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So I really want to see my plants flourish and am currently struggling. I have several questions which I present here.

1. Ive heard UGF's are no good for planted aquariums because the roots dont really get a firm grip of anything considering you are constlantly using the siphon to clean the mess up. Ive read where people recommend not using a UGF. My question is, what happens to all the black crap that is down there when one siphons? IF it doesnt go out, doesnt that harm the fish at some point? Few months or a year or two after being set up?

2. Ive wanted to use dirt, regular dirt from my back yard, put a few inches in, then cover with regular aquarium gravel, the kind u buy at the store. My question would then be, would the dirt be at all harmful to the fish? Would there be something wrong with this? Would the filters manage to bring out the dirt and completely mess up the inside of the filter, like on an HOB.

3. Ive read and like the idea of CO2 generator but they are too expensive here in Costa Rica (everything is ridiculous). I would like to thus build my own with yeast, the question is, can I overload the tank with C02 possibly killing my fish or is it completely beneficial or would the amount of c02 have to be ridiculous for this to happen?

Thanks alot for your time, knowledge and interest in my questions.


George.

I was sort of curious as well about the waste when you have a fully planted tank. There is no way to gravel when its all plants so what about the waste?

I have never had a fully planted tank but am working on one now so....

Q1
UFG there are two definate thoughts here on FP many use them like myself and others who will never use them
I recently heard of a person who has a UFG and has not touched it for about 10 yeras and never a problen. My latest setup is only four years old and I have no intention of cleaning it for a long time. Each of the outlets/risers is powered by its own air pump. I also use a large external Pro11 Eheim filter. I do a deep gravel vac front only weekly, the rest of the tank is very dificult to get to. I recently syphoned directly from the riser. The air stones are very important I only use the plastic type that I can pull appart and clean regually. I also run the air pump full strength.

Q2
Simple answer here a BIG NONO. Many raesons mainly it could contain many nasties and will kill all that is in the tank.

Co2
Totally useless if you have a good water and surface movement. For that reason alone I can never use one at all. There are members who have made their own and use them and they would be the best to advise you all about them.
If you decide to build and use one ask in Technical Tinking

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info

Look here for my
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Keith

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Dirt, in and of itself, is not a bad choice and I've thought of it myself. However, NOT the dirt from your backyard. Whether or not YOU (or your family) have used pesticides or ANY sort of chemicals, you never know what has leeched into your soil or washed in with rain or whatever. You can use dirt (plain dirt you can buy by the bag) with NO additives. You'd have to ask someone who has used this substrate for more details, but that's what I've gathered so far.

As keith mentioned, there really is two sides on the UGF story... I've never used one and when my mom kept fish, she finally just disconnected it and left the plate in place, instead running a HOB filter. I've heard of problems with UGFs and plants, but keither doesn't sound like he has any problems with it, so it could be a matter of personal preference. *shrugs*

~Meow. Thus spoke the cat.~

I also have seen/asked some or all of these questions here too!

QUESTION 1

Kitten and keith answered it pretty darn well! With a planted aquaria, you wont really need to vacuum the areas with plants because the plants secrete a (My guess would be enzyme) that dissolves the "stuff" down there and absorbs it for nutrients. It actually could be possible that it might decompose in the unplanted gravel and form a poisonous gas that can be released into your tank. That would be a problem. However, if you regularly gravel vac the unplanted sections, then it probably wont happen.

QUESTION 2

Again, kitten pretty much answered it. Although, there is another reason why not to. Some experts claim that the organics in regular soil will decompose and make you tank life a total living nightmare!!! The stench would probably be unbearable, and the water parameters might get messed up. Not to mention a complete mess too if not done right.

There is a silver lining though. If you get aquatic planting soil from a special company, then it will help your plants. It is like a special type of soil that is slightly different than your regular soil in a way i do not know/understand.

QUESTION 3

You could in a way poison the fish if you overdose the CO2 to a level high enough. Also, plants absorb oxygen and give off CO2 in the night. So it would end up killing everything. Also, CO2 fluxes will trigger pH fluxes too. This is not good for both fish and plants. Depending on the size of the tank, overdosing with yeast made CO2 is harder the larger the tank size.


Good luck and i hope you will enjoy planted aquaria as much as most people!

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Hi,

1. Ive heard UGF's are no good for planted aquariums because the roots dont really get a firm grip of anything considering you are constlantly using the siphon to clean the mess up. Ive read where people recommend not using a UGF. My question is, what happens to all the black crap that is down there when one siphons? IF it doesnt go out, doesnt that harm the fish at some point? Few months or a year or two after being set up?

Reply:
Yes, detritus/mulm does accumulate in both the gravel
and under the filter plates. This bothers
people who tear their tanks apart after many months
or years later and discover it. They think their tank
is filthy and can't believe what has accumulated.
Actually it causes no problems. My tank has been set
up and running for over 14 years now with a UGF. I have
mentally divided the non-planted sections of my tank into
four sections. With each weekly water change I vacuum the
gravel in a different section, right down to the plates of
the UGF. I've had virtually no problems with the tank,
the filter, or the plants. In fact, I throw hands full of
plants away each week.

2. Ive wanted to use dirt, regular dirt from my back yard, put a few inches in, then cover with regular aquarium gravel, the kind u buy at the store. My question would then be, would the dirt be at all harmful to the fish? Would there be something wrong with this? Would the filters manage to bring out the dirt and completely mess up the inside of the filter, like on an HOB.

Reply:
Yes, you can use the soil from your back yard - IF - you
or previous owners have not used fertilizers on the yard,
and you don't keep livestock there as well.
IF you are going to try soil - THEN READ - The Ecology
of a Planted Tank, by Diana Walstad FIRST..

I cannot stress this enough.

Read her book FIRST, and then decide IF you really
want to.
If you do not read her book, and follow it to the
letter, you could wind up like I did, with an opaque,
milky white, tank that smelled like a septic tank.

3. Ive read and like the idea of CO2 generator but they are too expensive here in Costa Rica (everything is ridiculous). I would like to thus build my own with yeast, the question is, can I overload the tank with C02 possibly killing my fish or is it completely beneficial or would the amount of C02 have to be ridiculous for this to happen?

Reply:
Plants need light, and they need nutrients, especially
carbon. If you are running low light (1-2 wpg) with
a normal fish load, and using only low light
plants (Anubis, crypts, etc.) then you do NOT need to
add Carbon.
Unless your tank is heavily planted, the low light
plants will be able to extract the carbon they need
by breaking the bonds of the organic chemicals in the
tank supplied by the fish, excess fish food, and any
dead plant material.

If you have fast growing stem plants, low light plants, and
other medium light (2-3 wpg) then you SHOULD
add carbon to the tank in either liquid form such as
the Flourish line of products, or through the injection
of CO2 gas. DIY CO2 generally works fine in tanks up to
about 30-40 gallons. It will take two CO2 generators
connected in series (at least) to provide enough CO2
for those tanks. In tanks larger than 40 gallons it can
take several of them all connected in series to provide the
necessary CO2. That boils down to WORK. You need several
bottles clean and ready to mix, as well as several running.

If you are running 3+ wpg, then you MUST provide the carbon
that the plants, need. Again, it can either be a liquid
additive, or by injected CO2 gas. Again, if the tank is
small enough then DIY CO2 injection will work. But, if the
tank is too large then it will take several DIY generators
to bring the CO2 saturation to where it should be.
Normally CO2 saturation levels are between 20-30mg/l.
Depending upon your KH, it could take several generators
to reach, and maintain, that level of saturation.

THE biggest problem with DIY CO2 generation is the way it
works and the quirks of making it work.
You prepare a mix of yeast, sugar, and water together
inside a 2 liter plastic bottle and then connect each
bottle together with plastic hose. The connections at the
bottle caps are e to leakage and must be sealed with
silicone, and then checked regularly with a few drops of
soapy water. If there is a leak then the water will bubble
at the site of the leak.
Once mixed the yeast instantly produce CO2 as they ferment
the sugar. This leads to a surge of CO2 that rushes out
the hose an into the tank. Then, as the fermentation
progresses, the CO2 production drops off and you have to
restart the system. This this leads to a build up of CO2
in the tank and then later, a drop off of CO2 saturation
in the tank. So you are constantly surging, and dropping
off, much like a sine curve. You cannot regulate the
output of the DIY system (put it through a regulator) nor
can you store it (create a reservoir for it). If you try
to, in any way, the bottles can blow up spraying that
fermented slop all over the room and floor (reeks like
beer) or it will blow the hose fittings out of the bottles.
The surging up and down of CO2 creates a stress on the
fish, and does very little for the plants. Plants do not
react instantly to the increase of CO2. It takes some time
for the plants to begin using the CO2 and then when the
CO2 drops off they have to "regroup" and start breaking
down the organic molecules. This constant "regrouping"
causes the plants to use some of their stored "energy" and
over a period of time could wind up with an energy
deficit.

As far as killing your fish that is seriously, extremely
rare. For you to put enough CO2 into a tank that the
fish experience lack of Oxygen, you would have to have that
tank so over crowded that it resembled a tank at your LFS
that had just received a new batch of feeders and were all
crammed into the tank so they could barely swim.
If you come down in the morning, just before the lights
come on, and your fish are gasping at the surface THEN you
have too much CO2 in the tank, or not enough oxygen. In
that case drop an running air stone into the tank and the
fish will be fine. At the same time cut back on the amount
of CO2 you are injecting.

Hope this helps...
Frank

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