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I have an ADA ammazonia substrate in the new tank, set up 21.07.08. The filters had been cycling for months on an established tank, prior to the day the tank was filled. The tank itself was set up as a terrarium for 2 months, which according to a method promoted by Tom Barr (a planted tank guru from US) where it is meant to build up the good bacteria on the tank substrate, glass, plants etc during the waterless period, thus be fully cycled by the time filled.

I filled the tank & tested for ammonia & found it present, so presumed I had killed the good bacteria while the filters were off for a a period of time while I was setting up my UV's.

Initially I added 3 prawns, then another 2 prawns.

After a few days, the tank was smelling really bad, plus I remembered that ADA soil leaches heaps of ammonia all by itself, so I removed the prawns on day 3 (maybe 4 - not sure exactly).

Ammonia reached 0 today, for the 1st time (Day 10).

Yesterday (Day 9) was the 1st day I tested for Nitrite & it was 1.0ppm (or less). Today, it is 0ppm. There's not the slightest trace of pink in the test water.

I now wish I'd tested for nitrite earlier, but had not expected the nitrite to start showing up until my ammonia started dropping. I expected a much higher spike in nitrite (eg 5ppm) before the tank cycled.

Below are my test results, up to & including today.

Day 1: 21.07.08 Ammonia: 0.25
Day 2: 22.07.08 Ammonia: 1.00
Day 3: 23.07.08 Ammonia: 2.00
Day 4: 24.07.08 Ammonia: 2.00
Day 5: 25.07.08 Ammonia: 2.00
Day 9: 29.07.08 Ammonia: 0.25ppm Nitrite: 1.0ppm
Day 10: 30.07.08 Ammonia: 0.00ppm Nitrite: 0.0ppm

I'm wondering if something has gone wrong & that my cycle somehow stalled & failed - or is it possible it has cycled & I missed the nitrite spike by not testing for it early enough.

I'm going to rush down & buy one prawn now, while shop's still open & dump that in the tank.

But wondering what the experts here think?

EDIT: Tank is planted

Cheers
TW

*not an expert* just giving from my own experience with a planted tank. my plants were at the lfs with some fish hanging about them so i believe they had the bacteria on them before putting them in my tank. so after asking around a bit on here, i decided to force it into a cycle. i was putting in ammonia every day for like a week and never got a huge spike in nitrites and usually the ammonia was clearing rather quickly. right before i did my final water change for about 2-3 days i'd pop the ammonia up to about 2-3ppm just to see if it would clear in 24 hours.. then i knew my tank was ready. so i'm under the belief that in a plant established tank you may not get a huge spike.
hope that helps but like i said i'm not a real expert.
there is also an article about cycling with planted tanks but i have forgotten where i saw it. i'm sure you can google it though.

Hi lsburton

Thanks for quick reply

I realised that somehow, I missed telling you what tests were for day 6, 7 & 8. Those results are now included below.

Day 1: 21.07.08 Ammonia: 0.25ppm
Day 2: 22.07.08 Ammonia: 1.00ppm
Day 3: 23.07.08 Ammonia: 2.00ppm
Day 4: 24.07.08 Ammonia: 2.00ppm
Day 5: 25.07.08 Ammonia: 2.00ppm
Day 6: 26.07.08 Ammonia: 2.00ppm
Day 7: 27.07.08 Ammonia: 1.00ppm
Day 8: 28.07.08 Ammonia: 0.25ppm
Day 9: 29.07.08 Ammonia: 0.25ppm Nitrite: 1.0ppm
Day 10: 30.07.08 Ammonia: 0.00ppm Nitrite: 0.0ppm

Nitrate tests today somewhere between 5ppm - 10ppm, but I don't know if that really means too much, as my tap water tests at the exact same level & that's pretty normal for my tap water.

I have been regularly adding a bio starter (cycle).

We used to be able to get pure ammonia here, but no-one can seem to find it anymore. The rumour is that it is an ingredient in bomb making (have no idea if it's true - maybe catdancer "the mad scientist" can answer that one. We can only get cloudy ammonia, which foams when shaken & though no ingredients listed, we think it has detergent added. Otherwise, I'd do like you - but instead that's what the dead prawn is meant to be doing, but it's a pretty in exact way to do it.

I'm wondering if it has cycled without a big nitrite spike, but trying to do the best I can to be certain.

Thanks for your help.

Still interested in hearing any other opinions.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
From the readings, I'd say that Yes, the tank has cycled.
I'd be curious about the nitrate reading, but with the
0/0 readings of the ammonia and nitrite, I'd say its
cycled.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I am also no expert but it looks like it has settled down but personally I would wait a few more days just to be on the safe side. I would also take a good water sample to your LFS and get it tested as well and compare your own tests from the same sample.

Remember when adding fish to the tank do it slowly.
Also add a measured amount of the good bacteria at every water change this helps in keeping the goood bacteria in its original state. At the moment I am using Seachem Stability it is not cheap but can be bought on line.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Hi keithgh & Frank,

Nitrate was between 5-10ppm. Doesn't mean too much, as that's the same as what comes straight out of my tap.

I've decided I think it's cycled & once I came to that decision, I didn't want to leave it empty without anything feeding the good bacteria. So, last night 2 cardinal neons & 2 harley rasboras went in & this morning, after making sure of tests & that all was ok with the sensitive cardinals, 1 discus was added.

I know the rasboras should be in a larger school, but they're the last survivors from an original batch purchased 2yrs ago & I don't want any more. The cardianals will be upped. They were a test to make sure my discus wouldn't eat them (and they haven't). Discus are said to act all innocent during the day & to hunt tetra's at night. Then in the morning, they pretend they know nothing about it (sneaky discus). I've been lucky - but I did grow these 2 cardinals up in a tank on their own until I thought them big enough.

As already discussed briefly with Frank in this tank's log, I was told by a vet / hobbyist that the tank's benefical bacteria roughly doubles every 24-48hrs. So, I will wait around 2 days and then add another discus, continuing in this pattern until they have all moved across.

Thank you to you all for your opinions

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,
I sort of expected you to add the discus to the tank
in pairs at least, rather than one at a time. Singly
does not encourage the first one to lord it over the
following ones as "King of the castle?"
On the other hand, with large fish, they can put out
large amounts of waste. Putting in several of them
could cause the tank to mini-cycle which is something
you don't want to happen.

Just curious...
I bow to your expertise in this.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

benefical bacteria roughly doubles every 24-48hrs.

I think that should say it mutates its self and by doing that over a short period of time "one week" it is not the exact same good bacteria, that is the main reason for adding a good Bio Starter such as Seachem Stability at every water change.
When I had the massive mini cycle caused by a water supply problem it was the only product that saved my tank.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

sort of expected you to add the discus to the tank
in pairs at least, rather than one at a time. Singly
does not encourage the first one to lord it over the
following ones as "King of the castle?"
On the other hand, with large fish, they can put out
large amounts of waste. Putting in several of them
could cause the tank to mini-cycle which is something
you don't want to happen.

hmmm, I know one discus isn't happy all on his own & he does seem to be sulking.
I was worried about 2 discus being too much at once, so had intended to add another one tomorrow. Do you think this is a wrong move & the another should go in now?

The rasboras & cardinals are having a ball though. The cardinals colour looks better than ever.

Hi keithgh

I'm no scientist myself, only can say that this vet, who is also a hobbyist & successful breeder seems very knowledgeable on scientific things, especially to do with fish (his passion). He sees to know what he is talking about and that's what he has said.

But in any case, I do add cycle & my water is aged a week before using.

Thanks to both of you once again for your advice.

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,
Refresh my memory... How big is this tank and how many
and how large are the discus going into it? You would
know how sensitive the fish are to the various elements
that make up their water chemistry (pH, GH, KH,
ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate).
If you think that they have enough mass to make
a difference, then I'd go with one or two at a time.
Since you have already put the one in, what has
happened to the ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate?
If nothing has happened to the ammonia and nitrite,
then I would think it safe to add another two or
three to make an even number.
Then wait a bit and add another pair.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank

Tank is 7ft long & holds 138G. Ammonia & Nitrate still test at 0.

I have an additional 6 discus to put in. 4 of them are medium sized adults & 2 are adults but I think they are stunted, so they are small.

I will add one of the stunted discus now, instead of waiting till tomorrow morning (which would have been 48hrs). After that I might add my smaller fish (a couple of apisto pairs, ottos & corries) & then the balance of the discus, with 48hrs between each addition.

I always have the old tank ready to accept them all back, if I strike problems, as naturally it will need to be kept running throughout the whole transfer process anyway.

What do you think? Any preference as to the order of addition of the smaller fish?

Thanks, Robyn

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,
No, I think I agree with your assessment.
For 138 gallons, you really don't have much of anything
in the tank (bio-load wise) hence the initial low
ammonia and nitrite readings. After your small fish you
might hold off (while regularly testing) for a bit and
see if things remain the same and then add a couple of
more discus.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--