FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Very interesting thoughts on tank start up theories.

When I set up my 40G I really didn't know what I was doing.
~I first rinsed the Flourite (not well enough)
~Filled the tank
~Placed a brand new filter on it
~Used it as a fish storage as I was moving
~Planted it will Plants from my 20G
~Put the light from my 20G on it(15W)

I was pretty amazed how the plants seemed to take off from what I had in the 20G from just the different Sub.

It was probably at least a week or so before I added the 130W light.

I didn't get into real ferts for even longer and CO2 even longer after that.

I think I had some diatom algea but not for long and for the most part I haven't really had any major problems with aglae.

My worst was green spot but I have set up the lighting break for a couple of hours and I don't seem to be getting the GS any more.

Just my 2 cents. Now don't bug me until I finish my final paper!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

So when does the planting start That mountain is looking awfully bare...

---

Back in the saddle!

I hear ya on that. Next week sometime. The light should arrive monday or tuesday, then I need some time to get the salt light up and working before the old one can go on the fw tank. I'm thinking thursday or friday.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Well,

A short comment on the fish after plant topic -

With a cycled tank and healthy plants from the getgo, I see no reason why I should wait on a few fish.

I would go so far as to say that as long as there are healthy plants in sufficient numbers in the tank it doesn't matter what-so-ever if the tank is cycled or not if one wants to add "a few fish". In my experience (albeit a limited one, as you all know), cycling a planted tank is not required. Matty, if you are not going to add a large load right away then I would say that your cycling was not required, but I am sure you knew about this opinion.

Ok, different topic. I don't remember, but did you mention any driftwood?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Since you are going to force it out of me Ingo, I was planning on a medium sized school(maybe 6) of each the threadfin and preacox. Just a few, and maybe a couple bottom feeders or something. It's not a large number really to start with, but they are a bit more sensitive a fish than I am used to starting out with. So I'm a bit nervous about that. Then a few weeks down the line, maybe doubling that or adding another 3 or 4 of each.

I'm not sure if I am going to be getting some driftwood or not, LF. I had contemplated some in the back left corner. Not much, and not too high or exposed so as to take away from the structure on the right, but maybe I can find just enough to be a nice touch. I dunno. That's something I can add later in an LF style teardown or somesuch. At first I just plan on getting some plants growing healthy and some fish in there. I'm sure the left side of the tank will go through many different looks before I get one I like. I may just go with a "hotch potch" of grassy plants and buzz cut stems. I have been toying with the idea of cabomba or ambulia cut to about 3-4 inches in the back. I think it would look nice peeking up over the other grasses.

Meh*shrugs* just throwing out some ideas. Feel free to jump in with any you might have. I'm very open to suggestions right now on the plants and hardscape on the left side of the tank. Just don't jump in too late, you guys like to throw out ideas after I've already made up my mind.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

What if you do some branchy DW out of hill and around it?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I've thought about it, though I don't have a good source for branchy DW in the area. Seen any good internet sites selling the branchy stuff?

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

That's something I can add later in an LF style teardown or somesuch.

Yeah Baby

How about if you start off your plants with a set of fast growers that you then replace with more permanent plants afterwards. Like some Hygro and what not. Depending how green your hill gets, maybe having some reddish plants closest to it would create some nice contrast. The easiest of these should be some crypts. For the way left corner, I would pick something very green again, maybe the Ambulia. Pearl Grass would look nice as a middle area setup.

That's all plant advice for now, not feeling most confident these days in making good suggestions.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Aww you should feel confident in your planting ability, LF. Everybody gets busy, it happens. I like your advice, but I probably won't go with any crypts, at least at first. I want to try out a bunch of plants that I've never grown before, due to too little light or space, or whatever reason. I''ll probably play around with that for a while, at least until my glossofall looks nice and filled in, then I'll go for the real deal.

Weeeeell, I got my SW lights today and they are up and running, which means that I purchased a new bulb for the planted tank and now have the fixture ready to roll. Plants tomorrow night

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I got some plants in there last night after the 100% water change, and the lights are going to be on today . The water change only took about an hour with my homemade python, so I'm contemplating doing near daily 10-15% water changes for the next couple weeks. Anyway, I got some potomageton, stargrass, chain swords, microswords, baby's tears, cylon hygro, nesea, ambulia, peruvian ludwiggia, and I think there's one I'm forgetting about. I also plan on coming home with some fish tonight, 6-8 of each threadfins and preacox rainbows. I think I'm going to hold out on bottom feeders until we get some dwarf cory cats in.

pH is at 6.7 and KH is 5.5 for upper 20's in CO2. I turned that up a hair this morning. I dosed a bit of nitrate, PO4, and K2SO4 to get the ball rolling, and just a minute amount of traces. The ceylon hygro is established and grows so fast that It will probably take care of all that today while I'm gone.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

So did you go ahead and fully plant last night, or just put them in there to be arranged at a later time? If you planted full out, did you hardscape the left side of the tank at all?

---

Back in the saddle!

Where's the pictures my man?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Where's the pictures my man?

I second that notion. Can't wait to see how it looks with plants!


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

aright aright.







I planted them last night, but in no real order. This isn't an aquascape per se, but I will probably leave as is for a while. I got some fish today as you see, and they(preacox and featherfin rainbows) are currently floating and acclimating cup by cup. They are still freaked out and lacking in color, but I hope they will quickly recolor in a day or so. The plant I forgot about was didiplis in front of the ambulia.

And now I have something special to show you:



On the first day, not from a water change, but real pearling.

Sorry, I'm exhausted, so that's it.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hey matt, looks great, but what's that thing in the back that looks like the DeathStar?

Haha, just kidding. Can't wait to see it with the glosso.

Thanks Nate, Joe is going to order me in some for this week. I'll stop in whatever night he gets it in.

After that comment I'm afraid I might have to do something...

...alike this:

Hangin' in the stars suspended from the dark
Life is long and heavy like a shadow on a spark and it will blow
Massive killer orb hovering around
Looking for a spot to blast the good guys on the ground before they know
What hittem from above

Death star something so incredible
Something indesctructible
Massive and maniacle
Teeny weeny vulnerable hole

Somewhere deep inside shifty to the core
The tank is full and fueled by the
Dark side of the force
That makes it go to and fro killing
Black hearted ball roll the devil's dice
Destroy it one more time cause it's so good they built it twice
But now no more

-"Death Star" The Presidents of the United States of America

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Very nice Matty

And the death star is much smaller than I feared it might be. Not because it is not pretty but because I thought it may overwhelm the tank.

Nice pearl on the baby tears (right?) as well, and even better photograph.

So, if I count that right then you added 10 feathers and 8 preacox at once, thanks to your ammonia cure, right?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good job Matty

Hope you get the glosso soon. Can wait to see that, but it is getting easy now to imagine how nice it will be. /:'

Cheers
TW

Glad to see you packed it with plants from the Getgo. I know you did the ammonia thing, but I'm still wary of all those meaty fish going in at once, although the threadfins are quite small.

I could definitely invision the glosso falls looking really good. Looking forward to seeing more shots as the tank matures. I think the gayli could work nicely near the fall.




My Scapes

Good start Matty Lots of plants, nice.

---

Back in the saddle!

Thanks for the comments guys, I was pretty much wiped out last night so I didn't add much.

Not because it is not pretty but because I thought it may overwhelm the tank.

Admit it, you think it's uggs

you added 10 feathers and 8 preacox at once, thanks to your ammonia cure, right?

Yup, and I'm not really afraid of any problems. I'm sure it will be pretty easy. I'm going to do as many water changes as I can this week. I'll feed pretty light once a day. Next sunday I plan on adding more preacox. I can't add any more threadfins cause we have no more females. I only got to take 3, and that was all that was in the tank. I hope to even that out sometime. There's a pretty even mixture of female/males of the preacox at the store, so I can grab a few more of them.

Hope you get the glosso soon. Can wait to see that, but it is getting easy now to imagine how nice it will be.

Thanks Tankwatcher, I should be able to get the glosso tuesday. If I have time(read if labs don't start on the first week) I'll try to carefully plant some into the mesh of the death star so that it will spread faster. That's if I have time. I'll definitely put a lot of it in the tank, on the top of the falls, and the bottom. That section of the tank gets a TON of light, the falls sits right under the light, and it's only maybe 6-8 inches away from it. Might be a good scenario for the glosso, but I can see problems if I don't get things right.

Glad to see you packed it with plants from the Getgo.

You might want to kill me but I really couldn't justify less. All of it only cost $12. A lot of it was free cause I grew it and the stargrass was free cause it was going to get tossed it was in such bad shape. The fish were more though.

I know you did the ammonia thing, but I'm still wary of all those meaty fish going in at once, although the threadfins are quite small.

Oh ye of little faith. I don't think these guys will quite put out 1ppm of ammonia per day like I was adding to the tank towards the end just to keep some ammonia in there. I think after cycling the tank had something like 100-200ppm of nitrate cause I pulled as much water as I could out of the tank, and after I filled it up there was still 5-6 ppm of nitrate in the tank. The most that could have been left in the tank was a couple gallons of water. And what's with "meaty" fish. Rainbows are pretty slender in general. These are dinky fish. A molly is a meaty fish. The threadfins aren't even close to an inch yet, and the preacox barely made that mark.

But like I said I'll probably do some small water changes just because they are a little more sensitive than your average fish. There's some floating plant matter I need to collect anyways.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Alright you filled your tank for 12 bucks? Thats not bad at all. The plants you said that you grew. Did you grow them at home and then bring them to the store or grow them in the store and count them as you growing them?

Looks pretty nice. I can't way to see more!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I grew them in the store in my display tank.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Ahh I see! I need one of those. The boss has talked about it a little bit but I figure I will be gone before it turns into more than talk. I have kind of taken over the discus tank but we have to use it to sell fish (the discus) and plants that are too large for the smaller tanks. Someday.... just maybe..it might happen.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I love the way the plants are set now. It looks kind of like a jungle. Those rainbows look pretty stressed out, was it a long ride home? Anyway can't wait to see more pictures of how the tank develops.

-Vincent

Yeah wings, it's kinda nice in situations like these, but I've more(way more) than earned the price of these plants I've taken home by making a nice planted tank(hours of work on it) that people always point at and say "what's that plant?" or "what ferts do you use?" or "what kind of substrate, lights...etc?" That alone sells a lot. Plus we sell trimmings from that tank and make money that way. Display tanks are a wonderful tool to spread knowledge about as well. I may have to hand it over now that school is starting and I will only be at work once a week.

Budz- Thanks, I kinda like it as well, but it's not what I've envisioned for the tank, just what I threw together. I'll keep it this way until I feel things are established, keep a few plants I feel I can use for the final outcome, and sell or give the rest back to my LFS.

The rainbows were stressed, but no more than the thousands of other fish I've seen in bags. They've settled in pretty well now, but still have a little ways to go before I'd call them comfortable.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah that is the basics of our Discus tank too but its hide in the back of the store because discus are shy. The new tank if it ever comes about would be out front some where.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well I had one casualty with a threadfin, the rest are all accounted for and seem to be settling in well. Plants are growing(hygro has grown about 4 inches already) and pearling every evening. No algae to speak of yet - yet meaning I'm sure I'll get a little eventually.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Sorry to hear about the threadfin. Whenever you buy alot of fish, good chance something happens to at least one. Doesn't matter if you putting them in a 50 or a 500 gallon tank. Looking forward to seeing some glosso.



My Scapes

Yes Matty,

Sorry about the fish. I hope he/she didn't show any signs of illness and simply died of the stress of moving.

I have to say that I am most jealous of your pearling. Why does that not happen in my tanks? Oh - maybe it is the fast growers as now I remember to have had it in the very early stage of the 40G, but not to an extend as one can see in your picture.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sorry about your rainbow. It always sucks to loose a fish.

So right now you have the plants in the tank and a bunch of rainbows. Are there any aglae eaters on the way? Shrimp or Otos? I thought the game plan for planted tanks was aglae eaters then normal fish.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks for the condolences guys, I think one more might go though. It's not eating as the rest are and is hanging out by itself. No signs of disease, just looks bad, skinny and stressed. I expected a couple might go as tetratech said, and lets face it, they were the first group of fish to enter the tank, cycled or not. Threadfins are delicate and all that business.

So in response to wings: I don't have any immediate plans for algae eaters at all. If I absolutely need them I will get them. First, if there's no algae I'll never get them, cause I don't want to feed them. I'm not particularly fond of plecos in planted tanks(but in general I do like plecos, which is unfortunate), and I'm just not fond of ottos and the way they always die on me. That leaves shrimp I guess, which from what I understand, won't do well with dwarf cichlids, and I plan on a couple of those. So if I have an algae problem, I will probably try to manage it myself first.

So far I have completely disregarded the "game plan" for planted tanks. I fishless cycled, I added a non-natural structure, I added non-algae eating fish right away, the lights are on full blast for 12 hrs a day....

In other news, I just recieved my glosso. Joe is a good guy. I'll be spending some time today planting the six bunches of it that I got. If you saw where the stargrass was, I'll be removing that, or maybe moving it if I can find space, and putting a lot of the glosso there, then some on the top, and trying to plant some into the mesh, which is pobably not going to work out.

Here's a pic from I think the day before yesterday:

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

Your tank is looking pretty nice. I think as long as the glosso will cover the PVC you will have a very sweet looking hill in your tank too.

The plant in the middle is Pearl Grass right? I need to get my hands on that stuff! Looks like fun!



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I'm pretty sure baby's tears is hemianthus micranthemoides. Whatever pearl grass is, I'm not sure.

I just had the HARDEST time EVER changing the water on this tank. The hose blew up 3 times(hose came off barbed connecter). *shakes fish at hose*. I have 2 large puddles on the rugs. I think I need something to drink.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Pearl Grass, Pearl Weed, Baby Tears.......all the same thing I think.

Aren't common names cool!

Sorry to hear about your water change troubles. Don't drink too much that stuff isn't good for you!



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

All's I got is a couple pictures.

Death Star:


And the boring ol' full frontal:

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Wow Matty that's starting to look really good. Funny you took out (plant wise) exactly what I would have taken out to make room for the glosso. It almost reminds me of a valley in yosemite or something. Especially with the "falls"

My Scapes

Looking very nice Matty,

Did you have any issues planting the Glosso?

The only thing that surprises me a little is the very limited number of plugs that you added to the sides of the death star. I would assume that planting a lot of them on the lower parts of it would have generated a faster full cover than trying to populated it from the top.

Otos dying: I don't know why, but I have been very lucky that my latest purchase of Otos for the 40G (a few months back now) turned out excellent. Although I neglected all rules of Oto purchase (larger, for a while in store) I haven't lost even one out of 6. Maybe you want to try them again.

Baby Tears: Well - Pearl Grass is not Baby Tears. Pearl Grass's]http://www.tropica.dk/productcard_1.asp?id=048A[/link] name is Hemianthus micranthemoides, and it has been previously called Micranthemum micranthemoides. In the family of Micranthemum is another plant, [link=Baby Tears, named Micranthemum umbrosum. I just thought I share that with you guys.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Very nice but I'm too impatient. I want to see it all covered in.

Cheers
TW

Baby Tears: Well - Pearl Grass is not Baby Tears. Pearl Grass's name is Hemianthus micranthemoides, and it has been previously called Micranthemum micranthemoides. In the family of Micranthemum is another plant, Baby Tears, named Micranthemum umbrosum. I just thought I share that with you guys.

Shoot! Which one do I really want then?

Matty,

Looks good! Now make it fill in faster!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings - you want Pearl Grass

It grows more compact, has less space between nodes, and at least in my tank is indestructable (so far), and I managed to kill quite a few of my plants. Overall, it is the prettier choice, IMHO.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks little fish!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I like it too

But we'll see how long YOU like it once that cabomba starts growing 3 inches per day and you have to trim it twice a week

I was also hoping you'd pain-stakingly plant each glosso plant through the mesh so that it would spread faster

---

Back in the saddle!

Well based on those two pictures, mine is definitely pearl grass. The common name it was given at the store was baby's tears, but it's definitely h. micranthemoides. The leaves aren't as large and round as the pic of h. umbrosum. They are tiny and shaped like a spearhead, for lack of better descriptive word.

Yeah, the stargrass had to go, it was the obvious choice. it was never going to stay there, and it wasn't growing very well. It was very unhealthy when I got it. I did keep a couple small sprigs of it though, tucked in a little corner, maybe it will pick up a bit.

But we'll see how long YOU like it once that cabomba starts growing 3 inches per day and you have to trim it twice a week

Ummm, yeah. It's already growing over an inch per day. But I don't mind that too much. I let things overgrow quite often, then trim back to how I like it. It may or may not stay, mostly I want a grassy feild over there, but I might keep those, just pretty low cut as "shrubs".

I was also hoping you'd pain-stakingly plant each glosso plant through the mesh so that it would spread faster

I was hoping that too. I was beat though, so I didn't. I just jammed it in between the rocks in a few places. And I do think I put as much on the top as on the bottom. I wanted to plant up the top though, cause there is a TON of light blasting on it, that for the most part was going unused. IMO that would have probably led to algae.

*uses the dark side of the force granted by the death star to grow glosso faaster*

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

But it would be evil Glosso, it may even start eating your fishies.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So that whole "Deathstar" is filled with gravel so the glosso can root anyway?

My Scapes

But it would be evil Glosso, it may even start eating your fishies.

If you want plants to eat stuff then you should try this cool looking stuff!

http://www.tropica.com/default.asp Well if the link doesn't work its right on the front page....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Yep tetratech, the deathstar is filled with evil gravel I guess. And I wouldn't have my glosso any other way. Evil. Like the fruit of the devil.

In case you didn't get that, it was a mike myers quote from "So I married an axe murderer".

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

the death star is looking good but.......once the glosso is growing, it will look like a hippy death star.

-Vincent

In case you didn't get that, it was a mike myers quote from "So I married an axe murderer

Thanks never saw the flick.

Deathstars and Monkey Skulls no wonder Bensaf isn't around much anymore. We scared him off

My Scapes

Yeah, where the heck is Bensaf?

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matt;
Looking good! Smother that death star with the light side of the force and it will be limping back to home depot with it's giant laser beam tucked in between its legs.

That whole process could have been a lot easier (and maybe even cheaper) if you had simply bought a few sheets of stainless steel mesh and bent them to shape.

So today was my last day at the Fish Hole, moving to Cambridge on Saturday. I'll keep in touch here though. Great working with you dude.

-Nate

Well we knew somebody with a degree(or close) wasn't going to stay at the fish place very long. It was good working with you too, good luck in Cambridge, and with the move. Let me know how it goes.

As for the steel mesh....if I woulda had a source that wasn't internet based and I could see it in person I might have thought it was a good idea from the getgo. If the glosso never covers over the pvc, I might be asking you where you got your stuff.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

I have a question with regards to your background. Is it a simple white cardboard sheet or what did you do there? I like the idea of a removable background on my 20QT as it gives me the option to play with cheap sheets of varying colors.

Ingo

OH - only now do I see that there is no background, anyway, use a sheet

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good point about the background. I agree different colors are cool to play with, especially for pic taking. I think a black background will make the plants pop out better. Black isn't the greatest when you have the dark DW for obvious reasons. Unfortnuately on my 72g I really can't change the back, so lighter wood is probably in my future. I'm thinking about ordering some stuff from Manzanita.

My Scapes

Yeah, I keep forgetting to buy some background. Actually, I thought this would have been brought up a long time ago. LF is not paying attention like usual. It took him 8 pages to figure it out.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty, don't blame LF for forgetting, he's getting old like me. Speaking of forgetting is this your first tank with eco? Good stuff?

My Scapes

I LORVE (with an r, it's special) eco complete, purely from a planting perspective. Physically planting plants, I mean. They actually stay in the eco complete. I had 2 stems float up and 1 chain sword. That's it. When I planted them again, they stayed down. As far as how the growth is concerned, time will tell.

EDIT: and oh yeah, it's my first eco complete tank.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

LF is not paying attention like usual

That is because I am focussing on your Glosso mountain, not because I am getting old

On the other hand, I didn't recognize tetratech's hairnet in his side shot either, maybe I am getting old.

Eco: yup, the planting is soooooo much easier, but from a growth perspective I find it no different than my gravel with laterite, except that the much smaller grain size may help carpet plants to spread.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well it would appear that I have a bit of calcium deficiency. Something I've not encountered before. I had to look up why new plant growth gets distorted and crinkled leaves. Luckily I have some CaCl on hand from greg watson(caution:don't actually mix this stuff in your hand while diluting into the tank, it gets HOT, ouch. This will be the first time I open the bag that I ordered two years ago. I'm just going to raise the concentration a bit because I know that Ca has effects on pH and other measurements as well. I'm still a bit confused as I've been doing very frequent water changes on the tank, and I know I have pretty hard water, meaning there should be plenty of Ca/Mg. The only plants I'm seeing this in is nesea, and slightly in the hygro.

Here's a pic:


The only other odd thing I read somebody post is that too much light will stunt/distort new growth if there's not enough CO2. So I checked the pH and it looked ok(before I added Ca, but I upped the CO2 a bit anyways.

Also a bit of algae is coming along. Not so much of the diatoms, but mostly the nasty green type stuff. For the most part it's on the rocks and death star. Not so much the plants. I've finally bought a timer and turned the second light off for most of the day and reduced the first timer a bit.

Algae:


On the fish front, I still have 17 healthy rainbows. The little threadfin guy(one I thought wasn't going to make it) is doing much better after being fattened up with BBS and cyclopeez. Thinking about it, those foods might also be contributing to the algae, as they are very difficult to feed so the fish can eat it all.

One plant seeming to take well to the tank:

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah Matty,

Keep that algae in check. What is your fert schedule?
Reducing the light for sure will help. Can it be that the stunted growth is still a carryover from the store? I mean, what if the plant was grown healthy and the placed in the store under not-so-good conditions? Wouldn't it take a while to show symptons of that? If you always had good Ca in your tank, what should have changed? If your tap water hasn't become really soft all of a sudden then I would not know why you would have to add Ca.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I would be really surprised if it's a CA problem, especially since you said your doing alot of WC and plus the Eco has a pretty good amount of CA in it. As LF said, are you doing the regular EI dosing?

Thinking about it, those foods might also be contributing to the algae, as they are very difficult to feed so the fish can eat it all.

Now this is an issue IMO. Your running high light, it's got alot fish in it and your running a smorg.

Small moves!





My Scapes

Looks like regular green algae, otos will eat it. It wouldn't hurt to have a bunch in there anyway, along with some shrimp.

And I agree with tetra on this, do not underestimate the impact over feeding can have on the WQ. Things can go downhill in a hurry methinks...

---

Back in the saddle!

Matty,

Maybe all you have to do to correct the issue is to change the flow rate of your filter to increase the contact time



Sorry everybody, but I could not resist,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Maybe all you have to do to correct the issue is to change the flow rate of your filter to increase the contact time

Yeah matty and tetra, what are your feelings on this? I don't think either of you have commented on this idea...

---

Back in the saddle!

Ahhh Ingo & NowherMan6, you are a pair of very cheeky monkeys

Cheers
TW

Maybe all you have to do to correct the issue is to change the flow rate of your filter to increase the contact time

Yeah matty and tetra, what are your feelings on this? I don't think either of you have commented on this idea...

My Scapes

Well I did say at the beginning that I'm underfiltering the tank. It may be that I need to upgrade at some point. More than that I'll not comment about. I didn't mean to stir up so much commotion about the foods. I'm not feeding a lot of it, but it's very hard for them to eat every last bit is what I was trying to convey. In general, they are only getting one feeding per day, still a small amount of food. The featherfins just demand small food that is hard to make sure they eat it all. They can't take down adult brine shrimp or mysis shrimp, so they get small foods that are easily lost into the tank. I do try to only feed a small bit at a time, but I can't tell if they ate it all. I've always had that opinion about those small foods. I'm sure the 3-4x weekly 1/3 water change should take care of it for the most part.

What is your fert schedule?

I add ferts after water changes which have been about every other day. I'm adding about 3ppm of NO3, .5ppm PO4, and 2ppm K2SO4. Just a couple mL of micros. These I've been upping very slowly. I started with no nitrate since there was a bunch in the tank for a while and a smidge of PO4(less than .25ppm) and 1ppm of potassium. No micros at first either.

Can it be that the stunted growth is still a carryover from the store? I mean, what if the plant was grown healthy and the placed in the store under not-so-good conditions? Wouldn't it take a while to show symptons of that? If you always had good Ca in your tank, what should have changed?

The nesea was in excellent condition when I got it, but it does look a bit goofy, like it was emersed grown, but the bottom leaves haven't changed or dropped off. In all honesty I'm not exactly sure what this plant is supposed to look like in good conditions, so maybe it's just an oddity about the plant. It was just something I decided to try out. For a while it was turning pink before the ambulia started to shade it out, but the ambula's been trimmed back, and has good light again.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Honestly, it's still quite early to know how everything is going to grow in, in terms of what's previously been grown emmersed etc. It's only been what, two weeks since you planted it? The plants are still adjusting (except the ambulia - there's a reason it's on the noxious weed list ) After a month or so you'll see all the die-back take place. Still quite early yet.

---

Back in the saddle!

Nessea is a difficult finicky plant, anything out of whack and it will stunt.

This stunting issue is quite common and no ones got a fix on it yet. I've had the exact same issue on exactly the same plant.

It's not a CA deficiency, especially if the Gh is 3 or above. But it may very well be something preventing the plant utilising the available CA. This is why certain species show it and other go on happy as Larry. Some species are just more sensitive to this phenomenon.

In my own experience adding more CA did squat.

There are a number of possibilities that can cause this IME. The simplest way to tackle it is to eliminate all possibilties at the same time. If you try to narrow it down to one cause and try to fix that you WILL try yourself nuts and you WILL have a crappy looking tank for months.

1.High light and nutrient levels but with poor Co2.
2.High KH. A lot of plant just don't like KH, for those plants we think of as sensitive or difficult it is almost always the KH that's causing the problem.
3.Mg levels. Generally a GH of 3 or more will supply sufficient CA and Mg. But do you know how much of your GH is CA and how much Mg. While having excess Mg is very unusual having deficient Mg even with good GH is possible. Add a few ppm of MgSo4 with each water change.
4. Pay attention - this one may shock you. High No3 will cause plants all sorts of problems. And by high I mean even 30ppm will cause problems for some plants.

In my own case I was pretty sure that the high no3 was an issue. Doing a lot of water changes and keeping a more steady hand when adding the KNO3 wiped the problem out for me.
In your own case Co2 would be a major suspicion as you are seeing green algae even with Po4 additions..

As I said earlier if you try to isolate the problem you will drive yourself around the bend - better to take a blanket approach that covers all the above.

Try this:
Make sure you are doing 50% WC's, a lot of people are doing less then they think (I was). Add about 5ppm of MgSo4 at WC. Try to keep the KH at 3-5 degrees. Don't overdo the KNO3 , especially if you have a lot of fish. Keep the Co2 high.
Do all of this regularly - stability is vital.Give it a month - most plants will stunt at the drop of the hat but they take a while to recover and get going again.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Haha, hey guys I found Bensaf!

That sounds great, thanks for the help Bensaf. I'll start with the CO2 which I'm in the process of raising. I would think there's plenty of PO4, but I'll pick that up a smidge too. My KNO3 dosing was on the light side to begin with, and I'm sure I've gotten rid of most of what was there to begin with, so I'll keep that about the same. We all know I like to micromanage my macros, so NO3 is usually lean. My KH I think was 6.5, A little high, so maybe I'll use some RO/DI when I do water changes. Gh I know is high around here too, but I haven't tested for that in quite some time, so technically I don't know. That leaves MgSO4. I'll have to visit greg watson, cause I don't have that on hand.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

That leaves MgSO4. I'll have to visit greg watson, cause I don't have that on hand.

Epsom salts from the pharmacy will do just as well.

Your numbers for KH and Gh are almost the same as mine , maybe something about that number plants don't like.

Keep us updated on the progress. This problem has hit a lot of people and is the subject of much debate as to the causes.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Haha, hey guys I found Bensaf!

Boy Matty, you must be special for Bensaf to grace your thread like that.

My Scapes

Boy Matty, you must be special for Bensaf to grace your thread like that.

I guess so...I think I just hit on a subject he likes. Well the order to greg is already in, I didn't waste any time. I needed a few other things as well, so no biggie. The nesea will have to wait a couple days for the Mg.

This morning I noticed that my preacox rainbows are either fighting or mating. Unfortunately, my bets are on fighting cause I think it's two males going at each other spinning aroung like crazy and flashing all over the tank. LF, yu ever see this with yours? I'm thinking I might need some more females or something.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

When I had a nice sized group of rainbows(9) I don't think I ever saw them fighting. I would say they are establishing a pecking order if anything. Thus finding out who is the prettiest of them all. Though you might have some mean little rainbows. Just my $0.02

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

What kind of rainbows did you have wings? My featherfins arean't aggressive, and the preacox aren't aggressive towards them, just themselves. I guess you are right, they must just be establishing some order. They only seem to do it in the morning light, there's just enough to see into the tank, but not tnough to make out male/female, and I've heard that they tend to breed during that time. It would be nice if that were the case, but I've seen nothing in the way of eggs, and I think they are too young anyhow. I sure have been taking good care of them with all the water changes. I wouldn't blame them for wanting to spawn, except for I haven't really been trying to bulk them up. Just enough for them to get by for awhile.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I guess you are right, they must just be establishing some order. They only seem to do it in the morning light,

My guess is that they are two of the males. I don't think Dwarf Rainbows are the smartest fishies in the world, and I would not be too surprised if they forgot overnight who was the boss the previous day

How do they fight? Is there any biting? Mine fight all the time, but it is only a show fight where the only contact may be a slap with the caudal fin.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Matty,

I had the same dwarf blues that you and little fish have. I didn't have good luck with mine though. I had a lot of random deaths without any signs of illness. The same thing happened to the ones at work. Must have been a bad batch.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

To that topic,

I had overall 9 of them, 3 females and 3 males, and after the 3 females died within maybe 2 months I got an additional 3 males. Never lost one male though and losing all of my females makes me believe that they are way more sensitive.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

How do they fight? Is there any biting?

They at least try to bite. I haven't seen them actually connect though. At one point they squared off like cichlids do and almost locked mouths. At the last second they swerved and started the circle dance. I was really surprised to see them do that. Most of the time it's chasing that leads to the circle dance.

About the sensitivity, the praecox definitely seem the stronger of the two types of rainbows. The weak little featherfin has disappeared now. I'm down to 8 of each, I think. All 16 look pretty good though. I'd be surprised if anything happened to any of them.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Well I got my clean up crew today. I purchased 4 oto cats and a synodontis petricola cat. The petricola is about half an inch right now, so it will be a while before he gets big, especially since I won't be feeding him a whole lot. As soon as I feel he's a bit too big for the tank(say, larger than my rainbows ~ 2" I'll take him back to the lfs. He's really just a temp bottom feeder to take care of the little bits of left over stuffs.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Oh, the greg watson stuff already came in. That guy is good. I wouldn't have been able to get out to the pharmacy and back that fast. Dang.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

I would guess if they square off in cichlid style it means that these two are really close in strength and so forth and as such none of them feels like taking flight first before being hunted down and confronted to pay his respect.

Yeah, Greg Watson is fast. So what did you order again?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The main reason for the order was MgSO4. Bensaf figures I was lacking there. I was nearly out of KNO3, so I got some of that, and decided to try out the CSM+B as well. I really mix and match with the micros. I have kents, julian sprung's, and now the plantex stuff. I'll probably buy some of the flourish as well. I don't feel like any one is the best, and they all have differents formula's and benefits.

Well I'm off to Zoar Valley for the day to check out an old growth forest for class. Should be a good time. See ya'lls later.

No comments on the fishies?

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

No comments on the fishies?

I thought I was talking about your fishes, or did you think I meant you?

Anyway, CSM+B - that is plantex, right? Plus Iron, right? I found that that stuff is really hard to dissolve and I didn't like it all that much.

So you are mixing and matching micros, hm? How come that I don't see any TMG in your listing there

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I meant the otos and synodontis petricola. I should have specified new fish. I need to get some pics, but the perticola cat disappeared.

Anyway, CSM+B - that is plantex, right? Plus Iron, right? I found that that stuff is really hard to dissolve and I didn't like it all that much.

What did you use for water to dissolve it? Might do better in ro/di, than it would in tap.

So you are mixing and matching micros, hm? How come that I don't see any TMG in your listing there

I wish I had some non-internet access to it. I thought that stuff wasn't going to be around any more? I've heard it was pretty good, though. I'd like to try some, but I doubt it would be worth it for me to search up and down for it and then pay for the shipping and everything.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I meant the otos and synodontis petricola.

Otos are always a good fish to have. I sell tons of them at work for small tanked peoples. I guess I could start selling some Pitbull Plecos too.....

Synodontis petricola are really sweet catfish. I have yet to have one of the little slow growers but I had a feather fin for a while. I just like synodontis in general. Good buys!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ah, the Otos - yeah, always a good call. Where the first fish in my 40 and 125
And the other cat I don't know, what is its common name? And dissapeared means he is hiding?

Might do better in ro/di, than it would in tap.

- Yeah, I will go out and buy RO water and then stirr for hours just to add micros to the tank.

wish I had some non-internet access to it. I thought that stuff wasn't going to be around any more?

Occasionally, reading through my logs helps . I stated last week that Big Al's has it for the time being, as I was informed that they got some into the online catalog from their local store. I bought a 5L bottle right away.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And dissapeared means he is hiding?

Well, yeah I hope he's hiding. There's a ton of ground cover in my tank, and plenty of hiding spots around the death star. Not to mention the cat is as big as my thumbnail. I don't think I'll see it very often, unfortunately. They are pretty sweet as wings said. I may just have to get another one. We have them listed in the store as syn. petricola, and I've never heard them called by a common name. Somebody else might be able to chime in here.

Yeah, I will go out and buy RO water and then stirr for hours just to add micros to the tank.

Well I didn't mean to suggest that you do it, I meant that I was going to try and see if it dissolves well that way. I hope it does at least.

Occasionally, reading through my logs helps

Easier said than done. I did read that, but I don't intend to buy it online. I only bought the plantex csm+b because greg watson had it and I was ordering from there anyways, and I thought it was silly to pay $8 in shipping for $8 worth of product, so I decided to try it out. Maybe trying to dissolve it at higher temps or in lesser concentrations would help too.

About the tank in general - Plants seem to be growing well, even if there is some algae on the old growth and hardscape. I did expect a little, so as long as this is a phase, I'll be ok. Since I've turned the lights down, I've noticed that the ground cover plants seem to be reaching a bit for the light, and the abulia is getting pretty leggy. The nesea, though crinkly, is growing pretty darn quick, and the chain swords are starting to multiply.
The remaining 16 rainbows are active, even if the praecox are a little over-active in the morning, and they are eating and look to be doing well overall. There hasn't been any noticeable marks on the male praecox from the morning romps, so I think they will settle in eventually, or just keep it up and not get hurt. Maybe as they get a bit older they will turn their attentions to the ladies? The otos are all visible, but seem a bit skittish, which is generally my experience with them before they end up kicking it a couple weeks down the road. I never have a good outlook on those guys. They are my problem fish, like other people have problems with cardinals or whatever.
I'll probably get some pics of the tank this week sometime. My(and my camera's) batteries need some charging, and the tank and plants are in need of a bit of work before I let the public see it.

I think I'm a bit long winded today must have been all the fresh air.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

So the micro that you bought is not exactly the one I used to use. Yours is the plain CSM+B while mine was something like "CSM+B plus extra Iron". Interestingly, I cannot find this one anymore on Greg's website. I wonder if I was not the only one who got issues with it.

But in all fairness, I have to say that after months of use it turned out that I most likely heavily overdosed the tank with this stuff as I initially worked of a pretty wrong assesment on how much to use (got some not so good advice).

I intitally had issues with Otos as well, from the (I think) 13 that I bought for the 125 only 6 made it, but they are still around, as much as I can tell. Only recently have I gotten lucky to having not lost even one in the 40G.

I guess your light is then to weak for some of your plants right now. Nevertheless, I assume that keeping it down will help avoiding larger issues until your plant mass is sufficient enough to handle more light. In case it helps, I started the 40G with only 8 hours of light per day and increased weekly by 30min until I had 10 hours, now I am up to 11, I think.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

TFH (Sept) Catfish Corner. From the caption on page 61. "The cuckoo catfish Synodontis petricola"

The profiles we have on this site call the Synodontis multipunctatus also as cuckoo catfish. We don't have a profile for the petricola.
http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/625.htm

multipunctatus is called the cuckoo catfish here too!
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=95

petricola here is called False cuckoo catfish
http://www.planetcatfish.com/catelog/species.php?species_id=103

Well that was fun to look up. I guess I should get on with my homework!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

My(and my camera's) batteries need some charging, and the tank and plants are in need of a bit of work before I let the public see it.

Booo, cop out! Just kidding, I used to do the same thing all the time.

Otos are a good start, but I would seriously consider adding ammanos, and a lot of them. They're amazingly effective algae eaters. Anything remotely stringy they'll eat, things that otos won't.

---

Back in the saddle!

Good links there wings.

I heard the amano shrimp are also good dwarf cichlid food, please correct me if I'm wrong, so I was going to avoid those, because I'm going to eventually get a pair of something, probably some apisto.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Well I know my kribs like CRS. The one Amano is still in the tank from when I added a batch of CRS but they didn't get all the CRS either. I wouldn't risk it.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I heard the amano shrimp are also good dwarf cichlid food, please correct me if I'm wrong, so I was going to avoid those, because I'm going to eventually get a pair of something, probably some apisto.

Well I think it probably depends on the situation. I have 7 or 8 Amanos in my big tank with the rainbow, bolivan and blue rams and they don't even look at them.

I would as Nowher suggested put the shrimp in now, let them grow alittle and get situated and then go ahead and had your rams. A few of my amanos are quite large, probably about the size of a full grown rummynose.

My Scapes

I never even saw my yo-yos go after them while they were in the 46 gallon. The gourami hunted them mercilessly though, like cats stalking prey. In a heavily planted tank where they've been assimilated they should be fine with whatever in there.

---

Back in the saddle!

In a heavily planted tank where they've been assimilated they should be fine with whatever in there.

But you might never see them. Now that my kribs are in a different tank I see my shrimp all the time.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

But you might never see them. Now that my kribs are in a different tank I see my shrimp all the time.

Depends on the setup. the amanos are always on top of my dW pieces by late afternoon or moving around the riccia looking for scraps.

My Scapes

plus, although they're nice to look at, they're more functional than anything else. they'll do the job and stay in the shadows. No biggie

---

Back in the saddle!

Hmm...I may try some out since it sounds like everybody agrees that if they get in there first and get a descent size, they will probably do fine.

Are CRS the same? or will they get demolished since they are smaller generally?

Might just go with a bunch of shrimp instead of apistos. Amanos, CRS, and wood shrimp are pretty common at my lfs. We even get others in occasionally. I've heard CRS breed pretty easily. That would just be downright cool if they could avoid all the fish, or even free food is nice.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Are CRS the same? or will they get demolished since they are smaller generally?

That pretty much sums it up. I had a few crs in my apisto agassizi and I went away for 3 days and when I came home I found pieces of red all over the tank. It was pretty gruesome.

My Scapes

hmm...figures. Decisions decisions....

There was one thing I forgot to mention. I mixed up 1tbsp CSM+B in 500ml room temp RO/DI water as per greg watsons recommendations(2tbsp per L) and gave it a shake and it mixed perfectly. I also added a bit extra iron chelate and that went in smoothly as well. I only added 1/2tsp because I was unsure of the quantities that I should be adding there. I don't think I even added anything significant, so if anybody knows if I should add more please tell.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Might just go with a bunch of shrimp instead of apistos

- What, give up on Apistos for some algae munchers? Never

gave it a shake and it mixed perfectly

- So what was I doing wrong then? I filled a liter bottle with tank water, added my Plantex Plus Iron, and shook it like crazy and it didn't dissolve completely

Matty, as to how much to use, I don't remember. I know it is buried somewhere in my thread, there is some entry where I discovered that I way overused this stuff. And I am pretty sure that if you had used the whole tsp in one session that this would have been too much as well. I think even 1/2tsp is too much.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So what was I doing wrong then?

Well things just dissolve into pure water better because there is literally more "room" for it to dissolve into. Also, if you used more than 2tbsp, that much might just not be able to dissolve into the 1L water. There is only so much capacity for things to dissolve.

The 1/2 tsp I mixed into the 500mL with the plantex, you think this is too much? I'll be doing a couple mL of that every day or every other day along with a mL of each of the others.

About the shrimp - I'm still just throwing ideas out there, do'nt get upset.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I like those wood shrimps. They just stand there and sift the water like a filter right? They'll almost like minature fine pad filters.

My Scapes

Wood shrimps get pretty big, don't they? And, don't they need a rather high level of floating organics to survive, similar to these animals of the dark side ()?

Ah Matty, so you don't add the 1/2 tsp, aka 500mL, at once to the tank, but just some of the solution. I used to add about 1 to 1.5 tsp every other day, and that was way too much.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

They just stand there and sift the water like a filter right?

Yeah, but I've seen them dig around in the gravel as well, so I don't think that fine particles HAVE to be in the water column for them to survive. If they did they would probably have high mortality rates in captivity, like flame scallops of the dark side.

And yes they do get to be a few inches long, but they aren't really destructive IMO. They are still pretty dainty animals.

Ah Matty, so you don't add the 1/2 tsp, aka 500mL, at once to the tank, but just some of the solution. I used to add about 1 to 1.5 tsp every other day, and that was way too much.

Yeah I would think that would have been too much. So, I have the 500mL of water in a bottle with 1 tablespoon of csm+b and 1/2 teaspoon of the iron chelate. I was hoping if someone could tell me if that sounded like a good mix to dose a couple mL out of daily, or if I need to increase/decrease that. If not I'll find out eventually. If anything I think I'll need to increase it. I've read of people using as much as 2mL per 10g per day of a solution twice as strong as mine. I think that would be on the order of how much LF was dosing, maybe more.

Oh one more thing, I did a WC last night and dosed the Mg as per bensaf's instructions and topped the last inch or so with RO/DI water. Hopefully that will help the crinkly nesea. I had my RO/DI unit working all day(12hrs or so) yesterday to fill up my top off bucketfor sw, the fw tank and the water change bucket for the sw. Glad I'm not paying the water bill in this apartment.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Oh one more thing, I did a WC last night and dosed the Mg as per bensaf's instructions and topped the last inch or so with RO/DI water. Hopefully that will help the crinkly nesea.

If it's MG, wouldn't the plant make use of the mg in the Eco.



Attached Image:


My Scapes

I like those wood shrimps. They just stand there and sift the water like a filter right? They'll almost like minature fine pad filters.

I think you should have pulled an Amano when you had your Green Water and used the Wood shrimp!

I have seen them at a Petco back home but nowhere else yet. I don't know if we could get them into my store or not.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

If it's MG, wouldn't the plant make use of the mg in the Eco.

Well that could be said for just about all micros. So what is causing the crinkled leaves? I have no idea. Hopefully it's just new tank syndrome and it will shape up. Either that or I'm going to find something to replace it, cause it's kinda funky lookin'.

As for the wood shrimp taking on the green water, you would need a whole lotta shrimp for that I imagine.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

As for the wood shrimp taking on the green water, you would need a whole lotta shrimp for that I imagine.

Thats why I said to used the Amano method.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I guess I don't follow....what's the Amano method? A whole lotta shrimp?

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

If it's MG, wouldn't the plant make use of the mg in the Eco.

Nessea and Ammania ( 2 plants that are almost identical in looks and the 2 plants most often suffering from this phenonomen) are plants that produce very little in the way of roots. I had Ammania for over a year that barely produced a root. I would assume from that they find it difficult to extract any nutrient from the substrate.

There's a hundred and one theories as to why these plants stunt while other plants are going gangbusters.

Mg is the one nutrient that gives most people a postitive result. Although I have to say adding it didn't do much for me.

But my own situation was different. It was a much older tank with an awful lot of old mulm built up. Really cleaning it up and keeping it that way worked wonders. Not just at stopping the stunting but the other plants picked up too pearling was much more intense.

Dirty or old tank syndrome is definately an issue in planted tanks. At least once a year you should be looking at giving the tank a real good going over. By that I mean uprooting plants, removing rocks and wood and vaccing good etc.

I know that goes against the stability mantra but it's a balance. There comes a point where the level of organics in a tank will cause more harm then a disruption in the stability. It also gives an opportunity to do that big re-scape you'd been planning (LF ) and keep things fresh looking.

In a tank like mine where 85% of the sub is covered with wood rocks and plants that don't get moved/uprooted on a regular basis (ferns, anubias, mosses) it's even more important as there is a huge build up of detritus trapped in there.

But this is a new tank.........

I did find the plant would grow nice for a while but then when it got tall and closer to the light the stunting would start. Maybe a high light / not enough Co2 thing.

Check other plants closely, they may not be so severe but maybe showing something small that could be missed at first glance.
If you can't solve the issue maybe better just to dump the Nessea , it will drive you batty. Shame though it's a really really nice plant when it's looking good.

Could be worse, could be Nessea 'Red' a plant which I've never known anyone to grow successfully. Me included.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

it will drive you batty.

what's the Amano method? A whole lotta shrimp?

Right on!











A Batty, Matty! I don't think we need that!


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

A very batty matty. Well since the nesea was the last topic of conversation, I'll start with that. Looks like thenesea was very much in an emersed growth form. Here's what it looks like now:


The leaves are much smaller, the stem is now green, and thinner as well. Quite a change. Also, count the otos, I know LF likes this game.

Don't laugh too hard, but my cam isn't great, and I wanted to show you the colors on my featherfins. So here's a picture that shows its color very well(don't mind the blurryness). I really did take quite a few pics, none came out better than this:


A new addition to the tank, these are entirely functional in purpose, the fish have definitely become more comfortable since I put them in:

Plus it seems they enjoy snacking on the roots, you can tell

Here's a pic of the rainbows hangin' out under the water lettuce:


Stargrass makin' a comeback, about 4 tiny stems of it:


And finally a shot from the side and a shot from the front:




The algae has taken a severe setback. I think it's about done for, between the plants growing like crazy and the otos.

I still haven't seen my syno cat since I let him go. I'm starting to fear the worst, but I'm still not sure. He could be hiding anywhere, he's so tiny. I might get another this weekend.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

So comments are welcome, and expected. The one thing I'm not too fond of is that all the plants are the same color green. The baby's tears and the glosso are too similar in shape and color. I might try to exchange the baby's tears for the chain swords, eliminate the hygro, put the stargrass in where the ambulia is(once it grows a bit), keep the ludwiggia a bit lower(at least when it comes time to take pics), and find a way to work some blyxa and maybe some moss in there for some different shades of green. I'd also like a couple more rocks I think.

Oh yeah, and add a background

Lots to change on this tank. Lemme know what you think.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Hey I see floating plants
Actually I give you alot of credit for putting those in. It's definitely more natural to have plants moving about the top.

As you pointed out the plants look really healthy and I like the look of the tank. It's got real potential once the glosso falls fill in.

From a scaping point I like the overall tank, but I'm not crazy about the left back and right front. The left back competes with the glosso falls for attention, mainly due to height and color. If you put a black background on the tank, swap out your heater for the black stealth and swap out the intake tube for something black as well and you won't feel the need to go high in the left back corner.
I also think the gayli is too tall for the right front. As you mentioned Blyxa would be perfect there.

I really like the size and position of the "falls" and some color in the middle of it all would be really nice.

My Scapes

It's looking good Matty. Have you seen the glosso creeping up the falls yet?


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Matty,

Nice set of pictures. Your rainbow sure looks like it had nice colors even though they are blured. (it is ok! I can't take good fish pictures either)You did make up for it with your very artistic plant shots.

In stead of buying a new heater why not stick it side ways towards the bottem of the tank?

The glosso looks like its filling in nicely. I am with Tetra on the gayi. Maybe try using it closer to the baby tears? Move the red stuff closer to the falls so that its one larger eye catcher?

For the moss are you thinking DW or Rocks? I think some DW would be nice. Maybe try building it pointing away from the falls.




55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Matty,

Nice set of pictures. Your rainbow sure looks like it had nice colors even though they are blured. (it is ok! I can't take good fish pictures either)You did make up for it with your very artistic plant shots.

In stead of buying a new heater why not stick it side ways towards the bottem of the tank?

The glosso looks like its filling in nicely. I am with Tetra on the gayi. Maybe try using it closer to the baby tears? Move the red stuff closer to the falls so that its one larger eye catcher?

For the moss are you thinking DW or Rocks? I think some DW would be nice. Maybe try building it pointing away from the falls.

In terms of an overall shape I think it should be a triangle from upper right to bottem left.



Just for you Matt

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Just for you Matt

Shakes fish at monty python.

Hey I see floating plants

AH! You got me, noe why'd I leave those up there in plain sight?

From a scaping point I like the overall tank, but I'm not crazy about the left back and right front.

Yeah, me either. I wouldn't want those ludwigia to be that tall, even if I kept the heater and stuff there, I just didn't get to trimming them down. I could move those over into the center somewhere to draw more attention. That would probably work out the best.

Your rainbow sure looks like it had nice colors even though they are blured.

Thanks, I just wish I had nowher's camera, I could get a nice shot of him flicking his fins at the other guys. Such a site to see. I definitely don't regret getting these fish.

In stead of buying a new heater why not stick it side ways towards the bottem of the tank?

Ah you guys know that I'm not going to be buying a new heater or any of that business. If anything, I'll take it out for you during picture time. I do know what you mean about feeling the need to build stuff up over there. I'll keep that in mind from now on, cause I think you're right about that. I'll try not to do that anymore.

For the moss are you thinking DW or Rocks? I think some DW would be nice. Maybe try building it pointing away from the falls.

I'm thinking a few more rocks. I don't feel the urge to put DW in there. I've never bought DW that I liked in a tank. I'll keep an eye out for some, but I'm not even sure what I would want. It would have to be small stuff, because the falls are supposed to be the big structure, any large DW would look weird. I do intend on getting a couple more of those rocks, and spreading them along the bottom.

As for shape, I'm thinking a little modded log curve. If you can remember back into trig class.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Never had to take Trig. Help me out!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

This is actually Y=-Ln(X), flipped sideways to fit my liking:



Attached Image:

y=-ln(x)

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

*shakes fish at fp code*

Well this is what I was trying to say before I had to give the fp code a beatdown. Red is a straight line, black is a natural log type curve, very slow in rising, not much room to plant . Blue is somewhere inbetween. That gives me a little room for some plants to grow up before we get to the glossofalls.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I love the tank, the glosso looks great and wants it covers the deathstar the tank will look awsome.
I see you trimmed the cabomba to. Your rainbows look very colorful by the way.

-Vincent

Matty,

OT question: what kind of camera and what WB setting? Shots looks great, especially one of your SW shots in that log.

---

Back in the saddle!