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What are you dosing now if you aren't doing weekly water changes, but have CO2?

Also, you say your alternanthera hasn't lost leaves, but has it grown any?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

No Matty, I don't add CO2, I just meant to say that I could, if I should consider another high tech tank. But currently, nothing like this is in the plannings.

It has grown a tiny bit, but for sure not much. I don't think I mind this, as long as it does not collect any algae on it. Actually, static plants have something to them as they reduce maintenance even more

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sorry, must've misread.

Hopefully you can keep the algae at bay, I remember how those static tenellus turned out

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah, I remember that as well.

But now I have an army of nutrient suckers, the wisteria

Unlike the tenellus, the wisteria is doing very well in the tank. I have no idea why though

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Very nice Ingo. It's a very attractive tank. I forget did you have amano shrimp in this tank. If they could survive with the platys they would should keep the leaves of the slow growers pretty clean.

My Scapes

Nah,

No shrimpsters in this tank, I don't trust the gang of Platies. They are quite a wild bunch. The first thing they did after I added the fern this weekend was to nibble off the fine roots

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just wondering, Ingo, have you ever tested the gph the 2026 filter gives you. Not what it says on the specs, but what it actually gives you, if you have ever tested it?

Cheers
TW

Nah,

I would have to hang all kinds of gadgets onto the thing in order to figure that out.

I go with my guts feeling about it. In particular in this size of a tank I am not firing it up all the way anyway.

Why are you interested in this piece of knowledge?

If it would be because low ghp mean less "cleaning" then that would not be entirely true as filter volumne plays an important role. Because HOBs have such a small filter volumne they need loads of ghp so the chance for stuff to get stuck in the filter is higher. Large volumne filters, and the 2026 is one of them (in relative terms) provide much more options for stuff to get attached to the media, and - of course - for beneficial bacteria to settle onto.

If you ask because of the usage of a UV filter then gph would matter as it defines what will be killed in the light. So, even if you would know the max "real" flow rate of this filter, this information would only be helpful if you actually would have the filter run at that setting.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Question comes about because of the UV, but not for it (that's been sorted now).

Matty taught me how to measure the flow (no gadgets required - unless a bucket is a gadget). Seems my eheim 2224 runs at around half the stated flow rate, so even though I thought I would have to turn the filter to half throttle, it needs to run at full throttle. Then tetratech joined in & said the eheim ecco on his 72G runs at half the stated capacity (he's not concerned about it, it was just for trying to decide if something was wrong with my filter or not). So I was just curious, if tetratech and I are the odd ones out, or if all eheims only run at half the rate stated on their specs.

If that is the case, I am thinking the 2026 I bought for the African cichlid may not be enough. It may be too late to swap it anyway. It is unused, but I bought it back in January.

That was all.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

What was that tanks size for the Africans again? And wasn't there some tank where you planned to add two filters?

My 2026 on the 40G is easily able to handle that tank, even with reduced throttle.

OK, I have to mention the fact that planted tanks require less filtration anyway, at least in my opinion.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It will be 72G and no, I didn't have plans to run 2 filters. Originally I was going to get the big gun, Pro 3, but it was physically too big for the cabinet. Next I was going to get the 2028, but well meaning LFS said the 2026 was enough & I should save some money & get it instead. I always thought I should have gone 2028. I've heard the same as you, that planted tanks require less filtration, but these africans are bigger fish & the tank won't be planted. If the 2026 loses as much as the 2224 (actual flow as to compared to specs), that will be close to 50% less turnover than I expected. All the specs say it's plenty big enough, but I wanted maximum turnover for the Africans.

Cheers
TW

I am sorry Robyn,

but I for sure would say "you should have gotten the 2028".



See, even in my planted 125G - I run a 2028 and a 2026, and only after adding the latter were my water conditions more stable.

One of the worst things people can say, IMHO, is "you should have" as it is unproductive, so I am sorry about me doing that.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

t will be 72G and no, I didn't have plans to run 2 filters. Originally I was going to get the big gun, Pro 3, but it was physically too big for the cabinet. Next I was going to get the 2028, but well meaning LFS said the 2026 was enough & I should save some money & get it instead. I always thought I should have gone 2028. I've heard the same as you, that planted tanks require less filtration, but these africans are bigger fish & the tank won't be planted. If the 2026 loses as much as the 2224 (actual flow as to compared to specs), that will be close to 50% less turnover than I expected. All the specs say it's plenty big enough, but I wanted maximum turnover for the Africans.

See, I think planted tanks need just as much filtration, if not more. The plants themselves do do a lot of filtering, but there's also more organic matter building up in a planted tank, with dead leaves etc. all building up after a while. I'd much rather overfilter than underfilter regardless. Any way you can still finagle the 2028?

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Back in the saddle!

I agree with most of with LF said. There is a big difference between a fully planted tank with little fish (no pun)schooling around and one with less or slow growing plants with meatier fish like africans.

That being said I still think you'll be O.K. The 2026 is rated for up to 92g, that's a plus for you. It really depends how big and how many fish you will stock, your water change schedule, your lighting of course.

Also in a tank with africans, wouldn't you be using chemical filtration as well (carbon). There are also some good products that will help absorb organics before they become nh3. One that comes to mind is Seachem's Purigen. It's inexpensive and you could stick a few of them in the Eheim to help. Also if you put your fish on the tetra diet that would be another plus for you.

EDIT:
Nowher I think we posted at the same time, but I do disagree with you for several reasons. Most people that don't have heavily planted tanks are more attracted to some nice meaty fish. These fish give off much more waste and there aren't any or not as many plants to help absorb it. So one has to strictly rely on the actual filter itself. Also the actual food going in is much greater in these "fish tanks" then it would or should be in a planted tank with little fish (no pun)

My Scapes

I agree that a lot of it will have to do with stocking, but if the fish load is of average on what people add to such tanks (forget the 1" per gallon rule) then the 2026 will be pushing it, IMHO.

Also, Purigen is not my kind of thing. All the fuss with recharging ( takes like what? 36h? - and is not endless) or paying for each new batch does not make it practical for permanent use, IMHO. Also, I think it would require replacement/recharging rather often with messy fish in the tank. The finer the filter (so to speak) the faster if gets filled up.

NowherMan6 - I also think that planted tanks need less filtration than unplanted tanks, given they function as intended. If all your plants are dying all the time (no pun intended either, well - maybe, ) then you sure have loads of dead matter, but in a healthy tank, no way.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I hear ya LF, but the Purgien is just something that will help (if it's needed). Remember with "real fish" one has to maintenance the filter more anyway, so when you open it you replace the purgien. You just need a few of the ready to go 100ml bags. Every take a look at what's in the sump of saltwater FO tanks. There is all kinds of absorbent media to help cleanse the water.

My Scapes

I still disagree. I think that with our tanks, which feature relatively high light, CO2 injection and the addition of fertilizer, we need as much filtration - especially biological filtration - as possible. With all of those variables our water has to be as pure and organic free as possible, otherwise we're serving a free buffet for algae. In a planted tank we also need to be concerned with flow and getting that variable right.

I guess we can all agree that regardless it's better to over filter than under

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Back in the saddle!

I still disagree. I think that with our tanks, which feature relatively high light, CO2 injection and the addition of fertilizer, we need as much filtration - especially biological filtration - as possible. With all of those variables our water has to be as pure and organic free as possible, otherwise we're serving a free buffet for algae. In a planted tank we also need to be concerned with flow and getting that variable right.

You dare to challenge the self-proclaimed king of protist destruction.

Remember even though you adding those things the plants are processing them and then we are refreshing the tank with 50% or so WC. In addition remember the biological filtration is taking place in the tank possibly more so than in the filter depending on tank size and stock. So you still think no3 and po4 causes algae in a well planted tank? Bensaf where in the world are you, please talk some sense into this Checky Young Pup.


My Scapes

Oooo I wanna jump in late on this one.

OK, all IMO here, but planted tanks don't need and shouldn't have nice pure water. If it did, why would we add fertilizer to the tank. I'd seriously damage anyone who put 10-20ppm of NO3 and 2ppm of PO4 in my reef tank. The only thing we are trying to accomplish with a filter is reduction of ammonia through water movement, which is generally less in a planted tank.

To argue the other way though, if you were going to stock a planted tank with as much fish mass as a malawi cichlid tank, where it's wise to overstock for aggression reasons, you'd bet I would want more filter on there than if there were just a group of small schooling fish.

All said, I think you will be alright with your filter, Robyn. Like tetratech and I debated about so long ago, both filter surface area/size and flow rate need to be taken into account. Canisters in general have slower flow rates and larger filter areas.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

OK, all IMO here, but planted tanks don't need and shouldn't have nice pure water. If it did, why would we add fertilizer to the tank

The Mod speaks, there is silence followed by

Define Pure

Well, I think there is a difference between the organics that sit in a tank from fish and food that eventually will break down into nh3 and those that we put in from no3 and po4 for ferts.

I agree if you stock a planted tank with alot of fish you would need more filtration, but that's the whole point. The planted tanks don't generally have those kinds of fish thus the need for filtration is less.

Simple example, Nano tank filled with growing plants, no filter required. Nano tank filled with growing fish, major filter required - Fade to black.



My Scapes

So you still think no3 and po4 causes algae in a well planted tank? Bensaf where in the world are you, please talk some sense into this Checky Young Pup.

Actually NO3 and po4 etc. that form in the tank, yea, I think that's the bad stuff. I thought that's why we do water changes and add our own NO3 etc. The KNO3 from the bottle is inert and harmless. Isn't that one of the points Bensaf was making? It's OK to add our bottled KNO3 and PO4 because it's harmless - it's the nitrate, phosphate, ammonia (ammonia being the most harmful, thus the need for a big biological filter) build-up through tank process that really causes algae.

Or maybe I'm just imagining things here, and the wisdom passed on through several hundred pages of threads is all mixing into one big ball of misinformation in my brain.

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Back in the saddle!

IMO there's no difference between the natural forming NO3 and the stuff we put in our tank as KNO3 except for the added potassium. It's simple chemistry. NO3 = NO3, period. I had a tank that was well filtered with two large well fed angels. I never added KNO3 to the tank until I removed the angels due to aggression. It's only the ammonia step we want to skip. The organics that are excreted as fish waste are mostly ammonia. Some PO4 too. What do plants live off in the wild? organics and waste. There's NO way they could live off chemicals different than what they have already evolved to use.

I guess I'll define pure for ya....the water I use to mix up my SW has a measure of 0 TDS. Zero total dissolved solids. That means no NH4, NO2, NO3, PO4, or any other mineral or organic substance. Pure. That's what my reef tank gets, pure water. H20.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

So, yeah none of us are using pure water in our planted tanks, certainly not out of the tap anyway.

I agree with where Matty is going with the no3 is no3 thing. When it gets broken down why should that be different than the regular process.

Here's why I don't think no3 causes algae. If you follow EI, which most of us to some extent, your constantly dumping no3 and po4 into the tank. Even though the plants are using it there is always or should always be some levels in the tank. So regardless of the plants uptake if there is still no3 in the wc why wouldn't algae grow. The whold idea of EI is to keep no3, po4 in a range, but we do know that when nh3/nh4 is available we have problems. In a well planted tank since the uptake of nh3 is supposely quicker this usually isn't an issue so the tank can deal with having high light, etc.

My Scapes

Yeah, I guess yous are right

I'm still going to over filter my planted tanks though, in defiance of the King's proclamation, little fish or not...

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Back in the saddle!

All this is IMHO. Do as you wish, there is no harm in overfiltering. This all started with flow I belive. I don't think you need as much flow in a planted tank as you do in a nonplanted one. Media capacity and runthrough is bigger.

BTW Nowhere what filter are you using on the 65g?

My Scapes

I know I know, I'm just having a bit of fun.

For the 65 I'm pretty sure I have an eheim 2217 classic. I went for the classic style because I liked the idea of the water going in one end and coming out the other with no place to bypass within the filter. I had that problem with the ECCO - one section of the media would be clean all the way through , meaning the water wasn't going through the media as it was supposed to. I chose the size of the 2217 because I remember reading that Jeff Senske uses 2215s on a ~40G tanks, and since mine is more than 20G larger I figure why not go the next step up. The flow can be turned down easily enough, but I really want the bio-filtration surface area.

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Back in the saddle!

That's really funny, I went with the 2213 classic for my 46g. I also was going to purchase a 60cm tank, but decided for now to use my 46g since I already have lighting, etc.

It might be a bit small, but obviously I'm not worried about it. I really like my ecco, but wanted to see the difference first hand between the classic and ecco.


My Scapes

That's the spirit

At least we agree on something, being overfiltering is not a bad thing

Why not a Professional II guys? Too expensive?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Apologies to Ingo for thread hijacking...

Did you set up the 46G again? I thought that was going to be the SW tank


EDIT: Posted at the same time as Ingo - I agree with tetra, I wanted to see how well the classic cannister filter worked with the "in one way, out the other" structure of the filter. Heard lots of good things about them, and there really wasn't a ton of reason behind it besides that. The ones with the built in heaters were awfully tempting - ya know, anything to keep stuff out of the tank

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Back in the saddle!

Did you set up the 46G again? I thought that was going to be the SW tank

Well yeah, but the SW tank is definitely on hold for a while. I simply don't have a place to put it with the sump.
Sorry Matty!

The professional was tempting, but I was keeping the expense down. I'll probably go with one of those hydor inline heaters. I've heard good things and besides it will slow down the flow of my 2213

My Scapes

Sorry Ingo, I seemed to have sidetracked your thread for a bit here. But thanks to everyone who chipped in with filtering advice, which seems, in the end to be that yeah the 2026 might be ok, but more is better for the meatier fish.

I've checked the height of my cabinet & the height of the 2028. I have around 580cm (around 1ft 22 inches) and the 2028 needs 455cm (1 ft & 18 inches). Does that give me enough height for the hoses (so as they are not too bent over) and enough room for maintenance? Ingo, you have this on the 125g - what do you think?

I still don't know if I can swap it (or not) but if you guys think it will fit, I'm going to ask.

Thanks (sorry again for thread stealing Ingo)

EDIT: Correction to those measurements. I gave the height of my cabinet at the front edge, where there is a little extra piece of wood tacked in.

Inside the cabinet itself, I have just a touch over 2ft.

If you can, pls let me know if you think I have enough space for 2028.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I will have to go and do some comparison measurements later in the day to answer your question.

This would be the base facts that I have for you right now:

Height of the 2028 = 45,5 cm
Height of the 2080 = 56,7 cm --- so about 11 cm taller

The way the hoses come out seem to be of similar angle.

Is the back of your cabinet open or are there just a few holes in ther for all the tubing?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sorry Ingo,

I made an error. I know the 2080 will not fit, or rather that I think the fit is just too tight to work out. Having said that, if it did fit, that was my original choice, but I figure it's way too big for the space.

My questions in my last post should have been about 2028. So wherever I said 2080, I really meant 2028. Sorry to confuse the issue.

So if you're able to, could you pls look at your 2028 and see if you think I have enough clearance. I have 60.96cm in the main part of the cabinet. As I mentioned, at the very front of the cabinet, I lose a little height, due to a piece of wood being nailed in place there for the cupboard latches, but where the hoses are I have the full 60.96cm.

When I was originally going to buy the 2028 back in January, I decided myself that I did have space, but since you have one in action & therefore know how it works & how much room you need for for access space, I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.

My cupboard has a full back in it and the only holes are ones hubby makes for me, so I can get all the leads in & out.

Thanks Ingo.

Cheers
TW

Ok Robyn,

I did some measuring. The height from the top of my back opening to the bottom of the shelf on which the filter sits is 22", or about 56 cm.

As you can see, I have some "extra" space available. So I tried to gauge how much lower it could be, which is about 2", or a little over 5 cm less, totalling about 51 cm needed height of the top of the back opening. Reason why this has to be higher than the filter itself: The hoses come in in an upward angle.

Would that fit?

Ingo

Attached Image:

2028

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a newer picture, from yesterday, of the tank. I had added a few more clippings of NL Java Fern from the 125G to the wood in this tank about a week ago as the crypts on the left continued to melt, due to moving them.

Attached Image:

Full Tank Yesterday

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a "not-so-good" shot of the area just to the right of the wood in the back, not that visible when looking at the tank head-on.

There you see a collection of smaller crypts (Wendtii green and red), a newly added baby Tiger Lilly, and the Bolbitis roots affixed to a rock.

Attached Image:

Detail I

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the "Alternanthera Experiment"

It keeps on growing little by little, no leaves lost so far, and the plant is in there quite a while now. It lost a little of its color when compared to the 125G, but not too bad.

Attached Image:

Detail II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Wisteria in this tank is doing excellent so far, no die-offs to report and slow but healthy growth.

Here is a look at some of it, plus a male platy chasing a female

Attached Image:

Detail III

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, here is a close-up of the Fern Farm

Most of the wood is covered with NL Java Fern, the Bolbitis is visible on the right of this picture. It had collected a little of BBA and this has been treated yesterday with Excel, but it was not too bad anyway.

That's it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Detail IV

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Very nice pics LF. I especially like the fern farm & wish I could find NL here - but so far, it is nowhere to be found.

Thanks for the responses re the 2028, but I felt bad about sidetracking your thread, as the question seemed to be taking up too much room. So, I started a new thread here [link]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/33582.1.htm?0.653483# [/link]and continued the conversation there. If ever you have a spare moment, wondering if you might take a visit there.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW

Very little has changed in this tank over the last few weeks, here are a few notable differences:

- The Neon has gone to fish-heaven, he was dead when I came back from vacation (but still in one piece, so he must just have died). He was about 2 years old, I think that is pretty much in line, right?
- The Wisteria keeps on growing well.
- The Alternanthera started to grow, I assume it needed some serious time to settle. It probably doubled in size to maybe 5" since being added about 5 or 6 weeks ago.
- I received a Najas Indica during yesterday's NJAGC meeting and planted it for the time being to the right of the driftwood. I will see how it does.

That's it,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Last Night

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a look at the tank from today, all plants seem to be growing nicely.

Overall, the tank gives me pretty much no trouble at all and works well with its maintenance schedule of every other week.

Attached Image:

Full Tank This Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

If you look at the lower left area of the full shot then you note that I added some Anubias there. 3 Nanas were trades received from our NJAGC meeting this weekend (I handed in some fern), the two Nana Petites are from the 20G QT and originally also received via trade.

Attached Image:

Nanas

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Here is a closer look at the Alternanthera these days. I have to say that I am surprised to how well it does. Yes, it grows rather slow, but it still has its beautiful color. I guess one can say that it works well for medium light tanks.

Attached Image:

Alternanthera

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, here is a close-up of the Najas indica. Also a very pretty plant and growing at rather fast speed (for this tank). I am not certain what to do with it in the long run, but its fine leaf structure sure lends itself for a nano, so whoever has one, it may be worthwhile checking into this plant.

That's it for now, many more shots are in my other logs (all 4) in a few minutes,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Najas Indica

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Just a qick new full tank shot:

The nana petites that were parked on the left of the tank have been removed and added to the 125, the Najas indica has been trimmed a few times, part of the trimmings went to the 125 and the 20.

Growth is good the Alternanthera now really looks out of place, but I think I will soon conclude that growing this plant in this tank will work. I may remove it for now and maybe add a small group at the next redo.

The Wisteria is taking over all open spaces and needs a trimming soon as well.

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank Yesterday

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It is getting nicer and nicer everyday that I follow this thread./:'

Ingo , great shots as usual . I can smell another Ingo Style redo coming on here Love the way the wisteria works in this tank . Might try some myself .
Garry

Thanks niko001 and Garry for the input

I think the tank has reached the point where it cannot get much better with the current layout. From here on, all would just grow more, although that may be interesting as well.

At least the fact that it is a low tech tank with the resulting slow growth gives me some time before I would have to take any kind of action.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tank Update -

I ended the Alternanthera experiment yesterday. It had simply outgrown its position but it worked out quite all right, the plant was growing with slow speed (aka not much trimming needed) and lost only a few leaves at the bottom.

I would assume that it is not suitable in this tank if there were a few stems close to each other as shading would most likely cause more dead leaves in the lower areas, maybe sometime worth another experiment.

I actually moved into phase II, I left the lower part of the stem planted to see if new stems sprout out of it.

The Najas indica that I planted a while ago is doing very well in this tank, I trim it about every other week and replant the tops.

Here is a shot from last night, have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

June 16h, 2007

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Ingo , I really love the Najas Indica in this tank . Is there a common name for it? . My LFS always gets confused with scientific names

So can I just get something straight, the Alternanthera grew well in this low tech tank ? Now you are trying to grow some from a bottom cutting ?

Garry

I have to agree with Garry. That is the best looking most well behaved najas grass I have ever seen. More power to ya.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks guys for the input,

Garry - I don't know a common name for this plant, maybe Matty hinted to one when he called it Najas grass . I got mine, 3 small stems to be precise, during a plant swap of my local club meeting (see signature line).

The only downside I see with it is the planting. I have had no success yet getting two stems into the substrate at once, at least one will float back up. I am mostly convinced that this plant loves to float and doesn't seek a substrate to root.

Now you are trying to grow some from a bottom cutting ?

Well, yes, but more by degree of laziness . The plant was becoming too tall in the front and took away from the Najas view too much. But, not wanting to make much of a mess, I simply cut the stem about 2 inches above the ground and kept the stomp in there. In the worst case, I will remove it next week during the water change.

Oh, btw, with the Eheim 2026 on the tank I reduced water changes to 50% every 3 weeks.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just a quick update on the tank as of yesterday, 4 weeks after the last update.

Growth in a low tech tank, even with medium light, is really slooooooow. So, overall not much has changed. The Wisteria for some reasons is growing stronger in some stems than in others, not a problem though, just an observation.

Here is a full tank shot from last night:

Attached Image:

Tank 7/14/2007

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The Najas indicat is growing very fast though, it had to be trimmed twice in the last 4 weeks and most tall stems were added to the 125G when cut off here.

The Alternanthera, on the other hand, grows really slow, you may remember that I left about 2 inches of the stem in there after I cut off the top.

This is the growth I got from it in the last 4 weeks.

That's it, have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Alternanthera Growth

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Quick Update on this tank. Not much has changed, the Najas has been trimmed twice since the last shot, the Alternanthera is becoming visible again. Growth and losses are really slow, see the left side of the wisteria which is beginning to suffer from a lack of light.

Also, the platies are overpopulating the tank again.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

8/6/2007

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well,

I found a little time yesterday, about 8 hours to be exact, to do what I had in mind for this tank. Here is a shot beforehand:

Attached Image:

Tank I

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About 2.5 hours later, the tank looked like I just bought it. All useful plants where placed in a bucket, the top parts of the substrate where scooped up into another bucket (with as little of the gravel that I used as a bottom layer in the last layout), the rest was disposed of and the tank was cleaned.

Attached Image:

Tank II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Next up was the setup of some rock borderlines to divide the individual substrate areas. This was the easy part, LOL.

Attached Image:

Tank III

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This was followed by the careful placement of Eco Complete (the parts that were scooped out and saved) and Pool Filter sand, about an inch at a time of each, until the substrate was all in.

Attached Image:

Tank IV

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Next came the next, and almost final part, of the hardscape, some "twigs". It wasn't quite what I had in mind, but any other arrangement of the wood did not quite work out stable enough.

Attached Image:

Tank V

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Then came another painful step, about 20 Nana Petites (the ones I stored in the 125 for a while) where mostly attached to rocks and placed around the twig groups.

Attached Image:

Tank VI

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Then I painfully trimmed about 80 stems of pearl grass in the 125 and planted each top individually in this tank, followed by a few Wisteria stems and some Wendtiis (that probably may melt away) and that was the end of it.

Here is the tank,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank VII

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Wow still do the LF still makeovers!

It looks pretty good! Was it hard to keep the sand and eco separated? Any thoughts for moss/ricca on the twigs/rocks? That might look sharp.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

Thanks for the input. No - it wasn't all that hard to keep the eco and sand separated, only once in a while a little eco fell on the sand, but was scooped up quickly with a measuring spoon and disposed of.

Moss may be nice, I might do that at some point, but as we know moss spreads all over the place.

Riccia - probably not. After all, it is a low tech / low maintenance (as in infrequent ferts and Excel) tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Neat look LF. I like the sticks. The only think I can think of is that it needs some more tall plants to take a little focus of the wood.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

Thanks for the input. I am not so sure that I want to take the focus of the sticks, I kinda like the rather landscaped look (vs the aquascape). The sticks are the trees and they are surrounded by lower growing shrubs. If that makes any sense.

Anyway, here are a few more details:

Here is the left smaller planted group

Attached Image:

Left Group

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the right group. As you can see - I pretty much replicated the plants from the left over here as well (right Garry? - LOL ), or maybe I should say that I explicitly decided to have plants present in both groups.

Attached Image:

Right Group

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I still have to figure out the camera settings as the whitish sand makes all images so much brighter. Here is a look from the right side of the tank. You can see that the sand front is rather narrow.

Attached Image:

From The Right

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And yes, you may have noticed it in the last picture, I could not resist and planted my Alternanthera "Experiment" in the right side of this layout as well. It may not get enough light over there though, time will tell. I wouldn't mind if it stays small and short leaved, could be a nice alternative to other red plants.

Attached Image:

Alternanthera "Experiment"

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Last but not least, the head on shot of the full tank in the style that I usually use to present the tank. I am almost done cleaning up the mess I made while redoing this tank, LOL, just a few more buckets to clean.

Thanks for the input,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Frontal Shot

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi LF,

Nice to see you back in action. I really like it , along with my lip lick I will of course nit pick.

I think you've done a really nice job with the twigs positioning and the way they go over the valley in the middle. I agree keep the canopy kinda bear and thicken up the area around the base.

The only thing I would change is the position of the anubias at the end of the path on the left and right. It should be moved up near the where the path widens. This will create a better depth illusion. I would also vary the size of a few rocks to make it more natural looking. It looks more like a man-made path now.

Otherwise very nice!

Regards,
TT

My Scapes

Tetratech,

your nit picking is always welcome

I might agree with the Nana position, for now I will leave it as be so things can settle.

BTW - there are no fish in the tank yet, I am not sure I mentioned that.

Thanks for the comment, Jeff,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF, i love the new look of this tank, kinda gives it a wintery feel at the moment with nothing on the twigs. What kind of wood did you use btw?.... I like the contrast in the two gravel types and the seperation of the rocks. Again what kind of rocks are they?

Is all this going to stay low to the ground? Are we looking for a more sheltered look at this point?

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

What did you do with all the fishes??



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hey LF, just re-discovered this log. It had dropped off my active thread list.

Well, you beat me to it. My new planted tank (which is getting closer to reality) will have the sand contrast as well, although we will differ in our hardscape.

BTW, I love your hardscape. Those are great pieces.

And, yes, pls tell us all where your fishies are?

Cheers
TW

Who cares about the fishies?

Let's assume they went to another tank, ok?

Anyway, here is a quick update on how the tank looked last night, in case you care.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank 29

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LF,

This tank is looking killer! I really like it. So the fish are in another tank? Ok. I will leave it at that.

Do you have any plans for fish/shrimp in this tank? I don't seem to see anything moving around in there.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I don't seem to see anything moving around in there.

Well, I see one of my inhabitants, but it is hard to make out.

Two weeks back, during the last addition of a batch of Nana Petites that I received from a fellow NJAGC member, I inherited a juvenile Red Cherry Shrimp. He was in there by himself, with a bunch of snails, for over a week before I was able to capture a mature female Red Cherry Shrimp in the 40G, probably the last Cherry that was in there. I added her to this setup right away. Yesterday I went out and made some purchases, 3 shrimp that are either Red Nose Shrimp "Caridina gracilirostris" or Yellow Nose Shrimp "Xiphocaris elongata", and 5 Pygmy Cories "Corydoras pygmaeus".

Attached is a shot of one of the Nose Shrimp, she is pregnant but larvae is just like any other Caridina, aka brackish and salt.

Thanks for the compliment Wings,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Nose Shrimp

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Oh,

and to what critter was visible in the full shot, if you look up from the right section of where the sand hits the back wall, just in the area of where the stick ends, you see one of the Pygmy Cories.

Here is one, not such a great shot though.

Ingo

Attached Image:

Corydoras pygmaeus

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I kind of thought that was a fish but I had no idea what kind it might be.

How are you liking the Pygmy Cories? I thought about picking some up quite a while back and never did.

Neat shrimp too! I have looked at the red nosed shrimp before and thought they were pretty cool. Do you think yours will change into the reds or stay yellow? How are they at eating algae?

What type of moss do you have in there?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ingo,

The Pygmy cories are kewl, they have an otto sence to them, the black striping and the way they look. Totally awesome. So just to bring me up to date, you have the shrimp and pygmy cories in this tank.

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Shane,

The list of animals in this tank is in the same post than the one where I show the shrimp picture, just four up from here (or five, maybe, LOL). In short, yes, they are in this tank.

Wings and Shane,

The Pygmies are cool - and tiny, about half an inch max at this point. They are cute little buggers and - as I have been told before - are more of a midwater fish than other cories, at least when not threatened.

The shrimps have red nose tips, at least from some angles. I have heard that the Red Nose shrimp is very similar to the Yellow Nose, but seems to have more red in certain angles, in particular in pictures. They eat algae just fine, eat it of the branches and the sand.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Those are pretty sweet LF. I've been wanting a few of those. Well when I had a FW tank I did.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Wow Matty,

Did I miss an official announcement about you being a pure dark-side person now? What happened? Do you at least still have the frog?

When you say pretty sweet, you mean the cories, right? Or the shrimp?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

At first glance the cory looks like an oto. Nice shrimp, how big are those. In between Amanos and cherries? Those eyes are freaking me out, but to a fish it probably looks tasty.

My Scapes

Both are pretty dang sweet, though it was the cories I had always though about getting. We get them in our store from time to time. Now I just don't have a tank for fw fish.

Well a few of you freshies found out I had done some consolidation. There wasn't an announcement on my FW tank thread though.

I don't want to hijack your thread so I'll say it was a combination of not wanting to and being unable to take care of all my tanks for several reasons.

Since you ask, the poor frog died a while back due to a genetic disease called short tongue syndrome. Couldn't catch flies and slowly starved. It tore me up a bit to watch an animal in my care starve with nothing I could do, so I didn't want to post it.

I do still have my 5.5 cherry shrimp tank, though it's in much disarray, but has some new life in it: what I believe are two furcata rainbows. They are still a bit small to be 100%, but I'm at about 95% sure they are. I'll have to move them out of there eventually, or they'll eat my baby shrimps.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

At first glance the cory looks like an oto

Try working in a LFS when someone puts the two in the same tank! Makes it a mess trying to show them to some who doesn't really know what either are. We wont even talk about trying to catch them.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks guys for the input,

See, I actually don't think that the Cories look like Otos, maybe because I have never seen such a tiny Oto. Even in the LFS Otos are about 1 inch plus and these guys are half that size at best.

The Red/Yellow Nose shrimp are in size between Amano and Cherry, that is correct. At least that is what I see now. I remember when I got my Amanos, they were about the same size than these guys. Now they are, at least in the 40G, tanks .

BTW, I found another cherry in the 40G last night and successfully fished it out and transferred it into this tank.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo , How did I miss this ,
Simply stunning . I love it . Can't wait to see this scape mature , will be very interested
in how the hardscape holds up as the plants grow .Particularly the driftwood as ATM I
think the stark look is amazing .I also love the way you have the river going straight back
and ending in a beach , I think it gives good depth . I sometimes think thats what I should
have done with mine instead of going for an angle which dissappears as the plants grow.


The corys are great looking little fellas as well . As a recent convert to the cory world I
must say those little guys look cute . Do they school like the other types ? Mine just pile
in on top of on another .

I will certainly be checking this log more often now .
Thanks for the inspiration.

Garry

Ps I think I need another tank , better start working on the wife .

Garry,

My current vision with this tank is that the plant growth will be held in check by trimming to be about the same as it is now.

The only plants that I really care to work their way around naturally is the moss (Wings - forgot that in an earlier response, it is Flame Moss). It is starting to attach itself to the branches with I think is great, I just have to make sure that I don't create too much shading for the other plants.

All other plants, in particular the HM, are only meant to form a more natural appearance, like hanging over the rocks etc.

And overall, my shots of this tank in full really suck, either too red or too green. I will try to get better shots soon. The tank is actually prettier when seen directly. Well, with the exception of the sand that is, there is a little BGA on it and a lot of poop form the snails/shrimp/fish .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo

Thanks for the answers on that. I love those cories. Any chance you can tell us where you got them? I would love to see if i can get them round here. Do you know what the latin name for them is?

Anyways please keep posting on this tank

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Shane,

I got the Cories in my LFS, that would be in NJ. I take it that this would be a looooong trip for you

The Latin name of Pygmy Cories is, tata, Corydoras pygmaeus. Wasn't that hard to find out, the internet is your friend

Thanks for the input and the encouragement to keep on posting, I will try to get better tank shots soon,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Heyah,

Look what I just got in the mail for this tank:



Attached Image:

Uuuuuuhhhhh

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just don't break it like tetra did. Wait was it tetra? I think it was.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

By the shape of the funnel I could tell it's the Cal Aqua one's. Yeah Wings I did break mine, but Cal Aqua sent me another one for the cost of shipping.

I really like them, but for some reason the intake I received (and I don't know if it was an early production model or a different size)had large holes that trapped and killed 3 of my Otos. I could see the one you got LF has the smaller holes, so it won't be a problem.

Now this tank has a glass top doesn't it. So what is LF up to now with these lily pipes.

My Scapes

Now this tank has a glass top doesn't it. So what is LF up to now with these lily pipes.

Well the last I knew, LF had a Aquaclear filter on this tank. My guess is that he is going to change it out to a canister and add Co2.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well, Jeff you seem to have started a trend here at FP with these cal aqua lily pipes. Mine 2 sets are still packed neatly in their box, but hope to put them to use soon.

Good luck with them LF. I think they look nice.

Cheers
TW

Thanks folks for the input

Before I forget it, this is from an entry I made on page 12 of this log, from March 17th, stating "I added the 2026 filter to the tank"
The intake is also clearly visible in each shot of the full tank

This filter, btw, has not even been cleaned once ever since, not even after or during the redos. I think it will see a little cleaning this weekend though.

tetratech - the back part of the tank has the plastic strip and I plan on adding both in and outflow in that area, to the left side. Yeah, my holes look rather small to me and I don't think a fish/shrimp would fit through it.

Not to downplay tetratech's influence on lots of things I do with my tanks, the pipes are not part of that. This has been inspired by actually seeing them in action in the tanks of a few of my fellow NJAGC buddies.

I truly hope I don't break them when I add them to the tank, most likely today

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Not to downplay tetratech's influence on lots of things I do with my tanks, the pipes are not part of that. This has been inspired by actually seeing them in action in the tanks of a few of my fellow NJAGC buddies.

Just so I get this right. Is there anything super special about these other than them looking really cool?

Before I forget it, this is from an entry I made on page 12 of this log, from March 17th, stating "I added the 2026 filter to the tank"
The intake is also clearly visible in each shot of the full tank

I guess my attention to detail is rather limited these days.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Is there anything super special about these other than them looking really cool?

Well, if I go by what my NJAGC members tell me then the water flow seems to be distributed by the funnel very nicely, causing a good mix within the tank.

Otherwise, they look cool and are less offensive inside the tank than a gray spraybar and intake.

I guess my attention to detail is rather limited these days.

Don't worry Wings, so is mine, with the exception of this tank. All others are blah-blah

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Not to downplay tetratech's influence on lots of things I do with my tanks, the pipes are not part of that. This has been inspired by actually seeing them in action in the tanks of a few of my fellow NJAGC buddies

So do you have enough room to put the on the side where the strip would go so the funnel faces side to side vs back to front? If not I guess you could corner it. You could also completely remove the glass top. I've had no issues with my 46g with the top remove and the light on legs. One additional benefit of the lily pipes is that the opening for the return water is on the bottom of the funnel. And since the funnel is large the opening for the water sits far below the tank edge. Is allows alot of evaporation before air mixes with the return water hurting co2 levels.

My Scapes

So do you have enough room to put the on the side where the strip would go so the funnel faces side to side vs back to front?

That's what I am hoping for

I actually haven't measured it yet, but I am sure i will come up with something.

I don't think I will go without a glass top, I don't like too much evaporation. I saw what a difference this makes on the 40G where I easily lost about 2 to 3 gallons a week when not using a top. In this tank that would be 10%.

Hey, here is another look at the Red or Yellow Nose Shrimp, turning the tides towards the notion that they are Red Nose:

Attached Image:

Shrimpster

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And here is a look at the group of Pygmy Cories, during their "every-other-day" feeding. Usually they hang in gangs of 2 or 3, or even by themselves, but feeding brings them together.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Da Gang

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Quick Update,

Well, that didn't work out the way I thought. In particular the inflow looks rather weird on this tank, sticking way too wide into the water column and away from the side, bummmer.

In addition, I sure had placement issues, just like tetratech hinted to. I am not willing to remove the top and as such found a compromise, I just use the outflow pipe and I placed it on the other side of the tank (right). I didn't cut the hose from the filter and as such a switch back to the Eheim system can be easily accomplished (I hope).

Here is a quick shot of the tank,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Half Hearted Attempt

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*sigh* this is just gorgeous, ingo, i absolutely love it.

justin

Thanks Justin,

Glad you like it. I decided to keep the setup with only the uptake pipe from Cal Aqua and may use the inflow in another tank at some other tank.

Here is a picture taken this morning,

Ingo

Attached Image:

For The Time Being

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey,

Maybe you like this cropped version better, let me know what you think about it.

Ingo

Attached Image:

Same Image - Different Crop

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo , actually I think the uncropped version is better , gives the tank a little more volume
if you know what I mean .
This shot is a little too red though , a white balance issue maybe ?. The colour on the
previous shot looks more natural . I always have problems getting that part right in my shots .

I'm interested in your comment that you are going to keep all the plants low .
Does that include background plantings as well ?


Garry

Garry,

Thanks for the input. You nailed the white balance thingy on the head . I was playing with taking RAW shots and that is what happened, LOL. I usually find my shots too green because of the 6,700K lighting, this time I went too far into the red when picking my "white" spot in the picture. I promise I will keep on working on it.

With regards to the plants. Yup, all that grows on the bottom will stay low, with the exception of the single Alternanthera in the right corner (growing reaaaaalllly slowly) and the few Wendtiis in both back corners. Height is supposed to be achieved by the plants on the sticks, aka Petites and Flame Moss.

Thanks for the input,

Ingo

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Ingo , Ok , I didn't look hard enough at the Driftwood sticks ,I get it now .
The tank will look like this for a long time at that rate of growth .

On the Camera issue , I have the same problems , which I deal with partly thru
white balance in the camera and partly thru post processing. Takes a bit of time
and I don't always get it right either


Garry

Nice change. What type of moss is that? Fissidens?

Ingo

I love the look you have with this tank. The twigs of DW plus the flame moss really do make it look like the wood is on fire. Awesome look. Whats the full name for the petites. I cant see them well enough to really know what they are.

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Here is another lousy look at the tank.

The moss is Flame Moss and the petites are called Anubias nana petite.

Just a picture,

Ingo

Attached Image:

11/10/2007

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Hi,
Is that pieces of Flame Moss in clumps scattered in the
foreground?
IMO, I don't think I like them there, it obstructs
the beautiful carpet that is growing along the substrate
and the view toward the rear of the tank.

Frank



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Flame moss!!!, i can see it now. I agree with frank on it obstructing the foreground, but it still looks good to me. You could move the all of the flame moss to the rest of the space left on the branches and get a low growing variety of moss or another type of plant.

Ingo , Whats lousy about it ? This is a stunning design and I for one would like some closeups and views from some different angles . So how about it give us a closer look .
Garry

I can really tell now that you have flame moss up front. Before I thought it was Hair grass. I also think it is a little bit distracting.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Here is another lousy look at the tank.

Oh your just asking for trouble by saying that.


My Scapes

A little update with a few pictures.

The tank has seen its share of neglect over the last few weeks, so lots of stuff has surpassed the tolerated levels. Here is a shot from earlier this weekend.

Attached Image:

Bad Ingo

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I also played for a while with a white background, that is what you see in that last shot.

Here is a look at the BGA invested foreground.

Attached Image:

BGA on Sand

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This is the tank after much needed maintenance, many trims and the addition of Maracyn into the sand had happened.

Attached Image:

After Cleanup

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Here is a series of pictures of the tank's shrimpsters.

First one the younger Red Cherry Shrimp marching over the BGA invested sand

Attached Image:

RCS

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A look at the RCS and a new shrimp, the CRS, side by side. Overall I got 4 CRSs on Friday.

Attached Image:

CRS and RCS

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Here is a closer look at a CRS by itself, mine of course are non-special bread and do not have the extreme beauty others do, but good enough for me.

Attached Image:

CRS

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