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Hi Dog,
Absolutely nothing is wrong with UGFs. Don't over stock
your tank, vacuum the gravel at a regular interval, use
cories and MTS snails to keep the upper reaches of the
gravel loose, and use a power head to provide the water
movement. Its that simple. Never wears out, and there is
nothing to replace.
Check out this link to a thread on this same forum:
[link=http://fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Technical%20Tinkering/60768.html?200506211016]http://fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Technical%20Tinkering/60768.html?200506211016" style="COLOR: #FF00FF[/link]

As with just about everything, there are those that like,
or dislike, just about everything. UGFs are one of those
things. Some, such as myself, love them, others have had
problems, or have heard of folks who have problems and
will tell anyone that they are miserable.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

The only maintenance required for a UGF is gravel vac, and you should be doing that anyway. If you have powerheads you need to take them apart VERY OCCASIONALLY and clean them, with the powerheads you can stock rather heavily. They would probably make too much current for the bettas, though. My UGF has been working without a hitch, die off of fish, or any other calamity in a 55 gallon near 10 years(and through 5 moves).

I also do like the HOB bio wheel and the aqua clear, which are on my smaller tanks.

Hi,
I used an Undergravel filter for a few months when I first set my tank up.
Never ever again.
I did really good maintenance, and when I took that thing out and found the gross brown liquid "feces" underneath of it, I will never look back.
My sister also used a UGF and hers grew mold about 4 days after water changes. Hers was also disgusting under when she removed it.
I havent had fish die in my tank like when I used an UGF.
I would highly recommend either Eheim or Fluval or Rena Xp series canister filters, or Cascade hang on the backs.
Cascade makes a really good hang on filter. I use one on my angelfish breeding tank, and the water stays sparkly all the time.


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Hi,

As far as the first two items that you mentioned are
concerned...
In a well planted tank you would swirl your hand over the
plants to lift up the detritus into the water column.
In tanks that are heavily planted, the substrate is
generally 3-4 inches thick, you would not clean the planted
areas at all. That would preserve the integrity of the
fertilizer sticks or tablets.
In tanks that use sloping substrates you can block some
of the slots (everyother slot, or every two or three slots)
in the thin substrate section, and leave the back ones
alone.

I don't know how small an output powerhead is available.
That could cause problems in a small tank, say 15G and
smaller. I have a 30G tank, and while the two plates of
the UGF each have a hole for an uplift tube, I have them
all but one capped off and the one is in the corner of one
end of the tank.

No problem with not using one... I just wanted to set some
possible wrong conclusions straight.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Frank,

Sorry if I confused you by making you believe that you confused me :%) :%) :%)

No, you didn&#8217;t. I meant to say that the thought alone of a potential problem with the UGF (and it&#8217;s consequences of having to remove the gravel and the plants to get it out) is enough for me to not get one in the first place.

Well, I didn&#8217;t specify what problems this could be and you already mentioned that there are no problems that have to be expected, but I remember that I have read somewhere about potential issues and tried to find them again.

I thought it might be interesting to mention them here:

One site mentions something about the possibility that heavy debris might be caught under the UGF plates and cause serious issues (major ammonia spike) if the power goes out. The listed suggestion to avoid this problem is to deep vacuum the gravel all the way down to the UGF. My concern here is two-fold.
1) What if you have some form of fertilizer in your gravel? Wouldn&#8217;t you suck out a rather significant portion of it?
2) A little more general &#8211; How would you vacuum the gravel if your tank is well planted?

Another site, that I am unable to find again (so I have to recall it from memory), mentions an issue that occurs in particular (but not only) in tanks with different gravel heights (sloped). Given the nature of water to choose the way with the least resistance, it could form channels in the gravel that reach the UGF. Other areas that are not within this channel system will get clogged with debris and create a potential problem (ammonia?) in the tank.
based on this point I decided not to get one.

An additional remark that I would like to make is that a power head might not be the right solution in all cases. For example, a smaller tank with fish which are not too wild about current (i.e. Gouramy)

Frank, thanks for all the details,

Ingo


Last edited by Little_Fish at 27-Jun-2005 12:53

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Guys,
In reading the response from "Little_Fish," I may have
misled you. First, if you already have the tank setup,
not even I, would tear it apart to install a UGF.

However, if you have a newly purchased tank, and have not
yet dumped in the gravel, poured in the water, and stirred
in the fish, then (I) would definately use a UGF.

There is no maintenance required on a UGF. You don't have
to uncover it, take it out and wash it, you don't have to
remove a sponge clean it and replace it, you don't have
to remove any charcoal and replace it.

All you have to do is perform regular tank maintenance.
Maintenance you should be doing weekly.

Weekly you should be changing out 10-20% of your water.
While doing that with a syphon, in a planted tank, wave
your hand over the plants and bare parts enough to swirl
the excess food and fish poop (detritus) up into the water
column where you with the syphon and the tank's filter
can catch it and remove it.
Depending upon on how stocked your tank is and with what
(Cardinals, or grown Oscars) you should push the python
or similiar attachment into the gravel to clean the bare
(unplanted) parts of the substrate. Only do 1/4 of the
tank at a time. Too much and you will destroy the bacterial
colonies that live in the gravel changing ammonia to nitrite
to nitrate. Press the end of the syphon into the gravel
down to the filter plates, pull the syphon up slightly to
allow the water to swirl the gravel within the tube and
when the water is clear, raise the tube even higher so the
gravel falls out of the tube and back to where it came from.
Use the syphon tube like a cookie cutter, and press it into
the gravel so it leaves "tracks" like this: OOOOO.

Again it should be done monthly (if overstocked or large
waste producing fish are in the tank) or, quarterly if
small fish or lightly stocked.

All this is something you should be doing every time you
do your regular tank maintenance. You should never have
to tear the tank apart and remove all the gravel to do
maintenance on a UFG.

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

GEEZ, think me weird but I like the whisper.cleans the water well enough. buddy of mine has a pair of them on his 55 and they out-filter his hobs by a long shot. I know the water coming out of my whisper is a lower flow than most hobs but its also dleaner and just as easy to maintain.
Never really tried an undergrabel filter, tho one day I'm tempted to, and I think a cann is just overkill for anything smaller than a 55. But what Frank said is so true, everyone here has their own likes and dislikes!
I also run the marineland penguine on my 10 gal and it works very well too. would someone plz post about how to hook up the undergravel filter to a powerhead. I'm thinking og doing it for my 10 gal but all I can find runs by airstones. I'd rather do the powerhead thing

Last edited by divertran at 27-Jun-2005 10:04

thanks for the replies. on my next tank i am going to use a ugf and a over the side filter.

MONKEYS ARE COOL, BUT SEA-MONKEYS ARE BETTER.

Dog,

Frank is right, there are many people here and we all have different opinions about the same things.

Take me for example, I have never used an UGF and don&#8217;t know anybody personally that did or does. Nevertheless, I would never get one. The idea that I would have to take out my gravel and my plants (basically messing up my tank completely) just to get to this thing in case it breaks (for whatever reason, don&#8217;t bother to ask how this could happen in the first place, I don&#8217;t know) is enough for me never ever to get it.

But in short, different opinions are good because it allows you to form your own, then present it here at FP and mess with our minds.

Have fun,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm thinking about upgrading filtration in one 10g and my 15g. I have a 10g that I'd like to make into a home for dwarf puffers, female bettas, or a single male betta. Also, I have a 15g molly/platy fry grow-out tank. I bought it used a few weeks ago, and it came with a Whisper 5-15. It filters well enough, and doesn't produce a current that's too strong for the fry. Anyway, I'm hoping to find a filter that would be strong enough for a 15g, but not too much for a 10g. What do you guys think of these filters that I've been looking at?

Marineland Penguin 100B Power Filter (up to 20g)
Fluval 1 Plus Underwater Filter (up to 20g)
Aquaclear 150 Power Filter (up to 30g)
Marineland Penguin 150B Power Filter (up to 30g)
Fluval 2 Plus Underwater Filter (up to 30g)
Eheim Aquaball 2210 (up to 42g)

I don't have any experience with internal filters, so I don't know what they're worth. In all likelihood, I'll end up making the 10g a home for one of my bettas, but I'd like the option of having a filter that could handle a bigger bioload, just in case I decided on different occupants.

If there are any other filters you guys would recommend, I'd really appreciate any suggestions.

Last edited by dsa at 22-Jun-2005 23:00

dsa

I have just purchased the Eheim Aquball 2206 it has a three year gurantee suitable for up to 45Lt 12USGal Lph380 Gal/h100.

Yes it is quality that counts

Keith

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What is wrong with under gravel?

MONKEYS ARE COOL, BUT SEA-MONKEYS ARE BETTER.

the aqua clear's are awsome but can be expensive at times i mean i was gonna get one of 'em but their pricy in my area so i got an EHIEM liberty hang on filter which i think is even more expensive than aqua clear but i paid $28 when it realy costed $70 so not a bad deal!

Too true, Tim. My cannister has a 75gph pump in it...I've got it so stuffed with media that it only pumps out about 5gph, but it's crystal clear. I've got so many layers of different kinds of sponges and bioball things and floss and carbon and stuff that nothing comes back out but water

My HOB's, on the other hand, miss a lot of junk

opiate - canister filters are about quality, not quantity. They are much more efficient than other types of filtrations, yet flow smaller armounts of water. It's a cleaner water when it comes out, as compared to HOBs.

Any of the filters you listed were fine, i have a leaning towards the bio wheels NO Undergravels !! Bite your tongue

This is gonna sound strange but i think cannister filters are a complete was of time and space! I'm currently running an Eheim cannister filter and it does absolutely nothing compared to the intank submersable filter i have, that was like half the price of the Eheim! it does 800 liters an hours and cleans my tank so damn well... that the Eheim is going to make way for a couple more of these filters! give em ago!

You might want to go with a cannister if you can afford it...they're great because they're completely customizable and you can sit them down on the floor where they're out of sight

I was too cheap to buy a cannister so I built one

HOB's tend to be the standard for most peoples tanks because they're not too expensive, somewhat customizable, and they do a decent job. HOB's with Bio-wheels on them tend to be more expensive and a little louder, but they keep the tank more stable.

Have a look around and see what's available...find one you like that's rated for yer tank size (take the pump rating (in GPH) and divide it by yer tank's volume (10g, or 15g or whatever)...this will give you yer turnover rate (how many times the filter pumps the tank thru the filter every hour) and make sure that it's between 5 and 15 for a community tank, or 'bout 3-5 for a betta tank) and get it

If it helps any, I've got somewhat custom filtration systems on almost all of my tanks (modified filters, custom cannister, etc)

Have fun

i have got to say... go the undergravel filter i have had these reccommended to me by many, and i have run them for years, i have never had issues