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Okay my 40 gal tall is empty, except for one adult male angel, pond snails, and a few MTS. We made a quick jaunt to LFS and got 6 Emperor Tetras, and 3 plecs. Everyone's about 1-3 inches. I realize depending on the species, the plecs will get too big for the tank. (This is my husbands effort to make me cave for the 75-100 gal he wants so badly. He thinks that I don't know, but I know. )

I lost one Emperor the following day. He was swimming about fine but we noticed his eyes where cloudy. That afternoon, I found him dead at the front bottom of the tank. Today, I noticed a second Emperor, swimming about apart from the group, and one of it's eyes is getting cloudy. How do I treat this before everyone is face down in the tank?

I called the LFS and explained what is happening and what's in the tank. The answer I got was, "Add a tablespoon of table salt and the bottle recommended amount of coppersafe to the tank and it should clear right up. I explained again that I have snails that I DON'T want to kill, and was told the snails would be fine.

1. Can plecs tolerate salt?
2 Does any one recognize this issue and can give a better remedy?
3 Could this be parasites and not disease?


TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Sorry, I forgot to post the parameters:
PH 7.6
Ammonia 0
NitrAte between 0 and 5
NitrIte 0

I took it out and put it into a cup. I added a pinch of salt. Praying this works, or at least buys some time. I've got to go pick up the kids.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Hi Kelly,
According to the charts, it is probably a bacterial
infection.

http://animal-world.com/encyclo/fresh/information/Diseases.htm#Diagnostic

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Well the Emperor didn't make it. I'm going to go to a Chain Store to pick up some anti-bacterial meds. Are there any in particular that I should avoid for the plec?. I would prefer to treat the whole tank. I just read an article on Plecoplanet on how to treat ich. So I plan to bump up the temp a bit and add salt. I'll treat for ich and bacterial infection. (I saw a white spot on top of one of the plecs just now.) Wish me luck!

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

The only times I've had cloudy eye it went away on its own with water changes. Cloudy eye, if I'm not mistaken, is a symptom of deteriorating water quality, but I'm not great with diseases.

And no, for the most part, catfishes do not tolerate salt.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

I lost 1 plec during the night, another this morning before I got the kids off to school. I added one Tablespoon per gallon before I left for work and bumped up the temp 2 degrees to 78.

I purchased API T.C. Tetracycline after work. Found another Emperor dead. (seems to be the larger ones are dieing first) Noticed a red swollen hump with spots on another one. I just dosed with 4 packets and raised the temp again. My husband says to not dose for ich. (Afraid we might be overdosing or cross dosing)

Starting to think this tank is cursed. It's the tank of DooM!

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Kellyjhw

There are a few things that concern me and they are.

How old is the tank?
When and how did clean the filter and gravel last?
Water changes, the percentage you replace and how often?

By adding all those fish at once "should" not have much of an effect on your filtration unless it was being pushed to its maxium or it required a good maintenance cleaning.

If it is a bacterial problem caused by the filter or a introduced fish/s and then you started adding a Antibacterial medication, depending on the medication and the quantity used it could be doing more damage to the good bacteria in your tank.

With the meds you are using plus the salt it is possible what you have created is far worse than the original problem.

By the time you read this it is possible that your tank is now completely empty or very close to it.

Personally I think you might have to make a big decision of what to do
That might involve a complete tank strip down either boil or replace all your substrate (it will be easier to buy new substrate.

Completely pull the filter down and clean it completely and then replace all the filter material.

Finally go through a new cycling process.

I fully know that is the drastic way but when the tank is established you will have a perfectly safe disease free tank.


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Keith


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
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The tank was quick started around May 26 of this year. I used water from my 55 gal, and a sponge out of the filter. I tested for 2 1/2 weeks before I added 2 adult breeding angels. The parameters have been constant. I get a lowering of the PH when I don't top off. Around the end of October, we tried adding a few mollies. They died rather quickly. (within 2 weeks) Then my female died. I think she had attacked the last mollie during the night, and was infected. (She was mean as ... when she was fat with eggs) She died the evening we found the mollie dead.

I can't tell for sure but, I think, the tank was infected either with parasites or bacteria by the plants or driftwood. Is that possible? I boiled the driftwood for hours, but maybe there was something deeper. The plants were rinsed off and most of the potting wool pulled from the roots. The wool that I couldn't get out of the roots, I rinsed in tap water.

At this point, my husband and I agree, if the tank dies out, we will strip it down and sterilize it.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

It's not from the driftwood if you boiled it. If the plants weren't kept with fish, it's fairly unlike they came with a fish disease.

--------------------------------------------
The aquarist is one who must learn the ways of the biologist, the chemist, and the veterinarian.

Yes, at both stores that I purchased from they were in tanks with fish.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Kellyjhw

Lets assume its a water problem (never assume any thing especially with fish tanks)

Where does your water come from?
Is it town supply, or a home bore?

Have you tested the supply water just in case that is the source of your problem.

You have not answered the questions about your water and filter.
Regarding the filter what type and size is it?

Going by what you are saying it looks you have had a ongoing problem since you started that tank.

Substrate when and how was it cleaned deep vac etc.

Sorry for so many questions but its looks like the only way to solve your problem.

You mentioned you have snails is it possible there is/was a dead one/or more in the substrate?


Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Okay, here we go.
The filter is a Whisper 40 gal undergravel that has been converted to a HOB. The water is from the Detroit River and treated by the City. We have great tasting water! But seriously, I know the PH is 7.6 out the tap. I've never tested it over night. I'll run the tests straight out the tap after this post. I'll also test it over night and post that tomorrow.

The tank has actually been chugging alone fine for the first 6 months. Everything was fine, until we got the "bright idea" let's add mollies. Then everything went to hell in a hand basket! My husband is convinced the mollies were badly diseased. After discussing my theory with him, he convinced my theory was flawed. The problems didn't start until the mollies in October. I was doing a gravel vac every week, but after every one but Bulldozer died in the tank, I started vaccing every other week. I don't have any large snails, all of them are under 1 cm.

I don't mind the questions. The more asked; the more uncovered!

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

I dont know what your problem actually is, but I do agree that if all passes, stripping it down would be best.

I'd also like to add that getting a small qt tank would be a good idea. Read the faq's on quarantening fish. A 10 gal would work. set it up, cycle it, then add a betta or paradise fish, till its time to qt new fishies. It really saves alot of frustration later.

Good luck.

Kellyjhw

The filter is a Whisper 40 gal undergravel that has been converted to a HOB.

I am very pleased that you do not mind me asking all these questions?

When did you stop using the UGF? My reason for asking is that there could easily be a lot of muck under the plastic filters (for a better word) UGFs are fantastic filters as long as they are maintained and working properly.

If the old plastic filters are still there I would seriously consider pulling the tank down.

More question re HOB
How often and how do you clean the HOB plus when did you replace any of the filter material?
I do not know that filter is it big enough or a size bigger for your tank?

I have filter wool in my HOB and about every 2nd week I remove a small amount of the old filter wool and replace it with new clean filter wool, by doing that I will never go through a Mini cycle of having a dirty filter.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

I actually have 2 filters. The larger is the Whisper 40. I never used it as a UGF. The guy that I got it from gave me all the pieces, but I'm not familiar/comfortable with UGF. I just never put the undergravel tray in the tank when I set it up. Since I have the flourite and driftwood the water was a tea colored. Also because of the snails, I rubber band filter wool to the intake. I've put the piece of sponge from the 55 in the 40gal to "jump start" the cycle. I squeeze it out in tank water whenever I do a water change. The actual filter media is a all in one packet. I replace that every 2-1/2 months depending on how much gunk is in there. To tell you the truth, it's usually not much. But I don't want my hubby griping over it, so I change the media packet anyway.

The second filter is smaller. It's a Whisper Reptofilter for up to 20 gal (90gph). We hung it as high as we can, which is just below the rim. I didn't change this all in one packet until after the mollies died.

If you look at the pics in photo booth, you'll see HOB has extention tubes that reach almost to the bottom. The intake for the Reptofilter is in the opposite side up top. I also have a huge bubbler in the middle of the tank. So there's lots of movement and airation(SP?) in the tank.

Sorry about not posting the tap parameters. The kids distracted me and I totally forgot to do it.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

okay out the tap
PH 7.6
Ammonia 0
NitrAte 5
NitrIte 0


TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

Kellyjhw

The actual filter media is a all in one packet. I replace that every 2-1/2 months depending on how much gunk is in there. To tell you the truth, it's usually not much. But I don't want my hubby griping over it, so I change the media packet anyway.

I hope I have found some thing here.

With the filter media do you change 100% of it every time?
If so we have one problem solved.
Because you replace 100% you have removed all your good bacterial and now another cycle starts.

The second filter is smaller. It's a Whisper Reptofilter for up to 20 gal (90gph). We hung it as high as we can, which is just below the rim. I didn't change this all in one packet until after the mollies died.

Did you exactly the same thing there re filter media?
Did you change them both at the same time? If so a double cycle change.

This is the reason I removed the sponge filter and replaced it with the filter wool and I replace a very small piece at a time.


Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith


Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Nope, I paid attention to all the previous posts and advice given. I NEVER change both filters at the same time. The Whisper 40 gal has a separate sponge in it(that I cut away from the 55 gal sponges), in addition to the all in one packet. I squeeze the sponge in wc water, but I don't squeeze it when I change the packet out. I try to keep bacteria in at least that filter at all times. The reptofilter is the only one I can't get a piece of sponge into. I think I will try the media floss in the repto after I finish treating the tank and get the meds out of the water. I don't think it would make sense to do it now.

Would there be a problem if I start to treat for ich, before I clean out the tetracycline? Or should I wait until after I've done 25% daily water changes (5 days) to get the tetracycline out?

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}

To be honest I would have no idea about that.

I did a Google on "tetracycline" That is a very potent medicine. That could even kill all the good bacteria in your tank.

Personally I would cut my losses strip that tank down and start afresh. I would even buy new substrate, then try to sterilize every thing else by doing that you would have distanced you tank from what ever it is.

I think I have covered every thing that could be causing your tank problems. Its hard to say but I think at this point you are just throwing your money away trying to cure a tank possibly with multiple problems.

Have a look in [link=My Profile] http://www.fishprofiles.com/forums/member.aspx?id=1935[/link] for my tank info
Look here for my
Betta 11Gal Desktop & Placidity 5ft Community Tank Photos

Keith



Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

Well, I still have one Angel, 2 Emperor tetras, and one plec still swimming. I've seen a marked improvement in the Bulldozer's behavior. The belly of the Plec is showing he's eating. The Emperor's are zipping about. So, the treatment has worked. I'll be starting the water changes. NO NEW FISH to this tank.

TTFN --->Ta-Ta-For-Now
Kelly ;o}