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Nowher,

Welcome to the wonderful world of UV Sterlization.

After the water clears don't forget to clean the filter pad. If your concerned that it might unchelate FE you could run it at nite only after the tank clears. That's what I'm doing now.



My Scapes

Welcome to the wonderful world of UV Sterlization

Just make sure that you don't stand too close to the light

]]]

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, we planted tank owners like to live on the edge: we keep large tanks full of highly pressurized CO2, ready to explode; we keep devices that emit harmful cancer causing UV rays in plain view... nope, we're definetly not nerds...

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My thoughts were more geared towards the Sterilization than the cancer though.



Who is a nerd ?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 30-Dec-2005 11:36

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Don't look now, but there's another guru in the house:%)

BTW - I'm no nerd, I bowl in a mens league (tough group), coach soccer and play softball. I just happen to be a fish guru as well.





Last edited by tetratech at 30-Dec-2005 12:21

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Ha, I didn't even notice

And no Tetratech, you are not a nerd ]

It's just the rest of us that are a little, how shall I say, off

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

UV update:

Been away for a few days, family, new years eve party, hangover etc. Here's a shot from Thursday compared to what I came home to today:




There's clearly a difference, and the tank is less green and more see through - however, it has definetely taken on a whiteish cloudy appearance. Im guessing this is just dead algae still in the water, but can anyone recommend a good bit of mechanical filtration to get it out of there?

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Yes, nowhere it's working. Mine did the same thing. How fast do you think the flow rate is. Anyway I didn't do anything but change my filter pad a few times just keep rinsing it. You could use a clumping agent like Hagen's P-Clear to help clump it so the filter could get it. The Hagen product was very effective. Within a few hours the water was really clear and with your UV it should stay that way.


Last edited by tetratech at 02-Jan-2006 17:58

My Scapes

Filter floss, the kind made for aquatic use, add a handful to the filter and keep changing it. Then the biological filter won't be disturbed. Changing the sponge too often may cause a mini-cycle. I wouldn't chance it. Once I siphoned water through a filter bag filled with the floss then just put the water back in the tank(2G). It cleared out quite a bit of the stuff. Took a bit of time but the end result was less gw.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

NowherMan6,

What a nightmare, I should stop complaining about the few Thread algae strings that I have in the tank. At least I can see something.

I really hope that your plants get enough light in there. It would be a bummer if you have to regrow them once again.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Actually the plants are growing very well. I haven't stopped dosing any ferts during the GW because that would do no good. My rotala has fully come back, and the ludwigia has grown nicely. The tenellus is putting out tons of runners (but needs some pruning) and the hygro is reaching the surface. I cant see the bacopa but I'm sure that's doing well too

Seriously, this has been a nitemare but I'm happy I didn't kill the plants to spite the algae like last time ::roll eyes::

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Definitely a good move with the UV. In a few days your tank should be pretty much clear and then it will be clearer than ever even when looking through the side.

I fact that it can kill parasites and other bacteria is an added bonus.

I also notice that the fish and plant colors look a little crisper because of the clear water. When my tank is filled all the way up and there's no surface agitation you really can't tell there is water in the tank.

My Scapes

NowherMan6,

Glad to hear that your plants don't seem to care about the GW at all .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Clearing continues. I didn't get a full tank shot, but after a waterchange last night i took some shots of the rotala:



the the ludwigia from overhead:



As you can see the water is still cloudy, but definetely a lot clearer than even two days ago. For the first time I was able to see all the way to the back of the tank. It's amazing, the bacopa has doubled in size since i trimmed it about two weeks ago, as has the rotala and the ludwigia. The right side of my tank is now dense and thick with plants, it's really cool looking, like I imagined it after doing the re-do.

That said, i realize that I have some rearranging to do. Basically, the rotala is coming in greener than I thought, and the ludwigia redder than I thought, so basically there's a this huge green mass on the right side, and a big puff of reddish green on the left, so it looks off balance. I'm going to have to switch some around, but they're all growing very well. It's not quite time for a full tank shot yet, a few more days of clearing and I'll put a few up


And now, a game! It's called, guess what kind of plant this is! A few weeks ago I noticed this little green bit under the gravel, pushed right up against the glass. Eventually I thought it would just go away or die, but I let it go for a little while and sure enough it started to grow. Recently it finally poked a leaf above the gravel and I'm not sure what it is. It may be a hygro leaf, I don't know. What do you all think?
(Also, note the green spot algae on the glass right near the gravel line... bensaf, is not alone )


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Very nice photos, NowherMan6

note the green spot algae on the glass right near the gravel line

I noticed the dried water drops on the outside of the glass

I have no idea what plant this little baby might become one day . It is always fun to watch something grow and slowly close in on its identification. Rather often than not it takes a while though until at least a few leaves and the stem are visible, right now it could be almost any plant .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

the rotala is coming in greener than I thought,
This is where it's hard to be all things to everything in your tank. From what I understand the rotala will be red if your no3 is lean and of course if you add enough FE, but some plants like the high no3 (like my stargrass) so I have both. You might have to add alot of FE to get it more red. What are you adding now?

My Scapes

I noticed the dried water drops on the outside of the glass

Well, we can sit here all day and point fingers but... I can't, because I have to go clean my glass...


tetra, thanks for the info, I didn't know lean N would make them turn reddish. But like you I think I have a similar problem, a few of the older leaves on my hyro are developing little holes, which I understand means low N? Or am I wrong on that?

In any case i see what you mean... which is why I think I'll just move some of the rotala and ludwigia around to add some contrast.

Right now I'm dosing:

1/4 tsp KNO3 every other day
1/16-1/8 K2SO4
1ml phosphate about once a week

fourish on off days from the macros

I actually have a little bottle of flourish iron from when i had swords in the tank, but last time I used that I was promptly treated to a 3 month out break of staghorn algae in the gravel bed. ]:|]:|

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older leaves on my hyro are developing little holes, which I understand means low N? Or am I wrong on that?
I believe some holes is a potassium deficiency. I think low no3 would bring yellowish and stunting.

EDIT: I just looked again at your po4 dosing are you doing 1ml once a week. That's a big hit. Even if it's only once a week it's still about 1 to 3 with your no3 dosing that should be more like 1 to 10.

Last edited by tetratech at 05-Jan-2006 10:57

My Scapes

Older leaves having holes means low K, not N

Now that you know that go back to cleaning the glass (good joke, I love it) .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the clarification on the leaf holes fellas.

See, I thought that was a lot of PO4 too, but I wasn't thinking in terms of ratios. Whenever I test (I know, it could be unreliable) it never comes up more than 1ppm, so it's not exactly high. Maybe that just means my N is still low?

Where's tetras test calibration method again? He never reminds us of how useful that test can be...







And my glass is perfectly clean, it's just that one spot, I swear!


And if you don't believe that, I was working on the tank last night and I forgot to clean the glass after some spillage!


And if you don't believe that... well... I don't clean the glass as much as I should... happy?

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 05-Jan-2006 12:58

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I am actually starting to get some holes in my Giant Hygro. I had this problem back when it was in my 20 gallon set up. Once I got it in my 40 gallon they went away. Maybe it is time to break down and start dosing!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

NowherMan6,

What is the latest on the GW? You haven't added an update in over 2 days.

Is it gone?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 08-Jan-2006 05:59

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Whoops, guess I haven't updated in a few days. I've actually been away in sunny LAWN-GUY-LAND visiting family.

I've been working on pulling some old pics together because i want to put them together in a montage. Of all the logs going on right now, I think I have one of, if not the oldest tank going (not in current form, but in existence period) and it's gone through so many changes. Here is is!

















and finally, today:

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The rotala tops have turned this magnificent bright reddish color, really beautiful. Here are some shots of the rotala with harlies:






And one unwelcome sight - some little tufts of green hair algae on the driftwood... though it actually looks kind of nice:

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NowherMan6,

Nice montage of tank over period of time, and quite a few very green pictures in between. I didn’t know you had GW before you started this log. Your tank sure went through some major changes over time. From the last picture in the second last post I see that it is getting better now but it is still there. As long as the fish are happy and the plants are growing it can take all the time it want to clear up.

Yeah, your hair algae does look good, almost like a miniature version of a moss. Maybe you can market it. How long did it take to reach that size and does it spread?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes the cloudiness is still there, but it's definetely going away. And the plants are more than happy it seems - CO2 is pushing, I'm still dosing macros and micros, there's no reason for them to NOT be happy

It's funny you made the comparison of the haur algae to moss because I just ordered a few different kinds of moss from aquabid: java, erect and mini moss. I want to experiment with them, plus I'm going to use them a good deal in my little 7 gal. in the works.

As for this tank, I have more work to do on it as well. I don't like the symetrical tenellus set-up, with front row split between left and right. I think I'm going to thin it out or remove it from the left, maybe have it sporadically in the center region, and keep it on the right in front of the DW. I'm also going to move those rocks around and push them back where I'm adding that large branchy piece of DW. Finally, the vals are going to go, the make no impact at all and I think they'll be better suited to the little tank. The hygro is up in the air, dunno if I'll keep it.

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That algae does actually look good on the dw, sometimes you get lucky.

I'm glad the tank is clearing. Your flow rate must be faster than mine, that's probably why it's taking longer to clear.

My Scapes

NowherMan6,

If the vals are going, and maybe even the hygro, do you have a vision on plants that should replace them or are you going to fill it out with the remaining plants?

Ingo

PS: Could this change invoke another GW?

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Good question, LF. I have some vision of what I want to do, but a lot will depend on how the new driftwood works out. Right now you'll notice there's a big empty space right in the middle of the tank (see pic below) - that's where I figure the branchy part of the DW will go. I know I'm going to try using moss as a bit of ground cover and to highlight the driftwood, but I don't know of any other larger plants to use.



But I'm still looking for a different kind of plant/ plants to fill the void a bit. I was going to ask you all about it on here but it seemed like I was getting ahead of myself a bit I really have no ideas though

It's funny about the hygro, I remember Bensaf said at some point, maybe in this thread even, that hygro is hard to keep under control in a small tank like this and I never understood it until now. The leaves just seem too big for the tank, and that's ignoring how fast it can take over. It really is hard to work with in a little 46 gallon.


Oh yeah, and the whole point of the UV is that little single celled organisms die and dont come back, so I dont think it'll ignite another GW bloom....

... however, if it does, as tetra said in his thread earlier, look on ebay for a bit planted tank set up, complete with UV, CO2 set up and PC lighting. [/font]

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It really is hard to work with in a little 46 gallon
Speaking of hygro taking over, this is my old 46 with lots of it. Also I wouldn't worry about the gw coming back. If you stir things up the alge cells are continuing being zapped by the UV so they shouldn't be able to build up in enough numbers to make a bloom.



tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 09-Jan-2006 07:29[/font]

My Scapes

Yeah,

Let's wait and see the driftwood first before we think about what plants would accomodate it, good thought.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

46 BW not big enough.......I am trying to work with a 40G long...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

46 BW not big enough.......I am trying to work with a 40G long...

I know, I didn't mean to imply that our tanksa re that small, but for what we're trying to do here, create pleasing aquscapes that don't look crowded, that make the tank look larger than it actually is, there are an awful lot of plants out there that you'd think would work well, but really work much better in much larger tanks. We can't all have 125s and 200 gallon monsters...


tetra, nice pic of your old tank. I can see why you started a new one though - comparing your new tank to the 46, the 46 really looks flat, just those two contrasting shades of green. What's funyn is I can see how it inspired your new tank, with the big rock mound on the left (now in the center) and the DW branch poking out the right/ back

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Thanks nowher, hopefully I've learned something. It would be nice to have a tank just to play with. You would also need a large inventory of hardscape to try different setups. Notice how big the Angelfish looks in the tank. I just don't see the beauty of keeping angels in small tanks.


My Scapes

Truth be told, I was going to get an angel before you posted that picture in a thread a while back. It looks huge! To keep a full grown angel in a tank like that... of course you can do it and it's fine for the fish, but it just looks silly and clumsy. And actually, it was that thread which got me seriously thinking of re-doing my tank... so in a way, if it weren't for your giant angel fish, I'd have never gone through with this re-do. I'd like to shake his fin

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Glad I could help in some way. I guess if your not doing a planted tank and just putting a few angels in like a breeding tank. there's considerable more room, but IMO no beauty in it.

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Another quick update, this time on the little plant growing right up against the glass. I almost don't believe it but it's starting to look like a crypt wendtii leaf





This one shows a bit more detail:



Notice the shape of the leaf. Any thoughts? I know it's still kinda hard to tell...[/font]

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 11-Jan-2006 08:56[/font]

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My guess would be that it is a sword of some kind

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It would be wild if that's what it turns out to be. Not impossible though. When i redid the tank I left that layer of watery mulm sitting there when I put in the new gravel. It's perfectly possible that a little piece of crypt or sword was left over in the bit of water and got pushed around towards the front, where it was able to get some light from outside the tank. Life always finds a way, huh? (name the movie that's from... )

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Life always finds a way, huh? (name the movie that's from... )

Jurrasic Park That's one of my favorite lines. In the aquarium business we like to say "Algae always finds a way".

I guess it's not that different, sine algae is a primitive from of life.


Last edited by tetratech at 11-Jan-2006 12:51

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Bingo! Good job tetra

I always liked that line because jeff Goldbloom says it, and he's fantastic in that role. In every movie he makes he should play a neurotic geek.


Anyway, a what plant is this question: The plant below came in a bunch of ludwigia repens, but it grows much slower and, well, doesnt look at all like it any more. Any guesses? it's the one dead center:




And another shot of the tank clearing. This was actually two days ago, it's since gotten even clearer:



That GW outbreak I had was awful, glad it's behind me [/font][/font]

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Looking good Nowhere, plants look really good.

My first thought on the scape now that I could see it
I love the right side, really nice the way it looks sloped up. I think it would look great to duplicate the right side on the left and then have DW poking through randomly.

BTW - I know your tank was really green, but I'm curious what the flow rate is on your powerhead that is running the UV.



My Scapes

Your tank is growing in very nicely and the green water at this stage gives it actually a nice natural appearance, like a section of the Amazon in the morning hours. In particular that floater helps with that impression.

About the plant: Broad Leaf Ludwigia Repens, my guess. I had one coming in with my narrow leaf as well. Although I have to say that mine only grows slightly slower than the narrow leaf.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks guys it is nice to actually see what's going on in the tank now.

LF, the water isn't green, i was actually playing around with color channels in photoshop and emphisized green a little too much. It's more whiteish cloudy than anything, no green tint.

Re: the aquascaping - the right is very cool looking right now. Very full. I'm starting to see which plants I like and Which I don't like. For example, I'm not too high on the polysperma - which is unsurprising since I wasnt high on it when I had it earlier. Too invasive, not enough character. It's colored up nicely, the tips have turned reddish, even at low levels, so I guess my micros are at a good place.

i do like the rotala a lot, it grows in very sturdy, it's easy to build with. The wisteria adds some nice shape, mine is growing up, not creeping like tetras, but i still like it. And I like the bacopa for now too.

On the left side, that's where the big DW will go once I cure it some more and add some moss to it. the left is a little harder to deal with because of the filter outflow. The luwigia looks great, but it moves around a lot in the flow. I think it'll look much better if I keep it lower rather than high, and keep it in a few small bushes around the DW rather than one large one.

And I have to say, the vals have grown on me a little bit...


Also, the flow for the UV is I think 150 or 175 GPH from the powerhead... One of those.


Last edited by NowherMan6 at 13-Jan-2006 09:54

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I think it'll look much better if I keep it lower rather than high, and keep it in a few small bushes around the DW rather than one large one.
Yeah I think I see where your going. That should look really nice. There are just so many ways to do a scape. That's what's great about, none I exactly alike.

Your powerhead is about as strong as my eheim (185gph) and your's is dedicated to the uv. I think that's a big reason it took longer to clear. Another advantage is ich or other parasites in the water column. You might not have to use meds anymore. Once the ich leaves the fish and is in the water column it should get destroyed by the UV as well.

My Scapes

The funny thing about the UV gph flow rate is that on the box it says up to 300gph which is an awful lot.

And are you suggesting my fish have ich??? Sir, I am insulted!

Actually, I had ich once and didnt lose a fish and that was way before plating the tank. Another thumbs up for stress free planted tanks


...and UVs...

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And are you suggesting my fish have ich??? Sir, I am insulted!
I would never suggest such a thing, but if they did get it, which I'm sure they won't, you might be able to cure it without meds.

My Scapes

Any time you dont have to use icdh meds, thats a positive. And any time that same device that allows you not to have to use ich meds aslo clears obnoxious single celled free floating protists, all the better! As you've said in your log, the parasite killing function is just an added bonus


Anyway, Ive been away the past few days, it's going to be a few more days until I'm back on again - though i should have some good stuff to post re:my new mosses

Take care everyone!

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OK, got back from a little vacation and I had to do some trimming. I wasn't able to dose anything while gone, so i think i bottomed out on something because, I dunno, the plants just seemed off - can't really explain it, maybe some were more stingy than normal. So anyway, on to the pics, note the new aquascape - it's temporary but i just thought I'd try it out.

I think this qualifies as clear tank water, even though there's a hint of cloudiness:



Basically, I moved the vals, trimmed the bacopa and rotala, did a major weeding of the tenellus because they'd gotten so thick, and trimmed the ludwigia.

Here's a side shot:



And few shots, close ups of the rotala:





I've been learning more about the plants I like/ dont like as they've grown in. For example, I don't like hygro and I removed it from the scape. It's just too hard to keep it under control, it's quite invasive and big leaved, hard to blend it in with other plants. I think proper use of it would be to use it as a main plant, in corners etc., but to blend is very hard.

Also, I no longer think ludwigia repens is a stand alone background plant. It's too stringy when tall, flows around too much, similar to hygro polysperma. I think from now on I'm going to use it as a midground plant and keep it short in small groups, similar to like so:




And finally, for the hell of it, a yo-yo:




And so the tank continues to morph... [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]

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Nowher,
Tank definitely is looking clear, as I said your flow must be very fast otherwise I think it would have been crystal a while ago. Wait to you see the tank in another week or so. You'll have to put your hand in it to make sure there is water. One nice thing about GW and I'm not sure why this, but it seems to prevent other algaes from appearing. Most people with GW only have GW and no other algae.

From the pics the plants still look healthy. From a scaping point of view I think you need something to tie it all together, but I think you said more DW is going in. Once the DW is in your could probably fine-tune around it and bring everthing together.

BTW - Nice loach. I was always tempted to get those, but I was afraid the Yo-Yo might get psyc-o with my plants.

Last edited by tetratech at 17-Jan-2006 21:45

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tetratech,

I have Skunk Loaches in my tank and they don't seem to do much damage. The do at times swim around like crazy though.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Agree with Wings, they move around a lot but I
ve never seen them damage anything. I have to believe they nibble sometimes, just like other fish, but they're too small to seriously uproot anything. If you get any bottom dwellers like them, bascially kiss any eggs goodbye, they'll seek them out and destroy them quickly.

And on your advice I found a way to slow down the flow rate of the powerhead - which i should have noticed before - but now it's coming out much much slower, so maybe that'll have an effect.

I'm still waiting on the moss to set up my DW piece. It's been sitting there, all ready for the big show, and I'm sure it's starting to lose patience

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Yeah sure, the wood is losing patience, not you

Glad to see you back, and even better that you came back to a tank that is almost clear now.

I think your approach with the Repens is good. I, at least for the moment, like mine half high as well, and although it is in my background I will not let it grow to full height anymore. There is one problem though with that, at least for me. It is branching out nicely but while doing so shades the bottom more and more. As a result the lower leaves fall off and when it is time to dispose of the tops (too much branching make very weak stem parts) I will have very ugly bottoms. I think one way to control that would be to anticipate the time for it and let the Repens grow taller for 3 to 5 weeks beforehand.

I will also add one more Repens feature in my thread in a few minutes, make sure to see it .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Right on about the repens. The other alternative is to have it grow tall but just let it peek out of the top for some color and texture. In other words, hide the stringy stems with other plants Rotala, on the other hand, is fast becoming my favorite tall plant... second only to tetras stargrass

So here's a little story. I remember some time ago there was a thread in recovery room wherein someone asked if FP members have something like a sixth sense of sorts with their tanks, I.E. if at night you hear the filter is making some kind of soft but different noise, so it wakes you up, or other little things like that. I hadn't had an experience like that until last night. It was about 3:30AM and I woke up very startled to a muted "THUD!" Normally I would've just rolled over and assumed it was nothing, but this time I sprang up out of bed, turned on the light and immedietely looked over to the tank - turns out my instincts were right, because first thing I noticed was that the outflow tube from the UV was laying on the floor, spewing water all over my bedroom carpet ]:| I guess I had left the tube in an unstable position after trimming and WC last night, and something eventually made it slip and fall out. But luckily I had the presence of mind to jump up right away and fix it. Only about a gallon or 1.5 gallons of water had spilled out into the carpet, which could have easily been 5 or more had I not been so quick to react. But holy crap that scared me waking up like that! Then I had to soak everything up, check all the electrical wires to make sure they were dry etc. etc. Needless to say I didn't sleep well

So, I wouldn't qualify this as a full blown disaster, but it came way too close for comfort...

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What a nice story about 6th sense

Glad you hadn’t been out that night with Bensaf as you for sure would not have woken up

Now on to your plant statement:

“Rotala, on the other hand, is fast becoming my favorite tall plant”

How are you planning to trim this plant?

I would say that you will have to dispose of the bottoms rather frequently, so leave enough access space around them to do so. I think tetratech can second this opinion (right ? ).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think tetratech can second this opinion (right ? ).
Yes and No. I mean my rotala did fine with about 4 or 5 toppings and then it completely stalled, but it might have been from lean no3 and a combination of too many toppings. If your not going to stay on top of it you might be better off just replanting the tops all the time. It's a pretty firm plant, so it's really not that big a problem maintenance wise. Alot of aquarists like to leave the base because it will grow bushier if cut correctly. But LF is right, eventually you will have to replant the tops.



My Scapes

Yeah

In my non-CO2, medium light, very low fert tank it took only 9 months until the Rotala stems became very unsightly and constant trimming had made the top stems very thin as well.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

IME thus far - and I think I remember tetras being similar - they grow quite well for a few trimmings, but after a few they need to be pulled and replanted because they stop growing, and generally get ugly looking. This seems to me no different than your average stem plant, and it's to be included in the mental maintenence plan we all make up when designing the scape etc. - in other words, nothing extreme or out of the ordinary, at least IMO. The reson i like it so much is because when it grows tall it remains bushy and full looking, it doesnt become stringy and gangly looking, or grow in bended shapes like ludwigia and hygro are e to do. Even the bottoms I notice are still nice looking, and they're hidden behind my DW.

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to be included in the mental maintenance plan we all make up when designing the scape

Well, at least I know now what I forgot to do when designing my scape

My mental maintenance plan is more like: oih, did this one get tall / bushy / overgrown – what do I do now?



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well it only works if you have experience with/ know others with experience with a certain type of plant. It's a bit different when you read the tropica database and say "ooo! look at that one there! med-high light, CO2 - i have those, i think i'll try it!" and you don't know what to expect from it - kind of like your apons with the giant floating leaves. Didn't expect that one now did ya?

In my case, I didn't expect the rotala to be a bi-weekly replant type plant and so far I've been right... now that tenellus on the other hand... ]:|

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Back in the saddle!

See, I like dense tenellus. I have it in my 29G and if it wouldn’t be the perfect hiding place for platie fry (just found another 4 yesterday) then I would keep it very dens. I think it looked great when I had that setup.

And no, I didn’t expect the floaters on the apons . But I haven’t had a new one in 2 weeks now and instead 2 of the apons have flowers again .
But another thing I didn’t expect was the length of my crypt retrospirals leaves, they must be 30 inches or so. And these you cannot trim halfway down, you have to remove the whole leaf. Sometime soon I will uproot the plant anyway to separate the youngsters and plant them separately .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Maybe I jumped the gun on the tenellus, but in my case it was on the ugly side, I think because the mother plants that were all grown emersed never made it back - they all had some form of dead or ugly looking growth that never came in right even after pruning. What I just thinned out, I removed all the mother plants and replanted some of the best looking babies. Maybe they'll grow in nicer now.


And good to hear about the apons and crypts! Glad theyre doing better and the weird growth has stopped.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Do me a favor and try to describe the ugly/dead growth on the original mother plants some more. Some of my older tennellus has browning and thinning leaves but I now can see light green new leaf growth in the center of these plants (all only in the 125).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sure.

The old (original) plants went through a few stages. First came the die off of emmersed growth. That I picked off easy enough. But, though i picked the stems down as close to the base as possible, there still remained some small stalks poking out of the subtrate. Those began to rot, so it was a pain clealing that out. Then very few new leaves grew out from those mother plants, and what did wasn't very good looking. It was dark and kind of limp looking, and started to grow BBA on it rather quickly, which suggests to me an unhealthy plant, since it appeared nowhere else. They all sent out runners and the runners for the most part look great, no bba, bright green growth very healthy looking. It may have been a complete die off from being emmersed, though slower than the original leaf die off.

Also, when they started to grow too close together, that's when i noticed some of the runners becoming sickly looking as well. I think it's when they bunch up like that, that's when they get ugly looking. That's why i decided to prune them and thin them out. When they have a little room they look great, bunched together they start to suffer. At least that's been my experience with it.


And just on a side note, I think that says something about plant and algae growth in general. It's been my experience that, for the most part, and with some exceptions, algae doesn't just grow out of nowhere on healthy plant leaves. It grows on plants that are unhealthy looking, where growth is stalled or abnormal. In other words, the algae doesnt slow the plants down, the slow plants invite the algae. It can happen in any tank, it's just a matter of giving certain plants the room they need to not become stunted, as is the case with the tenellus, IM(brief )E.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Thanks for the detailed description on your tenellus problems, doesn’t sound like what I had going on in my tank in the last 2 weeks. I think mine might have been caused by my tinkering with the ferts.

About your generalization approach in the last statement:

So true, but common knowledge
You know I don’t mean it that harsh (right? ), but it is well known that slow growing plants are more e for algae than fast growers. Ergo, a leaf that is sick on a fast grower, and stops fast growth, is a slow grower, and as such more e for algae. Or is that not what you are saying?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes yes, i realize it's common knowledge to you Plant Gurus, but that was just an "Aha!" moment for me. Ya know what I'm talking about, you KNOW something is true but for some reason you see it happen and it just makes sense and then you actually GET it? I dunno, it made sense to me. The bottom line is, the tenellus will be weeded once a month, conditions permitting

What do you think happened with yours?

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Back in the saddle!

Well,

As you may recall I made this experiment with cutting my ferts really low, in particular I didn't add this Plantex stuff for 2 weeks straight. Guess that could have done it .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,
I know you said you wanted to see the media compartments of the eheim ecco so here ya go.

This is a pic right out of my manual.
These are the three models, mine is the 2235 to the right.
You could see the baskets with the different media in it.
The blue on the bottom is the coarse pad and then the biomedia (ehfisubstrate), and on the top is the fine pad and then the carbon. My setup is pretty much like this, but without the carbon. At setup eheim recommends the carbon for the first few weeks, until biofilter, etc kick in (Interesting).

Each of those baskets interlock by twisting so the whole thing could be pulled out of the cansister at once. You could see the top and media handle just above the carbon.

When I bought my 2235 it did no come with all that biomedia in the middle baskets, It basically came with 5 or so blue coarse pads, they have changed changed that and now the 2235 is sold as the 2236 with the setup you see in the pic. Big Als I know sells it as the 2236. If you buy the 2235 you just have to by the ehfisubstrate separately or use any media biomedia you want. Pretty much anything will fit in those baskets.




tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Hey tetra, thanks for the pic, that's perfect. I ordered a 2236 the other day - I figure you were right about getting the larger one

1.) because I can always turn the flow rate down

2.) more likely than not i'll wind up getting a larger tank in the future, so i'll have a suitable filter already


My moss came the other day, and it survived the trip from Singapore surprisingly well.

The new DW should be added within a few days, with rearranged rocks and moss added.

After that however, I believe I will be for the most part cutting back heavily on my posting to this log. I know, I know, hold back your tears everyone. I think in general it's run its course, and my heart hasn't been into it for a little while now. Plus I find I'm posting to others' threads far more than my own. I'll still post occasional photos, this isn't a full blown retirement, but it'll be a weekly or bi-weekly thing now, rather than every day or so.

Thanks to everyone who helped me out from the beginning, when this was a "Just a few questions" thread 300+ posts later, here it stands. I learned a great deal through the log method, and I highly reccomend it to others starting up tanks. As I said, pics in a few days. Cheers, and happy planting!

-Rich

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Back in the saddle!

I think in general it's run its course, and my heart hasn't been into it for a little while now
You pulling a Bensaf on us. He is a trend starter - EI, plants, diffusors, beer, occassional poster

I just want you to know that anyone that doesn't post on a regular basis it can be assumed that they are having massive algae problems and are too embarrased to post pics of their tanks.

My Scapes

You pulling a Bensaf on us.

Hey now, I'm not pulling a Bensaf - unless you mean, drink heavily, smoke like a chimney and have beautiful planted tanks with no algae... then yes, that's what I'm trying for.

But I'm not emulating the Great Bensaf Blackout of '05. Just cutting back on this one log, that's all. The only posts will be with regards to plant changes/ aquascape changes and problems. Since I move slowly on those fronts, posting will only be closer to weekly rather than daily.

And I will post pics to show that my tank is not embarassingly covered with algae... just slightly covered with algae, thank you very much.

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Back in the saddle!

I knew I could get you to post again

My Scapes

But I'm not emulating the Great Bensaf Blackout of '05

Bloody hell a guy goes into rehab for a few days .......

Funny about being a trend setter.... how come I couldn't get anyone else into a skirt and pom poms? But mention beer and diffusers and they all want in

Right I'm off to work on next trend, little leather biker jackets for the fish to wear.... I hear that's hot for the spring season and apparently pink is the new black

Think it might be time for another stint in re-hab.....

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I hear that's hot for the spring season and apparently pink is the new black

:igh:: What would Johnny Cash say if he heard that... ::roll eyes::


That's one trend I'm happy to let you pioneer on your own

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Back in the saddle!

You guys are getting a little weird.....what have you been drinking?? That stuff can't be good for you.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well NowherMan6,

As sad as it is, I accept your decision to limit your entries to your thread (I have no other choice anyway ).

Getting over 300 entries together that cover all the changes you made and events that happened in just a period of time is not too shabby, come to think of – just a few months ago this would have been considered a reeeaaalllyyyy long thread (and still is if it wasn’t for tetratech and myself).

Just make sure that you cover the immediate enhancements (moss and wood) in the same details as you did before. This way you end this section in your tank’s development homogeneous and then you can start to switch to more sporadic updates. Which, in my opinion, is less of a Bensaf style and more of a Mattyboombatty style.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So the eheim came yesterday and I'm a bit confused. Was a spraybar supposed to be included or is that something to be put together separately? From what I can see the outflow tube is just that one bent tube that sits just below the surface of the water, nothign attached thereto. What am i missing? Thanks

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Back in the saddle!

Was a spraybar supposed to be included or is that something to be put together separately

I'm thinking back when I got my eheim. Yes that little bent piece is the standard return tube. I think I remember having a similiar reaction as you. I somewho got the filling the spraybar was included and I'm pretty sure I called Bigals and played "dumb" and said "There was no spraybar" and they sent me one no charge. Yes I definitely recall doing that "Not bad for 40 something"

My Scapes

(still trying to figure out which smiley is for LOL, as this one says "hyperactive" )

Well, you bought the basic set, that is the problem. I made sure that I bought the upgrade with media (4l bio and 2l mech) and the new spray bar system. Actually, I called Big Al's first to make sure that all of this stuff is in the set.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well thanks for the warning guys Hmm, some Planted Tank forum buddies you turned out to be...




I guess I'll give ol' Big Al a call and see if he can hook me up. I can't seem to find the spray bar on the Dr. Foster Smith website (I have a gift certificate for them)

p.s. has anyone else noticed: ROLL EYES IS BACK!!!

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Back in the saddle!

I know LF has that "fancy" intake and return kit that can be assembled in 50 different configurations. LF you are an animal.

All you need is this http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=24997;category_id=2627

Here is a bad pic of mine with some descriptions on how it's setup. The pipe should come with an endcap to close the flow and make sure you get the one that works with the ecco.

Attached Image:


My Scapes

I know LF has that "fancy" intake and return kit that can be assembled in 50 different configurations

Yeah, but what I really need is the 51st configuration, and that one was missing



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, looks like it's another ride out to absolutely fish for me... they have a pretty good parts department there, I think I'd be able to pick up a spray bar...

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Back in the saddle!

All I can say is:



You have to be ready to pay 100% more than at Big Al's.
(I hope Mike, aka Tainted Glory, doesn't read that - he works there)

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah yeah I know... but I figure mixing in the cost of shipping it works out about even...

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

You might want to give them a call first and see if they have a kit at all.

I went on the Big Al's website and cannot find a separate outlet / spraybar kit in their stock, hm.

I found a similar intake kit, and that was $20.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Drsfostersmith has this on their website, listed I guess as an upgraded spraybar outfit. See "Installation set 2"

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9606&Ntt=eheim&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1

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Back in the saddle!

Uh,

Do you know which size you would need there?

Set 2 (12/16 mm)

Or

Set 2 (16/22 mm)

?

I think it would be the first one, but be sure to measure first (before going to the LFS or ordering online).

Also, if you go to the LFS (and they have it) be prepared to pay around $40 at least.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,
Am I missing something. All you need is that $5.99 piece from BigAls. See if they'll send it to you first for nothing.

BTW you need the 12/16 size for the ecco.

Better yet just go to home depot/lowes and get any piece of rigid tubing. Take that bent return piece with you and see what tubing fits and punch some holes in it - custom spraybar - $0.99

My Scapes

Better yet just go to home depot/lowes and get any piece of rigid tubing. Take that bent return piece with you and see what tubing fits and punch some holes in it - custom spraybar -

I may very well do just that, great idea. I'm excited to finally get to install the new canister set up this weekend. I've had it with aquaclears and HOBs in general. That's three bad experiences in a row with them

it's probably better than payign through the nose elsewhere, as LF said. Besides, i don't need anything top of the line, I have a little tank and creating water movement wont be too much of a problem for me.

I also may get to set up my DW piece with moss, finally... /:'

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Back in the saddle!

I also may get to set up my DW piece with moss, finally

Did you get that on eBay?

You have Java moss, right?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Actually, I lucked out with this DW piece and found it at an LFS. Good find for a petland discounts...

But I do still routinely peruse ebay because hey, you never know.

Now as for the moss, yes i have java moss. I also have erect moss and mini-moss, which I'm trying to grow out to be used in my 7gal little planted tank sometime in the next month or so. The java looks great, so that'll go in the big tank with the wood, but I'm torn on whether or not to put the erect moss in the big tank just yet.

I originally wanted to put the java on the wood, and the erect near the base of the wood on some stones, but it seems to be PAINFULLY slow growing so I don't know yet. Right now it's in a 10 gal tank, 77 degrees, 28 W lighting, dosing NPK and excel and has shown little growth. The java is a big ball of growth right now.

And don't even get me started on the mini-moss - it looks equally slow growing, unless it's just taking a while to settle in.

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Back in the saddle!

I still haven't fiqured out moss in terms of growth. I had java moss in a 12g eclipse with a 13watt light, no dosing and a ton of guppies and it grew beautifully. Rich, green and full.

It was growing well in my open-top same tank and light as the guppy tank and then I changed the light and it started getting BGA and very dirty looking. It seems to not have any issues under lowlight. The higher light seems to make the water column "thicker" with a mix of things that interferes with growth.

My Scapes

Interesting about the java moss. I look forward to seeing what happens with it in my set-up.

It's the others - the erect and the mini moss - that I'm more anxious about. Java moss is tried and true, proven to be a good grower - thes eother two are kind of unknown. I should just be patient I guess, but I'm having trouble fidning good info on how to provide optimal conditions for these two.

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Back in the saddle!

Maybe DaMossMan can help here

You might want to shoot him a PM to point him to this thread, he might know a little about it.

Or we can ask the all- mighty Bensaf

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have a big clump of Erect Moss. No special requirements. It takes a looonnnggg time before it does anything. Wasn't do keen on it at first, but once it settled I really like it. Seems to only grow to a certain height then it spreads outwards, almost like each strand produces a side shoot. So it get wider rather then taller. Makes it very low maintenance , in the 3 months or so I've had it it's never been trimmed. You need to take this growth pattern into account when deciding where to place it.

I've got it tied to a rock sized piece of bogwood placed on the substrate in open light. Seems to be happy with this. Nice light green color, lots of texture, quite brittle so handle with care.

Like all mosses try to keep the temp at about 26-27o. Does just fine with normal EI levels.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks for the info Bensaf, I'll keep that in mind when arranging it. Nice to know that it'll take off eventually. Love the sig line, by the way


Well, it's been a while since I posted a pic, so here ya go. It's become very clear to me that I have a two tank thing going on, the right side being pretty full, the left side barren. I'm looking into other types of stem plants to help build up the bushyness and height on the left.



Also, if you notice the ludwigia looks pretty crummy and I don't know why. I may have bottomed out on N 2 weeks ago when I went away for 5 days and I think it screwed the plants up a bit.


And finally, I've made a decision on my stocking. I will no longer be adding another schooling fish, and I don't think I'm going for rams just yet. I've decided on Trichopsis pumilus, the Sparkling gourami. Saw some at an LFS, and they were gorgeous, graceful little guys. Like bettas but prettier and smaller. Since they're so small I'm thinking of getting a few, 4-6. Unless there's something I should know about them that would make this a bad idea?

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Back in the saddle!

I'm looking into other types of stem plants to help build up the bushyness and height on the left

I would do just the opposite. Fill the right corner more fully and let it slope down to the left. This has classic corner slope written all over it. This landscape arrangement will make you tank look longer as well.

Nice Job

Attached Image:


My Scapes

I am pretty much with tetratech,

Having a triangular shape mightlook very nice. Or, you could try 2/3rd or heigh plants and then a sharp drop to a meadow.

About the Ludiwigia: I don't know what might be the reason, but here are two thoughts:

- if the bottoms lose leaves then it doesn't get enough light
- second, and more hypothetical as I am just beginning to observe this in my big tank. It seems that some plants (in my case the Rotala Macandra, don't like to be near the CO2 output. My stems are very weak in that area, but in the upper realm, about 10" away from the CO2 Reactor, the plant looks very nice.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I also agree with tetra on the 'scaping. The tanks has triangular look written all over it.

Good choice on the sparkling Gouramies. They'll be fine in groups they like company. They'll look sweet in that tank.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

I see what you all are saying, I see it too now, and I think I can make it work. For now my plan is to still add the branchy DW, but I won't plant tall around it. Maybe I'll see if I can get a sort of carpeting effect going over the course of a few months with the moss in that region. Or do you think it would be better to keep the DW out at this point and rpeserve the triangle? I dunno, I guess I'll add it now just to see what it looks like - if it throws everything off too much I can always take it out.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Yeah, try it with the driftwood. As you say, you can always take it out again.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I went ahead and ruined a good thing this afternoon.

My tank, as you all have pointed out, had a nice sloping shape developing... but at the same time the rotala - the plant group that helped create that slope - was in desperate need of a trimming. So I went and did a hack job on the rotala. So right now it's kinda shapeless on the right side.

I also added the new branchy driftwood. I cut it down a bit and tied on some java moss on different branches. I'm actually kind of ashamed to post a pic because it looks really awkward right now what with the fishing line knots clearly visable and strands of java moss flailing about. Hopefully in a few days I'll work up the courage to post a pic, once it settles in a bit.

I also set up the new eheim and it works great, I love it already. I dont think Im going to bother with a spray bar, I seem to be getting good flow without one.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

Get over your tank not looking super all the time. We all know that these things are works in progresses. Look at my tank. http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/4916.1.htm?107#

The first picture isn't much to look at but people give you a hand and things get better.

On a compleatly different note...someone take this bag of chips away. I just about ate the whole thing!!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

NowherMan6,

Why should you be better off than any of us ?

I would encourage you to post a picture anyway as:

- it helps others to avoid the same mistake (if it even was one)
- it can be seen as a new starting point to get a nice aquascape together

The good thing about the fast growing stems is that mistakes of this kind are only a temporary setback that dissapears after only a few days. And you never know, giving it a severe haircut might make the group bushier than ever.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

yeah I guess you're right. yesterday I just had the same feeling you get when you go to get a haircut and it turns out a lot shorter than you expected and you stare at it in the mirror and go "Good Lord what have i done!! "

I ordered some new plants today, hopefully I'll get to it some time this week and it'll help even things in the the tank out a bit. Pics to come tonight.

And Wings, what can i tell ya. It's impossible to eat just a few chips at a time. My advice is to lower the impact on your heart and arteries by eating corn chips instead of greasy oily potato chips. then you can at least feel a LITTLE better about it... works for me anyway...

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Back in the saddle!

Yup they were corn chips and I finished the bag off today. Hopefully I don't get a beer gut because I don't even drink the stuff.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I ordered some new plants today

Nowher, where did you order from?

My Scapes

I ordered from aquariumplants.com. In the fall I think they were a little behind on some orders because of the hurricanes but I think they're back to normal now. I'm going to call them up tomorrow just to make sure they ship right away.


EDIT: Just checked my order status on their website: order was shipped today. Yup, they're back to normal

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Back in the saddle!

Yep, they are a good vendor. I got my regulator and my first round of plants from them. Last time I ordered from Aqua Botanic because they just happened to have some plants that I wanted to try.

My Scapes

I like those guys, I've tried other places but I always go back to them. Like I said, they had some supply problems that affected shipping times but they seem to be back to normal now.

Anyway, here goes nothing: a new tank shot. The DW is covered with a bit of java moss, which I plan on keeping shorn close to the branch once it grows in more. It's pretty wild now. The vals and the tenellus in from will be going once the new plants arrive. My idea is to go along with the right left slope and keep the plants around/below the DW quite low so the slope stays in tact. The DW kind of even keeps the slope shape if you look at it closely. What do ya think?



Attached Image:

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Back in the saddle!

Nowher,
Looks goods You filled in the right corner. I can't get a feel from the pic, but does the new DW piece go from back to front. Also if the tips of the branches were going toward the front of the tank the ends covered with moss won't interfere with the plants crossing thru it.

Not sure why you put so much moss on the wood. Am I missing something here.

Are you going to move the intake? You could really put that in the right corner and put your return on the left or even on the left glass and have the glass diffusor right under it with a clear tubing.

I think your definitely on your way. Looking forward to seeing the new plants.

My Scapes

NowherMan6,

You made it sound so much worse than it is when you described the current tank status. But I understand this, as you are the one right in front of the tank with the face pressed against the glass and looking at every tiny imperfection .

I see the rock that holds your wood down and I also see the fresh cuts on the branches. How long did you soak it before you added it to the tank?

I also would suggest you copy tetratech and get his stealth CO2 tubing . I am sure he doesn't mind .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey,

Thanks for the tips and comments.

I can't get a feel from the pic, but does the new DW piece go from back to front.

It goes right to left and back to front. I'll take a picture from the top down so you can get a better idea. Should've done that already

Not sure why you put so much moss on the wood. Am I missing something here

Well i made it very clear in earlier posts that when it comes to 'scaping with moss I'm quite clueless. My logic was, "take strands of moss. flatten them out. tie on with fishing line. rinse and repeat." I mean to eventually go through and trim off the hanging strands, but I figured I'd give it some time to grow in. I put so much moss on to begin with just to give it a good head start I guess. i want the branch to be pretty mossy eventually, that's why there's so much real estate on the wood itself dedicated to the moss. Is that what you meant?

In any case, it shouldn't interfere with plant growth because the plants in that area will be kept low.

Are you going to move the intake? You could really put that in the right corner and put your return on the left or even on the left glass and have the glass diffusor right under it with a clear tubing.

No plans on moving anything right now There's limited space behind and beneath the tank as it is, I had to use all my powers to fit the cannister filter with UV hook-up, plus the CO2 set up in the cabinet, and this way allows me to do it cleanly. Frankly the intake doesn't bother me that much and the diffuser will have rotala growing in front of it so that'll be hidden in no time.

As for the tubing, do you mean clear tubing or "stealth" tubing as LF calls it, like so. If you mean the second one, I'm not sure this is CO2 proof, so I'm wary of trying it...neat idea though.

I see the rock that holds your wood down and I also see the fresh cuts on the branches. How long did you soak it before you added it to the tank?

Yes yes I know, the cut in the branch. It's not really a fresh cut, more like a break. As in, I broke a piece off while taking it out of my closet Hopefully that blemish will be covered in java moss before too long.

I soaked it for a day, drained the tub, scrubbed it in bleach solution, rinsed, soaked for 2 days with a triple dose of Prime. There was also one little piece that I had to cut off, it's on the front poking low branch.


Thanks again for the encouragement.

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Back in the saddle!

I broke a piece off while taking it out of my closet

At least you didn't buy the wood on eBay for $500 .

I like the idea of having a wood fully covered in moss, as seen often in Amano tanks. But on the other hand, plain wood looks very good as well and sticks out more from the surrounding vegitation .

I guess a rule could be (who am I to make rules ) that driftwood branches surrounded by vegitation should stay blank, branches that are in the open can be covered.

Or something like that

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I guess a rule could be (who am I to make rules ) that driftwood branches surrounded by vegitation should stay blank, branches that are in the open can be covered.

Actually that makes perfect sense, and it's what i figured anyway. The tall plants will be on the right, sloping downward-ish. The branchy DW the plan is not to have it poking out of vegitation, but have the plants below it/ around it kindof, and semi-cover the branches in moss.

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Back in the saddle!

Update:

Made some plant additions yesterday. First, remember that little unknown plant that was sprouting up in the front glass? Well, turns out it was a crypt wendtii, rising from the dead I decided to get him a few friends, which are now planted on the left where the tenellus used to be. They look pretty nice with the rocks in the background.

I also added some pennywort to the left corner - probably a temporary move. Once it grows out I may leave it as a floating plant - with the idea being to leave some cover for the sparkling gourami, maybe it'll keep them up in the tank level, since the other plants in that section of the tank will be kept low.

The "make or break" plant I added is Hemianthus micranthemoides. I wasn't sure if my light levels were enough for it (everywhere I read says medium to high light...) But I thought I'd make a go of it anyway. I don't need it to stay all that low, I know I don't have the light to make it creep along the bottom, but if it grows at all and stays healthy I'm going to prune it to keep it 5-6" or so tall. I just noticed Dr. Bonke has some in his tank that's growing the way I'd like mine to (shorter actually) and he has lighting similar to mine, so that gives me some hope for now. In my tank it's planted at the base of and around the branchy driftwood (but I was careful not to put any under the DW, trying to give it max light), giving it a "green meadow" look. It's pretty neat, actually, and if I can get it to grow and stay relatively healthy I may have a nice look on that side of the tank on my hands. If that happens I'd like it to go all the way to the back of the tank, keeping that side low and completing the slope idea you guys have been mentioning. The other bit of encouraging news is that it started pearling nicely after being planted - but I guess all plants do that after being in a dark box for 24 hrs. In the mean time I'm going to stick some seachem root tabs underneath it and keep N up a little higher than normal, like tetra did with his startgrass - I've read HM isn't that great of a competitor for macros, so I'll do all i can to give it a good shot. Pics to come later tonight when I can resize.

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6,

I like my Amano Pearl Grass a lot, it grows nicely (although not flat either), not too fast, is easy to trim, and doesn't give me any trouble when I have to replant the tops (stays nicely anchored in the substrate). Good move, although now everyone will say that I copied my layout from your as I intend to use it similar than you and the good Dr.

Can't wait for the picture,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

NowherMan6,

The Hemianthus Micranthemoides is in my tank very easy to grow; even during the times when I didn't take very good care of the tank and had it completely overgrown, the Hemianthus grew like a weed. It grew upwards, not sideways, but growing it did I'm sure it'll do fine in your tank as well. When it starts growing up instead of sideways, just take out the scissors and cut away the offending sprouts

Martin

Thanks LF and Doc. That makes me feel a little better already. I'm excited to see how it grows.

Good move, although now everyone will say that I copied my layout from your as I intend to use it similar than you and the good Dr.

Meh, we're all copying from Amano somehow so it's no big deal... and he's copying from nature so.. everybody does it

But seriously, I think we're going to use it a little differently. since the left side of my tank will be kept low I envision this plant going from front to back, keeping the whole side low. Yours, as with Dr. Bonke, I would think would be put in front of other taller plants, no?

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Back in the saddle!

Yours, as with Dr. Bonke, I would think would be put in front of other taller plants, no?

I guess so, at least right now I see it somewhere in the new driftwood jungle

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It's too pretty to leave out. Such nice small leaves. Now I see why bensaf is sometimes preaching about small leaves on plants, and how it makes the aquarium look better

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Back in the saddle!

NowherMan6 is in love, how cute

Small leaved plants are nice, but I would say that larger tanks need larger leaved plants as well in order to come together.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Small leaved plants are nice, but I would say that larger tanks need larger leaved plants as well in order to come together.

Fair enough, but for those of us without 125s small leaved plants suit us much better

And even in a large tank, a amazon sword would still be a behemoth in terms of root system and the size and width of leaves. I guess it's all relative

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Now I see why bensaf is sometimes preaching about small leaves on plants

Preaching ???


Educating, my friend, educating

Can I help it if you guys are slow learners

Or maybe you just think Uncle Ben is some old duffer full of hot air who wanders around muttering stuff to himsel while looking for his mis-placed pom poms ?

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

nice looking tank Nowherman

i'm thinking of going for moss on my large piece of bogwood - i'll first see how you get on!

what is the best way to tie it down? without having it wire etc on show?

long long does it take to take hold of the bogwood?

Karl

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk

NowherMan6,

Looking nice. I can see a triangle

Shekoi - I would tie it down with a cotton string, preferrably one that is dark brown or dark green and blends in. The thread is supposed to desintigrate after a few weeks (months), but mine so hasn't done that. Also, check out this rather short thread of My 29G. Here you will be able to see all from the addition of moss to wood, through its haydays, to a recent breakdown and a new start .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK, so i said i was goign to put up pics last night, but who knew beer could taste so good watching a nice hockey game at my local?

Bottom line is, i came home a little under the weather, shall we say, so processing pcitures wasn't as high on my list of priorities as "eat leftovers" and "go to sleep"

So without further blathering, here are some pics.

NOTE: please disregard the green spot algae on the glass, haven't given it a scrub in a few weeks. I guess my phosphates are too high... or not high enough... either way, they're not juuuust right...

This first one I think gives the best shot of the left side layout with the height of the HM etc. I like it



another:



And one more, a pearling shot:

HM.jpg" border="0">

Now for a few harley shots. Most of the males were gorgeous looking, all colored up with great sheen to them:



this one's a little blurry, but you can still see the neat schooling group:





And finally, one of what I think is the dominant male, far more red than anyone else. Compare him to the first harley pic - both are males, but this guy is almost solid red.



Any comments welcome as always.


P.S. holy crapola, that green spot algae is bad!
i didn't realize it til I posted the pics so large Rest assured, a good cleaing is in order tonight

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I love them

Nice pictures NowherMan6,

I was waiting for you all night to post the pictures so I can add one of mine, but now I am at work and it would have to wait until tonight and by then the thread has probably moved on .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club