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Ive been using my master test kit to check my levels, nitrates, nitrites, and ammonia levels are at 0ppm but my PH is between 6.0 to 6.4, By a guess I'd say it's more like 6.1 but the kit isn't quite that specific!

I have some PH up which came with the kit though I've heard mixed things about using it.

Is there any other way to raise and keep my PH at a stable level before it causes any damage. (I also hear low PH ain't goodand can affect other parametres later on).

Hi,
Before you start adjusting the pH, have you double checked
your test kit by comparing your results with another?
Try taking a water sample to your LFS and see if they
come up with the same or near same values.
What is the pH of your tap water? Draw a glass and let
it set overnight, untouched, and then test it. Is it the
same, or similar results to that of your tank?

Tell us about your tank, How old is it? How often do you
do water changes AND vacuum the gravel. You could have
what is called OTS.
http://www.bestfish.com/oldtank.html

What fish are you keeping in the tank, and do you have
other tanks - Same readings?

We need to figure out the cause/source of the low pH water
before trying to "fix" the problem.
Is it the kit?
Is it the source (tap water)
Is it poor maintenance?
Is it isolated to one tank?

To raise the pH, you can add carbonate rocks to the tank.
Limestone, coral, dolomite will all change the pH (increase
it). This will also increase the hardness.

You can buffer the water (What is your KH?) by adding
baking soda to the tank water. This will increase your
KH and raise the pH.

Lastly, with this being your summer, Down Under, water
shortages cause the water treatment plants to add chemicals
to the water to make it safe for the two legged creatures
and that's not always good for our tanks. FP has been
filled with questions coming from there about water and
water born problems. Folks like Keith, Babelfish, Callatya,
and others, can be of assistance and are probably
more able to help.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I've tested it with 2 seperate kits, one time I bought a solo PH set before the master. Both looked very similar, almost complete yellow (6.0) but not quite.

I've tested water right from the tap, it usually comes in at 6.4-7 on differant days or so but I'll leave one overnight to check out =)

My tank would be 3 months old by now. Give or take a week or two. I do one to two water changes per week and am planning to test my water weekly (had it LFS checked every 2 weeks prior).

I vacuum the gravel once per week one side at a time.

Fish in the tank are:

60Ls of water:

1 BN catfish - Fully grown female
1 Mystery Snail
4 Tetra - Gloweye (3 adults + 1 small baby that survived)
2 Guppy - Both male
1 Ram - Golden ram I beleive

Also have an assortment of plants though i don't think they'd cause any negative impact. Mainly pennywort, a crypt and 2 grassy ones (I forget the names exactly...)

I know it's an awkward assortment of fish at the very moment, it was a combination of two smaller tanks added slowley fish by fish.

Hope I've answered everything I can at the moment I'll let you know tomorrow about the glass thing =)

Im not sure if any of this impacts but on every change I add bottled bacteria and a water condioner additonally.

The filter is a HOB with carbon.

Am I correct in saying the PH is basically the same from the tap as it is in the tank?

If I measured my tap PH once a week I would go crazy its all over the place but mainly alkaline and for years I have been using a PH buffer. It can vary during the day as well. Some where I have read that the PH can vary during the day in a tank. That one is for Frank to answer
As far as I know every thing is working I have healthy fish and two tanks full of healthy live plants.
I think I have asked you this before where are you in Aust. You do not have to give the suburb or city just a general area. This will help a lot. It does vary a lot in Aust.
Our particular area the water is extremely bad but 20 klm away it is also bad but their water is drawn from a local different dam/pumping station.
At the moment who knows what they are putting in the water.
At the moment I have to boil all my drinking water and I take the tank water from a very hot instantaneous water service before I store it for a week.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

well rams like a lower ph like between 5.0 and 7.5 the plecos like it bettween 5.8 and 7.0 the tetras are probly around the same but the lower ph thats better for ur fish is bad for ur snail because the acidity(spelling?) will can destory the shell. but thats what i have heard.

It's mainly for my snail that I do worry about the PH. His shell does have some slight weak points but overall it's still looking healthy, can't say I'm willing to lose that.

I've tested my overnight cup of water, it's PH is sitting at somewhere just above 6.4 I think, colors almost but not quite 6.4.

So unless I use a PH up weekly I'm not sure where abouts I can find some coral or limestone.

I've seen 'A' kind of stone at my LFS but it's big and white and doesn't come with what it is...really should ask

By the way how does my fishtanks stocking sound? I do worry about it getting overcrowded but at the moment all residents are getting along nicely. I'd love to add another Ram friend to my little girl for balance sake but not at the risk of an unbalanced bioload.

Hi,

I've tested my overnight cup of water, it's PH is sitting at somewhere just above 6.4 I think, colors almost but not quite 6.4.

This means that the tank is only slightly more acidic than
your tap water, which is normal. As waste products decay
in the tank they create organic acids which would further
lower your pH. PH UP would work, but that will mean that
you will enter into the cycle of constantly purchasing
that product using it up, and repurchasing it.

You can accomplish the same thing by using any carbonate
rock either as your substrate or as decorations within
the tank, or using the crushed form in a HOB filter.
Crushed dolomite, crushed limestone, or crushed coral
would work as the substrate, or placed in the output of
the filter. Or you could make caves, etc. of pieces of
limestone, dolomite, or coral. You could use the water
changes to keep your pH steady by changing a given amount
(percentage) each week.
If you do not know of a quarry in your area, check with
any company that does landscaping as they will have
tons of rock laying around for that purpose. Since you
only want a couple or so pounds of the rock, they will
generally give away the fragments, which would be perfect
for hardscaping your tank. Just about any LFS will carry
crushed limestone, crushed dolomite, or crushed coral
it just be more expensive than purchasing regular gravel
for the tank.

You are correct as was the other writer, in that you need
the water not to be too acid for the snail(s) to have
healthy, strong, shells. Kinda like humans who need milk
to build strong bones (Calcium) so too do snails need
the Calcium and other minerals to build their shells.
I would not let the pH get below 6.8 for the snail's health
and actually it should be 7.0 and above for optimum.

Generally "Mystery Snails" are another name for the
"Apple Snail."
Check out this site for everything you might want to know
about these snails, in particular, check out the "care"
part of this site:
http://www.applesnail.net/

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

well i would make the tank better for the fish and sell the snail or give it away. the thing im saying is ur fish dont like the higher end of the ph scale and will stress them out if its to high.

Well no way am I moving my snail away, he's been a tough old chap for some time so improving my PH is the way to go!
I got some crushed coral, has calcium in it so I've been told to add it gradually and keep an eye on my hardness. My test kit, for a master kit =P, does not test for calcium or hardness (are they the same test kit?) though, would it be worth investing in a sereperate kit that's specific to reading those values?

(Sorry to go on a tangent, but my smaller betta tank has had a pest for some time now, it's the flatish pure white and kinda oval shaped snail and I have no idea how to eliminate this pest. It's a 6 gal tank split in the middle so it houses 2 bettas so if there's any links on how to work that out or ID it I'd appreciate it)

Hi,
The kits that you might want to pick up are the ones
for KH and GH. KH tests the "Carbonate Hardness" which
is the buffering capacity of the water. It tests for the
amount of CO3 in the water. The other test kit, the GH
tests for the General Hardness of the water and this kit
checks for the concentration of the Calcium (Ca) and
Magnesium (Mg) in the water.

You would want your KH to run around a "4", more is
generally a waste, and less means that small amounts
of acids will make a larger change in the pH.
To me, the KH is the more important function that you
should be testing. If you use only baking soda to adjust
the KH, then it will only affect the pH (raising it).
With the carbonates that you added, the crushed coral,
that will raise the GH and the KH (to some extent).

The best you describe sounds like this critter:
http://library.thinkquest.org/J001418/limpet.html

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Do they come in the same kit or are they seperate? I know I've seen a GH kit somewhere, and calcium test strips, can't recall KH but I'll look further into that. Test kits are suprisingly expensive! XD but bit by bit it's definantly something I want for the health of my fish.

And dang, how do I deal with those lil guys? Because thats definantly what they are. It sounds almost cute, and at least it isn't as big an eye sore as a pond snail
Any idea if they're worth 'wiping out' or just managing nubmbers? I mean they eat algae but dang, I do not want one to grow to 10 cms!

If you can get one of the small loaches it will eat all those snails very quickly
I have had that problem in my 45lt tank and very small Clown Loach cleaned it up in just over a week its not only the snails its all the eggs and baby snails you cannot see. When the CL was a bit bigger it went straight into the 5ft tank and he has continued to grow with all the other CLs.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Don't think I can unless it is one heck of a small loach ^^; it is my 6 gallon tank, split in half, with a betta each side.
And I do have my 60l tank but i think it is quite stocked as well.

hey frank,just wondering why you said to leave the cup of water overnite then test it,why is this?

Hi,
This is a normal caution for taking water samples here
in the States. The idea is that waiting allows the
cup of water to degas. It allows the chlorine to escape
as well as other gasses which can affect the tests.
In essence it allows the water to "settle down" before
testing.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

So far a small handful has raised my PH almost to 6.4 overnight. So up by .3

I was wondering, I have added an extra small handful but is this slow release as in it may take a few days to kick in?

And I am yet to see it's affect on my water hardness as I will be getting that kit come tomorrow.

Also I just tested some day old water I plan to use on my tank and it has a reading of 7.6 =/

With pH changes, the slower the better. If you bring it up too quickly then you risk pH shock. Remember that the scale is logarhithmic so the increase between 6.1 and 6.2 etc is greater than it seems.

I use crushed oyster shells (bagged in the filter) in my cray/snail tanks, and that seems to work quite well.

Out of curiosity, are you having pH related issues showing in the fish? Do you have anything in the tank that is adding tannins (driftwood, blackwater, dead plant matter)?

Just go *really* slowly. This is one of those things that you should not try and fix all in one shot, especially if all of the fish and creatures were content at the existing level.
pH shock is not pretty and most people will tell you that the wrong pH is usually tolerable providing it is kept stable. While 6.1 is quite low, you don't want to bounce it up to a "normal" 7.2 or whatever in a short period of time because the fish will have trouble adjusting and you can cause them damage in the effort to correct the problem. If it takes a month or so, that is much better than having it bounce up overnight or within a week. The snail will cope, just feed him on some higher calcium foods in the meantime

I'm interested in how you got 7.6, where had that water been stored? Did it have the crushed coral added?

Don't worry about the limpets, they are great for algae control and love to eat your diatoms. Any attempts to poison them (old pennies in the tank seem to work well) will wipe out your snail also. I've never had a problem with them myself, but if you do not like them you can just crush them against the glass and let the bettas eat them.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Add a cuttlefish to the tank. Just dig one end in the gravel to hold it down. You will be amazed how much of it a mystery snail can put away.

My pH from the tap is rainwater 6. TDS is so pure its 10.
I usually add a 1/4 teaspoon of bicarb soda and 1/4 epsoms salts to each 10 or 20ltr bucket just to bring it up a bit.
Most of my fish at low pH loving catfish.

Of course for my african cichlids they get a whole lot more plus rocksalt, or if I am feeling generous a cichlid salts mix.

So if I buy a bag of cuttlefish, give it a good scrub, its safe to pop in as snail food?

Would that also raise my PH?
With the slow addidtion of the crushed stuff and via waterchanges, my PH is sitting at 6.4

And I'm not too sure how the water got to 7.6. It went through the same treatment as my other buckets and theyre also given a rinse n a wipe after use if I used it to store anything else.

Maybe it's because I tested it right away, usually I leave my treated buckets overnight before use.

As for the limpets they are and always have been soley in the betta tank. Ive been cautious to take care in having them no transfer to my other tank =) each tank has its own sponges and the like, only thing they share is the gravel cleaner which is well cleaned after each use and left to dry until it's needed again.

Just a guess, but the article Frank linked to you, said the limpets move about at night to feed. Then, return to their "home spot" by morning, safely anchoring themselves into place. Is there a way you can blacken the room enough for them to go in search of food, then you snag 'em? It's possible I didn't understand the article, but it's just a stab at it.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}