like I have donw tihe all my others. I want this to be a beautiful display that I can leave for my family to enjoy when I embark for my college journey.

Thanks a ton for reading it all and feedback would be very nice.

-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Just a few things you have not mentioned lighting with all those plants it will want to be a good set up.

Now for tank size 15g with what you want to put in there you will be lucky if it is even 13-14 gal dont get caught. Measure all the water that is in the tank before you start getting any fish. The exact water content is extremely important when using any meds or any thing else you have to add to the tank.

With any of those three options you could easily become over stocked.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Hi.. As heavily planted as you say would leave only so much room for fish.. in a 15gal.. Barbs get a good size..2-3 in round to many IMO you have listed for your tank.. 3 maybe and 3 corys.. gives them room to grow..
and they are nasty nippers towards each other..so to many is not good but would need 3 at the very least..cause they shoal somewhat..
Sometimes less is more in the long run..
Id stay away from any species of Pleco for that size tank.
as for what he would keep clean, he wastes alot in the end..dirty fish for a small tank..IMO..
choice 3 sounds good to me, for as heavily planted as you say the Gouramis would love it..maybe disturb some plants..and the small cards tetras would look wonderful, most effective in a planted tank..that goes for alot of tetras..
Sue

Keith:

The lighting I have (as mentioned in the first post) is a unit that allows for two "screw in" bulbs. The unit is intnded for an aquarium so all I did was take out the cheap incandescents and replaced them with some compact flourescents (26 watts a piece and DAYLIGHT 6500K). thats about 3.5 WPG if my tank is in fact 15g (its old and inherited so its possible it could be less or more).

I dont plan on any plants that are too high maintenece thats why i am straying away from stems plants and plan on some low mianence plants (Crypts, Mosses, ferns, and hairgrass)

Keith and Sue:
I already anticipated the overstocking thing and I still have time to ponder what to do with the stocking. any ideas you guys have for me would be greatly appreciated! I forgot what massive poopers plecos were so I know they are a no go. The barbs will get too big, I forgot about the size tiger barbs grow to, and I have two full grown Gold Barbs so I guess I could just throw my 5 in there, but thats not a really pretty set up IMO so I'll have a look arround the LFSs and see what I like and what will fit. Then COnvey that back to you.

Keith:
TOnight or this weekend I will be sure to measure how much water is in the tank with the gravel and report it back to you.

Thanks and
G'DAY!
-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

keith, without stuntung the cycle i decided it would be best to do a bit of calculation instead of draining and wasting all the water (slight drought ATM winter doesnt bring a whole lot of rain).

The tank measured to be about 50 Litres or 13.5 Gallons.
Today I added an anubia lancelot that wasnt looking the best, a suffering java fern from my 29g, some fern plantlets, 3 pieces of DW, a rock, a dwarf lily, a small sculpture from my travels, and a singular Ghost shrimp.

I put order on some Cheery shrimp on aquabid, hopefully I am sucessful at the auction! If not I can actually order them for about a dollar a piece plus S/H which is only like 7 bucks... but the auction is a better deal! 30 w/ S/H for 20 bucks...

IN theory its moving along but I want to take this one slow! I'm going to try to go out and get some crypts this weekend and get them planted.

Question: WHen planting from pots is it best to try yo remove the rock wool, or just leave it on? I have read differing opinions in other threads and from plants sellers. Some say the rock wool carries bacteria and nutriets that are good and will help establish the roots better. Other say that the rock wool is useless and crowds the roots and prevents them from growing outward.

I looked arroung and I like the idea of furacata rainbowfish like 6 or 7, or 12 ember tetras, or 10-12 Cardianl tetras... but thats to come after all of the plants!

Question if I am trying to do a schooling fish, do i need an agressor to keep them schooling (a Dwarf gourami or possibly a bolivian ram could do the job, right...)?

Thanks,
-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

UPDATE:

Yesterday I wet out to Petco. I bought some liquid ferts (Labeled PLANT GRO), some more food (ran out), some water conditioner, and a great find were some mopani chunks made for a terranium but the fish manager said that if i boiled them they would be fine (the company also makes mopani for terraniums/aquariums so i figured it was just the left over chunks that got broken off). anyways i got two little bags for a $1.20 a piece. i bolde them to gt them leached and water logged and let them cool them put them in. I also put in the crypts from my 10g. I movedmy khuli loaches (5 or 6) and all my endlers into there too. I am planning on getting some cherry whrimp within the next week or two and then just focus on planting from there on. I need to find a good LFS that carries quality plants as most of the ones out here dont or sell them for astronomical prices. well thats all for now. Pics to come when a camera is retrieved.

Thanks,
Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

I ended up winning the auction and will soon have 30 Cherry Shrimp in my tank.

Here's the scoop:
I put 5 khuli Loaches in from my 10g
I put an unknown number of enders in from my 10g
I have 30 cherry shrimp coming in about a week and a half (so long as i post the payment on time!)

I have since done nothing to the tank and it sits. I feed daily a pinch of flakes. I eventually plan to take out half of the female endlers and put them into another tank for breeding purposes. I plan to separate and breed a stronger and more pure strain with the ones I have. (a bit digressed)

still lookingfor some crypt species at LFS, but none carry them currently. THey seem to only have common and rugged cheaper plants ATM.

Sorry not much new info, but every little bit counts right?

Thanks,
Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Question: WHen planting from pots is it best to try yo remove the rock wool, or just leave it on? I have read differing opinions in other threads and from plants sellers. Some say the rock wool carries bacteria and nutriets that are good and will help establish the roots better. Other say that the rock wool is useless and crowds the roots and prevents them from growing outward.

The rock wool isn't exactly useless as it give the plants something to root into while being stored in pots while for sale. I think the plants grow much better in the substrate and the rock wool just makes a mess once it is unpotted and in the tank. I have also noticed that the roots do not look as healthy when they have been potted as the do when they have been grown in the substrate of my tank.

Just my $0.02....take it for what it is worth...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

With the rock wool it can be a real stinker getting it out of the roots with damaging them too much
I run them under a warm water tap (about same temp as tank) I pick the wool out with a tooth pick and a very fine pair of tweezers.

What I also do (shock horror) to some I trim the roots of any damaged pieces, this only encourages more side shoots from that root. Then I float them in the tank for at least two weeks, this helps the roots establish to the new tank water. The leaves might curl in a little dont worry as when you plant them they will straighten up again and it can take a few weeks.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

does having them float allow for the plant to acclimate better? I've heard of people doing this but never really understood the purpose or, well, the science or practicality of it. to me it makes the tank look unorganized and in disarray.

I agree, rots do grow better in substrate, its just for plants like dwarf baby's tears, I can pick out all of the rock wool then replant every little stem into the substrate. so what i did was cut off the bottom of the rock wool (about 1/2 of the rock wool) them used the remainder to help hold down the plant. it doesn't seem to be getting worse, but i also see little improvement or growth. I planted the rest of the plants straight away into the substrate, although if need be they can be up rooted and floated (although at this state that would seem silly). I am going to go get some more plants today (LFS supposedly got some new ones in so I'm going to go look). I also think I might get some large granite rocks to place in the tank to creat more of a hardscape (eventually they will get covered in moss and some algae so it'll look nice...)

one thing i noticed this morning. was that since I went out last night and my parents forgot to turn the lights off for me i now have a diatom (brown) bloom on the glass and i think in the water. How should I approach this? I am thinking 10-25% WC.

Thanks guys,
Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

FIRST buy a good timer it will be the best investment ever only buy a quality one. All you require is a simple 24hr timer one off and one on easy to set and forget its that simple.

Floating plants I cannot remember if I picked this up or started trying it all I know is it works. What is possibly does is the plant is in shock/stress(and this does happen in the plant world) by floating the plant you are not putting the plant into more shock by replanting in a totally different situation, you are doing it in basically two steps establishing the roots to feeding first then replanting them. If I move the Crypt around and have to trim the roots I usually let them float for only a few days.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

oh i understand that every organism goes through shock and acclimation. I just wasnt sure that the replanting would really be a huge shock if its from one tank to another with close parameters. I assume this method is best for purchased and/or pruned/trimmed plants. Although it would seem that the roots would be more adept to like being replanted as the substrate shold have more nutrients in it than the water has in it. I have not yet had a chance to stop by the LFS. I will try for a run tomorrow if time alotts.


Thanks for all of the help you have given,
-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

No luck yet on anything at the LFS, all they got was some elodea and some hornwort...

It seems that my tank has a bloom of Brown Diatoms and I think I will go get an otto or SAE to take care of that soon. I am also getting Green spots on my crypts and some on the glass. Another oddity is there is some sort of algae growing on my DW. Its envoloping some of the unleaved JAva fern rhizomes and I am concerned it will emaciate them and lead to their rotting and death so an SAE or Otto is on the way to clear things up... also I cracked my 10g while cleaning it out to rescape and etc, so i have to go out and get another one to move the endlers out and some tetras in...

Thats it for now,
HAPPY THANKSGIVING...
-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

I bought three true flying foxes at Petco to take care of the algae problem but they seem not too interested in the algae and just pick arround the tank. So i think that a fast is in store to aid in the algae's apeal to them!

I also saw but did not yet buy a small rainbow fish. I thought that they were a smaller species but it was hard to tell because the fins had no color and the eyes were just blue. They looked similar to this:
http://www.fishbase.org/images/thumbnails/jpg/tn_Pscon_u0.jpg
but I cannot tell because the fins are not colored nor is the body. If I get a chance I'll drop in to take a pict and ask. I am considering them (if they stay small) to be a replacement for a tetra in this tank.

SO far so good. the tank is at 70-72 degrees F and the endlers are populating the tank well. I see some great fry developing! Soon though I will be out of this tank and into another. as they need their own tank (I'm considering a 20g breeder for them with a 10g filter and a powerhead to keep the water movement with a substrate of a fired clay I read... plans for that to come at a later date....)

Well any input would be greatly appreciated!
-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Five weeks into this:
The plants are finally rooting well. I was going to thin out and disperse my wendetii crypt, but after a gentle pull of it i found it to be well rooted and figured it best to leave it be. In stead I up rooted the Lutea Crypt and dipsered small clumps throughout the foreground attempting for an eventual equal coverage and thicket of crypts. I do plan to buy more plants for the tank, but what I have now i growing very well. The seemingly bare rhizomes of windelov and java fern I planted attached to the drift wood are now growing leaves and beginning to spread out and cover the wood. The poor suffering anubias Lancelot keeps becoming covered in algae, probably due to excess nutrients and light, but a couple CAE's bought yesterday will do the trick and keep the tank clean until the permanent residents settle in. Unfortunately all of the dwarf baby's tears melted/rotted/died and I had to remove what i could find. I also moved the two remaining flying foxes to the 29gallon because they weren't doing much for the algae and i think they are cute and nice little active foragers...
The CAE's will do their part in algae control until I get my Red Cherry Shrimp in the mail after Christmas. I am also geting as a consolation to the sellers desire to wait till after Christmas to post, A few Crystal Red Shrimp. I am not yet sure the grade or quality, but excited to get a few of these to experiment with, and for free!!!

I am currently planning a 20g breeder tank for the Endlers as a gift to my father (He'll keep it in his office at work). I am thinking thin layer of sand or large pebbles and drift wood covered in anubias, java fern, and moss. Another thread will probably emerge for that one though when the time comes...

Yesterday I bought three female Mosquito fish to breed with my Endler hybrids and male mosquito fish. They will later be moved out doors once winter passes to reduce the risk of west nile disease in the area... plus I can resell babies to the LFS for some extra

The tan is doing very well and the occupants are thriving! the khuli loaches and endlers and new CAEs are just excellent, sadly they will not all remain together. Once the Shrimp come the Endlers and CAEs are out and some small rainbows or some other small and active fish will enter the tank to maintain attraction and possibly a bit of population control.

Another thing is that some how there are baby water striders on the top of the water. I have had them before but never knew what they were until a few weeks ago I opened a tub I put some old gravel in (needed to be cleaned and reused) and a few adults popped out. It was interesting to see them but I'm wondering if they will harm the fish or just provide a nice natural snack...

Thanks for reading!
Feedback PLEASE!!!!

-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

When I got the two discus (referenced in my other threads), I also got two neon tetras. They went in this tank.

on wednesday i did a bit of redecorating and also got a shipment of cherry and yellow shrimp. There is approximatley 40 of them in total. I also moved the endlers in with the discus until i get a new 10gallon tank as the one i had prior cracked during a cleansing. The shrimp are doing fine as far as i know (i left toen after setting them to float and had my older brother take care of them until i get back from the mountains.

pictures to come when i get my camera battery in the mail because the new one was defective.

Thanks,
-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Hmm the lack of interest in my thread is kinda depressing but i guess the lack of pictures in my posts doesnt help (camera I got for xmas was faulty so I had my parents return it for an ipod)...

as of late the shrimp have settled in nicely and the neons/CAE are keeping the cycle and producing some waste for my plants.

I just bought a C. Lucens and C. Wendetii Brown for the tank.

A few of the female cherries have been in berry so soon i should be seeing young if the over powering filter doenst consume them (it will be moved and replaced with an air driven filter once I build/buy the new larger tank for the discus).

The current stocking is:
2 CAE
2 Neon Tetras
30+ Cherry & Yellow Shrimp
unknown amount of java/windelove budding rhizomes
1 anubias lancelata (sp?) which seems to be doing better
a large unknown crypt
6 small c. Lutea
1 Large c. Wendetii "Bronze"
1 Medium c. Lucens
Java Moss
2 Dwarf Onions (Budding)
some Apon. Bulbs
A few Dwarf Nymphea Hybrid Bulbs

The tank is doing well and it is apparently a good fit for the plants and shrimp. I will soon buy about 5 more Neons to complete the school and make them a bit more happy.

Thanks for reading if you did,
Replies/Criticism is always helpful:
-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"

Brandeeno

Just to let you know I still check your topics.

Now for some constructive criticisms.
Crypts are funny creatures "some" and I stated some are totally incompatible with each other at close range and by that I mean is if there are two or more varieties of Crypts trying to establish them selves in a close confined area the stronger of the group will actually take over and kill the weaker plant/s. This possibly comes from a survival mode when in the wild.
When you are wanting some help with aquascaping a photo is a must. Get some one with a camera to take some photos for you. Question do you know how to take photos an Aquarium can be one of the most difficult things to take? A professional photographer told me after I asked him for a few tips on taking fish tanks. "WITH GREAT DUIFFICULTY". If you are not sure go to PHOTO BOOTH

Now for the fish a CAE would not be the best choice there I would strongly suggest SAE as they will help with the algae and not damage the tetras.
Now for the Tetras get Cardinal Tetras you will find that they will be a stronger fish (health-wise) have a greater & strong colour also have a longer life span.
I have a lot of Cardinals in with my Cherry Red Shrimps and they get along fantastically with each other.

Java Moss to me it is a weed and a stinker as far as I am concerned to remove it can get every where and actually stop some water movement around the bases of the Crypts
For ferts I only use Seachem liquids and their Tabs and my Crypts have never looked better.

I hope all this helps you

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Hi,
I've been reading along as this project grows.
Just a couple of comments to tuck under your hat for the
future.

Plant acclimation.
Whenever you physically move a plant, be it within the
tank, between tanks, or across town, the plant has to
re-acclimate to its new bed and tank.
Removing it breaks off roots and the fine root hairs
which have to grow back.
Generally this acclimation means that the larger, older,
leaves will turn yellow and die off while the plant grows
new replacement leaves. During this process of growing
roots and new leaves, the plant will use its stored reserves of nutrients.

Potted plants.
The fiber that the plants are potted in is designed to
provide something for the seed to root into. The pots are
set into a trough through which a hydroponic solution is
circulated. The pot is immersed in the water and the
water saturates the fiber. Once the plant is grown, and
sold, you should, under running tap water that is the same
temperature as the tank, remove the plant from the pot and
tease the fiber away from the plant's roots. Some roots
will be broken off in the process, but the plant will
recover. Remove all the roots that are not white. Healthy
roots are white and firm. Brown and black roots are dying
or dead.
If you float the plant in your tank, in the pot, you
will release excess nutrients into the tank and that will
frequently cause outbreaks of algae. Additionally, any
disease or encysted parasite that accompanies the plant
or is in the fiber will get loose in your tank.

If you plant the plant in the substrate with the fiber
then you also release the excess nutrients and the plant
will seem to melt due to being root bound. The chances
are that the plant may, or may not successfully acclimate
to your tank and grow as it will have to "break out" of the
fiber and send roots out into the substrate to begin
drawing nutrients from the tank. Later, should you finally
move the plant again, you will find the fiber has become
a black smelly (hydrogen sulfide) mess. If that should
occur, vacuum the substrate and the area around the site
and do a large 50% + water change.

Allelopathy.
This was touched on by Keith in his last post.
Plants give off chemicals, called alleochemicals that are
designed to safe guard the plant from being eaten by
fish, insects, to ward of disease, and to prevent them from
being over run by other species of plants.
If you can find a copy of Diana Walstad's ECOLOGY of the
PLANTED AQUARIUM (vol 1 or 2) you will find this subject
covered on several pages throughout the book.

I would personally recommend these books and go so far as
to say that they should be mandatory reading for anyone
who wants a healthy green planted aquarium.

Hope this helps...
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the responses guys. I did remove all (or most) of the bloody rock wool. I plan on monitoring the plants and watching to make sure that they rather root themselves efficiently and not work against each other. I did get some seachem fert tablets (under gravel sort) and posted those at various sites around the plants to give them purpose in expanding their roots as well as improve their nutrient levels. I had been using some cheap variety that my LFS purchases wholesale and later repackages and sells, but they didnt seem to be helping much. I use a liquid fert called "PLANTGRO" I've been using it a while with some effect although if I truly wanted my crypts to flourish i would add flourish and CO2.

I do not "float" the plants very often because the strong current in the tank either gets them stuck to the intake or the end up floating above the water line and I dont like protruding leaves that have previously been submersed.

I will try to borrow my sister's camera and take some good picts of the tank and post them up for you to see! although she is a bit of a snob so no telling what she will say. thanks for the replies and I will be sure to track down Walstad's book or at least look up the information you recommend I read.

PS the CAE are only there to finish removing algae off one of the larger plants then they will be off on their merry way to my dad's 10g and popped around other tanks to get rid of algae as a last minute natural alternative.

I am considering setting up a 10g and moving the shrimps and about half of the plants to it to make the bayfront a kribs breeding tank 9my dad has a M/F pair in a 10g with some fish that are not compatible so it would be nice as they can also eat some of the pesky and recently over populating endler/molly fry.

Thanks,
-Brandon

\\\\\\\"an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of the cure\\\\\\\"