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I did not interpret your post as "Cocky."
Your "small" tank just happens to be twice as big as my
big tank, and I thought I'd tease you a bit.

Thanks Frank , I said I didn't think it was the right word , glad to hear you were just teasing!!!!!

Jeff, Thanks for the compliment , means a lot coming from a " Guru " like yourself .

I might have missed this, but why no pressurized co2?

We had this discussion somewhere in this thread a couple of months ago , I think .
Not sure if I ever gave reasons .

Firstly , This was always meant to be a journey for me to explore and learn . One can
just take all advice and go with it or you can try things . I've read every log on this site
and many others including Tom Barrs and whilst its very obvious that using C02 is
successful , I found that nowhere could I find a lot about how to grow plants well
without it . This intrigued me and I wondered why . Was it just impossible or too hard ?.
I decided to find out by doing it myself and learning as I went . Probably a bit of bloody
mindedness on my part as well.

Secondly , as you yourself noted in an earlier post here , I'm an aggressive Fish stockist
as well as highly interested in plants . I'm reluctant to subject my charges to
conditions that are less than ideal . This may bring howls of protest from Plant Guru's
but this is my own feeling , I've no experience to back it up .

Lastly , I've an aversion to pressuried gas in any setting . I've seen first hand what
damage exploding gas bottles can do first hand and I reluctant to have them in the house .

So thats not to say I won't ever do it , I may . But I will have to be very convinced that
there is no other way to do the things I want to do before I relent.

Jeff , these are my opinions only , I don't mean to offend anyone or to cast aspertions
at other peoples way of doing things. This is the way I want to proceed for the moment .

Garry

Week 15 Update

This week again started with a promise to do very little . Well didn't work again .
I always was lousy and New Years Resolutions.

I decided to address the other plant in the tank that was shoved in as an afterthought
to up the Fast Grower count: the Wisteria . As well I wanted to address the Amazons
which had been producing a prodigious amount of babies on spikes .
I went to the LFS (again) to look for some plants . I was mainly disappointed again
at the poor selection . However I bought a couple of small Crypts , some very small
Annubia Nana and a large Annubia Nana as well as what I think is a Sagittaria.

So in I went and first pulled up all of the Wisteria at the front right . I then cut all of
the baby spikes and removed all of the babies, a staggering 32 plants from 6 parents . .
I set about planting the babies in order of size at the front left and the new plants in
and around the rock group . I also trimmed of most of the old Amazon leaves leaving only
the quite prolific new growth . I then planted the Wisteria at the rear of the Amazons
to hopefully go wild and provide a backdrop for the Amazons .

So on to the Photos ,
Full Tank as of last week




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Full Tank this week

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The Left Side

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A shot from the left end of the Tank showing the depth of the rear plants . Also some good reflections of the fish on the front panel .

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The right side , will show some closer shots of the replanted area in the next shots .

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Replanted area wide shot

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Replanted Area High Shot

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The Amazon Babies

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The Rock Group with the new plants

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A few other detail plant shots , The Ovalis recovering and showing some nice Red .

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The Ludwigia doing the same , just !?

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Small Crypts continuing to power on . Can now be seen over the rocks on the river border.

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The Stellata now sending out 2 more stems at the base of the plant.

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Annubia B. all flowering .

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New growth on the Annubia Nana on the Driftwood .

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The Java Fern Area

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Last Plant shot for this week is of the Unknown Sword? in the river . Just keeps powering on . This is the favorite spot for Dwarf Loach conferences .

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A few fishey photos now , one of the Corys .

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A lemon Tetra starting to colour up .

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A close up of A Dwarf Loach

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Angels ometimes we forget just what magnificent Animals these guys are

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Last shot for this week is another Angel shot . This one is very interesting . We've just noticed that this angel has a glowing blue spot under her chin . We've also noticed that when this spot is glowing , her feelers also take on a definate blue tinge as well. I've never seen this before .

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Thats it for this week , next week will be a quiet week with a bit of trimming of the
Hygros and some of the Algae affected Annubia leaves .
I have finally given up on getting some Red plants from the LFS's around here . I
ordered some plants online for the first time . Will probably take a week or so to
arrive . Will see how it goes getting plants delivered outside a capital city .


Garry

Garry,

Sorry it has been such a long time since I posted last in your thread, all the time I had available I spent on just reading the gazillion posts .

I recently would have added a comment saying something like "reduction of the fast growers on the right to create a more permanent scape" but I see now that this has already happened.

One thing that always comes to mind when looking at your tank, and don't take this the wrong way, is that it seems really small for its size. The large fish and the environment being all filled up with plants make it look more like a 72 than a 240G. Not that I can think of one thing in particular that can alter this, but if it were possible to add something that allows a size evaluation of the overall tank then this might help.

Gotta go,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sorry it has been such a long time since I posted last in your thread, all the time I had available I spent on just reading the gazillion posts .

Don't worry Ingo ,I know you are busy with life ATM . Thanks for the thoughts they are
always welcome .

The large fish and the environment being all filled up with plants make it look more like a 72 than a 240G.

Yes I've thought this my self at times , I think its because the tank gets its volume from
Height and Width rather than lenght . Have to work out some way to get the size accross
as the full tank shots reduce it to looking like any 6ft er .
If only I had room for the 8-10fter I really wanted .

Oh well will keep trying to think of something as well as researching more on Photography .

Thanks for dropping by

Garry

Jeff, Thanks for the compliment , means a lot coming from a " Guru " like yourself

Well here I'm a "Fish Guru" which isn't really true. Planted Tank Guru, yeah maybe a junior one.

It's funny that Ingo said your tank looks like a 72g, because he used to say my 72g looked like a 20g sometimes.

I completely understand your views about the co2 thing and you should do it your way. Nothing wrong with having a none co2 tank. I'm just sharing some of my experience with you. If you do go to high light the carbon will be the limiting factor in terms of the plants using all that light and they won't grow correctly. This will cause algae to move in. All the Excel in the world won't make a difference. And of course too much wouldn't be good for the fish.

My Scapes

Garry,

Fantastic shots of the fish as always (I know I keep repeatingmyself, but what can I do seeing your pictures )

I agree with Ingo (Little_Fish) re size and impression of the tank. It does look much smaller but you are certainly right as the width of the tank does not show well i pictures. Didn't ypu mention soething about hiding/changing the technical hardware or did I get that all wrong?

Red plants would be great in your tank! I hope your mail orders will arrive in good shape, I finally gave up hope to see some of the not so common plants at the 3 LFS I visit and will place an Internet order as well.

Claudia

Jeff . I appreciate your advice , and I do take a lot of notice of it , believe me , you
in particular have given me some of the best and most important tips in my
learning experience .
I always listen , there are some things I want to experience for myself .

As always thanks for the candid advice !

Claudia , I did replace a lot of the intank equipment and the rest has had plants put
in front , it will be hidden in time .

6ft wide is 6ft wide I think , its the depth thats hard to get accross in the full tank shots.
As far as the red plants go , we will see . I'm trying very hard to get some success in
that area , I'm experimenting with higher light in the 60g tank , only early days ,
time will tell . Its probably the one thing that might convince me to do C02.

Lets hope the plants arrive in good shape , They only have to come from Brisbane ,
150ks away so should be ok .

Thanks for the compliments

Lastly a bit of bad news , we lost one of our Angels today. No obvious reason , no
disease that I can determine . Simply got worse from last night untill this evening .
Sad but thats life , probably suffered from the strife of the Breeding wars that break
out amongst the Angel group once a month or so . Will never know I guess.

Oh well life goes on .


Garry

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Awwww..........sorry for your loss Country! Don't tell me it was the one with the blue light!?
That "lighted fish" has to be the strangest thing I have ever heard of or seen in relation to FW aquarium fish! I can't believe no one else has commented on it! It's like something out of science fiction!

What a pretty body,

I am sorry for your loss. You are probably right with the assumption that the fish succumbed to the stress of breeding in a community tank. I experienced similar myself, eg the big angel had a girl friend (and a very pretty one). I found her hainging snout first in the tenellus one evening with absolutely no signs of reduced health prior to her demise. How many angels do you have left?

Oh, Garry, that's too bad. Sorry for your loss.

Cheers
TW

I'm sorry for your loss. I have yet to experience the loss of a fish as I have only been keeping them for about 3-4 months, but I know it is tough to lose any pet.

On a brighter note, you have been an inspiration to me. The beauty of your tank has convinced me to attempt to plant my new 55 gallon. It will never rival the astonishing tank that you have but I hope it will brighten up the tank.

I noticed that you have some sharks in this tank and was wondering if you have any problems between the rainbow and red-tailed sharks. I am assuming you don't but was curious because those are two of my favorite fish.

Anyways, I hope that your success continues and you keep posting these beautiful photos for our viewing pleasure.

Don't tell me it was the one with the blue light!?

Patty , Unfortunatley you hit the nail on the head . That indeed was the one .

How many angels do you have left?

Claudia , 5 originals all about the same size . I'm currently growing a couple of
Black ones in the 60g . Hopefully to join the group in time .

I noticed that you have some sharks in this tank and was wondering if you have any problems between the rainbow and red-tailed sharks. I am assuming you don't but was curious because those are two of my favorite fish.

Truestar , I love them as well . But it is a bit of a risk . I got them very young and grew
them up togeather . The Redtail in my group is the bully and does do a bit of chasing ,
they tend to be the most bad tempered IME. But of course they are the most beautifull
of all the sharks . In a 55 I would probably go with an Albino and A normal Redfin if I
were you . Be prepared though because there can be great variation in temper between
individuals .

On a brighter note, you have been an inspiration to me.

Why thank you , you've made my day I fell very humble .


Thank you Patty , Claudia , Robyn and Truestar for you sympathy , much appreciated


Garry

Week 16 Update .
Well I finally did it I did nothing this week except mainaince . The new
plants haven't arrived as yet. Next couple of days I hope

So very boring as far as an update ,I will throw in a few more fish photos this week .
One point that I would make is that there is a definate improvement in the Algae
situation , especially the Black stuff . Claudia's system seems to be working well .
Thanks for the tip Claudia.
Ok on to the photo's , the tank last week .

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The Full Tank this week

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The Right side

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The Left side

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Just a couple of plant shots , first one the Unknown plants in the river is flowering . Heres a shot of the 2 plants . Notice the stalk coming towards the front.

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A close up of the flower stalk

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A shot of the Ovalis which is starting to power on , but is still not colouring up as I would wish .

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And the other problem plant , the Ludwiga , still looking a long way from full recovery

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Not much else on the plants this week . On to the Fishies . A shot of the Albino Redfin Shark for Truestar . Beautifull fish

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A couple of shots of the Angels .

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Another shot this time the dominant Male Angel in the foreground. He's mean , he bites me if I put my hand into his territory

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A few Shots now of the Lemon Tetras now , they are showing some really nice colours

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Another

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And Another slightly out of focus but have a look at the colours .

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Last Tetra shot of one eyeballing me .

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A few now of the older residents , a Golden Barb

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A Gold Tiger Barb

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A close up of a couple of Dwarf Loaches , These guys have done a good job keeping the snail population under control. I actually saw one of them eating a snail the other day , very efficent .

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One of the Sterbai Corys

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Well thats it for this week , hopefully the new plants will arrive SOON , and I'll have lots of decisions to make about the scape . We will see

And remember he's always watching ( Blackie that is )

Garry

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Thanks once again Garry, for sharing your beautiful pictures.

Cheers
TW

I couldn't find dwarf loaches on our site, so I looked them up. They are critically endangered in Thailand where they come from. No new hauls have been made recently. It didn't make any mention of them eating snails, but apparently they do.

I really like your Golden Barbs. I didn't realize they got that colorful.

I don't plan on doing the Sharks in the 55, I'm going with a pair of Blue Rams instead. The tank shots look amazing. I have to say the picture of the Albino is my favorite though(so what if I'm biased). The plants are great too.

Wow, simply amazing photos. Your pics are so clear and crisp - you have real talent. Beautiful.


:jay

Garry,

Glad to read that you didn't have too much to do with this tank for the last week, but I am certain it will bite you in the b*tt the next time you need to trim .

What I see is some very very healthy growth in your tank, always a good sign.

Hey, about your mystery plants in the river, didn't people already point out that they are swords? One looks somewhat like a Red Rubin.

Have fun,

Ingo

PS: sorry about the Angel loss, but we know that stuff like this happens.

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks folks for all of your interest .

Ingo , I think thats the first time anyone has given me a thought about what they might be .
Thanks , I'll do some research .

Week 17 Update .

The new plants arrived . So, I hear you say what did you get ??? Heres the list
Rotala Wallichii, Aponogeton Crispus Green & Red , Bacopa sp. ,Ludwigia Repens -
Narrow Leaf,Myriophyllum scabratum (Giant Milfoil),Rotala Macrandra - Narrow Leaf
(Magenta), Crypt. Balansae.
They were in pretty good nick , only a couple of the Magenta's were a bit mushy.
Most seem to have come thru alright so far.
I ordered some Didiplus Diandra ( Blood Stargrass) , but as usual with this plant it was
out of stock .
The idea was to order enough of these more difficult to grow plants for both tanks and
compare the results of the different conditions .So in the interest of completeness ,
I'll give you all a brief comparision of the 2 tanks regimes
240g: ( this tank )Light: 2.4 wpg , Ferts: Seachem ferts inc Excel based on Manufacturers
reccomendations .
60g: Light: 3.7wpg , Ferts: double Excel , Double Macros , same micro's .
The plants have been in for a few days and I'll show a pick of the 60 g as well so we can
compare the differences ( there are already some I think ) .

The next task was to decide where to put all of these new goodies . I confess here that
I had planned to do a major overhall , but I simply chickened out .
Not enough courage for that amount of risk ATM.
Oh well I may do something like that later

So I simply shoved them all in where they would fit .

A couple of things happened while I was doing this . Firstly I got the St;s with the
Hairgrass die off on the left of the river , so it had to go , just stuck a couple of Crypts
and an Annubia there for the moment . I will have to decide what i want to do with that
area .
The Tennulus had just run riot so it was time for a trim , and once I started ,I just kept
going . Amazing there were some rocks under there .

Ok enough words onto the photos . The tank last week .

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The Full tank this week . I will show detail shots for all the new additions .

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The Right Side .

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The Left Side

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A straight on River Shot

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An Angled shot of the Tank

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On to the detail shots of the new plants , First a shot of the Bacopa , Ludwigia , Crypt Balansae.

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Rotala Wallichii

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Giant Milfoil and another R. Wallichii

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Magenta ,Rotala Macrandra on the right near the rock group

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So that covers the right side plantings , her is a couple of shots of the Rock Group general area. Wide shot first.

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Tall Shot

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As you can see I have not copmpletely given up of the Hairgrass , But if I do I may plant some more of these small crypts in this area as well as the main ex- hairgrass area .

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Ok on to other parts of the tank . The magenta and Ludwigia around the driftwood

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The Aponogeton's are all over on the left with the Annubia B. and the Giant Hygro's . I'll probably remove the Hygro if these prove succesfull . Sorry for the poor shot not easy to get this area .

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Heres another shot a lttle closer , notice the Barteri flowers BTW

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Thats it for the new plants . Doesn't seem that exciting looking at the photos .Its a big space and they will need to grow a lot to have an impact .
However when you look at them in the 60g ,the difference is startling . Heres a before shot which I posted alittle while ago .

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And now the 60 with its compliment of the new plants . Notice even after a few days that the R. Macrandra and R. Wallichii seem to be doing much better in here . Will keep you posted .

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A couple more shots of this tank , firstly a close up of the ex Hairgrass area.

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The Tennulus trimmed

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The Ovalis , really powering on .

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The Stelatta has divided into 3 heads as well as throwing out some extra stems from the base .

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Last Plant shot for this week is the "Rubin Sword ?" flower.

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Just a couple of Fishy shots to finish this week. Firstly breeding for the Angels is just an impossibility these days . The Lemon Tetra school just goes crazy for Angel eggs . The Male doesn't even get a chance to fertilise . Oh well bring on the breeding room

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A couple of the Sterbai Cory's, they are like Puppys. Seems they wag their tails at you .

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Its really hard to get a good shot of the Cory school , but here is about the best shot I've been able to get so far . The Golden Barbs love schooling with these guys , must be about the energy level's I think

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Last shot for this week is the best close up yet of one of the Lemons ( the wife took it .

Next week should again not see many changes other than a little trimming of the fast growers , but you never know .


Garry

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Very nice Garry,

I think I am kind of happy that you just "dumped" the new plant arrivals wherever you found some space (although I can see that you for sure used better judgment than just random distribution). In this stage, an awesome scape is secondary and looking at which plants of the new batch work for you and which ones don't, and then deciding on a more permanent spot or even a dump (as in "I don't like this plant at all" or "this one does not do too well in my setup" ) is the right thing to do.

One thing though: My personal experience with R. Macandra, and words from other hobbyists confirm this, is rather shaky. It doesn't like shading at all and I think they way you have bunched them will be too tight for them. On top of it all, it loves a certain fert condition, high in this and low in that (whatever this and that may be) that is not in sink with most other plants in a tank. It is such a nice looking plant that people try to adjust their ferting routine to please this plant, with negative effects on all others.

With this plant I learned a lesson from my fellow hobbyists: "Do not adjust your conditions for a single plant species while risking all others".

Hey, for all I can see from your tank, it may just work well, one never knows. But if not then keep that in mind.

With regards to the pictures, very nice as usual

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes LF, you can't be all things to all fish and plants in one tank. Very true

Garry the tank looks good, I really like the pic of the two corys. Nice shot.

Rotala Wallichii
This will be a real challenge, sorry but I doubt it.

Didiplus Diandra ( Blood Stargrass)
I wouldn't bother.

See even if these plants survive they won't grow the way you invision them to. Sometimes people forget, plants not only grow faster with co2, they grow much fuller and lusher.

My Scapes

They were in pretty good nick , only a couple of the Magenta's were a bit mushy

This is my experience with this plant! When I got home after my trip to the LFS 90% had already turned to mush. Your online dealer did a pretty good job getting them to you in such great shape.

I absolutely love the look of your tank. Would you mind coming by for the weekend to trim my underwater jungle?

I have didiplis diandra in my tank it is doing very well, however, my R. walichii looks constantly like it is on someones menu. Discus??? I am curious how yours turn out.

Oh, BTW, what is your water temperature? I am inquiring regarding the sterbai, they are my favorite cories

Claudia

Garry

Im sorry i havent been able to comment latley, my comments are few and far between because of my jobs. I love the pics of the tank and fish, you got some georgous plants there mate.

I would love for you to give me some tips on photograpy and how you do it. I cant get my pics to stop being blurry. I have a hard time. Anyways mate again your tank is georgous.

Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
http://thetanklog.blogspot.com/ - [ Thanks to ScottF ]
http://www.natureaquariumclubofutah.com/main.html

i love this tank mate- you have made it look so alive! great shots of the corys they look full of character!

Ingo and Jeff , Thanks for that advice . I've been avoiding those sort of plants up to
now . But what the heck I thought I'd have a go . We will see what happens .

Claudia , thanks for that , I've noticed a bit of nibbling on my R. walichii in this tank as well

Oh, BTW, what is your water temperature? I am inquiring regarding the sterbai, they are my favorite cories

Temp in this tank Ranges from 26c to 28c in summer and a constant 24c in winter .

Shane , Well there are whole books written on how to with photography . I'm a bit lucky
that my wife is a photograpy nut and has been all our married life (30 years ). So we
have a great camera ( Cannon 350D SLR)but more importantly the wife has invested
in a couple of very expensive lens which make all the difference .
I also think even with the best equipment it comes down to how many shots you take .
I would take 500 at a sitting each week and from that I might get 30 really good ones .
One of the tricks I use when trying to catch the fish is to use manual focus , as the
automatic focus is just too slow for most fish . I only use auto on the tank shots and
even then it can be a problem if theres lots of movement .
Anyway I could go on , I would buy a photography how to book and do some reading
and experimenting .
BTW your last shots of your Rams were excellent so you can do it
Thanks for the compliment.

Fandan , Thanks Mate . The Corys are very much great characters , I think I said
some where else that they seem to wag their tails at you .

Thanks everone for your input .

Garry

But what the heck I thought I'd have a go. We will see what happens

That's the spirit, Garry

In the worst case you can at least report to others that you did not have a good experience with this or that plant. In the best case you have a beautiful tank

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo , appreciate the support .

Week 18 Update.

I managed another week with little interference in the tank . Very proud of myself .

The only thing I did have to do is trim the Water Sprite which was shading the very
little hairgrass I have left, which may not last much longer anyway
I also had to trim the Hygro.p as it was also shading some of the Magenta and Ludwigia .

Thats it , well on to the photos . The wife bought some new lenses for the camera
this week , so I've had to learn how to use them . So far not very well I'm afraid ,
I will need more practise . Ah well all part of the learning curve .
So all that means is the photos this week are not as good as I would like .
The Full Tank from last week .

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Full Tank this week

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The Right Side, BTW the Wisteria at the back right has not grown that much . The Shark does not like it in that spot and keeps uprooting it, so its floating in this shot. I will win this battle I hope

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The Left side

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A closer shot of the rock group on the right where most of the new plants are for the moment .

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Some detail Plant shots now , firstly a couple of my favourite success's , The Ovalis :

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The Stellata , now with 7 shoots Also show the Wendti Brown doing very well

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A close up of the Plantlet growing on a stalk from the Sword in the River .

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Annubia 's on the Driftwood with new growth as well as roots winding around the wood .

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Now onto the new plants , First the Aponogeton Crispus, which seem to be doing quite well .

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Bacopa

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Now as promised a couple of comparisons of the R. Wallichii and Magenta between this tank
and the 60g . Remember the 60 g has higher light and higher dosing of Macro's .
Couple of comments , The increased light & Macros in the 60g have been going for a month
now , in conjunction with Claudia's split lighting schedule . The result has been a complete
elimination of Black Algae as well as virtually no Green spot Algae .So Thanks again Claudia.
However in this Tank whilst the black algae has declined a bit ( no longer present on the
Tennulus for instance ) it's not completeley gone and the Green spot is still very evident as
you will see from one of the fish shots later .

So it appears that lighting control alone will not fix my algae problems in this tank .
I will probably let the experiment run for another couple of weeks , but I think that I will
move this tank over to the same high light and macros as the 60 g at that time .

The reason for not going yet is these new Red plants which I've been told a number of times
can not be grown without C02 . I want to settle that in my mind and if they do poorly in this
tank see if I can bring them back .

Bit long winded , but this is something that really interests me and I hope all of you as well .

So now for some photos , First the R. Wallichii in this tank .



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60g R. Wallichii , I think you can see the difference, the first shot is not the best but you get the idea .

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The Magenta in this tank

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60g Magenta , the difference here is startling .

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So you can see ,I think, what I mean . Here is a close up of the top of one of the Magenta stalks in this tank . There is still growth in this tank and it is red . But nothing like in the other tank .

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A few fishy photo's to finish .These were taken with the Wifes new Macro lens A couple of good ones but thats out of the 500 or 600 I've taken so far .

First a Cory complete with Green spot Algae

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The Red Tail Shark

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A Dwarf Loach on the rock in the river, also showing some Black algae on the old leaves on the Sword in the river . There's none on the new leaves of this plant .

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A great shot of one of the Rainbows , these guys are able to turn their colours on and off at will .

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A Female Tiger Barb giving me the Eye . Think she fancys me ?

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Thats it for this week , next week should again be see a couple of new plants.
I want a few crypts etc to fill up the old Hairgrass area . I have also ordered a
Bolbitis Fern cause I fell in love with "Bob" in Ingos 40g .
Not sure where its going to go yet ?

This last shot is my wife showing me how to use a macro lens.
I think its a fantastic study of a Kissers mouth .

Enjoy

Garry

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EWWWWWWW! A kissers mouth comes apart like that!?
Guess I don't know much about fish.
Great shot!

More plants?! Guess we have different planting styles.
They all look great though!

nice tank and a nice shot of the dwarf chained loach.

Patty , here's another with his mouth open . and yes I like alot of plants , But a warning
I used to be like you a long time ago so watch out !!!!??

clownloachfan , Thanks for that , love those guys they are so active .

Garry

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Patty - Don't worry, Garry will come around again and use quite a few less plant species in the long run - Wanna bet Garry?


Garry, what can I say?

- As usual, great shots, your wife for sure knows what she is doing as well.
- Plant growth is excellent, I like the fair comparison between your two tanks and the "red" plants. I know a guy with over 6wpg on a 125G and he had the reddest plants I have ever seen.


Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

- Plant growth is excellent, I like the fair comparison between your two tanks and the "red" plants. I know a guy with over 6wpg on a 125G and he had the reddest plants I have ever seen.

I think the red is more due to nutrient levels than lighting. I think the higher light leads to a faster nutrient uptake by the plants resulting in more red. At least that is what Tom Barrs talks about.

Your red plants do look very nice by the way. Someday I might try my hand at a few of them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Frank the tank looks really good. I like the left sides fullness and the swords on the river's edge. I think it would look even better if you tighten up the tall plants on the right.

Fish pics are amazing, that last one of the kisser reminds me of an old girlfriend

Wings, I agree that the nutrients have to be there, but the light I believe is needed to get the color. I mean most plants color up more as they near the light and the nutrients are available to the entire plant. Just my two cents.

My Scapes

Garry, I've got a similar thing happening with my rotala wallichi. It's got a fair amount of colour in my 80G, but not in my 33G. I've got a similar amount of WPG in both tanks, so I'd have to agree with wings and tetra in thinking that it's a nutrient issue. At least in my situation that's almost certainly the case.

Jay.

Ha Jay,

I think you got Wings right but Tetratech wrong, or I am way off. Wings blames the nutrients, tetratech says its the light as nutrients are in the lower parts of the plants as well but they are further away from a light source. Sure thing though, these plants like any plants don't grow without nutrients.

As to your experience, Jay: Have you heard about the different wattage needed for different tank sizes to achieve the same results? The smaller the tank the more wattage (wpg) is needed. So, if you had the same wpg over 80 than you had over 33 then you essentially had much more "light" on the bigger tank, and that is why your red plants did better there. This for sure would be influenced by many other things that may be different between your two tanks, but basically that's it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Folks , thanks for the compliments and the thoughts on ferts and light .

The 60g has got a lot more light (+1.3wpg) but also double the Macros so I'm not sure
which is responsible . Maybe I should have tried the increase's separately. But from
all I've read on all the other logs and plants sites one doesn't work without the other .
As Ingo says its about getting the right balance of Lights and Carbon for the particular
size tank to allow the plants to maximise the take up of the other available nutrients .
Then making sure that there are no deficencies in nutrients to limit growth .


I know that thats telling most of you how to suck eggs , but this is all a steep learning
curve for me and there is no better way to learn than experiencing it yourself .
Ask any teenager
Anyway I'm not going to let this run much longer as the R. Wallichi is not going to well
in this tank.
BTW I forgot to thank Wings in particular for helping with his fert regime which gave me
the ideas for the 60g .
Thanks Mate .
Ingo and Tetra thanks again for your insights and support .
Jay thanks for sharing always interesting to hear of others experiences .

Garry

PS Tetra , Hope the old girlfriend isn't a Fish person
G

BTW I forgot to thank Wings in particular for helping with his fert regime which gave me
the ideas for the 60g .
Thanks Mate .

Don't thank me. Thank Tom Barrs and or Greg Watson. I took it from them!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Heheh..oops!

Ingo, you got me there

You know, to get me out of this, I'll just say that I think you need both proper nutrients and lots of lighting. So I agree with both of them......sorta.

The need for more light in a smaller tank is a new one for me - My understanding was that for a taller tank you need more WPG as the light is diffused through the water of a tall tank spreading out the wavelength of the light, making it much less effective.

What is the thinking behind the need for more light in a small tank? Hmmm...very interesting.

At any rate, my smaller tank has a heap o' WPG's and the red plants aren't very red. The main differnece for me between the tanks is the substrate and the ferts.


:j

Wings,

FWIW, his name is Tom Barr

Garry - "Ask any teenager"

Jay - How much wattage of what kind of light is on both of your tanks?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

FWIW, his name is Tom Barr

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I think you got Wings right but Tetratech wrong

Yes LF is right. Wings you better stop misquoting me.

My Scapes

Wings you better stop misquoting me.

I misquoted you? where?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Couple of things I forgot to comment on .

Don't worry, Garry will come around again and use quite a few less plant species in the long run - Wanna bet Garry?

Ingo , Maybe , but I doubt it . There are too many fantastic different types of plants that I haven't even seen in the flesh . So it will be a long time before I cut my selections down .

I think it would look even better if you tighten up the tall plants on the right.

Tetra , Spot on , plan for this week as well as some other suprises . Just finished actually . Will see what you think in this weeks review .


Garry

So it will be a long time before I cut my selections down .

Garry,

That's why I said "in the long run". But I give you a year max, probably much less, until you come around

This does not mean that you will not continue to add new species to your repertoire, but the overall number of different species at one point in the tank will decline.

You sure are doing the right thing now though as you learn a lot about all the different options that are out there, you see them grow and you learn about their needs, you see what goes and what doesn't, and that all in a short time span.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/photo-album/50456-zero-water-change-20-75-update-5.html

See post #75

Just so I don't misquote someone!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ingo , Yep your probably right . I've already tried and discarded a couple of plant types
( Val's Sag's etc ) not my cup of tea..

Wings : Interesting ......

Week 19 Update

Well , Tighten up the right side said the Plant Guru ( junior). So thats exactly what I did ,
however to do that the rock group which was mostly overgrown had to go . So out it came .
I also decided to move the driftwood over the river ( and the attached Java ferns ) back a bit.
The Plants that I had out in the tennulus fields(Ludwigia Ovalis& Stellata) for recovery
purposes were moved into this area as well as the other Magentas and Ludwigias on the left side
were also consolidated to the right in the jungle .
The majority of the Hairgrass in front of the jungle is gone , so I added some Lilaeopsis as
well as a plant my LFS wanted me to try ( yes Ingo I failed to get the name again ). I cut back
the Water sprite to make it more of a foreground plant .
Whew sounds like a big change , but I'm not finished yet .
As I said last week I had ordered some other new plants and they arrived . So I then
moved to the left side of the tank and added the Rock Group back in a slightly different
configuration . Then added a couple of pieces of driftwood with an Annubia Paco and ....
wait for it... a couple of Bolbitus Ferns who I've named Bill & Ben the illegitimate sons of Bob
( just to save Tetra the trouble ).
As well I added some more small Crypts to the old hairgrass area .

Big breath ...... The Annubia I bought and attched to the rock group a couple of weeks
ago also went with the rocks .
Thats about the size of it , T'was a big day to say the least .

On to the photos , the Tank as of last week .

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Full Tank this week

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The Right side

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The Left Side

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The Centre of the Tank

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