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Ok its done, for better or worse till water do us part.
For a very long while now I have played with little tanks, getting my feet wet so to speak and I have either been lucky or I have just gotten things right.
After some house renovation I finaly cleared a central spot for a large tank. Then I had some luck at the LFS. I have picked up (delivered in a week or so) a curved glass 60x23x18.

I have to now rethink everything I have learnt or was that gotten away with? The tank comes with a large canister filter and 3 4ft tube fluros (sorry babelfish I still dont know the wattage but this I can change anyway) It also has a 4ft UGF which is my first question.
Do I install the UGF? the canister is more than suffecient. Is the UGF good/bad for plants etc

but first some background on what I hope to achieve. I have had great success making comunity tanks. I know a few friends and we "move" fish around until everyones happy and thus have ended up with fish that may not theoreticaly get along but do now because we have "matched them" Anyway. Im not a big fish person, I prefer schools of "lesser" fish, Im not interested in boasting about how my suchnsuach fish is worth $400 or something exotic. I like a simple heavy planted natural looking tank.Lots of java moss, anubias nanus, rocks and driftwood.

So we want plants and note I have some height to play with.
I dont mind starting small and waiting years for it to develop.
Such fish as Cichlids,(I have a breeding pair of kribs for eg), rummynose, and tetras, gourami, kuhli loachs, yoyos, siamese algae eaters, . even Clowns all though they can get big But I can always shift non fitters to my mates or other tanks.

So for starters that might fill you in on my preference but Im open to suggestions. I have plenty of time to think and ponder. I have lots to read(especially plants) so links are welcome.
I also have a kayak I want to put in there..just joking,,it dosent quite fit


My 5footer
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/2242540621_1a81dcb3c8.jpg

Well done with the new tank.
with the filters you will get as many saying use UGF as it is a waste of time and are nothing but garbage collectors.
Now saying that I run in the 5ft an Eheim Pro11 plus a UGF with two risers each having its own air pump. To all those doubters just have a look at my tank and see the results two filtration's working does work. Also I am sure I am not the only member running the two systems

Your plants and aquascape will depend on the fish you have in the tank. The lighting all so the same.

With that large tank I would prefer the large Eheim if yours is not see if you can upgrade it will be worth it in the long run.

Substrate go for a good 1-3mm natural get it as soon as possible as you are going to require a lot and wash it and wash it and wash it until all the fines are gone and the water runs clear.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Good buy on the tank!!! Ive never seen a curved glass tank before, and i am assuming you mean a bowfront, or Euro tank? I would love too see some pix!


The Filter

What brand, Model, And GPH is the canister? I would suggest thinking about getting a second one, or a bigger one if it isnt enough, as we know that some LFSs do under filter package tanks. It might be better to get another filter, be it an HOB or a canister. About the UGF; Ive heard that plants can be planted in a UGF system, and then ive heard that they cant. I really dont know, so i would say wait and see.


HardScapes

THis is really up to you. I would put in a lot of driftwood and rocks to tie all that moss, anubias, and java fern to. All those pretty much like life on an object, althoguh they can be put into gravel if they must. What gravel are you getting? Try to get some bags of a plant substrate, and then either mix it, or make it you substrate. You could put the plant substrate on the bottom of the tank, then put in the gravel, and finnally the plants and rocks and such. This is the part where you make yourself you, and this is all about expression. (Hint/Tip: I would suggest you use what is often called the Golden Rule of planted tanks, or tanks in general. It basically is the Focal Point of a planted tank, or a tank in general. I love this, and i back it up 100% because it has made such a difference in my 20g. Just read the link and then youll know!)


Plants:

I dunno what wattage the 4ft tubes are, and what kind of tubes they are. I would also suggest you replace all of the Actinic or 50/50 lights with Daylight bulbs, as they are best for planted tanks. Most of the time, the fixtures included are meant for growing coral, so a simple switch will solve that. As for the plants themselves, i would reccomend some swordplants (Amazon, Ozelot, etc.) for the tank, simply because it is tall. The swords dont need bursting bright light (some do though) for them to grow. I have less than a watt per gallon, and my swordplant is growing nicely! Be cautioned though, as teh tallness of the tank will work against you in the lighting area, as more light is absorbed through the water. There are stem plants that you can utilize, like water wisteria, anacharis, ludwigia, and many more. Some are beautiful red colorations, and look very nice! Cryptocornes are great too! You could also try some sort of theme to your tank, so a lot of the plants will look more natural with their right fish. There are a lot of ways you can do this, and you should just go with what you like and what you think looks good.


Stocking

YOu can do pretty much whatever you want with the stocking, except for the larger fish and some cichlids. I would go with some sort of algae eater, so that some algaes wont ever pop up in your tank. SAEs are fantastic at this! Kuhli and the smaller loaches are excellent scavengers, although you need to feed them some kind of food of their own, be it shrimp pellets or algae wafers. Also live and frozen foods for a variety are excellent beyond compare. Veggies for Veggitarians is necessary also! (Tip: Remember the layers of your tank before you stock, to see where each fish resides and what you should feed and such. Most tetras and schooling fish stay near the top middle part of the tank, while gouramis and other labyrinth fish stay near the top, along with the hatchet fish and some others. Many cichlids like Kribs or Rams reside on the lower levels of the tank, ie the bottom. The loaches and bottom feeders also reside here. Be aware that a pair of cichlids that raise fry may be agressive to tankmates, and might create a territory for itself. Adventurous fish might end up getting chased away by a caring mom or dad.

Here are some good sites ive used before. Im sure that other members will have something to contribute to your link collection:

Tropica. A Plant Database type of site with detailed drawings and an easyfind SciName list

AquaticEden.com; A neat site describing many ways to setup a planted tank (Natural and Dutch, Iwagumi, Etc.)

Nutrient deficeny in plants; What to look for when plants seem to be dying

Good Luck, and you probably know most of this, so just use bits and pieces to your advantage!


~Goby



><> ~=!Vote Today!=~ <><
-----> View My Dragons <-----

This is good as I find myself nodding in approval and saying "yes thats why I like these fish or these plants" because i have had success in balancing my smalller tanks with such things.

As for the UGF. I think I will put it in.I can always control the amount of "flow" in the filter and experiment (i tend to do a lot of that Im convinced I wont get it right first time so im not too woried about ripping it down if required.
Canister wise I got the biggest they had
http://www.jbl.de/factmanager/frame_page.php?action=show&PageMode=2&IdType=2&Id=223
hope that works, the site was hard to find. JBL 500
and I will certainly get some photos and real data for you all once the tank lands at my door.

My 5footer
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/2242540621_1a81dcb3c8.jpg

Hi,
In addition to what has been mentioned, keep in mind that
as light passes through the water it is scattered and
absorbed. Different wavelengths penetrate deeper and others
are absorbed within the first few inches. When you look
at the bulbs, and read the description printed on them,
they should say SUN or DAYLIGHT somewhere on them. If they
say glow, or warm, or cool, then they are not what you want
for that tank. With a tank that "tall" you might want to
give some thought to using bulbs in the 8800 to 10,000K
range as that is shifting toward the blue end of the light
spectrum and that light will penetrate the water to the
substrate with more energy.

If you have prior experience with a UGF and do regular tank
maintenance, including vacuuming the gravel, then I would
not hesitate to use one.
At one time, when the UGF came out, "plant folks"
were concerned about the water flow past the roots of
the plants. The thinking was that in nature there
is not that large a volume of water flowing through the
soil. Then it was recommended that one place a small disk
of plastic or plate a few inches in diameter, on the filter
plates and then the gravel and then center the plant in
the gravel atop the plate. This was especially true for
swords and the Madagascar Lace plant. Another way was to
set the plates together, and silicone every third slot
shut. As time went by and we used them (UGFs) it
was found that the concerns were not valid.

In the end, it boils down to your preference. As Keith has
said, they work, and work well, and never need replacement
cartridges, or media.

Here is mine with a UGF, as you can see the plants are
flourishing:
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/35970.1.htm?12#

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

thanks Frank,
Nice tank indeed. Do you have any more info on your setup ( a link to a previous post?) ie substrate type etc.

Yeah i am aware of the extra height subduing the light it was my only "gotcha"/ I thought I might "A' put in more gravel than normal. Giving me a nice rise from front to back and right to left. Giving the back left a fairly decent hillock.
I am not sure if the UGF have a max gravel thickness atop them but its only a 4ft UGF. I can either shift it to one side or centre it in the tank.

also any thoughts on vacume or not to vacume. I have two setups in my experience one with UGF and one without and I have always vac'd both. But my plants have generaly been of the non rooted (in gravel anyway) type. So this, substrates etc is new to me. I dont want to get too complicated however. (first time up anyway

Im currently thinking,starting from right to left, mostly java moss
then at the focal point a nice root of wood with anubias and a java fern then it starts to head up the hillock which i may then plant with gravel plants. Sorta as if you are looking at a slice of the left hand side of a river bank going into the middle.
cheers

My 5footer
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2379/2242540621_1a81dcb3c8.jpg

mews if the kayak won't fit you can always just mail it to me
.


With flouro tubes length = Wattage. So to get more watts you need a larger or additional fixture. Franks given great advice on the type of light needed.

Just likes been said, you've got the understanding behind maintaining a UGF then I don't mind its use. I don't like new people using one just cause they're cheap, I've seen what happens to tanks in the hands of people like that and believe me it's not pretty (unless you like solid brown water and gray fuzz all over everything).

As for the plants and scape, since you've got the height, I'd play with that with your hardscape, get a nice big piece of driftwood your fish can play around in, and plant it up. If you stick with the lower light plants you won't pull down half the powergrid just trying to light your tank . I've found that with 2wpg and DIY CO2 (on a 2'tank) java fern grows especially fast and thick.

The clowns we have managed to turn most all of my plants into lunch ( ) although I've seen people with them in planted tanks before. I agree with the large schools of smaller fish, in the end I think it looks more impressive and makes a more realistic statement. I'd say a school of small bottom feeders, either corys, or loaches, a few algae eaters if you wish, small school of upper or mid level fishes, and one or two larger type fish. My tank has two remaining silver dollars that tend to liven things up among the WCMM and zebra danios at times (oh and eat the plants too .

^_^

Hi,
No, I've not posted allot about my tank. Honestly, it is
an experimental tank that I keep "playing" with. I'd
rather make any mistakes in a "small" 30G tank than later
in a 240G tank.

The substrate is 100% Sea-Chem Flourite. It is a substrate
that will provide the iron that plants need for the life
of the tank. Unlike some of today's substrates this is not
a "timed release" substrate that wears out after a year or
so. I do think that I will use the black version of the
Flourite in my next tank. When I set this one up, over a
decade ago, this color was the only color marketed.

UGF's are only efficient when the filter plates cover the
ENTIRE bottom of the tank. By shifting it center it in the
tank, you will leave the side sections without the
circulation, and with the depth of gravel mentioned, you
could wind up with anaerobic areas that could produce
toxic Hydrogen Sulfide. I'd suggest with a substrate
that thick that you also purchase some Malaysian Turret
snails. They burrow through the gravel keeping it aerated.

Also, by all means, vacuum the gravel, regularly, right
down to the filter plates, or the bottom glass. I'd
recommend that you mentally section off the non-planted
parts of the tank into four sections. With each weekly
water change, vacuum a different section. That way, over
a month's time, you will have cleaned the entire non-planted
parts of the tank and at the same time allowed each section
to recover from the cleaning before doing it again.

You might give some thought to using Eco-Complete as your
substrate as an alternative to the Flourite. In either case
I would not scrimp. Use one or the other, 100% don't mix
it with, say, regular aquarium gravel to save a few $$$
the results are not worth it.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--