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Robyn,

Not having a Diffuser myself (yet) I can only reply to your last question, regarding the position: Sure you can hide it behind pants, but you should have some current above the diffuser so that the bubbles are washed around in the tank. If they simply float to the top they wouldn't be as efficient.

Getting a platic one doesn't seem like a bad idea, even if it should be only to bridge the time until the real deal is becoming available in Oz land. I wonder why it is that you don't have glass diffusers available down there. Not big enough of a market?

And no - that company is not Armani, it is Dolce and Cabbana (sorry, couldn't help it).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi LF

Thanks for the input. Sorry, not up on all the brand names (for fish or fashion either, it seems)

Re: C02, we don't have much choice here and what we have is ridiculously expensive. Example, Bensaf said I should be able to get a glass diffuser for US$15. It will cost AU$54. That equals around US$39, so quite a bit dearer. If you know of any good US websites that supply to international customers, can you pls let me know. The only one I've found so far is http://www.customaquatic.com If I go ahead with this, I'm ordering my regulator from US. Conversion & postage included - still a lot cheaper. Paulus gave me a site that came close - but still dearer & the US one included a bubble counter.

Sure you can hide it behind pants, but you should have some current above the diffuser so that the bubbles are washed around in the tank. If they simply float to the top they wouldn't be as efficient.

Where I'm planning to put it is in the back right hand corner. It will be underneath the return water pipe, which is very forceful. It should pound down on the C02 - so is that a good thing?

Not having a Diffuser myself (yet)

. I thought that a diffuser was required. Isn't it really necessary, after all?

Cheers
TW

It should pound down on the C02 - so is that a good thing?

Yes, that is a good thing. This way the bubbles stay below the surface much longer and the water will receive a higher saturation with CO2 (just ask luvmykrib, as I forgot to mention this to her, she is mad at me for this ).

Some form of diffusion is required to create small bubbles. I have what is called a reactor (but I may switch to a diffuser sometime). The reactor has a CO2 hose attached and a small pump. Water from the tank is pumped into a cylinder which also gets the CO2. Then it is mixed up in there and has to escape through a foam at the bottom. This assures small bubbles. Just take a look at one of the fist pages in my log to see a picture of the reactor.

Ingo

PS: I will keep an eye open for sites that may export.

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have what is called a reactor (but I may switch to a diffuser sometime)

Is this because a diffuser is better than a reactor in your opinion?

Cheers
TW

Is this because a diffuser is better than a reactor in your opinion?

That is at least what the other plant (fill in your choice of title here) here at FP indicate. NowherMan6 is a convert from the same type of Reactor that I am running, tetratech comes from another setup, and bensaf, well, he is bensaf.

I don't think I have any major issues with my reactor, but a change is worth a try. If I do it then it will be an experiment and I always will leave the door open to go back. The reactor has non-CO2 related downsides:

It is large
It is not all that pretty
It needs electricity for the pump

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'm particularly looking for one without a powerpoint requirement. I'm getting into a little trouble here about my powerpoints and electricity consumption for my tanks.

Cheers
TW

Just one little nit here:

Having made the switch to a glass diffuser myself, I have one minor disagreement with LF on the efficiency of the glass diffuser. I don't think it's so much that the bubbles never reach the surface that's important, it's the size of the original bubbles that matters most. You want those bubbles to come out as small as possible so ensure better absorbtion into the water. That's why it's important to keep the membrane clean, every two weeks. If it gets clogged with gunk the bubbles will come out bigger, if every pore of the disk is kept clean the bubbles will come out quite small.

I have to say, the efficiency of these things is amazing. I've had fantastic saturation using this diffusor, and the bubbles of mine go straight up to the surface, or get trapped by the plants when they grow high enough.

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Back in the saddle!

I have one minor disagreement with LF on the efficiency of the glass diffuser

I was not disputing the efficiency of a glass diffuser, but I am not convinced that it is better than the reactor. My bubbles are tiny as well and (at least from measuring with the kits) give me the results I anticipated. I guess only testing out a diffuser will give me the answer if they are better or just equal

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Speaking of keeping these things clean... What do you guys do to yours to keep it open?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Speaking of keeping these things clean... What do you guys do to yours to keep it open?

I swear this is the last time I'll answer this question

Every 2 weeks (don't wait for it to clog) soak in a 50% bleach solution for 10 minutes. Remove rinse and soak for another ten minutes in some clean water with some de-chlor. Put back in tank. Very simple and easy.

This will keep the ceramic plate clean and free of algae.

For plastic diffuser the ceramic plate can be removed seperately, for the glass ones just pop the whole unit in the bleach solution.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ahh very cool! Wont ask again Sir!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Update on my investigations since last post. A bit of a hiccup on ordering the US regulator/solenoid. Didn't realise US has 115 volts & Oz has 240V. I have to investigate if the cost of a transformer wipes out the savings of the US purchase. No problems just with a regulator - just the items that require power.

Next hiccup is the size of the BOC gas bottle I want to rent. It's big & doesn't fit in your average cabinet & here is my hubby's suggestion of where to put it (he doesn't want it in the house).

Tank cabinet shares a common wall with the garage. He wants the gas bottle in the garage, with a hole in the wall (properly sealed so creepy crawlies can't get in). The C02 tubing comes in through the hole in the wall & into the tank. I'm assuming (or hoping) that the bubble counter sits in the garage with the tank & regulator all in the garage.

I hoping all the planted tank guys can tell me if that will work. Is there any reason why it wouldn't work if the tank was in a different room to the gas bottle. I know its probably not ideal, but would it work - it may be my only chance. Look forward to hearing your advice.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I don't envy you for the troubles you have to go through just to get CO2 in your tank . You are truely a commited hobbyist .

I would say that the only problem I can see would be cold temperatures in your garage, below freezing, and probably it would have to be cold for a while. Then, the water in the bubble counter and the hose (yes, when the unit turns off there may be some backwash from the tank into the hose) could freeze.

But I think you don't even own a winter coat, right?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

I was just chatting with my wife regarding your CO2 issues Down Under. This reminded me of another potential issue that you may face when buying US equipment.

Threading - by this I mean the threads of the bottle vs. the regulator. Are't you guys using a metric system? I have no idea but you may want to check into it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo,

It is the ridulous cost of C02 here in Oz that has caused me such work. I have the stubbornness of a marathon runner (my other hobby) & I do not want to give up. Another hurdle to overcome is my hubby, who thinks I have gone a little crazy & overboard to be even considering this.

I do not think I have a chance of being allowed to put the gas bottle in the house, unless I buy one of the smaller bottles from the LFS, but too expensive here & I definitely cannot buy an overseas one. Overseas gas bottles are illegal to be filled in Oz, so that is out.

Temperature ranges here in Sydney for the coldest part of winter are average min 47F to av. max of 63F. so, we get cold, but nothing would really freeze. There would not be much tubing in the garage anyway. The bottle would be hard up against the wall, so the tube would only have a few inches at most to travel before it passed through the wall & into the house. If you still think the temp would be a problem, I could get some flux, or whatever it is that plumbers use to insulate hot water pipes, and wrap it around the tubing. Would that make it too hot in summer though? I could always make that a seasonal thing & take my tubings winter woollies off in summer time.

PS I do have a winter coat & an electric blanket, but no heater (unless you count the fishies heater).

Threading - by this I mean the threads of the bottle vs. the regulator. Are't you guys using a metric system? I have no idea but you may want to check into it.

Already factored that in (think it was mentioned a page ago, probably while you were at the BIG TANK. The US product I wanted to buy is a regulator, solenoid & bubble counter combined. I factored in the cost of the US product, the conversion to AU$, the postage, the cost of a thread converter which our gas supplier said converts all US thread to Oz thread (it's made by BOC especially so that US regulators fit on Oz gass bottles) and I was still way in front for the cost of an Oz regulator all on it's own. The voltage thing is the issue now. Depending on the amps the appliance uses, the cost of a transformer to allow US voltage to work here increases. If the solenoid is 1 amp or less, the transformer is $60. That probably puts me at break even point for the Oz product that doesn't include a solenoid or bubble counter. But if the US product uses more than 1 amp, the cost of the transformer jumps dramatically, so I've asked the US supplier for the info and will have to see if it works out or not.

So, back to the issue of putting the gas bottle in the garage. Bensaf, Wings, Ingo or any other planted tank expert - how would this work. To recap - hubby won't let me have bottle in rumpus room, as it won't fit in cabinent. Wall behind my tank is the same wall as to the garage (ie rumpus room & garage share a common wall). The garage is joined onto the house (you know, it the type where you have internal access straight from your garage into your house). Suggestion is that gas bottle, regulator & bubble counter are in garage, hole in wall (properly sealed for creepy crawlies, etc) tubing passes through wall & into tank. It's about my only hope, as at this stage, can't afford my own small gas bottle & have to rent bottle from BOC.
I'd really appreciate your thoughts as to whether would work or not.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I wouldn't know why this should not work. The pressure coming from the bottle should be strong enough for an extended hose. There are quite a few people that use one bottle and a splitter to "feed" multiple tanks. They too have pretty long lines.

I would suggest you are 100% certain that the tubing is CO2 proof. It would be a bummer if it starts leaking within the wall part. Also, the sealant that you may use should not corrode the tubing and it shouldn't harden out either. This way you can remove the tubing much easier, if need be.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

PS: When are you wearing a winter coat? Also, I think it would be worthwile creating a website for "neglected spouses of tank keepers so they can complain about the crazy things we do for our obsession . I am sure my wife would join your husband.

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I would suggest you are 100% certain that the tubing is CO2 proof. It would be a bummer if it starts leaking within the wall part. Also, the sealant that you may use should not corrode the tubing and it shouldn't harden out either. This way you can remove the tubing much easier, if need be.

The idea here is to have one of the plastic covers that are used for tv antenna outlets or power point outlets (I guess you have similar over there). There would be a hole, the appropriate size for the CO2 safe tubing & a washer sealing it in place (do you know what I mean - not really sure what these plastic power/antenna cover thingys are called). So, there wouldn't be any sealant to harden. The seal will be an appropriately sized washer.

PS: When are you wearing a winter coat?

As soon as it hits min 47F to av. max of 63F, the winter coat, thick stockings, gloves & scarves will all be out. I hate the cold (could never live where it snowed). I usually love the summer, although this Sydney summer has been too hot even for me. For once, I'm looking for it to cool down a bit. It's now autumn & today was a bit cooler (max only 85.4F).

Cheers
TW

Should work fine. You may want the bubble counter inside so you can keep an eye that the rate doesn't drop. Needle valves sometimes move them selves

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I was kind of wondering if that was the case with mine! I would set the bubles where I wanted it then come back and they would be back to slow again.... latly it has been steady though.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks guys for the comments Re: the bubble counter, if I end up with that US regulator I showed you all earlier, the bubble counter is attached, so no choice for that one but to be in the garage. If it ends up that way, the garage is so handy, I'm always in & out anyway as I keep lots of things in there, it won't be a problem to go out & check it a couple of times a night.

If I end up getting the go ahead to do this, I hope you guys won't mind giving me instructions on how to set this all up. For some reason, I thought the bubble counter had to be with the reulator & I can't picture where else to put it. I have to act knowledgeable here, so I can bluff my way to getting the OK to go ahead.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

A bubble counter counts bubbles (), that is all it does. Actually, it doesn't even do that, it makes you count them for it. As such it can be anywhere in the tubing system, either directly attached to the regulator, or at the end where the CO2 enters the tank (some reactors and diffusers also double as a counter, but they are harder to read as they are mostly hidden behind plants), or even anywhere in the middle of the hosing. For example, there are line splitters that allow you to hook up multiple tanks to one CO2 bottle - the more expensive ones have valves and bubble counters for each split hose.

Hope this explains it,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, I knew what bubble counter is, but wasn't sure if it was importantant for it only to be placed in certain spots. I have to be ready to expertly & confidently answer hubby's questions about the setup, to have a chance to get the go ahead. His theory being, I shouldn't be asking for something if I don't fully know how it's setup. Grrr - must ask him why he drives a car, but he's not a mechanic & can't even do an oil change.

Bad girl, stop muttering after all it's his idea to put it in the garage & if I get the go ahead, he'll be doing the hole in the wall etc. Just need to make him feel comfortable that I know what C02 does, that I know how to set it up and that I won't blow up the house or anything

Also, I think it would be worthwile creating a website for "neglected spouses of tank keepers so they can complain about the crazy things we do for our obsession. I am sure my wife would join your husband.

Good idea

Cheers
TW

YEAH, I HAVE C02

Today we visited LFS to get some java moss & hubby started talking to the guy about C02. He liked the small gas bottles & he liked that we could see what we were buying. He never liked the idea of me buying on-line 'cause he thought I'd end up with the wrong thing & it wouldn't work. He didn't like the big rented bottle from BOC either, 'cause it was unsightly. Before I knew it, we'd paid $644.00 for a 750g (1.6lb) gas cylinder, a regulator, bubble counter & C02 internal reactor, C02 Check Valve. All are Dupla brand. No solenoid, but I can add that later. The bottle is too small, but the next size up didn't fit in my cabinet without cutting the shelf, which hubby preferred not to do.

Later, I'm getting a glass diffusser so I can swap the reactor over when I get it.

Until I get a solenoid, I'm going to turn it on & off manually.

Bit of a problem there, because the lights are programmed to turn on at 1pm & turn off at 11pm. I'm not around at 1pm, so I'll have to turn it on at 4.30pm & I'll then turn it off at 11pm, so C02 for only 6 & 1/2 hrs daily. If I had a bigger gas bottle, I'd leave it on 24/7, but to save the extra trips to get the bottle refilled, I'll turn it off to not waste the gas. It will only be until May (I hope). I'm hoping in May, the kids will give me a solenoid valve for Mothers Day.

I'm trying to aim for 2 bps, is that right? C02 drops my pH down - right?? How long before I start to see that happening?

Anyway, I'm very excited. After 4 pages of trying to find a cheaper way - we ended up going an expensive way - but at least I have it.

Cheers
TW

Congrats on the new toy. What you are going to want to do right now is get a KH and PH test. That way you can find out how much CO2 you have in your water.

Your PH will drop but it depends on how high your KH is for how fast it will go.

Use this to find out where you are at

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I'm not around at 1pm, so I'll have to turn it on at 4.30pm & I'll then turn it off at 11pm, so C02 for only 6 & 1/2 hrs daily.

This is a very bad idea. The plants need a few hours ot get going. You need the gas on as soon as the lights come on.

Using the gas for only half the light cycle won't do much for the plants but will do great for algae.

Either leave on 24/7 or change the light timing to a time you can turn the gas on.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi Wingsdlc & Bensaf

Thanks for the replies.

This is a very bad idea. The plants need a few hours ot get going. You need the gas on as soon as the lights come on. Using the gas for only half the light cycle won't do much for the plants but will do great for algae.

I guess I expected this, which is why I mentioned my C02 timing schedule. I'll have to turn the lights on at 7am & off at 5pm, which is a shame - 'cause I won't get to see my tank with lights on much (only weekends).

I would run it 24/7 - but the bottle is very small & I thought I'd run out too quickly if I do that. Not many LFS around here fill bottles, only a few & none are close to home.

Have to get a solenoid soooon.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
As others have suggested, I would just run it 24/7.
My 5 pound bottle lasts for 6 months at slightly over one
bubble per second and the refill costs just $9 and some
change.

You don't need to go to the LFS for a refill either. Any
store that offers beer and tap supplies, or welding
supplies can refill that tank, and probably for much less
than the LFS.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

My bottle is only 1.61b, so it is a lot smaller than yours, unfortunately. I wouldn't mind a trip every 3 months, but thought this size bottle might have me running there monthly. Cost for LFS to refill this size is $12, but it's not the cost issue, it's the trip to fill it.

I'll look into getting the gas from those other sources, but my investigations thus far indicate everyone gets their gas from BOC, who won't fill gas tanks that they don't own. So each business buys it from BOC, & on sell it to everyone else, with a little extra cost to make it worth their while. I think in maybe 5 years, as C02 injection gets more common, more LFS will provide the gas. At the moment, I've only found 2 locations, that are not actually close by, but are " do able". I'll continue to look for gas from supplier types you suggest.

Considering my bottle is only 1.6lb, how long do you think it would last. My tank is 43.5G & at the moment I'm trying out 2bps. So, how long do you think it will last me? Even 2 monthly trips, would be Ok. Hoping to get a solenoid in May, anyway.

Thanks

Cheers
TW

It varies depending how much gas you put in. But generally 1lb of gas lasts about a month. Your tank should hold out for 4-6 weeks. Which will bring you to May and solenoid time

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks guys.


Cheers
TW