FishProfiles.com Message Forums

cleaning is a standard routine for any fish keepers...but the debate for UGF is...people say that every 6-8 months it is necessary to dig up the UGF and clean all the gravel under it to eliminate the toxins building up...certainly it is not an issue for 'good' aquarists if that's only happen 6-8 months...but it is for the fish...they can be so stressed out by this and in fact, once you dig out the UGF, the toxins will be released and spread through the tank (I think...) affecting the live stocks...the situation is even worse for a reef system....

so really the question draws back on..."is it true that every 6-8 months it is necessary to clean the UGF even with cleanings of the gravel as the normal cleaning routine"

Sweep it all under the rug I say.

Till the rug starts to bulge...

Hi,
I've been using UGFs since they were invented.
At first I thought that I could just fit the plates in
the bottom cover with gravel, and forget them. Later,
I discovered that I needed to clean the gravel along
with water chages. Even later, I discovered, and it
has since been documented, that one should not do a
wholesale cleaning of the tanks gravel bed all at once.

My current tank is heavily planted and so there are
restrictions to my gravel cleaning.

Over all, you should not clean more than a third of the
tank at a time and preferably around a quarter.
Divide the tank into three or four sections (mentally)
and vacuum the gravel, to the plate, in one section at
a time. It's really easy with a Python, just push the
suction end into the gravel to the plate, lift it up
and let the gravel fall back into place, move the width
of the circle, and push in again. Repeat the process
till the appointed section has been cleaned.

|-------------|
|********OOOOO|
|********OOOOO|
|********OOOOO|
--------------|

If your tank is really over stocked, then you can do it
on a biweekly basis, I do mine once a quarter. The
time inbetween gives the bacterial colonies and the filter
time to reestablish itself before the next section gets
cleaned.
If your tank is heavilly planted, clean the open areas
once a month.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

hahahah Emma, I HEAR ya!

I too love my UGF...it keeps the water clear and clean. With frequent vaccuming you stir up the "yuck" and isn't that what we are supposed to do? I have had more trouble with those filters that sit on the back of the tank ]:| more than a few times have I come home or woke up and found a tank did a "water change" on it's own and emptied all over the place...and we won't talk about trying to get the carpet back in order...now don't tell me I should have cleaned the filters more often...it was usually after I had cleaned the filters that this would happen ]:|...I haven't had mine running with UGF for 15 years, but it has been 3 for one, was going on 5 for another (tank developed other problems), and 1 year for the last tank...No problems, no back flow water changes...just a clean tank and if you use the charcoal it won't smell...so that is my 2 cents on UGFs...

"I've got a great ambition to die of exhaustion rather than boredom." Thomas Carlyle

i've got an underground filter AND an ac200 working in my 33. the tank is overstocked - i can't deny that... but i'm just waiting for some money to come in to upgrade my tanks and those fish will be moved into a bigger tank. anyway - the ac alone would never keep the tank as clean as it is - it's crystal clear... i wouldn't use an underground on its own... but i think it's got it's purposes

Weekend, regarding the stress to fish during UG cleaning.
i used a UG on my 10 gal for yearsssssssss.
every 6 months, i'd get a bucket, put 5 gals of tank water in it. scoop up the fish in a cup &amp; put in the bucket. put a few handfuls of gravel that i swished around in the tank 1st, in the bucket too. THEN CLEAN THE TANK.
then pop them back in with the old water, the few handfuls of the old gravel on top and fill up with some aged treated water.
check THIS out. in the last year i changed all my tanks to canister or OTS filters. my Mom came by to visit and saw me cleaning the tanks. she asked how often i cleaned them with the new filtration. i told her, she was like "WHAT" i don't remember you doing it that often when we had the 10 gal. (that's when i lived at home)
she's right actually. it seemed healthier and easier with the UG. ah the good old days. the canister is a pain in the butt.]:|
just my humble opinion.

The most recent issue of "Tropical Fish Hobbyist" has a good article on UGFs.

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

My 5ft tank is fully UGF as well as the Eheim 2026 Pro11.

I syphon from the top of the UGF at the front of the tank only as it is the only free space I have.

Keith

Near enough is not good enough, therefore good enough is not near enough, and only your best will do.
I VOTE DO YOU if not WHY NOT?
VOTE NOW VOTE NOW

A concern with UGF filters is that the gravel bed has a tendency to "channel" over time. Think of water finding its path of least resistance through the substrate. The result is isolated areas of anaerobic bacteria potentially creating pockets of infection. If the substrate is disturbed the isolated pockets may release pathogens into the environment. Columnaris is often attributed to this occurence. Regular deep vacuuming of the gravel bed will overcome the tendency of the substrate to channel.

Bottom line is that the negatives of a filter system can be overcome with maintenance and attention to cleanliness. Go figure!

Last edited by bob wesolowski at 23-Nov-2004 01:12

__________
"To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism; to steal from many is research."
researched from Steven Wright

Nah, you can stick your syphon hose underneath it down one of the uplift tubes. Works well.

On a side note, you shouldn't have gravel underneath it, it should be a void, otherwise the water flow wont work too well.


For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

A lot of experienced aquarists claim that UGF is an excellent piece of art work for the first 6 months then it becomes a pain after that. Due to clogging of wastes in the gravel, and under the UGF plate, with lack of oxygen causing anaerobic decay and as a result all good bacteria die off and bad ones begin to live on. Realising toxins and decreases water quality and eventually killing fish. Even with periodic stirring with water changes or gravel cleaning, the problem still occur but maybe just get delayed. Reverse flow (water pushing down the gravel then back up) UGF also suffer the same problem.

On the other hand, many successful aquarist cliam that UGF works very well for them for years. Superior biological filtration and crystal clear water is what an UGF can get you.

I personally is not sure about who's right or wrong. I do think that UGF as the sole filter in a tank will not be sufficient due to lack of mechanical and chemical filtration. But if it works with other filters then its a total different story.

One thing I am really concerned is that..people say UGF get clogged over time even with the help of stirring and vaccum cleaning for the gravel. But wouldn't be the same for any setups with gravel then? So to re-structure the case for gravel it will be..

"The gravel will get so much dirts in between its layer over time even stirring or gravel clean will not help, sooner or later anaerobic decay will occur and releasing toxins and kill the fish."

Any ideas or comments?

Personally, I still use them in my fry tanks. As I don't want any fry getting sucked up the filter intake.

But, more to the reason for them, is their primary reason is biological filtration, not mechanical. The flow of water through the substrate, increases the bacterial growth within the substrate. With the invention of the biowheel, they have become more outdated in their use.

As for the collection of detritus, you can use a power head on them, thus increasing the flow, or even use a power head to do a reverse flow UGF. Also, I do recommend the use of a HOB or canister filter when using and UGF system. I actually use sponge filters as well in my fry tanks.

And, as for surface agitation, depending on level of your air flow, it will actually get more with the UGF. The bubbles are actually more cause of surface aggitation than most any HOB or canister filter.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

With an overstocked tank (I had three medium angels in a 20 tall with a few big bottom feeders, this was before I knew what I was doing) I used a UGF with powerheads and a HOB filter to acheive sparkling water, I'm not sure that I would have had good results without the UGF. If you don't have 30 minutes a week to siphon some water, then you shouldn't have fish, you should do it regardless of what type of filtration you have. It's like having a dog, and saying you don't have time to take it for a walk.

By the way, the same UGF is still going strong in my tiger barb tank. Everyone said to give it a year and wait for the crash, but here it is 15 months later.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

but sometimes that defeats the purpose Vic. If your point is good biofiltration with minimal water or surface disturbance, then a UGF is perfectly fine by itself.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

you shouldnt use a UGF ONLY on your tank, i wopuld suggest using 2 filters, the UGF, or some HOB, or cannister filter.

true, but you really do have to keep in mind what you are trying to achieve. If you want sparkly-arkly water, the cannister will probably give you better results, but they have downsides too, as do HOBs and sponges and the whole kit and kaboodle.

I suppose what i'm saying is that it does have its place, but its no longer in the mainstream.

For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett

.... but most fish stores use UGFs because the low price inherent of a simple plastic piece. That's the real truth, and because they are experimented fishkeepers, they really know that those need deep siphoning to make them work properly.

Between two tanks with similar maintenance routine, the UGF would give a deep smell while a canister or a HOB filter do a much better job, resulting in just a faint smell, better mechanical, and chemical filtration than UGFs, while biological could be surpassed with the use of proper media in the canister.

UGFs are inherently problematic. Its an outdated and inefficient way of filtration, not to mention that are gunk and waste gatherers.

I have to aggree with Callatya here, with the exception of SW, as they do not belong in SW tanks. It is purely a preference thing.

Just a side note here, next time you go to several of your LFS, look and see what kinds of filters they are using. And yes, you will likely see that, unless they are on a central system, most lfs use UGF in all their tanks. It is an effeicent method of water movement, and surface movement, and as well IMO an efficient method of biological filtration.

_____________________________________________________________

There is always a bigger fish...

there is no right or wrong really.

it depends on many factors.

stocking would be a main one, a lot of people who run UGFs for years are light stockers. those who try it in a 4' tank with 3 oscars become very aware very quickly what a pain it can be with messy fish.

I love the UGF for some things, small tanks that you want to keep stable for example, or for wild caught fish from still waters, it would be ideal.

It does have its uses, but considering the amount of filtration devices out there and the increasing laziness of the population when it comes to maintaining things AND our tendancy to overstock, you are probably best off with one of the more powerful devices unless you are:
breeding
stocking delicate wild caught fish
trying to keep a small tank cycled and stable
keeping longfinned bettas and want a filter

I think it also has its place in marine tanks, but i am not 100% on that.

Mine worked perfectly well for a year with 4 fish, but when i started increasing stocking, it couldn't really keep up (or probably more precisely, *I* couldn't keep up.
I now run a cannister, but i still have the UGF in case the need arises



For animals, the entire universe has been neatly divided into things to (a) mate with, (b) eat, (c) run away from, and (d) rocks. - Terry Pratchett