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Hi all,

I'm going to set up a pressurized CO2 injection system. Actually I went to buy the set up on Satureday, but wouldn't you know it they had everything in stoock except CO2 gas cylinders ! There's a gas supply place near my office I'm going to check there today for a small cylinder.

I have a couple of questions though. Things seem to have changed on the CO2 accessories front. Whereas before some these items were hard to find there now seems to be a dazzling array to choose from. I've basically sorted out a regulator, needle valve and bubble counter. When it comes to getting the CO2 to dissolve in the water there seems to be a wide range of options. I saw diffusers of all shapes and sizes and atomizers.

Questions one is which is the better option a diffuser or atomizer, which is the better option and what really is the difference between the two. BTW it's a 65g tank.

Also I know a solenoid is pretty much optional. Don't know much about them (actually nothing). Can someone explain to me what exactly the solenoid does? How does it work, ease of use, are they worthwhile having etc ?

All the equipment here is very cheap so I'm going with the best I can get, complete set up without solenoid is about $90, with solenoid $110. That includes CO2 cylinder, tubing, regulator, needle valve, bubble counter, diffuser/atomizer, and or solenoid. Anything else I need ?



Last edited by bensaf at 03-Oct-2004 21:53

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

If you are planning on using a bubble counter then you wont need the solenoid. The solenoid is used for automation if you want to spend the money on a PH monitor or Computer. The PH computer tells the solenoid when to open and close to release CO2. It takes the guess work out of delivering the C02 and makes your PH more stable.....without bubble counting or hours of adjusting.

BTW, if you have a Pepsi or Coke distributor close to you I would check them for your C02. Food grade CO2 is IMO better and safer to use (for your tank) since it has higher purity. Sometimes your gas place will also carry food grade CO2, but it just depends on the store.

BTW, the solenoid might not be a very good one for that little of a price increase. I paid $134 just for my solenoid, $300+ for my PH computer,and $110 for my 20 lb CO2 bottle (but I own it).

Last edited by DarkRealm Overlord at 03-Oct-2004 22:05

Thanks DRO,

Won't need the solenoid then. Automation is another days work !

The cheap prices are one of the benefits of Indonesia. Don't know about the US or Aus, but here in Asia the planted tank scene is booming. As a result there is a huge range of equipment available, particularly by Singapore and Taiwanese manufacturers. Co2 tanks are also very cheap, they may not be the prettiest but they are solid. Most the Asian manufacturers like Azoo are now selling there own small Co2 cylinders, again at reasonable prices.

BTW, any thoughts on the diffuser/atomiser? Shops I looked at had about 20 different options available.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bernard

If you add Co2 to your planted tanks the plants will grow so fast there will be no room for the fish.

In OZ they are asking over $300 for a complete set up of Co2.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Keith

Yep, I would definately class extra growth as a dis advantage And to be honest that's not what I'm looking for. What I am looking for is that lushness that only CO2 can give. While my plants do good compared to an injected tank you can see the difference, the Co2 ones have that bit of extra health. I like to call it "juiceiness" they really do look lush and soft and healthy.

As I am serious about this tank and the plants and with my personality being the type to likes to learn with a touch of obsessive/compulsive traits thrown in I feel I owe it to myself to at least try to better what's already there.

But maybe I should be checking out the prices of chainsaws too :%)

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

as i understand it, the difference between the atomizer and diffuser is how the co2 gets into the water. the diffuser usually traps the co2 into a cup of some kind and the atomizer "crushes" the co2 bubbles. but maybe frank will step in and fill in the correct details for you

and i just want to say that i found a regulator/needle valve combo for $50 at a welding supply store here in town, but i got the co2 tank and bubble counter/reactor for free from my vet. the only problem was tracking down some co2 grade air hose, which i finally found after going to MANY bar supply stores.

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"That's the trouble with political jokes in this country... they get elected!" -- Dave Lippman

Hi,
Gosh Ya go out of town to the mountians and folks start
mentioning ur name.

Generally speaking there are two ways to get the CO2 into
the water and in each case the rule is: The longer the
Gas is in contact with the water, the more efficient
the transfer is and the higher the CO2 concentration will
become.

So, instead of using an ordinary airstone, you use a
diffuser. The really good ones are made of "slintered
glass" and are ineffect, really fancy airstones that are
relatively easy to clean and produce extremely, very, very
small bubbles. These are so small that they are subject
to the currents within the tank and drift all over as they
become absorbed while working their way towards the surface.
Atomizers are the same thing with a different name.

The other way to get CO2 gas into the water is to use
what is called a "reactor." This is a chamber in which
the gas and water are mixed. Generally they contain a
bunch of passages that the water and gas are mixed in and
forced through. The gas and water are injected at the
top, and the enriched water exits out the bottom. The
gas is injected through an opening at the top, and the
water is pumped into the top also using a pump of some
sort (I use the output of one of my UGF power heads).

Personally, I prefer the reactor method, but then thats
just me, either way works.

As far as the solenoid is concerned, it is used to turn
the gas on and off. Once you set the regulator for, say
one or two pounds, and the needle valve so that you get
the number of desired bubbles/second, you don't want to
keep adjusting them which is what you would have to do
if you turned the CO2 on with the lights and off when
the lights go off.

Some folks use the solenoid in combination with a small
"controler" (another word for computer). A pH probe is
kept immersed in the tank proper, and that is connected
to one input on the controler. The solenoid is connected
to the output, and the controller is adjusted to a desired
pH value. When connected, the regulator is set, and
needle valve is set to deliver a specific number of bubbles
per second to the reactor or difuser, then the controler is
turned on. The probe reads the pH, and tells the solenoid
to open and send gas into the system, or turn off and stop
the gas. Some folks have the solenoid connected to a
timer to shut the gas off when the lights are off, and
open the solenoid when the lights come back on.

Honestly, unless you find the fish gasping at the surface
in the morning just before lights on, then you DON'T need
to turn the gas on and off. If your KH is reasonable
(around a 3 or more) then the pH, while it will shift,
will not be dangerous and the fish will easily, without
stress, go from dark to dawn with no trouble.

The dark hours are when plants shift from releasing O2
to using O2, and thus competing with the fish. However,
unless you have really, really, over stocked the tank,
and the tank is practically an impenetrable jungle,
your chances of having the fish gasping are near zero.

Frank

Last edited by FRANK at 05-Oct-2004 16:38

Last edited by FRANK at 05-Oct-2004 16:39

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks FRANK,

No more mountain retreats without leaving contact details Ok

I'll probably go with the atomiser. The reactors I saw are as you describe and some are pretty big. Like the fact that I can hide the atomizer quite easily.

With regard to start up I understand to avoid to quick a pH swing start out at some thing like 1 bubble every 5 secs then work up to 1 bubble a sec. That sound good? Any reccomendations ?

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi Ben,
Yup, the reactor can be an ugly thing. I've got
my eyes out for an external one that I can drape
off the back of the tank and replace the one I have
hanging inside the tank.

In the initial start of CO2 injection I've seen,
and used, the initial rate of 1 bubble/second
suggested.
It's easy to time, and makes a convenient jumping off
point. Along your lines of thinking, I would wait
to do it for the beginning of a weekend, use a pH
monitor such as Pinpoint, and watch it at a regular
interval.

I tested my water's chemistries (pH, KH) and then
looked at the chart to see where I was just before
turning on the CO2. Then I determined where I wanted
the tank to wind up (on the chart) and began injection.
If you are going to move the pH by a large amount, say
1., then I'd do it in say, two steps, and take about
24-48 hours to reach that point.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--