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A company you had?


Well, I suppose there is nothing you can do, maybe suggest this site? You never know...

Fish are in the same position other animals are. There will always be people that don't think of them as having "needs".

You know the whole "It's just an animal, who cares" type of mentality.

Were still having a hard enough problem with getting people to treat their cats and dogs in a nice manner, let alone acknowledging that fish are more then just "pretty things" to look at. Even the idea of a fish as a "pet" in pure non-sense to many.

But, for all the people who don't listen, there are people who do listen, and we conjugate in places just like this =p

I have seen some horrible fish keeping conditions at some places for example I went to a grocery store that sold fish and every tank was brown and covered in algae. I only by fish from my lfs (aquarium adventure) because they almost always have great fish in good conditions. However when I saw that massive pleco in that tiny tank I second guessed my decesion to buy from there. I think store owners should relize that better quality=repeat customers.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

Nice approach, and my preferred choice, leading by example rules.

I forgot to mention try that first , I do have a tendancy to get heavy handed, but then Ive met a lot of scumbags along the way.

MAG,
another idea, why not print this whole thread up, print up a copy of the Kribs beginners faq on the nitrogen cycle,
and a copy of a picture of bruce the goldfish, and then
hand the works to her. That should at least wake her up.
I recently did that with a local store that believes dying fish isnt cruel. I printed up some information, very graphic and detailed, and when I was in browsing, just left it on there counter.
2 weeks later I go in and there were no more dyed fish, and they had a sticker on the door and window that they are now a member of the coalition against the dying of fish!
Amazing how you can easily convince people of things by suggesting, rather than pushing!



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Places that keep fish really badly, especially shops , can be forced to change by law on some occasions, and with the help of animal charities. Sometimes the lack of legal clarity about fishkeeping principles make it difficult to do anything about, but then with the big pet superstores theres other ways you can get em.

A lot of fish stockists do take the urine with the local authorities, and get away with it for years, but the nice thing is a lot of these shops also carry reptiles, a lot of which have VERY clear keeping perameters, even in petshop situations, and a lot of them have cites appendix listings. So when they screw up the reptiles you can get them easy.

A pet superstore local to me was treating animals really badly for over 5 years and it was really starting to annoy me.The advice they gave was criminal, the fish ritually died of fungal infections in the thousands and the cages for the reptiles were death traps, and then one day they got in a box turtle and some uromastyx lizards with a decent cites rating (appendix II or above) and I went in took dated digital photos discreetly, wrote a submission of my observations over the last year with evidence and clearly stated correct keeping protocols that even an idiot could understand to the RSPCA, (bearing that id worked regularly with the local regional head of the rspca.) They got investigated and searched. I had formal qualifications in herpetology and animal care , and was actively working in rescue at the time.

12 weeks later, no shop.


Dont ever think theres nothing you can do. Just get hold of a sympathetic vet, an animal care authority, someone with qualifications who can help or has contacts. If its really bad ,go straight for the law.

A shop willing to change and improve will keep trading, bad ones will not be permitted.Even if your local authorities are not willing to help there are institutions that do care, and can quite simply damage their reputation if they dont act. Its amazing how quickly authorities can move under that kind of threat. Most cases that are corporate animal abusers only fail through lack of evidence, or people not reporting them. Dont assume that others will report it if you dont, and if you can, get evidence. No shop is too big, no company above reproach.


Im not saying you should hassle a shop for every mistake they make, or minor problems that most shops experience, crying wolf is a bad idea,but some shops are animal killing factories. If its that bad, do em!Report them to animal authorities at the very least. If the complaints rack up, eventually something will be done.



Last edited by longhairedgit at 02-Dec-2005 01:01

Hey thanks for starting a new rant thread. I was due for a good one!

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~~~ My fish blow kisses at me all day long ~~~

OMG, a lot of lfs's keep too many fish in too small tanks and tell you it's ok! Then the kids are crying because the fish died and we go back and then are told, oh YOU can't do that only we know how. Yeah, daily replacement. We were also told we could only keep a gold fish in a 2g. YIKES! After some reading I really felt like chewing someones butt out!
Hey thanks for starting a new rant thread. I was due for a good one!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

My lfs doesnt help the tank size cause as they have a large 12-14" rare expensive 350$$$ US pleco in a 10 gallon with some tetras. I think it might have been an L 099 but just guessing on that.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

I agree. I started out "stuck on stupid" too, but I quickly learned after many fish deaths what was wrong, but I wanted to know...I cared. Some people just don't want to learn and just don't care. Regardles of whether their fish do well or not, for whatever reason, they just don't give a rat's butt.

I have a co-worker that keeps putting all these different combos of fish along with a common pleco (always got to be a common pleco, that's all Wal-Mart sells ) in a TEN gallon tank!! I must have told him a million times why his fish and pleco keep dying, but he refuses to acknowledge that he's doing anything wrong, and he keeps doing what he's doing--re-stocking that 10 every time he has fish funerals. Half his problem could be remedied by changing where he buys fish, but he also only changes the water once in a long while (the pleco is a cleaner after all ) and he will not learn.....he refuses.

Chalk them up to chronically "stuck on stupid" morons and never talk fish with them again, it will be too frustrating and heartbreaking to you.

Last edited by crazyred at 29-Nov-2005 15:46

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~~Melissa~~
"Beauty is in the eye of the beer holder."

Really alot of the issues people have are from bad advice from others. The fact that people think bettas can live off plant roots and be healthy is one. When I first started I didnt know what a cycle was, didnt do water changes, didnt clean the filter and did water changes with room temperature water. I finally got corrected on these errors by lfs employees and this site. I would recomend them this site and other sites to help them.

"A noble spirit embiggens the smallest man" Simpsons

So many people just buy a fish tank, throw in some fish and that's it, that's all they really want. They don't want to know their fish may be suffering from lack of care, they just want to have fish. The people here at FP obviously care about their fishy friends and want them to have the best conditions possible. I was a betta in a bowl person, but quickly have become an actual hobbyist who enjoys seeing that my fish have what they need to do more than just survive. My betta will be moving into his new heated 10g tank with some other fish that have been chosen with care. I have not taken offence to your betta in a bowl comment as it is very appropraite to the mindset of many when they first get fish, look at all the goldfish in bowls out there (shudder). Sure they survive, just survive not thrive.

Education is the key, the more people know, they more they care.
Now I'm sorry for my little rant and goldfish keepers, sorry too!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

i dont think i have chance in the world to get her to understand anything. i tried to explain to her why her fish got sick after every water change (5.0 ph, 7.5 tap water ph ect)the fish survive since ammonia isnt dangerous at 5.0 ph but ugh.Its absolutely not healthy for the fish.its sorta like trying to stop someone from putting betta in a bowl. yes it will live but it is pretty cruel to make them live in those conditions.Will it how it best color, no .Will it show its personlity, no. its kind of like if you shoved a human into a 4 by 4 cell with crummy food and having him swim in his own crap. will he live to be a happy, healthy developeed human beeing? no. im not putting human and fish on the same level but still as the superoir species its our responsibilities to take care of the animals we take into our homes .there that felt much better. ranting is better than a punching bag for venting what frustrates you .

P.S sorry betta in a bowl people for bursting your bubble
p.p.s. sorry for ranting

In nature the pleco only eats algae and never get as much as it can eat. When you feed your pleco with industrially manufactured food you change its physical properties and it is therefore growing faster and larger than it would do in nature.














No, I do not think I am right in that statement, but this might be what someone else have told the person in question and people (at least I know it´s true for me) tend to believe more in the version they heard first.

And you must admit that it sounds quite probable if you imagine hearing it without previous knowledge of the matter.

So the only thing you can do is to point out what you think s wrong with the tank and hope that enough others do the same so that it will eventually sink in. After all the fish have survived for quite a while in that maintenance routine and for an untrained eye they probably look healthy.

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So here I am once more...

Sounds like they have no idea of what it is all about and could not care less of your opinion.

Over the period of time this person has possibly been told the same thing and could not care less.

May be a cheap booklet or some of those free booklets that you see at LFS just might help.

If this person is a senior of above you have no hope in the world in helping.

Sorry

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Keith

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hey.
today i was incredibly frustrated at a company we had. they have a 10 gllon tank with 2 large comets and a common pleco. its been 5 years and the fish hve not outgrown a 10g which mean s they are incrediby stunted and im urprised they mde it this far. i tried to explain the basic (old tank syndrome,ph swings killing fish ect)becuse this person does water change every 6 MONTHS!!!i could not believe it. what should i tell these people. its prreetty frustrating to hear them say water changes kil fish nd tht they know that their fish are healthy ect ect. she doesnt even feed her pleco for goodness's sake. sorry about the ranting.i told her that her fish are very stunted and she took t as an insult i think.she didnt believe me that a common plec grew over 2'' in 3 month in on of my tanks with good feeding and water quality. what do we do with these people that dont understand a thing we tell them ?they act like i have no idea what im talking about and thats probably the most frustrting of all. thanks for reding this far.

There's another thread in General Freshwater--Overstocked, Overfed--for more horrendous tank conditions. Sure is sad that people take on the hobby knowing absolutely nothing about fish-keeping.

I made lots of mistakes when I knew no better (goldfish in a small tank, either no water change or when they happened, 100% water change with no water conditioner used) My poor goldfish died, so I found out why & hope that I now give my fish a good, safe & healthy environment.

It's hard to get some people to listen, yet others are receptive and want to learn. Out of the small circle of people around my life, the only none I'm having success with is hubby.

My sister thinks it's fine to put a batch of guppy's in a small outside, unfiltered, unheated water feature. Don't mistake this with a pond - it's quite tiny. Our summers here can be very hot - so not a problem with no heaters then. But come winter & she wondered why they all promptly died. I explained they need (not only clean filtered water) but heating. So is it her plan to heat the water? No, it is not. Each summer, she will buy a fresh batch of guppys, because they are cheap & they are just fish after all. I had some guppy fry, which I would have given her if she was prepared, at the minimum, to take them inside the house when the weather cools & put them in a heated & filtered tank. She's not - so she won't be getting any of my baby fish.

Another friend had a fish death in his son's small tank, in which there were never any water changes happening. I explained the basics, including that you never change 100%, but a max of 50% weekly. So they do the water change & I cringe as they tell me their fish wasn't too happy about being put in the kitchen sink to swim around while they completely cleaned out the tank. I hate to think of the residue of soap & chemicals that may have been in that kitchen sink. I really didn't want to hear anymore.

Good luck trying to help her out, but it seems to me that you may not win this battle.

Cheers
TW

TankWatcher, You're right. This lady won't make any changes. She told me they are "just fish" and that she gives advice but doesn't take it! I'll continue to clean the tanks weekly and sneak in a few extra visits here and there. That's the best I can do. Those fish are barely surviving, let alone thriving.