FishProfiles.com Message Forums

you do not have a solenoid and turn the CO2 on and off manually, right? I think we talked about leaving the needle valve alone and you turned to only shut off the bottle n itself.

That's right, but it doesn't seem to work for me if I turn off at the bottle itself, leaving the valve alone. For some reason, if I do that, when I turn the bottle itself on, C02 pumps through at an explosive rate. I'm sure this is what caused the top of my bubble counter to pop & spring a leak. So I have to turn off the valve as well. I think it will just be a matter of getting to know my valve really well - harder, 'cause I don't have a dial for this (I only have one dial - gas bottle empty indicator, don't have one for the flow rate). I turned it on this morning, came back 10 mins later & increased it again (as it has slowed) & again just before I left, I re-adjusted it to faster than I need & hope it will level out to where I want it to be during the day. I'd hoped that when I eventually get the solenoid, this wouldn't happen - but if I read your post right, you had to "get to know your valve" even with a solenoid. Oh well, it gives me something to fiddle with.

The fry was a platy & smaller than the ones I have in my breeder. If it is the one that escaped the other week, it's smallness might be explained by my breeding trap fry being regularly fed & that poor free swiming fry finding little food, having to hide all day. Otherwise, it could be new fry. Quite possible, as my platy are always pregnant. At the moment I have one very pregnant mollie and platy. I've often seen fry in my tank, but they usually disappear after a day or two. Fingers crossed this time round.

I would have like it to be a harley, but no sign of any action there.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Yeah, it could be that turning the main valve of the CO2 bottle on and off causes a burst of gas, not good .
Can you by any chance make a picture of the reactor, just so I can invision your setup better?

About the fry: Yeah, harlies would have been nice. And don't you worry about your platy and molly fry, at sme point their population will explode, I promise

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have pics of the C02 set up, but first, I have one showing my blue stricta (if that's what it's called) with a leaf growing above the filter motor. Ignore the wisteria - it's new, but the plant behind it. Here's the shot. If you were to scroll back in my log to 5 April, you'd see that same plant not even reaching the bottom on the filter motor. So, I'm happy with that growth.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here is a shot of the top of my gas bottle, showing the single dial regulator.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the bubble counter

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's a shot of part of the filter media containers. The white silicone tubing is the C02 line & the black tubing coming out of the end of the spray bar is the water that pumps into the reactor. At the far right of the pic, you can see both tubes entering into the tank itself.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the water return pipe, through which both tubes pass. Note the surface water disturbance. I'm going to try to make an extension for the water return pipe, so the water is released deeper in the tank.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

I just couldn't get a clear shot of the reactor itself in the tank, so I took a pic of the box, which shows the type. You can tell from the previous shot, showing the tubing coming into the tank through the water return pipe, that the reactor is situated a little below & to the back of the return water pipe.

So, now you more or less can see my C02 is set up.

Happily, today when I got home my bubble count was around 3 bps, which is what I've been aiming for.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Wow Robyn,

That for sure was very informative.

I have never seen a setup like this, with all these things involved. I really struggeled to understand where the spray bar comes into play.

The one question I would have now is: Even if you get a solenoid, where will it go?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Afterthought

Robyn, I am still hung up on the spray bar. What is it doing over the filter? Is that how "clean" water re-enters the tank? That would be bad, much worse than any surface agitation that you may have. In this case the exposure of CO2 to the air is tremendous and loads will dissipate into the air, IMHO.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo

The one question I would have now is: Even if you get a solenoid, where will it go?

Here's a full shot of my gas bottle with the regulator attached. You see under the brass of the regulator, there is a black piece over which the C02 tubing fits. LFS tell me that the black piece is removed & the solenoid slots into place there. Then the C02 tube connects to the solenoid instead. It's lucky for me that it works like that. Don't know if I already told this story, but hubbie dropped the regulator & that little black piece snapped right off. LFS told us that Dupla do not make that as a spare part, but as LFS routinely removes that when customers buy the regulator & solenoid as a set, they had a few spares lying around in a drawer. So they were able to give me one.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn, I am still hung up on the spray bar. What is it doing over the filter? Is that how "clean" water re-enters the tank? That would be bad, much worse than any surface agitation that you may have.

The spray bar sits on top of 3 separate filter compartment boxes and all along it's length there are holes for dirty water to come out of the spray bar. In each compartment box, the dirty water drains down through the first filter layer (which you could see in the pic) & it is a black sponge. Underneath that it then passes through filter wool & underneath that again is my matrix. After the now clean water passes through these 3 levels of filter media it travels underneath the media (but still in the filter area) to join the filter return pipe that I show. So the water coming out of the spray bar is not returning to the tank unfiltered, as at that point, it hasn't really even started the filtering process. The spray bar is the way of getting the dirty water into the filter media boxes to be cleaned. I hope my waffle makes sense.

The C02 tubing lays atop the filter compartment box for convenience, to get it into the tank. My filter compartment box doesn't have too many openings for cords etc to pass in neatly and it seemed the best way to get the C02 tube into the tank, was to let it share the same space & openings as water inlet pipe. Whilst the dirty water is trapped in the filter compartment boxes & forced through the media before making it the 4th empty compartment, where the return water pipe is, the C02 tubing passes over the top of each compartment, over the 4th compartment barrier, which is empty except for the now clean water & enters the return inlet pipe, into the tank & into the reactor.

The part that has always slightly bothered me about the setup, which is the way LFS told my hubbie to do it, is the next part of the explanation. My reactor has one join for the C02 tubing (the white tube) and another join for water (the black tube) as water must be pumped through into the reactor. Now, LFS had my tank in stock & said the best way to do this was to drill a hole in the extreme end of the spray bar, just big enough for the black tubing to enter in a little way. It means that water that makes it to the end of my spray bar (without being released into the filter media compartment boxes via the spray bar holes along the way) enters the black tube & goes into the reactor. So the part that bothered me is that a small part of my water does enter the tank unfiltered via the C02 reactor.

My filter turns over 2,000 L.per hour (or 528 US gals per hour) and my tank is 43.5G. The manufactures have told me my filter is a bit of an overkill for the job (I spoke to them on another issue to do with the filter) so I hope that this high turnover means that sufficient water does pass down through the filter media & return clean to the tank & it's only a small part of the water that doesn't pass through the various filtering layers & returns unfiltered to the C02 reactor. Perhaps I should speak to my tank's manufacturer & ask what impact this modification has on my biological filtering system. I know filtering still seems to be pretty efficient, as I see the colour of my filter wool at water change time & maintenance time.

BTW, that brings me to another question. Do you use filter wool & if so, how often do you change it.

You might recall my concerns over my gravel & the pH. Well my investigations indicate I don't have anything to worry about. I'm told the gravel is inert, does not contain either coral or coal and will not effect anything. It also passed the vinegar test I did, so that query is out of the way.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Thanks for the detailed explanation on where the solenoid would go. If I see that right then all parts of the regulator are before the solenoid, including the needle valve. In my setup this valve is after the solenoid and as such pressureless when turned off. This means that in the mornings (for my setup) when the solenoid opens a stream of as hits the needle valve and may change its position slightly, which in turn could create a different bubble rate than the day before. In your case, having the needle valve constantly under pressure should actually be better, I guess.

About your filter, spray bar, CO2 setup: How hard would it be for you to get a glass diffuser? This would save you so much complexity on this setup. Your CO2 would be completely independent from the filter, just plug the CO2 tube into the diffuser and hang the whole thing in the tank, all done.

In any way, your filter bothers me . The reason to avoid surface agitation in a planted CO2 tank is to limit the gas exchange, in particular to limit the chance for the CO2 to easily escape. Your filter seems to do the opposite. Around 12 times per hour does the entire tank water pass through the spray water and is trickled onto the filter in small streams, huge surface - major exposure. At least theoretically this should mean that you lose loads of CO2. I wonder what others have to say about this.

I have no filter wool, I don't even know what it looks like. My small non-CO2 tanks are running on sponges (2 each) only, the canister of the 125G has a coarse filter pad (maybe the equivalent of floss), followed by a mechanical filter material (1l Ehfimech), a biological filter material (4l Ehfisubstrat), and a fine pad, and that is it.

Good to hear that we don't have to worry about your substrate ,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Glass Diffusers aren't available in Australia at all. But Paulus, who is visiting US on holidays, said he would pick one up & post it to me. So provided no breakages, I'll have to ask how to set the diffuser up. It will only cost me $13, whereas the reactor cost $99.95. I'll also need to replace the spray bar, or at least but a new end cap for it, to fill in the hole drilled in the end.

Re: the flow of my filter. At one point I rang the manufacturer because the flow is so strong where it re-enters the tank & the force was pounding down on a plant which it killed (it was a fragile plant. I have a Java Fern there now, and it's doing just fine.) They appeared to expect my comment & openly said the filter was an overkill. They sent me a free replacement impeller, that will decrease the turnover. I have the part but haven't done anything with it. I'm not a handy person & I don't know how to change it over (came with no instruction), plus I thought over filtering was better than under filtering.

So do you think I need to do something about. Any opinions on that would be appreciated.

Re the filter wool & filter sponges - they're probably much the same thing. Filter wool can be bought in bulk sheets & cut to the size of your filter container (it is my white sponge) & then I also have a black sponge on top of that. Under both sponges is the matrix (the biological filter media). Just wondered how often you change the sponges.

Cheers
TW

I'll have to ask how to set the diffuser up.

That is really easy, as long as you find a spot in the tank under the filter for it so that the rising bubbles can be washed into the current and as such throughout the tank. If you haven't seen it already, I have pictures of the setup in crazyred's log in this forum.

plus I thought over filtering was better than under filtering.

No doubt this is right, and I am not even suggesting your filter is overkill. I don't know how much media you have available in this filter (in volume), but I have my smaller tanks all running on at least 10 times the tank volume per hour. The smaller the medium compartment of a filter is the more often it should turn over the tank water.

I'm not a handy person & I don't know how to change it over

I would assume that sooner or later you will have to do something about the impeller, maybe not add the new one but at least clean the existing one. Your filter in itself also didn't come with instructions? Maybe you can find them online. Impellers and their housing will collect gunk and should be cleaned every few months.

So do you think I need to do something about. Any opinions on that would be appreciated.

As I said above, the flow rate does not bother me at all, except if it would kill your plants and make your fish having to fight the current all the time while they naturally would prefer stiller waters (some fish do come from lake or slow flowing environments). My concern here is only the loss of CO2.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Your filter in itself also didn't come with instructions?

The tank is one of those that comes as a complete kit & it did come with an instruction book, but it says "impeller should be cleaned every 3 months" but it does not give any clue as to how you do that. Every water change, I take off the Uplift & strainer, as well as the spray bar & clean those. It is time that I did clean the impeller, as the tank has now been set up since January. I'll have to ring them or better yet, I'll ask LFS if they can show me how.

The smaller the medium compartment of a filter is the more often it should turn over the tank water.

My medium compartment box is 26.5" long X 6" wide X 4" deep.

the flow rate does not bother me at all, except if it would kill your plants and make your fish having to fight the current all the time while they naturally would prefer stiller waters

The flow in the tank itself seems fine - doesn't seem to cause a current issue, it's just that the water pounds down into the tank, where it re-enters. Fish actually seem to like playing in it. Now that I have a Java fern there, no issues with plant kill. I'd like water to enter at a deeper level. Unless it's a problem for my C02, I'd rather over filter than under filter. Thanks again for the comments Ingo.

Cheers
TW

Forget to tell my news about new platy fry. It had been well over a month since this little girl last had her babies and she was very, very pregnant. So, I moved my mollie fry into the same container as my platy fry & thought I'd see how she'd go in the breeding trap the mollie fry had been in. On Friday morning, I popped her in, added some free floating java moss. She was quiet, but didn't seem too upset. She ate when fed. I was very lucky. We went out to tea on Saturday night & when I came home there were so many little platy's in that breeder, that I can't count them. I have no more room for breading traps, so won't be try this again until these little ones grow big enough to move on elsewhere - either to my son (who I'm trying to talk into getting a tank so I can keep some of these) or to a friend I've promised some, or to LFS. The LFS where I get my C02 said I'll get store credit - but I wouldn't expect much as he only sells them for $4.95.

Cheers
TW

As I have low lights, I don't have much in the way of variety in the tank. It is a bit of a jungle in there, the wisteria is really growing. It has reached the top, bent over itself and shading over my rocks & the java moss there. Holding off trimming it, as when I have another tank ready, I want to use the trimmings from this tank & see how I go doing that. Here are some pics of my jungle.



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

here's a close up of the same



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's a pic of the same area on 19.04.06. You can see how much it's grown.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Growth seems to be really strong, I guess you must be doing the right things

About holding off with trimming:

I would not wait too long as shading plants that would need the light is for sure not a good thing. How about this: Trim the Wisteria a little (maybe cut off the top 4 inches) and plant them in the foreground where there seems to be quite some space. It may not look the prettiest (but it may actually look good for the time being) but you have two distinct advantages:

1) Your plants are no longer shaded
2) You just have doubled the amount of Wisteria that you can add to the new tank, as the clippings by then will be ready for it.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok, good idea. I'll do that. Thanks.

Growth does seem strong and I do like the look of wisteria, but I'm a little bored that I can't have all fancy plants due to the light level. One LFS told me the highest watt per tube to fit my hood is 30W, so 3 of those makes around 2WPG, so that's still low, isn't it?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Yeah, maxing out on the light is always (or often) a problem when one buys a kit. If I remember that right then right now you have 3 20w lights, right? Did the LFS guy say how you would fit the 30w bulbs in there? They should be about 12" longer (each). And did he mention if you built-in balast would be able to handle the additional load (it may be able to do that as I remember that my 2x20 was layed out to handle 60 or 80w)?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

What I have now is 2 x 25W & 1 x 20W. The correct length tubes for my tank come in 30W as the highest. He sells my tank & seemed to know what he was saying & he thinks no problems with 30W, but that I was limited by that length tube coming in no higher than 30W. We didn't talk about my built-in ballast, but I do think he was saying all was okay.

I can't do anything about it now, but down the track I'll ask whether an electrician could expand the light cover, so it's big enough for a 4th tube, or else I have thoughts of getting rid of the hood altogether & having a glazier or tank maker, make a glass sliding top, on which I could sit a separate light unit. I may have to do something about the filter then, as it sits atop the whole back length of tank & may look strange without the hood butting up against it. But these are all pipe dreams for now. Still trying to scheme how I can get a bigger tank, before I do that. Just a bit disappointed that with all I've spent so far, I still can't grow the fancy plants. I'd love some red plants & ground cover - but for now my fish & rocks will have to do for colour.

BTW, although my wisteria is growing well, it bends over, instead of standing tall. Is that usual?

Cheers
TW

Ok,

Then let's leave the light issue alone for now, but make sure you bring it back up BEFORE you make changes to your hood .

Bending of Wisteria stems: I see that often when the plant is not directly under the light source. In this case, it will grow towards it. Another reason could be the current in the tank as plants tend to "go with the flow". And last but not least, maybe you are on your way to become a Wisteria master like tetratech who trained his plants to crawl along the substrate .

Foreground cover: you could try some Echinodorus tenellus, Pygmy Chain Sword. That may grow well enough.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

that makes sense. The very back of the tank is shaded by the filter compartments & the front of the tank is shaded by the feeding flap, and that is where they're bending towards the light.

Cheers
TW

BTW, although my wisteria is growing well, it bends over, instead of standing tall. Is that usual?

No big deal. It just means that tetratech has been working his magic on it the westeria again!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

No big deal. It just means that tetratech has been working his magic on it the wisteria again!

Here's a pic. I hope you can see my stem of wisteria laying on the substrate. It's not broken, it's just bending down from the stem, then rests on the gravel.

BTW, I'm wondering if the high nitrate level in my tap water should effect my ferts dosing. Nitrates from my tap are between 10ppm & 20ppm (closer to 20, than 10). Does that have any effect?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

BTW, I'm wondering if the high nitrate level in my tap water should effect my ferts dosing. Nitrates from my tap are between 10ppm & 20ppm (closer to 20, than 10). Does that have any effect?

I am sure you could pull something off but you will still probably have to add some nitrates to the mix. If you add in 20 ppm at every weekly 50% water change then depending at the amount of up take from your plants you could posibaly only be adding in 10 ppm if your plants suck up everything. If I remember right I am adding in 10 ppm every other day. That would mean 50% water changes every other.

You could use the water change for your first dose of nitrates but I think thats all you could pull off.


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings. Caught your pic in that thread. What was that fish you caught & how big?

Cheers
TW

Thanks Wings. Caught your pic in that thread. What was that fish you caught & how big?

Rainbow trout and maybe 4Lb give or take a few....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Robyn,

Back to your last picture:

What you see is a plant spreading out. I have seen this behaviour on various stem plants. The lower parts of a stem form a side shoot that looks just like a normal stem, but move flat over the surface. Then the nodes on that stem develop roots and eventually (in a certain more light receiving area) the stem starts to grow upwards again. This is exactly what tetratech uses for his creeping Wisteria. He basically removes most of the upright stems and lets the creepers creep .

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

basically removes most of the upright stems and lets the creepers creep

This could be good. It might take care of my foreground & then I'll be happy.

Cheers
TW

Nothing much changed this week, other than more fry. My mollie has now had 2 lots of fry since I've had her. They must have been born sometime Tuesday. Monday night she was still very pregnant & yesterday during water change I found lots of little babies hiding in my overgrown wisteria. I set up another breeding container (I have a line up of 3 across the front of the tank now) and I guess I have about 20 or more in there. There are still about 3 or 4 free swimming in the tank, so it will be interested to see if they make it or not. These little guys seem quite brave & I've seen them in the open I may have lessened their chances by thinning out the wisteria for hubby's tank. The next lot will have to take their chances - no room for another breeder trap in the tank.

I added 4 cory sterbai & 3 female guppys to the tank tonight.

Here is another pic of my creeping wisteria. I'm going to follow it's journey across my tank.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

TW,
Sure looks like Tetratech has been working on your tank! Or you took his wistiria wipe!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Robyn,

Looking nice. Yeah - seems like tetratech is not the only one who mastered the art of creeping Wisteria .

About your lifebearers: You know that theoretically Mollies and Guppies can interbreed, right? I find it very nice that you line up your tank wwith breeder nets, I am by now more at the point where I say "oh no, not another baby".

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

About your livebearers: You know that theoretically Mollies and Guppies can interbreed, right? I find it very nice that you line up your tank wwith breeder nets, I am by now more at the point where I say "oh no, not another baby".

No, I didn't know that. I'd read about platys & swords, so I don't have swords. As mollies & platys are so different looking, that never occurred to me. I'll have to move the mollie. She can be the 1st cycling fish for hubby. Her babies so far all look very much to be all mollie - so I hope that hasn't happened.

No doubt I'll shortly get to the "oh no, not another baby" stage, but I find it exciting now. My 3 breeding nets somewhat spoil the look of the tank & get in the way at water change. Bumped one last night (again) when I was taking the water for hubby's tank & it sunk a little. Some baby mollies swam out & 2 guppys jumped in. Caught them again, so no harm done, other than a bit of stress for me. Scooped the guppys out before they had a snack.

I added the female guppys, cause I only had males & I thought they were getting a little frustrated. Thought some females might calm them down.

Cheers
TW

As mollies & platys are so different looking, that never occurred to me.

Mollies and Guppies, not Platies - I guess that is what you meant. Platies and Swords will interbreed, and so do Mollies and Guppies.

How do you do the water change with the breeders on the top rim? Sounds like you have quite some organizing to do in that process.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, I did mean mollies & guppies - sorry. The mollie has been moved. I may not keep her much longer, as I want to have guppies in both the tanks & she doesn't belong in the cichlids tank either. I don't want the interbreeding issue. After hubby's tank is cycled, I think I'll either find a new home or she will go back to LFS.

How do you do the water change with the breeders on the top rim? Sounds like you have quite some organizing to do in that process.

They are a pain & get in the way for sure. 2 of them are the floating type & one is a white breeding net that hangs over the rim. The floating ones sink with the water level, but are oh so easy to bump & sink. They also get lopsided & tend to overbalance as they start to hit the plants rocks. When they overbalance, one edge can go equal or lower to water level, allowing fry to swim out & greedy fish to get in. I have sunk one of these twice. The breeding net I unhook from the rim, shove my wisteria out of the way & there is a rock I sit it on, which just keeps enough water in it. So it all means you have to keep looking at the breeders & not take your eye off them for too long while vacuuming.

Yesterday I still had a couple of free swimming fry in the tank - but I think they were too brave for their own good. They were swimming across the front of the tank, where the plants are much thinner (intentional, for good viewing). Can't see any free wimming fry today, but I'll keep watching for them.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Thanks for the info on the hassle of having 500 breeder traps in a tank . Sounds like some very tense times when doing water changes. Maybe you should try Rick's EI without CO2 (just kidding, let him tell us first how it works).

I found with my platies that the longer they were in the tank the less likely they were to eat fry. This includes the resident Zebra Danios and the one remaining Neon Tetra. I guess they like the flake food better and know that they will get enough of it. So by now I have tiny fry, maybe 4 to 5 days old, swimming in the open during feeding time. Sure, a lot still get eaten, but quite a few survive

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

There are at least 2, perhaps 3, free swimming fry. Watching the tank closely to see how get along.

Edit: 15.05.06 - no free swimming fry spotted today.
Edit: 17.05.06 - spotted 1 free swimming fry. He needs to be careful, he was chased twice, but managed this time to get away.

Cheers
TW

I haven't posted anything for a while, as there's been nothing really happening. The same old fast growing wisteria, which is really doing well. My creeping wisteria has made it halfway across my the front of my tank & I really like that. My moss & ferns are doing well too. I don't seem to have any algae. I like how my tank looks, but because of my lighting limitations, I don't have interesting plants to talk about. Ahhh, maybe one day and when I have all the pefect equipment in my dream 4ft tank - sitting empty in garage.

What I don't like was that due to a silly move, I threw my tank into a mini cycle. I had bad luck with a couple for sterbai corys that were new purchases & were in QT. They developed fungus, which I treated & thought was cured (about 3 died) but the survivors seemed recovered. Moved them to the community tank too soon & in 2 days, signs of fungus on one of them returned. Tried catching them, but with my 3 breeding traps, all the plants & the rocks, it was just too hard. Decided to treat them in situ (bad decision, I know now). Treating with sulfur, re dosing after 3 days. The instructions said continued use may interfere with beneficial bacteria, but I pushed on regardless. The day after the 3rd dosing of the tank I was watching a guppy that was clearly in distress & close to death. I removed him from the tank (guppys are always so easy to catch). I checked my ammonia, and it was through the roof & this tank has never had high ammonia reading (not since cycling). So, a big night of removing rocks to enable most of the fish to be removed & temporarily rehoused. The sterbai are back in QT & just a few guppys & one platy remain in the tank to do the cycle. A 50% water change & lots of carbon in the tank to get the sulfur out. Stole a sponge & filter media from one of the other cycled tanks, and now only 2 days later, my ammonia is back to normal. I thought it would take a lot longer.

I'm not going to move the fish back in for a week or two, to let the tank recover, and then slowly will re-introduce them back to the tank, just as if it was an inital stocking of the tank.

So glad I have a spare tank. I think I would have lost many fish if I couldn't have quickly moved them, to reduce the tank's load in it's time of crises.

So, a good lesson was learned. Never again treat in the main display tank.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Glad to hear that your main tank recovered that quickly. Yeah, treating in the main tank is not such a good idea, but sometimes you have no other option (like if the whole tank gets sick).

Also glad to hear that your plants are doing great, I think a photo would be in order .

Have fun,

Ingo

PS: check out my log (125) in a few as I am writing an update on QT fish that are sick

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Robyn,
Your observations are right on and I thought could
use some amplification for some of our less
experienced readers.

So many of us either purchase, or are given, a tank that
we set up and get all enthusiastic about. We then purchase
another, and another, and soon we get teased about falling
prey to the dreaded MTS syndrome.
Rarely do we give any thought to planning ahead and the
need for a QT or Hospital Tank.

There is a definite difference between the two.

A Quarantine Tank is designed to house new fish for periods
up to, or over, a month at a time. QT Tanks sizes will
vary according to the amount of money available, and
especially, depending upon the interests of the aquarist.
They should be large enough to house shoals or schools
of fish when appropriate. If the aquarist is interested
in larger fish that are purchased to be housed in a
large tank, then the QT tank should sized to accommodate
them comfortably.
For most, a QT tank would generally be in the 20 to 30
gallon range and should be fully equipped with a good
filter, heater, lighting, substrate, plants, and places
for the new fish to hide or claim as territories.
The tank should also house a few permanent fish too.
These will keep the beneficial bacteria alive and
thriving in between new fish.

A Hospital tank should be a small, bare tank, equipped
with a heater and a simple, air driven, inside sponge
filter and a well fitting lid. In a tank with no where
to hide many fish will become “jumpers” and a good
fitting lid is a necessity.
Generally speaking, a 10G tank is ideal for most fish.
It is small enough to accomplish easy water changes,
and those small water changes that are easily
accomplished, will make a big difference in the
small tank.
10G is easy to figure medication dosages as well.
Also, treating a 10G tank is far less expensive than
trying to treat a 100G tank.
Once the treatment has run its course, you simply
wash out the sponge filter to clean it and not just
rinse it out. I’d use diluted chlorine bleach and
then rinse it several times and soak it in some water
that has chlorine and chloramine remover in it.
Once clean and treated, simply set it in the QT tank
back in a corner somewhere and forget it till it is
needed again. Scrub out the Hospital Tank, and then
set it on a shelf till the next time it is needed.

Thanks for making your observations Robyn they are
lessons learned that will help us all.

Frank



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks Frank for the extra & very useful advice. I do have a small hospital tank. The sterbais are still in it - 4 of them. Only one show signs of fungus. After yet another 3 days of treatment, fungus is still there. Not sure what to do about this fish - as the fungus isn't budging. The other sterbais are clear, but I don't trust moving any of them back to the main tank. The other healthy fish were moved to the 20G (which is the one I recently set up for hubby - you might have read that thread). As my main tank's water is all testing back to normal, I moved half of the fish from the 20G back to the main tank tonight. After another week or 2, I'll move the balance of my fish back in if all still tests well.

Its the only disadvantage of a planted tank,it is so hard catching sick fish. But this experience taught me, that even if you have to pull the rocks out and uproot some of the plants, you have to catch the sick fish & move to the hospital. I would be good to think that someone else might learn from my mistake.

Anyway, on Wednesday (water change day) it was time for a major trim. The wisteria was a jungle and overshadowed everything else. Before the trim, you could only see wisteria and the sword. Now at least I can see the java fern and the blue stricta as well. Some of my wisteria is getting a dried out & yellow look. You can see it in the full shot picture - that's not glare, it's the yellowing wisteria. I think it might be because I got out of whack with my fert & trace schedule. The other 2 tanks don't have C02 & their fert schedule is different & I think I got myself a bit confused about what was to go in which tank on what day. I now have a little schedule printed out to make sure I get each day's dosing right. So I hope to see improvement soon.

After the trim, you can now see the power head for the filter, which is a downer, but I'm keen to see how quickly it gets covered up with now growth. The blue stricta is in front of it, so it mightn't grow as quickly as the wisteria. The front may not look nice for long (or maybe will just need lots of trimming to keep it nice) but I've planted small sprigs of wisteri in the front for a bushy look. Anyway, here is the first of 2 pics.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Last pic. Here is a shot of my creeping wisteria. Most of the wisteria in the front are individual little sprigs, but there is one creeping vine like stem of wisteria, starting from the far left corner. It has now made it to the middle of the tank. It's bumped into the sword & is starting to climb to the surface. The sword would probably make a mess of the substrate & send muck in the water column if I uproot it, otherwise I might do so. I'd like to see the wisteria make it all the way across the tank.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Looking very nice, and green, and lush, and full, and what not

Seems like things are going very well with you, you even copied tetratech's Wisteria taming abilities

About a planted tank and getting fish out: yeah, it is harder, but worth it. Planted = Happy = Healthy

I use a small stick (thin) to herd the fish to one area of the tank where I wait for them with a net.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

The tank is looking good.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Thanks for the tank compliments Ingo & Rick. I'll try that thin stick trick next time - might help. I've used 2 nets, one for herding one for catching - but that wreaks havoc with the plants. A thin stick should work much better & cause less plant uprooting I would think. Thanks for the tip.

What do you think about the yellow leaves of some wisteria? Could it be the ferts out of whack like I think, or because they were shaded too much from the light before the trim? If so, I should see some improvement soon.

I bought 6 ottos today & I'm acclimatising them in QT now. By the time I'm ready to transfer them to the main display tank, it should be fully recovered from it's mini cycle. These ottos had been in LFS for about 3-4 weeks, so I hope that means they are strong. He ordered them in for me, but I wasn't ready to take them when they arrived. Didn't know how much longer he'd hold them & thought it would be good to get them, seeings as they seem like survivors. Fingers crossed for the ottos.

One other thing, since I cleaned out my C02 reactor, there are big bubbles coming up & hitting the surface. I don't know why that should be or if it is a problem.

Cheers
TW

Nice going on the Otos, I like them very much

I would assume that, having been 4 weeks at the LFS, you should not see any major losses (usually around 50% is normal, as sad as it is), but don't be surprised if you should lose one or the other. No need to panic, it happens.

What worries me is your CO2 reactor. Large bubbles to surface is not a good thing. I checked in your log for the reactor you have, found it (page 4 I think) but I don't know how it works. Did it come with instructions on how to clean it?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I would assume that, having been 4 weeks at the LFS, you should not see any major losses (usually around 50% is normal, as sad as it is), but don't be surprised if you should lose one or the other. No need to panic, it happens

That's what I figured, they might be survivors if they made it that long at LFS. Bit concerned though, if they'll find enough algae to eat in QT (I'm using hubby's tank as QT & as you know, it hasn't been set up very long). The longest tank setup here is the main community tank & I was sorely tempted to add them straight in ('cause there'd be more algae there) but recent bad luck with new stock bringing sickness prevents me from doing that.

I've thrown in an algae wafer for the otos, but I haven't seen them go near them yet. Do your otos eat wafers?

What worries me is your CO2 reactor. Large bubbles to surface is not a good thing. I checked in your log for the reactor you have, found it (page 4 I think) but I don't know how it works. Did it come with instructions on how to clean it?

Instructions say to remove the lower screen cap & pull out the cascade (a kind of black spiral tower that fits inside the reactor). Clean it & clean the inside of the reactor. So, you can see it wasn't complicated & cleaning was easy. Don't know what I could have done wrong.

Not sure why things are different since I cleaned it (or perhaps it's just that I can see the left hand side of the reactor after the plant trim (that's where I see the bubbles). Maybe I didn't notice this before simply because it was hidden behind plants. Also, there's a series of vertical holes on the reactor & you are meant to leave one unplugged. Depending on which hole is unplugged, it controls the C02 diffusion capacity (the higher the unopened hole is = less C02 diffusion. I've noticed that mine open hole is 2nd highest hole in the series (which was set by LFS). I'll try altering which hole is the open one & see if that makes any difference. Other than that, I don't know what to try. Next time at LFS to more gas (probably next weekend) if no improvement, I'll get their advice.


Cheers
TW

Wow, a wisteria dominated tank, gotta love it
I honestly thing Wisteria is one of the best aquatic plants you could buy. It's fairly easy to grow, has a variety of leaf shapes depending upon condtions (thus difformis) and has a variety of uses as well.

The coloring of your tank is similiar to mine with a dark substrate and petrified wood and of course all that wisteria.

BTW- I have 8 otos in my tank and I drop wafers in toward the evening and they are all over them (I guess their hungry for some manufactured algae)

My Scapes

Robyn,

Unlike tetratech, I don't have to worry about natural algae as a food souce for Otos . When I had them in the QT and the 29G I also added some algae wafers. I broke them into quarters. This way, the chance of an Oto coming across a piece have been increased. I also added them to the tank when the lights went out as the platies did not leave a scrap for the Otos when I fed them with the lights on.

Your diffuser is a miracle to me, how complicated can they make them. I would not know why someone would opt for less diffusion, the more the better. Maybe it is for the DIY setups where the bottle produces more CO2 than a tank would be able to handle.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks tetratech, you should have seen the wisteria before my trim. It was a real wisteria jungle in there. Wisteria is currently my favourite, because it grows so well in my tank. My light is fairly low and yet still I can see the growth every day. I'm still concerned that it's yellowing on me, but I should probably wait a bit longer now that my ferts schedule is back on track. Thanks to both you & Ingo for the wafer tips. I'll try at lights out next time. The platies are just all over the wafers while the lights are on (even though they've already been fed). Maybe these guys just have to get the idea. Is one wafer a night enough for 6 otos - there really isn't much algae in any of my tanks.

Your diffuser is a miracle to me, how complicated can they make them. I would not know why someone would opt for less diffusion, the more the better.

I guess in that case, when I do the water change on Wednesday night, I'll adjust it so the lowest hole is the open one (which means the most possible diffusion). I had been hoping that I'd have a glass diffuser by now (you can't buy them here - mine seems to be one of the most common that I see on-line or in LFS) A glass one was being brought back to AUS from US by a friend, but it was broken when he unpacked it, so that didn't work out this time around. There may be another time though. BTW, although the shots are poor - my camera is not good on close up - here are some shots of the otos in QT. Wondering if you could tell me if they are in fact otos & that I haven't been sold SAE or sucking catfish instead. Here they are

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's another shot.

Are you able to tell?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Yep, those are definitely Otos Robyn. Usually the triangular head is a good way to tell.

My Scapes

Thanks tetratech for the quick confirmation.

Cheers
TW

there really isn't much algae in any of my tanks

Do you really have to rub it in?

Otos are good at eating really small algae, the ones that you usually don't see. And yes, I also identify the fish in the pictures as Otos. I think the big black spot on the base of the tail fin is another clear sign. In general, Otos look very different from SAEs and false SAEs (your sucking fish, I assume).

One of the things I tend to do is to peruse every tank in the LFS just to see how fish look like. This is better than studying all the pictures. Unfortunately, this means that an average store visit is at least 1 hour long and as such it is impossible to bring the whole family, their attention span in an LFS is limited to maybe 10min.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Do you really have to rub it in?

Sorry Ingo, I guess the downside of low lights is that I can't grow all the great plants, but the upside is that I don't get much algae. Sometimes just a little on the front glass that I wipe. When I first got C02, I had some on the rocks, but it seems to have cleared up.

Glad to hear mine are really otos.


Cheers
TW

Yeah, that is true. My "low light" 20G and 29G have much less, if any, algae issues. Low light, by the way, spans a broad range of wattage per gallon, I still consider my 29G with about 2.25wpg low light, maybe because it is just on the brink of high light (or medium) but receives otherwise low light treatment, with ferts maybe once every one to two weeks at best.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

Your tank is filling in nicely. That wisteria is great isn't it. Good luck with the ottos.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Thanks Rick.

Like many of the planted tank people, I've taken to not feeding the fishies on the day before water change. So that means tonight is non feeding night. Considering the new otos have only been settling in since Saturday, should I take the cautious path & feed the otos tank? There are also harleys & platys in there. If I do feed them, I'll do it after lights out & will hope that this means more chance of the otos instead of the greedy others getting it all. Any opinions?

Cheers
TW

Any opinions?

Sure do I have an opinion

I would say that you should not feed them, they will be fine one day without food, even if only in the tank for a short time.

BTW, do you see them "grazing" on all knids of stuff, like plants, glass, and substrate? Like sitting there, then eating away, followed by more sitting and eating until they move on to the next spot? If so, then they have food in the tank. As I said before, the algae that they eat is so small that you can't see it with the naked eye.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo. I'll skip the feed. I see the activity you describe, so hope they're not searching & nibbling away in vain?
QT (hubby's tank) set up is less than 1 month (not so good for otos). I bought a piece of driftwood with anubia that LFS had in his tank for 6-9 months. He said otos will nibble the driftwood, as well as the algae on it & the anubia. Haven't seen them even go near it. Followed some advice from Calilasseia & had a piece of slate soaking in water outside since Feb, to try grow some algae. Can't see any on it, but hope that it's there anyway. Not seen them touch any wafers - but who knows what they get up to when lights are out. I still have all 6 (saw all tonight for the 1st time - usually I only spot 5, but tonight, all 6 present & accounted for.

Ran out of C02 yesterday & can't refill til Saturday. Anything I should do differently whilst no C02? Should I keep ferts the same - or reduce until I can refill.

Think I killed my favourite platy yesterday by having C02 up too high. Is this possible? I went to turn off the C02 last night (no solenoid) to discover C02 was pumping in at a furious pace. Gauge indicated C02 was empty (or close to it) but earlier that morning it had shown at least 1/2 full. All my fish were floating lethargically at the top of the tank & my favourite platy was dead. I setup several air stones to get oxygen in the tank. Then put a breeding net in the tank & easily captured the weakest 3 fish (who usually seriously resist being caught, but just floated into my net) & put them in the breeding net, so if they died, I wouldn't have to go searching the tank. Today fish all back to normal & I released the fish in the net back into the tank & it is as if nothing was ever wrong with them. So I assume I nearly suffocated them with too much C02. Once the water was re-oxygenated they have seemed to revive. Does this seem a feasible scenario?

I really liked the platy that died. She was a gold twin bar, like yours Ingo. She was my only pure gold, with just the twin black lines on her tail. All my others have splashes of red, either on fin or the odd spec on the body - but she was pure gold. I don't often see these pure ones here.

Cheers
TW

Very excited. Went to LFS today (to get all hubby needs to set up his marine reef tank), but while there I spotted a pair of Apistogramma Cacateudies "double red" at very good price. Anyway, hubby bought them for me & they're in QT at the moment. The males body is yellow with a blackish line through the middle, but his fins & tails are beautifully patterned with red & black. My lousy camera doesn't do him justice, but below is the best picture I could manage. I will try for a good one of his wife, who is yellow & black, with just a little red splashed in a couple of places on her fins & tails.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here is an even worse shot of his wife. In her own way, I find her just as pretty as the male. #%@## stupid camera. I guess you'll just need to imagine how pretty she is.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

I refilled my C02 bottle yesterday, so the tank went from Monday night till then without. I see algae on my rocks & while my wisteria did seem to grow, some continued to yellow & go brown in places. Some spots even look like they have been burnt or singed.

Yahoo, yipee, I have a solenoid

Sadly, though, I lost an oto yesterday. I hope the rest made it ok. I panicked it may have been because QT didn't have enough algae, so I moved them into the community tank today, so they were only in QT for 1 week, instead of the usual 2.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Somehow, it seems like the Active Threads does not work as I thought it would. I didn't even know that you added an entry on the 6th of this month.

So, from top to bottom:

- It can very well be that the CO2 was too high. If the fish swim on the top and are lethargic then something is off. On the other hand, platies don't live very long, maybe 2 years. And on top of it, females which have a load of babies, are more likely to die earlier from the stress of pregnancy.

- I hear you loud and clear on the beauty of Gold Twin Bars . I will have to try to get a picture of a platy that I have, he/she is still a baby and a cross-breed of my sunset and my twin bar, both with probably some other strains deep in them. The baby is yellow, but has solid black fins and a black spot between his eyes.

- Apistogramma Cacateudies
A beautiful Apisto, I am sure you will like them. I see them at my LFS rather frequently, the price for a pair ranges somewhere around $30.
Like you, I agree that the female Apistos are beautiful in their own way. Although the males are overall more colorful, the females have some "special kick" to them. I love my little girl.

- I guess next on your shopping list is a good camera

- Losing an Oto during the initial phase is almost normal and nothing to be too concerned about. Did you see him/her die or did you find him/her much later? Any signs of illness? I assume that not as you probably would not have moved them to the main tank otherwise, right?

Ingo

EDIT: did you see that I have an additional log?

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On the other hand, platies don't live very long, maybe 2 years.

She was a juvenile and hadn't had babies yet. Never had been pregnant in my tank, so I'm convinced by what I saw happening in the tank with the other fish that it was the C02 that killed her & could have killed the others if I hadn't run an airstone in over night. I have never seen a pure gold one here, other than her, so I was very sad to loose her. I will keep my eye out for another. My other twin gold bars all have a splash of red here & there. I'd love to see a pic of yours.

I see them at my LFS rather frequently, the price for a pair ranges somewhere around $30.

Your lucky, they don't seem to be around much here that I can see. I absolutely love my pair & hubby paid a little more at AU$50, but I'm very happy with them.

Yes I'd love a new camera, but it's a long way down the list. Hubby's camera not a digital, but he thinks it might do a better job & then I can scan the print, so I'll see how that works out.

Did you see him/her die or did you find him/her much later? Any signs of illness?

He was fine when we went out to dinner last night - came home & he was bent over underneath the driftwood. No sign of illness, so I hope that continues to be the case, particularly as they are all enjoying themselves in the community tank.

did you see that I have an additional log?

Yes I did, I saw all your pics & can see you've been busy. Looking good

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Yeah, if the platy was a juvenile, and if the body shape was ok (sometimes they are deformed slightly from all the inbreeding) then it was probably the CO2.

The splash of red in the twin bars are rather common, probably a resistant gene from generations back. For example, all my male twin bars (all children and grand children or a mix of both from the original two females) have a pretty red dorsal fin. Given that you said you would like to see them, here are 3 shots, one of a male and two of the baby mentioned earlier (just took all 3 shots, not all the best quality)

Attached Image:

Juvenile Male Platy - Close to Adulthood

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is the baby.

I assume it is about 4 to 6 weeks old, maybe a little older. I cannot wait to see how it turns out when all grown up and fully colored.

Attached Image:

Baby Gold Twin Bar, with Black I

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is another shot of it. I just love the all black fins (even if they are not solid) and the little black dots on its upper and lower lip. I am confinced that it has to be a mix of the twin bar and the sunset as the tank has only male twin bars (its the 29), but I have no idea what would have made the fins black.

Attached Image:

Baby Gold Twin Bar, with Black II

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for all the shots. I love the little one with the black fins. A very nice looking platy. How long are they? I have 3 that were born just before my April marathon & they're probably still only around 1/2 inch.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The juvenile going on to adulthood is maybe 1.25 inches long. The baby is probably somewhere around 1/3 of an inch. Size is always hard to judge because of the magnification of the aquarium glass. I am always amazed how small the fish really are when I look into the tanks from the top. Like my Espei, they look so much bigger from the front of the tank that their true size of maybe 1" (fully grown).

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

For some reason, my hubby has been in a generous fish buying mood lately. As well as the aspistos he bought me on Sunday, he bought me a pair of Boesemani Rainbow. How do you tell male from female? Supposedly, I have a pair, but they both look much the same to me.

Cheers
TW

This is a quote from FP's own profile:

"Male boesemani show a split coloration that is completely different from most other rainbowfishes. The front part of the body is a brilliant bluish-grey, almost blackish, while the rear half is (including the fins) yellow to bright orange-red. Between these two areas, there are alternating light and dark vertical bars. The females are similar to many of the other species of Melanotaenia. Females generally have a shallower keel to their bodies, like most rainbowfish"

And you have to tell your hubby to stop, these are no small fishies that actually like their own kind as company (shoaler)

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo, so both mine sound like a male - but they were sold as a definite M/F pair. They must be fairly young, as still small. Both have the nice colouration described by you.

These fishies, & probably extra buddies, will find their way into the 4ft tank - so it shouldn't be a problem long term. No extra buddies, though, until 4ft is set up. My guppies (9 -12, maybe more, I've lost count) will be going to a friend in a week or two.

Scheming for 4ft tank is underway & the light has been ordered and I have the driftwood sitting in the empty tank. Then I just have to save a few more dollars for the substrate & tubes (maybe I'll try Eco this time around). I love the ADA, but how to tell my C02 saturation, if ADA is mucking around with pH? The thing I like best about ADA, besides keeping my pH down, is how it feels. It doesn't compact like my gravel and keeps soft & easy to plant in. Do you find Eco to be the same?


Cheers
TW

I guess time will tell if you have a male/female pair or two males

About the Eco, so far, and that is now only about one week, I love it. Tetratech is very happy with his and he has it since 38 weeks soon. I like it so much that I ordered more and I will retrofit one of my other tanks soon (will be a new log here in planted, as the original tank will completely change with the new substrate and the current log doesn't get much attention at FP, being in aquascaping).

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Is this the Eco Complete that you're using? For some reason, I thought it came wet or damp, but it's described on the Aussie website as dry. Is it the right stuff? The Aussie website was censored for some reason when I tried to add the link here, so I've linked to a US site, & the picture looks to be the same as that on the Aussie site, so seems to be the same product. But is it the one you use? [link] http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/subsubcategorypage.asp?subcatindexid=ss-pl-wp [/link]. I have to get it bused clear across the nation from Perth in WA to Sydney, NSW & 18kg (39lbs) will cost $114.50. Fairly pricey, so I'd like to be sure it's the same product as you're using, as I'll likely need more than one bag.

Cheers
TW

Yeah Robyn,

That is the one. It sure is pricey. Here in the US a bag (20lbs) goes for around $20 US, plus most of the time you have to pay for shipping (and that depends heavily on the seller company).

About the amount needed: I have in my new 40G, with a footprint of 36" x 18", around 70lbs of Eco.

And yes, it is wet as it is "A mineralogically, biologically complete all natural black substrate packed in liquid amazon" (this quote is from the Big Al's website). And it needs no rinsing .

The reason why they may say it is dry might be because it is categorized as "Dry Goods", but that is only a guess on my end.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo,

Using the substrate calculator Frank gave me, & wanting a 3inch substrate depth, here is the result http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculatorcalculate.php?width=14&length=48&depth=3&substrate=96 So 112lbs of Eco-Complete = 50.76 kg. 55kg of Eco complete will cost AU$342.00

Does this amount sound (I mean the pounds / kg) like the right amount that I'll need for a floor plate of 48inches x 14 inches?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Seems like overkill to me. Here is my math:

your tank is 48 " by 14" = 672 square inches
my tank is 36" by 18" = 648 square inches

So almost the same, about 3.5% less.

I used around 70bls for my tank so far, but I have more of a lower level on my multiple fronts. As such, I would assume that 80lbs may be enough for you, 100lbs will for sure be sufficient.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo,

I wonder why the substrate calculator estimated so much more? If I can get away with 80lbs, which is 36.2kg, I will just be able to get away with 2 large bags, giving me 36.8kg. So that about right, with none left for spare. Cost is now brought down to AU$228.00.

I guess I have around 3inch substrate depth in all my tanks. If your tank, with it's multiple depths, is only 3.5% less, will I get close to 3inches, do you think?

To get 100lbs (45.3kg) will be an extra AU$77 for an extra small size bag.

Another question, I bought an annubia today, one of the petite ones that I do not see often here. It came out of LFS's display tank and the leaves show some algae. I have scratched some off, but can't clean it all off. What is the best way to clean it. It came fairly cheap, so that's why I bought it, algae and all.

Any tips appreciated. Thanks.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Getting algae off an Anubias leaf can be tricky and sometimes impossible. What algae is it?

Sometimes it is best to simply trim off the affected leaf, this also encourages new leaf growth. Some people try to dip the Anubias in either a bleach solution or a Flourish Excel bath, but the first one seems to affect the plant way too much and the second one has to be handled with care (too much and the plant will die as well). I have recently has success on another Anubias by dripping Excel over the leaf during a water change when the leaf was above the water level and the refilling the tank right after that so that the exposure was only a few minutes. In that case, the leaf was covered in thread algae. If is is some form of brown or green spots on the leaf then I usually trim it off.

What is the exchange rate US to AUS $ again? I am rather sure that you would get by with 80lbs, in particular if you slope the substrate down towards the front. Being an extra careful person when it comes to these things (imagine you change the substrate and find out you are 10lbs short) I would go for the extra bag, if you have the spare money. I would even look into the price difference (if there is any) and maybe go for another large bag, and use the leftover to one of my smaller tanks.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's dark green discolouration on many, many of the leaves. Maybe, I will just try the excel method. I think I will take enough tank water in a waterchange bucket to float the plant & carefuly drip some excel on the affected leaves individually, but rinse it off before say 30secs for each application. Do I have to rubb each leaf? Will I see the algae come of straight away, or do I just drip it on, with no scrubbing, & the algae comes off over a few days (if it comes off?)

What is the exchange rate US to AUS $ again?

1 AUD = 0.738634 USD / 1 USD = 1.35385 AUD.

If I get the extra small bag, that will be an extra AU$77.00 (or US$56.87). If I get the larger bag, that will be AU$114.00 or US$84.20. I will need to think if my money will stretch to cover an extra AU$114 that may or may not be needed.

I bought a 2nd hand C02 bottle on ebay. Its 1.5kg (I think that's around 3.3lbs). It's twice the size of my old C02 bottle, so coupled together with last weekends purchsae of a solenoid, my trips to refill should be less frequent.
/:'

Cheers
TW

Wow, that is more than twice what we pay here for Eco Complete, at around $20 for a 20lbs bag (plus shipping of somewhere between nothing and $7 per bag, depending on specials).

Yeah, having a larger bottle is always good, that is why I went to a 10lbs bottle for the 125G

Effects on the Anubias would be slow and take days to become visible. I don't know at all how successful it would be on the hard green cover of algae. Maybe that is why the plant was rather cheap. You can always add it to the tank and only trim off a few leaves, and later do more and more until all are replaced. Make sure the plant is shaded to avoid new algae growth. BTW, I assume you tried to rub it off with your fingers already, right? As, if it would come off easily, it would have been BGA.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow, that is more than twice what we pay here for Eco Complete

I've gathered that seems to be the case with all fishy things that other countries seem to have access to. Either it's not available at all, or you have to search really hard and when you find it,the price is ridiculous. Part of the excess price is due to the freight. I can only find it in Perth (the other side of Australia) & the company includes the following comment about freight costs:- "Due to weight this item is shipped via bus freight or Australia Post ($44.50 included in the product price)." I didn't notice that before. $44.50 seems a lot to pay for postage per bag - a bit of a rip-off, but I haven't found it closer so far. I'll keep looking & if I can find it in my own state, it might become more affordable.

I assume you tried to rub it off with your fingers already, right?

I can scratch some off, but not all. Before it has all come off, the leaf is starting to tear. I'll see what I can do to shade it, but my original plans for it would have it unshaded. So, not worth trying the excel then?

Edit, something seems off in the freight pricing of this product. Just noticed that the small bag costs $44.00 to freight & the big bag costs $24.00 to freight. Doesn't seem right to me.



Cheers
TW

Of course it would be cool if you happened to know someone in Perth, or maybe someone from here at FP is from there, or there would be a local Fish Club that you may be able to get in touch with. That may save some money on the shipping.

About Excel: if you have it at home then you may want to give it a shot anyway.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, after watching my rainbows tonight it is now confirmed they are a definite male / female pair. No doubt they will be eaten, but eggs were laid over the wisteria. Water change is to be Tuesday night, so I guess I should be gentle with the gravel vac, as eggs appeared to be scattered. They were quite a busy little pair for quite a while.

Cheers
TW

Yeah Robyn,

Sounds like a busy pair to me. If I am not mistaken then Rainbow eggs are not adhesive and would be easily sucked up during a water change, so yes, care during vacuuming is recommended.

Maybe one or the other will make it though.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Funny, but going by FP profile, I thought they described the female not having same colouration as male - but mine are both coloured the same. I think the male is slightly bigger & tonight, the yellow area of the male seems larger & brighter. I hope some eggs/fry do make it, as whenever the 4ft is set up, I want a small school of 4 or six, so it would be good to have some "home growns". But odds are not high - still no fry left in the tank has ever made it. I currenlty have a few platy fry swimming, but more than likely they will go the way of all the fry.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
I just noticed your calculations when figuring how much
of the substrate to purchase.
I believe all of the calculations on the
substrate calculator are based on a standard
grain size of 2-3mm (called # 2 or #3 gravel).

I read how much that stuff costs Down Under, and shiver
each time. I think I'd stick with Sachem's Fluorite
or whatever equivalent is available instead of purchasing
Eco Complete, especially when I keep reading
persistent comments about it "wearing out" over time.

I keep hoping to see something scientific written about
it instead of persistent rumors.

I seem to remember reading a comment on FP somewhere about
the availability of Laterite, just for the digging, some
where in Australia. Someone lived in the middle of the
stuff.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank

Thanks for the grain size calculation tip. Makes sense.

Seachem Flourite isn't really cheaper, @ $53 for 7kg. I'd need at least 2 bags - probably more. Also, it's red & I stubbornly want black. The Eco doesn't need to be washed and I think that flourite does need to be washed - not sure ?? From a laziness point of view & environmental point of view, I like the "no wash" product. Sydney (in fact NSW) is in drought and we have water restrictions in place. I feel guilty about all the water I use for my water changes. I remember how much water I went through for my first 2 tanks when I had to wash all the gravel, so for that reason, either ADA or Eco complete seem like good options. Both are pricey (but so was the flourite). So far, I haven't found any Laterite & I wouldn't recognise it, even if I lived on top of it .



Cheers
TW

Trying an experiment to see if I can grow bylixia japonica (??? spelling) in my tank. Just bought the one plant, as it was not cheap & I suspect it won't grow. I must have the spelling wrong as I can't find it on plant geek.

Very nice plant though. Fingers crossed it doesn't die.

EDIT. My rainbows must be getting exhausted, they have been "busy" on & off for 24 hours now. Whenever I am near the tank, they only seem to take a break for a minute or so, before starting up again.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

another

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The correct spelling of this plant is Blyxa japonica and it needs medium light to survive and high light to thrive. A few months ago I got a few at an auction and the first thing I learned about them is that they have a major tendency to float.

Also, because I don't have my high lights on for a long duration during the day the leaves are mostly green and growth is slow (in the 125).

About your rainbows and their stamina - no comment



Nice pictures though

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the correct name "Blyxa japonica". The incorrect spelling was what LFS wrote for me, but I knew it wasn't right. I knew about the light level, that's why I don't think it will grow. LFS thought it would, due to the C02, but I expect not. Slow growth wouldn't worry me, if only it would grow. I really like it.

I tried the cucumber for the otos, but as with the algae wafers, the only ones eating it are the platys. How long did you leave it in your tank?

Cheers
TW

Too long, I think, Robyn

Wings said one should leave them in no longer than a day, but last night an Oto was still eating off it and as such I did not remove it. I guess this means that this evening they will be in there for 2 days already.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club