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Ok,

So I finally got a picture of the Oto eating the cucumber myself, after Robyn posted hers I sure have to follow suit here .

Also, I accounted for all 6 Otos, I found 4 of them eating cucumber and 2 near by. Good to know they are still around.

Here is one of them:

Attached Image:

Oto Eats Cucumber

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Otos are definitely the acrobats of planted aquaria. Here's one doing a balancing act on a leaf of my aromatica.

BTW - I'm sure the veggies are a good treat but my otos have done fine with almost no additional feeding even in my protist-free tank



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My Scapes

I think that they are more into eating pre-algea. The stuff we probably can't see.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I think that they are more into eating pre-algea. The stuff we probably can't see.

Oh man - now we are going to get a pre-algae breakout in one of LF's tanks.....I know it

Does that count as a good comment LF

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Does that count as a good comment

You be the judge

So far it seems like this tank is spot clean. The few areas where there were any diatoms, mainly some leaves of the Hygro, are spotless by now. The Otos must really have been hungry.

And about the pre-algae outbreak: as long as I cannot see it I don't mind it at all. I am crazy, but not that crazy

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This week has been a very busy one for me, with regards to work, and as such I did not have the time to do a mid-week water change. I hope this doesn screw things up. I added my ferts though. The one thing I noticed, and I mentioned it before, is the collection of stuff on the surface. While I was adding my TMG on Thursday, I was washing out the measuring glass in the tank. I moved it along the surface and captured quite a bit of the stuff in the glass. It is white and quite solid, little bits of it fell into the water and sank down (maybe 1mm long thin strands formed).

I will have to trim the plants (Hygro) some more to keep the surface movement up as it is halted yet again, even with the angled spray bar.

Ingo

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Weekly Tank Update - Week 3

As mentioned in the last entry above, the week was a busy one for me at work with little time left for the tanks. I skipped the water change during mid week and I think that it should not be a problem. I fed some cucumbers to the Otos and I think they are doing fine now, in particular because they managed to eat 2 complete slices within a day and a half.

Review, here is the tank after setup:

Attached Image:

3 Weeks Ago

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A week later, in particular the Star Grass had grown nicely and requried some pruning. The Hygro was getting taller as well, and so did the Wisteria.

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago

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Last weekend brought with it the major trimming of the Star Grass group as it reached the surface all over the place. The Hygro wasn't touched.

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1 Week Ago

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This weekend, the plants in the tank grew so tall yet again that surface movement had completely stopped. The gunk on it makes me a little worried as I assume it would stop the oxygen exchange. Is that right?

Here is the tank before this weekend's maintenance:

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Before Trimming

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As you can see, the Hygro is creating a lot of shade, and so do some of the Star Grass stems. I removed almost all Hygro stems and trimmed off the buttoms and replanted the tops. Further, I removed some of the Star Grass stems that melted because of shading, and others because they looked too ugly mixed into the Hygro.

I don't think I have to worry about not having enough plant mass

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Tank Now

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Last but not least, a few into the tank from the other side. This time around I remembered to turn off the lights in the 125G behind it first to avoid the reflection of it in the glass.

Also, yesterday in the morning I noticed that the CO2 hose came off the diffuser and was bubbling straight into the water column. This may have been the case for a max of about 1 day so I don't think it should create too much of a problem.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank From Back View Now

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don't think I have to worry about not having enough plant mass

What plant mass? Tank is getting thick! How soon until the real plants show up?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

How soon until the real plants show up?

Maybe in about 2 weeks, but I am not in a rush, to be honest. I will have to order the plants first, then store them in the 20QT until the weekend, plant half of them and keep on storing the rest.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I see, Its a good thing you don't have any fish in lock down right now. Going to be a pretty big plant order I have a feeling.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Weekly Tank Update - Week 4

Growth in this tank is really nice. Once again, I could not perform the mid-week water change as I was really busy at work. I guess I will cancel this one and restart it when the final plants are coming.

First I will show some pictures and then I would like to get some input from you folks about the transition to the final plants.

Here is the tank as of last weekend:

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Last Weekend

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And this is how the tank looked this weekend before the water change and trimming.

All grown up, the Star Grass was so tall that it was growing along the surface and shaded itself and other lower plants:

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Before Trimming

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The size of this tank allows me to take care of individual Star Grass stems, unlike the huge mass that I have in the 125G.

Here, I go and trim each stem while it is still planted. I cut off any tops that I seem worthy to be replanted, and after all these are done I dispose of the bottoms that are still in the tank. This is also made easier by the fact that I can work on the tank from all sides.

Here is the tank after the trimming:

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After Trimming and Water Change

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Here is a close-up of a Star Grass stem in the evening. This is the only tank where I can see pearling. Oh, BTW, so far my CO2 tube came off the diffuser 3 times, I think I will have to somehow tie it onto it. How would that be done?

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Pearls

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Since about two weeks I see some small amount of hair algae on the uppermost parts of the branches. I am not too worried about that, as long as it doesn't spread to the lower regions (which may be possible when the fast growers come out).

This branch is about 2 inches below the surface, so it is really close to the light:

Attached Image:

Hair Algae on Driftwood

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Now, here is a series of 4 Oto shots. Sorry to bother you with so many of them, but I find Otos to be very pretty fishies, besides the fact that they are currently the only inhabitants of this tank.

I fed them cucumbers only once this week, I think they are finding enough food now in the tank itself and the veggie is more of a treat.

Attached Image:

Oto I

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I think Otos are very graceful fish, and when they swim they look like miniature sharks. They never bother anybody else in the tank and mind their own business. Mine are all over the tank, constantly on the search for food and something to nibble on. In short, just lovely:

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Oto II

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I am very glad to report that so far I have not lost even one of the six that I purchased over two weeks ago, although all indicators (small and only one day at the LFS) pointed towards a major die-off.

I don't know if I simply got lucky or if my husbandry skills for this fish have improved, but all that matters to me is that they all are still here.

Attached Image:

Oto III

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Last picture for this update, an Oto sucking on the glass. I have a similar picture of an Oto in this weeks 125G update and I really wish I could show you these two together in comparison (but I can't easily do so). This one is maybe half the size than the one in the big tank. As you can see, he/she seems well fed and a happy camper

Ingo

Attached Image:

Oto IV

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OK,

On to the anticipated changes for this tank. It is well known that the current plant layout in this tank is only to establish the tank quicker. In the long run, two main groupings on the centers of the driftwood sections are the goal. Here are a few assumptions/questions:

- I will split the planting in half, one side of the tank at one weekend, the other side later. Questions: is one week later too close? And - Would it be too early to start next week (5 weeks after setup)?

- Tetratech mentions in one of Robyn's (Tank Watcher) logs that he was not able to grow Hair Grass successfully (nicely) in even 2.7wpg. I have about 2.25wpg, but a much lower tank with only 16". Question: Will my attempt to plant the open plains between the two driftwood groups fail?

- I am planning on some taller plant in the driftwood groups, maybe not the same species in both. Mostly, these areas will have Anubias Nana (and maybe Petite), but in the middle will be some Narrow Leaf Java Fern. Questions: Should I rather buy new Fern than use the one from the 125G as there is some BBA on it? Even if I would not transplant leaves with BBA, could there be some not yet visible spores on the other leaves? What other plants could you invision as a taller center group in the Anubias/driftwood arrangements?

I guess this is enough to get us started,

Thanks so much for any input,

Ingo

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LF,

That pic with the hair algae on the DW isn't that just left over moss or is there moss and hair algae?

I would rearrange the tank even more slowly than what you are prescribing. I would slowly take out some stems/group and replace with what you want then fine-tune it as you go along.

Nice oto shots, I really like mine as well, now if I could only find the spotted ones.

My Scapes

Hi Ingo

I'm not experienced enough to help out with your questions, but have to say I always enjoy your pictures. I liked seeing your otos & I was really glad you posted that final pic of the oto on your glass. Your oto has red showing below his little opened "opera singing mouth". I always worried about that redness on mine & I'm glad to see it must be normal, as yours has it too.

You sure had a lot of growth this week. All looks very lush in there.

Cheers
TW

Here is a close-up of a Star Grass stem in the evening. This is the only tank where I can see pearling. Oh, BTW, so far my CO2 tube came off the diffuser 3 times, I think I will have to somehow tie it onto it. How would that be done?

Nice pearling
It's funny that you mentioned the co2 tubing. I had been using regular black tubing. The cheap stuff I think it was Lee's or something and I never had a problem keeping the tubing on the diffusor, then I switched to co2 tubing (green/blue like the stuff you have and I've been having the same problem. Came home from work a couple of time and there it was my co2 bleeding into the corner of my tank one big wasted bubble at a time.

As a temporary fix I have two suction cup holders/clips holding the diffusor in place. One is about an inch down from the where the tubing meets the diffusor and the other is right where the diffusor stem meets the tubing. In other words it is over the tubing that is over the stem of the diffusor. So far it's held for a few days, but I was afraid I might crack the stem.

My Scapes

So about the hair algae. Give it a nice splash of Excel or maybe try a flag fish. We had some at work and they love!!! the hair algea.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

isn't that just left over moss or is there moss and hair algae?

- There never was moss or algae in the tank before, remember - it's Jeff's wood. This took about 2 to 3 weeks to grow that much, overall it is really tiny and not too much of a concern.

Replant: albteit I am not skimpy when it comes to spending money on plants, I don't like to waste money on shipping. If I spread out replanting over various weeks then I risk that the other ordered plants would not do to well while being temporarily housed in the low tech, almost no ferts, low light tanks for too long. As such, I would assume I have to order a few times rather than once. What to do?

Robyn, yup - the red is normal, you basically see the fish's gills and they are red in any fish.

Wings - No flag fish, too big and boring

Ingo

EDIT: tetratech - thanks for the tip on the tubing holder (aka cup). I will give it a try (and I hear you on the worries about breaking the glass tube)

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There never was moss or algae in the tank before,

remember - it's Jeff's wood. This took about 2 to 3 weeks to grow that much, overall it is really tiny and not too much of a concern.

Well you never know where someone's driftwood has been.

Replant: albteit I am not skimpy when it comes to spending money on plants, I don't like to waste money on shipping. If I spread out replanting over various weeks then I risk that the other ordered plants would not do to well while being temporarily housed in the low tech, almost no ferts, low light tanks for too long. As such, I would assume I have to order a few times rather than once. What to do?
I'm sure somewhere in that fishroom of yours you'll be able to accomodate some new plants temporarily.

My Scapes

hello Little Fish

I am just popping into say hi and put this on my active threads list. Tank looks good, my 40G(well35G) is a mess so I am very interested to see yours.

hope you are well!
and be prepared for me to nick all your ideas!

GFGxx

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

Tetratech,

I will have to think about where what plants could be stored. Hey, any input from your end on the ability of this tank to grow Hair Grass successfully?

GFG,

Always glad to see you pop in . And if you wish to nick all of my ideas, skip the ones that cause algae and use the others at your will. BUT - you will always have to use the reference to my tank when you show off yours and you have to post pictures of both tanks in comparison (just kidding). And - Sorry about England's loss.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Additional Question:

Who knows anything about Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae ???

It is a grass like plant with low height, and supposedly needs high light. Is it an alternative for Eleocharis acicularis?

Anyone knows more about it? Information and/or experience sharing is greatly appreciated,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Don't use the NL Fern from the 125. One you will need it there and two it's simply not enough. Get a lot of it as it will take a long time to fill out if you don't have enough.

I'd use it on both sides. It's a graceful enough plant that you can use it on both mounds without looking like you have too much. Having less on one side looks good.All the great scapers who use it always have it on both sides.

The Novae Zealandae is not a bad choice.It's the easiest of the species. Problem is there
are other Lilaeopsis species that look almost identical that are much more difficult. I've tried one in the best (not sure which species) it just sat there for me didn't die , didn't grow. But this was before I had Co2 or even decent light.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ingo you've become quite the aquatic plant aficianado (sp?)! It seems like only yesterday you were setting up that 125g for the first time. I take a brief hiatus only to come back and find your humble basement has become a booming fish room! I'm impressed!

This setup in particular looks great. Can't wait to see what will become of it in the coming weeks. It's always a guessing game as to what will work and what won't, esp with plants. You seem to have a taste similar to mind, as I find your setups among the most attractive. Take care and keep in touch!

Hey, any input from your end on the ability of this tank to grow Hair Grass successfully?

In my opinion your rolling the dice. If it doesn't grow well it will get saddled down with gunk and of course get BBA. It did grow but new leaves eventually got BBA in my tank with the 2.7wpg, but it was deeper in the bowfront mostly and I don't think I was running my co2 as high back then. Some say a rich substrate is necessary, which you have with the eco, but of course others will disagree. If it get's good light and high co2 you might have a shot. Here's a pic of my tank 45 days out with the hairgrass foreground.

Attached Image:


My Scapes

Thanks guys for the input
Just a few updates before I fall asleep on my office chair (yes, still at work :

I ordered:

- 10 Nana
- 1 Mother Plant Barteri (just for the fun of it, may add it to the big tank)
- 3 Narrow Leaf Java Ferns
- 1 square foot of Novae Zealandae

Let's see how it all works out, but it for sure means that at least part of the change to the tank is pretty much coming no later than this weekend. Exciting and scary at the same time.

Ingo

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Well, last night when I came home the plants had arrived.

What can I say, I planted them all, it took only 7 hours for the whole operation

I took a few pictures, but I have to download them on the computer first, it was way too late last night to do so and now I have to get ready for work already, still in the crazy phase there (but I hope today is the last day of it, for a while).

All I can say is that once when I was done, I discovered small reddish worms, like tubifex I guess, in the bucket where the Novae Zealandae was parked . I hope that is not going to be a problem in the tank. Also, getting the Novae Zealandae and the mother Barteri out of the "growing sponge", or whatever else this stuff is called, was sure a pain in the neck. I added the Barteri to the tank as well, but I believe it is not staying.

More later,

Your tired Ingo

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So with your last post it sounds like you went 100% LF style and messed with the whole tank?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

you went 100% LF style and messed with the whole tank?

- Well, I can't deny who I am

Yes, I did change everything, except for the substrate and the basic position of the rocks, although they have been elevated a bit to stand out some more.

Right now, I have a load of Wisteria floating in the 20G and even more Hyrgo in the 125G, I didn't have the time to do anything with it, and I didn't want to throw it out either.

Ingo

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Ok,

So here comes the visual change progress in 16 Acts (brace yourself).

After I came home on Thursday, I grabbed the package and began to unpack. The first one to be unloaded was the Barteri mother plant. Unfortunately, 3 small pieces broke off during shipping. That in itself would not have been all that bad, if it wouldn't be for the fact that all 3 are the growing ends of longer rhizomes of the mother. I am not certain if these 3 rhizomes will ever create new shoots, we will see.

Attached Image:

Mother Anubias Barteri

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Next, I unpacked the Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae, Nana, and the Java Fern.

As you can see, the fern is rather small and the Anubias Nana is as expected, with about 5 leaves on each of the 10 plants. The Lilaeopsis came in a matt of one square foot, with roots and what not all being a big solid group.

Attached Image:

Nana, Fern, and Lilaeopsis

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Here is a close-up of the Lilaeopsis matt. As I mentioned a few posts back, after I finished adding all plants to the tank I discovered that small red worms, like tubifex, were in the bucket. I have to assume that I have some of them now in the tank.

Reason to worry? What do you think?

Attached Image:

Lilaeopsis Close-Up

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After the unpacking came the boring and unpleasant task of cleaning the plants. In particular the Mother Barteri was a pain in the neck, all the roots were in this growing sponge stuff. I tried to get off as much as I could, but I am certain that some of it remained on the plant.

Here are the plants after some cleaning, ready for the planting process:

Attached Image:

Post Cleaning

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Then it was time to start messing with the tank, as Wings calls it: 100% LF style .

Before I got started I took one last shot of the tank with the warm-up plants still in place:

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Last Old Picture

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First I removed all the tall plants, the Star Grass was thrown out and the Hygro was placed in a bucket for replant in maybe this tank or another. In the end, there was no space left for it in this tank and it was so late at night that I just added it to the 125G as a floater, and that is where it still is as I am writing this.

Attached Image:

Stems are Removed

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A scary part of this removal process was the thought that an Oto may decide to hide by clinging to a leaf and I would ultimately throw it away, but it didn't happen. Nevertheless, it means that each plant removed had to be carfully observed before being discarded off.

Next, I removed the Wisteria and the only plants left in the tank are the 3 Blyxas.

Attached Image:

All Plants Gone - Except Blyxa

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Then I removed all the wood from the tank. I used this chance to rinse it off a little as it still had some fungus growing on it.

At this stage, finding the Otos was an easy task, with almost nothing left in the tank for them to hide. And I am glad to report that all 6 original Otos are still around.

Attached Image:

Almost Empty Tank

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Next I performed a 30% water change, partially to remove some floating debris from the water column, partially to vacuum some gunk of the substrate. This was important as I had to do some minor rescaping of the substrate, like raising the rocks a little and reshapng the hills. Without the water change I would have made a major mess of the water column.

During all this time, the Otos were eating on any object that was left in the tank, at this stage pretty much only the glass in itself was there.

Attached Image:

Otos Hanging In

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Next, I repositioned the filter intake, heater, diffuser, and spray bar. The spray bar is now horizontally on the right of the tank, I have not been too happy about the enormous lack of surface movement in the old setup.

Then, all wood had been placed in the tank again to get a vision on how it would look. Here I had to really focus as I then went on to remove the entire right group again, but had to keep in mind where I would like to place the plants on the wood. After quite some time, the right group had 10 Nana and the 3 Ferns tied to it:

Attached Image:

Right Hill Replanted

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Here is a close-up that is of better lighting and a slightly different angle. As you may notice, not all Nanas are tied to the wood, some are tied to a rock in front of it.

The Fern isn't tied too high on the rocks as I expect it to grow higher by itself.

Attached Image:

Right Group Close Up

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Then I had to make a decision.

Obviously, I ran out of Nanas to plant and the left group contains a large area of wood in its center that eliminated the option to plant anything in the substrate there. So, I decided to, at least for now, add that mother Barteri to that section.

What do you think?

Attached Image:

Left Group With Mother Barteri

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In the meantime, the Otos were happy that the wood was back in and insantly started to munch away on it. Occasionally they still came to the glass though and gave me a chance to count them, as I was still worried that I may have squeezed them under some added wood.

Attached Image:

Otos Hanging In

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The tank at this stage actually does not look all that bad, maybe I should have just kept it that way. The problem would have been the rather small plant mass, with lots of light and CO2, and that would have been asking for trouble.

So, on I went to plant the Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae, WHAT A PAIN

I had to divide the matt into smaller chunks, and then take these chunks into even smaller plugs that can be planted. Overall, I would estimate that I created anywhere between 70 and 100 of these plugs, although it felt like I made about 1000. It took forever. Planting these plugs though was not all that hard, thanks to the ease with which Eco lets you add plants.

After that planting the tank was complete:

Attached Image:

All Panted

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Here is a closer look at the center area of the tank with the Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae and the 3 remaining Blyxa in place. It is a very nice plant, altough I have to confess that I know little about its growth pattern, speed, and anything for that matter. Any info is welcome:

Attached Image:

Center Area of Tank

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And last but not least, another full tank shot from last evening, about 19 hours after the setup was completed.

I seem to identify that the Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae leaves have uprighted themselves to some degree, at least in the picture they seem a little more pointed upwards than in the previous shot.

And that is that, all done for now.

What do you think? Any input? Anything you can see that I messed up? Anything?

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

One Day Later

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I'm thinking.......

My Scapes

Ingo,

I like the way the tank looks now but you now have me throughly confused.

I though that the point of starting the tank out full of fast growers, was because they grow quickly and get established quickly creating a large plant biomass to out compete the algae spores that are always present in air and water.

Ok, jump to this week when you take out all the fast growers and replace them with some slower growing plants.

This is what confuses me. What was the point of the stem plants?

At this point you have basically done a reset of the tank. The algae spores are still present, but instead of a large fast growing established biomass, you have a smaller, non established slow growing biomass. What is stopping the algae from getting establishing now?

My thought would be to remove a section of the stems and plant some of the Anubuias and the Lilaeopsis. Then a couple weeks later do some more, etc. This way you never have a situation where you have no established plants.

Anyway I not trying to be critical, just trying to learn. It does look very nice.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Anyway I not trying to be critical, just trying to learn.

Hey Rick, I hear you - I am trying to learn myself.

Initially, the idea was to remove only part of the fast growers and plant that section with new, more permanent plants. Over the course of a few weeks or a month or two, the whole tank would have been changed.

That would have been ideally what I wanted to do, but there were some logistical problems:

- If I order all plants at once, what do I do with the remaing plants? My other tanks can only house an additional plant load if I a) either replant each tank to accomondate for the extra load or b) have them float in there and risk a die-off from the shading over weeks.

- If I order them over weeks on a buy-what-you-need-now basis, then a) can I be guaranteed that the plants are available when needed, b) do they sell small masses of the individual plants (no problem on the Anubias, but a no-no on the Lilaeopsis, which comes as half this size as the minimum quantity), and c) I would have to pay a fortune in shipping for small packages that have to be overnighted.

- The addition of the fast growers was not for nothing, at least not in my opinion (and I may be wrong). Water from the tab has nothing to do with tank water in an established tank, loads of natural goodies, like beneficial bacteria etc., are missing, and the tank's filter is "clean". Riding the tank in with fast growers creates a plant friendly environment that will help to keep algae at bay. I hope to have converted the tank into such an environment where new plants still will have an advantage over algae. Plus, the fact that I have the light on for only 8.5 hours per day should help as well.

- As Wings put it nicely, I did a replant LF Style, just check all my other logs if you don't know what that means. For better or worse, most likely worse, my way of doing these things is by removing pretty much all content from the tank and then start to replant. I simply seem to be incapable to remove only parts and not influence the other parts. For me, it is all a chain reaction, a move on one subject causes another having to change, and so forth. I hope this explanation makes sense to you.

Thanks for the comment on the current look

Ingo

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Looks really nice Ingo.

Everything looks nice and I like the Lilaeopsis & will have to look it up. Knowing my luck, though, it needs high light I bet.

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn,

Yeah, I think the Lilaeopsis needs hight light to thrive, although I have to confess that I did one of these "oh - how pretty, I need to have it and will research the details later" kind of purchases. Ususally, that style comes back to haunt you later

Rick - one more thing: I think that I have a rather large plant mass in there right now, with this plant being so dense and all parts exposed to the light (rather than the shaded bottoms of the Star Grass that always wither away, or the rather bare stems of the Hygro that carry only a few leaves each).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

My first reaction is "Sod"
You certainly have an instant lawn and in itself the tank looks nice, but I'm alittle confused about what your trying to accomplish.

Weren't you trying to do two mounds with rock work, etc. The microswords although a foreground plant are very tall and is hiding any kind of hardscape that the plants play off of. The blyxa is really wasted in that spot since it's color and shape is very similiar to the microsword.
Are you planing to reduce the microsword population or do you want a full lawn? I thought you were doing a beachfront in this tank or was that another tank in your "Fishroom"

Don't get me wrong the tank is pleasing to the eye, but I'm not sure what the goal is?



My Scapes

I'm not sure that I like how the lilaeopsis is basically all one level and flat across the tank. It doesn't do much for creating depth, it looks especially flat knowing that this is such a deep tank front to back. I say you either need to do more with the gravel to produce depth or find some taller grasses to mix in with the one you have now.

That said, I do like the plant choices, and you probably already have a plan for creating some interest in the grassy area that I don't know about. It does look nice for doing a 100% change in one day, and will continue to look better, I'm sure.

The barteri will form new shoots from any cutting. I've chopped a nana into about 6 peices before and watched all of them sprout in new directions. It actually seems to encourage branching, like in stem plants.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Gee,

Everyone is a critic

Folks, I worked my lower back off to get this together and you tell me its just another failure?

Ok - the entries by tetratech and Matty:

The beachfront idea was pretty much scrapped when Bensaf mentioned that black substrate doesn't lean itself to a distinct beach appearance and I was unwilling to add another lighter substrate.

I am aware that the Blyxa doesn't stick out, but maybe it will when it grows taller (although color is pretty much the same but may turn more reddish, I hope).

The rocks were never intended to be a focal point of the hardscape, their main purpose is to keep the hills together. And I agree, one cannot see much of hills anymore anyway, that was a design/planning flaw. The hardscape focus is the wood, and unfortunately that doesn't come out in the pictures that well. I am plannning to add a white background that is removable to add just for the pictures so you get a better idea on how the tank looks like when you actually stand in front of it.

Overall, I gave up on the idea on having a detailed vision before I redo one of my tanks and then follow through with that vision at any cost. I rather prefer right now to have some idea and then go with the flow, creating what comes natural during that process. Why - because I am not experienced enough to lay out a clear and suitable vision that actually resembles an implementation without having it in front of me.

Yes, one of the visions was to add some taller plants spread out on the plain to create some highlights, but they are secondary implementations not important for the mass of plants. I may add some red Wendtii or other accent plant much later in the progress, we will see. Crypts or such plants seemed at this time to only have increased the slow growing group and to cause a decrease in water quality because of the almost given melting.

I chopped my Nanas and Barteris in the large tank as well, although only into two pieces each. Thanks for the thums up on the regrowth.

And overall - the goal is to enjoy the ride . So far, all of my tanks have seen overhauls and I srongly believe that I will never be finished with any of them. As I said, I can see that the Barteri Mother will have to go again, then I can mess with that wood area some more. Assuming I plant similar plants than on the other wood group, I will need about 15 to 20 more Anubias to do so.

So, now I would like to hear some more positive feedback, if you don't mind

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey I made sure to throw some positives into my post, I don't even like being critical of other people's work, especially when it looks pretty good. I like the anubias on the wood, you were going to change this? or were you going to just add more anubias? I do think some color would be nice, we get "bronze" wendtii at the store, and it seems to stay more compact than the red does. That was the plant in the front left of my old tank. I always like that one and wished I had made a better place for it.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

The beachfront idea was pretty much scrapped when Bensaf mentioned that black substrate doesn't lean itself to a distinct beach appearance and I was unwilling to add another lighter substrate.


I really don't buy that and I must disagree with my master about the darkside
There are some pretty distinictive beachfronts in nature. Let's see Hawaii and Tahiti come to mind.

It's really about contrast. If the rocks separating the plants from the substrate have a good constrast it really doesn't matter whether the sand is white, black or Bermuda pink.

Why not have a few rocks sticking out of your microsword field and plant the Blyxa in-between them. You need some areas of constrast and depth.



My Scapes

Hey, I really don't mind critics, they are what keeps us going. I think it would be more of a concern if a tank is changes and all that comes back is "looks nice".

Well, I didn't think about far away beaches when looking at a black beachfront, I looked at tetratech's tank . Although it didn't look bad at all, it didn't stick our either. Also, keep in mind that in order to have a beach I probably should have made it all around, with being a tank in the open from all sides.

Matty - The Barteri on the left is simply too big and starts to high up. You should see it from the other side of the tank (will post a picture maybe tomorrow), you can see the huge root mass elevated above the grass plant, it is almost ugly. Also, given good ferts, CO2, and light,the stems of the Barteri will grow so long that the plant will push out of the water. I think I will have to remove it.

tetratech - good idea on the rocks sticking out, I still have some of them available. First though I will try to get this load established before breaking it up again.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

BTW - When Bensaf mentioned the black sand beach wasn't distintive did you confirm he was sober

As far as the beach to each his own. I have both white an black sand beaches and they both work IMHO. The 72g has riccia and petrified wood that both constrast nicely with the eco and the 12g has javamoss meeting the white sand which again is a nice constrast.



My Scapes

The 72g has riccia and petrified wood that both constrast nicely with the eco and the 12g has javamoss meeting the white sand which again is a nice constrast.

Exactly tetratech - and I have neither nor. I envisioned your 72G and deducted the beautiful border to the beach. Which is what my tank would not have, a border, otherwise there would not really have been any space left, considering the all around beach. Border would have met border from the other side with maybe a small strip of "land" in between. That is why the black in itself would not have been such a great idea for me. You know what I mean?

I didn't check if he was sober, and I don't know in what state of mind he has his best ideas either

Ingo

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I see pretty good constrast with your rocks and the eco. If those were bordering the islands separating the eco fromt the plants with a center area of all eco it would be fine in my hubble opinion.



Attached Image:

Good Contrast

My Scapes

Ok,

So - with the old saying pictures are better than words, here are a few (12) details of the tank.

First off the more ugly side of the Mother Barteri, with loads of roots really visible in the tank. That part is hard to cover up, attempts to do so seemed forced:

Attached Image:

Barteri Roots

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Next up,

A detail of one of the Ferns attached to the driftwood. As you can see, they are still small. I hope that when they grow they will give the right group some additional height.

Attached Image:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern I

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Here is another Fern shot, from a differnt group. You can even see the black thread with which the fern is attached to the Wood.

The little white spots are there because I just added some Equilibrium to the tank.

Attached Image:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern II

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Tetratech - you referred to the rocks. Well - they are still there, and some of them are quite visible in the tank.

If I am not mistaken then this is exactly the one you were showing. No plants in front of it, still in the open.

Attached Image:

Rocks I

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All rocks have been elevated a little to stick out some more than before. Here is another unhidden one, shot from the left end of the tank.

I agree that this one may dissapear over time, but I can always remove some plant mass to re-show it.

Attached Image:

Rocks II

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All good things come in 3

So here is the rock group that is visible from the backside of the tank, just below the Barteri.

Oh, BTW, the wood that the Barteri sits on forms a wondeful cave below it, you may be able to see that in the picture. I am thinking Apistos

Attached Image:

Rocks III

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Here is a shot from the right side of the tank, the one where all the equipment is coming in. I have the wood sticking out almost to the glass. This will serve as a natural divider for the grassy plant as well and give it some variety.

Attached Image:

Right Side

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And here it is from the left side. Nothing special to see here, maybe even a bit boring.

Attached Image:

Left Side

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An added bonus of this order was that the Micro Swords were covered in Duck Weed, the plant that I managed to kill (or have all eaten up) in the 125G. I will transfer some of it over there tomorrow to start a new culture.

Attached Image:

Duck Weed

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Here is a detail from the back view, with a little less light, that shows you that the plants are all slightly different, unlike Hair Grass where one sprout looks just like the next. Or at least that is what I can see.

Attached Image:

Close-Up

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Here is a full view of the backside of the tank, with the see-through option into the 125G.

Rocks and even some wood that is placed on the ground (big piece, going all the way through the right Barteri group, serving as the base for that plant) are showing through, although the wood also may dissapear over time.

Attached Image:

Full Back View

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And lastly, although I cannot take any credit for it, a shot of a Barteri flower. I find it a good sign if the Anubias that is coming in already has a flower, makes me more certain that it will have additional ones in the future.

That is it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Barteri Flower

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Weekly Tank Update - Week 5

As has been well documented during the last 2 pages, this week has seen a major change in the tanks plant selection. Albeit the results concluded in mixed reactions, at best, I like the new look and will keep on modifying it as time goes on, but first I will let it settle to see how the plants will grow. The one plant that is more likely than not to be removed soon is the Mother Barteri, it is just too big for this tank and its positioning doesn't help the cause either. In its place should go about 15 to 20 Nanas.

I will spare you from an army of additional pictures, you have seen it all in the last few pages.

Here is a front shot from today,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Week 5 - Full Shot

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Well,

Here is one close-up of a change that I just performed. As the CO2 hose came off yet again, by now an almost daily thing, I changed the suction cup and holder. I used a true airline sucktion cup and placed its holder directly at the end piece of the tube, where it is shoved over the diffuser. I was a little worried that I may break the glass, but I was fed up enought to do it anyway.

Ingo

Attached Image:

New Diffuser Holder Position

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I probably missed this somewhere, but why didn't you put the mother barteri on the right DW which is a lower position and the nana on the left (or is that just an illusion)

Well it sounds like we are having the same problem with the tubing. I've done what you are doing now and it still came off or it doesn't necessarily come off but the co2 escapes at the union of tubing and glass and never makes it to the diffusor. I guess I'll try Nowher's suggestion of heat or go back to Lee's Stealth Black Tubing. I never had the issue with that tubing but it wasn't co2 quality so I went to the greenish and blueish silicone type tubing.
I've noticed an increase in BBA due to the fluctating co2 levels because of this.



My Scapes

The rocks have disappeared again ! I understand you want to highlight the wood, but the rocks will only help with that. Especially now.

What's happened now is that there is alawn creating a flat horizon and the wood appears to be sitting on that.

Some rocks or other plants emerging from the lawn will break up that flat horizon.

The Blyxa is in the wrong place, but then it always was. Blyxa is a plant that cries out to be placed in front of wood or rock to highlight the colors. Having it alone at the front was always a waste, more so now has it's simply disappeared.

Shame the Fern was so small. it will change things once it grows in.

Don't be down hearted. It's a very nice tank , just a few little tweaks and it will be even better.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

The black sand can work in some cases. It can work with petrified wood as the wood is a brighter color.

In the tank the ADA old dark wood would simply disappear and fade into the black sand. IMHO. This is not to say I was or was not sober then.....or now

Bear that in mind now. Some the branches resting on the substrate will look real good cutting into the lawn. The dark wood against the bright green. Everybody wins

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Don't be down hearted. It's a very nice tank , just a few little tweaks and it will be even better.

Well, for sure the tank will receive some tweaking, that was in the plan all along. The Barteri (on the left) sits much higher up than the Nanas (on the right) as the long piece of wood (that stretches out over the substrate towards the mid back of the tank) is rather high, with the cave below it and all. The Blyxa may move at some point, right now it is in its current spot because it was one of the few that got some ground light when in the growout phase and I would like it to develop some roots first (darn floater).

Ingo

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LF,

I have been kind of peeking in here every now and then to see what has been going on and trying to come up with something to say about your tank. Right now here are my feelings about it.

Things are gone in the jungle of plants once again as others have already stated. Adding in taller rocks would be nice to get them above the grass. I am not so sure I like the Anubias with your wood. Personaly I think it is too much wideness of leaves which takes away from your very nice branches of DW. Just my two cents. Feel free to stop by my log and beat up on my tank too!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Ingo,

My two cents: I think you're right about the mother barteri, the leaves are too big for this tank and it throws off the perspective. A large plant like this works wonderfully in keithg's 90 gallon tank, but for a low 40 breeder it's too much. A big mass of java ferns may look good in its place.

See, part of the challange of this tank is that it's viewable from all sides, meaning you can't just build up stem plants in the back to highlight the dark wood and show it off. I think it may help do do what Bensaf suggested in my little 4 gallon, tie some moss, java or otherwise, onto that long branch sticking out, that way there'll be some contrast. Maybe some christmas moss, since it'll hang down more than I think java would.

In understand what bensaf is saying about the rocks, but honestly I think it works fine without them, or I should say, it works very well with just wood. Your original layout vision is great, it's just a matter of bring it to life. It's just a matter of creating more "movement" with the substrate level, right now it does look a little flat. I feel like in your original vision you had a deeper valley in mind...

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Back in the saddle!

Weekly Tank Update - Week 6

As you all know, if you follow my 125G log, this week had a 2 day power outage. Plants seemed to have survived ok, I see some dying micro swords and a few Anubias leaves came off. I don't know if the latter is based on the lack of light or shipping and handling, but at least one rhizome seems to be melting.

Here is the tank before the Water Change

Attached Image:

Before Water Change

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Some bad stuff happened during the water change, the entire wood group on the right fell apart. After loads of cursing and a few attempts, I finally managed to create a new one that seems to be a little more stable.

I know it is not the prettiest, but I am too busy overall to care.

Attached Image:

After Water Change

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Here is a look at that new grouping from the other side of the tank. I know, no sign of a hill and what not, also the overwhelming amount of micro swords and what not, but that is what it is for now.

Attached Image:

Back View

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Seems like you came through in this tank ok. You don't mention the otos, but I assume they made it (or you would have mentioned it).

Hope things settle at work.

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn,

Yes, all Otos are accounted for, even after my wood structure fell apart

There seems to be some signs of damage to the Anubias, one Nana is on its way out and certain areas (in the region where there was some damage done during transport) of the Barteri are turning brown as well

And the micro sword is not yet sending out any runners, hopefully it will settle soon. I could see this plant as a nice ground cover in the 125G, maybe I will move it there as all of you don't think it fits in this tank anyway .

Ingo

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LF,

Sending out runners? Where are they going to go? It looks like your tank is chopped full! Could you take a top down picture for us?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

maybe I will move it there as all of you don't think it fits in this tank anyway .

I actually think it looks good, I just reacted with surprise because it isn't what I thought you were going to do. As Wings stated the Microsword is planted heavily and it will probably need to be thinned out in short order.
What I think would look nice in the tank if you could somehow get those two hills to stay up higher so the rocks show more (maybe bigger rocks) and then have the microsword come down the hill with a rock here and there.

My Scapes

Sounds good tetratech, I am sure there will be plenty more changes to come before we will be all happy with it (and I am not happy, but by far not as unhappy as I am with the 125G).

There are actually quite some gaps between the plugs of micro swords that can be filled up with runners. I think this plant would make a great carpet in the big tank, but of course it may not grow there, given that it likes finer grained substrate.

Ingo

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Ok gang,

If you follow my 125G log then you know that I traded some of my Espei in at the LFS for store credit. And of course, a credit is worth nothing if you don't buy anything for it.

So I did

I announced it a while ago, and now I would like to introduce you to Mr. and Mrs. Apistogramma cacatuoides "Triple-Red".

Here is a picture of the female in the bag in the 20G QT.

Attached Image:

Female cacatuoides

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And here is a picture of the male, also in the bag. I had to pay a little extra to get them, but they are supposedly easy Apistos to have, don't give you too much trouble, and on top of it are nice to look at.

The 40G with the natural cave created by the driftwood on the left will house them well

I don't have any additional shots yet, as I am still acclimating them and the lights in the tank are off already. Once again, they are first going into the QT.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Male cacatuoides

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Very nice, Ingo. It's funny I was in the LFS the other day and I had my trigger on the finger and was going to purchase a pair of those and I simply don't have anywhere to put them. I would have to get rid of some fish to accomodate them. Part of me would like to house them in my 12g with about 5 or 6 CRS, but I have that nice school of gold tetras.



My Scapes

LF - did you get them from AF? If you did then you shouldn't have a problem breeding them - last week I witnessed some obvious mating-type behavior by those two...

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Back in the saddle!

They look really nice Ingo. I hope you enjoy them.

Now we can compare cacatuoides notes. Yours are very similar looking to mine. Your female looks bigger than mine, but that may just be the shot. My male is easily twice my female's size. Your male is very similar to mine, except that the black & red pattern shown on the rear of your male's tail, is strongly repeated on my male's anal fin as well. Also my male's dorsal fin is red all the way through - nothing there that is not either red or black (no clear). My male's tail is divided into 2 colour patterns. Close to his body the tail is strongly patterned red/black & as it reaches the 2nd half of his tail it is strongly yellow/black. I wonder if your males colouring will become like mine or if these are the variances. Does your male have a slight blue outline to his lower lip?

Good luck & I hope they are in very soon.

Enjoy.

Attached Image:


Cheers
TW

Thanks to all 3 of you for the input, I guess that means that you basically approve of that fish.

NowherMan6 - indeed I bought them at AF, and it must have been the pair that you saw, as they are in the store for about 4 weeks already. They have been in the tank with some younger discus and pencils. Also - when Tom and I went to the tank we first couldn't find the male as he was hiding in the fake plants, which - Tom said - is usually a sign of an agressive female during breeding. So your statement confirms his assumptions, awesome.

Robyn - Well, if mine don't color up some more then I assume that I don't have a pure Triple-Red set here. I was reading up on these fish a few weeks ago and if I remember that right then fry of Triple-Reds are of varying color schemes, the blue print of regular cacs, red, double red, and triple red. Maybe mine are somewhere there in the mix. I guess time will tell
Also, my female is almost as big as my male (or - the male is just a little larger than the female), to me that means that the female is quite a bit older than the male who still has some growing to do while she is all grown up.

Tetratech - I hear you. I wish one could record the thinking process that goes through a hobbyists mind when he/she stands in front of a tank at the LFS that has a nice fish or fishes. In split-seconds, an attempt is made to shuffle existing fish around the tanks, try to see where these new ones could be squeezed in, and what not. Gladly, most of the time we can resist, otherwise all our tanks would be stocked like my 125G at Espei-Hay-Day.

Ingo

Edit: Robyn - Yup - blue line on lower lip, but I only saw it in the LFS, later he was too scared in the bag.

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I guess that means that you basically approve of that fish

Yep

Re: the fry, I've read the fry can be red, double red, triple red or orange flash & a mixture in the one brood, even if the parents are both confirmed as the same type eg double red, triple red, etc.

You wait till you see your male open his mouth. That is one big mouth on a little fish.

Maybe mine are somewhere there in the mix.

Who cares really what mix, as long as they are pretty & give their owner pleasure. Mine were sold as double red, but after reading up, I think they are triple red. Somewhere I read if tail, dorsal & anal fin are all red, then they are triple red. If tail & dorsal only are red, then double red.

But what the heck - they're pretty

Cheers
TW

Awesome Ingo, they are beautiful

When I was watching him it was the female that was hiding at first - he was going after his reflection in the tank like a betta Later she came out and he definetely made a few attempts to wrap his body around hers, and she was pretty accepting of it. Now, I'm pretty sure that's not necessarily the breeding act itself, but it seems like standard courtship behavior. Soon you'll have a harem!

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Back in the saddle!

Hey,

I am rich, rich, rich ( sounds familiar? )

If you saw them in the LFS, NowherMan6, then you remember maybe how much they cost , being not all that much cheaper than my Apisto viejita II pair.

Uh Robyn, we are going to have so much fun comparing notes, and all the arguments about what defines single, double, and triple reds .

Ingo

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I am rich, rich, rich

For the last time, you don't need to be rich to use ADA substrate!



Aaaanyway, that's pretty standard for set-pairs of apistos I think. If you go through a breeder online you'd pay maybe 12-15 for a pair, but then you have to add in 30 or so for shipping. It all evens out, just standard fare. They're hardy enough though, so I dont think it's a wasted investment.

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Back in the saddle!

LF,
What was the price tag on those guys? I was looking at some about a month a go at a fish store up north. I think their price was 14 per fish or 24 for a pair. Just wondering what it is like out your way.

Can't wait to see some more pictures. They are very nice fish. Someday I hope to get my hands on some but that might mean another tank set up. Oh darn....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Let's see Wings,

Trade in 30 Espei for $1 a piece, shell out another $20 = $50.

Interestingly, the two times I traded in Espei I always ended up with using the money to buy Apsitos.

Ingo

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and all the arguments about what defines single, double, and triple reds

Noooo, no arguments, just fun comparing notes. I'm very glad you have this fish, it is like confirming that my choice to buy this fish was a good one, now that you have the same fish.

I would like one or the other of ours to have babies though, to see if it is true that you can get all the different variants from one pair.

For the last time, you don't need to be rich to use ADA substrate

I am living proof of that fact, that's for sure.

Have fun

Cheers
TW

... is like confirming that my choice to buy this fish was a good one, now that you have the same fish

Hey, just because I have the fish doesn't mean that it was a good choice, although I am flattered by your statement.

I selected this one for a few reasons:

- A rather pretty Apisto
- One of the easiest to maintain
- One of the lesser shy ones
- The easiest to breed

At least that is what I was reading about them.

Ingo

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Tetratech - I hear you. I wish one could record the thinking process that goes through a hobbyists mind when he/she stands in front of a tank at the LFS that has a nice fish or fishes. In split-seconds, an attempt is made to shuffle existing fish around the tanks, try to see where these new ones could be squeezed in, and what not. Gladly, most of the time we can resist, otherwise all our tanks would be stocked like my 125G at Espei-Hay-Day.

I would love to put another tank in my "Fish-Kitchen" but I believe the inhabiants would end up on my dinner plate.
My wife has been a good sport allowing two tanks down there. So if I want more fish some will have to go:
On the possible moving list are:

- 4 rummynoses
Great fish only lost one since I started my 72g and that was in the first 2 weeks of setup
- 4 Black Neons
All 4 have been with my since I started the 72g.
- 5 Pencilfish
Great fish, haven't lost any since startup
Problem with all these fish is the kinda blend in and at the same time make the tank look to chaotic. If I move these I might take my 8 gold tetras out of my 12g and use the 12g to house a pair of rams or apistos.




My Scapes

Hm,

I may be wrong tetratech, but I think to remember that the male Apisto's territory requirement is approximately 2 square feet, which would not be given in the 12G. On the other hand, I don't know what the consequence of less space would be, maybe more aggression towards the female, or maybe the complete intolerance of any other moving creature. Also, I don't know if this applies to all Apistos or only to some of them.

Ingo

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Some apistos are more aggressive than others. Borelli's and tri's are smaller and less aggressive - they may work better than cac's.

A pair of cac's would work in a 12, but the way tetra has his set up now, with little breaking up of sightlines and virtually no plant cover (other than on the substrate), may not be the best for them. If it was more jungle like I'm sure it would work.

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Back in the saddle!

Working or not,

Here are a few shots of mine from tonight, just for the giggles. When I came home they both were more or less in hiding on opposite ends of the tank.

Later they came out and scavenged the substrate for snails and other goodies.

Here is the female at work:

Attached Image:

Female I

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As you can see, it appears as even she has blue lips.

Here is a better side shot that also shows off her blue face markings:

Attached Image:

Female II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

In this head-on shot one can clearly see her lower lip. I didn't know that females have that too. Hopefully I did not get a male of a different species by mistake.

That would be a bummer...

Attached Image:

Female III

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And here is a head-on shot of the male.

Also visible is his clearly blue lip.

He is only a bit larger than the female, which in turn has the size of a grown-up, pretty much the one of my female viejita. The male is much smaller than the male viejita.

Attached Image:

Male I

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So, how was that again?

If the anal, dorsal, and caudal fin are red then it is a Triple-Red?

Hm, he has red in all three, but there seems to be at least some yellow at the base of the dorsal and caudal fins. I wonder if that still counts:

Attached Image:

Male II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club