FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Do you really have to rub it in?

Sorry Ingo, I guess the downside of low lights is that I can't grow all the great plants, but the upside is that I don't get much algae. Sometimes just a little on the front glass that I wipe. When I first got C02, I had some on the rocks, but it seems to have cleared up.

Glad to hear mine are really otos.


Cheers
TW

Yeah, that is true. My "low light" 20G and 29G have much less, if any, algae issues. Low light, by the way, spans a broad range of wattage per gallon, I still consider my 29G with about 2.25wpg low light, maybe because it is just on the brink of high light (or medium) but receives otherwise low light treatment, with ferts maybe once every one to two weeks at best.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

Your tank is filling in nicely. That wisteria is great isn't it. Good luck with the ottos.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Thanks Rick.

Like many of the planted tank people, I've taken to not feeding the fishies on the day before water change. So that means tonight is non feeding night. Considering the new otos have only been settling in since Saturday, should I take the cautious path & feed the otos tank? There are also harleys & platys in there. If I do feed them, I'll do it after lights out & will hope that this means more chance of the otos instead of the greedy others getting it all. Any opinions?

Cheers
TW

Any opinions?

Sure do I have an opinion

I would say that you should not feed them, they will be fine one day without food, even if only in the tank for a short time.

BTW, do you see them "grazing" on all knids of stuff, like plants, glass, and substrate? Like sitting there, then eating away, followed by more sitting and eating until they move on to the next spot? If so, then they have food in the tank. As I said before, the algae that they eat is so small that you can't see it with the naked eye.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo. I'll skip the feed. I see the activity you describe, so hope they're not searching & nibbling away in vain?
QT (hubby's tank) set up is less than 1 month (not so good for otos). I bought a piece of driftwood with anubia that LFS had in his tank for 6-9 months. He said otos will nibble the driftwood, as well as the algae on it & the anubia. Haven't seen them even go near it. Followed some advice from Calilasseia & had a piece of slate soaking in water outside since Feb, to try grow some algae. Can't see any on it, but hope that it's there anyway. Not seen them touch any wafers - but who knows what they get up to when lights are out. I still have all 6 (saw all tonight for the 1st time - usually I only spot 5, but tonight, all 6 present & accounted for.

Ran out of C02 yesterday & can't refill til Saturday. Anything I should do differently whilst no C02? Should I keep ferts the same - or reduce until I can refill.

Think I killed my favourite platy yesterday by having C02 up too high. Is this possible? I went to turn off the C02 last night (no solenoid) to discover C02 was pumping in at a furious pace. Gauge indicated C02 was empty (or close to it) but earlier that morning it had shown at least 1/2 full. All my fish were floating lethargically at the top of the tank & my favourite platy was dead. I setup several air stones to get oxygen in the tank. Then put a breeding net in the tank & easily captured the weakest 3 fish (who usually seriously resist being caught, but just floated into my net) & put them in the breeding net, so if they died, I wouldn't have to go searching the tank. Today fish all back to normal & I released the fish in the net back into the tank & it is as if nothing was ever wrong with them. So I assume I nearly suffocated them with too much C02. Once the water was re-oxygenated they have seemed to revive. Does this seem a feasible scenario?

I really liked the platy that died. She was a gold twin bar, like yours Ingo. She was my only pure gold, with just the twin black lines on her tail. All my others have splashes of red, either on fin or the odd spec on the body - but she was pure gold. I don't often see these pure ones here.

Cheers
TW

Very excited. Went to LFS today (to get all hubby needs to set up his marine reef tank), but while there I spotted a pair of Apistogramma Cacateudies "double red" at very good price. Anyway, hubby bought them for me & they're in QT at the moment. The males body is yellow with a blackish line through the middle, but his fins & tails are beautifully patterned with red & black. My lousy camera doesn't do him justice, but below is the best picture I could manage. I will try for a good one of his wife, who is yellow & black, with just a little red splashed in a couple of places on her fins & tails.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here is an even worse shot of his wife. In her own way, I find her just as pretty as the male. #%@## stupid camera. I guess you'll just need to imagine how pretty she is.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

I refilled my C02 bottle yesterday, so the tank went from Monday night till then without. I see algae on my rocks & while my wisteria did seem to grow, some continued to yellow & go brown in places. Some spots even look like they have been burnt or singed.

Yahoo, yipee, I have a solenoid

Sadly, though, I lost an oto yesterday. I hope the rest made it ok. I panicked it may have been because QT didn't have enough algae, so I moved them into the community tank today, so they were only in QT for 1 week, instead of the usual 2.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Somehow, it seems like the Active Threads does not work as I thought it would. I didn't even know that you added an entry on the 6th of this month.

So, from top to bottom:

- It can very well be that the CO2 was too high. If the fish swim on the top and are lethargic then something is off. On the other hand, platies don't live very long, maybe 2 years. And on top of it, females which have a load of babies, are more likely to die earlier from the stress of pregnancy.

- I hear you loud and clear on the beauty of Gold Twin Bars . I will have to try to get a picture of a platy that I have, he/she is still a baby and a cross-breed of my sunset and my twin bar, both with probably some other strains deep in them. The baby is yellow, but has solid black fins and a black spot between his eyes.

- Apistogramma Cacateudies
A beautiful Apisto, I am sure you will like them. I see them at my LFS rather frequently, the price for a pair ranges somewhere around $30.
Like you, I agree that the female Apistos are beautiful in their own way. Although the males are overall more colorful, the females have some "special kick" to them. I love my little girl.

- I guess next on your shopping list is a good camera

- Losing an Oto during the initial phase is almost normal and nothing to be too concerned about. Did you see him/her die or did you find him/her much later? Any signs of illness? I assume that not as you probably would not have moved them to the main tank otherwise, right?

Ingo

EDIT: did you see that I have an additional log?

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On the other hand, platies don't live very long, maybe 2 years.

She was a juvenile and hadn't had babies yet. Never had been pregnant in my tank, so I'm convinced by what I saw happening in the tank with the other fish that it was the C02 that killed her & could have killed the others if I hadn't run an airstone in over night. I have never seen a pure gold one here, other than her, so I was very sad to loose her. I will keep my eye out for another. My other twin gold bars all have a splash of red here & there. I'd love to see a pic of yours.

I see them at my LFS rather frequently, the price for a pair ranges somewhere around $30.

Your lucky, they don't seem to be around much here that I can see. I absolutely love my pair & hubby paid a little more at AU$50, but I'm very happy with them.

Yes I'd love a new camera, but it's a long way down the list. Hubby's camera not a digital, but he thinks it might do a better job & then I can scan the print, so I'll see how that works out.

Did you see him/her die or did you find him/her much later? Any signs of illness?

He was fine when we went out to dinner last night - came home & he was bent over underneath the driftwood. No sign of illness, so I hope that continues to be the case, particularly as they are all enjoying themselves in the community tank.

did you see that I have an additional log?

Yes I did, I saw all your pics & can see you've been busy. Looking good

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Yeah, if the platy was a juvenile, and if the body shape was ok (sometimes they are deformed slightly from all the inbreeding) then it was probably the CO2.

The splash of red in the twin bars are rather common, probably a resistant gene from generations back. For example, all my male twin bars (all children and grand children or a mix of both from the original two females) have a pretty red dorsal fin. Given that you said you would like to see them, here are 3 shots, one of a male and two of the baby mentioned earlier (just took all 3 shots, not all the best quality)

Attached Image:

Juvenile Male Platy - Close to Adulthood

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is the baby.

I assume it is about 4 to 6 weeks old, maybe a little older. I cannot wait to see how it turns out when all grown up and fully colored.

Attached Image:

Baby Gold Twin Bar, with Black I

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is another shot of it. I just love the all black fins (even if they are not solid) and the little black dots on its upper and lower lip. I am confinced that it has to be a mix of the twin bar and the sunset as the tank has only male twin bars (its the 29), but I have no idea what would have made the fins black.

Attached Image:

Baby Gold Twin Bar, with Black II

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for all the shots. I love the little one with the black fins. A very nice looking platy. How long are they? I have 3 that were born just before my April marathon & they're probably still only around 1/2 inch.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The juvenile going on to adulthood is maybe 1.25 inches long. The baby is probably somewhere around 1/3 of an inch. Size is always hard to judge because of the magnification of the aquarium glass. I am always amazed how small the fish really are when I look into the tanks from the top. Like my Espei, they look so much bigger from the front of the tank that their true size of maybe 1" (fully grown).

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

For some reason, my hubby has been in a generous fish buying mood lately. As well as the aspistos he bought me on Sunday, he bought me a pair of Boesemani Rainbow. How do you tell male from female? Supposedly, I have a pair, but they both look much the same to me.

Cheers
TW

This is a quote from FP's own profile:

"Male boesemani show a split coloration that is completely different from most other rainbowfishes. The front part of the body is a brilliant bluish-grey, almost blackish, while the rear half is (including the fins) yellow to bright orange-red. Between these two areas, there are alternating light and dark vertical bars. The females are similar to many of the other species of Melanotaenia. Females generally have a shallower keel to their bodies, like most rainbowfish"

And you have to tell your hubby to stop, these are no small fishies that actually like their own kind as company (shoaler)

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo, so both mine sound like a male - but they were sold as a definite M/F pair. They must be fairly young, as still small. Both have the nice colouration described by you.

These fishies, & probably extra buddies, will find their way into the 4ft tank - so it shouldn't be a problem long term. No extra buddies, though, until 4ft is set up. My guppies (9 -12, maybe more, I've lost count) will be going to a friend in a week or two.

Scheming for 4ft tank is underway & the light has been ordered and I have the driftwood sitting in the empty tank. Then I just have to save a few more dollars for the substrate & tubes (maybe I'll try Eco this time around). I love the ADA, but how to tell my C02 saturation, if ADA is mucking around with pH? The thing I like best about ADA, besides keeping my pH down, is how it feels. It doesn't compact like my gravel and keeps soft & easy to plant in. Do you find Eco to be the same?


Cheers
TW

I guess time will tell if you have a male/female pair or two males

About the Eco, so far, and that is now only about one week, I love it. Tetratech is very happy with his and he has it since 38 weeks soon. I like it so much that I ordered more and I will retrofit one of my other tanks soon (will be a new log here in planted, as the original tank will completely change with the new substrate and the current log doesn't get much attention at FP, being in aquascaping).

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Is this the Eco Complete that you're using? For some reason, I thought it came wet or damp, but it's described on the Aussie website as dry. Is it the right stuff? The Aussie website was censored for some reason when I tried to add the link here, so I've linked to a US site, & the picture looks to be the same as that on the Aussie site, so seems to be the same product. But is it the one you use? [link] http://www.customaquatic.com/customaquatic/subsubcategorypage.asp?subcatindexid=ss-pl-wp [/link]. I have to get it bused clear across the nation from Perth in WA to Sydney, NSW & 18kg (39lbs) will cost $114.50. Fairly pricey, so I'd like to be sure it's the same product as you're using, as I'll likely need more than one bag.

Cheers
TW

Yeah Robyn,

That is the one. It sure is pricey. Here in the US a bag (20lbs) goes for around $20 US, plus most of the time you have to pay for shipping (and that depends heavily on the seller company).

About the amount needed: I have in my new 40G, with a footprint of 36" x 18", around 70lbs of Eco.

And yes, it is wet as it is "A mineralogically, biologically complete all natural black substrate packed in liquid amazon" (this quote is from the Big Al's website). And it needs no rinsing .

The reason why they may say it is dry might be because it is categorized as "Dry Goods", but that is only a guess on my end.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo,

Using the substrate calculator Frank gave me, & wanting a 3inch substrate depth, here is the result http://www.plantedtank.net/substratecalculatorcalculate.php?width=14&length=48&depth=3&substrate=96 So 112lbs of Eco-Complete = 50.76 kg. 55kg of Eco complete will cost AU$342.00

Does this amount sound (I mean the pounds / kg) like the right amount that I'll need for a floor plate of 48inches x 14 inches?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Seems like overkill to me. Here is my math:

your tank is 48 " by 14" = 672 square inches
my tank is 36" by 18" = 648 square inches

So almost the same, about 3.5% less.

I used around 70bls for my tank so far, but I have more of a lower level on my multiple fronts. As such, I would assume that 80lbs may be enough for you, 100lbs will for sure be sufficient.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo,

I wonder why the substrate calculator estimated so much more? If I can get away with 80lbs, which is 36.2kg, I will just be able to get away with 2 large bags, giving me 36.8kg. So that about right, with none left for spare. Cost is now brought down to AU$228.00.

I guess I have around 3inch substrate depth in all my tanks. If your tank, with it's multiple depths, is only 3.5% less, will I get close to 3inches, do you think?

To get 100lbs (45.3kg) will be an extra AU$77 for an extra small size bag.

Another question, I bought an annubia today, one of the petite ones that I do not see often here. It came out of LFS's display tank and the leaves show some algae. I have scratched some off, but can't clean it all off. What is the best way to clean it. It came fairly cheap, so that's why I bought it, algae and all.

Any tips appreciated. Thanks.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Getting algae off an Anubias leaf can be tricky and sometimes impossible. What algae is it?

Sometimes it is best to simply trim off the affected leaf, this also encourages new leaf growth. Some people try to dip the Anubias in either a bleach solution or a Flourish Excel bath, but the first one seems to affect the plant way too much and the second one has to be handled with care (too much and the plant will die as well). I have recently has success on another Anubias by dripping Excel over the leaf during a water change when the leaf was above the water level and the refilling the tank right after that so that the exposure was only a few minutes. In that case, the leaf was covered in thread algae. If is is some form of brown or green spots on the leaf then I usually trim it off.

What is the exchange rate US to AUS $ again? I am rather sure that you would get by with 80lbs, in particular if you slope the substrate down towards the front. Being an extra careful person when it comes to these things (imagine you change the substrate and find out you are 10lbs short) I would go for the extra bag, if you have the spare money. I would even look into the price difference (if there is any) and maybe go for another large bag, and use the leftover to one of my smaller tanks.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's dark green discolouration on many, many of the leaves. Maybe, I will just try the excel method. I think I will take enough tank water in a waterchange bucket to float the plant & carefuly drip some excel on the affected leaves individually, but rinse it off before say 30secs for each application. Do I have to rubb each leaf? Will I see the algae come of straight away, or do I just drip it on, with no scrubbing, & the algae comes off over a few days (if it comes off?)

What is the exchange rate US to AUS $ again?

1 AUD = 0.738634 USD / 1 USD = 1.35385 AUD.

If I get the extra small bag, that will be an extra AU$77.00 (or US$56.87). If I get the larger bag, that will be AU$114.00 or US$84.20. I will need to think if my money will stretch to cover an extra AU$114 that may or may not be needed.

I bought a 2nd hand C02 bottle on ebay. Its 1.5kg (I think that's around 3.3lbs). It's twice the size of my old C02 bottle, so coupled together with last weekends purchsae of a solenoid, my trips to refill should be less frequent.
/:'

Cheers
TW

Wow, that is more than twice what we pay here for Eco Complete, at around $20 for a 20lbs bag (plus shipping of somewhere between nothing and $7 per bag, depending on specials).

Yeah, having a larger bottle is always good, that is why I went to a 10lbs bottle for the 125G

Effects on the Anubias would be slow and take days to become visible. I don't know at all how successful it would be on the hard green cover of algae. Maybe that is why the plant was rather cheap. You can always add it to the tank and only trim off a few leaves, and later do more and more until all are replaced. Make sure the plant is shaded to avoid new algae growth. BTW, I assume you tried to rub it off with your fingers already, right? As, if it would come off easily, it would have been BGA.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Wow, that is more than twice what we pay here for Eco Complete

I've gathered that seems to be the case with all fishy things that other countries seem to have access to. Either it's not available at all, or you have to search really hard and when you find it,the price is ridiculous. Part of the excess price is due to the freight. I can only find it in Perth (the other side of Australia) & the company includes the following comment about freight costs:- "Due to weight this item is shipped via bus freight or Australia Post ($44.50 included in the product price)." I didn't notice that before. $44.50 seems a lot to pay for postage per bag - a bit of a rip-off, but I haven't found it closer so far. I'll keep looking & if I can find it in my own state, it might become more affordable.

I assume you tried to rub it off with your fingers already, right?

I can scratch some off, but not all. Before it has all come off, the leaf is starting to tear. I'll see what I can do to shade it, but my original plans for it would have it unshaded. So, not worth trying the excel then?

Edit, something seems off in the freight pricing of this product. Just noticed that the small bag costs $44.00 to freight & the big bag costs $24.00 to freight. Doesn't seem right to me.



Cheers
TW

Of course it would be cool if you happened to know someone in Perth, or maybe someone from here at FP is from there, or there would be a local Fish Club that you may be able to get in touch with. That may save some money on the shipping.

About Excel: if you have it at home then you may want to give it a shot anyway.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, after watching my rainbows tonight it is now confirmed they are a definite male / female pair. No doubt they will be eaten, but eggs were laid over the wisteria. Water change is to be Tuesday night, so I guess I should be gentle with the gravel vac, as eggs appeared to be scattered. They were quite a busy little pair for quite a while.

Cheers
TW

Yeah Robyn,

Sounds like a busy pair to me. If I am not mistaken then Rainbow eggs are not adhesive and would be easily sucked up during a water change, so yes, care during vacuuming is recommended.

Maybe one or the other will make it though.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Funny, but going by FP profile, I thought they described the female not having same colouration as male - but mine are both coloured the same. I think the male is slightly bigger & tonight, the yellow area of the male seems larger & brighter. I hope some eggs/fry do make it, as whenever the 4ft is set up, I want a small school of 4 or six, so it would be good to have some "home growns". But odds are not high - still no fry left in the tank has ever made it. I currenlty have a few platy fry swimming, but more than likely they will go the way of all the fry.

Cheers
TW

Hi,
I just noticed your calculations when figuring how much
of the substrate to purchase.
I believe all of the calculations on the
substrate calculator are based on a standard
grain size of 2-3mm (called # 2 or #3 gravel).

I read how much that stuff costs Down Under, and shiver
each time. I think I'd stick with Sachem's Fluorite
or whatever equivalent is available instead of purchasing
Eco Complete, especially when I keep reading
persistent comments about it "wearing out" over time.

I keep hoping to see something scientific written about
it instead of persistent rumors.

I seem to remember reading a comment on FP somewhere about
the availability of Laterite, just for the digging, some
where in Australia. Someone lived in the middle of the
stuff.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Frank

Thanks for the grain size calculation tip. Makes sense.

Seachem Flourite isn't really cheaper, @ $53 for 7kg. I'd need at least 2 bags - probably more. Also, it's red & I stubbornly want black. The Eco doesn't need to be washed and I think that flourite does need to be washed - not sure ?? From a laziness point of view & environmental point of view, I like the "no wash" product. Sydney (in fact NSW) is in drought and we have water restrictions in place. I feel guilty about all the water I use for my water changes. I remember how much water I went through for my first 2 tanks when I had to wash all the gravel, so for that reason, either ADA or Eco complete seem like good options. Both are pricey (but so was the flourite). So far, I haven't found any Laterite & I wouldn't recognise it, even if I lived on top of it .



Cheers
TW

Trying an experiment to see if I can grow bylixia japonica (??? spelling) in my tank. Just bought the one plant, as it was not cheap & I suspect it won't grow. I must have the spelling wrong as I can't find it on plant geek.

Very nice plant though. Fingers crossed it doesn't die.

EDIT. My rainbows must be getting exhausted, they have been "busy" on & off for 24 hours now. Whenever I am near the tank, they only seem to take a break for a minute or so, before starting up again.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

another

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The correct spelling of this plant is Blyxa japonica and it needs medium light to survive and high light to thrive. A few months ago I got a few at an auction and the first thing I learned about them is that they have a major tendency to float.

Also, because I don't have my high lights on for a long duration during the day the leaves are mostly green and growth is slow (in the 125).

About your rainbows and their stamina - no comment



Nice pictures though

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the correct name "Blyxa japonica". The incorrect spelling was what LFS wrote for me, but I knew it wasn't right. I knew about the light level, that's why I don't think it will grow. LFS thought it would, due to the C02, but I expect not. Slow growth wouldn't worry me, if only it would grow. I really like it.

I tried the cucumber for the otos, but as with the algae wafers, the only ones eating it are the platys. How long did you leave it in your tank?

Cheers
TW

Too long, I think, Robyn

Wings said one should leave them in no longer than a day, but last night an Oto was still eating off it and as such I did not remove it. I guess this means that this evening they will be in there for 2 days already.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good luck with the new plant. Hopefully it will do allright for you.

And tell those fish to get a room!

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Ingo, this morning I finally have one oto nibbling on the cucumber. Maybe he will spread the word to his buddies. He appears to be really enjoying himself there. I feel happy about that - always worred they didn't have enough to eat.

Thanks Rick, I hope it will do ok too. It's been there since Sunday and it hasn't uprooted yet

Cheers
TW

That's good Robyn,

It took my Otos also quite a while to recognize a cucumber as food. I wonder why? Don't they have in their natural habitat someone who throws them a slice of cucumber attached to a rock with string once in a while .

While I have not seen even one Oto eat on the cucumber for the first 12 hours, last night I could see at least one at a time eating away.

Once a tank is settled there will be no need to keep up the veggie feeding though as the environment will provide enough things to nibble on.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have a theory. I put a piece of cucumber in 2 tanks. In the tank with the platys, platy's were there like a shot. But no oto came near it. Where my otos come from, the cucumber/rock throwers must have been a bit slack - so they didn't recognise it as food. By 10-12 hours later, the cucumbers were being visited almost constantly by otos. Keeping with Wing's advice of not leaving them in the tank for more than 24hrs, I changed over with fresh slices of cucumber. No oto has gone anywhere near the fresh cucumber.

So, I figure, maybe after being in the water for a period of time, some change occurs to the cucumber & it now can be sniffed out by these otos. They seem to have forgotten their natural instinct to always check out rocks attached to string.

Anway, here is a picture of my new blyxa japonica. Fingers crossed for it. Oh, & there's one of my sterbai, who wants to be in the shot.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Nice rainbows! Both male? Probably just showing off trying to figure you who is the pretties of them all.

As I have said before, I have never done the veggie thing before but I am pretty sure that 1 day is about all you want to do. I guess it will start messing with yoru water after that point or something of the sort.

I would ask around about it though. Maybe I have it wrong and it is a two day thing.

Great new plant too! I wish you the greenest thumbs!



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi,
When I had Otto's, I would blanch the cucumbers and then
cut them into pickle like wedges. I'd rubber band a
piece of cucumber, about two inches long to a rock to
hold it in place and then place it in the tank.
Soon it would be covered by snails and ottos all vying
for a space on the food. I would leave it in the tank
for a day and then take it out. I would wait two or
three days, and then do it again with a fresh piece.

I would not leave the cucumber in the tank for very long
as I suspect it could start to pollute the water. Nor
would I use the cucumber as THE sole source of food for
the ottos. They need to be picking at the algae in the
tank, and perhaps some other fish foods, high in
vegetable content as well.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Hi Wings, re: the rainbows, I definitely saw eggs dropping, so no, they are not both males. They seem finished now, but for just a little over 24 hrs, they would start by doing a little dance with their mouths joining, then go side by side, with heads touching & shimmey & shake together.

Frank, thanks for the cucumber tip. My cucumber is steamed for 20 sec in the micro. I don't have any visible algae in my tanks and they never eat the algae wafers (that I can see) so I was just glad to see them eating something.

Cheers
TW

Very nice that they are dropping eggs. I need to get my hands on a few females. Right now I have two males. Great fish!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

As much as I liked my big rock, it was really too hard to handle. It was too heavy for me to lift out of the tank & was just a trap for detritus to settle under, so I decided it was time to go. One of the reasons that prompted me to take it out now, was that I had only seen 3 of my otos for about a week, but I hadn't seen any dead bodies. So out came the rock & I don't know where my 2 missing otos are, but they don't seem to be in tank, either alive or dead.

So, the rock wasn't returned to the tank & for a few days, there was just a big gap where it had been.

Here is a pic of the tank taken on 03.06.06, with the rock still in there.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

I was at LFS on weekend and came across a piece of driftwood that had Lace java fern (Microsorum pteropus 'Windelov') attached on the upper parts, with java moss attached to the lower parts.

Following are a few shots of this piece of wood from various angles.


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

another

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

another view

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Putting this in the tank meant that most things had to be rearranged. The Blue Stricta remains in the rear left corner (after trimming). The creeping wisteria was thinned out along the front, so that the wood was not covered. The sword was moved from the front, where it was too big anyway, thinned out a bit & moved to a middle/rear position. The 3 java ferns are now more visible as a group. The wisteria along the back wall was taken out & trimmed, leaving the rear wall looking a little empty - but this wisteria will not take long to be a little jungle again.

Here is a full front shot of the tank, with the new wood/plant.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Close up of the wood/plant.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's a close up of the front right hand corner, which is likely to change if the Blyxa japonica grows. It is turning a little brown, so perhaps it won't. I'm hoping that was because it was shaded by overgrown wisteria. If it grows, the creeping wisteria (from this section only) will be removed, the rocks will move forward & I'll get more of the Blyxa japonica to sit behind & between the rocks.

I feel the new set up has created more individual territory's for the fish. The new driftwood has several sides & nooks & crannies, that a fish could claim. The group of rocks also create a territory & whilst you can't see it, I have another small piece of driftwood at the back for another territory. So, if ever I decide to move one or other of my apistos here, it might suit them better than the previous setup.

Particularly if the Blyxa japonica works out, I feel I have more plant variety in the tank. It doesn't show so much in the picture, but I feel I have more distinct separate areas of plants, even if they are all still green.
If the blyxa doesn't work out, I'd like to come up with something different, as I'm not so happy with that side.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

That piece of wood is beautiful. Nice find
I think your on your way. You need alittle more color contrast IMHO.

My Scapes

With the color....maybe some brown or red crypts?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I agree, that peice of wood fits in nicely. I really like this tank, very nice.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I like this tank, and the new piece of wood (although I usually tell everyone not to get a chunker), very much as well.

When I looked at the full shot, I got the idea that a low planted area immediately to the right of the wood (I think the Blyxa is there) all the way to the back of the tank could look very nice. You know, a separation alley right in the area of the 1.6. to 1 break-up rule?

What do you think?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks tetratech, wings, matty & Ingo

Compliments from you all mean a lot.

Tetra & Wings, I would kill for some colourful plants - but when I have tried them, they all die on me. I think it's the low light. To try to get more colour in, I slightly rearranged the right front corner, so the red rocks there are more visible.

I have turned the creeping wisteria from the left hand side to start on a lap around the new wood.

Here's a close up of that section, with this small change.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Ingo, I'm glad you like the wood. I did start out looking for a piece of driftwood with branches that reached up into the upper water levels. I've never seen one here (other than a couple of pieces that were whiter shade & that wouldn't suit this tank. I think it needs dark wood & red rocks, to contrast against the brightness of the green.

When I looked at the full shot, I got the idea that a low planted area immediately to the right of the wood (I think the Blyxa is there) all the way to the back of the tank could look very nice. You know, a separation alley right in the area of the 1.6. to 1 break-up rule?

I like that idea, but may have to vary it slightly.

Firstly, what would my choices for the low plants be & I'd like to keep my red rocks for the colour contrast. I have an anubia tied onto the biggest rock in the group (that's the one that I got cheap & asked for the advice of excel on the leaves. Its' still not so great, but I think is improving). If the Blyxa works out, it could be my low plant & I'd just get more. Or else just more of the creeping wisteria? Where would my java fern go?

The problem I see with it being low all the way o the back wall is that my C02 reactor is there, as is the water return pipe. Therefore, would it work if I bunch the jave fern in the back & have the low section in front.

Not sure if my skills are up to scaping it so that the "tall" areas gradually blend into the "low" areas. But it is interesting & I'll think how I could manage it. I will wait longer to see how my Blyxa goes. I think it is going slightly brown, so maybe it will die soon.

Here's a full shot, showing the slightly altered right front corner.

It is puzzling where fish go somewhere when they die. I am convinced that I only have 3 otos out of 5 in this tank, yet during the practically total replant (only thing that didn't come out was the creeping wisteria in the front) and no dead bodies were to be seen. Poor otos.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

TW,

Your tank is looking quite nice! The new chunk of DW is much like the "thing" I used to have in my tank. Thus you probably know that I like it.

As for your scape. Just running with what LF started. Maybe run a wider angle from the front of the glass to the center point of your rocks. Then add in a low running forground plant like glosso or aquatice clover. The clover might be nice because it is a darker color.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings.

I'm sorry to hear that someone might think my wood is a "thing" But seriously, I really love this piece of wood & the plant on it. Is this http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_viewer.php?id=221the plant you mean. It looks quite difficult to plant. I'm still quite keen to see if the Blyxa will work, it's still hanging in there. Not any browner than a couple of days ago, with plenty that is still nice & green.

Ingo, sorry to show ignorance, but I don't know quite what you mean by the 1.6. to 1 break-up rule. But anyway, I'm still a few weeks away from trying this plan out.

In another thread[link] http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/29824.1.htm?7#[/link]I ask about some fish deaths in this tank & I think it's because I have a large swing in pH between lights on & lights off. pH in the morning before lights go on can be up to 7.8pH, while I was aiming for it to be 6.7pH when C02 was running. Do any of you have such high pH swings?

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I don't have much time right now, so just a few pointers:

- Otos are good hiders, even during replants. I once took all but one plant out of my 125 and found only 4 of 6 Otos, but they all were there later.
- If they dies unnoticed, other fish will have eaten the remains (not much on an Oto) and the rest decomposed. The bones are too tiny to find later on.
- An old Chinese rule derived of research is that visual harmony is generated when focal points are off center, and in particular when proportions leading to the focal point are split to a 1 and a 1.6 portion. Meaning, in terms of tanks, take the tank lenght and divide it by 2.6 (example: 26" tank length / 2.6 - 10" ) and then take that number from either side of the tank (left or right, in your case you would come in from the right). That point is where the focus should be, and leaves you with 1.6 (esample is 16" ) on the other side.
- That is a steep ph swing, but not a reason to die. What is your KH?
- Making the area where the Blyxa is an open spot would mean to plant foreground plants all the way to the back and nothing high behind it. That generates a visual divide between the bigger group on the left and a smaller group on the right.
- Don't worry, your "thing" is by far not as bit as Wings' was. He had a huge chunk of driftwood in his 40G

Gotta run to work again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now LF... I got a good deal on the thing! 20 bucks from a LFS in Chicago. It was and still is a pretty neat chunk of wood. I just need a bigger tank for it!

Make note of where this plant comes from. Maybe you should just go find it!
http://www.tropica.com/default.asp

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Sorry I kinda loss track of this thread.

The tank has come on really well since you started.You've done a very good job.

For a foreground you could try hairgrass, not too difficult or too much work.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Hi Ingo

That is a steep pH swing, but not a reason to die. What is your KH?

There must be something in this tank (what???) that alters my kH. You might remember way back we talked about my tap being around 2 or 3kH, but this tank tests 5kH. It is still testing 5kH. If not the pH swing, I don't know what else. Ammonia, Nitrite & Nitrate are all fine.

open spot would mean to plant foreground plants all the way to the back and nothing high behind it

This would mean you'd see my C02 reactor & I'm not sure I'd like that. Otherwise, it sounds good.

Thanks Wings on the plant link. Looks fiddly to plant, but if I can find it, I'll try it.

Bensaf, thanks so much for the compliment, means a lot. Most of the plants I originally had on that first plant, are long since dead. The only originals in there are the Java Fern & Blue Stricta (also called Temple).

Re Hair Grass, is this the plant you mean? http://www.plantgeek.net/plantguide_search.php?search=hairgrass For lighting, I have only 1.63WPG. Is that enough?

Thanks all.


Cheers
TW

Eleocharis acicularis - Hair Grass I would think that your light is too low for it, but you could alway only get one small pot and see how it goes. Before you add it to the tank though, let's talk about how to plant them.

Yeah, I guess an exposed reactor would not be the prettiest sight, but maybe the reactor could go somehwere else.

That KH thing is a miracle to me, maybe Bensaf has an idea

On the other hand, the higher the KH is the less of a ph swing should you experience, very strange.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,
I agree with Ingo about the hairgrass. I had it in my tank for about 5 months or so and although it did spread it become very high maintenance with all kinds of gunk getting caught in it. I was growing it with 2.7wpg and I don't think it was enough.

My Scapes

That KH thing is a miracle to me, maybe Bensaf has an idea

Something could be leeching carbonates - rocks, substrate ?

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I guess an exposed reactor would not be the prettiest sight, but maybe the reactor could go somewhere else

Ingo, do you remember way back I showed all those pics of how my C02 is set up. The C02 tubing enters the tank through the water inlet pipe, with the inlet pipe then helping to push the C02 around. My filter is one of those built in wet/dry filters & there is no option to move it around anywhere, so I'm sort of stuck with the reactor there.

Thanks Bensaf, Ingo & Tetra for the advice about the hairgrass, maybe I should wait to try that in the 4ft tank.

I guess something must be leaching into the tank - but I don't know what. KH of 5 isn't bad though, is it? I can just leave it be, can't I?

For comparison, before the water change, here is a shot of the tank.



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

There has been almost no growth since last week - not sure why. I moved the wood over, ever so slightly, towards the left - but you can't tell much. Wood now slightly in front of the rock. I was trying to get it more off centre. Reluctant to move rock out of the tank, so for the moment, the wood can't move over any further.

I don't like the right hand side, so I'll have to think about what I'm going to do there. How to blend the low plants with the high plants at the rear (still don't want my reactor showing). If I swap the high & low sides over, I still have the same problem - cause then there's the intake pipe to worry about.

EDIT: Can't help to comment on your cute new Avatar Bensaf. Is this your baby?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

A KH of 5 is fine nothing to worry about at all.

For the right back corner maybe some tall and grassy - Blyxa Aubertii would be real nice if you could get it.

No not my baby, unfortunately. That my beloved niece, whom I've pratically adopted and am seriously comtemplating kidnapping and fleeing the country.

That's her monyol face Monyol is Indonesian for pout or pursing the lips. Everytime you say that word she makes that face. Only 9 months old and sharp as a whip. Unfortunately her favorite hobby is trying to pull the plants out of my desktop tank

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ohhhh, how can you resist a monyol face . Too cute.

Hmmm, Blyxa Aubertii, I'll ask around. We don't have great range of plants here, but as I know I can get Blyxa japonica (spelling? it might be possible).

I think my Blyxa japonica may be dying though. I haven't fully given up yet. Below is a pic. It still has green, but I think there's more brown bits now.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

The anubia behind it seems to be getting better. Ingo, do you remember the anubia I got cheap, but was in bad condition re: algae & I asked about the excel treatment. Some of the leaves are still damaged, but between the otos & the excel, it seems to be very much on the mend from what it was.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

This is from one of my other tanks, but does anyone know what the sword might be. In another thread, LF thought it might be Echinodorus Uruguayensis. It doesn't really match the picture on tropica of that plant. This looks tighter & more compact, but that might be because mine is still small. Maybe as it grows, it will look more like it.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

That my beloved niece, whom I've pratically adopted and am seriously comtemplating kidnapping and fleeing the country.

Very cute, but be careful kids and planted aquaria don't mix. I made the mistake of leaving my magnetic scraper on my tank one day and when I came home 2 of my son's friends where playing some game. Let's just say it included my magnetic scraper and a couple of fish.

Robyn,
Don't give up on the Blyxa. For me anyway it took a while for it too start establishing itself. I have a feeling if conditions aren't perfect but good enough it does that.
I would try to remove those dead leaves though without uprooting it.

My Scapes

Off with the dead leaves of the Blyxa, Robyn Don't give up on it yet, it may just be treading water right now.

---

Back in the saddle!

TT:

Don't give up on the Blyxa. For me anyway it took a while for it too start establishing itself. I have a feeling if conditions aren't perfect but good enough it does that. I would try to remove those dead leaves though without uprooting it.

Nowher:

Off with the dead leaves of the Blyxa, Robyn Don't give up on it yet, it may just be treading water right now.

Are you mocking me boy

My Scapes

Only slightly, only slightly...

Actually not at all. The use of similar language was unintended, but I did want to echo your point because I agree with you. it may still be settling in, or it may not like where it is in terms of light etc. As you said, conditions may not be just right for it - a move or a change in something may be needed, but it's too soon to give up on it.

---

Back in the saddle!

Only slightly, only slightly

Great minds think alike

My Scapes

Robyn,

Don't give up on the Blyxa Japonica just yet



Seriously - are the leaves dying or just brown? Blyxa in lots of light have brownish leaves and not green ones (like tetratech and mine).

I am glad that otherwise your plants are doing well

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, I think that the amount of leaves that are brown are greater than was the case a few weeks back, but there are still a lot that are green. It's in the best position for light. The worst areas are the front & back of the tank, where lighting is restricted & that's why I placed it not all the way at the front. The wisteria or maybe nano petite will have to do for the very front. If it works, I want to pack quite a few in that area, spaced out between more of the redish rocks, so that you just get a glimpse of the rocks. I have another rock - just have to smash it up on the weekend. I'll try not to make any dents in the paving when I do it

Cheers
TW

Great minds think alike

And fools seldom differ......

Robyn,

The sword is E.Parviflorus "Tropica". It's a very small sword, definately a foreground plant, won't get much bigger then that. It's very easy and does well in low light, just stays smaller. In perfect conditions and lot's of light it won't get much more then 6" tall.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf, that's good news about sword size. It may not even reach 6" then, as it's not in perfect conditions. It's in my 23.7G non C02 tank, which also has low lights. I want it to stay a foreground plant, so perfect. I think I'll get more for that tank.

Thanks for the ID.

Cheers
TW

Not being happy with the tank, I moved things around very slightly tonight - but sill unhappy with the look.

I took out the rock on the far right hand side, which meant the wood could move over (to make the focal point more off centre). Then I bunched the java fern more tightly underneath the water return pipe & right in front of the C02 reactor.

I then added some hygro behind the wood, but it's effect is largely not seen. Hopefully, will be more effective when it grows taller. Planted some more wisteria, in the creeping style, on the right hand side of the tank. Tried to trim the brown leaves off the Blyxa, but once the lights were back on, I can see I didn't do a good job there.

Here's a pic taken after the minor changes - but they're not that obvious.

What don't I like - I think it needs more blue stricta (temple plant) on the left hand side, behind the low wisteria. The hygro needs to grow taller & the right hand side just looks a mess. Despite this, I still like it better than yesterday's picture (ever so slightly).

Is it the rocks - I'm not sure the rocks look right, even though I wanted them for their red colour? Would a small, but branchy dark piece of wood make that side look better?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

another view

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Not being happy with the tank at the moment, I'm still playing around with the right hand side. I added another piece of driftwood. For the time being I made do with the plants in the tank & took an anubia that was on a rock & tied to this wood instead. Some moss was tied on as well. When I can get some more anubia, I'll probably swap it for the moss.

To put the wood in, I had to remove most of the plants on the right hand side & I found that my Blyxa had reproduced (or whatever you say for plants). So I now have 2, and I only bought the one plant.

I bought some more blue stricta and it's in the tank, but I find it doesn't match the older blue stricta - it's leaves are different - they are much broader.

The red rocks are gone. Wanted them for colour contrast, but they didn't seem to relate to anything. I've seen some black rocks with white (a little similar to Ingo's in his 40G breeder) - I might try them. They might blend in better with the black substrate ????

I'm happier with the right side now, but it's still not quite there.

I will keep the foreground there though, but until I really know how the Blyxa will go, I'll just play around with creeping wisteria for the time being.

I'm curious to know what anyone elses C02 swing is. As mentioned earlier, I thing mine is quite high, but I wonder what the norm is for any other C02 planted tanks out there.

Here's a picture of the tank.



Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

here's a shot of the right hand side

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

last one for tonight

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

The problem that you may have seems to be coming from simply having too much green of the same shade all over the tank. Your attempt to change that with the new wood is in the right direction, although this particular setup is not my favorite, these wood pieces seem a little forced in the area. How about a Bronze Wendtii (tip from Matty) in the spot where the branches are now?

Also, large leaves plants, like your blue stricta, have the tendency to make a tank look smaller than it really is. For example, replacing the fern with a narrow leaf fern would create a more delicate appearance.

Congrats on the Blyxa babie, your environment is good.

Overall, I wouldn't mess with the tank too often, otherwise you risk to unsettle everything (coming from the guy who does only 100% overhauls is rather ironic).

My ph swings probably from 6.5 to 7, I am not sure as I haven't really measured in the big tank in a while, and in the 40 I have not measured anything ever.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The problem that you may have seems to be coming from simply having too much green of the same shade all over the tank. Your attempt to change that with the new wood is in the right direction, although this particular setup is not my favorite, these wood pieces seem a little forced in the area. How about a Bronze Wendtii (tip from Matty) in the spot where the branches are now?

I concur. My views exactly.

BTW - I'm glad you removed the rocks around the Blyxa. You have a nice natural looking setup and the rocks didnt't do it justice.

My Scapes

Hi Ingo & tetratech

I have tried these Bronze Wendtii a couple of times - they don't like me or my tanks & always melt. In one of the tanks, it may have been caused by being moved - the other 2 tanks - don't know, just didn't work. I wondered if the bronze versions needed more light, but I don't really know why they melt? Will get another when I can & give it another try.

Re: the broad leaves on the blue stricta. I have this plant in all my tanks ('cause my original plant reproduced enough that I've planted my other tanks with it). The original plant has quite narrow leaves & the new one I bought (under the same name, but from a different source) is definitely not the same plant. Much broader leaves & even a different colour. I'll get another of the thinner leaved version from my usual source & take this one out.

I miss my big red rock that previously was my dominant hardscape & I can't quite cope with the right hand side not having any hardscape in it. The wood may yet go, as you both suggest it should - but I'm not ready to give up on it yet, unless I can find a different, less forced piece to replace it. I agree it doesn't quite work, but I like that one of the tall upright pieces covers that pesky C02 reactor I don't want seen. I had thought to cover the uprights heavily with anubia nana - you don't think that will help? I know you don't like it, but is there any way you could think of that would help make it look less forced?

For example, replacing the fern with a narrow leaf fern would create a more delicate appearance.

Are you meaning that I should take out the java fern I have behind the wood & replace it with narrow leaf fern? Is it still a java fern - just a narrow leaf version or is it a completely different plant?

I'm pleased about the Blyxa, but wonder how on the one hand, it can have brown stems, but on the other hand can be reproducing itself.

I'm glad you removed the rocks around the Blyxa

I know, wanted them to bring in red - but they just looked odd. What about some of the rocks I've seen that are similar to Ingo's in the 40G breeder? Or do you think they wouldn't work either?

Thanks for the input. I'll keep trying, within my limited scaping talents, to try to get this looking better.

Cheers
TW

I'll keep trying, within my limited scaping talents, to try to get this looking better.

Hey Robyn, the better you get the more they (we) bash you for not being perfect

Keep in mind that overall you tank looks very nice and about 80% of tanks (that call themselves planted) are not looking anywhere near as good. Don't let us fools drive you insane, except if you want us to do so .

About a plant with different leaf shape etc.:
Albeit you may well be right that this is a different growth form and such, it simply may be the same plant grown under different conditions. Take my narrow leaf ludwigia, for example. After having moved a few stems from the hight light/tech 125 to the medium light low tech 20, the old shoots produced new stems (after initial trimming) with leaves that I would almost classify as needle leaf ludwigia, if I wouldn't know better. I would guesstimate that, per leaf, the mass has shrunken by about 70%. And it took about 4 months to do so.

About Ingo Rocks :
I think that they would work, it is just that we all looked for some color variety into the reddish theme. Red stands out a little more than a black/white rock.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey Robyn, the better you get the more they (we) bash you for not being perfect

That's ok, I'm tough, I can take it

Don't let us fools drive you insane, except if you want us to do so .

Wouldn't ask questions, if I didn't want the response.

Still not giving up on the wood just yet, so thinking of what anubia to order. Thought slightly bigger one for the horizontal & some nana climbing part way up the vertifical.

Was thinking of barteri coffeefolia - cause it's described as a low variety & because the new leaves are red-brown - but also remembering Ingo's advice about narrow leaves, so another choice is angustifolia ('afzelli) described has having long narrow leaves. Keeping in mind that this is the area where I'm aiming to keep the plants low, I don't know how tall this plant gets.

What do you think would work best?

EDIT: An old plan to get a glass diffuser via Paulus, has now been reactivated. It just has to make it, via Australia Post, from Brisbane to Sydney in one piece & that by no means, is a certainty. Fingers Crossed.

Cheers
TW

You may underestimate the size of a Barteri, no matter which. Except if it is the same as Anubias Nana coffeefolia, which gets to the size of a regular Nana. Somewhere hidden in my 125 are a few afzelli, with leaves of about 5 to 8 inches, on maybe 3 inch stems, not the shortest plant.

Paulus - aka upikabu - will for sure pack it as good as he can, the way I know him. Let's hope that your postal workers show at least some responsibility over the goods that they have to handle.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

leaves of about 5 to 8 inches, on maybe 3 inch stems

That's way too big for me. This is the link for the plant & I thought it was being described as small - but sounds like I should just stick with nana??

http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=874

Anyway, my Blyxa continues to baffle me. It multiplies into 2 plants, but the inner leaves are turning a reddish brown - more red than brown. Some of the leaves are now melting - I don't think it appreciated me moving it to separate the 2 plants.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

My bad - I did some more research on the coffeefolia and it turns out that the doubts that I had with regards to the relationship between Nana, Barteri, and Coffeefolia were true. So here is a clarification:

- Anubias Nana is actually an Anubias barteri var nana
- There is no such thing as a nana var coffeefolia, the real name is Anubias barteri coffeefolia, as you stated initially, before I got you all messed up.
- As such, the coffeefolia should be about the size of a nana and add some color to the tank (and a different leaf structure, more rippled than the nana).
Sorry about that

About the Blyxa:

Now here is something that I tried to point out all along: a reddish plant color is a healthy Blyxa that gets enough light to form this color. Some leaves will always wither away, as long as they are not all the new ones that the plant produces.

Hope this helps,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo,

I will order a coffeefolia & hope that I get some of those new leaves that are red/brown. I guess as they age they turn green, but at least I have the chance of some colour.

Yippee, yahoo for the Blyxa. I was hoping that was the case, but didn't want to suggest it might be so. I made sure there's nothing to shade the blyxa & they are directly under the tubes, so it gets the maximum light. I will order some more of these. Hopefully the red colour & them multiplying into 2 plants, means it will be a stayer. Yay, more red in my tank

Even though I have low light, I might even buy one red stem plant just as a little experiment. All previously died on me, but that was without C02.

Cheers
TW

Hoping someone wouldn't mind checking out this link for me http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=1493 The picture looks different to my Blyxa. It's heaps cheaper at this site ($7.95) where as my LFS wants about $20 or $25 for it.

Is it the right plant - it might be just a poor sketch?

Also, which one of these descriptions in general should I avoid. Some plants are described as "submerse" and others as "emerse" - which should I be avoiding?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers
TW

Personaly would rather have submersed growth so the plant doesn't have to change over. Though I have heard some plants do not ship as well this way. Just my two cents.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

The plant in the link is Blyxa Japonica. Just the pic from tropica is what the plant would look like in about 6 inches of water !

Don't hold out much hope of red from the Coffeefolia. The stems are red but are hard to see under the leaves. The new leaves have a yellowish/brown color as they emerge but they change to dark green in a couple of days. Beautilful plant but it doen't produce a lot of leaves.

For an easy red plant try Altherena Reineckii "Scarlet Temple" easy plant will stay red even when the light not so good.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Wings & Bensaf

Well, I have given up on coffeefolia anyway, as tropica said it grew quite high (15-25cm).

I looked up http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=861and it looks good.

I guess it's not worth trying Ludwigia inclinata http://www.aquariumproductswholesale.com/cart.php?m=product_detail&p=854 What do you think - no chance in 1.6wpg?

EDIT: I may not have red plants, buy I'm really happy with my rasboras these days. They have have coloured up a really nice bright red, so I hope that means they're happy in there. Here's a pic - I know, I know, they're fuzzy - but they're red too Pic doesn't capture they're full beauty as in real life they have such brightness, are much redder, and are really lovely to watch the small school of red crossing too & fro

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Antoher question - I have some in my previous post too.

Is there a difference between chain sword & pygmy chain sword. There is something described as chin sword for sale on ebay - says it gorws to 7-9cm in height. Does pygmy stay smaller than that, or are they the same plant.

Also, if I were to try hair grass, how do you trim this without making a gastly mess it the tank. Is there a trick to it. I can only imagine that I will a lot of trimmings floating around. I the float (ie rise to the top, I guess I can scoop them out with a net - but I can't think of another way to do it)

Any thoughts?

Cheers
TW

Sorry, I'm bombarding here with questions. Thinking of putting the 4ft tank on hold, & instead trying to upgrade the lighting on the current tank. I don't know if I will go ahead with this plan, as it might look a bit odd, but here goes.

I will remove the front section of my hood altogether, leaving still insitu the existing trickle filter that runs atop the whole back length of my tank - that is the bit that will look odd. Then order a new 24" pc light unit that holds 2 x 55watts, each on a sep. power cord. This will give me the following lighting options:-

when 1 light is on, I will have 1.26wpg
when 2 lights are on, I will have 2.53wpg

I have compared this to what I was told would be a good configuration if I did the 4ft tank & the wpg work out almost the same. The only difference is, this tank is a deeper tank. My 43.5G tank is just around 23.5inches - so the light has to penetrate a further 3.5inches than it would have on a 4ft tank (I think it was 20inches - but maybe only 18inches. If 18inches, then an even greater difference in depth to penetrate.)

I am even confusing myself with this waffle (although in my head it is picture clear - just can't transfer it to words).

Do you think that it is worthwhile me buying this light for this tank. My goal for doing this will be so I am less limited in plant choices (although we have less here than US anyway) and so I can throw in some red plants. Will the light be sufficent for my goal.

Thank you

Cheers
TW

A few further changes were made at water change time. The larger leaved blue stricta was replaced with the thinner leaved version. The hygro was removed, trimmed & replaced. My large fern wood was raised (by sitting on top of another piece of driftwood) so that you can see creeping wisteria, then wood, then the fern, & then the stem plants behind. To the right hand side, I took out the previous week's piece of wood & replaced it with 3 new thinner pieces. Also thinned out the java fern & only put back the fern with smaller leaves. I haven't been able to find narrow leave java, but if I ever find it - that's where it will go. The Blyxa never recovered from my replanting last week, so it's gone. But 6 new Blyxa have been ordered. I'm trialling some chain sword at the front. At the moment, the right hand side needs lots more ground plants & anubia nana for the wood - but these things will have to happen gradually. Plus I have to decide how I feel about the wood first.

Here is a full tank shot.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

close up of the new wood & plant arrangement. The wood has been in there for 24hrs & some of it has darkened to match the other wood in the tank, while some hasn't. Hoping that as the wood absorbs more water, it will all turn darker - as in different parts, the same piece of wood can be darker or lighter. Also, imagine that eventually all the substrate will be planted with low plants (chain sword & blyxa,ricca on rocks - with hair nets of course).

Something else in this tank is bothering me. I've mentioned previously that my water from tap is around 2 or 3kH at most. This tank previously tested 3kH, then 5kH, but one day last week it tested 7kH, so something in there is raising kH. Now all my rocks are out - I'm only left wondering if it is my gravel. I remember a LFS telling me that black gravel can effect my pH & I did the vinegar test on it & checked with where I bought it. Vinegar gave no reaction & LFS of purchase told me it's inert, but with no other rock in there - what else can be causing the kH to go up, if not the gravel. I'm going to watch this & I'm starting to consider whether I should pull the tank apart & replace the soil with either Eco or ADA. I'm hesitant to use the ADA, cause how do I tell my C02 level if my ADA soil is altering the pH? But Amano uses it, so it must be ok. Guess I'd just have to go with counting bps. I do like the ADA in my non C02 tanks, but would C02 bring the pH down even further.

I wonder whether anyone on this forum uses ADA & C02 togehter & what experiences they've had with the pH and if it drops too low.

ADA & Eco Complete would cost me around the same - although I think I've bugged an on line supplier enough that he's thinking of getting the Eco & he said he'd do it cheaper if he does.

Still I'm not rushing into the decision to change the substrate - but I don't like the kH altering on me - so I'll continue to think about it a bit longer.

Also, in an earlier post I asked a question about an idea of changing the lights. Wonder if I'm on the right track with what I'm thinking of getting.

Thanks.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Robyn,

I think that the new wood looks very nice, although I am sure you will still tinker with its exact positioning and such. Also, the area of the wood is now either too empty or too full. With that, I mean that is is too open to stand its ground compared to the left side, but not open enough to be considered a truely open space.

About the light question: is that the one where 2 lights would give you 2.53wpg? That sounds good, is for sure not too much, but will maybe limit you on some plants that need really high light. 2x65W, if available, are an option as well. And - given that that can be fired individually, it is just a question of how long to have both on at the same time.

Hope this helps a little,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo, maybe next week I'll remove a piece of wood, although I wanted lots to help bring my pH down a little. When C02 is off, this tank can creep all the way up to around 8pH.

I really can't (or at least I can't yet) cope with this side being completely open & can't think how I could make it work that way. By that I mean I don't think I have the skill to gradually have the stems sloping down to the open space. Or is the idea that the last stem still remains high - but tucked behind the larger ferned wood & then suddenly all becomes low beyond?

In the meantime until or if I'm able to go low completely, I'm just playing around with how it might look with branchy wood & low grassy plants. Who knows how this side will end up - I certainly don't

My tank is an awkward length & as usual, my complaint is we don't have a full range of possibilities open to us over here. There doesn't seem to be a compact light the length to fit my tank. My tank is 32inches, but the 30inch fittings I've found only take fluorescents. To get a PC, the biggest (that is not too big) is 24inches & it only comes in a 2 x 55watt combo. Although I didn't actually ask if it will accept any larger watt, the impression I got when speaking to the sales staff was that this is only available in that wattage & that there's no other suitable choice - although I will ask more questions. I will make sure whatever I end up with, will be able to be fired separately.

Thanks for comments.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

Sorry about me being so forgetful, I guess I am getting old. I never seem to remember all the light issues that you folks have going on down under, maybe it is because it is almost uncomprehensable (sp) over here that you cannot pick from at least 5 providers to get exactly what you need.

Open side of tank: Have you seen my 29G log lately? If you compare the left and middle section of your tank to mine, they are almost identical. You be the judge ...


Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Re: the lack of availability. It's a catch 22. I keep getting told they're not available here 'cause there's no demand for them - but if they're not in the shops on display & being promoted in the 1st place, how can they expect the public to demand them.

Somehow, I don't seem to have your 29G log on my active list. Hmmmm, I'll go looking for it now.

Cheers
TW

Yes, I see what you mean & your 29G tank looks really nice that way. I see 2 problems that may prevent low plants that require medium/high light working in the very rear of my tank:-

1. My wet/dry trickle filter sits atop my tank, at the rear. It runs the whole length of the tank & is 6inches wide. No direct light hits the back 6 inches of tank. My rear stem plants always bend forward, to reach the light. So I don't know if pygmy chain sword or Blyxa would be able to grow at the back.

2. My water return & C02 reactor would be exposed & ugly. blah blah blah, I know I've said that before.

Despite that, if I go ahead & get a new light, I might try the dwarf chain sword along the back & see if it will grow. Don't think it would be worth trying until I at least have new lights though.

Stage 2 of my tank upgrade would be to replace the existing filter with a cannister filter - but that is even further down the track. Cash flow prevents that right now.

I think it will be a while before I get this to a point where the right hand side is ok.

My otos like the new wood though

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

With the last 6 inches getting no light, do you mean all the way to the bottom of the tank? That would be aweful. Chain Swords don't grow tall and if you move your light further to the front maybe enough will reach the lower back parts for your plants to grow.

No money for a filter? You better start winning some of the marathons you run, the price money should pay for one

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well I suppose it gets some light, because I can still see there. But above that back 6inch wide block, running the length of the tank is the black bottom of the filter which sits on top & must to an extent, shade the plants underneath. Maybe if/when I get a new light & change the hood, I'll make sure there are good reflectors in the light to help this out.

When I win all the marathons (yeah, right) I'll put the prize money to a new eheim cannister filter, make the tank top all glass - problem solved.

Anyway, by moving a freestanding light fitting to the front, I will get more light at the back? I'll try that too (when/if I get light).

Cheers
TW

Anyway, by moving a freestanding light fitting to the front, I will get more light at the back? I'll try that too (when/if I get light).

What? You mean another light, further to the front, but still on top of the tank, right? That may work too, but it is a longer way from front top to bottom back than it would be straight down, I also believe it would make plants grow forwards (towards the light, if they can).

I think the best thing would be a different filter. Do you guys have the Hagen AquaClear HOBs available? I am sure that the 110 would be more than what you need. On the other hand, this would still be a problem with some surface agitation and CO2.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

you move your light further to the front maybe enough will reach the lower back parts for your plants to grow

No, I was referring to this quote from your earlier reply. I thought that you meant that when/if I get my new light, if I push it to the front, somehow more light reflected to the back. I have obviously not understood what you mean. I can be a bit slow at times.

I think we have those, but I would like to go the cannister route. I'm hoping next year when my daughter leaves school, I can get that eiheim filter & change completely to a glass top.

If I get the new light, my hood - which takes up 3/4 of the tank top space, will be replaced with glass. I rang the light manufacturer today (LFS gave me his number). I found it hard to understand why they make a 30inch in fluro only & the compact in 24 & 36inch. I hoped it was an error, but it seems I will have to get a 24inch fitting to go on my 32inch tank if I want compact, but still faced with the problem that the stand for the light is made to fit over the edges of the tank (it won't sit flat on tank glass top). I'm to ring the boss back on Monday to see if there is any solution. If not, will have to search out the hardware store. I don't really want to risk putting a strong light directly on my glass, as it may get hot. The ones here do not have the fans that I've heard you mention yours have.

Cheers
TW

I'm hoping next year when my daughter leaves school, I can get that eiheim filter & change completely to a glass top.

Why - are you going to sell off all her stuff that she will leave behind

I think you understood the light thing just fine, moving it forward is what I had in mind. It was me who didn't get it when I asked about an extra light even further to the front.

I have no doubt that it would be possible to rig something onto a light fixture to make it be elevated over a tank glass. Maybe we should get Matty on the case

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Why - are you going to sell off all her stuff that she will leave behind

I hope that she will not be going anywhere soon, but NO MORE SCHOOL FEES. YAY YIPEEE YAHOO. University fees can be hexed (means deferred & later when she is a wage earner, paid back out of her salary bit by bit (deducted like tax is).

Cheers
TW

A week or so ago I bought a 6 pack of Blyxa Japonica on ebay & it hasn't turned up yet - so I emailed the seller to see if it had gone astray. He told me shipment was delayed, but has been sent now & to make up for the delay he's added some extra Blyxa, lily grass + banana lily to compensate for this late shipment.

Does anyone have experience with lily grass or banana lily, or know what light requirements they need.

Cheers
TW

Robyn,

First of all, it is always nice to get a freebee
Secondly, rarely are they any good, either because they are not prime plants within the species, or they are cheaper plants

I don't know what the Lily Grass would be, but the Banana Lily seems to be the Banana Plant, Nymphoides aquatica as can be seen here. Overall, pretty ok, but not my favorite, albeit I never had it.

I would say, if it comes for free and you have a spot for it, then use it.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Robyn,

The banana plants are fun plants. Not very demanding you just plop them in and they kinda get moved around by the current and fish. They will grow long leaves that will go to the surface and then open like a little lilly pad. If it is in fact the plant the Ingo refers to.

BTW - I might have missed something, but what wattage are you growing the Blyxa in?

My Scapes

Thanks Ingo & Tetratech for the replies. So does that mean the banana plant is not a foreground plant?

BTW - I might have missed something, but what wattage are you growing the Blyxa in?

This answer is longer than it should be, as I'm playing around with a conversion idea. Currently, I'm only running 1.63wpg. I have a 2 stage conversion plan.
Stage 1.
a. Remove front section of hood altogether & replace with a glass lid.
b. leave insitu existing trickle filter that runs atop whole back length of my tank - This will will look odd - I know.
c. Order 24" pc light unit that holds 2 x 55watts, each on a sep. power cord.

Maths is far from my strong point, but I think this change will give me:
when 1 light is on, I will have 1.26wpg
when 2 lights are on, I will have 2.53wpg

Tank is around 23.5inches deep & 32inches long – will this light be enough?

Why don't I get a 30inch fitting you ask? Because that is only avaiable as a fluro light fitting. Why don't I get 65watt lights you ask? Cause we have a lousy range & that's what I'm stuck with.

Ingo, the stand for the light problem is solved (spoke to manufacturer, who said he will cut off the overlap part of stand that needed to fit over side of tank, so that it is able to sit on a flat top, eg glass lid).

He has also given me the option of paying the price of a 36" light fitting, that he would cut back to fit a 32"tank. I thought this sounded good, until he said that it would still only contain the 2 x 55w tubes & I would be paying $100 more. So, now I have to decide if I'm willing to pay $100, just so the fitting fits the tank (I read your comments Tetratech in your log where you say you think it looks better if it fits) but $100 is a lot more to pay & that $100 could go towards me completing stage 2 sooner rather than later.

Stage 2
a. replace existing trickle filter with a cannister filter & buy extra glass top to fill the space previously filled by the trick filter.

I can't decide what to do. I am the sort that often prefers to wait & do nothing, until I can afford the right choice. The last thing I want to do is spend the money on the light, only to be not happy with the look.

Tetratech, does it bother you a lot that your light doesn't run the whole length of the tank? What would you do? Would you spend the $100 extra, to make the light casing longer, even though you get no more wpg for your money?

I'm not sure which path to take here.

All comments would be appreciated.

Cheers
TW

Tetratech, does it bother you a lot that your light doesn't run the whole length of the tank? What would you do? Would you spend the $100 extra, to make the light casing longer, even though you get no more wpg for your money?

Do you mean from an aesthetic point of view or a functional one. From an aesthetic point of view it would probably look alittle better if it went all the way across and once on those arms tha lift it about 1.5 inches, but it's on little rubber feet and it doesn't really look bad. The other options are too hang it from the ceiling. I know coralife for example does make a cable specifically made for my light. I am also toying around with putting a canopy on my tank that would cover the light. If I do that my light being shorter than the tank would make taking the canopy off and on much easier.

From a functional point of view it doesn't affect me, but I also don't have highlight plants on my corners, but I really don't see much shading on the corners, looks like the spread is pretty good.

Bottom line is, you won't have much of a problem either way so it's really up to you. There would be plenty of ways to scape the tank if you went with the shorter light and corner shading became an issue, but $100 is a personal thing so I would go with your first instinct and not too crazy over it.

Hope I didn't confuse you more

My Scapes

Thanks Tetratech

Yeah, I'm meaning from an aesthetic point of view, because either way I'm stuck with the wpg given by the new fitting (2 x 55W). The light will be on arms that raise it, not rubber legs.

I'm reading between the lines of your post & guessing that the length issue does aesthetically bother you, or else you wouldn't be considering those other options (hood or hanging from ceiling).

I'm not bothered too much about the edges of tank, I'll keep lower light plants in those sections.

when 1 light is on, I will have 1.26wpg
when 2 lights are on, I will have 2.53wpg
Depth of tank: 23.5inches

Is the new wattage I'll get worthwhile making the changes. Will it let me grow the highlight plants that I'd like to try?

Thanks

Cheers
TW

I'm reading between the lines of your post & guessing that the length issue does aesthetically bother you, or else you wouldn't be considering those other options (hood or hanging from ceiling).

That's pretty good Robyn, it bothers me to the point that it would probably look alittle better, but it still looks good (I'm also very particular with these things. As you might know I purposely put a black background, black intake and black heater on my tank so they wouldn't stand out.

Anyway as far as the lighting, you would have pretty much my lighting WPG 1.3 and 2.7, but your tank is smaller and deeper so it wouldn't be as intense. Let's put it this way 2.5 is much better than 1.6 and it would allow you to grow alot more plants than you are growing now. Would it allow high light plants, probably some, not all, but it's definitely worth the move up IMO.


My Scapes

Thanks Tetratech

I'll have a think now about what I want to do.

Now, plants have arrived & I can't figure out how you are supposed to plant these banana plants.

Here's a pic of the 1st one. Are the long thin things the roots that I plant - but they seem to be pointed the same direction as the the stem & leaf? What to do?

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Here's the 2nd one. Do I put all those lower long green stems in the substrate. Are they the roots? I'm confused?


Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

The "Bananas' are actually the roots and you could push them into the substrate. I've had those in the past and never really planted them I just put them in and they kinda sunk to the bottom, but that was before I was into planted aquaria. When the leaves get big and head to the surface the plant used to rise up from the buoyancy. Think of them as a small pond lilly, the leaves will head for the surface and open up like a pond lilly. It's not a full plant it throws of long thin leaves that uncurl at the surface. I believe it's more of a pond plant, but there actually fun to have in aquariums.

My Scapes

Those "bananas" are long - can I trim them before planting them?

Cheers
TW

Hi,
Banana plants are "neat" and draw their name from the
banana looking tubes that sprout roots. The green tubes
are NOT the roots. If you plant that plant so the green
tubes are buried in the gravel the plant will die.
The "bananas" are actually the equivalent of a camel's
hump. They are the storage sites for the plants nutrients.
The correct way to plant them is to set the plant so
the bananas are in contact with the gravel, and white
roots will grow out of the base of the bananas into the
gravel and anchor the plant.

For the "odd shaped" one, I would suggest that you use
line and somthing to anchor the plant so that the
bananas are in contact with the gravel. The plant will
naturally turn the leaves upward to the light over time.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

The green tubes are NOT the roots.

Well I guess that is based on ones interpetion of what a root is. The bananas are put of the plants root system (root tubercle) and can be partially buried in the substrate to anchor them down.

As I said the "bananas" could be pushed into the substrate I didn't say "buried". It's similiar to a potato. A potato is a root, but it also grows smaller roots below it.

My Scapes

Those are some unusual looking banana plants, never seen bananas that long. Usually they're shorter and fuller. It'll be interesting to see how they grow in and adjust...

---

Back in the saddle!

hi robyn,

just had a brief read through your log - you are so much more 'into' the whole planted thing than i am! - i have a 6 foot main tank, fully planted with various swords, including amazon and ozelot, and green tiger lotus. i fertilise with sera florena tabs about once a month and do nothing else, aside from a heavy pruning every 2 months or so and a 40% water change once a week. i have two sets of lights, but they are just 'normal' aquarium bulbs, one lot on from 7am - 9pm, one lot from 11am - 2pm.

algae issues are solved by my faithful sturisoma panamense who eat pretty much all of it, and when i need to give the front glass a scrub, i do. my fish are beautiful and breed regularly (not the sturisoma - that would be TOO exciting!!!), and so while that's the case, i leave well enough alone.

my other small species tank is a 30-litre self-contained unit, planted with anubius and small swords and housing my lovely triple-red cacs, who have just bred for the first time - i only got them 3 weeks ago.

yes, i am in sydney - the inner west. my boyf and i have just moved back here after a year in melbourne. where do you do your fish-shopping? i'm a big fan of slippery little suckers and st george aquariums.

i put some info re: film canisters on ingo's thread. i am sure that they are fine regardless of which company they come from. you can easily glue them to a rock to anchor them and then plant and build around them, or just wedge them under driftwood etc - whatever takes your fancy. how many apisto's do you have?

regards,

justin

Thanks Frank, tetratech & NowherMan6 for the banana plant advice. I wasn't around at all yesterday & didn't know what to do with them, so I have them free floating in some water. Now I know what to do, so thanks for that. I'm not sure if they really "fit" in my tank, but you all seem to say they are fun plants. If I follow you Frank, I just need to place them on the substrate & let them do their thing - may have to fiddle with the funny shaped one, as you say. NowherMan6, these were freebies to make up for a late delivered order, so that may explain why they are unusual looking.

Thanks Justin, I read all your comments - here & in Ingo's log too. Thanks for that. My apistos aren't in this log. They are in low tech tanks, here http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28750.6.htm?138# & here http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28921.2.htm?39# My camera & skills are poor, but you will find various pics of the apistos in the logs. In my 23.G (90L) tank I have a pair of Apistogramma Bitaeniata. I bought this pair from B & C Aquarium @ Matraville. The female recently had her 1st brood (2nd eggs, but first hatching). I only ever saw 5 of them free swimming & she is now continuing to guard her final survivor, who has been free swimming for just over 2 weeks now. In the 20G (75L) I have a pair of Cacateudies Triple Red. I got this pair from Auburn Aquarium. I've also bought other fish (not apisto) from from St George (I was there last night getting my C02 bottle filled). My complaint with St George though is that they are not open at all on Sundays & they close 6pm on Thursday nights too, which is a bummer. I have some endlers that came from SLS, as well I got my ADA soil for the 90L from there. BTW, while pricey, I think the ADA soil makes keeping Apistos easier - keeps the water at the right pH & kH, without having to bother with buffers. Nice to plant in too. I was going to get dehane pair from SLS too, but the Bitaeniata took it's place & I now have no room for the dehane. I'm from Menai, in the Sutherland Shire (near Cronulla, Miranda etc) so St George is not that far from me.

Your lighting set-up is another way I could go, but the compact fluro's mean that I'll get almost the same wattage as 4 x 30w, but without the bulk of 2 light fittings on the tank. I haven't ordered it yet, but I'm close. It will be a PC, with twin 55watt tubes - with twin power cords - so I can have 2 lighting sequences too. Currently I only have the lighting that comes with those Aqua-one aquarium kits - it's pretty low level.

Do you have pics of your tank/s you can share. I don't know what a sturisoma panamense is, but I will look them up now.

Thanks for the help with the film canisters. I was all set to go with them, with the little holes drilled in the ends & everything, when I bought the Bita from B & C. It was the guy there (Barry) who scared me off using them.

Thanks again.

Cheers
TW

Hi Robyn,
Yes that will work. I was not trying to be critical of the
earlier post. It's just that so many of these plants are
killed off by well meaning folks. If you bury the bananas
too deeply they will turn to mush and the plant will die.
Many figure they are the roots when they actually arn't.
Once they are situated and left alone, long white roots
will grow from the base of the green banana into the
gravel.

I had best luck in growing them when I just put the tips
in the gravel. Of course the tanks currents raised heck
with the idea, so I figured a way to hold them down or
simply planted them in a "dead" corner.

Here is acouple of sites that will help:

http://www.aquahobby.com/garden/e_banana.php

and

http://www.aqualandpetsplus.com/Plant,%20Banana.htm

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

the thing to remember with banana lillies is that they are quick and opportunistic growers which will cut out light to your other plants - i absolutely love them, and used to have quite a beautiful set up of driftwood, anubius, and two banana lillies which completely covered the surface with leaves about 12 cm across. the fish in that tank (it had 30 rummies and 3 sturisoma panamense in it) LOVED it and never looked better. so in terms of aquascaping, the plant doesn't take up much space at all except on the surface, and the leaves settle where the current moves them to, not directly above where you plant the roots. so you can't really judge where the plant will end up providing cover. that's the only issue as far as lighting the rest of the tank. oh, they also have enormous root systems once established.

it might sound like quite a few negatives, but sitting on the floor and looking up at the surface of a tank covered in lily pads is pretty damn cool...

regards, justin

Thanks Frank & Justin,

Somehow, I think these banana plants may not be for me, as my lighting is bad enough without all the the shading issues, but thank you both for the input.

Justin, just want to make sure you saw me reply to you on the previous page.

Cheers
TW

hi robyn, sure did see your reply - thanks for that. it is annoying that st george isn't open sundays - i don't have a car (for environmental reasons) so i found that out the hard way by catching a train out there one day from the inner west - not really so far, but an annoying waste of time when i could have been watching my fish!!

my lighting is a twin-bar, so 4 x 30 watt. no bulky lighting at all - just wide enough for my cat to sleep on most of the day. (don't worry - he is too well-fed to even look at the fish, let alone try to catch them).

what other fish do you keep? i'm in a bit of a dilemma at the mo - i bought two trios of flame gouramis as feature fish and they are nest-building and breeding, but they also pick at the new plant growth, which then grows up with tattered edges or holes in the middle - not happy jan. so they might go to another home and i'll find myself a new feature fish.

stock list:
40 harlequins
3 siamese fighter females,
5 kuhlis
3 yoyos
and the troublesome flames... decisions, decisions....

nice chatting, maybe see u at st george one day.

regards, justin

my lighting is a twin-bar, so 4 x 30 watt

As my tank is much shorter than 6ft (only 32inches wide) I don't think a fluro combination like that is available for me. For my tank, to have fluros with that wattage, I'd need 2 twin units, with each globe 30watts.

In this tank my stock is:-

8 harly rasboras
6 sterbai cory
4 rainbows
5 gold twin bar platys
2 guppys (who will probably go soon, 2 be replaced by 2 endlers
3 otos

In the 23.g I have:-

the 2 apistos
2 pencil fish
2 otos

In the 20g I have:-
2 apistos
2 endlers (to move to the 43.5G)
2 glow light rasboras
2 pencils (they may go & I may build up the rasboras)
2 otos

You must have been annoyed to turn up at St George that Sunday. Bummer.

Cheers
TW

Justin,

Hey - you are right on my side of the Harlequin Lover spectrum (although I have Espei), but I guess you knew that.

Robyn, sorry that I did not participate in the Banana Plantation discussion, but I know too little about it.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That's fine Ingo - you are my main conributor to all other queries & I know you have many worries with work & your new apisots. I have put the banana plants in, but if they ever reach their potential of huge leaves, they will have to come out. While they are little, I give them a try & see. The funny shaped one has already sorted itself out a little - probably by trying to seek the light.

Cheers
TW