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Hi All

Since using a python for my 36 gal goldie tank, I've decided I would like to take advantage of my 14 gal rubbermaid bin. I would like to store water in it overnight for water changes.

I'm in a tight condo so I don't have a place to keep this thing full at all times. However, I think letting the water sit out overnight is a tad better than straight out of the tap.

I have no idea what kind of small pump I can use to get the water from this bin, which will be sitting in the bathtub, to the tank in my bedroom, which is about 12 feet away.

I would be replacing about 10 gallons weekly. I can imagine using tubing like that from a python. Could I use a pump like this?

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4601&Ntt=micro%20pump&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

Last edited by Cory_Di at 29-Nov-2004 13:28

Hi,
Frankly, I'm not sure why, since you have, and are using
a python for water changes, you would want to go to a
tub of water sitting out overnight.
Aging water for 24 hours, especially if the water is
aeriated by an airstone, will cause the chlorine
to disappear.
However the chloramine, which I'm sure your water treatment
plant also uses will have to be treated with an additive
to neutralize it.

So, You have to fill the tub. Either by carrying the
14 gallons to the tub or carrying the filled tub
to its overnight resting place.
You have to purchase an air pump and airstone and
airline.
You still have to add chemicals to neutralize the
chloramine and possible chlorine.
You have to purchase a pump and tubing to drain the
tub into the tank.
You have to fill the tank with the new pump and
tubing,and then lift the tub to pour the last little
bit into the tank.

Instead of connecting the python, adjusting the temp.
and then draining the tank while vacuuming the bottom,
reverse the valve, pour in the chemical, and mix while
adding back new water, and then you are done.

Does not make sense to me.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

- It may not seem like it makes sense, Frank. I have plenty of air pumps, tubing, airstones, and lots of dechlorinator/conditioners etc. Let me explain with three reasons why my plan would give me peace of mind. I've only been using the python since spring.


Reason #1: I have a personal belief that using tap water during very cold months has the potential to lead to gas bubble disease. We see several cases yearly in the hospital forum - in Northerm Hemisphere now and in the coming months, and starting in 6 months from now in the Southern Hemisphere when winter hits there. While I know that it is rare, the potential exists and when it happens it can be deadly. I'm waiting on feedback from a poster, but it appears we have at least one case now. The only known defense is a good offense: Let the water equilibriate it's gases with the atmosphere, while in a separate container. There are many other causes of gas supersaturation, including faulty pumps. However, icy water heated abruptly in a hot water tank and poured into an aquarium is one way it can happen.

Anytime we do a waer change and see bubbles appearing on the walls, decoration and fish (hours after a change), is when the potential is there for microscopic bubbles to enter the blood stream and work there way to the surface or to vital organs. If you watch those forming bubbles on the tank walls, they don't just land there at that size. Rather, they start really tiny - microscopic actually, then begin to grow until they are quite visible. This is what occurs in the blood stream of fish, if they are in the water in which it is happening. Again, many people use pythons all throughout the winter and never see it. But its a risk, imho.

Reason #2: I've never been comfortable with even short term exposure to chlorine/chloramine. I could really smell the chlorine today when I added water to the tank and I see my two goldies spending time at the surface during and after the water change for a while.

Reason #3: My water comes out of the tap at 7.0 and rises to 8.0 after overnight aeration (verified with testing). Water municipalities often put gases in for compression or other reasons. Sometimes I like to do bigger water changes on my goldie tank and the container would hold almost 50%. The avg pH of my goldie tank is 7.7, much closer to the 8.0 with the co2 removed from the tap water.

I'm fine with filling the container in the tub the night before and dropping an airstone and putting my conditioner in there. In fact, that is one of my objectives. My dilemna is how to get the water from the filled container to my tank using some type of hose and cheapo pump. I don't need it to pump fast since I only need about 10-12 gallons weekly.


Last edited by Cory_Di at 29-Nov-2004 15:35

Hi Cory,
Still seems alot of work and not too much benifit.
Actually, if you hold the python's return above the
surface so it agitates the surface, it will pretty
much degas as it rushes into the tank.

As far as the pH difference is concerned I don't think
you are making quite that big a water change that it
would affect the fish. Fish have been known to be
in water that has a quite drastic pH swing from a
flood or heavy downpour in nature and still survive
quite well.

Honestly, I think the bubble problem is way over blown,
and your concerns about the pH shift while genuine,
are probably not something to be concerned about unless
you are doing in excess of a 70% water change.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

im with you cory and i agree with ya completly. i have and will allways leave my water in a tote atleast 24 hrs before a water change sometimes a few days. i use a 30 gallon tote for my 75g tanks water change and i use a couple 5g jugs for my 29g tank.
to answer your question that pump is way to small to push 12 ft of hose, that pump is intended for waterfalls and small trickling things. what you need is something like a serious powerhead. i use a small Rio powerhead but im only pushing water up about 2-3ft. cost me $15 or something for the pump but saves my back and time. python the wate rout then turn the pump on and let it refill as i watch tv.
the reason i use a rio pump is its cheap but very unreliable. i wouldnt suggest useing such a brand inside an actual tank or hooked up to any serious filtration. this is prolly why they are so cheap. the unreliable part is turning on, sometimes you gotta smack it to kick start it. its fine once its on but i have found it off when its suppose to be on once. i leave it on in the tote to keep it circulating so no algae or bacteria form inside or on the surface. sometimes it sits in there for a couple days, things come up.
looking at the Rios now its prolly not what ya need, they dont seem to have much power behind them. might look into another brand thats more of a sump idea, they produce more push power rather then GPH.

HTH

Sin

Sin, were you one of the few who experienced the gas bubble issue with a pleco? Or was it someone you know? I know I worked with at least 6 people on this site in two opposing seasons on different ends of the world when it happened. Just trying to remember who. In each case it was either dead of winter or early spring when thaw was taking place and oversaturing well water with gases. It's amazing how I've never seen a case come into the hospital forum during late spring/summer months on either end of the world. Pumps would fail any time of the year, not just the cold months.



Last edited by Cory_Di at 29-Nov-2004 16:15

nah ive never had a gas problem with my fish. ive allways left my wc water out over night so thats prolly why. my tanks have gotten larger so my wc storage tanks have also gotten larger.

Di,

You present three valid reasons for storing, aerating and warming water for water changes.

I have noticed the de-gassing when I use my python with the dropping groundwater temperatures. I've never had a problem with rams, corydoras, discus or ancistrus.

The pH rise doesn't bother me as I consider pH drops to be horrific on fish. pH rises are barely noticeable.

Having more or less agreed with Frank, you need a bigger pump. Put a 20 or 30G rubbermaid container next to the aquarium. Fill it with the python. Aerate and heat then use the water the following day. Enjoy!

Last edited by Bob Wesolowski at 30-Nov-2004 01:23

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

- Never thought to fill the rubbermaid bin with the python - Doh! . That means I can put it next to the fish tank.

The most notable fish I've seen in those cases of gas bubble disease were plecs. I don't know why they would be so susceptible, unless it is because they hang out in one place on the wall for long periods of time. At least 3 of the 5-6 cases involved plecs.

I'm also wanting to experiment with the procedure anyway. Once I move and get a 125, I want to have a rubbermaid garbage can in a nearby closet with water always filled and at the right temp.






Last edited by Cory_Di at 30-Nov-2004 05:26

heheh cory i thought you had it in the bathroom because you didnt want more water in the tank room or something. i never thought to ask why lol. well with the container in the same area as the tank, if you have it right next to it on some crates or soemthing so not alot of hight for a pump to push. it will save you alot of money on a pump. a powerhead would be fine for 6ft incline or less.

Cory_Di.

For many years now I prepare 50Lt in two 25Lt containers one week in advance. I add the declorinater/or what ever you call it I buy it bulk from my local Aqu.

Since I started doing this I have not had one trace of white spot. Before I started doing that I always had a bad case of white spot during every winter.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
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I use a rubbermaid trashcan (33gal) and pond pumps to do my water changes. I have a 10gal bucket that I siphon into from the tank, then pump it outside with a pump in the bucket. I put the trashcan next to the tank and fill it with a hose from the kitchen. I dechlorinate and make sure the temp is right and pump it into the tank.

I had 14 tanks at one point and could clean them all in about 4 hours like that. Get a couple pond pumps and some hose and life with that 125 will be much easier.

Good luck, Mike

Hi, this is kind of off topic but can you describe what excatly happen to this fish or plecos. I have lost a pleco today, reasons unkown, unrelated.

See the comments I made in your post on the topic:

[link=http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/The%20Hospital/50915.html?200412012124]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/The%20Hospital/50915.html?200412012124" style="COLOR: #C000C0[/link]