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I don't know what Chloramine is. Is that another form of chlorine?

And I'll check with the fish guy on Sunday when I pick up the new fish regarding Stress Coat. Everyone seems to recommend it though.


Edit:

OK, so I looked at the bottle of Amquel + and it says that it removes Nitrates, Nitritres, Ammonia, Chloramines, and Chlorines.

I hope that covers everything.

Ya, chloramine is (if I remember right!) chlorine and ammonia? It's used a lot in the larger cities in addition to chlorine. When I was living near DC you could smell the chlorine just from turning the tap on

So yes, your fine for your water treatment, just be sure you use it every time you add water.


^_^

Oh, interesting. And yeah, I don't live in the city itself, but my water (and most of the northern quarter of my state) gets its water from the same source, and that means lots of water treatment. My refrigerator uses a Culligan filter system for the ice and water it dispenses if that tells you anything, lol.

And yeah, so far, even without having any fish in the tank, I've been using the Amquel + and the Stress Coat + each time I do a water change. Though, I'll ask the fish guy on Sunday when I pick up the fish, what his opinion of Stress Coat is. He's very knowledgeable, and I read the bio on his site and his store apparently has been certified by the Marine Aquarium Council, so I am assuming that's a big badge of honor, and that makes me feel more secure in buying fish from them. And they've done really big projects for big companies, so that's another thing to trust them with. I'm assuming they know their stuff, lol.

And you should have seen the store! I could have EASILY spent ALL DAY in it!

Heh I've seen stores like thta , Adam and I made a trip to That Fish Places store after we went to Intercourse (PA, no I'm not giving out too much information ) they had a touch tank and everything!

I think stress coat is one of those products that some people swear by, personally I've used once, and I never found it that beneficial, and didn't continue to use it. Others you may find swear by it. I feel good acclimation procedures any time you move a fish, even between tanks in your own house is the most important thing.


^_^

*sigh*

Well, I went to the fish store today, eager to get my gold longfin danios to start the tank and see if they'd fare well, but when the guy did the water sample, the test showed that while the PH level is good, the nitrites and the ammonia are still a little high (0.25 for both, and they need to be 0) so he wouldn't let me get the fish. He said to wait at least another week. So, I'm very bummed. It was agony waiting for this past week to end and wait for today so I could get my new fish.

But it wasn't a complete loss. I got to feed their koi, and that was neat. I got to stick my hand (closed) into the water, and the koi started sucking on my hand and wrist before I gave them the food. It was such a weird feeling, but neat. It felt like a bunch of big, living, suction cups pulling on my skin. I got to pet a stingray too. He felt like a portobella mushroom. Soft, spongy, and slimy.

Then I went and picked up a piece of slate from one of their bulk rock boxes. I decided to add a small piece of slate to the bottom of the tank to make a flat place for the frogs to eat so that the food doesn't fall through the gravel straightaway.

I really can't wait to be able to get my fish.

Oh, and when I got home, I changed the charcoal filter (it was filthy) and I'm hoping this will help the ammonia and nitrates finish clearing up. Then I did a water test of my own to see 1. if I could do the test, and 2. to see if my results matched the store. Well, I successfully did the test, and my results matched the store's. I guess it could have been worse. Instead of the results being 0.25, it could have been much higher, and I'd have to wait even longer. The guy said that the tank seems to be coming along nicely and it should only be another week or two before the nitrites and ammonia finish clearing up. I hope so. This really is agony.

Awww I wanna feed some koi :! We cant actually have them here in queensland since they'd supposedly invade the waterways, like cane toads were a great idea
(annnyway)


yeah, it's hard to wait, but it's the only thing you can do. Do a test once a day either morning or evening, you'll see the ammonia drop first, then the nitrItes. You may have two weeks to go still, it depends on those nitrItes. You are on the right track though .


^_^

Hi Babel,

Yeah, feeding the koi was awesome! They were in this big indoor pond and they were so friendly! Even the Stingray was friendly.

*sigh*

I know. I was thinking it might take another two weeks or more. And the guy told me not to add any fish until that ammonia and nitrites reaches zero because I could more than likely screw up the cycling that's already been completed. He said the fact that it's already down to .25 is good and making progress.

It's just driving me insane is all. I look at the tank, and I literaly see all the fish I want, swimming away in the tank, and darting about, and playing, being all happy.

Oh, and I asked the guy about the Stress Coat, and he swears by it, and I figure that since his store is so reputable, I trust what he says. He hasn't steered me wrong yet!

Stingrays are the best. I'd love a stingray tank, but I don't know if I'd bother to take out their stinger regularly to make them safer to pet... That sounds like a pretty cool fish store if they have a touch tank. I have also been to That Pet Place that Babel talked about; what is it, like the biggest fish store on the east coast? They have a phenomenal selection.

I use stress coat only as a dechlorinator, although supposedly it can also be used (according to its directions) to help acclimate new fish or whatever, which I don't use stress coat for.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Eh if shini's ok with it I'm ok with it.

I think the only time I used it was when I was bringing a stressed/sick/traumatized bala shark home from a used tank I had just bought. They said to use it to acclimate a new fish *shrug* I suppose the stuff cant really be blamed, I doubt the shark would have made it anyway...but I tend to blame the stuff in my mind .

However if you already have amquel+ that you're using for dechlor you don't really need to use both IMO.


^_^

Well, the Stress Coat I was using mainly to help protect the fish since it helps with their slimy coating, etc. The Amquel + is for the ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates.

Stress Coat is used pretty regularly by practically every fish store around here. I have yet to find a store that doesn't use it.

All stress coat really is, is aloe mixed with other natural stuff. Pretty harmless really. But, to each their own. If you're not comfortable with it, then there's no reason you should use it.

OK, forgive the "double" post, but since I'm nearly 24 hours past the last time I posted in this thread, I'm just going to make a new post.

ACK! Did I do something wrong?! I don't think I did, and I'm probably just being paranoid, and I do VAGUELY remember the fish guy telling me this would happen, so I'm probably panicking for nothing, but......

I did the Nitrite and Ammonia testing again, and tonight the numbers are as follows:

Ammonia: 0.00 yay!
Nitrites: 1.00 uh-oh!

Now, on Sunday, the levels for both Ammonia and Nitrites were 0.25... What happened? I mean, I'm very happy the Ammonia is where it's supposed to be, but the Nitrites spiked big time! I suppose it could have been worse and been at 2.50 or higher, but this is still starting to discourage me.

Was this spike supposed to happen or did I mess something up? I have not touched the water in the tank aside from drawing a bit out for both tests, so I don't think I did anything, but I'm still nervous.

Hunt back through the thread to where we posted a link to the cycling process

nitrItes are supposed to spike after ammonia is fully dropped.


aloe =organic matter. Organic matter decomposes. Decomp process = mini cycle. Mini cycle = ammonia and nitrIte stress on fish. Not something I'd be wanting to introduce into my tank when there are fish that are already stressed.

In a normal fully cycled tank they should be able to cope, and following a proper acclimatization procedure they shouldn't need their slime coat stimulated. I always think of it as the equivalent to poking someone with a pin to distract them from a stubbed toe.

It's your choice what you add to your water though, I just hate spending money where I don't have to . In fact I'm going to have to start getting used to adding dechlor at water changes again. For the past year we've been on tank water and havent had to worry about that!


^_^

Well, good to know about the nitrites. I'm glad it's not something I did. Maybe this means I'm that much closer to the tank being fully cycled soon.

I don't know. Everybody around here (my area) seems to support Stress Coat and even the fish store I am going to get my new fish from uses it in their tanks, and the only thing they sell (besides supplies) in their store is fish, so I trust what they say in that regard.

I'm planning to use the Amquel + every time I do a water change as well because it's a dechlorinator and because of where my water comes from, it gets heavily treated with chemicals, mainly chlorine, so that will have to be done every time I do a water change, and I figured out on Sunday that my charcoal/carbon filters will have to be changed every two weeks (I was hoping to be able to push it to every three or four, but seeing what the filter looked like after two weeks, I'm not going to be able to push for the four week holdout). But you should see how clear the water in the tank is now! I was stunned! I don't think I've ever seen water that clear outside of a fish store, lol.

Anyway, thank you. I'm glad to know that my tank is on track regarding the ammonia and nitrites. It would be nice to be able to start putting fish into the tank.

I honestly don't remember ever going through this much trouble for a fish tank before. *sigh* On top of it, I found myself getting really defensive with the friend who's had her fish forever in her ten gallon tank when she commented, "Wow. You really seem to have bad luck. My fish are fine and I've never done what you are doing to your tank... Maybe you're doing something wrong." Like I said, I got really defensive and pissy with her over it. I felt like, "Well, good for you... not everyone can be perfect like you." Didn't say it, but definitely thought it. I know I was probably over-reacting but it just made me mad for her to say that.

ahhh yeaahhh you're going to have trouble with those types of people.

as tempting as it might be to blindfold them and sneak the fish out safely you might not get away with it.

Carbon, ehhhh yeah it's good... it'll depend on how many particles are in the water. So,if your gravel wasn't fully washed it'll end up through your filter. Fish wastes and decomposing leaves ect will come up in your filter. If the filter isn't strong enough for the load of the tank you'll find you'll need to replace the carbon more frequently. Slacking off on water changes can also lead to it. I used carbon a lot at first (yes it does make the water look great!!!) but since going planted I stopped using it (can take a lot of what plants need out of the water). Just be sure that when you change it it's not at the same time that you clean out your sponge or foam. Like any other surface the carbon will grow the bacteria that actually filters the water, removing too many of the bacteria will throw the tank into minicycle.


Ammonia 0
NitrItes 1 (growing) you should see them rise for awhile before they start to fall. Once you've got nitrAtes present, your nitrItes will start to fall and you'll be almost done.

^_^

lol. Yeah, I wanted to hit her.

OK, what sponge/foam??? My tank has the "gravel" the decorations, the biowheel, the tube that sucks the water up to the carbon/charcoal filter which then moves the water to the biowheel, and then pumps the water back into the tank. No sponge or foam here, so I don't know what you mean.

Anyway, my plants are all plastic, so I have no worries about the carbon/charcoal sucking anything from them, lol. I LOVE the plastic plants! So easy to care for! Lol.

And I read through that Cycle page and I think I'm doing everything right (now). I'm doing water testing every other day, and so I am happy to see the ammonia down. Now, like you said, I need to wait for the Nitrites to convert to Nitrates and I'm good to go.

I thought I had enough plants in the tank, but I'm thinking I might get another tall plant for the back (if I can find one that is at least 20" tall) and a couple more short plants. I've been reading up on what the different fish I want need, and I thought I had enough, but I'm starting to think I still need more. If someone could look at the "new" photos I posted in the photo booth and see if what I've got is enough, I'd really appreciate it. I'm very worried I won't have good enough cover for them, and I want them to be happy.

Grrr... OK, so I was redoing the plants and deco in my tank, and I broke the arm off one of my dragons in the process. I took it out, and I'm drying it off and hopefully it will be dry enough tomorrow to repair it with aquarium sealant and then I can return it to the tank on Sunday. In the meantime, I figured out that I need more "stones" for the tank. I thought I had enough, but clearly I don't since I'm having trouble getting some of my plants to "root" in the "gravel."

Gee..... this is turning into such fun.......

If you have larger rocks you might want to take the plants one at a time out of the tank and silicone some of the larger rocks ontop of the bases. They are a bit hard to get to stay put and having gravel deep enough for them can cause debris to collect and cause trouble later. Half our plants are sideways in the tank since I cant reach to the bottom and fix them and the fish just knock them over again!

Oh right biowheel, guess you wouldn't have to worry about that then. Just be sure that if you do swish the wheel in a bucket of used tank water (it'll probably gunk up) you dont do it the same time as replacing the carbon.


^_^

How often should I be "flushing" the biowheel? I thought that once it's in the tank, it shouldn't be messed with. Am I wrong?

As for the deco, no, I don't have large rocks. Just a small piece of slate that I'm hoping the frogs will use as a "dinner plate" so that they don't have to go sifting through the glass stones for food.

I also bought a small thin (almost too thin) "rock" and I let it sit in very hot water for a while and then I rinsed it off in hot water. I then used it to prop up one end of the fake log. That took some doing, and if it hadn't worked I was thinking about using aquarium sealant to glue the log to the "rock" but I was hesitant to do that on the chance that I may want to switch up how I use the log and slate and rock later on. I got the log to prop up on the new rock after all though, so hopefully it won't get knocked over by the fish. I don't think it will. If it does, I'll figure out something else then.

When I get everything set up to my satisfaction (yeah, right, lol) I'll take some pictures and link them here so you can see what the tank looks like now. I'm getting more pleased with the setup and I think the fish will be happy in there (assuming I ever get to the point where I can actually ADD fish... *sigh*)

I also decided that the three new plants I bought today/yesterday aren't enough and I'm planning to go back to the store and get two more short plants. They're on sale, buy one get one free right now, so I'm happy about that.

I figure that this way, there'll be a nice clump for the rams, another clump for the gourami, and a nice small clump for the danios.

And the frogs will have plenty of additional places to hide/dwell, and the loaches will probably burrow in the "gravel," so everyone will potentially have their own space and be happy, peppy little fish/frogs.

OK, I should get some sleep. I have class in about 9 hours, so I'll be getting about 6 and a half hours of sleep...

Well, I bought more "gravel." That seems to have made a world of difference to the plants in the tank. They are sticking better. Except for one plant that I'm going to have to pull out, let dry and glue the d--mned thing to the base to keep the base from popping off anymore.

And with a little bit of trouble, I managed to glue the dragon's arm back on. I'm going to put another band of aquarium sealant around the arm to reinforce what's there so that it doesn't break again. It won't look very pretty, but it shouldn't look too bad once back in the water, which will probably be on Monday.

In the meantime, I'm still waiting for the Nitrites to convert to Nitrates. *sigh*

That final drop of the nitrItes does seem to take ages, it's been a long time since I've fully cycled a tank but I seem to remember it taking aaagggeeesss (I also remember my sis coming downstairs that morning and seeing me do the 'my nitrItes are down' dance )


After a bit of time there should get a small coating of algae over the silicone so it should be less noticeable.

Biowheel, I've never actually used one so I don't know, but I'd figure it'd develop the same growths that appear on other filters and tat needs to be rinsed off. You'll know when it's time. With the wheel it wont' take nearly as much 'cleaning' as with the filters with sponges or floss, just give it a swish when it starts to look clogged.

Ah and don't count on any fish staying where you expect it to, once you are finally able to stock the fish they'll find their own spots and you may find you want to change the tank again


D'oh meant to post this 12 hours ago !


^_^

Lol, thank you Babel. Yeah, I did a water test last night, and it STILL is up in Nitrites. It was a little hard to figure out exactly where the color matched. So much so that I'm guessing it's between two of the points. Somewhere between 1.0 and 2.0. So, it still seems to be climbing, and I keep hoping it goes down SOON because I want my fish.

And yeah, the aquarium sealent seems to have done the trick, although I am a little nervous because of the rubbery texture. It seems to give the mended arm a little more give than I'd like, so while it was drying, I applied more sealent to act like a reinforced brace. Hopefully I'll be able to get it back into the tank tomorrow afternoon.

So, you said it took ages for the nitrites to come down? In my tank it's already been a week. Am I looking at another week, or more, or less? Because technically, this week is going to start week six, so I'm hoping it doesn't take much longer than six weeks.

Oh, and bio-wheels seem to be part of any standard aquarium setup when you buy a decent sized (anything over 10 gallons) aquarium around here. Yeah, I'll probably wind up rinsing it off on occasion in warm water.

When a fish's life is on the line, it pays to be patient. As far as nitrites, you could be going for three or four weeks. I'm a little surprised that your cycle is going on for so long; I'd have guessed that the typical cycle would last 4-6 weeks. It varies.

There's not any real reason to flush the bio-wheel, except perhaps to make sure there isn't a lot of physically large gunk on it and to make sure it keeps turning.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Yeah, well, I just very recently calculated out that though I've had the tank for about 8 weeks now, the first two or three were spent losing fish (week 1 and 2), treating the tank (week two and three), and during week three to week four was when I finished up the medicating of the tank, cleaning it out, doing the major water change to make sure that everything was OK to begin cycling, so really it's only been cycling for about 4 or 5 weeks now legitimately. So I'm guessing you are right and I have about another two or three weeks at this point.

And yeah, I know I need to be patient. I'm just at the point that I nearly cry now whenever I look at the tank. But I definitely don't want to lose any more fish. Though, the longer it takes for my tank to finish cycling, the more I keep changing my mind on what fish I want.

I still want the gourami and the loaches and at least one frog, but I keep going back and forth between german blue rams and bolivian rams, and now instead of doing two frogs, I'm thinking one frog and one dragon goby now. My tank water is heated to about 77/78 degrees, which I know is at the high end for them, but should be alright, and the water in my tank is constantly moving so that should be good for him too. Plus, I have the dragons and the fake log so that is plenty of things for him to climb on.

So as of right now I'm planning for:

3 gold longfin danios (for "test" fish)
3 dwarf honey sunset gourami
either 3 german blue rams OR 2 bolivian rams (any thoughts from you all on which you think would be better would be VERY helpful. I really am having trouble deciding between them)
2 kuhlii loaches
1 frog
1 dragon goby

So, that would be either 12 or 13 fish total depending on which rams I get.

I have a feeling someone here is going to tell me not to get the goby. If so, please tell me why because I really think he's a cute little guy and I think he'd make a good addition to the tank (once I can finally start stocking it!) and so, if not, I'd really like to know why he wouldn't be good for my tank.

Thanks!

Dragon gobies AKA violet gobies would certainly be an unusual addition. They get fairly big (up to 21" but I've never seen one that big). Violet gobies are sedentary and rather bendy, which makes them ideal choices for smaller aquaria than most fish that are equally long, but suffice to say a 37 gallon isn't a permanent home for a violet goby.

There is the possibility that the dragon goby will be picky and not take normal pellet foods like other fish, requiring foods (at least in the beginning) such as bloodworms, brine shrimp, and such (you can get these frozen at your fish store). Their natural behavior is to sift sand through their gills to pick out small pieces of food. Although this isn't technically necessary in the aquarium, it is preferable to provide sand for these guys because of this. I have also read they like to burrow into sand.

Finally, violet gobies are primarily brackish fish, although they can live in freshwater.

Boosting the numbers in your schools would be good...

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Um, hmm.... Well, that's interesting. Cause according to the profiles page on this site it said that the dragon goby only gets to be 2". It's listed under: Rhinogobius Wui with common name listings being: Dragon Goby, Hong Kong Goby, Red Cheeked Goby, Red Throated Goby, and White Cheeked Goby.

OK, nevermind. I just looked at the sheet I had printed out, and it's saying "White Cheeked Goby." Is there a difference between the White Cheeked Goby and a Dragon Goby? If so, why are they listed under the same Latin name? This is so confusing!

And yeah, it says under "diet" that they're a Carnivore. I have no problem with that if they'll eat frozen brine shrimp or something (I am NOT keeping live brine shrimp. No how, no way!)

Anyway, thank you for bringing to my attention that there may be a difference between a Dragon Goby and a White Cheeked Goby. Because the Fish Profiles section that the Goby is under lists them as only getting to be 2" long and that they're perfect for 10 gallon and up tanks. And except for being able to provide sand for it, I have met all the other requirements. There's just no way I can realistically add sand to my tank with the kind of gravel I already have in there. It would just sink to the bottom of the tank beneath the existing gravel and be rather pointless.

Also, thank you for bringing to my attention the brackish bit too. I totally missed that part in the title "Freshwater & Brackish Fish", lol. All my mind focussed on was "Freshwater Fish."

It just looks like it would be a fun fish to have in the tank.

So, OK. My list(s) of possible/probable fish are as follows:

1
3-4 Gold Longfin Danios
3 Dwarf Honey Sunset Gourami
2 Bolivian Rams
2 Dwarf African Frogs
2-3 Kuhlii loaches (would be added second to last)
1 Siamese Algae Eater (would be added last)


2
3-4 Gold Longfin Danios
3-4 Bolivian Rams
1 Dwarf African Frog
1 White Cheeked Goby
3-4 Kuhlii Loaches (would be added second to last)
1 Siamese Algae Eater (would be added last)


3
3-4 Gold Longfin Danios
3-4 Bolivian Rams
2 White Cheeked Gobies
3-4 Kuhlii Loaches (would be added second to last)
1 Siamese Algae Eater (would be added last)




I was leaning toward German Blue Rams, but Bolivians seem to be hardier so I decided to go with them instead. And I know I've chosen a lot of fish that are not the norm (especially in my area) but that is what I want. I want different/unusual. And I'm seriously leaning toward list 2 or 3. The fish in list 2 and 3 seem to be closer together in temperature range, and also seem to eat a lot of the same foods.

My mistake was due to common names. The violet goby Gobioides broussonetti is also called the dragon goby or dragonfish at times, and I assumed that was the fish you were talking about because it is more common. You can even find it at big chain stores! I've never seen a Rhinogobius wui in person. R. wui is a completely different fish from G. broussonetti... Anyway, apparently R. wui is rather hardy, so it would probably be fine in your tank.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Oh, I see. Thank you. Good to know, because he really looks like a cute little guy. I'll talk to the fish guy and see if they either have one (or two) or if, like the Bolivian Rams, they can order them in (because they don't have Bolivian Rams on hand, but they're willing to get them for me).

Thanks again Shingami!

ACH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I got a call from the fish store I want to buy my fish from. They got in the Bolivian Rams I want and I can't buy them because my tank is still cycling!!!!!!!!!!!

ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ask them about their holding policy. Some stores let you put a "down payment" and they will hold fish for you until you are ready. Especially if they ordered the fish for you, I don't think they will mind. One of the stores I like do not have an actual holding policy, but I'm buddies with the manager so he held them for me.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

I talked to them this morning... For a down payment, they'll hold the fish for only 5 days, maybe a few days after that, but if my tank still isn't ready, they won't hold the fish any longer, and my down payment turns into a credit (no refunds).

Charming. *sigh*

The gal I did talk to on the phone did tell me that maybe I should add another air stone (though, I already have two) so I'm going to pick up another air stone tonight and hope that this will help move things along. This is SOOOOOOO frustrating.

All I can hope now is that my tank finishes cycling soon, and that if it does, there's still fish left at the store (they got 12 in) and then I can get them. I'm not holding my breath though. My luck in things tends to royally suck.

So, OK... I bought an air bubble wand and another 10 gallon air pump (which should bring total air equal to a 40 gallon). I also bought a fake rock cave to replace that stupid "Wonder Rock" that is causing my PH levels to skyrocket. Now I just have to install everything...

I'd be tempted to just get the fish and do daily water changes, but that's not necessarily a good idea unless you're watching your tank levels like a hawk to keep them from going up high... You should be progressing with your cycle. Although aeration will help with your bacteria, it's not like the tank needs to have its water churning like a boiling pot of water for the bacteria to grow.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Believe me, I've been tempted to go in and get the danios at least. But this store has a rigid policy, and if the water levels aren't right, they won't sell the fish, and I don't want to risk going somewhere else.

So, I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place.

I.......... HAVE........ FISH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


The cycle FINALLY finished somewhere between 2:30am this morning, and 1:30pm this afternoon!

Babel, lol, I probably did a happy dance to outdo any happy dance, lol. My cat jumped on me and my dog freaked, lol.

I ran one errand and then I raced off to the fish store! WHOO HOO!!!!!!!! I put a down payment on two beautiful Bolivian Rams, and then I bought two Dwarf African Frogs, and 3 New Guinea Rainbow Fish. OK, the Rainbow fish weren't what I went in to find, but when I saw them and was talking to the fish guy, he said they'd be fine in the tank with the Rams, and they'd be fine with the frogs. So, yeah, lol. I now have two little frogs, and 3 rainbow fish.

And they're going to order my goby and have it in next week! I'm so excited! My tank is FINALLY coming together! YAY!!!!!!!!!!

I never thought it would finish cycling! But it did!

And the frogs are so cute! One minute you don't see them, and then suddenly.... ziiiiiip! There goes one, shooting across the tank, lol. I just wish the rainbow fish would come out of the corner.

Once everyone is more settled in the tank and less stressed, I'll try taking some pictures of them. I may or may not be able to get pictures of the frogs, lol. They're very tiny and there's LOTS of places for them to disappear into, and they aren't going and hanging out where I thought they would.

There are several species of rainbowfish from New Guinea... What species do you have? Check the profiles, I think we have most of them. With the addition of rainbows, I would not put in danios.

By the way, test the water soon to make sure you don't get a spike in ammonia or nitrites after adding new fish.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Hi Shinigami,

Yeah, lol. I'm not adding danios. These are in place of the danios.

I apparently do need floating plants though. Only one of the rainbows would come out with the lights on, but when the lights went out.... boom! There went the fish, all over the tank.

So, I'm going to pick up floating plants, and more regular "rooting" plants.

OK, so, it's been a week since I first got my fish, and they're all doing fine.

This morning I went back to the fish store and picked up my Bolivian Rams. I paid off the remainder of my deposit, and in addition to the Rams, I got two little Zipper Loaches.

Wow, those loaches are very interesting! They look like a cross between a catfish, a fish, and a lizard. And I love how they "sit" on their little side fins. After putting them into the tank, they began sparring off with each other for a while, and now they are just all over the tank.

The Rams are taking a little longer to adjust, but they've definitely helped make the New Guinea Rainbow fish more boistrous! The one that had been hiding out at the back of the tank, obsessed with the mirror now suddenly has come out and plays with the other Rainbow fish. It's like they were all lonely and now that the Rams are there they are happy that they have new "playmates" even though the Rams seem to want nothing to do with the Rainbows, lol.

I don't yet have names for the Rams, but I named the loaches Zippy, and Boo.

I'm getting my Goby and my Kuhlii Loaches next week.

And the PH, Ammonia, and Nitrites are all within expected paramaters.

And they're all happy in the tank and swim around and through, and above and below everything, lol.

Hi all! Just thought I'd stop by and say hi and let you all know that my fish and frogs are all doing fine. The rams have calmed down and don't fight much now. My little frog (Killroy) is not so little anymore. He's at least an inch long now! But poor little Kermie is still about the same size as when I got him and I bought them both at the same time (about three weeks ago now). So, I'm a little concerned that he's not getting as much to eat as Killroy.

At any rate, they all seem happy and healthy, and I'm really enjoying them. I'm still waiting for my goby though. And I plan to pick up the kuhlii loaches on Friday.

Take care everyone! And thank you again for all your help and advice!

Competition for food can be a problem. Try something like feeding on both ends of the tank so the two frogs can be on opposite sides of the tank when eating so they don't have to compete.

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

I do try that, lol. Only problem is, the frogs tend to hide and I can't always see where they are, and the fish tend to get a lot of the food in the meantime. I've upped feedings to three times a day now. Two flake feedings, and one shrimp feeding. They all LOVE the shrimp. All I can hope is that he gets enough to survive. I'm just afraid of feeding too much.

Three times a day is a ton of food, just sayin'.

Do the frogs come out after lights out? Perhaps try feeding then. I've never kept cichlids, mostly since I know most of them would intercept food before any of my catfishes would get to it...

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The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

I'm just following what the guy at the fish store told me to do. Though I do want to cut back on the portions I'm feeding them.

The frogs come out during the day and at night. It doesn't seem to matter.

The Rams don't get all the food. They get some, but some of it gets past them. They tend to stay toward the middle and bottom, so the heirarchy seems to go:

New Guinea Rainbows
Bolivian Rams
zipper loaches and frogs (they seem to be in a tie for getting food)

The only time that the Rams have an edge on the food is when I feed them picene shrimp. The rams and frogs get to the shrimp first, and then if the New Guinea Rainbows get down to the bottom, sometimes they'll get some shrimp, and then the zipper loaches get what's left over because they can scavenge and get into crevices that the others can't.

But if it's flake food, the New Guineas get to it first.


Oh, I saw green tiger barbs today. They were really cool. Of course, so were the phantom glass cats and the freshwater lionfish I saw.

Well, the second frog looks like he's getting a little bit bigger. All of my other fish seem to be doing well. I'm still waiting for my white-cheeked goby, but I'm being patient (for once) and I'm enjoying all my other fish in the meantime.

The only thing I hate about the tank is doing the cleanings. It takes me about two hours on average to clean out the tank and scrub down the plants and decorations and then dump the water and replace them. But it's worth it because all the fish get really happy after each water change.

One of my kuhli loaches has been displaying odd behavior. He flies around the tank and I'll find him in the oddest places (such as crawling around plants like a caterpillar and munching on the algae growing there). I know he's getting food to eat because I've watched him eat shrimp and flake food and veggie wafers, so I don't know why he insists on being so active and going all over the place and finally landing in plants. Oh well.

I just added wernerai rainbows this past Tuesday. They had a couple of initial mishaps with the New Guinea Rainbows and the rams, but after everyone figured out that they're not food, everyone settled down and leaves the werneri rainbows alone. It's pretty cool.

Anyway, just figured I'd give a heads up.

Also, I'm really happy because it looks like the brown algae is FINALLY starting to die off. I don't know what changed, but I'm glad it did.

Take care everyone and have a happy Thanksgiving!