FishProfiles.com Message Forums

Glad you see the power of the darkside.

I sure do, as long as the dark side is still painted green and not actinic

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Update:

I did a 50% water change last night, although the water looked pretty clean to me. I decided on yesterday as it fell on a better day within the fertilizing routine. I finished two rounds of macros and micros by Tuesday so yesterday was a the start for the 3rd round, just like it would be on the weekly change. Friday, as usual, will be a fert rest day, and Saturday will see the next water change.

The plants are still growing strong, but I begin to see some white slime algae on the driftwood. I know that this is common and I am not too worried about it, and I remember Jeff telling me that it will either go away by itself within a few weeks or I could add shrimp or Otos and they would take care of it. But I assume at this point I should not add any animals and simply wait it out.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

but I begin to see some white slime algae

Well the good news is it's not algae. It's just some fungus from decomposing matter in the wood. Harmless. It may get quite fuzzy for a while then it will disappear.

Don't try to treat it, it will just return anyway. Just let it do it's thing and it will go away by itself in time.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Bensaf,

I actually knew that (believe it or not), but I am so used on reporting about all forms of algae that grow in my tank(s) that I just cannot seem to shake the habbit of calling everything that is not plant/fish/hardscape algae

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
Maybe you should go to AA (Algae Addicts). They might be able to help you there!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings, I hope that this will not have to happen

Anyway, following my 125G tradition, here is the first:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 1

The first week seems to have gone rather well with this tank and I cannot see any signs of algae yet . Actually, the one I expected, brown slime aka diatoms, is not here yet. The tank has received a 50% water change on Wednesday and I will keep these in-between changes up for the next few weeks. Of course it also received its weekly water change yesterday.

How is it going with the tank. Well you be the judge . Here is the tank right after setup.

Attached Image:

After Setup

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now this picture has been taken 3 days later and one can see that the white bacterial cloud is almost gone and that plant growth appears pretty strong.

Attached Image:

After 3 Days

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And this is the tank yesterday just before the water change. The Star Grass sure seems to be happy, even the Wisteria shows some measurable growth (plus a few additional stems from trimmings of the 125G). The tank is completely clear by now as well. The fungus on the wood is still there.

So, basically this means that the Star Grass has grown somewhere between 6 and 10 inches during one week. BTW, in the evening the plants had grown another 1" at least.

Attached Image:

After 7 Days, Yesterday

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a shot from one corner of the tank.It for sure looks already pretty full in there and maybe I will have to perform a mid-week unscheduled trimming to avoid shading.

Attached Image:

Corner Shot

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is a shot from the other corner. You may see all the bubbles on the glass and plants, that is from the water change. But the star grass was actually bubbling like mad for the rest of the day as well.

Attached Image:

Other Corner Shot

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a look at the tank from the main rear view. I notice that I will have to be carful not to neglect this side of the tank once I add the "real" plants to the tank. This side has a rather strong current generated by the spray bar, I will have to keep that in mind for the plants that will end up in the current.

Attached Image:

Main Back View

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

There is one thing here that concerns me a little, may it be for the lack of knowledge I have in this area. There seens to be a thin film of stuff on the surface of the tank, and because I pretty much have zero agitation it does not go away. I have heard of people using skimmers for their planted tanks, would that be the reason why? Who has some info on this?

Attached Image:

Stuff On Surface

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh, actually 3 of the more permanent residents of this tank have already moved in. No, not fish, but Blyxa . Two of them came lose in the big tank and the third one was beginning to be shaded by the Wisteria, so I decided to see how they would do in the new tank. This is why I got them in the first place. So far so good

Attached Image:

Blyxa

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the last picture for now, showing my current solution for the "bad" glass top situation. You may remember me mentioning that the AGA top cannot be used as it has the dark hinge pretty much in the middle of the top and as such it would generate shade in the tank with the light over the hinge). I took one of the two glass plates off the top (wasn't all that easy to pull it out of the hinge) and use it now to cover the middle of the tank only. This way I hope there will not be too much condensation that would reach the light unit above the glass.

I have to say that I was a little worried about the heat, but after a few hours the glass was still cold (cool). Also, there is a possibility that the narrow resting part on each end of the glass, and the glass being 35" long, that it may collapse from its own weight. Time will tell. I still may opt for a more permanent solution with a custon glass top.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Temp Glass Top

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Oh, and I almost forgot:

Last weeks light times were from noon to 7pm, means 7 hours only. I went ahead after this weekend and increased that duration to 7.5 hours and I plan on continuing this process weekly (increase by 0.5 hours) until I have reached 10 hours.

Sounds good?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That is quite a lot of growth in a week. You must be doing everything right. I'll be interested to see the answers you get about skimmers. We've put one in hubby's marine tank, but as it's operated by an airstone, I assume that type wouldn't be possible. It creates a lot of surface agitation.

Cheers
TW

You must be doing everything right

I guess one week is not enough time for me to start to do something wrong yet

But don't worry, if the past is any indication then soon I will start to mess up things

Thanks Robyn,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

Very nice pictures as always. It seems as if things are growing quite well for you and I hope that it keeps that trend.

I am having some of the same film on the suface of my tank too. A skimmer would probaby help but I would worry about losing CO2 with the use of one and just having extra junk in the tank doesn't make me happy.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Instead of a skimmer, why don't you get one of those ADA lily pipes? You can position them so they swirl the water down eliminating surface film.

Give our ole buddy Jeff a call.



Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

A skimmer would be overkill.

Aim the spray bar at a slight upward angle, just enough to gently ripple the surface and that will keep it away.

A more low tech solution would be Mollies or Guppies

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Thanks Guys,

I wish I had a chance to respond earlier, but my router in the house broke.

The last update was yesterday morning, but things happened afterwards:

First, take a look at the Star Grass group from around 5pm yesterday, just one day after the last pictures. It has grown some more yet again

Attached Image:

Loads of Star Grass

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You may have noticed it in that picture already, but here is a little more obvious shot.

ZERO SURFACE AGITATION AND MOVEMENT

I was shocked to find the whole surface to simply stand still, with loads of CO2 bubbles collection underneat.

Attached Image:

No Motion

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I had to go ahead and trim the Star Grass group. Once completed the surface started to move again and things are going better.

To your comments:

A lily pipe, yeah - $$$
Mollies and Guppies - Have Platies, don't want any of these in that tank
Angle Spray Bar - have thought about it, will try to see if feasible

Here is the tank as of 6PM last night:

Attached Image:

Latest Shot

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I have guppies in my tank and I still have this film. Not really too worried about it but its still there.

LF,
What are your plans for final plants in this tank?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

LF,
I've had that happen in my tank alot, where there is no surface movement. It almost looks like a frozen lake. The water is still moving under it and I've never noted a problem, but I do from time to time move my spray bar above the surface sometimes just to be on the safe side.



My Scapes

Thanks Wings and tetratech,

Movement kicked in again nicely when the plants were trimmed. As the future plants will not be that massive I am not too worried in the long run. Thanks tetratech, I find the "frozen lake" comparison rather fitting. In particular when you actually can see CO2 bubbles gliding along under the surface, like air bubbles under the ice.

I will try to angle the spray bar a little, but it is not that easy as the joints that give it its current position are fixed 90 degrees.

About the long term plants: Some small leaved stems or such (like helferi) in the two islands surrounded by Anubias and/or crypts. A massive lawn of foreground plants for the majority of the tank, like hair grass or something (HC would be great, but I would require too much ( $$$ ) to form a lawn right away (and it grows slowly). Then maybe the occasional Blyxa or other taller plant.

When do you guys think I should get started on moving towards the final layout?

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

HC would be great, but I would require too much ( $$$ ) to form a lawn right away (and it grows slowly

Not only that, but if you think Blyxa is a PITA to keep from floating up, just wait until you try HC


If everything is there and ready, LF, then why not start on the final layout now, or your next free weekend?

---

Back in the saddle!

then why not start on the final layout now

Well, first of all thanks for the input NowherMan6.

I thought the purpose of the fast growers was to ride in the tank, like a wild horse that needs to be tamed before you can put a saddle on it. So I was wondering if there is any timeline or other indicator when this horse would be ready.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Patience my young apprentice and you'll realize the power and beauty of the darkside.

My Scapes

So, after coming home last night I noticed that the surface agitation has almost come to a halt yet again. The little growth the plants did in that one day was enough. As I cannot continue to trim the plants on a daily base, I decided to angle the Spray bar a little:

Attached Image:

Angled Spray Bar

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This got things going a little, and albeit I see the surface move at a nice pace, the CO2 bubble trapping beneath it is still the came. I am wondering if this has a negative effect on the light that reaches the plants

The upper parts of the Star Grass look like this, but given my tiny CO2 bubbles all over the tank I don't know if this is pearling or CO2.

BTW - Bensaf will be proud of me as I have yet to measure anything in that tank

Attached Image:

Star Grass Pearling ???

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You haven't even tested your CO2? I guess it doesn't matter too much with having no fish there yet.

Can't wait to see the final product(on an after thought, is there ever a final product with this hobby?).

Thoughts for fish?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Nope Wings, never tested anything

I can't wait to see the final product (and I agree, final will never be achieved, but in this case I mean the more permanent scape and plants) either, but it will be a while.

About fish: at some point in this thread I stated this:
"Fishwise - for sure some Otos and maybe a school (espei come to mind, too many in the other tank) and a pair of cichlids, and some shrimpsters."

But I am not sure about anything anymore, I think I will keep it open for a while. As soon as the scape is more permanent I may add Otos and/or Shrimp though.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As soon as the scape is more permanent I may add Otos and/or Shrimp though.

Good move, especially with the shrimp. They should be the first things you add once you start adding permanent plants. Once a bit of algae starts to pop up add a whole boat load of amanos. Amazing shrimp, great cleaners and algae eaters. In terms of stocking, work your way out from the otos and shrimp.

---

Back in the saddle!

You have your spray bar vertically aligned in the water column while mine is horizontial at the waters surface. I guess there are advantages to either positioning. When I want a little surface agitation I simply pull mine up above the water surface.

Although I really like the shrimp I do find them to be more co2 sensititive. I've lost a few amanos in my 72g, but have not lost a single shrimp in my 12g since setting it up. Don't waste your time with Ghost shrimps they really are mostly used to feed fish on the darkside and do not live very long. The CRS would be beautiful in this setup but they are much smaller than the Amanos.

My Scapes

For decorative purposes later on cherries would be nice, but just for pure function you'd need 3X as many cherries as amanos = $$$

---

Back in the saddle!

For decorative purposes later on cherries would be nice, but just for pure function you'd need 3X as many cherries as amanos = $$$
LF's next tank is going to be a CRS Breeder Setup. Actually the CRS have been alot cheaper lately for some reason. Not really much difference in price between those and the Amanos in my area.

My Scapes

LF,

I couldn't help but thing about your new tank when seeing this setup on APC.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquascaping/27799-evolution-of-my-144l-38g-tank.html

The tank is about your size and features two hills. Obviously the tank looks beautiful and I'm not knocking the scape at all, but I'm torn between wondering what is more outstanding the scape or the photography. In other words is the scape really that good or is the photography, lighting, etc making it look even better?



My Scapes

In other words is the scape really that good or is the photography, lighting, etc making it look even better?

No, its the wave maker .

Thanks tetratech for the link, I find the tank sure nice looking. I have to say that my growth in the end should be more like his was in the beginning, not so many tall plants. Also, my challenge is harder as he has a back and I have only fronts .

Speaking of growth, my Star Grass reached the top yet again and slowed down the surface movement to a creep. Look further up on this page for a picture from 2 days ago, then compare to this one.

Attached Image:

All Grown Up (Again)

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

On the algae frontier, I begin to see small brownish areas on the Hygro leaves and on a few Star Grass leaves. I assume its diatoms or some for of nutrient defficiency, but most likely the first of these two options.

Attached Image:

Diatoms?

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So while talking about CRS. I now have 6 in my tank. The most I have found at one time is 3. What are you guys paying for them out east? My store is selling them for 2.99 each. Don't have any left because I bought half and sold the other.

How good are they on eating algea and such in your tanks?

Here is a neat shrimp link

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

How good are they on eating algea and such in your tanks?

I'm sure they're good, but you'll have to ask someone else.

CRS are quite small so unless you have a nano you would probably need an army of them to have any kind of real impact.

My Scapes

How big are yours? Mine are only about 3/8 inch.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi LF,
Ottos will eat the gathering diatoms. Circulation,
light, and above all - the availability of silica (SiO2)
especially in a new tank, is what causes a diatom bloom.

Water changes, primarily, will cut back on the silica and
more light, more circulation will eliminate the diatoms.

I noticed in the pictures of the link, that the water
was riled in the center, but try as I might, I could not
discern the cause. The input/output of the filter must
be well disguised.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Bensaf will be proud of me as I have yet to measure anything in that tank

Always been proud of you, young Grasshopper

I see the problem now with the spray bar, you are misting a la Barr. The surface will have a hard time moving.

I have my spray bar horizontal at the top of the side glass, angled very slightly upwards, so the entire lenght of the surface gets getle movement. Never have any problems with film on the top.

But I do have my diffuser at the opposite side way down with a small powerhead with spray bar to circulate the co2 bubbles. This is almost invisible in my particular set up but would be an eyesore in yours where front and back are going to be visible.

Looks like pearling to me. The co2 bubbles won't stick to the top side of a leaf, they are oxtgen bubbles coming from the plant.

That also looks like diatoms, time for Ottos ! Better to introduce now to keep the diatoms at bay. That way they can eat it pretty much as it appears. Diatoms also excrete some silica so it becomes a viscious circle and the diatom bllom lasts longer if they are allowed to explode.

The tank tetra linked to is a beauty and pretty much what I had in mind with your wood and rocks. Lots of hardscape being very prominent. Notice how he has the rocks arranged as a platform for the wood.

BTW the rippling effect - easy. Use a hair dryer. That's what they do to create the affect in photo's.There wouldn't be that much movement normally.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

time for Ottos

Thanks Bensaf, I will see what I can do.

My concern is that one thing is for sure: this tank will see an overhaul that at the least will include the removal of all plants (maybe in two phases) and most likely also some re-arrangement of the rocks and wood. In general, I would rather do this before any fish are added, but I also think that the time for this event is not here yet.

Also, I think I will have to measure at least my CO2 (ph and KH) before adding any fish as I assume I have a pretty high reading right now. So - there goes the no measuring

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

My concern is that one thing is for sure: this tank will see an overhaul that at the least will include the removal of all plants (maybe in two phases)

I would do this in many phases over an extended period of time. Try working one small section at a time. No big changes, just alot of smaller ones that add up to the eventual scape.

My Scapes

I hear you tetratech,

The thing is though that I may feel to urge to get more out of the radioactive wood, I am sure I don't have it arranged as good as it could be. This means that at least half of the tank at any point would be involved in the change.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nothing much new to report.

I did my 50% half week water change last night. With the water level low I touched the brown spots on the Hygro leaves and they come off easily - meaning it is Diatoms. So maybe today or tomorrow I will head out and try to get some Otos, although the last time I was at the LFS they only had small ones, and we know what that means: high rate of death.

After the water change the Star Grass had huge bubbles of air sticking to them, sure more than ever before (including post water change). Meaning, plants seem to be doing well.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

So I went to the LFS tonight and came home with 6 Otos for the tank, they are in the middle of the acclimatisation process.

I pretty much ignored all the rules as I cannot see where else I would get any Otos soon (and we want to eat away the diatoms ):

- They are the smallest Otos on sale I have ever seen
- They were in the store since yesterday

I would say I am really lucky if 3 will survive, keep your fingers crossed.

I have one shot of them in the bag, now the lights are out and I am not going to turn them back on. Here they are:

Attached Image:

New Otos

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good luck with the otos. I guess you've seen Cali's tips for helping otos survive? So far out of my 6 that I bought, I still have 5. Fingers crossed, for both our otos.

Cheers
TW

Sure did I see Cali's tips, a loooong time ago. I read his article with great interest and was rather touched when he wrote about losing one of his original batch many years later

You know that I have 6 Otos in my 125. They are the survivors of the initial meltdown after purchase when I got I think 13 or so

Thanks for keeping your fingers crossed with me (I will do the same for you ),

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

When I came home from work today, all 6 Otos were still alive and kicking. They sure have a hard time swimming against the current on the side where the spray bar is, but they seem to enjoy doing so anyways.

I also believe to recognize a clear difference in the amount of brown stuff on the Hygro, much less today that yesterday. Now I begin to worry that they will run out of food.

Here is the only good shot of one of them that I got so far, compare its size to the tubing and size of the diffuser. It is tiny Tim

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tiny Oto

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update - Week 2

This week has seen additional growth in the tank, things seem to be going well. I maintained the mid-week water change to keep things going and on Thursday I added 6 tiny Otos to keep the diatoms at bay.

I know it may be a little bit early for a long photo review of the tanks development, but I find the growth of the Star Grass (in particular) so amazing that I am doing it anyway.

Here is the tank after setup, 2 weeks ago:

Attached Image:

After Setup

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just 3 days later, the Star Grass has grown in already and the tank started to clear up. The wood became more visible and one can see that it is a beauty. Also, the Wisteria started to show signs of growth:

Attached Image:

After 3 Days

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

After one week the Star Grass reached the top and a few stems needed to be cut back already to maintain the water flow on the surface (that problem has later been resolved with the adjustment of the spray bar). Also, the Wisteria and the Hygro are growing nicely and Blyxa has been added.

Attached Image:

After One Week

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

After one and a half weeks the growh of the Hygro is pretty obvious. This group had not seen a trimming (and doesn't receive one so far at all).

Some more of the Star Grass stems were trimmed off and planted wherever I could find a spot in the tank, just to keep it filled up.

Attached Image:

After One and a Half Weeks

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the tank now after 2 weeks, before a Star Grass trimming and the water change. As you can see, growth has been so well that the lower parts on the Star Grass side became all shaded.

Attached Image:

This Weekend - Before Trimming

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A major trim was in order. Almost all Star Grass stems were removed, the bottoms disposed off, and the tops replanted. The Hygro group has not been touched, but I assume that no later than the next weekend I will have to do some trimming there as well.

Just maybe I will order some "real" plants for the tank during this week and start to replace the temps. What do you think? Too early?

Attached Image:

Tank Now

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a shot of the tank after the trimming from the back side. The current there is rather strong and all Star Grass is blown to the right side, around the right hand corner. I have to make sure that the final plants in that area are more solid so they don't bend over too much.

Attached Image:

Tank Back View

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the Blyxa that has been added a week ago. At least it hasn't been uprooted 50 times during that week, except for the taller one in the back of these 2 smaller ones. That one came lose once and was easily pushed back in.

Attached Image:

Blyxa

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

All Otos are still alive, although it takes me about 10 minutes each time when I attempt to find them all. These little buggers are zooming through the tank so fast that it is hard to evaluate if I see a new one or one that had just moved from one side to the other.

Here are 4 of them on the glass.

Attached Image:

4 Otos

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

By now I have ZERO diatoms visible on the plants, in particular the Hygor leaves that I showed in an earlier post are spotless. This of course makes me worried about possible food sources running out for the Otos. Last night, just before lights out, I added two slices of cucumber to the tank, maybe they will nibble on them. Anyone ever has tried to feed Otos cucumbers?

Here are two Otos a little closer:

Attached Image:

2 Otos

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the Star Grass about 6 hours after the Water Change. The pearls during that time got bigger and bigger, to the point where they created so much buoyancy that a few of the freshly trimmed Star Grass stems came lose and floated to the surface. Darn Pearling

Attached Image:

Bubbles

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, a close-up of the Hygro leaves. I am not showing this picture because of how clean the leaves are (Oto food), but because I think to remember that curled leaves like the ones on the left and right are a sign of some form of deficiency. I remember that Bensaf once explained to me something about old leaves falling off and stuff (found it on page 76 of my 125G log), but I could not find the reference to the curling.

Does anyone know anything about it?

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Curled Hygro Leaves

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo

Naturally I don't know enough to answer your questions, but I'll be interested to hear how your otos go with cucumber. I worry about mine too, as I see no algae & have never seen them eating the wafers I drop in.

I like ALL your pictures (as always), but you know, I really like the shots of "3 days" & "one Week" for some reason. Maybe because your nice wood shows up more clearly.

Anyway, looking good.

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn for the input

Yeah, the earlier pictures show the wood the best (so far, of course) as the water is already pretty clear and the growth is not all that strong yet. This should be a precursor for things to come once the final version of plants are is in the tank. Hopefully I don't clutter it up too much, but knowing myself I will have a hard time to find the right balance between wood and plants (and rocks).

Thanks again,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
When I had ottos a while ago, I would blanch the
Cucumbers and then put them in the tank weighted down
to a stone with a rubber band. Within a short while, the
piece of cucumber was covered with ottos and snails all
after the banquet.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the info Frank.

I simply cut off a slice of cucumber, peeled it, then strapped it with thread to a small rock, and added it to the tank. Today, I saw one or the other Oto eat on it, so I guess it was working at least to some degree. Unlike for you, I could not create an Oto frenzy though

Question: How long can I leave the slices in there before they start to foul up the water?

On a different note: Would you folks be so kind and look at my 20G Log in the Aquascaping Forum? I have something new there On Page 5. Also, I would appreciate if a Moderator or Administrator who may read this would be so nice and move that log (and please the 29G log at the same location) to this forum. I would really like to have all my logs over here in the Planted Forum, that is more where they belong to. Thanks in advance, to the mods for moving the stuff and anybody else who may add a comment to it.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That particular type of curling seems to be normal on the Augustifolia. I always have one or two leaves that do that. Not sure why, but it seems pretty harmless. They do say the Augustifolia appreaciates a bit of flow to spread the leaves out. Maybe the curled ones aren't getting enough ? Nothing to worry about though.

---

Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

LF,
I have never done the veggie thing but I am pretty sure that you don't want to leave them in for much more than a day.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Bensaf for the update on the leaf shape. I remember that a few leaves from the original branches that I purchased had the same curling, but none of the new ones in the 125G did. As you know, the hygro in the 125 does not sit in a current but on the rather still far end of the tank. Good to know it is not a defficiency though.

Thanks Wings for the info on the cucumber slices, I guess I better take them out tonight and put new ones in.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yup,

I guess that 2 days are the longest one can leave a slice of cucumber in a tank. The 2 slices did not look all that good anymore when I came home from work tonight (yuk). But they must have still been edible as 3 Otos were munching away on them. Nevertheless, I replaced them with new slices.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for keeping us updated with the veggies. Hope there are no loses with your oto's yet. I picked up 6 for my tank last thursday. I know exactly what you mean about them being small. When they swim next to the grand parents they really show their size.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I picked up 6 for my tank last thursday

That is when I picked up mine as well

I don't know if I still have 6, but I haven't seen one stuck to the filter intake yet. Last night I counted a max of 5, but they move around to fast and often that I can be happy to see 3 in one shot.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The tank looks nice there Ingo, especially the driftwood and ecocomplete. I'm going to be switching over to that when I start up my tank(which I'm starting to think will be a 50). Anybody want a 5 gallon bucket full of Flourite?

I think the rocks aren't visible enough, but I'm not sure if that's the plan in the future though. Can't wait for the "real" plants to see what you have in mind for this tank.

One last thing....no/few fish and no real algae to speak of. I'm beginning to think tetratech has a point.

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matt,
Where are your from again?

So fish poop algea?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Matty,

Thanks for the input

Some comments:

- I am currently in love with Eco Complete, so much that I soon will upgrade my 29G, which will have to move to the basement anyway.

- I agree with you on the rocks, actually your opinion is shared by Bensaf who pointed it out to me already, so you are in good company

- Real Plants: Anubias, some taller ones like Narrow Leaf Fern, both on the wood islands. Then grass on the fields with a few taller ones, like Blyxa, to break the flow a little.

- Sure does tetratech have a point, but we don't have to tell him that

Thanks Matty,

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Matt,
Where are your from again?

So fish poop algea?

I'm from Buffalo, NY.

And yes, fish do poop algae.....indirectly of course.

I agree with you on the rocks, actually your opinion is shared by Bensaf who pointed it out to me already, so you are in good company

oops...I didn't know this subject had already been touched on. I guess this means I have to go back and read all 6 pages again.

- Real Plants: Anubias, some taller ones like Narrow Leaf Fern, both on the wood islands. Then grass on the fields with a few taller ones, like Blyxa, to break the flow a little.

Sounds nice.....So the "temp" plants are really staying in the tank, just in a reduced form, or are you pulling the hygro and star grass out alltogether?

Sure does tetratech have a point, but we don't have to tell him that

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

or are you pulling the hygro and star grass out alltogether?

They will all go, as sad as it is. Overall they will not fit into the vision.

And you don't have to read all entries, as long as you only write good comments

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

So I finally got a picture of the Oto eating the cucumber myself, after Robyn posted hers I sure have to follow suit here .

Also, I accounted for all 6 Otos, I found 4 of them eating cucumber and 2 near by. Good to know they are still around.

Here is one of them:

Attached Image:

Oto Eats Cucumber

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Otos are definitely the acrobats of planted aquaria. Here's one doing a balancing act on a leaf of my aromatica.

BTW - I'm sure the veggies are a good treat but my otos have done fine with almost no additional feeding even in my protist-free tank



Attached Image:


My Scapes

I think that they are more into eating pre-algea. The stuff we probably can't see.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I think that they are more into eating pre-algea. The stuff we probably can't see.

Oh man - now we are going to get a pre-algae breakout in one of LF's tanks.....I know it

Does that count as a good comment LF

---

Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Does that count as a good comment

You be the judge

So far it seems like this tank is spot clean. The few areas where there were any diatoms, mainly some leaves of the Hygro, are spotless by now. The Otos must really have been hungry.

And about the pre-algae outbreak: as long as I cannot see it I don't mind it at all. I am crazy, but not that crazy

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This week has been a very busy one for me, with regards to work, and as such I did not have the time to do a mid-week water change. I hope this doesn screw things up. I added my ferts though. The one thing I noticed, and I mentioned it before, is the collection of stuff on the surface. While I was adding my TMG on Thursday, I was washing out the measuring glass in the tank. I moved it along the surface and captured quite a bit of the stuff in the glass. It is white and quite solid, little bits of it fell into the water and sank down (maybe 1mm long thin strands formed).

I will have to trim the plants (Hygro) some more to keep the surface movement up as it is halted yet again, even with the angled spray bar.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update - Week 3

As mentioned in the last entry above, the week was a busy one for me at work with little time left for the tanks. I skipped the water change during mid week and I think that it should not be a problem. I fed some cucumbers to the Otos and I think they are doing fine now, in particular because they managed to eat 2 complete slices within a day and a half.

Review, here is the tank after setup:

Attached Image:

3 Weeks Ago

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A week later, in particular the Star Grass had grown nicely and requried some pruning. The Hygro was getting taller as well, and so did the Wisteria.

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last weekend brought with it the major trimming of the Star Grass group as it reached the surface all over the place. The Hygro wasn't touched.

Attached Image:

1 Week Ago

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This weekend, the plants in the tank grew so tall yet again that surface movement had completely stopped. The gunk on it makes me a little worried as I assume it would stop the oxygen exchange. Is that right?

Here is the tank before this weekend's maintenance:

Attached Image:

Before Trimming

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As you can see, the Hygro is creating a lot of shade, and so do some of the Star Grass stems. I removed almost all Hygro stems and trimmed off the buttoms and replanted the tops. Further, I removed some of the Star Grass stems that melted because of shading, and others because they looked too ugly mixed into the Hygro.

I don't think I have to worry about not having enough plant mass

Attached Image:

Tank Now

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, a few into the tank from the other side. This time around I remembered to turn off the lights in the 125G behind it first to avoid the reflection of it in the glass.

Also, yesterday in the morning I noticed that the CO2 hose came off the diffuser and was bubbling straight into the water column. This may have been the case for a max of about 1 day so I don't think it should create too much of a problem.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank From Back View Now

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

don't think I have to worry about not having enough plant mass

What plant mass? Tank is getting thick! How soon until the real plants show up?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

How soon until the real plants show up?

Maybe in about 2 weeks, but I am not in a rush, to be honest. I will have to order the plants first, then store them in the 20QT until the weekend, plant half of them and keep on storing the rest.

Ingo

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I see, Its a good thing you don't have any fish in lock down right now. Going to be a pretty big plant order I have a feeling.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Weekly Tank Update - Week 4

Growth in this tank is really nice. Once again, I could not perform the mid-week water change as I was really busy at work. I guess I will cancel this one and restart it when the final plants are coming.

First I will show some pictures and then I would like to get some input from you folks about the transition to the final plants.

Here is the tank as of last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And this is how the tank looked this weekend before the water change and trimming.

All grown up, the Star Grass was so tall that it was growing along the surface and shaded itself and other lower plants:

Attached Image:

Before Trimming

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The size of this tank allows me to take care of individual Star Grass stems, unlike the huge mass that I have in the 125G.

Here, I go and trim each stem while it is still planted. I cut off any tops that I seem worthy to be replanted, and after all these are done I dispose of the bottoms that are still in the tank. This is also made easier by the fact that I can work on the tank from all sides.

Here is the tank after the trimming:

Attached Image:

After Trimming and Water Change

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of a Star Grass stem in the evening. This is the only tank where I can see pearling. Oh, BTW, so far my CO2 tube came off the diffuser 3 times, I think I will have to somehow tie it onto it. How would that be done?

Attached Image:

Pearls

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Since about two weeks I see some small amount of hair algae on the uppermost parts of the branches. I am not too worried about that, as long as it doesn't spread to the lower regions (which may be possible when the fast growers come out).

This branch is about 2 inches below the surface, so it is really close to the light:

Attached Image:

Hair Algae on Driftwood

---

Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club