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  L# LITTLE_FISH 40G Breeder Log
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mattyboombatty
 
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GEAARG!!

I just deleted my post on accident.

Errmm lesse if I can remember what I just posted. Yes you got it right about the Degassing method now. I think your other test was a bit skewed because you used tap, and you alter your tank water. That's not the right way to test. You gotta test the tank water twice, once before and once after 24 hrs. Or test the degassed waterafter 24 hrs and then take a sample from your tank at the same time to compare side by side.

In regards to the apistos, I think the females are still young. Not small, but really too young to breed successfully. The male is trying to court one of them and that's why he doesn't really want the other around. If I remember right the harem breeders will take turns with the females. Not all at once but one after the other. So I don't think it's anything to worry about it such a large tank, unless it's disrupting meals for the odd female out.

Oh yea and please go vote for my new plant profile; E. tenellus.



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Post InfoPosted 29-Sep-2006 21:49Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
Just test the damn water and drop it by about 1 pt ph by slowing adjusting your co2 output. make sure your watch your fish by living the lifestyle for one weekend

BTW - Aquarium Adventure just got in Agazzi double-red, orange hi-fin cacs (looked just like yours) and your viejia. I don't know if the viejia were 1,2 or 3, they are not that sophicated. There's a note on the tank that says consult cichlid book which you could find in the store's library. Yes all the aquarium has a library with a couch.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 29-Sep-2006 23:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks to both of you

I tested the sample water from the tank last night, just before lights out. I had a ph of 6.4. so we will see what the ph of that sample is tonight.

On the Apisto frontier: The "selected" female is clearly defending some area in the right hill. She comes out sparely and when she does she is all dark. The only time she shifts colors to a more pale yellow (within 1 to 2 seconds, btw) is when the male is really near by. Unfortunately, during feeding she ventured off and I saw the other female sneak into that cave twice . The third time around she was there and chased her away. Looks like breeding to me, albeit I have no idea if this is only a training session or the real deal.

Ingo

EDIT: Tetratech - yeah, I have seen their library, very nice touch. Did you feel the urge to buy more apistos?


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Post InfoPosted 30-Sep-2006 13:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Quick Update:

Because of scheduling issues, I took made the second ph test 23h after the initial one. I don't think it will make much of a difference, right?

Anyway, I got a blue color that I would place between 7.2 and 7.6, there are no color steps on the chart between these two values.

Let us assume it is 7.4, ok? Means one above what it was last night. That means now 30ppm, right? Sounds good to me. When I measured my CO2 directly I came up with about 38ppm minimum. Sounds about the same.

Opinions?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 01:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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It wouldn't hurt to bump it up just a little bit. I think I am running mine at around 48 or a bit higher for my night time target. Fish seem to be fine.

For you I am guess a Ph of 6.4 or 6.5 would be fine.

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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 03:25Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Hi LF, that will be exciting if you have eggs already. If she's young, don't worry if the first bunch don't make it though.

Keep us posted on the plants & the romance in your tank.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 13:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Wings - my ph at night is 6.4, so I would be right on, right?

Robyn - Yeah, I am not getting my hopes on fry up as of yet, although the female is for sure defending something in that hill and barely comes out at all, usually only to chase the other female away or to grab a quick bit of food.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 16

This week has seen the major cutting back of the bolbitis. I am not convinced that the issues with it came from bad water parameters, although all signs of algae on it indicate so. Bolbitis is known to take quite a while to settle. I assume that the unsettled plant was not able to provide the leaves with whatever they need as the plant in itself used it all up to settle on the wood. Time will tell, so far the new growth looks still good.

Here is the tank last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend



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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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And here is the tank now. As you may notice, I did a few more minor changes to the plants. I removed all micro swords from the front left and replaced them with the last Blyxa I had in the 125G (was always intended to end up in the 40G), and two stems of Wisteria.

Attached Image:

Now



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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a closer look at this group. Notice the Oto in the center of the picture on the substrate. If you have any idea how large Blyxa is then you can imagine how small the Oto still is. I have been very lucky with them so far, I would have never thought that I can manage to keep them all alive.

Attached Image:

Closer Look



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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I wish I could show you a picture of the "breeding" female (or whatever she is doing in that hill), but she barely comes out. When she does she is almost all black, the warning or scared color of the Apistos that I have. And usually she is chasing the other female away at high speed.

The male now begins to switch between chasing that female and courting her. Here she is, showing some yellowing as well:

Attached Image:

Other Female



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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH

Look at bottom of previous page to view small changes in the scape

One of the best things of having females in the tank is that the male really likes to spread his finnage. This makes him so much more handsome looking

Here he is:

Attached Image:

Male Cac



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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Here he is, discovering that the "other" female is coming very close to the "nest" of the breeding female. He sneaks up on her very slowly. As you may see, when you compare her coloration in this shot to the one two above, the black markings on her side are gone. I am amazed how fast they can change their looks.

Attached Image:

Watch Out Where You Are Going



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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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On the other hand, here he is, but this time it is more courtship than chase. There, her black side area is visible again.

This is it for this weeks update,

Have Fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Hello There, Honey



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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Ingo,
The tank looks much better with the removal of the microswords. I like the different texures of leaves, etc around the wood. I'm not sure about the blyxa center, yet. It might be too tall and take away from the wood focals.

Your male cac sure is flaming Not that there's anything wrong with that.

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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I'm not sure about the blyxa center, yet.
Good point tetratech, and thanks for the input.

I am glad that this tank allows me to perform small changes without having to mess with the rest of the tank (unlike the big tank). I can imagine that the one Blyxa right in the center might be the culprit for the fusing of the two groups (see picture), maybe I will move it in a while, when I know better how the rest of the tank will be structured. I come more and more to the conclusion that the micro sword was not a good choice for this tank.

About the Apisto: I am curious, did the one that they sell as a high fin in your LFS have an even longer dorsal fin?

Ingo

Attached Image:

Remove This One?



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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 16:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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6.4 ph with a Kh of 5 gives you 60ppm CO2. I think that is pretty good. How are your fish with it? I don't know if you would want to push it much more.

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Post InfoPosted 02-Oct-2006 03:16Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Your male cac sure is flaming


I think you mean metrosexual, he likes females, but likes to look pretty too.

Nice update on the cacs, LF. It looks like they are starting to settle in nicely. Soon they'll all have their own positions in the heirarchy and everything will go smoothly, hopefully even the breeding.

From what I can tell it looks like the bolbitus does have some nice new growth on it. Those are nice when they settle in and get healthy. I hope they make it for you.

Sounds like the CO2 is up where it should be. I guess that leaves the NJ tap water.



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Post InfoPosted 02-Oct-2006 05:10Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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How are your fish with it? I don't know if you would want to push it much more.
Yeah, I think I have enough evidence to show that I am at least at 30ppm, if not more. Fish so far are fine, but I would like to test the "not-so-settled-plant --- and-therefore-algae" theory a little longer. If all else fails then I could maybe try other things.

Matty - yes, the new bolbitis growth is looking good so far. I really hope that the plant will do better now, but one thing I will have to wait out a for a while is to see what happens to leaves once they reach the hight of the original ones. Thanks for the thumbs up on the Cacs ,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Oct-2006 16:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Last night, I studied the behavior of the Apistos some more. Now I am thinking that there may not be any actual breeding.

The second female made the left hill her home now. Whenever the male swims by she comes out and presents herself sideways to him, and as soon as he comes close she seem to try to lure him into the cave under the hill.

Sometimes, when he is over the right hill, the first female shows similar behavior, although she seems to be more eager to get back into the cave.

Now I assume that this is how female Cacs behave in general, finding their spot for a potential spawn and then trying to get a male to come.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Oct-2006 13:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I didn't really think they would already be breeding, but it seems like everybody is getting ready and settled in. I say give them some time. It's also very important they are fed well, with food almost always available. This is kind of opposite of what you want in a nice planted tank though. Situations like this always make me wish that protein skimmers worked on FW tanks. So maybe if they don't breed with regular feedings after a couple months then maybe kick it up a bit if you don't mind the possibility of extra algae from the increased feedings. Maybe even go to the live baby brine shrimp. That usually gets fish pretty perky.



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Post InfoPosted 03-Oct-2006 16:18Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I think it was Ben that was talking about some people using skimmers on their FW planted tanks. I would have to do some digging around to find out what exacly it was about but I think it had to do with the scum layer you sometimes get on the tank. Right now I don't really have to time or energy to look it up but I thought I would throw it out there.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Oct-2006 13:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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That's a surface skimmer. It pulls water off the top instead of taking water from the middle of the column. Yep, it's used to get rid of that surface scum. A protein skimmer is a totally different story and operates on increased surface tension of salt water. It makes lots of little bubbles and proteins rideon those bubbles into a collection cup. The proteins will contain nitrogenous wastes and Phosphates and things not yet broken down into ammonia and other simple wastes.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Oct-2006 16:05Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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That's a surface skimmer ... A protein skimmer ...
That is why it is good to have a dark side person here in the forum

On the tank side, there is nothing new to report. The right hill female barely comes out of her cave while the left hill female is obviously trying to get the male to come into the cave with her, which he doesn't. She switched colors really quickly from a drab gray to a medium yellow (not as bright as my viejita female is all the time) when the male is near by.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 05-Oct-2006 18:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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That's a surface skimmer.


Thanks Mr. Darkside! What would we do with out you!

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Post InfoPosted 06-Oct-2006 13:56Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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What would we do with out you!


Try to get rid of surface scum with a $100 SW contraption?





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Post InfoPosted 06-Oct-2006 15:19Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
Try to get rid of surface scum with a $100 SW contraption?





:: calls BigAls to cancel order ::









Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 06-Oct-2006 15:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Well,

I am a father again



When I came home tonight the female of the right hill was out more often than before, but mostly active all the way to the right of the tank. Upon closer inspections I found her hovering over a group of wigglers. Hard to tell how many are there, I think to have seen maybe 5

I know, it will be hard for these little guys to make it, but at least my guessing on what is going on was correct. The little ones are maybe 1mm long and white, occasionally lifting themselves off the ground about an half an inch or so. This is also the first time for me that I see a mother fish in action, picking up one guy that strayed too far from the spot where the others where and then spitting him back out into the center of the group.

I tried to get a shot of it, but it is really hard. Here is a picture as good as it gets for the time being. The white thing in the circle is one fry.

Question:
Should I do a water change on the tank tomorrow?

Ingo

Attached Image:

Fry in Circle



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Post InfoPosted 06-Oct-2006 23:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
I'd pass on the water change. Many times the parents
perceive the ruckus as a threat and they actually eat
their fry.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 07-Oct-2006 00:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Congratulations grandpa. I had a sneaky feeling this was what was going on. My female became scarce during the egg guarding period too. Came out for food & short appearances, but mainly was unseen till she brought her brood out. It makes the tank really interesting when you are watching her with them. I could watch mum & fry for ages - but then, maybe I need to get a life.

The advice I got when I had my apisto fry was that they require really clean water & that you do frequent small changes, but take it from the top water column. No gravel vacuuming & such. If you are not target feeding with BBS, the water issue may not be so crucial for you. Usually, if you are target feeding them BBS 3 times a day, there is waste & you need to clean it. If you are just going to let things happen, as they happen & let the fry try to find food in the tank, I don't think frequent cleaning is required. My females never ate their fry (that I saw) but I know that it does happen. Some say even the sudden turning on & off of the lights can spook her into making such a mistake. That was why I put a little moon light there. You can either have it going the whole time the other lights are off (it helps her to keep away the other female, if she is a fry eater). Or you could just have it go on for a little bit before & after the main lights turn on & off. The change over then is not so sudden.

5 or 6 was all I got from my girl's 1st try, but her next try was just over 20.

Fingers crossed for you Ingo. Keep us posted on this exciting development. I hope some make it.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 07-Oct-2006 08:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks Frank and Robyn,

I will take a closer look at the situation today and decide on the fly if I should do a water change or not. I certainly would not like to risk algae issues just because there may be a chance that some fry are still alive. If I do a water change then I will get the water from the top of the tank.

I am also thinking about soaking some flakes in water to almost dissolve them and then use a dropper to spot feed the mix.

I will keep you posted,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Oct-2006 12:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Hey congrats Ingo. Looks like the females were a little older than I thought. I agree that frequent water changes are the way to go. BBS just fed in general would be a good idea IMO. The adults will eat it too. For the planted tank, I'd just feed it sparsely though, like you said overfeeding is going to cause algae, unless you want to go ahead with the breeding that is.

So I don't know if we got an answer of if you were going to let them try to find food on thier own or if you were going to pamper them?



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Post InfoPosted 07-Oct-2006 16:21Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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So I don't know if we got an answer of if you were going to let them try to find food on thier own or if you were going to pamper them?
Given that I am not in posession of BBS, the answer is simple, they are on their own .

It worked with the Espei, but of course I saw the major population explosion in that tank when there was still some diatoms available to munch on.

We will see what happens, and yes, I will do a water change today. Maybe I even continue some replanting on the opposite side of the tank, this may stir up some eatable gunk for the fry. But I think I have currently no more plants available to replace the micro sword. I will see.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Oct-2006 16:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Well, here is the good news and the bad news:

Good: the water change went well, I could not see any issues with the female.

Bad: now I see that the male has found the fry and he finds them tasty

I only see 5 left where there were at least around 10 a few hours ago.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Oct-2006 23:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Naughty daddy

Did the mum give him "what for" for his error. Usually both are good parents, so that's a shame. Are you sure dad ate them - did you see it? These fry are very fragile & not easy to raise from what I've been told & what I've found by experience. If you saw him red handed having a snack there can be no doubt, but if not, he may not be to blame. Remember, in the end all of mine were removed to grow out tanks (by the fish guy & some by me). One by one, they just died.

Also, do you have frozen BBS over there? I have found one brand that sells it & have used it. I think live BBS stimulates fry more with their swimming, but the frozen will still move around a little with the current - but the waste does tend to sink.

Re softening the flakes. You'll still need to crumble the flakes really well before you soak them. These guys have tiny, tiny mouths.

Don't be downhearted if none of the remaining 5 make it. Didn't take long for this batch to arrive, so I'm sure it won't take long for the next batch either.

Good luck & keep us posted.

Cheers
TW
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Robyn,

Yeah, I have seen it . The female did flash him to go away, but when he intruded anyway she was overwhelmed and let him have his pickings. Just before dinner last night I did not see any fry anymore

Weekly Tank Update - Week 17

Not much has happend with this tank during the last week, except that my theory on breeding activity has been validated. But, as stated above, it went as fast as it came. On a positive note, the other female stays now mostly inside the hill on the left, making me believe she is only a few days behind the one on the right. How many batches will the male eat? I am considering removing him if he keeps on doing that.

I did some minor changes to the tank during the maintenance though, you will see them in a later picture.

Here is the full tank now:

Attached Image:

Now



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Here is a close-up of the nest of the fry, with the female over it. At this point there were still a few fry in there, but they are sooooo small that they don't show in the shot. BTW, this is not the spot where the eggs were, they were hidden much deeper inside the hill. She brought the fry out there for whatever reason.

Attached Image:

Female



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Here is the part that I changed this weekend. I removed even more micro swords and replaced them with some very small klippings of Hygro that I had left from the 125G trimming. They are now lined up on the left short tank side:

BTW, behind the rock is the cave of the other female.

Attached Image:

New Area



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Here is a full shot of the tank in a slight angle to show the depth a little better. BTW, algae has this week not been a major issue, the new bolbitis growth still seems fine, although it is not as high as the old one yet.

Attached Image:

Front Angle



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Here is the center area of the tank from the front, with the one fish in it that makes me a little angry these days. As pretty as he is, seems like his belly has more to say than his parental istincts. I wonder if the water change had something to do with it as before he never got close to the fry.

Attached Image:

Male in Center



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Last picture, a look from the back of the tank, also showing the 125 and the 29

I think within the next few weeks I will keep on reducing the micro swords until there are none left. For this tank it was certainly the wrong plant.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Back and Other Tanks



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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
That is too bad that he is a fry eater, instead of working as a team with wife no. 1. Maybe as the female matures, she will become confident enough not to allow him to do this. Matty believes she is young I think, so she probably needs to mature a bit more & get used to the idea of defending - even against her larger mate.

Lets see how he does with wife no. 2.

My favourite shot is the tank's frontal angle. I like the little triangle of space in between --- what are they --- the micro swords? If so, I hope you leave these ones in the tank. This is a really nice looking tank.

Cheers
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Thanks Robyn,

Yeah, let us hope they will beat the crap out of him if he tries that again.
what are they --- the micro swords?
That would be blyxa, you have it as well

Thanks for the compliments,

Ingo


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That would be blyxa, you have it as well


So the micro swords are to the left & right?

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Robyn,

If you look at the last picture, labeled "Back and Other Tanks", you will see the micro swords on the left third and the right-most areas. The blyxa in the middle is separating the swords.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I like all the angles Ingo . The one with the other tanks behind it is really cool.

I'd say give them a few tries, maybe don't try to sneak in a water change this time and see what happens.

As for the new scape, I'm not sure that the hygro will be the best on the open veiwable side, that stuff can get so hairy as to block out the view from that side. But I'm sure it will fill that space functionally as it's a fast grower. Maybe if you keep it cut short like it is now, it could continue to look great there. You're right about the microswords. They look to me like they keep growing up as well. Weird plant, I can't say I ever cared for it, not just in your tank, in mine too. Mine was even starting to spread out and I still took it out. Blah.

I agree about the blyxa. I still need to get myself some of that. I'm just going to wait until I kick the algae.

Your tank on the other hand, looks very algae free. Very nice.



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Just wrote a whole post and then deleted it

Basically - Tank looks FABULOUS. ]


please can I have your permission to print off some of the photos in this thread to show the guy at my LFS?

I won't copy it but its looks so nice and well can I please?

Its a little bigger then my tank but it gives me a vague plan.

GFG

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Thanks everybody,

Matty - yeah, the hygro will not look good over time in that spot, I am 100% with you. But, having had some clippings from the 125G I thought it looks for the time better than the micro sword does. Yes, when I pulled out my sword I had up to maybe 8 inches of runners hanging on it.

The female Apisto has abandoned the breeding spot and is courting the male again. I guess this means that I can be certain that there are no survivors. The other female is trying now, we will see how that goes.

GFG - Thanks for the compliments. Sure, go ahead and show off my tank But you will have to write more to my thread than "Tank looks FABULOUS."

Ingo


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I had typed loads! and then the stupid internet froze.




GFG

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
you will see the micro swords on the left third and the right-most areas
Thanks LF. These micro swords remind me a little of my hair grass or lilly grass I have. I'm glad that it's not the blyxa that you are going to remove. I like the little separations you've made with them.

Yeah, I agree maybe try it without the water changes this time. I don't think water quality issues are quite as important, if you aren't target feeding. The target feeding does cause extra waste, which you need to deal with. I was doing small water changes every 2nd day when I was feeding with BBS. You're not doing that, so miss a weekly water change & see if it makes a difference to his behaviour. If he still snacks (and I've heard that it can become a habit) maybe temporarily removing him may be the only option, if you want to save fry & the female is not yet able to defend against him.

Cheers
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks GFG and Robyn,

The issue with water changes is less one of pollution from fish waste and food, as the tank is now really lightly stocked, but more of a problem of plant fertilization. I have higher N and P values in my tank that rely on weekly water changes for being reset. I would have to lower my dosages in advance so I don't drive Nitrates up too high.

Ingo

PS: did a 20G Ingo-Style overhaul, gonna go and post the pictures there now


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Long time no post, so here is one:

The second female did indeed breed under the hill on the left of the tank. I guess moving fry once hetched is a common thing among Apistos, at least in my time. This female moved them all the way to the middle of the tank, between the center group of Blyxa and the extended arm of a piece of driftwood. Again, it is a rather open spot.

She seems to have more resolve in defending that spot, she chases all Otos away and even nudged a snail so many times that it changed direction and moved somewhere else. The male is coming close once in a while and she holds him off so far, we will see for how long.

I have only seen one wiggler in there, so not much hope for more.

I know it is a crappy photo, but it is the best I got. She is sitting in there and watches for intruders.

Ingo

Attached Image:

Nest



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Congrats on the breeding again

If this is the first time for them they may not get it yet. After a few spawns the male will eventually figure it out, or so I've read. In the mean time, enjoy the guarding behavior - I always got a good laugh out of my brevis pair pitcking up MTS nearly the size of them and spitting them out on the other side of the tank


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Finger crossed, Ingo. Congratulations again.

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oooo exciting.

Good Luck Ingo.
GFG

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks NowherMan6, Robyn, and GFG for the good luck wishes, but you are too late already.

When I came home last night the female was perusing the tank again, not paying attention to the "nest" she was protecting so carefully a day earlier.

At least we know one thing for sure by now, both females and the male are fertile.

And I can do my water change today without worrying.

Have fun,

Ingo


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Bummer. Me thinks these apisto babies are not so easy to raise.

Better luck next time.

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Can't expect much from first clutches. All cichlids are like that. They'll learn, give 'em a few tries.



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Thanks folks,

Don't worry too much for me, I see the fry as a nice side-effect of the tank and not its main purpose. If I will have fry growing up then this would be awesome, but if not then I will be ok as well.

On to the main topic:

Weekly Tank Update - Week 18

Nothing happened this week, kinda boring I have to say. The only event was the breeding attempt of the second female, producing wigglers but nothing more.

Here is the tank two weeks ago, for comparison:

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago



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And here is the tank today, some things have changed a little since then. For one thing, the micros on the way left have been replaced with hygro. One can also see how much the Pearl Grass on the right front has grown. I did perform a little trimming on the left part of it and planted some on the left side of the tank.

Here is the tank now:

Attached Image:

Now



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Forgot to mention, you may also have noticed the duck weed on the top. I have it now in my 29, 125, and this one. It didn't work on the 20 though as it got sucked into the filter intakes too much.

Here is an angle shot from the front:

Attached Image:

Angle Front



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Look At The Full Frontal Shot On The Last Page, Please

And here is the angle shot from the back. If you look carfully at the middle of the tank you may see the fins of the male Apisto. That is the spot where the second female brought her fry this week:


Attached Image:

Back Angle



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A few plant details, if you don't mind.

Here is the small Pearl Grass planting on the left of the tank that I trimmed off the right group. Also note the snails on the botton

Attached Image:

Pearl Grass



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The snails are serving as a nice live snack for the Apistos, although only the really small ones are eaten. So some large ones are good to keep the food source going

And these are working on that:

Attached Image:

Snails Making Out



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The last pure plant shot is, of course, another Anubias flower. If I have any success with something at all then it is the constant production of them. Currently, I have at least 4 of them in the tank, in various stages.

Attached Image:

Nana



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Here is a plant shot with Apistos way out of focus

The Blyxa sits in the middle of the tank and is partially shaded by the wood branches above. I assume that is why it is much greener that the others. In the back you can make out the male Apisto showing off to the female (that you may notice) in the front.

Attached Image:

Blyxa With Apistos



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Talking about Apistos, I have not shown the females in quite a while as both were busy with the fry stuff. Here is the one that owns the left hill, the one that bred second. She seems to dominate the tank now, except for the male of course

Attached Image:

Left Hill Female



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And here is the female that lives in the right hill. She is having a hard time right now with the male, he is chasing her away pretty badly. I don't know why that is though as she was the first one he mated with.

I guess it will get better at some point.

Attached Image:

Right Hill Female



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The last two picturs are for the other fish in the tank,the Otos of which I have not lost even one. This to me is the greatest surprise I have to say, I must have gotten really lucky.

Attached Image:

Oto



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You may remember that I initially supplemented their food with cucumber slices, but I have not done this in quite a while. I am sure that by now the tank has enough small algae for them to eat, otherwise I would not know where this belly would be coming from.

That's it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Oto Belly



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Sounds like things are going well in there & the apisto gang are learning their place in the hierarchy of the tank.

Interesting shot of the snails. Do you actually see the apistos eat the snails? I never saw mine eat them & I always wished they would. Maybe they ate them in some obscure corner.

I haven't fed my otos cucumbers in a while either - been too lazy to do it - but they also don't seem to be suffering for it. I might give them one soon - just as a treat.

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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Lots of nice plant growth there Ingo, especially the bolbitus. Gotta keep the pearl grass in check though. It looks like it grew about 3 inches upwards. Mine tends to stay low and spread out. I think it's a lighting difference, but might have to do with trimming too. And I have to say that as it is right now, the hygro looks wonderful in the tank. I'm not sure if you want to try to keep it low like that, but if you did, I think it would work out well.

The females both are yellowing up a bit it seems to me. Even the female who is chased away is tellow and doesn't seem skinny or anything, so it appears to be working out alright. I'm sure the male will switch back and forth between the two. I'm really glad those feamles have worked out for you, it seems they were well worth it.

I'm not sure why everyone wants to get rid of those types of snails, they don't do any harm. I'm basically infested with them and I see no signs of herbivory. I assume they feed on detritus and/or algae. They sound pretty favorable to me. There are some plant eating snails, but those aren't that type.



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Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 02:41Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Robyn and Matty,

To answer your questions/comments:

Yes, I have seen the Apistos eat snails, but they must be very small. They pick them up and munch them in their mouths, then they spit out the crushed shells

Yeah, the Pearl Grass is growing upwards quite a bit, probably a light issue. I will have to trim it probably no later than in 2 weeks.

The hygro will not stay that small and constant cutting back will not do the plant to good. I may have to switch to some smaller plant, but for the time being it is ok.

The yellowing of the females is very different than the viejita style. Here, the females turn yellowish when coming out in the open and after a positive (as in not being chased) encounter with the male. The viejita on the other hand is almost always bright yellow, much brighter than the cacs.

The problem with snails is their numbers. Not because of plant eating, but because of waste production. So, too many are not good, some are just fine.

Guess that's it for now,

Ingo


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LF,

Your tank is looking quite sharp! It reminds me of this place that I trout fish often back home.

Great flower shot too! The only flowers I have right now are on my spider plant!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Thanks Wings,I appreciate the input

Weekly Tank Update - Week 19

Really not much has happened during this week and during this weekends maintenance. I added some of the NL Java Fern from the 125G makeover to the right group, just smushed it in there as deep as I can without removing any anubias (not in the substrate, in the hill cover).

And that is all, I was way too busy with all other tanks to do anything else.

Attached Image:

Tank This Weekend



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Here is a closeup of the right hill with the maybe 10 leaves (on 2 roots) of NL Java Fern addition.

You can also the the Pearl Grass on the right, in need of a trimming, but that will have to wait until next weekend:

Attached Image:

NL Java Fern



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Post InfoPosted 22-Oct-2006 19:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Also in need of trimming very soon is the Hygro on the way left tank side. Actually, maybe a replacement with a more permanent plant will have to happen instead. How about some trimmings of the Pearl Grass from the other side of the tank?

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Hygro Getting Too Tall



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Last but not least, here is a shot of the bolbitis. I think it is beginning to become very dense. After the major cutting that I did a few weeks back it is doing much better and has almost no algae anymore. Also note the Crypts towards the right.

Have fun,

Ingo

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Bolbitis



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Post InfoPosted 22-Oct-2006 19:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Oh Oh,

That does not look good

Tonight, while getting ready to feed the fish, I saw the male hovering above the substrate, just at the entrance into one of the hills. Both females were out and about, but he did not show to either, nor did he chase them.

Furthermore, once feeding started he did not come to eat his share. Usually, this is the beginning of the end.

I may have had the CO2 a little higher, but not so high that it influenced the other fish in the tank, the females seem fine.

Not good,

Ingo


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Here is a shot of him, albeit not very good, that I just got. Since the last entry he has moved to another spot and then back to this one. Just in case, I reduced the CO2 to previous levels, I may have overdone it a little as all plants have bubbles which is not normally the case in my tank. At the same time, I also added a little less baking soda, so maybe I pushed the limit. But, wouldn't he be up and gasping for air if that would be the case?

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Not so good



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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 01:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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When I had my CO2 issue my fish were swimming circles and doing weird flips and rolls. All were breathing really hard. I think they were past the point of being able to gasp at the top.

How is he doing today? I hope he will be fine!

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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 14:51Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah, normally they gasp at the surface. Maybe he's just in the "doghouse" for eating the eggs/fry. I hope he's doing better for you soon.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2006 14:56Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks guys,

I have not seen him today yet as I am leaving for work when it is still total darkness in my basement.

He kept his position until lights out last night, but it sure does not look good. I expect him to go to fish heaven, unfortunately

Ingo


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Well,

As of last night, the male Apisto was still alive. When I finally got home from work (another 12 hour workday he was in the same spot than the night before (as seen in picture above). After I fed the tank he moved once around the right hill, slowly with taking breaks to sit down on the substrate. I can see white very thin poop hanging on him (about 1.5 inches long), a very bad sign

My current thoughts are concerned with either waiting it out until he cannot move anymore or with releasing him from his misery.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 24-Oct-2006 14:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You aren't going to try to isolate and medicate him? May be internal parasites or something though, usually tough to treat. Sorry LF .



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Post InfoPosted 24-Oct-2006 15:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Why not break out the Metro and see if you can get him better? You can treat the water of the main tank directly, it won't hurt the other apisto females.

Sorry LF, fishy troubles are no good


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Thanks guys,

Last thing I have heard is that if you see the signs (and I think for sure I do now) then it is too late anyway.

On the other hand, I might be able to safe the females (which don't show any signs yet) if I used the meds.

Decisions, decisions, decisions

Ingo


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LF,

Update on the Flash?

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Post InfoPosted 25-Oct-2006 13:50Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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I haven't checked in for a few days, as I've been really busy with work. I'm sorry to hear your male may be sick - just let me say I know what you are going through. I hear metro is easier to get a hold of in the US, so why not try it. I agree with the comments that internal parasites are hard to treat - I tried several times without success, but I have read of others who have treated successfully.

Let us know how things are going.

Cheers
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Thanks for the input

Last night, the behavior of the male has been the same as it was the two nights before, mostly sitting still on the substrate somewhere around the right hill. The females, as usual, were swimming around.

The one difference I saw was that he had his normal body color, a medium gray with the few horizontal stripes. The two days before he was all light gray only. I thought it was a good sign first, but then concluded that this must be the "untainted" coloration of the fish and all other shades are "handmade" to show either aggression, or affection, or to blend in.

I have metro at home, I bought it once about a year ago for my pearls in the QT when one died, but I never used it. I am not much of a medicator though and given that there may be a small chance only for him (if he has parasites) to survive I am still struggeling with a decision if I should use it or not.

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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IMO LF, it may not be as late as you think. I've seen scrawny, emaciated, grey colored fish hovering behind the heater recover using metro - considering how safe it is for a med I don't see what you have to lose.

If he's eating, you can target him by mixing it with some frozen food, if he isn't then you can still add it to the water.


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TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Hi LF, if it were me, I would try the metro. What is there to lose? If he doesn't make it anyway, you have lost nothing - but it just might help him out. You won't know unless you try. If he is still eating, NowherMan6 gives you good advice. From what I've been told, the most chance of success comes if you can get him to eat food that has been soaked in metro. If he has already given up food, then the only choice is to medicate the water.

Good luck with him.

Cheers
TW
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Very valid point that you two are making there. I guess I will dose tonight.

This is the product that I have at home. Anyone dissagree with the suggested dosing on that site? I have to add it to the water column as the fish hasn't eaten in 3 days .

Ingo


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Toooooo Laaaaaate

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Sorry for the Graphics



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Post InfoPosted 25-Oct-2006 23:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Sorry LF. Hopefully the females will still do well until you can find a replacement male.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Oct-2006 23:48Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Oh, I'm so sorry LF. He was such a gorgeous fish & I know how sad it is when this happens. I hope your girls will be ok.

BTW, I'm amazed - you get metro from seachem? Over here you have to get a prescription & not many vets are willing to give a script for fish, as they say they don't know too much about them. I found one eventually that would write a script, but I got the tablet form. I think it also comes in liquid - which I think would have been better.

Anyway, once again I'm sorry for your loss.

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Thanks Matty and Robyn,

I will see how this all progresses. My thoughts now are if I should treat the tank anyway, not knowing 100% for sure what killed the fish, but all indications are for parasites.

If it was a given that the male had to go then at least he could have done so before he ate all the fry

The females seem still ok and very active, but their behavior has completely changes. They are now after each other and show to each other all the time, barely finding time in between to feed.

Yeah Robyn, the metro can be bought here from online vendors, in case someone cares - I got mine from "That Fish Place". The 100g tube costs over $50 plus shipping.

Matty, I will have to see what I will do next with regards to a male. Should I wait a while and then take action? Should I take action now and have the LFS order me one (which can take up to 4 weeks)? Should I just give up on them as so far they have caused quite a string of issues (remember my all male club?)? I don't know...

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Oct-2006 00:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Well, I know you are not one that likes to medicate - but I think in your circumstances, I would try to get them to eat some metro soaked food, as a precaution. I have been told by several people, that by the time these apistos show symptoms, it is already too late. So treating them now may give you an advantage.

As a contradiction to what I say above, a part of me believes that once the parasite sickness has taken hold, it is a hard disease to beat, no matter even if you medicate. But the medication at least gives a chance of cure, whereas not treating a sick fish can be no help. If we get cancer which may be terminal, we still go through the treatment, hopeful of a cure. I think more chance of success if treatment is given early - before symptoms.

One LFS over here (he was talking about discus - also sensitive fish) said he runs a UV sterilizer, plus on a regular basis (maybe every month - can't recall exactly what he said) he feeds them a metro soaked meal, as a precaution. If metro was easy to get here, I would do the same with any new apisto I buy. He apparently has a chemist friend, who gives it to him on the sly. I just don't understand why in the US you can buy it on-line (not even from a chemist) but we need a prescription. Grrrr

About getting another male. At least you have a QT to house him in, while you watch how things go with your girls. These parasites seem to take a long long time to show up though - you had him for quite a while before you saw a problem - how long was it? So what I am trying to say is, as the girls weren't with the male for all that long, if he did pass anything along, it might take a good while for it to show up. Therefore, I wouldn't add the male to that tank for at least 6 weeks, probably longer. What do you think Matty - even longer. If you saw a nice male, you could always leave him in QT for a longer than usual stint - but then, what to do with him if something happens to your girls?

Ah, it is not an easy decision. Probably, if I saw an especially nice male that I couldn't resist, I'd do the QT thing & just wait even a couple of months to join them, but I probably wouldn't actively look for a male. I'd let time pass first.

Cheers
TW
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RIP pretty fishy

><>
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Thanks Ladies

Yeah, the last thing I want right now is to get into a cycle of replacing fish all the time, buying a male now, then have the females die and buy new ones, then the male again ... and so forth.

BTW, Bensaf once said that he treats his tank (or used to) for parasites on a (I believe) 6 months interval as a precautionary measure.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Oct-2006 14:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
That's exactly what I was meaning to say, in my long winded waffle.

1. That treating apistos as a precaution with metro for internal parasites could be a good option. If I had easy access to metro, that's what I'd do

2. That you don't want a nice new male in QT, only to have problems with the females in the Breeder.

Cheers
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So sorry LF. He's beautiful, even in that state.

As I said, treat the tank, and then treat the new guy whenever he comes around. It sounds like he only gave you a few days notice before he went. If you see any of the first signs, like a concave tummy or greying and darkening of color, it's time to treat.

Good luck with the catfights


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Post InfoPosted 26-Oct-2006 15:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Good luck with the catfights
You know, all last night that was what the girls were doing . One standoff followed the other.

Good that you mentioned the signs that I should keep an eye open for. Not because I didn't know them, but because this is the one and only reason why I hesitated to med the tank. Neither did my male have a concave tummy nor did he darken (actually he got lighter in color). The lack of these signs makes me wonder if parasites are actually the reason for his demise.

Just hypothetically: given that cichlids from SA are not doing too well in high N, could it be that his exposure to values of maybe up to 40ppm over an extended period was the reason for his death? The females are in the tank maybe a little over half the time that he was in it. How does a fish behave when dying of too much N over time (vs extreme overdose of N at once)?

Ingo


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I don't know if too much N will kill the fish directly. When my Rams started showing signs of Hole in the Head, I found plenty of info online pointing to poor water quality. When I checked my N it was way high (Bright Red! ).

From what I read it is more of contributing factor. If SA cichlids don't like high N in the water, it probably puts their bodies under stress. This leads to secondary infections of stuff that may have been dormant in the fish.

In the case of my Rams the male died within a couple days of showing symptoms. When I got wise to the High N I began doing 50% water changes which hold my N at about 15 ppm. The female was able to last for about 2 weeks before she passed. They both went in the tank at the same.

Just a thought.


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Post InfoPosted 26-Oct-2006 18:34Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Rick for sharing your thoughts, and I believe that they at least partially line up with my thinking.

I may have to add a little less N to the tank as its values seem way to high. I know the test kits are not accurate, but even if I lower the N I would still be above the 20ppm mark (by far).

On the Med Frontier: I used the metro last night and have one question. It says in the instructions that I should repeat every 2 days until the symptoms go away. Well, I have no symptoms, so how often do you think I should repeat? My thoughts are to do it at least one more time tomorrow after the water change.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Oct-2006 19:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think your nitrates would need to be around 80ppm to cause serious enough problems to kill a fish in a short period of time(less than a couple years). Most Nittrate problems happen slowly. I think anything over 20ppm starts to get a bit stressful for mildly sensitive fish, personally. That's why I don't dose up to EI levels and am labelled a critical fertilator. I like to keep nitrates hovering around 10ppm.

As far as the meds. I'm no fish doctor. I don't usually medicate fish and try to stay out of medication discussions(which is hard when you work at an LFS). But I also know that dosing for short periods of time does nobody any good. I'd repeat at least once or twice, since you decided to go with it. And I'm not blaming you for doing so, not medicating is just something I do out of ignorance of disease and treatment.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Oct-2006 22:06Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Matty,

Thanks for the input. I am usually with you on the "non-med" team as I treat only what I can identify, and that has been Ich. My thoughts here were that I either could just wait and see how the girls will be doing or to dose meds for the most likely cause of death of the male. In the end, my social contience won as I just cannot handle that, if they should have become sick in the future, I could have done something about it.

The N discussion is only to make sure that I am not thinking up some illness when the culprit may be much more obvious (as in overferting).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Oct-2006 09:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I agree with Matty, repeat at least once - maybe a third. Are you treating the tank, or dosing their food?

I hope all goes well for them.

Cheers
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Robyn,

I am treating the tank. I put some thought into medicating the food but then decided against it. Reason: the Otos. If it is a parasite and if it would be able to spread to the Otos then treating the food would not help them as they don't eat flakes and I don't give them any other form of food then what grows naturally in the tank.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Oct-2006 14:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Good point LF. The only thing is that for some reason, my otos never were affected by whatever killed off both sets of apistos. Whatever it was, they seem to be immune. There were 2 in each tank & I can still account for all - who have nice fat bellys.

Good luck with the girls. Keep us posted.

Cheers
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hey LF,

sorry to hear about the little fella - he was gorgeous and you looked after him very well.

give it a week, and then just go and get a new boy! just do it! you know you want to!!

i'm just in the process of deciding on another species to join my cacs in my 6 foot tank....

justin
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Thanks Robyn and Justin

I will wait a little longer than just a week, although the constant bickering between the girls may make me change my mind soon

Weekly Tank Update - Week 20

The sole highlight of this week was a negative one, the death of my male Apisto. What a bummer, but I will move on.

Let's use this chance of a round weekly update to reflect on the tank in 5 week intervals. Here is the tank in week 1 (meaning one week after setup) after setup:

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Week 1



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Aready by week 5, all the fast growers had been replaced with a more permanent plant selection, although only some of the plants are actually still in the tank today. Here you see the whole surface covered with Micro Swords:

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Week 5



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Within the next 5 weeks, the tank had not seen many changes, mostly the wood had been moved around a little as it took me quite a while to figure out how to affix individual branches so they don't fall over all the time while doing a water change:

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Week 10



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By week 15, the actual scaping process that leads to today's setup was well under way. As you can see, the bolbitis, more anubias, various blyxas, and some pearl grass are already in place.

The wood by then also had found its more permanent position.

Attached Image:

Week 15



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And here is the full tank now after yesterday's water change and a few minor trimmings and replantings. It appears as if the Pearl Grass had not grown too much, but this is because I cut it back. Also, I don't think the Hygro will be able to stay for much longer as it begins to grow too tall:

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Tank Last Night



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Here is a closer look at the Pearl Grass before I trimmed it yesterday. Usually, I pull out the entire plant and the cut off the bottom and replant the top. But once in a while, like yesterday, I cut off individual tops and leave the rest of the plant in the tank. This is rather time consuming, but I wanted to use the tops somewhere else while still having enough left of this group.

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Pearl Grass Before Trim



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Here is the backside of the tank, and that is where you can see what I did with the Pearl Grass trimmings. I am still working on the removal of the micro sword, and little by little I will get rid of it all. This time, the left most part had been removed:

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Back View



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Here is a closer look at the new pearl grass group, with Oto and Apisto, and snails and what not . As you can see, the plants are rather short and will take a while to fill in nicely.

Pearl Grass grows fast enough to allow trimming and re-propagation on a rather frequent base, but not too fast to become a pain in the neck. Nice!

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New Pearl Grass Group



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Also from the backview, here is a closer look at the bolbitis. I think it is setteling in nicely by now and I see various new shoots. I only rarely now have to trim away an older shoot that gets some staghorn algae on it, nothing compared to the issues I had with the plant a few weeks back.

Also, the crypts to the right are setteling in nicely.

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Bolbitis and Crypts



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The last two shots are about the widows of the tank, the Apistos. They both seem to be fine and eat ok. They have been eating better though when the male was around, but it is not a lack of interest why they don't eat, it is the constant stalking of each other that distracts them too much.

Here is one peeking out from the right hill:

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One Apisto



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Last but not least, here is the other one in the open. I treated the tank with metro again after yesterday's water change and I will spend the next day and a half thinking if I should treat one more time.

That's it for this tank and this update, I hope you like to time travel, have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Other Female



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This tank is really coming along nicely LF, I can't wait to see how it looks 3 months down the road, I think it'll be a stunner.

That pearl grass is one of the few plants that truely respond well to trimming their tops. The one thing I'm really enjoying about my tank right now is how nice a carpet that stuff makes by just hacking off the tops every couple weeks. Cool plant.



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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi LF,
In looking at your logs, and your comments about algae,
I'm having a thought or two on the causes/cures for the
problem.

We all know that algae is an opportunistic critter. By
that I mean that if it finds a niche, it takes advantage
of that niche and fills it. Now that niche can be an
over abundance of some element, say iron, or nitrogen,
or it can be a lack of some element as well. Or, it can
simply be the lack of a competitor (too few plants).

In your cases, you are adding fertilizer regularly, and
changing water regularly. But, in looking at the plants
in your pictures, specifically the close up ones of your
foreground, carpet, plants, I'm wondering about
the circulation between the leaves, and down near the
substrate. The same thought with the mosses on the drift
wood. Despite being up in the water column, they have
grown so thick, I wonder about the circulation through
the individual leaves.

I'm beginning to think that they might be
"nutrient sumps."
Places where the lack of circulation could
cause concentrations of nutrients and thus, the
growth of algae.

Just a thought. It seems to happen whenever the carpet
plant becomes too thick. Then, when it becomes unsightly,
we tear out the carpet plant and a few weeks later the
algae is back under control, or gone.

Frank


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Hi LF

Enjoyed watching the 5 week transition snapshots of the tank. Thanks for sharing that.

Don't know whether I should say this LF, or not. But I will & ask you to remember what an amateur I am with apistos, put that together with being being a worrier after my recents deaths and then add a grain of salt before you even start to take any notice of me. I spend a fair bit of time looking at the belly shape of my dwarfs now & I looked closely at your 2nd apisto female. When I trace along the underside of her belly from her anal fin, to me she has an ever so slight bump where her anus is. It is bearly there and is probably nothing at all - just the angle of the shot & what not. But I mention it only so that you can watch what is happening there. I's sure she is fine & I hesitated to mention, as I didn't wanted to worry you for no reason. Matty didn't mention it, and he would have spotted it if it were a problem.

Apart from that, you have a pair of really nice looking girls there.

Cheers
TW
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Thanks all for the input

Matty - yeah, I hope that the tank will just keep on improving. I am glad that it gives me so little trouble and that I am able to change little bits here and there without upsetting the whole system.

Frank - I assume you are talking more about My 29G Tank, right? Your pointers are for sure correct, but I guess my issues there are related more to none or very irregular fertilization as this used to work in the past with gravel and laterite and now just doesn't fly anymore with Eco. This stuff is too good to be neglected

Robyn - good point, and ever since you described the symptoms on your Apistos I am keeping an eye open for similar issues on mine. I have to say that I have not noticed anything on the females in this tank until you pointed it out (and it really seems strange in the picture), but I guess the fact that I treat the tank now should help.

Thanks to all yet once again,

Ingo


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hey ingo - i just want to point out (because i'm a glass half-full kinda guy) that there is a lot more good going on with that second female than bad - clear eyes, great colouring, open, clean finnage, good red colouring of the flesh visible near the gills (highly oxygenated). i hardly think you need worry about that bump - it could be that she's hungry, has just aborted eggs, or a dozen other benign problems.

no disrespect to robyn, but i think when we worry TOO much about our babies, and treat them with kid-gloves, we actually have more troubles....

justin
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Thanks Justin,

You know, I was wondering myself how the females will fare now with regards to egg production. They must have gotten used to the idea that having eggs is ok, given that the male was present.

Ingo


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Weekly Tank Update - Week 21

Not much has happened during this week, I am still debating with myself when and if I should get another male Apisto. I treated the tank with Metro 3 times, I think that should be enough.

Here is the tank before the water change:

Attached Image:

Just Before Water Change



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And here is the tank after the water change. As you may notice, the hygro is still there but I trimmed it down a little (cut off the bottom). I just did not have any other plant that I could place there.

Do you have an idea what I could use in its place?

Attached Image:

After Water Change



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Here is the tank straight from the back. I removed some more of the micro swords on the left (added them to the 20G) and added some more Pearl Grass:

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Back View



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And here is, for the fun of it and to interest Matty in my tank, the back view in an angle.

You can see how crowded the way right side is, with the hygro being blown by the current over the micro sword group.

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Back Angle



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
And here is another closer look at the Bolbitis. As you may notice, there are quite a few bubbles under the leaves. These are obviously from the water change, but during the week in the evenings I have even more bubbles there as well. Unfortunately, I think they come from the CO2 that is being blown throughout the tank and collects there.

Anyway, that's it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:



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OK,

I saw them already last week in the LFS, but they are labled Double Red. So this afternoon I went back and asked, and without me giving a hint I was informed that they are Orange (I guess Flash).

Should I treat the tank with Metro?????

Here is the male

Attached Image:

Male Apisto



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And here is the female. Should I worry about having 3 females now? I could not resist. But that's it, all better goes well.

That's it for right now, more later.

Ingo

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Female Apisto



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Here is the last shot of the couple in the bag. As you may notice, she has lost all yellow and now has an almost white base coloration. I am sure that once she gets settled the color will come back.

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Apisto Couple



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Please Look At Previous Page For Weekly Tank Update

And here is a shot of her after she has been released into the QT. She was exploring the tank and the smaller male Platy actually swims onto her side once in a while and seems to make mating attempts

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Female I



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And here she is from the side. I hope that the experts amongst you (Justin ? ) will ok her as healthy. She seemed not shy in the tank at the LFS and so far she is not shy in this tank either. But, she is smaller than the two in the 40G. Should I worry about her as the third female in that tank?

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Female II



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And here is a first look of the male after release. I have to say that now his fin coloration seems more red than it did at the LFS and in the bag. Maybe it is a double red after all?

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Male I



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Last shot of tonight, male from the side. Again, could the experts please tell me if they think the fish is ok?

And one more time:

Should I treat the tank with Metro???

That's it for now,

Ingo

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Male II



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Ingo you dog! Way to resist the urge
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Thanks Mike,

Yeah, I could not resist, what can I say

I sure hope it doesn't come back to haunt me. I don't know how many additional setbacks I am willing to take with Cacs. Somehow I thought they are easier than viejitas, but they never gave me trouble (ok, having 3 males where 2 should be females is not the fish's fault )

Ingo


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That's nice that they finally gave you a female along with your male. I'm not sure that I'd treat with metro or not. Since it can't hurt anything, and you already have it, why not right? They do look a bit skinny, but it could be that they just need to be fed a bit. It's nothing drastic or indicative of parasites IMO. They look pretty healthy by my eye.



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Thanks Matty for the heads up on the Apistos. I think I have seen another male/male pair of other Apistos in a different tank at the LFS as both fish looked totally alike . Well, maybe they had 2 pairs in the tank and I only saw the boys, but usually they don't do that.

So, what do you think about the 40G being able to handle 3 females and the male?

Ingo


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LF,

1.) Yes, treat with metro

2.) 1m, 3f - That sounds perfect, actually - that's a real harem now Nice pick up!


Back in the saddle!
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Thanks NowherMan6

Yeah, I know that 3 is a good number, but I am wondering:

2 hills and 3 girls

That might lead to some fighting as previously both girls had fry within one week and each needed a hill for protection. So, what if that happens now with 3?

Well, maybe I should be more concerned with the health of the new pair in the first place.

Ingo


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gorgeous looking pair, ingo!

as already stated, 3:1 is a great ratio FOR THE MALE - you may find a bit of bickering between the two lesser-ranked females. and, they definitely need more potential breeding spots. i always try to have one more nest than there are females. so, get those film canisters out!!! hehehe.

good luck with them all - a couple of feeds of live food if you've got it to beef them up and all should be well.

justin
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks Justin,

I was wondering when you will peek in

Glad to hear that you think they are ok. Now, where do I get film canisters from? I haven't bought a conventional film in quite some time.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
I have a ton that I could mail to you but they smell like chemicals. I dont think I'd use them.

Maybe get one of those coconut caves and cover it in bolbitus? Just disguise it. It's more natural than matty's PVC pipe paradise...


Back in the saddle!
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Very nice LF

He still looks like an orange flash, rather than a red to me. I can see nothing that looks unhealthy, they look really nice & the male should enjoy his harem.

Re the metro. Who really knows the answer to that. Like Nowhere said, it can't hurt. I think you said the great Bensaf once said to treat apistos every 6 months as a precaution.

BTW Justin, no disrespect taken. Yes I may worry too much, but all 4 of my apistos died in short order - 3 of them with parasites (at times you could even see the tip of the worm hanging out). They weren't even in the same tank & never had been together. The 4th had suspected TB It has left me a bit nervous of them.

Cheers
TW
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*Shakes fish at nowherman*



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Has someone gotten a little offended?

Anyway, no space for coconut huts in the 40G, would look somewhat out of place. I will use the Metro tonight, for 3 sessions until Friday. Then I can clean it out on Saturday with the water change.

Ingo


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OK,

Ready for your daily dose of Apisto News?

Here is the female tonight. She has colored back up quite a bit. Her finnage also looks like she is in good shape.

Attached Image:

Female Hunting For Food



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And here is the male. He seemed a little picky during feeding. He neglected almost all freeze dried brime shrimp and freeze dried bloodworms. Eventually he had eaten a few bites. I see him roaming the tank quite frequently and picking up stuff, so I guess he doesn't like what I have on the menu

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Male



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Offended, Hope you didn't mean me. I am happy as larry at the moment, with about 30-40 krib fry in my tank

Hope that once your harem is joined up, you here the flipper, flapper of little fins too

All looks to be going well for you. Nice looking apistos (and tank too)

Cheers
TW
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No, he meant me, shaking fish. I'm not really offended, it's all in good fun



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Ingo I really regret not getting that pair myself. I must have walked past that tank a dozen times and peeked in everytime. Ah well!!! Seriously PM me for my number. Next time you're at the store, let me know. I've got friends that will take care of you. Retail prices are for the insane!
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I've got friends that will take care of you
Now that sounds scary

Will they make me an offer that I can't refuse?

I will keep your connections in mind, thanks Mike. Oh - btw - I am actually fooling myself into thinking that I got this pair for free as I bought it with my store credit. The fact that I received the credit for the males that I purchased a while back (thinking they were females seems to slip my mind

Robyn - Thanks for the compliments, when can we see more about your fry and the lost fin?

Ingo


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I'm going to update the 23.7G tank now. Thanks for asking.

Cheers
TW
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Robyn,

Your fry looks good, there must be at least 20 of them.

With regards to the new Apisto in my QT, the male makes me worried a little. He seems to be a picky eater. During the last two days he barely touched the food, maybe eating 3 bites of whatever I feed (last night was flakes). I know how it looks when a fish is sick and does this "pretend eating" in order not to be detected as sick by the other fish in the tank, but he does not do that either. He is picking "stuff" of the ground and eats it, but that is - as far as I can tell - not part of the food I add to the tank. Maybe I have so many little critters in there that he is too full to eat. Or he really does not like my offerings. I would hate to have to go to a special menu just for him.

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Yeah, the special menu is a pain. I had to to that for my bitas. No matter how I tried to disguise the pellets or flakes (by soaking first in blood worms) they would never eat them. If one accidentally went in their mouths, they either spat it out or expelled it out their gills.

For some strange reason, my female krib is doing the same. I cannot get her to take flake or pellets. The male will take them, but not her. All the nigerian reds take pellet with no problem. These finicky eaters are a pain.

I hope you don't have to go the special menu route, but if you do, I found frozen easier than fresh. Others swear you can wean them onto pellets, by soaking the pellets or flakes in defrosted bloodworms. Maybe give it a try. Didn't work for me, but apparently worked for some others. Good luck.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
My problem with food that is frozen, or even still alive, is called "my wife" . I probably would have to buy my own freezer for it (which I have been thinking about, some small mini freezer).

Ingo

EDIT: how do you feed frozen food in the first place? Do you put it in the microwave to defrost?


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Wait - you've never fed frozen food?

Well I take out the amount I am going to use for feeding and put the rest back in the freezer, then defrost in some warm water. Once thawed I like to strain it out. Along with my own concerns, I've read an article in one of the more popular fish related magazines about how the juices contain nasty fish killing bacteria sometimes, even in the major brands of frozen foods. My other problem is the amount of nutrients in that liquid which obviously goes uneaten can lead to problems, especially in the SW tanks, but also in the FW planted setups. So after I strain and rinse with tap I either put it right into the tank or put it back into some water to feed intermittently.



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Wait - you've never fed frozen food?

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Well, tetratech had at least something to say.

Sounds like a major hassle for some frozen worms there,

I will see for one more day if he eats or not.

Ingo


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It's no hassle whatsoever.

You take the frozen block of whatever then place it in a plastic cup. Run some warm water into the cup. Slosh the block around until it's all broken up. Drain out the water so that only the worms/ brine shrimp/ larvae or what have you remain. Suck them up in your aquarium designated turkey baster and feed to fish.

The water is a nutrient broth that only harms WQ. Frankly, there will be enough nutrient broth coming out the rear ends of our fish friends after they gobble up all those yummy frozen foods - no more is needed!


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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
It's really not hard.

I take a cube out & while still frozen cut some off, as a whole cube is far too much. I put it in one of those little measuring cups that sometimes come with fish medicines. For brine shrimp & daphnia, I don't rinse these at all. I think you would probably wash away some goodness too by doing that. I do rinse blood worms in a net first, just because I don't like red liquid that comes out. Takes about 20 - 30secs to rinse away, so it's no biggie. Incidently, before you wash the red liquid out, this is what you can soak your dry foods in, to try to wean them back onto them. Anyhow, I then add some tank water to the little cup & wait until it is fully thawed & at room temp. If you use tank water, you don't need to drain it again, as the water is safe. Plus for the next step in feeding process, I need a little water in the mix.

You could just dump it in the tank, but I have less waste if I take up a small portion of the mixture in a child's medicine dropper & release the food in controlled amounts. Once they have eaten the 3 or so pieces, I squirt out some more. Takes longer, but I'm also interacting with them & I enjoy it really. They recognise the dropper & come running when they see it being lowered into the tank. They even yank food out of the dropper. They become used to my hand & don't run from it, especially when I have to lower the dropper deep in the tank to feed fry near the bottom. So I can put my hand right up close to mum & bubs & they aren't bothered at all.

About the freezer issue. I wrap each package tightly with gladwrap (I have 3 varieties) & then they all sit inside one tupperware container of just the right size. The container is labelled. If you packed it up this way, are you sure you couldn't put it safely in the freezer?

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well, tetratech had at least something to say.

Go to Matty's planted tank log for Round II of:


Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

VS

The Self Proclaimed King of Protist Destruction








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In this corner we have.....

I like conversating...I hope nobody takes it the wrong way(especially the Protist Destructonator ) It's all in good fun right?



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It's all in good fun right?
Of course. LF and I have had a few over the 8,000 or so posts we both share.

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Actually,

I enjoy it once in a while when I am only on the sidelines of such discussions. Unsually I am right in there . And yes, of course it is all fun and games

Anyway, thanks all for the additional info on frozen food, I am sure it will come in handy. In the meantime, the male Apisto decided that he is ok with freeze dried blodworms. After having denied them once before, it was the third course that I served two evenings ago, after flakes and freeze dried tubifex (turned down, as usual). Last night he tried one flake first , but then went on to eat quite a load of bloodworms. I have to say, he is not the smartest entity in fish land. He expects the food to be exactly where I add it to the tank. If the current carries it away then he is not going after it. Lazy bum

Ingo


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Wow,

I have quite a few pictures to post, so on with the show.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 22

Not much to report, except that I continued with the gradual replacement of some of the plants.

Here is the tank last week:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend



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And here is the tank today.

As you may notice, the hygro is gone by now and the middle section had been opened a little more.

Besides the hygro, additional bushels of micro swords have been removed.

Attached Image:

Today



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Here is a closeup of the corner to the short end that housed the hygro before the makeover. As you may see, the whole bottom area is pretty dark. When the plants were lower a female Cac used to hang out there once in a while, but with this growth she didn't do this anymore.

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Hygro



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And here is pretty much the full short end before the changes were applied. Again, all is pretty dark back there and not a fun place to be

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Old Short Side



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And here is the same area after the redo. Hygro and micro swords are gone and Bylxa has been put in its place. The plants have been created by separation of the one that I had in the middle of the tank (in the unplanted section).

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New Short Side



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Blyxa is a very graceful plant, I think. Here is one of the plants, the one that is in the corner of the short side. It even has bubbles tonight but I don't know if they are CO2 or O bubbles

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Blyxa



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As I mentioned bubbles, this is how the Bolitis looks every evening. Here again, I don't know if the plant collects the CO2 bubbles that are blown around the tank or if it actually creates oxygen. In either case, it looks nice.

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Bolbitis



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A plant that will need some trimming rather sooner than later is the Pearl Grass in the front of the tank. Now with the left side so low it seems odd that the right side is so high with all the tall Pearl Grass there. Maybe next weekend.

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Pearl Grass



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Here is the only real trouble spot in the tank, the area behind the open spot in the middle of the tank. This spot seems to be the toilet of the tank and it host quite a bit of hair algae.

This shot has been taken before the cleaning and trimming.

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Trouble Spot



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And here is the same spot after I removed most of the hair algae. It is hard to reach.

By now it served as meeting spot for snails to have an orgy . Or maybe they just play cho-cho train.

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Snails



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Here is a closer look into the open spot and the anubias that is behind it. That plant was previously not visible as it was blocked by a blyxa that I removed. This anubias was pretty much dead and lost all leaves, but now it has quite a few new ones.

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Anubias



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Here is another shot of the full front of the tank, in an angle to hopefully show you better the improved open section.

I guess the blyxa on the right of the open area could be thinned out as well.

Attached Image:



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And here is the tank from the back head on. As you may notice, I also added a few more blyxas to the left and did not only modify the right side.

I guess you will tell me that the blyxa is too lined up, right?

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Back View



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On to the fish.

Here is one of the two resident Cacs. They both seem to be doing ok, although there is always a chase going on when the bossy one comes close to the other one. Interestingly, the weaker one was the one the previous male selected for mating first.

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Female Cac



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And here is the new female hanging out in the QT. I don't know why, but she is mostly whitish and not any longer displays any yellow. She doesn't seem ill and eats well, so I don't really understand this. Even the females in the 40G are somewhat yellowish.

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Female Cac



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Check Out The Loads Of Pictures On The Previous Page



Here she is again, this time checking out if I may be having some food in my hand

She is very cute though, right?


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Female Again



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Here is the male now, hanging out in the front left corner of the QT. He is most of the time somewhere between the plants and looks for some food. Oh, one reason why he may not have eaten in the first few days was maybe because he was full. I found some platy fry in the filter and none in the tank. I wonder where they went ?

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Male Cac



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And here he is checking out the girl.

Every day I am worried that he will not make it. This would be my worst mightmare, as I would end up with 3 females and no male. But so far so good.

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Check Her Out



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Last but not least, here is a shot of something I have no idea on what was going on

In any case, it is one of the females in the 40G hanging with her friends, the Otos.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Strange Group



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I won't tell you that the blyxa looks too lined up anymore cause I think I know where you are going with it. It just needs some more time to fill in and it will look great. I like how this tank is evolving. It seems to be getting a bit simpler compared to right after you changed it, but not quite as simple as before you changed it from all the microswords.

I still think the one female looks a bit skinny, but as long as she's acting ok, she looks healthy otherwise.



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Your male looks more colourful here, than the pic in the other log. I love the front on shot of your girl, and yes, she is very cute.

I got very excited when my blxya was 1st ready to separate into 2 plants (particularly as it shouldn't even grow in my low light) but that is probably all pretty "ho hum" & common place for you. Still, a 2nd plant for free is good. Blxya is hard to find & expensive here (I have seen it for $30 a plant in LFS).

I don't mind you blyxa lined up like that at all. In the front, I really like the opening too.

Interesting shot of the snail, plus the strange playmates in your final shot.

Cheers
TW
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This tank is looking better, but there are a few things I would change.

The mound on the left with the Bolitis looks great, but the mound on the right looks alittle messy and not as defined. I still think in this type of setup you should have the two mounds very similiar and let the Bolitis be the dominant plant on both sides. Doesn't mean you can't have another species as support, but the same plant should dominate.

The Blyxa is too tall and distracts from the mounds. IMO the front foreground should be a low moss or other plant that will add some color but allow you to see the hardscape of the defined mounds.

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I really hope the male makes it for you! It is a really nice fish.. as was your last one too!

You have done a really nice job with the Anubias and ferns in this tank. I love the feel of it.

How long did it take for your African fern to take off? Mine hasn't done anything in the week or two I have had it.

55G Planted tank thread
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... cause I think I know where you are going with it
Well Matty, then you know more than I do . Maybe I have some vision for it in the back of my head, but I cannot pull it forward into my conscious thinking area

Yeah, I like where the tank is going as well, in particular because all can be done slowly and in simple processes. No major upset is needed to keep on going.

Robyn - You should commit a tank to grow out Blyxa only. At $30 you should be able to finance your whole hobby . Yeah, the male looks better here, that is because I post better pictures here than in the QT section .

Tetratech - complain, complain, complain . Now the nitpicking came full circle . Anyway, you are at least somewhat in sink with me. I completley agree that the right mound does not look defined. But I believe it has more to do with the tall Pearl Grass group and the plants on the right short side of the tank. Next weekend I will trim the Pearl grass there and then I will have a better idea on how defined the mound is.

I also don't know if I am into the idea of having two equal mounds, with regards to general structure (wood/rocks) and plants. Somehow I think it may make the tank a little more boring as in "when you have seen one mound then you have seen them all."

I don't think my Blyxa is all that tall . Actually, it never grew tall for me, even if I tried. Mosses on the substrate are too dangerous for me, too high of a chance to get gunk underneath and as such algae issues. Plus, let's not forget the spreading into undesired areas.

Ingo


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Wings - didn't see your entry until right now, thanks for the friendly comments.

2 weeks seems to be nothing for Bolbitis, it took quite some time for that plant to finally settle. I don't think it is really taking off yet even now. After 2 weeks I had mostly dying old leaves and I trimmed them away, the new growth was much healthier. Also, keep in mind that Bolbitis likes current.

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Tetratech - complain, complain, complain

Don't worry you'll have a chance soon to rate my 72g revision. You better be nice

I also don't know if I am into the idea of having two equal mounds, with regards to general structure (wood/rocks) and plants.

Just for the record, I don't mean two "identical" mounds just ones that the main elements are the same but are flavored with different supporting plants.

I don't think my Blyxa is all that tall . Actually, it never grew tall for me, even if I tried.

I guess I'm still trying to get you to show us your hardscape . The original premise was mounds with those nice rocks. I don't think the height of the blyxa lends itself to that.

Moss on rocks

Moss on rocks is pretty easy to maintain. You pick up the rock trim and put it back. Am I missing something here?

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You better be nice
I will try , but I am most certain that it will look pretty good anyway.
but are flavored with different supporting plants
The problem is that there is not much space for supporting plants. The only other plants besides ferns that I know would lean themselves to be anchored on wood/rock are anubias, and as such they would be the same
The original premise was mounds with those nice rocks. I don't think the height of the blyxa lends itself to that.
Agreed, but take another look at the picture on the previous page showing the new left short side after I removed the hygro. Can you see the rocks? Once the plant mass on top of the mounds has grown some more I will leave gaps in the surrounding territory to show off these rocks.
Moss on rocks is pretty easy to maintain. You pick up the rock trim and put it back. Am I missing something here?
Maybe that the rock would block the view onto the main groups as well, just as some of the Blyxa does. Or do you mean using moss on the existing rocks there? That would be impossible as these rocks hold the wood structures in place.

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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Moss on rocks is pretty easy to maintain. You pick up the rock trim and put it back. Am I missing something here?


Remember LFs big christmas moss rocks from the 125, filled with gunk? Once bitten, twice shy...


I can certainly see where tetra is going with the bolbitus though. Especially in an apisto tank. Territories need not be just hardscape along the ground. Bolbitus is a big fern plant, and letting it grow larger from both ends into a canopy of sorts can help break up sight lines and create mid-water territories.

Remember, this is basically a species tank, being built for the apistos - it may be nice to add elements to it with them in mind and their needs and habitat. A denser look would be very good for them, it would allow them to hide when they want and show themselves when they want. I think the bolbitus can help with that. If you have Amanos first Nature Aquarium book, check out the tnak on pages 122-123 for inspiration.


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Well OK,

I will check out that tank on the mentioned pages.

In order to stall you all on the Bolbitis issue: It still has some growing to do before I would even be able to attempt a re-settlement of parts of the plant

And it really grows slooooow. I know at some point it will just take off, but that has not happened yet.

Ingo


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And I'm sorry if that came off as pushy at all I didn't mean to tell you what to do with the tank or anything like that Just bouncing ideas etc...


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Remember LFs big christmas moss rocks from the 125, filled with gunk? Once bitten, twice shy...

Well that was the old LF, now he's "leaner and meaner" in terms of feed and stocking. Speaking of Amano, LF what is your hesitation of adding amano/yamato shrimp to the mix. Moss and shrimp are just so good together. Not only to watch but for cleaning out the gunk. They do wonders in my 12g in which I have only 2 and 3 CRS. They also ate the monkey skull clean of any BBA tufts that were appearing. It was quite amazing. I also have about 8 in my 72g and watching them crawl along the riccia is really sweet.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Don't worry NowherMan6, I did not think you are pushy, I just ran out of arguments
Speaking of Amano, LF what is your hesitation of adding amano/yamato shrimp to the mix
That would be called Apistos

And that for two reasons:

a) maybe the Apistos will eat the shrimp, or at least their legs, or
b) the shrimp will eat the Apisto fry/eggs

Ingo


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And that for two reasons:

a) maybe the Apistos will eat the shrimp, or at least their legs, or
b) the shrimp will eat the Apisto fry/eggs


a)Amanos are quite large and I don't have a problem in my 72g with a bosemani, apisto and dwarf cichlids. Legless shrimp

b)That I'm not sure about, but as I said before sometimes fishkeeping and algae free planted aquaria don't mix, espeically breeding fish (flower pots)

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NowherMan6
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If the apistos aren't afraid to shoo off another fish the same size as them when guarding eggs or fry, I can't see why they'd shy away from some shrimpy... err, shrimp.

I understand your uneasiness about them, but they really are great for nipping hair and thread algae in the bud.


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tetratech
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I understand your uneasiness about them, but they really are great for nipping hair and thread algae in the bud

Nowher, to be honest I didn't know Amanos ate BBA, but I had several tufts on my monkey skull and they are all gone since putting the amanos in. Probably the less you feed and the limited supply of other algaes have forced them to eat the BBA?

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Hi LF, I understand perfectly why you'd be concerned about the shrimp eating the eggs. I agree apisto would not be scared to shoo off shrimp or other fish, but the fry hunters are opportunist. At some point of time, the parents will leave the fry (even for a few seconds) for food. It only takes a second for a creature (fish or shrimp) to knock off a fry. Before you know it, over a period of two weeks - there may not be too many left.

Just my 2 cents.


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TW
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Yeah,

Thanks all for the input, I will keep the Amanos in mind (actually more likely for the hair algae infested 29G).

Anyway, thought you may want to know that the Apistos in the QT are eating pretty well by now, they accept freeze dried foods of all kinds, like tubifex and bloodworms. They also eat some flakes.

The female, nevertheless, still looks pretty skinny.

This weekend they will have been 2 weeks in QT, do you think it would be time to move them "home"?

Ingo


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Wait until the female beefs up a bit IMO. She might have a hard time with the other two.



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Ok,

I don't have a lot of time, so on with the important things.

Weekly Tank Update - Week 23

Being very busy with stuff and the 29G this weekend, I didn't do much to this tank. Only some minor changes.

Here is the tank now:

Attached Image:

Tank Full Frontal



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Here is the tank in a Matty-Angle from the front, showing off some of the changes to the right side and the center. More to these details in additional photos.

Attached Image:

Angled



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Here is the tank in a Matty-Angle from the front, showing off some of the changes to the right side and the center. More to these details in additional photos.

Attached Image:

Angled



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LITTLE_FISH
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Here is a closer look to the new right front section. A blyxa from the center has been split into 3 and one ended up here all the way to the right. In addition, my mini crypts from the 125G have replaced the Pearl Grass that used to be in this corner:

Attached Image:

New Right Front



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And here is the new, and most likely temporary, middel section of the tank.

Yes, that's HC

I got it as a present from one of my local plant guys and just placed it there to see if it even sticks.

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HC



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Here is a closer look at the HC after the water change. I would not have thought that such a tiny plant can pearl, but it does (at least right after the water change).

I will see how it goes and if it is working great then I will try to create a lawn with it. If not, no loss.

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HC Again



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
And here is one of the two resident Apisto females. I followed Matty's advice and did not add the new pair yet, although I doubt that the new female will catch up with Matty's fat girls any time soon. Eventually I will need to add them though, probably next weekend.

That's it for this weekend, on to the 125G.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Female Apisto



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LF,
Tank is looking great. I think the HC will look nice in the middle if you can get it to fill out. I also think that some sort of moss rock or wood would look nice as a border around the Anubias.

http://www.aquabid.com/cgi-bin/auction/auction.cgi?liveplants&1164128978
or Riccia or Pella.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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I really like the look of the two mounds and the contrasting leaf shapes, but I'm gonna stick to my original statement from a 11/13:

The Blyxa is too tall and distracts from the mounds. IMO the front foreground should be a low moss or other plant that will add some color but allow you to see the hardscape of the defined mounds.
.

Which it looks like Wings has echoed the other day:

LF,
Tank is looking great. I think the HC will look nice in the middle if you can get it to fill out. I also think that some sort of moss rock or wood would look nice as a border around the Anubias.


For example the wisteria on the left front takes away from the mound defintion on the left.

Overall the tank looks great

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Thanks guys
For example the wisteria on the left front takes away from the mound defintion on the left
- What did I say? Small changes slowly!!!

tetratech - the wisteria is only there as a filler until I have more of the permanent plants. Better an ugly filler than not enough plant mass, right? Not even the Pearl Grass on the back side will be there in some time, but not now.

Ingo


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hey ingo -

as always i am delighted and amazed by the growth and change in your tanks. mine is a far more settled tank!! i've just added four more ozelot swords, though, making nine, plus 14 amazon swords and about 8 tiger lotus - the bloody things won't stop sending off pups!! and in cacatuoide land, my beta female has just laid her eggs on the top of an ozelot sword leaf, and on the bottom of a leaf which drapes over the first!! it's right at the front of the tank, so i can see the whole process - but i don't think she's going to be able to defend them against the sturisoma panamense. i hadn't read of cacs laying on leaves, nor so high in the water column (about 8 inches). the alpha female has a brood of about ten babies, from about 30, (layed and hatched and protected in a film canister - hehehe!!)and the gamma female is just moping around looking grey and a little put out. my boy doesn't like her and her superiors just chase her around. poor thing. even in a six foot tank she can't find many places to call her own...

hope you and the fish are well,

justin
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Justin,

Thanks for the input and I am glad to read that you have babies en masse.

But if I interpret your input right, with reference to my Apistos, then you basically say that I will see at least one female being "left out" and not so happy? Currently, the male in the QT seems to be getting along with the female just well, I hope he doesn't forget about this once they are in the real tank.

Ingo


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hi ingo,

as with all situations involving other living things, we have no real idea as to the outcomes or posibilities - there are too many variables, and we are only ever theorising, then reporting things as they come to be. your three females and your male all have hard-wiring which is going to make them entirely different to mine. i think if i had three boyfriends in my house i might have favourites from time to time too - and i'm pretty sure their status would change depending on an infinite variety of things.

just get your pair into the tank and see what happens. i for one can't wait to see what goes on!

regards,

justin
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Love the current look, Ing; the bolbotis looks imposing .
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I for one can't wait to see what goes on
Me neither Justin

I will add the fish on Sunday, if nothing bad happens in between. Both are eating well by now and seem to get along just fine, although I think the female may even be still too young to breed.

Cup - Thanks for stopping by and for the nice comments. The bolbitis is just beginning to show some nice and speedy growth, I can see various new leaves coming straight up. Actually (supposedly), at some point this may cause a problem as I have heard that once the plant is settled it reaaalllly takes off. As such it may require very frequent trimming in form of thinnning out.

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Weekly Tank Update - Week 24

Nothing much has happened during this week with the tank, it just keeps on doing what it is doing best, growing slowly.

Before I get into the tank details of this weekend, here is a preview of what I want to do today, add the pair of Apistos.

If you think it is a bad idea, speak now

Attached Image:

Apisto Pair



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Here is a closer look at the female. She has grown a little, but one cannot label her as "fattened up" just yet. She may have a hard time in this tank, but I don't want to leave her behind in the QT either. Right now the male knows only her so I hope he takes a little care of her once he established the tank as his.

Attached Image:

Female Apisto



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And here is the male, screaming "get me outta here"

He for sure is ready for the main tank. He is not quite as handsome as the original was, but still pretty good. If he dies then I don't know what to do anymore, I cannot continue to buy new pairs and may have to make a special "male only" order at the LFS.

Attached Image:

Male Apisto



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On to the tank in itself:

Here is a comparison shot from 4 weeks ago, with some temp plants (hygro and pearl grass) still in place. Since then, small changes have been made every weekend:

Attached Image:

4 Weeks Ago



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And here is the tank now last night. It shows nicely how much the bolbitis has grown. I think it will reach the point where it really takes off very soon.

Also, based on tetratech's special request, the Wisteria on the left has been removed and some Blyxa was put in its place.

Attached Image:

Tank Last Night



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Here is a look at the tank from the left side, without Wisteria. BTW, I used the plant to fill in the left side of the 125G some more.

Before I forget, this tank, like the 125G requires weekly thinning out of the duck weed on the surface. That stuff currently grows like mad in my tanks.

Attached Image:

Left Side



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And here is the front again, in the classic Matty-Angle.

The Anubias seem to form a W in this shot, from the top of the left island, down to the foreground, then lining the open space, and back onto the top of the right island. That wasn't planned, but could have been

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Angled



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If you were wondering about the small specs next to the HC in the tank center, well - here is a closer look at them before I added them into the tank.

Yup, I finally broke down and payed some $$$ and got me 7 Amano Shrimpsters.

Attached Image:

Amano



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Here is one of them floating in the bag. I selected the 7 largest they had in the store and I would assume they are all adults. In length they are larger than my Otos in the tank.

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Amano I



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Here is the first shot I took after adding them to the tank. They immediately went to work and started eating away. I acclimated them for 2 hours and I am pretty sure they didn't need any longer. Or, at least that is what I hope for as I haven't checked on them today yet.

Attached Image:

Amano II



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Here is another one of the group, labeled "The White Ground Diggers" by my daughter. Even the wife came downstairs and looked at them for a while (and seemed rather pleased with them).

Anyone knows what the white speckles on his/her back are?

Attached Image:

Amano III



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Of course it did not take too long before the resident female Apistos became aware of the new entries to the tank. Here is one of them peaking through the leaves and checking out the situation, probably thinking "Can I eat them?"

Attached Image:

Apisto Looking Out



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
PLEASE VIEW MORE PICTURES AND INFO ON THE LOWER HALF OF THE PREVIOUS PAGE FOR MORE ON THIS WEEKLY TANK UPDATE

And here is one of these "Close Encounters"

I observed quite a few of them, with the female Apisto looking at the shrimp, moving back and forth, and eventually coming so close that the shrimp makes a fast withdrawal. I guess that settles the hierachy


Attached Image:

Close Enough



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Here are a few more shrimp shots, sorry about that but I had never shrimp in my tanks so it makes me very excited and I could not stop myself from taking pictures. Actually, you can be glad that I am posting only a few of the over 200 I took this weekend.

Here is one observing a snail

Attached Image:

Amano IV



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And here is another shot, probably the clearest that I have gotten so far. But you be the judge, I am sure I boring you to death already with them, but hang in there, just a few more

Attached Image:

Amano V



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Here is one climbing around in my Anubias/Crypt/Bolbitis hill. He is more pinkish then some of the others. Does anyone know why that is? I assume it is caused by different stages of the molting process, but what would pinkish mean - pretty new in its current shell?

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Pink Amano



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Post InfoPosted 26-Nov-2006 14:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ok,

Last Shrimpster shot for now. Here is one climbing around one of the tallest pieces of wodd and muching away on the small algae that can be found on it. This shows me that these guys are not shying away from the light. Maybe he even enjoyed being up there as he most certainly spent about one hour up there:

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Last Amano For Today



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Now, I have shown you how the Apistos reacted to the shrimp, but you may wonder what the other cleaning crew, aka Otos, had to say about such an intrusion. Well, they became a little more active.

Here are 4 of them discussing what to do about this new animal type.

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4 Otos



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
PERSONAL POST No. 6000

And here are the other two, on the opposite side of the tank. I believe they are "holding hands" although it is hard without hands to do so . That's why the fins touch. Just Cute


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2 Otos



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And eventually they all came together and formed a Union, called "The United Ground Crew" and decided to sing their newly composed union song (ok, maybe not all that funny).

Anyway, for real, they seem to have been very busy last night playing chase or something. For sure they were moving around more than usual and seemed to hang tighter as well.

That's it for now, let me know what you think,

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

All My Otos



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Post InfoPosted 26-Nov-2006 14:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey LF, the tank is looking better every week. You'll definitely have to start pruning back that bolbitis soon. The angle from the left and the matty special were great shots.

Actually, you can be glad that I am posting only a few of the over 200 I took this weekend.


Dang. I bet that was a good time though. I enjoy shooting the shrimp in my tank, though the SW ones are a bit more difficult to get, as they like to hang out in under rocks and in holes when someone is around. I thought all the pics of shrimp were very clear, except that pink one, which I would guess is pink because of just having molted. I've never seen that with mine though*shrugs*. My SW shrimp are bright red right after they molt.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Nov-2006 01:08Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the input and comments Matty,

I guess the color must have something to do with the molting. Just about 30 min ago I checked on the tank and tried to account for all shrimpsters. At best, I counted 5 out of 7 , one of which is hanging below a high piece of wood since pretty much midday. He/she is moving a little, but I don't see the feeding motion. It happens to be the largest, I believe. Either it is sick or getting ready to molt (or release babies as there is some undefined thing along the underside of the belly).

Then, to my shock, I found one tangled up in the plants, all bent out of shape. But, it wasn't all that bad as when I removed him it was only an empty shell. Molted!

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Shell



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Post InfoPosted 27-Nov-2006 01:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I wouldn't get worried, I never see all mine at once either. Kinda like the otos. I'm sure they are doing fine. Nice molting BTW.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Nov-2006 01:41Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Kinda like the otos.
Just look two images further up, there are all my Otos

But I know what you mean, Matty. Actually, I was rather surprised having been able to count them during the first day. I actually assumed that they all would dissapear into the plants as soon as I released them.

Ingo


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Also, based on tetratech's special request, the Wisteria on the left has been removed


Oh yeah The tank looks much better especially the right side with the pearlgrass reduced. Now you could see the rock under/in front of the anubias. It would be great if you could get a rock to show on the left more separating the blyxa from the anubias. The constrast is much better with the rocks showing and it defines the mounds better.

I'm glad you added the shrimp. I'm not sure how many I have in the 72g probably around 6 or 7. I'd like to have more like 20. They definitely will put a dent in some of the algae. In my 12g there are 2 Amanos and 3 cherries and they completely cleaned off the big rock of bba and gda. It's really funny when they grab the algae or bottom feeder wafers and make a run for it.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Nov-2006 02:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks tetratech for the input

I will take it slow until I am more certain that there would be enough healthy plant mass even if I remove one or the other Blyxa that is currently blocking the view.

I am also glad that I added the shrimp, they are eating machines.

I almost forgot, this is what else happened yesterday:

Attached Image:

Apisto On The Move



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As announced a few times, I moved the Apistos into the tank. Catching them in the QT wasn't all that hard. Here they are in the bag and you can see the alpha resident female already coming for an inspection:

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Oh Oh



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As soon as I released them from the bag into the tank, the alpha female was busy following the male. He seemed rather interested, although this picture does not quite reflect that notion:

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In the Tank



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This one is more representable of the situation within the first hour of release. A female, yellowing up for the occasion, somewhere around the male. I thought that they may lay eggs right then, but I believe that didn't happen.

Also, I don't think the male looks all that healthy, even my 6 year old daughter identified that he is rather "skinny" when compared to the last male.

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Follow Me



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I couldn't resist, I had to smuggle another Shrimp shot into this set. In this non-edited shot the shrimp looks almost like having a blue hue to it. We have seen them slightly pinkish, but blue is new to me.

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Shrimp



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Here you see the Beta female Apisto, in between yellowing for the guy and darkening as a defensive dress for the other females. She in particular is giving the new girl a hard time.

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Beta Female Apisto



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The male, on the other hand, is showing to any female that is close to him. Here he is with his original female, from now on Gamma.

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Showing



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And here he is with the Alpha female again, although you can only imagine that he is right behind her. But as you can see, there is no blackeing left in her lower body as she is all show.

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Show Off



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Another shot of male/female interaction, this time showing how bright yellow the females can get if they want to. Again, I think the male doesn't look his best though

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Another Showing



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The Gamma female sometimes makes me sad, she is being chased away by the Betta female quite often. She still has enough space in the tank to venture into, but in this shot she looks really sad

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I am sad



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Last but not least, another shrimp shot showing an Amano head on. He is sitting on a Bolbitis leaf and eats away on whatever stuff he may find there. Very nice!

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Eat Away



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Post InfoPosted 27-Nov-2006 12:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Congrates on the 6000 post LF! Some day way done the road I might catch you! A cammera might help the situation a little. That might happen this spring though.

The shrimp are quite nice. I really enjoy mine too. I found that mine tended to hang out with each other for the first month or so. Now they seem to have there own areas in the tank.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Nov-2006 15:17Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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I always thought the W (or at lest the V section of the W) was planned. In any case, I like it - it leads you in.

Loved all the shrimp & apisto shots. So shrimp (amanos & cherry in particular) are good for algae. Maybe I should get some for my 2 smaller tanks - but my guarding female krib would not be happy. Justin, congratualtions on all your babies. Tell me, I know you live in Sydney. Have you seen any amanos or cherry shrimps around? I have only ever seen really large looking shrimps that I don't think would suit.

Ingo, are shrimps egg stealers - or do they like algae & other vege things best?

It is amazing how quickly the apisto girls can change dress. Your gamma female does look sad in that shot, but if the male shows off to both girls, then just watch her change looks if she has eggs to guard.

Cheers
TW
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Robyn,

The V was on purpose, the W a coincidence,

I don't know if they are egg stealers/eaters, it was one of my concerns. But the gang thought that an energetic protecting mom should be able to chase them away and so far the shrimp wouldn't dare to challenge the Apistos in the tank.

In general, last night all inhabitants are still around and the male likes to display to all females, none of which seems to be protecting something, aka no eggs yet. The Alpha female is currently not so receptive to his showings and actually chases him away.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 11:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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My head is spinning from all the pics and posts you and matty and tetra and TW and Wings have been putting up over the past few days. At least the forum is alive again

Anyway, very very nice LF, the tank does look better and congrats on picking up the shrimp. You'll want more, trust me. And I know I'm late on this, but I notice my Amamos are sometimes pink as well, and as you noticed, it has to do with molting. Keep those apistos well fed so they don't decide to have shrimp cocktail one day for an appetizer


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 16:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I gotta say that those 2 females I sent you are looking VERY healthy. The yellows are unreal and they have nice full bellies. Great job, and nice pics LF. I sure hope they get along with the new pair.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 17:24Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I gotta say that those 2 females I sent you are looking VERY healthy
And that is mostly of flake food, can you believe it? Well, they probably eat small snails in the tank like mad, too. But they are for sure some big girls (relative to the male, the viejita is actually longer and bigger than they are).

NowherMan6 - "At least the forum is alive again" And it would be even more so if you would write more
Thanks for the compliments on tank and shrimpsters though.

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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I will surely do my best, but the past few weeks have been dreadful:

1.) In the 8 days before Thanksgiving I worked 4 all-nighters (22 hour days), plus late nights on the nights i was able to sleep

2.) Then thanksgiving with the family etc

Not too much time for posting... or doing water changes etc.

And what's going on with NJAGC? Changing websites?


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 00:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Everyone is so busy. Wasn't the technology at all our workplaces supposed to make life easier for us all. Seems everyone (including me) is having to work extra long hours.

Cheers
TW
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In the 8 days before Thanksgiving I worked 4 all-nighters
I don't envy you for this, but I am not too sorry either as I am still sitting in my office right now and I am nowhere (pun intended) near from going home Darn!!!

Yup, the site is being upgraded to a new forum software, be patient. I have seen it tonight as Jay was testing it and I was still here and he asked me to step through to find some errors (or not). But it will be worthwhile for you to find out when and where the next meeting is.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 08:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
jase101
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a quick note for robyn:

i just saw some very &nbsp; (cherry? blood?) shrimp at slippery little suckers in randwick, but at $50 each i wasn't gonna be buying!! michella told me she expects the price to drop as more are imported, so maybe hold off a while... they were so cool looking!!! or if you think you can breed them, maybe it would be a lucrative purchase....

sorry to hijack, ingo! oh, i just bought a pair of apisto. agassizii - they're settling into my 40-litre cube nicely.

justin
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jase101
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how funny!!! i just got censored!!!! hehehehe!!! it was just the word s then an e then an x then a y....
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The funniest thing is that there really is a shrimp in SW named the &nbsp; shrimp. It does this little dance with it's tail raised up. Pretty &nbsp;.



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jase101
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my my, a &nbsp; shrimp. who would think of calling a shrimp &nbsp;?

justin
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Wow,

What has my log become? A record of censored entries

Kind of funny that even a legitimate name of an aquarium animal would not be able to be mentioned here.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Dec-2006 15:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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What has my log become? A record of censored entries


What do you expect from a log titled "40G Breeder"
Sounds very &nbsp; to me.

My Scapes
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hahaha

Thanks Justin for the shrimp update. I will wait to see if prices drop - otherwise, these shrimp won't be for me. Did you get your agassizii from SLS? Someone told me they weren't importing them anymore?

How are your shrimp doing LF?



Cheers
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LITTLE_FISH
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How are your shrimp doing LF?
This, and more, will be revealed in:

Weekly Tank Updates - Week 25

For the same reason than the one for the 125G (work), I was not able to do the same fert schedule for this tank this week. The weekend maintenance has not seen much action, a little trimming on the back Pearl Grass was all that I did.

Here is the full tank:

Attached Image:

Full Tank - Main View



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Post InfoPosted 04-Dec-2006 01:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And here is the tank from the same direction, just a little angled to reveal the open area a little better.

By now, it is getting very green in there.

Attached Image:

Angled Front View



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Post InfoPosted 04-Dec-2006 01:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And here is the tank from the other side.

I will probably start soon with replacing this group of Pear Grass with some more Blyxa, although the Blyxa doesn't grow tall it for sure creates quite some side shoots.

Attached Image:

Back View



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Post InfoPosted 04-Dec-2006 01:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here is a closer look at the one small group of Pearl Grass that I still have in the front of the tank. Interestingly, at least for me, is the growth pattern of this group, with stems growing in all directions like the crown of a tree.

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Pearl Grass



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Post InfoPosted 04-Dec-2006 01:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The 3 pieces of Java Fern (narrow leaf) that I purchased for this tank when I moved towards the current setup are becoming quite bushy. Unlike the NL Java Fern from the 125, these leaves seem way more compact. Maybe because they are closer to the light.

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NL Java Fern



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The HC that I have in the open is still there, but it is not doing to well. Besides the fact that a few pieces have been floating up, the rest looks like it barely can hang on. I doubt that it will make it in this tank, bummer.

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HC



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Post InfoPosted 04-Dec-2006 01:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The Bolbitis, on the other hand, is doing just great. I am glad that I decided to trim the ugly and algae befallen leaves of it quite a while back instead of removing it completely. It now is a solid arrangement, with tall leaves of a Wendtii peaking through in the back.

Attached Image:

Bolbitis



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Post InfoPosted 04-Dec-2006 01:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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All fish in the tank are doing fine as well, including the new female. She is not confined to the worst spot either, but if she comes to close to another female then she is being chased away. Her time will come later

Attached Image:

Bad Shot of Younger Female



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Here is a shot of one of the older females. The other one is squeezing into some gap of the right hill most of the time, usually a sign that she has eggs or fry. But then again, she is coming out too often.

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Older Female



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The male also seems to get his act together, I think he is looking a little better now. Or maybe I just go used to his looks. He is still smaller than the first male was, so maybe he will perk up as he gets older.

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Male



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
VIEW MORE OF THIS TANK UPDATE ON PREVIOUS PAGE

Here is the male again, this time flaring off a female that is not in the picture. He seems to try to protect that gap in the right hill where the second female is. But he also is not consequent enough in this routine.


Attached Image:

Male Flaring



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The shrimpsters are doing fine as well, although I am never able to count more than 5 instead of the 7 that should be there.

Here is one sitting right on top of a small bushel of BBA on one of the woods. I thought he may go and eat it, but he kept on marching over it and ate something else instead.

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Shrimpster



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And here is another shrimp, eating on top of a bolbitis leaf. Note the bubbles on the bottom of the leave as this plant is pearling every night (shot taken tonight, one day after water change).

That's it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

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Amano on Bolbitis



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LF,

I think your younger female is starting to fill out a bit, same with your male. If you give them the food they need I think they will be just fine.

Were you planing on adding any other fish to the tank? School of something?



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Were you planing on adding any other fish to the tank? School of something?
Actually, not really. Although I sometimes think about it, I find the tank interesting enough as it is right now.

I already have 17 critters in there - 6 Otos, 4 Apistos, 7 Amanos.

In addition, what if I ever have Apisto babies? They need their space as well.

Ingo


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Yeah simple is often much better. I am always tempted to add some other fish to my tank but I kind of like how it is. Plus who knows where I will end up after next semester.

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Oh,

Every day I think about an entry that I want to make here, and every day I either forget or get way too busy at work:

One female has manned the right hill, defending it against any intruder, male or female, fish or shrimp. The breeding has started.

At the same time, the male is supporting the defense of the hill.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by TankWatcher

Keep us posted

EDIT: Forgot to say, nice pics too.

Cheers
TW
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yay!! great news! i, on the other hand, have just lost my beautiful cac male, (i think he shagged himself to death) but i have about 20 fry still between the alpha and beta female...gamma female missed out! also just took delivery of some bolbitus fern, which i'm very keen to get growing - my sturisomas love lying on the wood under it already. wait till you see your first brood, ingo, you'll fall in love with them - but it means less cleaning and less fiddling in the tank too - can you control yourself? justin
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Sorry to read that your male died, but if your reasoning for his death is proper then it is a nice way to go

I will still have to do water changes, but replanting is limited anyway these days because most plants are pretty stable right now. The male is perking up as well and his body color is way more yellow than the old male ever was.

Ingo


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Gang,

As mentioned in length in my 125G log, I didn't find a lot of time to stay on top of things concerning the logs and tanks.

I have been very busy getting all ready for an NJAGC meeting at my place (see siggie).

So quickly,

Weekly Tank Updated - Week 26 and 27

Not much has happened to this tank anyway, so here is last weeks shot:

Attached Image:

Week 26



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Growth is good, and I am very tempted to do the first trimmings of the bolbitis (but not in the mood).

The one thing the club suggested was to remove the tall Crypt from the tank, I am thinking about it for a while before I make up my mind.

Here is the tank after water change this week:

Attached Image:

This Weekend



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As a side result from our meeting I got a little more HC and planted it this weekend. Some of the older HC seems to have settled and I think I see some tiny new growth on it. But it may be wishful thinking.

Here is the HC field now:

Attached Image:

HC



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I have been quite concerned with both of my older Apisto females in the tank, I barely get to see them. Actually - one of them I haven't seen all week (wasn't home too often either) and I thought she died. But finally she came out from the right hill last night.

The males seems to chase both of them as soon as he sees them. I don't know why . Justin - any info on this being normal?

Here is the "lost" female:

Attached Image:

Apisto Female



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The male is all over the tank, and currently seems to seriously court the younger female. She seems receptive, but I don't know if she is ready to breed yet.

Here is a not-so-good shot of the male:

Attached Image:

Male Apisto



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Oh - forgot to mention, he is much more yellowish that the previous male ever was. Not in the fins, but the body. The other male was either pale or dark (when threatened).

Here is the tank from the back:

That concludes it for today,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Back View



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one of them I haven't seen all week (wasn't home too often either) and I thought she died
Could she be guarding, either eggs or wrigglers. Not seeing them for a week will sometimes mean that she is busy providing care.

This happened with mine & also with krib mum too. In the case of the krib, even the dad remained hidden during that period.

Cheers
TW
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i agree with robyn - whenever i don't see my females it's usually them guarding eggs or hiding their young. your male will court whoever is ready for him and will chase other females in an effort to show off his size/strength - treat 'em mean, keep 'em keen. well, that's how i interpret it. i've never had a male who had just one favourite - his favourite happens to be whichever female will have him!!

hope you see babies soon - i just bought a new triple-red boy - he's young but so hot!! he's gonna colour up beautifully, and my females are chasing him all over the tank.

note for robyn - have you been to B and C aquarium in matraville?? i'm in love - best range of dwarf cichlids i've seen in sydney.
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
note for robyn - have you been to B and C aquarium in matraville?? i'm in love - best range of dwarf cichlids I've seen in Sydney.
Grrr, I have no room now. But maybe I will go and have a look anyway. Maybe I could squeeze a pair into my community, at least until my krib fry are big enough to do something with. Then I could transfer them to the breeding tank.

By the way, that's where my bita came from (see my aviator)

Thanks for the heads up Jason

BTW, who is Jason
I guess my error (sorry Justin). I jumped to some silly conclusion that jase101 was somehow derived from the name Jason.

Cheers
TW
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Thanks for the input

I think it could be guarding of something, but it is different than it was the last time around. It never took that long for the females to come out with the wigglers to another spot.

BTW, who is Jason ?

Thanks again, Justin and Robyn,

Ingo


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This tank has really filled in beautifully, it's my favorite of your tanks. I especially like your use of the bolbitus. I may borrow your usage of it when i set up my own big tank


Back in the saddle!
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Thanks NowherMan6,
I may borrow your usage of it when i set up my own big tank

This can be done, if you show up at one of the meetings

I appreciate the comments on the tank, albeit there is still work that needs to be done to it. The NJAGC gang suggested to use Nana Petites instead of the Nanas, but that would be $$$

Ingo


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I appreciate the comments on the tank, albeit there is still work that needs to be done to it. The NJAGC gang suggested to use Nana Petites instead of the Nanas, but that would be $$$
Didn't I say the same thing a while back? The Nana does however look much better than the normal Anubias Barteri.

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The NJAGC gang suggested to use Nana Petites instead of the Nanas, but that would be $$$

So you have a whole team working on your tank First Jeff Senske and now Jay Luto.



My Scapes
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Jay took the pictures during our second meeting, the one at my house. One can see these when clicking the link in my siggie (as I assume tetratech did) and then simply click on "Second meeting was held" (as long as it is still available there).

I would have asked tetratech to join as well, but he is living maybe a little too far away, he doesn't like the Jersey water, and he would have to give out his real name

NowherMan6 is a member, or should I not have mentioned that

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Actually I hadn't seen that. I just saw Jay's name listed as a member. So Nowher is a member. What's the first name. My guess is Cosmo.

Nice pics, I didn't see my name (Wisteria Wizard) mentioned as the Wisteria expert/influence.

BTW the 40g looks much better without all the ground cover. Take out the Blyxa and put it somewhere else.

Looks like a nice bunch of guys. I might be willing to reveal my identity. Would the group make a road trip to L.I. to see "Two sides of Paradise"?

My Scapes
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LF,

I just checked out the NJAGC site with your tanks. I really like the picture of your 125G from the left that also shows your 29G. It sounds like you guys had a good time!

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Yes, I am proudly also a member of NJAGC I just haven't made it to any meetings yet. I'll have to check when the next one is, hopefully I can make that one. Partially I'm embarrassed to show my face, since I've no clippings to give anyone

I'm waiting for the official FP meeting in LFs basement. if we all chip in can we fly bensaf in from overseas?


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if we all chip in can we fly bensaf in from overseas?
I guess I am on my own coming from MI?

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I really like the picture of your 125G from the left that also shows your 29G.

I am glad it is a little dark, that picture, as I am the dude sitting between the tanks.
I might be willing to reveal my identity. Would the group make a road trip to L.I. to see "Two sides of Paradise"?

Not certain, we have members in NYC and Brooklyn, but not any further out in the depth of the Island. You most likely would have to come to Jersey about once a month if you want to be in the meetings (and that is what this is all about, more so then the forum part of it). I thought of you, but then considered the feasibility and didn't come up with a conclusion.
Partially I'm embarrassed to show my face, since I've no clippings to give anyone ... I'm waiting for the official FP meeting in LFs basement.

Any time my friends, any time.

Ingo


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Well, as mentioned in the 125G, work is keeping me away from the forum for two weeks now already.

Anyway, quick update on the tank:

Weekly Tank Update - Weeks 28 and 29

Not much has happened, tank is doing ok, fish are fine, although the Apistos are all over the place, as sign of non-successful breeding (but that's cool too).

Here is the tank last week:

Attached Image:

Week 28



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And here is the tank today, week 29. As you can see, pretty much looks the same. I did some minor changes, but they are mostly visible on the back side.

Here is the full-on front:

Attached Image:

Week 29



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Here is an angled look, showing the remains of the HC a little better in the center of the tank.

Some stuff seems to have started to grow a little, but it is really tiny, almost as if it is missing something. I would say it is the lack of light. We will see.

Attached Image:

Angled



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Here is a look at the tank from the back, one cannot see all that much as it looks pretty dark. The change I made is that I removed the last group of Pearl Grass, not because I didn't like it but because less (species) is more. Instead, I planted some Blyxa in its place that has been grown in other sections of the tank.

Attached Image:

Back



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This is a really bad shot, but while I actually tried to get a closer look at the new Blyxa group I noticed during the review that there are 3 Otos being followed (or looked at) by a female Apisto,

Here it is:

Attached Image:

Otos - Apisto



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And here is a better look at the new Blyxa group.

Well, that's it for now anyway, hope you like it and hope to have more time soon,

On to the 29 Log,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Blyxa



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I like this tank better than your big tank. I think it's the fuller look I like plus the archway you have in the middle of this tank.

Just sharing my personal preference.
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Tank is looking really nice, even though you continue to be so busy. BTW, I hope you had a nice Christmas and HAPPY NEW YEAR to you.

Cheers
TW
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Really love how the bolbitus has grown in. Looks great LF.

Good luck with work (I read the other log), hope you get a break soon!


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Hi folks,

As mentioned in my 125G log, I have been really busy so far this year. Just like that tank - this one has seen some neglect as well. Nevertheless, things have been pretty good with the tank.

Here it is this weekend, week 33 I think.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank in Week 33



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