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Okay, I've been thinking... If I can sneek a small tank under the 40 gal. Well actually, I know one will fit. BUT, I would want it minimal... I mean down to the bare bones. I would want it for shrimp or cray of some sort, layer of gravel, maybe anubia nanas and crypts. Filtration would also be minimal, the simple ones that run by air pump and no heater. The room it will be in is normally about 74F in winter and no more than 80F in summer. I am assuming the tank water (without a heater) will match the room temperature minus 2 degrees, correct? Would that be workable? My tap water PH is 7.6. Assuming I can find a way to get my hubby to agree to this new insanity, should the water be brackish? (As it stands, he's very much opposed to anything shelled other than the snails we already have.) Shhhh...

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

The room it will be in is normally about 74F in winter and no more than 80F in summer

That is practically a cold water tank. I would say it would be too cold for the plants and shrimps you have thought about.

I run my 45lt Anubias nana, Crypts, and CRS at 29c - 84f
plus a HOB filter, heater, plus a small air wand.


Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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74*F should be doable for quite a range of inverts, but with the fluctuations you might get I'd be a bit wary of the touchier varieties until you've run the tank for a while to see the extremes. In theory you are right about the temperature range, but in practice it can work out differently. Things like room heaters, electrical equipment, lighting, windows etc can all have an impact on an unheated tank. The plus side is that the larger tanks are much more stable.

I'm running one heater at the moment, the rest of my tanks are unheated. Providing you are careful about the choice of fish & inverts, you can get away with it. I am working on the idea there might even be some benefit to giving them small changes in environmental conditions - within reason of course!

I have my cherries and microrasboras in a 25cm unheaded and unfiltered tank. Being that size, it can fluctuate dramatically if we mess about with heating or cooling the house. It has a bunch of C. walkeri and a giant lump of java moss, but I can't imagine them having too much impact on the overall environment.

I'd plant the tank up and give it a go.

I know you could get away with cherries and ghosts for shrimp, or quads for cray, but I'm not too familiar with the other options that are available over there. Alleni cray are popular in the US, I expect they are quite hardy and worth investigating.

No point going for salt or brackish unless the things you want require it. It is much easier to maintain FW than fussing about with salt and stability of water chemistry does seem to be very important to most inverts I've kept, moreso than other parameters.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

Thanks Callatya and Keithgh,
I was just thinking it would work with CRS since the profile says they can tolerate temps ranging from 39F to 82F. (I just thought it would be a shadow imitation of the change in seasons for the water world.) I would also want to move a few of my MTS in there as well.

The wall to which it will be against is near the archway to the hall and dining room. The air vents and fireplace are about 5-7 feet away in front left to right direction. In the summer I had to unplug the heater to the 40 gal. The tank temp stayed within 76-82 without the heater.

I have java moss, cabomba and anacharis. I'm sure I can get some vals, if the others are not enough for cover and feeding...

I don't know if I should venture into crays. I know they are hardier, but they can also be more vicious. I don't want to come home and find I have one "Rocky" that laid waste to everyone else in the tank.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to a reliable site that sells freshwater shrimp online? (shipping within the US of course!) I checked with my LFS and the only shrimp he gets are ghost shrimp.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi Kelly,
I have used these folks for my CO2 system, plants,
snails, shrimp, and even some fish.
Outstanding folks and extremely knowledgeable.

http://www.azgardens.com/c-19-the-shrimp-factory.aspx

Read their links about ordering, especially the new
purchaser. I always wait until they have shipped their
week's orders and then call while they are catching their
breath and relaxing. Just tell them what you are thinking
and ask their opinions.

Frank:

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank! I think I've found a winner, the Scavenger Shrimp - Pearl Spotted, Macrobrachium mirabile formerly known as "Snowflake Shrimp" Size: 1/2 to 2" pH: versatile Temp: versatile Origin: India. Now I just have to convince the "other half"...

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Should I wait until the spring to order the shrimps?

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi Kelly,
What did AZ Gardens say? Live shipments do not always stay
indoors at airports or at shipping warehouses such as
UPS or FEDEX. Additionally, you must be vigilant while
around the house on the day of arrival as if you are not
there to answer the door when they knock, they may just
leave your package in the snow or out on the porch.

Shipping in the summer has its hazards as the stuff, if
left out in the sun on the tarmac or your porch, could
easily over heat.

Follow their advice, and stay home and pay attention on
the day of arrival.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Should have replied back in Nov., but AZ did call back. They say the best time to order is in the colder weather, less losses.

I just got 6 of the 12 Brazilian Grass shrimp today. They're on back order. I'm kinda bummed out. I also wanted the Golden Clams. Those were also on backorder. I wanted those the most! But the few shrimp I got are fine except one didn't make it through transit. So I only have five. I put them in the 10gal with the MTS and pond snails. I gave them a little java moss for comfort.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi Kelly,
I'd wondered what had happened.
While the clams are "neat" aren't they filter
feeders? They will require a special diet and food
and I would think would do best in a "seasoned" aquarium
that has had a chance to build up its own population of
small animals and particles that the clams would feed on.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

hey there, just be aware in colder temps sometimes colored shrimp may not display their full colors, my cherry shrimps are in an unheated tank and they turned clear for the winter, just colored up a couple weeks ago BRIGHT red again!