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  L# Matt's new planted tank log
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SubscribeMatt's new planted tank log
LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah Matty,

Keep that algae in check. What is your fert schedule?
Reducing the light for sure will help. Can it be that the stunted growth is still a carryover from the store? I mean, what if the plant was grown healthy and the placed in the store under not-so-good conditions? Wouldn't it take a while to show symptons of that? If you always had good Ca in your tank, what should have changed? If your tap water hasn't become really soft all of a sudden then I would not know why you would have to add Ca.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Sep-2006 10:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I would be really surprised if it's a CA problem, especially since you said your doing alot of WC and plus the Eco has a pretty good amount of CA in it. As LF said, are you doing the regular EI dosing?

Thinking about it, those foods might also be contributing to the algae, as they are very difficult to feed so the fish can eat it all.

Now this is an issue IMO. Your running high light, it's got alot fish in it and your running a smorg.

Small moves!





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Post InfoPosted 06-Sep-2006 12:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Looks like regular green algae, otos will eat it. It wouldn't hurt to have a bunch in there anyway, along with some shrimp.

And I agree with tetra on this, do not underestimate the impact over feeding can have on the WQ. Things can go downhill in a hurry methinks...


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Post InfoPosted 06-Sep-2006 13:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Matty,

Maybe all you have to do to correct the issue is to change the flow rate of your filter to increase the contact time



Sorry everybody, but I could not resist,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Sep-2006 14:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Maybe all you have to do to correct the issue is to change the flow rate of your filter to increase the contact time


Yeah matty and tetra, what are your feelings on this? I don't think either of you have commented on this idea...





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Post InfoPosted 06-Sep-2006 14:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Ahhh Ingo & NowherMan6, you are a pair of very cheeky monkeys

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 06-Sep-2006 14:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Maybe all you have to do to correct the issue is to change the flow rate of your filter to increase the contact time



Yeah matty and tetra, what are your feelings on this? I don't think either of you have commented on this idea...








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Post InfoPosted 06-Sep-2006 14:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Well I did say at the beginning that I'm underfiltering the tank. It may be that I need to upgrade at some point. More than that I'll not comment about. I didn't mean to stir up so much commotion about the foods. I'm not feeding a lot of it, but it's very hard for them to eat every last bit is what I was trying to convey. In general, they are only getting one feeding per day, still a small amount of food. The featherfins just demand small food that is hard to make sure they eat it all. They can't take down adult brine shrimp or mysis shrimp, so they get small foods that are easily lost into the tank. I do try to only feed a small bit at a time, but I can't tell if they ate it all. I've always had that opinion about those small foods. I'm sure the 3-4x weekly 1/3 water change should take care of it for the most part.

What is your fert schedule?

I add ferts after water changes which have been about every other day. I'm adding about 3ppm of NO3, .5ppm PO4, and 2ppm K2SO4. Just a couple mL of micros. These I've been upping very slowly. I started with no nitrate since there was a bunch in the tank for a while and a smidge of PO4(less than .25ppm) and 1ppm of potassium. No micros at first either.

Can it be that the stunted growth is still a carryover from the store? I mean, what if the plant was grown healthy and the placed in the store under not-so-good conditions? Wouldn't it take a while to show symptons of that? If you always had good Ca in your tank, what should have changed?


The nesea was in excellent condition when I got it, but it does look a bit goofy, like it was emersed grown, but the bottom leaves haven't changed or dropped off. In all honesty I'm not exactly sure what this plant is supposed to look like in good conditions, so maybe it's just an oddity about the plant. It was just something I decided to try out. For a while it was turning pink before the ambulia started to shade it out, but the ambula's been trimmed back, and has good light again.



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Post InfoPosted 06-Sep-2006 15:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Honestly, it's still quite early to know how everything is going to grow in, in terms of what's previously been grown emmersed etc. It's only been what, two weeks since you planted it? The plants are still adjusting (except the ambulia - there's a reason it's on the noxious weed list ) After a month or so you'll see all the die-back take place. Still quite early yet.


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Post InfoPosted 06-Sep-2006 15:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Nessea is a difficult finicky plant, anything out of whack and it will stunt.

This stunting issue is quite common and no ones got a fix on it yet. I've had the exact same issue on exactly the same plant.

It's not a CA deficiency, especially if the Gh is 3 or above. But it may very well be something preventing the plant utilising the available CA. This is why certain species show it and other go on happy as Larry. Some species are just more sensitive to this phenomenon.

In my own experience adding more CA did squat.

There are a number of possibilities that can cause this IME. The simplest way to tackle it is to eliminate all possibilties at the same time. If you try to narrow it down to one cause and try to fix that you WILL try yourself nuts and you WILL have a crappy looking tank for months.

1.High light and nutrient levels but with poor Co2.
2.High KH. A lot of plant just don't like KH, for those plants we think of as sensitive or difficult it is almost always the KH that's causing the problem.
3.Mg levels. Generally a GH of 3 or more will supply sufficient CA and Mg. But do you know how much of your GH is CA and how much Mg. While having excess Mg is very unusual having deficient Mg even with good GH is possible. Add a few ppm of MgSo4 with each water change.
4. Pay attention - this one may shock you. High No3 will cause plants all sorts of problems. And by high I mean even 30ppm will cause problems for some plants.

In my own case I was pretty sure that the high no3 was an issue. Doing a lot of water changes and keeping a more steady hand when adding the KNO3 wiped the problem out for me.
In your own case Co2 would be a major suspicion as you are seeing green algae even with Po4 additions..

As I said earlier if you try to isolate the problem you will drive yourself around the bend - better to take a blanket approach that covers all the above.

Try this:
Make sure you are doing 50% WC's, a lot of people are doing less then they think (I was). Add about 5ppm of MgSo4 at WC. Try to keep the KH at 3-5 degrees. Don't overdo the KNO3 , especially if you have a lot of fish. Keep the Co2 high.
Do all of this regularly - stability is vital.Give it a month - most plants will stunt at the drop of the hat but they take a while to recover and get going again.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 07-Sep-2006 04:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Haha, hey guys I found Bensaf!

That sounds great, thanks for the help Bensaf. I'll start with the CO2 which I'm in the process of raising. I would think there's plenty of PO4, but I'll pick that up a smidge too. My KNO3 dosing was on the light side to begin with, and I'm sure I've gotten rid of most of what was there to begin with, so I'll keep that about the same. We all know I like to micromanage my macros, so NO3 is usually lean. My KH I think was 6.5, A little high, so maybe I'll use some RO/DI when I do water changes. Gh I know is high around here too, but I haven't tested for that in quite some time, so technically I don't know. That leaves MgSO4. I'll have to visit greg watson, cause I don't have that on hand.



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Post InfoPosted 07-Sep-2006 05:38Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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That leaves MgSO4. I'll have to visit greg watson, cause I don't have that on hand.


Epsom salts from the pharmacy will do just as well.

Your numbers for KH and Gh are almost the same as mine , maybe something about that number plants don't like.

Keep us updated on the progress. This problem has hit a lot of people and is the subject of much debate as to the causes.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 07-Sep-2006 08:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Haha, hey guys I found Bensaf!

Boy Matty, you must be special for Bensaf to grace your thread like that.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Sep-2006 14:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Boy Matty, you must be special for Bensaf to grace your thread like that.


I guess so...I think I just hit on a subject he likes. Well the order to greg is already in, I didn't waste any time. I needed a few other things as well, so no biggie. The nesea will have to wait a couple days for the Mg.

This morning I noticed that my preacox rainbows are either fighting or mating. Unfortunately, my bets are on fighting cause I think it's two males going at each other spinning aroung like crazy and flashing all over the tank. LF, yu ever see this with yours? I'm thinking I might need some more females or something.



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Post InfoPosted 07-Sep-2006 16:31Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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When I had a nice sized group of rainbows(9) I don't think I ever saw them fighting. I would say they are establishing a pecking order if anything. Thus finding out who is the prettiest of them all. Though you might have some mean little rainbows. Just my $0.02

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Post InfoPosted 07-Sep-2006 17:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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What kind of rainbows did you have wings? My featherfins arean't aggressive, and the preacox aren't aggressive towards them, just themselves. I guess you are right, they must just be establishing some order. They only seem to do it in the morning light, there's just enough to see into the tank, but not tnough to make out male/female, and I've heard that they tend to breed during that time. It would be nice if that were the case, but I've seen nothing in the way of eggs, and I think they are too young anyhow. I sure have been taking good care of them with all the water changes. I wouldn't blame them for wanting to spawn, except for I haven't really been trying to bulk them up. Just enough for them to get by for awhile.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Sep-2006 03:43Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I guess you are right, they must just be establishing some order. They only seem to do it in the morning light,
My guess is that they are two of the males. I don't think Dwarf Rainbows are the smartest fishies in the world, and I would not be too surprised if they forgot overnight who was the boss the previous day

How do they fight? Is there any biting? Mine fight all the time, but it is only a show fight where the only contact may be a slap with the caudal fin.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Sep-2006 10:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Matty,

I had the same dwarf blues that you and little fish have. I didn't have good luck with mine though. I had a lot of random deaths without any signs of illness. The same thing happened to the ones at work. Must have been a bad batch.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Sep-2006 14:02Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
DeletedPosted 08-Sep-2006 14:33
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LITTLE_FISH
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To that topic,

I had overall 9 of them, 3 females and 3 males, and after the 3 females died within maybe 2 months I got an additional 3 males. Never lost one male though and losing all of my females makes me believe that they are way more sensitive.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Sep-2006 14:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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How do they fight? Is there any biting?


They at least try to bite. I haven't seen them actually connect though. At one point they squared off like cichlids do and almost locked mouths. At the last second they swerved and started the circle dance. I was really surprised to see them do that. Most of the time it's chasing that leads to the circle dance.

About the sensitivity, the praecox definitely seem the stronger of the two types of rainbows. The weak little featherfin has disappeared now. I'm down to 8 of each, I think. All 16 look pretty good though. I'd be surprised if anything happened to any of them.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Sep-2006 14:57Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Well I got my clean up crew today. I purchased 4 oto cats and a synodontis petricola cat. The petricola is about half an inch right now, so it will be a while before he gets big, especially since I won't be feeding him a whole lot. As soon as I feel he's a bit too big for the tank(say, larger than my rainbows ~ 2" I'll take him back to the lfs. He's really just a temp bottom feeder to take care of the little bits of left over stuffs.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Sep-2006 02:08Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Oh, the greg watson stuff already came in. That guy is good. I wouldn't have been able to get out to the pharmacy and back that fast. Dang.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Sep-2006 02:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Matty,

I would guess if they square off in cichlid style it means that these two are really close in strength and so forth and as such none of them feels like taking flight first before being hunted down and confronted to pay his respect.

Yeah, Greg Watson is fast. So what did you order again?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Sep-2006 11:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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The main reason for the order was MgSO4. Bensaf figures I was lacking there. I was nearly out of KNO3, so I got some of that, and decided to try out the CSM+B as well. I really mix and match with the micros. I have kents, julian sprung's, and now the plantex stuff. I'll probably buy some of the flourish as well. I don't feel like any one is the best, and they all have differents formula's and benefits.

Well I'm off to Zoar Valley for the day to check out an old growth forest for class. Should be a good time. See ya'lls later.

No comments on the fishies?



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Post InfoPosted 10-Sep-2006 14:18Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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No comments on the fishies?
I thought I was talking about your fishes, or did you think I meant you?

Anyway, CSM+B - that is plantex, right? Plus Iron, right? I found that that stuff is really hard to dissolve and I didn't like it all that much.

So you are mixing and matching micros, hm? How come that I don't see any TMG in your listing there

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 11-Sep-2006 01:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I meant the otos and synodontis petricola. I should have specified new fish. I need to get some pics, but the perticola cat disappeared.

Anyway, CSM+B - that is plantex, right? Plus Iron, right? I found that that stuff is really hard to dissolve and I didn't like it all that much.


What did you use for water to dissolve it? Might do better in ro/di, than it would in tap.

So you are mixing and matching micros, hm? How come that I don't see any TMG in your listing there


I wish I had some non-internet access to it. I thought that stuff wasn't going to be around any more? I've heard it was pretty good, though. I'd like to try some, but I doubt it would be worth it for me to search up and down for it and then pay for the shipping and everything.



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Post InfoPosted 11-Sep-2006 02:31Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I meant the otos and synodontis petricola.

Otos are always a good fish to have. I sell tons of them at work for small tanked peoples. I guess I could start selling some Pitbull Plecos too.....

Synodontis petricola are really sweet catfish. I have yet to have one of the little slow growers but I had a feather fin for a while. I just like synodontis in general. Good buys!

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Post InfoPosted 11-Sep-2006 02:42Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Ah, the Otos - yeah, always a good call. Where the first fish in my 40 and 125
And the other cat I don't know, what is its common name? And dissapeared means he is hiding?
Might do better in ro/di, than it would in tap.
- Yeah, I will go out and buy RO water and then stirr for hours just to add micros to the tank.
wish I had some non-internet access to it. I thought that stuff wasn't going to be around any more?
Occasionally, reading through my logs helps . I stated last week that Big Al's has it for the time being, as I was informed that they got some into the online catalog from their local store. I bought a 5L bottle right away.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 11-Sep-2006 02:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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And dissapeared means he is hiding?

Well, yeah I hope he's hiding. There's a ton of ground cover in my tank, and plenty of hiding spots around the death star. Not to mention the cat is as big as my thumbnail. I don't think I'll see it very often, unfortunately. They are pretty sweet as wings said. I may just have to get another one. We have them listed in the store as syn. petricola, and I've never heard them called by a common name. Somebody else might be able to chime in here.

Yeah, I will go out and buy RO water and then stirr for hours just to add micros to the tank.

Well I didn't mean to suggest that you do it, I meant that I was going to try and see if it dissolves well that way. I hope it does at least.

Occasionally, reading through my logs helps

Easier said than done. I did read that, but I don't intend to buy it online. I only bought the plantex csm+b because greg watson had it and I was ordering from there anyways, and I thought it was silly to pay $8 in shipping for $8 worth of product, so I decided to try it out. Maybe trying to dissolve it at higher temps or in lesser concentrations would help too.

About the tank in general - Plants seem to be growing well, even if there is some algae on the old growth and hardscape. I did expect a little, so as long as this is a phase, I'll be ok. Since I've turned the lights down, I've noticed that the ground cover plants seem to be reaching a bit for the light, and the abulia is getting pretty leggy. The nesea, though crinkly, is growing pretty darn quick, and the chain swords are starting to multiply.
The remaining 16 rainbows are active, even if the praecox are a little over-active in the morning, and they are eating and look to be doing well overall. There hasn't been any noticeable marks on the male praecox from the morning romps, so I think they will settle in eventually, or just keep it up and not get hurt. Maybe as they get a bit older they will turn their attentions to the ladies? The otos are all visible, but seem a bit skittish, which is generally my experience with them before they end up kicking it a couple weeks down the road. I never have a good outlook on those guys. They are my problem fish, like other people have problems with cardinals or whatever.
I'll probably get some pics of the tank this week sometime. My(and my camera's) batteries need some charging, and the tank and plants are in need of a bit of work before I let the public see it.

I think I'm a bit long winded today must have been all the fresh air.



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Post InfoPosted 11-Sep-2006 03:32Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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So the micro that you bought is not exactly the one I used to use. Yours is the plain CSM+B while mine was something like "CSM+B plus extra Iron". Interestingly, I cannot find this one anymore on Greg's website. I wonder if I was not the only one who got issues with it.

But in all fairness, I have to say that after months of use it turned out that I most likely heavily overdosed the tank with this stuff as I initially worked of a pretty wrong assesment on how much to use (got some not so good advice).

I intitally had issues with Otos as well, from the (I think) 13 that I bought for the 125 only 6 made it, but they are still around, as much as I can tell. Only recently have I gotten lucky to having not lost even one in the 40G.

I guess your light is then to weak for some of your plants right now. Nevertheless, I assume that keeping it down will help avoiding larger issues until your plant mass is sufficient enough to handle more light. In case it helps, I started the 40G with only 8 hours of light per day and increased weekly by 30min until I had 10 hours, now I am up to 11, I think.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 11-Sep-2006 14:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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TFH (Sept) Catfish Corner. From the caption on page 61. "The cuckoo catfish Synodontis petricola"

The profiles we have on this site call the Synodontis multipunctatus also as cuckoo catfish. We don't have a profile for the petricola.
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/625.htm

multipunctatus is called the cuckoo catfish here too!
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=95

petricola here is called False cuckoo catfish
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=103

Well that was fun to look up. I guess I should get on with my homework!

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Post InfoPosted 11-Sep-2006 14:48Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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My(and my camera's) batteries need some charging, and the tank and plants are in need of a bit of work before I let the public see it.



Booo, cop out! Just kidding, I used to do the same thing all the time.

Otos are a good start, but I would seriously consider adding ammanos, and a lot of them. They're amazingly effective algae eaters. Anything remotely stringy they'll eat, things that otos won't.


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Good links there wings.

I heard the amano shrimp are also good dwarf cichlid food, please correct me if I'm wrong, so I was going to avoid those, because I'm going to eventually get a pair of something, probably some apisto.



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Well I know my kribs like CRS. The one Amano is still in the tank from when I added a batch of CRS but they didn't get all the CRS either. I wouldn't risk it.

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I heard the amano shrimp are also good dwarf cichlid food, please correct me if I'm wrong, so I was going to avoid those, because I'm going to eventually get a pair of something, probably some apisto.

Well I think it probably depends on the situation. I have 7 or 8 Amanos in my big tank with the rainbow, bolivan and blue rams and they don't even look at them.

I would as Nowher suggested put the shrimp in now, let them grow alittle and get situated and then go ahead and had your rams. A few of my amanos are quite large, probably about the size of a full grown rummynose.

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I never even saw my yo-yos go after them while they were in the 46 gallon. The gourami hunted them mercilessly though, like cats stalking prey. In a heavily planted tank where they've been assimilated they should be fine with whatever in there.


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In a heavily planted tank where they've been assimilated they should be fine with whatever in there.
But you might never see them. Now that my kribs are in a different tank I see my shrimp all the time.

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But you might never see them. Now that my kribs are in a different tank I see my shrimp all the time.

Depends on the setup. the amanos are always on top of my dW pieces by late afternoon or moving around the riccia looking for scraps.

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plus, although they're nice to look at, they're more functional than anything else. they'll do the job and stay in the shadows. No biggie


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Hmm...I may try some out since it sounds like everybody agrees that if they get in there first and get a descent size, they will probably do fine.

Are CRS the same? or will they get demolished since they are smaller generally?

Might just go with a bunch of shrimp instead of apistos. Amanos, CRS, and wood shrimp are pretty common at my lfs. We even get others in occasionally. I've heard CRS breed pretty easily. That would just be downright cool if they could avoid all the fish, or even free food is nice.



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Are CRS the same? or will they get demolished since they are smaller generally?

That pretty much sums it up. I had a few crs in my apisto agassizi and I went away for 3 days and when I came home I found pieces of red all over the tank. It was pretty gruesome.

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hmm...figures. Decisions decisions....

There was one thing I forgot to mention. I mixed up 1tbsp CSM+B in 500ml room temp RO/DI water as per greg watsons recommendations(2tbsp per L) and gave it a shake and it mixed perfectly. I also added a bit extra iron chelate and that went in smoothly as well. I only added 1/2tsp because I was unsure of the quantities that I should be adding there. I don't think I even added anything significant, so if anybody knows if I should add more please tell.



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Might just go with a bunch of shrimp instead of apistos
- What, give up on Apistos for some algae munchers? Never
gave it a shake and it mixed perfectly
- So what was I doing wrong then? I filled a liter bottle with tank water, added my Plantex Plus Iron, and shook it like crazy and it didn't dissolve completely

Matty, as to how much to use, I don't remember. I know it is buried somewhere in my thread, there is some entry where I discovered that I way overused this stuff. And I am pretty sure that if you had used the whole tsp in one session that this would have been too much as well. I think even 1/2tsp is too much.

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So what was I doing wrong then?


Well things just dissolve into pure water better because there is literally more "room" for it to dissolve into. Also, if you used more than 2tbsp, that much might just not be able to dissolve into the 1L water. There is only so much capacity for things to dissolve.

The 1/2 tsp I mixed into the 500mL with the plantex, you think this is too much? I'll be doing a couple mL of that every day or every other day along with a mL of each of the others.

About the shrimp - I'm still just throwing ideas out there, do'nt get upset.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
I like those wood shrimps. They just stand there and sift the water like a filter right? They'll almost like minature fine pad filters.

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Wood shrimps get pretty big, don't they? And, don't they need a rather high level of floating organics to survive, similar to these animals of the dark side ()?

Ah Matty, so you don't add the 1/2 tsp, aka 500mL, at once to the tank, but just some of the solution. I used to add about 1 to 1.5 tsp every other day, and that was way too much.

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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
They just stand there and sift the water like a filter right?


Yeah, but I've seen them dig around in the gravel as well, so I don't think that fine particles HAVE to be in the water column for them to survive. If they did they would probably have high mortality rates in captivity, like flame scallops of the dark side.

And yes they do get to be a few inches long, but they aren't really destructive IMO. They are still pretty dainty animals.

Ah Matty, so you don't add the 1/2 tsp, aka 500mL, at once to the tank, but just some of the solution. I used to add about 1 to 1.5 tsp every other day, and that was way too much.

Yeah I would think that would have been too much. So, I have the 500mL of water in a bottle with 1 tablespoon of csm+b and 1/2 teaspoon of the iron chelate. I was hoping if someone could tell me if that sounded like a good mix to dose a couple mL out of daily, or if I need to increase/decrease that. If not I'll find out eventually. If anything I think I'll need to increase it. I've read of people using as much as 2mL per 10g per day of a solution twice as strong as mine. I think that would be on the order of how much LF was dosing, maybe more.

Oh one more thing, I did a WC last night and dosed the Mg as per bensaf's instructions and topped the last inch or so with RO/DI water. Hopefully that will help the crinkly nesea. I had my RO/DI unit working all day(12hrs or so) yesterday to fill up my top off bucketfor sw, the fw tank and the water change bucket for the sw. Glad I'm not paying the water bill in this apartment.



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Oh one more thing, I did a WC last night and dosed the Mg as per bensaf's instructions and topped the last inch or so with RO/DI water. Hopefully that will help the crinkly nesea.

If it's MG, wouldn't the plant make use of the mg in the Eco.



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I like those wood shrimps. They just stand there and sift the water like a filter right? They'll almost like minature fine pad filters.
I think you should have pulled an Amano when you had your Green Water and used the Wood shrimp!

I have seen them at a Petco back home but nowhere else yet. I don't know if we could get them into my store or not.

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If it's MG, wouldn't the plant make use of the mg in the Eco.


Well that could be said for just about all micros. So what is causing the crinkled leaves? I have no idea. Hopefully it's just new tank syndrome and it will shape up. Either that or I'm going to find something to replace it, cause it's kinda funky lookin'.

As for the wood shrimp taking on the green water, you would need a whole lotta shrimp for that I imagine.



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As for the wood shrimp taking on the green water, you would need a whole lotta shrimp for that I imagine.
Thats why I said to used the Amano method.

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I guess I don't follow....what's the Amano method? A whole lotta shrimp?



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EditedEdited by bensaf
If it's MG, wouldn't the plant make use of the mg in the Eco.


Nessea and Ammania ( 2 plants that are almost identical in looks and the 2 plants most often suffering from this phenonomen) are plants that produce very little in the way of roots. I had Ammania for over a year that barely produced a root. I would assume from that they find it difficult to extract any nutrient from the substrate.

There's a hundred and one theories as to why these plants stunt while other plants are going gangbusters.

Mg is the one nutrient that gives most people a postitive result. Although I have to say adding it didn't do much for me.

But my own situation was different. It was a much older tank with an awful lot of old mulm built up. Really cleaning it up and keeping it that way worked wonders. Not just at stopping the stunting but the other plants picked up too pearling was much more intense.

Dirty or old tank syndrome is definately an issue in planted tanks. At least once a year you should be looking at giving the tank a real good going over. By that I mean uprooting plants, removing rocks and wood and vaccing good etc.

I know that goes against the stability mantra but it's a balance. There comes a point where the level of organics in a tank will cause more harm then a disruption in the stability. It also gives an opportunity to do that big re-scape you'd been planning (LF ) and keep things fresh looking.

In a tank like mine where 85% of the sub is covered with wood rocks and plants that don't get moved/uprooted on a regular basis (ferns, anubias, mosses) it's even more important as there is a huge build up of detritus trapped in there.

But this is a new tank.........

I did find the plant would grow nice for a while but then when it got tall and closer to the light the stunting would start. Maybe a high light / not enough Co2 thing.

Check other plants closely, they may not be so severe but maybe showing something small that could be missed at first glance.
If you can't solve the issue maybe better just to dump the Nessea , it will drive you batty. Shame though it's a really really nice plant when it's looking good.

Could be worse, could be Nessea 'Red' a plant which I've never known anyone to grow successfully. Me included.


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it will drive you batty.



what's the Amano method? A whole lotta shrimp?
Right on!











A Batty, Matty! I don't think we need that!


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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
A very batty matty. Well since the nesea was the last topic of conversation, I'll start with that. Looks like thenesea was very much in an emersed growth form. Here's what it looks like now:


The leaves are much smaller, the stem is now green, and thinner as well. Quite a change. Also, count the otos, I know LF likes this game.

Don't laugh too hard, but my cam isn't great, and I wanted to show you the colors on my featherfins. So here's a picture that shows its color very well(don't mind the blurryness). I really did take quite a few pics, none came out better than this:


A new addition to the tank, these are entirely functional in purpose, the fish have definitely become more comfortable since I put them in:

Plus it seems they enjoy snacking on the roots, you can tell

Here's a pic of the rainbows hangin' out under the water lettuce:


Stargrass makin' a comeback, about 4 tiny stems of it:


And finally a shot from the side and a shot from the front:




The algae has taken a severe setback. I think it's about done for, between the plants growing like crazy and the otos.

I still haven't seen my syno cat since I let him go. I'm starting to fear the worst, but I'm still not sure. He could be hiding anywhere, he's so tiny. I might get another this weekend.



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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
So comments are welcome, and expected. The one thing I'm not too fond of is that all the plants are the same color green. The baby's tears and the glosso are too similar in shape and color. I might try to exchange the baby's tears for the chain swords, eliminate the hygro, put the stargrass in where the ambulia is(once it grows a bit), keep the ludwiggia a bit lower(at least when it comes time to take pics), and find a way to work some blyxa and maybe some moss in there for some different shades of green. I'd also like a couple more rocks I think.

Oh yeah, and add a background

Lots to change on this tank. Lemme know what you think.



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Hey I see floating plants
Actually I give you alot of credit for putting those in. It's definitely more natural to have plants moving about the top.

As you pointed out the plants look really healthy and I like the look of the tank. It's got real potential once the glosso falls fill in.

From a scaping point I like the overall tank, but I'm not crazy about the left back and right front. The left back competes with the glosso falls for attention, mainly due to height and color. If you put a black background on the tank, swap out your heater for the black stealth and swap out the intake tube for something black as well and you won't feel the need to go high in the left back corner.
I also think the gayli is too tall for the right front. As you mentioned Blyxa would be perfect there.

I really like the size and position of the "falls" and some color in the middle of it all would be really nice.

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It's looking good Matty. Have you seen the glosso creeping up the falls yet?


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Matty,

Nice set of pictures. Your rainbow sure looks like it had nice colors even though they are blured. (it is ok! I can't take good fish pictures either)You did make up for it with your very artistic plant shots.

In stead of buying a new heater why not stick it side ways towards the bottem of the tank?

The glosso looks like its filling in nicely. I am with Tetra on the gayi. Maybe try using it closer to the baby tears? Move the red stuff closer to the falls so that its one larger eye catcher?

For the moss are you thinking DW or Rocks? I think some DW would be nice. Maybe try building it pointing away from the falls.




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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Matty,

Nice set of pictures. Your rainbow sure looks like it had nice colors even though they are blured. (it is ok! I can't take good fish pictures either)You did make up for it with your very artistic plant shots.

In stead of buying a new heater why not stick it side ways towards the bottem of the tank?

The glosso looks like its filling in nicely. I am with Tetra on the gayi. Maybe try using it closer to the baby tears? Move the red stuff closer to the falls so that its one larger eye catcher?

For the moss are you thinking DW or Rocks? I think some DW would be nice. Maybe try building it pointing away from the falls.

In terms of an overall shape I think it should be a triangle from upper right to bottem left.



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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Just for you Matt



Shakes fish at monty python.

Hey I see floating plants

AH! You got me, noe why'd I leave those up there in plain sight?

From a scaping point I like the overall tank, but I'm not crazy about the left back and right front.


Yeah, me either. I wouldn't want those ludwigia to be that tall, even if I kept the heater and stuff there, I just didn't get to trimming them down. I could move those over into the center somewhere to draw more attention. That would probably work out the best.

Your rainbow sure looks like it had nice colors even though they are blured.

Thanks, I just wish I had nowher's camera, I could get a nice shot of him flicking his fins at the other guys. Such a site to see. I definitely don't regret getting these fish.

In stead of buying a new heater why not stick it side ways towards the bottem of the tank?

Ah you guys know that I'm not going to be buying a new heater or any of that business. If anything, I'll take it out for you during picture time. I do know what you mean about feeling the need to build stuff up over there. I'll keep that in mind from now on, cause I think you're right about that. I'll try not to do that anymore.

For the moss are you thinking DW or Rocks? I think some DW would be nice. Maybe try building it pointing away from the falls.

I'm thinking a few more rocks. I don't feel the urge to put DW in there. I've never bought DW that I liked in a tank. I'll keep an eye out for some, but I'm not even sure what I would want. It would have to be small stuff, because the falls are supposed to be the big structure, any large DW would look weird. I do intend on getting a couple more of those rocks, and spreading them along the bottom.

As for shape, I'm thinking a little modded log curve. If you can remember back into trig class.



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Never had to take Trig. Help me out!

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This is actually Y=-Ln(X), flipped sideways to fit my liking:



Attached Image:

y=-ln(x)




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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
*shakes fish at fp code*

Well this is what I was trying to say before I had to give the fp code a beatdown. Red is a straight line, black is a natural log type curve, very slow in rising, not much room to plant . Blue is somewhere inbetween. That gives me a little room for some plants to grow up before we get to the glossofalls.





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I love the tank, the glosso looks great and wants it covers the deathstar the tank will look awsome.
I see you trimmed the cabomba to. Your rainbows look very colorful by the way.

-Vincent
Post InfoPosted 15-Sep-2006 23:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Matty,

OT question: what kind of camera and what WB setting? Shots looks great, especially one of your SW shots in that log.


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Post InfoPosted 15-Sep-2006 23:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Thanks Bud for the nice comments. I can't wait for that thing to get covered either. I was experimenting with cabomba as a ground cover. I thought I would like it more than I do. It's probably going to go eventually.

Nowher- Thanks for the compliments. I have a nikon coolpix 2100. It's probably over 2 yrs old now. It's great with anything that doesn't move, or moves really slowly. Fish are usually out of the question. The couple pics of my wrasse that turned out were probably one in 300(meaning I prob took 5-600 shots of that thing over the course of months). Even with non-moving shots it messes up the focus a lot, which is why if I ever get a new camera it will have a manual focus. I never take just one shot of something, because it's probably going to be blurry when I see the full size pic. I usually take 4-5 of non-moving things and one will come out ok. I can't tell using the preview screen either, it's only an inch big.

The white balance is always changing between tanks. When I have time I actually put a white plastic bag into the water, making sure it get a lot of light and use the manual option for white balance. It's really the best way to get the right colors. I just wish there were a way to save the setting. That way I wouldn't have to keep doing that. I know that newer cameras have that option. If I don't do that I use the auto white balance. For fish tanks it comes out better than any of the presets.

All in all it's a neat little point and shoot camera that actually has some manual options, but it's a little out dated now. I think 3 years ago it was a hot little peice of plastic. It's definitely ahead on the use vs. cost, but until it breaks or dies, I'm not sure I can justify a new one.

especially one of your SW shots

Just one? I guess I should ask which one?



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Post InfoPosted 16-Sep-2006 00:07Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Weeeeelp,

I got a quote from nowherman here way back from page 8.

I was also hoping you'd pain-stakingly plant each glosso plant through the mesh so that it would spread faster


This is a work in progress. I'm a bit tired, so took a break to upload pics and post 'em. I've only been at it for about 3 hrs now...I'll be going back to work in a couple minutes.

















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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 00:39Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Wow Matty,

Nice work! Thought I bet it was a pain in the BUTT! I think this will help the Glosso fill in better. Keep us posted!

Edit: Whats with the heater above the falls?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 04:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Oh, it was a pain, and there's still more work to be done tomorrow. I didn't get the whole thing done, and there's uplanted sections elsewhere in the tank. mainly the back left corner, where the ludwigia was. I pulled that out to trim and move it. While I did that I decided to move the heater into flying position by the filter output. I don't see that part of the tank as often, with eye level above the tank.

Tomorrow I'll continue planting the glosso and moving the baby's tears and chain swords and.... well everything. Plus I got another rock for some more flavor or character or whatever. So I guess expect more pics tomorrow.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 05:15Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I feel your pain,

Planting Glosso stem by stem (or rosette by rosette, whatever this would be in this case) must be a killer.

I also see in the last full tank shots that the tenellus is running wild already, keep a close eye on it as it will have posession of your tank soon and push the Pearl Grass out of existence.

Have fun,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 10:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I'm more worried of the baby's tears pushing out the chain swords. I have had to trim them back a few times from out in the middle of tenellus group.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 14:40Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Just one? I guess I should ask which one?


Whoops, lost track of this thread. It's the full tank shot, taken on an angle on the last or second to last page. Very crisp, bright and clean colors, there's no color cast to speak of. Seems your FW pics are like that as well. Very impressed with the WB, something my SLR doesn't handle well. Will consider a switch to Nikon because of this

Anyway, glad to see you taking on that glosso, it's already looking better.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 15:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Will consider a switch to Nikon because of this


Hmm...I was considering a switch to canon for their manual focus options in the point and shoot types(affordable options). What camera do you have?



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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 20:38Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
Hmm...I was considering a switch to canon for their manual focus options in the point and shoot types(affordable options). What camera do you have


I have a Minolta Maxxum 7D. Minolta went out of business a few months ago and sold their lens mount and assets to Sony so they're not making them anymore, though they are still being sold in some places. The color cast from the way it handles 6700K light is disappointing. It's fine for what I do now, but when I upgrade I don't know if I'll switch to whatever Sony has out or to Canon/ Nikon. Canon's high ISO in their SLRs is second to none and there's the promise of full-frame cameras with them, but the way your Nikon handles tank lights is stellar.

Word to the wise: manual focusing a digital P&S camera is usually a fruitless labor. In order to do so you have to make use of an Electronic View Finder (EVF) and no one really makes one capable of precise and fast manual focusing. There was only one camera ever made that could handle the task, and that's the Minolta A2, now defunct. Its EVF was a full 1,000,000 pixels - compared to most EVF's if seen now that are 200,000 if you're lucky. Even then it wasn't fast or accurate to manual focus because it's still electronics you're working with. If you want to stick with the p&s lines, stick to getting a good autofocus camera - I think Canons S2-S3 IS series is good with that. If you want real, fast, accurate autofocusing and real, accurate manual focusing get one of the budget DSLRs from either company - can probably get a set up for as little as 600 bucks.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 21:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think Canons S2-S3 IS series is good with that. If you want real, fast, accurate autofocusing and real, accurate manual focusing get one of the budget DSLRs from either company - can probably get a set up for as little as 600 bucks.

As you probably know I have the S2 IS. Good overall camera. Great optical zoom (12x) and supermacro mode both with the standard lens. I believe the newer S3 has an ISO setting up to 800, while mine only goes to 400.
Nowher, I think you were trying to tell me something about lenses and such for the camera. Were you referring to something I could get for my camera? Sorry Matty, don't want to steal the thread, but you guys are talking cameras.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 22:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Sorry Matty, don't want to steal the thread, but you guys are talking cameras.


Don't be sorry(err except to the mods maybe) I'm interested in talking cameras. Actually I'm very interested, as my camera's lense froze up on me today. I had to turn it on and off several times to get it to work again. I'm afraid that means it's going to go soon. So by all means...we can talk cameras.

So is manual focus bunk for every situation, or is it still nice for still objects, as you said it was slow? I have a very hard time getting focused on some corals in the back of my tank....only a foot away. It will insist on focusing on something random, but closer. Maybe there's a reasonably priced P&S that has a good autofocus and manual focus. I'm looking at or around $300.

About how much are the S2IS and S3 IS going for? Also, tetratech, how big is yours? I don't really like those bulky cameras that are as big as my head. It doesn't have to fit in my shirt pocket or anything though.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 23:54Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Matty I've seen the S3 for $399 locally, might even be cheaper online. I bought my S2 for $425 about a year ago.

If you don't know it this
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons3is/
is a great review site. Here they review the S3 and compare it to the S2 (mine). It probably has the exact dimensions as well.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 00:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Yeah, that's not a bad size, a little less than 12 cm long. The price is a bit more than I like though. Some places have it for $340 or so. I guess I could hold off on any more corals for a month or two.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 00:23Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I would go for it. For that money I think it's tough to beat. It also has a great video feature 640 x 480 30fps.

Oh yeah, one more thing, the new one is in stealth mode.


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 00:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I finished the LF style makeover challenge. It looks a bit like a new tank. There was only one group that I didn't touch...the nesea. True...the stems are a bit tall in the back, but I've spent over 6hrs on this tank in the last two days. I don't feel much like doing any more trimmings. Other than that, and the glosso planting which you know about, I aforded the glosso a bit more room, moved the tenellus over to meet the glosso, pushed the potomageton into the back, stargrass in front of that, and the baby's tears make up the left side along with a small bunch of the ludwigia. New rock is the one on the left. I kinda like it there, but I'd like to know what others thought. Comments, as always, are much appreciated.













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Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 01:01Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Oh yeah, one more thing, the new one is in stealth mode.

yeah, I saw that. I liked it a bit better than the silver one. I don't think that alone is worth an extra $50, but there's a couple other cool upgrades.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 01:03Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Matty, Matty, Matty....

You know the tank looks good, it's starting to look "damn" good.

Now that the falls are filled in more I could really see this thing being beautiful.

The additonal rock looks good and I'd love to see the glosso just run right through all those rocks, but in order to do that you'd have to move the tenellus which I know you just moved. I think the glosso should pretty much run through the tank with maybe alittle tenellus here and there breaking it up. I also thing the nesea takes away from the falls. I know you know it's too tall, but it would be much cleaner looking without it. I could almost see the tenellus back in there behind the glosso and also small patches of it around the tank.

Now it's fine tuning and keeping everything healthy. Really nice. Can't wait to see the glosso fill in more.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 02:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I don't know about damn good, but thanks tetratech. It was tough working with the falls and the glosso. If you go back to the other pics and look at the amount of glosso and how much I used for this you'll realise I'm about two good fist sized clumps short. I tossed a lot of glosso due to breakage and bendage and plain ol' frustration. The size of the holes in the mesh were a little too perfect for my liking. But I think it will be worth it if it grows in nice...and preferably fast.

But you're right, it's starting to look like my vision. At least a little.

So you think just the falls and the short stuff huh? No stems at all? Just glosso and tenellus even. I know I'm going to want a splash of color with something. All that bright green will be boring. I'm really liking how red the ludwiggia stays without being picky about ferts, because I know they aren't fine tuned yet, but the new growth is staying red. I also have some wallichi in there, but I don't think it's too happy right now, but I reduced the water lettuce up above to hopefully give more light.

I know the nesea will probably have to go, but it really bugs me, this weird growth I get from it. It makes me want to get it right. Determination and all that. Plus I've seen how beautiful it can be.

Thanks for the nice comments. You're right, mostly just fine tuning from here, hopefully. I'm trying to view a tank just full of glosso with only a coulpe chain swords to break it up. Not a bad vision IMO .



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Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 05:37Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I think you could have some stems in there and definitely color here and there, but anything tall takes away from the falls. I like that "anything tall takes away from the falls". Anyway I could really see that glosso cascading down across the tank.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 14:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I could see the glosso spreading across the remainder of the tank after several months, covering the rocks and creating its own contours along the way - and to break it all up, just have a big red tiger lotus reaching up on the left side. Trippy man.


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Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 15:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Well, so far so good. The glosso seems to want to stay planted in the mesh. I was afraid the stuff would go popping out of there. Hopefully it will take firm root soon.

I happened to see all 4 otos today, so I decided to do a fish count.

8/8 praecox rainbows
8/10 featherfin rainbows
4/4 otos
1/2, maybe 2/2 syno cats.

I can't beleive I still have 4 otos, this has never happened before. It's still early to say they will be permanent residents, but who konws. Up until today I had only seen 3 of them at once, so I feared the worst for the fourth. I did buy a second syno petricola cause I never saw the first one. I've since seen the second(I can tell which because the second cat I bought was markedly bigger), but not the first. It's still possible I didn't see him during the whole makeover procedure, but it's unlikely. The second has a preferred hiding spot that I know about, so keeping an eye on him will probably be easy.

That's all really. I, like tetratech, am trying to keep it at least a little busier around here. One thing I have been thinking of is making an effort to do some plant profiles. maybe we can get the team together and divvy up some plants so we all know what's going on. This way we won't have to point newbies to sites like tropica.com(which I think is relatively slow and lacking in actual photos, however abundant in info)....they can just browse our profiles. Just a thought, but I'm going to try to do one a day or a few a week for a while...until I start getting into exams.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 02:18Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Matty,

I really like the idea of doing plant profiles here. We probably have enough crazy plant people to do it but I wont be any help until after new years. This semester is killing me. I think this is the first day this week I have spent any time on the forum.

As for your tank. Looks much nicer. You have a lot of different textures. I think that is a good thing. Something I am lacking in my tank.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 14:28Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Well I got anubias nana done and hygro polysperma. Thanks to whoever voted for them....it was like magic. I submitted them before I went to bed and in the morning they were profiles. At first I'm going to do the ones I have pics for, then move on to other stuff. Wings, they really only take about 20 minutes to complete...one a week won't be so tough. Really though I understand when it gets to that point where you want to do anything but sit at a computer and do work. Good luck with the semester



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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 15:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I also like the idea of doing plant profiles, every now and then I open one up to start on but then i feel like a fraud doing it. I feel like I'd basically just be copying info from tropica, because their info is very good and pretty much spot on.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 15:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
DeletedPosted 22-Sep-2006 16:13
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TW
 
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Your LF style makeover looks pretty darn good.

Congratulations on the plant profiles too

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 16:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Thanks for the compliment Tankwatcher

i feel like a fraud doing it.


The way I look at it is that if I've never kept the plant in my tank successfully then I don't know enough to make a profile. If I have, then I can reliably tell people how to grow the plant. Tropica doesn't have to be involved. I don't bother going to other sites to see what sounds better, I just do it from what I know. I'm sure you can do the same. Anywho, don't copy, just put down personal experiences, and others can always add on later. The most important thing IMO is that we get down the basics for the plant, lighting requirements and care level. After that I guess height and things like that are important, but unreliable at best. I'd be happier if we could just put down short medium or tall, because any attempt to be accurate is innevitable to fail with things like height. Besides tropica is lacking a bit in the personal department anyways. Our profiles can include a bit of what the author thought of the plant without getting carried away, and that is more important than height IMO.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 16:26Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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After that I guess height and things like that are important, but unreliable at best. I'd be happier if we could just put down short medium or tall, because any attempt to be accurate is innevitable to fail with things like height.


That's actually a great point about the size. I'm uncomfortable saying how many inches anubias barteri grows to - look at keith's, his are huge, much larger than the norm. Tank placement would be another good category that would compliment the size category, because that's what someone is probably looking for anyway.

Maybe we can petition adam to adjust the categories for plants when he gets the time if we promise to actually fill them in... ?


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 16:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I've already posted a want for the plant profiles in the site feedback area, a searchable field for lighting. I think once we get enough profiles up he'll feel like it might warrant the effort. Right now there's no reason for searching. Feel free to add to mine or post your own. I think it's a good idea. I've just been including that info into the care section or the comments section.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 16:36Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I really am all for the idae of plant profiles because I am starting planted tanks now and I want to learn about the individual plant requirements and not have to go site to site

-Vincent
Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 22:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I hear you on the fraud thing, but you have to see it this way:

Basically, we all are frauds

Well, not really, of course. But we all once knew nothing about fish and plants, and then we learned something. No matter if most knowledge that I have about plants comes from Bensaf () and you folks, I sure do know my own share of things now, like first hand experience in seeing Anubias covered in BBA

And yeah Matty, the tank looks nice now and seems to be a good basis for future style corrections

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 23:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Thanks LF for the comments, I agree about the whole fraud thing. How many of us have actually "invented" anything for the hobby?

So OT again to the subject of cameras. I was looking at the cannon powershot A630. At tetratech's link up there I set it up next to the S3 IS and did a little comparason. Basically the two things the IS has going for it is the IS and the 12X optical zoom. It's also a bit better in a couple features like macro and shutter speed. The A630 has pretty much all the same features, but a couple more megapixel sensor, a larger lcd screen, it's about $100 cheaper, and is smaller and lighter.

Here's the comparason. I'd really appreciate input from you guys on this one.



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Post InfoPosted 24-Sep-2006 01:23Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Matty,

I wish I could help you with the camera stuff, but I had a lot of help from NowherMan6 figuring out how mine works. Plus, he was the one who recommended my lense to me. In other words, if you think I am bad with handling my algae issues wait until I start handing out camera advice

Sorry,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 24-Sep-2006 01:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Nobody else on the camera?

Well I ended up getting few more fish today. The furcata rainbows were looking particularly fantastic so I got 3m,3f. Thier gold fins and blue eyes are incredible.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 04:39Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wish I could help Matty, especially since you've been so helpful on my pump choice issue.

I know nothing about cameras. My camera is a pretty shabby Kodak Easy Share, that takes ok pictures of things that don't move & pretty lousy pictures of swimming fish.

Sorry.

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TW
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mughal113
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EditedEdited by mughal113
Hi Matty,
The S3 certainly looks the better choice (quite heavy thought, half a kilo ). A difference of 2MP is not going to be a great deal, believe me. Above 5MP, everything is just about the same.
Along with the macro mode, look for a quickshot (fast shutter) mode. I have a cannon S60 and it has the feature. I can photograph a running fan using this mode with all three blades clearly visible without any blur. That helps a lot capturing quick fishies.
http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canons60/
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LITTLE_FISH
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The furcata rainbows were looking particularly fantastic so I got 3m,3f.
So, while trying to get us all to talk about the camera options you are sneaking another school of rainbows into the tank. Now you have 3 different species there, right?

I one heard that Rainbows in general interbreed, what is your opinion on that?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 16:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Thanks for the help everyone, mughal, the A630 does have a sshutter speed priority mode, and just about any combination of shutter, ISO, and aperture can be selected in manual mode. My Nikon that I have now never leaves manual mode. I'm hoping that might change with whatever new camera I buy. I'm pretty much set on the A630 unless somebody has something very negative to say about it. It comes "highly recommended" from dpreview and has most of the options I'm looking for and falls within(or should I say closer to) the budget, than the S3. I know how cool the IS is supposed to be, but is generally more usefull for use at the 12X zoom region, which I won't have to worry about in the A630. I'm still mulling it over, and probably will be until my camera breaks or christmas comes.

LF - Rainbows of the same family will interbreed, yes. I have selected 3 rainbows from 3 different families. Furcatas are psuedomugil, Praecox are melanotaenia, and the threadfins are iriatherina. Unfortunately it's a moot point anyways, as I never have had anything want to spawn for me. In the (I think) 6 yrs of keeping fish it's never even come close, though I've never owned any live bearers or anything that breeds like rabbits. I have thought about keeping some live bearers, just to boost my confidence, but what if they didn't breed . This will be the last type of rainbow I buy, unfortunately, as I'm about out of common dwarf rainbows from different families, and out of room to house a large enough number of them. Plus I'll want to fill out the 3 species I have. Maybe just a couple more of each species. I know it sounds like a lot of fish, but they are all slim, small fish.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 18:33Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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More is not always more. Less maybe more at times. That is just my thoughts though. It is your tank and you have to look at it so you be happy with it. Don't let us bug you about it.

In my tank I only have 3 types of fish:

Brilliant rasboras
Guppies
Otos

I like it simpler...

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Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 18:48Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Matty,

Sorry to get here late re: the camera talk, but here's my two cents anyway:

The Canon A series is very hard to beat, you can't go wrong there. They're easy to use and come out with very good results. I never tested out the AF tracking with an A series, so I can't comment on that, but my guess is there will be similar limitations on this just the same as on any P&S. Also, with 8 million pixels crammed onto a tiny sensor it's going to be pretty noisy at high ISOs, so don't expect miracles. Using a +1/3 exposure compensation can help turn down the appearance of noise, but it'll still be there if your at 400 or above.

And just a rule of thumb for you pixel peepers out there re: resolution. For practical purposes mughal113 is pretty much right, when printing out up to probably 5X7, maybe 8X10, you wont notice the difference between 5 and 8 megapixels. However, that's still agreat difference in resolution and the amount of detail captured. As a rule of thumb, all things being equal, there has to be about a 50% increase in pixels in order to notice a difference when viewing up close. 5MP to 8 is over 50%, and you'd definetely notice. But going from 5 to 6 is negligable, as is going from 6 to 8, 8 to 10 or 10 to 12. Making small jumps like that is a waste if that's what one is basing a decision on, all it'll lead to is an increase in noise. better a smooth 8MP than noisier 10 IMO.

Actually, just looking at it now, the A630 does have a continuous AF mode, which is what you'll need (not need, but it'll come in handy) for shooting moving objexts like fish. Definetely a plus. Go for it.

Nice rainbows by the by


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 18:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Nowher- thanks for the reply, late or not. I'm not into rushing decisions of this magnitude and above. So the fact that the A630 has more megapixels and a larger sensor than the S3 is a good thing, right? If the sensor were the same size and more megapixels, that would not be good? From the review(of the A620), it said that the camera handled the noise at high ISO's better than most similar cameras, and when the pics were lined up I could definitely tell the difference.

Wings- I tried the less is more approach with cardinals in my last tank. I didn't like how they sat in a corner by themselves all day. Not my thing. I decided with this tank that I would go for a bunch of active, attractive little fish. So far so good, as they buzz all over the tank all day. I guess I enjoy the activity, though some might say it detracts from the planted tank. And really, I don't have that many different fish. 3 types of rainbows, otos, and syno cat. I might think of a dwarf cichlid, maybe not. I know people who would have 2 of this and that with the same total number of fish(or more).



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Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 19:43Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Nowher- thanks for the reply, late or not. I'm not into rushing decisions of this magnitude and above. So the fact that the A630 has more megapixels and a larger sensor than the S3 is a good thing, right? If the sensor were the same size and more megapixels, that would not be good? From the review(of the A620), it said that the camera handled the noise at high ISO's better than most similar cameras, and when the pics were lined up I could definitely tell the difference.


Just the opposite, actually. The sensor on the A630 is smaller than on the S3, but there are more pixels crammed onto that smaller sensor than there are on the larger S3, which is why the A630 is noisier.

That said, compared to other cameras in its class, it's probably the smoothest of the bunch, canaon is just good at that stuff. For practical purposes the noise probably wont be an issue, but the above was just to clarify...


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Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 20:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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1/1.8" = 14mm dia. (A630) is bigger than 1/2.5" = 10mm dia. (S3). So the A630 has a bigger sensor...no? Though I do see that most 8mpixel cams are 2/3" which is larger than the A630. Maybe that's what you are saying. I'm going off their info, I don't have any real camera training, so correct me on this issue if I'm wrong.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 20:59Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Matty,
I'm certainly no camera guru, but I noticed on the side by side that the 630 doesn't have image stablization. That is a big plus when holding the camera under say 1/25 sec, otherwise I think your tripod bound. Also I couldn't tell from the review, but my s2 and the s3 have the supermicromode which let's you take a pic right up against the glass of the tank. The zoom issue isn't a factor with aquaria, but at 12x it does come in handy elsewhere.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 25-Sep-2006 21:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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1/1.8" = 14mm dia. (A630) is bigger than 1/2.5" = 10mm dia. (S3). So the A630 has a bigger sensor...no? Though I do see that most 8mpixel cams are 2/3" which is larger than the A630. Maybe that's what you are saying. I'm going off their info, I don't have any real camera training, so correct me on this issue if I'm wrong.


I was mixing up the pages I was looking at. I thought the former was the latter, and vicey versey.

In that case you should be right. Have you seen any examples of high ISO pics from the A630?

Either way, what tetra mentioned in IS should be a more important factor than noise. Pixel peeping is a horrible disease. Sometimes I look through a magazine, like People for example, and I'll think "ugh, how can they publish that picture of Jennifer Anniston and Vince Vaughn - it's soo damn noisy!" It's not somethign to get caught up in, just something to consider.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 19:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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For the A630 the 400 ISO looks entirely useable in good light, and the 800 ISO looked like it would be ok to use to catch the fast stuff if the lights are good and if I'm going to be using for internet posting. At full resolution, the 800 ISO was pretty bad, but the 400 wasn't bad at all. Compared to other cameras of similar caliber the noise is less with the canon. I think the S3 IS is just as bad with noise. I don't think you can say that any non-SLR is great with noise, and I'm not going to get an SLR, so whatever camera I look at will have the problem. I was really impressed otherwise with the quality of shots to come from the A630. It would be like 5 or 6 steps up from my current camera, which in all reality has treated me pretty well for the last few years.

I'll still think about it for a while, maybe I'll plead with a couple family members to combine xmas for me and go for the S3 IS, or the A710 IS.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 01:15Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
It's been about a week since my last update, and I did a water change and a bit more trimming/removing etc. This time the nesea went. I guess I'll never learn the cause and solution to the stunting odd growth leaves. On a brighter note I saw both nynodontis cats today. one makes his home under the ludwiggia and the other makes his home under a rock on the death star.

So...to the pics:


An LF slightly tilted frontal


A matty special


from the left side


a bit of a closeup on the chain swords


I dunno what it is about those chain swords that hooks me.

There's still some green algae growing around on the glass and hardscape, but I would guess that it's my fault for continually adding groups of fishes. We'll see if that settles out now that I'm done with the fish buying for a while. I thought about checking all my parameters, but I'm feeling lazy and have laundry to do, so I'll do it next time.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 02:19Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Dr. Bonke
 
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This tank is really taking off into something special, the waterfall already at this stage looks better than I ever would have imagined! In general, your tank looks beautiful and healthy, but why don't you do something about that background? I don't know it it's just me, but personally I hate seeing cables from equipment hanging in the back of my "garden" Just put a black or a blue piece of cardboard behind the tank and it'll look a lot better... if you like the white, then use a white piece, just so that the horrid cable is no longer visible.
Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 08:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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It's looking really beautiful matty.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 12:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
It's starting to look sweet, much better with the removal of the nesea, but someone put a thin black plant there instead. Is that "Vallisneria cable"? I'm not sure if that fits in. Otherwise very nice, I would like to see the glosso run more into the middle of the tank.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 13:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Is that "Vallisneria cable"?



Matty,

Your tank is looking very nice. Good changes! There is much more flow to the tank now!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 14:08Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
nellis
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Hey Matt, finally got the internet hooked up here in beantown.
The tank is looking great! I have to admit I was pretty skeptical about the glosso covering the deathstar, but it's filling in wonderfully.

I was reading about your petricolas.... They're extremely nocturnal. Get a moonlight and you'll see a lot more of them. Mine would be out the minute the lights went off scrounging around for food (before they died of strange, seizing fits).

How's the Fish Hole holding up? Did Jake get some reliable help?
Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 15:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Is that "Vallisneria cable"? I'm not sure if that fits in.


It's falling on deaf ears, my friend.. but you might as well keep hammering the point home anyway

Any chance you can snap away a pic or two of these cats Matty? or, failing that, provide a link?


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 16:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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It's falling on deaf ears, my friend.. but you might as well keep hammering the point home anyway


I continually forget to buy the background. It's on the to do list, I swear. I want to say that I'll get it sunday, but so far I have a bad track record of remembering the background. I'll get it eventually.

Nate, it's good to hear you made it to boston safely. Any updates at your forum yet? I'll have to go check it out and see how well the tanks travelled. I'll see into one of those moon lights. My light on my sump has them and I don't use them. Maybe I can tear them out of there . Jake got some new help, I haven't even met them yet. They've probably worked there for 3 or 4 weeks now. I don't really know anybody that works there any more, everybody has dropped to minimal hours or quit for school or other reasons. Makes me feel old to have the most seniority other than the managers.

Sorry nowhere, no possible chance of getting these guys in a pic. here's to planet catfish. Pretty ok article. I've never seen a 4" petricola though. We have a few at the store that have been there for years and are maybe a little bigger than 2 inches. They are in a heavily planted, well taken care of 75g tank. These aren't very nocturnal and are out all the time, which made me falsely beleive I'd see mine a bit more. Mine are probably a bit over half an inch right now and like to hide. Any pic I'd try to get would show little more than there hiding place .



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Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 16:44Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Matty,

Looking very nice, the glosso really is growing in. But I wouldn't be me if I would not have something to nag about

I think one of the downsides of the water fall is that it curves in the back, meaning the plants that are growing there are not visible from the front (at least that is how my tired eyes see it at 4 in the morning).

With regards to the background: Go to one of these hobby stores, like what chain is out there? Moore or something like that. They have these $5 thick cardboard sheets in all kinds of colors (make sure it is 36" long) and that is a cheap alternative for "real" tank backgrounds. I have used about 3 of them by now for my 20G and I am thinking of a few more different colors, just for the fun of it, like a reddish orange to show a sunrise (sunset,whatever).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Sep-2006 10:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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What you are looking for is matting material (the stuff that goes around pictures). I picked some up for my 29G a while back as they were running a half off sale!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 29-Sep-2006 14:06Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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LF, with the construction of the falls, I tried my best to get it to match up against the sides of the tank, but unfortunately the pvc is rounded on the corners. It didn't end up matching perfectly so I pushed it as close as possible on the front right side, and decided that I'd stick some stems in the back left which I've done. I think the front right will fill in completely with glosso eventually, and that's the look I'm going for, and probably what people who aren't so darn picky will notice the most. The back will have to be as it is. Just an inherent problem I'll keep trying to cover up.



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Post InfoPosted 29-Sep-2006 17:40Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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who aren't so darn picky
- hey, I have nothing else to complain about, at least not when it comes to your tank

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Sep-2006 21:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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HUGE update for tomorrow...you guys won't beleive your eyes. Just a warning.

*feels suspense build*

*shines new blue badge*



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Post InfoPosted 02-Oct-2006 05:14Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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HUGE update for tomorrow...you guys won't beleive your eyes. Just a warning. *feels suspense build*
*shines new blue badge*
Not fair, I won't have access to a computer for the next 4 days (not quite true, but not one that I can log onto FP anyway) So I guess, I'll be late for the update

Cheers
TW
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Wingsdlc
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Ok its tomorrow where is it???????

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 02-Oct-2006 14:01Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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*shines new blue badge*
Well that is nice, congratulations. I have to say that I had something to do with it, as I voted for all the plant profiles you created (almost all, can't vote for the ones that I know nothing about).

Anyway, what is the surprise? You found a wallpaper for the tank?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Oct-2006 15:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
All apologies to tankwatcher, here's The HUGE update. LF totally ruined it. I got a background. Totally anticlimactic thanks to LF. I guess now it's just a regular ol' weekly update.

Aside from the background I got 3 amano shrimp and a crypt balansae that was only $0.50. The amano shrimp are in response to some more hair types of algae growing here and there. Nothing major yet. Hopefully they will help keep it in line. I also turned up the CO2 some more. I haven't even been measuring it, but the fish look just fine. The crypt was so cheap I had to get it. I'll turn it into some profit, because it fits in with the scheme OK now, but probably not when it gets tall.

So onto the pics. Frank will be happy, but tetratech might not, I got rid of his wire plant.


Frontal, notice the background


Nice angle looking at the falls.


The falls continueing to fill in.


My favorite spot in the tank right now...and a furcata.


View from the left side.


Matty special.

Welp that's it for this week. As usual comments/crits are welcome.



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Post InfoPosted 02-Oct-2006 22:04Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Wow Matty!

The Glosso is filling in really nicely. You can hardly see the pvc any more. It looks like it was well worth your time of planting it all over the Death Star.

The full tank shot shows nice growth and a very nice flow to things. Nothing is overly distracting but it might be nice to find a way to make the DS not compeat as much with the sweet looking far left side. Having the red plan pop out of the sea of pearl grass next to the rock is very nice.

It might be nice to let the chain swords curve around from where it meets the glosso to the back left side. Then move the pearl grass and cool red plant in its place.

Your favorite spot in the tank is also one of mine too!

What did you use for a background? You seem to have the same problem as I with yoru background. It shows off the water spots on the back! I am too lazy to clean mine off right now.

Overall very well done!!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 03-Oct-2006 05:20Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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LF totally ruined it. I got a background. Totally anticlimactic thanks to LF.


Glad I could help ...

Anyway, I think the tank looks very nice now, to the point where I can envision it as almost complete. Besides the Glosso, the Pearl Grass seems to be growing really well in your tank (all others seem good also).

I think your Glosso is reaching the point where you will have to watch it more carefully for layered growth, the downfall of the Glosso in my tank. I am curious as how you will go about trimming it.

How is the Gayii (spelling?) doing? I had this plant for all of 24 hours and didn't like it too much.

Lastly, tell us more about the background. Is it a foil of some sort?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Oct-2006 13:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Thanks for the replys and nice comments guys,

Nothing is overly distracting but it might be nice to find a way to make the DS not compeat as much with the sweet looking far left side.


So you think the left side draws attention away from the falls? I suppose I could move the ludwigia closer to the falls. I'm not sure what kind of effect that will have though.

It might be nice to let the chain swords curve around from where it meets the glosso to the back left side. Then move the pearl grass and cool red plant in its place.


Yeah, I've been thinking of doing some more construction so things aren't in such obvious groupings. I do intend to allow more room for the glosso again during the next makeover. I'll probably want it to come right through the two rocks into the chainsword area. In the front I'll give it another 2-3 inches I think. That will give more of a water flow feeling I think. Right now it stops too abruptly. So everything else will be positioned around that.

What did you use for a background? You seem to have the same problem as I with yoru background. It shows off the water spots on the back! I am too lazy to clean mine off right now.


To answer both of you, it's just one of those plastic jobies you find at the lfs. It's double sided, so I can switch over to black if I feel the need, though I kinda like the blue. And I'm not sure that there are any water spots on the glass. I think the back was pretty clean. You may be talking about the bubbles though. That's from a water change. It may just be an effect of the pic too. I didn't really pay attention to them.

I think your Glosso is reaching the point where you will have to watch it more carefully for layered growth, the downfall of the Glosso in my tank. I am curious as how you will go about trimming it.


Hmm. To me it's not filled in enough. I'm sure it will be a couple weeks before I take scissors to it. I'll probably be pretty brutal with the trimming. Just cut it right back down. Maybe take some of the cuttings and place them into the mesh in addition to what is already there so it fills in faster each time. I don't mind if things look a bit weird for a few days or a week. And I guess I'll skip over the places that cover the pvc because it seems like that will take the longest to happen since I can't plant anything there.

How is the Gayii (spelling?) doing? I had this plant for all of 24 hours and didn't like it too much.

I like it. I think it's perfect for where I put it as long as it stays healthy and full. I did plant it real close together, so we'll see how that goes. I've already spread some trimmings around and thrown some out, so it seems to be growing well since I moved it from the front right corner which is really shaded. It's also the only dark green plant I have, so it makes a nice contrast with the super bright green plants. Thinking about that corner, I'm not sure the glosso is going to take well there. I may need to cover that spot with something, maybe some crypts or something else with lower light requirements.



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Post InfoPosted 03-Oct-2006 16:00Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Looks great, Matty. It'll be no time flat before that glosso starts growing 5 layers deep and you rip your hair out pulling it up and replanting

The left side is very very nice. The challange as the tank grows in will be to have that side flow together with the glosso falls on the right. Something has to unify the two sides to make the scape conherent throughout. Right now it seems the tenellus is acting as just a divider between the two sides.

Excellent growth and plant health it seems - don't you want to give us a few patented LF close-up blemish shots to show the parts that aren't as perfect?




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Post InfoPosted 03-Oct-2006 16:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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What? six shots weren't enough. Closeup shots are VERY difficult with my camera, ones that you can tell any detail and are in focus anyways. A quick snap and post is impossible. I like to spend the effort on a good shot on the nice stuff . If that's what the people want though, I aim to please, I'll try to get up some shots of the nasties, but you don't have to worry about the imperfections, they are there. Like I said, I got some hair algae growing, and some green fuzzy stuff. I'm hoping not for long though. Extra CO2 and some shrimpies should help.

I agree about the tenellus divider. In my mind it was better that the baby's tears and glosso could be differentiated, but that might not be the case.



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Post InfoPosted 03-Oct-2006 16:43Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I agree about the tenellus divider. In my mind it was better that the baby's tears and glosso could be differentiated, but that might not be the case


I agree with you on that, the leaf shapes may be too similar to have them close together.

Now that I look at the tank again, it seems to be taking on a "Dutch-style" garden look, and that works with the arrangement you have now. It may be a matter of seeing how everything fills in before doing anything major. My bad


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Post InfoPosted 04-Oct-2006 15:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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My bad


Nope, not bad, comments are always good. And you are right that it forms a street right up to the front. I think it's too soon to go messing around in there again, otherwise I'd try something else out. Maybe if the baby's tears grow up a bit so that you can see them just peeking up over the swords it might seem more like a natural patch than a dutch street. Anyhow, I'm going to let things settle in for a while before I go digging around again.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Oct-2006 21:46Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Matty

Glad to see you have background now. It makes the tank look better. Very impressed with everything in the setup & growing of everying thing in there

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 06-Oct-2006 00:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Thanks Robyn.


Well I'm still getting some weird algaes, so yesterday I decided to run some tests. pH was 6.6, KH was 6 for a CO2 of 45ppm. Nitrates were a bit above 10ppm. Nitrites were 0, but the weird thing was I had a tiny tiny amount of ammonia. It wasn't really a measurable amount, but it wasn't clear either. So I decided that my 204 isn't going to cut it, and I put a penguin 150 on the back of the tank. Turns out it doesn't fit over the edge real well and the output doesn't go down to the water line, so there is lot's of splashing. I immediately turned it off because I wanted CO2 in the tank. So today I have to jimmy rig some sort of extra output contraption.



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Post InfoPosted 07-Oct-2006 16:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Ahhh, Mr Fix-it & do it yourself Matty. Now we would expect you to be the one to jimmy rig some sort of contraption

Cheers
TW
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Matty,

It seems to me that you are having tanks only so you can build stuff

Anyway - That sounds a little fishy to me. How can it be that you have ammonia but no nitrites? Under normal conditions, wouldn't that mean that your tank is at the beginning of a cycle? If I am not mistaken, don't plants like ammonia as food much more than nitrate? What do you think?

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Post InfoPosted 08-Oct-2006 11:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Matty,

You must watched a lot of red green when you were growing up.

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See all my pictures at Google Web Albums
Post InfoPosted 08-Oct-2006 14:43Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Ahhh, Mr Fix-it & do it yourself Matty. Now we would expect you to be the one to jimmy rig some sort of contraption

Well I used some eggcrate, aka light diffuser, and siliconed that to the output of of the penguin. looks like a mess, but I think it should work well. I'm going to let it continue to cure for the rest of today, and I'm going to pick up some filter cartridges while I'm at work.

It seems to me that you are having tanks only so you can build stuff


Isn't that half the fun?

You must watched a lot of red green when you were growing up.


I have no idea what red green is We talking about stop lights?

That sounds a little fishy to me. How can it be that you have ammonia but no nitrites? Under normal conditions, wouldn't that mean that your tank is at the beginning of a cycle? If I am not mistaken, don't plants like ammonia as food much more than nitrate? What do you think?


Well anytime I've seen an incomplete cycle(either underfiltration, overfeeding, over stocking), it's always ammonia, and sometimes nitrite, sometimes not. I've seen more samples of water while working at the Fish Place than I care to mention. For the most part people who use whispers always have trace levels of ammonia without nitrite(because you HAVE to trash the filter media every month). Same with the people that have aquaclears that go heavy on the cleaning. The people who have ammonia and nitrite seem not to take care of their tanks(no water changes, gravel vacs, filter maint.) at all and over feed/over stock. But I'm talking a real slight level of ammonia. If I didn't think there was anything there I woldn't have taken it into full light, put it on a white background....that sort of thing. It's not even enough that the fish are concerned about it, which is why I was a bit surprised. All the fish are really active and always begging for food. It's all just anectodal observation, so I'm sure some more scientific approach could negate everything I said there.
I bet you are right too about the ammonia, it would probably be worse, but the plants and algae are using some of it. Hopefully the filter will clean things up and help take care of the algae. If this doesn't work, I'm going to have to seriously look at my ferts and lighting, but I think I'm good there. The worst of it is on the glosso especially up towards the right. The chain swords have some on the older leaves, but the baby's tears and star grass seem immune, probably cause they grow so fast.


If you guys think think I like to DIY stuff, wait till you see my new project...it's already underway.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Oct-2006 15:59Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
I'm afraid to ask!

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2006 04:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
wait till you see my new project...it's already underway
Either a hood for the tank or you build yourself a car

Anyway - As I am no longer opposed to overfiltration (see my 125 in the last 20 pages to follow filter discussion) I would say that you can always add this filter. But for the traces of ammonia, I would assume that your tank in itself (you know, plants and stuff) should be able to handle it.

And didn't you do this fancy ammonia cycling first? Where would now come this cycle from?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2006 10:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Not only are you making a hood and rigging up a filter - you are probably even cutting glass, sealing it together & building yourself a new tank out of recycled glass.

After that, you will build the car Ingo mentions.

Cheers
TW
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You must watched a lot of red green when you were growing up
Watch PBS on Sunday nights. I think it is Sunday nights. I don't have a TV any more so I am a bit out of the loop.

http://www.cbc.ca/redgreen/ Check out the Handy Man Hall of Fame

If you guys think think I like to DIY stuff, wait till you see my new project...it's already underway
Can you use your old car for it?

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2006 14:40Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Anyway - As I am no longer opposed to overfiltration (see my 125 in the last 20 pages to follow filter discussion) I would say that you can always add this filter. But for the traces of ammonia, I would assume that your tank in itself (you know, plants and stuff) should be able to handle it.

And didn't you do this fancy ammonia cycling first? Where would now come this cycle from?


LF, you don't think I remember your filter discussion , tetratech and I took part I think. I wouldn't call adding this filter overfiltration. More like adequate. I started out with the fluval 204, recommended for 40 gallons. I added the penguin 125(I know I said 150 earlier, sorry!) because I was underfiltering. The ammonia is coming from too much bioload for the filter to handle. It's too small for the tank. I started out on page 1 saying I might need another filter, and this whole time I was watching, thinking that same thought.

It's not cycling BTW. There's just a very small amount of ammonia that isn't able to be broken down. There is a lot of ammonia being broken down, but there's a limit on the filter and the tank, and I went past that. All the ammonia that IS getting broken down into nitrite is also getting broken down into nitrate, but the filter can't take all the ammonia, so it just sits there, and builds up inbetween water changes.

I'd say the tank is handling it, in the form of some weird hair algae stuff. I'd rather the extra filter handle it than the algae, just my opinion.

you are probably even cutting glass, sealing it together & building yourself a new tank out of recycled glass.


Well I have sort of done this already. For my sump I had to reseal the 30G that came before my 38G, which had busted. Every single peice of glass was removed cleaned and resiliconed. I also had glass cut for the divisions in the tank and had to seal those in there too. Not the same as making my own tank, but that process was bad enough that I haven't had thoughts of making my own tank since. I always used to think of building tanks. Not any more, that was a pain!

I really didn't make a filter, I just made the filter output a little longer so there wasn't any splashing. That's no big deal. Now making a filter would be pretty cool.

And no car building...except pinewood derby. I used to do those as a kid in boy scouts.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2006 15:06Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Watch PBS on Sunday nights. I think it is Sunday nights. I don't have a TV any more so I am a bit out of the loop.

http://www.cbc.ca/redgreen/ Check out the Handy Man Hall of Fame


Some reason I didn't see your post....sorry! I've seen those guys before, but didn't know what to call it. Unfortunately I didn't watch a lot of handyman stuff as a kid, or I'd probably be better at rigging things up on my own. Every time I start a project I have to figure out how to do it first.

Oh, and LF didn't ruin it this time. I'll let you guys know as soon as I get some pics of the first completed step and start a thread. That means it's *kinda* hobby related.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2006 15:13Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Oh, and LF didn't ruin it this time.
- Come on, I know that you want people to guess what it is

I believe you threw the *kinda* word in there to throw us off, it is fully hobby related is what I would think.

Hm, maybe a sump for the freshwater tank, with holes drilling and all that kind of stuff.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2006 17:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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My guess is a PVC Canister filter

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2006 19:26Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Come on, I know that you want people to guess what it is


But for the sake of surprise, I didn't give enough hints. Time's running out on the guessing.


And it really is only *kinda* hobby(fish that is) related. I wouldn't lie. I'm worried if I'll be able to post it up. Frank may have to delete it, joke Frank....please don't delete it. It does involve a fish tank so maybe it will slide.

Not a sump, and not a PVC cannister filter, though, I've thought of making a pvc housing for an in-line submersible heater. That's kind of similar. I think a pvc cannister filter would be pretty tough to make...or make well(and cheap) anyways. I can see using a mag drive(external pump) on the "out" side of the pvc filter so it stays clean. I guess using that large diameter thin walled stuff would be good, the hardest part would be bringing the fitting size down to 1/2 or 3/4 inch fittings though. That would be expensive unless there's only one part needed. and normally you have to buy a 10 foot peice of pvc. That's also expensive. I can't see that being cost effective, but it would be fun.

I'll go ahead and start up a thread in an hour or two. I gotta go take some photos.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2006 21:48Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Check this out

The Planted tank forum has great DIY journals.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 12-Oct-2006 14:00Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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That's a very clean tank...equipment wise. All those unions and ball valves and fittings cost a fortune though. My guess is that if he didn't have a bunch of it lying around, is that he spent over $100 on plumbing alone. Might be worth it though. I know if I had the cash I'd make a clean tank like that, but it wouldn't do that to any silly 37 gallon tank. That's like a waste of time IMO . I'm thinking the tall and wide 120. But that's for another day.

Good link wings.



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Post InfoPosted 12-Oct-2006 16:22Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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We;ve gotta introduce that guy in the link to tetratech!


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Post InfoPosted 12-Oct-2006 17:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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...in the link to tetratech
I guess tetratech doesn't have much to say these days either



Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 12-Oct-2006 21:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Perhaps, having perfected the large tank, and then the nano tank, he has moved on to more reefy pastures to begin his SW journey?


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Post InfoPosted 12-Oct-2006 21:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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he has moved on to more reefy pastures to begin his SW journey?
And that would be enough reason for him to drop us like a Riccia Rock?

I don't think so, I believe he would have invited us to the dark side forum to take a peak. But maybe he wants to set up his tank first and then come around.

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I really didn't know what the guy had into it but it sure looks nice. DIY doesn't always save money, sometimes it just makes things better.

I'm thinking the tall and wide 120. But that's for another day.
Are you talking about the 5 foot x 18" or the 4 foot x 2 foot. The discus tank at work is the 5 foot 120. It is a pretty nice tank but I really think I would like to do a 4 foot 120. It doesn't take up much space and you could take a bath in it!

drop us like a Riccia Rock
Nice wording!

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 13-Oct-2006 14:31Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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drop us like a Riccia Rock?

But I haven't seen him on the dark side, so I don't think that's the case.

I'm talking the 4 foot 120. 24" front to back is a lot of nice scaping room.



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Post InfoPosted 13-Oct-2006 16:57Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah the 4 foot 120 looks like it would be a sweet tank to play with. Someday I hope to get my hands on one.



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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 13-Oct-2006 17:42Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Time for an update. This last week or two I added a filter. I used aquaclear media simply because I like their media more, but I like the penguin filters, so I combine the two. Works great with the sponge jammed to the right side(water flows past this first), and the ceramic rings on the left(tetratech would love this setup, as water hangs out in this area for longer than normal, contact time). The filter bottomed out the CO2, even after I reduced splashing with a rigged up eggcrate extended output thingamabob. Since that failed, I had to think of something else. I had half an aquaclear sponge left over cause I bought a size too big to fit in the filter. I cut a hole in that and slid it up onto the eggcrate thingamabob and the water flows through the whole sponge, slowly, before entering the tank water. Now it works like a trickle filter, with absolutely no splashing. Cool, and the CO2 is back up to where it was previously.

So, onto the rest of the tank. The glosso has been filling in the upper portion of the glossofalls wonderfully(except for the hair algae), but growth is real verticle at the bottom, and leaves are browning falling off the glosso, indicating to me a lack of light. I guess I'll have to abandon the glosso down there and try to cover up with something less light demanding. Growth is good everywhere else in the tank, and a bit of weird hair algae remains, but seems to be already diminishing. I haven't gotten to trimming anything, so you'll be seeing the overgrown look.

First I promised a pic of something that looks not-so-hot in my tank, here's a shot of the hair algae on the glosso at the top of the falls:


The rest are just different angles on the tank, I didn't take any other closeups:










Enjoy



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Post InfoPosted 14-Oct-2006 19:05Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Matty,

Wow your tank is filing out nice! I have never really kept a lot of plants that spread out nice like that so I haven't experinced a fill out like many others have.

Looks great! Any ideas for dark area plants? Crypts?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 15-Oct-2006 03:28Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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looking good, I like the beware of attack fish sign

-Vincent
Post InfoPosted 15-Oct-2006 07:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
I haven't gotten to trimming anything, so you'll be seeing the overgrown look.
I like the overgrown look. It makes where the fall/slope joins the flat part look so much more natural. They just flow together so smoothly. If it doesn't cause too many shading problems, I'd leave it a little overgrown.

I like these shots the best.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 15-Oct-2006 10:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks guys, yeah I like the overgrown look too, but I'll probably hack it all down in a couple days - it does tend to shade out the bottom of the falls, that's why I wanted to post up pics.

I'm not real sure what I can put there wings. The glosso in the foreground seems to be getting enough light so I want to leave it there. I'm thinking some kind of moss might be the only low light plant I can put on the falls that won't shade out the glosso in the foreground. Anybody know if there's a lighter shade of green colored moss? Something closer to the glosso?



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Post InfoPosted 15-Oct-2006 15:21Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Sorry Matty, no moss expert here

Otherwise, the tank looks very nice, seems to almost have reached the max of what you can have in mass already (not the species though.

Yes, beware of the glosso overgrow, I cannot state this often enough as I don't want you to go the Ingo route with it. Having hair algae in it is not a good thing, I would assume that a major trim would be needed in that area to remove most of it. Bummer

I like the little red group maybe when it grows some more you could half a stem or two and make the group a little larger.

Have fun,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 15-Oct-2006 17:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks LF, I think tank conditions(trace ammonia) provided the hair algae growing conditions. I also think I corrected that. Hopefully it's on its way out. Don't worry, I'm listening to you about the growth layers...but it hasn't happened yet. I'll keep an eye out, I promise. I'll see about the red group. I've already trimmed it a few times, and I wasn't really tempted to make the group larger. I've just been trimming a couple inches off the bottom and replanting.

I was thinking today...how do you guys feel about some anubias nana petite down in the shaded area?



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Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 02:24Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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how do you guys feel about some anubias nana petite down in the shaded area?
Basically, doesn't sound like a bad idea, but I wouldn't be me if I would not have a word of caution:

- First, you would need quite a few there, let's say at least 5 in order to have a small group (no, I do know that Anubias are not schooling plants ). The cheapest access I ever had to Petite was $7 a piece, so that's $35 plus shipping.
- Depending how shaded the area is, they may not make an impression anyway. Did you know that I have 5 Petites in front of my big log in the 125? One cannot even see them in the shade of the NL Java Fern.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 09:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is a moss link for you! Odds of finding the stuff you want though are probably slim.

http://www.aquamoss.net/Moss-List.htm


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 14:25Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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First, you would need quite a few there, let's say at least 5 in order to have a small group (no, I do know that Anubias are not schooling plants ). The cheapest access I ever had to Petite was $7 a piece, so that's $35 plus shipping.


Well I do have some plant buying money, LF. I was thinkging of getting 7-8.

They'll be easily seen there, I think. I'm not thinking that will be a problem. It's too dark for glosso, but I think there will be plenty of light for the anubias. I'd even give it a 2wpg rating when both lights are on(the pictures are with just one light on).

Thanks for the moss link wings, I'll check that out before I make up my mind on the anubias.



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Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 17:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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That's it, I'm officially starting the "Free Matty's Glosso Brigade."

Trim that stargrass or whatever it is that's eating up the glosso on the bottom of the death star! Let the glosso grow free and roam! It's starting to fill in perfectly over there. For the hair algae, I would hold off on the a. petite nana and spend that money on a bulk order of Amano shrimp. They'll eat it, just in a tank that large you'd need quite a few, say 20-30.

I really wish I could find a copy of Amano's "Hill Rug" online, it's just what you're going for.


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Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 19:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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<-- Wonders where that money came from

Anyway, I was not really concerned that the Petites would not get enough light there. It was more that the spot is so dark that it will not be noticable from the front of the tank, at least in the pictures. I will post some shots of my 125 tonight and maybe you see what I mean.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 19:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well I did a major hack job on everything today, so you'll be happy nowher. I took out about 40 of the largest tenellus and some star grass to take to the store for $$. That still left maybe 20-30 little ones to replant with. I couldn't beleive how many were in there. In another month I'll be in the same position again.

Hmm...I'd think the petite would be noticeable there, but what I'm more concerned about I guess is that they'll grow and cover the mesh and pvc.



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Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 23:13Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I haven't done any updating here because I'm not really pleased with the tank right now, but thought I'd fill everybody in anyways.

The reasons I'm not pleased with this tank are that fish are dropping off, I only have 3/8 of the featherfins left, 2/4 otos from what I can tell, and 5/6 of the furcatas. I still have all the praecox but a couple of the females don't look too hot and the males lack color. I haven't seen the petricola cats in ages.

In addition I'm still having algae troubles, mainly on the glossofalls, but it's also spreading a bit everywhere else and requires harvesting every week.

I did a big water change today and pruned stuff and harvested hair algae, and cleaned the glass, so all in all it's looking pretty good so I took a picture. Here 'tis:




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Post InfoPosted 27-Oct-2006 23:39Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Now that is a bummer

I am wining about the loss of one fish and you loose at the same time about half your tank population without saying anything.

What are the symptoms in the rainbows? I remember that I lost my 3 female dwarfs within a matter of a few weeks, all became sluggish and started to breathe heavy, then developed dropsy, and then were removed from the tank.

The hair algae is hard to get rid off, I have a major issue with it in my 29G and even the best harvesting can not eliminate it and within a matter of 1 to 2 weeks it is back. Remember that I said you really have to give the glosso a major trim to get rid of the embedded algae? I think this would be the only way to remove it.

Otherwise, the tank looks very green, although all green is of the same color shade. There may be a chance to introduce some darker plant.

Sorry again for all the troubles,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Oct-2006 10:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So sorry about the fish loss, Matty. I hope the bad run is finished now.

It goes without saying that your tank is looking really good. Even though you say there is algae, it doesn't show in the pics & it all looks great in there.

Fingers crossed for your remaining fish

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Oct-2006 14:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well I saw a third oto so that's good news I wasn't positive I'd lost 2 of those as they can be tricky to spot. Also after the trim I was able to spot one of the petricola cats, still in its home under the ludwigia. The other is probably still there as well.

The featherfins have been disappearing for a couple weeks I'd say now. The symptoms appear to me like one gets weak and skinny and then vanishes. Then it happens to another one. I can't say they are starving or if they are it's their fault. I feed very small foods for my small fish. Baby brine or cyclopeez once a day, and every other day I mix brine or mysis in with it for the preacox. The second feeding is flake, and I make sure some of the flakes are crushed up pretty good for them. I dunno, maybe I need 3 feedings a day to keep these guys healthy?

The other fish do well, eat with gusto and swim around normally. Even the healthy looking featherfins do until they get skinny. The preacox don't seem really colorful, but they seem to be doing alright anyways. At least none of them are missing. Nobody is sluggish or breathing heavy. I think with the preacox the females are getting harassed a bit by the males, and the males are getting harassed a bit by the other males(remember the "fighting" I talked about awhile ago in this thread. They never stopped). I guess it could be parasites or something for the featherfins because they don't show any external symptoms. But I can't say that I'm going to try to treat for anything. I almost wish I'd have stocked this tank with 20 tiger barbs instead .

I agree I need some contrast in there Ingo, but I'm not going to be putting in new plants until I beat back this hair algae. That may be until fish stop dieing though, cause I never find them, and that means ammonia. So I guess this tank will go on the back burner for now till things settle.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Oct-2006 17:57Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Good call on waiting with the new plants, control is better

About the dying fishies, again: Hm, the one thing I see in your last post is that you eat quite a meat heavy diet. I am not sure, but aren't most rainbows rather on the vegetarian side? Maybe that is why they get skinny. But on the other hand, there are enough threads in there that they could munch on if they wanted.

Just a thought,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Oct-2006 20:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I forgot to say the flakes were veggie flakes. That's all I ever use for flake food really, except my marine fish which hardly ever get flake anyways. I use frozen stuff for the meats like you said.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Oct-2006 21:39Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Lost track of this thread...

Sorry about the fish loss Matty, I hope the tide turns on that soon enough

As for the plants, I like the lower look But I'm still interested to see how long your patience will last with that tennellus. I love tennellus, and if the whole bottom of the tank was tenellus I would say go for it because that would be pretty neat, but when you're trying to keep it controlled in a small space that's going to become a bi-weekly ritual, weeding it out.

Very impressive pearl grass


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Post InfoPosted 06-Nov-2006 23:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks nowherman

Unfortunately I've lost a couple more fish, including a male preacox. I think I might have gotten a bad batch of pvc or something like that and it might be leaching undesireables into the water. Could be internal parasites or who knows what else. Might be bad husbandry, but I'd argue with you about that. I'm thinking about tearing it down and starting fresh, but that won't be happening until xmas break maybe if at all. I barely have time to do the water changes every week much less to (re)set up a tank. Even the viv is on hold right now. If I do a tear down, I won't retry the falls. I'll do somthing entirely different. It would obviously include the tenellus whatever it is I do . And I can never lose patience with it. I just like it too much.



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Post InfoPosted 07-Nov-2006 03:20Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tenellus Obsessor = Matty
Wisteria Dominator = Tetratech
Tank Redo Ingo Style = LITTLE_FISH

Who else is out there?

Anyway, sorry to hear about all the trouble that the tank seems to give you at the moment. I don't have any reasonable explanation on why things are the way they are, but I am most certain that there is no single culprit here. I would assume that the fish are/were sick (which would explain the deaths) and that it may have been better not to add all at once (may explain the algae). But hey, afterwards we are all wiser, aren't we?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Nov-2006 14:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey I want in with the names!

LF,
I think you are on to something with the too many fish right away and algae theory.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 07-Nov-2006 14:53Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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The fish might be sick, but if they are, then I have no indicators as to what it is. They look active and healthy then I find one taking a nap in the pearl grass(if I find it at all). The only ones that look at all weak or anything were 2 of the featherfins, but those died shortly after I bought them, and well before the recent problems. I now only have 2 of those and they appear perfectly healthy. None of the praecox acted weird before I found one dead. I'm no disease and treatment expert, but I know a healthy/unhealthy fish when I look at it, even if I don't know why.

If the algae were only from putting too many fish in at once I wouldn't still have the problem. Especially since I have less fish now than I originally put in the tank(and more algae than the same). I've beat back algae before by dosing things right and upping the CO2 and what not. This time it doesn't seem to make a difference, but if the algae were the only problem I wouldn't be overly concerned, and I really don't mind a bit of hair algae, it's easy to harvest and grows pretty slow. IMO it's probably from fish dieing and not finding them, and the majority of the algae is about 6 inches away from the lights. The rest of the tank has some here and there. It's growing slower than the ludwigia glandulosa on the bottom of the tank, and I'd guess the ludwigia grows about 1 inch per week or two and there's only a little algae on the oldest couple leaves.

*shrugs*



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Post InfoPosted 07-Nov-2006 23:37Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Sorry to hear of the continued bad luck.

I certainly hope that things pick up & you don't have to re-do the tank. It would be a shame to lose the waterfall after all your hard work.

Hope all improves. I agree with what's been said. Although I read an article about fishless cycling which said you can add all fish at once with this method, I wouldn't trust to do that myself. If you decide to re-stock this tank, maybe go back to the tried & true method of gradually stocking a tank over a period of six months.

Anyway, fingers & toes are crossed for a change of luck with the tank.

Cheers
TW
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Post InfoPosted 07-Nov-2006 23:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Matty,

Yeah, that sounds kind of strange, how they just drop dead all of a sudden. I know that my female rainbows showed at least a few days of weakness symptoms, with standing still in one spot, close to the surface. And 2 actually developed dropsy. Actually, none of mine died so sudden that I found them dead in the tank, they usually died because of my action to remove their "pain".

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 11:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Matty, sorry for the fish loss.

Something must have shifted to lose all those fish in short order as well as your current algae issues. IMO the best way to avoid and combat problems is to do things slowly. I think most know this, but it's tough to resist when you see something good at the LFS. Algae like other forms of life at opportunisitic. The spores are there, just like parasites and other microscopic life forms. When conditions are right they come out and multiply. The biofilter, ecological balance in our tanks are very sensitive, they have to slowly adjust to any changes you make to the tank. Look at fish, when the temp changes quickly the fish can't adjust and they get sick, but the same fish will tolerate a temp shift if it comes about slowly. Your tank is the same way. When alot of fish are added at once (which means more food, more poop) the biofilter and other necessary components in the tank can't adjust either and creatures like algae get a foothold.

I think a full planted tank can hold alot of fish, but it needs to be stocked very sloooowly. Matty when you talk about all the food your feeding your fish to get them to eat, etc. it's very tough to invision your tank without algae. EI is an "Estimative Index" I don't think it matters if your off center that's the whold idea, you can be, it's estimative.




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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 15:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Matty when you talk about all the food your feeding your fish to get them to eat, etc. it's very tough to invision your tank without algae


I'm not overfeeding. The food gets eaten, and quickly. It's not hanging around in the tank. I'm not an overfeeder, I'm an underfeeder. My boss at work tells me to feed more, and he's usually telling people to feed less. Food is not the problem. It may have sounded like I feed a lot from my post above, sure I feed lots of types of food, that's called good husbandry. I'm not feeding lots of each type of food. I'm trying to slow the fish death carnage so I'm feeding them well(note well, not overfed) and doing waterchanges. Anyways, algae is a secondary concern right now as I said before and probably coming from all the fish I didn't find when they died(that would be a good foothold, right?). That's so likelly that I'm not really considering any other scenarios. It's not even all that bad, especially in the lower portion of the tank(read the majority) and especially compared to the loss of fish. Since I can't seem to do much about the loss of fish, I've got an experiment going that's controlling the light a bit directly over the glossofals area.

As far as something shifting to cause fish deaths, I agree, and I don't because it's not anything I can test for, and it's happening over an extended period of time. Also, the last change I made to the tank was 6 tiny little fish 3 weeks before I started having problems. I've ran temp, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, PO4, pH, gH, and KH tests and had them double checked at work. I've tested at multiple times during the day and for the past couple weeks since the fish first started dieing. The only thing I did find was that my ammonia test is bad and gives a slight ammonia reading when there is nothing, but reads fine otherwise. I probably never even had to put on the extra filter. IMO it's either internal parasites or some odd chemical leaching from the supplies I used during setup. I've ruled out internal parasites in my own mind because the fish are never lethargic and only the 2 first threadfins got skinny. Even now the male rainbows are all displaying back and forth to the females.

Oh, and I'm not much for the EI - remember, I'm the micromanager of macronutrients.

Anywho, thanks for the condolences and opinoins, even if it seems I'm a stubborn blockhead unwilling to listen to good advice. I'm really taking all into consideration.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 20:32Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Matty, I'm not picking on you the whole point of my post was that there are less problems when things are done slowly. Who really knows exactly why a fish might succumb, maybe there are things needed in the whole balance of things that we can't measure, etc.

The food gets eaten, and quickly. It's not hanging around in the tank. I'm not an overfeeder, I'm an underfeeder.
.
See here's the thing. That's great and I'm sure you doing that. If your feeding those different foods for good husbandry it doesn't necessarily mean it works in a high-light planted tank setup. I have one rainbow in my tank and the thing eats and poops nonstop. None of the food makes it to the bottom of the tank, but what about the other end of the feeding process. If the fish are eating and none of the food is making it to the bottom aren't they pooping more.

IMO I don't think high fish loads and high light planted tanks mix. I'm not talking about your tank, but in general. It's very difficult to keep the organics in the tank down where the light won't fuel algae growth. If one wants to increase his chances of success the fish load must be extremely gradual.







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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 21:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'm inclined to believe that sometimes fish just die I know in my 4G I had to purchase probably 10 or so Green Neon tetras before winding up with the final three that remained healthy. Wherever they're rasied - unless raised in small numbers in the tank of a hobbyist - many times they just don't cope well with transport to LFS, then transport to new tank. I've seen schools get shipped to an LFS in decent shape, then just die off. No one's fault really, maybe just poor genetics?


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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 22:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Food in doesn't equal poop out. It matters whether your fish eat the food or if it gets to the bottom. If it gets to the bottom and nobody eats it then the whole peice of food and all of it's nutritional value ends up as waste. However, if your fish eats it, a large portion of the nutritional value is stored and used for metabolic processes and growth and what not.

Other than that, I agree, and I was only trying to convey that I'm not overfeeding. I understand that the amount of food in a system can cause problems. But that doesn't have anything to do with the number of types of food I feed.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 22:41Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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This is what I hate about online forums. I think your misinterpreting what I'm saying. By the way are you a Taurus. Because I am

Food in doesn't equal poop out. It matters whether your fish eat the food or if it gets to the bottom. If it gets to the bottom and nobody eats it then the whole peice of food and all of it's nutritional value ends up as waste. However, if your fish eats it, a large portion of the nutritional value is stored and used for metabolic processes and growth and what not.


Thanks for the bio101 lesson. I agree with your statement (I was a bio major in colleague for two years), but not in relation planted aquaria. Let's take two identical tanks. They are exactly the same. One aquarist feeds their fish twice a day 7/days a week and other feeds their fish once a day (same amount each feeding) are you telling me the poop is the same. Doen't the fishes body only use what it can and the rest is waste. So if you agree with that there is more waste in the tank where the fish are feed twice a day. And that assumes all the food is eaten. Take it a step further and say the tank that is feed twice a day now has double the number of fish. Isn't there that much more waste accumulating in the tank compared to the other tank?

So would you agree it's harder to keep the tank that has double the fish and double the feeding clear of algae because of the built-up organics. Forget overfeeding/underfeeding I'm simply saying it's easier to maintain an algae free tank especially in high-light situations with less fish and less food going in. Who's to say what is overfeeding. Every tank is different, but when compared to a tank with less stock and less food your chances are better.





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Post InfoPosted 08-Nov-2006 23:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Nope I'm a leo...preeeow

I agree with what you said in the above.

Yes if you feed more it can lead to more algae. If there are more fish, the need to feed more is there too, and it's easier to get algae.

In a fairly empty tank(like mine is now ) there is less waste and less foods for algae.

I wasn't trying to disagree, just trying to point something out that needs to be taken into account IMO. This is what I was trying to point out. If you have two tanks that are fed the same amount, but one has a few more fish in it than the other. In the tank with more fish all the food is eaten. In the tank with less fish not all the food is eaten. The waste in these two tanks are not the same even though the food input is. The one with less fish and uneaten food will have more waste problems than the one with more fish and no uneaten food. However, if you were to feed both these tanks a certain amount per fish(so you are feeding the tank with more fish more food) then yes, the tank with more fish and more food input will have a greater succeptability(sp?) to algae.

That's all just an exception to the rule.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 01:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Agreed!!!

Geez, I post a few comments a week and I get into a debate about poop?

Where's LF? I guess I'll go pick on him for a while. Something about his flat 125g?

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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 01:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Matty, another Leo. Checked your profile and your BDay is 9 days before mine.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 01:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I knew we could come to some agreement this time.

At least I don't have to apologize to LF for cluttering up his log like last time.

So we decided that maybe my algae got a foothold because of my fishless cycle, but did we decide what to do about it now(without talking more about feeding, for the record I'll be continuing with 2 small feedings per day)?

Happy almost shared birfday robyn



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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 01:38Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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but did we decide what to do about it now(without talking more about feeding, for the record I'll be continuing with 2 small feedings per day)?
O.K. I can't mention feeding, can I say nutriential servings

I guess the only thing to do is reduce lighting if possible to 6 hours and don't add anymore stock.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 02:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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don't add anymore stock.


The thought hadn't crossed my mind

I'll bring the lights down a bit then I think I'm at 9 hrs right now.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 03:43Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Where's LF?
I am right here, just happen to have had all day meetings and such fun things. So this is what happens when I leave you guys alone for two days, wars are declared, alliances between birthsigns are formed, poop is thrown around, and what not

Anyway, glad that you guys at least agree somewhat on what may be the cause. All of this does not explain the deaths though. I am with NowherMan6, sometimes fish just die. But not in a short interval with zero sign of sickness. That is mindboggeling. Unfixable stress from shipping?

Oh, I am an archer (sagittarius, or how do you spell that), so no funny business here, ok?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 10:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
While we are at it....
Aries (Mar 21- Apr 19) - is the cardinal/fire sign. Aries people need to keep physically busy. They accomplish many things simply because of their restless energy. They need to learn how to make constructive use of their energetic efforts. The typical Aries urge is to take on more than can be done reasonably well. Though others may find it difficult to keep pace with an Aries, they are attracted to their animation and spirited personality.
This seems to make sense right about now in my life...

At this point Matty I wouldn't make any large changes just to see what happens. Once you start making changes, who knows what the causes are.


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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 15:05Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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But not in a short interval with zero sign of sickness


I think it can happen. If these fish were relatively new stock, i.e. only at the store for a few days before being brought home, I can see them dying off in large numbers. Call it poor genetics of the fish, stress from relocation, whatever. I just think it happens sometimes.

Heck, look at tetra and his cardinals pre-UV. His would just turn up dead, as I remember. Some fish are just weaker and can't deal.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 16:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Nah, I never buy fish at the store when they just come in. The threadfins I remember were in the store for at least 2-3 months and the praecox were in at least one month. The furcatas were there a very long time, as I remember I didn't want to buy them as tiny as they were. They probably nearly doubled in size at the store before I bought them. For some reason rainbows aren't the most popular fish in the store, I guess.

These fish shipped fine and were never treated for anything at the store, they were fine there too. Then they spent a good monnth or more in my tank before they decided to start kicking off.

It's something about my tank conditions that these fish aren't pleased with. There's no doubt about that. Weak fish, maybe, but they sure looked good for a while.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 17:15Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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That changes everything then. It's interesting.

Maybe some species just need to be in an established tank to thrive? And maybe there's more to an established tank than 0ppm ammonia and 0ppm nitrite? I don't know

The second question, of course, is how a school of threadfin rainbows managed to stay unbought for 2-3 months


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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 17:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I dunno how they didn't get sold, it's not like they are that expensive at $5 each. A lot of our customer base doesn't really know what's up. "I want something colorful" "gee those, umm...they aren't...colorful? " I get frustrated with the customers at times, if you can't tell. Those are the costomers that usually end up buying dalmation mollies, perhaps one of the least colorful fish ever. I guess I shouldn't talk though, I can't even keep the rainbows alive.

Yep, maybe I should have stocked with something less sensitive, but that doesn't IMO explain why they are still dieing. The tank is what I'd call established now or even a month or more ago, and that's when they started dieing. I guess I'm just going to have to wait it out with waterchanges. If I end up with no fish left in a couple months, I'll know that I need to change everything.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 18:40Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
nellis
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Matt... don't stress put too much about them. I had problems keeping the furcatas and threadfins alive for a while too. I gave up on the furcatas and now i have threadfins and gertrudes, which are finally doing fine, despite occasional neglect.

I think dwarf rainbows just tend to be weak. They're little fish. Maybe there's something going on inside their tiny bodies that we simply just don't understand yet, despite our best efforts. I think eventually your stock will thin to a few strong guys that will never die. Things just have to sort themselves out.
Post InfoPosted 11-Nov-2006 06:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Thanks Nate, hopefully that's the case and they are just weak. I just get upset about it because I haven't had a problem with fish dieing in 5 or 6 yrs.



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Post InfoPosted 11-Nov-2006 17:58Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Well I got my new camera, and was giving it a whirl on the 50g tank. I haven't quite got it down yet, but I'm feeling confident I will after another couple sessions. Right now I only have the 16mb card that came with the camera, so I get like 10 pics at a time, so I haven't gone all out yet because of the back and forth to the computer thing. I'll be getting a bigger card for xmas. I can't help but like this camera 100X more than my old one already. So much easier to get good pics. The one thing I'm really having to re-learn is basically the right settings to get the right light and shutter speed and whatnot. Everything else is cake. So on to the pics I guess.

Here's the outcome of photo shoot 1 and 2:











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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 02:27Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
And here's another sampling:











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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 02:53Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Nice pictures Matt! I can't wait to see them after you have every thing figured out with the new camera.

The colors seem to look pretty realistic with this camera. Nothing is overly bright or too dark. Nice work my friend. BTW what did you get for a camera.

Your red plant is a type of ludwigia right? I really like how deep red that plant is.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 15:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Nice Matty, It's a shame you don't know how to use the camera

I really like the first pic and the one with the big pearl.
Your rainbow pics will give LF a run for the money.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 16:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Thanks Guys, I think LF's pics of the rainbows are better than mine, cause he caught them shining blue, I've yet been able to do that. I also have some pics of my salt tank. Go check those out cause nobody else will. I've been talking to myself over there for the last couple months. I'm having a little harder time taking clean, properly colored pics of stuff in that tank, so the pics aren't quite as good.

I ended up taking your advice tetratech, and I got an IS. I also kept with the smaller point and shoot style too. The camera is a canon A710 IS. It had all the features I wanted, IS, big 6x zoom, manual focus, large viewing screen, super macro, and all that other fun stuff. I found it going as cheap as the a630 and no shipping charge, so I couldn't pass it up.

I have to admit tetratech, the IS is a pretty cool feature, one that would be impossible to pass up now that I've experienced it first hand. Glad I listened to you that much.

And yes the red plant in my tank is the ludwigia glandulosa. It's gotta be one of my favorite red plants, not too difficult to grow either.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 18:20Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I have to admit tetratech, the IS is a pretty cool feature, one that would be impossible to pass up now that I've experienced it first hand. Glad I listened to you that much.

Glad you take my recovery room advice.

Anyway, great camera, I'm sure you'll have a good time with it. If you haven't upgraded your memory card you might want to consider this. http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-SDSDPH-1024-901-Ultra-Retail-Package/dp/B0009HTB0Y/sr=1-2/qid=1163782146/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/103-1830850-9147837?ie=UTF8&s=electronics

It rotates into a USB connection, so you don't have to worry about a card reader or attaching a cable. I've had one for about 4 months and it works great.

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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 18:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Glad you take my recovery room advice.


Hey! So far I've turned the lights down and haven't bought any fish, despite seeing some nice stuff at work every week.


Wow that's a pretty cool little gadget. I'll look into getting one of those. Right now I just plug the camera into the computer, which isn't too much of a hassle, but I'm sure that would be easier.



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