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The we can fast forward to last weekend, the last week with the Mother Barteri in place. I always knew that this plant is only a placeholder, but it beat an empty spot any time:

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Last Weekend

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And here is the tank now this weekend. As announced, the Barteri is gone and some starter Bolbitis (African Water Fern) has been put in its place. This is most likely not the final positioning of this plant either, it will be more defined when additional plants are purchase (like more Nanas) and when I know what to do with the ground cover.

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Tank Now

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Here is a closer look at the Bolbitis group, from the main viewing side of the tank. I like the fact that it is of a darker green than the surrounding micro swords, it contrasts nicely.

Getting it onto the wood was not all that easy, I also tried to avoid tying it up to tightly as this may cause the roots to die off.

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Bolbitis

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Here is an even closer look at the Bolbitis. I like the shape of the leaves and if I had a choice then I would wish for it to stay like this, just fuller.

Quite a bit of Java Moss had been tangled up in the Bolitis, I hope I was able to remove it all as the last thing I want is some wild growing moss all over this tank.

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Closer

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And here is an even closer look at this plant.

One can see how the end pieces uncurl during the growth of the plant. Reminds me so much of emersed fern.

Does anyone know if this plant grows emersed as well?

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Closest

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Make sure to see the pictures on the bottom of the previous page

Here is a shot of the tank from the rear, taken in the classic Ingo-angle - straight on.

In this shot one can also see the bubble wand of CO2 rising from the repositioned diffuser on the left. Ever since the repositioning and the using of the ADA tubing I have no issues anymore with the hose coming off.

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Rear View

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And here is the tank from the same side, this time shot from a slight downwards angle but still trying to show most of the interior. It gives a little better view of the wood that creeps along the substrate and the rocks on the left island:

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Angled Back View

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And here is a shot from the main view, taken in a similar angle.

I don't really see much improvement from this angle vs. the straight on shot, except that one can see more depth of the micro sword and more of the Anubias group contained on the right hill.

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Angled Main View

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Going back to the rear view, here is a closeup of the Bolbitis group. If you look in front of that group you may notice some small crypts there. These are some plantlets from the Red Wendtii that I had in the 125G that had to go to make place for the Mother Barteri. I am not sure if they will grow in, but we will see.

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Also Crypts

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And here is another shot of the new Bolbitis group, taken from the left short side of the tank (in relationship to the main view).

From that angle, it looks pretty full.

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Left Side Shot

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The wood branches closest to the CO2 output show some reddish brown algae on them. This image, although un-altered, makes it appear worse than it really looks like when one is looking at the tank directly.

This algae comes from what again?

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Algae

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Another proof that the Anubias in this tank are settling in is that they begin to produce the first flowers (except for the ones they already had when I got them). Typically for all my new Anubias flowers in all tanks, they release a small stream of oxygen until they are open. No idea why

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New Anubias Flower

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Altough one would not notice from a full tank shot, the Blyxa is still there and doing fine. Growth is not very strong, but neither does it disintegrate.

Here are two of the 3 plants that I have in the tank. And yes, at some point they may be repositioned.

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Blyxa

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Here is now the last picture of plants in this tank, as requested a few times by tetratech.

The micro sword has settled to the point where rotting of individual leaves has stopped and the plants seriously start to spread via runners.

Here is a good example:

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Runners Running

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And here is the last shot for now, not even taken in this tank.

A nice shot of the male Double-Orange, although I have to say that his new growth on the fins is actually yellow and not orange. Maybe it will turn more orange over time.

Everything else with regards to my Apistos is still the same, I am most certain that all 3 are males

That is it for now,

Have fun,

Ingo

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Apisto

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Well Matty, you asked for it

Like the fern I would much prefer to see the fern and the nana in each group (I know your ordering more).

The blyxa in my tank took a long-time to settle in. Before I saw any bushiness. Definitely as little shade as possible.

Thanks for the great microsword runner shot. That's good, sometimes that plant doesnt do anything. Did you lose any original leaves or did everything stay pretty much intact?

My Scapes

I really like your new Bolbitis. The shape of the leaves are very interesting. I haven't seen anything like that around here.

Everything is looking good.

Your double orange looks really pretty too, the yellow & orange make him look especially colourful. What are your plans, if you now think them all males?



Cheers
TW

TW - His plans are obviously to come down to my lfs where we have a tank full of orange flash females for $9.

Seriously though, Ingo. You want me to ship one out? We have oxygen in our store. That you cover expenses is all I would ask.

Well Matty, you asked for it

Sure did and thank you for the better angles of your tank. The shots from above really do improve the amount of depth percieved on this end of the internet. I knew it was there, but only because I've seen a 40 breeder before. I'd still like one from the side and an odd angle containing two panes of glass, is you ever happen to get a chance. Honestly I like the tank from the rear the best. The driftwood is pushed back a bit more and the rocks help create some depth there that you do'nt get from the "front". I'm definitely going to have to try some of that blyxa, once I get to the grassy feild stage in my tank. I like that stuff.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks you two for the input, here are the answers to your questions:

Micro Sword - I lost quite a bit of the initial load, that was to be expected as I had to bunch it into small plugs (ripped from a giant mat) to plant it. Some of the plantlings in these plugs may not have had rooting parts and as such died off, others may have been injured during the plugging.

Apisto Plans - First of all I am most convinced that I will return the male Triple-Red, maybe in a week or two. I may give the other Double-Orange a chance to color up some more, but he/she shows already signs of male finnage structure. Then I will try to have the LFS order me some female Double-Orange, 2 to be exact. Overall, this has been a frustrating experience and the first time the LFS (most likely) failed me twice in a row on a similar issue (selling me 2 pairs that are all male).

Ingo

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Wow Matty,

Didn't see your entry until after I posted mine.

I think that would be awesome, if you for sure would know that they are FEMALE DOUBLE-ORANGE (AKA ORANGE FLASH). So if you have them in the store, can you check if my "maybe" female double-orange looks anything like the ones you have?

Also, I will take more 2-pane shots especially for you , maybe tonight.

How would we go about the fish transfer, and when? I would be most certainly interested and of course pay all expenses.

Ingo

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Off the top of my head the subordinate males look like your maybe female. I know almost for certain we have them as orange flash, and looked as such to me when i saw them. The males with them either look like your definite male or maybe female. I'll go take a pic today, and if you like post it up here. If you like the pic, then I can run into the store tomorrow double bag with oxygen and send it out to you.

The only thing is that I'm unsure of the whole boxing thing, and how that's supposed to go. I know I'd obviously overnight it, but all our styros at the store are big. Being that it's summer and mild weather I could just jam a whole bunch of newspaper in an appropriate sized box. Any suggestions?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Please please please,

Take many pictures and post them here, preferably from a male, sub male, and loads of female shots.

My sub male/female shows all starter signs of being a male, elongated (albeit smaller than the other's) first rays of the dorsal fin, and elongated outer rays of the caudal fin.

About shipping: That was one of my biggest questions, the packaging. I never shipped or have received fish via mail in my whole life, so I have no idea. I for sure think that the more shock absorbtion is there the better it is, but that is all I know. I don't even know if one should mark the box with something like "Live Animals - Handle with Care".

Let's see the pictures and then we will know more. Maybe somebody else can join in and suggest a proper method.

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Well we have what I think is a pretty good idea of a female cac orange flash, I got a couple people to concur with me:



Here's the most obvious male:



And a triple red female with male in background(I thought you still need one of these?):

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty, that triple red cac female looks like my agassiz female. . If my female is a cac female someone's gonna have a long day tomorrow.

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My Scapes

tetratech,

Female Apistos look a lot alike, even between species. There is not much difference between them, maybe the black line and the overall body shape vary mostly.

Anyway, what do you guys think? Are they of the same sex?

In any case, I am most certain that my Triple-Red is not a female, after seeing the picture from Matty. Matty, thousand thanks so far /:'

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Females?

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I believe mine's younger and still has more female traits than yours. The dorsal fin is more blunt and less colorful, and the caudal is not lyrate(though not visible in the pic very well. Most importantly IMO, the ventral fins are black.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Most importantly, the ventral fins are black

I also tried to identify this particular marking in your picture, but wasn't quite sure if that was the case. But if you say so, and combined with all other signs, I completely agree with you and say that I in fact have 3 MALES swimming in my QT

I will try to have a talk with the LFS tonight, if my time permits.

So, what now?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

So, what now?

You let me know what(if) you want, and I'll send it to you. I'll dig up a thread on sending fish to see how to box it up.

EDIT: It sounds like any ol' box will do with some peanuts or styrofoam will do. In warm weather it seems it's unnecessary to use heater packs or actually use styrofoam as that's mostly for insulation. I'll use a box and probably wrap/pack with paper, double bag with oxygen if that's fine with you.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty,

That would be very nice of you, but can we hold off for one more day?

I would like to make a visit to the LFS tonight first to tell them my plan of action. Remember that these two pseudo females (one Triple-Red and one Double-Orange) cost me $50 to get, so I will have to secure the return policy first. Imagine that they, for whatever reason, insist on replacing them with females. Then I would have 4 and that is too much for a 40G with only two hills.

Thanks so much,

Ingo

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If we hold off a day it will have to wait until wednesday. I don't have any free time tomorrow until after 6:30. I definitely understand your concern, so we'll do it wednesday unless they want to give you another couple confused gender apistos.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks Matty,

Wednesday should be fine with me, definately better than today.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK,

So I was at the LFS last night and had a long chat with the main freshwater guy, Tom. The main good thing was tat they had a tank with 6 female Double-Reds right there where we were talking(custom order for one person), and as soon as I saw it I could point out all the differences to mine. And there are sooooo many differences, like all the fins and the yellowing body color and the black in the ventral fin.

I pretty much cleared up any doubt and concluded that I have all males. Overall, we concluded the following:

- I will return both sub-males on Wednesday and hold on to the Double-Orange super male
- I will receive a $50 store credit for them
- I will ask Matty to send 2 Orange Flash females to arrive on Thursday
- If they make then that is that
- If they don't make it then I will order (custom) 2 females from the LFS, which may take up to 4 weeks

Now - should I move the male out of the QT so that in case of an illness in the new arrivals (like Ich) he would not be affected? Would make sense, but he would be in the unfinished 40G that may require some wood removal for more planting and stuff.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The apistos at our store looked pretty healthy and have been there a while, but I never tell anyone to risk it. I would put the male in the 40. Besides that the females are going to need some time to recover from the trip, and as I said, I do believe they are a bit younger than the male you have. It might be beneficial for them to have some time alone to beef up.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

That sounds like a good reason to move the male, I think I will do that tonight. Then I can focus tomorrow on the removal of the two sub-males and on Thursday on the addition of the two females from you. I hope you were able to put a hold on them.

Let me know what information you need from me to close the transfer deal.

Thanks again,

Ingo

EDIT: I also ordered 15 additional Anubias Nana for the tank.

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Sounds good LF - told ya, harems are the way to go

Also interested to see what you do with the anubias

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Back in the saddle!

Also interested to see what you do with the anubias

So am I, NowherMan6

I envision that I will plant them around the Bolbitis group, and maybe change the group on the right in that process as well.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK,

The event of fish-switching has started with the first leg, putting the male in the 40G. He was an easy catch in the QT as he is strotting around it like he owns that place (I guess he does). So forcing him into the open left front corner was a breeze, and from there it took 2 seconds until he was in the net.

Here he is now, still in the bag, on his at least one hour adjustment to the water params of the 40G:

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In the Bag

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Gorgeous fish

><>

Ditto, gorgeous fish

Cheers
TW

Thanks superlion, (EDIT: and Robyn, didn't see your entry til now)

Always appreciated when others like the same fishies than I do.

Here he is about 1 minute after the release, and about 10 seconds before going into hiding under the driftwood of the left hill. I knew that natural cave there will be good for something.

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Right After Release

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Why is his body so dark in both pics. I understand stress, is he that dark or is it the pic.

My Scapes

tetratech,

You may remember the black tear stripe that my male viejita has. He can turn that one on and off depending if he feels threatened or not. The Double-Orange has not really shown such a bar to me (the triple-red does), instead, his whole body turns dark when stressed or threatened.

Here he is exploring the filter intake (not pictured), a first contact situation, aka stress:

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Stressed

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And here he is in the open after adjusting a little, no threatening entity near by, just me .

That is pretty much his all-day-non-stress body color, I have not seen him change into a mating outfit as he has no females

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More Relaxed

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And here is one of the reasons why I will not have to worry about his food intake for the next few days, the last few weeks have seen a healthy growth in the snail population (see also the pic of him 3 shots back, there are snail eggs on the glass).

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Argh

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More Relaxed

O.K. where's "Totally Relaxed"

My Scapes

nice pics. My naughty apistos don't seem to know they should eat snails. Wish they'd read up the facts, get on the programme & start munching.

Cheers
TW

hmmm....yep, I think that one's a male Ingo .

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

tetratech - I don't think I have ever seen him totally relaxed as he always had to be on guard to show the other 2 (males) who is the boss in the 20 QT. Maybe he will surprise me once he sees females.

Robyn - you don't see your Apistos performing stealth attacks to decoration and substrate, and then picking up invisible things? That's the snails. Mine would never eat a large one like the one in the picture above, but they will keep the small ones in check.

Matty - Gee thanks, let's just hope that your females don't look like him then

Ingo

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$5 says Matty sends LF two more males just for a lark... any takers?

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Back in the saddle!

I will drop them off at your house then, Rich

Matty would never do that, right ?



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You can drop them off at my house if you want! I like them!

Congrats on getting things figgured out with your fish and that the LFS hooked you up.

As for the Anubias. Nana is going to be much better than the normal sized but Pette (how ever you spell that) would be much cooler. The smaller the plants the larger the tank looks.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wingsdlc,

About the LFS hooking me up: that was Matty and not the LFS, they only take back the supposed females and give me store credit (what should I buy then for that money, cories?)

Nanas:

You may not know (or remember) this, but I have 5 Nana Petite in my 125G, all the way in front of the Java Fern. I have them since a few months now and their size is still pretty small.

Here is some math:

- One can easily assume that at least 4 Petites are needed to fill the space occupied by one regular Nana, even when not fully grown yet.
- The hill on the right of my tank contains 10 Nanas at $5 each.
- To replace them with Petites, I would need 40 of them at $8 a piece (same retailer, not to mention that getting 40 at once would be a huge problem).
- That means that my total cost, just for that hill, went from $50 to $320

Honestly, as nice as they are, they are not worth that much money for me.

If you have a cheap and relaible source for them, let me know.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I under stand whats going on with the fish. I ment it was nice for them to take them back for credit. They could have said "Sorry!".

I see your point with the Anubias. Using the Petite would get just a little pricey. Nana will still be much better than the regular.

$50......

Corries would be pretty cool but you have to get neat ones.

What about a 4L jug of Flourish?


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

What about a 4L jug of Flourish?

What about one? I just got a 2L jug.

The wife just called and told me that the Anubias have already arrived and I have no time to plant them tonight. I guess I will have to float them for a few days (until the weekend).

Ingo

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OK well I sent Ingo two more males today...it was males you wanted right?

Well, for real I sent out the two most feminine looking apisto cac "orange flash" that I could get my hands on. Both were turning yellow, had a lot of black on thier ventral fins, had a bluntish dorsal fin, and their caudal fins were definitely not lyrate. The black eye markings were showing up as well. I didn't bring my camera, so I will let LF do the honors tomorrow.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I am sure that your anubias will be fine floating for a few days. Didn't tetra have a bunch of it in a bucket in his garage for months?

Matt you are such a nice guy. I can't wait to see the fish you sent him!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks wings. I can't wait to see them in his tank either. And as I told him over pm, if they make it and we see some breeding activity maybe even some eggs and fry it will be MORE than worth the little trouble(no trouble really, I had to stop in there anyways, and I had 3 hrs to kill between classes). Even if they just make it and live out healthy lives it will be worth it.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Well Matty,

Although I expressed my thanks to you already in the PM, I would like to repeat them here. I find it very honerable that you ship to fish to a dude in NJ whom you have never met. And then you don't even want to get paid for it

Don't worry, just returning the 2 males joke

Anyway, I can't wait to get them tomorrow and hope they will be all right in transit.

Here is a short picture story of today's events. First off the Anubias order came in. They sent me one more, total of 16, maybe because 2 of them had only 3 leaves:

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16 Anubias

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Next, I stuffed them in the tank and tried to position them around the wood pieces so they don't float up too close to the light:

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All in Tank

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Then it was time to catch the (fe)males for the return to the LFS. I thought it would be pretty hard to get them, in particular the very shy double-orange. But, after removing the light and the glass top from the tank it was almost a breeze and took me maybe one minute to catch them both, with the above mentioned one being one of the easiest fish I ever caught.

Here they are:

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Bagged Up

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A last close-up of the male Triple-Red, the first one to be re-classified as being male. As such, I guess he cannot be really called Triple-Red as there is no red in his fins what-so-ever.

Good bye, my friend

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Good Bye TR

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the Double-Orange, probably looking his most male ever in any shots I have taken of him (assuming it was a her). This one took a while before showing clearer signs of manhood.

One day, he actually could be a very handsome Double-Orange.

Good buy, my friend

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Good Bye, DO

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Once I had them in the store, even Tom, the main freshwater guy, could see that they were male, and I got my store credit without any problems. I hope he will find them nice homes.

And here is the one that is awaiting the arrival of his two wives, although hey for sure will go into the QT for a while first.

Thanks, and now its time for bed,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Male DO, remaining in Tank

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yeah, mine are much more feminine. I'm not sure if I should be bragging about that though. No doubt anymore what those two were. It can happen, I guess. It just kills me that 2 pair were that way.

LF, your bagging skillzzz are definitely lacking. Look how saggy those are. They look like a pair of 70 year old....well you get the idea. At least you bagged them with a proper amount of air. Most fish we get come in either tupperware, or a clozed ziplock full of water and no air.

And you are very welcome Ingo, I hate to see a fellow aquarium enthusiast in trouble

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

I have to say that DO male looks particularly cranky to be kicked out of the tank & into the plastic bag .

The male that you've chosen to keep has particularly beautiful coloured fins. Good choice.

Looking forward to seeing the new arrivals.

Cheers
TW

Matty,

Funny thing about the two pairs that I got with all of them being male: they came from 2 different wholesalers. Yeah, my bagging skills are lacking, mostly because I am too hesitant to give the bag a good twist and stuff when closing off the top. I never want to give the fish more inconvenience than needed, and given that the LFS is about 10 min away they had way more air than needed anyway.

Robyn,

Yeah, I have never seen the bagged DO spread its fins like that in the tank, probably because he would have provoked the other two quite a bit by doing so.
I don't think I even had to spend one second on deciding which one to keep, it was natural to me to keep the dominant one. I don't want to end up with a male that might spend his days hiding in a film canister instead of showing off his finnage .

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

a male that might spend his days hiding in a film canister instead of showing off his finnage

Aggggh, that's exactly what my wimp is doing, hiding from his wife.

Cheers
TW

Aggggh, that's exactly what my wimp is doing, hiding from his wife.

Gee - I wonder why I was writing this in the first place? Hm, maybe it had to do with the photo in your log

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I knew exactly why you wrote that, as soon as I read it

Cheers
TW

8/31/2006 5:41:00 AM ARRIVAL SCAN PARSIPPANY, NJ US

Uh, I guess it will be at my house soon then
How long would you guys think the fish are good in the bag?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Have you taught your wife how to acclimatise. I am able to trust my daughter that she knows how to do this. She knows the drill - lights out, float the bag & then very, very gradual small additions of tank water to the bag over a period of at least an hour or more. Release the fish & leave the lights out to reduce stress while new fish settles.

Could you explain all this to your wife?

Cheers
TW

Male DO, remaining in Tank

Looks like he's saying "Where are the women, give me women, lots and lots of women"



My Scapes

How long would you guys think the fish are good in the bag?

I can only judge by looking at them in the bag. If they look bad, it's a quick acclimation and a dump into the tank. Sometimes fish can last days and days in the bag. Sometimes much less. I was pretty careful with the bagging for your fish, with oxygen and what not, so I would think they'd be ok. They were guaranteed to arrive right about now(10:30am).

To really answer your question, at work they double bagged a feeder goldfish in a bag like those in your pics and left it in the store to see how long it would last. It was a little bet between the management. At two weeks the thing was still alive and let back into the tank, or maybe it was fed to an oscar or something.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

It was a little bet between the management. At two weeks the thing was still alive and let back into the tank, or maybe it was fed to an oscar or something.

Goldfish get no respect! Matty have you ever ad those bags that the o2 flows thru?

My Scapes

They were guaranteed to arrive right about now(10:30am).

Grrrr, the wife is out right now, I hope they did not take the package back with them.

I will keep you posted.

Tetratech - yeah, I am sure the male will be happy once he gets his girls, in about 2 weeks or so.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

No, we've never had those "breathable" bags. The regular old plastic jobbies seem to get the job done well enough for business I guess. The most important time to use it would be shipping, and we don't get much of a say in what bags we get the fish in. So I don't think the store would spend the extra money(unfortunately) to get the breathable bags for the people who are driving the fish to their house down the street. I would like to try some of those out though. Anybody else ever tried them out?

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

OMG

THE RECEIVER WAS UNAVAILABLE TO SIGN ON THE 1ST DELIVERY ATTEMPT. A 2ND DELIVERY ATTEMPT WILL BE MADE

I cannot believe they didn't simply leave the package at the house

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I believe the way it works is, on overnight deliveries, if it's not specified that the package should be left at the door they won't leave it.

Will the next delivery attempt be made today or tomorrow? Was it shipped Fedex? You may be able to get them to hold it for you at a FedEx location if you call them up, or you may be able to get them to contact the driver and have him/ her leave it at the door if another attempt will be made today.

If they're not going to try again until tomorrow, i would call them and have them re-route the box to your work office for tomorrow. That way you can at least check them out, make sure they're OK, open the bag if necessary and re-tie it with more air etc. I know those port authority bus rides are killer but it may be worth it for the fishies...

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Back in the saddle!

Best bet would be to call them and see if you can get a hold of the package today. Either having it re dropped at your house or see if you can pick it up from the wearhouse.

One of my co-workers used to work for Fedex and he said it didn't matter what the package said on it, they were all treated with the same handling. You can guess how that is.

Best wishes!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I called the UPS number and found out - from a machine - that the 2nd delivery attempt would be made tomorrow

I then talked to an operator and we concluded that he will call me back within an hour to let me know if they can attempt a second delivery today. If not, if - and when - I would be able to pick them up at a UPS Center, about at least 40min away from my house, given that it is not rush hour.

Not good,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The emotions are going down and up, that creates a tremendous stress on my, I am so hyped up.

UPS tried to call the driver but he was out at lunch so they left him a message. Shortly after that, our regular UPS guy shows up at our house with a delivery and, after talking to my wife, tells her that the fish are on the truck of his bosses van a few blocks away. He brought them in just before 3PM.

Now they are in the hands of the wife, who has never acclimated a fish in her life. I gave her instructions last night, and I guided her over the phone through the process of putting the bag into the tank, now she is on her own. But I have faith.

Oh - obvioulsy, both are still alive, that is all I know about their condition right now.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thats great LF! I am very happy for you. I am sure your wife will take good care of them. I know I could trust my wife with such things too!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Good to hear LF. I trust you didn't give her drip method instructions, did you?

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Back in the saddle!

No, I told her to add one small measuring cup every 7 min, 5 times, and then another 5 times the double load.

That should do. The critical part will be her having to fish them out of the bag without smushing them or dropping them on the floor.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I believe the way it works is, on overnight deliveries, if it's not specified that the package should be left at the door they won't leave it.

I'm sorry about this Ingo, I thought it was the other way around, that I had to specify that a signature was necessary. At least that's the way it's worked with me before. I suppose I should've said that it was to be delivered by 10:30 too. I'm not very good at these things, but I hope they are doing well.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matty no problem, you did your best and better than I would have done

Anyway:



I decided on a different acclimatization plan. Instead of doubling the dosage half way through I decided to have the wife add the single dosage until I came home. This way she didn't have to fish them out of the bag. That means that they have been acclimated for over 2 hours. Well I released them, and in addition I removed the only adult male platy from the tank (into the 29) as he is rather mean to new entries and Matty's Apistos are smaller than the ones that were in there before. Next I turned on the light.

Just a few minutes later they came out from hiding (but not for too long) and one can already see that one of them will be the female boss (larger). But, without a doubt, they are females (or very very good acting males ).

Later, they came back out and started to eat "substrate", or whatever invisible food they find in it.

Here is the boss-female

Attached Image:

Boss Female

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And here is a picture of the other female. Besides being a little smaller she also looks a little more beat up from the trip, but not so bad that I worry about her.

Now I have to make sure that they get good and enough food so they put on their party dress.

Attached Image:

Other Female

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hey, those look familiar


*let's out sigh of relief* Glad they got there safe and sound. I think it's a good thing you put the male into the 40. He probably would have been a little too rough on the new girls, as I said they are a bit on the smaller side, but were good and healthy(when they left at least). The second smaller one looks to have gotten a bit skinny, and her caudal fins a bit beat up. I guess that's manageable though. The first female looks pretty good though. Hope it's all smooth sailing from here/:'

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yay, Yipee, Yahoo for the safe arrival. They look sooo much more like females. I never thought your others did, right from the start. You really wonder how the breeders made such a mistake twice, when even a know nothing like me thinks they see a problem.

The girls may not put on their party dress until they are with the male. My triple red doesn't seem to have a breeding dress - she's just yellow all the time. But the troublesome twosome, I had them separated for a time when there was agression. During separation - no party dress at all. But within 30 mins of re-joining the male, there she was, dressed up to hilt.

Anyway, now you can relax and have fun.

Plus a big cheer for a first time acclimatisation by your wife. I knew she could do it. /:'

Cheers
TW

LF,

Congrats! on the safe arrival of your new fish.
Listen, I'm not trying to stir up anything, but your tellimg me one of these fish is a female agassizi and the other a cac.

Attached Image:


My Scapes

Well what can you say, most apisto females look very similar. Probably wouldn't be able to tell at all until they are adults, and even then it's pretty difficult. Agassizi females will have shorter dorsal fins and generally the only markings in casual dress is the eye stripe and a dot in the middle of the body. Cac females have a tiny bit of the dorsal spike in them and pretty much always have a full dark stripe across the body. Her caudal fin might be a bit flatter as well, because male cacs have a lyrate caudal fin, while agassizis have a lanceolate caudal fin.

I dunno if that helps at all.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Thanks all for the input.

For the rest of last evening the fishies were busy finding food in the tank, in particular the younger one (but also the other oneZ) did not quite understand that the flakes that are raining down are food. Same happened to my previous Apistos when they were new in the tank, so I don't worry about it.

About the agassizi female: tetratech, I don't think that yours is a cac (but hey, I had 2 males for 4 weeks and thought they were females ). Your picture seems to match them closely, but this is only because your fish swims in an angle to the camera and as such appears shorter than she is. I believe to remember that she is more elongated than cacs. And I have seen female agassizi pictures where there is a full horizontal stripe and not only a black dot (I also think I have seen this in person in the LFS).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

hi ingo,
well, i hate to say i told you so...hehehe!! i felt like such a prat when i said they looked like males, but it turns out alright in the end! those two new fish both look like lovely little ladies to me! i'm sure you'll have little broods in no time at all once you reintroduce yr male. best of luck,

justin

ps - as regards the agassizi female above, i've never seen a female cac's body stripe extend in front of the eye, whereas i'm pretty sure this is standard in the agassizi - but hell, the females all do look rather similar.

i hate to say i told you so...hehehe!!

And right you were, thanks for bringing it up at that time as that was the trigger for the recent events.

On the Apisto frontier, not much new to report except that the smaller female did something I have not seen before in a fish. She was sitting on the substrate and wiggled her back half from side to side, not just the way back like they would do when maintaining position in a current. It looked like she is spreading out eggs, but that would be very unlikely. Otherwise, she is fine.

Here are both of them in a shot from last night:

Attached Image:

Females

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i've never seen a female cac's body stripe extend in front of the eye, whereas i'm pretty sure this is standard in the agassizi

Good catch jase. I didn't notice that until you pointed it out. It's amazing how they look similiar with the black on the front of the dorsal and then the orange, etc...

The look good LF

My Scapes

Yeah,

Justin for sure seems to know his Apistos, he easily puts my sense for detail to shame

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update - Week 12

The tank has seen a few changes during the past week, mostly with the addition of the 16 new Anubias Nana. The initial plan was to make their position more permanent this weekend as I just stuck them in the tank during the week when they arrived, but a lack of time, motivation, and inspiration left me with them as they were before the water change. In order to make them more permanent a few other things in the tank would have to change as well, and I know that process would take me a few hours to complete.

The other change was the addition of the male Apisto so he is not molesting my new females that I received kindly from Matty.

Here is the tank last week:

Attached Image:

Last Week

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And here is the tank now this weekend.

The additional changes I am talking about include probably both wood groups as I am still not too happy about how fragile these arrangements are. Basically, ever water change moves some branches around and I am constantly worried to smush one of the Otos underneath. Also, cleaning the glass is pretty hard as my hand touches the branches and they fall over or at least get pushed out of place.

Attached Image:

Tank Now

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The one plant that is rather a dissapointment in this tank is the Micro Sword. I think it would look better in my 125G if it would be able to spread in gravel substrate as well as it does in this tank (btw, not the fasted spreader, so far).

Here is a look at the center section of the tank. As you may see, the swords are rather untidy and don't do much to the look. I think I will start off with emptying out the most center part of it, all the way from front to back. This will at least help to promote the idea of hills a little more than the current setup does.

Attached Image:

Swords In Center

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On a positive note, my Anubias from the first installment are getting their first flowers that were completely grown in my tank (I had some before, but they were inherited from the grower).

Here is the stage a few days before opening:

Attached Image:

Nana Flower To Be

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Now a few pictures as a tribute to Matty and the very nice fishies he provided me with.

First off, the weaker female, although I begin to see that she is not too intimidated by the other one. Her caudal fin is still a little beaten up, but this has so far never been an issue for any of my fishies, most of them were a little "under the weather" when they arrived.

Attached Image:

Female Orange Flash

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And here is a shot of the other female, she has been in excellent shape when she arrived this week. I have rarely had a fish with so little damage to fins, no matter what species:

Attached Image:

Other Female

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Here is another look at her, given that I usually take most of my pictures when the full side of the fish is visible. She is a little more out in the open than the other one, but both of them are not constant hiders either:

Attached Image:

Female

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And here is probably the best shot I got of her so far, but hopefully I will have many more chances to get even better ones.

Now, having these fish at hand, I cannot believe that I have been unable to identify the other ones as males. It is so obvious now. Nevertheless, I hope my two males (pseudo females) will find nice homes.

Attached Image:

Good Posing

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View pictures and comments on previous page as well, please.

Here is the last one of the female shots, I promise (at least for this session )

The interaction between the females is way more friendly than the one between the males was. Yes, they also try to clear the rankings, but on a much less aggressive scale. Mostly, a slap with the caudal fin can be seen, occasionally a little nudge with the mouth to the side. But more often than not the stronger one is following the weaker one at a slow pace, no chasing per se.

And one can also observe them swimming together once in a while, like here:

Attached Image:

2 Females

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Lastly, here is the man that awaits their arrival in this tank. He must be very lonely these days as the Otos don't really care about him and as he had spent the previous almost 4 weeks fending off the other two males in the QT.

He finally understood the feeding in this tank. He had a little problem aiming for the food on the surface with all the duck weed and the rather fast flow of the water. I turned down the filter output for the time being.

Attached Image:

Male

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,
That male looks like it's fins are on fire. Really a stunner.

It's funny in fish the male is usually the beauty and the female is well "eh"

My Scapes

tetratech,

Yeah, I like him very much, and he is not even fully grown yet. He should grow at least one more inch. Thanks for the compliment.

And about the fish male being the beauty, well that is the same here, I am just unbelievably handsome

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I noticed that the females at times both swim together & I hope that bodes well for a peaceful tank when all 3 are joined.

I have not seem many male orange flashes, but of those I have, yours is the prettiest by far.

Enjoy.

Cheers
TW

have not seem many male orange flashes, but of those I have, yours is the prettiest by far.

I haven't seen many of them either, honestly I didn't even know they exist until I went to the LFS to get a replacement for the dead male Triple-Red.

He looks in particular like being on fire in this shot because the fins are slightly out of focus, that makes them less detailed.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I haven't seen many, but none seem to have the two colour tones of yours. They all seem just a solid orange - which doesn't look as pretty as the two tone of yours.

Cheers
TW

I hear you Robin,

When I got this fish his fins were all orange as well. Now, I have no idea why they turned orange-yellow when they grew. It may be normal, it may have something to do with his diet, or maybe the lack of females is responsible.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That's interesting that it changed. Maybe all orange is for the younger males & as they mature they get the extra colour???

Cheers
TW

Yeah Robyn, that may be the case as well.

Here is again a shot of the fish from around August 1.

As you can see, all orange, no yellow on the outside

Attached Image:

All Orange

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

I don't have much time, I just thought that I share 2 pictures with you (and one in the 125G log).

I know you are all jealous of my Anubias flowers, so here is one more

With Air Bubble:

Attached Image:

Nana Flower

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And:

Who knows why Otos seem to like to hang out on or near the heater? Are they telling me it is too cold in my tank?

Here are 5 of my 6 Otos:

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Cold Otos

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ooo I think that bubble pic is better than mine. The flower also gives that stand alone kind of look. Nice. Try not to cheap out on the electric bills LF. Keep your darn otos warm enough...turn the heater on. Those are nice healthy(fat) looking otos.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Yeah Matty, I will try to keep them warm

I got really lucky (so far) with the Otos. I bought them when they were really young and just arrived at the LFS (maybe the day before). I risked a high mortality rate, but haven't lost one yet.

Thanks for the compliment on the Nana picture

News on the female Apistos: They seem to have settled into the QT by now as the larger female is beginning to chase the smaller one around more than before. Still not to the point of what the boss male did to the sub male.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nice picture of your Otos. I think it is something they have picked up through the years of being in LFS's. Most places dont have the cover for them to hang out on in the storage tanks so the heater is pretty much it for them. They seem to do the same thing in my tank a lot too!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Wings,

That is actually an interesting point. Although I have never researched it, I was under the impression that Otos are all wild caught. Somehow I thought they were hard to breed in captivity.

Ingo

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Everything that I have read at this point says that they are hard to breed outside the wild. I guess I ment to say more on the lines of after being kept in storage tanks for some time(whole salers to LFS) they have picked up on heaters being some of the only things to hang out on in the tank.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Well,

It is Friday, around 6:30 PM, and I am still at work and we just ordered dinner. This means we are going to be here for a while longer.

And - I will be back here tomorrow, so my weekly water change will have to be either late tomorrow or even on Sunday. I guess this eliminates any major change to this and the 125G tank for this weekend, there will be just not enough time .

Ingo

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