FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Personaly would rather have submersed growth so the plant doesn't have to change over. Though I have heard some plants do not ship as well this way. Just my two cents.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

The plant in the link is Blyxa Japonica. Just the pic from tropica is what the plant would look like in about 6 inches of water !

Don't hold out much hope of red from the Coffeefolia. The stems are red but are hard to see under the leaves. The new leaves have a yellowish/brown color as they emerge but they change to dark green in a couple of days. Beautilful plant but it doen't produce a lot of leaves.

For an easy red plant try Altherena Reineckii "Scarlet Temple" easy plant will stay red even when the light not so good.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Wings & Bensaf

Well, I have given up on coffeefolia anyway, as tropica said it grew quite high (15-25cm).

I looked up http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=861and it looks good.

I guess it's not worth trying Ludwigia inclinata http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=854 What do you think - no chance in 1.6wpg?

EDIT: I may not have red plants, buy I'm really happy with my rasboras these days. They have have coloured up a really nice bright red, so I hope that means they're happy in there. Here's a pic - I know, I know, they're fuzzy - but they're red too Pic doesn't capture they're full beauty as in real life they have such brightness, are much redder, and are really lovely to watch the small school of red crossing too & fro

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Antoher question - I have some in my previous post too.

Is there a difference between chain sword & pygmy chain sword. There is something described as chin sword for sale on ebay - says it gorws to 7-9cm in height. Does pygmy stay smaller than that, or are they the same plant.

Also, if I were to try hair grass, how do you trim this without making a gastly mess it the tank. Is there a trick to it. I can only imagine that I will a lot of trimmings floating around. I the float (ie rise to the top, I guess I can scoop them out with a net - but I can't think of another way to do it)

Any thoughts?

Cheers
TW

Sorry, I'm bombarding here with questions. Thinking of putting the 4ft tank on hold, & instead trying to upgrade the lighting on the current tank. I don't know if I will go ahead with this plan, as it might look a bit odd, but here goes.

I will remove the front section of my hood altogether, leaving still insitu the existing trickle filter that runs atop the whole back length of my tank - that is the bit that will look odd. Then order a new 24" pc light unit that holds 2 x 55watts, each on a sep. power cord. This will give me the following lighting options:-

when 1 light is on, I will have 1.26wpg
when 2 lights are on, I will have 2.53wpg

I have compared this to what I was told would be a good configuration if I did the 4ft tank & the wpg work out almost the same. The only difference is, this tank is a deeper tank. My 43.5G tank is just around 23.5inches - so the light has to penetrate a further 3.5inches than it would have on a 4ft tank (I think it was 20inches - but maybe only 18inches. If 18inches, then an even greater difference in depth to penetrate.)

I am even confusing myself with this waffle (although in my head it is picture clear - just can't transfer it to words).

Do you think that it is worthwhile me buying this light for this tank. My goal for doing this will be so I am less limited in plant choices (although we have less here than US anyway) and so I can throw in some red plants. Will the light be sufficent for my goal.

Thank you

Cheers
TW

A few further changes were made at water change time. The larger leaved blue stricta was replaced with the thinner leaved version. The hygro was removed, trimmed & replaced. My large fern wood was raised (by sitting on top of another piece of driftwood) so that you can see creeping wisteria, then wood, then the fern, & then the stem plants behind. To the right hand side, I took out the previous week's piece of wood & replaced it with 3 new thinner pieces. Also thinned out the java fern & only put back the fern with smaller leaves. I haven't been able to find narrow leave java, but if I ever find it - that's where it will go. The Blyxa never recovered from my replanting last week, so it's gone. But 6 new Blyxa have been ordered. I'm trialling some chain sword at the front. At the moment, the right hand side needs lots more ground plants & anubia nana for the wood - but these things will have to happen gradually. Plus I have to decide how I feel about the wood first.

Here is a full tank shot.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

close up of the new wood & plant arrangement. The wood has been in there for 24hrs & some of it has darkened to match the other wood in the tank, while some hasn't. Hoping that as the wood absorbs more water, it will all turn darker - as in different parts, the same piece of wood can be darker or lighter. Also, imagine that eventually all the substrate will be planted with low plants (chain sword & blyxa,ricca on rocks - with hair nets of course).

Something else in this tank is bothering me. I've mentioned previously that my water from tap is around 2 or 3kH at most. This tank previously tested 3kH, then 5kH, but one day last week it tested 7kH, so something in there is raising kH. Now all my rocks are out - I'm only left wondering if it is my gravel. I remember a LFS telling me that black gravel can effect my pH & I did the vinegar test on it & checked with where I bought it. Vinegar gave no reaction & LFS of purchase told me it's inert, but with no other rock in there - what else can be causing the kH to go up, if not the gravel. I'm going to watch this & I'm starting to consider whether I should pull the tank apart & replace the soil with either Eco or ADA. I'm hesitant to use the ADA, cause how do I tell my C02 level if my ADA soil is altering the pH? But Amano uses it, so it must be ok. Guess I'd just have to go with counting bps. I do like the ADA in my non C02 tanks, but would C02 bring the pH down even further.

I wonder whether anyone on this forum uses ADA & C02 togehter & what experiences they've had with the pH and if it drops too low.

ADA & Eco Complete would cost me around the same - although I think I've bugged an on line supplier enough that he's thinking of getting the Eco & he said he'd do it cheaper if he does.

Still I'm not rushing into the decision to change the substrate - but I don't like the kH altering on me - so I'll continue to think about it a bit longer.

Also, in an earlier post I asked a question about an idea of changing the lights. Wonder if I'm on the right track with what I'm thinking of getting.

Thanks.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I think that the new wood looks very nice, although I am sure you will still tinker with its exact positioning and such. Also, the area of the wood is now either too empty or too full. With that, I mean that is is too open to stand its ground compared to the left side, but not open enough to be considered a truely open space.

About the light question: is that the one where 2 lights would give you 2.53wpg? That sounds good, is for sure not too much, but will maybe limit you on some plants that need really high light. 2x65W, if available, are an option as well. And - given that that can be fired individually, it is just a question of how long to have both on at the same time.

Hope this helps a little,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo, maybe next week I'll remove a piece of wood, although I wanted lots to help bring my pH down a little. When C02 is off, this tank can creep all the way up to around 8pH.

I really can't (or at least I can't yet) cope with this side being completely open & can't think how I could make it work that way. By that I mean I don't think I have the skill to gradually have the stems sloping down to the open space. Or is the idea that the last stem still remains high - but tucked behind the larger ferned wood & then suddenly all becomes low beyond?

In the meantime until or if I'm able to go low completely, I'm just playing around with how it might look with branchy wood & low grassy plants. Who knows how this side will end up - I certainly don't

My tank is an awkward length & as usual, my complaint is we don't have a full range of possibilities open to us over here. There doesn't seem to be a compact light the length to fit my tank. My tank is 32inches, but the 30inch fittings I've found only take fluorescents. To get a PC, the biggest (that is not too big) is 24inches & it only comes in a 2 x 55watt combo. Although I didn't actually ask if it will accept any larger watt, the impression I got when speaking to the sales staff was that this is only available in that wattage & that there's no other suitable choice - although I will ask more questions. I will make sure whatever I end up with, will be able to be fired separately.

Thanks for comments.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Sorry about me being so forgetful, I guess I am getting old. I never seem to remember all the light issues that you folks have going on down under, maybe it is because it is almost uncomprehensable (sp) over here that you cannot pick from at least 5 providers to get exactly what you need.

Open side of tank: Have you seen my 29G log lately? If you compare the left and middle section of your tank to mine, they are almost identical. You be the judge ...


Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Re: the lack of availability. It's a catch 22. I keep getting told they're not available here 'cause there's no demand for them - but if they're not in the shops on display & being promoted in the 1st place, how can they expect the public to demand them.

Somehow, I don't seem to have your 29G log on my active list. Hmmmm, I'll go looking for it now.

Cheers
TW

Yes, I see what you mean & your 29G tank looks really nice that way. I see 2 problems that may prevent low plants that require medium/high light working in the very rear of my tank:-

1. My wet/dry trickle filter sits atop my tank, at the rear. It runs the whole length of the tank & is 6inches wide. No direct light hits the back 6 inches of tank. My rear stem plants always bend forward, to reach the light. So I don't know if pygmy chain sword or Blyxa would be able to grow at the back.

2. My water return & C02 reactor would be exposed & ugly. blah blah blah, I know I've said that before.

Despite that, if I go ahead & get a new light, I might try the dwarf chain sword along the back & see if it will grow. Don't think it would be worth trying until I at least have new lights though.

Stage 2 of my tank upgrade would be to replace the existing filter with a cannister filter - but that is even further down the track. Cash flow prevents that right now.

I think it will be a while before I get this to a point where the right hand side is ok.

My otos like the new wood though

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

With the last 6 inches getting no light, do you mean all the way to the bottom of the tank? That would be aweful. Chain Swords don't grow tall and if you move your light further to the front maybe enough will reach the lower back parts for your plants to grow.

No money for a filter? You better start winning some of the marathons you run, the price money should pay for one

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well I suppose it gets some light, because I can still see there. But above that back 6inch wide block, running the length of the tank is the black bottom of the filter which sits on top & must to an extent, shade the plants underneath. Maybe if/when I get a new light & change the hood, I'll make sure there are good reflectors in the light to help this out.

When I win all the marathons (yeah, right) I'll put the prize money to a new eheim cannister filter, make the tank top all glass - problem solved.

Anyway, by moving a freestanding light fitting to the front, I will get more light at the back? I'll try that too (when/if I get light).

Cheers
TW

Anyway, by moving a freestanding light fitting to the front, I will get more light at the back? I'll try that too (when/if I get light).

What? You mean another light, further to the front, but still on top of the tank, right? That may work too, but it is a longer way from front top to bottom back than it would be straight down, I also believe it would make plants grow forwards (towards the light, if they can).

I think the best thing would be a different filter. Do you guys have the Hagen AquaClear HOBs available? I am sure that the 110 would be more than what you need. On the other hand, this would still be a problem with some surface agitation and CO2.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

you move your light further to the front maybe enough will reach the lower back parts for your plants to grow

No, I was referring to this quote from your earlier reply. I thought that you meant that when/if I get my new light, if I push it to the front, somehow more light reflected to the back. I have obviously not understood what you mean. I can be a bit slow at times.

I think we have those, but I would like to go the cannister route. I'm hoping next year when my daughter leaves school, I can get that eiheim filter & change completely to a glass top.

If I get the new light, my hood - which takes up 3/4 of the tank top space, will be replaced with glass. I rang the light manufacturer today (LFS gave me his number). I found it hard to understand why they make a 30inch in fluro only & the compact in 24 & 36inch. I hoped it was an error, but it seems I will have to get a 24inch fitting to go on my 32inch tank if I want compact, but still faced with the problem that the stand for the light is made to fit over the edges of the tank (it won't sit flat on tank glass top). I'm to ring the boss back on Monday to see if there is any solution. If not, will have to search out the hardware store. I don't really want to risk putting a strong light directly on my glass, as it may get hot. The ones here do not have the fans that I've heard you mention yours have.

Cheers
TW

I'm hoping next year when my daughter leaves school, I can get that eiheim filter & change completely to a glass top.

Why - are you going to sell off all her stuff that she will leave behind

I think you understood the light thing just fine, moving it forward is what I had in mind. It was me who didn't get it when I asked about an extra light even further to the front.

I have no doubt that it would be possible to rig something onto a light fixture to make it be elevated over a tank glass. Maybe we should get Matty on the case

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Why - are you going to sell off all her stuff that she will leave behind

I hope that she will not be going anywhere soon, but NO MORE SCHOOL FEES. YAY YIPEEE YAHOO. University fees can be hexed (means deferred & later when she is a wage earner, paid back out of her salary bit by bit (deducted like tax is).

Cheers
TW

A week or so ago I bought a 6 pack of Blyxa Japonica on ebay & it hasn't turned up yet - so I emailed the seller to see if it had gone astray. He told me shipment was delayed, but has been sent now & to make up for the delay he's added some extra Blyxa, lily grass + banana lily to compensate for this late shipment.

Does anyone have experience with lily grass or banana lily, or know what light requirements they need.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

First of all, it is always nice to get a freebee
Secondly, rarely are they any good, either because they are not prime plants within the species, or they are cheaper plants

I don't know what the Lily Grass would be, but the Banana Lily seems to be the Banana Plant, Nymphoides aquatica as can be seen here. Overall, pretty ok, but not my favorite, albeit I never had it.

I would say, if it comes for free and you have a spot for it, then use it.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

The banana plants are fun plants. Not very demanding you just plop them in and they kinda get moved around by the current and fish. They will grow long leaves that will go to the surface and then open like a little lilly pad. If it is in fact the plant the Ingo refers to.

BTW - I might have missed something, but what wattage are you growing the Blyxa in?

My Scapes

Thanks Ingo & Tetratech for the replies. So does that mean the banana plant is not a foreground plant?

BTW - I might have missed something, but what wattage are you growing the Blyxa in?

This answer is longer than it should be, as I'm playing around with a conversion idea. Currently, I'm only running 1.63wpg. I have a 2 stage conversion plan.
Stage 1.
a. Remove front section of hood altogether & replace with a glass lid.
b. leave insitu existing trickle filter that runs atop whole back length of my tank - This will will look odd - I know.
c. Order 24" pc light unit that holds 2 x 55watts, each on a sep. power cord.

Maths is far from my strong point, but I think this change will give me:
when 1 light is on, I will have 1.26wpg
when 2 lights are on, I will have 2.53wpg

Tank is around 23.5inches deep & 32inches long – will this light be enough?

Why don't I get a 30inch fitting you ask? Because that is only avaiable as a fluro light fitting. Why don't I get 65watt lights you ask? Cause we have a lousy range & that's what I'm stuck with.

Ingo, the stand for the light problem is solved (spoke to manufacturer, who said he will cut off the overlap part of stand that needed to fit over side of tank, so that it is able to sit on a flat top, eg glass lid).

He has also given me the option of paying the price of a 36" light fitting, that he would cut back to fit a 32"tank. I thought this sounded good, until he said that it would still only contain the 2 x 55w tubes & I would be paying $100 more. So, now I have to decide if I'm willing to pay $100, just so the fitting fits the tank (I read your comments Tetratech in your log where you say you think it looks better if it fits) but $100 is a lot more to pay & that $100 could go towards me completing stage 2 sooner rather than later.

Stage 2
a. replace existing trickle filter with a cannister filter & buy extra glass top to fill the space previously filled by the trick filter.

I can't decide what to do. I am the sort that often prefers to wait & do nothing, until I can afford the right choice. The last thing I want to do is spend the money on the light, only to be not happy with the look.

Tetratech, does it bother you a lot that your light doesn't run the whole length of the tank? What would you do? Would you spend the $100 extra, to make the light casing longer, even though you get no more wpg for your money?

I'm not sure which path to take here.

All comments would be appreciated.

Cheers
TW

Tetratech, does it bother you a lot that your light doesn't run the whole length of the tank? What would you do? Would you spend the $100 extra, to make the light casing longer, even though you get no more wpg for your money?

Do you mean from an aesthetic point of view or a functional one. From an aesthetic point of view it would probably look alittle better if it went all the way across and once on those arms tha lift it about 1.5 inches, but it's on little rubber feet and it doesn't really look bad. The other options are too hang it from the ceiling. I know coralife for example does make a cable specifically made for my light. I am also toying around with putting a canopy on my tank that would cover the light. If I do that my light being shorter than the tank would make taking the canopy off and on much easier.

From a functional point of view it doesn't affect me, but I also don't have highlight plants on my corners, but I really don't see much shading on the corners, looks like the spread is pretty good.

Bottom line is, you won't have much of a problem either way so it's really up to you. There would be plenty of ways to scape the tank if you went with the shorter light and corner shading became an issue, but $100 is a personal thing so I would go with your first instinct and not too crazy over it.

Hope I didn't confuse you more

My Scapes

Thanks Tetratech

Yeah, I'm meaning from an aesthetic point of view, because either way I'm stuck with the wpg given by the new fitting (2 x 55W). The light will be on arms that raise it, not rubber legs.

I'm reading between the lines of your post & guessing that the length issue does aesthetically bother you, or else you wouldn't be considering those other options (hood or hanging from ceiling).

I'm not bothered too much about the edges of tank, I'll keep lower light plants in those sections.

when 1 light is on, I will have 1.26wpg
when 2 lights are on, I will have 2.53wpg
Depth of tank: 23.5inches

Is the new wattage I'll get worthwhile making the changes. Will it let me grow the highlight plants that I'd like to try?

Thanks

Cheers
TW

I'm reading between the lines of your post & guessing that the length issue does aesthetically bother you, or else you wouldn't be considering those other options (hood or hanging from ceiling).

That's pretty good Robyn, it bothers me to the point that it would probably look alittle better, but it still looks good (I'm also very particular with these things. As you might know I purposely put a black background, black intake and black heater on my tank so they wouldn't stand out.

Anyway as far as the lighting, you would have pretty much my lighting WPG 1.3 and 2.7, but your tank is smaller and deeper so it wouldn't be as intense. Let's put it this way 2.5 is much better than 1.6 and it would allow you to grow alot more plants than you are growing now. Would it allow high light plants, probably some, not all, but it's definitely worth the move up IMO.


My Scapes

Thanks Tetratech

I'll have a think now about what I want to do.

Now, plants have arrived & I can't figure out how you are supposed to plant these banana plants.

Here's a pic of the 1st one. Are the long thin things the roots that I plant - but they seem to be pointed the same direction as the the stem & leaf? What to do?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the 2nd one. Do I put all those lower long green stems in the substrate. Are they the roots? I'm confused?


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

The "Bananas' are actually the roots and you could push them into the substrate. I've had those in the past and never really planted them I just put them in and they kinda sunk to the bottom, but that was before I was into planted aquaria. When the leaves get big and head to the surface the plant used to rise up from the buoyancy. Think of them as a small pond lilly, the leaves will head for the surface and open up like a pond lilly. It's not a full plant it throws of long thin leaves that uncurl at the surface. I believe it's more of a pond plant, but there actually fun to have in aquariums.

My Scapes

Those "bananas" are long - can I trim them before planting them?

Cheers
TW

Hi,
Banana plants are "neat" and draw their name from the
banana looking tubes that sprout roots. The green tubes
are NOT the roots. If you plant that plant so the green
tubes are buried in the gravel the plant will die.
The "bananas" are actually the equivalent of a camel's
hump. They are the storage sites for the plants nutrients.
The correct way to plant them is to set the plant so
the bananas are in contact with the gravel, and white
roots will grow out of the base of the bananas into the
gravel and anchor the plant.

For the "odd shaped" one, I would suggest that you use
line and somthing to anchor the plant so that the
bananas are in contact with the gravel. The plant will
naturally turn the leaves upward to the light over time.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

The green tubes are NOT the roots.

Well I guess that is based on ones interpetion of what a root is. The bananas are put of the plants root system (root tubercle) and can be partially buried in the substrate to anchor them down.

As I said the "bananas" could be pushed into the substrate I didn't say "buried". It's similiar to a potato. A potato is a root, but it also grows smaller roots below it.

My Scapes

Those are some unusual looking banana plants, never seen bananas that long. Usually they're shorter and fuller. It'll be interesting to see how they grow in and adjust...

---

Back in the saddle!

hi robyn,

just had a brief read through your log - you are so much more 'into' the whole planted thing than i am! - i have a 6 foot main tank, fully planted with various swords, including amazon and ozelot, and green tiger lotus. i fertilise with sera florena tabs about once a month and do nothing else, aside from a heavy pruning every 2 months or so and a 40% water change once a week. i have two sets of lights, but they are just 'normal' aquarium bulbs, one lot on from 7am - 9pm, one lot from 11am - 2pm.

algae issues are solved by my faithful sturisoma panamense who eat pretty much all of it, and when i need to give the front glass a scrub, i do. my fish are beautiful and breed regularly (not the sturisoma - that would be TOO exciting!!!), and so while that's the case, i leave well enough alone.

my other small species tank is a 30-litre self-contained unit, planted with anubius and small swords and housing my lovely triple-red cacs, who have just bred for the first time - i only got them 3 weeks ago.

yes, i am in sydney - the inner west. my boyf and i have just moved back here after a year in melbourne. where do you do your fish-shopping? i'm a big fan of slippery little suckers and st george aquariums.

i put some info re: film canisters on ingo's thread. i am sure that they are fine regardless of which company they come from. you can easily glue them to a rock to anchor them and then plant and build around them, or just wedge them under driftwood etc - whatever takes your fancy. how many apisto's do you have?

regards,

justin

Thanks Frank, tetratech & NowherMan6 for the banana plant advice. I wasn't around at all yesterday & didn't know what to do with them, so I have them free floating in some water. Now I know what to do, so thanks for that. I'm not sure if they really "fit" in my tank, but you all seem to say they are fun plants. If I follow you Frank, I just need to place them on the substrate & let them do their thing - may have to fiddle with the funny shaped one, as you say. NowherMan6, these were freebies to make up for a late delivered order, so that may explain why they are unusual looking.

Thanks Justin, I read all your comments - here & in Ingo's log too. Thanks for that. My apistos aren't in this log. They are in low tech tanks, here http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28750.6.htm?138# & here http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28921.2.htm?39# My camera & skills are poor, but you will find various pics of the apistos in the logs. In my 23.G (90L) tank I have a pair of Apistogramma Bitaeniata. I bought this pair from B & C Aquarium @ Matraville. The female recently had her 1st brood (2nd eggs, but first hatching). I only ever saw 5 of them free swimming & she is now continuing to guard her final survivor, who has been free swimming for just over 2 weeks now. In the 20G (75L) I have a pair of Cacateudies Triple Red. I got this pair from Auburn Aquarium. I've also bought other fish (not apisto) from from St George (I was there last night getting my C02 bottle filled). My complaint with St George though is that they are not open at all on Sundays & they close 6pm on Thursday nights too, which is a bummer. I have some endlers that came from SLS, as well I got my ADA soil for the 90L from there. BTW, while pricey, I think the ADA soil makes keeping Apistos easier - keeps the water at the right pH & kH, without having to bother with buffers. Nice to plant in too. I was going to get dehane pair from SLS too, but the Bitaeniata took it's place & I now have no room for the dehane. I'm from Menai, in the Sutherland Shire (near Cronulla, Miranda etc) so St George is not that far from me.

Your lighting set-up is another way I could go, but the compact fluro's mean that I'll get almost the same wattage as 4 x 30w, but without the bulk of 2 light fittings on the tank. I haven't ordered it yet, but I'm close. It will be a PC, with twin 55watt tubes - with twin power cords - so I can have 2 lighting sequences too. Currently I only have the lighting that comes with those Aqua-one aquarium kits - it's pretty low level.

Do you have pics of your tank/s you can share. I don't know what a sturisoma panamense is, but I will look them up now.

Thanks for the help with the film canisters. I was all set to go with them, with the little holes drilled in the ends & everything, when I bought the Bita from B & C. It was the guy there (Barry) who scared me off using them.

Thanks again.

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,
Yes that will work. I was not trying to be critical of the
earlier post. It's just that so many of these plants are
killed off by well meaning folks. If you bury the bananas
too deeply they will turn to mush and the plant will die.
Many figure they are the roots when they actually arn't.
Once they are situated and left alone, long white roots
will grow from the base of the green banana into the
gravel.

I had best luck in growing them when I just put the tips
in the gravel. Of course the tanks currents raised heck
with the idea, so I figured a way to hold them down or
simply planted them in a "dead" corner.

Here is acouple of sites that will help:

http://www.aquahobby.com/garden/e_banana.php

and

http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant,%20Banana.htm

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

the thing to remember with banana lillies is that they are quick and opportunistic growers which will cut out light to your other plants - i absolutely love them, and used to have quite a beautiful set up of driftwood, anubius, and two banana lillies which completely covered the surface with leaves about 12 cm across. the fish in that tank (it had 30 rummies and 3 sturisoma panamense in it) LOVED it and never looked better. so in terms of aquascaping, the plant doesn't take up much space at all except on the surface, and the leaves settle where the current moves them to, not directly above where you plant the roots. so you can't really judge where the plant will end up providing cover. that's the only issue as far as lighting the rest of the tank. oh, they also have enormous root systems once established.

it might sound like quite a few negatives, but sitting on the floor and looking up at the surface of a tank covered in lily pads is pretty damn cool...

regards, justin

Thanks Frank & Justin,

Somehow, I think these banana plants may not be for me, as my lighting is bad enough without all the the shading issues, but thank you both for the input.

Justin, just want to make sure you saw me reply to you on the previous page.

Cheers
TW

hi robyn, sure did see your reply - thanks for that. it is annoying that st george isn't open sundays - i don't have a car (for environmental reasons) so i found that out the hard way by catching a train out there one day from the inner west - not really so far, but an annoying waste of time when i could have been watching my fish!!

my lighting is a twin-bar, so 4 x 30 watt. no bulky lighting at all - just wide enough for my cat to sleep on most of the day. (don't worry - he is too well-fed to even look at the fish, let alone try to catch them).

what other fish do you keep? i'm in a bit of a dilemma at the mo - i bought two trios of flame gouramis as feature fish and they are nest-building and breeding, but they also pick at the new plant growth, which then grows up with tattered edges or holes in the middle - not happy jan. so they might go to another home and i'll find myself a new feature fish.

stock list:
40 harlequins
3 siamese fighter females,
5 kuhlis
3 yoyos
and the troublesome flames... decisions, decisions....

nice chatting, maybe see u at st george one day.

regards, justin

my lighting is a twin-bar, so 4 x 30 watt

As my tank is much shorter than 6ft (only 32inches wide) I don't think a fluro combination like that is available for me. For my tank, to have fluros with that wattage, I'd need 2 twin units, with each globe 30watts.

In this tank my stock is:-

8 harly rasboras
6 sterbai cory
4 rainbows
5 gold twin bar platys
2 guppys (who will probably go soon, 2 be replaced by 2 endlers
3 otos

In the 23.g I have:-

the 2 apistos
2 pencil fish
2 otos

In the 20g I have:-
2 apistos
2 endlers (to move to the 43.5G)
2 glow light rasboras
2 pencils (they may go & I may build up the rasboras)
2 otos

You must have been annoyed to turn up at St George that Sunday. Bummer.

Cheers
TW

Justin,

Hey - you are right on my side of the Harlequin Lover spectrum (although I have Espei), but I guess you knew that.

Robyn, sorry that I did not participate in the Banana Plantation discussion, but I know too little about it.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That's fine Ingo - you are my main conributor to all other queries & I know you have many worries with work & your new apisots. I have put the banana plants in, but if they ever reach their potential of huge leaves, they will have to come out. While they are little, I give them a try & see. The funny shaped one has already sorted itself out a little - probably by trying to seek the light.

Cheers
TW

Here are some shots after tonight's water change.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

from another angle

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

closeup of right hand side. This side is an experiment, full of several plants that probably won't make it in my low light.

I have blyxa, chain sword, lily grass & some sort of red plant (I don't know the name) - so I'll see how long they last.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Your tank is looking pretty sharp. The large chunk of DW seems to give your tank some depth as you have plants sourounding it as ground cover.

How many fish do you have in there?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi Wings, thanks.

I have:-
2 male Endlers
5 gold twin bar Platys (2M / 3F)
7 Harlequin Rasboras
6 sterbai cory
3 otos (not sure if they are all still there - usually only see 2 at a time)
4 Boesemani Rainbowfish (2 M & 2F)

The rainbows were originally to be moved into my empty 4ft tank, but for the moment, I'm banned from setting up that tank. Luckily at the moment, the rainbows are only small. Don't know what I'll do about them as they grow bigger, but they're ok for now. Hubby bought them for me as a gift.

Cheers
TW

I added some some riccia covered rocks at today's water change. It's not as nice as I thought it would look though. The rocks aren't well enough covered, but hopefully time will correct that. It's also a much lighter colour than I expected. I thought there would be a strong colour contrast between the lighter wisteria & the darker riccia, but they are practically the same colour.

First pic is a full shot. Why is my ricca so pale in colour?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

A close up, showing the partly covered rocks. You can see here just how light it is. Is it a trick of tetratech's camera that his riccia looks so dark in comparison to mine?

A platy is zooming in to try munching on the riccia. I've noticed that they are enjoying trying to pull the riccia out through the netting holding it in place.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

This is just in case Rick checks in. You asked for pics of the riccia hair net preparation.

This pic shows the riccia sitting on top of the rock. The hair net is shown, just waiting to be used to secure the riccia. Just keep wrapping net over itself, until it holds.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

You can see here just how light it is. Is it a trick of tetratech's camera that his riccia looks so dark in comparison to mine?

No camera tricks Robyn , although my main group probably shades the foreground ricica more than the wisteria, but the biggest factor here IMO is hardscape. If you look at my tank not including the new riccia rocks almost all of the riccia is separated from the other plants by rock. The rock creates the constrast. and you could enjoy the different texture and shape of the riccia. If the majority of your riccia is simply sitting next to the wisteria than it probably won't show as much. You need to incorporate levels and/or rock to give it depth and interest. Congratulations, you've taken the next step in the wonderful world of aquascaping.

My Scapes

Robyn,

Your great!! I like seeing how people put things together in thank as much as how the tank looks in the end!

The ricca looks good and so does the tank. Everything looks very healthy. /:'

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Thanks tetratech & Rick

It lacks something. The riccia didn't create the contrast I'm looking for & tetratech has hit it on the head.

I need to have more of a distinct separation between the wisteria & the riccia. I need bigger rocks - but not too big - & with interesting shapes. They need to be big enough to create different levels, but not taking away that I want that part of the tank to remain on the low side (except for the wood on the far right). For the moment I can't find such rocks & I won't do anything until I find just the right rocks.

If I had time, engergy & somewhere to put fish & keep filter running in the meantime, I'd also change the gravel to Eco Complete. The gravel is meant to be black, but looks more like grey to me. IMO black would give me a better look than currently in the tank.

Thanks for the input.

Cheers
TW

If I had time, engergy & somewhere to put fish & keep filter running in the meantime, I'd also change the gravel to Eco Complete

I hear you

Exactly my thoughts for the 125G, but I would need an even bigger container. So - who is in this tank now? I could imagine that a bigger plastic bin would be big enough for you to actually house the fishies during a Little_Fish style overhaul

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Rubbermaids are the greatest for such things. I use them all the time for fish stuff. When I moved my tanks it was my saving grace. Now when I do plant trimming I use the cover on a TV food tray as my work bench.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

So - who is in this tank now?

2 male Endlers
5 gold twin bar Platys (2M / 3F)
7 Harlequin Rasbora
6 sterbai cory
3 otos (not sure if they are all still there - usually only see 2 at a time)
4 Boesemani Rainbow fish (2 M & 2F)

Hi Ingo & Wings,

I have 2 x 31G containers on wheels that I use at my water change time, so I could put the fish in those. (That's what I used when I wrecked another tank by adding the ADA soil without emptying - do you remember Ingo?) Not sure if the trickle filter would sit on top ok during the work - I don't want my filter to need cycling all over again, so I'd want to be able to keep it running. But, the other crucial factors, currently missing, are time & energy. One day, one day .....

Anyway, my naughty fish are busily eating away at my riccia

Below is a shot of the rocks. On Wednesday, you couldn't see any of the rocks. They didn't eat java moss, so I wonder why they're eating this.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here is a shot of my very 1st flower ever. And it wasn't there when I bought the plant either, it grew in the tank all by itself. You can see even see a little pearling on the left hand side. It was actually pearling all over, but only the bubble on the left shows in the pic.

Ho hum, says Ingo who has flowers all the time, but this is my FIRST. It took long enough - about 6 months.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Ho Hum



If you ever should go and move the fish out to redo the tank then I would say add the filter media to one bucket and have an air pump going on it. Also, add some of the plants to that bucket (the rest of them with the fish). That should take care of the media and the bacteria.

As to fish eating the Riccia: Java moss tastes , Riccia is . That is why, try it yourself (just kidding on the trying part).
I would assume that the main plant eaters are the platies and the rainbows.

Nice flower, hope you will have many more.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn congrats on the flower

I like the way you setup the riccia rocks running from center to front. Is that the Blyxa to the right?

My Scapes

Robyn, we all know that Ingo has only had one anubias flower, but has taken MANY pictures of it and has released them slowly to us over time. Don't let him tell you any different.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

You found me out. Actually, I never had even one. I took photos of them in varuious fish stores.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the replies guys. Yep, rainbows & platys eat the riccia, but so do the corys. Annoying, as I had to search hard & missed out on 3 bids on ebay before I could get the riccia. None in LFS.

I like the way you setup the riccia rocks running from center to front. Is that the Blyxa to the right?

Thanks tetratech. The effect is lost in a full view, cause the rocks are too low. I need to create more of a division, both in height & separation. Once I find suitable rocks & get more riccia. Yes that is blyxa to the right. In front of the blyxa is dwarf chain sword & behind the blyxa is lilly grass. This side of the tank is an experiment, as the plants shouldn't really grow in my light. I think that's why the chain sword is going yellow & the blyxa isn't as green as it should be. The only one doing well is the lilly grass, my least favourite, but if the others all die I'll pack in more of that instead. I even have one red plant in there & so far it isn't dying, but it's not a fast grower like my wisteria or hygro.

All in all, the tank is less work to maintain these days, with the only faster growers being tucked in behind the big piece of wood.



Cheers
TW

Ingo

Java moss tastes , Riccia is .

I wonder if I should plant it the way the seller instructed. He gave 2 versions, the 1st being how I did it (riccia straight on the rock & then secured). But he said he grows it himself by putting a thin layer of riccia, then a layer of java moss, & then a 2nd layer of riccia on top, then securing it. The mixture might make it taste less appealing.

Any thoughts?

Cheers
TW

Hm, interesting.

All options on mixing other plants with Riccia that I have heard of have been solemnly for the purpose of keeping the plant down and locked to a location. Usually, hair grass is recommended for that purpose.

I never heard off mixing in moss to make the taste worse. I would assume that a fish can distinct between the light green Riccia and the dark green moss. Or is it assumed that the flavor would carry over from one plant to the other?

If you have some spare Moss and some spare Riccia, it sure would not harm to try it, but I don't know the outcome.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As a reminder, here is a shot of the tank before tonight's water change. The creeping wisteria always grows too high for my liking.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here is a shot of the banana plant (or whatever it's called) that came for free with a plant order. It was an extra, 'cause the order was late. There have been at least 2 shoots that have already reached to surface, but I cut them off. As they look now, I quite like them. The stem can reach the surface really quickly. Two days ago, they were all fairly short (about the size in this pic) but tonight, I cut 2 back that had reached the surface & then started to cross the tank.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here is tonight's full shot. The creeping wisteria has been lowered & I have some new rocks. I took the riccia off the old rocks, but didn't even really have enough to cover just one of the rocks. I'll have to try to win another ebay auction for the stuff.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Lastly, a close up of the area with the new rocks.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Very nice Robyn
The wisteria is so easy to cut back that's one reason I like it. The banana plant looks like an Anubias in that pic. Adds some nice interest. Save some money and just wait for the riccia to grow. I started with a tiny amount just enough to partially cover two small rocks and have never purchased anymore.

My Scapes

Nice Robyn,

What is that plant in front of the Blyxa? Tenellus?

Right now your tank actually has a distinct street, on the right of the driftwood with the Blyxa in the back and the other one in the front. It will be interesting to see how the addition of a full Riccia stone at the left of it will change this (hold on to the picture for later comparison).

I am with tetratech, if you have the time then just grow out enough Riccia. On the other hand, it is hard to wait so long to achieve some vision one has right now.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi tetratch & LF. Thanks for the replies.

What is that plant in front of the Blyxa? Tenellus?

LFS told me it's chain sword. Maybe it is Tenellus, I don't really know.

if you have the time then just grow out enough Riccia

It's more whether my fish leave the riccia be or not. Last Wednesday I received a 30cm sq batch of riccia. A week later, all I have left is what you see on that one rock. I mightn't have enough light for it either.

I added additional layers of hair net, to make the fishes work harder to get at it. If this doesn't work, I guess it's back to java moss, but that's not what I really want.

Right now your tank actually has a distinct street....

I think I'm purposely trying to create layers & divisions. The left hand side isn't quite right at the moment, as the hyrgo is still too short. My vision for the left side is:- light green,low growing wisteria, a few inches of dark wood showing above it, with the darkish fern on top. Then rising behind would be the taller & lighter colours of blue stricta & hygro. I've heard others say this too, but there only seems a short period of time when these fast stem growers are just the right height. Then it's time for a trim & I'm left with a couple of weeks when they're too short. That's where I'm at now. My plan for the red rocks, topped with glosso, is that they are to follow the wisteria as it turns to wrap around & behind the big wood. Then to the right, the low field of my experimental plants of Blyxa, chain sword, lilly grass as well as nana anubia. Finished off with branchy wood & java ferns. We don't seem to have NL java fern - not even on-line, but that's what I'd really like to replace the java fern with. One day, I may yet find it. This side also has some crypts left over from the original planting. They really don't fit in, but so far they are healthy & I have no where to put them.

Cheers
TW

It's more whether my fish leave the riccia be or not. Last Wednesday I received a 30cm sq batch of riccia. A week later, all I have left is what you see on that one rock. I mightn't have enough light for it either.

Yeah that's probably the difference growth rates based on the light. I have alot of fish that eat it (rainbow, rams) and I actually starve my fish, so they end up eating more it.

I actually feel I have a pretty good situation with the riccia, because it grows, but not at such a fast rate, so I only have to trim once a month or so. If I increase light probably more pearling, more growth on both the riccia and the stargrass I might actually start to reduce my stargrass to almost an accent instead of a main group. It just grows to fast. It's got to be one of the fastest growers around especially overnite.

My Scapes

Hi tetratech

Thanks for response. I have seen pearling on my riccia, but not consistently. I agree the problem is probably the light - which is giving problems on most of the plants on the right hand side.

I don't know that I'll be able to change the lights, as hubby is really against me doing it. I'm searching the net & asking the manufacturer if there are any instructions about retrofit kits to upgrade the lighting in an Aqua One hood.

Cheers
TW

Weekly update. I've allowed the creepin wisteria to grow in higher this week - no trimming. This was because I have platy fry hiding in it & want to give them as much cover as I can. Even so, I think they have mostly ended up as snacks.

Here is a full shot, with the overgrown creeping wisteria. Note the two lily pad leaves on the surface. Follow the stems down to left hand side of the tank. Everyone was right when the said the banana lily pads will travel all over the place.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Next will come a couple of shots from the top of the tank, giving a better view of the banana lily pad. Looks like even though they seek the light, that they have been burnt a little by getting too close.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Another areal shot. You get a glimpse of my experimental red plant. I don't know what it's called (as I didn't expect to have it long). It's been in there around a month & I've placed it where it gets no shade & is directly under the tubes.

It hasn't died - but the under leaves are greener, I think. You can also see the Blyxa next to it & to the right.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Another experiment - dwarf hair grass.

Having trouble keeping this one in the grave.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

My riccia is starting to grow. It may not show up here, but I can see bright green little shoots peeking out of the hair net.

None at the moment, but I often see it pearling.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

It seems that out of my experimental plants that at least the chain sword is doing more than just existing. It has sent out runners, but not in the direction I wanted. Here is a picture of them crossing in front of my riccia rock. After the photo, I pulled up the runners & redirected them where I wanted them (behind the riccia rock.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

One of these days, I will get out the calendar & count out what week I'm up to. Anyway, here's the start of this week's update.

My experimental red stem plant is no more. I have a gap in the tank where it was & when I can find them, I'll fill in the gap with more chain swords. Out of all the experimental plants on that side of the tank, I think it is the one that is doing the best. The Blyxa is just sort of hanging in there, but the chain swords look nice & green.

The tank hasn't changed much, basically 'cause I'm fairly happy with it. I still like the wood on the right hand side too much to remove it. The fern on my main wood is getting some algae - it's going brown in places.



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

The next few posts are just me trying to capture the beauty of my male Pelvicachromis taeniatus Nigeria Red

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

And another

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

At least from the distance the tank looks very nice

All seems to be lush and healthy, and that is a good thing.

And the first shot of your Nigeria Red is also pretty good, he sure does look very colorful (and mean - did you bug him? ).

How is the hair grass experiment coming along?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

your Nigeria Red is also pretty good, he sure does look very colorful (and mean - did you bug him? ).

That is just how he looks, but he is actually very peaceful. He is my 2nd Nigeria Red. I bought him as a playmate for the one in my 20G, as he looked lonely. I thought this would work, as some detail I found on these fish said they were conspecific peaceful - but my 1st male must not have read up on that fact & he was having none of it. He angrily watched during the acclimatisation process & once I released the intruder, he made an immediate physical change. His face turned the brightest red ever, he puffed up his cheeks to at least double size & opened his mouth to the fullest. I guess this is his fighting look. I had to rescue the intruder within minutes & had no choice but to add him to this tank without a QT period. I hope I don't have any problems with this.

How is the hair grass experiment coming along?

Not too bad. Here is a shot. I do notice some tips that are a bit brown, so I'll keep watching it. I have a bit of a hodge podge of experimental plants in this section, which eventually I'll need to come to some sort of decision of which will stay & which will go. I'm enjoying how they reduce the maintenance in the tank, having this side of the tank with plants that don't need trimming.



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

That's a nice find on the Pelvicachromis taeniatus. I haven't seen those in New York. So they are African but live in soft acidic water different from their cousin Pelvicachromis pulcher.

The blyxa definitely needs strong light. I'm actually surprised it's lasted as long as it has with your current lights.

EDIT: How long has the hairgrass been in there.

My Scapes

Pelvicachromis taeniatus. I haven't seen those in New York. So they are African but live in soft acidic water different from their cousin Pelvicachromis pulcher.

They're West African, I think from a riverine area called Cameroon. Where I bought him, they only had 2 males & I bought both of them. There's one in the 20G too. In the 20G I picked up a female from another LFS, and I'm only hoping that she really is a match. She doesn't have the red on her like the males - but when I googled on the internet, it seemed normal for the female to have a yellow chin instead. They apparently like a low pH, but can live happily in 7 or above. For breeding, soft water with a low pH is best - but this guy has no wife. the water should suit him though, as it fluctuates from 6.8 to 7.5, depending on what time in the C02 cycle it is.

How long has the hairgrass been in there.

Not that long, only since around 8 September.

Cheers
TW

I'm going away tomorrow for 3 nights, so fingers crossed the C02 doesn't run out while I'm gone. Hoping it won't matter too much that the ferts & traces won't get dosed as usual. I think I'd rather leave the tank untouched while I'm gone, rather than ask hubby or my daughter to feed or dose the tank. It should cope for those days I'm away, I'm guessing. All the tanks will miss out on their weekly water change, but even that I assume as a "once off event" will not matter too much.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

It may matter a little, but if you throw in a water change once you are back you should be fine. If your tank would be on the edge to collaps then it would matter more.

Have fun at whatever you are doing for the next few days,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo

Have fun at whatever you are doing for the next few days

5 domestic flights & a couple of driving trips in 3 days, on a business trip. Doesn't found like that much fun. Unfortunately, I will have a couple of these type of trips during the next 6-12 months.

I think whatever mess may happen by the neglect, may be better than what could happen if someone plays with the tank - as I haven't really taught anyone properly. When I went to the marathon in April I asked if someone could feed the small 7G hospital tank & I came home to murky water. I couldn't clear it by doing daily 50% water change over several days & finally pulled the tank completely apart. It had an underground filter & when I took all the gravel out - the gunk under there was unbelievable. Hard to imagine how much the fish would have been overfed to have caused that much gunk in one weekend. Since then, I've never asked anyone to touch any of the tanks.

Cheers
TW

I asked if someone could feed the small 7G hospital tank & I came home to murky water

If you had mentioned how much to feed per day and it hadn't been done right (and all your family members are grown-ups) then this is a sign that they don't really want to take care of your tanks. So - not having anyone do anything may be the best approach .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I agree. Even if I'm gone a week, I don't have anybody feed the tank. Very dangerous.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I'm hoping someone can set me straight here. Way back when I first started out, I've looked back through my earliest threads & I can see Tom Barr suggested I should add the epsom salt 1/2 tspn after the water change. I also thought bensaf said the same, but 1/4 tspn. I don't remember for sure why I'm adding it though.

The subject of adding epsom salt came up in another thread and here is an extract of one of the comments in regards to epsom salt

So_Very_Sneaky Wrote:
Do Not add Epsom salt to a tank with every water
change. Epsom salts can actually cause the fish to be
robbed of fluids. This should only ever be used in cases of constipation, and only in a dip. You should never ever keep a constant amount of epsom salts in your tank.

Now I'm sure that the plant expert Tom Barr would not have recommended the epsom salt if it was going to harm my fish, but So_Very_Sneaky seems very sure of her advice.

I was wondering what other opinions there are on the issue of epsom salts? I don't want to hurt my fish.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I don't know what this salt is for either . Can it be that it was suggested to you instead of Baking Soda or Seachem Equilibrium, the first to buffer KH, the second to buffer GH?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I can only find Tom's response, can't find bensaf's. But what I remember him writing was something along these lines: "you don't need the expensive Seachem Equilibrium, epsom salt will do".

You're an IT wiz - how can I call up all of my threads - not just my active threads? Maybe then when I have some time I can search for bensaf's advice on this (at least I think it was bensaf - could be wrong).

If it's going to hurt my fish, I won't use it .... but there must have been a reason why Tom Barr recommended it. That thread I can find, but Tom doesn't say why I'm adding it.

Thanks for the response Ingo

Cheers
TW

I was close, with my guess that it is either KH or GH related.

Anyway, you don't really need an IT wiz for that

If you remember the forum it was posted in then go there and expand the list of threads to "last year". Then use the find menu (In your browser window, the Edit Menu drop down, option find). Type in your name (TankWatcher) and hit "find next" until you come to the thread that may contain the answer.

If you did not create that thread then your name wouldn't do. In this case try to remember any word that may have been in the title and search by that word.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Epsom salts, or magnesium sulfate, is the accepted way of raising Mg levels in your tank. I think Mg falls under GH as they aren't carbonates. I was adding it in limited amounts at water changes for the nesea when I had it and still add a little bit.

As far as robbing your fish of water: yes, in high enough concentrations. Fresh water fish cant handle high concentrations of any salt like marine fish can. But saying you can't add any MgSO4 to your tank at water changes is silly. It's the same as saying you can't add aquarium salt to your tank. I'm not sure that aquarium salt has a beneficial effect, but we've all seen that low concentrations it won't hurt anybody.

From wetwetbmedia.com

Re: quick Epsom Salt question
Hello again, and thanks for all the help!
<our pleasure>
Could you please explain what Epsom salt does and its proper usage in the aquarium setting? ~Jim
<Okey-dokey... Epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) is a fundamental and necessary component of sea salt but has numerous benefits to life at large. It is used with people and pets (birds, dogs, cats, etc) as a laxative. In the aquarium, this very property helps stressed and struggling creatures maintain better osmotic balance. Thus, a fish with a bumped and swollen eye can get relief (fluid from swollen eye) from Epsom salt. It is added to most dry fish foods to prevent internal blockage from greedy feeding fishes. It also is used in fresh or salt water to raise hardness and electrolyte levels. Dosed in moderation, there are few disadvantages to it. Most doses are 1 tsp to 1 TBSPN per 10 gallons and can be repeated. There is more information in our archives on this topic. Best regards, Anthony>

That's Anthony Calfo...one of the foremost in the reef hobby and propagating corals. Knows his stuff.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty & Ingo for the Epsom salt advice.

Thought I'd share a pic of my 2nd ever annubia flower. I won't get too excited. Do you see to the right of this flower a bent over stem. That is my 1st ever flower. I don't know why, but it only stayed open for a day or so, then the leaf case closed back up around the flower & it bent over backwards on itself. Why would it do this?

I hope this flower doesn't do the same.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

I never saw an anubias flower do that, but they don't usually last very long anyways. Mine have always shed the casing, then the flower kind of dies off. Maybe it realized it was under water.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

You Nana Flower Amateurs

Anyway, the length of the life of a flower in my tanks depends mostly on the tank conditions, low tech = long, high tech = short. Makes sense, as all growth in a high tech is much faster.

In the high tech:

I usually see a closed bud developing for about a week, with the stem extending and the bud beginning to release a stream of really small air bubbles.

The the bud opens and the white flower center emerges, staying healthy for about 2 to 4 days.

Then, the structure starts to desintigrate, often the center falls off after a while (or dies off until only the skinny core is left), followed by the bud leaf. Most of the time though I do not wait for this to happen and trim the stem off after the flower had its hay days.

In the low tech:

The same, but muuuuuuch slower

That's my story and I am sticking to it,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh, 2-4 days. Is that all. I was expecting weeks of enjoyment So, I have already had this new flower for a couple of days, so I should expect it be gone any moment.

Funny that my other one's casing didn't drop off (as well as the flower). The casing closed back up around the flower and all is still there. It doesn't look dead or unhealthy - but should I trim it off?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The tank is looking good. My first Anubias flower did the same thing until I got tired of it and cut it off at a trimming. The one I just got recently bloomed and the disappeared very quickly.

Also a tip incase you have to have someone feed again. This works for flake food. Get some small envelopes and put enough food for each day in each one. Then tell who ever is watching the tank to only put one envelope in at a time no matter what. This way you still dose the food.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Robyn,

Yeah, that may happen, flowers may decide that it is too wet outside . Wait a while and as long as it is not starting to disintegrate you can keep it without any issues.

Rick's tip is good. I have a different form of providing food for a "feeder". I use these one-week pill cases where each day is a separate chamber. They have even the beginning letters of the day imprinted, as such I am able to provide different foods for different days in the right order.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hoping for some quick advice about my chain swords - they are one of my experimental plants on the right side of the tank (experimental due to low light). Anyway, they have taken off with a mind of their own, with little runners & new smaller plants - all going where I don't want them. To replant them, can I separate them fully (ie cut off the runners that link them together & then just plant them where I want them?

Thanks for advice.

Cheers
TW

Yes, you can seperate each plant and replant where you want. Leave just a small amount of the runner on either side of the plant.

Nice to hear they are doing well for you. These are one of my favorite plants

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

In case it is needed, I second Matty

Except: Try not to replant the ones that have only a few shorter leaves yet. They may not be strong enough to build up a sufficient root system on their own. The also are hard to keep planted and always give me the biggest trouble sticking in the groud.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I say do try to keep the small ones as long as they do have a bit of root and 1 leaf of at least and inch and a small leaf or two. I've not gotten anything much smaller than that to grow for me, but if they are that big I can consistantly get them to grow to full size.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks for the chain sword advice LF & Matty. At last night's water change, I did a major trimming of the tank & I think I may have gotten carried away. It is looking a bit bare in there at the moment. As well as trimming the hygro, I decided to redo the right hand side of the tank - which had been the experimental side. Got rid of some of the varieties & stuck with the ones that worked best. The chain sword had been hiding the Blyxa from view, so they have swapped places. From a starting group of about 2 or 3 blyxa, I now have 8 of them. So, they are sort of working in the tank, but not as lush as they would be if they had more light. they are staying quite small - but at least they did multiply. I hope they survive the replanting. The last batch did not survive when replanted. You can now see my crypt & anubia more. The chain swords have moved to behind the Blyxa and again, from a start of 2 plants, I now have lots of them. Made a bit of a mistake. I can never quite tell how everything is going when I'm replanting & I never get the full picture until the hood is back on & the light switched on. While planting, I thought I had put more than enough chain swords back in and threw out what I thought were surplus. Only after they were squashed & worthless did I realise that I should have kept them. Hopefully in another month or 2, I will have enough to fill it all out a bit more. I also thinned out my java fern & again I think I may have taken too much out. Those I have saved though. I have a whole bucket full of java ferns that multiplied in the tank. I'm going to think about if I want to put some back over the couple of days.

No pictures today, maybe I will take some on the weekend.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

seems like you almost did a redo Little_Fish style. A word of caution: replanting a lot and trimming/thinning the rest of the plants at the same time can cause some issues in your tank. Your bio-mass has been reduced and the replanted plants will need all their energy to get settled again.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Bit late on this one but with regard to the Epsom Salts. It's just Magnesium Sulphate. Once you have GH above zero you Magnesium in the water, always , constantly. How many fish live in zero GH water ?

Maybe in very high concentrations there's an issue, I don't know. But we are only talking about adding the equivilent of about 2dgh, and only add in situations where the GH is already low. Completely and utterly harmless to fish. In most cases where Mg is added the water will still be softer and have less Mg then the average tank.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf. I have looked at the ingredients of Seachem's Equilibrium & see that it contains magnesium sulfate. So much for it being harmful to fish.

Thanks for popping in.

Cheers
TW

seems like you almost did a redo Little_Fish style.

Yeah, I sneak them in every now & again - pretty much unnoticed. When I added my large wood with the fern -that was pretty much a full redo as well.

Anyway, here is the full tank shot. It needs a little more filling out. To the left of the hygro is a disappointment - more about that with the next pic.



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

My blue stricta (also seen it called Temple) previously did really well. It always grew tall, hiding the unsightly water intake pipe & the ugly pump. It was always multiplying. For the last couple of months it has not done well at all. See those damaged leaves. There are lots of holes & it just never grows tall anymore. This pic is not really showing how bad it looks - much worse in real life. What do the holes mean? I wonder if before the trimming, the hygro was shading it too much - but I think it has been doing badly well before it became shaded by the hygro. Any suggestions? I like this plant & would like to see it work again.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Creeping wisteria to the left, java & Ricca on rock in the middle. Not too much riccia though - most of 30cm I bought has been eaten - but there is some. The pic doesn't show it, but they do contrast each other nicely. The re-positioned blyxa (never can remember how to spell that) is just to the right. I don't know yet if it will survive the move. Parts don't look so good anymore.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

The new right hand side. With the hair grass & Lilly grass removed - as well as a major thinning of the Java fern, you can now see the crypts & the anubias. I hope they don't attract algae now they are so exposed to the light. They've been shaded so long, they wouldn't be used to it.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

This one shows my chain sword peeping over from the back, but really it is just because I like my nigerian red male so much. Such a peaceful and well behaved fellow. Tries to come to the surface for food, but really, I think he dislikes the ill mannered feeding behaviour of the other greedy occupants. Think he finds the rainbows in particular too pushy.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Potassium, Potassium, Potassium

Holes AND stunted growth = lack of Potassium

In 99.9% of all situations, at least

Otherwise, tank looks very nice. If you can afford it, maybe the right side shouldn't grow all in. This way it would stay more of an open playground.

Blyxa was spelled right

I guess you will run out of Riccia soon, if the mass is in decline because of eating. Maybe you want to save a little and build it back up in another tank.

And the nigerian is really looking very nice

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF,

Potassium - that's the KN03, isn't it? I currently dose 1/2 tspn 3 times a week. How much do think I should increase?

Yes, I love my Nigerian For looks, he is my current favourite fish. Due to his peaceful nature, I'd even give him a mate - if I could only find one & then be sure they are a true match.

Cheers
TW

Nooooo

While there is some potassium in KNO3 (the K is the potassium, the whole thing is called Potassium Nitrate), there is much more N (nitrate). You use this substance primarily to beef up the nitrate. A substance like K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate, best as it only has an impact on K), or (I think you use it) to a limited value Seachem Equilibrium (which also influences other things, like calcium and magnesium and as such GH) adds the missing parts.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF,

Hmmm, K2SO4. I don't have any of that. I will have to track some down. I guess I can get some from the same place I got my KH2P04 & KN03.

When I get it, how much should I use & how frequently. I think all my tanks must lack this, as I have holes in leaves in them all.

Thanks for the tip.

Cheers
TW

It's near impossible to overdose k2so4 so I usually add a ppm every day. The stuff doesn't like to dissolve in water very much so I think that you'll end up dosing a few ml of the highest solution possible. I got mine from greg watson. That's where I get all my ferts.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Actually, my powder dissolves rather well

As I am "feeding" a quite large dosage of Equilibrium after each water change I do not add extra Potassium until the 3rd (=last) "feeding" of macros during the week.

Overall, the goal is to have your potassium levels (in ppm) equal to the nitrate level, if you follow EI that means around 20ppm. The problem is that there seems to be no cheap measuring kit for potassium. As such I had to hunt down the %of content within all the components that I add to evaluate how much potassium I need.

But as Matty says, it is hard to OD on this stuff. I would say that if you get your hands on K2SO4 then you could easily add 3x1/8tsp to 3x1/4tsp without any issues.

Also, isn't K2SO4 available in gardening stores as Stump Remover? I don't remember.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Stump remover is KNO3. I'm not sure there is a common source out there under a different name for K2SO4.

What I meant about the K2SO4 not dissolving well is that it comes to saturation quickly(after a certain point, no more will dissolve). It's impossible to make a super concentrated supply like with KNO3. For my fert bottles I have 1ml of my solution = a certain amount in my tank. With PO4 and KNO3 it's easy to make that 1ml=1ppm in my tank, but the K2SO4 the highest concentration gives 1ml=.28ppm in my tank.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty for clarifying that I only released nonsens when I spoke about Stomp Remover

So Robyn, that's not it then.

Matty - Why do you make a solution in the first place? I just mix them up with tank water before adding it. Is your quantity so small that a measuring spoon would not work?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Matty for clarifying that I only released nonsens when I spoke about Stomp Remover

you were really close if that's any consolation.

Yep, for 1ppm of KNO3 a day I'd be adding less than a tenth of a teaspoon, so accuracy is a little hard. I like to add my ferts daily, for a number of reasons, but mostly cause I forget to do it if it's not ritualistically every morning before I leave for class. This also keeps the ppm of nitrate around 10.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty & Ingo

If I can find some, then I will add K2SO4 3x1/8tsp or maybe 3x1/4tsp, on the same day as I add the other dry ferts. A hydroponics place supplied the other powders, so I hope they have this too.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
Stump remover is the common source for KNO3. Just be sure
that what you purchase does not have anything added to
speed up the decaying process.
Fleet Enema's are the common source for K2SO4. Again,
be sure to purchase the green package. The other color
package has additional "stuff" that is not ideal for the
aquarium.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the info Frank and thanks for popping in.

Cheers
TW

Hate to be the correction guy, but Fleet Enemas are used to dose PO4. The chemical formula is H2NaPO4.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

You probably don't need to dose Potassium separately. Your getting 3 to 2 ratio of No3 (N) to s04 (K) in KNO3, which if dosed 3 times a week should bring you to within EI ranges. Remember EI ranges are 10-20ppm for No3 and so4 so you could be off by alot and still hit your mark.

I personally never dose so4 and have never seen any deficenies that are known to be caused by low potassium.

All I dose is:

KNO3
PO4
Flourish

My Scapes

I would still dose that K.

Even though you're dosing KNO3, the signs still point to a K deficiency. Follow what the plants tell you...

Love the windelov mound, by the way

---

Back in the saddle!

Thanks matty, tetratech & NowherMan6 for popping in and for the advice. I don't know if it's the potasium or not, but I do know I'm getting holes in the leaves, even with following the EI method strictly - so something is off. I figure it can't hurt to try the potassium, so if I can find it (haven't rung them yet) I will dose & see if it might mean no holes on new leaves.

It's a bit of a trip to get the stuff, but I will be passing that way on the 19th. In the meantime, I have some seachem equilibrium I've never used. Ordered it on line, when someone in another thread scared me off epsom salt. Instructions say to use so much of the stuff - but maybe until I get my potassium, it will help a little? Do you think so - or will it mess up my EI dosing?

Thanks again.

EDIT,

Love the windelov mound, by the way

NowherMan6, forgot to say thanks. I love it too, but I hope it stays low & doesn't grow much taller.

Cheers
TW

Even though you're dosing KNO3, the signs still point to a K deficiency. Follow what the plants tell you...

Hear Hear!

Exactly my feelings. As holes in the plants don't simply happen for no reason, and in the vast majority of cases are potassium related, and given that some OD on potassium is not harmful, there is no reason not to add it.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi guys,

I have a question about the traces. I don't think we have the tropica brand I've reading you all discussing, so I use Seachem. I have always ordered on-line Seachem Fourish Trace (a broad range of trace elements demonstrated to be necessary for proper plant health and growth). By error on my last order, I must have ordered Seachem Flourish (a comprehensive plant supplement for the natural freshwater aquarium. It contains a rich assortment of important micro elements, trace elements and other nutrients. These include calcium, magnesium, iron and other important elements that have been shown to be beneficial to aquatic plants).

I'm wondering, is Flourish better than Flourish Trace. It seems to contain more, but is it at the cost of the Trace elements being lower? Because Flourish Trace on it's own didn't seem to include iron, I've also been adding that separately on the same days I add Trace.

Which product do you think would be best for my long term use.

Thanks.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

You may remember that I not too long ago ran out of TMG and that there was none available anymore. When asking around here I was informed that the most proper replacement would be Flourish and not Trace, so that would mean that your accidental purchase is for the better

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I use flourish, not trace, as one of the 4 brands of trace supplements that I use. As such I can't comment on it specifically other than it seems to have a great amount of different nutrients that aren't found in my other traces. All in all, the mix is working pretty good IMO.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Robyn,
I just happened to come across this, you might have seen it but it's an example dosing chart for EI. They also note so4 dosing as optional. But what nowher said about "what the plants are saying" is good advice. I will be curious to see if it's due to a lack of K.

From EI Dosing chart
Note: K2SO4 is not required for dosing unless you need the extra Potassium (K). This K is found in KN03 and KH2P04. Dosing these two according to above will yield sufficient K levels. Therefore, one will be fine dosing only KN03 and KH2P04, and Plantex. If one needs to increase their K levels with K2S04, add the same measured amount as KH2P04. For example, if one is dosing 1/2 tsp of KH2P04, then dose 1/2 tsp of K2S04.
In true regards to EI, added excess K is not detrimental in any event

Attached Image:


My Scapes

Thanks Matty & Ingo for the thumbs up for the Flourish.

Thanks tetratech for the extra info on ferts & the handy table.

Cheers
TW

I'm playing around with replacing this tank. Will need some more time to think about it, but how about a tank of the below dimensions:-

36" in length
18" in width
24" in height

This will give me 67.3G, instead of my current 43.5. I'll have a bit extra size in all directions & most importantly, I can get a cannister filter & whatever light fitting I want. I'd be allowed to set this new tank up straightaway, as long as I gave up on the 4ft tank & shut this one down.

What do you think about this size tank. I like the 24" height, as less frequent trimming required. Are there any issues about the light not reaching the bottom of the tank. Light would be around 200watts (compact PCs I think).

Any issues with this tank size? Comments appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW

Remember that tall tanks are hard to scape, and for it to look good many times you have to ignore the top 3rd of the tank. You could think of it as a 75, just a foot short on one side. Something similar would be the 50 like I have. It's 36X18X18, and would be easier to light and scape IMO. Either way you go a loverly tank it shall be.

At 2 ft a large % of light is lost, but with ~200w, I don't think you will have trouble growing any plant due to light requirements. If you are going with the 2x96w pc, I think that should be plenty.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah Robyn,

I am with Matty, you basically would have his 50, just higher, or my 40 and much higher, or, half the lenght of my 125 and same height.

Albeit I am usually in sink with "the bigger the better", this shape would not be my favorite. Get a longer and deeper one, height is not so important (as in, keep it less heigh).

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Matty & LF for the advice on tank sizes. I will consider for a bit longer, but I'm still not sure if I want higher than I have already, which is nearly 18inches. I can't go wider than 18 inches, as I'm limited by the cupboard width it sits on. If the tank remains in the same position, it can't go longer than 36inches - as it is getting too close to the window.

Another reason not to rush in with the decision is that I maybe have tentative permission to buy & set up a 4ft tank (but wider & taller than the 2nd hand one I bought recently - it's a narrow & low tank). Still only a maybe, but I'm not going to rush into a new 3ft if I have any chance of setting up a 4ft.

Just finished water changes on all 3 tanks & it's now 1.30am. Trimmed my riccia for the first time tonight & I am about to attach my harvest to another rock. I had more riccia than I thought. Some of my riccia is a dark green & some is a very light colour. I wonder if tetratech's is the same? I thought the dark growth was java, as I grew my riccia on a java base. On closer inspection on trimming, I can see it is mostly riccia. Riccia leaves (or whatever you call these on moss) are very different to java moss. Strand by strand, I removed most of the underlining java moss & will now use it for the base for the new riccia rock.

One of the anubia plants in this tank is constantly flowering - though really I see little point, as they only last a couple of days. It is only this plant though - none of the others can be bothered it seems.

That's it for now.

EDIT. I think I see improvement since I started adding K2S04. I'm sure I see new growth that doesn't have the holes, but as I hadn't previously trimmed off the effected leaves, I'm not sure. They're trimmed off now - so I should know for sure by next water change.

EDIT no 2: Yay, I have enough riccia to cover 3 additional small rocks - just hope these rocks will get enough light for riccia to grow as well as it did on the front rock.

Cheers
TW

And where is the picture that shows us these new Riccia rocks?

Glad to read that it seems as if your fert correction shows results.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nothing much new in this tank, other than to say my Tenellus and blyxia are going great guns, especially since they are not supposed to in my low light tank. I guess the C02 & the ferts are saving the day. The only criticism of my tenellus is that it multiples where I don't want it to. It had runners growing all through & around the blyxia, but I managed to get it out without uprooting the blyxia.

I am very close to removing all of my stem plants in this tank. My thoughts for the left side are to take all stems out & push my wood with the fern towards the back, have low growing wisteria at the very front & I will have one more try at a red plant in between the wisteria & the wood.

I think Bensaf told me once the name of a red plant that may have a slightly lower light requirement. I'll try to find the name & see if it is available here in Aus.

The right hand side will stay more or less how it's been for a while, although I might try for some bigger rocks than those I have. The current rocks get lost amongst the plants, even though they are low plants. Shame to have touproot the riccia, to move to any new rock - 'cause even that is doing as well as I could expect in my tank.

That's it for now.

Cheers
TW