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Cat , love the shots of the M. ramirezi . Very nice fish , trust they will fall in love .

Like what you have done with the trimming .
Still think you need a big bunch of Swords or Vals in the rear . I would fill up the left side.
You could get a very nice look with Vals or Large Crypts in groups in the Mid ground as well .
Check out this site's Gallery .
http://www.aquariumdesigngroup.com/
Some great ideas here .

Hope this helps

Garry

Hi Garry,

I am getting better taking shots of fish, apparently not with the tank and plants. The right side and the middle back portion of the tank are stuffed. Really, I planted all the cut off tops there. The right side is still sparse but that is due to several big swords and I am reluctant to plant very dense because of them. I added some more plants that are not in the tank shot when the photo was taken, here they are
Nice Windelov to the left next to HM. I hope it will grow!
Bronze Crypt in front section middle/right with an SAE giving it a first cleaning


Unfortunately, there were no forground plants in decent condition available. I guess I have to be patient with Lilaeopsis, it is a VERY slow grower! Any suggestions here? Tenellus is sending out runners and so do dwarf sags but L is just hanging in there

Well, the aquascape might be an eyesore to some, but the rams like it and they spawned already! I am not holding my breath for surviving wrigglers as the other inhabitants are already watching ...

The rams were supposed to go to the 10 G for breeding - I had many successful spawns as well as hatching in the past in this tank. They will move soon as they will spawn again soon.

On a sad note: I lost one of the two surviving cories , as usual without any signs of ill health

Well, the aqua scape might be an eyesore to some

Why do you say that? I like what you've done with it

Good luck with the spawn.

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn, this is very kind of you!
I am a bit annoyed with myself (and the lack of a grand layout idea), plus the lack of growth of the foregound plants is getting on my nerves. Wisteria could also do a bit better ... on the other hand, and of course, the lower life forms are perking up!!!

On top of this, my SAE decided to forget about their middle initial and to go by SE instead. Brine shrimps and pellets are so much more to their liking!

(and their is an 'Error on page' which does not allow me to insert any smilies and pictures!). Not that I am in the mood for a traditional smilie, the grumpy and upset version would be a more appropriate choice ...

Oh well, the first spawn of the little female ram and her eager spouse turned into a much welcomed meal - as expected. I did another 30% water change during the week followed by the ususal one yesterday. Apparently, I introduced the "discus rage" virus as the primadonna discus who is lowest on the totem pole decided that enough is enough and started kicking back with a vengeance. By now, the tail fin of my smallest blue diamond is nipped and the fish is still on a rampage!! I might as well head for the medicine cabinet for prophylactic treatment against infection.

Cat , Hope I didn't give you the impression that your tank doesn't look good .
Sorry if thats the case.
It looks fantastic , my suggestions are just that .
I got a lot of advice ,ideas and help from this forum but I didn't take it all on board .
I like Robyn think you're doing a fantastic job and it will only look even better with time .

Keep your chin up !!!!!

Garry

Ahhhhh!

Garry, please! I WANT criticism, what are you apologizing for!

Due to the aforementioned change in diet of the SAE another trip to the LFS was in order:


These little guys are right now the riot of the tank, constantly up and down. They look like offspring of the SAE. They appear a bit oiverwhelmed by the culinary possibilities


I decided not to trim the stem plants this weekend but allow them to grow a bit more. The rotala is getting bushy and there are nice side shots visible, L. repens is also stretching. The foregound, however, is still pretty bare. A picture of the 'mobbing victim' at the end:

CD

A Fabulous tank you have here. I have no idea how you get the rams to live. i really need some help on that. Anyways I love the tank and the colors of the plants and fish.

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Shane,

thanks for your kind words. I have kept and spawned M. ramirezi (the 'German' ram) for many years during the first phase of my fish addiction and now again. I find them actually not difficult to keep, however, there are a few things to pay attention to:

1) These fish can be heavily inbred rendering them very susceptible to disease. I have seen plenty of washed out looking, slightly deformed fish at stores. Stay away from those! What you want is a fish that has a bright yellow color with black, blue and pinkish (if it is a female) undertones. If the fish are more yellowish-white, pass them on. The stomach of the fish should not be curved in and the fish should appear inquisitive and lively.

2) Rams do best in planted tanks with fairly soft, slightly acidic water. I say 'fairly' as they can live in moderately hard water very well. One of my canister filters contains peat. The water temperature should be relatively high, low to mid 80s. My fish spawn regularly in a 10 gallonpartially filled with RO water.

3) These fish are senstitive to nitrates. You want to keep the nitrate between 10 - 20. If you notice changes in behaviour (for example hiding of otherwise actively swimming fish) get the test kit out and get redy for a water change.

4) They can live well on flakes, but will be so much hardier if provided with frozen foods. These little guys are carnivores. Mine eat frozen brine shrimp, mysis shrimp, bloodworms and beefheart aside from pellets.

Hope this helps and good luck!

CD

That helps alot. I think it was the nitrates that have killed them in the past. What kind of peat are we talking about in the Filter and how do you know how much to use to lower the PH. I had my rams live for about 3-4 weeks before they passed on last time which is longer than any other time. I may try again after i can get some of the fish out of my 35 Gallon

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Shane:

I have an Eheim filter and am using the Eheim filter moss. One package goes per filter, I never noticed that this peat colors the water. Basically, you can use one pack for your tank as well. Now, I know that some of the commercial breeder/importer in my area use the Hagen peat granules, which supposedly are much more efficient to lower the pH. However, they color the water, a NO if you are concerned about light getting to demanding plants (Ingo's experience with his Alternanthera reineckii as an example). What is the pH of your water? it is quite possible that you do not have to do anything!

PH is 7.6 - 7.8 depending on which tank i use because the parents have a water softener which lowers the PH

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Week 5 after makeover:

I did not trim the plants last week. The tank before trimming:


The hygrophila polysperma (what a shock when I found out that it is considered an intrusive plant ) has reached the surface and I am suspecting that it added to the lack of growth problem of the wisteria next to it. Here is the tank after the 'cut':


What else: I changed the lighting cycle from 9 hours without a break (4.5 hours with 260 W, the remaining time 130 W only) to 5 hours in the morning, starting with 2 hours at 130, 2.5 hours full power and 0.5 hour 130 W followed by 3 hours of lights out. Then another light cycle of 0.5 hour 130, 4 hours full power and 0.5 hours 130 W again.

Some more plants were added: R. wallichii, another C. wendtii, this time the bronze colored cariety. A couple of weeks ago I had place a request for L. repens 'rubin' or Alternanthera reineckii with my LFS. Well, something went wrong and they got R. macrandra!!!

As soon as I entered the store a sales person jumped at me to ask me take those plants of their hands ... I ended up with 3 x of them, paid for only two. Half of the plants were mush when I got home ... and 50% of the R. wallichii had lost ALL leaves! Not to mention that these plants are not exactly easy to keep and I am a newbie at planted tanks

Here is a pic of the Crypt and the 'Red Butterfly'
These are the shortest ones (I had to cut most of the stems due to condition of leaves and stems)
The Indian intruder cuttings will make their way to the LFS tomorrow - apparently it is okay to sell as long as one does not transport across state lines. The plant is also sold by various companies and Amano uses it in some of his set ups. No problem here if some blooming ... releases it into the wild, the winter will take care of it...

catdancer, Tank looks fantastic . Like the look of the red plants as well , even if they are not the right ones
(Don't you hate it when LFS's get it wrong).
You have got C02 and plenty of light so they might be ok , hope so .
So it take it from what you said about the Hygro that you are pulling it out . What are you going to replace it with ?
You need some fast growers, if not Hygro are you going to rely on the Wisteria or get something else for the Hygro?

Does the Angel get along with the Discus btw?

Love the Photos well done , love to see some shots of the other inhabitants .

Garry

Tank looks fantastic . Like the look of the red plants as well , even if they are not the right ones

Like an exploded flower bed!

(Don't you hate it when LFS's get it wrong).

What upset me the most is the fact that they were waiting for me to show up instead of calling to let me know that they got them in! When I finally did they've been tightly wrapped with plant weights in a low light tank for almost 3 weeks (Past experience told me to wait for a phone call, plus the store is located in a suburb)
The discus and the angel get along very well. There is no aggression between these fish despite the fact that the angel is fully grown. Thinking about getting some 'round fish' yourself?

I am not replacing the hygro - the cuttings will go to the LFS, I would not dare to take out these fast growers, at least not at this point. Besides, I think this is a nice plant. Now, if only the Wisteria, Ludwigia and Rotala would grow faster ... Stargrass would be nice and C. balansae to replace the Vals, but I don't want to place another order with the LFS.

Despite the light and CO2 I am concerned about the Macrandra, I read that this is a notoriously difficult plant to keep!

Pics of other inhabitants coming soon! Any layout suggestions?

Wow, your tank is really coming along. Looks beautiful. Those splashes of red really brighten it up. Hope the Macrandra works out for you, as Gary says, you have the light & the C02 so all might be ok.

Just curious - what is your water change routine (eg, how much / how often).



Cheers
TW

CD

You never did tell me about my PH and the RAMs lol. I would love to have some of your giant HYgro if you can send me some. I have also noticed that the Wysteria has slowed down its growth in my tank.

Also i would suggest maybe

http://www.azgardens.com

&

http://www.floridadriftwood.com

instead of your local LFS for plants.

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Fishmonster,

sorry that I left you in the dark re the rams - without any intention! I am a bit confused reading your log: are you having trouble with the Blue "German" ram or the Bolivian ram? Your pH is too high for the blue ram, they really prefer slightly acidic water! The Bolivian is considered to be a bit more tolerant, however, I do not have any experience with this fish myself. If I were you I would get the Hagen peat granules and test what they do to the water. Discus breeders in my area praise them!

Thanks for your suggestions re plants - I arrived at this conclusion when it comes to plants that are a little bit out of the ordinary. LFS do not carry them and if they do, usually you get them in pretty bad condition beyond the point of return. However, I got a deal with my LFS (the sales person responsible for plants): they get my trimmings and in return they try to order what I want for free. Not bad, I think. Aside from this I am waiting for Robyn's report re plants from aquaticmagic, an eBay seller in Malaysia who sells also hard ware at very good prices. Other members have also ordered from this guy and have only good things to say (he has very nice and hard to come buy needle leaf java fern, etc). Problem with most online companies are shipment charges, I used to order with very good experience from www.aquariumplants.com, but it is worth only if you order a lot.

I do not have giant hygro, what you see is hygrophilia polysperma which is considered an invasive weed. You are allowed to sell within the state but not across state lines. Personally, I would not mind to send some trimmings at all ... tell you what, try to get it locally, I got mine without realizing what it is from an aquarium society (across state line)

Thanks for reply CD, i was just trying to find out what you were wanting to tell me..hehe

Anyways I am currently having troubles with my Bolivian Rams but i have tried to keep German Blues in the past to no avail. The longest i have been able to keep them have been a month. So I was trying to find out ways to keep them. Thats when my troubles with my bolivians started. So I will keep an eye on those. I will also look for the Giant Hygro in my local LFS

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Shane:

Just in case this did not transfer well: the plant in my tank is NOT the giant hygro (Hygrophila corymbosa), but the Indian swamp weed (Hygrophila polysperma). There is a narrow leaf variety of H. corymbosa available, but I have something different! H. corymbosa is not considered an invasive species and should be available at most stores (f not, they can order from their supplier)

Update week 8:

I did not trim last week as I wanted to give the plants a bit more time to fill in and the hygro is wanted by the LFS...
Very positive development since the introduction of my new lighting schedule; almost all algae on plants s gone, I saw it melting away. there is some fluff left on the intake of the Eheim but I do not care much - the algae eaters need something to munch on. The Rotal Indica is finally filling in and the tops are turning a nice pink, the tenellus is sending out runners and the R. wallichii which I acquired in exchange for trimmings is doing surprisingly well! Aside from being 'trimmed' by my one remaining flag fish lady!!! If she continues she will have to relocate.
HM is also growing, I hope to get a nice ground cover on the left side. the only problem is (as expected) the r. macrandra. Further nvestigation re requirements showed that this plant does not like it hot! I had reduced the temperature a bit, but it is still out of the range this plant is considered to be comfortable at. Supposedly higher temperatures will result in melting of the delicate leaves and I can see that taking place. I guess, only time will tell. the primadonne discus is back on the bottom of the totem pole, harrassed by the bigger of the blue discus (only at feeding time, though). Here are the photos, first of the tank before and after trimming

Does anyone know if lily pipes are available in clear plastic instead of glass? The intake of the filstar is a true eyesore.
Now some shots of the plants, first the r. Indica tops and another one

Now the tenellus and the brown wendtii which is also adjusting nicelysome of the plants on the left side of the tank

Cat WOW, the Tank is starting to really look fantastic .
The Tennulus looks set to take off and should provide lots of groundcover .
I'm glad to hear your Algae problems are under control . I've taken your
advice and changed my lighting schedule to something similar to yours .
Thanks for that advice .

The r. Indica looks fantastic as well , hope it continues to go well for you .

Look forward to seeing more shots as the tank grows in .
Well done .

Garry

Garry,

thanks for your encouraging comments. The tenellus is actually looking much better than in the picturse with many shots spreading. There is even an intruder on the left side of the tank which I will put back where it belongs! I had to start with fertilization several times a week (sticking to Seachem for the time being as I am too busy to figure out other fert regimens for the tank). Results were quickly achieved as the tops of the R. Indica turned nicely pink and the leaves strated to grow bigger again.

I am looking for suggestions of plants to replace the vals with? I took out a bunch of them on the weekend for the LFS and they are spreading again like mad (despite excel ...). Two pics of other inhabitants - the first of this brute of SAE and the second of the bravest representative of my school of rummy nose tetras

Guys,

I am beyond excitement: my discus have spawned!

Below a pic of one of the parents guarding the eggs ... no optimism that fry will hatch, a lot of the eggs are already whitish and it is possible that I have two ladies as well! I did not notice the spawn until I did my weekly big water change so I don't have a clue when the couple started with reproduction. Nevertheless, I am HAPPY! Apparently the discus like the conditions in their home and I am doing something right

Claudia , Well done . Its just the biggest thrill As I'm sure your now well aware.
If they are new to parenting it may take them a while to get the hang of it , but you never
know . You may be a proud parent sooner than you think.

Could be very lucrative as well

Anyway good luck

Garry

wow Claudia, that is so great. Be sure to keep us posted. It will be great to see, them hatch, but I guess the parents will have to be execellent guarders, to save them from your other hungry fish in there.

Fingers crossed they are up to the task.

The best thing though is, as you say, they must really like their home. Good job

Cheers
TW

Thanks guys-

my cobalt blue/pigeonblood love birds have to go to parenting school!
In the meanwhile until their graduation I am trying to figure out the dynamics within the discus group to understand the social behavior and what I actually have in the tank with respect to gender distribution. Any input welcome!
Here we go: Currently there are 4 discus in the tank: no1 which is the big red pigeonblood shown guarding the eggs. This fish is the one the remaining 3 are interested in getting close and in its good graces. Nobody challenges this fish.
Primadonna is the small red pigeonblood and lowest ranking on the totem pole. Everybody chases and bites the poor thing who nevertheless, tries and tries again. Large cobalt blue is the fiercest enemy! This is also the one that is frequently swimming with no1 and was participating in fanning of eggs and protection from other fish. However, this guy (?) is still holding its options open! Most of the time with no1 but can be distracted by small cobalt who tries to lure him/her away from no1. Works, once in a while.

1) no1 is female and all others are male with Primadonna being the lowest ranking male

2) no1 is female and so is the small cobalt blue. primadonna and big cobalt are males; would explain their aggressiveness toward each other from early on

3) all are female except the small cobalt who is not at the height of his virility (yet), thus ignored as a potential breeding partner by all the girls


I am clueless

Your tank looks gorgeous

Congrats on the discus spawn! You must be doing everything right!

><>

Aside from discus psychlogy:

the Indian swamp weed was trimmed again and two giant vals went to the LFS in exchange for C. balansae. I also planted another C. wendtii (red) in the foreground and some Pilipis (?) diandra to make up for the majority of the heat sensitive R. macrandra. R. rotundifolia and E. tenellus are growing nicely, the first with pink tops, close to a trimming next weekend, the latter forming a nice carpet in the foregound. The big red C. wendtti is growing one (long) leaf after the other. No algae anymore!

Hey CD you can always send me your trimmins. BTW congrats on your breeding. You are doing an awesome job. I cant wait to see new babies

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Quick update:

exactly 8 days after their first attempt my big pigeonblood discus and the Big Blue one did it again: They spawned!!

The gender mystery is also solved: Pigeonblood is the dad (!) and Big Blue is mom, cute little teenage girl.

Now I will have to substantiate my plan of a 29 G bridal suite for the happy couple as they are serious about each other ... Planted, of course this is supposed to be fun and I have no intention to join the legion of bare bottom semi-commercial fish breeders .
Pics to follow

A little bit more than 24 hours after spawning:

Some of the eggs are affected by fungus (clearly the parents have to learn ...) and 'the heat is on' with the other inhabitants showing increasing interest.

First a pic of the spawn: this picture was actually taken 3 hours after spawning and all eggs look nice!
Mom making sure that everything is okay . Unfortunately, dad is not (yet) up to the task to remove eggs affected by fungus without removing adjacent healthy ones ... just learned from an experienced discus breeder that 'teenage couples' can require 5 to 6 spawns for hatching and mucus development to feed the fry. Way to go

Could be very lucrative as well

Garry, you would think so considering the prices discus fetch. However, it requires a dedicated set up and a lot of time to successfully rear larger batches of fry. I visited a semi-commercial breeder yesterday and was told that it is still not more than a hobby that supports itself and does not provide a real plus (and he has about 30 tanks!) and does some import as well.
I bought two discus from him (a 5.5" blue diamond male and a gorgeous, slightly smaller red turquoise female). They are currently hanging out in the quarantine tank together and appear already very fond of each other

Here is a picture of a inhabitant who managed to avoid the camera for a long time. The only ancistrus in the tank


Plants continue to do well with some of the melting R.macrandra recovering, new growth is bright red




and even the new leaves of the originally dull colored C. wendtii are turning a brighter red

I owe Robyn an apology for not responding to her question in a more timely manner :

Just curious - what is your water change routine (eg, how much / how often).

Nothing special, really. I do 30% every weekend with a thorough siphoning of the substrate (a nightmare thanks to Eco-complete compared to gravel!) and a smaller, about 10% change midweek with siphoning of the gravel as well. What I have increased is fertilization due to plant growth, but again, nothing sophisticated like EI or something like that. I am a dedicated fan of Seachem products and use them as recommended and so far, the plants like it! Any suggestions and constructive criticism welcome.

You were talking earlier of a honeymoon tank for the parents? Any plans on that yet? Also how many pair do you have in this tank?

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Shane:

That's a good question! I just introduced the two discus I bought from the breeder(female blue turquoise and male Cobalt blue; pics to follow) . I know that I have one confirmed pair - the eggs (eaten again) were showing signs of pigmentation. Introduction of Miss Blue Turquoise and of Mr Blue revealed the gender identity of the remaining stock: Primadonna (the little dirty red) is male and so is small cobalt blue. The latter is trying to convince blue turquoise of his charm and good looks. Too cute, he is half her size.
So, if everything works out, I might have two pairs in the tank. The honeymoon suite for my big pigeonblood and his bright blue bride is going to materialize soon. I don't know if a log about breeding would be appreciated, though ...
I already ordered the lighting and the filter, space for the tank is available. I'd say two weeks from now! Thanks for checking in. Need trimmings and how is your tank going???

my tanks is okay now i found the problem with the leeching calcium. But i need to add more plants to the tank. I am currently growing some cuttings and other plants in my 10 gallon ready to transplant to the tank once the have grown some

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

So what was behind the mystery of increasing pH and hardness? I followed your log and am curious to learn.

Hi Claudia

Conditions must be great in your tank, cause for sure romance seems to be going strong

I'm with you on discus being hard work for breeding - that's why my divided tank is for apisto love birds, and not discus. I've bought several recently written discus books & everything I read on discus fry rearing talks of bare bottom tanks, water changes after each feed & it seems all work, work, work. Even with all the work, it seems you still will not make money on your discus - if you are lucky you will break even, but certainly not to expect more.

Thanks for the info on your water change routine.

Your plants are really looking great & your R.macrandra is looking very pretty. Your crypt too.

How do you like the eco complete? I almost went with that in my new tanks. I bought it & it's sitting in the garage, but in the end I went out & bought the ADA asquasoil instead. When I get around to it, I'll sell the eco complete on ebay (I won't be allowed any additional tanks, so it's no point keeping it).

Look forward to checking in next time, to see how the love birds in your tank are doing & what they're up to.

Have fun.

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,

thanks for popping in. I think I inflicted mayhem and made the love birds a bit unhappy by introducing the recently purchased discus couple. They are big fish and were extremely cramped in the quarantine tank. As they displayed a healthy appetite and curiosity I decided to move them already. So much for my quarantine principles

I am intend to set up a discus bridal suite based on my previous experience with other cichlids - if the couple is constantly spawning they are a burden to the other inhabitants and in the long run you have unhappy fish as they do not succeed in rearing their young (or maybe it is me who feels for them watching doomed attempt after doomed attempt). I might go with plants in shallow pots to keep the cleaning easy. The breeder I visited had some of his tanks set up like that AND he has a 100 G living room tank with several breeding pairs that is fully planted and raises the fry successfully. This is proof and I believe that it is possible to rear discus fry in planted tanks - just not in large numbers and I have no intention to do so (I have a job ). I wa also told tht the color of the young ones will be 'dirty' pigeonblood (balck markings like dust particles, personally I think this looks attractive).

Eco-Complete: I like it for the look, though it is a bit arteficial (where do you find an all black bottom in the wild?) What I do not like is the difficulty keeping it clean! I siphon uneaten food and you-know-what twice a week and it was soo much easier with gravel! Due to the small grain size of individual particles you always disturb the upper layer even if extremely careful. The plants do very well, though. On the other hand it is hard to tell how much the substrate contributes to it with all the fertilization and light.

What made you decide to go with ADA aquasoil instead of Eco?

Claudia

Wish I could link to that discus forum I visit. If I could, I'd show you some pics of a member's tank who has the perfect compromise between a bare bottom & planted tank. He has great pieces of driftwood, some quite large, others small. He has heaps of plants attached here & there to the driftwood, as well as some potted plants here & there. Actually looked really nice & was something I could consider doing in the future.

I decided on the aquasoil as I've used it before. It's the substrate in my 20G & 23G tank. Love how it keeps the pH buffered low & the water soft - perfect for apisto breeding. Love how it looks too, even if dark substrates aren't natural looking, it's the look I like best. When tetratech showed us his new igwami (spelling???) style tank & he was using aquasoil, that was the final thing that pushed me away from eco & back to ADA.

Good luck with your bridal suite

Cheers
TW

Claudia

Beleive it or not, both the petrified wood and the river rocks were leeching the calcium. So i ended up removing both of them. So now i have just the eco complete in there. I may have to hold off on the tanks for a while as i damaged my car last night and so i have to pay for repairs.

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Wish I could link to that discus forum I visit

right click, save target on your computer nad paste here! It will work

Love how it keeps the pH buffered low & the water soft

this was the only reason I briefly considered buying it for my tank but then I checked the price on the ADA web site and decided otherwise as I got a good price from my LFS for Eco. I was declared borderline insane for paying what I did for the Eco ("for dirt", his words, not mine) Plus, I am still considering getting a real RO/DI installed to replace the cheap mini-version that I purchased for my Apisto breeding tank. An exquisite pain as it produces only minimal amounts over a considerable period of time and requires constant adjustment of flow rate, I also hauled RO water home from the lab.

Love how it looks too,

Hmm, here I have to admit that I never saw Aquasoil live, from the pictures it looks pretty much like Eco to me.

So you think the slowness of my java fern is due to lack of CO2 injection? Maybe I have to be just a bit more patient?

I am not happy with the new discus and consider returning them to my LFS, especially the male! I will post pics and would appreciate a second opinion but these fish compare poorly to the ones I already had.

get going on your new tanks!!!

Gee, Shane!

Sorry to hear about your car. Hope you are alright. What a bummer.
Calcium from petrified wood - who would have thought that. good to know that this is possible - I will check the few pieces that I have in my 20 G breeder.

Hope the repair will not hit you too hard.

Claudia

right click, save target on your computer nad paste here! It will work

It's not that I don't know how to link, but that usually if I try to post a link from an Aussie on-line LFS, or another forum, it get's censored out. Doesn't happen with other links, (eg linking the tropica riccia info last night) Not sure why this happens, but maybe it has changed, so I'll give it a go. Anyway, a proper planted tank is still heaps nicer IMO, but it is a nice compromise & would certainly make keeping a breeding tank spotless much easier. http://www.discusforums.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=113824&highlight=bare+bottom+planted#113824

Re: the aquasoil. I like it, cause I do like dark substrates, but if you don't like the look of eco, you mightn't like ADA. ADA's more of a uniform colour than from eco complete is, but I haven't seen eco in real life (only pics of tanks here on FP). My bags are unopened, still the cardboard delivery box.

I think Java Ferns, including this type, are generally slow growers, full stop. Mine has probably grown slowly, but I don't really want it to grow at all. Trimming takes away the fancy end pieces.

Shane, bummer about the car news. Hope it isn't too expensive to fix.

Cheers
TW

It's not that I don't know how to link

I don't doubt that, thanks for trying anyway, Robyn. Providing a link is one option but what I meant was right click on the picture and save the picture. You can copy almost any picture from the internet and save it to your computer (isn't that scary?). Exception if it is embedded in PDF. Never wondered what trimming might do to a Windelov leaf - no wonder, so far trimming was not required in my tank!

Claudia

Hi Claudia - did you notice the link does work though.

Cheers
TW

It does, but I am still not deemed worthy enough to enter as a US resident. What I don't understand is why US and UK etc are okay here as it is also Aussie based! Anyway, not this important but thanks for trying!

BTW - my new male discus is in need of an optometrist. Food is flying right into his eyes and he is still clueless

That's a shame you can't get in, but it can't be because you are from the USA. The author of that thread lives in Strasburg, Pennsylvania USA & the site has members worldwide.

It must be still something to do with this site blocking you, or something on your PC doing the same. I recently had a new hard drive installed at work. Since then, I cannot open FP at work, yet I can open the discus one & many others. So it is something in my hard drive returning an error when I try logging onto this site.

Rather than clicking on the link, try copying & pasting in your browser. If this fails, when you are logged out of FP, try typing in www (dot) discusforums (dot) com . Either search for the thread, or continue typing the thread details in your browser, after "com" , of course.

BTW, why don't you like your new discus?

Also, what is your split lighting sequence. I should be turning my lights on in the new tank tonight & I'd like to try your sequence out.

Cheers,

Cheers
TW

Claudia , Sorry to hear that your new fish are causing a few problems . You might just
have to wait untill they sort out the pecking order .

Love to see some shots of the new ones .


Garry

Robyn,

apparently I misunderstood when we discussed the problem with entering the discus forum! Thanks for clarifying. Well, I am denied access upon registration because of my private e-mail adress. This is something I don't understand.

My 'split' or 'siesta' lighting is based on plant physiology: algae require long periods of lighting to efficiently perform photosynthesis for energy, while higher evolved plants get by with blocks of 4 to 5 hours. Here is what I do: 5 hours in the morning interrupted by 3 hours lights off (2 will work as well) and again 5 hours. This schedule is also used by quite a few European planted tank enthusiasts. I had problems with algae for a long time and after changing to Eco it was becoming more and more apparent. Within two weeks after changing to 'siesta' I saw the algae peel away and die! Now I have little to NO algae and substitute the diet of my algae munchers. This schedule is also recommended by Dennerle, next to Tropica the biggest distributor of aquatic plants in Europe.

The new discus: they are simply not as pretty as the ones that I have. Kind of dull colorwise and the face of the male is not so handsome (here I have to admit that this is because he is an 'older teenage' male. I learned from the breeder that sexually mature males all develop this type of 'nose'). I looked at his breeding pairs and liked only the females. So far, my pigeonblood male did not develop it, he is still too young. I will post pictures and will ask you what you think of them, fellow discus lover! Otherwise, they are very nice fish and get along well with the other inhabitants, they are also hearty eaters.

Garry, Robyn, here is a shot of the female discus:

I hope that the red markings will develop a bit more with nutritious, high quality food. The male is still reluctant to pose for the camera.

Hi catdancer. Admittedly I have not been reading this thread, but have peeked in a couple times to look at pics. Many people peek, but never comment. I love your red stripedty discus & the purple colored one too, along with the rams. That red discus is just breathtaking!

I like the "before the trim" look on your tank. Just personal preference I guess.

Anyway, great tank & fish, you should be really proud!

Oh, I did read about the bleach solution for algae. I will keep that in mind. I did try it on a water lettuce plant I got from a pond, just to kill anything bad that might have been on it. I didn't measure, just guessed, & left the plant in it for 10 min. Too much of everything I guess, cause the roots fell off & the plant started being eaten away with the leaves coming off & it looked kinda like a pale green wet noodle. I was sure it was a goner, but against hope, I put it in the tank. New leaves & roots have grown in! That is one tough plant! I will know better next time.

Fish_patty,

Thanks for popping in! You know, the tank before the trim does look better in picture than it does when you are standing in front of it. The hygro covers way too much and I hope to replace it partially with some other plants soon. Stargrass, for example, but the LFS' here in the area never carry it and I have to give myelf a big enough push to order online.

I will forward your compliments to the discus, they will like it as they are quite vain!

The bleaching is a good treatment for otherwise dommed plants but it requires careful watching, glad to hear that it worked out for you as well.

Claudia

Thanks for the lighting info. Another question though - how do you incorporate the short burst when the 2nd bank of lights go on?

Well, I am denied access upon registration because of my private e-mail address. This is something I don't understand.

Not sure what you mean by that. When I registered, I said I wanted by email address to private (so not viewed by other site users, same as here). But I think I did have to tell them what my email address is. There are several forum sites, & I think discusforum.com is one, where you can't register (until you receive & respond to Admin's email. You activate your registration by clicking on the link provided in their email. Would the problem be because you didn't want to give them your email? Otherwise I really don't understand. Lots of USA, UK, Canadian & European members. Weird

Re your new discus. I like her, she looks nice in the pic. Sure, not as bright as your red or blue, but pretty in a different subtle way. Buy hey, the tank has to create the look you want & the colour of the discus can make it or break.

Look forward to seeing this male with the nose. From the discus books I've read (going by memory) I think that is one of the "less desirable" traits to look for & reject, if you are looking for a show trophy discus.

But as I'll never be interested in that, I just go for what looks pretty to me.

I also think it said to reject this trait if looking to breed the discus. I'll look that up later & see if I'm remembering right.

see ya,

Cheers
TW

Claudia , I think the new discus is very striking without being bright . It's markings are
very nice . She is much nicer than the dull blue ones we get around here .
I think she will grow on you .


Garry

Lots of USA, UK, Canadian & European members.

I just registered and without any problems. I had provided my e-mail address the first time, I guess it was a short-lived glitch in their system. Great forum for discus lovers, thanks for pointing it out to me, Robyn!

Sadly, I have nothing good to report right now, have to run to the LFS to get more Metronidazole

More later and hopefully good news

Lighting: I am not sure I understand what your are asking me about - burst? I can time the intensity of lighting as my fixture comes with two cords to allow for separate operation. It does not matter, though. All you have to do is provide a 2 - 3 hours lights off period followed by the intensity of your choice.

Does this help? If not, ask me again I try to explain better

I guess one of your new discus brought worms or similar with him/her. I hope you get the metro in time for it to do the trick.

When you have time, pls let us know how treatment is going.

Cheers
TW

Hi Claudia, do pls let us know, when you have a moment, how your sick fish is doing & how metro treatment is progressing.

Lighting: I am not sure I understand what your are asking me about - burst? I can time the intensity of lighting as my fixture comes with two cords to allow for separate operation. It does not matter, though. All you have to do is provide a 2 - 3 hours lights off period followed by the intensity of your choice.

I'm new to the concept of split timing with the use of 2 power cords (previous light had only one power cord & it's low wattage level is the entire reason for the 43G's soon to come demise). How I'd planned to do this was with a 3hour burst in the middle of my lighting period. But now I'm following the new plan of having a 3 hour lighting siesta in-between 2 lighting periods, I'm not sure where the "burst" belongs. Currently I have set up the following sequence:-

1st lighting period
96 watts for 3.5hrs
192 watts for 1.5hrs

3 hour blackout

2nd lighting period
192 watts for 1.5hrs
96 watts for 3.5hrs

Do you think I have this the right way around & do you think I have the burst on for long enough? Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Cheers
TW

Claudia , Sorry to hear about your issues . Hope you can solve them quickly ..

Robyn , I've copied Claudia's ideas and I've gone with the longer period with the higher
light. So Low Light 2 , High Light for 3 , blackout for 3 and then repeat . Up to you I
suppose depending on how much growth you want . Your doing C02 as well so you
may not need as long a period of high light . I use 10 hours same as you have suggested .
Seems to be working Ok for me so far , but have only been doing it for a few weeks.

Hope this helps .

Garry


Garry

Claudia, apologies in advance for cluttering up your log with my lighting question.

Garry, thanks for the input. So, if I follow you correctly & if I wanted to more or less copy your sequence, my lighting plan would be:-

1st lighting period
96 watts for 2hrs
192 watts for 3hrs

3 hour blackout

2nd lighting period
192 watts for 3hrs
96 watts for 2hrs

I'm a little scared of an algae attack, even by the thought, of having 192 watts for 6hrs out of 10 - but I guess my glosso would like it. Wonder what Claudia's thoughts are?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

no problem, glad if I can help. You are not 'cluttering' up my log, this is a forum to exchange ideas and ask question (at least in my opinion)

Your lighting sounds fine to me, the way it works is that algae require considerably more than just 5 hours of continuous light to perform efficient photosynthesis. If they can't do so, they will ultimately perish. I had a very impressive demonstration of this in my 72 G tank ( which was close to succumbing to an algae outburst). A lighting schedule very similar to yours is also performed by a French aquarist who scored very well in this year's ADA contests. This, as well as the Dennerle site and faint memories of plant physiology class convinced me. An easy way to avoid algae problems.

Good luck and let me know if you need more info!

Claudia

Thanks Claudia

Sorry if I'm a little dense here.

Your lighting sounds fine to me

Which one do you mean "sounds fine". The initial one with the shorter high intensity burst, or the 2nd version with a longer high intensity burst?

Cheers
TW

Treatment:

First of all, I could kick myself for several weeks into my own backside! The tanks of this breeder looked suspicious and I of all people should have known better ... ARRRGGH

Anyway, I am into my 4th day of Metronidazole and all fish but one are recovered. My little love-stricken teenage bride is well again and harrassing the primadonna. A sure sign that she is better. Her appetite is also back. The only fish that keeps me worried is the smaller one of the cobalt blue. I have set up a 5G tank with an airstone and heater and contemplate treating the fish there with high dose metronidazole in solitary confinement.
One set back I encountered was the change in metronidazole preparation - my favorite LFS ran out of it and I had to do with something made by Hikari - turned out that the concentration of this med was very different from the pure preaparation I had used before!

I will also folllow up with another dewormer as I am suspicious that my finned friends have more than just Spironucleus vortens, probably some leftover problems from the flag fish. At least it is not the discus plague.

BTW, Metronidazole is NOT a good fertilizer for crypts Something more funny: hauling buckets of RO water I injured my back, how appropriate considering that I wanted to kick myself really hard!

Week 10 after makeover - week 1 after first round of metranidazole

I did not perform any trimming due to sick fish, as a consequence the tank was in need of serious trimming. The hygro had taken over and was breaking through the surface, tenellus started gowing in layers and the remaining vals did their best to gain territory back ...


After trimming (removed 6 vals, 6 tenellus, several hygros to provide more space for rotalla). Still not very obvious in the picture:


This is what the tank looked like before the 2nd round metronidazole ...

Some more detailed shots, here is 'gramps' who lives in a 20 G long and is the male part of a senile (breeding) pair. the fish swims constantly around with his mouth gaping wide open ...

Here is "Ramzes', the discus that I am not too fond of (note the 'forehead'):


Another pic of the female that I bought together with him:

Claudia , Great shots of the fish . Hows your back btw , hope its ok

I actually like that Red Discus more and more.I think she's very pretty .

Tank looks great ,very lush.


Garry

Thanks for asking,

my back recovered from the RO water hauling ... now I use tap water for the 2nd round of treatment. Fishes are also fine and health completely restored but my motto is 'better safe than sorry', especially when dealing with discus. My LFS told me that Metro acts also as an appetite stimulans, I can testify to that. Amazing what these guys pack away. I hope Robyn's discus are also fine. looking foward how you will improve with your technical hardware. I have to admit that the light grey filter intake in my tank is an eye sore to me. Every trim of plants highlights their ugliness and am touying with the idea of replacing it with lily pipes (in the long run).

The female discus is pretty, agreed, but I am still scratching my head when I look at 'Ramzes'.

Wow claudia,

looks like i missed a fair bit,sorry for not keeping up its been busy and still is. However Im glad your back is better, how is the cobalt blue doing?

Anyways hope things are getting back to normal in the tank.

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Hi Shane:

thanks for asking. How is your car?
I learned that my 'cobalt blue' is a 'blue diamond' and the little guy is thankfully restored to complete health. Eats a lot just like the discus now that appetite is back. I am putting them through a 2nd round of metro as I am concerned that the nasty bugs are not completely eliminated. The tank looks 'wild' and I have to to do some serious thinking about a scape I want to create. The plants are taking over and do not leave enough space for the fish to swim. Plenty of trimmings are already p=ut away and there will be much more to redo my 20 G long.

Claudia

Claudia, so glad that your back & your discus are on the road to recovery. Glad to hear you had no casulaties.

I hope Robyn's discus are also fine.

Thanks for asking. I was also going through my own metro treatment dramas. Two sick discus, with a 50% recovery rate. My fav "clean" red melon died, but saved the trouble maker who brought disease with him (He didn't eat for nearly 6 weeks, had sores on his body & was floating on his side at one stage (thought he was dead). Finally a combo of metro & applying bettadine (yes human antespectic solution) daily on his sores brought about the break through. Sadly, before his removal to the hospital tank, he must have left something behind. My fav & younger red melon got sick & died within 24 hrs. Sad, as if I could make a choice I would have preferred him & to have never bought the patient. Still a lesson learnt. No more additions to the discus community without a quarantine period.

BTW, you never mentioned what caused you to bring out the metro for your tank. Was it white jelly poos, or loss of appetite?

I love your fish pics & I do like your new female. She's very pretty. Don't know why, but for some reason the solid blue discus aren't my fav. Can't tell you why really, as I know most others like them. Having said that, 'Ramzes' looks like a nice one. I can see what you mean about his nose/forehead, but it really isn't that noticeable (not in the pics anyway).

I thinks gramps looks especially cute

Cheers
TW

Two sick discus, with a 50% recovery rate

Oh no, so sorry to hear! Who was the culprit? Little Fire Ruby or the Penang Eruption? I remember these were the most recent additions according to your log.

daily on his sores

You are the Best! It takes a lot to take care of sick fish and bring them on the road to recovery with 'ordinary' treatment, applying medication to sores is several steps ahead of it. KUDOS!!

Was it white jelly poos, or loss of appetite

Hah! Two days after addition of Ramzes and the new female I noticed a TINY white spot, about the size of the tip of a needle (!) on the lateral line of little diamond (you can tell that I obsess over my discus). Gone the very same evening. Next morning the fish is black and hiding in the corner, no interest in food or anything else. Within 12 hours 2 more fish are showing symptoms - turning very dark and refusing to eat (but not the new fish, of course). At this point I had already started the metro treatment and replaced tap water with RO to bring down the pH as I was concerned my fish had contracted the discus plague. My female breeder got worst next to the little diamond. 36 hours into the treatment the latter started shedding his skin. I considered euthanization but was never able to catch the fish which was hiding in the plants which hwas a good thing.

I treated for 5 days in a row with 30% water changes before adding new medication. At the end all fish but the little one had recovered and were eating again. Little diamond started a day later munching beef heart. I have to find a butcher that will order beef heart so I can prepare a batch of the food you suggested! The second round of treatment was started one week after the first was concluded and I am doing metro every other day.

Altogether, I am not even sure if the organism underlying these problems was brought in with the new fish. My flag fish lady passed on the week before (old age), but I always suspected her to host parasites as she was wild caught (found out after I had received her as a gift and she had passed on her ailm ents to other inhabitants, at this time point no discus). On the other hand, this breeder had several sick fish in his other tanks!

Still a lesson learnt

Same here! No more additions without extended quarantine period and prophylactic treatment with metro and a dewormer, plants rinsed with kaliumpermanganat.

Thanks for the compliments on the fish, gramps IS cute, I wish only he would do what he is supposed to (breeding, that is).

When will we see some new discus posts from you again? I keep my fingers crossed that your round fish are also completely recovered and will stay this way!

Claudia

Who was the culprit? Little Fire Ruby or the Penang Eruption?

Ah, you just reminded me there were 2 deaths. I've now forgotten which was which out of Fire Ruby and Penang Eruption, but one of those died first. The culprit was bought after them, from a Discus Assoc meeting I went to. I'll never buy in that situation again, when the first you see of the fish is in a stressed situation, prebagged. It was a really cold night & he sat in that bag in cold water from before 7pm (when we arrived) until we got home around midnight. He may also have lacked oxygen too. Holding the bag on my lap made me cold & there must have been a small leak in the bag, as my legs trousers legs were completely wet by the time we got hoem. I think this may have stressed him, to bring on sickness. Either that, or he had it in him to start with. Anyway, at first I took his lack of eating as typical discus sulking when you first get them, but by week 2 of no food, he was doing jelly poo & so was either F.Ruby or Penang E. He also now had an obvious sore, so I removed them both. But F.Ruby or Penang E (whichever one it was) was a lot younger & he died really quickly. I was first treating the new comer with with a Waterlife product, but that discus forum told me to swap to metro & to do the bettadine thing. Told me to net him once a day, then use an eye dropper to put bettadine directly on the sore & wait 30 secs before returning him to the water. Strangely, he lay quite still in the net while I did this. Even after his sore had healed, I was convinced he would still die. By now, no more jelly poos & sore healed, but still not eating for 6 weeks. Then, one day he ate. Waited another 8 or 9 days after he started eating & returned him to main tank, but by now my fav red melon had jelly poo & wouldn't eat. Removed him to hospital tank, dosed metro but when I can home from work that day, he was flat on the bottom of the tank. Wish I'd never bought the one that recovered, as I'm convinced both deaths are linked to him.

All the fish in the main tank have been eating metro laced food for the past week, so I have my fingers crossed I'l have no more issues.

I have a little cute albino in quaratine at the moment. He's had a week of lemisvole (spelling?), a week of metro food, next week he will have 2 weeks of prazi, then another week of lemisvole. After that, he'll join his bigger buddies.

I also have an alenquer (spelling?) that I don't think I previously mentioned.

Now, I've cluttered your log with my news - sorry about that. I'm trying not to update my 43G tank log. It is a mess with plants shoved everywhere, parked waiting for the new tank to happen. Should only be another couple of weeks.

So glad you had no deaths. You're the one that deserves KUDOS, for saving them all, whereas I lost 2.

Cheers
TW

What a nightmare story!

from a Discus Assoc meeting

Interesting , I got mine from a member of the Cichlid Assoc whose meetings I frequently attend. The fish were advertised in the 'Classified' section of their web site... I just visited the site again and saw to my dismay that he advertises more discus of this batch ... >

Wish I'd never bought the one that recovered,

Most likely the poor little guy is responsible. I regret my purchases as well. Both fish are not up to the quality of the ones I have (at least in my eyes), though the female is pretty.

All the fish in the main tank have been eating metro laced food for the past week

Mine got smart and refuse the laced food, even mixing it with regular food does not trick them into swallowing the medicated one anymore! Leaves just medication of the entire tank

You are very careful with the little albino, excellent! I hope to see a pic of it soon.

Now, I've cluttered your log with my news - sorry about that.

What's there to be sorry about? I am honestly interested in your fish and learning from your experiences! This is 'fishprofiles' and not 'plant nerd central' - and I sincerely apologize to anyone who feels offended by this remark, I read up on this web site opnce in a while myself.

Should only be another couple of weeks.

I will try to be patient but I know that others are also waiting for your new log! Robyn, you are very welcome to post a pic of the 'culprit discus' in my log. I'd like to see the guy.

You're the one that deserves KUDOS,

Nope, I have to return the compliment, what you did is in a different category. Nursing a fish back to health after weeks of serious illness with daily administration of medicine in a for fish rather invasive manner counts more! I just hauled water and medicated - and was lucky

Claudia

Here he is the 1st day I removed him to a hospital tank. You can see his sore just a little behind his eye.
.

Here is is now, all recovered


I think it was Penang E that died, anyway this one


This one was my saddest loss
The pic doesn't do him justice. His face wasn't as washed out as it appears in the pic. It was a brilliant yellow colour & he really stood out as he patrolled the tank.

Here's the Alenquer


Here's the albino in quarantine. There's no light in his little tank, so pic quality is even worse than usual


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

thanks for posting! Poor little P. eruption, so he/she was the second casualty. The culprit discus which you nursed back to healthy life is a very very pretty fish. It is probably no consolation for the loss of your favorite, though.

...so pic quality is even worse than usual

Fishing for compliments? I like your pictures and their quality is not bad at all.
However, I see what you mean with the old tank been taken apart to provide plants for the new ones by the attractive potted floater

I just wonder who comes up with the names for the different color strains of discus. Your 'albino' has plenty of pigment not only in the eye but also in the fins. Cute round fish, BTW

How much do you feed your discus daily? Reading up on their dietary requirements on the site you suggested I got the impression that I did not feed enough.

Well, with pics of your departed finned friends and the ones alive I am looking forward to your log describing their new home. Good luck and lots of fun setting it up!

see what you mean with the old tank been taken apart to provide plants for the new ones by the attractive potted floater

a full shot would reveal several pots of hair grass, plants that are just floating (run out of substrate) & even a net fry saver, that has my latest purchase of riccia - just waiting until I get the energy to cover my little stones with it - a tedious horrid job.

Fishing for compliments?

Discus are about the only fish I can take a photo of, without it being a blurry mess.

Your 'albino' has plenty of pigment not only in the eye but also in the fins

Yes he does & his body is a nice creamy yellow. Probably wouldn't have bought him as a pure white fish. As he grows, he may get some red spotting on his body & with the right naturally colour enhancing food, he should colour up nicely. He lets me touch him, stroke him etc & nibbles my hand looking for food. He is my smallest & all alone in quarantine, so maybe this helps make him less spooked by my presence in the tank. My other round fish wouldn't allow touch, although the "culprit", who also spent time in close contact with me in that hospital tank, has also let me stroke him.

I increased feed to 3 times a day since reading up on that site, plus buying 2 fairly recently written discus book - but hope that will reduce to once daily when all are adults. The guy who sold the "culprit" to me said that even he (my largest) wasn't an adult. Somewhere between a juvi & a sub-adult. All I read seem to say they will be stunted if not fed up well prior to adulthood.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,
the site you suggested is very helpful, indeed.

I increased feed to 3 times a day since reading up on that site, plus buying 2 fairly recently written discus book

Yes, I did a fair amount of reading myself and purchased a book but apparently a not so good one! Now my 'primadonna' might be permanently stunted. These guys pack away an incredible amount of food and I feed three times a day. Nevertheless, they are always giving the impression of borderline starvation.

Hope everything is okay with your tanks and no more emergency treatment for you.

Below a picture of the patients restored to complete health. Nevertheless, I am beginning to show signs of severe paranoia and might be up for this month's neurotic discus keeper award . I am fussing over every single no matter how insignfiicant color change/abnormality in the skin. Plenty of opprotunity there as the blue diamonds are most of the t ime a very nice darker purple blue. Aren't you running a UV sterilizer? I seriously consider getting one for the discus tank.

Claudia

Those are really beautiful blues on your discus. They both look a little angry - funny how sometimes fish look that way in particular shots

If there is a runner up for that award, it will be me

Aren't you running a UV sterilizer? I seriously consider getting one for the discus tank.

I paid for 2 UV sterilizers back in June from one of my fav on line LFS. They have "literally" been on a slow boat from china all this time. I think it must be by row boat. Apparently they arrived in Australia yesterday & are being quarantined (something to do with the wooden crates they came in. I won't be able to connect it to the discus tank until I start up the new one, but I will be able to set up the one for the divided tank as soon as it comes out of quarantine.

EDIT: Do you have UV? What wattage?

Cheers
TW

They both look a little angry

You have very good perception! I took this shot during a little break they took to regain strength for another round of sparring. Two seconds later they were kicking at each other again.

Spent another week fussing over the discus. The little diamond decided to put on a 'tiger like' pattern for a day. Fortunately, the fish is back to his normal color, who knows what that was about. I do not hav a UV sterilizer (yet) but I am tempted and clueless about the wattage, etc. No time right now to think about this, it will have to wait a bit. BTW, you have a good sense of humor and patience. Waiting patiently for an item you order in July deserves a medal!

Hope all is well with your discus tanks. Are you working on the set up already?

Week 12:

Metro treatment completed and everybody fish in good health. I hope it stays this way. Tank looks pretty wild despite trimming of Rotala and hygro. The tenellus lawn which decided on an interesting growth pattern was trimmed as well (removal of 16 plants to other tank). Any suggestions for a more tidy layout are welcome even if it looks like a hopeless case.

Hi,
IMO, I think I'd leave the tank as it is for now. The
fish are back to healthy, the plants are flourishing,
and you have provided what they wanted for spawning.

That being said, I would leave plants growing across the
surface as Discus prefer some shade as well as places to
swim between pieces of driftwood or plants. They also
prefer open areas that they can swim into and out of.
I'd keep that in mind as I trim or move things around.

It is a beautiful tank that shows off the fish and their
colors quite well. It is a beautiful species tank.

It is not, however a place to breed Discus in.
In this tank you would have to count on luck to have
any fry survive to adult hood as the fish other
than the breeding pair would make quick work out of the
fry, and hound any juveniles to their deaths.
In this tank you might be wise to have some nice broad
leafed swords for the fish to spawn on, or better yet,
a piece of slate or two, and then remove the spawn to
a separate rearing tank.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Beautiful fish & tank! I'm with Frank on leaving the tall plants alone. But I'm with you on thinking it needs a trim. It's so bushy that all the plants blend in together, in my opinion. I know I'm just a beginner & don't even know the names of the plants. But I know what I like to see. I would trim around all the individual plants & hardscape so that each one shows up better. I like the tank in the before trim pics like on page 4. The tank is full yet each plant & object stands out cause there is not that much around each one. So if you just trim the excess around the plants & objects they will stand out more. IMHO
I hope the tank stays stable for you now. You've definitely had your share of problems.

Claudia , Wow,some fantastic growth you've got going there . I think I would be with
Frank & Patty . You've just got everything going well, leave it for a while ( few weeks at
least).I know its hard but I would just do a little trimming here and there and let
the tank settle a bit .

When you have done that a break in the jungle , slightly off centre ( either right or left )
might add some focus and depth to the scape . Something like Tetratechs or LFs 125g .
Just a thought .

Tank looks fantastic and I'm in awe of the growth , well done .


Garry

Hi there:

thanks for the compliments and suggestions! I did not perform any trimmings ... - ... instead we are back to metronidazole! "Miss Priss", the female red turk developed intestinal problems (keep in mind that it was her and the pale blue Diamond who brought the flagellates to the tank). The patient is out and about again and took some food today but I guess the metronidazole episodes aren't over yet. The tank looks like a green jungle by now.

t is not, however a place to breed Discus in. In this tank you would have to count on luck to have any fry survive to adult hood as the fish other than the breeding pair would make quick work out of the fry, and hound any juveniles to their deaths.

I know, that's why I will set up a bridal suite for the couple if they continue to make breeding attempts. Not to mention that the parents have to develop mucus. One of the reasons I bought in the two new discus was to get rid off the pair bonding as these fish are too young for successful breeding anyway. So far it works but for an entirely different reason
left side of tank
right side of tank

catdancer,

The tank is looking nice and seems to enjoy some healthy plant growth. I cannot comment on the Discus, I am a total amateur when it comes to these fish and the required maintenance is just too much for me (don't like to worry too much about my animal life in the tanks).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo,

Thanks for stopping by, your contributions were sorely missed! The flora in the tank is exploding despite lack of CO2 (snowed under with work, I am sure you can relate so I did not have the time to set it up yet) and covering the surface. Unfortunately, the beautiful red crypt is still opposed to metronidazole, oh well.
The discus have more than rectified their repuatation as delicate in my tank and I am trying to balance their needs with those of the plants. However, any contributions to plants and aquascaping will be greatly appreciated and put to test as soon as the health of the delicate round fish allows for it.

Claudia

Claudia

Sorry i havent been able to keep up with your tank, the shots of the tank and fish are awesome. I hope the red crypt comes out okay. Maybe you can send me a plantlet if they sprout. hehe

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

So sorry your troubles continue, Claudia. I hope you beat it soon. More important than the bridal suite for your lovebirds, is a quarantine tank for any new discus. As you know I learned my lesson too & my new little albino (or whatever he is) spent more than a month in a small desktop quarantine tank, being given precautionary treatment. He only went into the main tank yesterday & he has been my easiest "round" fish addition to that tank (he learned to recognise & trust me in the close quarters of the small quarantine tank, so that when he moved into the big tank, he already knew I mean food & he never gave me the usual worry of a new discus sulking & refusing to eat.

My fingers are crossed that your trouble soon passes.

In the meantime, your tank is looking very nice & lush.

Cheers
TW

However, any contributions to plants and aquascaping will be greatly appreciated

Well,

This is the fun part of scaping. You have a lush tank with a nice variety of plants. Spent some time looking at these plants by species and observe what they do.

How do they grow? fast/slow/medium?
How do they spread? runners/branching/clipping?
What do they need? light/ferts/CO2/substrate?
How much do you like them? not/medium/much?
How would a tank look if they were the center of attention (but, of course, not center of tank)?
What could I build around them in order to complete the picture (building in sense of other plants and hardscape)?

And so forth. This puts soo many images in your head that you have many tanks at one. Eventually you will settle on one, get everything ready for it, and do it (for better or worse, as I may note, happened to me quite a few times).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Claudia , Sorry to hear you having those problems again . Life's not fair sometimes ,
but you will get thru it .
Tank is looking more like an Amazon jungle than ever You do have a way
with plants

Hope work lets up for you soon and you get the time to scape the tank the way you want.
Look forward to it

Garry

Spend some time looking at these plants by species and observe what they do.

I have vivid imagination, unfortunately it has to be applied to something very different right now, but I got the idea For the time being the fishprofiles community will have to do with a tank that looks very untidy.

Dear Garry:

You do have a way with plants

Umm, what do you mean? My gran would say 'just like your hair'
Funny, your remark about the amazon jungle. It is a jungle by now albeit a submersed one!

I will have to get the scissors coming weekend, otherwise my poor discus will not have any room left to paddle around!

Claudia

Sorry to hear about the meds episode again. The plants look awesome, I agree with you about clipping some so you have some space. You can always send the clippings to me hehehe. Im serious....

Anyways Good look with the treatment

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

Metronidazole or not, they don't care!

Holly and No.1 spawned again

This time I was allowed to watch and quite frankly, Dad needs to improve on his fertilizing technique

Please excuse the poor picture quality but the solid canopy that has formed near the surface of the water prevents good photos - Mom at work