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Oh, 2-4 days. Is that all. I was expecting weeks of enjoyment So, I have already had this new flower for a couple of days, so I should expect it be gone any moment.

Funny that my other one's casing didn't drop off (as well as the flower). The casing closed back up around the flower and all is still there. It doesn't look dead or unhealthy - but should I trim it off?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The tank is looking good. My first Anubias flower did the same thing until I got tired of it and cut it off at a trimming. The one I just got recently bloomed and the disappeared very quickly.

Also a tip incase you have to have someone feed again. This works for flake food. Get some small envelopes and put enough food for each day in each one. Then tell who ever is watching the tank to only put one envelope in at a time no matter what. This way you still dose the food.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Robyn,

Yeah, that may happen, flowers may decide that it is too wet outside . Wait a while and as long as it is not starting to disintegrate you can keep it without any issues.

Rick's tip is good. I have a different form of providing food for a "feeder". I use these one-week pill cases where each day is a separate chamber. They have even the beginning letters of the day imprinted, as such I am able to provide different foods for different days in the right order.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hoping for some quick advice about my chain swords - they are one of my experimental plants on the right side of the tank (experimental due to low light). Anyway, they have taken off with a mind of their own, with little runners & new smaller plants - all going where I don't want them. To replant them, can I separate them fully (ie cut off the runners that link them together & then just plant them where I want them?

Thanks for advice.

Cheers
TW

Yes, you can seperate each plant and replant where you want. Leave just a small amount of the runner on either side of the plant.

Nice to hear they are doing well for you. These are one of my favorite plants

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

In case it is needed, I second Matty

Except: Try not to replant the ones that have only a few shorter leaves yet. They may not be strong enough to build up a sufficient root system on their own. The also are hard to keep planted and always give me the biggest trouble sticking in the groud.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I say do try to keep the small ones as long as they do have a bit of root and 1 leaf of at least and inch and a small leaf or two. I've not gotten anything much smaller than that to grow for me, but if they are that big I can consistantly get them to grow to full size.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks for the chain sword advice LF & Matty. At last night's water change, I did a major trimming of the tank & I think I may have gotten carried away. It is looking a bit bare in there at the moment. As well as trimming the hygro, I decided to redo the right hand side of the tank - which had been the experimental side. Got rid of some of the varieties & stuck with the ones that worked best. The chain sword had been hiding the Blyxa from view, so they have swapped places. From a starting group of about 2 or 3 blyxa, I now have 8 of them. So, they are sort of working in the tank, but not as lush as they would be if they had more light. they are staying quite small - but at least they did multiply. I hope they survive the replanting. The last batch did not survive when replanted. You can now see my crypt & anubia more. The chain swords have moved to behind the Blyxa and again, from a start of 2 plants, I now have lots of them. Made a bit of a mistake. I can never quite tell how everything is going when I'm replanting & I never get the full picture until the hood is back on & the light switched on. While planting, I thought I had put more than enough chain swords back in and threw out what I thought were surplus. Only after they were squashed & worthless did I realise that I should have kept them. Hopefully in another month or 2, I will have enough to fill it all out a bit more. I also thinned out my java fern & again I think I may have taken too much out. Those I have saved though. I have a whole bucket full of java ferns that multiplied in the tank. I'm going to think about if I want to put some back over the couple of days.

No pictures today, maybe I will take some on the weekend.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

seems like you almost did a redo Little_Fish style. A word of caution: replanting a lot and trimming/thinning the rest of the plants at the same time can cause some issues in your tank. Your bio-mass has been reduced and the replanted plants will need all their energy to get settled again.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Bit late on this one but with regard to the Epsom Salts. It's just Magnesium Sulphate. Once you have GH above zero you Magnesium in the water, always , constantly. How many fish live in zero GH water ?

Maybe in very high concentrations there's an issue, I don't know. But we are only talking about adding the equivilent of about 2dgh, and only add in situations where the GH is already low. Completely and utterly harmless to fish. In most cases where Mg is added the water will still be softer and have less Mg then the average tank.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf. I have looked at the ingredients of Seachem's Equilibrium & see that it contains magnesium sulfate. So much for it being harmful to fish.

Thanks for popping in.

Cheers
TW

seems like you almost did a redo Little_Fish style.

Yeah, I sneak them in every now & again - pretty much unnoticed. When I added my large wood with the fern -that was pretty much a full redo as well.

Anyway, here is the full tank shot. It needs a little more filling out. To the left of the hygro is a disappointment - more about that with the next pic.



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Cheers
TW

My blue stricta (also seen it called Temple) previously did really well. It always grew tall, hiding the unsightly water intake pipe & the ugly pump. It was always multiplying. For the last couple of months it has not done well at all. See those damaged leaves. There are lots of holes & it just never grows tall anymore. This pic is not really showing how bad it looks - much worse in real life. What do the holes mean? I wonder if before the trimming, the hygro was shading it too much - but I think it has been doing badly well before it became shaded by the hygro. Any suggestions? I like this plant & would like to see it work again.

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Cheers
TW

Creeping wisteria to the left, java & Ricca on rock in the middle. Not too much riccia though - most of 30cm I bought has been eaten - but there is some. The pic doesn't show it, but they do contrast each other nicely. The re-positioned blyxa (never can remember how to spell that) is just to the right. I don't know yet if it will survive the move. Parts don't look so good anymore.

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Cheers
TW

The new right hand side. With the hair grass & Lilly grass removed - as well as a major thinning of the Java fern, you can now see the crypts & the anubias. I hope they don't attract algae now they are so exposed to the light. They've been shaded so long, they wouldn't be used to it.

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Cheers
TW

This one shows my chain sword peeping over from the back, but really it is just because I like my nigerian red male so much. Such a peaceful and well behaved fellow. Tries to come to the surface for food, but really, I think he dislikes the ill mannered feeding behaviour of the other greedy occupants. Think he finds the rainbows in particular too pushy.

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Cheers
TW

Potassium, Potassium, Potassium

Holes AND stunted growth = lack of Potassium

In 99.9% of all situations, at least

Otherwise, tank looks very nice. If you can afford it, maybe the right side shouldn't grow all in. This way it would stay more of an open playground.

Blyxa was spelled right

I guess you will run out of Riccia soon, if the mass is in decline because of eating. Maybe you want to save a little and build it back up in another tank.

And the nigerian is really looking very nice

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF,

Potassium - that's the KN03, isn't it? I currently dose 1/2 tspn 3 times a week. How much do think I should increase?

Yes, I love my Nigerian For looks, he is my current favourite fish. Due to his peaceful nature, I'd even give him a mate - if I could only find one & then be sure they are a true match.

Cheers
TW

Nooooo

While there is some potassium in KNO3 (the K is the potassium, the whole thing is called Potassium Nitrate), there is much more N (nitrate). You use this substance primarily to beef up the nitrate. A substance like K2SO4 (Potassium Sulfate, best as it only has an impact on K), or (I think you use it) to a limited value Seachem Equilibrium (which also influences other things, like calcium and magnesium and as such GH) adds the missing parts.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF,

Hmmm, K2SO4. I don't have any of that. I will have to track some down. I guess I can get some from the same place I got my KH2P04 & KN03.

When I get it, how much should I use & how frequently. I think all my tanks must lack this, as I have holes in leaves in them all.

Thanks for the tip.

Cheers
TW

It's near impossible to overdose k2so4 so I usually add a ppm every day. The stuff doesn't like to dissolve in water very much so I think that you'll end up dosing a few ml of the highest solution possible. I got mine from greg watson. That's where I get all my ferts.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Actually, my powder dissolves rather well

As I am "feeding" a quite large dosage of Equilibrium after each water change I do not add extra Potassium until the 3rd (=last) "feeding" of macros during the week.

Overall, the goal is to have your potassium levels (in ppm) equal to the nitrate level, if you follow EI that means around 20ppm. The problem is that there seems to be no cheap measuring kit for potassium. As such I had to hunt down the %of content within all the components that I add to evaluate how much potassium I need.

But as Matty says, it is hard to OD on this stuff. I would say that if you get your hands on K2SO4 then you could easily add 3x1/8tsp to 3x1/4tsp without any issues.

Also, isn't K2SO4 available in gardening stores as Stump Remover? I don't remember.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Stump remover is KNO3. I'm not sure there is a common source out there under a different name for K2SO4.

What I meant about the K2SO4 not dissolving well is that it comes to saturation quickly(after a certain point, no more will dissolve). It's impossible to make a super concentrated supply like with KNO3. For my fert bottles I have 1ml of my solution = a certain amount in my tank. With PO4 and KNO3 it's easy to make that 1ml=1ppm in my tank, but the K2SO4 the highest concentration gives 1ml=.28ppm in my tank.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty for clarifying that I only released nonsens when I spoke about Stomp Remover

So Robyn, that's not it then.

Matty - Why do you make a solution in the first place? I just mix them up with tank water before adding it. Is your quantity so small that a measuring spoon would not work?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Matty for clarifying that I only released nonsens when I spoke about Stomp Remover

you were really close if that's any consolation.

Yep, for 1ppm of KNO3 a day I'd be adding less than a tenth of a teaspoon, so accuracy is a little hard. I like to add my ferts daily, for a number of reasons, but mostly cause I forget to do it if it's not ritualistically every morning before I leave for class. This also keeps the ppm of nitrate around 10.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty & Ingo

If I can find some, then I will add K2SO4 3x1/8tsp or maybe 3x1/4tsp, on the same day as I add the other dry ferts. A hydroponics place supplied the other powders, so I hope they have this too.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
Stump remover is the common source for KNO3. Just be sure
that what you purchase does not have anything added to
speed up the decaying process.
Fleet Enema's are the common source for K2SO4. Again,
be sure to purchase the green package. The other color
package has additional "stuff" that is not ideal for the
aquarium.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the info Frank and thanks for popping in.

Cheers
TW

Hate to be the correction guy, but Fleet Enemas are used to dose PO4. The chemical formula is H2NaPO4.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

You probably don't need to dose Potassium separately. Your getting 3 to 2 ratio of No3 (N) to s04 (K) in KNO3, which if dosed 3 times a week should bring you to within EI ranges. Remember EI ranges are 10-20ppm for No3 and so4 so you could be off by alot and still hit your mark.

I personally never dose so4 and have never seen any deficenies that are known to be caused by low potassium.

All I dose is:

KNO3
PO4
Flourish

My Scapes

I would still dose that K.

Even though you're dosing KNO3, the signs still point to a K deficiency. Follow what the plants tell you...

Love the windelov mound, by the way

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks matty, tetratech & NowherMan6 for popping in and for the advice. I don't know if it's the potasium or not, but I do know I'm getting holes in the leaves, even with following the EI method strictly - so something is off. I figure it can't hurt to try the potassium, so if I can find it (haven't rung them yet) I will dose & see if it might mean no holes on new leaves.

It's a bit of a trip to get the stuff, but I will be passing that way on the 19th. In the meantime, I have some seachem equilibrium I've never used. Ordered it on line, when someone in another thread scared me off epsom salt. Instructions say to use so much of the stuff - but maybe until I get my potassium, it will help a little? Do you think so - or will it mess up my EI dosing?

Thanks again.

EDIT,

Love the windelov mound, by the way

NowherMan6, forgot to say thanks. I love it too, but I hope it stays low & doesn't grow much taller.

Cheers
TW

Even though you're dosing KNO3, the signs still point to a K deficiency. Follow what the plants tell you...

Hear Hear!

Exactly my feelings. As holes in the plants don't simply happen for no reason, and in the vast majority of cases are potassium related, and given that some OD on potassium is not harmful, there is no reason not to add it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi guys,

I have a question about the traces. I don't think we have the tropica brand I've reading you all discussing, so I use Seachem. I have always ordered on-line Seachem Fourish Trace (a broad range of trace elements demonstrated to be necessary for proper plant health and growth). By error on my last order, I must have ordered Seachem Flourish (a comprehensive plant supplement for the natural freshwater aquarium. It contains a rich assortment of important micro elements, trace elements and other nutrients. These include calcium, magnesium, iron and other important elements that have been shown to be beneficial to aquatic plants).

I'm wondering, is Flourish better than Flourish Trace. It seems to contain more, but is it at the cost of the Trace elements being lower? Because Flourish Trace on it's own didn't seem to include iron, I've also been adding that separately on the same days I add Trace.

Which product do you think would be best for my long term use.

Thanks.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

You may remember that I not too long ago ran out of TMG and that there was none available anymore. When asking around here I was informed that the most proper replacement would be Flourish and not Trace, so that would mean that your accidental purchase is for the better

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I use flourish, not trace, as one of the 4 brands of trace supplements that I use. As such I can't comment on it specifically other than it seems to have a great amount of different nutrients that aren't found in my other traces. All in all, the mix is working pretty good IMO.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Robyn,
I just happened to come across this, you might have seen it but it's an example dosing chart for EI. They also note so4 dosing as optional. But what nowher said about "what the plants are saying" is good advice. I will be curious to see if it's due to a lack of K.

From EI Dosing chart
Note: K2SO4 is not required for dosing unless you need the extra Potassium (K). This K is found in KN03 and KH2P04. Dosing these two according to above will yield sufficient K levels. Therefore, one will be fine dosing only KN03 and KH2P04, and Plantex. If one needs to increase their K levels with K2S04, add the same measured amount as KH2P04. For example, if one is dosing 1/2 tsp of KH2P04, then dose 1/2 tsp of K2S04.
In true regards to EI, added excess K is not detrimental in any event

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My Scapes

Thanks Matty & Ingo for the thumbs up for the Flourish.

Thanks tetratech for the extra info on ferts & the handy table.

Cheers
TW

I'm playing around with replacing this tank. Will need some more time to think about it, but how about a tank of the below dimensions:-

36" in length
18" in width
24" in height

This will give me 67.3G, instead of my current 43.5. I'll have a bit extra size in all directions & most importantly, I can get a cannister filter & whatever light fitting I want. I'd be allowed to set this new tank up straightaway, as long as I gave up on the 4ft tank & shut this one down.

What do you think about this size tank. I like the 24" height, as less frequent trimming required. Are there any issues about the light not reaching the bottom of the tank. Light would be around 200watts (compact PCs I think).

Any issues with this tank size? Comments appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW

Remember that tall tanks are hard to scape, and for it to look good many times you have to ignore the top 3rd of the tank. You could think of it as a 75, just a foot short on one side. Something similar would be the 50 like I have. It's 36X18X18, and would be easier to light and scape IMO. Either way you go a loverly tank it shall be.

At 2 ft a large % of light is lost, but with ~200w, I don't think you will have trouble growing any plant due to light requirements. If you are going with the 2x96w pc, I think that should be plenty.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah Robyn,

I am with Matty, you basically would have his 50, just higher, or my 40 and much higher, or, half the lenght of my 125 and same height.

Albeit I am usually in sink with "the bigger the better", this shape would not be my favorite. Get a longer and deeper one, height is not so important (as in, keep it less heigh).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Matty & LF for the advice on tank sizes. I will consider for a bit longer, but I'm still not sure if I want higher than I have already, which is nearly 18inches. I can't go wider than 18 inches, as I'm limited by the cupboard width it sits on. If the tank remains in the same position, it can't go longer than 36inches - as it is getting too close to the window.

Another reason not to rush in with the decision is that I maybe have tentative permission to buy & set up a 4ft tank (but wider & taller than the 2nd hand one I bought recently - it's a narrow & low tank). Still only a maybe, but I'm not going to rush into a new 3ft if I have any chance of setting up a 4ft.

Just finished water changes on all 3 tanks & it's now 1.30am. Trimmed my riccia for the first time tonight & I am about to attach my harvest to another rock. I had more riccia than I thought. Some of my riccia is a dark green & some is a very light colour. I wonder if tetratech's is the same? I thought the dark growth was java, as I grew my riccia on a java base. On closer inspection on trimming, I can see it is mostly riccia. Riccia leaves (or whatever you call these on moss) are very different to java moss. Strand by strand, I removed most of the underlining java moss & will now use it for the base for the new riccia rock.

One of the anubia plants in this tank is constantly flowering - though really I see little point, as they only last a couple of days. It is only this plant though - none of the others can be bothered it seems.

That's it for now.

EDIT. I think I see improvement since I started adding K2S04. I'm sure I see new growth that doesn't have the holes, but as I hadn't previously trimmed off the effected leaves, I'm not sure. They're trimmed off now - so I should know for sure by next water change.

EDIT no 2: Yay, I have enough riccia to cover 3 additional small rocks - just hope these rocks will get enough light for riccia to grow as well as it did on the front rock.

Cheers
TW

And where is the picture that shows us these new Riccia rocks?

Glad to read that it seems as if your fert correction shows results.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nothing much new in this tank, other than to say my Tenellus and blyxia are going great guns, especially since they are not supposed to in my low light tank. I guess the C02 & the ferts are saving the day. The only criticism of my tenellus is that it multiples where I don't want it to. It had runners growing all through & around the blyxia, but I managed to get it out without uprooting the blyxia.

I am very close to removing all of my stem plants in this tank. My thoughts for the left side are to take all stems out & push my wood with the fern towards the back, have low growing wisteria at the very front & I will have one more try at a red plant in between the wisteria & the wood.

I think Bensaf told me once the name of a red plant that may have a slightly lower light requirement. I'll try to find the name & see if it is available here in Aus.

The right hand side will stay more or less how it's been for a while, although I might try for some bigger rocks than those I have. The current rocks get lost amongst the plants, even though they are low plants. Shame to have touproot the riccia, to move to any new rock - 'cause even that is doing as well as I could expect in my tank.

That's it for now.

Cheers
TW

Took out all my stems at tonight's water change. The only fast grower now is the ground hugging wisteria.

The set up by no means looks complete at the moment - I need some larger rocks for the riccia, as the current ones get lost.

May not do anything for a little while though, due to this development http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/32247.1.htm?0#



Cheers
TW

Here is a full shot of the tank today (day after water change & removal of all stem plants).

In the pic, all the greens of my wisteria, chain sword & riccia all blend together, but in reality, there is a difference, albeit not enough. That's why I'd like some larger rocks to make the divisions clearer.

The tank should be a lot easier to maintain, with the loss of the stems. The riccia, chain sword & Blyxa are all doing so well, I am quite happy with them.

My crypts & anubia though, have green spot algae. This worries me, as I am considering going high light soon in a new tank. Am I just inviting an algae problem if I do?



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Cheers
TW

Here's a close up of my riccia rock. It's ready for another trim

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Cheers
TW

Here's a shot showing the algae that is typically on my anubia & crypts.

What can help here. I already have 5 otos in there (was able to do a head count at last night's water change & they are all present & accounted for).

Any suggestions? Like I said earlier, it concerns me, as I'm considering going hi-light in a soon to come tank and I hope I am not just asking for trouble with the increased WPG.

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Cheers
TW

Thought it was time to introduce the new resident apisto triple red cac. He has settled in well. There are no disputes between him & the Nigerian male - nor anyone one else. He is a very peaceful fellow. He was quick to learn how best to get his share of the food, with all the other greedy & quick eaters in the tank, so I think he will do well. I hope to get him a wife in February.

Blurry shot as usual, but here it is

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Cheers
TW

another

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Cheers
TW

Time for another full tank shot. There is a new plant in the rear left corner. LFS said it's called Willow leaf or something similar (I forget exactly).

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Cheers
TW

Not much has changed. At last night's water change, I removed a lot a chain sword, as it had multiplied & taken over a bit. For the 1st time, some of the remaining chain sword is showing some algae spots

The riccia was trimmed & enough was harvested to cover a new rock.

Blyxa is multiplying as well and a nice thick group has formed from the original 2 plants

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Cheers
TW

I have no advice, I just love seeing beautiful tanks. Just thought I'd let you know.

Robyn,

Looking very healthy there. You say you see spots of algae on the tenellus? What kind of spots? Can it be that you removed so much that you upset the tank stability? And did you replant the remainder or did they stayed in? If replanted then this may be the cause of the algae as they will need to re-settle.

Otherwise, very nice, soon you will have soo much Riccia that you can sell it

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice Robyn!

It's interesting that your Riccia grows well (much better than mine) even with less light. I'm starting to think my water might be too soft for some plants I have.

I would love to see some thin branchy pieces of wood poking out from under the fern and coming over the new riccia rock and some of the other plants near the front. It would really give the tank some nice constrast and add'l depth.

My Scapes

Wow, 3 visitors !!! Thanks to all for popping in.

fish patty, thanks for such a nice comment. Much appreciated.

LF, Well the spots are closer to black than green & they are on my anubia & crypts as well. It doesn't come off when rubbed with finger. I don't remember if it was there (or not) prior to tenellus thinning, but was there the next night. BTW, the spots were on the anubia & crypts prior to the thinning. No tenellus was replanted - what remains is as it was. I removed about 5 good sized plants & around 15 smaller ones. Still plenty there & very little free gravel at all in the tank. I was just making sure none of the riccia & blyxa weren't shaded. My tenellus grows great, but tries to take over the tank & would do so if given the chance.

Hi Tetra, yes I'm amazed too that the riccia, blyxa & tenellus all grow so well. I have more that double the riccia I started with, at least 4 times as much blyxa & I just have to keep getting rid of tenellus. Maybe C02 is more important than lights to these plants I continue to have no success with red plants though - any I trial die.

Thanks for scaping advice too, but all my tanks are on holding mode at the moment. I am waiting for hubby to pay me out for a bet I won & the winnings will be used to upgrade all my tanks. This tank will close down shortly & become a 36" x 19" tank & all plants & fish will transfer across. I already have the eco complete, eheim cannister filter & compact PC lighting sitting in the garage. (Wish I'd read your recent discussion in LF's log - seems you are all moving towards the idea of T5HO's being better than PC's). It also seems that I only need stronger lights if I want red plants (which I do).

So, once hubby comes up the winnings I'll be starting from scratch (scape wise) and looking for lots of suggestions like yours.

Anyway, thanks again for all popping in.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Take your time with the redo, you are in no rush as the tank looks nice as it is

Anyway, my Anubias have once in a while blackish, or dark brownish, spots on them. I assume it is a form of algae that actually does not spread all that fast. My first set of Anubias that I added to that tank about 30 weeks ago developed such spots right away, I assume because the plant mass in the tank was not sufficient. I had them a long time ago in the 125 as well and it was suggested to me that the only way to remove the spotted parts is to remove the leaves.

Also, I am not certain anymore, in particular because of the discussion in my thread, if I would really like to have the T5s.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi LF

Take your time with the redo, you are in no rush as the tank looks nice as it is

I will & thanks for the tank compliment.

I wonder if I'm doing the right thing, because I do like the tank as it is. In real life, it is a little nicer than the pics show. My camera (as said many times) is not that great & green just looks green (no contrast in shade). Actually there are many shades of green in there, so even without red, I do have more contrast than shows up.

Being a worrier, I wonder what troubles I'll bring into the new tank, as I'll have increased light. Am I just inviting a big algae mess - all for the sake of a red plant here or there? Maybe I should have just thrown in a red plastic plant & pretended.

But no, the light has been bought & it won't fit over this tank - it would overhang each side. The reason I didn't just convert this tank (like I did with the 23.7G) is that it is not a standard length & I couldn't get a light fitting to fit it's length.

I'm both looking forward to and a little scared of the change over plans.

Back to the black spot - I think my plant mass is sufficient. Another factor is that I was away from home from 2 Feb until 19 Feb & there were no ferts or traces going in the tank while I was gone - so maybe this is the reaction to that. Some anubia spotting was present before I went away, but not on the tenellus.

Thanks for dropping in LF.

Cheers
TW

I'm both looking forward to and a little scared of the change over plans.

Happens to me all the time

You never know if a change is for the better or worse. A good plan on what you want to do and how to manage to get there goes a long way. Spur of the moment changes are the worst, let me tell you

Another factor is that I was away from home from 2 Feb until 19 Feb & there were no ferts or traces going in the tank while I was gone

- If it didn't cause it, it for sure didn't help either. What about light and such? Was that as it always is?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

If it didn't cause it, it for sure didn't help either. What about light and such? Was that as it always is?

Lighting schedule & C02 were on their usual schedule & I had someone feed the fish. It seemed like too much to ask for them to fertilise as well.

I am lucky the fish minder didn't make the same error on this tank, as on the 20G. At first I couldn't understand why the 20G was so filthy compared to the other 2 - until I discovered the lights had been on 24/7 for who knows how long. There's an over-ride switch on timer, so if you want lights on when the timer has turned them off, you flick the over-ride switch & lights are back on. In that mode, the timer can't turn the lights back off though.

The minder switched the over-ride on & forgot to turn it off again. I don't know how long lights were left on - it must have been quite a while though. I came back to a tank where my anubias will never look the same again - unless I trim off nearly all the leaves. Besides that, the tank was just plain filthy from the algae, but not so bad that one water change & a good cleaning of glass didn't sort it out. Except for the anubias, which look very sad. A little annoying as quite a few were newly added.

Just glad it didn't happen in this tank.

Cheers
TW

Well,

First to this tank: when lights and CO2 were kept as usual, and no ferts where added for two weeks, plus unknown amounts of food added, that should do it for the algae.

The 20G story seems really bad, I don't know if I would use this minder ever again . But we have to take whoever is available

I have a timer that can be overwritten as well, but as soon as it hits the next interval setting it will revert to "normal". In this case, the worst would be one night with the lights on, or one day with the lights off. Look around for these types of timers, here in the US they are about $10 to $15 in the hardware store.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I don't know if I would use this minder ever again . But we have to take whoever is available

Well, what can I say. The minder was my 18yr old daughter, who tried hard & reported to me daily on my fishes activites. It was the 1st time this worried mother hen left her at home (although not alone - her 25yr old step-sister was with her - she was in charge of her Dad's marine tank).

I've made a multitude of mistakes over my short fish keeping career, and as you say, we have to take whoever is available.

That timer sounds good. I have not seen one like it, but will keep my eye out for one now.

Cheers
TW

*shakes fish at 18yr old daughter*

I say disown her!

J/K...I just saw that pic on the last page....looks great robyn! I'm very impressed. Sorry to hear about your other tank though.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi Matty, thanks for stopping by

And thanks for the nice compliment About the other tank - it's ok now, except for annubia.

I haven't seen an update from your tanks in a little while. Anything much happening? I read in one of LF's log that you are still having bad luck with fish, so I was sad to read that. Hope things pick up soon.

Cheers
TW

No, nothing really happening there. I've been too busy with school and life. I wanted to get it nice again, but haven't gotten to it. I'm just giving it minimal care. The few fish left get fed sparingly, the plants get trimmed and the water gets changed when I can, been about a month on that. Don't see a need for it though.

Thanks for asking, maybe next week (spring break) will see some action.

Oh, and I talked to one of the neighbors in the same building and he's having very similar problems with his fish. I might try to start mixing with 50% RO/DI on water changes if maybe the tap water is a problem.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi,
"Spring Break?" You actually get a break? Heck every
Spring Break I had, found me out in the boonies somewhere
chasing rock formations and writing a thesis on them.
Of course the paper was due the first day of class after
the resumption of classes so there was no putting it off.
Never did get to go to Florida, but then Susan probably
would have had something to say about that too. Come to
think of it.. I could have done one on Karst Topography
and researched it in FL. Durn!
Lucky...
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Fl. has good Karst Topography? That would be pretty cool to study. Sinkholes, caves, underground rivers...pretty sweet.

I'm not going to fully enjoy my spring break in Florida or anything like that. but I do get a week off, and though I have work to do, no way I'm going to spend the whole break doing work. I'll play catch up with my two tanks and sleep in good. Can't really afford florida anyways.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I'm trying to show the pearling on my riccia tonight (and it's not water change night - that's tomorrow). The little bubbles are all over it - too bad the pics don't show it. I wonder if anyone other than me can see it, but it is there (really it is)

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

another try. Hmmm, it's no better either

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Was trying not to change much until the new tank, but the blyxa had multiplied so much & was shading itself. To get to the light, it had started to lift itself out of the substrate. I removed most of the blyxa, so I could separate the new plants & I find that from the one single plant I bought, I have around 30 now. to make room for them, the creeping wisteria had to go - as it was positioned in one of the better areas for light in the tank.

It is getting a little crowded in there (plant wise) but I hope not to have to throw much out, as I will need extra plants for the slightly bigger floor plate of the new tank.

Cheers
TW

I see a fwe bubbles there Robyn. Very nice. I love all youse guys with your pearling riccia. Somebody needs to get you a little better camera. Wouldn't even have to be much$$ just a decent p and s.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Here is the latest pic & I'm embarrassed to see that I should have cleaned the glass first. The riccia is looking a bit blunt & short, but that because I trimmed it last night. the 4 rocks at the front are all new and the ricca was harvested from other rocks, which are now further back and not visible in this picture.

Still in holding mode in this tank, as it's closure is getting closer now. Replacement tank has been ordered.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Like most other people, I assume, I first looked at the picture and was in shock



I thought you had a huge algae outbreak on the right side, but I am glad to read that this is on your glass

The tank looks very nice though,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

thought you had a huge algae outbreak on the right side, but I am glad to read that this is on your glass

I got tired & lazy at the end of Wednesday nights water change. After cleaning the 20G & then the discovery of eggs in 23G slowed the night down somewhat. Being a hopeless fish netter, everything had to be removed from the tank so I could net those pesky krib juveniles for removal. Whether it is their extreme youth, I don't know. But they were just so darn fast & much quicker darters than any other fish I've had to catch. By the time I made it to the 43G, I was tired and so I did little other than water change & harvest riccia (which couldn't wait - it was about to break free and float).

Having said that, I am getting black algae (grows in little tuffs) as well as algae on some anubia leaves. It scares me a little, as what will happen when all goes to my new tank with the much stronger light.

Oh well, time will tell I guess.

Cheers
TW

Where do you get the black algae (which I assume is BBA, as your description seems to fit)? Quite a few people I know have it, including myself. For most of us, it grows in areas of higher water flow and overall seems not to invade a tank too fast. I have on a few occasions "spot-treaded" the tank (40G) with Excel, and somehow that worked wonders. It was a different process than what I used to do in the past. I simply took a dropper and sucked up about 3ml of Excel. Then, while doing a water change (as that is the time when I turn off the filter, aka no current in the tank) and the water is at the low point, just before refilling, I squirt the dropper into the BBA slowly (that part was still submersed, not above the water line). And that was it! I could not believe myself how effective it was, within two days the BBA turned red and on the following weekend it was gone (from that spot, of course, I still have some in other spots).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the BBA Excel trip LF. I tried it here & in the 23G, where the algae was much worse - complete with long & flowing green hair algae. This tip worked really well on both types of algae.

By accident, this tank has been re organised slightly on the right hand side. To remove my Apisto Blue Steels, I had to take all the wood & rocks out of the tank & the right hand side didn't go back together quite they way it was. The anubia is now more visible. I only put back a small portion of the chain sword & only one of the Java Ferns. The Java will probably be a little slower to grow back but the chain sword tends to take over very quickly - so it shouldn't be long for re-growth there. It's not very different, but for a comparison, the before shot is a few posts further up.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the reason for the Blue Steel's removal.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the female, plus a shot of my Blyxa. I had my first floating Blyxa last week, but being lazy, I left it floating for a quite a few days. It grew some roots while floating and has now been successfully replanted.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

here's the male.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Very nice Robyn,

That's a double or triple red, right?

The tank looks ok, but somehow, with it being less planted (until it regrows), I find the red rocks too red and too much visible. And it seems like they need a hair cut as well .

In the last shot there were 4 Riccia tops, now there are 3 larger ones. What happened to #4?

Glad the Excel worked, now keep an eye open for re-occurence.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That's a double or triple red, right?

Sold as a double, but there is some red on dorsal, tail & anal fin. Not that much on the anal - but it is there. Not quite as pretty a pattern of red as my previous, but this one's dorsal fins are more spikey so are impressive that way (doesn't show in my pic). First time I've had a male display to his girl too (it's always the other way around) but he definitely flairs, plus shimmies at her too. I don't expect eggs or fry to survive in this tank.

I agree with all your criticisims and it's the same old story that I don't feel like doing all that much to this tank as it's will be pulled down shortly. My new tank is probably ready for delivery now (I've been away a few days). Before I set it up, I've got to get a tradesman out to reinforce my cupboards - so that will be another delay.

All ricca rocks are still there - maybe too low or towards the back - but they're there.

I soon have to plan planting of the new tank - but will be limited by my large wood /fern - takes up a lot of space. Thinking about which red plant (finally a red plant) I will grow. I have no idea how to run C02 off a cannister, so later I will be asking for advice. I have one of those glass tulip things to use for C02 in the new tank - another mystery.

So with all these thoughts, I haven't been too excited about redesigning this tank.

Cheers
TW

Makes sense Robyn. A red plant, as in a tall stem red plant? I do like my Alterhanthera reineckii quite a bit. I have a shot of my street from today, but given that I don't update my weekly event until tomorrow I can show it here as well.

And we will worry about the CO2 whenever you are ready for it, but what is that tulip thing you speak of? A glass diffuser?

Ingo

Attached Image:

Alterhanthera reineckii

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

I think the tank looks good. I'm still amazed at how full the Blyxa is growing with only 1.6 wpg. I forget, how deep is your tank? I assume there is a pretty good root system on them. I could never get a good root system going on mine. I'm thinking it might be the light penetration of the 6700k cf bulbs.



My Scapes

Alterhanthera reineckii

Very nice plant. I will see if I can find it. Probably more chance on line, than in store. Fingers crossed.

what is that tulip thing you speak of? A glass diffuser

Yes, the glass diffuser. I got this one on ebay as part of a spare C02 system purchase I made. I never set up the spare system (using gas bottle as one of 3 that I rotate on this tank) so the glass diffuser is waiting for the new tank. I have no clue how to run C02 through it or the cannister. I'll get serious & ask for help later though - no point now when I'm not ready to do it - dopey me will just forget

Hi tetratech - thanks for popping in.

I'm still amazed at how full the Blyxa is growing with only 1.6 wpg.

Me too. Makes me wonder if I'm doing the right thing with the new tank plants (high light & eco complete). It might bring me red crinkled blyxa that floats & won't stay rooted as well as cory with damaged barbels. I put the success of the blyxa and the ricca down to C02, but I have ricca in my low tech tank (low light, no C02) and my ricca is thriving there too.


Cheers
TW

I didn't think I'd post again in this tank, before closing it down. But, as I bought a new discus, I thought I just might as well. He is meant to a Marlborough Red, but he is much more yellow than others I googled on the net. Maybe this means he is a poor specimen - but I think he's pretty anyway. I've ordered 2 friends for him. This tank will shut down shortly & all will move into a 89G (339 L). For this reason, I haven't bothered too much about the actual scape at moment.



Cheers
TW

Robyn I'm very jealous. I've always put the scape before the fish, but I do have a soft spot for Discus. Maybe one day. That is a beautiful fish and I'm sure she/he will do well in the 89G.

My Scapes

I am looking in my Christal Ball and I see "many many water changes for Robyn"

Looking nice Robyn, maybe he/she will color up soon. About adding two buddies: could this cause conflicts if two of them pair up?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am looking in my Christal Ball and I see "many many water changes for Robyn

Yes I do see that in Robyn's future as well as other things including temp, filtration and algae control.

My Scapes

Thanks for the replies Ingo & Jeff

About adding two buddies: could this cause conflicts if two of them pair up?

I visit another forum specifically dedicated to Discus. It has a small sub forum on apistos, which is what drew me to their site. Now I have a discus, I've popped into the main discus forum for advice. They tell me I need a minimum of 3 discus (schooling fish). 2 might cause aggression, but 3 should be ok (I hope). I will have to watch what happens with a pairing though.

maybe he/she will color up soon

You know my bad photo's Ingo. He/she is actually very pretty as is. A beautiful brilliant yellow colour (think of the SW fish - the Yellow Tang), with sort of a dusting of red over the yellow body. More red towards the body outline. Fins are red with black. Those on the the discus forum told me he looks young & should get more red as he matures. But I hope not - I like him better this way.

Yes I do see that in Robyn's future as well as other things including temp, filtration and algae control.

Well, I'll have to see how the water changes go. Some on the discus forum do small changes twice a week, but a lot also just do the weekly change. For the moment, I'll stick with the weekly, & see how it goes. I'm aware I might have to up it. The new filter will be a eheim Pro II 2028, so I hope that will be enough. There will be a 25W UV filter - so I hope that helps with algae & disease.

Tetratech - why do you particulary see algae issues. Is there something about discus & increased algae???

As far as temp goes, below is my stock list & temps as per profiles here on FP:-

Discus 28-31C
Boesmani Rainbow 27-30C
Platy 18-25C
Harlequin Rasbora 22-25C
Sterbai Cory 21-26C
Apistogramma 23C-29C (varies depending on which apisto you're looking at)

I guess the ones to worry about are the sterbai, platy & rasboras. I will have to watch them. I have set the temp to 28C for the moment.

BTW, Jeff. I received my petrified wood yesterday. A bit disappointed with the amount. I was the winning bidder on 6 sep auctions, but only received 5 rocks. I've sent a query asking why. Maybe, he went by the total weight of my winning bid. I'll take a pic of them later to see what you think.

Thanks again for popping in.

Cheers
TW

Tetratech - why do you particulary see algae issues. Is there something about discus & increased algae???

All I mean is that Discus are meaty fish as are other cichlids and they have more waste than smaller tetras, so naturally there is more potential algae problems if filtration and lights aren't in check.

Looking forward to seeing your petrified wood. BTW Don't let us two Geezers (LF and Me) scare you with the Discus. It's all good and I'm sure you will do fine with them. I would really like to have some myself. There is a store not to far from me (Aqua Hut) that sells a wide variety of Discus at unbelivably low prices. As I said maybe one day.

My Scapes

Don't let us two Geezers (LF and Me) scare you with the Discus.

So true, I am just jealous

No really, there are a few more challenges involved when having discus, as mentioned above, but I have no doubt that you will be able to handle it.

About the water conditions/changes: As you have a tendency to attempt breeding (see your Apistos), water conditions should be super.

One thing we have not talked about is the stress on plants in heigher temperatures. I know one guy who was able to grow all kinds of stuff, loads of lights on his tank, the reddest and fullest macandras (for example) the world has ever seen. All went downhill with the discuss, the temp was just to high for the plants to thrive. I don't know too many details, but it may be worthwhile researching which plants do well in 82F ++ (which is about 28C, right? ).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn , Thats a very beautifull looking fish , and I think you are right to keep them in odd numbers . Tends to spread any aggression out.
Are you getting 1 Male and 2 females ? Any thoughts of trying to breed them ?

Hope the new tank goes well for you as well .
Garry

Ooohhhh, a discus in a planted tank I'm going to be watching this thread closely now to see how it works out with you. My plans are that after I get back from my summer vacation (1 month tour down the eastcoast of the USA) I'll tear my big tank apart and rebuild it into a planted Discus tank I've wanted to keep Discus all my aquarium life and always have been a bit afraid of them but since my wife has laid her eyes on a couple she's been urging me to get them.

As for the temperature, my plants have been growing fine at 28 degrees Celsius, going much higher than that slowly becomes problematic and growth slows down a bit and you'll have a good time to keep algae away. In any case, I really want you to succeed with this

Robyn:

Congrats on the discus! Don't worry too much about water changes and the alleged sensitivity of these fish. If you stick to your good maintenance schedule they will be fine. I was scared when I got my first discus and was constantly hovering over the tank with test kits and buckets to perform water changes. I perform now weekly water changes as I did before and the discus are doing extremely well. In fact, I find them less sensitive than my Cories

The biggest 'problem' might arise from feeding but this is also entirely dependent on the type of food you provide. I feed some pellets that the fish were raised on by the breeder and a variety of frozen foods (a special discus formula, blood worms, glass worms, brine shrimp). If you do not rinse the thawed food you will get some gunk in your tank, so keep that in mind. Occassionally I feed beef heart and THAT is an unbelievable mess which impacts water quality.

you are going to shut down this tank entirely? You are not suffering from MTS?

I am looking forward to read about your new tank.

I agree about the sensitivity of discus. We have quite a few in the store that live comfortably in hard water and weekly water changes. Wild caught discus might be a separate story though, but no worrie there for you. With the large plant mass, I'm sure you'll still have to add nitrates. Lovely fish BTW.

The tank looks great, I can't wait to see the new setup.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Wow, lots of visitors. Thanks y'all for popping in

So true, I am just jealous

Ah, but I know you're not. Was almost too scared to show you, as I know "Big Fish" aren't your thing Whilst I'd love discus fry LF, this is the community tank & never one baby has survied that tank. If it happened, good - but I doubt it. Not planning any special action to encourage breeding.

I hope the temp for my plants (at least my current plants) should be fine. Our summer heat sends my tanks up to 30C. With the aid of small fans, I can get it down to 28C. This tank is on the warmest side of the house, so it always creeps the highest. Of course in the new tank, I want to try a red plant, so I'll be disappointed if it won't grow in a discus tank.

Dr. Bonke, you're getting discus too. For some reason, I thought you had them already.

growing fine at 28 degrees Celsius, going much higher than that slowly becomes problematic and growth slows down a bit and you'll have a good time to keep algae away

Are you able to pls give me a bit of extra info on what you mean re "problematic" and "good time to keep algae away". The more tips I can get on the get go, the better.

Hi catdancer - welcome to my log. I'd been reading up on this beefheart stuff, found recipes & was about to rush out & buy the meat mincer. But you only sometimes feed beefheart & your discus are happy? If it's so messy & they're fine without it, I'd rather keep things simple. Do you think they need it? I feed a mixture of spectrum, fresh & frozen brineshrimp & frozen bloodworms. I'm always supper fussy about rinsing the frozen food.

you are going to shut down this tank entirely? You are not suffering from MTS?

Not sure that's true I have a total of 3 tanks (if you don't count 2 betta tanks & hubby's marine). If it was up to me, this tank would not shut down, but hubby only lets me go so far. The trade off to get 2 larger tanks was a firm promise to shut down 2 current tanks. The other tank I planning is 4ft African.

After being told on a discus forum I need a min of 3 discus, 2 new ones are acclimatising now. The old boy is up saying hello to his new mates in the bag. Hope they'll be mates (as in buddies).

Thanks for comments Matty. Glad to hear your LFS finds them not too sensitive. I can't wait for the new setup either - having trouble finding someone to fix my cupboard first. Now that you've brought up the subject of adding nitrates .....

Does anyone think I need to alter my fert schedule, with 3 discus in there. I currently dose:-

1/2tspn KN03 & 1/16 tspn KH2P04 & 1/16 tspn K2S04 - 3 times a week
10ml flourish & 4ml Flourish iron - 3 times a week

Tetratech, I'll post pics of the petrified wood later.

That's it for now.

Cheers
TW

The new guys have been in the tank a couple of hours now. I briefly turned the lights on to get pics. They have coloured up 100% from when I first saw them - this one in particular. Much redder than the original fish. This one is out & about, but the other one is hiding in the back, so I hope he'll be okay. No pics of the hiding one yet.



This shot show the original, who is much less red. I though he was pretty until I saw this one. There is a bit of chasing by the original one against this one - but not constant so I hope it sorts out. More concerned about the one who is hiding.


Below are the pieces of petrified wood I bought on ebay for the new setup.


That's it for now.

Cheers
TW

I will say more later, but for now I only have time for a quick entry (phone conference coming up):

the last piece of wood looks like a bone that a dog had chewed up

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
Those sure look like tiny pieces of wood TW. They must
be selling the chips by the pound.

Beautiful fish TW and great looking tank!
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Robyn,

I don't think you'll have to worry too much, but I can explain a bit more about the trouble I meant. Last year I installed a couple of extra T5 lamps in my tank (2x 55w) and didn't really give it much extra thought. The first day my plants were pearling like never before and I was thought I had a winner, but then within a few days that stopped and growth seemed to halt. At that point also quite a few different kinds of algae started growing rather excessively. I watched that for about a week or so, to see whether there would be improvement and then during the water change I thought the awater was kinda warm. I then checked the thermometer and it turned out to be nearly 33 degrees Celsius. That was clearly too high (I was surprised that none of my fish had died). Since then I've installed some ventilators to get the heat out of the hood, and that keeps the temperature at about 27-28. With proper care - meaning weekly water changes and fertilization - the plants grow really well (right now my big tank is a bit of a mess since I am leaving for a month vacation and have switched off CO2 and stopped fertizing).

You should be just fine

Hi catdancer - welcome to my log. I'd been reading up on this beefheart stuff, found recipes & was about to rush out & buy the meat mincer. But you only sometimes feed beefheart & your discus are happy? If it's so messy & they're fine without it, I'd rather keep things simple. Do you think they need it?

My pleasure, you will see me more often and I hope that you will visit my log (to be posted soon) as well. My discus are extremely happy judged by their behaviour. Not shy at all, quite the opposite and always attacking food! I think the beef heart recipes and the legend that discus need this food in order to thrive originates from the earlier ages of discus keeping when commercial foods were not such high quality and frozen, fortefied foods not readily available. Look at it this way: what are the chances that a discus in the wild will dine on a cow? This type of food satisfied the need for high protein and very little fat. All my frozen foods are fortefied (Hikari) with vitamins to ensure all nutritional requirements are met. A lot of breeders in my club feed most of the time pellets and occassionally frozen food. Some never ever beef heart because it is so messy. BTW - my discus don't even like it. What I always pay attention to is that my fish get some veggie components with their diet - also frozen. So, if you are into preparing your own food, well, go for it, but you really don't have to IMHO.

The new guy looks beautiful. How big is this discus already? I would not worry about the one hiding - it might take this one a bit to adjust to the new environment, probably they were raised in bare bottom tanks only with lots of other discus. It was very apparent that mine had no clue about plants, pretty funny to watch them doing their first excursions of the tank!

glad to hear that you are also MTS ... I always enjoy hearing that others suffer the same affliction!

And no, the rock does not look like a chewed on bone more like an attempt at wood working! *rofl

Hi Ingo - - yeah I can see it, but a riccia cap should take care of that.

Hi Frank - Thanks for tank & fish compliment They're smaller than I thought & yes, they were being sold by the pound. This pic gives a better guage of size - it's taken dry, whereas the pics yesterday were taken with the wood wet. Not sure how if or how I'll use them. Hoping to get Jeff's opinion, as he is the petrified wood expert. (Jeff, if you do pop in, pls scroll backwards where there are individual shots of the wood)


Hi Dr Bonke. Thanks for the info. My new tank won't have a hood, so hopefully I won't get the same problem when I up my lighting to compact PC's. I never did find any light fittings here in Aus that have those fans I hear some of you talk about. I'm tempted to not use the glass lids on the new tank at all.

Hi catdancer. Let us know when your log is up (in case I miss it). I think I will give the beef heart recipe a miss for the time being. Glad we spoke. I use hikari vitamin enriched frozen foods too. I haven't seen the veggie one - what is it called? They were all soled as 8cm, but I think the first guy is smaller & the new ones are larger - but none larger than 8cm.

Today, they are hanging around together like the 3 amigos, & I hope it stays that way. They have settled in a lot better than the 1st one did on his own. They all came out to eat straight away - no hiding. Now, prepare to be bored as I have taken a few shots. catdancer, as a discus owner, I'm wondering if you can tell the sex by any of the pics. I don't really care, but I'm just curious, is all.


That's it for now

Cheers
TW

I believe you will be just fine with your round fish. The discus at my local store get water changes about once a week dependent on my work schedule. Our water is liquid rock with a pH of about 8. The discus are fine with this. I know some people that have spawning discus is similar water.

As for food. See if you can get your hands on live black worms. Your discus will go nuts for them!



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Just a guess but I think the light one and the dark one are Males. They seem to have longer fins. They are still young though so it will be hard to tell. I am sure someone out there can help you out though.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi Wingsdlc

Thanks for the visit & the thoughts on sexing them. How old do you think they are?

My C02 takes care of the pH & my water is soft - but I do wonder about the spike in pH I get if my C02 runs out just after I leave for work. When that happens, in the course of the day it can rise from 6.5 to nearly 7.5pH.

Thanks for the live black worm tip. Yes, I can get my hands on them - but I thought they were the ones that can bring in parasites. Or am I thinking of something else?

Cheers
TW

but I thought they were the ones that can bring in parasites

You know I am not so sure about that. I guess they could... I have never seen any issues from the ones at work but who knows.

How old do you think they are?

Not really the guy to ask.

PM Bob Wesolowski

He is good with discus.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi Robyn:

Great pictures of your discus and what a nice tank! I am looking forward to follow your new set up. As for my log - as soon as I have this paper out.

Food: I am experimenting with veggie food as I have not found one yet that contains a good mix! One that is available in frozen form is "Cichlid delight" from San Francisco Brand and it contains Spirulina, Turkey heart (here we go ...) and some othe ingredients. I am cutting the cubes into tiny pieces as the meat sticks together making the lumps too big for the fish. Another one I have now (recommended by my LFS) is by Formula Two and it is strictly veggie - I mix it with Bloodworms.

As for sexing discus, I am not aware that it is actually possible to do so when not spawning as the genital papillae is not visible. Fins are IMHO no indicator as they vary greatly from strain to strain - there are plenty of high fin varieties out there. My fish don't get live food - too much to worry about re parasites and other 'silent travelers' that might get introduced into the tank, but that is me!

Hi,
The cautions about plants and increased temperatures are
valid. Arizona Gardens has a "Package" of plants that they
recommend for specifically for Discus tanks.
Here is the link:
http://www.azgardens.com/habitats_discus.php

I'd write down the names, and quantities of the various
plants and either purchase a package of them for your
tank, or look for them through other sources. The thing
is, this lists the plants and quantities for your size
tank, and for the temperatures that you will be running.
It could help save you some headaches later on.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

I have not really noticed any harm done to my plants with high temps. We do not run AC in our house and it has gotten up to around 90 inside. I know its warmer than the tank should really get but nothing has gone into melt down.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Robyn , Glad to here that all is well with these beautifull fellas . They look magnificent . I'm sure they will bring you hours of enjoyment .

I look forward to learning more about Discus from your log . Always been afraid to have a go at them due to their delicate reputation .

Are you planning any tank mates in the new tank .?

Garry

Robyn,

Wow, what can I say those Discus are beautiful. I'm seeing some in my future

Actually the rocks look pretty good and interesting. You have to kinda play with them and stick him into the substrate. That one that Ingo described as a chewed-up dog bone, could actually look very interesting in the foreground possibily buried under substrate at the low point. But as I said you have to kinda move them around and see what appeals to you and works with your setup.

My Scapes

The only problem I see is that all the attention will be taken from your hard work with the plants and be on the discus instead.

What, this is the planted forum right.... Really beautiful discus Robyn. Good luck with them.

I agree with the blackworm idea the ones in our store love them. I've never heard much about parasites with them either. Just be careful with the feedings....I know how slow discus are to realize there's food in front of their face and blackworms can drown.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hi Wings, It must only be in Aus that blackworms have this reputation - though catdancer also says no live food for her tanks due to "parasites & silent travellers". I haven't pm'd Bob Wesolowski about the age, but I will. Thanks for the tip.

Hi Catdancer - thanks for heads-up on food. I haven't seen all the frozen foods you mention, though we get hikari. So far, they have pretty much ignored all food except frozen bloodworms. I hope to get them eating Spectrum soon - but no luck so far.

Hi Frank - thanks for the link. I'll keep just in case. Fairly confident I'll be ok though. Like Wings, in summer my tanks sit naturally at 28/ 29C & all plants grow like mad & no algae issues. This may change with the higher lights I plan. A group of plant nerds on a discus forum agreed no issues if temp kept as above. Still, it's good to be forewarned & have a list of plants, just in case. I'm determined to have at least 1 red plant - as that's the whole reason for this tanks impending demise (so I can fit stronger lights - not possible in this lousy tank). Not as many choices here for red plants as you have in US. More on my choices later, when I'm ready to purchase.

Garry - thanks for visit & fish complements. What I've been hearing is these guys aren't as sensitive as we've been led to believe. Hope so anyway. Hope I manage to give them a long & happy life. Tankmates - well, the apistos will move into a divided breeding tank. I love my 2 B.Rainbows, but think they're too boisterous for discus, so may have to go. They're such great mates & I love them too, so torn what to do. Hate to think of them in either a bare LFS tank or in anyone else's unsuitable tank. Might ask LFS if they'd be prepared to put them in their planted display tank - not sure of my chances. The harley rasboras have always been a fav of mine. They seem to be doing well here - but temp is too high according to their profile. Given that my tank reaches high temps in summer anyway, it may not be such a problem. Undecided what I should do with them. I've been told cardinals are good with discus. The otos will tfr over & I think I have room for 3 more discus, using calculations discus forum gave me for stocking (1 adult discus per 45litres). Maybe I might up the cory sterbai's or go with the false juli, like Ingo. There's a lone platy in current tank, so I he'll transfer across too. That's it for fish. Pretty much know what I like now.

Hi tetratech - thanks for discus compliment. Glad you like the rocks too. Glad dog/bone rocks passed muster. What about rock in 1st pic - that's my fav. Wonder if I should ask the guy to pick out some similar to dog/bone & 1st pic - but slightly bigger ?? Not sure how many I'll need for new setup. I'm stuck using the windelov wood & that takes up a large piece of real estate (too much).

What, this is the planted forum right

Hi matty - yeah I know. I'll be back on track with plants (& fish) once I start new setup. Yes - discus are slow to realise food is there (one of the reasons the b.rainbows might have to go). Doesn't matter how many different spots I drop in the food so the discus get some, those rainbows are everywhere & get there first. They must have food radar

Anyway - that's enough for now.

Cheers
TW

Ingo

It's not quite the same name as yours, nor quite as pretty. Yours is called "Alterhanthera reineckii". Is this the same plant, or another related plant? http://www.aquaticdreams.com.au/product.asp?ProductID=507 Plant is referred to as "Telanthera" in the main heading, but in the descriptive text it's referred to as a Alternathera species, which is close to your spelling.

Edit: Ok - think I got it now. Seems it's also known as Red Temple. http://www.aquariumsuppliesaustralia.com.au/store/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=861

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn , Sounds like you've got your tankmates figured out pretty well . I tend to agree with you on the Rainbows .
The Harleys are great aren't they gotta love them .

I've become very partial to a lot of other Tetra types of recent times. Rummynoses in particular are a lot of fun as well as Columbians and Bleeding Hearts .
I know some people think that some of the bigger Tetras are a little nippy but I haven't found that .

Anyway just a couple of thoughts . Can't wait to see the new tank take shape .

Enjoy
Garry

some of the bigger Tetras are a little nippy but I haven't found that

Sorry a head of time about the little side track...

Speaking of nippy tetras... Yesterday at work I was cleaning tanks and got bit about 110 times by the blind cave tetras. Crazy little nippy fish! Good thing they are just little fish unlike the piranhas.

discus are slow to realise food is there

They might be a little slower than some other fish but our little discus at work are pigs!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Still not planning to change my water changing routine, unless I hit problems with the discus. But... just so I know what to do in case I have to. Would I need to make changes to the EI fert routine when doing 2 x 25% (or 2 x 50%) changes instead of 1 x 50%? Or, would I still keep to the same schedule & just ignore the increased frequency of water changes?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Cheers
TW

Still not planning to change my water changing routine, unless I hit problems with the discus. But... just so I know what to do in case I have to. Would I need to make changes to the EI fert routine when doing 2 x 25% (or 2 x 50%) changes instead of 1 x 50%? Or, would I still keep to the same schedule & just ignore the increased frequency of water changes?

If you do end up doing the 2 x 25% or 2 x 50% that will probably mess with your EI a bit.

I would guess you could end up doing something like this:


60 – 80 Gallon Aquariums
Day one:
50% water change
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03
+/- 3/16 tsp KH2P04

Day two:
+/- ¼ tsp (15ml) Trace

Day three:
day off

Day four:
50% water change
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03
+/- 3/16 tsp KH2P04

Day five:
+/- ¼ tsp (15ml) Trace

Day six:
+/- 3/4 tsp KN03
+/- 3/16 tsp KH2P04

Day seven:
day off

Start over....
Just my guess. I am sure others will have better ideas..

When dosing also remember that you are going to have some fish with much higher waste than tetras or other small fish.

Also watch your Discus for stress after dosing ferts. They may not be used to the chemicals and it could stress them out. I have ran into that with the discus at work.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
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Robyn:

How is it going with your discus? Did they start eating other types of food than bloodworms?

Thanks Wings, I'll keep that info just in case I need it.

Any other thoughts would still be appreciated.

Hi catdancer - not really. Won't eat the spectrum. One of them joined in on mystis shrimp (???spelling) but passed it up tonight. I still think it's the B.Rainbows. I'm going to have to try to catch them on the weekend - but that will probably stress the discus as well, given that I usually have to pull the tank apart to catch a fish.

Cheers
TW

Seems to be a more general problem and related to what the fish were fed by the breeder. My discus come from different sources and I had also considerable problems to wean them of bloodworms, which is still a delicacy for them. Brine shrimp was the next food of choice - and Tetra Color Bits. This granule type food is the staple in the diet of all the breeders in my club, but even the discus that I got from Europe took it immediately.

good luck

Have decided to gradually over the next little while to gradually increase the discus to 6, which I think will be fully stocked for the new tank (if they were adults). As juveniles, they are fine in this tank.

Here is discus no. 4 for the tank, still in the plastic bag. I think is probably isn't the best looking specimen, because the rim around his eye isn't fully red. But best for me to start off with the less expensive fellows anyway. He is called a Fire Ruby, according to LFS.

I also removed the B.Rainbow & hope it will help the others feel more confident to eat.

I'm beginning to be tempted to change my plans for a 4ft African tank into another hi-tech planted, but with discus. Love these fish

Cheers
TW

Nice new Discus. I like the color pattern that it has.

It really looks like someone has the round fish bug!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi Wings, yes I have it bad After reading everything I could find on-line & in hard books, I think I'm best to get them all around the same size & not let leave too long a gap in between additions - so the latecomers aren't picked on, due to being "Johnnie come lately's". I can't wait to see him once the lights are turned on - but that won't be until tomorrow.He was quite cheap too (might be because of his eye not having the solid red coloured ring). That's okay by me, though. So far, all seems friendly in there.

Also picked up a pair of Apistogramma Hongsloi Form II for another tank.

Cheers
TW

http://www.amtra.de/images/apistogrammatorf0903_550.jpg
If yours looks like this then that is a sweet fish!

Adding fish about the same size is a good rule to play by.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi Wings - yes that's him. Was a day to late to get a pair of Apistogramma sp.Viejita Form II. Is that the same as LF's? LFS imported a batch of german bred & some wild apistos & advertised them on a local fish forum here. Apistos only released from quarantine on Wednesday & each fish was still in it's individual jar from the breeder (so at least I know no chance of mixing up the pairs by LFS). By the time I got to the shop on Friday afternoon, I got the 2nd last pair of the imports. Only thing left now is a pair of apisto elizabethae "Super red". These fish just flew (swam) out the door.

Oops, forgot to mention I also got a Penang Eruption Discus too.

Thanks for the link to the fish Wings.

Cheers
TW

My old hongsloi:




Sure miss that guy. I missed an infected wound on him when I purchased him, it just got worse until he died. Cool fish though, good luck with 'im.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Wow Robyn , you have got the Discus thing bad . Seriously , lovely looking fish and cheap is good as long as you like the look . Good move to remove the rainbows I think .
Look forward to some Photos of the new one .

Enjoy
Garry

Matty, that is a nice looking fish, sorry to hear he didn't last to long for you. Thanks for popping in Countryfish . Anyway, here are the latest pics of new residents. Unfortunately the most colourful red melon (one of the originals) seem to be the bully of the bunch & is picking on the new comers.

The Penang Eruption leads the Fire Ruby on a Tank Tour. Fire Ruby looks cranky to be at the end of the line.

Penang Eruption on a lone circuit


Cheers
TW

Again, very beautiful fish and Fire Ruby does look cranky in the picture! What is a Penang eruption? I have not heard of this strain before, it certainly looks intersting, a bit like a snakeskin.

And there is always a bully, maybe I should send my Blue Diamond to meet with your Red Melon so he/she can get a taste of the same medicine! You have 5 discus now, correct? Is this the number you want to have or are you planning to add some more?

hi Catdancer, thanks for popping in

What is a Penang eruption?

Can only guess that it is the name a breeder has given to his creation of a new strain.

have not heard of this strain before

Well, I haven't heard of any of the strains before now Yes I have 5 now. I intend to have 6 by the time I'm done. I might trade in one of the red melons, for a different strain - just to add to the variety in the tank.

Cheers
TW

Robyn, Again thats a very nice fish . Hope they are all getting on well . Hows the new tank coming on ? Any news ?

Garry

Robyn;

a suggstion re veggie food for discus I got from a knowledgeable sales person: Hikari brine shrimp with spirulina! the shrimp were fed spirulina so the veggies come as a nice 'wrap' inside the shrimp. Plus the food is fortified with additional vitamins

I had always wondered what that food was all about. I thought it was a mix of the two foods. I guess not. Funny thing is I have been doing much the same with feeder shrimp for fish that need them at work.

I know there are also veggie pellets you might be able to get them to eat.

Right now are they still on Blood Worms alone?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

wow really pretty fish TW they look great, look forward to your new log!

Thanks y'all for popping in

Hi catdancer, I have bought (but not yet opened) the Hikari Spirulina brine shrimp. Wings, no longer just the brine shrimp. I decided to make up a batch of discus hamburger & followed a recipe on the discus forum I visit. Here's the ingredients, in case you're interested:-

1kg beefheart, thoroughly trimmed of any fat and sinew
1/2 kg prawns, the bright orangey red ones
1/2 kg green prawns, shelled and de veined
1/2 kg of any white ocean fish fillets (don't use fresh water fish)
1/2 kg Salmon (yes I know, but your fish are worth it)
1/2 cup frozen green peas
1/2 cup cooked carrot
1 heaped teaspoon of Spirulina powder for every 2kg of mixture
1/4 cup of minced garlic
Gelatin dissolved in boiling water, to bind it all together

Instructions said to run each ingredient through a mincer twice, but I found a food processor did a really good job. It then goes into a big bowl, where it's mixed by hand (wearing gloves, or you'll have green hands) for about 10 minutes. I put 3 teaspoonful of mixture into each zip lock bag, flatten them by hand, and lay on a tray to freeze flat. Because it's frozen in thin layers, you can snap off the amount you want to use. It made soooo much, I don't think I'll have to buy or make them more food for 12 months. One by one, they are all eating it. By that I mean, on 1st offering only one fish tried it & by now (3 days later) all but 1 fish is loving it. I am worried about the one not eating it, so I will offer blood worm tonight to see if he is just not eating as it's a strange food to him, or because he might be sick.

Hows the new tank coming on ? Any news ?

Well, I popped along to Bunnings hardware today, to look into the DIY options. I think I have a plan now for how to do it myself, but I need to enlist hubby's help & I don't know how long it will take to sell him on the idea of being my tradesman. Here's what I have to convince him to do:-

cut hole in the false bottom of the cupboard in 4 places (one in each corner of cupboard)

one of these will go into each hole, standing vertically as shown (although not leaning over)


The bolt screws either up or down, so that the height can be adjusted (sort of a makeshift jack). Running horizontally on the cupboard ceiling will be a steel bar, which will rest on top of the screw shown in picture. The vertical screw will be tightened, so that the horizontal bar will held securely in place.

I think that will take care of the strengthening issues.

Next, I have to get him to cut out a section of the back wall of cupboard to allow filter hoses to make their way to the tank.

Next, I have to get him to cut a section out of the shelf, to allow the filter to fit in the cupboard.

So, that's my latest plan to move things along. Anyone see any problems?

Hi fandan, thanks for the fish compliment

Cheers
TW

Here are some fresh pictures.

The 1st shows the windelov in a rear tilted position, forming the cave behind the discus


Wasn't really happy with the above look, so it's now back in it's lower & flatter position. Notice - no cave now. I'd like to trim the windelov, but how does that work out? IMO the nicest part of the plant are the twisty bits at the end of each leaf. Any advice on how to trim & how it turns out would be appreciated. Everything is very overgrown & overcrowed as they wait patiently for the long awaited day of rehousing to larger quarters.


Last 2 shots for today. The blue discus is the same one as in the top shot. Depending upon the light, the angle & perhaps even his mood, his colour can change dramatically. Note the markings - it is the same fish. The colour change is true with the fish behind him. To the right is a shot of the same fish. Also, notice Mr & Mrs Cac checking each other out on the left.



Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Looking very nice and green

About trimming the Windelov: It is just another form of fern, so trimming is done in the same fashion than common java fern. Now, there are multiple options of course:

- Simply cut off extending rhizomes to make the group smaller in surface size.
- Always good is to remove the various babies as they fill the group and make it very dense.
- Lastly, you can also take it all out, cut off newer pieces of the rhizomes (the extensions) and remove all old growth, and tie only the new growth back onto the wood. This way the whole group is smaller and refreshed.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow, you are such a good 'mother'

I really admire you for preparing your own food - I was toying with the idea a while ago but forgot about it as my fish do not like beefheart at all. What made you decide to do it after your initial reluctance? Not eating regular foods? I have to say I am tempted again ... and if thefish don't like it it sounds like a good cat food Is it messy/bad on the water quality? the commercially available preparations are.

Beautiful photos of the fish as always and I love the 'Windelow cave'.

hi catdancer

What made you decide to do it after your initial reluctance? Not eating regular foods?

The reason was because they were not eating anything other than bloodworm and I didn't think that was so good. I tried spectrum pellet, fresh & frozen brine shrimp, frozen beef heart mix. They turned their nose up at the lot. The ingredients in the mix I found seemed so healthy. It has lots of other good stuff, besides the beef heart.

Is it messy/bad on the water quality? the commercially available preparations are.

Time alone will tell, I suppose. I only put in a very little bit at a time & don't drop the next bit in, until it's gone. Yes, I do see some mess when they bite at it - but all the other greedy little fish (including the corys) also love the stuff, so I hope they will clean up the dregs. I always feed in the one spot, so any waste always drops there. If I find it's a problem, I will siphon out a few litres daily from around the feeding area.

If you do try it, I warn you it will be smelly when you are mixing it all up (strong garlic & fishy smell) & doesn't look that great (green from the spirulina). Not cheap to purchase, as lots of the ingredients are pricey (at least here - eg salmon, prawns) but when you see how much it makes & how long it will last you - I don't think it works out expensive after all.

Oh - and I was told it is very, very important that you cut out every single bit of sinew & fat from the beef heart. The carrot is to be cooked, but the peas are not. The peas are to be frozen. Apparently, all these finer points make a difference to the chewiness (& therefore digestibility) of the mix for the discus.

Let me know how you go, if you do make it.

Cheers
TW