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Subscribe72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
tetratech
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This that would be very nice Nowher.

BTW- I planted all my new plants, I'll try to post pic tonite. I'm having a hard time getting used to the variety, but we'll see what I keep and what I don't.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Interesting color change.

Is that the smaller one? Looks like a female belly marking there (or my imagination is running wild).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Nope that's the big one.
This guy was a $5 fish from Petco about 18 months ago.


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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O.K Here's the new layout



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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New Layout with Labels



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

So far, the new plants look good. It is going to be interesting to see how they look once they have grown in. Most of the time I see the Stellata and the Diandra used as streets while you seem to use them as bushes. I wonder if you have to cut the front ones rather often to maintain the picture of a full group rather then having long stems visible. Time will tell .

I also like that we finally get to see your tank with some light on it .

Ingo


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tetratech
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Thanks LF,
As I said I'm more into an overall dramatic look than growing different plants, so I might not even keep all these in. I also have alot of plants that have reddish and purple hues and it will be interesting to see how well they color up with the UV running. I might start putting it on a timer to run only at night.

BTW - Looks like after I started my cardinal addition back on Nov. 10th I hav ended up with 10 solid ones out of 21.
I'll probably add one more batch and see if the UV keeps the infections away that they seem to get during the first week of acclimation.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Adding more Cardinals sounds like a good idea, if you made up your mind that they are the ones of which you would like to have a BIG school.

And serves as a nice Xmas present to yourself as well .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Rams have spawned! This explains all the color changes, etc.

Pics and details to follow

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Uh

tetratech is a father yet again

How exciting, what now? Large school of Rams?

Ingo


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tetratech
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Eggs have been located on a piece of petrified wood all the way in the back. The smaller ram is guarding the nest. I already saw small agression for the first ime when the annoying pencilfish got close. I'm playing catch up now and trying to read up on them. I know they take turns guarding the nest so I'm still not sure which is the boy/girl. I've read there sometimes not the best of parents, but they are suppose to grab fry in their mouth when they stray to far.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Congrats tetra

They may eat this batch though... after a few more they should get the hang of it. The parenting, that is.

If you do raise these up, you may want to consider selling one or two to your old pal NowherMan6, maybe?


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Nowher, if I do raise some a few have your name on it. I just read that the fry ar sensitive to nitrate, so that could pose a problem right there. They usually hatch in 3 days. If that happens I guess I will try and scope out a few and put them in an empty 5gallon I have or I guess I could hang a breeder tank on the 72.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Putting them up in the spare 5g sounds good. Wouldn't want that hanging breeder tank to ruin the polished look of your tank

It must be nice to actually be able to see where and when your cichlids bred. When my Brevis breed the only way I know is when I see 10 more fry wriggling along the sand...


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Wouldn't want that hanging breeder tank to ruin the polished look of your tank
This is true, especially since I just got my new plants. Did you notice pic a few posts up.

Anyway, I don't know exactly when they spawned but the choice a small piece of petrified wood all the way in the back that is partially covered by wisteria, but I could see the eggs. Gonna try to get a pic, might be tough. I could remove the entire rock and put it in the 5g. I was reading about how aquarists artifically raise them, but one I don't really want a 100 fry, two it will probably freak out the rams and might cause stress. I understand they could breed every few weeks.

Last edited by tetratech at 23-Dec-2005 09:37

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tetratech
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Here's a shot of the eggs taken from above the tank.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Yes I did see the pics up top. In my opinion it already gives the tank a bit more dynamic, contrasting leaf shapes to the bottom which is dominated by wisteria. I'm not sure what LF means by it's normally used for "streets", but it will be interesting to see how it grows in.

And re the rams - if they're anything like brevis, they may be cycle spawners - they may spawn every two weeks or so, then stop for a month or so, then pick up the cycle again.

EDIT: Wow! That's actually a very clean shot. Well done... yep, that's a proud parent keeping watch there.

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 23-Dec-2005 09:47


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tetratech
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Thanks Nowher, I guess the smaller one is the female, because she on the eggs most of the time and the other one is in the area, pushing fish away. Even if some do survive and I scoop them out, do you know if it's a must to feed them new hatched brine shrimp.

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NowherMan6
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Even if some do survive and I scoop them out, do you know if it's a must to feed them new hatched brine shrimp.


I don't know about it being a must. I've been feeding my fry frozen abby brine shrimp/ brine sheimp eggs. They also go for finely crushed flake that falls to the bottom. When they get a little bigger I notice they go after sinking New Life Spectrum small cichlid pellets, which is always funny because the pellets are about the size of their heads Never got them to grow any bigger than that, because at that point they get big enough that they're not as quick and unintrusive as they used to be, and the parents eat them Then a new batch comes along. Ah, the circle of life.

Anyway, you could also try putting a patch of java moss down near the eggs. That will help cultivate some little bits of algae and what not that the fry will use to feed themselves. They're surprisingly good at feeding themselves once free swimming.


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the fry advice. I guess I'll have my 5aga (future nano) ready for the fry if it gets that far. If the fry are sensitive to no3 I don't know if any will make it anyway.

I'm not sure what LF means by it's normally used for "streets", but it will be interesting to see how it grows in. He's referring to scaping a plant from back/mid to the front of the tank so it looks like a "street" between plants. This is popular in dutch tanks which my tank definitely is not. I've actually seen the plant in question used many ways. Look I'm using wisteria as ground cover.

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LITTLE_FISH
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"Streets"

Are you talking about me?

Yeah, I know your reputation as wisteria tamer, that's why I say it will be interesting to see how these turn out.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yeah who else.

It's been an interesting week:

1. New plants
2. New eggs
3. Bigger shrimp

Let me explain number 3. I found what I thought was a dead shrimp, but it was simply the old skin after the yamato shrimp molted. I have 2 yamatos and one is huge. These guys stay 24/7 in that piece of tall DW in the middle of my tank. I think they are feeding off of the javamoss. I might add a bunch more. LF, you might want to consider a crew as well. Maybe they will help with the thread algae.




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LITTLE_FISH
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You know,

just the other day I was looking at shrimp and there are a few kinds that I liked, like Amano shrimp and Red Cherry shrimp etc.

I am just thinking that I might hold off with them until I finally know where what plant in my tank will end up. I am too worried that I might kill them by mistake during my replanting events.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I guess that could happen. The cherry shrimp definitely show up better. The Amano/Yamato are almost invisible on driftwood,etc. The ghost are almost completely invisible.
I don't see that many cherries around me and when I do they are expensive. I pay about $3 each for the Amano.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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New colorful plants, big shrimp and 100 little eggs what more could one want for the holidays.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS to all! Be safe and enjoy

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LITTLE_FISH
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HAPPY HOLIDAYS to you too, tetratech.

Hope you still can make time though to keep us posted on the egg situation.

Ingo


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tetratech
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I'll be around LF. I'll have to decide if I want to intervene if I do see baby rams swimming around. I might try and pull a few out and put them in the 5g I mentioned.
I read an article of aquarists artifically raising the fry by putting the eggs in a small tank with an airstone and a heater and then raising them that way, but that would require me removing the rock they are on. Don't think I'm going to do that.

Happy Holidays - LittleFish!


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dvmchrissy
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[font color="#C00000"]Well, if you do happen to save some then please save me a mated pair if possible! lol I have been looking for bolivians everywhere and I cannot find any near me at all! It really stinks because I want a pair for my 55 SO bad! Yours are so pretty I would LOVE to have a pair from yours! [/font]

[font color="#C00000"]Happy [/font] [font color="#008000"] Holiday [/font] [font color="#C00000"] Everyone!!![/font]
[font color="#008000"]Have fun tomorrow, and make sure to stuff yourelves to the fullest extent! [/font]


[font color="#000080"]Christina[/font]


Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Just popping in to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas. Hope you all have a good one.

Living in Indonesia, I don't have any holidays as it falls on a Sunday this year. I'll probably spend tomorrow trying to finding somewhere that has a good Turkey dinner on offer.Hmmmmmmm......roast spuds I miss me spuds

Enjoy yourselves.

Congrats on the fry tetra Green water is great fry food btw , maybe you can borrow a cupful from nowhere


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Same to you Bensaf, a Merry Christmas for you and family.

maybe you can borrow a cupful from nowhere
That or pull the plug on my UV

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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O.K. Eggs were moved to a borrow and have hatched in the substrate. Fry are not free swimming yet, but remain in borrow as the male stays over them.

The male is under a leaf of the Didiplis diandre.





tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 27-Dec-2005 11:02
[/font]

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LITTLE_FISH
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That is fantastic tetratech,

It seems like there are quite a few of them in the circle. Are the other fish showing interest in the little wigglers?

Ingo


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tetratech
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Instinct is an amazing thing. The borrow is down low between a piece of driftwood and a rock where there was no wisteria. So the ram is down there and the fish are passing right over it. Once the babies become free swimming that's when the other fish are going to go crazy.

Here's the location of the borrow. Th ram actually uprooted some of the Didiplis diandre and threw eco on the wisteria.





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LITTLE_FISH
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Nice,

Are you interested in removing the fry to a net breeder or something like that?

Ingo


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tetratech
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I'm going to attempt to remove some of them to either a breeder net or the spare 5g I have. I've also heard that the fry do not do well with high no3 levels, so if that's true none might survive. I think in this case my no3 at 20ppm would be high to non-planted tank aquarists.

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tetratech
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Some new pics. Close up of the rotala and Didiplis diandre which is growing nicely. In the front you could see some of the the Blyxa which is also taking root.



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tetratech
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Closeup of the Stargrass that has made a comeback after cutting it way back.



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tetratech
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Full shot from right front.



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Wingsdlc
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I leave to go home for a week and boy do I miss a lot! Your tank looks very nice like this and congrates on the rams doing their thing. I started looking for some rams over my break and I had to hold my self back from buying them. I have to pay the rent first.


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LITTLE_FISH
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Looking nice tetratech,

But, now I am wondering if the leaf structure of Didiplis Diandra, Star Grass, and Rotala Indica is too similar and the plants blend too much into each other.

There should be some color differences between them though, but I cannot really tell from the pictures.

The Blixa looks very nice; It will be interesting to see how it grows. If I remember that right then it can reach a medium height which would fit that area just nicely.

Ingo


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tetratech
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But, now I am wondering if the leaf structure of Didiplis Diandra, Star Grass, and Rotala Indica is too similar and the plants blend too much into each other.
Had a feeling you might say that. I guess we know each other very well.

Actually what you can't see is that the Stella wideleaf is between the Didiplis and the Rotala. Also what's good about DW is that it breaks up to plants that are similiar in structure. So far the diandra is coming in very green and the rotala has a pinkish hue. When I bought these plants I think I stated that I might not even keep them all in the tank, since I prefer the natural drama to a tank as opposed to growing a large variety.

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LITTLE_FISH
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I guess we know each other very well


I guess that is what over 1500 back and forth posts will do for you

And yes, you stated that you might not want to keep them. Same here, I already eliminated quite a few plants from my original plant purchase. It is always easier to see how something looks in your tank if you actually have it in there rather than having to imagine it.

Ingo


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tetratech
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Not sure about this E. Stellata Broad Leaf. The main stem was bent over when I received it and it never straightened up. So now it has sort of a gooseneck shape with new growth coming out of the top. The new growth is light green so I guess it colors up as it matures. (Assuming it get's enough FE).

Here's a pic. I've duplicated the stem shape with the with line. The actual stem is right above it, but it might be hard to see. The Blyxa is in the foreground and so far is my favorite plant out of the three I ordered. You could see the Diandra to the right behind the driftwood.

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tetratech
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Here's a better pic of the E. Stellata Broad Leaf the red circle shows where it's planted the white cycle shows where the top of the stem is going back up to the light. As I said it has a gooseneck shape now.



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tetratech
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Here's a good pic showing some of the constrast in the tank now between different leaf shapes and hardscape.

LF, from this pic the Diandra and the Rotala do look similiar but the don't look as similiar in the tank and the E. Stellata is separating them. Everything is looking good and there isn't any algae on any of the plants. The only place I do see BBA is on the DW and rocks.





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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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but the don't look as similiar in the tank


Yeah yeah yeah



The goose neck looks actually good as well.

How does Blixa propagate? By runners? It would look nice if there would be a whole group of them in front of the rock formation, don't you think?

I am glad you only have algae issues on the rock and wood, I wonder why that is. What does a rock have that a plant leaf (that is already grown out) doesn't? Very intriguing!

Ingo


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tetratech
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Wing,
Thanks for the comments. Right now I could see the wigglers as they move around in the "nest". The bolivians are really great fish, especially from a personally standpoint. The pencilfish look like little sharks waiting to pounce so I don't know how many of the fry I'll be able to pull out.

LF,
The blyxa sends out short sideshoots that you could use for new plants. They supposely will grow short and full if all their conditions are met(light, ferts, etc.) It likes po4 in the 1-2ppm range and will have reddish hues and grow white flowers. So if this is true could be a good indicator plant for my fert levels)

Last edited by tetratech at 28-Dec-2005 17:49

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tetratech
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Some more pics. Closeup of the main grouping:



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Shot of some of the hairgrass I decided to keep as a small patch of grass. I kinda threw an extra piece of blyxa in the middle of it. Probably will move it.



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The two yamato shrimp live in the tall piece of dw in the middle. It's a rarity that they venture off it. Here's a pic with one of the shrimps on top. The little white lines on the pic are little bubbles coming off the spraybar.



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Here's a full tank pic taken tonite. As you could see everythings growing even the rotala and stargrass have made a return. I have to tell ya I think Bensaf was right about low no3, Since I doubled my doses the fullness has returned to the stargrass and the wisteria is so soft and billowy you would not believe it. If I cut it I literally have a new fully developed leaf in 2 days. But remember none of this growth is possible without the co2 being up.


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I have to tell ya I think Bensaf was right about low no3


Ah,music to my ears now let's all say it together -
I have to tell ya I think Bensaf was right about low no3
.
Now, didn't that feel good ?

Seriously though, I've never seen the point of trying to run lean on No3 (or anything else for that matter). Running out even for a short period can cause issues that can be more tricky to recover from then simply adding more Nitrate. The more wimpy plants will stunt and have a hard time recovering.Algae has an immediate advantage and as we all know it takes a lot longer to get rid of then it took to show up.

Good nitrate levels on the other hand do produce full healthy plants. Nitrogen is one of the moveable nutrients. Meaning if it's low the plant will move from older parts to the newer growth. This leads to leaf loss and raggedy bottoms and not so healthy tops. Losing bottom leaves quickly can be a good indicator for your NO3 levels. The plant is expending energy moving N around, energy that could be used in growing.

Obviously if the plant has sufficient N it doesn't need to move it around and you have healthier fuller plants with all it's leaves intact.I've got Ammania Gracillis, which likes a lot of light, way over 18" tall that doesn't lose a single leaf even the ones way down the bottom in the densest part of the bunch.

You can immediately tell a plant that is in prime condition. As tetra mentioned there's a visible differnce in appearance that's hard to quantify. I like to call it "juiciness", that just lusher fuller, like they're full of goodness, you want to pull them up and eat 'em in a salad.

This is what you want to aim for. The plants need time to look this way. In other words stability, having that full lush look is the result of good levels on a consistent and stable basis. Guarantee as your plants fill out and get closer to the light this will only improve.

This is what you need to look for. Forget algae. Pearling can be mis-leading. Watch the plants. Full "juicy" plants that aren't shedding unreasonable amounts of leaves and you will have no problems.




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All Together:

I have to tell ya I think Bensaf was right about low no3.


Ok, I said it too . Nevertheless I am still experimenting with how much is good excess vs. too much excess. And I want to point out yet again that EI does not say 20ppm is the level to strive for. It is, by normal fertilization and minimum to no uptake, the maximum that should accumulate if one performs a weekly 50% water change. I will create an entry in my log stating my current “adjustment” attempt.

Tetratech – your latest full shot looks very nice. What brand are the filter intake and output again? Is the size of them an easy fitting for the filter?

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you want to pull them up and eat 'em in a salad
That's funny, because many times I have looked at my Wisteria and said it looks good enough to eat.

Ah,music to my ears now let's all say it together -
Glad you enjoyed the concert.

What brand are the filter intake and output again
The output is the eheim, but it's a basic spraybar positioned horizontial and attached to the left side glass, so you really don't see it.

The intake is a marineland magnum that was too big to fit into the 1/2 eheim ecco tubing so I had to retrofit with some lawn sprinkler connectors at home depot. The strainer I'm using is also marineland, but I'm using my old one from my 12gallon eclipse setup (It was bigger than the one that came with the magnum tubing and I was able to fit my airstone inside it for the co2) which as you know is open-top so I couldn't use the eclipse all in one setup anymore.



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I could clearly see the baby rams wiggling around. Looks like they are only a day or two away from being free swimming buffet. I think I'm going to set up my 5g and try to hose them right into it. Tough to get a good pic, cause I'm taking this from above the tank looking down. They are in a borrow below the normal substrate level.



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Just in case you didn't know, or forgot:

A Turkey Baster is a good fry sucker (don't tell the wife that you used it though ).

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I was considering that thanks. The bigger issue for me is what to feed them. They need baby brine ship or microworms.


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Does the LFS have any of these frozen?

This is where Green Water would come in really handy, maybe NowherMan can ship you some .

You could try finely crushed flakes. Do you know about the trick of putting the flakes in a ziplock bag and grinding them between your fingers? It might just work, if nothing else is available.

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I was going to try te crushed flake, might work I'm reading that the live stuff is a must, but who knows. The water has to also be changed daily, high temp, etc. I really just want to remove a dozen or so and see what happens. Right now the fry are hovering over the borrow.

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This is where Green Water would come in really handy, maybe NowherMan can ship you some



Just popped in to say, quiet you! ]:|

Bensaf, LF, tetra, enjoy your lush juicy salads. I'll be off enjoying hopefully the last of my pea soup


p.s. tetra, I understand your concern with feeding the fry, but I've seen - in the past and now - and even read that fry of all types are much better at feeding themselves than some would give them credit for. They'll peck at rocks and plant leaves, eating things we have no idea are there. The biggest issue is preventing them from ebing eaten by those pencils...


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NowherMan6,



Well, I can vouche for never having fed my Espei specifically. While initially the diatoms were probably their food source I still get new ones now although no diatons are visible to the eye anymore. I agree that they must eat some tiny things in the soup we call tank water.

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But I got the UV, my water is sterile. OH NOOOOOOOOOO!

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They'll peck at rocks and plant leaves, eating things we have no idea are there
Yes, I do agree, especially in a heavily planted tank where there are more things to peck at and more places to hide. If I let nature take it's course maybe I'll end up with a few. When people setup breeder tanks, fry tanks, bascially hand feed they are looking to keep the majority of the fry alive. So letting them find their own food might be the difference between 5 making it and 50 making it. I'm not really equipped right now to deal with 50 to 100 fry anyway, but I'll probably suck out a few into the 5 and see how it goes. I'll add some plant clippings and javamoss covered rocks. There's always alot of goodies in javamoss.

BTW - Nowher you said last of the pea soup. did you order the UV?

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At closer look the fry are free swimming. They are moving all around the mother ram in the general area of the burrow. The ram has been on top of the borrow for about 4 days now. I haven't seen it leave to eat. I guess my original ram was a female, becuase the other ram has not been near the borrow for days. This ram is actually a really good parent. Fanning and protecting the fry, I'm alittle concerned because I don't think the ram hasn't eaten much for many days.

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Nowher you said last of the pea soup. did you order the UV


Not ordered, went out and bought one, and it's just been hooked up I'm going to post details in my log, but right now the set-up is temporary, because there's more tubing and equipment in/ around the tank than I'd like.


Re: the rams. I see what you're saying about not wanting to raise them all. That's the way I feel about the brevis fry. I feed them, and if they grow up, they grow up, if they get eaten, they get eaten. The parents may very well turn on them once they get a little bigger, they'll know when it's time for those fry to be off. I'm sure this wont be the only time your rams breed


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Glad you got the UV. You probably won't see much improvement the first few days, but after that it gets good.

I came home just before to some very fat and jolly cardinals, looks like they sampled the buffet first. I took gravel wash and sucked about a dozen babies directly into the 5 gallon. I'll put some micro pellets and crushed flake food and also put in some javamoss and a few BBA covered rocks.



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Here's a first pic of the fry setup. It's backed against the side of my 72g. I wanted an open-top nano but this wasn't the exact idea I had. Not only is it a nano but so are the fish.




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A first pic of the fry. Tough to get a good one, but here are some.


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Boy oh Boy,

I guess I need glasses .

Glad you circled the spots, I would not have seen anything.

But whatever you did circle seems rather large, I guess finely crushed flakes might work then.

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I passed a petsmart today and I bought Hikari First Bites.
It's tiny tiny pellets that sink slowly. Probably just a marketing thing and the crushed flakes are probably just as good, but I bought them anyway as well as some brine shrimp mix. They also had a liquid fry food made by Wardley's but that one I passed on. It's really interesting to watch the ram with the fry. Every once in a while the fry in the 72g venture above the wisteria they attract the attention of the other fish and when the other fish come close the ram comes well ramming out and pushes the fish away. So far I have about 12 in the 5 and I plan on putting another 10 or so in.

EDIT: Very impressed with Hikari First Bites. It looks like little daphina when it sink into the water. The fry went for it immediately.





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Isn't breeding fish fun

I also have Hikari First Bites for my first batch of platy fry. I gave it to them and I believe to remember that they were better at eating finely crushed flakes. But hey, if they eat it - feed it .

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I'm alittle concerned because I don't think the ram hasn't eaten much for many days.


Don't worry about it. You'd be amazed at how many weeks a fish can go without food. She'll eat when she's ready.


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Congrats Tetra! I went away for a week and you had babies! Well at least the rams did. Very nice, glad you decided to raise some. Will you keep them or sell them? Some fish stores would buy them as they seem to be hard to find. There's only one place I found them here. The tank is looking very good.

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Thanks luvmykrib

Well I'll see how the babies do. I really don't have a grow out tank for them right now, unless I put them back in the 72 when they're big enough.

I find bolivians pretty easy to find in my area, but they are pricey at about $10 - $12 a piece. The one that had the babies was a petco special at $5.


Bensaf,
Good to know. The mom has abandoned the burrow and is moving around the back of the plants with the fry. I guess I won't have to feed any of my fish for a while.


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Check out the Stargrass. It's growing well again. But for how long (talk about being alittle off) Stargrass is a headcase. The circles are areas on the hardscape that have BBA. Nothing on the plants just the rocks and wood.



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tetratech,

The Star Grass is truly looking very nice again.

I have added a few small stems to my big tank a while ago when I redid the 20G. They have grown into a nice little group themselves that is on the right front corner of the tank. I think it would look nice if I replaced some sections of the Dwarf Sags with them, but your experience surely makes me hesitant to try it out. Last thing I need is a dying plant that leaves a gaping hole in the scape.

Anyways, here it is:

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Yes, your looks full as well, very similar to mine. (I don't see any algae)

Here's a compare shut from about a week ago when I first replanted the tank. You could see good growth with the Diandra and the rotala. The Blyxa also got much fuller. The E.Stella which actually looks smaller in the second pic because one of the stalks melted. Not sure why it looked the same as the other. Also many of teh original leaves came off, which is probably normal for a broadleaf plant.



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Yup,

All the growth you listed above is clearly visible.

But what happened to the driftwood on the left? It looks like it came lose from the main group?

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You have a very good eye. Yes I took that piece out and scrubed it to get some of the BBA off it. I know it's not going to cure it, but I cleaned it up and put it in facing the other way. I'm going to move it back.

Almost forget about this pic. You could see the diandra behind it.



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First tank photo of the new year. All plants are growing great.



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I also got a nice late holiday gift when my wife surprised me with these. I guess she accepts my addiction. She searched for these all on her own.





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Very Nice Tetratech

I in particular like your tools, maybe one day I post a picture of mine. I still trim my plants with nail scissors though .

Somehow these kind of tools make aquascaping feel like surgery .

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Fry Update

This morning was the first time I saw the female ram out n the front again. She had been in the back for about 6 days guarding the fry, so I fear they might all have been eaten. There' just too many tetras in the tank, especially the pencils that seem to go through the plants looking for things.

Out of the 10 or so fry that I removed about 5 days ago from the main tank, 4 are still alive. I think the others either died from lack of nutrients or from a water change that I did that might have been too much for them. I didn't feed BBS, but have been using Hikari First Bites.




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Sorry to hear that you lost most of your fry

If it is of any condolence I only can say that you are probably going to have this kind of fry event from now on rather often as batch after batch may be laid by the Rams. Eventually you will have more Rams .

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Yes, I've heard every 4 weeks or so. I could definitely see the appeal of setting up a breeding tank, because it is amazing to see the fry swimming around the parents and protecting them.

BTW - The like the new Avatar, but you had the Beanie Fish for so long it was definitely your ID. I actually plan on changing mine too, because my artist son, give me a t-shirt he made with his own artwork as it relates to my fish hobby. I was going to use some of it for my avatar.


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Hey tetratech,

Is that supposed to be you head down in the tank?

Now I finally know your secret of taming the Wisteria, you scare it flat with your head right above it .

Seriously, nice drawing by your son

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Yes, Sir that's me. Now you know what I look like.

Here's the full pic:





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It's nice to know this is how my 12yr old pictures me. Notice the states are fishes.

Here' a similiar version with a statement:







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tetratech,

Very cool pictures! Kids are really cool.

There is something special to making wisteria stay down? Most of mine is doing it. I actualy want some of it to grow higher! I guess I will have to steal some of Bob's wisteria thats like a tree!

55G Planted tank thread
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Thanks Wingdsc,

One thing I forgot and you might be doing it, is when you cut a top off and you replant it, if you plant it at an angle roots grow along the entire stem and it goes into the substrate. After doing this time and time again, for the most part it stays down. If you plant it straight up you will get some that grow vertically.

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Very nice Tetra, get 'em started in the hobby early


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tetratech,

I have kind of been doing such thing. Most of it has just been doing it on its own. I havent really been doing too much trimming. The ones that I have been trimming are bigger side growths with roots coming off of them. Then planting them so the roots are in the gravel. I am actually starting to get a pretty good carpet of wisteria down.

I will have to post a picture pretty soon. I really need to buy a cammera or have some one drop one off at my front steps.....wishfull thinking......

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Nice avatar, your son is really creative!
The tools are nice, what exactly are they for? They look so surgical!
Do the fish flee and hide when they see them coming? ]

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Wingdsc,

Looking forward to the pics.

Luvmykrib,
The tools are for trimming leaves and planting. The thing that looks like a spatala is for smoothing out the substrate, etc.

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Some individual plant shots.

First a shot of the wistera. This plant covers 80% of my substrate and has been growing large lush leaves and staying low.



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Here's the pic

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Next is the Diandra Didiplis. It's growing well, but staying green so far, this plant can grow quite red, but maybe my 2.7wpg or not enough FE is keeping it green.



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This is the Blyxa, which I can see why Bensaf recommended it. It really is a beautiful plant and I think once arranged correctly will take me scape to another level.



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My stargrass after almost being eliminated from the tank after it got stunted I think from low no3, has made a major comback and is coming in full after replanting the smallest of tops.



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The Eusteralis stellata wideleaf is putting out some new growth after the stemmed took on a goosneck shape after planting a few weeks ago. The new growth is mostly green but I could see some purple developing. I think once the new growth is larger enough I will replant the tops.



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And finally a full tank shot in the room because of some guy named Dan.



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I guess I will have to steal some of Bob's wisteria thats like a tree!

Actually I've seen Bob's photo's, he doesn't have any Wisteria. What he's identified as Wisteria is actually Water Sprite, quite similar in looks but completely different in habits.

Tetra, nice av, you look just like I thought you would

Glad you like the Blyxa. Having the right selection of plants in the right places is half the battle.


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Hey Bensaf whats the diff. from water sprite and wisteria..J/W because I have water sprite and when I bought it I thought it was wisteria. Thanks in advance!
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Bensaf,

I knew something was up with his stuff! It just didn't look quite right. Thanks for the ID! I am thinking of sticking that stuff in the back right corner of my tank by my wisteria.

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Hey Bensaf whats the diff. from water sprite and wisteria


Wisteria is a stem plant. Water Sprite is actually a rossette type. If you look at the Sprite, the leaves unfurl from a central crown, while it may at first appearance look like a stem with leaves it's actually one big leaf. Wisteria is a stem with 2 leaves on opposite sides per node. It can be trimmed and it will branch out. You can't really trim Water Sprite in the same manner.

Water Sprite is a plant that deperately wants to float and does quite well as a floater. The large leaves will produce plantlets and if left to do this will eventually disintegrate into a lot of plantlets that will float with the roots hanging down. It sucks up a lot of nutrients particularly NO3. You can stop this by trimming off the plantlets as they appear.

Water Sprite grows at alarming speed, definately the fastest growing plant I've ever seen. While very pretty it's not a plant I personally like to use because of the growth rate and tendency to produce so many plantlets. I find the Wisteria easier to maintain and to use in a scape. It's just a bit prettier too IMO.

Both are very easy and can do well in moderately low light. The Water Sprite is definately more tolerant of lower light though.

If you want to fill a lot of space quickly, Water Sprite does that well. For something easier to control and shape Wisteria is the way to go.


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Looking very nice tetratech,

I will wait a while and see what growth the Blixa will take on. I could see it replacing my rather boring Dwarf Sag and Chain Sword, at least in some places.

Good job ,

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I don't think your chain sword or sag is boring.
One thing I'm quite certain of is when you do finally add some hardscape it's amazing how plants that you thought looked so so, look much more interesting. Everything reacts off everything else.



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This morning I checked on the fry and I believe I have 3 still kicking in the 5gallon tank. They are still tiny being feed only Hikari First Bites.

I can't see any in the 72 although it's possible some have surivived but probably not.



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I will wait a while and see what growth the Blixa will take on. I could see it replacing my rather boring Dwarf Sag and Chain Sword, at least in some places


Great, yet ANOTHER trendy addition to the planted tank... first glass diffusers, then UVs, now this...


Sorry to hear about the further fry loss, but as LF pointed out somewhere above, your rams will breed again, Im sure this wont be the last batch you see.


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Well I can't do another breeding tank so I could do one of these scenerios next time they are ready to spawn.

1. Take my fish in my 12g and put into my 72g and let them spawn in the 12g.

2. Parition my 72g somehow

3. Remove some of the tetras most notability the mini-barracadas (I mean pencilfish) from the tank.

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Blixa always intrigued me but I seem to remember that it is capable of reaching at least medium height. This would work fine in tetratech’s tank but not in mine as I would like to use the plant more in the foreground.

About tank partition: If you care tetratech, look at the [link=First Picture]http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/Aquascaping/61406.html" style="COLOR: #ff6633[/link] in my 29G log. There you can see how I separate the left front corner of the tank with a standard tank divider. I think they might come in your tank height as well.

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As far as Blyxa I think the height depends on the light.
I like that "height depends on light" anyway if the light is strong it will grow bushier if not as intense it will grow lankier and taller. It also will turn during colors depending upon light and fert parameters.

Yes, I remember the paritiion. A possible way to go.

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Just my opinion, but if you're really intent on breeding rams and selling the offspring, or raising them etc. then you might as well do it right and set up a breeding tank for them and a grow out tank for the fry. It's a tough sell to put all that work into aquscaping your main tank and then plopping a big divider into the it and cutting off part of it. Breeding tanks wouldnt be too much work, no substrate, low lighting with a few pieces of slate for them to breed on, and a few clumps of java moss.


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Thanks nowher, see post a few up. I can't have another tank (my wife will take my sawsall to them) so I have 3 options.

BTW - My surviving fry are in a 5g aga bowfront with:

Airstone
Some java moss covered rocks (removed from my 12g)
Wisteria cuttings (I find so many uses)
No filter, 50% wc every other day.

Any comments?

Last edited by tetratech at 03-Jan-2006 11:01

Last edited by tetratech at 03-Jan-2006 11:01

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Sorry to hear you've been cut off.. I guess I better start collecting tanks now before I tie the knot


That set-up should work fine for now with the fry. I think at this stage it's important to keep the water very clean and not just for the usual reasons... as they grow these little fish are releasing natural hormones that impede the growth of their siblings. It's all natural selection and the like, but if you want them all to grow up big and strong using AC or in this case water changes is a good idea.


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Yeah that does happen. If I had to do it again I would have gotten a prenup for like 10 fish tanks max. You don't want to get greedy

I was thinking about getting this filter to have around it would also look good with an open-top nano tank

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9821&N=2004+22769

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Great choice, I also planned on getting at least one of these for my smaller tanks when they materialize. Nice looking and should do the job.


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My thoughts exactly. That would look really cool on a small acrylic tank with green coming out the top.

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Did a cardinal count today and I counted 9. This is from a total of 21 purchased from a few different stores about 2 months ago.

So after 2 months I ended up with a 43% survival rate.
At an average of $2.08 per fish and taking into account the 43% survival rate this brings the average cost per surviving fish to $4.86. So if this average holds and I want to have a solid school of 40, it would cost me a whopping $194 to establish the school.

Now I haven't introduced any since I got into the wonderful world of UV Sterlization. So I'm not sure how that would affect the survival rate.


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Well since Bensaf is still cleaning the algae off his glass, I'll have to bore everyone with some more pics.

This first shut is a comparison with today and a few weeks ago (13 days) to exact. In the top photo you can't see the stargrass because it's too low and 13 days later a hugh change.



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A closer shot of the front of the tank. You could see I removed the wisteria from the middle and it'a pretty much Blyxa there. I'm not sure I love it, I need to fine-tune and blend it more with the surrounding flora. I like this shut because you could clearly tell it's a bowfront tank with the black edging left in.



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Here's a shot of the rotala that has come back. I see alot of red, so I guess the UV isn't having a big impact on the availability of FE for the plants.





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Hi,
I missed something... Why would a UV light affect the
Fe in a tank?
Frank


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tetratech,

You never bore us with pictures , except if you show us the Wisteria in 10 shots in a row from just slightly different angles .

I think there is some wonderful healthy growth there. In particular the Star Grass put out some large leaves.

Why did you remove the Blixa from the right side?

Ingo


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Frank

It has been said that UV light oxidizes some traces, most notably Fe making it unusable by the plants. I haven't been able to find any scientific data to back this.


LF,
Thanks, I was just going to upload my wisteria photo album.
I removed the Blyxa from the right because I thought it looked kinda lost. I think I need to add a rock or something so it looks like it's part of the main group.

There is something unusual in this photo, I'm sure LF will find it.




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I'm sure LF will find it.


Hm &#8211; first guess would be red, aka dying, brush algae on the rock in the left front.

Next guess, and more remote, one of the stems from the Stellata is actually a Willow branch

But I stick with the first guess

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Believe it or not your second guess is much closer.
I put a skewer bbq stick in there to help the stella grow straight up. It keep growing into the rotala and another piece into the diandra.

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I think the Wisteria might have told the Stellata that you are into the flat design and all the Stellata tries to do is to please you so you don&#8217;t have to pack out that whip .

Do you think cutting it shorter would help? I don&#8217;t know, just guessing.
Does it get light from straight above or slightly from the front?

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LF

Do you think cutting it shorter would help? I don&#8217;t know, just guessing.
Well, I'm going to cut off the tops once the new growth get's bigger. It's one big stalk so I don't want to cut back yet. From what I understand the bottoms sometimes don't grow or take a few long time to regrow.

It does get light from pretty much straight above.

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This is more a photography question. These two pics are pretty much the same except the top one was taken with a white balance setting of Tungsten and the lower pic is with a auto white balance. Your suppose to match the white balance setting to your light source to get the most accurate pic. With photography you could try to match the real conditions or use a setting which looks best. Let's face it many of the high scapes you see I'm sure do just that, including Amano. Which of these pics do you prefer.



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including Amano


Oh, of course. He's a photographer just as much as an aquascaper... I noticed a lot of little tricks and even photoshopping in the photos of his tanks - its all about making them look good, afterall

Personally the bottom one looks much better. Much warmer, brings out the reds nicely and leaves the black background black, rather than rendering it with a blueish hue. And notice how the tungsten setting renders the reds greyish or white, washing them out completely. Blegh!

Tungsten doesn't looks good in tank shots, mainly because we don't used tungsten lights over them, we use fluorescent i find that either a fluorescent setting or even regular daylight (probably what your camera chose) look the best. The tungsten WB makes it look like you're using an actinic light over the tank.

Last edited by NowherMan6 at 05-Jan-2006 10:41


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Yeah,

Without a doubt I like the bottom one better as well.

It shows the color differences so much better.

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Yes, I agree with both of you. The bottom actually is more realistic. I think in the real world the tank looks alittle lighter.

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Hey, something where I have some expertice, photography

I agree the bottom picture is better and I think I can explain why it is better. Im going to assume that your lighting is about daylight (65-6700k). Tungesten is significanly lower, is very orange in general. Your brain tends to do its own white balancing so you dont notice it. Tungsten is orange, the more steril looking florescents in offices are genreally green. The camera is doing what nowhereman said because the tungsten assumes the lighting is X ammount to orange and it ajusts all the colors accoringly. Thus you loose the nice red on the tips of those plants and the gravel, which I think is black in sunlight looks blue in the top picture.

In general when you are wondering about the color balance of a photo and have several to compare, the one that has the best color contrast, it kind of 'pops' more is the correct one. The wisteria for example has much better detail overall in the correct photo. If you had a photo with a color balance set for 1000k you would loose detail again as everything became too orange.

I dont know how much of what I am seeing is easily observed because it took me a few months of doing my own color photo printing to really start to see this stuff.

Hope it was reasonably clear,

Chaos

Actually, just to mention it, the bottom photo is probably a little to orange. The gravel isnt black in that photo either. So the perfect photo may be a little inbetween but much closer to the bottom one.

Last edited by chaosmaximus at 05-Jan-2006 12:21

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ChaosMaximus,

Thanks, yes that did make alot of sense.
Your definitely in the right place. Your photographic knowledge with planted tank interest are definitiely a tough combination to beat in terms of challenge and beauty.



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The camera is doing what nowhereman said because the tungsten assumes the lighting is X ammount to orange and it ajusts all the colors accoringly


Right. Take a shot of a person under incandescent lighting and their face is orange, with tungsten film () or a digital setting it's much cooler.


Of course, if people shot RAW you could do whatever you want with it no matter the camera setting.


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nowhereman

Is RAW an acronym of some kind? or do you mean somthing else? just wondering

Chaos

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I think you've used the Blyxa perfectly, it looks it's best against rock where they show each other off. Also you've planted it in an ideal triangular configuration (been studying your Amano principles ? )

But I do think it still looks a bit bare there though. I'd like some bunches of a small Anubias there, at the bottom of the rocks just behind/alongside the Blyxa. The braod leaves of the Anubias, with the thin Blyxa and the rocks would all set one qnother off really really well. It'll also give a more "aged" appearance.

I know you tried Anubias before and didn't like it. But the variety you had was a bit too big and not enough of it. I'm thinking a few thick bunches of small Nana or Petite. Grouping or tying a few rhizomes together gives that nice bushy look.


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Thanks for the comments bensaf. I agree it looks alittle empty in the mid are where the Blyxa is especially with the fullness of the wisteria. Not sure about the Anubias because I don't have anyting to anchor to over their. Are you saying to just anchor them to each other.

Another option might be to ad more rocks and try some riccia to add green to that area.

My new challenge now is BBA. It is starting to overwhelm the rocks and wood, I also noticed some of it on the Blyxa.
What's interesting is that it seems to be growing more where there is water movement from the spraybar which is positioned on the left wall of the tank pointed at a 45 degree angle. You could see the Blyxa swaying from it. It pretty much hits that mean rock and driftwood. I also noticed it accumulating on my intake right where the co2 is going in. Many aquarist on APC complained about the same thing. I have not touched my co2 and I know it's in the 30s unles my kh and ph tests are wrong. I've begun to overdose excel.

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bensaf
 
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You don't need to anchor them to anything as such. Tie or rubber band small rocks or stones to them,to weigh the plant down and plop them in. You can hide these stones easy enough or push the stone down into the substrate just make sure the rhizome is not covered. You can pile up Anubias pretty easy.

Current doesn't seem to make a difference to BBA. It will always settle on hard scape/equipment first. Equipment should be cleaned/bleached regularly. It can be hard to keep of hard objects even with good Co2. But it's always worthwhile to check Co2, test for KH and pH. It's easy to get got out. KH can shift from rocks etc. Needle valves can move and reduce the bubble count without you noticing etc.There's a few ways it can move, you need to keep an eye on it or you may find you're running lower Co2 levels then you thought. Always a good idea to check KH and pH regularly to make sure your where you want to be.

The Excel's a good idea, harrying and hassling BBA helps.


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Hi Guys,
I did some initial research on the UV vs Fe effects.
This is a series from "The Krib" about it:
[link=http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/comments.html#m15]http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/comments.html#m15" style="COLOR: #FF00FF[/link]

There are others too, but the chemistry gets kinda deep.
The short is that it looks like there are no worries.

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tetratech,

You say that you overdose Excel, why? Have you tried the regular dosage for at least one week first? It worked very well on my tank. Back to your question picture - maybe it was an illusion on my end, but I thought I see some red algae on the rock to the left. Once it turns red it is dying and all you have to do is to keep up the regular dosage for a little longer.

About the Anubias: Bensaf is right ( what else is new? ), they don't need to be tied to something. Actually, all of mine were shipped to me with small regular roots already expaning from the rhizome (sp?). I buried all of mine in the substrate making sure the rhizome is above the ground. These roots become rather big after a short while and the plant will be savely anchored.

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LF,
As far as the excel treatment. I haven't really dosed the regular amount. I assume you mean the 5ml for every 50g.
How many doses did you do to see any change? I dosed 35ml yesterday and was going to do this for a week every other day. No, that wasn't bba turning red, just some red color on the petrified wood. By the way when the bba turns red and dies do you jus leave it in the tank or do you remove it some how.

In terms of anubias, I didn't know you buried those in the substrate. I guess if the rhizome is hidden from view it would look alright. Thanks for the info.

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tetratech,

I guess I didn&#8217;t dose the normal dosage either, but I had a different regiment.

I started off with the first dosage (means there is no Excel prior in the tank) at the suggested amount, being 5ml for every 10G (suggested after 40+ % of water change), in my case I added 50ml, for you it would be the 35ml that you added.

Then I subsequently dosed every day 20ml, so maybe 15ml for your tank size, for one week. Changes occurred around day 4.

I think dosing every other day may not be as effective, on one day you attack the algae and the next day you give it a break &#8211; supposedly Excel stays active for only 24h (no evidence to back this up though).

About the Anubias: I will take a picture on the weekend and show you how it looks in my 29G where the roots are clearly visible from the front of the tank. I kind of like the look of the roots as it reminds me of a Mangrove tree.

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Anubias roots, when planted under the gravel, will grow thick, white and quite long, not unlike large crypt or sword roots. When we normally see them, the roots are green and on the thin side; not so when buried. During my replant I noticed one set of A. barteri roots that were roughly a foot long. Just be extremely careful when burying the roots as to not bury the rhizome (said often enough, I'm sure, but nevertheless...) It will rot and the plant will die at the slightest bit of being underground, and with the other ground cover you have you probably won't even know it.


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LF,
Thanks. Did the bba in your tank every come back and when it turned red did you end up cleaning it off hardscape and cutting leaves or did it pretty much just distegrate into the water column?

Thanks LF and Nowher for the anubias info.

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tetratech,

Before I treated the tank for the first time I had serious black rims on the Anubias and various other plants and hardscape. Never came back, except some small bushles (I actually assume of a different algae type) on my rock. This one has been eliminated during the last (second) sweep with Excel. I never physically removed any remains. As far as I can tell it turned red, then gray, and then disintigrated.

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O.K. Thanks LF.

I guess my fear with over dosing the excel too much is the E. Stella which looks like it has "I'm melting" written all over it and the tolerance of the Yamato Shrimp which now total 5 in my tank.




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Here's a pick of some of the bba on the recently named "Krusty Peak"

A greenish-grey in color. It actually doesn't look bad, if it could be contained, but it's definitely spreading too much.

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Are the shrimp eating it at all? Is there anything that finds it tasty? Would otos be of any service? I have many questions, no answers. I don't remember if you tried otos in that tank at all. Mine do ok but I'm still scraping all kinds of algae off the glass. My vacation and the direct sunlight coming in for an hour a day led to all kinds of algae growing everywhere that it wasn't growing before. No GW water though knock on wood.

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I have a 9 otos in the tank and at times I have seen them clean a path of bba on the dw, but I they can't keep up with it. I also do think the bba is their preferable type of algae and there is some spot algae (normal) on the glass for them. I have 5 shrimp and I can't say I've seen them bother with the BBA. They stay on that piece of dw all day and nibble on that attached piece of java moss.

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bensaf
 
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Ottos usually won't touch BBA. They prefer diatoms and the soft stuff. But then again a lot of fish will peck at any algae if it's young and fresh.

I agree that algae on rocks and wood look better with a coating of algae. As long as it's the right type, one of the more "attractive" algaes. The soft green ones are ok. Unfortunately ones like BBA and staghorn are just plain ugly.

Was the Excel already added when you took that pic ? I usually find that grey bba is very unhealthy bba on it's way out.


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Was the Excel already added when you took that pic ? I usually find that grey bba is very unhealthy bba on it's way out.
No, the bba I have has been grey from the getgo. Definitely accmulating more in the path of the spray bar. As I mentioned other apc members have experienced same.

Co2 I know is high ph 6.2 to 6.4 and kh 3. I could start guessing buy I'm I think I'm done playing perfect scientist. Other than some nice healthy spot algae there is no other algae in the tank, leaves are very clean, full.

Bensaf, I would love to send you some of my stargrass, it is growing madly. (Starting to sound like LF). I'm glad I regrouped my rotala and stargrass from little pieces, much more satisfying than buying more. Especially the stargrass I had replanted 1 to 2 inch pieces, by tomorrow morning it will be the tallest plant in my tank.

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Jan-2006 20:49

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Starting to sound like LF


And what would be wrong with that

Slight shift of topic,

As promised, here are 2 pictures of an Anubias Nana planted in the gravel.

Full Shot:

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Close-Up of the roots. You can see the rhizome is way above the substrate (middle of picture):

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Thanks for the pics and info on the Anubias. I think they definitely have their place. One reason I guess I'm not a big fan is something I was thinking about and something Bensaf said in the other thread "they are plastic plants that grow". That said, I guess they do offer good contrast with "real" looking plants

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Post Spawn

Well I don't think any fry survived in the tank unless they are hiding in the elaborate network of wisteria. with the 5 pencils and 9 cardinals I don't think they had much of a chance. The few I put in the 5g did not survive and never really got any bigger, so I think it was a nutrient issue without BBS or other adequate food. It was kinda a hapazard setup next time I might go all out trying to rear them. Here's a post spawn pick of the ram still showing exceptional color. This pic is taking with auto white balance and is natural. Whoever said bolivians don't have color they should tell it to this girl. The color and spawning hopefully is a testament to good quality water.

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Last edited by tetratech at 07-Jan-2006 10:14
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dvmchrissy
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Your Rams are just absolutely gorgeous! IT makes me even more excited and anxious to get my tank up and running so that I can get my Rams!!! I hope mine are even close to as pretty as yours are! I hope you have better luck next time with the spawning. Like I said before I would love to work out a deal with you on a pair of them. I am sure I can speak for everyone when we say we are rooting for you and your Rams! Keep up that great tank!


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dvmchrissy,
Thanks for the ram and tank commments.

As I predicted the Stargrass now is competing with the Rotala as being the tallest plant in the tank. You might notice from this pic I had to cut back the diandra for a couple of reasons. One it was growing into the stellata wideleaf and also at closer examination some of the stem bottoms were getting black. It's amazing how healthy a stem plant could look and then two-thirds down the stem the has a completely dead spot - solid black. That show's I guess that the roots on those plants are there for anchoring only and most nutrient is thru the leaves. The diandra remembers me of a cross between cabomba an rotala r. The leaves just fall into alot of pieces like cabomba. When I saw the black stems it reminded me of when I first started and didn't know anything, but this plant got black stems with alot of space between them and I think enough light 2.7wpg cf. I get the feeling this plant needs really heavy light. Maybe I should give some to LF.

Anyway here's a pic showing the stargrass and cut back diandra.



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Here's the pic:



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luvmykrib
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She is absoulutely gorgeous!

If the rams are at all like the kribs, the female will be that colourful each time they come into breeding mode. Mine is all by herself in a tank with barbs and otos, a SAE and 1 lonely danio and she colours up more intensely about every three weeks. Then she chases the barbs around and gets testy with the other fish. She hasn't hurt them, but she lets them know when to stay away.

When I'm ready for a bolivian ram I will be trying for a female. The male kribs aren't much to look at and I'm thinking it may be the same with rams.

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luvmykrib &#8211; Male Rams are at least as gorgeous as their female counterparts .

tetratech &#8211; I know you don&#8217;t mind a little criticism, right? In my opinion there is one thing missing from your tank: flow. It appears to me as if your tank has 3 (or even 4) distinct sections, left wisteria, right wisteria, mound group, and maybe the blyxa group. If that is intentional then you achieved your goal there. I personally like it better when groups flow into each other and it seems like you are working towards that with the Diandra flowing into the Wisteria on the right. Just my thoughts.

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LF, I always want your comments, thoughts, etc.
Acutally if you look at page 32 in one of my full tank shots after I added the Blyxa to the middle, I commented:

I'm not sure I love it, I need to fine-tune and blend it more with the surrounding flora.
So right now I'm getting a feel for the growth, The stargrass also needs to be moved in to get more cascading action going, but that plant I'm afraid to touch.

This is a pic when I compared now and when I had some of the wisteria still in the middle area in front of the rock. It obviously blends both sides together. Another thing also is the wistera on the right toward the middle is almost to the front of the glass (remember it crawls) and needs to be cut back to lessen it's impact. It should really support the center and not take over, but you know that wisteria.



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Makes perfect sense

You are right, the Wisteria in the middle made it blend together.

Do you like this one?

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Actually I did think about doing just what you illustrated, but I felt that wisteria was too powerful with it's bigger different leaves and would overwhelm the setup. If it was a similiar ground cover it would work well, so I'll be shifting, blending, trimming etc. You might also have noticed that I have some dwarf hairgrass growing in 2 different locations, although I kinda like the constrast with the black eco I want to see if it comes in better the second time around.

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Some random pics of the tank. First full tank after water change. Move some of the wisteria on the left to overlap some of the blyxa. I also moved one blyxa in the right group further right to blend. I might decide to cover some of those rocks in front of the blyxa with riccia to bring more green into the area.



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Here's pic 98.7 too big as usual.



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Some rotala.



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Estellata



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Estellata, hoping this starts to color up.



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Blyxa. You know it's false pearling, when your dying bba pearls as well.



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Twin peak. The middle dw is the only place so far that javamoss as taken to.



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tetratech,

I think I am falling in love with the Blyxa. If it doesn't get too tall then it would be much prettier than Dwarf Sags or Chain Swords. I will watch yours grow and spread and then maybe adopt this plant in my tank as well, if you don't mind.

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Full room shot from my kitchen sink. LF, I must have missed something, who is Dan?

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Close up of my favorite occupant.



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This is a fun shot. Looks more like outspace than a fishtank in my kitchen. See the shooting stars.




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I love the Ram shot, great picture that shows its beautiful color

The only Dan I know is a member of this site, why? Did I mention a Dan somewhere here? Dan at FP has his own log with 4 65G tanks on a rack.

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The Blyxa is a very nice plant. Seems like it works best when used at the base of structure, similar to tenellus... the question is how big it grows etc. Another planted tank fad... UVs, glass diffusers, Blyxa... what next?


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Ingo,

The Bylxa won't get very tall. It'll get wider by producing side shoots. It's a very easy plant to control unlike the chain sword which can get out of hand.

Blyxa Aubertii is another one that would work well in your tank. Unlike the Japonica it's more of a true rossette type plant. Get's a lot taller and very wide.Similar texture and shape leaves to the Japonica, but a lot longer and softer.In your light it would turn red on the top portion quite easily so may give a splash of color while still retaining that grassy look.

I find it grows a lot faster then the Japonica.

Tetra,
If I may be a little critical.....

I do like your tank a lot. It's well laid out and the plants look full of health. But it also leaves me a little cold. It seems a tad sterile. There's no small details. I don't feel any mystery and because of that I don't feel any desire to investigate and look further. It's like "wow what a pretty tank"....and they I move on.

The Blyxa I think accentuates this problem. A pretty plant well laid out, put in the right place and then...nothing. There's a few rocks there but they're just sitting there doing nothing, they don't distract but they don't add anything either.

This may partly be due to my own bias. You know while we both appreciate any well done tank we also have quite different personal tastes. I certainly go for a more crowded look.

The most important and painstaking parts of my own tanks are the minor details, the ones that unfortunately don't come across in photographs. The greatest personal satisfaction is when I see somebody looking at my tanks and they crouch down, try to look thru the sides or they are almost breaking their necks trying to get a closer look at some detail because they think there might be something else there, even if most of the time there isn't.

Generally the placement of stem plants comes rather easy to me , more thought goes into the choice of species. But I have spent hours trying to get small details of where wood, rock and plants meet, so as the whole becomes greater then the sum of the parts.

All the good tanks have this I think. There's always sections of the tanks you can't see, at least not at first. There may not actually be anything there but you want to look to find out for yourself.

The thing with your tank, at least at the moment, it may change as plants fill out, is that I can already see everything.

Slight edit. You posted a new photo while I was typing this. The full tank shot showing part of the room. I have to say that it looks more impressive in that shot. Still think some detail around the Blyxa would be a big bonus.

Last edited by bensaf at 08-Jan-2006 21:06


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Bensaf,
I could definitely appreciate your comments. I think I'm always torn between keeping my tank simple (less species) and letting this simple but dramatic layout show off a large school of fish (which I don't have yet) or adding more flora and giving it more complexitity. As you of course know some of the most striking tanks are one's that have only a few species of plants, not to say that certain elements aren't located strategically to add interest.

At this point I would like to see how things grow in a bit. Although I'm very happy with the Blyxa it has reduced the flow (as LF pointed out) and I need to make the necessary adjustments for it to work completely.

Any comments are always appreciated.



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bensaf
 
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Well maybe I should clarify a little. Certainly I wouldn't suggest you go mad and add a lot more species. Something I've certainly been guilty of in the past is too many species with none making a impact. I'm trying to control that urge these days.

Certainly I think you've handled the stem plants very well and certainly wouldn't add more species. Let what's there fill out. You may even decide to drop one of the species later and it would still be impressive.

I''m thinking more of the smaller details. The mid/foreground areas. Accents for rocks etc. You really wouldn't need too many more species 2 or 3 would do it.

Certainly I wouldn't suggest you go down the road that my collectoritis forced me. These days I'm removing more species then I'm adding.

I think one phrase you made probably highlights the differnce in our attitudes. You want a tank with a striking background for a school of colorful fish. I lean the other way. Cardinals, Neons et al, while beautiful fish don't do it for me. They just seem to sit there. I prefer the fish to be more interactive with the environment. Gouramies gracefull winding thru plants, Bettas prowling through a mass of Anubias leaves, Pencil fish pecking and poking thru everything, and Ottos being Ottos. I got into the habit of building 'scapes to encourage that kind of behaviour. This works against me sometimes. Things I should keep simpler I end up overdoing.

You can see this trait even now. Remember when I re-did the tank? While the overall layout is the same it was much simpler and cleaner at the start, you can see in the last pics everything has got denser, more complex and darker (even though I now have more light over the tank). Guess I just can't help myself.



Last edited by bensaf at 09-Jan-2006 00:41


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tetratech
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I think one phrase you made probably highlights the differnce in our attitudes. You want a tank with a striking background for a school of colorful fish. I lean the other way. Cardinals, Neons et al, while beautiful fish don't do it for me. They just seem to sit there. I prefer the fish to be more interactive with the environment.
That's a very good distinction. I'm always hesitant to add more fish because I feel it would eventually clutter the big school I plan on having one day. Although in a tank of my size I do want and have some fish that use the layout like pencils, rams, otos. I also currently have 5 yamato shrimp. As I said I need more tanks, I'm always torn between a tank with maybe two or three plant species and a large school or one with more variety buy not Dutch like. I really need 3 medium size tanks, this way you'll always have one show tank and the others you could play with.



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I've definitely observed my otos munching on the bba. I don't have alot of algae on the menu, so maybe they are desperate. I've also caught the yamato shrimp pictured here making a snack of it.




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That is a beautiful shot tetratech

I guess all you need is about 100 more shrimp (). At my LFS they go for $5 each.

Ingo

I really like this picture


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Thanks for the pic comments LF.


I guess all you need is about 100 more shrimp
Yeah exactly, that' what Amano always says, so simple, $500 later. I don't think the 5 I have will put a dent in it. BTW I got all my yamato shrimp at aquarium adventure. They were $3.99 each minus 25% for being a AA member which was free since I signed up when the store opened. Wow $5 is high, I thought $3.99 was high, I wonder what Bensaf pays. The cherry shrimps were $5.99 but were not in stock.



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get other shrimp apart from yamato's. there are other algae eating shrimp that will eat a different variaty of algae than yamatos and also reproduce in fw.

Just avoid az gardens for shrimp.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 09-Jan-2006 13:36

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Just avoid az gardens for shrimp.


Any experience you'd like to share?


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http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/71/sort/2/cat/4/page/1

I believe everything is covered there. The shrimp shipped were miniscule , and as stated hot very good survival rate.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 09-Jan-2006 13:47

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Megil,
Sorry to hear that. What kind of shrimp did you order and how many? Did any survive to reproduce?

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Hey, i was wondering what kind of a camera you are taking the photos with. Because you were asking about photo exposres before I thought I might add a little more info. I believe that your camera is automatically over exposing your photos. [I see the etherial quality of many of your plants as evidence of this, though perhapse you like to use this as an awe inspiring effect? ] It depends on the kind of camera but you may be able to ajust its settings. What it does whne you take pictures, all of which seem to be without a flash which is great imo, is that it tries to make the net exposure for the immage what is called middle grey, as far as light inensity goes. The camera does not understand that your background is supposed to be black or that snow for example is supposed to be white. Because of this it over exposes the aquarium pictures with large ammounts of black in them. The 'false pearling' picture has good detail overall, because of the normal balance of light and dark. THe one below it shows heavenly wisteria. Anyway depending on the camera you might be able to force better exposures, but it depends.

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Chaos,
Thanks for any advice, I am certainly not that photo savvy.
My camera is a Canon S2 IS, not an SLR, but from what I understand a pretty good camera, some shots I believe are limited because of the iso setting only going up to 400 and insufficient light. Most of the shots you see in my thread are taking with the manual seeings using shutterspeed as a priority.

The settings are using 1/10 - 1/20, f 2.7 to 4.5, with 2/3 underexposure. I do have a black background and black substrate so I do like the way it makes the plants pop out.

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Gee,

am I glad that I am reading this thread.

I was going to order my shrimp from there, I guess I will have to find another source then.

Thanks Megil also from me, I am sure you saved me quite some money (and hair).

Ingo


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LF,
If I spend $70 for shrimp shipping my tank really would be over my head like in my avatar.

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Here's another shrimp shot. It's interesting to watch them. When a fish swims close the shrimp put up their arms in an effort to defend themselves.



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I was going to order my shrimp from there, I guess I will have to find another source then.


Hehe, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe shrimp are just poor shippers? Never had them shipped before, but it seems the death rate shouldn't be as high as megil says it was. Will have to do some more searching for online retailers, I think I saw some place online called Frank's something-or-other, little pricy though... and there's always aquabid.


Chaos,

All true enough, but taking a pic of a tank with a black background/ substrate and high lighting is like taking a pic of a guy in a big black coat out in a snow covered field on a bright sunny day - if you expose to capture either extreme perfectly, the other is going to look crummy. if you want straight from the camera .jpegs, in the case of planted tanks I think it's best to underexpose only slightly - the point is not to see the background at its best, but to capture the detail in the plants. For straight out of the camrea .jpegs I think the exposure is pretty good. Ideally I think one would underexpose a little - no more than a full stop - and then play with shadows/ highlights in Photoshop... or if shooting .raw files it would be that much more effective.

Sorry, that was off topic. I'll control the photo-nerdness from now on


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[link=http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm]http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm" style="COLOR: #001700[/link]

Heard good things about him. probably worth a shot. When ig et around to restocking the 20G again i'm ordering from him what i can't find locally. (going to try getting some from deb first)

but to answer the earlier question none lived long enough to reproduce. shrimp aren't that delicate of shippers AZ gardens just has shotty quality. well I do have some rudolphs still, they are about all i ahve left from the purchase.

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Day 1 - The excitment

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Day 12 - Innocent growth

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Day 38 - I had at all (in my naive mind anyway)



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Day 65 - Innocence Lost



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Day 77 - The comeback

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Hmm... an obvious lack of GW pictures here, tetra... youre not telling the whole story here!


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Day 97 - Happy New Year!

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3 Days ago - Nowher, not now, I'm on a roll!



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Today - reworked blended foreground to appease my critics



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Are we done yet

Nice collection and naming of each set

Ingo


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Yeah I think I got it all out, actually I think I skipped a few pics. Nowher, GW never visible from front, sometimes bad photo skills come in handy.

If you look at the foreground I spread the blyxa further and scattered some wisteria into the middle to help blend. I guess I'll let it grow in and see how it looks. The poor Blyxa has been uprooted and moved like 4 times already.

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tetratech,

Things are looking really nice. I can't wait until I can do some more work on my tank!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Thanks Wingdsc.


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bensaf
 
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The poor Blyxa has been uprooted and moved like 4 times already.


Well don't move it again

It's a relatively delicate plant, it does not take kindly to being moved. It takes quite a while for it to root and establish, every time you move it , it has to start over.

I'd go as far as to say the secret to growing it well is stick it in and never move it.


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Nowher, GW never visible from front, sometimes bad photo skills come in handy.



Not bad photo skills, I just dont think you had GW nearly as bad as mine, probably why it took your UV less time to make things sparkling clear for you. Anyway, I like the new look of the tank, even though Hendrix Rock is no more.


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It certainly does flow better, although I still find the left side Wisteria group to be isolated.

Also, from the pciture, one cannot easily see the driftwood stick on the left. I am sure that when looking at the tank directly it creates a flow towards that left side.

Ingo


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Speaking of wisteria groups, holy cow! Look at the right side of that first pic - empty!


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Speaking of wisteria groups, holy cow! Look at the right side of that first pic - empty!

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tetratech
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Edit error on previous post. Anyway your referring to the day on pic right Nowher, yeah, the wisteria was left over clippings from my old 46 gallon and there wasn't much of it when I first started.



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It's just wild to look back on it and see it so lacking in wisteria because wisteria has become such a ounced and dare I say, defining element in your tank.


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Oh it's got depth baby!

For those of you who mentioned my tank lacks depth (you know who you are) I wanted to show this side shot. The grouping of blyxa is on three different levels with rocks pushing up the substrate aroundthe big rock. You could also see the big rocks are staggered as well at different depths. It's hard to see this from the front.





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tetratech,

Yeah, I see the depth, from the side of the tank

I never doubted it is there, but sometimes it is hard to see it from the front of the tank (aka standard photo position). I am sure that it will look deeper once the area in front of the main group has filled in some more.

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Thanks Lf,

Question? I'm on day 5 of the excel treatment I've been doing about 20ml everyday, I haven't seen the bba turn red, but looks like it has stopped spreading. I think you said your's turned red around day 4.

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Yup tetratech,

That is what it did for me, and proportionally on a smaller dosage than yours.

Maybe it doesn't work equally on all tanks or on your particular type of algae.

I would say keep it up for at least 3 more days.

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Actually I missed a dose while I was out of town.

See my other thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/General%20Freshwater/67955.html?200601111643

Last edited by tetratech at 11-Jan-2006 16:58

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I have seen the other thread,

But I didn't dare to comment in it as one never knows if an entry was your last, once you are on a roll .

Maybe the skipping set it back, let's hope that this is the issue then dosing longer should fix that.

Ingo


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It's just wild to look back on it and see it so lacking in wisteria because wisteria has become such a ounced and dare I say, defining element in your tank.
Yes, you may say that. It just comes in so nice and it's low maintenance.




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bensaf
 
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For those of you who mentioned my tank lacks depth (you know who you are)

*whistles nonchalantly*

Pity most people look at the front of a tank and not at the sides

To be fair though, pictures never do a tank justice. They always look better in person, can't beat the 3 dimensional view. Photo's do tend to flatten the look of a tank, moreso when you use any kind of zoom.

Maybe we were a little harsh.


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Maybe we were a little harsh.
I can take it, keep the honesty coming.

Anyway here's a pic of the E.Stellata Wideleaf. I'm starting to enjoy the constrasting leaves. It hasn't colored up so I'm thinking of upping my FE dosing or maybe my light isn't intense enough to get the color.

Current dosing schedule:

n03 - .5 tsp
po4 - .05 tsp
Flourish - 10 ml
Flourish trace - 5 ml
Flourish excel - 20 ml (currently treating bba)
co2 - slow moving stream of bubbles

Although plants look really healthly I don't get much pearling. Although I don't necessarily associate pearling with plant health I do like to witness pearling at times, so I've changed my co2 diffusion from canister intake to a limewood airstone under my spraybar (too cheap to buy a glass diffusor.) I do see all the tiny bubbles bing wooshed to the plants. I want to see if it increases pearling




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I have a glass difuser setup for a few days so far and I have already noticed some pearling..Not on any of my wisteria tho.
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bensaf
 
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The Excel will definately reduce pearling. So you may not see much until you're finished with that treatment.

Depends on the plants too. Heavy oxygen producers pearl heavier, faster. Riccia is the classic example, Java Fern while slow growing makes a lot of oxygen and will pearl at the drop of a hat. Wisteria seems to be somewhere in the middle.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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bensaf,

Why does the excel cut back on pearling?

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Don't know. But it's certainly widely reported and it's something I've experienced myself in the past.

Maybe it somehow slows down the plants oxygen output or reduces the amount of oxygen in the water.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Pic update. I believe it's Day 110 (give or take)

The tank has definitely entered a new phase of lushness with the revival of all my stem plants, plus the additional ones. Here's a shot looking through the left size.




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Oops alittle too big,



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Shot of the main group showing contrasting colors and shapes


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Full room shot,



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tetra,

Tank certainly does look great, but looking at how well the stem plants are growing, I can't help but feel that you can take it to the next level by doing something with the right side of the tank, building up more height with stem plants etc. The hardscape is there, it just needs to be filled in.

the wisteria carpet can remain, of course...


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You know what,

For the first time this tank looks to me like a 20G Long. It seems tiny, what happened?

Don&#8217;t misunderstand me, it is very very beautiful and the shot you took makes it look like a piece of art, but the fact that this is a big tank is not coming across.

Maybe it is because of all the small leaved plants, I don&#8217;t know.

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Tank certainly does look great, but looking at how well the stem plants are growing, I can't help but feel that you can take it to the next level by doing something with the right side of the tank, building up more height with stem plants etc. The hardscape is there, it just needs to be filled in.
I could appreciate your comments, but I probably will not do that. I feel keeping the stem plants bunched in a tight group off center gives me my stems, but also allows me to have the drama of open water which will eventually be populated by a big school of something. Again I need more tanks.

For the first time this tank looks to me like a 20G Long
You caught me, I knew I couldn't fool the LF eye for long. It is a 20g, I just couldn't admit it with your big tank.

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No, it&#8217;s not a 20G

I know that the plants cannot be that small when proportioned down to the size of a 20G, except if you would have miniature versions of each in which case I would love to have some of them.

I guess once a load of schooling fish are swimming in the tank and they become visible in the picture then it will be much easier to judge the tank when comparing the size of the fish to the rest of the tank. Yeah, I guess that&#8217;s it, thinking about it more made me realize that even some of Amano&#8217;s tanks would appear small if there wouldn&#8217;t be the 100 Cardinals swimming around.

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That's a very good point about Amano's tanks. Sometimes the only way to get a feel for the size is by seeing a large school of fish. Speaking of Amano did you see this additional link I put in that shows more pics of his big tank in his home. It also is part of a gallery of pics from ADG and Oliver knott that will make you sick.

http://www.pbase.com/plantella/niigata2005amanoshome

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For the first time this tank looks to me like a 20G Long
"Cheeky young pup" Stick this in your 20g.





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I thought this pic was a good fusion of fish, plants and art.



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Cheeky young pup


You are flattering me, not with the cheeky part, but with the young pup one .

Looking very nice, the Star Grass is really coming in strong. Also, the front of the hill (do we have a name for it yet? ) is coming together. Did you trim the Diandra?

Is the right side the area that the Rams call their home? Or are they perusing the whole tank?

What&#8217;s the latest on fish? What are your current thoughts on the large school. Wanna have about 20 Espei?

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The front of the hill (do we have a name for it yet? )
Not as of yet, I'm open to suggestions.

Did you trim the Diandra?
Yes, I think I mentioned it in an earlier post (I know it's hard to catch them all) that I was amazed at how well the diandra grew and then when I looked closer to see a black section 3/4 down the stem. I guess it shows that the plants get most of what they need thru the water column. So I cut back. It's kinda struggling, I don't know if it's one of these plants that doesn't do well with the excel overdose treatment.

Is the right side the area that the Rams call their home?
How did you know. They do peruse the whole tank, but are on the right side 99% of the time.

Still haven't decided on the large school yet, your espei's do look nice. Here's an updated pic from tonite. The stargrass is almost to the top as well as the rotala. I'm not looking forward to the trimming. I'm torn between replanting all stem tops as opposed to cutting and letting the lower part regrow.



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I also decided to change my method of co2 diffusion. There was nothing wrong with the canister injected method, plant health was really good, but I wasn't getting any pearling. As Bensaf pointed out it could be a possibly of the excel treatment that you pointed out as well, but I wanted to try something else. So I setup a limewood airstone right below my spraybar. Here's a pic as the microbubbles go up and then across the tank. (I'll probably eventually get the glass diffusor for aestetics and for effectiveness,although this limewood airstone gives off really nice small bubbles.



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tetratech,

I just set up my 2nd DIY Co2 with a limewood block. I really like the small bubbles it makes too. Right now I have the ladder going on one side of the tank with the block under my filter. I havent noticed tons of change but its only been going for a day. My Bacopa did crack the surface today but I have added some other stuff in the mix too.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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I hear ya Wingdsc. Something about those little bubbles.
Make sure you test your co2 levels with both of those going.

BTW - I was in my lfs the other day. I picked up some otos for my 12g as well as 2 kuli loaches to help move around the sand and on my way out I noticed they were selling riccia.

So I took some as well. Fiqured it would be fun to play around with it. I thought it was interesting the way it was priced $1.99 per ounce.




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Nice find on the riccia!..I'd like to see how it turns out in your tank setup
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I thought it was interesting the way it was priced $1.99 per ounce.


So how much surface area is an ounce?

As far as my Co2 levels go....
I might have to actualy go buy some test kits but right now as long as my fish aren't freaking out then things are good. I was actualy thinking of hooking up a 3rd bottle just to see what happens.

Edit:
Maybe that will have to be a new thread.....

Last edited by Wingsdlc at 15-Jan-2006 21:47

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Fiqured it would be fun to play around with it.


It is fun to play with. But once you've got it, you pretty much have it for life. It's remarkably easy to grow and grows fast. You only need one little tiny scrap to survive and you have a whole new batch.

I got rid of mine a while back to make room for other plants. Thought I got rid of it all but it keeps cming back. Even in the small non Co2 tank it keeps popping up.

Not a big problem it's easy to remove. It pops up tangled in moss , ferns Anubias. I just leave it be til there's a big ball of the stuff, then I pull it out. But a tiny piece will remain snagged somewhere a few mionths later you have a big ball again.

I think it will work well in your tank. Just hold it down on a stone with a hair net or mix some in with the moss.


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tetratech,

Yeah, I think Riccia is a very nice plant, look at all the Amano tanks that have full ground covers with it.

But I also believe they are a pain in the neck to keep trimmed. You will have to cut them short frequently to avoid the bottoms from dying off and the rest floating to the surface (or being swirled around the tank and settling all over the place).

And unfortunately I currently know one other person who has problems with not maintaining his ground cover right .

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You will have to cut them short frequently to avoid the bottoms from dying off and the rest floating to the surface (or being swirled around the tank and settling all over the place).
Yes I have heard that. I plan on just using it on a few rocks, etc., but I know the little pieces are going to be a pain.

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I really like the look of the E.Stellata Wide Leaf. It reminds me of exploding fireworks (especially if it starts to color up more), unfortunately it has a very week stem structure as you could see it's being straighted with a bbq stick.



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Eusteralis Stellata, var. barbequii



It is very pretty though

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Eusteralis Stellata, var. barbequii

You know I read this and for a second I was going to look up that name. Not enough coffee yet:%)

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I'm sorry to intrude in such impolite manner, but according to what I see in the pictures, especially the last one, you have Limnophila aromatica there, and not Eusteralis stellata. I say this because of the shape of the leaves and also because of the slight colour that can be seen on the underside of the leaves.

According to my experience with L. aromatica, your problem is lack of nutrients rather than lack of light. Try to add a little more fertiliser before you mess with your lights and see what happens. If that is the problem you'll see that it colours up very quickly (2 - 3 days), and it will also become more robust so that the skewer will not be necessary anymore.

Last edited by Untitled No. 4 at 16-Jan-2006 13:29
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Son's of a $%#&amp;. I know the aromatica is many times sold as E. Stellata. This pic below from the Krib is saying it's E. Stellata and this is exactly what my plant looked like when I purchased it. The new growth looks much different from the original growth tha melted away.



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And where have you been all that time Untitled No. 4? I missed you.

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I've heard of the water sprite for wistera trick, but this is ridiculous.

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That picture from the Krib shows a really poor E. stellata, if you ask me. It can, and it often does, look much better. But there's nothing wrong with L. aromatica, it's actually quite a nice plant. Add some more Flourish/TMG/whatever it is you're using and see how nicely it grows as it developes deep purple shade on the leaves, first on the underside and then on the top as well. It's also a little less moody than the E. stellata, but it shows right away when it doesn't get enough nutrients.

As for where I have been, I was here lurking most of the time. I was also busy at work (not all of us have the time to surf forums from work...) and then busy with setting up a new tank a few weeks ago. And anyway, I don't think I've had much to add to all that was going on here, but it is nice to see both of your progress.
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Untitled, yep I think your right I pretty much confirmed that it's the aromatica, but each one looks very similiar here's two better pics from the Plantfinder at APC. The first one is aromatica and the next is e. stellata. These pics are taken from the same tank with the same conditions.

First the aromatica:

null

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and the E. Stellata



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The E.Stellata is smoother and does grow bigger as well.

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They usually sell Aromaitica and Stellata side by side here in the same tanks. When I see them together they look almost identical yet there's always a difference I can't quite put my finger on. Seen seperately I can never tell the damn difference.

The narrow leaf Stellata is very easy to spot, but that's one finnicky plant.

I prefer the Aromatica anyway, it's easier to grow. like the light purple undersides, real nice shade. I think it's a bit more subtle too, the Stellata is a bit "show offy" for my taste.

If it is Aromatica I agee with untitled the color will come from nutrients rather then light. Think about it, the main color is on the underside of the leaf, light is not going to play much of a role there.


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If it is Aromatica I agee with untitled the color will come from nutrients rather then light. Think about it, the main color is on the underside of the leaf, light is not going to play much of a role there.
That's really an excellent point. I'm going to try and up my Flourish dosing. I'm not using a dedicated FE supplement, the diandra is not coloring up as well. Guess they aren't getting much FE from the roots thru the eco. I was hoping with the eco and the flourish they would be fulfilled in the FE department.

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My stargrass has reached the top of my tank, from maybe a 1 inch clipping in about 30 days time. So that's about 3/4 inch per day based on my tank being 22inches tall.



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And what are you going to do with it now, tetratech?

I am very keen on finding out how the next trimming will go.

I will keep my fingers crossed,

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And what are you going to do with it now, tetratech?

You must be reading my mind. After I put up this post I was going to edit and say "what do I do know?"

It looks really good right now, but I know it's just a moment in time. I know last time it stalled after cutting it back, but I wasn't running the same levels of no3 at the time. I did prune some stems and they did grow right back. Maybe I should run a poll?

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Well,

How does the bottom part of it look like?

My tall ones usually have very thin bottoms, with loads of water roots (that sometimes find their way back into the substrate), and no leaves at least in the center parts of a group.

I guess not trimming it is no option anyway, so the poll should be like:

a) just trim off the tops
b) replant the tops and dispose the bottoms
c) other options (please explain)



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I guess another possibility is to trim out some of the middle stems to allow more light to enter the middle. Not sure how that would look.

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I like the idea of replanting the tops for this one. With a tall stem plant theres always the risk of making it look stringy. If they're tall they should be bushy, IME


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Wow..Nice growth!
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Here's an updated pic of the foreground area of my tank.
I covered two rocks with riccia and placed them jutting out from some of the other rocks that are now almost forming a border with the wisteria in a more classic open foreground look. (Need some bigger rocks to complete).

I also decided that the controverial E.Stellata is better suited as a midground/background plant because of it's one thick stalk, so I'm going to attempt to move that forward a bit.



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Nice picture tetratech,

It also seems that the Blyxa has settled in nicely.

I agree with you that you need bigger rocks to make an impact with the Riccia.

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I think the Riccia is a really good choice in your tank.

You'll be able to propagate it pretty quick. When the current rocks get to "haircut" time you can use the clippings to make new rocks. It'll fill in that central area where the group of 3 Japonica are real nice.


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Thanks guys!

As you can see, my 1 ounce at $1.99 riccia didn't go that far, but as Bensaf points out I'll probably just wait for it to grow. One concern I have with the bowfront and growing foreground plants is this. I have 2.7 wpg the tank is 22inch deep. The bowfront does have a darker area in the front of the bow, so I'm hoping there is enough light to grow the riccia.

I agree Bensaf, the riccia works well with the dark substrate in that center area it will green it up without being too distracting.


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tetratech,

I think the Riccia will be very distracting as it will create the bubble effect that you always wanted and as such draw a viewer&#8217;s attention to it in no time. A living air stone .

But in a good way .

I hear your concern about the lack of light in the front section. You might have a point there. The Riccia I have (and yes, I do have some that came in with the moss) doesn&#8217;t look too good in the areas that are low light within the moss. I guess we will have to wait and see how low the light in front there really is.

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I think the Riccia will be very distracting as it will create the bubble effect that you always wanted and as such draw a viewer&#8217;s attention to it in no time
You give me too much credit


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Well my little experiment with my co2 diffusion methods definitely confirmed something. I had recently changed my diffusion from thru the intake to a limewood diffusor under the spraybar. Both methods have kept my ph at around 6.2 to 6.4, but I'm noticing pearling on both my rotala and stargrass which never happened with the thru the intake method. So Bensaf's comment about the bubblemist is dead on. I'm sure I would get even more pearling with the finer bubbles that the glass diffusor makes.

Here's a pic (not a great one) showing current diffusion method. The wood airstone is right below the pic. You could see all the small bubbles going up and then sprayed across the tank. My bubble counter is set to a slow moving stream.

tetratech attached this image:


Last edited by tetratech at 19-Jan-2006 19:09
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Last edited by tetratech at 19-Jan-2006 19:11

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bensaf
 
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You should try the glass diffusers. You'll get much smaller bubbles. Your 'ol mate Robert @ Aquabotanic is selling some nice ones for $8.99 - on sale.

If I remember correctly the wood airstones will corrode and disintegrate over time due to the CO2.


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NowherMan6
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Errr, ya'll know my feelings on glass diffusers


But whatever works for ya... by the way, what did you do with the tubing going from the CO2 tank to the airstone? Did you hide it or am I missing something?


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NowherMan6,

You don't like the glass diffusers? I must have misses something, some where...

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Love 'em my friend, love 'em. One of the best moves I've made. Neat looking, cleans up easy, not at all unsightly, does a great job saturating the water.


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Thats what I thought but I guess I read into your post wrong.

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Your 'ol mate Robert @ Aquabotanic is selling some nice ones for $8.99 - on sale
I think I'm on his do not sell to list.

Bensaf, you know the wood diffusor is just a bridge to the glass one.

Nowher the tubing is there, right in the middle of those bubbles.



Last edited by tetratech at 20-Jan-2006 00:10

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NowherMan6,

I guess you didn&#8217;t know that tetratech is also known as &#8220;The Man in Black&#8221;. He managed to so almost completely into stealth mode for his entire equipment, all black.

Sounds good with the new diffusion method. This glass diffuser thingy (that I am sure you will switch over to in no time) is very seducing. But I think I would have to give it a little more thought before I am sold on (for my tank, that is) the hassle of splitting the line and making sure each end gets the same amount CO2 worries me.

tetratech, I am a little surprised about your bubble rate. Given that we have the same unit you must be injecting more than I do (although my flow rate is fast too, it is not a low stream). Is your rather low ph a target you desire or is it a necessity because of the CO2 level you try to achieve?

Ingo


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The Man in Black
Might have to come up with a new av!

As far as the bubblerate. I'm a believer that the co2 should be pushed to the highest rate possible. Right now my plants look good and the fish seem really good to.
Could also be my diffusion rate isn't as good as the glass diffusor cult members. My ph looks to be between 6.2 and 6.4 late afternoon, so with a kh of 3 that gives me anywhere between 36 to 58 ppm.






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Yep I gave up counting bubbles too a while back. Just a steady stream going in, i'd guess 4 or 5 bubbles a second .I try to keep the pH at 6.6 but my Kh is higher at 5.


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I guess you didn&#8217;t know that tetratech is also known as &#8220;The Man in Black&#8221;.



Hate to burst your bubble here, but there's only one Man in Black, and his name is Johnny Cash. Sorry tetra. Still, maybe he liked fish tanks, I dunno...

As for the bubble rates, I'm in a similar position as tetra. My CO2 is somewhere in that range - according to CG calc. - but fish have shown no signs of stress, and that's good enough for me.



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his name is Johnny Cash
Yeah, but does Johnny Cash have:

Black trimmed AGA tank
Black self stick background
Black substrate
Black heater
Black intake tube
Black tubing

and black diandra stems

I really doubt it!

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Ye forgot the black beard algae !

I'm going down down down into a ring of fire, a ring fire


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I'm going down down down into a ring of fire, a ring fire
Are you having a bad day?

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It's Saturday. Getting ready for beer. Just humming my favorite Johnny Cash song.

Always thought that particular song would work well in an advertisement for hemorrhoid ointment.:%)


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OMG! Every time I peek my head in here I leave laughing so hard it's just not right. (After three kids laughing too hard is not a good thing...)
The things you guys get up to!
Funny I've often though the same thing about that song!

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I really wish I could join in on the singing and beer drinking, but although it is Saturday I will have to go to work for a few (up to 14) hours. ]:|

That is my ring of fire, at least today.

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I'm going down down down into a ring of fire, a ring fire
I must admit I don't know many Johnny Cash songs. Sounded more like something out of "Lord of the Rings" You know, movie stuff.



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Some updated pics and changes. I decided to establish a "beachfront" since I was so close to it anyway with all the petrified would. So the wisteria is now contained behind pieces of rock leading to the open foreground that contains blyxa and riccia and some hairgrass. I also trimmed some of the stargrass (yes, I blinked first) and planted it on the right of the main group so again I have stargrass bordering the group. The diandra is still very weak and it's now behind the new stargrass stand on the right. It has been given me alot of problems and I don't have the luxury of adjusting my parameters to fit it and I don't have another tank that I could play around with. Could be lighting or the excel treatment weakened it.






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Last edited by tetratech at 22-Jan-2006 10:29
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In case it's hard to see in the previous pic the whiteline follows the rock border.



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Here's a comparison of before and after the beachfront.



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Closeup shot of some of the rock border to the right showing riccia cover rock. Missed a few spots covering the rock with the riccia also I have some duckweed I noticed trapped under the hairnet. &amp;*$% lfs



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Yes I can grow moss. This is one of the few places it grows well.



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Blink Blink

Well, looks nice, and so far the Star Grass on the right of the main group fits right in. Once grown in, it will give the Rotala and the Stellata more of a center stage in the tall plant group.

Funniest thing is: I just finished my maintenance (couldn&#8217;t do it yesterday, worked 13 hours in the office) and opened FP and what do I see, your beachfront. I just happened to start the removal process of the Glosso and cleaned the area in front of Rock Valley, making it an open gravel space, like a beachfront . More about this later this evening in my thread (can&#8217;t take good pictures now, have to wait until all the bubbling wears off a little).

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I like the beachfront look, it adds a different dimension to the tank, I wish I new more to be able to say that better but I do like some open ground in a planted tank, I think it gives the eye a path to follow and a place to rest in between all the green. Tetra your tank looks great as always and I'm sure the riccia will fill in and cover the whole rock pretty soon. Ingo I can't wait to see the pics of your new beachfront. Man that glosso really grew though!

Last edited by luvmykrib at 22-Jan-2006 13:53

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Thanks for the Beachfront comments,

LF,
Yep, pretty much fine-tuning the center display. Looking forward to seeing your beachfront.

Lumykrib,
Thanks for the comments on the beachfront, still adjusting a few things, but so far I'm happy with it. I agree that it breaks it up more and gives more constrast.



Last edited by tetratech at 23-Jan-2006 04:53

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Yeah dude, that beach front thing literally works. The right side of your tank can now be called the wisteria jungle, because it looks very much like a miniature jungle on the edge of a beach. Ever been to the carribian, to any of those islands down there? Seriously, that right side reminds me of flying over some of those silands in a plane, looking down from above. very cool.


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Seriously, that right side reminds me of flying over some of those silands in a plane, looking down from above
I'll take it!

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Any new ram breeding? it's been a while now...


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Any new ram breeding? it's been a while now
It's funny that you said that. Just the other day I noticed that rich brown-orange body color again. So the courtship as begun once again.

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Must've been all that time relaxing on the beach together. A few new life spectrum coladas, some brine shrimp cocktail served chilled - it was a regular honeymoon for them!


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Here's a closeup of the ricca after about 5 days. Seems to be growing. I didn't do the greatest job covering the rock and as I mentioned I trapped a piece of duckweed in there as well.



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The rock looks very natural that way, moss doesn't pop up and entirely cover a rock all at once, it takes over gradually, you've captured the look where the moss is showing it's potential and the rock being slightly visible doesn't detract at all from the moss. I would give it the time it needs.

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luvmykrib,
Thanks for the nice comments about the riccia. I of course agree with you. I think in another week or so it will really look good.

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More Rams to look out for, lovely

I like the Riccia Rock and I can&#8217;t wait to see its progress. If you haven&#8217;t done so already, try to make pictures of it from the same distance and angle all the time so maybe one day you can post the stages in comparison.

Having it on a rock should make pruning rather easy, I guess. Do you see any fish nibble on it? I think my Platies in the smaller tanks do that.

Ingo



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I thought this was an interesting pic. It shows the microfine co2 bubbles that are coming off my wood airstone that aren't even strong enough to break the surface. If you look closely you could see some pearling on the rotala.



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I notice I get the same thing periodically, though to me it's more of a bad thing than a good thing - it means my filter outflow has slowed down enough that there's no longer enough water movement throughout the tank. That's when i know to clean.

In the past I've noticed this buildup of little surface bubbles right above plants that are pearling heavily. The bubbles would be so fine they wouldnt break the surface. Before the redo it usually coincided with BGA showing up somewhere...


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That's an interesting point. I really didn't contribute it to reduced flow just that the bubbles are so fine coming up from the diffusor that they aren't breaking the surface. In fact I have these little bubbles all across the 4 feet of tank. Another thing you'll love about the ehiems is that with all those bioballs instead of pads your clean out your filter every 3 to 6 months.

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I really didn't contribute it to reduced flow just that the bubbles are so fine coming up from the diffusor that they aren't breaking the surface. In fact I have these little bubbles all across the 4 feet of tank.


It's most likely quite different in your tank than mine. I have a HOB, remember, and the intake and outflow both take place nearer the surface of the water than with a cannister set-up. What SHOULD happen with mine is, little bubbles go up to the surface but dont break cause they're so small, but then get pushed around to the filter outflow and get broken up eventually. When mine sit I've learned to associate this with a dead-zone forming. Since the intake on a cannister is much lower in the water you have sufficient flow lower down, something I don't have... yet. That's why to me it's a lovely looking thing... but nevertheless I try to avoid that with my present set-up.

Another thing you'll love about the ehiems is that with all those bioballs instead of pads your clean out your filter every 3 to 6 months.


Already looking forward to it...


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The bubbles clinging to the surface is quite common, even for fairly large bubbles. Normally there will be thin film or slick on the suface of the water. How thick that film will be is dependent on a number of factors.

The bubbles get got under this film and cling to it raher then bursting.

By the time they get to the suface they may not even be Co2 bubbles but rather o2. As the small micro bubbles reach for then the surface and there's agas exchange where the co2 is dissolved and replaced by O2.

This is probably one reason why so many where sceptical about the glass diffusers and so surprised when they worked. People assumed the bubbles just went to the top and burst. Waste of gas was the common perception. Chances are most of the bubbles hitting the surface are no longer Co2.

I notice myself, as maybe you do, that a very large proportion of the bubbles produced by the diffuser make it to the surface - yet we have no problems getting and mintaining the good required Co2 levels. QED.

Last edited by bensaf at 24-Jan-2006 20:42


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here is a thread from another place and this kind has kind of a neat set up for diffusion. 200G with DIY Co2. A little crazy if you ask me but his tank looks nice.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I guess I'll bring my thread back to life with a pick.

Here's a current shot of one of my riccia covered rocks.
Growth in length, but not too much add'l coverage. The riccia is really beautiful and it's not hard to see why it's so popular as a ground/hardscape cover.

LF I promise I'll get a comparison shot soon.





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Looks like a Chio Pet, or however this is spelled



Ingo,

No really, looks nice


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It really does look nice. I still like the bit of bare rock sticking out. Not really like a chia pet at all, that's just grass or something, the riccia is much more interesting.
This is one held on with a hairnet right? What's your plan for removing the hairnet when the riccia is fully attached? Please do give a comparison shot to one that is tied on, it will be neat to see if there's a difference.

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Thanks luvmykrib. You know that LF, he has such a way with words.

Actually the comparison between hairnet and thread is in my 12g tank with java moss. This tank has only riccia held down with hairnets. The hairnet will remain as long as the rock is in there. Without it the riccia will simply float to the top since it's incapable of really attaching itself. The comparison was going to be by time not by how it was held down.

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I got them mistaken, so a comparison of attachment will be showing up in the other thread then? Using a hairnet to hold the riccia on is a stroke of genius, I never would have thought of it...then again I don't have hairnets on hand...or wear them...ever!
A growth comparison to what exactly, from when it was planted to now? Do you have some in another tank to also compare it to? That would be neat, but if not it will still be interesting to see how much it has grown.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Update:

1. Beachfront completely established with rock.
2. Added a bigger piece of wood to left to match the other two pieces.
3. Stargrass on the right has taken off and is growing in front and behind the center DW. Stargrass on left is also growing in front of DW.
4. The diandra is pretty much gone. I left it to fend for itself behind the stargrass on the right.
5. Cut one stalk of E.stellromatica to bring the grouping closer to midground. I would like to wrap another plant behind it if possible.


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Tetratech,

Looking very nice.

You said you trimmed the Star Grass but it seems (with the other plants in the group) to still reach the surface. Is it growing that fast?

If I would have a say (which I don't ) then I would recommend to let the Star Grass group on the right grow only half heigh.

Ingo


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Thanks LF,

Yes, it growing extremely fast and I do plan on "blinking some more" in fact I'll probably end up cutting both stands of stargrass lower than the rotala and stellaromatic.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Jan-2006 02:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
tetratech,

diandra...is that....http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/SAP/DD

I kind of like the way that plant looks. Why types of problem are you having with it because I have been eyeing it for sometime now.

Edit:I was really thinking of this stuff......sorry!
http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/SAP/ENAR

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Post InfoPosted 27-Jan-2006 05:40Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Wingdsc,
I had the diandra I never had the egeris. Both seem to be fine-leaved. The diandra kept getting black stem sections 2/3 the way down. It seems like my lite wasn't strong enough for it.

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Wings,

The Najas is much smaller in diameter than the Diandra. Also, it is by far not as pretty, and it will melt when one is using Excel (to kill algae, for example).

But on the upside it needs less light than the Diandra.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Jan-2006 17:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Just did some testing as far as kh and ph. Lately my kh has been 2, usually 3. PH is anywhere between 6.2 and 6.4

Assuming the kh kit is sound (pretty old - more than 1 year) my co2 ppm is anywhere between 24 and 38. That's a pretty big range. I think this is a classic example of why you have to watch the fish and plants. Many might interpret their ph as closer to the 6.2 and swear their co2 is in the 30s, but it is actually in the 20s.

I'm still getting bba and if Tom Barr is correct my co2 is probably closer to the 20s. Plants are growing and pearling so things are good I just want to beat back the bba without going broke using excel.



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Excel is just cost too much but it works so well. What is a guy to do? I have actualy stoped using it in my 40 gal but I have upped my DIY Co2 to two brews of mix. Things are growing really well. I have plants that are growing to the top of the tank. Its way cool.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 01:59Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wingdsc,
Glad to hear the plants are doing so well. I guess I'll have to up my bubble count to raging rapid.

Anyway here's a comparison pic of one of my riccia covered stones. The angle is slightly different, but you could definitely see the flatness under the hairnet and then 9 days later.



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Here's a pic of it against a backdrop of wisteria and some blyxa to the right. I think it constrast very nicely with the petrified wood. What do you think? I'd really like to know

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Looking nice and growing well

The only thing that I can say that would not be perfect (if I had to ) is that it is too small to make an impact.

We need more of this stuff, either on larger stones or maybe on growing matts .

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 11:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks,

I do plan on greening up the center area with more of this stuff. As I mentioned I barely had enough to cover the two rocks. Now that I have the border of rocks I will be added more rock to the inside in selected areas and they will be covered with riccia. Maybe I'll do a different chia sculputure of each one in your honor.

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More would be better but it does look really nice. I am thinking of getting some Pellia moss. I like the looks of the stuff.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 17:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Maybe I'll do a different chia sculputure of each one in your honor


Yeah

How about if you start with a Little Fish

I am glad that you are planning on expanding the Riccia group, it could be very very pretty (or a mess, but as long as it is not free in the tank you can easily dispose of it).

Ingo

EDIT: NEXT ONE IS 1000 - Leave it for tetra


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Yes, it's the 1,000 post to my log that was started about 4 months ago. Biggest conclusion is "You can't be all things to all inhabitants. If you constantly try to fine-tune parameters, etc there is always a conter reaction. You most pick your flora and fauna wisely if you don't want to .

Here's a pic from today. Trimming time is overdue and has already cost my a blyxa that was unfortunately under the canopy of the overgrown stargrass and rotala. Also the pencilfish are pulling at the blyxa and riccia like spagetti. They are starting to bother me. But all this is a foregone conculusion.

LF, Thanks for saving me the 1,000th

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You are welcome tetratech,

I think 1000 is a very special number, the next one of that kind would be 1 million, and if it takes us 4 month for 1000 then it would be 4000 months, or 333.33 years to 1 million. I don't think you and I will be around for that one .

Anyway, from your statement I take it that Blyxa needs to be in full light. Good to know, as this means that the plant would have a hard time being the borderplant between tall and short plants as rather often than not the tall plants will create some shadow.

And yeah, trimming is overdue

Congrats to the 1,000

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 01:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hopefully by replying I can freaking veiw the last 2 pages of your log! Whats up with this? Some kind of glitch from the new fish profiles look?
Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 03:51Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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saltnewbie,

Right on the money. You are seeing everything there is the see. There are just extra pages beeing added here and there on some of the threads.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 04:03Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Interesting side note I recently introduced 6 add'l cardinals tetras to my existing school of 9. This is the first group I have added since my UV has been running. All other groups that I have introduced prior to my UV resulted in some inevitably getting an infection within a few days and dying. So far after about a week all 6 are fine and I see no signs of any infection. Is the UV the answer for fish that are sensitive to pathogens and other diseases. It's only one group of six, so I'll probably purchase anothe group shortly and see if I have the same success. And yes LF, my rummys do school with my cardinals at times

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Glad to hear you're having success with the new cardinals! I was wondering how they would do, since you hypothesized earlier that going from UV holding tanks to your non-UV tank may have been shocking their immune systems. As you've been saying, keeping the tank clean is one thing, keeping the fish infectionf ree is an added bonus. You're on your way to that big school


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks nowher UV good, GW bad

Speaking of big schools, looks like my rams are getting the honeymoon suite ready. Colors are out of control, pushing gravel around. What do you think if I just use a net breeder in the tank and feed BBS. Think any will survive.

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I'm not familiar with how a net breeder works

The important thing is getting them away from those hungry cardinals and pencils. As long as you get any fry to their safe house, whatever that might be, mix them with some java moss for them to peck through and feed them the BBS they should be OK.

Another option, if you want to help the fry survive, is maybe putting a clumo of java moss right next to their rock in the back. This way they'll have a hiding place to run to to keep away from the pencils til they grow a little larger. They should be able to feed themselves with little bits of whatever in the moss/ on nearby plants.


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'm not familiar with how a net breeder works

I'm just referring to those little rectangle nets that people hang in their tank. It's about 8" wide. It would set in the 72g and I could siphon some free swimmers right into it.

The javamoss is a good idea in the back. I guess the wisteria isn't dense enough and the pencils go thru it.



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You know me well tetratech, the rummie in the school was the first thing I noticed

A netbreeder might be worth a try, just make sure it doesn't hang in full current or a stale area. Also, it shouldn't be in direct light.

Glad to hear the Cardinals are doing well.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks LF,
As you know I have a million and one uses for wisteria, so if I get the net breeder I will fill it with wisteria clipppings to block light, etc.

When I take pics of my tank it look's empty but there's actually 45 inhabiants in the tank.



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45 fish in your tank. That is really wild being you never see any thing in your pictures. How do you do that??

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:04Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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yeah, post some livestock pictures

1.) so we can get an idea of what fish are included in the 45

2.) to fill up this log so something actually appears on pgs 40-41


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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don't think I'll ever catch up to the last page they keep reproducing like LF's espei. I'll have to do that but the flauna list is as follows:

15 Cardinals
9 Otos
8 Pencils
4 Rummys
2 Corys
2 Bolivan Rams
5 Shrimp

45 Total





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All pretty small fish. I don't think I could get a shot of my tank with out a fish in it. Most of my fish are bigger than yours though. Pictures would be cool as Nowher said.

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:36Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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The riccia grows real fast. You'll be able to give it a haircut soon and use the trimmings to make new rocks.

The fish will treat it like spaghetti, I once made a post with a series of pics of all the different species of fish I had treating the Riccia like it was an all you can eat buffet. Usually the stuff grows faster then the fish can damage it.

The Blyxa definately can't take any shading. I've had prblems with mine where the sags around it have gone wild and are shading choking it out.

It's the monsoon season here and it's almost like the plants can sense it, everything is gone wild growth wise and I can't keep up with the trimming. Even with trying to do some work on the tank every evening I have some plants growing out the top of the tank.


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bensaf,

Thats a very interesting thought. I wonder if the out side stuff plays a role with our little worlds...

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EditedEdited by bensaf
I wonder if the out side stuff plays a role with our little worlds...


Well certainly the temperature has dropped. This is the coldest I've ever been in this country. It a wintry chilly 25oC 5 years in this country and I've never even owned a jacket , I bought one a couple of weeks ago. Mainly for wearing indoors, most places still have their AC set high, so it's a bit chilly in most indoor places. Going to the cinema is like watching a movie in a fridge.

Most plants are seasonal, usually aquatic's slow down in the hot summer months. Maybe the temp drop as kicked them up a gear or maybe it's the glass diffuser working do well. But everythings getting bigger, growing faster. A sword I've had for almost a year and a half has suddenly decided the tanks too small for him and is producing leaves over 2 feet in lenght and about 3" wide Java Ferns think they're Hygros


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Sounds like you are having fun then. Good luck with all that!

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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 15:23Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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When I take pics of my tank it look's empty but there's actually 45 inhabiants in the tank


Tell me all about it. As you know I have 100 in my tank and in full tank shots you can barely see 5.

Yeah Bensaf, makes sense with the growth of the plants based on climate changes. The same applies to fish, as much as I know. Some species are getting in the mood when there is a storm approaching. I would explain both with a change in conductivity (or something like that, I am not a weather guy) of the air. This sends a message to all living things that it is time for action.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 15:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The Blyxa definately can't take any shading

Oh great now he tells me. Is there a moderator in the house?

A sword I've had for almost a year and a half has suddenly decided the tanks too small for him and is producing leaves over 2 feet in lenght and about 3" wide

Do you expect anything less in your Amano Paradise Utopia Setup

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EditedEdited by luvmykrib
25 C is chilly? You need a jacket? It is just about perfect from where I see it. We haven't dropped down to -30 C yet this year, it has been an unnaturally warm winter, my heaters haven't had to work nearly as hard as they did last year. My house temp is set at 19 C, or 20C when I feel cold, to save on heating costs, yet the tanks are all set at 26-28C usually. Must be nice to live in such a tropical area. When the temp drops here I'll be asking for any pictures of sunny places, palm trees that sort of thing. I'll tape them up on the tanks so the fish think it's really nice here and won't wonder why the people are all bundled up!

Oops, when I posted this I didn't realize there had been more pages added to it. Everytime I go to the last 2 pages there's nothing there!

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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 22:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Oh great now he tells me. Is there a moderator in the house?


Well you didn't have it in a shady spot. I'm just beginning to realise that light is it's only real finicky thing. It's growing terribly slowly for me. Lots of side shoots but they take forever to do anything. I suspect it's because the tank is relatively deep (almost 24" and they are struggling for light. I'd say the same light in a shallower tank and they'd be much happier.

Well, the "Paradise" is badly in need of some heavy work. I haven't had time for much more then trimming. Chain sword/sags need to ripped up and thinned out. Anubias need to be adjusted slightly, moss needs trimming and sculpting badly etc etc, it's a very thick jungly paradise at the moment.
luv,
It's just relative. I've grown used to >30o heat and high humidity almost the whole year round. 25o , storms and heavy rain that we are having makes it seem wintry here when actually it's more like a typical Irish summer day. I lived in Russia for a couple of years, it'd get down to -20 there so I've been thru all the extremes.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Uncle bensaf,

What is up with living all over the world?

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Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 14:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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What is up with living all over the world?


Who knew so many countries had extradition treaties !


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 20:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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bensaf, you must have done some pretty dodgy things to get thrown out of russia of all places...


No offense meant to our russian friends...


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Ouch!

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Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 21:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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bensaf, you must have done some pretty dodgy things to get thrown out of russia of all places...


Well if I'd known at the time she was Vladimir Putin's daughter ............


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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It is getting deep in here. (where did I leave my chest wadders?)

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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 04:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Bensaf, you're a strapping young lad, I'm sure I'd want you on my side in a donnybrook... but if you messed around with Putin's daughter, well, you wouldn't be here talking on FP - you'd be up in that big Amano Paradise in the sky!





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EditedEdited by bensaf
I'd want you on my side in a donnybrook...


Donnybrook Now there's a phrase I haven't heard in a long time. Do you know where it comes from ? Donnybrook is a district on the southside of Dublin close to where I was born and raised. There's was a bit trouble there way back, bit of a spat between some rebs and the British army. The Dublin boys were armed with pretty much just their fists and anything else they could grab at the time. Hence the phrase.

Sorry I'm bringing this thread way off track.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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bensaf,

It happens... I don't mind so much being I just learned someting...other than fish stuff... which I learn tons from here. It is tetratech's log though and he would have to forgive you.

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I knew it was an Irish term, knew it was named after a town, but I just thought the town was a bit of a rough neighborhood - didn't know the bit about the British army.

You guys ever been in a donnybrook? Every guy should go through one at some point I went to an all guys high school, it happened there more often than you'd think. Then there was that one time in London...

alas, you're both right, this is tetras thread and all. He's been on sporadically the past few days, he's still traveling maybe?


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 05:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Ironically Donnybrook is one of the poshest parts of Dublin.

I used to run an Irish pub in Beijing. There was the occassional err..."misunderstanding"

The funniest one is a story that I tell over a few beers and usually has people rolling around the ground laughing. Lets just say it involves a German girl, a lit cigarette shoved in my ear by a drunk Canadian cowboy, a psychotic Belgian chef who refused to cook Irish stew, a missing pair of dentures that turned up 2 days later in the back of a taxi, and the Chinese secret police.

All the makings of a donnybrook !

That was a good one. I've still got a scar.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 06:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
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The funniest one is a story that I tell over a few beers and usually has people rolling around the ground laughing. Lets just say it involves a German girl, a lit cigarette shoved in my ear by a drunk Canadian cowboy, a psychotic Belgian chef who refused to cook Irish stew, a missing pair of dentures that turned up 2 days later in the back of a taxi, and the Chinese secret police.


You didn't tell me about that one (maybe because you were sober? ). I thought the one about the gun smuggling, "Ice Cream", Irish PM, and Chinese secret police was good too. Hmm...do all your stories always end up with police at the end?

-P
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 07:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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AAAAAnyway,

tetratech, did your premium membership expire?

Images and color - all gone

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 11:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I'm back
A guy goes skiing for a few days and finds his thread in a in a ganglion of knots.

The ram eggs are back to. The were laid right in the left front on one of the beachfront rocks.





Attached Image:


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 16:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Welcome back tetra

Nice to see the rams back at it. And this time right out in the open like that - the tank must be their property now


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 17:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah,

Welcome back, I thought your kidney stones were acting up again .

Nice ram eggs, should be plenty of photo ops to see them hatch.

Got to run, will post latest tank pic in my thread and then have to sign off.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 17:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks Nowher and LF, It's good to be back.

So let's see I leave for a few days and...

1. My log is in shambles
2. My rams spawn

and

3. My log gets taken over by some sorted tale about a german girl, a lit cigarette, a drunk Canadian cowboy, a psychotic Belgian chef, Irish stew, a pair of dentures, the back of a taxi, the Chinese secret police, Putin's daughter and Bensaf.

I've reported all those involved to the necessary authorities.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 22:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I've reported all those involved to the necessary authorities.


That's ok, but for God's sake, man, just don't tell them where I am


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 03:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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O.K, I've joined the ranks of the co2 glass diffusor users.

That's ok, but for God's sake, man, just don't tell them where I am

Bensaf, if I find out your on the payroll of some sorted online aquarium supplier pushing these devices to ignorant americans like me I will find you, even if I have to search every sleazy pub on half the globe.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 16:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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All right tetratech

Once again you can serve as a tester for things that I have on my list. If you easily get the desired results on your 72G with one diffuser then it might be worthwile for me to try it as well . Hope you don't mind me copying you (see Star Grass).

What size of a diffuser is that, and where can I learn more about it?

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Nice, tetra. As I said in my thread, I had bubbles going straight up to the surface, no blocking the, or shooting them back down, I was getting great saturation. It must be the fine bubbles that do it


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF, I bought mine at aquabuys. Here's the link:

http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=j_co2_diffuser&Category_Code=i3&Product_Count=1

I didn't measure it but you'll see by the description that it's supposely good for up to 120g. It does blow the bubbles since my spraybar is directly above it, clear across my tank.

BTW - What do you mean you copied my stargrass? No patents on these things? All the planted tanks are combinations of plants, wood, rock, etc. No two exactly alike.


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks for the link tetratech

Sounds like it could be big enough then for my tank as well. I am a little sceptical to use diffuser(s) if I would need 2 and had to split the line.

Copied your Star Grass: Well - I used your tank to see how well it does under similar conditions. And it does well, so I gave it a shot in my tank too .

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I doubt if you would need two, but again you have the 6-ft tank not me. For me also it's a little different because my main grouping is off center to the left where the diffusor is, so we only talking a few feet the rest of the tank is you know "weeds"

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 19:54Profile PM Edit