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Well,

I was time for another change to this tank again, I just love that I can remodel the whole tank in no time, ok - let's say 3 hours, LOL.

This time, no moss and no wood.

Here is the straight on shot:

Attached Image:

New Layout

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is an angled view that shows a little more on what is going on behind the rocks. There are only 2 plants in the tank, Java Fern Windelov and Wisteria.

Attached Image:

Angled

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a closer look at one of the two Windelov groups, attached to a rock. I don't think this one is positioned too well, but time will tell. I may wait until the Wisteria in the back is taller then it may not stick out that much anymore.

Attached Image:

Fern

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the other Fern group. That one seems placed better and I am looking forward to see it grow.

That's it for now,

What do you think?

Ingo

Attached Image:

Fern II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I like the new simple look and especially the Windelov on the rocks. You have such a busy work load ingo, as well as your family commitments, so having mostly slow growth plants will make water changes & maintenance less.

I've decided only one of my tanks will ever have fast growers, the others will all be quick & easy tanks to maintain. That way, less pressure from hubby & I currently have his support (due to winning one of our deals or bets ) so he is financing my 2 new tanks I'm planning

If during this time when your work is so intense, your tanks take less time to maintain (eg less stems to be removed, trimmed & replanted on a weekly basis) your wife may forget to ask when you are getting less or smaller tanks.

Anyway, it's good to see your posts here again.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Thanks for the comments. Yeah, I am hoping that this layout will be a little easier to maintain than the moss one (last one and a layout that I had a while back as well). The whole moss trimming is a pain in the neck as the wood has to be removed to do so. And that stirrs up all kinds of gunk, yuk.

I probably will stick to ferting the tank once a week and to bi-weekly water changes though.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I probably will stick to ferting the tank once a week and to bi-weekly water changes though

bi-weekly - I'm still doing weekly on both low maintenance tanks, but I will join you in doing weekly fert & bi-weekly water changes only. We're currently in the midst of our worst ever drought (well - worst since they started recording such things) and our dams are below 30% capacity. We have water restrictions & what not & I do feel guitly about my large water changes.

Yep, bi-weekly from now on I think (except for the C02 tank).

Cheers
TW

I actually managed to be very organized and do weekly water changes on the low tech tanks only for a brief period of time. All other times I did bi-weekly water changes and I did not notice any difference. The only time this tank sees weekly changes is when there are new fish in there for QT and that hasn't happened in quite a while.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow LF! The tank looks really nice. I have a 20 long in the basement I want to do something similar with. I was thinking hair grass. Maybe someday....



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings,

Yeah, hair grass may be nice (hell, hair would be nice too, LOL), but it is more complex to maintain than the good ole wisteria. Before I know it I may be thinking about frequent ferts, CO2, and what not. Not in the plan for this tank

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's always the case with this tank....as soon as I'm getting to like it, whammo total ingo style makeover. I'm sure I'll love this setup in a few weeks too. Nice job LF

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty,

See - the thing is that this tank is so easy to change, with its small size and such. Having hardy fish in it helps as well as they are more forgiving with such adventures. This time around I actually removed them from the tank as I knew it is going to be way too messy.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Looks like there's a new wisteria-saurus in town. LOL.
Tank looks good. Not sure about the contrast between the wisteria and the fern.


My Scapes

Thanks tetratech,

Yeah, I really come to like wisteria for its ease of maintenance and its rather fast grow as a nutrient sucker.

I am not so sure about the Windelov as well, but given that I got the plant for free (trade at the last club meeting) and given that I never had this plant before I thought I will give it a shot. It may go to a different tank (probably the 29G) if I don't like it in here anymore.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK,

I declare the experiment of having a 65W PC light over a 20G Long that I would like to treat as a low tech / low maintenance tank as over.

And I conclude that it doesn't work too well. There is just too much light and the plants almost seem to burn out. My wisteria started not doing to well, the Windelov Fern burned out completely (could have a different reason though, as the donor's plan also didn't do too well).

So, back to the old 2x20w light hood. And I added some clippings of NL Java Fern from the 40G. BTW - doesn't look all that narrow to me

Here it is now:

Attached Image:

Tank Today

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

doesn't look all that narrow to me

How narrow is it meant to be. My standard java fern is much wider.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Seems to me that you nowadays can get all kinds of Ferns, but the NL that I have in the 125G is much narrower, even after I planted some of it in the 40G it is narrower than the one that was always in there. And the NL grows taller, much taller.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Can you get your JF's to grow leaves off of leaves that look like flames?

2wpg = good
3+ = bad

I will have to keep that in mind.... I have a 20long I want to set up some day....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Not a lot has changed in the tank, the wisteria seems to finally settle in. I believe in the past it may not have done too well because of the intensity of the light and probably because I didn't have enough settled plant mass.

Here is a look at the tank today.

There are a few additions, in plant and fish. The tank functions as a QT once again and is the host of 3 (out of 4, one died within 24h) False Julii Cories, seen in the back left.

Attached Image:

Tank Today

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a closer look at them, albeit not the best. I will try to get some nicer group shots in the next few days. I had one more photo of them all together, but one of them made a weird move and swam upside-down, so it looked in the picture like he was dead.

Attached Image:

False Julii

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Another addition to the tank is a group of Nana Petites that I removed from the 125G. They were completely invisible in there for quite a while now. I actually had 5 plantlets in the large tank but only could find 4 to bring over. I may have to hunt for the other one.

Attached Image:

Nana Petite

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This is also Nana Petite and I got it during yesterday's NJAGC meeting in a swap (for part of my giant Nana Barteri). It is all on one rhizome and I didn't feel like cutting it so I parked it this way for the time being.

It is also of a much lighter green and the leaves are slightly larger. It may well be that this is one of these "false" petites that eventually will grow normal sized leaves (have you heard of them?).

Attached Image:

Nana Petite Again

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, I also moved one of the Tiger Lilly babies from the 125G over into this tank. It came loose one day and floated on the top so it was worthwhile moving it over here. I am curious to find out how it will do in these conditions.

Enough for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Baby Tiger

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What



Does this tank have a disease or why does nobody have to say anything about it?

Did it fall of your radar?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Did it fall of your radar?

Actually, yes, it did. There are lots of tanks going around, and this one has slipped off my radar.

I don't remember when it happened, but I like the all rock + wisteria combo a lot, especially since this is a Q tank as well.

Not sure why that one particular NL fern didn't grow as narrow as most, but different lighting conditions may have played a part. Maybe it was shaded in its previous position, thus grew broader leaves?

Good move moving the petites out of the 125 as well. Unless you have about 300 of them crawly along some bogwood in that 125, they're not going to make enough impact (and I don't know anyone who'd spend ~$2,100 on anubias petite nana... )

They may even get a bit lost in the 20G though.... that's what nano tanks are for!


And as for the "false petites", I had anubias nanas a loooong time ago that, in high light conditions, with no shading, and when grown with only a small bit of rhizome, grew leaves smaller than petite nana leaves. I think this was just part of the plant growing up in certain conditions. As they grew the leaves got larger and grew in more the usual nana heart shape (the small leaves looked like buttons) My guess is, some people get small pieces of nana rhizomes and see small leaves grow off of them and sell them as petite nana. A good way to tell the difference IMO is to look at the leaf shape. Petite nana leaves look EXACTLY like regular nana leaves - heart or spade shaped. These false nana leaves will be rounder, more button like.

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks NowherMan6 for re-discovering this thread

Yeah, the Nana Petites were not visible anymore since quite a while in the 125G, and I still have not found the 5th one,

The NL Java Fern was actually from my 40G and grew there closest to the light on one of the branches of the right hill. I added to that tank some NL java fern from the 125G and that one still grows narrower in the same tank, and it grows much longer. If it is the same plant then more light would mean shorter and wider leaves. I think it is a different variant, by now they have sooooo many of them. Come to think of it, it looks a little like this Phillipine Java Fern.

Thanks for the info on the false Petites. From looking at the leaf shape of the new plants, it seems like they would be false. On the other hand, the rhizome is rather long, maybe 5 inches, as both leaf areas are growing of the same rhizome (this is what holds it in place behind the rock).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Baby Tiger

They look very cute at that size. Remind me though, I am pretty sure this is the non C02 tank - but what about light. Is it high, medium or low, as I forget for the moment.

Cheers
TW

Looking at the fern again, it does look a lot like the Phillipine variety. Those "hammered out" marks on the leaves look different than my NL fern. Good call on that one LF.

It's too bad this is going to be a low tech tank. I think this is your second best hardscape (behind the 40G), and I think it would look great with glosso or hairgrass - a real amano type deal. Though I can't imagine you'd want to go through the gloso nightmare any time soon again!

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Back in the saddle!

I am pretty sure this is the non C02 tank - but what about light.

Yup - this is a non-CO2 tank with once a week (at best) the addition of 10ml of Excel, and some ferts. I just recently switched back to the old 2x20 T8 setup as the 65W unit was too intense, or at least that is what I blame for my plants not doing too well in that tank.

I think this is your second best hardscape

Oh - thank you NowherMan6

I don't think upping this tank to high tech is a great idea, too much work and my constant fiddling with this tank would not help either,

Also, new fish that come from the LFS will probably have an easier time to adjust to "normal" water conditions than to 50ppm of CO2.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

50ppm of CO2.

That's it? I think mine is around 75-80ppm....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

That's it?

Sorry Wings, I didn't know we have a competition going on as to who has the most CO2 in their tanks

But you are by far not the highest I know of. I have members in my club that run over 100ppm.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Beat this though....I only have 25-30 and no algae .

It's like the lighting wars on reef tanks. "I gots a 400w metal halide over my 2.5G tank for 160 watts per gallon."

All I have to say is that I have my corals under 2.8 watts per gallon and they are thriving, who seems smarter?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I have members in my club that run over 100ppm.

Wow thats up there. Do they have fish?

There are a lot of different things that come into play when trying to grow things. Each tank is going to be different depending on the goal.

I have found with my higher light of 5.26WPG my plants don't grow up as much. I don't remember the last time I trimed my sunset hygro.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wow thats up there. Do they have fish?

Yes Wings, they do. Funny story: one of them told me recently that they introduced a fish too fast and it had a really rough time to adjust, but eventually did. It first behaved as if put into poison, jerking around like mad.

Anyway,

Not so good things to report about the fishies.

Here is a full tank shot:

Attached Image:

Full Tank

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

In that last shot, there is a female adult Platy between the center rock and the rock on the right. I had to put her down last night, but she would have died within a few hours max anyway. She showed no visible signs of damage, but she was sitting motionless for most of the day (I first thought she will have fry, like soooooo many times before) but when feeding time came she did weird moves around the tank.

I hope that she died of old age as she is one of the original two that I introduced to the tank when I set it up initially, almost two years ago.

On the other hand, one of the cories is having a whitish patch on his/her left side, I will try to point it out in a later picture.

So, here are some Cory shots:

Attached Image:

Cory I

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a shot that shows the Cory (on the left) with the whitish patch on his/her left side (on the right from your perspective). The patch is just before and below the dorsal fin.

The fish behaves totally fine, eats well, peruses the tank with the others. I will wait a while and then see what to do about it.

Attached Image:

Cory III

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So much about Cories needing open substrate to find food. Here is a typical shot on other areas of the tank where the cories look for food, the top of the Wisteria plants.

Also, note the rather "bad" look of the leaves on the lower right of the picture vs. the "healthy" look of the leaves on the left. The bad ones are old growth and the healthy ones are new growth. I almost gave up on the wisteria in the tank, but instead put the old light back on. The new one (65W) was just too much for a low tech tank.

Attached Image:

Cory IV

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last shot for this session, another cory-eating-of-substrate.

I will try to get a better picture of the cory's white patch today,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Cory V

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As always, everything is looking very nice.

I just recently switched back to the old 2x20 T8 setup

So it will be interesting to see how your baby tiger lily does. I will use you as the experiment & maybe try it myself if it works for you.

My cories (sterbai) also seem happy in a planted tank & spend equally as much time in areas of solid planting as they do in the areas where they can get to the gravel.

Hope the white patch turns out to be nothing. Keep us posted.

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn for input and comments,

Things are going from bad to worst in a hurry.

Now the second adult female is lethargic and just hangs out either at the surface or the bottom. And the patchy cory just sits at the bottom, having a blossoming patch on the other side of his body as well. All does not look too good, I have to say. Only the juvenile and child platies are as active as usual.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
If you are concerned about the white patch, you might drop
a PM to LHG or Caili with a picture and see what they have
to say about it. I don't think they frequent this forum
very often and might pass over your concerns.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I agree, Git especially seems to know disease. I'll be the first to admit that I wouldn't have a clue. Sorry to hear about the losses, hopefully you can get this fixed up quick. Thank goodness for QT, huh LF?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah, thanks guys, but I think I pass.

Why? Because I am a lazy bum

I would have to get all kinds of measurements (N, P, and what not) and my kits are old and haven't been used in quite a while. Then, if they would know what it is and how to treat it (if that is possible at all) I would have to go and get meds, do water changes like a madman, and what not. I actually don't have the time for it, and I don't have the patience.

Tonight all fish ate fine, including the adult Platie and the patchy Cory. I will just wait it out and then ask you guys how long you think I will have to leave the tank empty (once all died, but I hope it doesn't come to it).

I know it sounds harsh, but most of the time once you see the illness it is too late anyway (as it is not Ich) and either they pull through or not.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's interesting I haven't had alot of success with Cory's although I did have one survive my son's 5g (which is now my nano open-top), my yeast factory and my other tank for about 2 years. Other than that I didn't have alot of success, although I attribute loses to the corrupted eco I had at the time. LF I think I had the same species, but couldn't find the pics in my log.

My Scapes

Hi Ingo,
Actually you kinda surprised me with that reply.
If the fish die, and you want to quarantine the tank
so to speak, you should still know what it was that
killed them. How long you leave it fish less might depend
upon what it was and how it survives.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks tetratech for the input

Frank - I know it sounded harsh, I didn't meant it to be that way. To explain it a little further:

Have you ever tried to explain someone the dynamics of your tank, like the interaction and bahvior amongst the fish and the plant etc. development over time? I find it is almost impossible to describe all the inputs (parameters) that may attribute to a certain status quo.

For example:

It makes perfect sense that the "old" platy died this weekend as she was truly old and gave birth pretty much every month ever since I had her. That is a lot of babies and very tasking on the female.

On the other hand - was the introduction of the new fish the reason? On to the current "sick" female Platy, also an adult. She (and the other) show no outwards signs of illness, just strange behavior. For about one year, these two females were together in this tank and managed to divert offers made by younger males (one at a time, never more males of breeding age) between them. Now she is alone and the tank does not offer a lot of hiding places. Can it be that her behavior is based on harassment and that she is not ill at all? If she is ill, how can a non-visual illness be identified with high accuracy?

And the Cory: These catfish are hard to evaluate because of their armor. Illnesses that manifest on the outside are very different from non-plated fish. And what about his behavior? He eats as much and vigurously as the other cories, hangs out almost as often as they do, and is socially accepted by the other two. His spot has not increased. What are the chances that he can wing it? If this is a fatal illness, what are the chances that we only see the effects but not the cause, which may - and most likely is - one of many reasons. Am I going to treat for all of them? How?

About the other fish in the tank: There are currently one juvenile male, one juvenile female, 2 almost juvenile somethings, and 3 youngsters. So far, none of them shows any signs of anything. I would have assumed that the illness spreads from the weakest to the strongest, so what is up with that? Does that mean that even a youngster is stronger than the adult? Doesn't sound plausible.

As you can see, this are only the obvious reasons for me on why asking the experts (and I appreciate their knowledge very much) seems a waist of time as they are most likely only going to add more questions to this equation. I can already hear the reply that it is "most likely" this or that illness, at best. Well, most likely is less than 100% and so the doubts of something else as the culprit remain.

Does it make more sense now? Maybe I invite them to look at this thread and let choose if they would add comments or not

Thanks,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, I hope it all comes to nothing. At one stage, I thought I could see a white patch on one of my cories. The more I looked, the more I thought I could see it. In the end, I think it was just a variance in his colour - so I hope the same goes for you. They have been in my tank maybe around a year now.

I have had good luck with cories - albeit not these false Julis (or whatever their name is). I think they are really cute & playful - the way they bounce around the place.

Cheers
TW

LF,

The corrie with the white spot. I think it might be a heater burn. I have seen it in my story a few times and also on a couple of my Otos too.

Just my thoughts....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Robyn and Wings for the input.

The corrie with the white spot. I think it might be a heater burn.

You know what? This was one of the thoughts that I forgot to mention in my brainstorming session further up. It had crossed my mind that this may be from the heater as they went to hide under the heater during the first day. I even considered raising the heater further up as the gap below was rather narrow. But I had to evaluate what is worse, learning that this thing is hot or scaring them even more by messing with their cover.

Thanks, and again another option to consider,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo,

I have to say it looks like a thermal burn to me too.There is a slight swelling too in the picture,you can see the perfect symmetry of the cory from the front aspect is slightly off, and thats fairly typical as the heat damages the tissues and they may take up a little water.

Because burn tissue sloughs outwards there will be be some dead tissue on the exterior of the fish for some time, maybe even a month or two. During this time the fish would will be susceptible to bacterial and fungal infections, fungal infections especially may try to take hold as they rather than bacteria will be the first to colonise dead flesh or slime layers. Should the patch widen or redden or indeed go fluffy, reach for the meds.

I guess you can leave it and see how it goes,maybe try a little stress coat, but I might try just a little pimafix to knock the fungal levels in the tank down a little while he recovers, just as you would if you had eggs in the tank. You keep some pretty clean tanks , so I wouldnt expect too much trouble.


On the other deaths, the swimming upside down and sudden deaths- well TBH aside from acclimation shock (lets face it , it happens sometimes no matter what you do) there is a chance of flaggelate protozoan infection, there are many many species, and cories will be in the frontline of fish that ingest them as they feed. They too can cause skin patches, and they do indeed exploit open wounds. Because many protozoa show no truly indicative external symptoms its tricky to diagnose.Many do not cause significant loss of weight , and some go straight for the nervous system, killing the fish before advanced debilitation and starvation set in.

Looking at the pics of your fish,which are beautifully clear the only thing I really cant rule out apart from a minor fungus infection which would not kill, is a protozoan infection. Theres no hint of heavy bacterial activity, no reddening of the gills, no signs of septacaemia, eyes are clear, skin apart from the one with the patch is very healthy, all barbels intact.Visually theres nothing much to go on.

You live in the states and so could try some jungle labs antiparasite formula, and could treat the fish safetly without ruining the balance of your tanks. Might be worth a go. Protozoa area major mystery killer, they often (more than most other complaints) leave no visible trace.


Somehow though, call it instinct, ill be surprised if you get further deaths. Maybe just sit and watch for any definite symptoms before doing anything.

LHG,

Thank you so much for your input and help

The cories have been the same yesterday as they had been the days before, more or less active, and very active at feeding time. I see no difference in behavior of the "sick" one when compared to the two others. His mark is the same, no decline is noticable.

ON THE OTHER HAND: I had to put down the second adult female Platy . When coming home from work she was very inactive and was breathing hard. Her movements where no longer proper, albeit she could still swim for a short period she pretty much sank to the floor and sat there. There was no struggle what-so-ever when I caught her, it would have been a question of a few hour max and she would have died on her own.

Having Platies now for over two years I have seen a few "unexplainable" deaths along the way, where out of the blue, without any changes to the tank, a Platy gets sick and dies. Overbred? Maybe. The Platy in this tank that I had to put down a few days ago could have easily died of old age (and heavy breeding frequency), but when I got here a long time ago I bought a second female that died rather young (nevertheless, over one year old), also without major changes to tank and population. There are so many variables in the tank that it is hard to pinpoint what kills a fish (except if clear signs are there). In this case, it could have been the fact the last nights victim wasn't the youngest anymore as well, combined with the stress that she was now the sole target of a male. Under normal conditions I would have removed that male and placed him in the 29G, that's what I did in the past with fry that got too large and stalked the females. But, of course, in quaranteen conditions this would not have been a good move this time around.

Again, all other fish in the tank look and behave fine, even the youngest of the platies (like maybe 6 weeks old).

I will keep an eye open and see what happens next.

Again, thanks a lot LHG for the input and in confirming Wings' possible explanation of the Cory marking,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The platys probably are inbred, sometimes its like someone just turned off their clock, they get cancer, (not visible if internal), the immune system goes to hell, and they just start to die.It happens to so many selectively bred species, not just fish, mammals too. I had a shoal of sunset platies that just all died of cancer and no immune system within days of each other, I had full path reports done on them because it was doing my noodle in. Nothing was seriously wrong with them , other than a lot of deformed tissue on a microscopic level, as if they no longer had any oxidant defense. Cellularly,they just suddenly aged and died. They were two years old. No real disease was complicit other than the usual gut bacteria expanding as they weakened.

It might well just be bad genes. Whatever the problem, id guess its specific to the platies and their resistance issues, I think the cories are basically ok. Unfortunately the genetic health of the platies is not something I can predict.If they were my fish however, I might still be tempted to try some jungle formula, just to content myself that id reduced the chances of unseen threats a little.

Its one of those things, maybe im a little paranoid, but id still like to take the option of knowing id tried everything rather than watching them keel over one by one on theoretical calculation, even if I am fairly confidant the calculations are correct. Nature loves to make fools of the clever folks especially Hence I like to cover my bases a lot.Its a probability thing.

Thanks LHG again,

I think I will wait until the next fish shows any signs of slowing down and then frantically go on the hunt for Jungle Tabs.

And I am 100% with you on the overbred issue of Platies. the female that died yesterday was potentially the daughter of her mother and her brother

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just a quick update:

Things are looking good, no further losses have ocurred and all fish are active. The "marked" cory seems just fine, and I believe the mark is getting smaller, or I simply got used to it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thats good to hear!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

no further losses have ocurred and all fish are active. The "marked" cory seems just fine

Cheers
TW

Not much has changed in this tank in the last few weeks, except that during the last water change the rhizome of the Anubias that was stuch behind the middle rock broke and I had to anchor the plant differently (that's why it is almost not visible anymore.

The cories are all doing fine, it appears as if the one with the heater burns is doing ok now.

Here is the tank,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Last Night

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Glad your cory is doing well now. Are they still in QT, or is this their home now. IF so, they are lucky to have such a nice home.

Cheers
TW

They are still in QT Robyn, and I actually think I will eventually place them in the 40G once I "cleaned up" that tank.

Glad you find this tank to be nice, the members of the NJAGC that were at last weeks meeting in my place think that this is actually my best tank (design wise)

Ingo

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Over a month has gone by since I added the 4 Cories, of which 3 made it through the first day and are still going strong. So today, I could not leave them in such small numbers anymore:

Attached Image:

More Cories

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Yay, yippee - more cories. They are sooo cute

Cheers
TW

So I bought another 3, to beef up the group to 6 (or at least 5, as the one that once got burned by the heater seems a little weak).

Not long after the bag got into the QT, the residents already wanted to school.

Attached Image:

Get Out and Play!

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Here come 5 more shots of them after they finally got out of the bag.

Here are two of the new ones,

And thanks Robyn

Attached Image:

2 New Ones

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Here are two new ones and two old ones, being observed by a juvenile platy in the back.

The new ones are lighter in coloration, so for now they can be easily distinuished.

Attached Image:

Group

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Here is a group shot of three of them, with Lilly,

I think only the left one is an old one, already can't keep them straight anymore

Attached Image:

Smaller Group

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During these group shots, the other new one visited the "burned" one. He is simply hanging out most of the time, not doing much at all.

Attached Image:

Hey Buddy!

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Last but not least, enjoy 5 of them together, with two old ones on the left (including burny).

That's it,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Good By

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Cute Corry Cats! You will enjoy having a larger group of them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yes Wings,

They do, and showed me that they like it as soon as the new ones were released.

Not that I did not know that anyway, but I did not have a choice as only 3 "good" ones were available in the first batch (we know what happened to the 4th I bought then, one of the lazy guys, as he didn't make it through the first 24h). This time, they had more active ones in the store and I think it paid off.

Ingo

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Hm,

Last night, when coming home from work, I found the burned Cory dead. As I mentioned in an earlier entry, he wasn't all that active like the others, so I cannot say for sure what killed him (don't suggest testing my water parameters, please).

So, this means that there are now 5 Cories left, so far they look good.

I bought some frozen Blood Worms for them, now if I only would remember how to serve them

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sorry for the loss

Now, re feeding with the frozen blood worms, here's what I do:-
I have a spare little measuring medicine cup, that came with some fish meds, that I have saved. I put a little tank water in that & cut off a small portion of frozen worms from one of the cubes & add that to the medicine measuring cup. Let the worms thaw & come to room temperature. I have a spare fine mesh net & I sieve my tank water/worm mixture & poor the liquid down the sink (you don't want to put all that yucky red liquid in your tank - at least I don't think you do).
Now you can just dump the worms (bit by bit) into your tank, or tank the even more cautious next step that I do.

I have a medicine dropper (such as used for human babies). I put the now clean bloodworms back in the medicine measuring cup, add a little more tank water. Then suck up a small amount in my medicine eye dropper. This way I can target feed the intended fish, as well as I find I have better control in making sure I only deliver a small portion at a time. I find I make less waste/mess in the tank with this method & once the stop taking the worms, I just dump the exces in the trash.

Forgot to mention that after I cut off the small portion I'll use at that feed, I put the balance of that cube back in the packaging & then double wrap the whole thing in glad wrap (is that what you call it in US - the clingy plastic wrap stuff) & pop it straight back in the freezer.

Oh, does this question mean you have bought yourself your own fridge/freezer for your fishy supplies?

Cheers
TW

Oh, does this question mean you have bought yourself your own fridge/freezer for your fishy supplies?

- No, I have it wrapped in a paper bag and told my wife it is sealed fish food (which is true). I guess the trouble will start once I have individual glad wrap packages all over the fridge .

Thanks Robyn for the detailed account on how to feed this stuff. I currently have a very fine dropper for my liquid ferts and will see if that one works (not the one I use for the ferts, a spare one).

Just two more questions:

1) If I just dump them into the tank, will they sink?
2) How long does it take to defrost the portion of the cube?

Thanks in advance,

Ingo

PS: I also saw the female Apisto in the 125G going into "hiding" under some plant/wood formation. I assume she is guarding as she is as healthy looking as she can be. Maybe I put some in that area as well, is she happens to still guard tonight.

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It's about time you got your hands on some frozen food!

Just two more questions:

1) If I just dump them into the tank, will they sink?
2) How long does it take to defrost the portion of the cube?

1. They should. If they are still froze then they might float for a bit but if you defrost them they should sink just fine.

2. Blood worms defrost rather quickly. A minute or two tops.

Are you planning on hooking the Apistos from teh 40G with them too? I think you should!


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

PS: I also saw the female Apisto in the 125G going into "hiding" under some plant/wood formation. I assume she is guarding as she is as healthy looking as she can be. Maybe I put some in that area as well, is she happens to still guard tonight.

Fingers crossed for you here, although you probably have lots of hungry residents waiting to snack on fry in the 125G.

Maybe I put some in that area as well, is she happens to still guard tonight

Good plan. Not only will she love you for it, if you dump it real close, she won't have to venture too far from her eggs/fry to have a snack. It's always a risk to eggs/fry when mum leaves to eat, unless dad is sharing the guarding burden.

Blood worms will defrost really quickly, especially as they are sitting in tank water to defrost. Yes they should sink to the bottom, but a possible problem with just dumping them may mean the current in the tank will drift the bloodworms where you don't necessarily want them to. Same thing happens with flakes & pellets I guess, but I find my hungry surface eaters don't give that much chance to happen. Your platys will thank you for the bloodworms too

I started off using the eye dropper, so I could direct food to exactly where I want it. Especially useful when feeding fry BBS.

Definitely share the bloodworms around in all your tanks - everyone will thank you. Agree with Wings that the Apistos will love them.

Cheers
TW

Thanks guys for the input, I will try out how this feeding of frozen stuff goes and report back to you. Depending on how much I defrost I may spread it out over the tanks.

Ingo

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I always defrost the bloodworms, then rinse the "nasty water" using a brine shrimp net(the white kind) and run them under tap water. This removes a lot of excess waste, and will help in the algae control area. So I don't recommend just plunking it into the tank. You can also use a turkey baster(not the wife's ) or eye dropper as to target feed in tough places as stated above.

Sorry to hear about the cory. He didn't look so great in the last pic. I hope these do well for ya. They will definitely enjoy the bloodworms.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

told my wife it is sealed fish food (which is true). I guess the trouble will start once I have individual glad wrap packages all over the fridge

Tell her, quite truthfully, it will always remain sealed. It will be sealed with glad wrap that's all. I return the portion of cube straight back into the little square it popped out of, put the foil cover back in place (I never fully remove it - only peel it as far as I need to access the current cube I'm using) & then double wrap it in glad wrap. Totally sealed, IMO.

I always defrost the bloodworms, then rinse the "nasty water" using a brine shrimp net(the white kind) and run them under tap water.

Exactly what I do Matty, only I use tank water (just being extra cautious). That's what happens when I soak them in the medicine cup to thaw (in tank water) then rinse them in a net, using extra tank water, to rinse till clean.

Cheers
TW

Thanks folks for the additional info,

Feeding went pretty well last night, I will post a photo documentation of it tonight so bear with me until then

Ingo

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I will post a photo documentation of it tonight so bear with me until then

Well, as you can see I did not post the pictures the following evening, I had somewhat of a crisis but more to this in my 40G log.

So, here are the pictures for the feeding.

First up, the Hikari cube still frozen:

Attached Image:

Food I

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Then I took a small measuring cup and added some tank water and dumped the cube in there. As soon as I did the defrosting started, I thought it would take a while.

Attached Image:

Food II

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Once defrosted, I took the baby brime shrimp net that I bought a while back (don't know why, but I thought it may come handy some day) and drained the worms.

Attached Image:

Food III

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I placed fresh tank water in the cup and gave the worms another swim. This time I used less water, just enought for the worms to be submersed so that I will be able to "scoop" up more at once.

Attached Image:

Food IV

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Then I took one of my 3ml droppers, the same kind that I use for my ferts, and sucked up a bunch of the worms.

Attached Image:

Food V

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And then I dropped some into the 20G QT, right in the area where two of the cories were looking for food. As you can see, neither seems to interested. One eventually stumbled accross the worms, and may have eaten one, but there was no rush for it. So I am a little dissapointed.

The cories, as of today, don't seem to be doing to well. It seems like another one is on his way out, I expect him to go down within the next two to three days. Maybe cories are not for me.

Attached Image:

Food VI

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The fish that really liked the bloodworms though were the Platies in the tank, oh surprise.

Here you can watch a juvenile munching down the third worm in a row, LOL.

Attached Image:

Food VII

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Last but not least, I took some of the remaining worms and added them to the 40G, which also did not seem to raise too much interest right away. I guess they don't know what to do with it.

In the 125G, on the other hand, all fish went nuts over them. Here you see the female Apisto appreciating the snack.

That is it for now,

Have fun and check the other logs as I did a huge photo weekend and all 4 logs have new pictures (in a few mintues, at least),

Ingo

Attached Image:

Food VIII

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Nice picture doc. Ingo, I always enjoy them.

I am surprised that the cories didn't take to the worms...if they like shrimp pellets (like mine) then shouldn't they like something more "meaty"?

Also sorry to here about your sick cory, hope he gets better.




~Morgan~

Nice picture doc. Ingo, I always enjoy them.

I am surprised that the cories didn't take to the worms...if they like shrimp pellets (like mine) then shouldn't they like something more "meaty"?

Also sorry to here about your sick cory, hope he gets better.




~Morgan~

Have to say that although most everyone else seems to enjoy blood worms in my tanks (except ottos), I have never seen my cories eat them either. In fact, I never see the cories pay much attention to any of the wafers I drop in either. They constantly are picking at the bottom and seem to be strong survivors in my tanks, so I assume they do eat - just not when I'm watching - or else the picking is enough for them.

I'm surprised that everyone else isn't going wild for the worms though. Maybe they just haven't realised it's a food source, since it is a new offering for them. Once they get the taste, it may change.

I hope the sick one picks up and hope you find corys are for you, after all. So cute with their antics.

Cheers
TW

I begin to think that the barbels are wearing down on them as they dig through the Eco. It appears as if the 3 older ones, of which one is dead and one will be soon, have much shorter barbels than the newer ones

Ingo

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begin to think that the barbels are wearing down on them as they dig through the Eco. It appears as if the 3 older ones, of which one is dead and one will be soon, have much shorter barbels than the newer ones

I had a hard time as well with Corys in my eco-based tank initially, while they seem to live fine in my son's regular color-dyed graveled 5G. I wonder if there's any more info to support a eco connnection.

My Scapes

I've always heard not to keep cories in tanks with sharp gravel....I didn't think that co complete fell into that category. I'd think they would do fine.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah,

I also have no idea what the problem is, and I also knew about the sharp gravel - not good for cories thing. But I also heard that Eco would not fall into this category.

I guess some research would be in place, I would just have to find the time to do it,

Ingo

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Kind of a wild guess but maybe the cories' barbles are wearing down because they are rooting a lot in the gravel looking for food. If you could find a food that they really like, they would be full more and not "root around" so much.
Whenever I had a school of cories, I got them hooked on shrimp pellets and they did not root around so much. So maybe this might be it.
Although it could seem likely that it is your gravel - since it has some special plant food stuff in it that could be harmful to the cories, but that doesn't make sense to me because the package prolly says "aquarium safe"... I am not really sure about anything though.()


~Morgan~

It's only a hunch but I do think it's the Eco, but I think it has more to do with the chemical makeup of the stuff than its physical shape. Any fish will be affected by a substrate leaching stuff into the WC, but the corys in particular since by nature they are digging right into the stuff. In nature I'm sure Cory's live with a fairly inert substrate, probably mostly sand or small stones so now their in a tank with a substrate that is heavy on the metal size with Iron and other elements. In my experience with Corys and Eco they did much better after the eco was a year or so old. Again totally unscientific, but a hunch nevertheless.

My Scapes

It is good to know about this, because I had been thinking about using EC in my 75g when I set it up. Now I will be thinking harder about using something else, or not putting cories in there.

Listen! Do you smell that?

Hope it's not the eco. I already have the eco waiting to go in the tank to replace the 43g & my healthy cories will be moving house, along with everyone else.

Cheers
TW

Hope it's not the eco. I already have the eco waiting to go in the tank to replace the 43g & my healthy cories will be moving house, along with everyone else

Sorry to scare you Robyn. Again it's certainly just my experience and a hunch and you'll have to draw your own conclusions. The only correlation here is that LF and I both had trouble keeping cories in eco-based tanks and cories are considered fairly easy fish to keep, but it doesn't mean it's the Eco it could be sensitivity to something else.

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech. I will keep my fingers crossed (bought 3 bags of the stuff [eco that is] and it's really costly here in Aus).

I still have my other planted tank (with ADA soil) but I don't want cories in there. That tank is a safe haven for breeding apistos (even if they didn't read the rules & don't do what's expected). I don't want egg predators (or any predators) in there. I've read cories eat eggs.

The move is still about a month away (tank is being made now & then I'm going to get a tradesman in to reinforce my cupboard). Then fish will move across slowly (only a few each month). Planned to move the ottos last, but maybe I should rethink & move cories last.

Sorry to hijack your thread LF, with this side issue.

Cheers
TW

still have my other planted tank (with ADA soil)

For some reason I didn't realize you had ADA soil in a tank. When you say ADA soil are you referring to Aquasoil Amazonia. What was your experience starting up the tank with that stuff? Did you use it in combination with powersand? Reason I ask is I have 3 bags of the stuff and I'm about to start up the old 46g with it.

My Scapes

I used Aquasoil Amazonia in my 23G (the dedicated apisto breeding tank). I used Power Sand Special under the aqasoil, which has Bacter 100 and Clear Super added to it. The Power Sand doesn't have those, but they can be bought separately. Tank was set up with ADA in May 2006.

What I like about it:-
Tank was absolutely clear from first filling (probably the Clear Super helped there)

My pH from tap is around 7.8 to 8pH & this ADA keeps it low. Not sure how low, as my test kit doesn't go below 6.0, but I just tested it now & know it is no higher than 6.0 & probably it's even lower (dang, wish I hadn't broken my pH pen tester). I'm really happy about it's ability to keep pH low and stable, as that's why I mainly bought it.

Plants grow really well. At the moment I'm having algae problems, but I think it was a lack of fast growers & not related to ADA.

What I don't like about it:-
If it lowers ph so dramatically - how do you tell if you have too much C02 going in (this is one reason I don't use C02 in this tank).
When you pull up a rooted plant, the little volvanic stones (which is what power sand is) rise to the surface - which is annoying.

In all, I do recommend it and I'm really happy with it.

Cheers
TW

Yeah,

I put down the other cory last night, I have no idea what is going on. So far I lost 3 out of 7, one was sick from the getgo, one had the burns and was dead one day, and the last one had his tail disintegrating and was breathing very hard. All other fish in the tank (like 7 platies and 4 cories) look fine, I will see what happens next. If I had to make a prediction then I would say that the reamaining one cory from the first batch (like 6 weeks ago) should be the next one to show problems.


And about the Aqua Soil: I will start soon to look at the hearsay information I have about it (and the visuals I get from member tanks at the NJAGC and here) from a critical perspective. The more I think about it the less I like it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

the trick with the ADA stuff is to use lots of water changes from the get go isn't it?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

My water change routine with the ADA is once a week, same as for the other tanks. My algae problems only commenced when I had reduced plant mass & no fast growers. I can only go from my own personal experience though and, from that, I remain a fan of the stuff.

Interested to hear what others say, particularly those who've had it 2 yrs plus - does it still retain it's pH lowering qualities after that long? One year into use - I can confirm it does.

Cheers
TW

It is always interesting to see how a product works out for others.

The water change thing I was talking about... was from a fresh start up. After the first month or so I guess weekly is fine but the first month you really need to be on the water changes I guess.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Did you try the bloodworms again? Wondering if your fishies are learning to like them any better? More importantly, how are your cories doing?

Agree Wings, I'll be interested to hear how ADA goes for others, if LF does any research. What have you heard? It always seems doubts start coming in on a product, just after I buy it

Re the water changes, the ADA tank was crystal clear from the get go. There were no water changes until it cycled, then moved straight into 50% weekly and sometimes bi-weekly water changes. As the ADA tank is low tech, I don't always do a change every week

Maybe I have been luckier than others, but seems to have worked out in my tank so far.

Cheers
TW

if LF does any research

As of right now, I am way too lazy to seriously get into that topic, but I have seen tanks do well in various substrates and I have seen tanks not doing so well in the same substrates. Meaning - overall care is the key, not the substrate. Now, what does care mean? Too much to explain quickly and I haven't thought it out either


Anyway, here are some tank shots from now: First up, the Nana Petite forest in the right front of the tank:

Attached Image:

Nana Petite

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Next in line, the 4 remaining Cories. No Robyn, I have not tried to feed more frozen food, I didn't get around to it.

So far, these 4 seem ok, although the one remaining from the first batch is not always into the perusing that the other 3 do all day long. Here they all are, on the heater:

Attached Image:

Cories

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Here is a close-up of an addition I made this weekend, the Najas Indica in the 29G grew so well that I could use 4 clippings in this tank.

Anyone with a Nano Tank, this may be something for you, think about it!

Attached Image:

Najas Indica

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And here is a look at one of the permanent residents, the twin bar platies. This one is a juvenile, one of 7 overall. I think soon it is time to move some of them into the 29G as they are growing too tall for this tank.

Attached Image:

Juvenile Platy

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Last but not least, a full tank shot from yesterday. Here you can see the additon of the Najas Indica to the left and right of the fern in the center. Overall, the tank is pretty stable and of almost no concern (there is always some concern).

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank 5/19/2007

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Just a quick update on the tank and an image coparison:

The tank has not much changed in the last few weeks, except that the nana petites were removed in favor of the 125G's redo.

Also, the Najas indica looks a little stomped, that is because at the time of this picture (and for the last two weeks) about 30 Amano shrimp were quaranteened in this tank. And these guys can eat a lot. They cleaned up the substrate at the open front and when that was done they started to eat the indica leaves

Here is the tank:

Attached Image:

6/2/2007

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Almost by accident I came up with the idea to take a picture with the lighting moved much further forward, actually the unit itself was hanging over the front of the tank.

I am surprised how different the tank looks under this lighting condition.

That's it for now,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Another Lighting Position

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Ingo , love the hardscape in this tank , really strong and simple . I'm always in a quandry about what looks best with different light positions .

Moving it forward does make the tank look very different though . Think I like the light plays on the rocks better with it further forward.
Garry

Yes Garry - I like the hardscape as well, a long tank that is rather shallow allows rather small rocks to play an important role.

I am not intending to light the tank as shown in the second picture, it was just to show how different the incoming light can make a tank look.

Ingo

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Well the lighting effect you show is just a small example of how important camera skills and equipment is when taking photos of your tank. Have you ever seen the equipment Amano uses to photograph his tanks? Many pics you see of tanks from advanced scapers are either professional done or are photoshopped to death to get the right look, etc.

My Scapes

Have you ever seen the equipment Amano uses to photograph his tanks?

Yeah, it's called "20 people"

Many pics you see of tanks from advanced scapers are either professional done or are photoshopped to death to get the right look, etc.

So much about the "code of honor" that explicitly limits the actions that one is allowed to perform when participating in contests and such

Ingo

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So much about the "code of honor" that explicitly limits the actions that one is allowed to perform when participating in contests and such

Who knows what tetra has done with his tank to win contest.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Who knows what tetra has done with his tank to win contest.

Come again

My Scapes

I am sure Wings was only kidding, right

But you know what I meant tetratech, right? Whenever there is a chance that something can be enhanced through tools (or doping, as we can see now in baseball and bicyclists) some people will not be able to resist.

Some of these tools have been permitted, or are at least tolerated, for example the removal of all tank hardware during the shoot (heaters and all), the "fresh" replant of trimmings for the shoot (as I have read an article about someone who was successful in competitions and he did just that, fresh trimmings stuck tightly together albeit the stems would never have enough light to grow like that), and the addition of a fan above the water line for the ripple effect.

This does not apply to you, of course, as you didn't enter a contest per se but have been selected because of the tank's natural beauty, and they have seen your tank in various stages a few times by now, right?

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I am sure Wings was only kidding, right

Right I guess I should have added a to my comment. This time around I need one of these...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Right I guess I should have added a to my comment. This time around I need one of these...

I know your only kidding, cause I know you, but without the , you never know what someone's thinging through this medium.

BTW - Only kidding with the algae post in LF's log

My Scapes

This does not apply to you, of course, as you didn't enter a contest per se but have been selected because of the tank's natural beauty, and they have seen your tank in various stages a few times by now, right?

Yes, that is pretty much correct. There are certain allowable alterations and equipment usage guidelines for these scaping contests whether those alterations be pre or post picture. Certainly trimming, cleaning glass, removing equipment and cleaning sand is a given. I don't see an issue with that. But some are very skilled at using photoshop and will use layer, etc to bring out certain aspects of their tanks. Sometimes these aspects are what the tank does really look like in real-life and sometimes it's not. Certainly anyone can make their reds look more read, etc. I really haven't focused on this end of the hobby yet, since I'm still simply using my Canon S2 IS without any additional equipment.

My Scapes

I really haven't focused on this end of the hobby yet

yeah, me neither, but I am working on it (at least mentally). I am looking for better camera equipment, mostly in the direction of a flash, and working on some processing software, like photoshop. I have a few pages back in my 125G log an image of the Apisto that I took, followed by a shot that one user made with such a processing tool of the low res image from the fish. There is no comparison, it looks just so much better.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I always think your pics look incredible

Cheers
TW

I always think your pics look incredible

Well thanks Robyn,

That is very nice of you to say. But once you realize that all these super tankers (LOL) cook with water just like you do, you begin to wonder what makes their tanks look so much better. Sure, I am not the best scaper out there by far, but one cannot underestimate the importance of presentation for any product. Amano is the best example: I am sure he would be completely unknown had he taken his tank shots with a camera phone and didn't know what he does about photography,

Ingo

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BTW - Only kidding with the algae post in LF's log

I knew you would get me back somewhere..

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Just a quick update on this tank:

Not much has changes, there are still about 12 Amanos in there and their favorite hobbyist angering task seems to be to eat the Najas Indica. Every other week I have to trim the plant as the lower parts are all eaten up, side shoots are reduced to little stomps.

Here is a replanted top:

Attached Image:

Najas indica

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