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This one shows fluffy algae on my rocks. There was more, but I cleaned some off during tonight's water change.

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Cheers
TW

Here's a few shots with my new wisteria planted. It's not tall enough yet, but I really like the light, bright colour of this plant. I think I'll either get some more of it, or else the water sprite. Just skip the posts if the pics are boring, cause there are a few. They're good for me to have here, as a record of my changing tank.

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Left Hand side of tank

Cheers
TW

Here's the middle

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TW

Here's the right hand side.

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TW

Here's the full shot

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Cheers
TW

Just skip the posts if the pics are boring

Are you kidding? That is what makes logs interesting for the "average" reader. Without pictures and us only babbeling about some crazy algae or plant a log would be rather boring. And - as has been said many times before - a picture speaks more than 1000 words

About the fluffy algae? it seems to grow in bushels, right? That would be BBA that prefers to grow on hardscape and very slow growing plants. Is it growing back or are the areas that you cleaned free of it forever (so far)? I would say it has to do with the recent CO2 irregularities, but maybe the others know more about it.

Ingo

EDIT: Oh, forgot to say something about the tank. - it looks very nice. If I had a choice between Wisteria and Water Sprite I would select Wisteria anytime. Water Sprite is not as pretty, but it grows faster. And I like your line-up of breeing traps

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the comments Ingo. Last night was the 1st time I tried cleaning the BBA, so too soon to know if it will grow back. I didn't do a very good job of cleaning it off though. Next water change I might scrubb it with a toothbrush or something. I'm trying to keep my hands out of the tank in between weekly water changes - so it can wait till then.

I know the breeding tanks spoil the look, but my babies are too little to risk swimming free in the tank. I have 2 breeders, because the mollies are older (bigger) & I don't want them snacking on the smaller (younger) platys. My biggest fish in the tank is the ram, but the most aggressive is probably the mum mollie. How big do fry need to be, do you think, before I can let them join the big boys? I accidently bumped & sank the breeding trap at last week's water change (not last nights). 3 platys had the good sense to stay where they were, but one brave fellow swam off & was never seen again - can only assume he quickly became a snack.

Cheers
TW

That looks really nice. I love the hardscape, it makes the tank look really deep. Lookin' good.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

can only assume he quickly became a snack

Maybe yes, maybe no

I don't have Mollies and as such I cannot recommend any fry size which would be considered save. But I can tell you a story, sorry if I may have told it before:

When my first batch of Platy fry arrived in my tank I had no idea what was going on. Sure thing, all were eaten. I even saw one fry swim right up into the open water, just to be a zebra danio snack about 2 seconds later.
So, the next time when the platy was ready, so was I. I managed to "rescue" 9 fry from the tank by carfully staring into the water for 2 hours straight and then fishing them out and placing them in a breeder net. I fed the little ones, vacuumed carfully within the breeder net, for weeks and weeks. Then, as they got bigger, I sectioned off a corner of my tank (BTW, you can see the sectioned tank picture in my 29G log - first picture - in the aquascaping forum) and kept them in there for another few months (maybe 1 to 2). All 9 survived . Ever since then, I have not "rescued" any more platies and adult fish took care of the fry/snacks. But one or the other fry managed to survive by hiding for most of the day. Eventually they came out and the adults git used to the visuals of very small fish. By now I have the impression that the adults don't even bother with fry anymore. Even maybe 1 week old fry dares to come out during feeding time. And - as a result - I have a platy population explosion.

Moral - Don't worry, in a well planted tank there is almost no way that you won't end up like this (but I know that you can trade them in).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks mattyboombatty. I was scared at 1st to show my tank, 'cause I thought the planted tank guys wouldn't like my rocks (they take up valuable plant space). They do, I know, but I like how they force me to have some free swimming space above the rocks & that they make little rock tunnels/caves here & there.

Ingo, I hope you are right about the fry. I have had several batches left free swimming & none so far have made it. The longest was about a week. I've planted another 3 bunches of wisteria (each bunch had 3-4 stems) so now you (almost) cannot see the back of the tank. I hope that gives new fry more chance. I'm going to keep the 3 platy fry I have now & I'm trying to talk my son into having a tank for the mollies (as I don't have room in my tanks). But any more I will have to give away to LFS. He looks after me well, so I don't care if I get credit or not, as long as he takes care of them. He's a small business person & I can see most customers are regulars, so I hope that means they'll go to good homes.

Cheers
TW

I was at LFS last night filling up my gas bottle. He told me that black gravel is not good for a planted tank & that it will push my pH up, fighting the C02 in trying to bring pH down.

Does anyone know if that's true. I sure hope not, as changing the gravel would mean pulling my whole tank apart. I'm just not prepared to do that, so I hope he's wrong. Anyone know???

Cheers
TW

He told me that black gravel is not good for a planted tank

Black gravel in general or your black gravel in specific? Did he give you any reason why this would be the case? I would assume that your gravel (as true black is usually not a natural color) is coated with some shiny stuff, did he mention that this coat may come off? How about calling the manufacturer and trying to find out?

I would assume he is wrong. What would raise the ph - probably rock leaching calcium into the water column. In this case, just take out one of the bigger grains, scrape off the top layer and pour some vinegar on it. If you see strong bubbles forming then he would be right.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

He said "natural" black gravel & wasn't talking about mine specifically, but what he called "natural" black gravel. But if I read your reply correctly, there's no such thing. Anyway, I grabbed out a grain, scratched the surface with a knife & poured on the vinegar. From what I could see, there were no bubbles. So that should mean, I'm ok and, at least in my case, he's wrong. Thanks for the advice.

Cheers
TW

There are types of naturl black gravel. Stuff like crushed coal.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

There are types of naturl black gravel. Stuff like crushed coal.

If that is true and you would have crushed coral then yes, this would raise the ph. But the vinegar test should have detected that, if I am not mistaken. In this case, I also would assume that the gravel packaging material would mention that it contains coral.

To eliminate all concerns, do you know the brand and name of the gravel, maybe even who makes it? It can't harm to try to call them and to find out from the source directly. I would advice not to ask "is this gravel altering the ph?" rather phrase the question like "what is the gravel make off (or something like that)".

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I'll have to go visit that particular LFS. Do you remember my long ago post about my 8 rasboras all dying in less than a week? Anyway, it came from there & it was in an unlabeled plastic bag, from what I remember anyway.

Next time I'm that way, I'll stop in and ask. Thanks again Wings & Ingo.

Cheers
TW

If that is true and you would have crushed coral then yes

Not coral but coal! I do know where you were going with it though. What I was talking about was from page 94 of Peter Hiscock's Encyclopedia of Aquarium plants. It says that coal, is a striking rock that is safe for the tank. it shows both a rock and of it broken down.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ups,

I guess I have to get glasses, or I only read crushed and the letter c that follows and automatically assumed coral.

Yeah, I haven't heard that coal would influnece the ph, but I haven't heard otherwise either.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This is the 1st time that my gas has lasted over a week - so I think maybe the leaking bubble counter was the problem. The guage has not shown much gas usage at all this week. Still having a problem with the bubble rate reducing during the day. I leave home with it pumping out 3 bps, but when I come home & check it out, it's down to 1 bps. Don't know why it does that, but guess I'll need to set it higher than I need, so that it adjusts down to what I want it to be.

I think I lose C02 due to surface water disturbance. I'm going to make a longer return water pipe (with PVC plumbing tube), so my water enters the tank at a deaper level. It won't be seen behind my wisteria, but think it might help

Ingo, I saw a free swimming fry during my water change yesterday, so will see have to see whether it shows up again. The increased wisteria (I've packed extra in since my last pictures) might help its chances.

When I put the first pics in this log, I complained I could see my yucky filter above the growth. Now it is nearly covered by my blue stricta. Before C02, it's highest leaf did not reach the filter & now the highest leaf is above the top of the filter - so I guess that is evidence my C02 is helping with growth. I'm happy with that.

Nearly lost my fry yesterday morning. I was about to leave for work, but lucky I was standing in front of the tank, when a greedy platy jumped into the floating fry container - which had no lid. I quickly scooped her out & found a lid for the container, so she couldn't do it again. That really surprised me. Think it was because I'd thinned out the java moss in the container & the fry are now more visible to the community.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Your ongoing problems with the bubble count confuse me. Let me see if I remember that right: you do not have a solenoid and turn the CO2 on and off manually, right? I think we talked about leaving the needle valve alone and you turned to only shut off the bottle n itself. If that is the case then you are truely doing all you can, but the needle valve seems to be to sensitive to handle the pressure onslaught when CO2 is opened. Over the day it adjusts and reduces the flow by evening. I had something like this on my setup as well (well, similar) as the initial tinkering with the needle valve gave me a good flow, but the next day, after the solenoid shut it off and back on, the flow had changed. After a few weeks/months I got the handle of it and now the flow is consistent, mostly because I am very familiar with the personallity of my needle valve. If you turn the flow up clock-wise the flow rate is different (after night down time) than if I would have achieved the same bubble count when turned counter-clockwise. I hope this was rather clear, I don't want to confuse you too much .

Great to hear that you are satisfied with your growth

You say you saw a fry. Of what fish? How does it look like?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

you do not have a solenoid and turn the CO2 on and off manually, right? I think we talked about leaving the needle valve alone and you turned to only shut off the bottle n itself.

That's right, but it doesn't seem to work for me if I turn off at the bottle itself, leaving the valve alone. For some reason, if I do that, when I turn the bottle itself on, C02 pumps through at an explosive rate. I'm sure this is what caused the top of my bubble counter to pop & spring a leak. So I have to turn off the valve as well. I think it will just be a matter of getting to know my valve really well - harder, 'cause I don't have a dial for this (I only have one dial - gas bottle empty indicator, don't have one for the flow rate). I turned it on this morning, came back 10 mins later & increased it again (as it has slowed) & again just before I left, I re-adjusted it to faster than I need & hope it will level out to where I want it to be during the day. I'd hoped that when I eventually get the solenoid, this wouldn't happen - but if I read your post right, you had to "get to know your valve" even with a solenoid. Oh well, it gives me something to fiddle with.

The fry was a platy & smaller than the ones I have in my breeder. If it is the one that escaped the other week, it's smallness might be explained by my breeding trap fry being regularly fed & that poor free swiming fry finding little food, having to hide all day. Otherwise, it could be new fry. Quite possible, as my platy are always pregnant. At the moment I have one very pregnant mollie and platy. I've often seen fry in my tank, but they usually disappear after a day or two. Fingers crossed this time round.

I would have like it to be a harley, but no sign of any action there.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Yeah, it could be that turning the main valve of the CO2 bottle on and off causes a burst of gas, not good .
Can you by any chance make a picture of the reactor, just so I can invision your setup better?

About the fry: Yeah, harlies would have been nice. And don't you worry about your platy and molly fry, at sme point their population will explode, I promise

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have pics of the C02 set up, but first, I have one showing my blue stricta (if that's what it's called) with a leaf growing above the filter motor. Ignore the wisteria - it's new, but the plant behind it. Here's the shot. If you were to scroll back in my log to 5 April, you'd see that same plant not even reaching the bottom on the filter motor. So, I'm happy with that growth.


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Cheers
TW

Here is a shot of the top of my gas bottle, showing the single dial regulator.

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Cheers
TW

Here's the bubble counter

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Cheers
TW

Here's a shot of part of the filter media containers. The white silicone tubing is the C02 line & the black tubing coming out of the end of the spray bar is the water that pumps into the reactor. At the far right of the pic, you can see both tubes entering into the tank itself.

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Cheers
TW

Here's the water return pipe, through which both tubes pass. Note the surface water disturbance. I'm going to try to make an extension for the water return pipe, so the water is released deeper in the tank.

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Cheers
TW

I just couldn't get a clear shot of the reactor itself in the tank, so I took a pic of the box, which shows the type. You can tell from the previous shot, showing the tubing coming into the tank through the water return pipe, that the reactor is situated a little below & to the back of the return water pipe.

So, now you more or less can see my C02 is set up.

Happily, today when I got home my bubble count was around 3 bps, which is what I've been aiming for.

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Cheers
TW

Wow Robyn,

That for sure was very informative.

I have never seen a setup like this, with all these things involved. I really struggeled to understand where the spray bar comes into play.

The one question I would have now is: Even if you get a solenoid, where will it go?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Afterthought

Robyn, I am still hung up on the spray bar. What is it doing over the filter? Is that how "clean" water re-enters the tank? That would be bad, much worse than any surface agitation that you may have. In this case the exposure of CO2 to the air is tremendous and loads will dissipate into the air, IMHO.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo

The one question I would have now is: Even if you get a solenoid, where will it go?

Here's a full shot of my gas bottle with the regulator attached. You see under the brass of the regulator, there is a black piece over which the C02 tubing fits. LFS tell me that the black piece is removed & the solenoid slots into place there. Then the C02 tube connects to the solenoid instead. It's lucky for me that it works like that. Don't know if I already told this story, but hubbie dropped the regulator & that little black piece snapped right off. LFS told us that Dupla do not make that as a spare part, but as LFS routinely removes that when customers buy the regulator & solenoid as a set, they had a few spares lying around in a drawer. So they were able to give me one.

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Cheers
TW

Robyn, I am still hung up on the spray bar. What is it doing over the filter? Is that how "clean" water re-enters the tank? That would be bad, much worse than any surface agitation that you may have.

The spray bar sits on top of 3 separate filter compartment boxes and all along it's length there are holes for dirty water to come out of the spray bar. In each compartment box, the dirty water drains down through the first filter layer (which you could see in the pic) & it is a black sponge. Underneath that it then passes through filter wool & underneath that again is my matrix. After the now clean water passes through these 3 levels of filter media it travels underneath the media (but still in the filter area) to join the filter return pipe that I show. So the water coming out of the spray bar is not returning to the tank unfiltered, as at that point, it hasn't really even started the filtering process. The spray bar is the way of getting the dirty water into the filter media boxes to be cleaned. I hope my waffle makes sense.

The C02 tubing lays atop the filter compartment box for convenience, to get it into the tank. My filter compartment box doesn't have too many openings for cords etc to pass in neatly and it seemed the best way to get the C02 tube into the tank, was to let it share the same space & openings as water inlet pipe. Whilst the dirty water is trapped in the filter compartment boxes & forced through the media before making it the 4th empty compartment, where the return water pipe is, the C02 tubing passes over the top of each compartment, over the 4th compartment barrier, which is empty except for the now clean water & enters the return inlet pipe, into the tank & into the reactor.

The part that has always slightly bothered me about the setup, which is the way LFS told my hubbie to do it, is the next part of the explanation. My reactor has one join for the C02 tubing (the white tube) and another join for water (the black tube) as water must be pumped through into the reactor. Now, LFS had my tank in stock & said the best way to do this was to drill a hole in the extreme end of the spray bar, just big enough for the black tubing to enter in a little way. It means that water that makes it to the end of my spray bar (without being released into the filter media compartment boxes via the spray bar holes along the way) enters the black tube & goes into the reactor. So the part that bothered me is that a small part of my water does enter the tank unfiltered via the C02 reactor.

My filter turns over 2,000 L.per hour (or 528 US gals per hour) and my tank is 43.5G. The manufactures have told me my filter is a bit of an overkill for the job (I spoke to them on another issue to do with the filter) so I hope that this high turnover means that sufficient water does pass down through the filter media & return clean to the tank & it's only a small part of the water that doesn't pass through the various filtering layers & returns unfiltered to the C02 reactor. Perhaps I should speak to my tank's manufacturer & ask what impact this modification has on my biological filtering system. I know filtering still seems to be pretty efficient, as I see the colour of my filter wool at water change time & maintenance time.

BTW, that brings me to another question. Do you use filter wool & if so, how often do you change it.

You might recall my concerns over my gravel & the pH. Well my investigations indicate I don't have anything to worry about. I'm told the gravel is inert, does not contain either coral or coal and will not effect anything. It also passed the vinegar test I did, so that query is out of the way.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Thanks for the detailed explanation on where the solenoid would go. If I see that right then all parts of the regulator are before the solenoid, including the needle valve. In my setup this valve is after the solenoid and as such pressureless when turned off. This means that in the mornings (for my setup) when the solenoid opens a stream of as hits the needle valve and may change its position slightly, which in turn could create a different bubble rate than the day before. In your case, having the needle valve constantly under pressure should actually be better, I guess.

About your filter, spray bar, CO2 setup: How hard would it be for you to get a glass diffuser? This would save you so much complexity on this setup. Your CO2 would be completely independent from the filter, just plug the CO2 tube into the diffuser and hang the whole thing in the tank, all done.

In any way, your filter bothers me . The reason to avoid surface agitation in a planted CO2 tank is to limit the gas exchange, in particular to limit the chance for the CO2 to easily escape. Your filter seems to do the opposite. Around 12 times per hour does the entire tank water pass through the spray water and is trickled onto the filter in small streams, huge surface - major exposure. At least theoretically this should mean that you lose loads of CO2. I wonder what others have to say about this.

I have no filter wool, I don't even know what it looks like. My small non-CO2 tanks are running on sponges (2 each) only, the canister of the 125G has a coarse filter pad (maybe the equivalent of floss), followed by a mechanical filter material (1l Ehfimech), a biological filter material (4l Ehfisubstrat), and a fine pad, and that is it.

Good to hear that we don't have to worry about your substrate ,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Glass Diffusers aren't available in Australia at all. But Paulus, who is visiting US on holidays, said he would pick one up & post it to me. So provided no breakages, I'll have to ask how to set the diffuser up. It will only cost me $13, whereas the reactor cost $99.95. I'll also need to replace the spray bar, or at least but a new end cap for it, to fill in the hole drilled in the end.

Re: the flow of my filter. At one point I rang the manufacturer because the flow is so strong where it re-enters the tank & the force was pounding down on a plant which it killed (it was a fragile plant. I have a Java Fern there now, and it's doing just fine.) They appeared to expect my comment & openly said the filter was an overkill. They sent me a free replacement impeller, that will decrease the turnover. I have the part but haven't done anything with it. I'm not a handy person & I don't know how to change it over (came with no instruction), plus I thought over filtering was better than under filtering.

So do you think I need to do something about. Any opinions on that would be appreciated.

Re the filter wool & filter sponges - they're probably much the same thing. Filter wool can be bought in bulk sheets & cut to the size of your filter container (it is my white sponge) & then I also have a black sponge on top of that. Under both sponges is the matrix (the biological filter media). Just wondered how often you change the sponges.

Cheers
TW

I'll have to ask how to set the diffuser up.

That is really easy, as long as you find a spot in the tank under the filter for it so that the rising bubbles can be washed into the current and as such throughout the tank. If you haven't seen it already, I have pictures of the setup in crazyred's log in this forum.

plus I thought over filtering was better than under filtering.

No doubt this is right, and I am not even suggesting your filter is overkill. I don't know how much media you have available in this filter (in volume), but I have my smaller tanks all running on at least 10 times the tank volume per hour. The smaller the medium compartment of a filter is the more often it should turn over the tank water.

I'm not a handy person & I don't know how to change it over

I would assume that sooner or later you will have to do something about the impeller, maybe not add the new one but at least clean the existing one. Your filter in itself also didn't come with instructions? Maybe you can find them online. Impellers and their housing will collect gunk and should be cleaned every few months.

So do you think I need to do something about. Any opinions on that would be appreciated.

As I said above, the flow rate does not bother me at all, except if it would kill your plants and make your fish having to fight the current all the time while they naturally would prefer stiller waters (some fish do come from lake or slow flowing environments). My concern here is only the loss of CO2.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Your filter in itself also didn't come with instructions?

The tank is one of those that comes as a complete kit & it did come with an instruction book, but it says "impeller should be cleaned every 3 months" but it does not give any clue as to how you do that. Every water change, I take off the Uplift & strainer, as well as the spray bar & clean those. It is time that I did clean the impeller, as the tank has now been set up since January. I'll have to ring them or better yet, I'll ask LFS if they can show me how.

The smaller the medium compartment of a filter is the more often it should turn over the tank water.

My medium compartment box is 26.5" long X 6" wide X 4" deep.

the flow rate does not bother me at all, except if it would kill your plants and make your fish having to fight the current all the time while they naturally would prefer stiller waters

The flow in the tank itself seems fine - doesn't seem to cause a current issue, it's just that the water pounds down into the tank, where it re-enters. Fish actually seem to like playing in it. Now that I have a Java fern there, no issues with plant kill. I'd like water to enter at a deeper level. Unless it's a problem for my C02, I'd rather over filter than under filter. Thanks again for the comments Ingo.

Cheers
TW

Forget to tell my news about new platy fry. It had been well over a month since this little girl last had her babies and she was very, very pregnant. So, I moved my mollie fry into the same container as my platy fry & thought I'd see how she'd go in the breeding trap the mollie fry had been in. On Friday morning, I popped her in, added some free floating java moss. She was quiet, but didn't seem too upset. She ate when fed. I was very lucky. We went out to tea on Saturday night & when I came home there were so many little platy's in that breeder, that I can't count them. I have no more room for breading traps, so won't be try this again until these little ones grow big enough to move on elsewhere - either to my son (who I'm trying to talk into getting a tank so I can keep some of these) or to a friend I've promised some, or to LFS. The LFS where I get my C02 said I'll get store credit - but I wouldn't expect much as he only sells them for $4.95.

Cheers
TW

As I have low lights, I don't have much in the way of variety in the tank. It is a bit of a jungle in there, the wisteria is really growing. It has reached the top, bent over itself and shading over my rocks & the java moss there. Holding off trimming it, as when I have another tank ready, I want to use the trimmings from this tank & see how I go doing that. Here are some pics of my jungle.



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Cheers
TW

here's a close up of the same



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Cheers
TW

Here's a pic of the same area on 19.04.06. You can see how much it's grown.

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Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Growth seems to be really strong, I guess you must be doing the right things

About holding off with trimming:

I would not wait too long as shading plants that would need the light is for sure not a good thing. How about this: Trim the Wisteria a little (maybe cut off the top 4 inches) and plant them in the foreground where there seems to be quite some space. It may not look the prettiest (but it may actually look good for the time being) but you have two distinct advantages:

1) Your plants are no longer shaded
2) You just have doubled the amount of Wisteria that you can add to the new tank, as the clippings by then will be ready for it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok, good idea. I'll do that. Thanks.

Growth does seem strong and I do like the look of wisteria, but I'm a little bored that I can't have all fancy plants due to the light level. One LFS told me the highest watt per tube to fit my hood is 30W, so 3 of those makes around 2WPG, so that's still low, isn't it?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Yeah, maxing out on the light is always (or often) a problem when one buys a kit. If I remember that right then right now you have 3 20w lights, right? Did the LFS guy say how you would fit the 30w bulbs in there? They should be about 12" longer (each). And did he mention if you built-in balast would be able to handle the additional load (it may be able to do that as I remember that my 2x20 was layed out to handle 60 or 80w)?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What I have now is 2 x 25W & 1 x 20W. The correct length tubes for my tank come in 30W as the highest. He sells my tank & seemed to know what he was saying & he thinks no problems with 30W, but that I was limited by that length tube coming in no higher than 30W. We didn't talk about my built-in ballast, but I do think he was saying all was okay.

I can't do anything about it now, but down the track I'll ask whether an electrician could expand the light cover, so it's big enough for a 4th tube, or else I have thoughts of getting rid of the hood altogether & having a glazier or tank maker, make a glass sliding top, on which I could sit a separate light unit. I may have to do something about the filter then, as it sits atop the whole back length of tank & may look strange without the hood butting up against it. But these are all pipe dreams for now. Still trying to scheme how I can get a bigger tank, before I do that. Just a bit disappointed that with all I've spent so far, I still can't grow the fancy plants. I'd love some red plants & ground cover - but for now my fish & rocks will have to do for colour.

BTW, although my wisteria is growing well, it bends over, instead of standing tall. Is that usual?

Cheers
TW

Ok,

Then let's leave the light issue alone for now, but make sure you bring it back up BEFORE you make changes to your hood .

Bending of Wisteria stems: I see that often when the plant is not directly under the light source. In this case, it will grow towards it. Another reason could be the current in the tank as plants tend to "go with the flow". And last but not least, maybe you are on your way to become a Wisteria master like tetratech who trained his plants to crawl along the substrate .

Foreground cover: you could try some Echinodorus tenellus, Pygmy Chain Sword. That may grow well enough.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

that makes sense. The very back of the tank is shaded by the filter compartments & the front of the tank is shaded by the feeding flap, and that is where they're bending towards the light.

Cheers
TW

BTW, although my wisteria is growing well, it bends over, instead of standing tall. Is that usual?

No big deal. It just means that tetratech has been working his magic on it the westeria again!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

No big deal. It just means that tetratech has been working his magic on it the wisteria again!

Here's a pic. I hope you can see my stem of wisteria laying on the substrate. It's not broken, it's just bending down from the stem, then rests on the gravel.

BTW, I'm wondering if the high nitrate level in my tap water should effect my ferts dosing. Nitrates from my tap are between 10ppm & 20ppm (closer to 20, than 10). Does that have any effect?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

BTW, I'm wondering if the high nitrate level in my tap water should effect my ferts dosing. Nitrates from my tap are between 10ppm & 20ppm (closer to 20, than 10). Does that have any effect?

I am sure you could pull something off but you will still probably have to add some nitrates to the mix. If you add in 20 ppm at every weekly 50% water change then depending at the amount of up take from your plants you could posibaly only be adding in 10 ppm if your plants suck up everything. If I remember right I am adding in 10 ppm every other day. That would mean 50% water changes every other.

You could use the water change for your first dose of nitrates but I think thats all you could pull off.


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings. Caught your pic in that thread. What was that fish you caught & how big?

Cheers
TW

Thanks Wings. Caught your pic in that thread. What was that fish you caught & how big?

Rainbow trout and maybe 4Lb give or take a few....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Robyn,

Back to your last picture:

What you see is a plant spreading out. I have seen this behaviour on various stem plants. The lower parts of a stem form a side shoot that looks just like a normal stem, but move flat over the surface. Then the nodes on that stem develop roots and eventually (in a certain more light receiving area) the stem starts to grow upwards again. This is exactly what tetratech uses for his creeping Wisteria. He basically removes most of the upright stems and lets the creepers creep .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

basically removes most of the upright stems and lets the creepers creep

This could be good. It might take care of my foreground & then I'll be happy.

Cheers
TW

Nothing much changed this week, other than more fry. My mollie has now had 2 lots of fry since I've had her. They must have been born sometime Tuesday. Monday night she was still very pregnant & yesterday during water change I found lots of little babies hiding in my overgrown wisteria. I set up another breeding container (I have a line up of 3 across the front of the tank now) and I guess I have about 20 or more in there. There are still about 3 or 4 free swimming in the tank, so it will be interested to see if they make it or not. These little guys seem quite brave & I've seen them in the open I may have lessened their chances by thinning out the wisteria for hubby's tank. The next lot will have to take their chances - no room for another breeder trap in the tank.

I added 4 cory sterbai & 3 female guppys to the tank tonight.

Here is another pic of my creeping wisteria. I'm going to follow it's journey across my tank.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

TW,
Sure looks like Tetratech has been working on your tank! Or you took his wistiria wipe!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Robyn,

Looking nice. Yeah - seems like tetratech is not the only one who mastered the art of creeping Wisteria .

About your lifebearers: You know that theoretically Mollies and Guppies can interbreed, right? I find it very nice that you line up your tank wwith breeder nets, I am by now more at the point where I say "oh no, not another baby".

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

About your livebearers: You know that theoretically Mollies and Guppies can interbreed, right? I find it very nice that you line up your tank wwith breeder nets, I am by now more at the point where I say "oh no, not another baby".

No, I didn't know that. I'd read about platys & swords, so I don't have swords. As mollies & platys are so different looking, that never occurred to me. I'll have to move the mollie. She can be the 1st cycling fish for hubby. Her babies so far all look very much to be all mollie - so I hope that hasn't happened.

No doubt I'll shortly get to the "oh no, not another baby" stage, but I find it exciting now. My 3 breeding nets somewhat spoil the look of the tank & get in the way at water change. Bumped one last night (again) when I was taking the water for hubby's tank & it sunk a little. Some baby mollies swam out & 2 guppys jumped in. Caught them again, so no harm done, other than a bit of stress for me. Scooped the guppys out before they had a snack.

I added the female guppys, cause I only had males & I thought they were getting a little frustrated. Thought some females might calm them down.

Cheers
TW

As mollies & platys are so different looking, that never occurred to me.

Mollies and Guppies, not Platies - I guess that is what you meant. Platies and Swords will interbreed, and so do Mollies and Guppies.

How do you do the water change with the breeders on the top rim? Sounds like you have quite some organizing to do in that process.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, I did mean mollies & guppies - sorry. The mollie has been moved. I may not keep her much longer, as I want to have guppies in both the tanks & she doesn't belong in the cichlids tank either. I don't want the interbreeding issue. After hubby's tank is cycled, I think I'll either find a new home or she will go back to LFS.

How do you do the water change with the breeders on the top rim? Sounds like you have quite some organizing to do in that process.

They are a pain & get in the way for sure. 2 of them are the floating type & one is a white breeding net that hangs over the rim. The floating ones sink with the water level, but are oh so easy to bump & sink. They also get lopsided & tend to overbalance as they start to hit the plants rocks. When they overbalance, one edge can go equal or lower to water level, allowing fry to swim out & greedy fish to get in. I have sunk one of these twice. The breeding net I unhook from the rim, shove my wisteria out of the way & there is a rock I sit it on, which just keeps enough water in it. So it all means you have to keep looking at the breeders & not take your eye off them for too long while vacuuming.

Yesterday I still had a couple of free swimming fry in the tank - but I think they were too brave for their own good. They were swimming across the front of the tank, where the plants are much thinner (intentional, for good viewing). Can't see any free wimming fry today, but I'll keep watching for them.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Thanks for the info on the hassle of having 500 breeder traps in a tank . Sounds like some very tense times when doing water changes. Maybe you should try Rick's EI without CO2 (just kidding, let him tell us first how it works).

I found with my platies that the longer they were in the tank the less likely they were to eat fry. This includes the resident Zebra Danios and the one remaining Neon Tetra. I guess they like the flake food better and know that they will get enough of it. So by now I have tiny fry, maybe 4 to 5 days old, swimming in the open during feeding time. Sure, a lot still get eaten, but quite a few survive

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

There are at least 2, perhaps 3, free swimming fry. Watching the tank closely to see how get along.

Edit: 15.05.06 - no free swimming fry spotted today.
Edit: 17.05.06 - spotted 1 free swimming fry. He needs to be careful, he was chased twice, but managed this time to get away.

Cheers
TW

I haven't posted anything for a while, as there's been nothing really happening. The same old fast growing wisteria, which is really doing well. My creeping wisteria has made it halfway across my the front of my tank & I really like that. My moss & ferns are doing well too. I don't seem to have any algae. I like how my tank looks, but because of my lighting limitations, I don't have interesting plants to talk about. Ahhh, maybe one day and when I have all the pefect equipment in my dream 4ft tank - sitting empty in garage.

What I don't like was that due to a silly move, I threw my tank into a mini cycle. I had bad luck with a couple for sterbai corys that were new purchases & were in QT. They developed fungus, which I treated & thought was cured (about 3 died) but the survivors seemed recovered. Moved them to the community tank too soon & in 2 days, signs of fungus on one of them returned. Tried catching them, but with my 3 breeding traps, all the plants & the rocks, it was just too hard. Decided to treat them in situ (bad decision, I know now). Treating with sulfur, re dosing after 3 days. The instructions said continued use may interfere with beneficial bacteria, but I pushed on regardless. The day after the 3rd dosing of the tank I was watching a guppy that was clearly in distress & close to death. I removed him from the tank (guppys are always so easy to catch). I checked my ammonia, and it was through the roof & this tank has never had high ammonia reading (not since cycling). So, a big night of removing rocks to enable most of the fish to be removed & temporarily rehoused. The sterbai are back in QT & just a few guppys & one platy remain in the tank to do the cycle. A 50% water change & lots of carbon in the tank to get the sulfur out. Stole a sponge & filter media from one of the other cycled tanks, and now only 2 days later, my ammonia is back to normal. I thought it would take a lot longer.

I'm not going to move the fish back in for a week or two, to let the tank recover, and then slowly will re-introduce them back to the tank, just as if it was an inital stocking of the tank.

So glad I have a spare tank. I think I would have lost many fish if I couldn't have quickly moved them, to reduce the tank's load in it's time of crises.

So, a good lesson was learned. Never again treat in the main display tank.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Glad to hear that your main tank recovered that quickly. Yeah, treating in the main tank is not such a good idea, but sometimes you have no other option (like if the whole tank gets sick).

Also glad to hear that your plants are doing great, I think a photo would be in order .

Have fun,

Ingo

PS: check out my log (125) in a few as I am writing an update on QT fish that are sick

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Robyn,
Your observations are right on and I thought could
use some amplification for some of our less
experienced readers.

So many of us either purchase, or are given, a tank that
we set up and get all enthusiastic about. We then purchase
another, and another, and soon we get teased about falling
prey to the dreaded MTS syndrome.
Rarely do we give any thought to planning ahead and the
need for a QT or Hospital Tank.

There is a definite difference between the two.

A Quarantine Tank is designed to house new fish for periods
up to, or over, a month at a time. QT Tanks sizes will
vary according to the amount of money available, and
especially, depending upon the interests of the aquarist.
They should be large enough to house shoals or schools
of fish when appropriate. If the aquarist is interested
in larger fish that are purchased to be housed in a
large tank, then the QT tank should sized to accommodate
them comfortably.
For most, a QT tank would generally be in the 20 to 30
gallon range and should be fully equipped with a good
filter, heater, lighting, substrate, plants, and places
for the new fish to hide or claim as territories.
The tank should also house a few permanent fish too.
These will keep the beneficial bacteria alive and
thriving in between new fish.

A Hospital tank should be a small, bare tank, equipped
with a heater and a simple, air driven, inside sponge
filter and a well fitting lid. In a tank with no where
to hide many fish will become “jumpers” and a good
fitting lid is a necessity.
Generally speaking, a 10G tank is ideal for most fish.
It is small enough to accomplish easy water changes,
and those small water changes that are easily
accomplished, will make a big difference in the
small tank.
10G is easy to figure medication dosages as well.
Also, treating a 10G tank is far less expensive than
trying to treat a 100G tank.
Once the treatment has run its course, you simply
wash out the sponge filter to clean it and not just
rinse it out. I’d use diluted chlorine bleach and
then rinse it several times and soak it in some water
that has chlorine and chloramine remover in it.
Once clean and treated, simply set it in the QT tank
back in a corner somewhere and forget it till it is
needed again. Scrub out the Hospital Tank, and then
set it on a shelf till the next time it is needed.

Thanks for making your observations Robyn they are
lessons learned that will help us all.

Frank



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank for the extra & very useful advice. I do have a small hospital tank. The sterbais are still in it - 4 of them. Only one show signs of fungus. After yet another 3 days of treatment, fungus is still there. Not sure what to do about this fish - as the fungus isn't budging. The other sterbais are clear, but I don't trust moving any of them back to the main tank. The other healthy fish were moved to the 20G (which is the one I recently set up for hubby - you might have read that thread). As my main tank's water is all testing back to normal, I moved half of the fish from the 20G back to the main tank tonight. After another week or 2, I'll move the balance of my fish back in if all still tests well.

Its the only disadvantage of a planted tank,it is so hard catching sick fish. But this experience taught me, that even if you have to pull the rocks out and uproot some of the plants, you have to catch the sick fish & move to the hospital. I would be good to think that someone else might learn from my mistake.

Anyway, on Wednesday (water change day) it was time for a major trim. The wisteria was a jungle and overshadowed everything else. Before the trim, you could only see wisteria and the sword. Now at least I can see the java fern and the blue stricta as well. Some of my wisteria is getting a dried out & yellow look. You can see it in the full shot picture - that's not glare, it's the yellowing wisteria. I think it might be because I got out of whack with my fert & trace schedule. The other 2 tanks don't have C02 & their fert schedule is different & I think I got myself a bit confused about what was to go in which tank on what day. I now have a little schedule printed out to make sure I get each day's dosing right. So I hope to see improvement soon.

After the trim, you can now see the power head for the filter, which is a downer, but I'm keen to see how quickly it gets covered up with now growth. The blue stricta is in front of it, so it mightn't grow as quickly as the wisteria. The front may not look nice for long (or maybe will just need lots of trimming to keep it nice) but I've planted small sprigs of wisteri in the front for a bushy look. Anyway, here is the first of 2 pics.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Last pic. Here is a shot of my creeping wisteria. Most of the wisteria in the front are individual little sprigs, but there is one creeping vine like stem of wisteria, starting from the far left corner. It has now made it to the middle of the tank. It's bumped into the sword & is starting to climb to the surface. The sword would probably make a mess of the substrate & send muck in the water column if I uproot it, otherwise I might do so. I'd like to see the wisteria make it all the way across the tank.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Looking very nice, and green, and lush, and full, and what not

Seems like things are going very well with you, you even copied tetratech's Wisteria taming abilities

About a planted tank and getting fish out: yeah, it is harder, but worth it. Planted = Happy = Healthy

I use a small stick (thin) to herd the fish to one area of the tank where I wait for them with a net.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

The tank is looking good.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Thanks for the tank compliments Ingo & Rick. I'll try that thin stick trick next time - might help. I've used 2 nets, one for herding one for catching - but that wreaks havoc with the plants. A thin stick should work much better & cause less plant uprooting I would think. Thanks for the tip.

What do you think about the yellow leaves of some wisteria? Could it be the ferts out of whack like I think, or because they were shaded too much from the light before the trim? If so, I should see some improvement soon.

I bought 6 ottos today & I'm acclimatising them in QT now. By the time I'm ready to transfer them to the main display tank, it should be fully recovered from it's mini cycle. These ottos had been in LFS for about 3-4 weeks, so I hope that means they are strong. He ordered them in for me, but I wasn't ready to take them when they arrived. Didn't know how much longer he'd hold them & thought it would be good to get them, seeings as they seem like survivors. Fingers crossed for the ottos.

One other thing, since I cleaned out my C02 reactor, there are big bubbles coming up & hitting the surface. I don't know why that should be or if it is a problem.

Cheers
TW

Nice going on the Otos, I like them very much

I would assume that, having been 4 weeks at the LFS, you should not see any major losses (usually around 50% is normal, as sad as it is), but don't be surprised if you should lose one or the other. No need to panic, it happens.

What worries me is your CO2 reactor. Large bubbles to surface is not a good thing. I checked in your log for the reactor you have, found it (page 4 I think) but I don't know how it works. Did it come with instructions on how to clean it?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I would assume that, having been 4 weeks at the LFS, you should not see any major losses (usually around 50% is normal, as sad as it is), but don't be surprised if you should lose one or the other. No need to panic, it happens

That's what I figured, they might be survivors if they made it that long at LFS. Bit concerned though, if they'll find enough algae to eat in QT (I'm using hubby's tank as QT & as you know, it hasn't been set up very long). The longest tank setup here is the main community tank & I was sorely tempted to add them straight in ('cause there'd be more algae there) but recent bad luck with new stock bringing sickness prevents me from doing that.

I've thrown in an algae wafer for the otos, but I haven't seen them go near them yet. Do your otos eat wafers?

What worries me is your CO2 reactor. Large bubbles to surface is not a good thing. I checked in your log for the reactor you have, found it (page 4 I think) but I don't know how it works. Did it come with instructions on how to clean it?

Instructions say to remove the lower screen cap & pull out the cascade (a kind of black spiral tower that fits inside the reactor). Clean it & clean the inside of the reactor. So, you can see it wasn't complicated & cleaning was easy. Don't know what I could have done wrong.

Not sure why things are different since I cleaned it (or perhaps it's just that I can see the left hand side of the reactor after the plant trim (that's where I see the bubbles). Maybe I didn't notice this before simply because it was hidden behind plants. Also, there's a series of vertical holes on the reactor & you are meant to leave one unplugged. Depending on which hole is unplugged, it controls the C02 diffusion capacity (the higher the unopened hole is = less C02 diffusion. I've noticed that mine open hole is 2nd highest hole in the series (which was set by LFS). I'll try altering which hole is the open one & see if that makes any difference. Other than that, I don't know what to try. Next time at LFS to more gas (probably next weekend) if no improvement, I'll get their advice.


Cheers
TW

Wow, a wisteria dominated tank, gotta love it
I honestly thing Wisteria is one of the best aquatic plants you could buy. It's fairly easy to grow, has a variety of leaf shapes depending upon condtions (thus difformis) and has a variety of uses as well.

The coloring of your tank is similiar to mine with a dark substrate and petrified wood and of course all that wisteria.

BTW- I have 8 otos in my tank and I drop wafers in toward the evening and they are all over them (I guess their hungry for some manufactured algae)

My Scapes

Robyn,

Unlike tetratech, I don't have to worry about natural algae as a food souce for Otos . When I had them in the QT and the 29G I also added some algae wafers. I broke them into quarters. This way, the chance of an Oto coming across a piece have been increased. I also added them to the tank when the lights went out as the platies did not leave a scrap for the Otos when I fed them with the lights on.

Your diffuser is a miracle to me, how complicated can they make them. I would not know why someone would opt for less diffusion, the more the better. Maybe it is for the DIY setups where the bottle produces more CO2 than a tank would be able to handle.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks tetratech, you should have seen the wisteria before my trim. It was a real wisteria jungle in there. Wisteria is currently my favourite, because it grows so well in my tank. My light is fairly low and yet still I can see the growth every day. I'm still concerned that it's yellowing on me, but I should probably wait a bit longer now that my ferts schedule is back on track. Thanks to both you & Ingo for the wafer tips. I'll try at lights out next time. The platies are just all over the wafers while the lights are on (even though they've already been fed). Maybe these guys just have to get the idea. Is one wafer a night enough for 6 otos - there really isn't much algae in any of my tanks.

Your diffuser is a miracle to me, how complicated can they make them. I would not know why someone would opt for less diffusion, the more the better.

I guess in that case, when I do the water change on Wednesday night, I'll adjust it so the lowest hole is the open one (which means the most possible diffusion). I had been hoping that I'd have a glass diffuser by now (you can't buy them here - mine seems to be one of the most common that I see on-line or in LFS) A glass one was being brought back to AUS from US by a friend, but it was broken when he unpacked it, so that didn't work out this time around. There may be another time though. BTW, although the shots are poor - my camera is not good on close up - here are some shots of the otos in QT. Wondering if you could tell me if they are in fact otos & that I haven't been sold SAE or sucking catfish instead. Here they are

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's another shot.

Are you able to tell?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Yep, those are definitely Otos Robyn. Usually the triangular head is a good way to tell.

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech for the quick confirmation.

Cheers
TW

there really isn't much algae in any of my tanks

Do you really have to rub it in?

Otos are good at eating really small algae, the ones that you usually don't see. And yes, I also identify the fish in the pictures as Otos. I think the big black spot on the base of the tail fin is another clear sign. In general, Otos look very different from SAEs and false SAEs (your sucking fish, I assume).

One of the things I tend to do is to peruse every tank in the LFS just to see how fish look like. This is better than studying all the pictures. Unfortunately, this means that an average store visit is at least 1 hour long and as such it is impossible to bring the whole family, their attention span in an LFS is limited to maybe 10min.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club