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hi upikabu and thanks,

A little amount definitely wouldn't hurt.

If anything I'm actually probably a little too overzealous in my desire to dose it. It's trying something new, and that's fun for me.

I read it helps the plants utilize the N more effectively too.

I'm sure it does... and all that together creates a balance, which makes the plants thrive. And that's all we're really after, isn't it? A balance... the right amounts of essential nutrients within a certain range that allow our plants to grow well... and the sideffect of this being limited algae growth.

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Back in the saddle!

Add the PO4. You're not getting the full benefit of the other nutrients you are adding, particularly No3, without it.

PO4 is like a turbo charger. It can really get things going. It speeds up No3 uptake, watch for faster increased pearling.

Doesn't matter what's in your tap add it anyway.

The PO4 in tap may fluctuate, test kit could be dodgy. The only way to be sure it's there is to add it yourself, cross it off the list of things to worry about.

Whether it's 2ppm or 3ppm won't make any differnce to the plants and more importantly algae. Hell they'd be happy as pigs in the proverbial muck with 0.00005 ppm of PO4, or anything else. Why would 2 or 3 ppm make a difference ?
Remember they are single cell presbyterians or was it episcopalians, anyway they're small

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

C'mon Bensaf, they are single cell Protists dammit!!!! ]:|


But seriously, that's what I was thinking anyway. There's no amount that plants can use that algae can't, so add it anyway.

I would still like to test though, just to see what my current levels are, what the tap is etc. Now if only I can find a store that sells Phosphate test kits. The island of Manhatten, home to thousands of businesses and a million people, and the only fish stores open past 7:30 is Petland Discounts ]:|]:|

"Do you have a phosphate test kit?"

"Nitrate? We have nitrate..."

"No no, phosphate..."

" :ilence::.... we have nitrate, ammonia, pH..."

Wargh. ]:|

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Uh, Hm,

I dare to slightly disagree with Bensaf.

Yeah, I buy the 2 to 3ppm theory and that this might not make much of a difference, but how about 5 or 10ppm? I don’t know.

For example, I think none of us so far has questions that too much Iron is bad (thread algae ]:|), but if algae only need tiny amounts why would additional Iron be bad?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I dare to slightly disagree with Bensaf.
Oh my G**



My Scapes

I dare to slightly disagree with Bensaf.
Oh my G**

A guy gets a couple more gold stars and look what happens


Hey, I never ever claimed to be right about anything. Anyone can disagree.......just don't make a habit out of it

Ingo has a point but c'mon who's talking about 5-10ppm ? We certainly aren't going to add that much and not many taps, if any, will have that kind of level. We add about 0.5ppm a time. No big deal even with tap that has 2-3ppm.

Iron levels getting too high can cause problems , not as far as algae that I know of, but in terms of blocking the plants uptake of other nutrients.Iron doesn't hang around long, oxidises quickly unless using a good chelating agaent.

High levels of a lot of nutrients will cause problems with plant health. But the levels are relatively high and a good bit beyond anything we are adding. Iron is probably the dodgiest, above 2ppm may cause problems.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

just don't make a habit out of it

Ok boss, will try

who's talking about 5-10ppm

Well, I am. Within only a few weeks after I set up the 125G and having dosed Phosphates, I had phosphates of 10ppm and more, but that was where my scale ended. Only not fertilizing Phosphates for almost 2 weeks made the level fall down to 1 to 2ppm again. Then I stopped measuring but started Phosphates again, in lesser amounts. And, what can I say - last weekend’s measure was 5ppm.

I know my test kit is not calibrated, but having seen all colors of the measuring spectrum I know that the kit itself basically works.

There you go .

Ingo

EDIT: initially said Plantex, but meant the corrected Phosphates

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 14-Dec-2005 07:25

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well, while I'm waiting for my plants to grow in (again) my mind has been wandering off into thinking about my fish stock. Right now I have a few ideas in mind. The one main thing right now is I think I'm going to trade in my BN. The other options are:

- add 8-10 of these http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/lemon.xml

-or, add 2-3 of these http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/profiles/bolivian.xml

-or, add a few more harlies and 1-2 rams

-or, any combination of the above

I really would like to add a new smaller schools and I really like the lemons, I'm just afraid of overstocking. Sometimes I look at my tank and I think, holy cow, there's a not of fish in there... but most times i look at I think, holy cow, that tank is empty. Plus with the density of plants I plan on maintaining i think i have a little bit of wiggle room. Out of the options above, what I would like most of all I think is:

14 harlies (already there)
4 yo-yos (already there)
8-10 lemons
1-2(?) bolivian rams

That's all to go along with healthy rotala and ludwigia of course

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Back in the saddle!

Well, sounds good to me

14 harlies - stay rather small
4 yo-yos - fine
8 lemons - stay rather small
2 bolivian rams - male and female please

But wait a while though until all is settled.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Fish stock break is over, back to the plants

New diffuser update!

Got the new glass diffuser today, put it in and i like it already. I have it set under the outflow of my HOB filter, so the bubbles get pushed around the tank pretty well. Here are some pics:


Propped up against my wallet, recently thinned from buying Christmas presents and... well... glass diffusers and the like:



A close-up of the diffuser:



And here's a shot of the whole tank (with a before pic after for comparison). Note the giant empty space on the right side where the reactor used to be... which will soon be filled in by plants:




I think it looks better...

Also started dosing phosphate this evening. I didn't test yet but to hell with it, I feel like adding it. The tank water is already starting to turn green again, I figure this can't make it any worse, and if anything po4 could be my limiting factor. [/font][/font][/font][/font]

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NowherMan6,

Yup, I agree, it looks a lot better .

Where do all the bubbles in the tank come from? Did you just do a water change is that all from the diffuser?

Also, I noticed this already on the last picture, you always have quite a bit of debris sticking to your filter intake. Do you loose plant mass that quickly? What is the reason behind having the filter intake only half way down the tank? Wouldn’t that increase the chance of stale areas close to the bottom?

I wonder how quickly the diffuser gets “dirty” now and what has to be done to clean it. If this is all not a problem then I might just give it a try (I would need 2 and would have to split the CO2 line).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I wonder how quickly the diffuser gets “dirty” now and what has to be done to clean it.

No seriously why do I bother ?

http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/66955.html?200512100533


Clean them every 2 weeks.Even if you think they don't need it. Just drop in a 50% bleach solution for 10 minutes. Rinse. Soak in tap water with some anti chlorine conditioner for another 10 mins and it's good as new. Actually mine worked even better when i first did this. Couldn't be easier.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks LF,

Where do all the bubbles in the tank come from? Did you just do a water change is that all from the diffuser?

It's all from the diffuser. However, i have to add that this pic was taken right after start-up of the diffuser. The bubbles flying around the tank eventually cleared and now the tank looks like normal. I'm not sure why it happened that way, but after a few minutes of running things didnt look so bubbly anymore. Plus, when plants grow in mroe I plan on having them semi- cover the diffuser, as Bensaf suggested. Hopefully that'll keep the bubbles down and allow them mor etime to absorb into the water.

Also, I noticed this already on the last picture, you always have quite a bit of debris sticking to your filter intake. Do you loose plant mass that quickly

I'm not sure if I lose it that quickly. I'm sure a lot of that was excess leaves floating around from when i did the blackout that I hadn't pciked off yet (the first pic I mean). In the most recent one, I'm not sure why. The plants look healthy enough, they're not shedding leaves. it may just be leaf litter that i missed after pruning etc.

What is the reason behind having the filter intake only half way down the tank? Wouldn’t that increase the chance of stale areas close to the bottom?

Errr, because I never thought to put it any lower Actually, the filter didn't come with an extender to get it down lower, I suppose i should look for one. I haven't noticed any dead areas on that side of the tank. If anything that side gets more movement than anywhere else because of the outflow.

As i said earlier, I dosed po4 yesterday and thios morning I swear my hygro looks bigger. Wishful thinking? Maybe...

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Back in the saddle!

Nowher, I might have missed this. I know Bensaf said one of the suppliers is aquaticeco I believe. Is that where you purchased the diffusor?

My Scapes

I know Bensaf said one of the suppliers is aquaticeco I believe. Is that where you purchased the diffusor?

That was Tom. Aquaticeco has the Sweetwater airstones, I don't think they have diffusers.

Drs.Fosters and Smith have them, Aquabotanic is having a sale on them but I don't think they have the stock yet.

Nowhere what brand of diffuser is that? Don't recognise it.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Actually just checked the site aquaticeco has this:



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

and the Drs has this:



tetratech attached this image:


My Scapes

Got the diffuser from Aquaticeco. It's actually different than the one in the pic, but frankly i dont care. I saw more pearling today than ive ever seen, which suggests better absorbtion of the CO2 to me. It seems to be working really well, helix or not. In mine it looks like theres a little chamber where the CO2 pops out, then it narrows down, the goes into the bell and then through the disc

I originally ordered from aquatic-store but I received a nice email from I think mark is his name, saying they were basically flooded with orders and some stuff was on back order until after the holiday. Nice people there, I'd order from them again.

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Back in the saddle!

. I saw more pearling today than ive ever seen, which suggests better absorbtion of the CO2 to me. It seems to be working really well, helix or not.

The aquatieco diffuser is the same one I'm using. I don't think the designs make much difference. It all comes down to how well the ceramic disc works. They are probably all buying their components from the same place anyway.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Are you guys using the 3" or the 6". Does size matter


My Scapes

Does size matter

Let's just say, 3" is enough to please your plants.


And again re: the pearling. It is REAL pearling by the way. When i came home tonight the first thing I noticed was, holy crap, my hornwort is covered in bubbles! I figured that could be just the bubbles coving the plant, so I looked at the others.... then I noticed some of the leaves of my bacopa looked like the disk of the diffuser with bubbles coming out... and that's when i knew it must be doing a pretty OK job...

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Glad it's working for you Nowher. I think on a bigger tank might need the 6" one.

What's the status on the clarity?

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Well, it's still got a little cloudiness to be sure, but I figure that wont go away until I get some plant mass. I had to trim the bacopa tonight, the bottoms were rotting and every one of the old leaves was falling apart and breaking down, probably releasing some level of ammonia and making things not as good as they could be in the tank. Here's a shot of the tank as of tonight. I figure I wont get any clarity until the plants start to reach the redline. Without that old reactor everything looks so low and empty. Kinda pathetic looking really.

And if it looks like I'm overloading the right side then you're right, but it's because i have plans for over there. I have a nice branchy piece of DW on its way to me that's going on the left side. I plan on planting around it with the ludwigia and some wisteria when it grows in. Not sure what to do with the corkscrew vals, I'll see how well they grow.



NowherMan6 attached this image:

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Let's try the image again:



NowherMan6 attached this image:

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I don't think the different sizes make much, if any, difference. Whatever size you are you using the amount of Co2 being in injected is the same, and the discs are the same diameter in all of them. Can't see how a few inches taller makes any difference, the amount of bubbles coming out the top will be same on each one.I think that they are working on the theory of the Co2 staying in contact longer in the taller versions, but with the design of these diffusers (the water IN the diffuser is sealed from the rest of the tank) that would be a very very negligible difference.

Over here they had Sm, Med or Lge - I went for the medium.

Glad to see it working out. One of the things going around the forums was that what people were seeing was not real pearling but just the bubbles sticking on the leaves. This was usually said by somebody who had not tried it.

I think anybody who's had decent experience with plants can tell the difference between pearling and stuck bubbles. You can see a quite noticable difference in the plants.

I do believe the Co2 gas coming into direct contact with the plant it is easier for the plant to process the CO2 meaning faster more intense pearling.

Make sure the nutrient levels don't drop too low. Better growth = more uptake. I've had rotten bottoms on Bacopa when No3 was low. I doubt it's light.



Last edited by bensaf at 16-Dec-2005 22:29

Last edited by sirbooks at 18-Dec-2005 20:13

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks for the advice on the bacopa. I don't think it had anything to do with the water, I think it was just a matter of these being the original stems that were grown emersed rotting from the change in conditions. I clipped off from where the new under water growth started, so however it grows in from here forward should give me a better idea if anything is lacking.

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NowherMan6,

So if your plants are bubbling now more, wouldn’t that have to mean that your CO2 concentration is higher and as such your ph lower? Did you measure this by any chance? I am curious about the results.

As for height, I really like my Apons (crispus) and they have reached a good 20 inches in just 3 weeks. Also the cyperus helferi could be good, but mine have not grown at all in 2 weeks (supposedly need a long time to settle in).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You are correct sir, nit did lower. It had been 6.6, now it is 6.4, maybe a tiny bit lower. But then again who knows how accurate these tests are. Nevertheless, that would put concentration at a little over 30ppm. On the high side, but fish show no signs of stress so Im OK with it.

As for plant hight, I didnt really mean, I want a tall plant, I just meant it in the sense that until the stem plants grow and really start to suck up nutrients, thus building up plant mass, I'll probably have cloudy/ green water problems. Apon. crispus Ive seen before, lovely plant, I wouldnt know how to work it into my aquascape though

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I do believe the Co2 gas coming into direct contact with the plant it is easier for the plant to process the CO2 meaning faster more intense pearling.
I'm not saying I don't agree with you, because you have been right on so many times, but I just need to understand. Tiny bubbles are being basically absorbed by the plants quicker or easier than co2 saturated water.

To be honest, I'm going to try a glass diffusor, although right now with my co2 going into my canister I had to adjust my regulator because I was getting to much co2 from the setting I had it on when I was using the hagen ladder (no surprise there), but my point is my ph is between 6.2 and 6.3 and kh is between 2.5 and 3, so that gives me a co2 range between 38 and 57. Let's face it you really don't know the real number, but it's certainly high enough and the fish don't have a problem with it. So if this water is so saturated wouldn't the plants just absorb it assuming adequate flow.



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That’s what I would think tetratech. Saturated water should be at least as efficient as tiny bubbles, if not even more. Hm, interesting problem.

I might try the diffuser someday (as I would need 2 which makes it more complicated), right now my CO2 is right were I want it to be. Why switch to a new method if the old one works well?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

With Co2 saturated water the plant has to strip away molecules or enzymes or some such thing to actaully get to the carbon.
With the gas bubbles you got 100% carbon hitting the leaves, nothing to be stripped away. Faster more efficient carbon access for the plant.

That's the theory anyway.

Why switch to a new method if the old one works well?

I totally agree.

Much as I like the glass diffusers remember the reason I changed was because I was not happy with my reactors.
So certainly if your current sytems works and you like it there's no need to change.
If you feel the diffussers can give a better performance,even if only in reducing the amount of in tank equipment, then yes they're worth trying.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Well O.K, I could buy into that theory. One thing I must admit on my tank is I know my co2 is high as mentioned (38 to 57), but I don't see as much pearling as I did with my current method as I did when I had my little ladder.

So there must be a difference between saturated water with a co2 of about 40ppm and water with tiny co2 bubbles at 30ppm.



My Scapes

This one's $14.99 US at AquaBuys. Actually it might be the same as the one from Foster & Smith.


tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 18-Dec-2005 14:51[/font]

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Why switch to a new method if the old one works well?

I agree as well. To be honest, the main reason i did it was for aesthetics. I just didnt like the pay that big reactor looked inside the tank. It took up a ton of room as well, which in a smaller tank like mine, room comes at a premium. I realize now that that reactor was also breaking up the aquascape, just a big distraction. I could have gone with an outside reactor, but those are expensive. For a considerable amount less this little glass beauty hangs low on the inside glass and does a great job saturating the water. I'm happy.

Also got a phosphate test kit - after dosing twice over the past few days, my phosphates are between .5 and 1ppm. I think I'll try to stick with this level for now. GW has gotten worse, but plants also seem to be growing better too. Same pattern as last time. Come on plants, grow! No way I'm doing another blackout ]:|

Also saw some nice ludwigia repens at the LFS, picked upa few bunches.

Last edited by nowherman6 at 18-Dec-2005 19:12

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A few more thoughts regarding the green water I'm experiencing. Something HAS to be limiting here. Tom barr said that 90% of algae problems come from low CO2 or low nitrate. My CO2 I think it alright, yesterday I measured nitrate and it came up as about 10ppm, maybe a little over. So that's low, I'll need to bump that up a good bit... but then i was reading around today and read that potassium can also be a limiting factor that leads to GW. The basic agreement between a few people on the Krib (I know, old info but worth considering) was that when N or K is the limiting dactor, GW results - when P is limiting it will not happen. Anyone know why this would be true? All three are macros, any reason why 2 would be more important than the other?

I've also come to the conclusion that I need to start dosing K as well because apparently what the plants are getting from the KNO3 isn't enough.

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NowherMan6,

I would assume that your problem is more of K than of N, if any of these should be the problem in the first place.

EI does not state that the N has to be 20ppm. It states that even with only little (or none-I don’t remember) uptake by the plants (and let’s forget about fish for now) there will be never more than 20ppm when one does a 50% water change weekly. With a healthy uptake, these values will be even lower.

EDIT: There is less K in KNO3 than there is N, when expressed in ppm in the tank, so maybe adding a little will help.

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 19-Dec-2005 14:37

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nope, never added K2SO4 or the like. I thought i was giving them enough with the KNO3.

See, I always thought that, on a scale of say 5-25, it was better to have nitrates on the higher side of things rather than the lower, thus allowing more N to be available for plant useage. Are you saying that even dosing 3X per week, nitrates should wind up being under 10ppm because of uptake?

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No, that is not what I am saying.

I would say though that if you have a heavy plant load (which you don’t) plants uptake could be so large that, depending on how much is dosed, values are clearly below 10ppm.

I guess we should go back and study the [link=EI Report]http://www.barrreport.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] again:

One thing it says is “Some Typical uptake rates at high light and CO2 levels per day (24 hours): NO3 1-4ppm”

Further it says: “I truthfully do not know what levels of NO3 and PO4 (for example) cause problems for plants or induce algae in a fully planted tank”

And for his sample tank, he says “If you assume that NONE of it is used up, you can build up a maximum of 20 PPM” and “If you assume that 75%of it is used up, you can build up a maximum of 11.4 PPM”

So I take from that that 10ppm is ok when in between dosing and not as a max.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,

I got GW and was dosing NP and K. We are really talking about plant growth and not ferts. Unless something bottomed out and stalled growth I think your probably wasting time trying to balance everything.

Why don't you try floating a bunch of hungry plants in the tank. When you trim leave the plants floating this might tip the balance in favor of more uptake of nh3. When my GW cleared it was from increased mass/growth. The willow branches are the same concept, exceptional uptake.



My Scapes

We are really talking about plant growth and not ferts

I know, but aren't the two linked pretty closely? I mean, without the right ferts won't plant growth be slowed to a certain degree. All I'm trying to do is get them growing at an optimal rate, considering my light and CO2. Wargh, maybe I'm just reading too much. Maybe i just need to wait.

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Yes, they are of course related, but if your dosing kno3 (which type - stump remover, sorry forgot) I don't think your going to run out, especially with the current mass you have. When things get bigger and fuller than you might have to add more to keep up with demand (yes, supply and demand works here too). According to the FERTILATOR I get a 6 to 4 ratio of n to k, by just dosing no3, plus there's some in flourish and po4.

Last edited by tetratech at 19-Dec-2005 16:55

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The lazy guy I am,

What are you dosing for micros again?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Me? I'm dosing Flourish trace and Kent Botanica "Grow", which I don't really care for. Every other day, on opposite days from the macros.

BTW, I took a ride out to Absolutely Fish yesterday. Very nice store, beats the pants off everything by me Only bad part was, I went in there looking for java moss, they had a whole tank full of it, but it was labeled "not for sale" ]:|

Also, rt. 46 has to be the worst road in NJ, I missed the store at first and wound up on a 25 minute detour just trying to find a U-turn. ]:|]:|]:|

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NowherMan6,

glad you found the store in the end anyways. Was the moss in one of the isles with fish or in the plant tanks. The fish isle sometimes has some moss that they use for shy fish that wouldn’t do well in a “plastic” shop environment. I saw once a tank there with moss and German Rams.

In general, I haven’t seen any moss there for sale as long as I can remember. I asked about it one day and was informed that they used to order it but that it was all brown and dead when it arrived, so they stopped ordering.

Rt 46 is great, isn’t it? Well, we locals have our ways to avoid 25 min detours .

Did you end up buying anything?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Didn't wind up getting anything, this was more of a scouting mission to check the place out. The moss was in a fish isle tank, I figured it was for fry or something. No big deal, there's always aquabid. I also fell in love with thread-fin rainbows. GORGEOUS little fish. Wish i had a tank for them (no MTS, bad MTS, down, DOWN!... ok, I'm OK now...)

Other than that I went in to just see what they carried in terms of equipment etc. I'm looking for small tanks right now, in the 6-8 gallon range. It's top secret right now, but all i can say is, keep an eye out for another planted aquascaping log some time after the new year, possibly in the Tangs forum

Oh, and rt. 46 is indeed the worst road in NJ. I used to reserve that honor for the Polaski skyway, but no more. Grrr, you sububanites and your back country roads...

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 20-Dec-2005 10:02

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It requires a good driver to manage these roads out in the woods.



But hey - I would like to point out that I started a thread inquiring about Nano tanks a few weeks ago, but that is also still top secret (as I am moving really slow these days when it does not concern my 125).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

yes I remember that - was supposed to be a christmas present, no?


....


... ah hell, i can't keep a secret. I'm going to have some tank turnover. My ten gallon with my brevis pair will be torn down and cleaned. The brevis will have a new home in a 5-8 gallon tank, which will be planted with vals/ anubias.

Then I'm going to have a real planted nano with my 2.5 (or possibly a 3, they're cheap enough) gallon, probably going to stock it with a few of either Boraras maculatus]http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/speciesSummary.php?ID=10879&genusname=Boraras&speciesname=maculatus[/link] or [link=Boraras merah if I can find them...

of course, this is all in addition to the goings on in the 46, which is now once again soupy green, but the plants seem to be doing well.
]:|

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 20-Dec-2005 12:17

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I like that little guy. It kinda looks like a cross between a wild guppy and a killie, but nicer.

Sorry to hear bout the soup. Try throwing alot of plant mass in it, floating it and I can ship willow branches in time for the holidays.



My Scapes

NowherMan6,

Nice going

Let me know when you think that you found a 3G tank that you seem suitable for your Nano.

I have to many specifics that I would like and no standard tank seems to have them.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Try throwing alot of plant mass in it, floating it and I can ship willow branches in time for the holidays.

I've currently got every piece of hornwort I have working round the clock to fight this menace. I've seen this work before in my tank, it's just a matter of time... but I don't know the exact amount of plant mass it takes to effectively fight GW. Before I re-did my tank at one point I was having GW problems. At that time the tank was only swords, crypts and anubias, nothing fast growing. Then on a whim I added some hornwort and anacharis and the tank cleared up over night, it was amazing how fast the GW vanished. It's no doubt a plant mass question...


LF, right now I'm having a very difficult time finding small tanks that don't come with some stupid gigantic ugly hood attached to them. Everything seems to be "with light, filter, fish feeder, satellite radio, mp3 player and personal assistant included in the hood!" ]:|

If anyone knows where to find just a basic 3-8 gallon tank, all glass without lining or anything I'd appreciate a heads up...

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I actually have a 5 gallon aga bowfront setting in my gargage. Let's have a nano fiesta. :%).

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Yeah,

I am considering throwing out the 125G and getting 125/5 = 25 5G Nanos instead

I think, but I am not sure about this, AGA is also making the basic rectangular 5G tank.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, AGA makes the 5, but it still has that black rim on it, I want something clean, for that open top effect.

Anyway, I'm still dealing with the GW. I've recently added a few more bunches of hornwort and elodea, they're floating right now. All other plants are doing well, from what I can see through the haze.

The GW is perplexing me, and I can't seem to find any good info about it on the internet. Everything I read says that GW is caused by excess light and excess nitrates. However, I've been running my 2.5 gallon as an experimental tank, trying my hardest to get green water. It's got a few floating pieces of hornwort and elodea, and 2 anubias nana. I've been dosing nitrate and phosphate every other day, but only at a slightly smaller amount than in the 46. tests show nitrate at 60ppm, phosphate are HIGH, very high. I also have 9 watts PC lighting on for 14 hours per day. So far the only algae I have to show for it is some brown algae on the anubias leaves. The hornwort is clean. Water is clear as a church bell. If high nitrate and phosphate caused green water, or the myriad of other algaes we see, you'd think I'd at least see some indications of them, but so far I've got nothing. No CO2 either, no water changes. It's been going like this for over a week now. I know what's been said about ammonia and light causing GW, but I wanted to see for myself.

Is there any reason this shouldn't confirm to me once and for all that high nitrate and phosphate DO NOT cause algae? I dont know, maybe there are other circumstances. And please PLEASE note, I in know way want to pass this off as science, or as a scientific experiement, just wanted to try it out. Any thoughts?



Last edited by NowherMan6 at 22-Dec-2005 11:23

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Nowher,

I think a week is so fast. Did you put any biofilter in the tank? I think if there's any waste in the tank you will start seeing lots of algae in week 2 and 3.

BTW- My 12 gallon open-top is an eclipse tank that I took the black trim off the top, so it's completely rimless.

These really nice tanks you see online open-top are custom-made tanks and many are made with a special type of glass that doesn't have any green tint to it.



My Scapes

... a week is so fast. Did you put any biofilter in the tank?

Yes, this used to be my betta tank, it was cycled with old filter media. Maybe you're right, maybe it needs more time. I'd like to see what happens, and more specifically I'd like to see if I get GW with this. Right now there's no ammonia in the water, which I guess is part of the point of the experiment - to see if limiting nh3 keeps GW away.


I'll have to look into removing the hoods ont hese tanks, sounds interesting...

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Back in the saddle!

I found the perfect cube for rimless open Nano tanks, but I don’t think we can get our hands on [link=This]http://www.tropica.com/go.asp?article=577" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link].

To the 2.5G test tank. I am no expert (as we all know ) but I think 9w on 2.5G is not considered excess light. Too much gets lost through the glass etc. I know Amano uses over 3W per liter for the very small tanks. So that would be almost 3 times the amount you use currently.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes you are right LF, that IMO is lowlight. The intensity is simply not strong enough to do much even on a 2.5g.

My son has a 1g better tank and I have a 20w desk lamp over the tank. The tank has a cover with a quarter size hole in the top and the tank get's algae. Nothing is added to the water except conditioner.

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Dec-2005 11:39

My Scapes

To the 2.5G test tank. I am no expert (as we all know ) but I think 9w on 2.5G is not considered excess light

yeah, I know, the WPG rule doesnt apply to small tanks, but I was thinking more in terms of duration than strict intensity. 14 hrs is a conservative estimate, what normally happens is, wake up in the morning, turn the lights on, go to sleep, lights off. 16 hours may be more realistic. As I said, I'm not really going for scientific here, I just want to see what happens, just a little experiment

And LF, I actually looked at that link from the tropica website, but:

1.) Doesnt give any buying instructions
2.) Looks too small, and i dont like that "all in one substrate and plants" set-up. Where the fun in that ??

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LF, those are nice little tanks. They do list dealers in the US and they have advertised in TFH.

My Scapes

NowherMan6,

If we could get it then:

- Buy the tank
- Throw out all the silly stuff
- Plant as desired



But, to my knowledge, Tropica does not sell to the US. That’s why I said we can’t get our hands on it .

And too small, hey it is a Nano, not some pseudo Nano

Ingo

EDIT: didn't see your entry tetratech. They have dealers for tanks in the US? LINK please

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 22-Dec-2005 11:44

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

http://www.tropica.com/dealers_list.asp?countrycode=US&continentname=America

Not sure if this is a retail/wholesale

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Dec-2005 11:51

Edit: You might be right, they are a tropica dealer, but probably not for the nanos

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Dec-2005 11:55

My Scapes

I have only ever seen Troica ferts/books in the U.S. I do not belive they ship anything else to us.

also Nowhereman those fish you picked are gorgeous best of luck finding them ^_^

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 22-Dec-2005 11:53

Yeah tetratech,

That doesn’t look good

[link=Two Little Fishies]http://www.twolittlefishies.com/tlf_home.html?lang_id=1" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] doesn’t sell any tanks at all.

Dave Gomberg - JCF Systems has the remark “Tropica Book Only”

Doesn’t look good to me.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I bet you could walk around some nonfish-related stores and find something nice for a nano. It's open-top and there are alot of lights etc (clip-on's, desklaps that migh work well (and it will cost you very little)




My Scapes

hey Megil, haven't seen you around in a while, where you been?

I know where to find the boraras maculatas, the other may take some work. The kind of look a little like endlers, eh? And the reason i want something bigger than a peanut butter jar for my nano, LF, is to be able to keep some sort of pretty little rasbora with the plants.


Ah, maybe you guys are right about the light. Back to the drawing board...::roll eyes:: On second though,maybe I'll stick it near a window (indirect sun, no place in my apartment gets direct sunlight) and see what happens. Hopefully THAT'LL be enough light. ]:|

and according to that website, "TROPICA PLANTS
ARE NOT AWAILABLE IN UNITED STATES BECAUSE OF AGRICULTURAL REGULATIONS" What about Tropica glass jars???

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Back in the saddle!

This look's like a knock off.

http://www.taiwantrade.com.tw/cgi-bin/bv60/TWTRADE/CATALOG/catalog_eng_product_detail_win.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0635085583.1135274974@@@@&BV_EngineID=cccgaddgifgkkgdcgehcekkdhgfdfnm.0&prod_id=63882%3a3297480240&CataOid=404850

This is the one advertised in TFH.

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Dec-2005 12:22

Second thought - This is a good DIY project. Make the ]:|]:| tank yourself

Last edited by tetratech at 22-Dec-2005 12:24

My Scapes

Yeah tetratech,

I refer to the last one you mentioned and a few other in my [link=Nano Tank Thread]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Planted%20Aquaria/66877.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link].

It is pretty far down on the page.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yep, I missed that the first time.



My Scapes

I have been around, reading the forums, bit quiet. Also it is the holidays so I have been spending much time with family and friends.

Those second boraras do indeed look like endlers. only much, much better.

Also have you considered Aquavases if you want that nano tank look? http://www.petmeister.com/item2688.htm
Capacity is small though Maybe it is time for DIY lol

You can also consider ordering a cube from Glasscages

Here

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 22-Dec-2005 12:45

Yo could also buy the 5g aga bowfront. Take all the trim off and throw everything in the garbage except for the filter. The 5 gallon is $35 at bigals and 2.5g is $20.

http://www.bigalsonline.com/catalog/product.xml?product_id=27139&category_id=3217&pcid1=2253

My Scapes

Well, I'm busy at work trying to finish a bunch of stuff up before vacation so i don't have too much time, but I just wanted to wish everyone a Merry Christmas (if that's your thing), and Happy Holidays otherwise. I'll be out of touch for the next two or three days, shopping, cooking, wrapping presents, cleaning, drinking miller lite and blackberry brandy, watching football and other Christmas whatnot so I won't be on here for a while. All the best to you and your families!


p.s. One final planty thing: attached below is a pic of a piece of driftwood I picked up to add to the left side of the tank. The tall branchy part will face towards the middle, and I'm imagining java moss creeping along certain parts, with ludwigia repens coming up to the center part of the branch, covering the bottom part. In total it's about 18 inches high, so perfect for my tank, will add some nice height. Will hopefully get to it next week.

- Rich



NowherMan6 attached this image:


Last edited by NowherMan6 at 23-Dec-2005 13:19[/font]

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 23-Dec-2005 13:19

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blackberry brandy, watching football and other Christmas whatnot
Sounds like Heaven [img src='/images/forums/halo.gif' border=0]
Happy Holidays to you and your family!

That's a nice piece, did you find that or purchase it?



My Scapes

Purchased it... in a Petland discounts, no less! It's a true Christmas miracle!

I was shocked they had anything worth while. It's probably meant for reptiles, but it's definetely not soft wood, not pine. Proper treatment is in order, of course, but hey, I can't complain.

Sto lat!

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 23-Dec-2005 13:40

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It's a true Christmas miracle
Don't you mean Festivas (If your a seinfeld fan)

By the color, probably for reptiles. Do you know if it sinks? You might have to weigh that down somehow.

You never know, I got my ram at Petco. I don't know which is lower.

Last edited by tetratech at 23-Dec-2005 14:23

My Scapes

Wow,

Now, I have driftwod envy ]:|]:|

And I am with you guys, these stores sometimes have good stuff. I got my 2 Gold Twin Bar Platies there, and no Ich.

NowherMan6, merry Xmas to you too . I will be online until tomorrow and then the kids present madness will start .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

*thread Hijack*

Sorry can't help but further Ingo's driftwood envy. Here is a a composition I have had set aside for my 75G.

It is composed of three pieces and is around 3ft in length and about 12" tall. Just haven't found rock which will work for a nice foundation.






alright we can get back on topic now

^_^
Megil
[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 23-Dec-2005 19:41

Hey everyone

Brief update: I've started a thread here

If anyone has any opinions please let me know. Wargh. Hope your holidays were less green than mine ]:|

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Back in the saddle!

I bet you that very soon a lot of people here will run a UV Sterilizer.

Just like the glass diffuser craze that happened just recently .

Glad you made it through the Holidays anyway

Ingo



Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 27-Dec-2005 13:07

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just like the glass diffuser craze that happened just recently

True enough, but that was a matter of aesthetics, this is actually practical.

I went ahead and bought and set-up a UV sterilizer. It's 9 watts and my tank is smallish, so hopefully it'll do the job fairly quickly. I found one originally (the same as tetras) at a local chain store that I went ahead and bought, but luckily I checked the thing in the car before leaving, because not only was it missing the UV bulb, the electronics looked all rusted and gross... it was obviously used and returned, then resold as new. Rubbish. Needless to say I returned it and found a good one elsewhere. The moral of the story is, always check the box before buying.

Aaaaanyway, the way I set it up isnt ideal, but it'll do for now, at least until the water clears and I can set it up mroe permanantly. Right now I have a powerhead pumping water into the unit, then the return hose goes right back to the aquarium. Everything is connected with short lengths of hose (I didnt get enough tubing ]:|) Later I'll reconnect it and mount the unit on the inside of my stand/ cabinet, but for now it's just sitting on my desk. Simple and ugly I would post pics but there really is nothing to see, the water is so green there's nothing to look at.

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Back in the saddle!

I will keep my fingers crossed that it will work quickly

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nowher,

Welcome to the wonderful world of UV Sterlization.

After the water clears don't forget to clean the filter pad. If your concerned that it might unchelate FE you could run it at nite only after the tank clears. That's what I'm doing now.



My Scapes

Welcome to the wonderful world of UV Sterlization

Just make sure that you don't stand too close to the light

]]]

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes, we planted tank owners like to live on the edge: we keep large tanks full of highly pressurized CO2, ready to explode; we keep devices that emit harmful cancer causing UV rays in plain view... nope, we're definetly not nerds...

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Back in the saddle!

My thoughts were more geared towards the Sterilization than the cancer though.



Who is a nerd ?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 30-Dec-2005 11:36

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Don't look now, but there's another guru in the house:%)

BTW - I'm no nerd, I bowl in a mens league (tough group), coach soccer and play softball. I just happen to be a fish guru as well.





Last edited by tetratech at 30-Dec-2005 12:21

My Scapes

Ha, I didn't even notice

And no Tetratech, you are not a nerd ]

It's just the rest of us that are a little, how shall I say, off

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

UV update:

Been away for a few days, family, new years eve party, hangover etc. Here's a shot from Thursday compared to what I came home to today:




There's clearly a difference, and the tank is less green and more see through - however, it has definetely taken on a whiteish cloudy appearance. Im guessing this is just dead algae still in the water, but can anyone recommend a good bit of mechanical filtration to get it out of there?

[/font][/font]

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Yes, nowhere it's working. Mine did the same thing. How fast do you think the flow rate is. Anyway I didn't do anything but change my filter pad a few times just keep rinsing it. You could use a clumping agent like Hagen's P-Clear to help clump it so the filter could get it. The Hagen product was very effective. Within a few hours the water was really clear and with your UV it should stay that way.


Last edited by tetratech at 02-Jan-2006 17:58

My Scapes

Filter floss, the kind made for aquatic use, add a handful to the filter and keep changing it. Then the biological filter won't be disturbed. Changing the sponge too often may cause a mini-cycle. I wouldn't chance it. Once I siphoned water through a filter bag filled with the floss then just put the water back in the tank(2G). It cleared out quite a bit of the stuff. Took a bit of time but the end result was less gw.

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
-Family Circus

NowherMan6,

What a nightmare, I should stop complaining about the few Thread algae strings that I have in the tank. At least I can see something.

I really hope that your plants get enough light in there. It would be a bummer if you have to regrow them once again.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Actually the plants are growing very well. I haven't stopped dosing any ferts during the GW because that would do no good. My rotala has fully come back, and the ludwigia has grown nicely. The tenellus is putting out tons of runners (but needs some pruning) and the hygro is reaching the surface. I cant see the bacopa but I'm sure that's doing well too

Seriously, this has been a nitemare but I'm happy I didn't kill the plants to spite the algae like last time ::roll eyes::

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Back in the saddle!

Definitely a good move with the UV. In a few days your tank should be pretty much clear and then it will be clearer than ever even when looking through the side.

I fact that it can kill parasites and other bacteria is an added bonus.

I also notice that the fish and plant colors look a little crisper because of the clear water. When my tank is filled all the way up and there's no surface agitation you really can't tell there is water in the tank.

My Scapes

NowherMan6,

Glad to hear that your plants don't seem to care about the GW at all .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Clearing continues. I didn't get a full tank shot, but after a waterchange last night i took some shots of the rotala:



the the ludwigia from overhead:



As you can see the water is still cloudy, but definetely a lot clearer than even two days ago. For the first time I was able to see all the way to the back of the tank. It's amazing, the bacopa has doubled in size since i trimmed it about two weeks ago, as has the rotala and the ludwigia. The right side of my tank is now dense and thick with plants, it's really cool looking, like I imagined it after doing the re-do.

That said, i realize that I have some rearranging to do. Basically, the rotala is coming in greener than I thought, and the ludwigia redder than I thought, so basically there's a this huge green mass on the right side, and a big puff of reddish green on the left, so it looks off balance. I'm going to have to switch some around, but they're all growing very well. It's not quite time for a full tank shot yet, a few more days of clearing and I'll put a few up


And now, a game! It's called, guess what kind of plant this is! A few weeks ago I noticed this little green bit under the gravel, pushed right up against the glass. Eventually I thought it would just go away or die, but I let it go for a little while and sure enough it started to grow. Recently it finally poked a leaf above the gravel and I'm not sure what it is. It may be a hygro leaf, I don't know. What do you all think?
(Also, note the green spot algae on the glass right near the gravel line... bensaf, is not alone )


[/font][/font][/font]

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Very nice photos, NowherMan6

note the green spot algae on the glass right near the gravel line

I noticed the dried water drops on the outside of the glass

I have no idea what plant this little baby might become one day . It is always fun to watch something grow and slowly close in on its identification. Rather often than not it takes a while though until at least a few leaves and the stem are visible, right now it could be almost any plant .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

the rotala is coming in greener than I thought,
This is where it's hard to be all things to everything in your tank. From what I understand the rotala will be red if your no3 is lean and of course if you add enough FE, but some plants like the high no3 (like my stargrass) so I have both. You might have to add alot of FE to get it more red. What are you adding now?

My Scapes

I noticed the dried water drops on the outside of the glass

Well, we can sit here all day and point fingers but... I can't, because I have to go clean my glass...


tetra, thanks for the info, I didn't know lean N would make them turn reddish. But like you I think I have a similar problem, a few of the older leaves on my hyro are developing little holes, which I understand means low N? Or am I wrong on that?

In any case i see what you mean... which is why I think I'll just move some of the rotala and ludwigia around to add some contrast.

Right now I'm dosing:

1/4 tsp KNO3 every other day
1/16-1/8 K2SO4
1ml phosphate about once a week

fourish on off days from the macros

I actually have a little bottle of flourish iron from when i had swords in the tank, but last time I used that I was promptly treated to a 3 month out break of staghorn algae in the gravel bed. ]:|]:|

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Back in the saddle!

older leaves on my hyro are developing little holes, which I understand means low N? Or am I wrong on that?
I believe some holes is a potassium deficiency. I think low no3 would bring yellowish and stunting.

EDIT: I just looked again at your po4 dosing are you doing 1ml once a week. That's a big hit. Even if it's only once a week it's still about 1 to 3 with your no3 dosing that should be more like 1 to 10.

Last edited by tetratech at 05-Jan-2006 10:57

My Scapes

Older leaves having holes means low K, not N

Now that you know that go back to cleaning the glass (good joke, I love it) .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for the clarification on the leaf holes fellas.

See, I thought that was a lot of PO4 too, but I wasn't thinking in terms of ratios. Whenever I test (I know, it could be unreliable) it never comes up more than 1ppm, so it's not exactly high. Maybe that just means my N is still low?

Where's tetras test calibration method again? He never reminds us of how useful that test can be...







And my glass is perfectly clean, it's just that one spot, I swear!


And if you don't believe that, I was working on the tank last night and I forgot to clean the glass after some spillage!


And if you don't believe that... well... I don't clean the glass as much as I should... happy?

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 05-Jan-2006 12:58

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Back in the saddle!

I am actually starting to get some holes in my Giant Hygro. I had this problem back when it was in my 20 gallon set up. Once I got it in my 40 gallon they went away. Maybe it is time to break down and start dosing!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

NowherMan6,

What is the latest on the GW? You haven't added an update in over 2 days.

Is it gone?

Ingo

Last edited by LITTLE_FISH at 08-Jan-2006 05:59

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Whoops, guess I haven't updated in a few days. I've actually been away in sunny LAWN-GUY-LAND visiting family.

I've been working on pulling some old pics together because i want to put them together in a montage. Of all the logs going on right now, I think I have one of, if not the oldest tank going (not in current form, but in existence period) and it's gone through so many changes. Here is is!

















and finally, today:

[/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]

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Back in the saddle!

The rotala tops have turned this magnificent bright reddish color, really beautiful. Here are some shots of the rotala with harlies:






And one unwelcome sight - some little tufts of green hair algae on the driftwood... though it actually looks kind of nice:

[/font][/font][/font]

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NowherMan6,

Nice montage of tank over period of time, and quite a few very green pictures in between. I didn’t know you had GW before you started this log. Your tank sure went through some major changes over time. From the last picture in the second last post I see that it is getting better now but it is still there. As long as the fish are happy and the plants are growing it can take all the time it want to clear up.

Yeah, your hair algae does look good, almost like a miniature version of a moss. Maybe you can market it. How long did it take to reach that size and does it spread?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yes the cloudiness is still there, but it's definetely going away. And the plants are more than happy it seems - CO2 is pushing, I'm still dosing macros and micros, there's no reason for them to NOT be happy

It's funny you made the comparison of the haur algae to moss because I just ordered a few different kinds of moss from aquabid: java, erect and mini moss. I want to experiment with them, plus I'm going to use them a good deal in my little 7 gal. in the works.

As for this tank, I have more work to do on it as well. I don't like the symetrical tenellus set-up, with front row split between left and right. I think I'm going to thin it out or remove it from the left, maybe have it sporadically in the center region, and keep it on the right in front of the DW. I'm also going to move those rocks around and push them back where I'm adding that large branchy piece of DW. Finally, the vals are going to go, the make no impact at all and I think they'll be better suited to the little tank. The hygro is up in the air, dunno if I'll keep it.

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Back in the saddle!

That algae does actually look good on the dw, sometimes you get lucky.

I'm glad the tank is clearing. Your flow rate must be faster than mine, that's probably why it's taking longer to clear.

My Scapes

NowherMan6,

If the vals are going, and maybe even the hygro, do you have a vision on plants that should replace them or are you going to fill it out with the remaining plants?

Ingo

PS: Could this change invoke another GW?

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good question, LF. I have some vision of what I want to do, but a lot will depend on how the new driftwood works out. Right now you'll notice there's a big empty space right in the middle of the tank (see pic below) - that's where I figure the branchy part of the DW will go. I know I'm going to try using moss as a bit of ground cover and to highlight the driftwood, but I don't know of any other larger plants to use.



But I'm still looking for a different kind of plant/ plants to fill the void a bit. I was going to ask you all about it on here but it seemed like I was getting ahead of myself a bit I really have no ideas though

It's funny about the hygro, I remember Bensaf said at some point, maybe in this thread even, that hygro is hard to keep under control in a small tank like this and I never understood it until now. The leaves just seem too big for the tank, and that's ignoring how fast it can take over. It really is hard to work with in a little 46 gallon.


Oh yeah, and the whole point of the UV is that little single celled organisms die and dont come back, so I dont think it'll ignite another GW bloom....

... however, if it does, as tetra said in his thread earlier, look on ebay for a bit planted tank set up, complete with UV, CO2 set up and PC lighting. [/font]

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It really is hard to work with in a little 46 gallon
Speaking of hygro taking over, this is my old 46 with lots of it. Also I wouldn't worry about the gw coming back. If you stir things up the alge cells are continuing being zapped by the UV so they shouldn't be able to build up in enough numbers to make a bloom.



tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 09-Jan-2006 07:29[/font]

My Scapes

Yeah,

Let's wait and see the driftwood first before we think about what plants would accomodate it, good thought.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

46 BW not big enough.......I am trying to work with a 40G long...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

46 BW not big enough.......I am trying to work with a 40G long...

I know, I didn't mean to imply that our tanksa re that small, but for what we're trying to do here, create pleasing aquscapes that don't look crowded, that make the tank look larger than it actually is, there are an awful lot of plants out there that you'd think would work well, but really work much better in much larger tanks. We can't all have 125s and 200 gallon monsters...


tetra, nice pic of your old tank. I can see why you started a new one though - comparing your new tank to the 46, the 46 really looks flat, just those two contrasting shades of green. What's funyn is I can see how it inspired your new tank, with the big rock mound on the left (now in the center) and the DW branch poking out the right/ back

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks nowher, hopefully I've learned something. It would be nice to have a tank just to play with. You would also need a large inventory of hardscape to try different setups. Notice how big the Angelfish looks in the tank. I just don't see the beauty of keeping angels in small tanks.


My Scapes

Truth be told, I was going to get an angel before you posted that picture in a thread a while back. It looks huge! To keep a full grown angel in a tank like that... of course you can do it and it's fine for the fish, but it just looks silly and clumsy. And actually, it was that thread which got me seriously thinking of re-doing my tank... so in a way, if it weren't for your giant angel fish, I'd have never gone through with this re-do. I'd like to shake his fin

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Back in the saddle!

Glad I could help in some way. I guess if your not doing a planted tank and just putting a few angels in like a breeding tank. there's considerable more room, but IMO no beauty in it.

My Scapes

Another quick update, this time on the little plant growing right up against the glass. I almost don't believe it but it's starting to look like a crypt wendtii leaf





This one shows a bit more detail:



Notice the shape of the leaf. Any thoughts? I know it's still kinda hard to tell...[/font]

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 11-Jan-2006 08:56[/font]

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My guess would be that it is a sword of some kind

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

It would be wild if that's what it turns out to be. Not impossible though. When i redid the tank I left that layer of watery mulm sitting there when I put in the new gravel. It's perfectly possible that a little piece of crypt or sword was left over in the bit of water and got pushed around towards the front, where it was able to get some light from outside the tank. Life always finds a way, huh? (name the movie that's from... )

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Life always finds a way, huh? (name the movie that's from... )

Jurrasic Park That's one of my favorite lines. In the aquarium business we like to say "Algae always finds a way".

I guess it's not that different, sine algae is a primitive from of life.


Last edited by tetratech at 11-Jan-2006 12:51

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Bingo! Good job tetra

I always liked that line because jeff Goldbloom says it, and he's fantastic in that role. In every movie he makes he should play a neurotic geek.


Anyway, a what plant is this question: The plant below came in a bunch of ludwigia repens, but it grows much slower and, well, doesnt look at all like it any more. Any guesses? it's the one dead center:




And another shot of the tank clearing. This was actually two days ago, it's since gotten even clearer:



That GW outbreak I had was awful, glad it's behind me [/font][/font]

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Looking good Nowhere, plants look really good.

My first thought on the scape now that I could see it
I love the right side, really nice the way it looks sloped up. I think it would look great to duplicate the right side on the left and then have DW poking through randomly.

BTW - I know your tank was really green, but I'm curious what the flow rate is on your powerhead that is running the UV.



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Your tank is growing in very nicely and the green water at this stage gives it actually a nice natural appearance, like a section of the Amazon in the morning hours. In particular that floater helps with that impression.

About the plant: Broad Leaf Ludwigia Repens, my guess. I had one coming in with my narrow leaf as well. Although I have to say that mine only grows slightly slower than the narrow leaf.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks guys it is nice to actually see what's going on in the tank now.

LF, the water isn't green, i was actually playing around with color channels in photoshop and emphisized green a little too much. It's more whiteish cloudy than anything, no green tint.

Re: the aquascaping - the right is very cool looking right now. Very full. I'm starting to see which plants I like and Which I don't like. For example, I'm not too high on the polysperma - which is unsurprising since I wasnt high on it when I had it earlier. Too invasive, not enough character. It's colored up nicely, the tips have turned reddish, even at low levels, so I guess my micros are at a good place.

i do like the rotala a lot, it grows in very sturdy, it's easy to build with. The wisteria adds some nice shape, mine is growing up, not creeping like tetras, but i still like it. And I like the bacopa for now too.

On the left side, that's where the big DW will go once I cure it some more and add some moss to it. the left is a little harder to deal with because of the filter outflow. The luwigia looks great, but it moves around a lot in the flow. I think it'll look much better if I keep it lower rather than high, and keep it in a few small bushes around the DW rather than one large one.

And I have to say, the vals have grown on me a little bit...


Also, the flow for the UV is I think 150 or 175 GPH from the powerhead... One of those.


Last edited by NowherMan6 at 13-Jan-2006 09:54

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I think it'll look much better if I keep it lower rather than high, and keep it in a few small bushes around the DW rather than one large one.
Yeah I think I see where your going. That should look really nice. There are just so many ways to do a scape. That's what's great about, none I exactly alike.

Your powerhead is about as strong as my eheim (185gph) and your's is dedicated to the uv. I think that's a big reason it took longer to clear. Another advantage is ich or other parasites in the water column. You might not have to use meds anymore. Once the ich leaves the fish and is in the water column it should get destroyed by the UV as well.

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The funny thing about the UV gph flow rate is that on the box it says up to 300gph which is an awful lot.

And are you suggesting my fish have ich??? Sir, I am insulted!

Actually, I had ich once and didnt lose a fish and that was way before plating the tank. Another thumbs up for stress free planted tanks


...and UVs...

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And are you suggesting my fish have ich??? Sir, I am insulted!
I would never suggest such a thing, but if they did get it, which I'm sure they won't, you might be able to cure it without meds.

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Any time you dont have to use icdh meds, thats a positive. And any time that same device that allows you not to have to use ich meds aslo clears obnoxious single celled free floating protists, all the better! As you've said in your log, the parasite killing function is just an added bonus


Anyway, Ive been away the past few days, it's going to be a few more days until I'm back on again - though i should have some good stuff to post re:my new mosses

Take care everyone!

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OK, got back from a little vacation and I had to do some trimming. I wasn't able to dose anything while gone, so i think i bottomed out on something because, I dunno, the plants just seemed off - can't really explain it, maybe some were more stingy than normal. So anyway, on to the pics, note the new aquascape - it's temporary but i just thought I'd try it out.

I think this qualifies as clear tank water, even though there's a hint of cloudiness:



Basically, I moved the vals, trimmed the bacopa and rotala, did a major weeding of the tenellus because they'd gotten so thick, and trimmed the ludwigia.

Here's a side shot:



And few shots, close ups of the rotala:





I've been learning more about the plants I like/ dont like as they've grown in. For example, I don't like hygro and I removed it from the scape. It's just too hard to keep it under control, it's quite invasive and big leaved, hard to blend it in with other plants. I think proper use of it would be to use it as a main plant, in corners etc., but to blend is very hard.

Also, I no longer think ludwigia repens is a stand alone background plant. It's too stringy when tall, flows around too much, similar to hygro polysperma. I think from now on I'm going to use it as a midground plant and keep it short in small groups, similar to like so:




And finally, for the hell of it, a yo-yo:




And so the tank continues to morph... [/font][/font][/font][/font][/font][/font]

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Nowher,
Tank definitely is looking clear, as I said your flow must be very fast otherwise I think it would have been crystal a while ago. Wait to you see the tank in another week or so. You'll have to put your hand in it to make sure there is water. One nice thing about GW and I'm not sure why this, but it seems to prevent other algaes from appearing. Most people with GW only have GW and no other algae.

From the pics the plants still look healthy. From a scaping point of view I think you need something to tie it all together, but I think you said more DW is going in. Once the DW is in your could probably fine-tune around it and bring everthing together.

BTW - Nice loach. I was always tempted to get those, but I was afraid the Yo-Yo might get psyc-o with my plants.

Last edited by tetratech at 17-Jan-2006 21:45

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tetratech,

I have Skunk Loaches in my tank and they don't seem to do much damage. The do at times swim around like crazy though.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric