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So while talking about CRS. I now have 6 in my tank. The most I have found at one time is 3. What are you guys paying for them out east? My store is selling them for 2.99 each. Don't have any left because I bought half and sold the other.

How good are they on eating algea and such in your tanks?

Here is a neat shrimp link

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

How good are they on eating algea and such in your tanks?

I'm sure they're good, but you'll have to ask someone else.

CRS are quite small so unless you have a nano you would probably need an army of them to have any kind of real impact.

My Scapes

How big are yours? Mine are only about 3/8 inch.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Hi LF,
Ottos will eat the gathering diatoms. Circulation,
light, and above all - the availability of silica (SiO2)
especially in a new tank, is what causes a diatom bloom.

Water changes, primarily, will cut back on the silica and
more light, more circulation will eliminate the diatoms.

I noticed in the pictures of the link, that the water
was riled in the center, but try as I might, I could not
discern the cause. The input/output of the filter must
be well disguised.

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Bensaf will be proud of me as I have yet to measure anything in that tank

Always been proud of you, young Grasshopper

I see the problem now with the spray bar, you are misting a la Barr. The surface will have a hard time moving.

I have my spray bar horizontal at the top of the side glass, angled very slightly upwards, so the entire lenght of the surface gets getle movement. Never have any problems with film on the top.

But I do have my diffuser at the opposite side way down with a small powerhead with spray bar to circulate the co2 bubbles. This is almost invisible in my particular set up but would be an eyesore in yours where front and back are going to be visible.

Looks like pearling to me. The co2 bubbles won't stick to the top side of a leaf, they are oxtgen bubbles coming from the plant.

That also looks like diatoms, time for Ottos ! Better to introduce now to keep the diatoms at bay. That way they can eat it pretty much as it appears. Diatoms also excrete some silica so it becomes a viscious circle and the diatom bllom lasts longer if they are allowed to explode.

The tank tetra linked to is a beauty and pretty much what I had in mind with your wood and rocks. Lots of hardscape being very prominent. Notice how he has the rocks arranged as a platform for the wood.

BTW the rippling effect - easy. Use a hair dryer. That's what they do to create the affect in photo's.There wouldn't be that much movement normally.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

time for Ottos

Thanks Bensaf, I will see what I can do.

My concern is that one thing is for sure: this tank will see an overhaul that at the least will include the removal of all plants (maybe in two phases) and most likely also some re-arrangement of the rocks and wood. In general, I would rather do this before any fish are added, but I also think that the time for this event is not here yet.

Also, I think I will have to measure at least my CO2 (ph and KH) before adding any fish as I assume I have a pretty high reading right now. So - there goes the no measuring

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

My concern is that one thing is for sure: this tank will see an overhaul that at the least will include the removal of all plants (maybe in two phases)

I would do this in many phases over an extended period of time. Try working one small section at a time. No big changes, just alot of smaller ones that add up to the eventual scape.

My Scapes

I hear you tetratech,

The thing is though that I may feel to urge to get more out of the radioactive wood, I am sure I don't have it arranged as good as it could be. This means that at least half of the tank at any point would be involved in the change.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Nothing much new to report.

I did my 50% half week water change last night. With the water level low I touched the brown spots on the Hygro leaves and they come off easily - meaning it is Diatoms. So maybe today or tomorrow I will head out and try to get some Otos, although the last time I was at the LFS they only had small ones, and we know what that means: high rate of death.

After the water change the Star Grass had huge bubbles of air sticking to them, sure more than ever before (including post water change). Meaning, plants seem to be doing well.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

So I went to the LFS tonight and came home with 6 Otos for the tank, they are in the middle of the acclimatisation process.

I pretty much ignored all the rules as I cannot see where else I would get any Otos soon (and we want to eat away the diatoms ):

- They are the smallest Otos on sale I have ever seen
- They were in the store since yesterday

I would say I am really lucky if 3 will survive, keep your fingers crossed.

I have one shot of them in the bag, now the lights are out and I am not going to turn them back on. Here they are:

Attached Image:

New Otos

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Good luck with the otos. I guess you've seen Cali's tips for helping otos survive? So far out of my 6 that I bought, I still have 5. Fingers crossed, for both our otos.

Cheers
TW

Sure did I see Cali's tips, a loooong time ago. I read his article with great interest and was rather touched when he wrote about losing one of his original batch many years later

You know that I have 6 Otos in my 125. They are the survivors of the initial meltdown after purchase when I got I think 13 or so

Thanks for keeping your fingers crossed with me (I will do the same for you ),

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

When I came home from work today, all 6 Otos were still alive and kicking. They sure have a hard time swimming against the current on the side where the spray bar is, but they seem to enjoy doing so anyways.

I also believe to recognize a clear difference in the amount of brown stuff on the Hygro, much less today that yesterday. Now I begin to worry that they will run out of food.

Here is the only good shot of one of them that I got so far, compare its size to the tubing and size of the diffuser. It is tiny Tim

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tiny Oto

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update - Week 2

This week has seen additional growth in the tank, things seem to be going well. I maintained the mid-week water change to keep things going and on Thursday I added 6 tiny Otos to keep the diatoms at bay.

I know it may be a little bit early for a long photo review of the tanks development, but I find the growth of the Star Grass (in particular) so amazing that I am doing it anyway.

Here is the tank after setup, 2 weeks ago:

Attached Image:

After Setup

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Just 3 days later, the Star Grass has grown in already and the tank started to clear up. The wood became more visible and one can see that it is a beauty. Also, the Wisteria started to show signs of growth:

Attached Image:

After 3 Days

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

After one week the Star Grass reached the top and a few stems needed to be cut back already to maintain the water flow on the surface (that problem has later been resolved with the adjustment of the spray bar). Also, the Wisteria and the Hygro are growing nicely and Blyxa has been added.

Attached Image:

After One Week

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

After one and a half weeks the growh of the Hygro is pretty obvious. This group had not seen a trimming (and doesn't receive one so far at all).

Some more of the Star Grass stems were trimmed off and planted wherever I could find a spot in the tank, just to keep it filled up.

Attached Image:

After One and a Half Weeks

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And here is the tank now after 2 weeks, before a Star Grass trimming and the water change. As you can see, growth has been so well that the lower parts on the Star Grass side became all shaded.

Attached Image:

This Weekend - Before Trimming

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A major trim was in order. Almost all Star Grass stems were removed, the bottoms disposed off, and the tops replanted. The Hygro group has not been touched, but I assume that no later than the next weekend I will have to do some trimming there as well.

Just maybe I will order some "real" plants for the tank during this week and start to replace the temps. What do you think? Too early?

Attached Image:

Tank Now

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a shot of the tank after the trimming from the back side. The current there is rather strong and all Star Grass is blown to the right side, around the right hand corner. I have to make sure that the final plants in that area are more solid so they don't bend over too much.

Attached Image:

Tank Back View

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the Blyxa that has been added a week ago. At least it hasn't been uprooted 50 times during that week, except for the taller one in the back of these 2 smaller ones. That one came lose once and was easily pushed back in.

Attached Image:

Blyxa

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

All Otos are still alive, although it takes me about 10 minutes each time when I attempt to find them all. These little buggers are zooming through the tank so fast that it is hard to evaluate if I see a new one or one that had just moved from one side to the other.

Here are 4 of them on the glass.

Attached Image:

4 Otos

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

By now I have ZERO diatoms visible on the plants, in particular the Hygor leaves that I showed in an earlier post are spotless. This of course makes me worried about possible food sources running out for the Otos. Last night, just before lights out, I added two slices of cucumber to the tank, maybe they will nibble on them. Anyone ever has tried to feed Otos cucumbers?

Here are two Otos a little closer:

Attached Image:

2 Otos

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of the Star Grass about 6 hours after the Water Change. The pearls during that time got bigger and bigger, to the point where they created so much buoyancy that a few of the freshly trimmed Star Grass stems came lose and floated to the surface. Darn Pearling

Attached Image:

Bubbles

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, a close-up of the Hygro leaves. I am not showing this picture because of how clean the leaves are (Oto food), but because I think to remember that curled leaves like the ones on the left and right are a sign of some form of deficiency. I remember that Bensaf once explained to me something about old leaves falling off and stuff (found it on page 76 of my 125G log), but I could not find the reference to the curling.

Does anyone know anything about it?

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Curled Hygro Leaves

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi Ingo

Naturally I don't know enough to answer your questions, but I'll be interested to hear how your otos go with cucumber. I worry about mine too, as I see no algae & have never seen them eating the wafers I drop in.

I like ALL your pictures (as always), but you know, I really like the shots of "3 days" & "one Week" for some reason. Maybe because your nice wood shows up more clearly.

Anyway, looking good.

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn for the input

Yeah, the earlier pictures show the wood the best (so far, of course) as the water is already pretty clear and the growth is not all that strong yet. This should be a precursor for things to come once the final version of plants are is in the tank. Hopefully I don't clutter it up too much, but knowing myself I will have a hard time to find the right balance between wood and plants (and rocks).

Thanks again,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Hi,
When I had ottos a while ago, I would blanch the
Cucumbers and then put them in the tank weighted down
to a stone with a rubber band. Within a short while, the
piece of cucumber was covered with ottos and snails all
after the banquet.
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Thanks for the info Frank.

I simply cut off a slice of cucumber, peeled it, then strapped it with thread to a small rock, and added it to the tank. Today, I saw one or the other Oto eat on it, so I guess it was working at least to some degree. Unlike for you, I could not create an Oto frenzy though

Question: How long can I leave the slices in there before they start to foul up the water?

On a different note: Would you folks be so kind and look at my 20G Log in the Aquascaping Forum? I have something new there On Page 5. Also, I would appreciate if a Moderator or Administrator who may read this would be so nice and move that log (and please the 29G log at the same location) to this forum. I would really like to have all my logs over here in the Planted Forum, that is more where they belong to. Thanks in advance, to the mods for moving the stuff and anybody else who may add a comment to it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

That particular type of curling seems to be normal on the Augustifolia. I always have one or two leaves that do that. Not sure why, but it seems pretty harmless. They do say the Augustifolia appreaciates a bit of flow to spread the leaves out. Maybe the curled ones aren't getting enough ? Nothing to worry about though.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

LF,
I have never done the veggie thing but I am pretty sure that you don't want to leave them in for much more than a day.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Bensaf for the update on the leaf shape. I remember that a few leaves from the original branches that I purchased had the same curling, but none of the new ones in the 125G did. As you know, the hygro in the 125 does not sit in a current but on the rather still far end of the tank. Good to know it is not a defficiency though.

Thanks Wings for the info on the cucumber slices, I guess I better take them out tonight and put new ones in.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Yup,

I guess that 2 days are the longest one can leave a slice of cucumber in a tank. The 2 slices did not look all that good anymore when I came home from work tonight (yuk). But they must have still been edible as 3 Otos were munching away on them. Nevertheless, I replaced them with new slices.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks for keeping us updated with the veggies. Hope there are no loses with your oto's yet. I picked up 6 for my tank last thursday. I know exactly what you mean about them being small. When they swim next to the grand parents they really show their size.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I picked up 6 for my tank last thursday

That is when I picked up mine as well

I don't know if I still have 6, but I haven't seen one stuck to the filter intake yet. Last night I counted a max of 5, but they move around to fast and often that I can be happy to see 3 in one shot.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The tank looks nice there Ingo, especially the driftwood and ecocomplete. I'm going to be switching over to that when I start up my tank(which I'm starting to think will be a 50). Anybody want a 5 gallon bucket full of Flourite?

I think the rocks aren't visible enough, but I'm not sure if that's the plan in the future though. Can't wait for the "real" plants to see what you have in mind for this tank.

One last thing....no/few fish and no real algae to speak of. I'm beginning to think tetratech has a point.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Matt,
Where are your from again?

So fish poop algea?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Matty,

Thanks for the input

Some comments:

- I am currently in love with Eco Complete, so much that I soon will upgrade my 29G, which will have to move to the basement anyway.

- I agree with you on the rocks, actually your opinion is shared by Bensaf who pointed it out to me already, so you are in good company

- Real Plants: Anubias, some taller ones like Narrow Leaf Fern, both on the wood islands. Then grass on the fields with a few taller ones, like Blyxa, to break the flow a little.

- Sure does tetratech have a point, but we don't have to tell him that

Thanks Matty,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Matt,
Where are your from again?

So fish poop algea?

I'm from Buffalo, NY.

And yes, fish do poop algae.....indirectly of course.

I agree with you on the rocks, actually your opinion is shared by Bensaf who pointed it out to me already, so you are in good company

oops...I didn't know this subject had already been touched on. I guess this means I have to go back and read all 6 pages again.

- Real Plants: Anubias, some taller ones like Narrow Leaf Fern, both on the wood islands. Then grass on the fields with a few taller ones, like Blyxa, to break the flow a little.

Sounds nice.....So the "temp" plants are really staying in the tank, just in a reduced form, or are you pulling the hygro and star grass out alltogether?

Sure does tetratech have a point, but we don't have to tell him that

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

or are you pulling the hygro and star grass out alltogether?

They will all go, as sad as it is. Overall they will not fit into the vision.

And you don't have to read all entries, as long as you only write good comments

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ok,

So I finally got a picture of the Oto eating the cucumber myself, after Robyn posted hers I sure have to follow suit here .

Also, I accounted for all 6 Otos, I found 4 of them eating cucumber and 2 near by. Good to know they are still around.

Here is one of them:

Attached Image:

Oto Eats Cucumber

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Otos are definitely the acrobats of planted aquaria. Here's one doing a balancing act on a leaf of my aromatica.

BTW - I'm sure the veggies are a good treat but my otos have done fine with almost no additional feeding even in my protist-free tank



Attached Image:


My Scapes

I think that they are more into eating pre-algea. The stuff we probably can't see.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I think that they are more into eating pre-algea. The stuff we probably can't see.

Oh man - now we are going to get a pre-algae breakout in one of LF's tanks.....I know it

Does that count as a good comment LF

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Does that count as a good comment

You be the judge

So far it seems like this tank is spot clean. The few areas where there were any diatoms, mainly some leaves of the Hygro, are spotless by now. The Otos must really have been hungry.

And about the pre-algae outbreak: as long as I cannot see it I don't mind it at all. I am crazy, but not that crazy

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This week has been a very busy one for me, with regards to work, and as such I did not have the time to do a mid-week water change. I hope this doesn screw things up. I added my ferts though. The one thing I noticed, and I mentioned it before, is the collection of stuff on the surface. While I was adding my TMG on Thursday, I was washing out the measuring glass in the tank. I moved it along the surface and captured quite a bit of the stuff in the glass. It is white and quite solid, little bits of it fell into the water and sank down (maybe 1mm long thin strands formed).

I will have to trim the plants (Hygro) some more to keep the surface movement up as it is halted yet again, even with the angled spray bar.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Weekly Tank Update - Week 3

As mentioned in the last entry above, the week was a busy one for me at work with little time left for the tanks. I skipped the water change during mid week and I think that it should not be a problem. I fed some cucumbers to the Otos and I think they are doing fine now, in particular because they managed to eat 2 complete slices within a day and a half.

Review, here is the tank after setup:

Attached Image:

3 Weeks Ago

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

A week later, in particular the Star Grass had grown nicely and requried some pruning. The Hygro was getting taller as well, and so did the Wisteria.

Attached Image:

2 Weeks Ago

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last weekend brought with it the major trimming of the Star Grass group as it reached the surface all over the place. The Hygro wasn't touched.

Attached Image:

1 Week Ago

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

This weekend, the plants in the tank grew so tall yet again that surface movement had completely stopped. The gunk on it makes me a little worried as I assume it would stop the oxygen exchange. Is that right?

Here is the tank before this weekend's maintenance:

Attached Image:

Before Trimming

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As you can see, the Hygro is creating a lot of shade, and so do some of the Star Grass stems. I removed almost all Hygro stems and trimmed off the buttoms and replanted the tops. Further, I removed some of the Star Grass stems that melted because of shading, and others because they looked too ugly mixed into the Hygro.

I don't think I have to worry about not having enough plant mass

Attached Image:

Tank Now

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last but not least, a few into the tank from the other side. This time around I remembered to turn off the lights in the 125G behind it first to avoid the reflection of it in the glass.

Also, yesterday in the morning I noticed that the CO2 hose came off the diffuser and was bubbling straight into the water column. This may have been the case for a max of about 1 day so I don't think it should create too much of a problem.

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

Tank From Back View Now

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

don't think I have to worry about not having enough plant mass

What plant mass? Tank is getting thick! How soon until the real plants show up?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

How soon until the real plants show up?

Maybe in about 2 weeks, but I am not in a rush, to be honest. I will have to order the plants first, then store them in the 20QT until the weekend, plant half of them and keep on storing the rest.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I see, Its a good thing you don't have any fish in lock down right now. Going to be a pretty big plant order I have a feeling.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Weekly Tank Update - Week 4

Growth in this tank is really nice. Once again, I could not perform the mid-week water change as I was really busy at work. I guess I will cancel this one and restart it when the final plants are coming.

First I will show some pictures and then I would like to get some input from you folks about the transition to the final plants.

Here is the tank as of last weekend:

Attached Image:

Last Weekend

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

And this is how the tank looked this weekend before the water change and trimming.

All grown up, the Star Grass was so tall that it was growing along the surface and shaded itself and other lower plants:

Attached Image:

Before Trimming

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The size of this tank allows me to take care of individual Star Grass stems, unlike the huge mass that I have in the 125G.

Here, I go and trim each stem while it is still planted. I cut off any tops that I seem worthy to be replanted, and after all these are done I dispose of the bottoms that are still in the tank. This is also made easier by the fact that I can work on the tank from all sides.

Here is the tank after the trimming:

Attached Image:

After Trimming and Water Change

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Here is a close-up of a Star Grass stem in the evening. This is the only tank where I can see pearling. Oh, BTW, so far my CO2 tube came off the diffuser 3 times, I think I will have to somehow tie it onto it. How would that be done?

Attached Image:

Pearls

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Since about two weeks I see some small amount of hair algae on the uppermost parts of the branches. I am not too worried about that, as long as it doesn't spread to the lower regions (which may be possible when the fast growers come out).

This branch is about 2 inches below the surface, so it is really close to the light:

Attached Image:

Hair Algae on Driftwood

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Now, here is a series of 4 Oto shots. Sorry to bother you with so many of them, but I find Otos to be very pretty fishies, besides the fact that they are currently the only inhabitants of this tank.

I fed them cucumbers only once this week, I think they are finding enough food now in the tank itself and the veggie is more of a treat.

Attached Image:

Oto I

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I think Otos are very graceful fish, and when they swim they look like miniature sharks. They never bother anybody else in the tank and mind their own business. Mine are all over the tank, constantly on the search for food and something to nibble on. In short, just lovely:

Attached Image:

Oto II

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am very glad to report that so far I have not lost even one of the six that I purchased over two weeks ago, although all indicators (small and only one day at the LFS) pointed towards a major die-off.

I don't know if I simply got lucky or if my husbandry skills for this fish have improved, but all that matters to me is that they all are still here.

Attached Image:

Oto III

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Last picture for this update, an Oto sucking on the glass. I have a similar picture of an Oto in this weeks 125G update and I really wish I could show you these two together in comparison (but I can't easily do so). This one is maybe half the size than the one in the big tank. As you can see, he/she seems well fed and a happy camper

Ingo

Attached Image:

Oto IV

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

OK,

On to the anticipated changes for this tank. It is well known that the current plant layout in this tank is only to establish the tank quicker. In the long run, two main groupings on the centers of the driftwood sections are the goal. Here are a few assumptions/questions:

- I will split the planting in half, one side of the tank at one weekend, the other side later. Questions: is one week later too close? And - Would it be too early to start next week (5 weeks after setup)?

- Tetratech mentions in one of Robyn's (Tank Watcher) logs that he was not able to grow Hair Grass successfully (nicely) in even 2.7wpg. I have about 2.25wpg, but a much lower tank with only 16". Question: Will my attempt to plant the open plains between the two driftwood groups fail?

- I am planning on some taller plant in the driftwood groups, maybe not the same species in both. Mostly, these areas will have Anubias Nana (and maybe Petite), but in the middle will be some Narrow Leaf Java Fern. Questions: Should I rather buy new Fern than use the one from the 125G as there is some BBA on it? Even if I would not transplant leaves with BBA, could there be some not yet visible spores on the other leaves? What other plants could you invision as a taller center group in the Anubias/driftwood arrangements?

I guess this is enough to get us started,

Thanks so much for any input,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

LF,

That pic with the hair algae on the DW isn't that just left over moss or is there moss and hair algae?

I would rearrange the tank even more slowly than what you are prescribing. I would slowly take out some stems/group and replace with what you want then fine-tune it as you go along.

Nice oto shots, I really like mine as well, now if I could only find the spotted ones.

My Scapes

Hi Ingo

I'm not experienced enough to help out with your questions, but have to say I always enjoy your pictures. I liked seeing your otos & I was really glad you posted that final pic of the oto on your glass. Your oto has red showing below his little opened "opera singing mouth". I always worried about that redness on mine & I'm glad to see it must be normal, as yours has it too.

You sure had a lot of growth this week. All looks very lush in there.

Cheers
TW

Here is a close-up of a Star Grass stem in the evening. This is the only tank where I can see pearling. Oh, BTW, so far my CO2 tube came off the diffuser 3 times, I think I will have to somehow tie it onto it. How would that be done?

Nice pearling
It's funny that you mentioned the co2 tubing. I had been using regular black tubing. The cheap stuff I think it was Lee's or something and I never had a problem keeping the tubing on the diffusor, then I switched to co2 tubing (green/blue like the stuff you have and I've been having the same problem. Came home from work a couple of time and there it was my co2 bleeding into the corner of my tank one big wasted bubble at a time.

As a temporary fix I have two suction cup holders/clips holding the diffusor in place. One is about an inch down from the where the tubing meets the diffusor and the other is right where the diffusor stem meets the tubing. In other words it is over the tubing that is over the stem of the diffusor. So far it's held for a few days, but I was afraid I might crack the stem.

My Scapes

So about the hair algae. Give it a nice splash of Excel or maybe try a flag fish. We had some at work and they love!!! the hair algea.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

isn't that just left over moss or is there moss and hair algae?

- There never was moss or algae in the tank before, remember - it's Jeff's wood. This took about 2 to 3 weeks to grow that much, overall it is really tiny and not too much of a concern.

Replant: albteit I am not skimpy when it comes to spending money on plants, I don't like to waste money on shipping. If I spread out replanting over various weeks then I risk that the other ordered plants would not do to well while being temporarily housed in the low tech, almost no ferts, low light tanks for too long. As such, I would assume I have to order a few times rather than once. What to do?

Robyn, yup - the red is normal, you basically see the fish's gills and they are red in any fish.

Wings - No flag fish, too big and boring

Ingo

EDIT: tetratech - thanks for the tip on the tubing holder (aka cup). I will give it a try (and I hear you on the worries about breaking the glass tube)

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There never was moss or algae in the tank before,

remember - it's Jeff's wood. This took about 2 to 3 weeks to grow that much, overall it is really tiny and not too much of a concern.

Well you never know where someone's driftwood has been.

Replant: albteit I am not skimpy when it comes to spending money on plants, I don't like to waste money on shipping. If I spread out replanting over various weeks then I risk that the other ordered plants would not do to well while being temporarily housed in the low tech, almost no ferts, low light tanks for too long. As such, I would assume I have to order a few times rather than once. What to do?
I'm sure somewhere in that fishroom of yours you'll be able to accomodate some new plants temporarily.

My Scapes

hello Little Fish

I am just popping into say hi and put this on my active threads list. Tank looks good, my 40G(well35G) is a mess so I am very interested to see yours.

hope you are well!
and be prepared for me to nick all your ideas!

GFGxx

_______________________________________
Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
Harvey S. Firestone

Tetratech,

I will have to think about where what plants could be stored. Hey, any input from your end on the ability of this tank to grow Hair Grass successfully?

GFG,

Always glad to see you pop in . And if you wish to nick all of my ideas, skip the ones that cause algae and use the others at your will. BUT - you will always have to use the reference to my tank when you show off yours and you have to post pictures of both tanks in comparison (just kidding). And - Sorry about England's loss.

Ingo

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Additional Question:

Who knows anything about Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae ???

It is a grass like plant with low height, and supposedly needs high light. Is it an alternative for Eleocharis acicularis?

Anyone knows more about it? Information and/or experience sharing is greatly appreciated,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Don't use the NL Fern from the 125. One you will need it there and two it's simply not enough. Get a lot of it as it will take a long time to fill out if you don't have enough.

I'd use it on both sides. It's a graceful enough plant that you can use it on both mounds without looking like you have too much. Having less on one side looks good.All the great scapers who use it always have it on both sides.

The Novae Zealandae is not a bad choice.It's the easiest of the species. Problem is there
are other Lilaeopsis species that look almost identical that are much more difficult. I've tried one in the best (not sure which species) it just sat there for me didn't die , didn't grow. But this was before I had Co2 or even decent light.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Ingo you've become quite the aquatic plant aficianado (sp?)! It seems like only yesterday you were setting up that 125g for the first time. I take a brief hiatus only to come back and find your humble basement has become a booming fish room! I'm impressed!

This setup in particular looks great. Can't wait to see what will become of it in the coming weeks. It's always a guessing game as to what will work and what won't, esp with plants. You seem to have a taste similar to mind, as I find your setups among the most attractive. Take care and keep in touch!

Hey, any input from your end on the ability of this tank to grow Hair Grass successfully?

In my opinion your rolling the dice. If it doesn't grow well it will get saddled down with gunk and of course get BBA. It did grow but new leaves eventually got BBA in my tank with the 2.7wpg, but it was deeper in the bowfront mostly and I don't think I was running my co2 as high back then. Some say a rich substrate is necessary, which you have with the eco, but of course others will disagree. If it get's good light and high co2 you might have a shot. Here's a pic of my tank 45 days out with the hairgrass foreground.

Attached Image:


My Scapes

Thanks guys for the input
Just a few updates before I fall asleep on my office chair (yes, still at work :

I ordered:

- 10 Nana
- 1 Mother Plant Barteri (just for the fun of it, may add it to the big tank)
- 3 Narrow Leaf Java Ferns
- 1 square foot of Novae Zealandae

Let's see how it all works out, but it for sure means that at least part of the change to the tank is pretty much coming no later than this weekend. Exciting and scary at the same time.

Ingo

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Well, last night when I came home the plants had arrived.

What can I say, I planted them all, it took only 7 hours for the whole operation

I took a few pictures, but I have to download them on the computer first, it was way too late last night to do so and now I have to get ready for work already, still in the crazy phase there (but I hope today is the last day of it, for a while).

All I can say is that once when I was done, I discovered small reddish worms, like tubifex I guess, in the bucket where the Novae Zealandae was parked . I hope that is not going to be a problem in the tank. Also, getting the Novae Zealandae and the mother Barteri out of the "growing sponge", or whatever else this stuff is called, was sure a pain in the neck. I added the Barteri to the tank as well, but I believe it is not staying.

More later,

Your tired Ingo

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So with your last post it sounds like you went 100% LF style and messed with the whole tank?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

you went 100% LF style and messed with the whole tank?

- Well, I can't deny who I am

Yes, I did change everything, except for the substrate and the basic position of the rocks, although they have been elevated a bit to stand out some more.

Right now, I have a load of Wisteria floating in the 20G and even more Hyrgo in the 125G, I didn't have the time to do anything with it, and I didn't want to throw it out either.

Ingo

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Ok,

So here comes the visual change progress in 16 Acts (brace yourself).

After I came home on Thursday, I grabbed the package and began to unpack. The first one to be unloaded was the Barteri mother plant. Unfortunately, 3 small pieces broke off during shipping. That in itself would not have been all that bad, if it wouldn't be for the fact that all 3 are the growing ends of longer rhizomes of the mother. I am not certain if these 3 rhizomes will ever create new shoots, we will see.

Attached Image:

Mother Anubias Barteri

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Next, I unpacked the Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae, Nana, and the Java Fern.

As you can see, the fern is rather small and the Anubias Nana is as expected, with about 5 leaves on each of the 10 plants. The Lilaeopsis came in a matt of one square foot, with roots and what not all being a big solid group.

Attached Image:

Nana, Fern, and Lilaeopsis

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Here is a close-up of the Lilaeopsis matt. As I mentioned a few posts back, after I finished adding all plants to the tank I discovered that small red worms, like tubifex, were in the bucket. I have to assume that I have some of them now in the tank.

Reason to worry? What do you think?

Attached Image:

Lilaeopsis Close-Up

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After the unpacking came the boring and unpleasant task of cleaning the plants. In particular the Mother Barteri was a pain in the neck, all the roots were in this growing sponge stuff. I tried to get off as much as I could, but I am certain that some of it remained on the plant.

Here are the plants after some cleaning, ready for the planting process:

Attached Image:

Post Cleaning

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Then it was time to start messing with the tank, as Wings calls it: 100% LF style .

Before I got started I took one last shot of the tank with the warm-up plants still in place:

Attached Image:

Last Old Picture

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First I removed all the tall plants, the Star Grass was thrown out and the Hygro was placed in a bucket for replant in maybe this tank or another. In the end, there was no space left for it in this tank and it was so late at night that I just added it to the 125G as a floater, and that is where it still is as I am writing this.

Attached Image:

Stems are Removed

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A scary part of this removal process was the thought that an Oto may decide to hide by clinging to a leaf and I would ultimately throw it away, but it didn't happen. Nevertheless, it means that each plant removed had to be carfully observed before being discarded off.

Next, I removed the Wisteria and the only plants left in the tank are the 3 Blyxas.

Attached Image:

All Plants Gone - Except Blyxa

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Then I removed all the wood from the tank. I used this chance to rinse it off a little as it still had some fungus growing on it.

At this stage, finding the Otos was an easy task, with almost nothing left in the tank for them to hide. And I am glad to report that all 6 original Otos are still around.

Attached Image:

Almost Empty Tank

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Next I performed a 30% water change, partially to remove some floating debris from the water column, partially to vacuum some gunk of the substrate. This was important as I had to do some minor rescaping of the substrate, like raising the rocks a little and reshapng the hills. Without the water change I would have made a major mess of the water column.

During all this time, the Otos were eating on any object that was left in the tank, at this stage pretty much only the glass in itself was there.

Attached Image:

Otos Hanging In

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Next, I repositioned the filter intake, heater, diffuser, and spray bar. The spray bar is now horizontally on the right of the tank, I have not been too happy about the enormous lack of surface movement in the old setup.

Then, all wood had been placed in the tank again to get a vision on how it would look. Here I had to really focus as I then went on to remove the entire right group again, but had to keep in mind where I would like to place the plants on the wood. After quite some time, the right group had 10 Nana and the 3 Ferns tied to it:

Attached Image:

Right Hill Replanted

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Here is a close-up that is of better lighting and a slightly different angle. As you may notice, not all Nanas are tied to the wood, some are tied to a rock in front of it.

The Fern isn't tied too high on the rocks as I expect it to grow higher by itself.

Attached Image:

Right Group Close Up

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Then I had to make a decision.

Obviously, I ran out of Nanas to plant and the left group contains a large area of wood in its center that eliminated the option to plant anything in the substrate there. So, I decided to, at least for now, add that mother Barteri to that section.

What do you think?

Attached Image:

Left Group With Mother Barteri

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In the meantime, the Otos were happy that the wood was back in and insantly started to munch away on it. Occasionally they still came to the glass though and gave me a chance to count them, as I was still worried that I may have squeezed them under some added wood.

Attached Image:

Otos Hanging In

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The tank at this stage actually does not look all that bad, maybe I should have just kept it that way. The problem would have been the rather small plant mass, with lots of light and CO2, and that would have been asking for trouble.

So, on I went to plant the Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae, WHAT A PAIN

I had to divide the matt into smaller chunks, and then take these chunks into even smaller plugs that can be planted. Overall, I would estimate that I created anywhere between 70 and 100 of these plugs, although it felt like I made about 1000. It took forever. Planting these plugs though was not all that hard, thanks to the ease with which Eco lets you add plants.

After that planting the tank was complete:

Attached Image:

All Panted

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Here is a closer look at the center area of the tank with the Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae and the 3 remaining Blyxa in place. It is a very nice plant, altough I have to confess that I know little about its growth pattern, speed, and anything for that matter. Any info is welcome:

Attached Image:

Center Area of Tank

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And last but not least, another full tank shot from last evening, about 19 hours after the setup was completed.

I seem to identify that the Lilaeopsis novae-zelandiae leaves have uprighted themselves to some degree, at least in the picture they seem a little more pointed upwards than in the previous shot.

And that is that, all done for now.

What do you think? Any input? Anything you can see that I messed up? Anything?

Have fun,

Ingo

Attached Image:

One Day Later

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I'm thinking.......

My Scapes

Ingo,

I like the way the tank looks now but you now have me throughly confused.

I though that the point of starting the tank out full of fast growers, was because they grow quickly and get established quickly creating a large plant biomass to out compete the algae spores that are always present in air and water.

Ok, jump to this week when you take out all the fast growers and replace them with some slower growing plants.

This is what confuses me. What was the point of the stem plants?

At this point you have basically done a reset of the tank. The algae spores are still present, but instead of a large fast growing established biomass, you have a smaller, non established slow growing biomass. What is stopping the algae from getting establishing now?

My thought would be to remove a section of the stems and plant some of the Anubuias and the Lilaeopsis. Then a couple weeks later do some more, etc. This way you never have a situation where you have no established plants.

Anyway I not trying to be critical, just trying to learn. It does look very nice.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Anyway I not trying to be critical, just trying to learn.

Hey Rick, I hear you - I am trying to learn myself.

Initially, the idea was to remove only part of the fast growers and plant that section with new, more permanent plants. Over the course of a few weeks or a month or two, the whole tank would have been changed.

That would have been ideally what I wanted to do, but there were some logistical problems:

- If I order all plants at once, what do I do with the remaing plants? My other tanks can only house an additional plant load if I a) either replant each tank to accomondate for the extra load or b) have them float in there and risk a die-off from the shading over weeks.

- If I order them over weeks on a buy-what-you-need-now basis, then a) can I be guaranteed that the plants are available when needed, b) do they sell small masses of the individual plants (no problem on the Anubias, but a no-no on the Lilaeopsis, which comes as half this size as the minimum quantity), and c) I would have to pay a fortune in shipping for small packages that have to be overnighted.

- The addition of the fast growers was not for nothing, at least not in my opinion (and I may be wrong). Water from the tab has nothing to do with tank water in an established tank, loads of natural goodies, like beneficial bacteria etc., are missing, and the tank's filter is "clean". Riding the tank in with fast growers creates a plant friendly environment that will help to keep algae at bay. I hope to have converted the tank into such an environment where new plants still will have an advantage over algae. Plus, the fact that I have the light on for only 8.5 hours per day should help as well.

- As Wings put it nicely, I did a replant LF Style, just check all my other logs if you don't know what that means. For better or worse, most likely worse, my way of doing these things is by removing pretty much all content from the tank and then start to replant. I simply seem to be incapable to remove only parts and not influence the other parts. For me, it is all a chain reaction, a move on one subject causes another having to change, and so forth. I hope this explanation makes sense to you.

Thanks for the comment on the current look

Ingo

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Looks really nice Ingo.

Everything looks nice and I like the Lilaeopsis & will have to look it up. Knowing my luck, though, it needs high light I bet.

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn,

Yeah, I think the Lilaeopsis needs hight light to thrive, although I have to confess that I did one of these "oh - how pretty, I need to have it and will research the details later" kind of purchases. Ususally, that style comes back to haunt you later

Rick - one more thing: I think that I have a rather large plant mass in there right now, with this plant being so dense and all parts exposed to the light (rather than the shaded bottoms of the Star Grass that always wither away, or the rather bare stems of the Hygro that carry only a few leaves each).

Ingo

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My first reaction is "Sod"
You certainly have an instant lawn and in itself the tank looks nice, but I'm alittle confused about what your trying to accomplish.

Weren't you trying to do two mounds with rock work, etc. The microswords although a foreground plant are very tall and is hiding any kind of hardscape that the plants play off of. The blyxa is really wasted in that spot since it's color and shape is very similiar to the microsword.
Are you planing to reduce the microsword population or do you want a full lawn? I thought you were doing a beachfront in this tank or was that another tank in your "Fishroom"

Don't get me wrong the tank is pleasing to the eye, but I'm not sure what the goal is?



My Scapes

I'm not sure that I like how the lilaeopsis is basically all one level and flat across the tank. It doesn't do much for creating depth, it looks especially flat knowing that this is such a deep tank front to back. I say you either need to do more with the gravel to produce depth or find some taller grasses to mix in with the one you have now.

That said, I do like the plant choices, and you probably already have a plan for creating some interest in the grassy area that I don't know about. It does look nice for doing a 100% change in one day, and will continue to look better, I'm sure.

The barteri will form new shoots from any cutting. I've chopped a nana into about 6 peices before and watched all of them sprout in new directions. It actually seems to encourage branching, like in stem plants.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

Gee,

Everyone is a critic

Folks, I worked my lower back off to get this together and you tell me its just another failure?

Ok - the entries by tetratech and Matty:

The beachfront idea was pretty much scrapped when Bensaf mentioned that black substrate doesn't lean itself to a distinct beach appearance and I was unwilling to add another lighter substrate.

I am aware that the Blyxa doesn't stick out, but maybe it will when it grows taller (although color is pretty much the same but may turn more reddish, I hope).

The rocks were never intended to be a focal point of the hardscape, their main purpose is to keep the hills together. And I agree, one cannot see much of hills anymore anyway, that was a design/planning flaw. The hardscape focus is the wood, and unfortunately that doesn't come out in the pictures that well. I am plannning to add a white background that is removable to add just for the pictures so you get a better idea on how the tank looks like when you actually stand in front of it.

Overall, I gave up on the idea on having a detailed vision before I redo one of my tanks and then follow through with that vision at any cost. I rather prefer right now to have some idea and then go with the flow, creating what comes natural during that process. Why - because I am not experienced enough to lay out a clear and suitable vision that actually resembles an implementation without having it in front of me.

Yes, one of the visions was to add some taller plants spread out on the plain to create some highlights, but they are secondary implementations not important for the mass of plants. I may add some red Wendtii or other accent plant much later in the progress, we will see. Crypts or such plants seemed at this time to only have increased the slow growing group and to cause a decrease in water quality because of the almost given melting.

I chopped my Nanas and Barteris in the large tank as well, although only into two pieces each. Thanks for the thums up on the regrowth.

And overall - the goal is to enjoy the ride . So far, all of my tanks have seen overhauls and I srongly believe that I will never be finished with any of them. As I said, I can see that the Barteri Mother will have to go again, then I can mess with that wood area some more. Assuming I plant similar plants than on the other wood group, I will need about 15 to 20 more Anubias to do so.

So, now I would like to hear some more positive feedback, if you don't mind

Ingo

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Hey I made sure to throw some positives into my post, I don't even like being critical of other people's work, especially when it looks pretty good. I like the anubias on the wood, you were going to change this? or were you going to just add more anubias? I do think some color would be nice, we get "bronze" wendtii at the store, and it seems to stay more compact than the red does. That was the plant in the front left of my old tank. I always like that one and wished I had made a better place for it.

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Critical Fertilator: The Micromanager of Macronutrients

The beachfront idea was pretty much scrapped when Bensaf mentioned that black substrate doesn't lean itself to a distinct beach appearance and I was unwilling to add another lighter substrate.


I really don't buy that and I must disagree with my master about the darkside
There are some pretty distinictive beachfronts in nature. Let's see Hawaii and Tahiti come to mind.

It's really about contrast. If the rocks separating the plants from the substrate have a good constrast it really doesn't matter whether the sand is white, black or Bermuda pink.

Why not have a few rocks sticking out of your microsword field and plant the Blyxa in-between them. You need some areas of constrast and depth.



My Scapes

Hey, I really don't mind critics, they are what keeps us going. I think it would be more of a concern if a tank is changes and all that comes back is "looks nice".

Well, I didn't think about far away beaches when looking at a black beachfront, I looked at tetratech's tank . Although it didn't look bad at all, it didn't stick our either. Also, keep in mind that in order to have a beach I probably should have made it all around, with being a tank in the open from all sides.

Matty - The Barteri on the left is simply too big and starts to high up. You should see it from the other side of the tank (will post a picture maybe tomorrow), you can see the huge root mass elevated above the grass plant, it is almost ugly. Also, given good ferts, CO2, and light,the stems of the Barteri will grow so long that the plant will push out of the water. I think I will have to remove it.

tetratech - good idea on the rocks sticking out, I still have some of them available. First though I will try to get this load established before breaking it up again.

Ingo

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BTW - When Bensaf mentioned the black sand beach wasn't distintive did you confirm he was sober

As far as the beach to each his own. I have both white an black sand beaches and they both work IMHO. The 72g has riccia and petrified wood that both constrast nicely with the eco and the 12g has javamoss meeting the white sand which again is a nice constrast.



My Scapes

The 72g has riccia and petrified wood that both constrast nicely with the eco and the 12g has javamoss meeting the white sand which again is a nice constrast.

Exactly tetratech - and I have neither nor. I envisioned your 72G and deducted the beautiful border to the beach. Which is what my tank would not have, a border, otherwise there would not really have been any space left, considering the all around beach. Border would have met border from the other side with maybe a small strip of "land" in between. That is why the black in itself would not have been such a great idea for me. You know what I mean?

I didn't check if he was sober, and I don't know in what state of mind he has his best ideas either

Ingo

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I see pretty good constrast with your rocks and the eco. If those were bordering the islands separating the eco fromt the plants with a center area of all eco it would be fine in my hubble opinion.



Attached Image:

Good Contrast

My Scapes

Ok,

So - with the old saying pictures are better than words, here are a few (12) details of the tank.

First off the more ugly side of the Mother Barteri, with loads of roots really visible in the tank. That part is hard to cover up, attempts to do so seemed forced:

Attached Image:

Barteri Roots

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Next up,

A detail of one of the Ferns attached to the driftwood. As you can see, they are still small. I hope that when they grow they will give the right group some additional height.

Attached Image:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern I

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Here is another Fern shot, from a differnt group. You can even see the black thread with which the fern is attached to the Wood.

The little white spots are there because I just added some Equilibrium to the tank.

Attached Image:

Narrow Leaf Java Fern II

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Tetratech - you referred to the rocks. Well - they are still there, and some of them are quite visible in the tank.

If I am not mistaken then this is exactly the one you were showing. No plants in front of it, still in the open.

Attached Image:

Rocks I

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All rocks have been elevated a little to stick out some more than before. Here is another unhidden one, shot from the left end of the tank.

I agree that this one may dissapear over time, but I can always remove some plant mass to re-show it.

Attached Image:

Rocks II

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All good things come in 3

So here is the rock group that is visible from the backside of the tank, just below the Barteri.

Oh, BTW, the wood that the Barteri sits on forms a wondeful cave below it, you may be able to see that in the picture. I am thinking Apistos

Attached Image:

Rocks III

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Here is a shot from the right side of the tank, the one where all the equipment is coming in. I have the wood sticking out almost to the glass. This will serve as a natural divider for the grassy plant as well and give it some variety.

Attached Image:

Right Side

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And here it is from the left side. Nothing special to see here, maybe even a bit boring.

Attached Image:

Left Side

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An added bonus of this order was that the Micro Swords were covered in Duck Weed, the plant that I managed to kill (or have all eaten up) in the 125G. I will transfer some of it over there tomorrow to start a new culture.

Attached Image:

Duck Weed

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