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O.K. so this tank has been up an running for over a year an now your getting thread algae. What's changed? It's lowlightish, etc.

BTW - This tank is dying for some shrimp to walk around and keep it clean, especially that java moss plateau.



My Scapes

Tetratech,

Are you still up or are you up again? This is early, man

Anyway, nothing much at all has changed in this tank ever since the complete makeover on July 4th.

BTW, this is Xmas Moss and not the cheap stuff

The moss occasionally showed problems throughout the duration of the tank, always when it reached a point where it required trimming. I remember that a couple of months back I had layers of BGA in it.

I simply think the moss got too thick and collected waist and uneaten food, as well as having a rotting layer close to the wood that didn't receive enough light anymore.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

this is Xmas Moss and not the cheap stuff

Well, excuse me!

Yeah, I just woke up, been getting up early like 4:30 since I pulled those almost all-nighters.

Anyway like I said find yourself half dozen amanos/yamatos and everyday will be xmas for them in that moss.

Going for a quick bike ride, but I'll be back.

My Scapes

Well,

It is 4 weeks since my last entry and not too much has changes in this tank with regards to plants used and fish, except that all was going downhill a little.

I added quite a bit of duckweed to the tank a few weeks back. The purpose was to shade the tank a little so that maybe the tenellus grows taller (as I assume it is so short because of the rather strong light) and to eradicate the algae on the moss. Well, neither nor worked, but instead I created problems with my crypts:

The long and floating leaves of the hygro caused the duckweed to stay static on the left side and eventually covered the entire surface above the whole left half of the tank. This greatly limited the light to the crypts and not only did they change their color from brownish to greenish but they also started to melt.

Here is a look at that side of the tank:

Attached Image:

I Am Melting

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On top of it, even the removal of the moss from the wood and the attempt to place only really healthy parts back onto it (a few weeks back as well) did not work out. Here is a closer look at the moss this weekend. Once can clearly see the stringy algae (staghorn, I assume) all over it. The same algae, but more bunched up, is now also in various spots anchored in the tenellus.

Also, you can see two of my platies that are a mix of the red and the yellow ones:

Attached Image:

Moss - Algae

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Luckily, I am redoing my 125 this weekend and I was able to replace the hygro with a new batch from that tank. I made sure that it is short enough not to break the surface and I also reduced the amount of duckweed.

I used tweezers to pull out as much of the algae on the moss as I can.

Have fun,

Ingo

Here is the result after the trimming and water change:

Attached Image:

This Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, it is official, something is out of whack in this tank, and I have no idea what it could be (except the lack of ferts, ).

This tank has maintained itself nicely until I replaced the gravel with the Eco. I assume Eco leaches some stuff, albeit minor, into the water column and that throws my pretty much non-existing fertilizer routine off.

Here is a shot of the Tenellus group:

Attached Image:

Tenellus Group

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That doesn't look all that bad, but a closer look reveals the algae that is spreading in and between the individual plants. It seems to be mostly of the kind that also grows on the Xmas moss, but more dense (I assume this is related to the fact that it is further away from the light):

Attached Image:

Closer Look

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The moss in itself developed much more algae within the last week then it did in the two weeks before that.

Here is the whole "log" with moss and algae:

Attached Image:

Xmas Algae

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last shot, a closer look at the most dense spot of algae in the Xmas moss.

I spent as much time as I could to manually pull out the algae strings from the moss. It is actually fun to do, but after a while my back started to hurt from the strangely bent position of looking closely from the side while pulling from the top.

Any ideas of why the tank would be so bad all of a sudden?

Ingo

Attached Image:

Darn Algae

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That's what my 50g tank looks like. I'm attempting to make sure all my ferts are consistant, as that's the best I can do. My CO2 is up there above 30ppm so its gotta be something else. Maybe I bottomed out on nitrate or something. I'm going to try to test for stuff later today.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Sorry to hear that your new tank is as bad as this one. At least I can say for sure that this tank does not see ferts often and has no CO2, that together may explain the issues.

I hope the tenellus in the 125 is going to take off soon as I will use it to replant this tank and some of the 20.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So, instead of bugging you about the algae in the tank I will post 3 pictures about some of the fish in it.

Here is the sole Neon Tetra, he is alone for many months now and doing just dandy

Attached Image:

Neon Tetra

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is my pride, the oldest of my personal mix of Sunset and Twin Bar platies. Not that he is really all that great looking, but it is my first planned cross-breed. As you can see, he has a little red as well. Where the fully black fins come from is beyond me, but all of the fish of this breed have them. And they are of varying ages.

Attached Image:

Oldest Mix

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is another one of that mixed group, they make up 30% of the tank population by now.

Interestingly, none of them show distinct signes of sex and I have no clue if they are males or females or whatever.

That's it,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Another Morph

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'd guess that the twin bar platys come from the line of the "wag" platys that have fully black fins and tails. Whatever you xed it with must have that trait somewhere in its genetic code as well, otherwise it wouldn't show up.

and a note....these flowers are getting to me I may have to take a hiatus from the site if I don't get my danios back.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Whatever you xed it with must have that trait somewhere in its genetic code as well, otherwise it wouldn't show up.

And not only that, it seems to be a dominant gene as almost all new fry are yellowish with black fins (and sometines face). And almost all fry bearing platies in the tank are Sunsets.

these flowers are getting to me I may have to take a hiatus from the site if I don't get my danios back.

Yeah, the flowers in the background would never grow submersed.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

I don't have too much time, so I will cut to the chase. The hair algae was unbeatable and I had to remove all moss and all tenellus

Here is the tank after another almost major redo:

Attached Image:

Tank After Redo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a Matty-Angle look at it. As you can see, at least for the time being I have an open front.

The Tenellus is new in this tank as it has been moved from the 125G:

Attached Image:

Angle

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a look from the right side of the tank, in the background you can see a little of the 125 shining through.

I hope that the tenellus will prosper as it used to when I first introduced it into this tank.

Attached Image:

Side View

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This is sooo nice. I really like this look a lot better, even though the other was nice too.

Cheers
TW

The fish for sure were not happy with my redo, as I made a mess in the tank as usual. Nevertheless, this gave me the change for a good vacuuming.

Here are the Neon and Platy saying "Are we done yet!"

Attached Image:

Fish

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Robyn,

It is nice, but rather bare.

Anyway, here is a shot of the surface from underneath. You can see the huge ripples that the HOB makes, wouldn't work for CO2 I guess.

Also, note the duckweed

Attached Image:

Surface

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last shot is a closer look at the wood. I scrubbed it like mad in the hope to get rid of the algae. I also turned it around so I get to see the more "rooty" looking side of it that had been out of view so far.

Now I will read the kids their goodnight story and then I update the 40 and 125.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Wood

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It is nice, but rather bare

That's starting to be the look I like best. Height at the back & to one side, with more open space to the front or other side. Maybe more tenellus or blyxa - but as said, I like this look.

Cheers
TW

I agree this looks nice. All I want are a few little tenellus to creep up under that anubias in the front left corner and block the rhizome from sight.

Did any of the xmas moss get saved?

And please keep the ferts constant and don't kill any more tenellus

Good job/:'

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Did any of the xmas moss get saved?

That's what I tried the last time. And the result was even more algae.

I started with pulling individual strands of moss of the wood and tried to clean them from the algae. After a few branches I gave up, the moss simply has too many small branches in which the hairs get stuck

No saves.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is the tank after another almost major redo

Nice

A few tight groups around the DW focalpoint. Now you have a good hardscape backdrop if you decide to do a lawn in the foreground.

My Scapes

Excuse my ignorance, but what is that plant in the back right corner? How will it do in a bigger tank as a background plant? I'm looking for something to essentially act as a background and perhaps cover parts of the surface.

Nice layout, btw.

The plant in the back right is echinodorus tenellus, and will not grow tall. Any number of stem plants can be used as a background. Check out tropica and used the advanced search for background plants.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks folks for the comments.

Yeah, that is tenellus, the same plant than all over the right hand side. Its growth is better than it will be in this tank as it has been raised in the high tech 125. It reached (long time ago) a height of about 8 inches in my 125, but that is rare.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a shot of the tank from yesterday. I have to say that not even one plant in the tank seems to have grown, not even the smallest plantlngs of the tenellus.

I noticed some small holes in the hygo and believe it is a lack of potassium, so I corrected this with this weeks water change.

Here is the tank,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Last Night

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Looks nice, but no growth is not good. Something is amiss. Have you started up with a regular fert schedule again? If so what are you dosing/how much/how often?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yes, I have, Matty

I dose 1/4 tsp KNO3, 1 pinch of Phosphate, almost 1/4tsp Potassium, and the following day 8ml of micros (125 gets 30ml). All only once a week. But 3 times per week 10ml of Excel.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hmm... that shouldn't be a problem. Maybe everything is just starting to settle in. Almost everything in there is new from another tank. Give 'em another week.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah,

That's what I think I am going to do, wait a little longer to see if the growth kicks in sometime. As you may see, some of the tenellus (like way back on right side) is still having a few emersed leaves that the plant is about to shed (or melt).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Isn't growth in a non C02 tank always very slow? Maybe too slow to even notice slight growth here & there?

You dose 8ml micros? Do I underdose my 43G then?. I add only 10ml for 43G (but I also add 4ml of iron).

Cheers
TW

"Isn't growth in a non C02 tank always very slow?" - Yes Robyn, it is.

"Maybe too slow to even notice slight growth here & there?" - Normally I would say yes, but if you have a small runner still attached to a parent tenellus and this runner has 2 1" leaves and buried small roots then I would have expected to see the change.

"Do I underdose my 43G then? I add only 10ml for 43G (but I also add 4ml of iron)." - Well, how often do you add 10ml? Once? If you would add them 3 times per week you should be fine. I add 30ml 3 times per week into the 125G, a tank about 3 times as large as yours. Also, it depends on the micro mix as not all have the same concentration.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A week has gone by and I still see no additional growth in the tenellus. Actually, when I compare the pictures from the last 3 weeks then it appears as if the leaves have flattened out, meaning they don't stand up as much as they used to.

On the other hand, you may notice that the central anubias is about to flower again

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank Today

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, how often do you add 10ml? Once? If you would add them 3 times per week you should be fine.

Oh, I see what you mean I think maybe my 43.5 is fine, but my non C02's may be underdosed. I will ask in my logs next time about those 2 tanks.

I'm not knowledgeable enough to comment on why your tenellus seems flattened out - although to me the pic of your tank looks very nice. We will have to wait for the tenellus king, Matty, to enlighten.

Congratulations on the annubias flower (again) - but don't you feel robbed by these flowers teasing us. They are only there a day or so, then they pack up shop & go.


Cheers
TW

They are only there a day or so, then they pack up shop & go.

Thanks for the input Robyn,

Actually, in my low tech tank the anubias flower lasts quite a bit longer, maybe around 5 days to a week.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Then I wish my low tech ones would flower - but they don't. Yours must be very happy, to flower on lower light & with no C02. Good job.

Cheers
TW

Quick update:

Within the last two weeks, the tenellus has not grown a bit. Actually - I slowly seem to see the first signs of this plant going the same route as the previous tenellus plantlings, becoming very static. Given that ferts and maintenance are right on, I am wondering if the Eco is no good. Not because of poison in it or what not, but because I think it may be way too dense for plants with fine roots (I think tetratech mentioned the density as well).

Here is the tank last weekend for the NJAGC presentation:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The one nice thing for last week was that the Anubias decided to show itself from its best side, aka flower in best stage of being.

By now it is actually past its prime, but the second Anubias is getting a new flower now.

That's it,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Anubias Nana

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well,

The tenellus in this tank has gone really downhill in the last two weeks. I have no explanation for it, the tank has seen the same care/neglect than it got for the last year and a half.

Ever since I added the Eco the root feeders seem not to be doing too well (I see the same in the 20, but plant changed are so much more common that it doesn't show that much).

Here is a look at the tenelus last week, this week it looked even worse with almost all leaves really thin and melting.

Attached Image:

Tenellus

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

In addition, a work related lack of paying attention this week caused me not to see the tank for 3 days, and when I did I noticed that almost all crypts had melted away

Anyway, I replaced the tenellus with wisteria clippings from the 125. I know they are not going to last either, but better than nothing for now.

Here is the tank yesterday:

Attached Image:

Tank Now

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, here is an angled view of the full tank, with lights and all.

As I have not given myself an Xmas or Birthday present yet I think I may make this one a high(er) tech tank as well, adding a canister and CO2.

Have fun, Happy New Year,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Angled

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo

Ever since I added the Eco the root feeders seem not to be doing too well

That's interesting. I wonder if any other Eco users have found the same.

I replaced the tenellus with wisteria clippings from the 125

Looks nice - pity the wisteria will grow so quickly, but how it is right now - it's a very good look.

Cheers
TW

Hello LF,

I have been paying extra attention to this log (although I still really enjoy keeping up with the others) because of the platies. I thought it was really neat how yours have formed an all new variety of platy in your own tank. I hope mine do that someday (they seem like they would be happy to do so as I cant get them to stop dropping fry).How are yours doing by the way? Are you getting more and more of your own variety showing up than the store bought varieties? Also one more question: I see a hiarchy in my platy colony do you see this also? You can read more in my platy colony log.

I aslo think this tank is really nice. I love the natural look of all your tanks and I hope I can acheive that with my 55 gallon.

What I am getting at is great job!/:'

My tenellus does really well in eco, but I do a lot of ferting...every day. I'm sure it's the inconsistancy, rather than the substrate. I've had tenellus grow in plain gravel, and gravel that wasn't much bigger than sand. It actually seemed to prefer the finer, denser gravel - though I've nevevr seen it do particularly well in actual sand.


Sorry 'bout the short entry...I've been going crazy too.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Not much to report on this tank either, just like the 20 it is doing ok.

Both Anubias are actually not looking all that great when seen live, I may replace them sooner or later.

Here is a full shot,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank Now

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice growth on the wisteria. The mound shape you have it in is really appealing. I'm not sure what you could replace the anubias with. They look really good IMO...you may want to just replace with new anubias?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty,

When looking at the tank, I notice that a rather large portion of the Anubias leaves are covered with green spot algae that by now forms whole areas over the leaves. Not very sightly. One cannot see this in pictures though.

I agree, the Anubias look very nice in these spots, so I may replace them with: Anubias

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just a quick new shot from last night, although not much has changed since the last shot. It makes me realize that growth in a low tech tank is really much slower.

I added a trimming of my Alternanthera to the tank a week ago, just an experiment to see if it survives and maybe even grows.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That is a really pretty shot & a really nice layout you have going there. Nice splash of colour from your fish in the top right hand corner too.

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn,

The picture looks nicer than the tank itself

In detail, the Crypts are hanging in, but nothing else, and once in a while a leaf or two are melting away, faster than new leaves grow. The Hygro looses all lower leaves. The two Anubias are pretty much destroyed - Either the leaves have holes (no, not potassium) or they are covered in green spot algae (forming entire carpets on the leaves). New growth is not making up for the loss of covered leaves. The sole plant that seems to be doing great is the Wisteria.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sorry to hear of the plant troubles in there - but if it is any compensation - your picture shows none of the problems and all of the beauty

Cheers
TW

I agree, keen photo skillz LF. Just like Amano himself I bet. I'm sure nobody ever thinks that his plants might have small holes and green spot issues, but I bet he does too. Then he just takes the pics in the right light and angle....and nobody knows it.

And btw, it looks like your fish are loving it...I think I've noticed some multiplication.....be glad, I only have 6 fish left.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

keen photo skillz LF. Just like Amano himself I bet

OK Matty, what do you want?

Your words are way too kind to be offered just as a compliment, you must need something

The fish are loving it in this shot because it was taken pretty much right after the water change and they come out to eat the layer of yuk on the surface. I hope you are wrong with the multiplication statement, the tank is full

The 20G is actually going from 3 fish about 2 months ago to maybe 10, but breeding Platies is not really a challenge .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

but breeding Platies is not really a challenge

Well, for some it is. Too many canibals in my tank where the platies live

Cheers
TW

I hope you are wrong with the multiplication statement, the tank is full

I think the platies will decide that for themselves . So there really aren't any more in there than before huh? Coulda sworn, anyhow, the do indeed look happy. Breeding platies probably isn't a challenge if you can get them to live. I probably can't even do that. I've gone from having 18 thriving cardinals for a couple years to not even being able to keep fish alive. Freshwater fish anyhow, my SW do just fine...The only special treatment is RO water...

I don't need anything per se. But you do a great job with the photos nonetheless. Someone might think you were crazy talking about wilting crypts and algae when they look at your PHotos.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Ok then,

Here are two close-ups of the Anubias in the tank.

First off, the one on the left side of the tank. It should not be too hard to note the holes in the leaves, even the leaf that is a third gone is visible.

Attached Image:

Anubias with Holes

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the other one from the middle of the tank. The green algae is pretty obvious. Even the snails have a field day.

I assume this one has algae because it sits pretty much right below the flowout of the HOB.

Believe me now

Ingo

Attached Image:

Anubias with Algae

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

"And, all looks so green because I use a 65w 6700K light. See This Link for my first reaction when I switched to this light"

Little_Fish - I wanted to read about this but the link only takes me to the forum page. Any chance you could repost it? I just got my CF 65W aqualight today for my 29 gallon so i wanted to read about your reaction to it. I'm quite impressed with it so far!!! Thanks.

LF, that second picture looks like BGA to me

It looks like the algae I used to get on anubias leaves in my hard water shellie tank a long time ago. Maybe trim those old algae leaves and let new growth come in?

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Back in the saddle!

Sorry guys,

Don'e have a lot of time.

But, this should be the link to the short thread of the green tank.

NowherMan6 - nah, that's not BGA, it is more likely an overgrowth of green spot. It does not come off what so ever. Trimming off the leaves would leave the plant with 3 leaves only, rather ugly

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a quick update from the tank today.

The Anubias had to go, I couldn't stand them anymore. I placed some clippings of ferns in place of the middle one, and more wisteria where the left one was.

Well, I know it is a little messy and unorganized right now in the tank, but that is ok. I will change it when I have a better idea on what to do, and after I get my canister filter I ordered last week

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank Today

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Doesn't look messy LF.

What cannister did you order?

Cheers
TW

For a 29G, I ordered the big gun, an Eheim Professional II 2026, the same I have on the 40G.

This will either cut down on maintenance time (less filter cleaning) or make a jump to High Tech as easy as buying a bottle and a regulator

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Eheim Professional II 2026, the same I have on the 40G

Ahh, I've bought 2 of those. They are sitting in the garage, waiting for hubby to come good with my winnings - then I'll order the 2 tanks they are destined for. I thought about the Professional III & came close to ordering one for the intended 4ft tank - but that filter is so large that it wouldn't fit in my cabinet.

Too late to change my mind, but as you have the 2026 for the 29G & 40G, I hope they will not prove too small for the tanks I'll be putting them on.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The 2026 for this tank is for sure going to be overkill and I will run it with reduced throttle. It can easily maintain the 40G, even when I didn't turn it up all the way.

The III is a monster and has a huge capacity, when it comes to canisters. I have been toying with that filter for the 125G, but I think it is too large for it. The 2026 and the 2028 that are on that tank now maintain it very well, and are together still cheaper than one III.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The 2028 is another I considered & it was going to be for the 4ft & 2026 for the 3ft. I rang to speak to the online LFS for some final questions before ordering, & he told me to save my money & get the 2026 for the 4ft, as well as 3ft - but I have wondered ever since & thought I should have spent the extra.

When I ordered these filters back in January, the online firm (who had been around as a shop for a while) just started their internet business & had some great specials on eheim filters. At the time, I could have picked up the III for $300 less than I saw it in-store elsewhere. This place is still cheap, but they are now selling the III for around $150 - $190 more than they were at January. It seemed such a bargain then, that if it would only have fitted in the cabinet, I would have bought it in a flash. As you mention, you can turn the throttle down on all these filters, and I would have had a nice powerful filter, if I ever caught hubby at a weak moment & got consent for a 6 foot tank (well, I can dream can't I)

Cheers
TW

See Robyn,

Even on a 6 foot tank I would not be so sure that the III is all that good (speaking of a 125G here, not a 180 or such). You would have to provide enough current to push water to the other end of the tank and in return to get all the gunk sucked up into the filter. And that is a looooong way on such a long tank. I am certain that 2 smaller filters, one on each side, are more effective. Hey - that would be my setup

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I see your point & it makes sense. 2 smaller ones, one esch side, would be better.

I also thought that the electronics on the III, was just one more thing to break down.

Anyhow, what I have is - well - what I have & that's that

Cheers
TW

This week was the 2 year anniversary of this tank. It has undergone quite a few changes during that time, and why would I make an exception on its birthday

I added the 2026 filter to the tank, placing the sponges of the AquaClear that used to be on the tank in the bottom of the canister. Something with the filter seems to be off though. It appears as if it sucks in some air through the primer pump, for the last 6 hours (since I added it) it shoots tiny air bubbles out of the spraybar. And I hear the sound of rushing air bubbles in the filter as well. Maybe it goes away in a day or two, if not then I will have to contact Eheim.

Besides the new filter, I also moved the heater in a horizontal position in the bottom left back, pretty much no longer visible. I also moved the wood further to the left and removed all hygro from the tank. All crypts have been replanted (which means they probably will melt) and the ferns (nl java and bolbitis) have been moved, with the NL fixed to the wood. As the load of NL that I had already in the tank was not enough I added some more from the 125G.

The picture is not too good, I also see that my background needs to be fixed up a little as it is hanging down and creates a gap at the top.

Happy Birthday Tank

Ingo

Attached Image:

2 Years Old

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice, Ingo.

The filter may just be settling in. Many times when setting up a new filter there is air in the sponges, filter media or even a small amount in the canister trapped after starting. It will slowly get released from the filter as it is able to draw it down through the impeller and out the spray bar. Should clear up without any problems in a day or two.

Jim

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Water, taken in moderation, cannot hurt anybody. -- Mark Twain

Happy Birfday the tank. My how you've grown....er...filled in nicely.

You have definitely changed this tank to "minimal maintenance mode" with the new filter, slow growing sturdy plants and what not. Can't say I blame ya though. Looks nice!

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Jim for the input - Yes, you were right,the bubbles have gone away. Interesting to me is that this is the third filter of exactly the same type that I set up and I never had a bubble-day before. Maybe it is because of the sponges that I added in the bottom of the filter.

Matty - Yup, you found me out . Large filter and little demanding plants make this one hopefully less maintenance intensive, with water changes and such at least 2 weeks apart, if not much longer. Time will tell. On the other hand, with a bottle of CO2 it is quickly convered to a high tech tank now.

Here is a shot from this morning:

Attached Image:

Full Tank

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is a closer look at the wood area. Except for the tallest NL fern on the left no other plant needed to be tied to the wood. All other NL fern is just stuck into the gaps provided by the wood itself, very convenient. The Bolbitis is tied to a rock behind the wood.

Attached Image:

The Wood

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, I still maintain my Alternanthera experiment. So far so good, I guess this plant can survive as long as there is medium light available. It has not lost even one leaf since it has been added a few weeks back.

That's it,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Alternanthera

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What are you dosing now if you aren't doing weekly water changes, but have CO2?

Also, you say your alternanthera hasn't lost leaves, but has it grown any?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

No Matty, I don't add CO2, I just meant to say that I could, if I should consider another high tech tank. But currently, nothing like this is in the plannings.

It has grown a tiny bit, but for sure not much. I don't think I mind this, as long as it does not collect any algae on it. Actually, static plants have something to them as they reduce maintenance even more

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sorry, must've misread.

Hopefully you can keep the algae at bay, I remember how those static tenellus turned out

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah, I remember that as well.

But now I have an army of nutrient suckers, the wisteria

Unlike the tenellus, the wisteria is doing very well in the tank. I have no idea why though

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Very nice Ingo. It's a very attractive tank. I forget did you have amano shrimp in this tank. If they could survive with the platys they would should keep the leaves of the slow growers pretty clean.

My Scapes

Nah,

No shrimpsters in this tank, I don't trust the gang of Platies. They are quite a wild bunch. The first thing they did after I added the fern this weekend was to nibble off the fine roots

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just wondering, Ingo, have you ever tested the gph the 2026 filter gives you. Not what it says on the specs, but what it actually gives you, if you have ever tested it?

Cheers
TW

Nah,

I would have to hang all kinds of gadgets onto the thing in order to figure that out.

I go with my guts feeling about it. In particular in this size of a tank I am not firing it up all the way anyway.

Why are you interested in this piece of knowledge?

If it would be because low ghp mean less "cleaning" then that would not be entirely true as filter volumne plays an important role. Because HOBs have such a small filter volumne they need loads of ghp so the chance for stuff to get stuck in the filter is higher. Large volumne filters, and the 2026 is one of them (in relative terms) provide much more options for stuff to get attached to the media, and - of course - for beneficial bacteria to settle onto.

If you ask because of the usage of a UV filter then gph would matter as it defines what will be killed in the light. So, even if you would know the max "real" flow rate of this filter, this information would only be helpful if you actually would have the filter run at that setting.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Question comes about because of the UV, but not for it (that's been sorted now).

Matty taught me how to measure the flow (no gadgets required - unless a bucket is a gadget). Seems my eheim 2224 runs at around half the stated flow rate, so even though I thought I would have to turn the filter to half throttle, it needs to run at full throttle. Then tetratech joined in & said the eheim ecco on his 72G runs at half the stated capacity (he's not concerned about it, it was just for trying to decide if something was wrong with my filter or not). So I was just curious, if tetratech and I are the odd ones out, or if all eheims only run at half the rate stated on their specs.

If that is the case, I am thinking the 2026 I bought for the African cichlid may not be enough. It may be too late to swap it anyway. It is unused, but I bought it back in January.

That was all.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

What was that tanks size for the Africans again? And wasn't there some tank where you planned to add two filters?

My 2026 on the 40G is easily able to handle that tank, even with reduced throttle.

OK, I have to mention the fact that planted tanks require less filtration anyway, at least in my opinion.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It will be 72G and no, I didn't have plans to run 2 filters. Originally I was going to get the big gun, Pro 3, but it was physically too big for the cabinet. Next I was going to get the 2028, but well meaning LFS said the 2026 was enough & I should save some money & get it instead. I always thought I should have gone 2028. I've heard the same as you, that planted tanks require less filtration, but these africans are bigger fish & the tank won't be planted. If the 2026 loses as much as the 2224 (actual flow as to compared to specs), that will be close to 50% less turnover than I expected. All the specs say it's plenty big enough, but I wanted maximum turnover for the Africans.

Cheers
TW

I am sorry Robyn,

but I for sure would say "you should have gotten the 2028".



See, even in my planted 125G - I run a 2028 and a 2026, and only after adding the latter were my water conditions more stable.

One of the worst things people can say, IMHO, is "you should have" as it is unproductive, so I am sorry about me doing that.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

t will be 72G and no, I didn't have plans to run 2 filters. Originally I was going to get the big gun, Pro 3, but it was physically too big for the cabinet. Next I was going to get the 2028, but well meaning LFS said the 2026 was enough & I should save some money & get it instead. I always thought I should have gone 2028. I've heard the same as you, that planted tanks require less filtration, but these africans are bigger fish & the tank won't be planted. If the 2026 loses as much as the 2224 (actual flow as to compared to specs), that will be close to 50% less turnover than I expected. All the specs say it's plenty big enough, but I wanted maximum turnover for the Africans.

See, I think planted tanks need just as much filtration, if not more. The plants themselves do do a lot of filtering, but there's also more organic matter building up in a planted tank, with dead leaves etc. all building up after a while. I'd much rather overfilter than underfilter regardless. Any way you can still finagle the 2028?

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Back in the saddle!

I agree with most of with LF said. There is a big difference between a fully planted tank with little fish (no pun)schooling around and one with less or slow growing plants with meatier fish like africans.

That being said I still think you'll be O.K. The 2026 is rated for up to 92g, that's a plus for you. It really depends how big and how many fish you will stock, your water change schedule, your lighting of course.

Also in a tank with africans, wouldn't you be using chemical filtration as well (carbon). There are also some good products that will help absorb organics before they become nh3. One that comes to mind is Seachem's Purigen. It's inexpensive and you could stick a few of them in the Eheim to help. Also if you put your fish on the tetra diet that would be another plus for you.

EDIT:
Nowher I think we posted at the same time, but I do disagree with you for several reasons. Most people that don't have heavily planted tanks are more attracted to some nice meaty fish. These fish give off much more waste and there aren't any or not as many plants to help absorb it. So one has to strictly rely on the actual filter itself. Also the actual food going in is much greater in these "fish tanks" then it would or should be in a planted tank with little fish (no pun)

My Scapes

I agree that a lot of it will have to do with stocking, but if the fish load is of average on what people add to such tanks (forget the 1" per gallon rule) then the 2026 will be pushing it, IMHO.

Also, Purigen is not my kind of thing. All the fuss with recharging ( takes like what? 36h? - and is not endless) or paying for each new batch does not make it practical for permanent use, IMHO. Also, I think it would require replacement/recharging rather often with messy fish in the tank. The finer the filter (so to speak) the faster if gets filled up.

NowherMan6 - I also think that planted tanks need less filtration than unplanted tanks, given they function as intended. If all your plants are dying all the time (no pun intended either, well - maybe, ) then you sure have loads of dead matter, but in a healthy tank, no way.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I hear ya LF, but the Purgien is just something that will help (if it's needed). Remember with "real fish" one has to maintenance the filter more anyway, so when you open it you replace the purgien. You just need a few of the ready to go 100ml bags. Every take a look at what's in the sump of saltwater FO tanks. There is all kinds of absorbent media to help cleanse the water.

My Scapes

I still disagree. I think that with our tanks, which feature relatively high light, CO2 injection and the addition of fertilizer, we need as much filtration - especially biological filtration - as possible. With all of those variables our water has to be as pure and organic free as possible, otherwise we're serving a free buffet for algae. In a planted tank we also need to be concerned with flow and getting that variable right.

I guess we can all agree that regardless it's better to over filter than under

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Back in the saddle!

I still disagree. I think that with our tanks, which feature relatively high light, CO2 injection and the addition of fertilizer, we need as much filtration - especially biological filtration - as possible. With all of those variables our water has to be as pure and organic free as possible, otherwise we're serving a free buffet for algae. In a planted tank we also need to be concerned with flow and getting that variable right.

You dare to challenge the self-proclaimed king of protist destruction.

Remember even though you adding those things the plants are processing them and then we are refreshing the tank with 50% or so WC. In addition remember the biological filtration is taking place in the tank possibly more so than in the filter depending on tank size and stock. So you still think no3 and po4 causes algae in a well planted tank? Bensaf where in the world are you, please talk some sense into this Checky Young Pup.


My Scapes

Oooo I wanna jump in late on this one.

OK, all IMO here, but planted tanks don't need and shouldn't have nice pure water. If it did, why would we add fertilizer to the tank. I'd seriously damage anyone who put 10-20ppm of NO3 and 2ppm of PO4 in my reef tank. The only thing we are trying to accomplish with a filter is reduction of ammonia through water movement, which is generally less in a planted tank.

To argue the other way though, if you were going to stock a planted tank with as much fish mass as a malawi cichlid tank, where it's wise to overstock for aggression reasons, you'd bet I would want more filter on there than if there were just a group of small schooling fish.

All said, I think you will be alright with your filter, Robyn. Like tetratech and I debated about so long ago, both filter surface area/size and flow rate need to be taken into account. Canisters in general have slower flow rates and larger filter areas.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

OK, all IMO here, but planted tanks don't need and shouldn't have nice pure water. If it did, why would we add fertilizer to the tank

The Mod speaks, there is silence followed by

Define Pure

Well, I think there is a difference between the organics that sit in a tank from fish and food that eventually will break down into nh3 and those that we put in from no3 and po4 for ferts.

I agree if you stock a planted tank with alot of fish you would need more filtration, but that's the whole point. The planted tanks don't generally have those kinds of fish thus the need for filtration is less.

Simple example, Nano tank filled with growing plants, no filter required. Nano tank filled with growing fish, major filter required - Fade to black.



My Scapes

So you still think no3 and po4 causes algae in a well planted tank? Bensaf where in the world are you, please talk some sense into this Checky Young Pup.

Actually NO3 and po4 etc. that form in the tank, yea, I think that's the bad stuff. I thought that's why we do water changes and add our own NO3 etc. The KNO3 from the bottle is inert and harmless. Isn't that one of the points Bensaf was making? It's OK to add our bottled KNO3 and PO4 because it's harmless - it's the nitrate, phosphate, ammonia (ammonia being the most harmful, thus the need for a big biological filter) build-up through tank process that really causes algae.

Or maybe I'm just imagining things here, and the wisdom passed on through several hundred pages of threads is all mixing into one big ball of misinformation in my brain.

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Back in the saddle!

IMO there's no difference between the natural forming NO3 and the stuff we put in our tank as KNO3 except for the added potassium. It's simple chemistry. NO3 = NO3, period. I had a tank that was well filtered with two large well fed angels. I never added KNO3 to the tank until I removed the angels due to aggression. It's only the ammonia step we want to skip. The organics that are excreted as fish waste are mostly ammonia. Some PO4 too. What do plants live off in the wild? organics and waste. There's NO way they could live off chemicals different than what they have already evolved to use.

I guess I'll define pure for ya....the water I use to mix up my SW has a measure of 0 TDS. Zero total dissolved solids. That means no NH4, NO2, NO3, PO4, or any other mineral or organic substance. Pure. That's what my reef tank gets, pure water. H20.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

So, yeah none of us are using pure water in our planted tanks, certainly not out of the tap anyway.

I agree with where Matty is going with the no3 is no3 thing. When it gets broken down why should that be different than the regular process.

Here's why I don't think no3 causes algae. If you follow EI, which most of us to some extent, your constantly dumping no3 and po4 into the tank. Even though the plants are using it there is always or should always be some levels in the tank. So regardless of the plants uptake if there is still no3 in the wc why wouldn't algae grow. The whold idea of EI is to keep no3, po4 in a range, but we do know that when nh3/nh4 is available we have problems. In a well planted tank since the uptake of nh3 is supposely quicker this usually isn't an issue so the tank can deal with having high light, etc.

My Scapes

Yeah, I guess yous are right

I'm still going to over filter my planted tanks though, in defiance of the King's proclamation, little fish or not...

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Back in the saddle!

All this is IMHO. Do as you wish, there is no harm in overfiltering. This all started with flow I belive. I don't think you need as much flow in a planted tank as you do in a nonplanted one. Media capacity and runthrough is bigger.

BTW Nowhere what filter are you using on the 65g?

My Scapes

I know I know, I'm just having a bit of fun.

For the 65 I'm pretty sure I have an eheim 2217 classic. I went for the classic style because I liked the idea of the water going in one end and coming out the other with no place to bypass within the filter. I had that problem with the ECCO - one section of the media would be clean all the way through , meaning the water wasn't going through the media as it was supposed to. I chose the size of the 2217 because I remember reading that Jeff Senske uses 2215s on a ~40G tanks, and since mine is more than 20G larger I figure why not go the next step up. The flow can be turned down easily enough, but I really want the bio-filtration surface area.

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Back in the saddle!

That's really funny, I went with the 2213 classic for my 46g. I also was going to purchase a 60cm tank, but decided for now to use my 46g since I already have lighting, etc.

It might be a bit small, but obviously I'm not worried about it. I really like my ecco, but wanted to see the difference first hand between the classic and ecco.


My Scapes

That's the spirit

At least we agree on something, being overfiltering is not a bad thing

Why not a Professional II guys? Too expensive?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Apologies to Ingo for thread hijacking...

Did you set up the 46G again? I thought that was going to be the SW tank


EDIT: Posted at the same time as Ingo - I agree with tetra, I wanted to see how well the classic cannister filter worked with the "in one way, out the other" structure of the filter. Heard lots of good things about them, and there really wasn't a ton of reason behind it besides that. The ones with the built in heaters were awfully tempting - ya know, anything to keep stuff out of the tank

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Back in the saddle!

Did you set up the 46G again? I thought that was going to be the SW tank

Well yeah, but the SW tank is definitely on hold for a while. I simply don't have a place to put it with the sump.
Sorry Matty!

The professional was tempting, but I was keeping the expense down. I'll probably go with one of those hydor inline heaters. I've heard good things and besides it will slow down the flow of my 2213

My Scapes

Sorry Ingo, I seemed to have sidetracked your thread for a bit here. But thanks to everyone who chipped in with filtering advice, which seems, in the end to be that yeah the 2026 might be ok, but more is better for the meatier fish.

I've checked the height of my cabinet & the height of the 2028. I have around 580cm (around 1ft 22 inches) and the 2028 needs 455cm (1 ft & 18 inches). Does that give me enough height for the hoses (so as they are not too bent over) and enough room for maintenance? Ingo, you have this on the 125g - what do you think?

I still don't know if I can swap it (or not) but if you guys think it will fit, I'm going to ask.

Thanks (sorry again for thread stealing Ingo)

EDIT: Correction to those measurements. I gave the height of my cabinet at the front edge, where there is a little extra piece of wood tacked in.

Inside the cabinet itself, I have just a touch over 2ft.

If you can, pls let me know if you think I have enough space for 2028.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I will have to go and do some comparison measurements later in the day to answer your question.

This would be the base facts that I have for you right now:

Height of the 2028 = 45,5 cm
Height of the 2080 = 56,7 cm --- so about 11 cm taller

The way the hoses come out seem to be of similar angle.

Is the back of your cabinet open or are there just a few holes in ther for all the tubing?

Ingo

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Sorry Ingo,

I made an error. I know the 2080 will not fit, or rather that I think the fit is just too tight to work out. Having said that, if it did fit, that was my original choice, but I figure it's way too big for the space.

My questions in my last post should have been about 2028. So wherever I said 2080, I really meant 2028. Sorry to confuse the issue.

So if you're able to, could you pls look at your 2028 and see if you think I have enough clearance. I have 60.96cm in the main part of the cabinet. As I mentioned, at the very front of the cabinet, I lose a little height, due to a piece of wood being nailed in place there for the cupboard latches, but where the hoses are I have the full 60.96cm.

When I was originally going to buy the 2028 back in January, I decided myself that I did have space, but since you have one in action & therefore know how it works & how much room you need for for access space, I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

My cupboard has a full back in it and the only holes are ones hubby makes for me, so I can get all the leads in & out.

Thanks Ingo.

Cheers
TW

Ok Robyn,

I did some measuring. The height from the top of my back opening to the bottom of the shelf on which the filter sits is 22", or about 56 cm.

As you can see, I have some "extra" space available. So I tried to gauge how much lower it could be, which is about 2", or a little over 5 cm less, totalling about 51 cm needed height of the top of the back opening. Reason why this has to be higher than the filter itself: The hoses come in in an upward angle.

Would that fit?

Ingo

Attached Image:

2028

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Here is a newer picture, from yesterday, of the tank. I had added a few more clippings of NL Java Fern from the 125G to the wood in this tank about a week ago as the crypts on the left continued to melt, due to moving them.

Attached Image:

Full Tank Yesterday

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Here is a "not-so-good" shot of the area just to the right of the wood in the back, not that visible when looking at the tank head-on.

There you see a collection of smaller crypts (Wendtii green and red), a newly added baby Tiger Lilly, and the Bolbitis roots affixed to a rock.

Attached Image:

Detail I

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Here is a close-up of the "Alternanthera Experiment"

It keeps on growing little by little, no leaves lost so far, and the plant is in there quite a while now. It lost a little of its color when compared to the 125G, but not too bad.

Attached Image:

Detail II

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The Wisteria in this tank is doing excellent so far, no die-offs to report and slow but healthy growth.

Here is a look at some of it, plus a male platy chasing a female

Attached Image:

Detail III

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Last but not least, here is a close-up of the Fern Farm

Most of the wood is covered with NL Java Fern, the Bolbitis is visible on the right of this picture. It had collected a little of BBA and this has been treated yesterday with Excel, but it was not too bad anyway.

That's it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Detail IV

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Very nice pics LF. I especially like the fern farm & wish I could find NL here - but so far, it is nowhere to be found.

Thanks for the responses re the 2028, but I felt bad about sidetracking your thread, as the question seemed to be taking up too much room. So, I started a new thread here [link]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/33582.1.htm?0.653483# [/link]and continued the conversation there. If ever you have a spare moment, wondering if you might take a visit there.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW

Very little has changed in this tank over the last few weeks, here are a few notable differences:

- The Neon has gone to fish-heaven, he was dead when I came back from vacation (but still in one piece, so he must just have died). He was about 2 years old, I think that is pretty much in line, right?
- The Wisteria keeps on growing well.
- The Alternanthera started to grow, I assume it needed some serious time to settle. It probably doubled in size to maybe 5" since being added about 5 or 6 weeks ago.
- I received a Najas Indica during yesterday's NJAGC meeting and planted it for the time being to the right of the driftwood. I will see how it does.

That's it,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Last Night

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Here is a look at the tank from today, all plants seem to be growing nicely.

Overall, the tank gives me pretty much no trouble at all and works well with its maintenance schedule of every other week.

Attached Image:

Full Tank This Weekend

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If you look at the lower left area of the full shot then you note that I added some Anubias there. 3 Nanas were trades received from our NJAGC meeting this weekend (I handed in some fern), the two Nana Petites are from the 20G QT and originally also received via trade.

Attached Image:

Nanas

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Here is a closer look at the Alternanthera these days. I have to say that I am surprised to how well it does. Yes, it grows rather slow, but it still has its beautiful color. I guess one can say that it works well for medium light tanks.

Attached Image:

Alternanthera

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Last but not least, here is a close-up of the Najas indica. Also a very pretty plant and growing at rather fast speed (for this tank). I am not certain what to do with it in the long run, but its fine leaf structure sure lends itself for a nano, so whoever has one, it may be worthwhile checking into this plant.

That's it for now, many more shots are in my other logs (all 4) in a few minutes,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Najas Indica

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Just a qick new full tank shot:

The nana petites that were parked on the left of the tank have been removed and added to the 125, the Najas indica has been trimmed a few times, part of the trimmings went to the 125 and the 20.

Growth is good the Alternanthera now really looks out of place, but I think I will soon conclude that growing this plant in this tank will work. I may remove it for now and maybe add a small group at the next redo.

The Wisteria is taking over all open spaces and needs a trimming soon as well.

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank Yesterday

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