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Well I have an Ich outbreak in my tank - not sure how it happened as it has been months since I introduced a new fish, but regardless I am on my way to the store to get me some meds.

Does anyone know if it is recommended that I also add a bacteria supplement such as API Stress Zyme?

Also I looked at my biological filter last night and there appears to now be long brown sludge hanging on it. Has the basteria on my filter died? Should I trash the filter and replace it?

Thanks,
Chris

i do not know anything about the meds, but i do know alot of diseases or infections can lay dormant in a fish for months or more.also he brown sludge i dont think is anything bad, as i get that on mine and my tanks are all cycled with parameters in check.it probably just means the filter is in need of being replaced because it is probably just decaying food and other wastes that is building up there.
in order to really help you we need your parameters. we need to know ammonia,nitrite,nitrate,temperature etc..

Hi Chris,
To treat Ich, simply go to your LFS and look at the
various medications that are available for treating that
parasite. Which one you choose will depend upon what type
of fish are housed in your aquarium.
The main ingredient in most of the medications is a form
of Copper (Cu) and that can be deadly to some types of
fish. Read the information on the back of the container
and ask the store owner. Generally the store owner is more
knowledgeable than some of the workers.

If your aquarium filter has carbon in it, remove the carbon
before adding the medication to the tank. The carbon will
adsorb the copper (take it out of solution) and nullify
the curative properties of the medication.

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Read the thread in Topic ---->Getting Started --->"Lighting" the 3rd page. My husband was complaining about our filter until I posted it. Frank and Bablefish gave some great advice on what's acceptable and what's bad. You have to scroll down about 3-4 replies to get the info you need.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

What frank said on the meds . Get one that is compatible with your fish. There are some out there for more sensitive fish if you have them.

Bacteria can be useful after treatment as many of the meds can be rough on the biofiltration process. I've treated ich with and without adding bacteria (Cycle in my case) never had a death either way. Most important thing is to follow the directions as stated on the medication.

Sounds like your filter needs more regular maintenance. Kelly mentioned our responses in a thread she started up.

Basically you want to alternate the rinsing out of your sponges in used fishtank water in order to preserve some of the bacteria. What I do is clean out one sponge in some of the water I remove during a water change then in a few more water changes clean out the other one. Remember it takes a few weeks for the nitrifying bacteria to fully develop so you don't want to ever gravel vac the whole tank and clean all the filter media on the same day.

Sponges clogged with fish waste and algae and everything else won't allow the water through and wont function properly. It doesn't take introduction of new fish into a tank to cause ich. Plenty of things can stress a fish from swings in temperature to poorly function filtration.

Let us know how the meds go.


^_^

Where I live in Aust and in particular my cooler area you can guarantee if you are not careful you will get an ICH infection in the tank. It comes through our water supply as soon as the colder weather sets in.
For this reason I take all my water directly from my HOT hot water supply (not a hot storage unit) this kills it also I store the water for one week also by doing this if the heat does not kill it being without a host will.
I know since I have been doing this NO Ich except when I bought one infected Cardinal Tetra.

Here is a lot of very useful information about Ich I strongly suggest you copy and print this out for future reference.
If you have any more questions please ask.


WHITE SPOT ICH

White spot Parasite, Ichthyophthirius multifiliis

This disease is easy to recognise, as the skin of the infected fish becomes covered with white spots, each the size of a pinhead. Each spot represents the site of one, or sometimes two, parasites. All parts of the body gills, may be attacked.

The causative agent is named Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. It is a spherical and large by protozoan standards, measuring up to 1mm in diameter. Short, hair-like processes known as cilia are spread densely over the surface. A horseshoe-shape nucleus is also present which is clearly visible under the microscope.

By the means of the cilia the parasite rotates vigorously and burrows into the surface layer (epidermis) of its host. It feeds on skin cells and surface debris. The burrowing action causes a local irritation and the epidermis grows across the parasite to enclose it, thus forming a “White Spot”

Reproduction occurs away from the host. After maturing in the skin, which takes a few days to three weeks, depending on the temperature, the parasite bores out, swims away and comes to rest on a submerged object such as a stone, or plant. Here it forms a jelly-like cyst within which a series of rapid cell divisions take place. In a few hours, several hundred daughter cells or swarmers, are produced, which break out of the cyst to find a new host. Alighting on the skin, they burrow in to recommence the life cycle. If they fail to find a host within three to four days, they perish.

Symptoms
If the protozoan is introduced into a tank containing healthy fish, little harm may occur, other than a fleeting infection with a few parasites. If however, the fishes are already weakened for some other reason, e.g. lack of oxygen, the parasite will quickly cover the whole body surface, causing irritation and opening up wounds for secondary infections. The host mobility may become affected. In sever cases, death may result.

Prevention
If white-spot appears in an otherwise healthy tank, the parasite “must” have been introduced either as an adult on a newly acquired fish, or as the cyst form on, for example new stones, a plant or even added water. The only certain method of prevention, is to quarantine all new stock, including stones, plants etc; preferably in water at a temperature of 77F. Allow one week’s quarantine.

Treatments
There are too many treatments today to recommend any specific one. Many can be bought easily at aquarium outlets.


Several very interesting points to think about.

Very easy to recognise.
Its reproduction cycle.
No host they will die.
If introduced into a healthy tank little harm may occur.
Pay attention to all tank details.
Weakened fish, and lack of oxygen can/may and will cause sever deaths. All this is usually caused by poor tank maintenance and/or incorrect and faulty equipment.
Prevention is the best cure
A Parasite “must” be introduced into the tank.

This information was collected from Fresh Water Tropical Fish
Compiled by Keith
********************************************************************************************************************
TREATING A TANK and Scaleless fish

Clown Loaches and other scaleless fish require a special White Spot cure. I have seen it said that this is not so just use any WS cure at half strength and that will do. That is totally wrong even at that strength it will become dangerous.

Only use the "CORRECT" WS cure and only use it at the correct dosage as per instruction on the bottle. Also check the UBD "Expire Date" to be on the safe side.

Melafix can be used in conjunction with the WS cure it will not cure it at all but it will reduce the stress on the fish.

Now for the treatment.
Only used the prescribed amount and times recommended.
Remove any carbon filters if you are using them.
Add extra air this is beneficial to the tank as well.
Bump up the temp slowly. By doing this it speeds up the growth rate of the Ich and this kills it quicker.
Turn of the lights if you have a fully planted tank this will not hurt for a few days at all.
Reduce the feeding by 50% they wont feel like eating any way and you could easily have other problem with the uneaten food. I would feed them with small amounts of "Frozen Blood Worms" at least 3 time a week this will keep their strength up remember a healthy fish will survive the Ich problem a lot easier.

Treating the Tank
You might not see any WS after a week BUT it has not all gone and by this I mean the treatment must be continued for at at least a total of 3-4 weeks. This might sound a long time but it will be worth it.

I would still carry out your weekly water changes and when you have completed the tank treatment a 50% of treated water change would help for the next two changes.

Then you can replace or add a carbon filter for at least 2 weeks and toss it out completely.

I have had WS with my CLs and they as well as all fish worth the extra time and effort in removing the Ich.

Finally take all the precautions and try not to get it again

***********************************************************************************
Calilasseia
POSTED BY Calilasseia

Posted 24-Nov-2006 01:48
The key facts to remember about White Spot (and I'm sure Keith has covered these, but I'll repeat them just in case) are:[1] Only one part of the life cycle of Ichthyophthirius multifiliis, the causative parasite, is susceptible to medication, which means that ...[2] Medication has to be applied even when the symptoms appear to have gone for up to 7 days afterwards, to make sure that all the susceptible stages of the parasite have been eliminated. The parasite in question has a three stage life cycle. The part that manifests itself is the trophont or feeding stage. This stage burrows through the fish's slime coat, attaches itself to the outer layer of tissue or epithelium, and starts feeding upon the fish. This stage is impervious to medication because it forms a protective cyst around itself. The next stage is the tomont stage. This forms when the parasite has ingested sufficient nutrients from the fish to begin reproduction. This stage is largely invisible in the aquarium, because it detaches from the fish, falls into the substrate, and remains encysted while it divides into daughter cells - something like 1,000 daughter cells for each month. Because it is encysted, it is impervious to medication again. The third stage is the larval or somite stage. Each daughter cell becomes a free swimming tonite, which is microscopic and invisible to the eye. At this point in the life cycle, the parasite is vulnerable to medication. The trouble is, of course, that the swarming termites are microscopic, and so you can't actually see them directly with the naked eye, which means you have to keep medication levels in the aquarium maintained at sufficient concentration to kill the tomites for as long as they are likely to persist. Depending upon temperature, the tomites could mutate into mature trophonts in as little as 3 days or take as long as 7 days. In an aquarium that contains solely Labyrinth Fishes, one means of dealing with the parasite is to increase the ambient aquarium temperature to 85 degrees Fahrenheit during the medication stage. This speeds up the parasite's life cycle, and ensures that the medication can destroy all the free-swimming microscopic tomites before they have a chance to attach themselves to a fish and begin the cycle anew. With NON Labyrinth Fishes, however, this could induce unwanted additional respiratory stresses - Labyrinth Fishes can cope with this because they are able to breathe atmospheric air to compensate for the lower concentration of dissolved oxygen at higher water temperatures, but fishes that rely exclusively upon gill-based respiration cannot do this. Some fishes such as Clown Loaches can be subjected to elevated temperatures as they experience these in the wild periodically, but it's not a good idea to do this with certain other fishes - Panda Corys spring to mind as one species that should NOT be subject to temperatures above 80 degrees F because they're inhabitants of cooler waters in their native Peru, and will die of heat stress if 'cooked' in this manner. So, depending upon ambient temperature, the tomites will appear in as little as 3 days, or you could be unfortunate and the tomites could take 7 days to appear. In cooler aquaria (e.g., a Panda Cory aquarium kept at 72 degrees F) you could be required to maintain medication for up to 14 days. If the fishes can be moved to a hospital tank for treatment, and medicated there, this is preferable because you don't have to subject your main aquarium's biological filter to adverse effects from the medication - you can just destroy the parasites there. Removing the fishes from the main aquarium also has the advantage that any free swimming tomites that arise in the main aquarium are left with no hosts to attach to, and thus starve to death. So, at the end of your medication period in the hospital aquarium, you are free to return the fishes to the main aquarium. Of course, your problem here is that you have to remember to add a small quantity of fish food to the main aquarium as if you were still feeding fishes so that the biological filter in the main aquarium is kept ticking over whilst the fishes themselves are temporarily rehoused. Once the fishes have been removed from the main aquarium, by the way, you can speed things up visa-vis destroying remaining parasites by increasing the temperature to 105 degrees F while the fishes are absent, which will speed up the life cycle considerably, and result in the accelerated production of tomites ... which then find themselves bereft of fishes to attach to. And, they starve to death quicker at the higher temperatures, because they use up their reserves more quickly. Get yourself a cheap plastic aquarium that you're never going to use as anything BUT a hospital tank, put your fishes in that, medicate them, then whack up the main aquarium temperature to 105 degrees while the fishes are in the 'hospital'. Once the fishes are free of parasites and have remained so for 7 days, you can return the main aquarium to its normal temperature and reintroduce the now treated fishes. Any watertight container that is safe to house fishes in (i.e., it hasn't ever been used to mix weedkiller or insecticide, and doesn't leach toxic material into the water) can be pressed into service as the 'hospital' for the duration, so long as it is possible to maintain aeration and some basic filtration (e.g., sponge filter) within the container during the medication phase. Oh, and DO NOT use activated carbon filtration or ion exchange resins in the hospital aquarium because that will remove your medication! EDIT : Almost forgot. I use Protozin. Protozin is somewhat expensive, but it is claimed by the makers to be formulated so as to impact as little as possible upon filter bacteria. And, upon the occasions I have had to use it, it works well


Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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Thank you everyone who has posted information in regards to my initial posts. Sadly I was traveling when the outbreak occured and my wife did not notice it and therefore it went nearly two weeks untreated before I saw it and began medicating. Within the last week I have lost 9 of 10 fish and the 10th is infected with Ich and appears to be weakening. I treated the tank with Maracide (contains malachite green and chitosan)using the recommended treatment amounts and removed my active carbon. My readings throughout the whole treatment have been as follows:
Nitrate : 0
Nitrite : 0
PH : 7
KH : 120
GH : 120
These were normal readings for me and the fish seemed comfortable for the last year in this range.

Regarding my filter I have a Whisper 30 gallon filter which has an Bio filter and another filter with activated carbon. The Bio filter was what had the brownish residue (not sludge as I originally reported). The residue is good bacteria, but I guess it had cycled and some of it had fallen off. When treatment concludes or my last fish passes I will be introducing treatments of good bacteria back to the water to restore the filter. Everything seems in good order except for the fish as my plants are doing well and I even have some slight green algae (not brown) growing since my BN passed earlier this week.

Tell me if this is correct as I am nearly certain my last fish will pass in the next day or so. I now plan on letting the tank go without fish for at least 5 days in order to kill off any leftover Ich (w/o further medicating)and then preform a thorough cleaning, restore active carbon to the filtration and then introduce new fish.

Thanks,
Chris

Now you have to treat the tank.
It certainly help having no host fish in the tank.
This might seem the long way around but I would consider it very strongly.

I would completely strip the tank wash all the substrate in HOT water this will kill any remaining Ich.
Wash and clean the filters.
Then recycle the tank I prefer the live fish method using Zebra Danios.
Also add a double dose of a goood bacteria starter such as Seachem Stability for the first week then as per instructions.

Now how did the Ich get into the tank if it did not come via a plant or a fish it came via the water change (like my area in the colder months)
For this reason I would store the water for at least 1 week before introducing it to the tank.
I take my water directly from the HOT how water service (it is not a storage unit)
As I stated this is going to be the long way around but certainly the safest way.
I do not run Carbon at all and neverr have as it can cause a lot of problems.
I hope this helps you and does not turn you off looking after fish again.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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Keith,

Thanks for the reply and I have been considering to what extreme I want to "clean" the tank and by the way I netted the final casualty out of the tank this morning.

I can only think that the source would have been the BN I added to the tank back in June or a water change.

My substrate is small round gravel and I have 4 live amazon swords in the tank. Should I let the tank go the recommended 4 days before I begin the destruction? When I clean the gravel should I just rinse it with hot water and let it dry outside in order to kill anything alive on it, should I rinse it and treat with chemicals or should I just consider replacing it? Should I get rid of my plants - if so their just swords - nothing special here as I can get more? Lastly, since I will be recycling the tank I will be doing a thorough cleaning of the filter box and tubing and in doing so should I replace the Bio filter sponge?

Thanks again,
Chris

Hi,
Take a minute or two and read through the life cycle of
that parasite. Without any hosts to feed off of, the
parasite will die off naturally. The thing is that you
have to give it time for those that are free swimming
to not find a host and die, AND, you have to give it time
for the encysted ones to mature and become free swimming
look for and not find a host and die off.

I don't think you have to do anything except raise the
temperature of the tank to 78 or so, and then just do
normal tank maintenance for a while. To be safe, I'd
probably leave the tank empty of any fish for a month.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

If the tank is in good order and the plants are healthy I would just do a good gravel cleaning no way toss the plants out. I would only do a full strip down if the tank is old and requires a full cleaning.
As Frank mentioned raise the temp this will speed up the life cycle and get rid of them for good. With no hosts you will not require chemicals at all.
I also fully agree with Frank I would wait one month and then only introduce the fish only a few at a time.
Ich can be a stinker its a matter of prevention and hope it does not get into the tank.
With no fish in the tank I would add a little live bacteria each week to the bacteria alive in the filter.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW