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  L# 72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
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Subscribe72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Interesting side note I recently introduced 6 add'l cardinals tetras to my existing school of 9. This is the first group I have added since my UV has been running. All other groups that I have introduced prior to my UV resulted in some inevitably getting an infection within a few days and dying. So far after about a week all 6 are fine and I see no signs of any infection. Is the UV the answer for fish that are sensitive to pathogens and other diseases. It's only one group of six, so I'll probably purchase anothe group shortly and see if I have the same success. And yes LF, my rummys do school with my cardinals at times

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Glad to hear you're having success with the new cardinals! I was wondering how they would do, since you hypothesized earlier that going from UV holding tanks to your non-UV tank may have been shocking their immune systems. As you've been saying, keeping the tank clean is one thing, keeping the fish infectionf ree is an added bonus. You're on your way to that big school


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks nowher UV good, GW bad

Speaking of big schools, looks like my rams are getting the honeymoon suite ready. Colors are out of control, pushing gravel around. What do you think if I just use a net breeder in the tank and feed BBS. Think any will survive.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I'm not familiar with how a net breeder works

The important thing is getting them away from those hungry cardinals and pencils. As long as you get any fry to their safe house, whatever that might be, mix them with some java moss for them to peck through and feed them the BBS they should be OK.

Another option, if you want to help the fry survive, is maybe putting a clumo of java moss right next to their rock in the back. This way they'll have a hiding place to run to to keep away from the pencils til they grow a little larger. They should be able to feed themselves with little bits of whatever in the moss/ on nearby plants.


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I'm not familiar with how a net breeder works

I'm just referring to those little rectangle nets that people hang in their tank. It's about 8" wide. It would set in the 72g and I could siphon some free swimmers right into it.

The javamoss is a good idea in the back. I guess the wisteria isn't dense enough and the pencils go thru it.



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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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You know me well tetratech, the rummie in the school was the first thing I noticed

A netbreeder might be worth a try, just make sure it doesn't hang in full current or a stale area. Also, it shouldn't be in direct light.

Glad to hear the Cardinals are doing well.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks LF,
As you know I have a million and one uses for wisteria, so if I get the net breeder I will fill it with wisteria clipppings to block light, etc.

When I take pics of my tank it look's empty but there's actually 45 inhabiants in the tank.



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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 22:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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45 fish in your tank. That is really wild being you never see any thing in your pictures. How do you do that??

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:04Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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yeah, post some livestock pictures

1.) so we can get an idea of what fish are included in the 45

2.) to fill up this log so something actually appears on pgs 40-41


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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I don't think I'll ever catch up to the last page they keep reproducing like LF's espei. I'll have to do that but the flauna list is as follows:

15 Cardinals
9 Otos
8 Pencils
4 Rummys
2 Corys
2 Bolivan Rams
5 Shrimp

45 Total





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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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All pretty small fish. I don't think I could get a shot of my tank with out a fish in it. Most of my fish are bigger than yours though. Pictures would be cool as Nowher said.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:36Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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The riccia grows real fast. You'll be able to give it a haircut soon and use the trimmings to make new rocks.

The fish will treat it like spaghetti, I once made a post with a series of pics of all the different species of fish I had treating the Riccia like it was an all you can eat buffet. Usually the stuff grows faster then the fish can damage it.

The Blyxa definately can't take any shading. I've had prblems with mine where the sags around it have gone wild and are shading choking it out.

It's the monsoon season here and it's almost like the plants can sense it, everything is gone wild growth wise and I can't keep up with the trimming. Even with trying to do some work on the tank every evening I have some plants growing out the top of the tank.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 05:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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bensaf,

Thats a very interesting thought. I wonder if the out side stuff plays a role with our little worlds...

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 05:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
I wonder if the out side stuff plays a role with our little worlds...


Well certainly the temperature has dropped. This is the coldest I've ever been in this country. It a wintry chilly 25oC 5 years in this country and I've never even owned a jacket , I bought one a couple of weeks ago. Mainly for wearing indoors, most places still have their AC set high, so it's a bit chilly in most indoor places. Going to the cinema is like watching a movie in a fridge.

Most plants are seasonal, usually aquatic's slow down in the hot summer months. Maybe the temp drop as kicked them up a gear or maybe it's the glass diffuser working do well. But everythings getting bigger, growing faster. A sword I've had for almost a year and a half has suddenly decided the tanks too small for him and is producing leaves over 2 feet in lenght and about 3" wide Java Ferns think they're Hygros


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 08:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Sounds like you are having fun then. Good luck with all that!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 15:23Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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When I take pics of my tank it look's empty but there's actually 45 inhabiants in the tank


Tell me all about it. As you know I have 100 in my tank and in full tank shots you can barely see 5.

Yeah Bensaf, makes sense with the growth of the plants based on climate changes. The same applies to fish, as much as I know. Some species are getting in the mood when there is a storm approaching. I would explain both with a change in conductivity (or something like that, I am not a weather guy) of the air. This sends a message to all living things that it is time for action.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 15:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The Blyxa definately can't take any shading

Oh great now he tells me. Is there a moderator in the house?

A sword I've had for almost a year and a half has suddenly decided the tanks too small for him and is producing leaves over 2 feet in lenght and about 3" wide

Do you expect anything less in your Amano Paradise Utopia Setup

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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 18:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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EditedEdited by luvmykrib
25 C is chilly? You need a jacket? It is just about perfect from where I see it. We haven't dropped down to -30 C yet this year, it has been an unnaturally warm winter, my heaters haven't had to work nearly as hard as they did last year. My house temp is set at 19 C, or 20C when I feel cold, to save on heating costs, yet the tanks are all set at 26-28C usually. Must be nice to live in such a tropical area. When the temp drops here I'll be asking for any pictures of sunny places, palm trees that sort of thing. I'll tape them up on the tanks so the fish think it's really nice here and won't wonder why the people are all bundled up!

Oops, when I posted this I didn't realize there had been more pages added to it. Everytime I go to the last 2 pages there's nothing there!

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 22:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Oh great now he tells me. Is there a moderator in the house?


Well you didn't have it in a shady spot. I'm just beginning to realise that light is it's only real finicky thing. It's growing terribly slowly for me. Lots of side shoots but they take forever to do anything. I suspect it's because the tank is relatively deep (almost 24" and they are struggling for light. I'd say the same light in a shallower tank and they'd be much happier.

Well, the "Paradise" is badly in need of some heavy work. I haven't had time for much more then trimming. Chain sword/sags need to ripped up and thinned out. Anubias need to be adjusted slightly, moss needs trimming and sculpting badly etc etc, it's a very thick jungly paradise at the moment.
luv,
It's just relative. I've grown used to >30o heat and high humidity almost the whole year round. 25o , storms and heavy rain that we are having makes it seem wintry here when actually it's more like a typical Irish summer day. I lived in Russia for a couple of years, it'd get down to -20 there so I've been thru all the extremes.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 04:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Uncle bensaf,

What is up with living all over the world?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 14:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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What is up with living all over the world?


Who knew so many countries had extradition treaties !


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 15:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
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Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 20:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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bensaf, you must have done some pretty dodgy things to get thrown out of russia of all places...


No offense meant to our russian friends...


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Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 20:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Ouch!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 21:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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bensaf, you must have done some pretty dodgy things to get thrown out of russia of all places...


Well if I'd known at the time she was Vladimir Putin's daughter ............


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 04:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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It is getting deep in here. (where did I leave my chest wadders?)

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 04:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Bensaf, you're a strapping young lad, I'm sure I'd want you on my side in a donnybrook... but if you messed around with Putin's daughter, well, you wouldn't be here talking on FP - you'd be up in that big Amano Paradise in the sky!





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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 05:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
I'd want you on my side in a donnybrook...


Donnybrook Now there's a phrase I haven't heard in a long time. Do you know where it comes from ? Donnybrook is a district on the southside of Dublin close to where I was born and raised. There's was a bit trouble there way back, bit of a spat between some rebs and the British army. The Dublin boys were armed with pretty much just their fists and anything else they could grab at the time. Hence the phrase.

Sorry I'm bringing this thread way off track.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 05:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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bensaf,

It happens... I don't mind so much being I just learned someting...other than fish stuff... which I learn tons from here. It is tetratech's log though and he would have to forgive you.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 05:30Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I knew it was an Irish term, knew it was named after a town, but I just thought the town was a bit of a rough neighborhood - didn't know the bit about the British army.

You guys ever been in a donnybrook? Every guy should go through one at some point I went to an all guys high school, it happened there more often than you'd think. Then there was that one time in London...

alas, you're both right, this is tetras thread and all. He's been on sporadically the past few days, he's still traveling maybe?


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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 05:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Ironically Donnybrook is one of the poshest parts of Dublin.

I used to run an Irish pub in Beijing. There was the occassional err..."misunderstanding"

The funniest one is a story that I tell over a few beers and usually has people rolling around the ground laughing. Lets just say it involves a German girl, a lit cigarette shoved in my ear by a drunk Canadian cowboy, a psychotic Belgian chef who refused to cook Irish stew, a missing pair of dentures that turned up 2 days later in the back of a taxi, and the Chinese secret police.

All the makings of a donnybrook !

That was a good one. I've still got a scar.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 06:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The funniest one is a story that I tell over a few beers and usually has people rolling around the ground laughing. Lets just say it involves a German girl, a lit cigarette shoved in my ear by a drunk Canadian cowboy, a psychotic Belgian chef who refused to cook Irish stew, a missing pair of dentures that turned up 2 days later in the back of a taxi, and the Chinese secret police.


You didn't tell me about that one (maybe because you were sober? ). I thought the one about the gun smuggling, "Ice Cream", Irish PM, and Chinese secret police was good too. Hmm...do all your stories always end up with police at the end?

-P
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 07:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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AAAAAnyway,

tetratech, did your premium membership expire?

Images and color - all gone

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 11:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I'm back
A guy goes skiing for a few days and finds his thread in a in a ganglion of knots.

The ram eggs are back to. The were laid right in the left front on one of the beachfront rocks.





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Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 16:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Welcome back tetra

Nice to see the rams back at it. And this time right out in the open like that - the tank must be their property now


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Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 17:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah,

Welcome back, I thought your kidney stones were acting up again .

Nice ram eggs, should be plenty of photo ops to see them hatch.

Got to run, will post latest tank pic in my thread and then have to sign off.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 17:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks Nowher and LF, It's good to be back.

So let's see I leave for a few days and...

1. My log is in shambles
2. My rams spawn

and

3. My log gets taken over by some sorted tale about a german girl, a lit cigarette, a drunk Canadian cowboy, a psychotic Belgian chef, Irish stew, a pair of dentures, the back of a taxi, the Chinese secret police, Putin's daughter and Bensaf.

I've reported all those involved to the necessary authorities.

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Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 22:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I've reported all those involved to the necessary authorities.


That's ok, but for God's sake, man, just don't tell them where I am


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 03:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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O.K, I've joined the ranks of the co2 glass diffusor users.

That's ok, but for God's sake, man, just don't tell them where I am

Bensaf, if I find out your on the payroll of some sorted online aquarium supplier pushing these devices to ignorant americans like me I will find you, even if I have to search every sleazy pub on half the globe.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 16:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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All right tetratech

Once again you can serve as a tester for things that I have on my list. If you easily get the desired results on your 72G with one diffuser then it might be worthwile for me to try it as well . Hope you don't mind me copying you (see Star Grass).

What size of a diffuser is that, and where can I learn more about it?

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Nice, tetra. As I said in my thread, I had bubbles going straight up to the surface, no blocking the, or shooting them back down, I was getting great saturation. It must be the fine bubbles that do it


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF, I bought mine at aquabuys. Here's the link:

http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=j_co2_diffuser&Category_Code=i3&Product_Count=1

I didn't measure it but you'll see by the description that it's supposely good for up to 120g. It does blow the bubbles since my spraybar is directly above it, clear across my tank.

BTW - What do you mean you copied my stargrass? No patents on these things? All the planted tanks are combinations of plants, wood, rock, etc. No two exactly alike.


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks for the link tetratech

Sounds like it could be big enough then for my tank as well. I am a little sceptical to use diffuser(s) if I would need 2 and had to split the line.

Copied your Star Grass: Well - I used your tank to see how well it does under similar conditions. And it does well, so I gave it a shot in my tank too .

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I doubt if you would need two, but again you have the 6-ft tank not me. For me also it's a little different because my main grouping is off center to the left where the diffusor is, so we only talking a few feet the rest of the tank is you know "weeds"

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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 19:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Pretty good shot of my ram eggs closeup. I expect them to hatch in a day or two.



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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 02:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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tetratech,

Very nice picture. Congrats! What are your plans?

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 02:26Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Very nice picture. Congrats! What are your plans

There's the rub!

My pencilfish and 15 cardinals are already licking their chops. I probably will attempt to remove some into a floating breeder in the tank and some others into a 5gallon that I have running (future nano tank).

Last spawn none survived in the 72g and the 10 or so I put into the 5g didn't survive, but I also didn't feed live food. This time I plan on hatching BBS.

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The whole trying to breed in a commuity tank is tricky stuff. In my 55G I am keeping a pair of Cons (aka cichlid rabits) and I almost never have the fry make it. At least in any kind of quanity. Right now I have a 3 or 4 week old fry that has some how made it up to this point(2 spawns later).

I tryed the breeding net and I lost the fish faster than the parents did. I guess I messed something up... I have heard you can take the eggs out and put them in a different tank so that might be something to try... Good luck!

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 03:34Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Darn tetra found out about my link to the Taiwanese Aquatic mafia - the Okidifusserwas

Yes my shameful secret I hang around schoolyards trying to hook younsters on diffusers. I'm responsible for a whole generation of MTS sufferers

Welcome to the club.

Ingo,
If you decide to go down that route I can get nifty little Co2 T-bar's here real cheap. They allow you to run 2 co2 lines off one needle valve. I can post one over.


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 04:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yes my shameful secret I hang around schoolyards trying to hook younsters on diffusers.


Really!

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 04:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

Nice egg shot, I hope we will see many wigglers coming out soon .

About the diffuser option, I will create a thread specific to the topic at hand.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 15:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well don't think I'm going to have any ram fry this time around. This morning they were all vibrating and when I looked a few hours later all but a few eggs were gone and the parents are both visible in the front of the tank. My hypothesis is that the eggs being laid in the front of the tank made it very difficult and stressful for the parents to secure them. I have so much thick ground cover it's hard to believe none will survive in there. It also might be water conditions. From what I understand ram fry don't tolerate high no3 levels, which probably do exist in my tank.

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LITTLE_FISH
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Sorry to hear that tetratech,

Give it one more try and if it doesn't work out and you decide you would like to safe some fry then you might have to set up a breeder tank (I think).

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 19:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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If you're really set on raising up some of the fry, and since the pair is well established, you can probably get away with using that spare 5 gallon as a one-time breeding tank. Use plant clippings and few spare rocks to create cover, put them in there and see if they lay eggs. Once the eggs are there you can always remove the parents back to the big tank.


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 19:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yeah, you guys are right. I guess I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 19:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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The ram's are breeding nicely, too bad they haven't managed to raise the fry though. Do the parents leave the other fish alone as well? Many cichlids become incedibly aggressive when breeding, even kribs. Which is why I am not brave enough to get a male! Although it probably has a lot to do with tank size right?

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 19:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Luv,
The bolivans do chase the other fish away to protect the spawn, but nothing too aggressive. Actually the first spawn the parents did a good job there's just too many little fish (no pun) who want a piece.


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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At least they're not killing the other fish! I was warned that the kribs would kill the other fish if they were ready to spawn, never mind what they'd do after they were finished and any had escaped the first purge!
Are you going to have the 5g as a breeding and grow-out tank? You don't have to try and keep them all. I think it would be neat to breed them at least once successfully and raise some of the fry.
Other than that anything else new going on in the tank?

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Kribs and Bolivians are pretty far apart in terms of aggression. I had two kribs for awhile and after a week I had seen enough and returned them to the LFS.

Yeah, I'll probably start using the 5. A little concerned it might be two small for two bolivians. I'll have to look into that alittle more.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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You could get a ten.

Couldn't you?

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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luvmykrib,

If you could convince his wife he for sure would .

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Yeah, I'll probably start using the 5. A little concerned it might be two small for two bolivians. I'll have to look into that alittle more



Spare rocks, spare DW pieces, lot of clippings. No susbstrate necessary. bare bones. or use one of those coconut caves. like i said, they're proven breeders, i can't imagine aggression between them. if anything it may be post-breeding, when one wants to to guard the eggs... in which case you just move the other back to the big tank.


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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If you could convince his wife he for sure would

That pretty much says it all.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

We are sitting in the same boat

All I wanted for Xmas was a small 55G African Cichlid setup

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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We are sitting in the same boat

Yes we are. Sorry you didn't get the African Setup. I guess you'll have to keep working on it.

I think I might have scored some points by taking the two little kids away on a ski trip without the mrs. Little did I know how much work it was getting the two little ones in and out of their ski gear ever day, etc. Well at least we drank enough dark beer to make even Bensaf proud.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 22:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well at least we drank enough dark beer to make even Bensaf proud


You and the little ones?

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 22:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You and the little ones


Yeah Bensaf pushes diffusers and I push black & tans.
I should have been more detailed. My friend went with his "little ones" as well.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 22:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You guys are nuts... not that I am not being I beleive it takes one to know one... Sorry to hear about your fry. Who knows they might make it. I have a random Convict fry still hanging out in my 55G.

A 10G is really no threat. So small.. so little time and effort. Tell the wife you can make money doing it!

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 22:44Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I have a random Convict fry still hanging out in my 55G.

What else is in the tank?

See if I had a basement maybe, but when I setup a tank it's gotta go in the kitchen, den, bedroom. I actually have 5 setups around the house

72g - Kitchen
12g - Bedroom
10g - Kid's room (newt/fish setup)
5g - Den (setup for possible ram fry)
.5g - Kid's room (Betta tank)

Yes and every tank has some wisteria in it.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 02:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Lets see...

I have my rescued oscar...they had the poor guy in a 20G hex for a year and a half. M + F Con, Rainbow shark, 3 gaint danios, two B. Rainbows and a pleco.... I think thats it..

Ahh I see your problem... buy a new house...

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 03:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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You could sell some of the wisteria to pay for the new tank and sell the ram babies to support your fish habit.

It would be very profitable to make that wisteria available to those of us up North who cannot find any and have to make do with water sprite, a very poor substitute for wisteria.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 03:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Yeah Bensaf pushes diffusers and I push black & tans.


By that comment I take it you're a Guinness man. My estimation, which was already high, has increased ten fold.

Liquid paradise. There's eatin' and drinkin' in it.


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Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 08:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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By that comment I take it you're a Guinness man

Yes I am and then some.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 23:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thought this was a good pic showing my wisteria as a ground cover. This pic is taking thru the right side of the tank. The lower part is the wisteria pressed up against the glass.




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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 00:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Good shot of my E (cough) Stellata Group. The underside does have purple coloring but the top is mostly green. I don't think there's enough FE in Flourish, been dosing 15ml every other day. I will be trying a dedicated FE fert soon. Either way nice plant.




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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 00:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Pretty much full tank shot showing the reworked center. Everything trimmed. The E.Stellata has been brought forward and right behind the main rock with the rotala behind it. The stargrass now cascades over the left dw and rock.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 01:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Tetratech,

Wow your tank is looking great! My wisteria doesn't even come close but its on its way!! Look out for when i get my real Co2!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 01:41Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Wings,
I'm sure your wisteria will look just as good once you get the co2 going. Here's a full pic from the front.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 02:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
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I don't think there's enough FE in Flourish, been dosing 15ml every other day.


No, there isn't. Did you see this thread tetra? Turns out there's a lot less iron in Flourish than the online calculators (FertFriend, APC Fertilator, etc.) lead us to believe (only 10%). So 15mL of Flourish in your tank only gives you less than 0.02ppm of Iron (instead of 0.2ppm). 5mL of Flourish Iron gives you about 0.2ppm.

I just started dosing Flourish Iron in combination with Flourish last week (after reading the APC thread) and the difference in the red plants after just a couple of treatments was very noticeable.

-P
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 02:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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So 15mL of Flourish in your tank only gives you less than 0.02ppm of Iron (instead of 0.2ppm). 5mL of Flourish Iron gives you about 0.2ppm.
'


Thanks Upikabu,
I actually did see that thread and never read it. I would say that is quite a difference. All this time I was trusting the fertilator and I was only getting a 10th of what I thought I was getting.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 04:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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That actually explains why dosing Flourish Fe every three days my plants are still showing signs of deficiency! I figured because I have very low-light and no CO2 I would not need to dose as much or as often as if the light were higher and had CO2. I don't get the cloudiness though unless I dose more. But I don't have to dose a lot more to get the cloudiness, this is probably my high KH and pH.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 04:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Better shot of the tank this morning.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 16:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Looks beautiful and very natural tetratech

But, just like you, I have a hard time with giving unconditional compliments

It seems the Blyxa is not growing in. Is that because it gets shaded by the beautiful group behind it?

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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 16:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Riccia rocks looks great, that wisteria is amazing, it sur elikes your tank man. Good chatter above pointing out the iron situation with flourish, that's quite helpful to a lot of people.

how are the new cardinals doing, any losses?


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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 16:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks guys

Blyxa:
As bensaf noted is very light sensitive and I keep moving them toward the front because they do get shaded by the main group. Which I hate moving them because they are very sensitive. Also because of their so growth they are getting some bba on some of the leaves. I also don't know if the excel treatment is affecting their delicate leaves as well. To complicate matters further the bowfront where they are located is not the brightest spot in the tank.
I'm actually thinking about putting an additional light on the front of glass canopy to see if it has a better impact on any foreground plants there.

Flourish:
Yep, I'm definitely gonna look for a dedicated fe fert, any suggestions besides flourish.

Cardinals:
Beleive it or not I haven't lost one since I got the UV. I added 6 a few weeks ago all are good and I'm going to add another 6 this weekend which will give me a total of 21 on my way to 35 to 40.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 17:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

I can't wait for you to have a big school of cardinals. It will look super sweet to the max! Are you going to cut down on any of the other fish?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 23:21Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
SheKoi
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tetra - great looking tank

question - how do you keep the wisteria short? and so it doesn't look cut?

mine is about 7-8inches tall and growing quickly - i want it to bush out not up?

do i just cut it?

cheers Karl

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First off make sure you have wisteria not water spirit. Just cut it and replant the top. The old bottem will start regrowing again. This is the tetratech method btw. I use it and it works!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 00:08Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
SheKoi
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simple as that - cheers

i'll do some trimming tommorrow, while doing water change.

Cheers

Karl.

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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 00:17Profile Homepage MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks Shekoi,

What wingdsc said is true, I just keep cutting and replanting, but when you replant don't plant it straight up, plant it on an angle like 30 to 40 degrees this way more of the stem comes in contact with the gravel and will root along the stem keeping more of it down.

Also if the plant is growing fast, it only looks cut for a day or so because the new leaves are coming out so fast. When you cut and replant eventually the cut stems getting hidden by the leaves.






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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 00:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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SheKoi,

tetratech forgot to mention that he has a special whip to get the wisteria in just the right shape

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 01:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
SheKoi
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always with the whipi perfer the red hot poker myself - probably not much use in water

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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 01:17Profile Homepage MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech forgot to mention that he has a special whip to get the wisteria in just the right shape

O Ya, forgot the whip. I think they sell them on eBay.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 01:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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Brand? Style? I want to be sure to get the right one!

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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 01:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Brand? Style? I want to be sure to get the right one!

Tetratech of course. Not to be confused with that company that puts out the Tetratec line of aquatic products.

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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 01:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
SheKoi
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i couldn't find them!
http://search.ebay.co.uk/tetratec_W0QQfromZR40QQpqryZtetratech
sure they're on ebay - should look american site

www.blooming-brilliant.co.uk
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looks fantastic

how tall is that at the front?

how often do you have to trim it?

/:'

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EditedEdited by tetratech
It probably ranges from 2 to 4inches, but if you look at my tank from the front. The area in the pic around the driftwood is going up a hill so it looks taller than then it really is. My tank slopes up to the main grouping on each side so the wisteria looks like it's going up a hill.

The wisteria seems to be very no3 hungry. So if all the othe things are in place (light, ferts, co2) it will grow very fast. I trim different pieces every week to keep it looking like a smooth hill.

BTW - That search on ebay


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Send some trimmings my way! I really cannot find any locally, I ask and I get water sprite.

It looks really good though, I could just sit and stare at the wisteria.

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tetratech,

That is a very nice shot of the side of your tank. I like how the Wisteria creates a natural slope upwards towards your plant mountain.

And did something special happen in front of your tank while you took the picture? All fish seem to look out into that direction (almost all).

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And did something special happen in front of your tank while you took the picture

I was doing my daily tetra dance to keep the tank in balance. Don't most of you do a dance in front of your tanks to keep the gods happy and balance your tanks

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Count me amongst the apostates, tetra. During the green water plague my prayers for balance and clear water were answered with only more green water.

All hail the mighty UV idol! /:'


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Don't most of you do a dance in front of your tanks to keep the gods happy and balance your tanks


My fish usually hide in the darkest corners of the tank when I start to dance

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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 20:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Interesting,

My kh this morning was 2, it's usually 3. Which means if my ph is 6.2 than my co2ppm is 24 and not 37 at same page but a kh of 3.

This might be part of my bba problem.
I guess I'm going to start adding baking soda during WC.



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This might be part of my bba problem


I guess you assume this relationship because of the lower CO2, right?

Your lowered KH is a reminder to all of us that tab water conditions change, sometimes very rapidly

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I guess you assume this relationship because of the lower CO2, right

Yeah, Tom Barr seems to repeat this over and over again like religion. I have to assume he knows his stuff.

The only other wildcard is light. I was playing around with my light and tilted it toward the front. When I did this the front got much brighter making me realize even more the dark front the bow creates. It might simply be the reduced light is slowing growth and letting the BBA get hold.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
O.K. Here's the tank with the grouping of Rotala Wallachi I added today:





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Here's a closer shot of the Rotala W.

It definitely adds more color, but does it take away from the main grouping. I plan on keeping it about the height it is now, so the slope up to the middle remains.



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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 04:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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As you could see from this depiction:



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tetratech,

Looking nice

It is going to be interesting to see what the group of Rotala wallichii will do. Sounds like it will not take too long until you have to trim it already.

Tropica's description of it sounds very promising.

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Are you thinking of adding a second light? What type of light are you running now?

In my tank I just took off my glass lids because the hing was blocking too much light...

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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 15:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah I know another stem plant. I must be crazy.

Here's a pic of my Acer palmatum dissectum (Japanese Crimzon Queen Maple. Might give me an idea for a future scape.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 15:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Are you thinking of adding a second light? What type of light are you running now?

I'm running 192 watts (2.7wpg), but because of the bowfront the light intensity is weak toward the front, because the light sets on the back piece of glass behind the hinge.

How is your light suspended that you removed the glass cover?

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tetratech - Nice driftwood Chop it down

Wings - May I say CONDENSATION?

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I have a Coralife 130W so I have the legs on that sucker!

Maybe stick a small t5 set up on the front of your tank?

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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 16:23Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech - Nice driftwood Chop it down

My wife would surely have my head
Actually that tree is growing thru a 4 by 4 opening in my deck that of course is covered by the snow.



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Wings - Once again (in case you haven't seen my last entry on the previous page), may I say CONDENSATION? You are going to wreck the Coralife fixture. If I am not mistaken that Coralife explicitly states to use the fixture only with a glass top.

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Hey tetra, keepin gthe new rotala that height may become a pain, especially if it doesn't take too kindly to trimmings (i.e. wants replants all the time) I can see it growing a few inches higher, to the height of the DW, without taking away from the slope effect


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Maybe stick a small t5 set up on the front of your tank

I might do that, only problem is the inconvienence. Everytime I open the top I'll have to remove ther reflector.

I'll tell ya I might eventually decide to do a MH light suspended from the ceiling. The wife will love it in here kitchen

Nowher, I'll have to see how the Rotala W. does. Curious to see if it will keep it's pink color. It really looks alot like a pink Mayaca

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LF,

Thanks for the heads up with the glass lids...Going to have to do some thinking..Maybe I will just have some glass cut so I dont have the hing in the way.

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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 02:24Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
When your snowbound, not much to do but take some pics.

Here's some pics from above. First E.Stellata (or so I'm told) This plant was the best surprise so far from my online plant order. It has grown very well, both bottoms and replanted tops. Some have developed multiple leaders as you can see from the stalk on the right.



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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 03:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Next is the R. Wallachi from above. Nice plant for a LFS anyway. I'm cautiously optimistic.



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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 03:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here's a closeup shot of the main area of the tank. The rotala r. is alittle unruly but you could see the mound shape of the layout. My only problem right now is the foreground. I believe the blyxa and other foreground plants aren't getting enough light because of the bowfront. It's either that or co2 too low, so I've started added baking soda to bring the kh up a bit, but my gut know is telling me it's light related and slow growth is allowing the bba to take hold. Although if I have bba there has to be a cause which brings me back to the co2 level. So we'll see.






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Hi,
With the Rotala ind, turning pink, I would probably
suspect something other than the lighting. The Rotala
does not normally turn pink in less than favorable
lighting.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 08:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Frank,
Actually the lighting on the rotala I. and other plants I think is good, my problem is the light reaching the blyxa and other foreground plants in front of that big rock. It seems to be a dark area with the the current lighting setup because of the bowfront.

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Nice close-ups of the plants, tetratech

The Stellata looks very nice and full, should it change color soon?

And what are you doing up at this time of the day?

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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 12:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The Stellata looks very nice and full, should it change color soon

I really need to find a concentrated FE fert. I guess I'll try Flourish Iron for now.

Couldn't sleep last nite, worry about my blyxa and the 2 cherry shrimps I haven't seen since I dumped them in what a week ago.



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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 15:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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worry about my blyxa and the 2 cherry shrimps I haven't seen since I dumped them in what a week ago.


They're probably off getting ready to produce babies as cherry shrimp tend to do.



I understand about the rock shading the blyxa, but i think it's that and not so much the bow front. It's not as if the blyxa is right up the the front glass, it looks to be pretty much under where it should be getting light, it's just being shaded by the rock and the other taller stem plants.


Back in the saddle!
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I understand about the rock shading the blyxa, but i think it's that and not so much the bow front.

Yes and no I think. It's probably a combination of thinks. Remember the light is coming from above and right now when I look thru the top of the tank. The Blyxa are in the clear, but because the lighting fixtures resides on the back part of the glass canopy the only way to get to the blyxa is on an angle and partially thru the main group. My tank is 15" on the side with the bowfront pushing out another 3". Another fixture on the front of the canopy would solve the problem, but be inconvienent. The BBA also affected the hairgrass I had all the way in the front that wasn't shaded by the main group.

If the cherry shrimps are off breeding somewhere I guess between ram fry and shrimp fry I could throw out my fish food.




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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 16:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
I see the more forward plants are in the shadows. I think
you are right, either move the light so the angle is
different, or add another strip.

I tried both the Ghost and Cherry Shrimp. I even bought
the iodine that they need to supplement their diets, but
like you, I seem to have only enhanced the diets of the
tank denizens (Black Skirt Tetras, and Cherry Barbs).
As expensive as the shrimp were, I'll not do it again.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 17:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Frank,

The cherry's I purchased are quite small so I'm not sure yet what has become of them. I have so much ground cover that I bought a few amano shrimp about 4 months ago and didn't see them for weeks and then one day they appeared and are living in that center piece of driftwood with the moss growing on it. They only leave the driftwood at nite.

I find the amano shrimp to be bigger and more resilent than the ghosts.

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tetratech,

I saw 2 cherry shrimp for sale at my LFS this weekend and couldn't believe that they were even more expensive than Amano shrimp ($6 vs. $5 a piece).

Did you have the same experience?

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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 21:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,
I paid $3.99 each, 2 for $7.50, but they were really small. Maybe too small because I haven't seen them. I also haven't research shrimp that much. I don't thing they fight with Amanos and Ghost because I have both in my tank.
The Amanos are by far the biggest and the only ones I've seen munching on BBA and other algae. Ghosts really don't do much.



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Ghosts really don't do much


Except,

Die quickly.

They supposedly have a live span of a few months to maybe (just maybe) a year.

That's what I have heard,

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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 22:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
They supposedly have a live span of a few months to maybe (just maybe) a year


I did not know that

Actually this sounds pretty stupid but I bought 2 Amano shrimps and was so happy with them I went back and bought 3 more when I got home I realized they were ghost shrimps. I have seen 2 as of last week and I bought a few months ago so I guess they won't be around too much longer. The shrimps have totally different behavior. The amano stay on that piece of driftwood all day and seem to defend it against any fish that swim nearby the ghosts just run across the front of the tank all day. Maybe they die of exhaustion in a few months. And the cherry's either hide or became lunch. They were small maybe the fish thought they were "brine" shrimp instead.

Moral of the story is always watch what the LFS employee is doing because you might be surprised when you get home. A couple of times I got a few neons in with my cardinals.

Any LFS FP people, please don't take offense. Just like anything else, some LFS employees know their stuff other ones are just "there"



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And sometimes things just happen the wrong way...

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Did alittle trimming to the E.Stellata and the rotala r. to help reduce shade on the blyxa. For the first time I'm deciding whether I should replace my main rock to help with the lighting situation on the foreground.

What do you think. Keep it or change it to something shorter and maybe wider.



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Hi,
Actually, I think I like it where it is.
Frank


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I agree with Frank, it looks great where it is and the way it is. I also like the new trimmed look, the blyxa looks like it's getting a bit more light. You may wind up pulling the one closest to the rock a bit more forward if it's not getting enough light where it is though. It's your tank though so do what YOU like and what you think it NEEDS.

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tetratech,

That is a tough one.

On one hand I think the taller rock keeps the focus group nicely together and removing it can conclude in the group flowing into the rest of the plants and as such lose its destinction.

On the other hand, that flow might look very good as it connects all elements of the tank.

If you don't try it you will never know. So, you may want to think about the effort it takes to change it (and maybe change it back later), and if you conclude that it is not too much hassle I would say go for it

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Post InfoPosted 14-Feb-2006 11:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for all the comments. The rock is probably overdue for a cleaning so I might try to take it out and give it scrubbing and I could play around with some other rocks. I guess what I'm afraid of is a chain reaction and I'll end up adjusting different things to compensate.

LF, I see what your saying about the flow and that's where the above might come into play.

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Post InfoPosted 14-Feb-2006 16:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra,

Some change can be a good thing. I think you're right on track with taking it out to clean it and seeing what it looks like.

To me it seems like you're moving in the direction of adding more and more different types of plants, and with the wisteria taking up the real estate it does, and serving a purpose taking up that real estate, that's left you with squeezing all these different types of plants behind this one large rock, or around it. Something smaller will give you more room to play with different plant types and to scape the plants a bit more.

I guess what I'm afraid of is a chain reaction and I'll end up adjusting different things to compensate.


Isn't that the whole point?

But seriously, the wisteria is taking up so much space and you're not about to rip it all up, and you need not worry about lack of a hardscape because you still have plenty of it. I guess I'm saying, I don't think pulling it up won't ruin the shape and flow of your scape


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Post InfoPosted 14-Feb-2006 17:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
To me it seems like you're moving in the direction of adding more and more different types of plants, and with the wisteria taking up the real estate it does, and serving a purpose taking up that real estate, that's left you with squeezing all these different types of plants behind this one large rock, or around it.

Nowher, I'm going to give you another and answer.
I'm trying to experiment with more variety and your right most of gets squeezed into the middle, but if you look where I put the rotala w. I basically cut a whole right in the middle of my wisteria slope and put it there away from the main group.

My other variable is that this tank is in my kitchen and it has to look good most of the time, so I can't experiment too much. LF is lucky his tank is in the basement and he can probably get away with more. The other day my wife looked at my tank and said "Those flowers (pointing to the top of the E.Stellata) are really pretty" My response "Aren't They" The fact that she thinks those are flowers allows me to score points on my quest for more tanks (with flowers of course)

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EditedEdited by nowherman6
but if you look where I put the rotala w. I basically cut a whole right in the middle of my wisteria slope and put it there away from the main group.


I know, and it came as a shock to myself and I'm sure to all other followers of Tetra's bowfront log My only oint was - which I'm pretty sure you got - that clearing the big rock out allows you more room to experiment with different plants without compramising the overall flow of the tank. You even mentioned a few posts ago that the rotala w. will probably have to be trimmed often to keep it from disrupting the flow created by the sloping wisteria. Redoing the hardscape in the center gives you a little more freedom, IMO.

The other day my wife looked at my tank and said "Those flowers (pointing to the top of the E.Stellata) ( are really pretty" My response "Aren't They" The fact that she thinks those are flowers allows me to score points on my quest for more tanks (with flowers of course)


What can I say? You the man!




EDIT: and welcome back to premie land, BTW


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LF is lucky his tank is in the basement and he can probably get away with more

Hey, my wife looks at my tank too, about once a week

I didn't know that your kitchen is your showroom where hundreds of people march through to view the exhibited tank

Your wife knows that things take a while to look good, just look at food in the makings - not the prettiest display. I wonder if having your tank not at 100% display level would encourage your wife to give you more input on what could be improved. Then you have to make sure she stays busy thinking about it and before you know it she wants to have a tank on her own, to show you how it is done (wishful thinking on my part - doesn't work here either ).

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I didn't know that your kitchen is your showroom where hundreds of people march through to view the exhibited tank


Lots of foot traffic with three kids and friends.
Hey, my wife looks at my tank too, about once a week

I wonder if having your tank not at 100% display level would encourage your wife to give you more input on what could be improved.




Then you have to make sure she stays busy thinking about it and before you know it she wants to have a tank on her own, to show you how it is done.
pause, catch breath



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And look at all these Gold Stars



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And look at all these Gold Stars

What can I say

I added 5 more cardinals to my tank and I now have a total of 20. Another 100 I'll catch up to LF's major school.

Anyone know the difference between a school of fish and a shoal?

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If you look them up in a dictionary they mean the same thing. A school is no different than a flock, no different than a swarm, no different than a shoal. We just use different words to mean the same thing when describing different animals. You dont say a flock of tetras, you don't say a swarm of watter buffalo, and you don't say a school of birds.

Now, maybe there's some specific difference when referring to fish but in my mind if there is it can't be a good one. prove me wrong. Fish that like to be with eachother school, or shoal, whatever. Fish that don't, don't. I've seen people say on other threads, shoaling means the fish stay loosley together, schooling is when they stay tight; bunk! Bunk I say! If they stay tight together, it's a tight school, if not it's a loose school. Just my opinion of course, but you won't catch me saying a school is all that different than a shoal, no matter what.


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From my deep contacts within the intellectual fish keeping communities:

Schoolers form a tight streaming flow across a tank, and shoalers group together, but don't follow a pattern.

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A silly distinction to make, IMO. I can make my harlies form a "tight streaming flow across the tank" by sticking my hand in there and waving it around. Other times they're at rest and feel safe, they just drift about in a loose group. Are they schoolers or shoalers? Same thing with most fish we call schooling fish. Neons, cardinals, rasboras - "keep in a school of 5-6" the story goes, "because they're schooling fish". Fine, but when a group of these fish are at ease they dont flow from one side to another, they just hover. Sometimes they try to school with their reflections in the glass, especially when introduced to a new environment. The more friends and the closer they are to eachother, the better. Tight schooling formations are a defensive thing, when they feel safe they split up a bit, it makes sense.


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The only time my Espei school these days is when I move fast to one end of the tank. Then all shoot over to the other end and eventually half of them return while the rest stays over there for a while.

the rest of the day they are spread out (if that is even possible with 100 of them in there), the leading males fight over who is the boss, and the rest just "hangs" .

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Is it me or do fish school or shoal more in the evening.



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See,

I feed mine only in the evening and as soon as I approach the tank at that time of the day at least 80% of all fish are in the front left corner of the tank within a second.

NowherMan6, First Gold Star hm?

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EditedEdited by tetratech
From Univ of Montana Study:

Shoals vs. Schools

Shoal: a group of fishes that remains together for SOCIAL reasons

School: a polarized, synchronized shoal

In this definition a school is a shoal of fish when they form that tight pattern based on predators, stress, etc.

Makes senses

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NowherMan6
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In this definition a school is a shoal of fish when they form that tight pattern based on predators, stress, etc.


Ok, I can buy that but I still don't think it;s much of a difference, especially for the intents and purposes of our little tanks.


NowherMan6, First Gold Star hm?


Well look at that, I guess so Don't worry, I'll lose it next time I take the quiz


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Schoolers form a tight streaming flow across a tank, and shoalers group together, but don't follow a pattern

That univ defintions does blend with the original one, but I think the problem with the above statement it almost implys that we are talking behavior by species.

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Switching subjects, when I picked up my cardinals the other day I saw a 4" bamboo shrimp. At first I was like "no way I'm putting that in my tank", but now I am considering it. From what I understand they are filter feeders and just sift water for food basically. Probably good for GW

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Probably bad for your tank, or any tank that is

They will slowly starve to death as there is not enough food in the water column to keep them happy.

I think to remember that I read that somewhere

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From what I understand they are filter feeders and just sift water for food basically. Probably good for GW


If a 4" shrimp clears up a 72 gallon tank full of green water I'll eat my hat.

Definetely not my cup of tea, a shrimp that large should be served chilled, with a splash of lemon.


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They will slowly starve to death as there is not enough food in the water column to keep them happy

Well I would probably have to supplement with some food. But you bring up an interesting poing. Would the uv destroy some of it's food source.


Definetely not my cup of tea, a shrimp that large should be served chilled, with a splash of lemon

And I was going to have a tea party and invite you guys over. Nowhere your not going near my tank.

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Tea party? tetratech... I thought you were a liquid bread kind of guy!

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Post InfoPosted 15-Feb-2006 23:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tea party? tetratech... I thought you were a liquid bread kind of guy!

Absolutely wings, definitely liquid bread, but nowher brought up something about tea. I think tea and gouramis go well together - very graceful

BTW - Might be all the beer I've been drinking, but I think I see an improvement in my Blyxa. I've reduced height of E.Stellata overhanging the main rock and I've tilted my light toward the front of the tank slightly using rubber feet at the front the fixture.

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As most of you know, I'm going to try my aquascaping skills in an east african biotope. I think part of the reason for doing so is this tank. I'm actually pretty happy with it and although I will always be fine-tuning it I think for the most part I'm going to leave it alone. I will add more riccia to the front and try to have the blyxa fill in more. Here' some random current pics of different areas of the tank.



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Pic 2

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Pic 4

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Pic 6

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Pic 8

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bensaf
 
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Looking good

That "stellaromatica" is coloring up nice. Been adding some extra micros have we ?


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That "stellaromatica" is coloring up nice. Been adding some extra micros have we ?

You could tell right. . I've been dosing about 25ml 3 week of flourish combined with flourish trace. Still probably need more FE. Do you know another focused FE source other than Flourish FE?

stellaromatica
Yeah that's what it must be, a hybrid.

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tetratech,

I like the pictures number 2 (mixed school in formation), number 6 (new plant sprouting) and the full shot at the end the best

Yeah, seems to be allsettled there, except for the frequent pruning that you still will have to perform. Sorry that I can't pull even with the African tank, I am in trouble enough as it is .

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I am in trouble enough as it is

Aren't we always.

Don't worry even when I setup the 46g your still crushing me with total gallons. I think I need to move somewhere warm so I could have a tank in the garage.

Yes, I will have to prune alot, but it's not as basd as it seems. 80% of the bottom is made up of wisteria which I simply cut off and top that trys to resist creeping.
The Stellaromatic (as bensaf put it) is a thick stalk, so I think I have four stalk maybe five in all. So you just cut off the bottom and replant. The E.Aromatic has done really well. I only purchased one stalk originally and both th tops and bottoms have grown well thus far. But the top is very pretty and it would take a while for the cut bottom to look as nice. The rotala w. yes another stem, but it's in a very easy area to chop down. So that leaves me my original stargrass and rotala r. The rotala I've been replanting tops right now. I just don' want to take a chance so a little work there and the stargrass I did cut out all bottoms the first few times and replant, work there as well, but lately the plant has been given me multiple leaders so I've trimmed off the top right above the smaller lower leader and it's growing beautifully.





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mattyboombatty
 
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That looks REALLY nice tetratech, bravo.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Matty,
Thanks for the comment

Please meet the shoal, school, herd, oh whatever
I'm really amazed. I've acclimated in another 5 cardinals a week ago all are still fine. I now have a total of 20 and have not lost one since my UV was hooked up.


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EditedEdited by tetratech
I thought this was an interesting growth pic of my E.stellata .

The two stems on the left of the white line shows replanted tops that have colored up and have one stem each. The grouping to the right is the original bottom of one of the replanted tops. It has developed multiple stems from the thick bottom stalk.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Guys,
Did some trimming and wc today. I pulled out the two major stalks of E.Stellata you see in preceding post and I hadn't realized how big these things were because alot of the length is hidden behind the tall rock. Here's a pick of one floating in my tank after pulling it out. You could really see the purple color on the underneath of the leaves. This pic is not altered. The stalk also has numerous side shoots below the level of the rock.



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This are some fat stems tetratech

Why did you pull them out again? And did you replant them?

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Why did you pull them out again? And did you replant them

I pulled them out to cut off about 4" of the bottom and I replanted the tops. They were starting to shade the foreground too much. I will probably have to trim every week but because it's basically one thick stalk it's pretty easy to do so. So it's 4 cuts and replant - done.



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Nice,

So all you need now is a powerhead that blows the current upwards from under the leaves so we can see the beautiful reddish underside more often .

So, the general question here is (and it applies to my Althernanthera as well):
Why do some plants have leaves with red undersides? What is the point of this?

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Why do some plants have leaves with red undersides? What is the point of this

Bennnnnnnnnnnnn?

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EditedEdited by bensaf
Why do some people have blonde hair, heck if I know

In most red the plants the red color is a defense mechanism against bright light (hence the need for bright light to bring out the colors) it's some kind of change in the chlorophyll pigmentation.

Why are the red underneath, or purple, or silver - just to look pretty I guess


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maybe its so some fish wont eat it. The bright colored warning thing...???...??

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EditedEdited by tetratech
maybe its so some fish wont eat it. The bright colored warning thing...???...??

That could very well be, wings. Color is always used in the natural world as a warning system.

Speaking of bright light. I've pretty much concluded the front bow of my tank is not getting enough. I took a cut top from my E.Stellata and planted it about a week ago in front of my tank, closer to the front than the Blyxa where it isn't shaded from the main group and it really hasn't grown. The Stellata in the main group is growing great, which is right under the light. The bowfront design with the lights on the rear piece of glass isn't really reaching to the front. I believe that was a problem with the hairgrass and bba as well.



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tetratech,

Good idea, I guess that was a valid test .

Now that you know that, what are you going to do? Are you going to place a small light there as had been mentioned before?

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LF,
Well, if I want lush foreground growth I think I'll have to. My only problem is it will be very inconvienent. to have to lift the light everytime I want to get into the tank unless I could rig something that would lift the light when I open the top, but right now I can't thing that deeply about it.

I could install a hanging MH system above the tank, but that would be rather expensive.



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I'd leave the front open like it is, it looks good, and I'm a fan of a little substrate showingdon't misconstrue that if possible



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I'd leave the front open like it is, it looks good, and I'm a fan of a little substrate showing

Thanks! Yeah, I do like the way the black substrate constrast with all the green, so I'm probably not going to bother with a lawn on this tank. I've said this many times before. You can't be all things in all plants and fish in one tank, so in this tank with it's bowfront design this is what works. I would like to add a few more riccia covered stones that would add a little more green to the front but not take away the black constrast.


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Oh just read your post(same time as mine). Don't get a MH. You'll likely need two for a light spread big enough to cover both sides of your tank. This light really is much too intense for planted tanks, unless they are really deep. Plus they are expensive to buy, run, and get toasty warm.



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Matty,
Thanks for the inside info on the MH lights. I guess I'll save that for my one day 250g opentop.

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They do make legs for T5 systems. A t5 set up should give you the light that you need for just the front of the tank if you can make a 4' strip work.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks Wings. I'll have to look into that if I decide to add the extra light.

Almost got them all. Here's a pic of 19 out of 20 cardinals (unless LF could find the 20th)



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Not having much experience with shrimp, but I think this yamato shrimp is pregnant. The belly area is loaded with something. Even so, from what I understand the fry have to be raised in water with alot of salt and the calcium level has to be raised.



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The riccia continues to do well, although I think I might have seen alittle BBA. I did actually trim this rock a couple of times, but was alittle of anxious and I couldn't get anything big enough to use on another rock. So I'll wait alittle longer next time I attempt it.



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Tetratech,

Yeah, I count 19 as well
Plus 2 Rams, 1 Oto, 5 Pencils, 1 Rummy Nose, and one fish I cannot ID (in the center, above the Rummy and parially hiding a Pencil).

I also heard that Amano shrimp are not easy to breed in the community tank. But maybe you get lucky

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I only count 18.....where is the other one??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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also heard that Amano shrimp are not easy to breed in the community tank


They need brackish/ salt water for the baby shrimp to grow. Cherry's will breed in FW and can be raised in FW as well. Now if you can only find them...


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Yeah, that's what I thought. I fear the worst for my cherries. Haven't seen them. I don't think the Amanos would have eaten them, do you? I'm thinking maybe the Bolivians, they were very small.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Plus 2 Rams, 1 Oto, 5 Pencils, 1 Rummy Nose, and one fish I cannot ID (in the center, above the Rummy and parially hiding a Pencil).

LF, the hidden fish appears to be a blurred image of another rummy (see the tail) Actually almost all my fish are in that shot except (8/9 otos, 2 corys, 2 rummys, 1 card and 6/8 shrimp).

The store where I got my cardinals ($3 a piece ) has a great school of emperor tetras. I was tempted to add those in, but I feel they will just get lost in the tank with other fish I have of similar size and color. This store also has like 10 species of rainbows. As you could see from the cardinals prices he's very expenisve. I think he had huge bosemani for $40.

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Wings - Count the circles, 19

Yeah, the big Rainbows cost a fortune, tetratech. Remember that I paid for my juvenile Simple Neon Dwarfs $12, adults are $20. Supply and demand, man, they get you coming ad going.

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LF,

You the man!

My dwarf rainbows are 4 for $10.... that would be $2.50 each...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 21-Feb-2006 18:11Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Count the circles, 19

Now if you could find the 20th. . I guess he's off-camera. I have such a good streak going with the cardinals that I almost don't want to spoil it, but I will attempt to add 5 or 6 more by the weekend. That will give me a total of 25 or 26 assuming they all make it.



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Well wasn't planning this, but I was at one of my lfs today looking for some more shrimp (bought 2 more cherries and two more yamatos and this guy was all alone in the shrimp tank and I caved and said "I'll take him too" Nice little fish. It's a variety of honey gourmai, really nice color. I couldn't get the best pick, because he went into hiding, but now he's exploring the place.





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Another pic:



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NowherMan6
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Pretty fish, tetra

There goes the SA theme!


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Your right, this does it fishwise, but I already strayed with some plants species and of course the yamato shrimps, etc. If Amano does it, I guess it's o.k with me.

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Post InfoPosted 24-Feb-2006 03:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Welcome to the graceful world of Gouramies

I've got one of these guys, your's has much better color though Nice fish very peaceful , always on the move hunting for something.

Like the new siggie too


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Yeah,

I guess you couldn't resist the grace and charm of the Gouramies, couldn't you.

He (or she, don't know if you sexed the little one yet) looks very nice .

Now we need a mate

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Post InfoPosted 24-Feb-2006 15:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the gourmai commments. I guess there's nothing wrong with having alittle grace.

Yes, I do like the way he pokes around the plants and marches to a different beat then the shooling fish.

I think it's a male based on the color, but not sure. There seem to be a few varieties of this fish.

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I am not sure if this fish can be identified by the dorsal fin shape, but looking closer at your picture it seems to be rather pointy towards the back. This, in quite a few Gourami species, is a sign of a male. The female's is rounder and shorter, although the length is really kicking in a little later (IMHO).

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Yes, I do like the way he pokes around the plants and marches to a different beat then the shooling fish


Exactly. My sparkling gourami tend to do this little thing where they move along a certain invisible line, move forward an inch, stop flare their fins, then poke at the DW/ substrate/ plant. Move, flare, poke etc. over and over. They're also the only species I have that consistently explores every level of the tank.

Take LFs advice on sexing them, the only way I can tell with mine is looking for their ovaries with a flashlight


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Thanks Nowher, I'll give it a try

How big do the sparklings get, this guy only gets about 2". He's really not much bigger than my cardinals, just more graceful.

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He's really not much bigger than my cardinals, just more graceful


Sparkling gourami aren't that much bigger than my harlies. Actually, I think the harlies are more full bodied. The biggest is 1 1/4, 1 1/2 inches max. They also like each others company to a degree. It's very neat, like schooling gourami

It's funny, I saw one very similar to yours when i bought the sparkling gourami, again alone in a tank with bottom feeders. Maybe they don't get them in in big groups?


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Might be, they didn't have any sparklings, but they had many other gouramis. The store I went to Aquarium Adventure.(LF has been there) had a 50% off sale. So the gourmai was listed for $4.99 and I only paid $2.50. The yamatos where listed for $3.99 and only paid $2 so it was a pretty good deal.

BTW - Before I went to the store. I did see one of my cherries for the first time since I put them in, so I ended up buying 2 more.

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Well so much for grace. Once my kids found out that this is a honey gourmai they named it Winnie. The pic of winnie-the-poo with his his head stuck in the honey pot doesn't exactly illustrate grace. Here's a few more pics: Not a bad fish for $2.50.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
And another:



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Winnie will just be its nick-name. In secret you can call it by its real name, Butch. Though that's not very graceful either...

If anything, don't think of Winnie-the-poo when you look at it, just think of Winnie Cooper from "The Wonder Years." She never got her head stuck in a honey pot, so that puts her at least one rung up on the gracefulness ladder


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Thanks Nowher, I would definitely say that Winnie Cooper has grace.

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He's looking even better. They are very feline in their movements and the way they hunt about.

It's probably not an actual Honey Gourami ( Colisia? Chuna) it's more then likley a "Sunset" color variety of the Thick Lipped Gourami (Colisia Labiosa). They are often sold as Honey Gouramies.

Real Honeys are smaller and squatter like squat Dwarf Gourami with more of a red body and black undersides.

No matter, behaviour wise they are pretty similar the thick lipped will get bigger though.

He (and I'm pretty sure it's a he) will max out at about 21/2-3", but they take a long time to get there. If you can get a female they will behave like an old married couple and go everywhere together Very peaceful, they just hunt and poke about 24/7. They also become very very tame and in time will gladly swim into your hand. At least they are easy to move they swim right into the net

Great fish I've always had a couple in my tanks for as long as I can remember. I've got one in there now going on 2 years.


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Winnie also seems to have the perfect camouflage coloration for your plants. If he (and I also think it is a he from the latest pictures) hangs out just between the stems he would be in perfect stealth mode.

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Thanks for the comments on the new guy. I definitely enjoy watching him move about. I'll probably try to add a few.

Switching to plants. I've trimmed my riccia covered rocks twice and after the second trimming I'm getting increased growth and I might be ready to try and harvest enough to cover some more rocks in the foreground. Interesting that the riccia seems to be growing fine in the foreground with the blyxa improving by still not really growing (although slow grower). I think at the depth my riccia is growing it is considered high light.

Here's a current pic:



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Here's a full tank shot from tonite. The stargrass is growing almost too fast and it's presence is definitely too overpowering. You could also see a third rock is now covered in riccia in the middle of the foreground. It's a little too centered in relation to the others, but I plan on added a few more butted up against the new one to create a multi-level effect.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 04:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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A closer shot of the main grouping. The E.Stellata is really a strong growing and is starting to push some other plants out.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 04:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra, I have to say that full tank shot is the best I've seen your tank look

It no longer looks sterile. It has a warm full feeling to it while still retaining the shape and look you envisioned. There's much more interest now.

Is it just me or is the Indica the reddest it's ever been ?

I bow to you. Out of us all I think you have achieved the fullest most attractive growth on your plants

Give yourself one hell of a pat on the back.

For the Riccia it's not so much the centering that's the problem as that they go in a straight line. Groups of 3 like that should be done in a triangular shape. The center one should be further back or the the 2 on the sides brought a little forward. This will make a little triangle.
You can bring them a bit closer together too.


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Yes teratech

Looking very nice. I agree with you that the Star Grass is growing really fast and begins to tower over the rest of the center group. I love the closeup shot of that group, very nice that the caridnals also decided they want to be in the picture as it makes for a nice comparison of size .

One reason why the tank looks better now (not that it looked bad before) is in my opinion the fact that you managed to create a flow towards the center from your side groups, you did this in particlar well on the left side.

I am with Bensaf on the triangular shape thingy for the Riccia, but:

a) I wouldn't know where the 3rd corner stone shoudl go
b) I know this is only the plant's growout spot and you have a much broader vision for the Riccia

Anyway, looking very nice, but I hope that doesn't mean you declare this tank as done .

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Your making be blush

Bensaf,
Thanks! I'm glad your proud of your "young" apprentice.
It wasn't long ago that I almost quit with planted tanks when I couldn't fiqure out the problem with my old 46g.
The rotala has nice color. It is a deeper red than the E.Stellata . I've also been replanting the tops more which have more color than the bottoms so that's keeping the color fresher. I guess the UV isn't haven't too much of an effect on the FE because I'm running 24/7 and not even dosing a dedicated FE fert, just Flourish and Flourish Trace. I would love to get some color hues out of the Blyxa, but I don't think that will happen with the current lighting in the front of the bow.

LF,
In my tank I actually think the stargrass looks better low and wide and really cascading Once it gets too high it opens up to much and pulls the focus off the more colored group. In your tank as others have said I actually think the stargrass looks really good tall interwined with the wood. I'm finding hte riccia a dream to work with. As both of you correctly pointed out the current position of the 3 rocks in not great, so I could simply pick up the rocks and move them around with no mess in the tank. The hairnets are definitely the way to go, so much easier than using thread.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 17:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Looks great, tetra.

The only thing left is to go all out. Get a bunch more rocks and a bunch more riccia. Cover them all and make a big riccia beach right in front. The rocks will make it look like rolling hills in no time.


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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks nowher,
I'm definitely gonna have some fun with the riccia and rocks in the foreground

On another note: When I was taking some of my recent pics I shut of the filter because the flow was moving some of the plants around too much and guess what? I forgot to plug it back in. So my filter was off from 7pm last nite to around 8am this morning. What do you guys think will happen.

1. Nothing
2. Ammonia spike
3. Algae Outbreak
4. Both 2 and 3



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1

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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 18:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Man,

If you are lucky then number one will happen.

If not it may be 2, or 3, or 4.

Did you empty the filter first and rinsed the media (in tankwater) before hooking it back up? If so then I vote for No 1.

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Oh tetra, when your tank is covered in slimy brown staghorn and thread alage we'll look back and say that your hubris was your downfall. Reminds me of that famous ending line in Oedipus rex.

Most likely nothing too drastic will happen. Maybe ammonia will register, your tank is so big and full of plant mass that I can't see any major outbreak happening. Then again, this is coming from the guy who had ammonia present in his tank and didn't know about it, so don't take my word for it...


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Did you empty the filter first and rinsed the media (in tankwater) before hooking it back up? If so then I vote for No 1.

LF your right, I should have done this, but I'm full of too much hubris. .

I just checked my nh3 level and it was zero after having the filter running for about 4 hours. So if I don't get an nh3 spike does this prove that in a large well planted tank the biofilter contained in the filter is overated?

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
I don't even know what hubris is

Anyway, might be overrated when it comes to storage of bacteria.

May main concern would have been this "aerobic bacteria being converted to anaerobic bacteria based on lack of oxygen, which is poisenous to fish" thing. Not that I really know what I am talking about .

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Not that I really know what I am talking about


It's one of those things that people with experience talk about, but is rarely looked into but oft repeated by others. More knowledgable people than myself say this can happen, so I'll take their word for it.

But in anycase, the 10 pounds of wisteria in tetras tank provides quite a biofilter itself, so that huge amount of surface area in the cannister probably isn't VITAL right now. But when starting up a tank it's VERY important to have that space available, as well as space for AC etc. So while maybe we can say the filter isn't all it's cracked up to be NOW, this was not so when you were establsihing the right conditions for this wonderful plant growth to occur.


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EditedEdited by tetratech
the 10 pounds of wisteria in tetras tank provides quite a biofilter itself, so that huge amount of surface area in the cannister probably isn't VITAL right now. But when starting up a tank it's VERY important to have that space available, as well as space for AC etc. So while maybe we can say the filter isn't all it's cracked up to be NOW, this was not so when you were establsihing the right conditions for this wonderful plant growth to occur

A big yes! I think I mentioned in a previous post that if you stood my tank on it's side you would have a huge 4 foot wisteria tree that's has multiple levels that I'm sure is helping. That is what I'm talkin about mass,light,waste.

And a big yes again! The biofilter is a hugh part of setting up a new tank. And I use biofilter in the broadest of terms. Seeding the filter, seeding the substrate, adding large quantities of "weeds" both planted and floating.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 23:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey,

So I voted for 1 largley out of optimism. But I am wondering if the bacteria we use are really that delicate. That they couldnt survive a few hours of stagnant water?

Just wondering.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 23:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Good question Chaos,

Once the canister filter stops the bacteria are deprived of oxygen since the o2 filled water isn't passing thru and they die off supposely within 4 hours or so. I don't know if bacteria in an HOB can last longer.

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Oh, OK.

So stagnat water without contact to air is bad because there is no oxygen exchange? This is why the canister is worse than HOB in this respect? That is good to know.

Chaos

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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 00:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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Hi Tetratech, I had the same thing happen when I went back home for a week in the summer time, my filter clogged up and quit working, when I got home I basically did the same thing, started it up again, I only cleaned the impeller, not the rest of the filter. Basically nothing came of it. You may want to add 'cycle' or 'biospira' whatever you normally use, but if your fish are doing fine then I wouldn't worry. The plants probably took care of any ammonia that the bacteria in the gravel, on the rocks and the plants and the glass didn't get. The last time I went away I made precautions for it happening again. I set up an air pump and airstone by each tank and asked my Mother-In-Law to check on the tanks, if the filters quit she was to unplug them and plug in the pump, then drop in the airstone, this would keep the water moving and keep the bacteria in the tank alive at least, as well as provide oxygen for the fish to use.

I hope the same thing happens in your tank, nothing at all!

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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 00:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Luv,
So far I don't have any nh3 buildup or do I notice any fish problems. So I think I'm good to go

There's still plenty of things I haven't figured out yet. I mean I know what pearling is and too be honest my plants really don't pearl that much and the growth is pretty good although I don't consider pearling a true indicator of plant health, it's still nice to see it. Tonite I have alot of pearling on my stargrass as you could see in the pic below.






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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 03:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So,

Any guess why you have more pearling last night ?

What has changed besides the turned-off filter? If the answer is nothing then maybe you found a way to enhance the water-oxygen saturation by having filters off over night. This could be interesting.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 11:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Any guess why you have more pearling last night ?


The occurence of pearling is dependent on the O2 content of the water.
More fish, more O2 consumed, more bacteria more O2 consume.

Bacteria in our bio colonies are very o2 dependent, they use a lot. Tetra has already remarked on his preference for large bio media in his filter (a very good thing IMO).

Filter left off, a large die off in bacteria , less demend for O2 , water saturates quicker, more pearling. QED.

There was enough bateria on tank surfaces, plants etc, to prevent a major issue. Healthy plants keep the water clean and fresh. A dead filter for a few hours is nothing in a healthy plant tank. The system hardly misses a heartbeat. Lots of folks run planted tanks with no filter at all. Circulation and movement is more critical in our lovely planted tanks.


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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 15:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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....as LF adds another timer to have his filter go off for a few hours once a week

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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 16:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Another beautiful day in New York. One thing I've always enjoyed about planted tanks is that no matter how bad the weather is outside, within a few feet is a little tranquil tropical paradise (Assuming you have the protists under control! )



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Post InfoPosted 02-Mar-2006 18:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Tetra, you lucky...

Right now in midtown manhatten all we're getting is sleet and icy rain.

But alas, only a few miles away in LI there is a tranquil snowy winter wonderland!


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Post InfoPosted 02-Mar-2006 19:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Right now in midtown manhatten all we're getting is sleet and icy rain.

You and LF in manhattan....interesting

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Hey NowherMan6, maybe we should do lunch sometime.

I am in Midtown East.

I have no idea how the weather is at home (yeah - Joisey - tetratech ), guess I have to call the wife.

Ingo


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NowherMan6
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<--- midtown West side

Sure, sounds good... if only I could get out of the office more Starting to get busy around here, I don't know about anyone else...

Regardless, it's nice to know we can all enjoy our little tropical paradises in spite of the inclement weather.


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Using my thread to make lunch appointments are we. .



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Post InfoPosted 03-Mar-2006 00:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You are just jealous tetratech

You are sitting there way out on the island and the big city is too frightening for you .

Or is it Nowherman6 and I that are frightening, I don't remember

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Post InfoPosted 03-Mar-2006 01:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Or is it Nowherman6 and I that are frightening

I picture a Don Larson cartoon of Littlefish eating sushi with the protist collaborator. A very scary thought indeed.

Well the pearling continues unabated. This is by far the most my tank has pearled since its inception. This is not from a wc. The last wc was Sunday.

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Stargrass Pearling


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Pretty much this is a first, every species of plant I have in the tank is pearling. It honestly looks like I just did a water change. Here you could see a couple of streams of bubbles coming up from the wisteria. I did not prune anything either. These vertical streams are all over the tank to the amusement of the cardinals.





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Cardinals and Pearling


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Even the E.Stellata got into the action. Might be hard to see, but definite pearling.

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E.Stellata Pearling


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EditedEdited by tetratech
And lasty. I was really excited when I saw the riccia pearling. It doesn't get as much light as I would like down there, but it's defintely pearling

BTW - Notice the BBA on the rock behind the riccia. See I'm not perfect either. I do have BBA on some of the hardscape, but nothing to get into a twist over. The plants are just growing I believe too fast to be affected by it. I might start dose some excel again to keep it in check.


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Riccia Pearling


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Yup,

Nice pearling

I assume this means that for the first time your tank has a sufficient plant mass to drive the oxygen to saturation levels.

Or you have a hidden air stone somewhere in there

The Riccia seems to require some trimming very soon though.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Pearling continues at a frenzied pace. This is a closeup shot of my stargrass with reflection at the water's surface.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 06:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Are you using the glass diffuser now ?


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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 15:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Are you using the glass diffuser now ?

Yes sir

Very good point, I've been using several weeks, but when I first got it, it was so efficient that I actually reduced co2 alittle from a fast moving stream to a slow one, recently I did open it up a bit, because I've been dosing alittle heavier because of the increased mass.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 16:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Some fresh pics from today:

I think some of the add'l "interest" is the fullness of the grouping and how they are now layering over and into each other.

You could also see how the blyxa have started to get fuller as well.


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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 18:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Another closeup shot:



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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 18:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Good shot of the whole tank.
You could see alot of layer, also the colorful
E.Stellata is really exploding from
behind the rock adding more interest. Also on the left the wisteria wraps around and meets the stargrass as it increases in height.

BTW - This is before trimming and wc today. Ideally the stargrass should be shorter than the red plants in the middle.


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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 18:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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A final full shot further away.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 18:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
I am thinking you should pull the dwarf hair grass(?) and just wrap you crazy wisteria around your center grouping. It would make it simpler and more united. I am thinking about doing about the same thing with my wisteria in my tank.

Nice pictures BTW! Your tank has been looking really nice!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 02:25Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Still looking good. I won't say anymore, don't want to bring you unwanted attention from some of the more envious guys

If you could thicken up the Indica grouping a bit. The Stargrass and Stellaromatica are thick and bushy, be nice to have the Indica the same.


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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 04:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for your brief comments

Yeah the rotala needs to be fuller. I haven't really left any bottoms yet. Next time around I'm cutting the tops and leaving the bottoms.

BTW - Wingdsc that's blyxa in front of the rock.


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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 15:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ahh sorry!

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 16:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wingdsc,
No problem, sometimes it's hard to tell from the pics.

Anyway some bad news, not plantwise, but fish. My new little gourami didn't make it. I found it this morning.

I don't think it was water-related. The fish definitely had a hard time competing for food with all the schooling fish, but I don't think that's what killed it, because I did personally make sure it ate. This isn't talked about that much, but I notice a strong predatory response from my large school of cardinals. I did see them chasing and biting the gourmai. I believe when these schools get big enough they become bolder in numbers and take over a tank, in a smaller or similiar way that their cousin the pirahna does.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 16:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Interesting observation about the cardinals, tetra. I think you're on to something. tetras and rasboras and most barbs are regarded as peaceful fish in that they won't kill anything that enters their territory like a cichlid, and won't kill their own like some gourami and other cyps. But they do have a hierarchy and that madates some aggression on their part. I've also read somewhere about harleys being aggressive towards newcomers in their shoals, i.e. once a shoal has been established they'll sometimes reject newcomers. I'm sure there's a territory thing going on here.

As for the tank, it does look lovely

Just to further what Bensaf said, the red-circle areas below I think could use a top clipping/ replant to make them bushier, especially on the right. i think it's grown enough to give it a haircut, fill that spot out a bit. it should grow up again fast enough, it'll just be fuller. And I also really dig how the wisteria has grown up on the left side, it's like a little forest over there.

And Bensaf, come on man, grow up already. You're just envious of my ability to control my envy.



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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 17:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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This is before trimming and wc today. Ideally the stargrass should be shorter than the red plants in the middle.

Wow, you mean you guys don't read every word in my posts
These pics were before trimming and water change, so I agree actually with both of you.

Really liked the gourami, but maybe if I introduced 3 of them at the same time the results would have been better, but I'm not going to try to bring anything else in. I was thinking of adding a pair of apistogrammas. I think they can take care of themselves.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 17:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I was thinking of adding a pair of apistogrammas. I think they can take care of themselves.


Beautiful fish, and you have lots of broken sight lines etc., but would breeding rams and breeding apistos get along? Theoretically you have plenty of ground cover and hiding spaces for it to work, but in theory you should also have enough ground cover and hiding spots for a few ram fry to survive, and that's not happening to this point...


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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Beautiful fish, and you have lots of broken sight lines etc., but would breeding rams and breeding apistos get along? Theoretically you have plenty of ground cover and hiding spaces for it to work, but in theory you should also have enough ground cover and hiding spots for a few ram fry to survive, and that's not happening to this point...


Thinking same thing. Speaking of the cardinals again, I also noticed they were even more aggressive than the pencils when going after fry. I really believe the more are group of fish establishes itself in your tank the more they will defend that "ecosystem" as their own.
The apistogrammar which I would have to spend a future to get a pair I think will fear o.k. concerning all the rock work etc.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 18:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Sorry about the Gourami. At least you got to see how great a fish they are in planted tank.

Hard to imagine the Cardinals doing them in, but I've never had Cards. The Thick Lipped is about the most docile of the Gouramies, mine will let rummies snatch food out of it's mouth.

They are also very overbred to get that coloration which is not natural coloring, it could have been just a weak one.



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Post InfoPosted 07-Mar-2006 04:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks Bensaf,
I was rather surprised because he seemed to be well acclimated but I have noticed a difference in my cards now that there are 20 in the tank. I did see him get knocked around be them, but the possiblity exists that he was showing weakness when that began to happen.



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Sorry about the gourami, tetra.

I had a female betta that died for no apparent reason soon after I upped my cardinal school from 7 to 12. However in my case the cardinal number also dropped back to 7 within a week after addition, so perhaps the new cardinals had something that infected the betta too. I also noticed that the cardinals were "bolder" when they were in the bigger school, always patrolling the tank instead of hiding among the plants.

-P
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Thanks upikabu,

So you've seen the same behavior with a large school. In my case 20 cards where there before the gourami was introduced.

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O.K. since LF is back I guess I'll chart some changes.
I couldn't leave well enough alone and decided to move the rotala from behind the e.stellata and give the stellata the lead role and move the rotala to a supporting role on the side to the left of the rotala w.

I also did a major trimming job on the stargrass, as I mentioned I didn't like it taller than the e.stellata in the middle.

Here's the tank last week when I got some nice accolodes.





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And here's the tank today:



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Closeup of the foreground. Note the add'l riccia in the middle. I spread the riccia further in the middle forward by using a plastic grid and covering it with riccia and a hairnet.

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tetratech,

Looking very nice there

I like that the Stellate took over THE leading role in the main group. It has grace and color, just beautiful. The Riccia also looks nice, its light green goes well with the darker one of the Blyxa.

I skimmed over the previous entries from this week (too many right now to read in detail). Sorry to hear about the loss of the Gouramie. I have not any "bully by number" behavior of my Espei towards any new fish, but this may be because they are all larger and have no problem messing with the Espei. I am also thinking about adding a pair of apistogrammas to the tank, if I am ever done with planting the tank, that is . Do you think you may get issues with the Rams and the Apstios breeding at the same time? I could see that happen.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2006 22:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks LF and thanks for glancing thru my log. As you could see you didn't miss too much. Yeah I was surprised when I lost the gourmai, but as I said I've noticed the cards being very aggresive of late. Maybe they gain too much power in a large school. As I mentioned they are related to the piranha.

By the way some of these cardinals are quite large, pushing 2 inches. As far a the apistogrammas, I think the tank could handle the two types of cichlids. There is alot of rock work scattering around the tank and alot of ground cover. I haven't seen to many of locally, mostly some orange flame type for about $20 each.



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EditedEdited by upikabu
Tetra,
I just finished going over 25+ pages of this thread to get some info on keeping Blyxa (which you added while I was away on Xmas vacation, right before your first Ram spawning and around page 25 for those keeping track ) - need to put some drops in my eyes now. So basically what I can gleam from your experience with it so far: no shading & no moving it around. Is that all? Does it grow upwards?

I just got some for my tank over the weekend. It was an impulse purchase at an LFS and hope won't bite me in the you-know-where. I'm putting it in the background for now as they were tall stems with multiple side shoots and I didn't want to cut off the side shoots yet (no space in the foreground for them anyway). I actually quite like where it is now and may keep it there.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for having the info.

p.s. This place desperately needs a functional search tool.
p.p.s. I thought it was amusing to see LF declared a self-professed love for blyxa just from your pics (somewhere in page early 30s). Wonder if he's still got the love now?

-P
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EditedEdited by tetratech
So basically what I can gleam from your experience with it so far: no shading & no moving it around. Is that all? Does it grow upwards?

Well Background/foreground whatever floats your boat, but really I've never been one to say this is a background plant and this is foreground it really depends on your arrangement. In my 12gallon I have wisteria as my background and in my 72g it's my midground, but anyway yeah shade sames to be a major problem. It's a very fragile plant and could definitely melt if not taken care of. My blyxa is still holding on. I believe it will grow bushier with very strong light and taller with less light. Mine seems to be going more vertical than I would like because my light problem is compounded by my tank shape. The bowfront simply has pour light going to the middle foreground. It's also the only plant that does get alittle bba on it, because of it's slow growth. Bensaf has had it longer than me, not sure how his is doing, in fact he recommended it to me. I really love the texture of the leaves and I should probably put another light on the front top of my tank to see if it helps.




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Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2006 05:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well after a visit to my LFES (Local Fire Extinguisher Store) and $10 bucks later I'm back in the co2 business.

One problem fixed and another reappears. I noticed a spot on two of my cardinals pictured below. It's not ich trying to determine what it is. And I thought my cardinals were made of teflon.




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Hm, if it was just one I would say perhaps it's just a missing scale or something like that, but that it's on both in the same spot makes me suspicious.


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tetratech,

From the distance it looks just like NTD, but I am sure you would recognize that one. You say spot, as in something sticking on the fish or as in discoloration? If the first is true then could it be some fungus (or is it encrusted)? If the second is true then it still could be NTD.

I must be shopping at the wrong place here. My exchange bottle cost $30 (including tax) and is from a big welding supply store. But it is the only store around that I found.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
If the second is true then it still could be NTD.

Well whatever it is, it's even hard for me to tell looking close up I'm not planning on chasing the disease with meds.

As far as co2 refills, maybe the exchange program works differently, but $30 seems like a lot to fill a 5lb tank.
Maybe a piece goes to the crew in NJ - Bada Bing!


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Well, I have no idea where the money goes, but somebody is for sure happy to do business with me .

About the fish: I am with you on the no-chasing-the-desease statement. Let's see how it develops.

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Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2006 15:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks!

I should get my bigals delivery today:

Flourish
Flourish Iron
Excel

This will be the first time I'm dosing a dedicated Iron fert. See if I can make my avatar more colorful.

I might start treatment for BBA, although it's not out of control and is really only affecting hardscape. I'm also concerned of a negative effect on the all ready fragile Blyxa. I need to find if anyone else has had problems with excel and that plant.




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Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2006 15:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Just watch out with that flourish iron, tetra. I've had little outbreaks of hair algae in the past when dosing too generously. Bensaf will probably tell me that if I'm going to spread such crazy conspiracy theories I might as well go ahead and join the International Flat Earth Society while I'm at it... but a conservative approach can't hurt IMO

And LF, you're not alone on those bottle fill-ups. I pay $20 at the local beer distributor


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Post InfoPosted 15-Mar-2006 23:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Just watch out with that flourish iron, tetra.
Thanks! The bottle says 1 capful (5ml) to maintian .1 ppm
for every 50 gallons, so I dosed about 7ml this morning, along with my regular 10ml of regluar flourish so I guess we'll see what happens.

I guess I got lucky with the refill on the co2. I got it refilled from an old man who runs a small fire extinisher store and the conversaton went something like this:

tetra: I need a refill
old man: Wow that's a big canister ya got there
tetra: Well it's for a fish tank
old man: heh!
tetra: a planted tank, plants need alot of co2
old man: heh!
tetra: oh come on, you must get alot of that
old man: heh!
tetra: O.K, what do I owe ya
old man: got $10 bucks sonny
tetra: here ya go, see ya in 6 months
old man: heh!




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I never had a conversation like that with the beer guys. They never ask questions.

The best was the time a few weeks ago when i refilled the tank but hooked it up improperly and all the gas leaked out over the course of the week. So there I was the following Saturday, another tank to refill, same place, same guy who helped me. No questions asked though. I think they just figured I was a drunk.


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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 00:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I get mine refilled at a local gas supplier. A little Indonesian mom and pop shack that sells o2, argon etc.

They don't get many westerners in there I can tell ya

It was the same shock when I told the guy what I was using the Co2 for. Since then the pop has turned up at my apartment twice to see this miracle that the crazy foreigner is doing.

Second time was to inform me that he bought an aquarium, he took some plants from the garden and dumped in some pupuk, which is the kind of fertilizer you'll throw on your roses and attached Co2. Couldn't figure out why the water was green and his "flowers" and fish were dead.

I tried to help but while my Indonesian language skills are pretty good they don't quite extend to the finer points of planted aquariums.

I don't open the door anymore and am looking for a new supplier.


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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 03:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Second time was to inform me that he bought an aquarium, he took some plants from the garden and dumped in some pupuk, which is the kind of fertilizer you'll throw on your roses and attached Co2. Couldn't figure out why the water was green and his "flowers" and fish were dead.




If only he had used a test kit!


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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 03:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well there seems to be alot of protist collaboration lately. Some have done this accidently others have declared their outright love for the little guys and others have been rebelling.

Regardless of the reason the show must go on: This full tank shot shows the changes I've made maturing alittle. You'll notice the rotala r. now is on the right side next to the recut rotala w. The tank is actually alot easier to maintenance this way with the rotala r more accessible. The rotala and the stargrass which were recently trimmed alot are starting to come in, but have some more growing to do.



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tetratech
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Also this riccia stuff has really been a pleasant surprise. I actually find it very easy to work with inconjunction with the hairnets. Here's a closeup of the center riccia which is a combination of rock and plastic grid underneath hairnets.



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Looking very nice tetratech,

But first:

With regards to the previous entries.

Now to the tank. While on one hand I envy you for the completeness your tank displays on the other hand I am wondering what else can be done to the tank. I mean to say that your tank appears finished and there is nothing (major) left to enhance. Aren't you getting a slight feeling of boredom with nothing to do? As much as I would like my tank to be more presentable, as much I dread the day when I stand in front of it and think "what now".

Well, here are some minor questions/observations:

- The Riccia looks great. Given that you trim it outside of the tank I assume that the distribution within the tank of broken pieces is minimal. Did you find any pieces growing in your other plants yet?
- The Wisteria (in particular on the right) seems to develop a rather large leaf size. Is that just my old eyes or has the size (structure) changed?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 11:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It's always funny to see that one ammano shrimp sitting on top of that one DW branch. I know you mention it all the time, but still, there he is, sure as the sun rising

So last night replaced all the DW in my tank with new pieces that freed up some floor space for more plants and overall helped the scape. On the left side of my tank as you may be able to imagine I used to have that one suspicious piece of DW in there branching upwards. Well, i took that on eout and tried to mimic that effect with two a little bit thicker pieces. I stepped away and i thought, wow, that looks great!

Then I looked at the pic you just posted and realized, Oh, the reason it looks so great is because it's nearly the same thing that tetra did with his. Damn. Back to the drawing board

It does look very nice, and I like that the rotala has been replaced by that other large bushy plant. Same effect - adds a big spot of color - but much fuller


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Tetra,
Tank is looking really nice!

LF,
Scary thought of having nothing to change in a fish tank. I guess that's when you start a new one..

Nowher,
Copy Cat! I know what you mean though. After looking at each others tanks so much I think we star to play off of each other. It kind of goes back to does the real world represent the media or the meadia the real world.

(All I have to say for my currant situation is blasting black beard algae! It't not getting out of hand too fast but its just starting to bug me when I look at my tank close. I guess I need to make a rule where I have to stay at least 4 feet from it.)

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 17:57Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for all the comments everyone. The tank I guess is kinda complete in a way, but look I just moved the rotala r last weeek and I'm still tinkering with the foreground in the main area. Not sure how far I want to go with the riccia, because I do like the black sandy look and if I put too much riccia it will ruin that constrast, but building a carpet on top of rock seems to be within reach.

To answer LFs question about the riccia, yes it's easy because you just lift out the rock, trim in in a bowl of water and put it back in the same spot or move it around. It's actually fun to play with. The cut off riccia is then used to cover another rock and so on and so on. As far as pieces in the tank, yes there are a few pieces floatng around the tank, but nothing that is nuisance. Actually if you look close at the center dw where nowher spotted the shrimp you could see a piece of riccia clinging to it. I decided to just leave it. Speaking of the center dw I'm also getting the feeling that the moss isn't necessary and there would be better contrast with the green, kinda what happened in nowher's tank.

As far as the wisteria observation that LF made. It does seem that there are some bigger leaves on the right side, but I think this is a result of pruning frequency and where I made the cut. The right side get's prune more, but I think the support leaves under the leader have remained more if that makes sense.

Nowher, I wouldn't worry about copying my look. Planted tanks are rock, driftwood and those green things, rock and dw poking out of plants is gonna be in every tank pretty much so just do what works with your layout.

In light of wings comments I think a good theme song for the planted tank forum is "From A Distance" Bette Midler





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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 20:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
O.K. so I dosed Flourish Iron for the first time the other day. The bottle says dose 5ml per 50g to maintain .10mg/l.

So bascially without a test kit that means very little since I have no clue to what me fe levels are and I'm sure the test kits s&*#!

So anyway I dosed the 7ml plus 10ml of regular flourish so I get the other micros as well, but when I go the "Fertilator" and plug in the 5ml for a 50g it tells me that will give me .26mg/l That is 2.6 times more than the flourish bottle says, plus I dosed the 10ml of regular flourish which according to the fertilator gives me another .17mg/l. So based on my 72g tank according to the fertilator my fe level is .38mg/l based on the flourish / flourish fe dosing.

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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 01:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra,

Your sig has made your feelings on micromanaging macros well know to all - however, the question remains: how do you feel about micromanaging your micros?

From the looks of things you're quite open to it!


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 17:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Your sig has made your feelings on micromanaging macros well know to all - however, the question remains: how do you feel about micromanaging your micros?

That's pretty funny nowher, but a micro is a micro and a macro is a macro . Not that the .38 fe is incredibly high, but I don't like to go there in one swift dose. Actually the iron depletes very quickly so I'll have to fine a good daily dose. I think the fertilator is way off anyway.

Gotta go call all my LFS's and see what Apistos they have in stock.

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Gotta go call all my LFS's and see what Apistos they have in stock


Good luck to ya

LF certainly upped the ante in the Apisto wars with that move he pulled yesterday. Imagine that - going out and getting those pretty fish without even giving us 24 hours to catch up.. the nerve!


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 17:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF certainly upped the ante in the Apisto wars with that move he pulled yesterday.

Yeah well I guess he's living up to his sig

In honor of St. Patrick's Day I'm turning off my UV for the day .

All protist collaborators - As you were

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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 17:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Who's The Man?

I am sure that there are many ways you can beat that, tetratech.

For one thing, I am still in shock over my sudden loss of German Rams a few months back. So hopefully I will not suffer the same destiny here as well

Another option would be to get the same fish for half the price, that would teach me a lesson

BTW, Double Red Apisto Agassizi sell in the store for $20 a pair.

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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 17:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Double Red Apisto Agassizi sell in the store for $20 a pair

Why so cheap? Those are $65 a pair at Drs F&S, plus shipping

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1658


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 18:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Before I got my shellies a while back I was thiiiis close to buying a pair of a. cacatuoides. They, along with a few others like Agassizi or even Njessini, always appealed to me more because of their greater availability and the availability of F1 and F2 generations. It seemed like a big risk to take on a pair of rare but wild caught apistos, especially if things didn't turn out well. As it turned out, I wound up with the shellies, and then sold them because I was made an offer I couldn't refuse.


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 18:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The sales person explained it this way:

Supply and Demand!

They can have the Double Red every day if need be, not rare what-so-ever.
Mine, on the other hand, have to be ordered from a specialty fish wholesaler.

The sales person explained to me at least 3 times that this is the reason mine are so expensive. He wanted to make sure that I don't feel ripped off.

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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 18:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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But in all reality of things how much do you have into them. Did you basicly steal them because you traded in some of your fish that you may or may have not been planning of taken over your tank?

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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 18:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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O.K. LF, so you want to play rough.
Here's my breeding pair of Neocaridina denticulata sinensis ($5.99 for the pair)



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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 20:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very Nice ,

I cannot beat that as my breeding pair of Pond Snails did want to be in a picture

But seriously, glad to see that the little buggers are still around. One thing about this photo: I thought you had Moss only at the end of one piece of driftwood. Did it grow down on that wood to its base?

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Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 12:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
One thing about this photo: I thought you had Moss only at the end of one piece of driftwood. Did it grow down on that wood to its base?


Your powers of observation are quite amazing
You are right, that is not my 72g it's the 5g I setup for bolivan fry that I kinda started to scape. Details will follow.......

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Your powers of observation are quite amazing

Thanks tetratech

So, when can we see the 5G log? Even if it is not finished I would love to take a look at it.

And while you mention it, we haven't heard anything recently about a possible breeding attempt by your Rams. Wouldn't it be that time again soon?

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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 14:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So, when can we see the 5G log? Even if it is not finished I would love to take a look at it.


Yeah, let us know. I want to know when I should start up my 2.5 gallon log


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EditedEdited by tetratech
So, when can we see the 5G log? Even if it is not finished I would love to take a look at it.


Yeah, let us know. I want to know when I should start up my 2.5 gallon log


Don't we all have nano tanks in our "closets" somewhere.

Should be able to get to it within the next few days...

And while you mention it, we haven't heard anything recently about a possible breeding attempt by your Rams. Wouldn't it be that time again soon?

Havent' seen anything. Maybe they gave up after two failed attempts. Although I did see them really color up last week so they might have spawned but didn't care for the eggs. Still debating whether I should add the apistos.

BTW - Water change today and removal and cleaning of centerpiece rock. Yes there is some BBA on it - I'll update later with the exciting results.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Don't we all have nano tanks in our "closets" somewhere.


I got nothing

Would I ever not tell you guys if I would be working on a new tank ?

And I doubt that I will have a tank to enter the competition any time soon. I just cannot convince the wife that we really need another one . And I also think an overhaul of the 29G will have priority, but also not now.

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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 19:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Compitition? Fill me in! Of is the the game of the mini tanks? I have one too! Needs some help right now though. I have some dream in mind but I need to go rock hunting. I think I found some on campus that I like...

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 21:53Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Did a wc and cleaned my centerpiece rock. Look at the before and after.

I also just be coincidence developed a triangle going up from right to left, because I didn't clip the last stellaromatica stem on the left to make more of a mound shape.


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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 22:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yup, that for sure is one obvious triangle

Looks like you don't have much more time before you need some major trimming if you desire to maintain the "less is more" perception of the tank, which I think looks great.

How did you clean the rock? Just scrubbing or bleaching. Whatever it was, it sure made quite a difference. Overall,the triangular slope has reached a height where the mossed branch has been consumed. It seems like your tank does not only look nice but growth is also excellent all the time .

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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 23:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
How did you clean the rock? Just scrubbing or bleaching

I just scrubbed it with a stiff brush. I kinda like it alittle darker, but that will happen soon enough. After a cup cuts here and there I'm back to a mound shape (maybe a little more stargrass on the left and the wisteria needs to be a little shorter in the left back corner)

Right now I'm in a good space and I feel this tank is very easy to take care of.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 15:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I really like the mound much better then the triangle. It looks much more natural.

BTW go look at my pictures!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 15:39Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yup, very nice

I like how the Riccia shines in the front, with its much lighter green coloring (or is this because of the air bubbles that are trapped in it) than the rest of plants.

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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 15:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Riccia carpet, riccia carpet, riccia carpet...


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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 16:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for all the comments. A few more pics. First here you could see a compare pic from lastnite and this morning. On the bottom I clipped more wisteria on the extreme left and now the mound shape is even more obvious, simple. The ricca doesn't have the false pearling from last nite in the bottom pic as LF noted), but the riccia is still a light shade of green. You could also see the difference between pm and am as the leaves are more open in the bottom am photo.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 19:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Riccia carpet, riccia carpet, riccia carpet

Is that a challenge Protist Collaborator?

I actually thought of a good idea with the riccia, so I guess this tank isn't "done"

Here's a closeup shot of the riccia area in the foreground.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 19:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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And finally a closeup of the stellaromatica a la hudson.



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Post InfoPosted 20-Mar-2006 19:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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One thing I forgot to mention concerning maintenance. I recently removed two big pieces of hardscape to clean. My center rock and a few pieces of wood. These pieces have not been removed since I started the tank and I was amazed. No mess. I mean alittle came up but nothing that I even had to worry about vaccumming up. I reached a few possible conclusions.

1. I feed vary sparingly
2. Plants have been sucking it up.
3. Grounds crew has been working overtime (cory's, shrimp)



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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 19:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Interesting

1. I feed vary sparingly - Poor fishies must be starving if they don't even poop
2. Plants have been sucking it up - can be, but isn't the generation of mulm natural?
3. Grounds crew has been working overtime (cory's, shrimp) - I don't think they eat everything, they are rather picky with their menu

4. Larger parts have been broken down and fell through the gaps in your substrate further down. Do you rocks simply sit on the substrate or are they partially buried? Does something come up when you uproot a plant?

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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 21:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Larger parts have been broken down and fell through the gaps in your substrate further down. Do you rocks simply sit on the substrate or are they partially buried? Does something come up when you uproot a plant?

I'm not a big feeder. It's one of the most common problems with new and even some experienced aquarists. Less is definitely more here. Better for the fish and the tank's health in general.

I could be off here, but I'm wondering if the eco is better at breaking down this waste than say regular gravel


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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2006 23:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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My money is on ground crew. I'll be making a post later on this very subject. Just need to prepare some pics.

I'm getting envious from looking at tetra's gorgeous tank.

Time to pull out the big guns and show some pics of my own tank. I've been growing some Aromatica and Wallichii. If nothing else the pic will show tetra what Wallichii is supposed to look like . I've managed to grow it huge and bright bright pink

On the stellaromatica - I think I've figured that one out.
When I ent to the market (who know's these plants probably came from the same Indonesian grower Mr.Hudson buys from ?) They had , what from a distance seemed to be identical plants. But on closer inspection it was obvious there were actually 3 quite distinct species.
#1 was a much finer plant, thin almost transparent leaves with a very light pruple underside. I reckon this to be Limnophilia Aromacatoides (sometimes known as Gratiola ?).

#2 and #3 very similar in color and shape. But both had quite different growth patterns. One grew very straight and vertical with no branching. The other had a more angled 'leaning" growth and quite a few sideshoots. I reckon the vertical one to be the Broadleaf Stellata and the other to be Aromatica.

I would reckon yours to be (as it does lean toward the light and be more bushy) L.Aromatica.




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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 04:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Bensaf,
Thanks for the comments. I am not worthy and only an apprecntice to "My Master"

I'm glad I could intice you into showing some more pics and I look forward to seeing them. I would love to know your secret with the Wallichii. I've recut mine and it is starting to grow in better but certainly not pink except the very tip so I'm thinking it's a lighting issue, but I have a feeling you'll tell me otherwise.


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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 04:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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It's a very picky plant. Way more picky then Macrandra IMO. All rotals like nutrient levels fairly low but The wallichii in particular.

I'd say at above 15ppm it stops growing completely

I've been messing around with nutrients. Part of the reason I changed the plants a bit. I went so high as to stunt my Ammania. Nutrients were high enough to kill a plant, but NO ALGAE !

I find with really low levels it gets dark red, high and it's a dull brown. The pink color seems to be when everything is in the middle ground. Of course light is part of the issue, I've got it right under the lights. But to me the pink is more of a nutrient thing,light is more of an issue for deep red color.

I'm running at about the lowest levels I've ever run at , at present - about 10ppm No3.

The playing around told me a lot , particularly about K


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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 06:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The playing around told me a lot , particularly about K

What? That you need to dose "K" if you run N and P to low.
Yeah, that could be the problem. I've been running high for the stargrass and some others, now what to do? I don't think I'm gonna chase the Rotala W. by changing al my dosing. Have you lowered co2 as well?

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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 13:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
What? That you need to dose "K" if you run N and P to low.


Quite the opposite. If it gets too high there's problems. I've suspected this for some time.It's been quite the bone of contention in some places. But I mean really high.
It's a long story but if you're interested drop me a PM.

Have you lowered co2 as well?


Good God no Never lower the Co2. That's the one you don't play with. All bets are off has regards experimenting if the Co2 is off. 99% of the time what you are seeing is the result of bad Co2. It's the one given. Got to be up there no matter what.

Anyway here's a pic of the Rotala taken this evening

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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 15:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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bensaf
 
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Here's one from a different angle. Side view.

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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 15:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Bensaf,

Very nice and colorful, strong as well.

Looks to me almost like a monument, some form of dome or stoneage upright rocks.

I love it, but given all your commitments on running things low - nah, no way I am going to get into this plant .



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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 15:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Very nice Bensaf. That's certainly the way it should look.
So is this a case where "You can't be all things to all plants" I mean the stargrass is n hungry, my rotala r stunted when it was to lean in there. I have the aromatica a la bensaf growing insanely (I'd like more red).

Here's a pic of my wallachi when I first got it. It always cracks me up wheh my LFS sells hard to keep plants to "joe aquarist" who has no clue what they are getting into. Then the plant dies and the aquarist get's turned off. The store I bought this plant is a regular petstore nothing extreme.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 15:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Yours are not ugly either . Rather than a dome their tips look more like spot lights, a nice appearance as well.

And of course Mr. Shrimp has to sit on his branch . Are you sure he isn't a plastic animal from your kids

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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 15:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Nitrates seems to be the main one. It doesn't like too high. Up to 15ppm is ok. That's a fairly decent range that shouldn't harm the others. It doesn't like high K or Mg either but there's no reason for them to be high enough to cause a problem anyway. P , it could care less. Micros should be decently high also. So it's really well within EI range.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 15:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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So it's sort of like a (you know that white plant begins with an "M" where it's a good indicator of fert levels, even looks like the Wallachi.

LF,
No he's real, I'm not fooling you guys. I don't have the heart to clean that piece of wood. It's a heaven to the yamatos. All the good stuff falls into the are with the moss. When a fish comes to close, he even appears to swat at them.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 16:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Bensaf,

Fish in your second picture. Brillant Rasbora? Sweet fish. I now have 10 in my 40G. They almost never leave eachothers side. Love'm.

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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 18:20Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Brillant Rasbora?


I see a Pencil and a Hengeli in that picture

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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 18:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
The fish that is almost dead center in the picture?
like this?

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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 23:01Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Nope, Ingo is right, it's a Beckford Pencilfish. Although I do see the resemblance to the Rasbora.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2006 03:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Dang... I hate losing...

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Post InfoPosted 24-Mar-2006 04:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Not much new with the the tank. Here's a current shot that I happened to like. I think it shows how nicely everything is blending together. You'll also see some add'l riccia areas at the base of the main rock. It's kinda shaded down there so we'll see.

I'm still envious of Bensaf's Wallichii

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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 20:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Awesome tank!!! I have a 72g bowfront as well. It was my first tank and my attempts at landscaping it were lame, to say the least. I am going to do somewhat of an overhaul in decor, and now I am well-equipped with some great ideas thanks to you.

Excellent setup
Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2006 20:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetra,

What did you do for lighting for that picture. Things seem much brighter then before. Looks very nice!!

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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 06:41Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

from this angle the tank looks really full, in particular the main group. Is it reaching the top already? Looks very nice, seems like all you have to do now is to sit back and enjoy .

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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 12:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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rasboramary
Thanks for the comments. Good luck with your 72!

Wings,
No additional light, yet. I pic was taking move over the top so it made it lighter in the front. I am lending toward adding another reflector to the front to see the effect it would have on the Blyxa.

LF,
Looks very nice, seems like all you have to do now is to sit back and enjoy

Well, almost. It's about every 2 weeks the main group reaches the top. The Aromatica is definitely the easiest stem plant I ever had, because so much fullness comes from one thick stem. When I orderd the stellataromatica I only ordered one plant which was one stem, so everything is a cutting from that. So far it grows well whether you just cut the top or replant the top. If you leave the bottom you could multiple heads from the upper sides. Stargrass is still alittle work and the wisteria is the easiest way to take up space. It bascially can be shaped almost anyway I want it.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 15:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The Aromatica is definitely the easiest stem plant I ever had

Maybe I should give it a try sometime. I can imagine that you have to trim your plants rather often, with all this healthy growth. At least you have a situation where you don't have to wonder if trimmings will grow back in again as you have mastered this art for your collection.

How are the fish and what are the plans in that department?

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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 16:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Maybe I should give it a try sometime.

It's one plant I would definitely recommend if it works with your scape, which I'm sure it would. Stellaromatica for Apisto Fry -

Plants:
I thing I'm getting the trimming down to science, but we'll see. Let's also see if the rotala w. get's fuller, not sure if it will and I don't want to go chasing it with different fert schedule's etc.

Fish:
I haven't added more cardinals since I lost one, The two with the white spots seem to be fine and under closer examination it looks like it might be just a lose of color (I think nowher mentioned that).

I'm still thinking less species bigger school I think I'll still seek out an apisto pair in the near future.

BTW - I did lost an oto the other day. I saw it swimming eratically and I did notice bloody streaks near the gill areas, so I'm not sure this is co2 related since I have been pushing it to pretty high levels. All the other fish seemed fine.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 19:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Have you tested to see how high you have beeen pushing your CO2? I had mine up to about 50ppm before the fish started freaking out. Right now I am not 100% sure where I am at but over the weekend my plants grew like crazy! Some of them doubled in size easy. Algea is gone as far as I can see. Life is good in the fish tank world. Too bad school sucks! I will post some pictures of my tank a little later.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 01:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Have you tested to see how high you have beeen pushing your CO2?

I could be in that range, but who knows for sure.
I mean my ph seems to be around 6.2 and my kh is around 2.5 so that would give me about 48 ppm of co2, but it could just as easily be 6.4 ph and a kh of 2 and that would give me only 24 ppm.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 03:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I thought this was an interesting comparsion. Day 1 vs Today after a trim (Day 180 or so). The driftwood pieces have changed. Only one of the main rocks is visible. The rock to the left in the day 1 pic is still in there in the same spot. The hairgrass is gone and the Blyxa and riccia is in. Look at the small amount of wisteria I started with. Those were saved from the 46gallon brewery.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 03:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Isn't it fun to look at stuff like that? Your tank has come a very long ways. Not that it was bad to begain with but look at how much wisteria you have now! Wisteria is just sweet stuff. What other plant can you buy just a little of and with in a few months turn it into many.

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tetratech,

Yeah, quite amazing .

Having had the same basic layout the whole time allows you to go all the way back and make comparisons (something I cannot do), and what a change it is. Only over such a long time frame does one really see how much plant growth has happened all over this tank. Just beautiful

But - Did you remove some of the rocks surrounding the main group or have they been consumed by the plants (I don't remember)?

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 12:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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But - Did you remove some of the rocks surrounding the main group or have they been consumed by the plants (I don't remember)?


Out of the 3 main rocks. The one to the left of the big one is still in there in the same position as Day 1 it just got swallowed up. The other rock on the right has been changed a few times and there is a smaller rock in there. One of the reasons I removed that rock is I couldn't get plant growth to wrap around the front of the dw as it is now.

Another thing too about rocks. Sometimes even if the rock get's swallowed up as the plant grows around it and over it interesting contours are sometimes developed that give the ground an interesting look. You can't see it from the pic, but on the left the wisteria is overhanging rock from my beachfront(also partially swallowed up) creating a sort of cave affect (similar to Bensaf's tank).



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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 14:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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What it creates is depth...

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 17:42Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by Lindy
What it creates is depth...

Yes sir!

Anyway I saw this gourmai at pet***** (probably the crappiest petstore chain in my area. It looked just like the pic dark read with the grey/blue tail area. They had about 50 of them in a 10, so I was going to rescue a few. Anyone know anything about them. I can't go by what the shop says. What do I look for n sexing them?

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 18:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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They look like dawrf gourami to me.. tetra, an impulse buy?? I'm surprised at you!


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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 18:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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They look like dawrf gourami to me.. tetra, an impulse buy?? I'm surprised at you!

You know me well. I didn't buy them yet?

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 18:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Ohhh, I thought they were in your tank already. nevermind then

If they are dwarf gourami then males should be kept to a minimum to keep aggression low. I was never a big fan of their colors either, seems almost unnatural.

That's why i like the sparkling gourami - the ones I have left, two of the three I think are males, but they never even so much as nip, they sometimes have a "croak off", then one goes away. If you're going for the small gourami look i would consider sparkling, or even female bettas.


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Yup,

I also think they are dwarfs, the one in the back is called "Powder Blue" and is a strain of the regular one where the blue stripes are enhanced. The one in the front seems to be a strain where the red is enhanced (although I have never seen that color like this before).

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 19:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So should I go for it! I was going to take three. What about sexing them? Another related question. These fish are at Petland Discounts, otherwise known as the Fish Cemetary. So what I'm trying to say is there are dead fish in all their tanks. So should I buy these fish. I know I probably shouldn't. Every store has dead fish that are removed, but petland I think saves on food by leaving the dead fish in.


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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 19:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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So should I go for it! I was going to take three. What about sexing them? Another related question. These fish are at Petland Discounts, otherwise known as the Fish Cemetary. So what I'm trying to say is there are dead fish in all their tanks. So should I buy these fish. I know I probably shouldn't. Every store has dead fish that are removed, but petland I think saves on food by leaving the dead fish in.


Well, it's your call of course, but I would rather not express my feelings on that store lest I be sued

If you're really into the dwarf gourami I think you can find a better store for them. Check out the FP profile for some info:

"Gender: Males are brightly coloured, while females are grey."

So I guess that means they're all male if they're all bringhtly colored? I remember reading somewhere that females were hard to find...

"Comments: Best kept in pairs. Colour variation are Sunset, Neon, and Coral Blue. The Powder Blue variety is often found to be less hardy than the other varieties."

So I guess my final verdict would be, stuffed in a tank like that, with fish that are especially e to bringing internal parasites with them, I wouldn't be so gung ho about introducing a couple of fish that have been feeding off of eachother to my paradise

On the other hand, you did get your bolivian there, right?


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On the other hand, you did get your bolivian there, right?

Actually I got the bolivian at petco. I could direct you to a bevy of "I Hate Petco Websites" but I don't think you want to go there. I'm just expressing my personal observation about Petland Discounts. I believe I'm allowed to do that! Thanks for your input on the gourami. I think I might skip them

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I'm just expressing my personal observation about Petland Discounts. I believe I'm allowed to do that!


Yeah, you would think that wouldn't you? But remember there was that store a few years ago that sued all those people for libel when they posted bad things about it on an internet board... so you never know these days. I have stopped shopping at Petland discounts for the most part for the reasons you mentioned above.


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yeah, I think I recall that. Good luck to them, but I'll express my personal opinions anywhere and anytime I want.

I actually went in there for some small petrified wood pieces and saw the fish. I usually don't buy livestock there.

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Nah, don't get them.

That is my opinion.

I once liked Dwarf Gouramies, but now I find them boring.
And in 99% of the stores they are all males anyway, as females are rather dull (see NowherMan6's entry).

tetratech - Pearls

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tetratech - Pearls


tetratech - Sparkling, Sparkling, Sparkling

Ya know, not for nothin', but I hear Pearl Gourami are well-known for their dislike of Wisteria...


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...are well-known for their dislike of Wisteria


So not true, they loved the Wisteria in my QT (not to eat, to swim around).

Pearls, Pearls, Pearls - much more imposing and not such tiny critters that may be mis-identified as Glass Shrimp


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Ya know, not for nothin', but I hear Pearl Gourami are well-known for their dislike of Wisteria

I represent the Wisteria Growers of America. We are not happy with the negative comments you made about Wisteria concerning the dislike of said plant by Pearl Gouramis. I hereby order you to stop all negative commments until this is addressed in the proper venue.

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EditedEdited by nowherman6
Negative comments were not intended towards Wisteria, but rather towards Pearl Gourami. As a representative of the Sparkling Gourami lobby, I urge a full investigation into the habits and attitudes of said Pearl Gourami towards Wisteria. I further urge that the testimony of LF be barred from inclusion in any investigation, as his care for his fish is so exemplary that Pearl Gourami in his custody could not give, in the opinion of this lobby, an unbiased view of Wisteria.


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You guys crack me up!

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
We, the members of the PGA (Pearl Gourami Association), have contacted our legal team to evaluate which steps can be taken against the above mentioned "Sparkling Gourami lobby" as their denial of the undoubted benefits of Pearl Gouramis and their grass misinterpretation of Pearl Gourami love for Wisteria is causing our members tremendous grief.

The "Sparkling Gourami lobby" has never provided any proof of their claims and continues to upset the GOU (Gourami Owners Union) which clearly states that "Pearls are by far the most beautiful Gouramis available and don't harm any Wisteria (most of the time)".

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Resources: GOU handbook, 2004, Page 3


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The top one is a Thick-lipped gourami , Sunset variety, same as you had before. The coloring is not natural rather a selective breeding thing, so there's lot's of variety in the shading and coloring.

The bottom is, as mentioned, a powder blue Dwarf Gourami. I'm very fond of Dwarf Gouramies, I've had some for years.

I'm a big fan of gouramies as you know so I'll stay neutral. I'll be the Switzerland in this minor Gourami war. Pearls , sparling whatever rocks your boat.We'll just have to wait for nowher and LF to stop trying to hit one another with their handbags



I think the powder blues would have looked good in your tank personally. I find if you introduce a few males at the same time in a big enough tank they get on pretty well.

Another option that works well in planted tanks is female bettas. You can choose a color that goes nicely with the plants you are keeping. Very much like Gourami, except they prowl around the tank like a stalking cat.



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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 03:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Weekly update:

I did a major trim job after last week's waterchange. I've also been adding 5ml of Flourish FE daily on top of my 10ml Flourish semi-weekly and I have not really seen anything reddier. I might try putting my UV on a timer for evening only and see if it makes a difference. I did ask Seachem themselves and they said if Flourish FE dosed daily the UV shouldn't make a difference. Still have a "controlled" BBA problem that really only grows on hardscape and some slow growing leaves of the Blyxa. You'll notice the foreground has changed with the Blyxa being pushed into the corners because of the increasing riccia. I really like the way it looks on the rocks and understand now why it's so popular. I also find maintenance of it extremely easy with the removal of each stone for a haircut.



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Closeup shot of the rapidly expanding riccia foreground:



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Tetratech,

Again, the tank looks very nice (that's pretty much what I say every week for a few weeks in a row now).

I like your Riccia farm more and more as it is coming together now and not only one or the other rock in the front that has green hair. In particular, I like the group in the yellow oval as it creates the impression that it is creeping along rather than being isolated islands.

Ingo

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Riccia Foreground



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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 10:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks LF,
Yeah that part you circled actually is alittle thin still, once it get's thicker it will sort of form a wall on the inside edge of the rock beachfront with openings here and there of uncovered rock jutting out. It's actually fun to move the rocks around and see the effect.

One headache I have with the tank is the center piece of DW. Because of it's thickness it's a challenge to get bushy growth under and to the front because of shading. Right now the rotala r is in it's shadow.

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Right now the rotala r is in it's shadow


I assume it will not do too well there as it likes its light.

How about a group of Anubias in that shaded area? It could help breaking up the fine leaf structre of the other plants and function as an island in the sea of Wisteria.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 19:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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How about a group of Anubias in that shaded area?

Not a bad idea, but I think I've pretty much convienced myself that anubias does not look good in my setup. Although a much darker green than the wisteria, the flat large leaf shape of both might have something to do with it.



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Tank is looking nice! I think you could have a lot fun with the forground. You could have a nice lumpy/rockey medow.

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tetratech,

First of all, congratulations to the "Ultimate Fish Guru" status.

But now back to the Anubias question. Try to envision other types of Anubias as it seems to me you are focussing on the Nana shape. How about barteri var. angustifolia (''afzelii'')? Worthwhile to check out some images, at least.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
I continue to work the foreground by adding more petrified wood and riccia. Really like the contrast between the petrified wood, the riccia and the substrate. The tank is in need of a little shaping in this pic, but what I find interesting is that the wisteria behind the middle piece of DW isn't planted there. It is growing horizontial from a piece of wisteria to the right of the right DW.

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tetratech
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If you look at this closeup shot of the wisteria there is a big black space beneath it showing that the plant isn't rooted there.



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Well I think you've found your foreground ! Keep filling in the Riccia a bit more and you have a real stunner

Like the new location for the Blyxa too


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Thanks Man! I guess your seeing what I'm seeing. I just have to make sure the riccia is separated from the other plants by the rocks otherwise it doesn't stand out enough.



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I guess your seeing what I'm seeing


I'd just like to go on the record with this: I believe I was the first to point out how good the full riccia foreground would work in this tank. So that's LFs driftwood, now tetras foreground. You're both very welcome


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tetratech
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full riccia foreground

I think you said "riccia carpet" after I had already covered a few rocks in the stuff, but the history is all there in the posts, but I'll give you some credit.

On a different subject, I skipped two doses of macros last and kept up the micro plus FE dosing and I didn't see any add'l red in the wallachi, rotundala or aromatica. Maybe not enough time to test this. On the plus side I had no algae related problems either. This tank seems incredibly stable right now with the BBA receding as well. Anyone want to venture a guess?

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EditedEdited by bensaf
Anyone want to venture a guess?


On which ? The lack of algae or the lack of red.

Hell I'll tackle both

Algae: cleaning wood and removing mulm. Less organic carbon for the BBA.

Red: Light. The red coloration is a defense mechanism against strong light, the choraphyll turns from green to a red pigment. Let some hit the surface and see. Reduced macros,hmmm, see where you're going but remember intensifying red means low nitrates and high phosphates. That would mean somewhere about 5ppm No3 and 1.5-2ppm of P. Tight.



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Well,

I give all credit to tetratech, because no matter who suggested it first and who thought about it first he was the one who maintained his vision (something I don't posess) and made it real .

The tank looks great and even I believe I can see where you are going with it. Soon it will be time to enter one of the contests, if you haven't done so already.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
So about this red plant stuff.

I have Sunset Hygro in my tank. Most of it is green but the tops tend to get pink. I guess that it has to deal with the lighing thing then. I have no idea what my Nitrates are at. I haven't tested it since I got my kit about a month or so ago. So lighting would be my main key to get this stuff to color up then?

Oh fudge! to tetra! Oh you should hook up with LF and nowher at that fish store. It would be cool! I would love to do something like that but right now its not quite ideal.

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As I've said before, your tank continues to look nicer and nicer tetratech. I agree that a riccia carpet would be stunning.



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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 17:31Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Hey, FP friends thanks for all the compliments. I guess it's unanimious that everyone like the expanding riccia foreground. As I said before the addtion of bigger rocks across the beachfront was a big part of getting this look.

LF, thanks for the Ulimate Fish Guru comments as well as thinking my tank might be good enough for a contest, but some of those contests I see at APC, etc, blow me away. Althought professional photography and snaping that moment in time have a lot to do with it.

Once the hardscape is set, the biggest thing is the health of the plants. As long as the plants are full and growing quickly it's easier to experiment and get the look you want.

EDIT: LF I think your really going to like the diffusors, I get insane pearling now every nite around 5pm to lights out. I don't think I every got that with any other diffusion method.

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tetratech,

I agree, some of the tanks in these contests are awesome, but quite a few don't look as good as yours. From what I know, most first time participants don't win, but instead gain the knowledge of what the jury is looking for. Having a comment about your tank from one of these top notch people is quite an honor in itself (hey maybe Amano may say something about it).

I will try the diffuser on the weekend.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 10:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF I think your really going to like the diffusors, I get insane pearling now every nite around 5pm to lights out. I don't think I every got that with any other diffusion method.


Yup, once your plant mass increases enough that the plants start dumping O2 into the water pearling should really go up.


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Update:

Tank continues to stay extremely stable. No problems to speak of, more pink and red yes, but that's about it.




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Riccia continues to take the beachfront.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yeah, Bensaf I have Wallachi too, New York style () This is new growth after replanting.


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And finally a full tank shot:



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Tank is looking great! The beach front is starting to look more like a golf course but thats cool with me.

On the left side.... is that a moss covered rock or something of the sort?

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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 02:28Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Wings. On the extreme left is Blyxa alittle to the right of that is another riccia cover rock with a little wisteria overhanging it.

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tetratech,

I know it is getting boring, but the tank looks really nice, what can I say. All things are coming together nicely, a good flow of plants is given.

About the redding of your plants. I know that you add the extra dosage of iron to encourage more red, but it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. I think Bensaf mentioned it before, but don't these plants need (besides the iron) more light to turn red? Have you thought about expanding your high-light period? I guess the potential outbreak of algae that may go hand in hand with a longer lighting period could be a show stopper.

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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 14:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks LF. I'm currently doing the highlight period for about 6 hrs, not sure if another one or two will make the difference. I think it's more intensity than duration. I havent' totally dropped the no3 levels while keeping everything else high to see if it makes a difference. I did skip a dose of no3 midweek to see if it made a difference, but I didn't notice anything.



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I think it's more intensity than duration.


I think you are right on with that one. The Sunset Hygro in my tank doesn't start turning pink until its almost at the top of the tank. Maybe I will have to try something crazy like adding a second light to the tank just to see what happens. Being I have one around.

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tetratech - Just be careful. There is no glory in competing with me on who has more algae .

Wings - You are loaded with light (3wpg) as it is, why add more?

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Well, I must admit I am getting a little bored as my tank goes from interactive aquascape to a "picture on the wall" that needs a little dusting now and then. Not that my tank is perfect but as LF has pointed out there isn't that much to do. I'm certainly not going to rescape the whole tank, etc. After opening my big mouth about the african cichlid setup I've decided to shelve that idea for now, partly because I made a big mistake and picked up a reef tank book. Now I'm tossing around the idea of using my old 46 gallon for a small reef with lots of live rock. I just don't know if the african cichlid tank will keep my interest.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Oh no, tetratech is going to dissapear to the Dark Side

We will never see him again in this forum . I know Matty wouldn't mind having a buddy over there, he once in a while complains that it gets pretty boring in the forum.

Well, if you have to then you have to . But promise me one thing - don't bug me with these strange names of invertebrates and fish and equipment that they use on the Dark Side, it always makes my head spin .

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LF,

I know I already have a good amount of light but I was thinking of just messing around with having a second light run as a kicker for an hour or two. I want to see if this brings out the color in the sunset. Right now its not too impressive. I am not for sure going to try this but its just an idea. I am not quite sure I could get both lights on there anyway...

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Well, I must admit I am getting a little bored as my tank goes from interactive aquascape to a "picture on the wall" that needs a little dusting now and then. Not that my tank is perfect but as LF has pointed out there isn't that much to do.


Aren't we a contrary bunch ? Things aren't going well and we wail and scream and get tempted to scrap to whole thing and go back to a plastic castle and hot pink gravel ? When it goes well it becomes almost too easy - 2 mins of dosing and a weekly trim. We begin to long for the algae battlefield again.

But I know what you mean. I get that way too. One thing I do in all my tanks - I always have one little area that's got good light , in the mid-ground that can be accessed easily without disturbing anything else. And I'll use this to keep one species that I can remove and change at a whim. It's also got be a place that changing a species won't throw the entire tank off balance scape wise.

I change the species here quite frequently to try to keep things fresh and interesting. In the current tank that spot is where the Wallichii is now. A few weeks time , maybe even saturday if I go to the plant market and see anything nice. I can easily whip out whatever plant is there and put in something else without any disturbance. This allows me to try all sorts of different species, it's still a bit of acvhallage has you can't just throw any old thing in, it should still fit and work with the rest of the scape, but it is a chance to try different textures, shapes and colors. Keep it to stem plants though, nothing that roots to deep to avoid a mess.

Ideally I'd love to try completely different scapes especially the more minimilist types, different fish mixtures with the plants, paludriums etc. But it's too much trouble to tear down a tank every few months and I don't have the time or space for multiple tanks.

Salt is something I will try in the future. Heck I could collect my own coral and fish here in the tropics. It's a fraction of the cost to do here, probably only 20% of the cost in the US. Wife is always asking me to do it, she loves them. But I've always been drawn to the planted side. Long before I started in this hobby, and i didn't know the difference between a guppy and a rotala, the image that wlaways popped into my minds eye when I heard "aquarium" was of a nice planted tank with lots of wood and rock, it was never a coral with "Nemo" lying on it

Guess I must have planted tank genetics


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 04:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Ideally I'd love to try completely different scapes especially the more minimilist types, different fish mixtures with the plants, paludriums etc. But it's too much trouble to tear down a tank every few months and I don't have the time or space for multiple tanks.

I think we're in the same boat. I feel like if the 3rd tank was another planted tank I would still want that reef one and I couldn't have 4 tanks. I do have a 5g that I was going to fully scape, but I think I'm going to take that one down.

I really like the complex interaction that exists with a reef tank. So much going on between the fish, coral, shrimp and other invertebes, you just don't get that deep in a planted tank, but you do of course get that lushness and beauty and when the scape really comes together, WOW.

I guess I could keep one area open for change in my 72, but I think it's harder because the layout really swepts up to that one main area with the aromatica and the rest really supports it. The wallachi I have really is there on a sort of trial basis in terms of location, but right now I'm just trying to get the thing to grow better.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 04:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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The wallachi I have really is there on a sort of trial basis in terms of location, but right now I'm just trying to get the thing to grow better.


Well if you get fed up with it you could try something else. You may be surprised at the results.

Don't know if you saw the winning tank at this years AGA contest? Quite similar in layout to your own. A big central mound of stems and wood surrounding by low greenery. Where it really became a remarkable tank was by the use of one particular plant. There was a green lotus plant almost reaching the surface standing to the right (about where you Wallichii is now)and solitary. It's a choice that on paper shouldn't worked, but it did, beautifully What would have been a an excellent tank anyway was turned into a showstopper by the daring choice of a plant and it's location. It added a whole new dynamic to the aquascape.

Who knows you may hit on something

While yes the marine tanks are more complex in terms of their eco-system and have colors just not capable in a freshwater set-up, I don't think they have the dynamics of the planted variety. Lets face it the marine tank appearance is not going to alter much, rock id fixed so the overall shape remains the same. Planted tanks on the hand change shape and appearance on almost daily basis. The lines and curves and shapes that can be created with wood and rock and different textures and shapes of plants are much more appealing to me then a cliff wall of rock.

No marine tank will ever be able to convey the same feelings and emotions as an Amano scape is capable of producing. And that's the real challenge IMO. You mention you're tank beginning to feel like a painting rather then a living entity. Well that was always something I told you I felt about your tank, a bit cold and impersonal (it's much warmer now )

Really there's not much difference between the wall of rock and the wall of plants . The difference is when you create something that's more then a wall of plants. To me the best tanks always have secrets or mysteries. The tanks that when you look at them you get the sense that you are not seeing everything there is to see, that there are hidden areas you have to seek out and discover. Amano is a master at this as is Luis Navarro and Oliver Knott. They look great but yet you have a sneaky feeling there's something even better hidden somewhere, behind that wood or piece of rock.

I think that's what make the masters tanks better then the painting look. It's the little indefinable touches.

Think I overdosed on the philosophy pills today


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 08:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Think I overdosed on the philosophy pills today


That was my thought even before I read this line in your last 2 entries. But, I am with you, except I cannot express myself in such poetic terms .

It shows how much this hobby is a match to your personality. And how much you understand about it. I bow in respect,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 10:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Wow Bensaf! Have you ever thought about writing a book? This hobby of ours is much more than just keeping fish in a glass tank. It is more like a secret ever changing art form. I don't think a lot of people get that. People may look at our tanks and go "wow thats cool!" but I don't think they understand the vision and comitment that goes into it.

Look at pictures of my tank from this last August til the present. We have all come a long ways...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 22:13Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Don't know if you saw the winning tank at this years AGA contest?

Yes I did see it and yes the basic idea was the same, in fact I thing he even used stargrass as the support plant on both sides of the main red one.(Swear I did not see that tank when setting up mine). And yes, it was unusual the way that lotus rose right next to the main grouping almost in defianous of most aquascaping principals.

The think the tank was so crisp, so "perfect" that it was able to get away with that. It was almost like a zen garden where there was very little there, but what was there was powerful.





My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 04:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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This thank?

Looks much more like LF's tank but he was stealing stuff from you....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 06:22Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Wow Bensaf! Have you ever thought about writing a book?


Hell, I'm Irish we can blarney on about any subject.

You want eloquence you should here me talk about a subjevt I'm really passionate about - like Guinness


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 13:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Hmm... I think I just put sticks on the fire....

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 13:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You want eloquence you should here me talk about a subjevt I'm really passionate about - like Guinness


Please tell us a story Uncle Ben /:'

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 14:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Oh no,

tetratech's thread is about to blow up with one single entry of Bensaf's Guiness narration .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 14:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Please tell us a story Uncle Ben


Yes, a story! Tell us again about the time when, years ago, you were out drinking with Amano and after getting loaded on Guiness you went back to his house and he showed you his fish tank, and all it had in it was a crappy pink castle in the middle and you said, "no, no... I'll show you how it's done" and you immediately made it into that giant beautiful tank he keeps in his living room. That's my favorite one /:'


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 15:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
I don't know if you realized it or not when you started out
but keeping a planted tank, especially one looking like
the prize winners is real WORK.
When you guys started in on this it was all a learning
experience that allowed you to channel your inquisitive
nature and create something beautiful. Then along came
the algae, and later the battle with it and conquering
it, then came the CO2, and then the Fertilization problems,
and now you sit and stare at the tank appreciating
what you have, and now you still have all the energy,
and now you are looking for another challenge.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, could now
be branching off into the husbandry of the more
difficult plants. Perhaps creating "grow out" tanks.
Tanks of crypts, swords, or the Madagascar Lace for sale?
Read Diana Walstad's book and create one of them instead
of using bits and pieces of what she discusses. Building
the addition necessary for the new tanks, is also a way
to channel your creative juices.

You have found out what I discovered long ago. Once you
create a living picture, and you capture it on film, what
do you do next with all that energy? Amano built an entire
building and has a staff to continue with what he initially
creates and charges an admission fee, photographs and
writes books, gives talks, and goes onto creating more
tanks.
It's work, it's fun, and seems to create its own energy
that you want to continue.

Welcome guys!

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 01:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Frank,
Overall those are very inspirating words

Read Diana Walstad's book and create one of them instead of using bits and pieces of what she discusses.



Building the addition necessary for the new tanks, is also a way to channel your creative juices

Sounds like fun, but unfortunately my wife would have my head.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 03:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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No stories today boys. Going thru a hell of a time at the moment.

Even made the Indonesian evening news

No I haven't been arrested again

Was looking forward to a long easter weekend holiday. Left work on Thursday evening didn't have to be back until Monday. Got a call Thursday night that the second shift people at the factory were dropping like flies. Food poisoning from the cafeteria

All other management were on overseas leave, muggins here was the only manager around. Pandemonium ! More then 50 employess had to be rushed to hospital. Organisation is not something this country is world famous for
Had to close the place down and cancel the weekend shifts 'til we got a handle on things, find the contract caterer so I could kick his &nbsp; up and down Jakarta, fight off the press.Can you imagine the mess 75 people suffering from food poisoning at the same time makes ??? Luckily nobody killed, but still got a couple of guys in hospital.

Thank God, it wasn't the day shift. The big foreigner is famous for eating 2 or 3 of those catering lunch boxes everyday. I think I'll have lunch at home from now on !

All calmed down now so I'll be out working on some well earned alcoholic poisoning tonight


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 06:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Wow Ben!
Talk about the day from H...!
I'm glad to hear that everyone is going to be ok.
I gather that you will have new food vendors from now
on.

Tetra,
I'm glad that you took them in the spirit I intended.
Between you, LF and Ben we all have learned a lot, and
have been treated to some pictures of beautiful and
inspiring tanks, all from our own "FPers." We all reach
a point where we are just not "into it" and let water
changes slip, pruning fall behind, and just do nothing.
If we are lucky, algae does not gain the upperhand and
we can recover. Others, such as myself, are always looking
for new things to try, and new things to learn.
And, Yes, you are right about the wife. Mine is the same
way. Every time I get out the tape measure she knows I'm
looking for a place to put another, bigger, tank. Each
time I stop and measure, she is right behind me "No!"

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 08:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Wow Bensaf,

I hope the Easter Bunny is bringing you loads of Guiness-filled easter eggs
What a hassle!

Frank - I am months away from achieving the relative boredom of a finished tank, if I ever will. So, no time here to try a Walstad tank. Not to mention that I am in the same boat with you guys. The divorce papers are already in the wife's desk and will be pulled out immediately when she seems me unloading another tank (larger than 10G) from the car .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 12:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Been awhile so here's just a random pic of the tank. I have to say I think the UV is the key to keeping cardinals (in New York anyway). I still have 18 cardinals going strong after 4 or 5 months. I've only lost 2 of 20 since installing the UV.



Attached Image:


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 18:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Hard to capture this, but here's a shot of the co2 bubbles rocketing off my spraybar from the glass diffusor. I've been alittle negligent cleaning my canister filter and it was definitely slowing down the flow. This pic is after cleaning. The bubbles reach down now to the riccia and float back up about two-thirds across the tank.

Attached Image:


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 18:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Great to see the cardinals are still staying strong Knew that UV would be good for something besides the green water - do you run it full time still, or does it go off with the lights? I can't imagine you'd get any more GW with the plant mass you have.

How long did you go between filter cleanings BTW?


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Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 18:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yeah, been running 24/7. I was going to do it with the lights, but right now I have to add powerstrips to accomodate another timer so I've been lazy. I would be curious to see if shuting it off during the day would make any of my plants reddier. I'm still experimenting with macros for that. I've been dosing Flourish FE everyday and it isn't doing much, so I'm currently increasing po4 and easing up on no3 - we'll see.

I usually change the white filter pad and rinse the blue ones every month, but I went about 3 months without even opening up the canister. The withe pad was pretty much mush and the blue was pretty nasty as well.

EDIT: BTW on the darkside I think UV usage is primarily to kill pathogens to protect the expensive and sensitive fish and not necessarily to prevent green water.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 18:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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BTW on the darkside I think UV usage is primarily to kill pathogens to protect the expensive and sensitive fish and not necessarily to prevent green water


Makes sense... but who knows with those darksiders. Fixated on pink blobs and dirty rocks. Weird bunch they are...


Whoops, sorry tetra. Almost got carried away there, forgot what I read above, seemed too unbelievable...


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Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 21:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Makes sense... but who knows with those darksiders. Fixated on pink blobs and dirty rocks. Weird bunch they are...


Why I oughtta *shakes fish at Nowherman*


BTW on the darkside I think UV usage is primarily to kill pathogens to protect the expensive and sensitive fish and not necessarily to prevent green water.


True 'nuff. If you have green salt water things are so far out of wack that a UV sterilizer isn't going to help much.

Now I'm tossing around the idea of using my old 46 gallon for a small reef with lots of live rock.


Yay. Do it do it. You won't regret it I promise. I've been enjoying every minute of it. There's ton's of ways to tinker - lights, plumbing, sumps, refugiums, Deep sand beds, protein skimmers, feeding corals, uber colorful fish(lots of options in your tank btw), inverts....the list goes on.

What book did you get tetratech? I bet you could make quite a nice aquascape with those "dirty rocks" since I've seen your work on a planted tank. If you have any questions feel free to ask....we're not exactly bogged down over there. Or shoot me a PM if you like.

We will never see him again in this forum . I know Matty wouldn't mind having a buddy over there, he once in a while complains that it gets pretty boring in the forum.


Hehe....I stop over now and again to say hi, and bug you about replacing bulbs and things of that nature.

*shakes another fish at nowherman*



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 02:32Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Play nice with the fish! They don't like all the shaking!

Someday when I am not moving every year I might try SW. My girl really likes it. Not quite my thing so I guess I will have to let her do it or it can be our project.... something like that.... but if we are doing SW then we can't have a fish only tank. Going to have to have some of those infections that bensaf knows how to get rid of.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 02:56Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yay. Do it do it.

Well tanks alot Matty! I'll probably take you up on all the help your offering. I am getting more serious about doing it. I just need to relocate my 12g somewhere else and up goes the 46g. I was going to use my extra eheim canister and buy a hang-on protein skimmer. I want to really try to create something with the live rock. I have a AGA 110Watt 9325k cf fixture, not sure if that would work for the reef, so I might have to change that.

Oh the book I'm reading is "The New Marine Aquarium"

LF, don't worry my "roots" are still in planted tanks.


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 03:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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You should, it's fun. ESPECIALLY if your girl wants to help. Technology and reef system design has made it reasonably easy(though a bit more expensive) to have a successful reef.

Oh and leave bensaf out of this....you don't want to get rid of those "infections" at least when they are in the SW tank and are otherwise known as corals.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 03:19Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I was going to use my extra eheim canister and buy a hang-on protein skimmer.


Canisters are great for fish only tanks. You will most likely want to give it the can for a reef tank though. Nitrate factory. AquaC remoras and Coralife superskimmers are about the only HOB skimmers I'd even think about.

D'oh...I forgot the most important thing. The live rock will be your filtration in a reef tank. Along with converting ammonia to nitrate....it also has the invaluable property of converting nitrate to nitrogen gas. That's right, a well set up reef tank should have no nitrates, phosphates, or an excess of dissolved organic carbon. Unlike a planted tank, any one of these WILL bring about some nasty algae.

I have a AGA 110Watt 9325k cf fixture, not sure if that would work for the reef, so I might have to change that.


That's really not enough to keep anything but shrooms and zoanthiids, if that. If I were you I'd upgrade to T5 HO or MH lighting. If you go with PCs you will need to get a new fixture anyways, probably 2X 96W like I have now. With that you could probably do just about all soft corals, and some LPS near the top. I can get away with lps all over the tank because my tank is quite a bit shorter. I'm thinking of upgrading to T5s. reefgeek has some nice looking fixtures, or you can do a DIY kit into a hood. Just make sure you get individual reflectors for T5 bulbs, that's what makes them so nice!

Oh the book I'm reading is "The New Marine Aquarium"


Good intro book. That was the first one I read. Not too much info about reefs in there though. The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, though a mouthfull is a good book. Corals I think by Eric Bourneman is a good one, though very heavy reading. A little text bookish, though jam packed with info. Anthony Calfo's book of coral propagation is good too. For a fish reference, Marine Fishes by Scott W. Micheal is about the best out there. The same publisher put out a book called Invertabrates, which covers the most common snails, shrimp, crabs, and whatnot. I'd use the internet for figuring out coral requirement though, since this is an ever evolving thing.

whew.....I'm tired.

EDIT... links



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 03:38Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Bloody hell, you pop out for a day and come back to find that the planted forum has turned into Marine Central Evrybodywants to jump to the dark side. Where'd I put my light sabre ??


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 03:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Not me, I will stay in the bright light for a looooong time

Hard core planters


tetratech - the image of the CO2 bubbles bouncing off the spray bar: are the bubbles being pushed down by the spray bar (in other words, is the spray direction diagonally downwards)? I seem to have issues with way too many bubbles just passing by the spray bar and reaching the surface right away. Could you explain to me how you have it all set up?

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 11:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Hard core planters


Same here I guess, even though I was one toe stub away from trashing my whole tank, using every plant for seasoning in my cooking and selling the fish to market Cooler heads prevailed though.

Was curious about the spraybar myself, been playing around with my own setups...



Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 13:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,

I am having the same issue right now. I just added in a spray bar on the left side of the tank facing the right side(river system, kind of). I find that a lot of the bubbles don't hit the bar but go right on up. In my tank though I have a good hand full of exploding DuckWeed that traps in the bubbles.

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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 13:59Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
the image of the CO2 bubbles bouncing off the spray bar: are the bubbles being pushed down by the spray bar (in other words, is the spray direction diagonally

Yes, exactly Although my return tube is hanging over the left back corner, the spraybar is actually attached to the left glass in the middle via a suction cup. It keeps it very close to the left glass, so not much co2 is rising between the spray and the glass.

After cleaning my tubes and filter the other day the reach of the bubbles was even greater and I had unreal pearling starting at 4pm. I measured my ph just before lights out and it apppeared to be under 6 (light yellow on test kit)



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Matty,
Thanks for all that info. Sounds like if I OverKill on live rock I can get away with just a powerhead and protein skimmer? Is that possible with a light fish load?

I guess I'll have to start another log or PM you for more detail. I don't want to upside my planted tank comrades . They have helped me so much

Bensaf,
I must admit I'm alittle scared I might mistake the foamy protein skimmer cup for a cold dark one

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That's entirely possible with a light fish load. Sumps and fuge's are good though, at least think about it. They aren't too difficult to do, and the benefits are good.


BTW - you'll notice that the skimmate is not a frosty beverage at about 6 inches from your nose....eww, stinky.



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Matt,
You aren't kidding about the smell! I hate that stuff!

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I thought this was an interesting pic (or I'm just running out of pics to post.) It's a topographical view of my tank. It reminds me of a landscape blueprint where they use different symbols to represent trees, bushes, groundcover,etc.

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* trying to invision tetratech standing on top of the kitchen counter, one leg on each side of the tank, taking this picture *

* now I am trying to imagine how it would look like if I try to do the same over a 6' tank *

I love this shot. It took me almost one minute to understand from which angle I am looking at your tank. Once I got it I was really surprised to see how little space is available for the smaller plants in front of the main group. I always thought that this is a huge area. Shows how well you planted it

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trying to invision tetratech standing on top of the kitchen counter, one leg on each side of the tank, taking this picture *



Actually took off the top and stood on a barstool (completely sober) and took the pic from above.
You definitely get a different prospective. You could also see how shaded that front area gets since the light is resting on the back piece of glass. I would definitely need a light in the front to get good growth from the blyxa. Goes to show that riccia really doesn't need that much light.

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Something else this picture shows is truly how much plant mass you are running with. That picture shows that you aren't just making it look like you have the mass.... My tank might be the other way around.

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Full Tank Shot from this morning.
I've been dosing up po4 and FE and bringing down no3 in an attempt to get more red in. I think I see slight improvement.



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I never knew how aggressive the aromatica is. It really pushes everything out as it grows multiple thick stalks. Right now I let it go to the top but cut some stems toward the front to reducing shading on the foreground.
You could also see how surface of of my tank looks after running co2 for several hours.



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going back a few pages to look at the colors there is quite a bit of difference. Notice where most of the color is coming in though. Right at the top. This goes back to the plants defence use of red.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Notice where most of the color is coming in though. Right at the top. This goes back to the plants defence use of red.

Wings that's actually a good point, these two shots show growth over the last 12 weeks. Hard to tell if it's the change in nutrients or simply that the plant is closer to the top.

EDIT: 2 weeks not 12.




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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
these two shots show growth over the last 12 weeks
What - 12 weeks No way.

You didn't have that much Riccia 12 weeks ago, and various other spots in the tank also looked different way back when.

I guess you mean 2 weeks, right?

Anyway, one thing is for sure, plants are growing woderfully. Is there a point at which you will have to replant that whole center group or can you maintain it for a few months without doing so?

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Oops Yes I meant 2 weeks. Glad your paying attention to the details.

I'm still kinda feeling out the center area. The aromatica as I've mentioned is pretty easy because that whole center area is like 6 or 7 stalks with multiple heads now. The stargrass as you know is more work, but bascially if the stem has multiple heads I cut off the taller one, because whenever I think it's too tall. If there's only one head then yes I'm doing what your doing and pulling them out and cutting the base.

Lately It seems like I've been alternating weeks with trimming - One week stargrass next aromatica, but it really depends on what I see.



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That is kind of what I am doing too. Cut this one week cut that the next. You aren't changing too much at one time that way. Good catch on the details LF!

I will post some pictures of my tank in a bit! Better look out!

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Well since my last pic got lost. Here's a shot from tonite.
Didn't have the heart to cut the aromatica yet. This plant is a monster.







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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
This plant is a monster

I guess this is the time when you wish your tank would be much taller

Yup, tetratech, growth is as lush as usual, but it also looks like the Wisteria is maybe betting a little too full, can that be?

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but it also looks like the Wisteria is maybe betting a little too full, can that be?

Yeah definitely some areas that a revolting and try to grow vertically I guess I'll have to crack the wrap

Tank is definitely due for a major shaping although it has it's appeal this way as well, but I notice that the riccia is challenged this way.

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Didn't have the heart to cut the aromatica yet.

Tetra if you don't look out you are going to have giant hygro syndrome. Maybe you should have got the 80 bow?
Wisteria is maybe betting a little too full

The wisteria is looking quite thick. Here is the question though... Are you going to actually thin it out or just shape it by cutting it down.


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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 14:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra if you don't look out you are going to have giant hygro syndrome. Maybe you should have got the 80 bow?

What is that tank a little taller than mine?

The wisteria is looking quite thick. Here is the question though... Are you going to actually thin it out or just shape it by cutting it down.

What and mess around with my main biofilter. That's like taking live rock out of a reef tank

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What is that tank a little taller than mine?


Same tank just 8 gallons taller. Kind of tall for me though. It think they are the same hight as a 90 or 110.

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What and mess around with my main biofilter. That's like taking live rock out of a reef tank


To answer your question Wings, I'll probably trim a down and remove anything that doesn't look healthy in the lower levels. I'm not planning on uprooting or anything like that.

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That is kind of what I was guess.

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Did a major trim job on the aromatica list nite. These are the stems I couldn't fit in.



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Sell 'em baby!

And where's the full frontal tank shot?


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Sell 'em baby!

How much you think there worth? I think I payed $3.49 a stem online.

It's hard to get a good shot right now because of the sun in my kitchen.

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O.K. full tank shot comparing before and after major trim

Obviously the rotala and wallachi needs to be trimmed as well. The Wallachi is growing better since backing off no3 and adding more po4/micros, but it's still growing leggy so must be a light issue (Bensaf chime in any time)

One issue I have with my tank is the center DW. It's very wide and it doesn't allow me to "lush up" the area under and around it as much as I would like because of the shade issues.

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Nice cuttings. I would assume that you don't get more than $1.50 per stem in an LFS in store credit though. Not because they are not nice, but because there has to be a margin for the dealer. Maybe you get more if you have an established relationship with them.

Tank after trimming looks nice, but the picture comparison is unfair. It appears almost as if the Wisteria in the new shot is taller than in the old one. Eventually I figured out that you do not show the full height of the tanK (as there is no content up there).

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Actually in that pic I don't think I trimmed really anything from the wisteria. The stargrass and aromatica exhausted me. Hey maybe I'll get some algae for doing too much.

$1.50 per stem in credit - I'll take it. I actually started the whole aromatica thing with one stem.

How much for creeping wisteria?

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How much for creeping wisteria?

A fortune

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A fortune

Tetratech and I are going to be rich then. How much do I owe you again for your wipe?

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(Bensaf chime in any time)


Could be light. It also looks quite thin, you've never mentioned trimming it and looking by the pics it also seems to grow quite slow for you. Should be a real quick grower.

On the other hand your Aromatica is growing way better then mine Your's is much fuller and redder, mine is very wimpy compared to yours. Actually my new growth is coming out very bright green and almost white, may need a bit more calcium. Even right at the surface it's still green not so much as a hint of red.

I'd rather have the healthy lush Aromatica then the Wallichii, so I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.


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Tetra,
The big piece of DW on the mid-right. Did you make it more vertical?

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Could be light. It also looks quite thin, you've never mentioned trimming it and looking by the pics it also seems to grow quite slow for you. Should be a real quick grower.

Actually I've replanted the tops at least 3 times. Does look alittle better each time. Light probably major factor, but plants do adjust within a certain range to conditions, don't they?

On the other hand your Aromatica is growing way better then mine Your's is much fuller and redder, mine is very wimpy compared to yours. Actually my new growth is coming out very bright green and almost white, may need a bit more calcium. Even right at the surface it's still green not so much as a hint of red.

That is strange. I think I have more light than you, but why is your Wallachi better. . Maybe traces in your water supply favors one over the other?

Wings,
Sometimes the center DW falls slightly so when I readjust it, it might be higher or lower - good catch!

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Here's the latest full tank shot taken around 7pm EST.
I did a big trim job and water change on last Thursday before my trip.




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Tetra,
Tank looks really super great. Love the trim job!

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As usual, very nice tetratech,

To me it seems almost as if you are moving towards a triangular shape now. High on the left and falling almost in a straight line down towards the right. Except for the low area all the way on the left.

And - we need more Riccia

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Thanks!

No, definitely not moving toward triangle. I guess I need to get the wisteria and/or stargrass alittle fuller and sloped on the left. Not sure anymore how much the wallachi fits in. In terms of aestitics it would look cleaner without it, but we'll see. Here's a pic of the wallachi about a month ago and now. I'm trying to see if it's getting any fuller. Here to get a perfect comparsion but look at each stem.



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tetratech,

Nice comparison shot

To me, it does not look any fuller, when looking at each stem seperately. Overall, the gap between leaves seems about the same, the leaf thickness and length seems the same as well (although the new picture makes them appear thinner, as it was taken from further away). It definately is redder though.

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You might be right, Definitely alittle reddier. It might be wishful thinking, but I think I see more leaves between the nodes, but I might be

Here's a pic of the main center. My wife still thinks the aromatica tops are flowers

As the aromatica grows it grows horizontially and when the stem is exposed this way new headers come out. It's still quite full after all that trimming I did last week as new heads pop up. All this was from one stem originally ordered.

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Beautiful tetratech

Let her believe they are flowers, there is nothing wrong with that. Whatever makes the lady happy and associates her with the hobby is a good thing.

Well, not to be conpetitive, but all my Star Grass is from 4 rotting stems that I "rescued" at the LFS about 10 months ago, then had it in my 29G for about 4 months with little to no success (either to dark where they were located and also the platies see it as food), then it moved to the 20G where it grew strong for a while, and then one tiny bush of maybe 3 stems moved to the big tank - and you know how it is now .

I guess if you can wait out the period of multiplication and if your tank conditions are right one would be able to do this with all kinds of plants (although one would have to wait forever to grow a farm of Anubias from only one ). The problem is the "meantime", keeping the tank sufficiently filled with "weeds" until the desired plants are strong enough in numbers.

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Let her believe they are flowers, there is nothing wrong with that. Whatever makes the lady happy and associates her with the hobby is a good thing.

I couldn't agree more

Well, not to be conpetitive, but all my Star Grass is from 4 rotting stems that I "rescued" at the LFS about 10 months ago, then had it in my 29G for about 4 months with little to no success (either to dark where they were located and also the platies see it as food), then it moved to the 20G where it grew strong for a while, and then one tiny bush of maybe 3 stems moved to the big tank - and you know how it is now .

I find it very satisfying when that happens. A tiny little piece becomes in both our cases the center piece of our tanks.

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Here's a current pic from last nite. Not much new too report. Shading on the foreground is definitely an issue as I believe it slows growth and opens door for alittle bba to make it's way onto the plants in the foreground.

I'm also considering finding branchy lighter pieces and replacing the bulking driftwood I have. These big pieces also make keeping the center full of lush plants.



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Well it appears I'm having a log discussion with myself. Maybe its run it's course and it's time to start my darkside log Anyhoo I did make a few changes.

1. Removed large DW piece and replaced with smaller branchy piece. I found the original DW was producing a fair amount of shading and I already notice the riccia is growing faster after a few days. I will probably try to find slender left and right DW pieces to keep it similiar.
I might even replace the center rock with a somewhat shorter piece to help with light somemore.

2. Placed wisteria right to the edge of the center rock on both left and right. It makes the tank looker fuller I think and hides some stems.

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EditedEdited by slickrb
That looks really good. Removing the big piece of driftwood seems to make the tank feel more open as well. I like how you almost seem to make the westeria a carpet!

Looks good.



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Tetra,

Welcome to my world. I swore I was just talking to myself most of the time.

I really like the new DW. It looks quite nice. Any close ups?

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 02:30Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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tetra, buddy, how can we comment on perfection? I suggest you enter into a Zen-like state and appreciate the beauty of your creation... then start a new tank and new log of course.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 03:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for all the comments. Yes the smaller DW definitely opens the tank more and creates more opportunity to layer the plants.

tetra, buddy, how can we comment on perfection? I suggest you enter into a Zen-like state and appreciate the beauty of your creation... then start a new tank and new log of course.

Sounds good Nowher, but if I go into a Zen-like state in front of my tank that's in my kitchen my wife will be laughing all the way to the attorney.

Wings here's a closer shot of the center.


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Thanks for the picture tetra! Its very nice. I would add in some more pieces. Would look really great!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 03:51Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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An interesting thing happened when I tried to acclimate 5 new cardinals to my current school/shoal/herd/pack/pride (oh you get the point) of 18 cardinals.

I floated and blending in water over the course of 2 hours (too tired to do the drip method). After this time I netted two of the cardinals in the bag and put them in the tank. Within 30 seconds they were gasping at the surface. I immediately netted them back into the bag with the other three cardinals and within a few minutes they made a complete recovery.

The new cards were obviously reacting to the high co2 in the tank. It also didn't help that I was doing this right before lights out and the co2 was probably at it's highest.
All the other cardinals in the tank are fine and goes to show very clearly how fish can tolerate alot if changes come slowly over a prolonged period of time.

I ended up keeping the cardinals in the bag till 1 am (about 5 hours) while I did a 10% water change and waited for the ph to come up a bit. They were then acclimated and all are fine.

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Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 15:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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That is pretty true. A drip method would have probably worked best. Glad everything worked out well.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 23:39Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

I am so sorry to have neglected your log for that last few days, but I have 2 excuses:

1) I was rather busy with the collection of random thoughts (aka equipment identification) for my new tank

2) For some odd reason, your log didn't show up in my Active Threads and I basically assumed there were no new entries. I wonder if this is a random site behavior or if there is a rule for active threads that I am not aware of.

Anyway, you will not have to talk to yourself, we are here for you

I like the new look, it sure makes the main group appear larger. I am a little worried that the new wood is too short and may become less visible when the Wisteria is growing taller.

Glad to hear that the new layout helps the Riccia as I am sure that even more of it can significantly enhance the foreground.

That's it for now,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 11-May-2006 10:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well LF so nice of you to stop in. Can I get you something? Those are very legimitate excuses

Anyway thanks for the comments. Yeah the new dw is small and I am in search of some new pieces. It's amazing how much brighter my tank is. I might decide to even replace the center rock with something alittle shorter. If I don't like the way it looks I have plenty of pics to recreate the old look.

Excuse me as I go back to humming "Rainy days and Mondays"

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Post InfoPosted 11-May-2006 11:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Those are very legimitate excuses
Glad you see it that way

Anyway, I was giving your latest Cardinal additions some more thought. I am rather surprised that they would be gasping at the surface. Yeah, your CO2 may be pretty high at that time of the day, but shouldn't your O2 be very high as well?

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EditedEdited by slickrb
Ingo,

I'm not sure it works this way. Chemicals always move across a barrier from High Concentration to low concentration. When fish breathe through there gills the blood contains a higher concentration of CO2 than the water and thus the CO2 diffuses out. As you increase the amount of CO2 in the water that difference become smaller up to the point that they are equal. Once this happens the fish can not expel the CO2 from the body and suffocate. The amount of O2 in the water has no effect on the CO2 leaving the fish. That is why there is a ceiling that we can't pass when injecting CO2.

Now nature is a wonderful thing and Tetras cardinal's had seemed to adjust to the higher CO2 concentration but the new ones would have been shocked by it.

Hope that helps.


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Maybe it wasn't a CO2 or an O2 thing. Maybe it was just a drastic PH swing for them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 11-May-2006 15:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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So I took out all of my big pieces of DW (they needed cleaning anyway) and put smaller pieces in there place. Granted these are too small and I'll probably look for longer branchier pieces (maybe I have to call the other Jeff), anyway this give an idea of what the tank looks like with less DW. It's much lighter and gives me more room to grow plants. Look you could actually see my rotala again. Some of the stems that got caught in the large DW shadow have already shown improvement after only a few days.



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Post InfoPosted 12-May-2006 03:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Where is the super sized smiley with the shades? I need about 10 of them.

Awesome tetratech. I can't believe the difference in light you got from the change of driftwood. Does it look so much brighter in nature as well?

I guess very soon we will not be able to see your mid and background plants anymore as the Riccia will start to produce a bubble wand of air

It seems your Blyxa is rather green. This plant should also soon start to turn brownish/yellowish given the better light access.



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Post InfoPosted 12-May-2006 10:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks LF, I'll definitely be in the market for several tall, thin branchy pieces. The riccia already looks better, but not sure if there's still enough light to turn the Blyxa colors. BTW - The experiment with the Blyxa ended in my 12g. It did not grow with 2.2wpg, Excel and EI.



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I'll definitely be in the market for several tall, thin branchy pieces
Maybe you want to give "the other Jeff" a call .
It did not grow with 2.2wpg, Excel and EI
Uh, let us hope that around 2.5wpg and way more water (40G) will be enough for me to grow it.

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Tetra,
That last picture is really nice. I love the lighter look. It really shows your tank in a new light....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 12-May-2006 14:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Wings.

I'd like to see how it looks with some longer branchier pieces.

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tetratech
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I'll sneak in a couple of pics on Mother's Day

I feel like I've bascially created an attractive tank for my large and getting larger school of cardinals. The tank has nice plant mass, but also has alot of open space where I think the colors of the cardinals really show up nice.

I think I've captured 21 cards in this pic.

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Here's a full tank shot. I really like this shot for the colors in the plants. Now you could see the supporting role the rotala r. has taken on the mound without the bulkier DW in there. I will probably replace or add larger branchier pieces and might change the main rock to something shorter, but overall I'm pretty happy with this look.

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Wingsdlc
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Tetra,

Really great shot of your tank. It truly shows off the colors of the tank and gives your tank full justice.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 15-May-2006 02:39Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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but overall I'm pretty happy with this look

As you should

Besides having your tank being very pretty indeed, you also managed to get a show-like picture. All in focus, nice light, perfect.

In the last shot the rock in front of the main group actually looks nice. It creates a separation of back, left, and right, in my eyes a good thing.

The one scape entity that I still thinks needs work is the Riccia. It appears a little artificial and needs to grow in larger matts.

Very nice shot,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 15-May-2006 11:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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As usual, good observations and thanks.
That was an interesting catch on the main rock, although it breaks the green and gives some definition to areas I never really noticed it as clearly as your observation.

The riccia could be alittle fuller, but I'm actually happy it's growing in the shadow of that rock. As you might have observed, the rock has a sort of overhang to it. With the top right overshadowing the lower right of the rock. If you look down to the right side (where that cardinal is) you could see the riccia is actually growing right against the rock under the overhang. Considering it's fairly light demanding when grown attached to the substrate, I'm pretty happy it's able to survive in that area.

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THE TANK LOOKS AMAZING I LOVE IT...IVE GOT SOME GREAT IDEAS FOR MY 20 GALLON LONG AQUARIUM...SOON TO BE OOUT UP..oh sry about the caps didnt realize they were on till now lol ment to ask because i havent really read over everything but are you using CO2 and how many watts do u have on the tank?
Post InfoPosted 19-May-2006 19:34Profile AIM Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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bratyboy2,

Thanks for the comments. I have 192watts of light which gives me about 2.7 wpg.

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Post InfoPosted 19-May-2006 23:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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It's amazing how fast a tank can get out of hand. No LF I don't mean algae. You can put your tongue back in your mouth. .

I mean growth. This was my tank five days ago, Plants pretty much reached the top, but tank was looking good.

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Post InfoPosted 20-May-2006 02:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
And this was my tank earlier today. I am a little
This is the most I've let my tank go.
Look how dark it is under the main area.

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Post InfoPosted 20-May-2006 02:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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And here it is this evening after a major trim and I mean major. I took out alot of mass. Maybe I'll get algae (LFs tongue comes out again)

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Post InfoPosted 20-May-2006 02:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I had some really nice pearling tonite.
Plants pearl everynite, but today was exceptional.




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tetratech
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Cardinal a la aromatica:







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tetratech,

Your plants sure show some excellent growth

That was a major trim, your center group went from B52 to Skin Head

I like the close-up "Cardinal a la aromatica", besides the plants and fish it shows your increasing talent for taking nice pictures

Is that main rock showing some red algae on it, or is that its natural coloration (being petrified wood) ?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-May-2006 11:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Ingo,

That was a major trim, your center group went from B52 to Skin Head



Sorry no red algae, natural colors of the petrified wood.

I'm surprised you didn't see the add'l riccia cover rock in the foreground.

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I'm surprised you didn't see the add'l riccia cover rock
Oh, now that you mention it, yeah - I see it . Now you need a few more and let them grow in just a little and they will appear to be one carpet.

In any case, are you using really a hair net to fix the Riccia on the rocks?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-May-2006 15:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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In any case, are you using really a hair net to fix the Riccia on the rocks?


Absolutely. I think it's the only way to go. Think about it. If you use thread much of the growing riccia will not be held down and it will eventually float up. With the hairnet it's all held down until you get so much growth that it breaks away.

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Post InfoPosted 20-May-2006 16:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Oh, what the hell!

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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 01:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Your Tank looks great. I have one question... Can you please do one final run up of the total cost and fish and plants? Or is that too much to ask?

Chris
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Oh, what the hell!


When have the Boesemani been added to the tank? Was that this weekend? How many overall did you get? I hope more than 2, right?

Otherwise, beautiful

Ingo


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tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I hope more than 2, right?


They only had two, but I would like to add one more, although I think both of these might be the same sex and I'm thinking they are both boys. I'll need some of your rainbow expertise. If they are both boys, I'm probably better off leaving it at two being that I don't have the same for say 6 or 7.

Here's another shot:

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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 13:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'll need some of your rainbow expertise
Well, I don't have a load of expertise, but I would up the group no matter what. If my Neon Dwarfs are similar, then I think that the male/female ratio in these fish is not as important. I find that the dominant male is busy chasing all other males away from the females (I have currently 2f and 3m in the main tank, with 3 more males to follow from the QT soon). This leaves the females with much less stress than let's say with platies.

There is a clear visual difference in males and females in my Neons, and when you look at the web for this fish you usually only find males in pictures. What are the gender differences in your Rainbows? If they are easy to sex and you have only males then you could opt to get only males in addition (if you like to). Boys hanging out with boys tend to be much less agressive towards each other then when one girl come along (just like people).

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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 14:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks,

From what I've read the females are more a solid greyish color. If that's true these are differently male, because you could clearly see the half blue/half yellowish coloration.

I just got these yesterday afternoon, acclimated for 2.5 hours and put them in. I don't have the luxury of a QT but I have my friend Mr. UV to help. They started eating that evening and to my dislike started to aggressively chase the rummys around the tank. Only the rummys I haven't seen them chase anything else.

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and to my dislike started to aggressively chase the rummys around the tank
One more reason to up the group so they are busy chasing each other rather than a different species. Two have figured out quickly "who is the boss". But a group of 6 will have ongoing hierarchy "issues" as every day the group will be busy anew based on the short attention span to existing formations.

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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 14:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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One more reason to up the group so they are busy chasing each other rather than a different species




Well, I guess I'll observe them for a while, if they start to disrupt the delicate balance in my tank back they'll go to the LFS.

I'm getting a little concerned about fish load with these additions. I also added back in my black neons since the load was too high in the 12g. Since nothing dies it's almost impossible to by more fish without another tank or trading some in. The 12g has:

8 Gold Tetras
4 Black Neons (3 removed, 1 I can't %#$* catch.)
2 Kull loaches
3 Otos
3 Cherry shrimp
2 Amano shrimp

That was 22 fish/shrimp in a 12g. Now there are 19 and will be 18 when I catch the final %#$* black neon.

In the 72g:

23 Cardinals
8 otos
5 pencils
4 rummys
3 bolivan rams
2 bosemani rainbows
2 corys
Amano shrimp (don't know how many)

47 fish plus shrimp



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 14:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
(3 removed, 1 I can't %#$* catch.)


Come on - it can't be that hard to get a fish in a tank that is pretty much open. I usually chase them with a stick into the open side of a tank and wait with the net there. Then I corner them and - voila.

Try catching Espei in a heavily planted tank, now that is a challenge. I think you may try again during the next water change at low tide.

About the stocking: Yeah, I see that the 12G could have been overstocked. But for the large tank, how about this:

23 Cardinals - great
8 otos - even better
5 pencils - return to LFS
4 rummys - return to LFS
3 bolivan rams - 3? where did the 3rd one come from?
2 bosemani rainbows - up the group to 6
2 corys - fine
Amano shrimp (don't know how many) - lovely
4 Black Neons - return to LFS

Just thinking,

Ingo

EDIT: tetratech - did you see This Thread I Created?


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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 15:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks LF,

That restocking list is pretty much my thinking. Typo on the 3rd ram.

This is the catch-22 with the rainbows and why I mentioned they might be returned. I already noticed them nipping on my riccia mounds of which will not be tolerated. Putting big fish in planted tanks especially ones that are omnivores in always difficult. Now one could say if I feed more this will not happen, but I'm unwilling to feed in excess as you know, because I feel stronger than ever that this is a major problem.

So who knows I might end up with 40 cardinals, 2 rams and a clean up crew.

BTW - I did just see your thread. I've gotten into a bad habit of hitting my shortcut on my desktop that goes right to active threads.

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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 16:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I already noticed them nipping on my riccia mounds of which will not be tolerated.


Yeah, that is right, I totally forgot. You may remember that I once searched for an answer as to where all my duckweed went. Well, you may also remember that I figured that I thinned the group out during a water change and that the remaining ones could not spread faster than my fish ate them. And these fish would be the Pearls, and yes - the Rainbows. No doubt, if yours are even remotely similar then they will eat the Riccia, as it is a tasty treat

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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2006 16:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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They are both boys. Both are still very young. They will get much bigger and brighter. The yellow will eventually turn to an orange colored.

6 full grown ones may be too much for the tank. Rainbows are generally light on the bio load, they produce very little waste, but they will get big and are quite active. A male and female will spawn on a almost daily basis every early morning.

They do grow very slowly though. I've had a couple for years. After 2 years the male is still not full grown, but still bigger then the Pearl Gourami.

Male Boesmanii gave be quite feisty, they won't do any real harm but will chase smaller fish out of the way if moody. But if you try to add any small fish with a Boesmanii around he'll assume you are providing a tasty snack.

They don't touch plants as a rule but yers I've seen mine pull apart Riccia apart for fun when I had it, so much so I made a post about it, a good while back, in the Photo booth forum.

I like them but to be honest I wouldn't have them again unless I had a large all rainbow tank. That's were they look the best.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Bensaf,

I guess I'll decide after a few weeks if they are keepers. It was very against my fish purchasing instincts but I kinda wanted a centerpiece that would possibly make the cards school tigher, but that hasn't happened, in fact they cards seem scattered around now on the nonstop swimming antics of the rainbows.

BTW - I found your riccia salad thread but the pics were gone. Apparently your rams also ate the stuff, mine have never touched it.





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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
I kinda wanted a centerpiece that would possibly make the cards school tigher


Pearls seem to work for LF

EDIT: Dang! I'm sorry for taking post 1500, tetra


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EDIT: Dang! I'm sorry for taking post 1500, tetra


Don't worry, your worthy.

What I'm really annoyed about is this:

Bring back any memories Bensaf:

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It does.

Don't know why but they ripped the Riccia apart, quite deliberately. But I've had Riccia in the tank since, in smaller quantities but they didn't touch it. Either bored or the smaller clumps didn't attract them.

They are not the best choice for a centerpiece fish, way too active.

Deinately Gouramies would be a better bet, especially the Pearls.

None of them really work for getting smaller fish to school tighter. In the same way the fish figure the tank is a safe place and spread out, they soon figure that big scary fish that just arrived is in fact just a big wimp and stop schooling anyway.


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None of them really work for getting smaller fish to school tighter
Same experience here

The only time my 500 Espei school is if I scare them, either on purpose to see them peruse the tank (rarely) or during water changes when they flee from the vacuum.

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The only time my 500 Espei school

I thought espei were great schoolers. They don't school like Harquelins?


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They don't school like Harquelins


Harleys aren't great schoolers either. They just sit there and move a little bit. Like most groups they school mainly when the gravel vac is there, or something new plops in the tank.

Lazy cypranids


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Well tetratech ,

Here is my spin on the schooling:

What is the purpose of schooling in fish? Most likely security, "save in numbers". Also, social aspects, like "who is the boss" , may play a role, but less importantly.

Now imagine a tank where about every 3 inches away from you there is another one of your kind, no matter where you go (and I assume this is similar for most species of schoolers). Creating a tight formation with enough others is a matter of a second, alas the feeling of security is given all the time. On the other hand, if there are only a few of you scattered throughout the tank then it would take quite a while until a safe group has formed. In this case, it would be better to "hang" closer to each other, aka schooling.

So my spin is: there is a point where a school is becoming so large (in a tank) that there is no need to school anymore.

Food for thoughts,

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Harleys aren't great schoolers either.

Oh, I meant to shoalers.

But they don't scatter do they. I had harleys for about a year and they were always by each other's side.

Rummy's a good, but they looked washed out in my setup.



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LF,
I posted after you posted, anyway you might have a point.
I've always heard the more you add to a species the better they will school, but size of tank can have an impact I'd imagine.

It's funny one of the better LFS I have on the Island always puts little descriptions of the fish on a little sticker on the glass. Some examples:

Harquelin Rasboras - "One of the best schoolers"
Neon Tetra - "The fish that started it all, good schooler"
Cardinal Tetra "Beautiful fish, great schooler"

Dwarf Neon Rainbow - "New species"


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Dwarf Neon Rainbow - "New species"


Wow, I have a new species, I AM SO SPECIAL

Ingo


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Sad part is I almost fell for it as I pushed my nose up against the glass so see if they were different.

Very beautiful fish. I almost bought those instead of the Bosemani.

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Thought this was a nice shot. Tank almost looks like it has two mounds with the taller wisteria in the back.
I also like all the color (both fish and plants). I think its shows that the tank has depth and interest as well.



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My Dwarf Neon Rainbows are peaceful little fishies, never bother anybody but their own species (and that only with showing off), and their blue shine with the red finnage is very pretty. Maybe you should give them a try.

About your tank: Very nice, I like the slightly different angle you used to make this photo. I guess that is one of the advantages of a bowfront as the tank seems to change when you look into the curved glass from different angles.

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Had some time this weekend, so I decided to see how the tank would look with a different main rock. As you could see in this pic, I replaced the rock with what is actually two rocks which created an opening in between them.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's a full tank view:

This lower rock allows even more light to reach the foreground. I've also moved the Blyxa on the right side even more right to allow space to plant more riccia.



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Nice tetratech,

This rock makes the plants shine even more, although it is all rather green in there .

I would assume that you will have to watch out that this smaller rock will not be consumed by the plants. The Wisteria seems to thrive like mad.

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tetra,

What's that fish in the upper right corner-ish region of the tank - it looks almost like a yo-yo loach...


LF, love the avatar


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EditedEdited by tetratech
This rock makes the plants shine even more, although it is all rather green in there

What's weird is last nite I took that pic and the rotala and aromatica looked really red, but for some reason the camera didn't capture it on my usual settings.

Nowher,


That's funny it does look like a yo-yo, but believe it or not it's not even a fish, it's actually just glare.

EDIT: LF I'm surprised you didn't see the twig in between the rocks.



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LF I'm surprised you didn't see the twig in between the rocks
I thought it was a dead fish

Honestly, I don't really extract the pictures that I look at and search for clues under the microscope on how the "masters" have managed to build stonehedge . What is this twig for? A coat hanger for the fish?



Ingo

Oh, and don't forget to read about my latest issues with the 40G breeder.


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A coat hanger for the fish

Oh you bad. I think it adds intersest to the tank. I'm looking for a better twigh though.

A dead fish in my tank. I don't think so.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Although green, my Blyxa have definitely started to look healther and no more BBA since I removed some shading.



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But I didn't expect this:



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Hi tetratech

As always, your tank is beautiful. What is the plant called in the picture with the twig. Not the wisteria, the plant that is above rock / twig arrangement? Will it grow in low/medium light, or does it require high light?

thanks,
Robyn


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Thanks Robyn,

The plant right above the main rock is Limnophila aromatica. It was sold to me as Eusteralis stellata, but the popular opinion is that it's the aromatic. It is bordered by Stargrass on either side. This tank has 2.7wgp and it grows like a monster. It's actually more colorful than the last pic. (if you go back in the log you'll see more colorful shots).

I also have it growing in my 12g which has only 2.2wpg. It grows fine, but not as lush. Like alot of colorful plants, more light usually means more color.



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But I didn't expect this:


Is this:

a) A CO2 bubble stuck on a leaf?
b) Pearling?
c) Fish Exhaust?



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I believe it's "B".

fish exhaust

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I believe it's "B".

Sure it is, I was just pulling your strings . You dont think it was funny ? I guess I will have to try harder the next time around .

BTW, my Blyxa is the most static plant (besides the Isoetes Lacustris) that I have ever seen.I don't think they have grown at all in the almost 4 weeks since I added them to the tank.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
No it was funny, I guess I wasn't totally focusing. Here
s my belated laugh

Yes the Blyxa is really stagnet. As you can see mine are still very much alive, but haven't done much that's why I was amazed at the pearl. I'm starting to think it demands extremely high light to actually grow. Although in my tank with all the stems in a way it's welcome relief.

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Thanks for the belated laugh

I think you are very right about the extreme high light. The guy I bought the Blyxa from has it growing in his 125G. He has an overall lighting period of 9 or 10 hours and high lights for 6 of them. And he has the same light than I do, means 6 hours in over 3wpg on a 125G.

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And he has the same light than I do, means 6 hours in over 3wpg on a 125G

Don't even thing about it

Anyway one of my favorite things about summer. Shrimp on a stick.



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What do you think?



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You like or not?



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Nah

In the last picture it looks like you crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out

Doesn't do it for me at all,

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In the last picture it looks like you crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out


Where do you come up with these? Anyway I might playaround with the position alittle bit.



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Hey tetratech, I think it looks nice & interesting, although I can also see Ingo's image of
a crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out
. Do you worry that the fishies might hurt themselves on the sticks? It's probably just me, but I tend to worry if things are too pointy, but that's probably just old worry wart me. (I spent part of today sanding down the rough pointy edges of some rock caves I'm making out of broken slate).

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Thanks Robyn,

No I think the fish instinctively move around objects in the water. Who's to see what falls into a lake in nature. Branches fall off trees, etc.

Here's a full tank shot from this morning. Changed something?

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Changed Something? - hm, the things I notice as different are the specific postions of the crab legs and some Wisteria bush behind on the right-off-center back (but this may just be growth) and the rock that is in front of it.

Also, I notice that you are back to the trianguar layout, just like you were the last time before a major trim. Is that on purpose this time?

Compared to the last full tank shot it appears that the front of the tank is more shaded again.

Otherwise, just as beautiful as usual.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Changed Something? - hm, the things I notice as different are the specific postions of the crab legs

Easy there big fella and remember you have a new tank coming up for my to judge. Funny you call them crab legs because another crustanean (amano shrimp) really like them. He comes out of his new cave to look around.

Yes, there basically I moved the wallachi over to join the main group and put a rock into that area. Not the rock I want, but I don't have a closet of them to choose.
And yes, I did trim to get that full triangluar look. For some reasoon I think the tank looks best that way.
Also the tank sometimes looks darker because both sets of lights aren't on sometimes.

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Easy there big fella and remember you have a new tank coming up for my to judge.
Uh, I guess I forgot that . Sorry - Grand Master Tetratech, I promise to be more restrained in my judgement of your tank (or not).

Anyway, yeah - the triangular shape is nice, but you will have to watch out that the left sections doesn't lose interest. I mean, there is just Wisteria and once the eye is doen following an incline from right to left, why still look at a low field of even more Wisteria?

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Anyway, yeah - the triangular shape is nice, but you will have to watch out that the left sections doesn't lose interest. I mean, there is just Wisteria and once the eye is doen following an incline from right to left, why still look at a low field of even more Wisteria?


Maybe I misunderstood "Triangle" I"m not trying to make the high point the corner. I stil want the peak offcenter with the aromatica, so I should still say mound although it's not a soft rounder point, but just left to center full and center to right full but still declining.

Here's another closer pic of the main area. I love the lushness.

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Nice close-up tetratech,

I have noticed it before, but in this shot I was reminded of it - one cannot say that you have only a few fish either. What did you say? Around 40? And on average all of your fish are quite a bit bigger than mine (I would assume 1 card is like 2 espei).

About the triangle, let me see if I got that straight. You plan to keep the shape like my yellow lines. If so, the area I referred to as becoming "less interesting" is the one in the orange circle.

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Let's see:

23 Cards
8 Otos
5 Pencils
4 Black Neons (moved from 12g)
4 Rummys
2 Rainbows
2 Rams

48 Fish Total
8 are otos, 5 pencils (tiny)


With the addition of the rainbows and the black neons I'm definitely pushing it. But remember light is the driver. I have less of it for algae to utilize. I also keep hitting on the feeding. When I lift rocks or plants there is almost no mess. That to me is an indicator of the waste level in the tank.

I could see from the pic why you see triangle, but with a few snips this is what my tank is really about:




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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Yeah,

That type of mound makes more sense, given the current left side.

Fish:

23 Cards (x 1.5 per Espei = 34 Espei)
8 Otos (have 6, plus 2 Espei)
5 Pencils (6 Espei)
4 Black Neons (moved from 12g) (8 Espei)
4 Rummys (6 Espei)
2 Rainbows (my 3 Rainbows)
2 Rams (my 2 Pearls)

So this means: all others than the Espei are covered, plus 50 Espei. Plus 53 extra gallons of water in my tank for the additional maybe 40 Espei. Basically, I have less fish than you do

I know that's not good math, but hey, makes me feel better

Ingo

EDIT: uh, forgot the Apsitos and the 3 additional Rainbows in a few weeks


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Yeah, I don't know if 1 card equals 1.5 espei in terms of waste. As I said it's also a matter of feeding, plus mass, plus light. Mabye because 90% of my substrate is covered with fert hungry wisteria it all get's sucked up quickly.

Anyway did some add'l trimming to get this:



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Your tank looks great. I have no idea how you cut to shape like you guys do. Do you trim while the tank is full? Otherwise, I assume the tall stems just bend over. Must make it even harder to shape the triangle when you cut from the bottom (although I usually get to do a couple of wisteria trims from the top, before I have to do that).

I like the low wisteria in the front & that's how I hope mine goes. Guess that means frequent removal & triming from the bottom?

Anyway, looking good.

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Ah, the mound

Yeah, I that looks nice, now simply go ahead and freeze-frame the tank

Two things though, one that I thought about but forgot to mention, the other one from this picture:

1) A assume you noticed that the branch on the right of the main group is pretty much consumed by the plants.

2) What happened to the rock that you just introduced us to? Was this picture taken from a different angle or why can I not see it anymore?

Ingo


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tetratech
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Robyn,

Thanks. A little tip on the wisteria. If you want it to stay low longer, when you trim and replant, replant the top on like a 45 degree angle. It will be more likely to grow roots along the stem and will anchor itself in the substrate and grow along it. That's pretty much how I spread mine. It's basically layer upon layer of horizontal growth.

LF,
The branches and rock at this point look O.K. but are pretty much marking the spot where longer branches and a bigger rock will go. I'll have to trim more to keep branches visible.

The pic is taken down low so you don't see the rock (Not tall enough). I think the other pic was taken higher up.

Here's a pic showing the edge of my mound with Rotala R, Rotala W and the rock that was hidden in previous pic.
The taller wisteria in the back behind the rock is not rooted below. It is growing from the right alway across the back alittle off the substrate.



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I wasn't going to post any more pics tonite, but I thought these were pretty good.

First since we've been talking otos:



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And a nice shot of one of my Bosemani Rainbows. These guys have colored up nicely already:



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Looking Good Tetra, Looking Good.

I always enjoy seeing your tank pictures.

Rick
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Wow tetratech,

Somehow I did not see this fish pictures until this morning. Did you secretly aquire a new camera? These are really cloe-close-ups . The Oto in particular is frightening large in the picture.

Nice shot on the rainbow as well, although I have to say that he doesn't look very happy to see you out there with the camera

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Rick,
Thanks! Always nice to hear comments.

LF,
That was my first reaction, hugh. Do you know there really is a giant oto species? I saw them one time in a LFS. Not very attractive. No same camera, I've discovered the "super macro mode". The limitation of my current camera (Canon S2 IS) is film speed. Only goes up to 400.



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No, I have never heard about a giant Oto. I wonder if they just gave that fish some name based on similar features (or behaviors) but basically it is a completely different species.

Super Macro Mode - - up to 400, I guess that would be fast enough for pictures of your snails .

No really, nice shots, once again,

Ingo


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I can't confirm that it was an actual oto species, but it did have the same triangular head. Speaking of otos have you ever seen the zebra variety at your LFS. I did one time and wish I would have bought them.



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No, I have never seen them, cute.

I wonder if they exist in nature of if they are some form of special breed only available from fish farms.

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Beautiful pictures - I have serious camera envy. I've never seen those striped otos - they are very nice.

Cheers
TW
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Good Morning!

I meant to discuss this some time ago. What does it mean when you have no snails in your tank. I mean I've had snails that obviously came with plants, but they simply don't survive in my tank. I don't have any snail eaters either.




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Oh yes tetratech, you do have snail eaters

Your Rams eat the snails, and lots of fish will eat snail eggs. When I crush my snails in the 29 the Platies are all over them. When I had my Apsitos in the QT, in about 3 weeks I could not find any snails anymore. Now, that they are in the big tank, the QT has snails again (but not too many) and it appears that the 125 has much less.

I am also sure that water conditions, like low GH, have an influence on snails, less calcium means weaker shells and earlier demise. Also, if you had (which I think you don't) MTS, they would eat other small snails.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
I am also sure that water conditions, like low GH, have an influence on snails, less calcium means weaker shells and earlier demise

I wasn't even thinking of that, but your probably right. I know my water has a very low GH and I've differently seen white snail shells around.

I guess my rams could be eating somes snails in the jungle of wisteria, but I've never witnessed them doing so.

Here's a pic from this morning taken thru the side showing the plants "waking up"


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Holy (Fill in your option)

Now here is a totally surprising view of your tank. I would have never guessed that it is so narrow and how steep the incline to the background plants is.

Nice visual tetratech,

Ingo


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Holy (Fill in your option)


Holy "Wisteria Monster"

Anyway some updated pics. You'll notice two things. I've added more riccia to the right front and I've upped my po4 dosing while reducing no3 somewhat. Plants look more red I think?






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Full view from above:



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Full view from straight ahead:

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Looks so lovely!!!
What about some carpet plants

Great job tetratech!!!
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JQW,
I think thats the wisteria and riccia's job.

Tetra,
Tank looks really nice as normal.

I think things are looking more red too. Are you still adding higher iron levels? How much have you been messing with your levels?

I am working on trying to get some more color in my tank. I had a lot of green in the old set up but I want to mix it up a bit. Still not quite on a normal schedual after coming back yet...



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I also think that it looks more red than at an earlier stage.

So you say you up P and lower N. What do you think its current proportion would be?

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
JQW,
Thanks for the comments. As wings said my riccia and wisteria are pretty much my carpet.

Wings,
I have stopped dosing FE on a regular basis. I just wasn't seeing much out of it. I'm still dosing Flourish 3 times a week, but the red now is from higher P.

So you say you up P and lower N. What do you think its current proportion would be?


Well let's see. For the longest time I was dosing 10 to 1:

0.50 tsp no3
0.05 tsp po4

As my mass increased I went to:

0.75 tsp no3
0.08(approx.) tsp po4

Still a 10 to 1 ratio, now with my new dosing:

0.50 tsp no3
0.10 tsp po4

So I'm at 5 to 1, which is probably what alot of people do anyway, but I wasn't.

I'm deciding whether I should increase it to:

.75 tsp no3
.15 tsp po4

Either way I'm dong things sloooowly

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Either way I'm dong things sloooowly

Good man! Thanks for the info!

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks tetratech,

0.50 tsp no3 is what I intend to dose the new 40G, given that I dose 1.5tsp on the 125 and this one is a third of that size.

How much po4 I dose has yet to be seen, I currently dose 1/8tsp (what's that, like 0.125tsp) on the big tank. A third of that would be 1/24 of a tsp, or 0.0417tsp ( how much is a smidgeon again? )

Ingo


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Hi,
When you guys figure out how much to dose a 40G tank, then
I'll know about how much to dose my 30. Its a nightmare
without a set of scales from my chemistry class!
I'm thinking that measuring spoons just arn't gonna make
it! Guess I'll have to give them back to Susan...

Frank



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Well if we were in Europe we would all have scales bug most of use are not there or from there. On a side note, when I was in a college chem class they got a little funny about letting use bring the scales home. I asked my instructor about it and he said that they tend to get used for drugs a lot... Yay for being a small town fishing kind of guy.

BTW does LF have a thread running for his 40G?

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0.50 tsp no3
0.05 tsp po4


That was a very small amount of PO4.

I must admit I never sweat the dosing. Very un-scientific. Don't even use a measuring spoon. Just get a rough idea dip the spoon, toss in the tank. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

The tank looks good tetra, looks redder to me.

One little thing though, I'd love to see some pics with "proper" light.I find your photos very dark. Tends to make things look a bit lifeless, can't see the fish or any interaction going on


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tetratech
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One little thing though, I'd love to see some pics with "proper" light


Yes, people have said that. Probably because when I take most of my pics it's in the evening after the second bulb has gone out, so it's only lite by one 96watt bulb. Of course if I forced more light it would look more alive. Since you asked, here's a slightly brighter shot.



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What's the matter tetratech,

Did Bensaf's comment cause you a sleepless night?

Well, with loads of light or not, your tank is still beautiful .

One day I will have a nice looking tank as well.

Ingo


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Did Bensaf's comment cause you a sleepless night

Look who's talking! Oh Bensaf is just nervous because the USA is going to take the cup this year. I guess in order to please Bensaf I'll have to invest in $10,000 worth of professional photography equipment and have a fan blow ripples across the surface of my tank.



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because the USA is going to take the cup this year


Good joke, tetratech

See, that is the beauty of this hobby. Even if your tank looks good, there is always at least one person who has something to nag about . This is what drives us, what makes us go the extra mile (although I personally have quite a few miles to go).

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Good joke, tetratech!
I'm not laughing

Well Bensaf has just given me a reason to post a whole bevy of new pics.

I'm off to Home Depot to buy a fan

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Your pictures are always welcome, tetratech.

And, if I may suggest, don't get a fan, get a wave maker .

Ingo


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Thanks littlefish,

Here's some more "lively brighter" pics to please "My Master" and others who might find them interesting:



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Closeup shot of the Main Area and Eco Beach:

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Some of the main inhabitants:



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Another shot:



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This pic was taken around 8pm on Sunday. I haven't done a water change since last Sunday. I'll have to do my weekly wc tomorrow.



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Oh Bensaf is just nervous because the USA is going to take the cup this year.


The day USA wins a World Cup I'll eat my plants. There's more chance of Paris Hilton winning a Nobel Prize for science Even though your guys had a really successful qualifying campaign against such sporting superpowers as Jamaica and Costa Rica

Anyway I wasn't being critical of the tank I justed wanted some brighter pics
And the tank does look much better in the brighter photos - there's fish and life going on. Really nice job


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The day USA wins a World Cup I'll eat my plants
Well, now I really would like the US to win, but Bensaf will have to send us pictures of moss stuck between his teeth then .

Tetratech, looking very nice, bright, full, colorful, and any other compliment that I just cannot come up with right now

I guess your camera is a tad to slow to get a clear shot of the zooming Cardinals, you somehow will have to try to convince them to stay still for a monent

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Well, now I really would like the US to win, but Bensaf will have to send us pictures of moss stuck between his teeth then

I think Bensaf is really worried because he knows some of his lush plants are quite edible so it's not much of a bet.

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Czech Republic 3 - USA 0

so it's not much of a bet.


Well you got that darn right

Guess I won't have to dig up recipes for a Ludwigia salad with Riccia on the side for a while


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Czech Republic 3 - USA 0


Were just getting warmed up, we'll take the Italians and be on our way.

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Were just getting warmed up
- They better get warmed up quickly, otherwise they are all hot when it is time to pack the suitcases and to go home .

On the other hand - Bensaf, how did the Irish do so far?

BTW, if I had to put money on a winner, it would be Brazil, as much as I would like the Germans to win.

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Beautiful fish & plant pics Tetratech.

BTW, you wouldn't believe the fuss being made here because Australia beat Japan in their first game - but I guess the rest of you would probably say - "Oh, I didn't know Australia sent a team?" Yep, I think we qualified last (or just about) & from the fuss here, you'd think we'd won the series, not a game.

Cheers
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"Oh, I didn't know Australia sent a team?"

Robyn,

You underestimate the importance of soccer in the world. Of course I know you have a team there and most certainly did I know that you won, with 3 goals in the last 5 minutes. That is a reason to celebrate, give your fishies some special treats

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Oh, you wouldn't believe the big deal it is here. Apparently, we haven't even qualified since sometime back in 70's. When we qualified, you'd have thought that we'd won the whole cup then & there. One of our newspapers today had a headline saying something along the lines of "Australia's greatest sporting moment" or some such comment. So, everyone here is very excited.

So yes, my fishies will have to get a special treat. But this fishy here, is trying real hard qualify next time himself. http://assets.shns.com/SH06A250TRICKFISH.jpg
I guess this is just trick photography.

Cheers
TW
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Robyn that is a really great pic!

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Isn't photoshop great!

Tetra,
How big are you rainbows? I wish I could get a picture of mine for you. They are really great fish. Way too fast though! I tend to get wet when its feeding time.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Wings,

My rainbows are about 2.5 inches. You could get an idea in this pic when comparing to the rummynoses? These guys seemed to have settled in nicely and I like them. They are voracious eaters as you know so I basically have to spoon feed my rams (net method as LF knows)



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Thought this was a nice colorful pic showing alot of fish activity:



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Oh and this is the wisteria salad that Bensaf is going to eat when the USA wins the cup:

It really does look pretty appetizing, don't you think?





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Post InfoPosted 14-Jun-2006 02:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Oh and this is the wisteria salad that Bensaf is going to eat when the USA wins the cup:


It does look rather tasty, but I doubt I'll get to sample it. All kidding aside , of the games I've seen The US have been the weakest team I've seen so far. I thought that honor would go to Trinidad or Togo. The USA team were shockingly bad against the Czechs. One thing's for sure they can only improve from here on out.

USa has a deceptively high rating in the FIFA rankings, I think they are top 10 team, but if analysed and you look at the opponents they have played it's a very deceptive record.They really haven't come up against any opponents of quality, especially in their qualifying rounds.

Ingo,
I know I asked for that, we ain't there this year sadly
We got screwed over by the worlds dumbest referee and an Israeli that fell to the ground screaming like he'd been shot by a Hezbollah everytime somebody looked crooked at him, cheating git. A piece of Thierry Henry genius was our final undoing after getting the better of France for 2 games. Shame we have a pretty useful team, even better then our last World Cup team (who if you remember gave Germany a pretty rough time ).

We'll be back.


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
They are voracious eaters
Yeah, feeding my rather hesitant Apistos is pretty hard with rainbows in the way. Yesterday, one of them in the QT made such a splash that all food in the container got wet.

And yes, your Wisteria salad does look very appetizing, if it wouldn't be for that one line of poop.

Bensaf - Irland is my favorite underdog in Europe. Whenever the Germans are already out I cheer for Irland. Today is another Germany game, we will see how that goes. I would say 3-1 Germany.

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Post InfoPosted 14-Jun-2006 10:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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And yes, your Wisteria salad does look very appetizing, if it wouldn't be for that one line of poop.

You amaze me, but the poop is seasoning.



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yuk




Ingo



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Post InfoPosted 14-Jun-2006 14:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well ya see, I was in the store and yada, yada, yada.....I ended up with two blue rams. I guess it's my turn to try.

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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Nice fish Tetra,

I hope you have better luck than LF with them. They seem to be a little easier to sex than LF's.

It also seems that you have been buying a lot of new stuff at random latly. Must be all that
yada, yada, yada.....
stuff.

More fishing time for me. I am out....

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Very nice tetratech

With all my heart do I wish you way more luck than I had so far. If you fail then it for sure cannot be bad tank conditions as yours is very settled.

And I see you got a pair there

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 01:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks guys, I caught these myself. We'll see how they do. So far I see no aggression from the bolivian rams that have been in the tank a very long time.

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Couple more shots:



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tetratech
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One more:



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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 02:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice fish. Good luck with them.

Cheers
TW
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Very nice tetratech,

Me wonders now how your opinion on Bolivians will change (in regards of beauty) .

In a related topic, I was wondering what is known about interbreeding between Bolivians and Germans (Rams, I mean).

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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 13:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Me wonders now how your opinion on Bolivians will change (in regards of beauty)

Remember I've had blue rams before, one for as long as 6 to 7 months. Without a doubt the colors are more vibrant overall, although the bolivians have those radiant red trim to the tale and they do color up nicely before breeding. I don't think bolivians and blues will mate.

Oh well, another riccia moocher:

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Just eatting a snail or two I am sure. Even if it was eatting the vegies you have plenty of it.

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LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah,

I am with Wings. Do you actually see strips of Riccia hanging out of their mouths? Very often, I find that snails love to hang out in the shrubs, like mosses etc. Your Ram may have well found one of them in there and decided that she needs some meat in her diet

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Post InfoPosted 17-Jun-2006 11:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The tank is still looking great tetratech. Nice blue rams, we just got a nice batch of those in our store.

Hows the SW tank coming along?



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Post InfoPosted 17-Jun-2006 16:18Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Matty, I'll keep my fingers crossed with the rams.
I'm definitely doing the sw tank. Just got really busy with work, etc. Hoping to have it up within a few weeks.



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I'm definitely doing the sw tank
Well, I hope that my rather limited input in the upcoming SW thread will not be interpreted as a lack of interest, but I only can say "how pretty" so often.

That's what happened to me with Matty's thread, all I can comment on are the nice pictures (and algae ).

Good luck tetratech,

Ingo




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Post InfoPosted 18-Jun-2006 12:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well, I hope that my rather limited input in the upcoming SW thread will not be interpreted as a lack of interest, but I only can say "how pretty" so often.


Understood LF!

Well Day 3 with the ram pair and all is well. Yes that's LF that's GSA on the glass and you could stop laughing. I've been lazy cleaning it.




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I wasn't laughing

Actually, I was just about to write a response yesterday when out router died .

I am glad to hear that the Rams are still doing fine, and I hope it will stay that way.

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Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2006 13:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well if these rams do O.K. I have a theory, but I'll wait to see how they do.

BTW - USA was robbed the other day against Italy by some psyco ref. Now it will take a miracle to advance

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Now it will take a miracle to advance
It always did

Are you aware that the US has not yet even shot a goal?

Tank related: I cannot wait to hear the theory. If it isn't all too wild then I may try it out.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Are you aware that the US has not yet even shot a goal?

We did score, but the psycho ref took it away. It's hard to compete when soccer is a 5th sport here and elsewhere it's religion. I should really move to S.America where the soccer is great and the fish aren't bad either.

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NowherMan6
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Very pretty rams tetra! Great pics too. Hope they do well for ya.

And I second LFs post about commenting on your soon-to-be SW tank. I'll also be adding "oo, that looks great!" comments, along with the occasional remark about how SW folks just cultivate flouresent fungus and blobs etc., not as nice as plant tanks etc. You get the drift...

And by the way:

when soccer is a 5th sport here
\

Football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR, golf, hockey, Indy car - soccer doesn't get a sniff in the states professionally at least. Popular in schools and such but not at a main level. I know what you mean.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2006 17:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR, golf, hockey, Indy car - soccer doesn't get a sniff in the states professionally at least. Popular in schools and such but not at a main level. I know what you mean.


So are you saying soccer is the 7th sport, right in front of shuffleboard

Anyway things for popping in and the comments. Enjoying the rams so far and I'm thrilled that there is absolutely no aggression with the bolivans (until they breed anyway) I guess your living up to your name. How bout a pic once in a while. Cats got your camera.



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Couple of updates:

- Trimmed everything and cut every stem of the aromatica and removed bottoms and replanted tops.
- Added a few more riccia covered stones.
- Changed dw pieces slightly by either cutting some and moving around other ones.

I am really amazed by how little gets stirred up when I remove plants and rocks. As I mentioned I removed every stem of the aromatica and there were some pretty big root systems and very little came out of the eco. I think this is part of the reason I don't have algae issues but it's also a reason why many of my fish are eating the riccia - they're switching to salad since the beef isn't available. And yes I saw the rams sucking it down. There are no snails in my 72g.

Here's a few tank view from today:



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Here's a compare shot from 9 days ago and today after the trim. You could see the changes I spoke of:



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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 01:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I haven't really fiqured out what makes the rotala and other plants look red. I've pretty much stopped dosing Iron and I've been dosing my po4, but sometimes it doesn't look that red. The last week or so it has though. Maybe there's a longer delay than I thought in getting the red color to show. Here's a good shot of the rotala currently:



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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 01:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
Well whatever you are doing the Rotala looks much healthier then ever before.

Ok, that was my token effort at staying on topic.

Now for the important stuff !

It's hard to compete when soccer is a 5th sport here and elsewhere it's religion. I should really move to S.America where the soccer is great and the fish aren't bad either.

It sounds like you are that rarity - an American whounderstands and appreciates football ( I hate calling it soccer, it's football, don't you guys insist on calling a game, where the ball is in the hands and thrown far more often then it's kicked, football).

The reason why it's a poor 5th in the US and a religion everywhere else probably says a lot about American attitudes to sport and the American psyche in general.

Americans have a rather strange attitude to sport. There seems to an obsession with winning and statistics. For a start tied games seem to be an abhoration to Americans
There always has to a winner and winning seems to be everything rather then the actual joy of playing and the manner in which a game was played.
High scores seem to be a requirement for US sports too. A lot of Americans don't seem able to get their head around a 1-0 scoreline.baseball would be the possible exception here.
Never understood why Basketball is so popular there. Any game that has a losing score of 80 or 90 points is a bit ridiculous to me ( a bit like any "sport" where you get points for artistic interpretation is not really a sport in my book). To me it's just a game where you run down one end throw the ball at the net , score or miss , now it's your turn to run to the other end and you throw, score or miss ! It always struck me as a game you didn't so much win as whoever missed the least won. The court is the size of a footbal penalty area yet these athletes have to rest every 10 mins!? Good god it's not like the game is even played at any kind of real pace !
The obsession with statistics is another thing I don't get. We don't bother much with statistics in football, except for someones scoring record. Statistics are meaningless when you try to apply to a sweet defense cutting pass, how can you match a statistic to the movement and ball control of a Platini, a Maradonna, a Cruyff ?
I wonder if these scores and obsessions with stats are a reflection of the fast food society, the quick fix, the low attention span, the need for bigger more powerful things then the other guy?
All of this I think will always keep football way down the pecking order in the US. The game just doesn't fit with the American way. Maybe if the US started winning soccer tournaments that would change. There has to be a reason why a baseball played between a bunch of US cities and a couple of Canadian one is called the World Series ?!
But it's Catch 22 - it'll never gain poularity til you start winning but you'll never win until it's given more attention.

But it's ok the rest of liking having at least one thing we can do better then America

BTW, I should add, in these senstitive times, none of this should be considered American knocking. It's just observation on the differences. I like and respect Americans, at their best they have a bravery and compassion that is unmatched. Shame they can't play football for crap


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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 04:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It's hard to compete when soccer is a 5th sport here and elsewhere it's religion
It's the same in Australia. Really, only the little kids play soccer here - the big boys play AFL & NRL which are both football games where the ball is in the hand most of the time. From what I gather, our Aussie socceroos have to play for overseas teams for their professional soccer career. Other than for the world cup, soccer can't capture the crowd here. Our team has to be called home every now then to form the socceroos, when they're called to play for Australia. My son played soccer though as a youngster & he still prefers it to NRL.

Cheers
TW
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Well tetratech,

I think your tank looks very nicely, even after having received a major trim. I like the addition of the new Riccia, it makes the center part look less artificial and more like naturally grown.

You say you actually cut the driftwood? Just some clipping or big chunks?

On to soccer:

While Bensaf has a few points that I agree with, I have a few opinions on popularity and such myself:

- Bluntly, soccer is not as popular than other sports because it doesn't have any breaks to show commericals. If the Media in a TV obsessed nation would pick it up big time then it could catapult the sport way up that list.

- I agree on most other points though.

- The World Series, as much as I know, has a different meaning to the word "World" as I think to remember that this was some dude's name. But I am sure the Americans among us can clarify.

That's it for now, have to get ready to chear for a team that actually shoots goals

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 13:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Bensaf
Well thanks for the Rotala comments

I guess I know how to push your buttons to get you back in my thread.
Anyway at the risk of sounding unpatriotic I do agree with most of your comments. My son play's travel soccer and his coaches always applaud the goal scorer but I see very little attention given to the kid that setup the drive and the kid that executed the sweetest of passes to make it happen.

We can get into a whole debate on what's a "sport" and what's an "activity" but we would be way off topic for a long time. They are moving toward a true "World Series" in baseball now. I find it very difficult to watch baseball because of the soft cap that allows teams like the Yankees to pretty much get anyone they want. So it's not an even close to an even playing field.

I do disagree with you on basketball. Although I am not a hugh basketball fan it is quite a workout. Maybe because it's indoors or because you have 5 big guys trying to get free in a very small space so they have to always be moving.

I think you have to give the Americans some credit playing with 9 players against Italy's 10 and earning a tie. By the way the Italians played very dirty throwing elbows, etc.

It's funny cause I've often mentioned to people your comments about the "World" Series and American Football being referred to as Football. Compared to baseball it's football. We really are a cocky bunch.

LF,
Thanks for the comments. The riccia is really fun to work with. I was able to split some of my thicker pieces into thinner ones.

Don't forget soccer was popular here in the days of Pele when they were getting 60,000 people in the stadium. I took my kid to a Metrostar game (now Red Bulls )last year and there were maybe 7,000. We got great seats though and the kids went on the field on got to meet Freddie.

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baseball finally a sport I can talk about. The World Series being named after someone called world is an urban legend. The first Modern world series was 1903. Before that there were varying leagues and one of them had a "Series for the Champion of the United States". The newspapers back then I guess weren't much different than they are today and exaggerated a bit by calling it the World's Series and it stuck.

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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 15:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Day 5 with the Rams and they seem to be doing fine. Here's the female on top of her favorite grazing area.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 01:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You can't see this from the full tank views, but my main rock area is actually two rocks creating a cave:



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Hey, where did the crushed crab go ?

No seriously, nice pictures and close-ups tetratech. I am still keeping my fingers crossed for your Rams and I only will relax them after 2 weeks have passed (that was how long my first batch a few months back survived).

Say, did you put on your famous snorkle and mask and dive in there to get this close to the rock or do you have a new macro lense?

Rick, thanks for explaing that World Series thing

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Say, did you put on your famous snorkle and mask and dive in there to get this close to the rock or do you have a new macro lense


Remember super-macro mode. Anyway the crushed crab has been retired. I didn't love it and I thing it distracted from the riccia foreground.

Your last ram pair lasted 2 weeks?


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 01:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Well after 60 something pages I thought it would be safe to throw something non planted tank related into the mix

Before we move off soccer - congrats to LF. Great performance by Germany yesterday, they were masterful in the first half, great movement and passing, 3 good goals, they pretty much dismantled Equador.

Well America is fascinating for it's contradictions. It gets an unfair rap. We Europeans tend to be a bit snotty about the 'ol US especially when it comes to culture. While, like all stereotypes, there is a grain of truth in it, it's generally unfair and and snobbish.
Without a doubt the US has produced the finest examples of almost every art form in modern history - along with some of the greatest dross ! The finest movies, literature, music and TV has come from America , hands down as good as European and in some areas far superior to anything produced in Europe. And with it came a pile of rubbish.

Hemingway, Faulkner, Wolfe, Mailer et al produced the most powerful and relevant literature ever known....and then there was Dan Brown.
In music you gave us Rock and Roll, Jazz, The Blues.........Britney Spears , the Backstreet Boys !
John Huston, Scorsese, John Ford , Orson Welles, Spielberg, every darn great movie, and not just the great entertaining ones, the stylized intelligent ones too, all came from the US.Somebody name one European movie that would make an all time top ten list (apart from maybe Lawrence of Arabia - but heck that what about an Irish guy ) and along with it some of the worst movies ever made too !
80% of American TV shows are sludge (but 80% of ALL TV shows are sludge) but when it's good it's pretty much the best - The Sopranos,24, Lost,The West Wing, Seinfeld , Cheers to name a few recent examples.

But it's these contradictions that make the place fascinating. MAybe it's something to do with the huge impact of the Irish on Americas history and heritage. The Irish have their own strange set of contradictions.

All art is a reflection of the human spirit and any society that can consistently produce the finest in so many art forms must be doing something right. But that's often overlooked these days - shamefully.


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Your last ram pair lasted 2 weeks?
No - the pair that I had before the last one did. It was around the time when I started the 125G that I saw an obvious pair in the LFS and I knew I had to have them. I placed them in my 29G, which at that time was around 6 months old. After about 2 weeks we went away for 2 days and when I came back one was dead and the other minutes away from the same fate . There was no sign of illness before we left.

Bensaf, thanks for the congratulations, I sure played very hard . Now it is on to ply against Sweden, we will see if the Germans can keep up this "unusual" offensive drive, it would be nice.

Nice philosophial interlude there, bensaf . Arts as an indicator for a culture is sure important.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 10:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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When talking about sports in the US, hockey(even thought it came from Canada) never got brought up. It is so much like soccer in the aspect of scoring. I love how it is a fast game and there are not big breaks ever 3 seconds for who knows what.

On to the tank....
LF,
Whats with the crab thing?

Tetra,
Great pictures as normal! I so can't wait until I get a camera!



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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 14:08Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Wings,
Yes you are right about the Hockey, although hockey is like a 4th sport here.

Don't know what camera your looking for, but my camera is down to like $300 from $499 when I bought it. Canon S2 IS.

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Thinking a Canon Rebel right now. I am going to make the wife pick it out. She used to be a photo major. $300 isn't too bad to pay either. I will have to have her look into it.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Well, my worthless two pence:

I don't enjoy watching soccer all that much. I like the World cup because it's competition, a tournament and that's entertaining in itself.

What Bensaf said earlier about scoring drawing attention is true, and yes that in my mind is the biggest reason it's not huge in the States. That and lack of tackling And the inability (from lack of stats etc.) to make it a large sport to gamble on.

But that also rings true for nearly every major sport in the US. The true fans and true lovers of the sport will always appreciate the little things. There are a million things I love about baseball, things that would come into play regardless of scoring. Same in football - there's blocking techniques, footwork, precision of routes, line play - all things that are an essential part of the game that aren't shown on ESPN, things that take place away from the QB and wide receivers, but that are vital to their success. Fans of hockey appreciate precise passing and stellar goalie play as much as a soccer fan does.

The difference is I think in the US there's more than just sports, there's sport culture, and that's an entirely different animal. It's led by gambling of course, and that's probably one of the top 3 reasons why football has become so big - games take place once a week, 16 times per year. Tons of stats to allow you to make predictions. Then there's ESPN and the many ESPN channels, magazines etc all meant to attract the casual fan to come to a game and spend money. That's where soccer (and hockey, truth be told) fall out of favor with US fans. We as true fans of our favorite sports can appreciate effort and skill, especially if you've ever played these sports. Effort doesn't make the highlight reels. Scoring does.

So in the end it ties back to what Bensaf also said, about a lot of great cultural things coming out of the states and a lot of crud - sport as a commodity, a piece of media to be inflated and sold is one of those cruddy things. It's lead to holdouts, new contract demands etc. by the players, PED use and the overall degradation of the integrity of the games.

On a related note, do soccer players hold out for better contracts? Skip practice? Just curious.


Back in the saddle!
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tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
O.K. this is the planted tank forum isn't it

Maybe somehow this does relate to planted tanks

Here is my poor attempt at a correlation!
Americans like the big goal, big name, they don't appreciate all the little things that go into getting that goal. Maybe this is why they don't appreciate planted tanks like they do in Asia and elsewhere. They think more of the centerpiece fish than the scape. The fish come first for most in the U.S. not the delicate relationships that all the "players" in a planted tank do. In the states almost all professional tanks installed are Saltwater. The balance are usuallly african cichlids. Reason being Americans are attracted to the big fish, colorful and not the whole environment that is created. From the rocks,to the driftwood, to the foreground, mid and background plants it's all about working together to form something natural and beautiful and eventually to "score" with a beautiful tank.




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Nice move on getting this thread back on track, tetratech

And I think your version of why planted tanks are not all that popular in the US (yet) makes a lot of sense. This, coupled with the 5,000 overtime hours at work every month to maintain the number one position and as such a lack of free time to mess with a planted tank, might be the reason.

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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 19:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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.........Britney Spears , the Backstreet Boys !


In the U.S, they and their pop brethren are pretty much a joke to anyone under 13.

Hmph, I wish the "tweens" of America would obsess over better music

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I always though attitudes to planted tanks in the US are a bit similar to their attitude to cars. Bigger, faster, guzzle more fuel, have a bigger engine under the hood etc.

Even the stats obsession creeps in - KH, Ph, No3 numbers etc are always reeled off.

Everyone one wants the flashy over the top red plants.

Growth rates are compared like the 0-60mph rate of an auto.

Asian attitudes are much simpler. Everything is kept to a minimum. Plants are very carefully chosen, ease of use and maintenance is a higher priority then appearance. The lack of flashy plant species is overcome by clever design and use of hardscape. Generally the overall look is greater then the sum of the parts. Fish are secondary and very small species are used.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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I agree Bensaf. I think the West tends to be more interested in the ends than in the steps taken to acheive them.

I think in America, we have forgotten how beautiful subtlety is.

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I think in America, we have forgotten how beautiful subtlety is.


Thats why in all my tanks there are live plants and I make it a point to go out as far away from town I can get at least once a week.

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2006 13:53Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Even the stats obsession creeps in - KH, Ph, No3 numbers etc are always reeled off.

Not Guilty

Everyone one wants the flashy over the top red plants.
Guilty if you count my stellaromatica a la hudson

Growth rates are compared like the 0-60mph rate of an auto.

Not Guility, but I know someone who is

Asian attitudes are much simpler. Everything is kept to a minimum. Plants are very carefully chosen, ease of use and maintenance is a higher priority then appearance. The lack of flashy plant species is overcome by clever design and use of hardscape. Generally the overall look is greater then the sum of the parts. Fish are secondary and very small species are used.
Somewhat Guilty

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but I know someone who is
I don't think you mean me though, or do you? Just because I am once in a while inclined to rave about my Star Grass growth doesn't mean that I am obsessed with it .

Anyway, how did we get into this philosophical discussion again?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2006 15:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Anyway, how did we get into this philosophical discussion again?


bensaf started it - as usual


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Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2006 16:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Guys,
Lets keep the "extra stuff" in the Recovery Room where
it belongs...
Thanks,
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2006 20:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Lets keep the "extra stuff" in the Recovery Room where
it belongs...


Frank, why?

Does the "extra stuff" take up less space in the recovery room then here?

This thread , log, whatever you want to call it has been going on for 60 some pages, to the benefit and enjoyment of a lot of members.It's basically a running dialogue between a few plant geeks, sometimes we accidently come up with somwthing that may actually be helpful Bound to go off on a tangent from time to time, the nature of the beast.

I would have thought better to keep it within the confines of here , then cluttering up recovery room with new threads.

I like the "stream of conciousness" format these logs have developed into.




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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 23-Jun-2006 04:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Guys,
There has been an "official" complaint and after reading
several posts that strayed from the stated purpose of the
forum, I thought I'd just nudge things a bit back to center
before we all strayed too far.

Essentially I agree Ben, the chatting back and forth
format between us all has been informative and friendly
and good for us all.

As I said Ben, "just a nudge."

Obviously, your plant eating worries are over for the year.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 23-Jun-2006 07:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by katieb
Tetra,

Love the Main Rock/cave, and the ram

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Post InfoPosted 23-Jun-2006 20:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
As I said Ben, "just a nudge."


I hear you. Sad that somebody somewhere has nothing else to worry about but to complain about this. But that too is the nature of the beast I guess.

I 'll try to keep my meanderings to a minimum, but heck I'm Irish - you might as well ask me to try to stop breathing

Never had any real worries about having too eat my plants

Just to keep on topic - tank looking good tetra . Do you think that maybe the spot where the Wallichi is, is looking a little "weak" compared to the rest of the tank ? Maybe something a little stronger but at the same time not too strong to throw the look off balance.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 24-Jun-2006 03:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don't even want to talk about "complaints" as it would conclude in a rant and that would not be fair either.

So, back to topic and bensaf's recent input:

I agree, the Wallichi group appears to be too fragile compared to all the other full plants. But instead of replacing the group with a stronger plant, how about adding more Wallichi?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 24-Jun-2006 13:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yeah, you guys have a point about the wallachi. It's hard to put another good plant bunch there because it extends my mound so far to the right that it's really not a mound anymore. I would have to remove some wisteria and add it or something else more to the center of the scape, but that would end my wisteria jungle look.

On a fish note, the rams are still doing fine (Day 12). Interesting discussion in another thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/29759.1.htm?0.8601972#
about german rams vs blue rams. I posted a pic of my rams in that thread since their were some aquarists that seemed knowledgeable and one stated that my rams aren't even blue or german blue rams but a "Normal Ram" whatever that means.
Here's a current pic:



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Yeah,

I would like to know what Wfish means with his "blue" comment

But I have a question for you: why does the pink on the female belly look to be such a pure red? Did you mess with the camera settings or something?

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Post InfoPosted 27-Jun-2006 21:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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But I have a question for you: why does the pink on the female belly look to be such a pure red

I didn't change any settings. If you look at the cardinals they are deep red and the ram is more like a rosy pink red in reality.

BTW - I saw some other rams at the LFS the other day where I got these and they had a golden color over their whole body but they were clearly blue rams with the familiar blue and black markings.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Jun-2006 22:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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had a golden color over their whole body but they were clearly blue rams with the familiar blue and black markings
Oh no

What are we going to call these then? Non-German-Golden-Blue-Rams?



BTW, I am glad your Rams are still doing fine,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Jun-2006 23:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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What's in a name ? They are all the same fish, German, Blue
whatever they are called. A bit like like some people calling Myriophyllium names like "Frill" and Parrots Feather - doesn't change the fact it's the same plant.

There a Gold variety coming out of Asia now as well as other monstrosities like balloon and "jumbo" Rams. Why, in the name of all that's holy, anybody would want to take such a spectacular fish and mess with it is beyond me. Especially to come out with a variety that has less color or a deformed shape. And people buy these? To me it's like some idiot playing with the genetics of a plant and coming out with a new one - "look, it only has 2 leaves, but they're big ones and instead of being bright green they're a dull grey - wanna buy it ?"

For the spot where the Wallichi is I wasn't thinking of another bunch plant. Something different , more dramatic. I'm thinking maybe a crypt, but something with flat broad leaves. Anubias Coffeefolia type thing. Or one I think would really work visually , and no I'm not losing it, Spatterdock (Nuphar Japonica). Big unbelievably bright green ruffled lily type leaves, but it stays low doesn't head for the surface like lilies. Added bonus - algae resistant I really think that would work a treat !

Another option, if you can find it - Aponogeton Capuroni. Lovely plant, green transluscent ruffled leaves but unlike other Apons it maxes out at about 12' height , stays a nice size.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 04:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Right on, Bensaf

I personally think ballon Rams are truely ugly, like a bloated version of the normal Ram.

About the plant recommendations: I will have to check all these plants out, maybe I like them for my own tank. One question though - the Aponogeton Capuroni, is that one of the type that will periodically melt or become static before it starts to grow again (like most Apons) ?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 10:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Balloon rams look like fish that are extremely constipated.
Poor things. I've also seen the long-finned ones as well

Bensaf,

I will definitely look into some of those plants. It's been quite some time since I've added any new species, but I don't want my tank looking like a salad bar or a defensive line-up for a free kick

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In the fish hobby it is every guy trying to make a quick buck.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 13:57Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Just to play devil's advocate about the rams - I wholeheartedly agree about the physical deformities, but sometimes i think the Gold ram variety is quite nice looking. They're not dyed, it's just a color variation. Although I do admit, the point about messing with a good thing is taken - for a bright beautiful little fish like the german ram to exist in the wild is amazing, why mess with it?


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Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 14:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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About the Gold Ram:

I have to say that I have a hard time with this fish. Although its coloration is not ugly or such, I am only reminded that this is a Ram (of any kind) when I see the fish moving around in the tank in a typical Ram fashion, like defending territories against other Rams, stop and go, and what not. When I just look at the fish briefly I cannot even identify it as a Ram.

Maybe I just have to get used to it first before it appears normal to me. But maybe I don't want to get used to it

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 15:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Speaking of golden varieties. Did anyone ever see these.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 16:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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No, I don't

Looks like your tank though. I would call these Albino Rummies or Match Rummies, if I had to invent a name for them.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 16:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Looks like your tank though

Actually the pic is from APC, but I did see these in the LFS.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jun-2006 17:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Aponogeton Capuroni, is that one of the type that will periodically melt or become static before it starts to grow again (like most Apons) ?


Another advantage of the Capuroni is that while it will hybernate from time to time it doesn't melt and the bulb doesn't need to be removed , it simply will not produce a new leaf for a few weeks. I'll see if I have any good pics of mine.

Tetra I understand what you are saying about the salad bar which was why I wasn't envisioning another stem plant. I was thinking something broad but low to add a new shape to the tank while at the same time highlighting the big bunch of "flowers" in the center. You remember the winning tank from the AGA contest? I was think along those lines as regards function but for your set up I was think low and broad rather then the tall lily. Spatterdock came to mind not just because the shape is ideal but the incredible bright green of that plant would really pop out of the Wisteria field and then blend in with the explosion of color you have in the middle of your tank. The Anubias Coffeefolia would be a far more subtle , more mysterious version of that idea.

Well you probably saw my comments on the albino rummies on the thread in APC. It's the perfect case in point. Rummies are famed for their color, why oh why anybody thinks we need an albino version is beyond me. Why have that drab cream color when you can have the bright silver with a green irredescense that a normal rummie has? It's not about ethics as such , I just don't see the point.





Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 29-Jun-2006 04:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Spatterdock came to mind not just because the shape is ideal but the incredible bright green of that plant would really pop out of the Wisteria field and then blend in with the explosion of color you have in the middle of your tank.

Yes that does sound nice

It's not about ethics as such , I just don't see the point.

Yes, I did see your comments and I agree! It's tough to top mother nature!

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Post InfoPosted 29-Jun-2006 13:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
No these are not fish eggs .


I get alot of pearling with the "I can't count the bubble rate" method. All plants pearl most everynite with the exception of the riccia because it's very low and the shading has to be minimal. Last nite (6 days post-WC) I had some insane pearling. I've never seen my wisteria pearl this way before.





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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 15:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice pearling tetratech,

But are you sure that it is not some hair algae on the Wisteria leaves that pearls? I find that algae in general, and in particular in higher elevations, makes very good bubblers.

I am not implying that this is the case in your specific case, but it could be.

Do you have any idea why it may pearl on that particular day so well? Can it be that on that day you have reached optimum levels of nutrients and CO2 levels?

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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 15:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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But are you sure that it is not some hair algae on the Wisteria leaves that pearls?



Well if it is "hair" algae it's Albino.
Your probably right about the co2 and ferts. Actually I was getting alittle nervous last nite because many of my fish were at the surface. I routinely raise my spraybar slightly out of the water in the evening to create some more o2 exchange.

It wasn't only that one leaf, there were streams of bubbles all over the tank.

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In case your wondering the Rams seem to be fine after 17 days. Here's a few current pics.



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jul-2006 17:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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And the other:



Attached Image:


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Another shot

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tetratech
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These guy is very friendly

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LITTLE_FISH
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Well if it is "hair" algae it's Albino


That fish-on-surface part was very interesting. So you must either assume that your CO2 is too high, or your O2 is too low. The latter should not be the case as your plants wouldn't pearl if the water would not be O2 saturated. So, what makes the fish gasp at the surface? Too much intake of CO2 although there is enough O2 in the water?

Rams look nice, pictres are of excellent quality. I am glad to hear/read/see that things are going so much better with them for you then they did for me.

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Tetra,
Do you have any readings on your CO2? I tested mine last night and came up with:

Ph: 6.7-8
Kh: 17
CO2: 81ppm

I turned it down a little bit....

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tetratech
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LF,
Many fish were at the surface last nite, not all but many. Although the plants pearl and co2 doesn't displace o2 there is still alot of co2 in the water. So I guess I'm pushing it right now. I do notice when I've acclimated new fish in the evening they went right to the surface if I did it too quickly.

Wings,
I can't even get an accurate co2 reading because my ph color is as yellow as the chart gets, but assuming my ph is 6 and my kh I know is 2 I'm looking at 60ppm. I'm very leary of the whole kh/ph chart thing.....


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I'm very leary of the whole kh/ph chart thing
Now, canyou explain why that would be? Of all the measurements and calculations that I love soooo much, this chart seems to be the most reliable, given that you don't add any buffers and such to the water.

Or do you mean the inaccuracy of the test kits that would get you to the right column (ph) and row (KH) ?

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tetratech
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Well there's a whole discussion about this on APC, but I have a problem with it for a few reasons. First off most people don't know there exact PH. If your using a typical test kit, it's easy to be off by at least .2.

So if you measured your ph at 6.3 and your kh is 2 than you have the 30ppm that is so desired. But in reality if your ph is 6.5 then your running short of 19ppm. Can you say for sure you have the 30ppm by using the chart?

Secondly the measurement of co2 relies on the kh being buffered by carbonates. What if there's something in your tap that is different? This would invalidate the reading as well. I still find it hard to believe that someone with a 6.3 ph and a kh of 2 is running 30ppm and someone with the same ph and a kh of 10 is running 150ppm.

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tetratech,

I hear you on the inaccuracy of test kits and as such a quite broad range of possible CO2 values when crossing two elements (ph and KH).

The one thing I don't question at all is, given accurate measurements (or simply assuming them as fact) of ph and KH, that CO2 concentrations are base on these cross points, that seems to me to be a pure chemistry effect. I mean, hypothetically, a 6.3 ph and a kh of 2 is running 30ppm and a 6.3 ph and a kh of 10 is running 150ppm, that is just a fact. Why would it not be that way?

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tetratech
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The one thing I don't question at all is, given accurate measurements (or simply assuming them as fact) of ph and KH, that CO2 concentrations are base on these cross points, that seems to me to be a pure chemistry effect

Is it? Far be it for me to question german science, but I believe the KH reading is inaccurate for several reasons:

1. Too many elements, etc. in the tap and water column that might influence that number and they aren't necessarily carbonates.
2. Why is KH measured in a rounded number like 2 or 3, why isn't it 2.5 or 3.6?

Maybe it's me but when someone tells me there co2 is 120ppm and everythings fine I tend to doubt the number?


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Post InfoPosted 04-Jul-2006 15:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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In my science class I am in right now we just talked about the words Truth and Fact. We basicly descided that they were not good science words. Our scientific beliefs should be ever changing due to new research and technology. It think it is good for tetra to question such things. Far too often we take things for truth or fact just because we are told they are. If someone tells us its true then why question it. We should question thing so we know the truth or at least have a much better understanding of a subject matter.

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Post InfoPosted 04-Jul-2006 15:54Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
Actually, the values could easily be 2.349746... But, how
accurate do we need to be? This is not a lab, and I
believe generalities is close enough. You have gotten a
glimpse of this in another sense, as you planted bunches
of fast growing stem plants and then later, replaced them
with slower growing plants. How many cabomba = one sword,
or vice versa? How many wisteria?
There are numerous examples... How many epsi = one platy
(waste wise)...etc.

As one who has a scientific background, I prefer to carry
things out into decimal places, and the IF/THEN of logic,
but this is a hobby.
IF my KH is 4, AND my pH is 6.6, THEN my CO2 saturation
is 30mg/l. At least that is what "my" chart says. But
someone else may have carried their computations out
a couple of more places, or used digital equipment for
measuring instead of drops of reagents.
Now it could be 28.5 or it could be 32.0 but
for what we are dealing with, I feel it is "close enough
for government work."

We are right to question, that is how we learn, but I'm
not sure how "hung up" we need to get.

Just my $0.02.
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 04-Jul-2006 16:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
If someone tells us its true then why question it. We should question thing so we know the truth or at least have a much better understanding of a subject matter.

Wings, excellent relevant point. It wasn't too long ago that many aquarist (myself included) and many still do think that no3,po4 increases algae even in an well planted tank.

Actually, the values could easily be 2.349746... But, how accurate do we need to be?

Well I agree with that depending on the context we are talking about. Look the whole EI thing is "Estimative" but we are not talking ferts we are talking co2. If we go by the chart and you have a measured ph of 6.5 and a kh of 2 then you have 19ppm of co2. Probably good enough for many planted tanks, but if your actual ph is 6.8, just .3 difference than your actual co2 is 9.5ppm or half. That's a big difference.

That's why if you are running high-tech tanks with all the bells and whistles you need to push the co2 based on visuals and not charts.

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I am with you on the pushing the CO2. I think we are in simmilar ball parks of where the line of too much CO2 is on our fish. Isn't it amazing how much a small difference in Ph is to your CO2?

If I remember what my boss what telling me. Ph is exponetial. Therefore the closer you are to 7 the less of a swing it really is. At either end the swing gets bigger. I would have to look at my chem books to make sure if this is "true" or not but looking at that and our CO2 things get a little messy. I think I am getting a little over my head with this.

Guess I should do my home work now being I am brain fried with my hobby!

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Post InfoPosted 04-Jul-2006 19:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I still haven't totally fiqured out the pearling thing, but tonite I have massive pearling on my riccia. I actually didn't think it would happen with my wattage and the depth that the riccia is. The following are several pics of rams over pearling riccia. I don't think it get's much better than that.

Notice the pearling on the wisteria leaf as well.



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Male Blue Ram

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tetratech
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Here's a nice comparison shot of the blues and bolivians as they move about the tank together. Totally peaceful I guess until fry arrive:



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Post InfoPosted 05-Jul-2006 02:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here's a few nice closeups:



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Blue Male


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Post InfoPosted 05-Jul-2006 02:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Bolivian:



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EditedEdited by tetratech
The bolivians don't have as much color of course:
Yeah Ingo there's some bba on the rock behind the ram


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but the definitely have more personality:



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Very nice ram pictures. They look great. The bolivions are not as colorful as the blues but they are still a sharp fish.

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Post InfoPosted 05-Jul-2006 14:07Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Wings, The bolivans are definitely more interesting. One of mine is going to be two years old soon.

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tetratech
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Well I noticed my filter wasn't on this morning and I remembered unplugging it last nite to take a pic so that explains the riccia pearling. This happened a month or so ago and Bensaf explained the add'l oxygen available since the biofilter wasn't consuming it. So if you guys want to force some pearling why don't you give it a try. I would only recommend it on a fully planted tank though and you must proceed at your own risk.

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Great great great pictures, tetratech,

So clear and beautiful in color

Hey - I never said that there are inaccuracies in all kinds of things, like test kits and what not. All I said that the chemical relationship between ph and KH can be assumed a constant, meaning cross points will show proper CO2 values. Now, all the parts that may influence the proper values for the axis (ph and KH) is a completely different story. But I never claimed it was that simple, so no need to bash me for believing in the nature of chemistry

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Post InfoPosted 06-Jul-2006 13:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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But I never claimed it was that simple, so no need to bash me for believing in the nature of chemistry

Me no bash you Little_Fish

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*Stands back so I can get a good view of tetra and LF swinging their purses at each other*


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Post InfoPosted 07-Jul-2006 04:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Hey now,

That is a Man-Purse from Europe (but I guess you don't know Seinfeld, so that may not make sense to you).

Anyway tetratech, all is good on the Ram frontier? I wonder if you can credit the UV for this one as well? Would make sense to me, at least.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
That is a Man-Purse from Europe (but I guess you don't know Seinfeld, so that may not make sense to you).


I prefer "European Carry All" Bensaf you know you have one. That's why your always getting into trouble in Indonesia.

LF,
The rams seem fine, this Thursday will be a month, but you never know with blue rams. Yes I do think the UV has something to do with it along with a very good biofilter.
Many fish have a tendency to get infections and as Untitled pointed out that is probably what you fish died of. But the believe the key is not necessarily to get fish that don't have these infections (which is probably pretty hard to do) but to keep it suppressed in the same way we keep algae spores suppressed.

Thing about all animals including us have a tendency to get infections if we are stressed enough. Most of the time these things are suppressed but when we go to far off center the infections come. Come to thing of it, isn't that the way it is with Algae. Isn't Bensaf always saying the algae spores are always there. We just have to keep them suppressed by not given them the conditions they want.

Untitled might have access to a good breed of fish maybe the water is better who knows but I haven't lost a cardinal since I could remember. I still have all 23. Here's a pic of the happy couple:



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Post InfoPosted 08-Jul-2006 14:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yes I do think the UV has something to do with it along with a very good biofilter.
I guess if I ever would like to have Rams again then this is something I should try. Although, wouldn't that mean that I have to change my filtration setup (too powerfull in GpH) for the big tank, plus, wouldn't I need one on the QT as well (which has only a HOB)?

Also, not that I question it, but what makes your biofilter very good?

And, nice shot of the rams, you will soon scramble for a breeding tank

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Post InfoPosted 09-Jul-2006 11:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi tetratech

Beautiful tank & fish pictures.
The Bolivians are definitely more interesting.
I'm interested what you mean by this. What do the Bolivians do that is more interesting than the other rams?

Cheers
TW
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Thanks Robyn,

The bolivians seem to show more of a "pet" personality always interacting with me at the front of the tank compared to the blue rams.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Jul-2006 14:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Also, not that I question it, but what makes your biofilter very good?


ABout 60 pounds of wisteria, I'd say...


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Post InfoPosted 09-Jul-2006 22:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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ABout 60 pounds of wisteria, I'd say...
'
Who's counting, but I think it's more like 68 pounds .

Anyway, here's a full shot from tonite. Not my greatest scaping moment, but everything going fine with the tank.
In this pick the stargrass is too low and the rotala and aromatica too tall.

Speaking of wisteria. I'm noticing that the lower levels are leaving the substrate and pushing some of the wisteria up alittle to much. In the left side of the tank some of the wisteria is almost a foot tall when you count all the layers. After 9 months or so I might have to start pulling some out and replanting.



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Another plant that is probably at it's fullest since getting it is the Blyxa. It seems to have finally gotten comfortable in the tank. Still green, but it's pretty lush. I might have to make room for a too grow some more.



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On the other hand I've sorta given up on the rotala wallachi. Not that it won't grow but it really doesn't fit so I've sort of let the wisteria outcompete for space and light. I think I'll probably look for a low wide plant that can grow about the jungle of wisteria as Bensaf mentioned. The pearling is just fanastic almost a frenzy of sorts with bubbles everywhere. Here's a pic of the Rotala doing it's thing.



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I think the tank looks as good as it always did (except maybe during the green water / willow branch phase).

I don't find the Wisteria on the left too tall yet, but I see where you are coming from. In general, I think having one side of the tank ending higher than the other is a good thing.

Sorry to hear that the wallachi doesn't seen to work out, but hey, gives you a nice reason to buy a new species, without increasing the number of species overall.

Glad to hear that the Blyxa is doing fine, the few small stems that I added to my 40G seem to settle nicely as well. I bet you that your removal of the big rock and the trimming back of the main group, resulting in more light, has a lot to do with it.

Nice job as usual, tetratech,

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Post InfoPosted 10-Jul-2006 02:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think the tank looks as good as it always did (except maybe during the green water / willow branch phase).

What you didn't like the GW / Willow thing.
Thanks, but I think my tank looks best with a tighter mound arrangement, but everyone sees different things.

Yep, your probably right about the blyxa and the rock/trimming. Keeping enough light on it consistenty is the key to keeping it growing and clean.





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Check out this guy. Right in the co2 stream. You could actually see the stream going around the oto. Does the tubing like familiar? Probably the same stuff you have. It's starting to be a pain-in-the-you-know-what. I came home from work again and the bubbles were coming out of the contact point between the tubing and the diffusor. This is a serious issue that I'll have to fix soon because I know the fluctating co2 will lead to BBA.

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First the fish thought the diffuser was a toilet bowl, now an Otto that thinks it's a jacuzzi

About the tubing, how about of those plastic tie things, sorry can't remember what they're called, you know the ones you pull tight and they can't be pulled back open. Like the plastic handcuffs the cops use now (why do I know that )


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About the tubing, how about of those plastic tie things, sorry can't remember what they're called

That's a really good idea and they come in black too.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2006 14:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Have you also tried dipping the end of the tube in hot water so it expands and loosens, then push it onto the diffuser as far as possible? Once it cools down the tubing will contract and should form a tight seal.


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Good idea Nowher. I have had the problem of lossing the seal in my tank too.

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To bring CO2 to my reactor I use a gasoline hose that normally is used for miniature airplanes They are very ... eh ... rubber-ish (? - I really can't come up with the right word right now, it's past midnight and I'm leaving on a 10 day vacation tomorrow at 5 am) and resistant to the acidic breakdown that you get with the "normal" airhoses. I've had it in the tank now for 1½ years and it still is as good as new.
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I would think that "fusing" a tube to a diffuser is not the best idea as it would render the elements hitched forever. That would be bad if you would try to clean the diffuser in bleach (which I don't do anymore, at least since the last 6 weeks, as Excel is working well).

This is the old problem of wanting it both ways: attached enough so it doesn't come off, but not enough to be stuck on it for good.

Ingo

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Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2006 23:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I would think that "fusing" a tube to a diffuser is not the best idea

I agree, but did I miss something, who said that?
To be honest I didn't have any of these problems when I was using Lee's stealth Black tubing. I've probably go back to that. The bubble intensity seemed the same. Maybe it will just need to be changed more often as it will breakdown.

Anyway I temporarily, solved the problem by using a different airline tubing "Topline Silicone Air Line Tubing"
It's a lovely shade of blue as depicted below.




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Post InfoPosted 13-Jul-2006 01:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I would think that "fusing" a tube to a diffuser is not the best idea as it would render the elements hitched forever.
I use the hot water method to expand & then slip the tube on. It doesn't "fuse" just fits tight. While the fit is nice & tight, several times I have needed to remove the tubing & have always managed it (eg when I disconneded my DIY C02 - when I disconnected my air bubbles - when I added my solenoid). Yes, it may take longer (not much) to remove due to it's snug fit, but it's definitely not fused. Never used it to attach to delicate glass - that may be different. Nearly always used this method (not to glass), as the tubing I use is usually hard to get on in the first place, so hot water makes the installation easier. Anyway, just my $0.02

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Right on topic, last night when I came home my tubing was off again .

About the hot water: I understand the process, but does that mean that you have to use the hot water each time when you want to re-attach the tubing after you took it off for cleaning etc. ?

Last night I just stuck it back on, I think I will either try tetratech's double sucktion cup attempt or I will change it this weekend (hopefully when the plants are here) and put the gray ADA tubing in place.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
So far I have not had to clean my bubble counter, it has never been dirty, but I did have to remove the tubing when I installed the solenoid. It came off, but with enough of a struggle that it would be a nuisance if you had to do it every week. When I clean my C02 reactor, the lid comes off, complete with the tubing attached. I agree that it would be a big hassle, if I couldn't do that, as the tubing does fit very snugly after being heated. If I had to regularly remove tubing from something, you're right that I may think twice about making it such a tight fit.

Point goes to Ingo

Apart from that point, though, it is actually how LFS told me to do it & I know I get a much more secure fit than by just pushing it on.

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About the hot water: I understand the process, but does that mean that you have to use the hot water each time when you want to re-attach the tubing after you took it off for cleaning etc.


I did when I had the CO2 tank set up, but I really never saw the big deal about sticking a glass of water in the microwave for a minute while the tank was draining Not that much work IMO and it did the job.

I guess for a diffuser you can make the argument it's unnecessary, but for conecting tubing to a cannister filter and to a UV, and in situations where you're splitting the tubing a few times I think it's vital to heat up the ends to get as secure a fit as possible. I know I couldn't push the tubes onto fittings dry as far as I could when they were heated.


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After around 4 1/2 weeks all seems fine with the blue rams.
Here's a current pic. The pearling is after a water change but it makes a nice pic nontheless:



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Just when you think it's under control
Total was the first day in about a week where I had consistent co2 diffusion. In other words the hose didn't come off the glass tip, but this brought a few problems to light. Firstly I noticed some strange behavior with my fish and shrimp. Some of the pencils and the rainbow fish were at the top definitely gasping. The bolivians and the amano shrimp turned almost black. One of my otos doesn't look too good. It also was the first time I saw all my otos and I counted 9, but it maybe 8 after tonite. My conclusion for this that the co2 numbers were gradually decreasing over the week because of the problems with the tubing and now today it was at full tilt and the fish couldn't handle it. As I've mentioned before when I acclimate new fish now I notice they gasp if they are acclimated at nite so this definitely makes sense.

Upon a closer examination of the tank I noticed an increase in BBA and on plant leaves (aromatica) that I never had before. This I believe was also caused by the reduction in co2. So a little problem like a tube coming off a diffusor can create some pretty big issues. It's all about small changes.

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From an aquascaping standpoint here's the tank tonite. A couple of things:

Wisteria:
I removed all the wisteria from the left side of the tank and replanted fresh tops. These is the first time I've done this since setting up the tank more than 9 months ago. The wisteria was so layered it was starting to look kinda ratty. The wisteria just from the left side filled a bucket. I resisted uprooting the wisteria on the right as well. BTW I don't know if this contributed to the BBA problem I saw, but it certainty didn't help and wasn't the best time to have done this in retrospect. I've noticed before there is a fine line between controlling BBA and the consistency of the co2 output.

Blyxa:
Since I thinned out the wisteria on the left I decided to give the blyxa some more room to spread it's wings so I have about 7 bunches going on an angle toward the large rock.

Rotala R.
I expanded this group as well wrapping it around the center DW and along the front and side of the left group of stargrass.

Here's a pic from tonite:





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Here's a pic showing the tank tonite (Lower pic) with a pic when grow was fuller creating a nice mound effect. To each their own, but I think the top pic show my tank in it's full glory.



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Nothing more to say, other than SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL

Cheers
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Still looking real good.

The change to both the Rotala and the wisteria were good moves.

Thinning the Wisteria has certainly added more depth.


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I agree with the posters before me, looking very nice, and a change is (almost) always good.

I hear you on the darn diffuser thing, last night when I came home the one in my 40G completely fell off again . I find it more of a specific diffuser size issue than a tubing issue, as the blue tube in my 125 never ever came off, but the diffuser is one with 8 coils . The one in the 40G has this glass weight inside that works like a bubble counter, the gas has to push it up to pass by on the side of it. This may cause enough back-pressure to further increase the need for expansion in the tubing, and as such the losening of the hose.

About your tank, yeah - wrapping was a nice idea,and giving the fancy (compared to Wisteria) Blyxa more space to shine is also a good thing. I am certain your main group will grow to resemble the earlier appearance very closely.

Nice tank, my fellow planter

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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2006 13:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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well I certainly appreciate all the accolades

Nothing more to say, other than SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL
Still looking real good.
Nice tank, my fellow planter

..and of course nowher who's a man of few words:


LF,
About the diffusor, If you put a suction cup on the tubing above the diffusor and a then give it some slack it doesn't pull from the top as much. That's what I've done and it's been good for a couple of days now.

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You know you're a planted tank nerd when you spend the better part of a week discussing the ramifications of attaching tubing to a diffuser this way or that...


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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2006 15:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The older tank shot really shows off the colors you have produced nicely but I truly love the rotala grouping around the drift wood. It is kind of a sub-mound which makes it a little more interesting.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2006 20:34Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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The older tank shot really shows off the colors you have produced nicely but I truly love the rotala grouping around the drift wood. It is kind of a sub-mound which makes it a little more interesting.

Yes I would agree with that. The top of the aromatica in the older shot really colored up. Might be all I can manage with my wattage.

I find the rotala r one of the easiest plants to trim and work with. It doesn't has a good solid feel to it and it doesn't grow outrageously fast, while the stargrass grows fast and tends to get "messy" very quickly. The aromatica wideleaf is a great plant but you must use your hands to plant it's heavy stems even in the eco.

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A couple of foreground shots:



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A closer look of the riccia covered rocks:



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A shot of the Riccia thru the expanded Blyxa group from the left side of the tank. Gives a nice rugged carpet look.


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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 02:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You're welcome

And it's so nice to see your face at last in the new AV. Funny but you look just like I thought you would !


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Very nice shots Tetra. Riccia sure is a nice plant. It works really well with your tank. You only started with an inch square of the stuff didn't you?

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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That is the other enhancement that I see, when comparing the tank now to earlier:

Not only has the riccia grown, you also gave it more structure, in particular height diversion. Earlier, it was more of a flat row, like a saussage

Funny but you look just like I thought you would !


Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2006 14:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Wings,
Yep. They sold it by the square inch at the LFS. Had enough to thinly cover two small stones. Never bought anymore.

LF,
Yeah I really like the riccia. If you use different height rocks the riccia grows about the same above each rock so the different heights develop. The rocks are probably due for a trim. I could definitely see what some people do riccia only tanks. I honestly find it really easy to work with as long as you use hairnets

Glad you guys like the new av. Yeah I though it was a pretty good self portrait.

P.S. In case you guys are interested I did start my Reef Log: http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/30106.1.htm?8#
There are some parallels to planted aquaria so you might be able to contribute something

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O.K. I had to move things around for the addition of the reef tank. The new tank is going to go in the bedroom where my 12g currently is so that meant I had to find a new home for it. Well I always wanted a "Wet Bar" and now I have one. The 12g is now located in my kitchen that houses a small bar.



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Here's a closer shot:



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Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 02:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Tetra,

I am really blown away from your shots! The last one is the best. It shows off both of your tanks but the veiw of your 72 is extra great. It gives you a better perspective than just the strait on veiw we normaly give each other. Must say that it is quite artistic.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 03:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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That last photo is the best shot I've seen of your main tank. I really do wish you showed a bit more light in your tank photo's - I always get the feeling the pics don't do the tank justice.

BTW, what's the monkey staring at


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 04:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the comments. I had a feeling that last shot was a good one. Wings once you get your camera you'll be taking nice shots as well.

I really do wish you showed a bit more light in your tank photo's - I always get the feeling the pics don't do the tank justice.

Well I'll tell you why my shots are usually on the darkside I can't take shots during the day, because my tank faces the western back of my house and faces a sliding door and window which produce to much glare to get a clean photo. This is also when my tank is running the 192watts. Most of the photos I take are with only 96watts of light, so I could probably get better photos by making sure all the lights are on or forcing more light on top. Also my camera is limited with a top ISO setting of 400. Some of the SLR cameras go much higher in ISO setting allowing better photos with less light.


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So on a different note.... Tetra, you have rams in this tank and shrimp. Do your rams ever go after the shrimp? I am kind of thinking of adding a curvacep to my tank but I don't want to have it make a snack out of my Cherry shrimp. Any thoughts?

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 14:57Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bratyboy2
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havent been here in god knows how long but everything looks great in my opinion!!! anywho keep it up but in my opinion i really like the more fuller look to the tank really shows off the height and length of it

keep it going master tank designer...BENSAF BETTER GET A LOG UP HERE SOON TO COMEPETE!!!
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EditedEdited by tetratech
So on a different note.... Tetra, you have rams in this tank and shrimp. Do your rams ever go after the shrimp? I am kind of thinking of adding a curvacep to my tank but I don't want to have it make a snack out of my Cherry shrimp. Any thoughts?

My cherry shrimps are all in my 12g with a school of Gold Tetras and kuli loaches so there are no problems there. In my 72g I have only Amano Shrimp and the Rainbows, Bolivians and Blues don't even look at them.


keep it going master tank designer...BENSAF BETTER GET A LOG UP HERE SOON TO COMPETE!!!

Thanks Bratyboy2. Yeah Bensaf

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Ahh I thought you had some Cherry's in this tank but I was wrong. Thanks for the info. Sorry to post random question on your log.


55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 13:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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BENSAF BETTER GET A LOG UP HERE SOON TO COMPETE!!!


I don't need a log. I let this do the talking

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

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yeppers looks good!!!! all hale to BENSAF
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That's one hell of a hotch-potch
Very lush. Don't get me wrong the tank works because of the plant placement and different textures next to it, but any chance of alittle more DW peaking thru.

Bensaf I forget how deep is your tank. I'm surprised your able to grow the plants so full and overlapping each other with your light. Have you increased wattage overall?

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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
Not so much worried about the hodge podge of plants, but the fish...

What do we have: 1 bosmani rainbow , one dwarf neaon rainbow, some r. hengali, rummynose tetras, pearl gourami, cherry barbs a few otos and a partridge in a pear tree...


.. no wait, not a partridge in a pear tree... a krib it appears.

Hey, at least you're a good selector of plants...


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EditedEdited by bensaf
The picture is a couple of weeks old. I've tidied up a bit since. There's a lot of wood in there, about 7 decent sized pieces. Most have become overgrown with Ferns and mosses. Showing more of the wood will be a big job. I will be moving by the end of the year so this tank will be a thing of the past In the meantime I don't want to do any major re-organising and will just let it do it's thing.

It's a fairly deep and tall tank. It's a about 22" deep so it does allow a lot of overlapping. Although if I had to do it again I'd push everything back and have a more open forground. I'd also have done the wood and rocks differently so as they stay visible. Envisioning how a tank will look 6 donths down the road and taking that into account is something I'm only starting to learn.

Because of the tank size and the way the plants are arranged I did add another couple of T5 bulbs at the back . This was more for light spread rather then more intensity. With one fixture lots of the tank wasn't getting light. Theres now about 186watts whaich is about 2.8 wpg.

Nowhere, you're right about the fish -it's a mess of a selection. But this tank has been going in various forms for 3 years now and there are a few fish that hung on where their bretheren have since gone to the aquarium in the sky. Should really find a good home for the odd guys out. I'd like to stick with the school of rummies and pencil fish ,there are larges schools in there but they were obviously camera shy, the Gouramies and maybe the Krib and get rid of the rest. It does distract from the overall look.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 22-Jul-2006 04:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Because of the tank size and the way the plants are arranged I did add another couple of T5 bulbs at the back . This was more for light spread rather then more intensity. With one fixture lots of the tank wasn't getting light. Theres now about 186watts whaich is about 2.8 wpg.
Your overall wattage is pretty much what I have (2.7wpg) although your tank is 4" deeper. How are those T5 bulbs in comparison to the same wattage CF?

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EditedEdited by tetratech
A couple of select shots:

The ricca foreground is in full bloom and will probably need to trimmed soon. Besides looking nice the rainbows, rams and shrimp feed off of it constantly and it really hasn't done much damage to it.


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A closer shot:



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Moving further away, here's a full tank shot: Check out the little piece of wisteria that made it's way under the main rock and appears in the riccia group.



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Post InfoPosted 24-Jul-2006 04:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And a shot even further away of the "Fish Kitchen"



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Tetra,

I really like the pictures of both tanks with you standing back a bit. You really get a different perspective. Very neat.

Rick
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tetratech
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Thanks Slickrb. It's interesting to see different perspectives. You pick up alot of things you wouldn't ordinary realize.

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Tetratech,

I like your fish-kitchen-tank shot and the one where you cut off the top part of the 72. That one looks almost as it would have the dimensions of a 125 and I can easily imagine what a beautiful layout this would be in such a large tank.

I am almost sure that you are toying with the thought of removing your main group and instead having a typical "less-is-more" Amano style tank, with such a lovely Riccia setup.

Ingo


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Boy LF, talk about "cold turkey" I was getting worried about you. This place is like a ghost town without your 10.9 posts per day average.

I am almost sure that you are toying with the thought of removing your main group and instead having a typical "less-is-more" Amano style tank, with such a lovely Riccia setup.

You know me so well I would love to do that. Maybe I should skip the reef and do that with my 46g. Only kidding Matty, but I would love to have another tank to try that. Maybe if I get bored with my 12g I'll convert it to a co2 higher-light tank.

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It's not a bad idea, but in order to pull if off I think you'd need to add more substrate and get some taller rocks in there. The 72 is pretty tall for a riccia/ hairgrass/ rocks Amano set-up, I think they work best in longer shallow tanks.


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That is why I liked the picture where the top is cut off, it makes the tank more longish and shallow. I agree that the 73 (and the 12) would probably create too much empty space. My 40G would be much better suited for it, so hand over the Riccia rocks

Ingo

PS: I guess I take the ghost town comment as a compliment , sorry I was so busy at work


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40G would be much better suited for it, so hand over the Riccia rocks

Yeah I see what you mean about the long shallow tank. Do you see what riccia is going for these days. I'm rich, I tell ya, rich, rich....

PS: I guess I take the ghost town comment as a compliment , sorry I was so busy at work

Absolutely.

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I'm rich, I tell ya, rich, rich....
No - NowherMan6 is Rich, you are Jeff

I guess my absence made you all very confused



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No no Ingo, that's OK - he can be Rich with the 4gallon nano if he says so. I'll be Jeff with the awesome riccia foreground and new saltwater tank. Woohoo!


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Ingo,


No no Ingo, that's OK - he can be Rich with the 4gallon nano if he says so. I'll be Jeff with the awesome riccia foreground and new saltwater tank. Woohoo!

ADA aquasoil, I'm rich, I tell you, rich, rich....


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Ahh it seems that the grass or should I say the planted tanks are always greener on the other side!

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well it's been a fun night I came home from work to find a my son complaining of a leak in his ceiling because we've been running the AC 24/7 and then I find my bolivian ram almost black in color sitting on the bottom of the substrate and my male german ram swimming out of control turning end over end.

I've been having trouble lately with my regulator and I think it's damaged or I damaged the low pressure gauge but there was definitely to much co2 in the water. I immediately raised my spray bar out of the water, shut off the co2 and did a 30% water change. Hopefully I caught it in time. I guess eventually something has to happen

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Glad you caught it in time. Keep us posted on your rams & if they fully recovered.

Cheers
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Thanks Robyn, I think I did. Both blue rams are swimming around together like nothing happened and my male Bolivian looks a little better, but I haven't been able to locate the female yet.

About an hour ago the blue ram was swimming aimlessly getting caught up in the plants. I've seen this happen when I tried to acclimate new fish at nite when the co2 was at it's highest. After leaving the bag the fish would immediately go to the surface and when I put them back in the bag they would recover. I guess that confirms I'm running pretty high on the co2.

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Tetratech,

Glad to hear that you see to have corrected the issue in time, did you find the female by now?

What exactly is the problem with your regulator, given that I have the same. BTW, I also have the self-made version from Aquariumplants.com, the one that is about $40 more expensive. Although I can tell that the needle valve threading is better and you can adjust the flow more easily, I still had the same issues (and occasionally still do now) where it adjusts itself, down and up.

About the high CO2: I know that you are one of the most careful Acclimators that I know of. Wouldn't you have driven up the CO2 content in the bag to almost tank levels during that phase? Or can it be that the drip method gives the CO2 (in tiny bubble form) enough time to dissolve before it mixes into the bag water (via exposure to air of the small drops that are added)?

Ingo


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What exactly is the problem with your regulator, given that I have the same. BTW, I also have the self-made version from Aquariumplants.com, the one that is about $40 more expensive. Although I can tell that the needle valve threading is better and you can adjust the flow more easily, I still had the same issues (and occasionally still do now) where it adjusts itself, down and up.

Two things, one I somewho broke the right (low pressure) gauge. It registers pretty much off the scale to the right and the adjustment does not feel right. Like it's not threading correctly. I think I did the damage when I opened the cylinder valve and forgot to open the adjustment knob. BTW last week I refilled my co2 cylinder for the third time and I think I just refilled it two months ago, so something is amiss.

About the high CO2: I know that you are one of the most careful Acclimators that I know of. Wouldn't you have driven up the CO2 content in the bag to almost tank levels during that phase? Or can it be that the drip method gives the CO2 (in tiny bubble form) enough time to dissolve before it mixes into the bag water (via exposure to air of the small drops that are added)?

I did think the same thing, but I probably lost alot of co2 when I removed the water from the tank to put in the bags. Although I acclimated for about 2 hours, apparantly it wasn't enough. In retrospect, the water is dripping into the bag thru the air and probably dispelling much of it's co2 content.

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So when you set up a drip line you do not have it running right into the water colume in the bucket?

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 27-Jul-2006 17:21Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
So when you set up a drip line you do not have it running right into the water colume in the bucket?

I was actually filling a tall bowl of water from the tank and placing it on top of the glass top. From that tall bowl it would drip into the floating bag, but to answer you question it was dripping above the water column in the bag because I wanted to see the rate. When I started doing the drip method I wasn't running my co2 nearly as high and I didn't really think about it. Now when I acclimate I'll have to make sure the tubing is below the WC (water column, not water change so I don't lose the co2.

BTW - I think I dodged a bullet. All my fish are accounted. I really thought one of the rams was a gonna. Recovery from co2 OD is alot different than a disease.

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Oh good,

Glad to hear all are well. Yeah, placing the hose below the water surface may help. So you say you take water out of the tank and place it in a bowl? This way, you may already have lost a lot of CO2 through surface agitation and such.

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I am with LF. Go strait from the tank to the bag and bucket.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Jul-2006 02:25Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yep, makes since to preserve the co2 some more. As I said when I first started doing drip acclimation I wasn't running co2 like I am now so it didn't matter.



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Glad to see everything turned out OK. I had similar experiences with acclimating new fish in the old 46 - I had a sparkling gourami try jumping out of the tank I guess that's the ultimate sign to pull back on the CO2 a bit...


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Post InfoPosted 28-Jul-2006 03:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I had a sparkling gourami try jumping out of the tank I guess that's the ultimate sign to pull back on the CO2 a bit...

Yeah I was say a fish doing somersaults or jumping out of a the tank is a good indicator

Anyway some random pics:

This is a shot of the foreground showing the wisteria crawling through openings in the rock and then appearing on the other side. I leave it few seems to make things more interesting.

Attached Image:


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A closer shot of the wisteria breaking the beachfront:



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Post InfoPosted 29-Jul-2006 02:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Stargrass is a beautiful plant, but I must admit I'm getting alittle tired of the maintenance (Is there a chnage coming). It simply grows to fast (Gotta be top 10 grower), but at a certain point it looks great, but it only last a day or two before it grows to too (Right Ingo). It's tough to beat for it's contrasting leaf shapes and ability to cascade over other plants and objects:







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Well I have to show the rams, since they were almost history. A fish doing somersaults is usually not a good sign, but they both seem fine:



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Here's the male that I thought was a gonna:



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And his main and only squeeze:



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Post InfoPosted 29-Jul-2006 02:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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wow your blue rams are real diferent to mine. mine have shorter stockyer bodys and much more blue. whats that puffy looken plant in the forground...i wants some
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(Right Ingo)
Right - I completely agree with your statement. I debate with myself rather often if I should replace the plant with another one, ripping my roughly 70 to 100 stems out every 2 to 3 weeks, cutting off the rotting bottoms, and replanting all tops in bunches is very high maintenance, not to mention the water pollution caused by the rotting.

Wisteria: creeping to the beach. Looks nice because it looks natural, but it carries a danger. Because it is literally creeping up on you, you have to be careful to catch it in the right moment and trim it back, before it causes shading of the Riccia.

Beachfront shot: Hey - there are more rocks that scream "I want to have some Riccia too"

Surviving Rams:

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Post InfoPosted 29-Jul-2006 12:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Beachfront shot: Hey - there are more rocks that scream "I want to have some Riccia too

No way, some rocks must remain just rocks for constrast.

A couple of full tank shots from tonite. I'm 100% convinced the high co2 I'm running eliminates virtually all plant problems, although I'm running a fine line between fish and co2. When the co2 goes down based on inconsistency the BBA opened a door and came in, with the co2 high and steady the bba just disappears.



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Although I'm happy with the tank and I've said I was done, I'm thinking I might "refresh" things in the near future.



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I'm thinking I might "refresh" things in the near future
That's our form of fun and demise , we just cannot keep our hands out of the tanks, and I am the leader of that pack.

As usual, tank looks nice, although I have to say that currently you have a triangle again, with a cut off section all the way to the left.

I don't know if I dare to fire up my CO2 as high as you do, the thin line seems to be very thin, it would make me worried all the time.

How are the rainbows doing?

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That's our form of fun and demise , we just cannot keep our hands out of the tanks, and I am the leader of that pack.

Yes I would agree with that statement

The rainbows are fine. I actually like the two of them they school (semi-private lessons) quite nicely, but Bensaf said they were light waste producers. As you probably know these guys like their food and seem to be pooping alot enough through I'm a Micro-Feeder.



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Have the rainbows gotten you wet during feeding time yet? Mine do about every day!

Lighting: I had no idea you were not running a 4 food ficture on your tank. That is quite interesting to me.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 14:42Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Lighting: I had no idea you were not running a 4 food ficture on your tank. That is quite interesting to me.


Do you mean 4 tube fixture?

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No I thought you had a 4 foot CL not a 3 footer.

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NowherMan6
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yeah tetra, I'm lazy (and at work ) so I don't want to go back and read - what didn't you go for the coralife 48" fixture?


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 20:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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No I thought you had a 4 foot CL not a 3 footer.
I don't have any Clown Loaches

Anyway I think it's funny after 72 pages you guys didn't realize what kind of light I had. r
After doing enough research and using my experience from my old 46G I did not want to have the light that the 48" reflector offered. It would have given me about 3.6wpg. I wanted to be closer to 3.0wpg and the 36" reflector gave me 2.7wpg. BTW I started off with a current usa 36" reflector and one of the ballast broke and replaced it with the Coralife fixture. A much better product. The Current USA fixture I had was so cumbersome with 4 plugs(2 light, 2 fans and an idiotic night light right in the middle where the tank support goes. S

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What?

You have a 4 foot long Clown Loach?



That's how rumours start.

Although I did never have a different brand of CF lighting, I second the notion that the CoraLife fixtures are very good, and on top reasonably priced. I have 3 and I am constantly wondering if I should get another one for the 20G, but that may give it too much light (3.25wpg), but that is how much I like it.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
That's an interesting solution. I'm having a similar problem - I wish they made the 96 watt bulbs in a 48" fixture Tough I guess if you had the 48" fixture you could have gone with 2 bulbs for most of the time, then have a 3hr spurt with all four on, kind of a noontime sort of thing...

EDIT: Just realized I wrote that as if there was a problem with what you have now


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 22:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well in a perfect world if I got the 48" maybe my aromatica would be more red, but what can I say, you have to take the good with the bad. I'm not complaining, but maybe now my tank can handle the add'l wattage. Anyway right now my noon time burst is about 6 hours. So I have 96watts from 9:30 to 12:00, 192 watts from 12:00 to 6:00 and then 96 watts from 6:00 to 8:30.

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CL.... opps!

You know what I meant though!

I see your resoning with the light. I am sure if I would have took the time to think about it then it would have sunk in. Though I did nothing of the sort.

If you went with either of the 4 footers then you would have 1.8 or 3.6 thus too much or not enough. Going with the shorter fixture works. In my case I think I am lucky running 3.25 all the time. I probably would have been better off to run t5's.

Anyways... sorry about all the craziness!



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 00:09Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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From a visual point of view I think it does look nicer whe nthe fixture is all the way across and lifted by arms an inch or so, something I can't do. I'm still debating whether I should add the full canopy to the top to give it a more built-in appearance. I used to have this on my 46g which LF hated. I would agree on that tank it look alittle tall, but on the 72g it might look good, although it will be a pain considering all the times I have my hands in the tank, so full canopys and hi-tech planted tanks probably don't mix. I could actually suspend the light from the top, but then the wires will still go down. Coralife sells a suspension cable for their CF light fixtures.

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 01:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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A Riccia Balloon?

The post-waterchange pearling on my riccia apparently his lifted this group off it's rock. It was obviously overdue for a trim but the o2 bubbles are trying to take it to it's natural place at the surface.





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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 01:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yes I would agree with that statement

Well I was also guilty of that at the weekend. Everything in the tank was growing forward towards the glass so I decided to thin things out and make a few changes, and tetra, will be glad to know, make the driftwood a bit more visible.

Anyhows I went to the aquatic market to pick up a few things. A very strange collection of fish was available some of which I couldn't name at all. But I did see one thing that horrified me - Balloon Red Rainbows



Yep, what at first glance looked like balloon mollies were in fact stumpy balloon Irian Jaya Rainbows. One of the most beautiful freshwater fishes available reduced to a stumpy little freak. ARRRR Expect to see them in the US in the coming months and don't buy them.

Did have some young Indian Glassfish which were very very pretty and tempting , but I already have a hotch potch of fish.


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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 04:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech - Not only is your Riccia beautiful , it also has a built in warning system informing you when it is time for a trim. Couldn't get any better

Bensaf - Yeah, I hate it when they do this to fish, I wonder who would buy them and why. On a slightly different topic, have you ever seen or had any of the various Rice Fishies? They seem to be a cute bunch, and small on top of it. What do you know about them?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 13:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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might have been already said but in the left hand corner up front is that hair grass? or the blyxe
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Well I was also guilty of that at the weekend. Everything in the tank was growing forward towards the glass so I decided to thin things out and make a few changes, and tetra, will be glad to know, make the driftwood a bit more visible.

"A picture is worth a thousand words"

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EditedEdited by tetratech
The riccia has really taken off lately, literally. I think it's because it's getting more light (more seperation between backgroud and foreground plants. Here's a shot of my female ram getting some veggies:



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This stuff crawls:



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A picture is worth a thousand words"


That will come in time. Got to let it recover from a severe hacking. I do like it though, got more shape and depth now.

You know you are doomed to have Riccia forever after, whether you want it or not !

I got rid of mine almost a year ago but it still pops up. Even now. After I thinned out the Xmas moss which had got too thick I found pieces of Riccia in the middle stuck to the wood and still living. It's turning bright green again now. Pretty indestructible.


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You know you are doomed to have Riccia forever after, whether you want it or not !

Your probably right. I actually got lazy once and cut the riccia in the tank, but I quickly netted most of the pieces, but I'm sure there are pieces floating around. When it's healthy, it sure is pretty....

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Mosses are another good way to "plant" your Riccia, they almost form a symbiosis - The moss serves as the anchor for the growing Riccia. It the Riccia is growing too muc, the moss gets shaded too much and starts to die off, which, in turn, will cause the Riccia on it to float up and as such giving more light to the moss to regrow.

At least that is how it is in theory

On the other hand, my Riccia - Moss mix on the rocks of Rock Valley causes too much dying material underneath and on top of it created a beautiful breeding ground for BGA.

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tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Mosses are another good way to "plant" your Riccia, they almost form a symbiosis - The moss serves as the anchor for the growing Riccia. It the Riccia is growing too muc, the moss gets shaded too much and starts to die off, which, in turn, will cause the Riccia on it to float up and as such giving more light to the moss to regrow.
Sounds interesting, but is there a fine line between it looking good and looking like a mess.

Anyway, since you guys are so keen on talking about dward cichlids does anyone thing this comparison shot (not the best I know) of my bolivian is simply young versus old. He just doesn't look like he used to and the rams have stopped breeding. The top pic is about a year ago and he was fullier and rounder the bottom one is fairly current.

EDIT: Also his eye in the bottom shot looks much bigger in relation to his body.


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The difference is certainly there - is that bright red spot on his gill normal?

Rams are short lived, most say 2-3 years. I don't know if that applies to bolivians as well. It's possible you may have gotten him when he was a almost a year old, and now he's an old man at 2


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Most sites are saying 2 to 4 years for Bolivians.

The red is more a flush. He doesn't really have that much red there. I had him in my 46g for quite some time, before this so it's possible I've had him for as much as 18months, plus his age when I purchased. he definitely wasn't full grown when I bought him. I'll have to see if I could find some eariler pics.

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Hey, he survived green water, willow twigs, and what not - what do you expect?

Seriously, is his body coloration always this dark these days? If I am not mistaken, doesn't that indicate being scared or unhappy? It could, of course, also mean old age though.

Being so young in this hobby eleminates me from having experience with fish dying of old age, so I really cannot help there this much, sorry about that.

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Hey, he survived green water, willow twigs, and what not - what do you expect
You forgot brewery, yep he survived that as well.

He's not usually as dark as the pic, but he does get very dark and sits on the bottom when the Co2 is too high. He and the blue rams seem to be most affected. I guess he's just an old man.

I took this pic the other day showing lots of activity. I was able to count all my cardinals and they are all fine. I can't remember the last time I lost one. Again I really think the UV is a big in this regard.





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Nice Shot,

"Picknick at the Riccia Field"

Interestingly, I observed yesterday that the new male Apisto has a dark gray body coloration when scared, and there were a few times yesterday when this happened during transport and acclimatization.

Are you sure he is not scared of something? Did this start to happen after the Rainbows were added?

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EditedEdited by tetratech
It's possible. The only thing I've noticed lately is that my female blue ram has gotten more aggressive and is starting to bully the male (coloring not as good).

Oh, what a minute......

I think, yep part of his caudal fin tip is missing, someone's picking on him and I think it's the blue ram. Wow Ingo you know your "little" fish.

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Well Thanks,

Now, if we only would know why he gets picked at. It may be simply because he is getting old and can't move fast enough out of way anymore.

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Could be or just a littie overcrowded and the danger of mixing rams. Now that the blues have settled in I think they are laying down the law especially the female.

What do you think of putting the two blues in my 12g and and removing the loaches and gold tetras and just leaving the blues with the cherry shrimps. Ideally would like to get rid of my rummys, pencils and black neons, but some have been with me so long, I hate to give them back to a LFS.

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Give it a try, but I wouldn't feel safe mixing rams with cherries, they're just too small. Amanos, fine. Cherries? Could turn out bad.


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Your probably right about the cherries. See I need another tank. I have a 46g but that tank went to the darkside of the moss(still deciding on equipment) and I have a 5g in the garage. I need a "Fish Room"

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I am with NowherMan6 on the shrimp/Ram issue, might be too risky.

Otherwise, I think you have reached (or even surpassed) the point of saturation. Of course we all will go and tell you to get an additional tank , and I am sure that NowherMan6 and I would come all the way to LI to persuade your wife that this is the only "right" way, but you have to let us swim in the pool, and a dinner wouldn't be too bad either

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but you have to let us swim in the pool

Well if you guys ever take a road trip, I'll be more than happy to accomodate.

I forgot about my son's guppy tank, but that ones overloaded with guppies, two zebra fish that never die and a Bristlenose. That is the one tank in my house that almost never gets a water change (just topoff) and everything is fine. One of the zebras gets a swollen belly and it looks like it's gonna pop and then next thing I know the belly looks normal and it does the same thing a few weeks down the road.

It's a ten gallon with a stanard tubelight.



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Ideally would like to get rid of my rummys, pencils and black neons, but some have been with me so long, I hate to give them back to a LFS.


Of such things are fish "hotch potches" born.


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 04:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Of such things are fish "hotch potches" born

Well since you didn't put up a pick I'll have to bore you with another one of mine. Sorry I don't have any thing exciting like double or triple purple/green apistos just good old fashioned PLANTED AQUARIA with my plain vanilla bolivian rams.

Anyway some nights the tank just has a little extra something and tonite was one of those nites. Don't know if it is communicated in this pic, but here it goes:



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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Sorry I don't have any thing exciting like double or triple purple/green apistos just good old fashioned PLANTED AQUARIA
Your blue rams are pretty exciting, especially as you're having such success with them, where they can be so difficult to keep alive. I can't find the courage to even try them.

And, your tank is a beautiful PLANTED AQUARIA.

Cheers
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Sorry I don't have any thing exciting like double or triple purple/green apistos just good old fashioned PLANTED AQUARIA with my plain vanilla bolivian rams.
Come on, you have some blue/yellow Rainbows in there, and many other colorful fishies.

You know what I would like to see in your tank that, for me, would bring it to the next level? Motion, or to say it more percise, the impression of motion. I have to think about it some more before I can explain exactly what I mean, I will keep you posted.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for the comments

You know what I would like to see in your tank that, for me, would bring it to the next level?

Are you thinking in photographic terms (ripple on the water, etc.)?:

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Yes, somewhere along these lines, although I haven't even thought about this particular option.

How to describe it? I will try:

When looking at your tank I see a focus group of tall stems surrounded by lower plants. It looks like a "still life" in the pictures.

Fish are not moving, and the only way I can think of displaying fish in motion is if they are in school formation and obviously are on route from one area to another.

Plants can show motion as well, for example thinner leaved sags, apons, crypts (spiralis), vals, and what not when swayed in the current. The capture of these swaying leaves in a picture still gives the impression of motion within the tank.

Last but not least, if you can show the water flowing (for example with your idea of water ripples), that would show motion as well.

I know that some of the contest winning tanks have no motion either, but most try to show that there is action, mostly with fish schooling and water movement.

I hope I explained it somewhat well,

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EditedEdited by tetratech
I hope I explained it somewhat well

Yes you did and I will work on it

So hard to please

EDIT: Actually what would probably help with motion is to get a large school of very small tetras. Like 50 or 60 Embers or something small and set them lose.

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Like 50 or 60 Embers or something small and set them lose.



And increase the bioload?!?!? Perish the thought!



Sorry, just having a little fun.

If anything up that school of cardinals I would think. The bioload contribution of the cardinals is pretty small, I think you can stand quite a few more without causing trouble.


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a large school of very small tetras. Like 50 or 60 Embers or something small
Now you are talking and you understand the beauty of 50 to 60 Espei. At about 1.25 to 1.5 inches, the perfect small schooling fish to show motion.

Remember my older pictures from the time when I had maybe only 40 of them? You could actually see how the school was on the move, forming an Autobahn along the tank.

NowherMan6 is just jealous, not too many schooling fish fit into a 4G

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If anything up that school of cardinals I would think. The bioload contribution of the cardinals is pretty small, I think you can stand quite a few more without causing trouble


Your talking to tetratech not LF Of course I would have to have a major fish sale before I added those.

To be honest I go back and forth with the cards. sometimes at night they seem to school nicely, but most of the time they are kinda hanging around. I thought maybe the rainbows would scare them alittle. I guess when your related to the Pirhana you don't scare easily.


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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
LF's experience with his Espei really made me think about the importance of choosing the right fish for a layout, and choosing the right number. Even though bioload-wise his tank was probably fine with the 70+ espei, behavior wise it took away from them a bit. There wasn't enough space for them to swim together and school back and forth. Now that their numbers are down, he commented in his log that he can see their natural behavior more, forming a school and mvoing around. On the other hand, if those were cardinals it probably wouldn't matter if there were 100 or 12, they would still just hang out and "flit" around, like cardinals do. Just a behavior thing, but something to be aware of when choosing fish.

I guess when your related to the Pirhana you don't scare easily


Was it in this log where I read about their teeth? I read somewhere that cardinals actually have a ton of sharp teeth like their cousins, but they're tiny, almost microscopic. Funny to think of those little neon fish that way, but they are related

NowherMan6 is just jealous, not too many schooling fish fit into a 4G


Ah yes, but how many will fit in the ~65 gallon 48X18 tank I picked up last night...? Alas, that's for a different log...


EDIT: Forgot to post my first reason for replying, LFs comments about capturing movement. Amano seems to have two ways of photographing tanks - one using a 200mm lens stopped down to f/16 or more to capture a lot of depth-of-field. This flatens out the scape, making it seem like there's less depth than there really is. The other way seems to be using wide angle lenses, and this seems to add the most drama. Notice that a lot of shots in the AGA contest seem to be taken from below the level of the bottom of the tank, looking upwards? Maybe give that a try. Just thinkin...


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Ah yes, but how many will fit in the ~65 gallon 48X18 tank I picked up last night...? Alas, that's for a different log...

Nowher hits back hard. Fresh off his success with his nano Nowher goes big. What kind of tank is the 65g

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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
It's an acrylic from glasscages. I was thinking earlier of doing an open top "Bensaf" type of tank deal, but crunching numbers the price of the tank+shipping wasn't worth it, it was just way too much for me to pay for a tank. This one has black bracing on it like an all-glass, but like I said, it's acrylic - so the possible scratch factor is there, but on the other hand it's very solid, very clean, very clear and the front corners are rounded so there's no messy silicone or anything. Shipping by UPS ground was 30 bucks. Altogether I paid less for this than a new 46 bowfront and the dimensions are great IMO - 48X18X17 (a little over). The footprint of a 75g, just shorter.


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Sounds like a great deal. I've seen that website.
You could get scratches out of acrylic, but it's a pain.


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Nothing more to say about tetratech's tank right now,

But glad to read that NowherMan6 is back in the "bigger" tank business. Can't wait to write my comments into the corresponding log then, just to mess with his mind - of course .

Congrats on the new tank

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EditedEdited by tetratech
I was looking for a pic of my bolivian cause I don't remember how old it is and I came across my 46g. This was one of my first attempts at scaping and there's my bolivan ram (in front of the moss covered DW). The pic is from 3/05. So I've had hime at least a year and a half.

Can anyone say Hygro? Robyn BTW the black top that LF hates is the canopy I was talking about, might get it for my 72g. On this tank it's a bit high, but it does make the tank look built-in and it does make the tank easier to see since the only light you see is in the aquarium.


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Can you say Angelfish? Every time someone asks, can I put a pair of angels in a 29 gallon tank, post this picture.

As for your ram, he has to be at least 2 then, right? That's getting "up there" in years for a ram...


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Can you say Angelfish? Every time someone asks, can I put a pair of angels in a 29 gallon tank, post this picture.

I've actually done that a few times and this of course is a 46g. This pic is I believe shows the Angelfish even older and bigger. Look how cramped he looks?



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Anyway some nights the tank just has a little extra something and tonite was one of those nites.


The problem with planted tanks is they they only look the height of their potential about 5% of the time. Especially those with stems.

You trim one group and another looks perfect, by the time the trimmed group is back to looking it's best the other group has now grown too tall It's on those rare moments when all the plants have reached just the right height and fullness at the same time that you get those magic moments. Within a day or two, one or more of the groups has got just a bit too tall and the mgic moment is gone.

Part of the joy and frustrating at the same time

I have to agree with Ingo, I've said it before, it is a bit like a still life and a bit cold. Almost too pretty.

Part of it may be the fish. Well for starters you can rarely see any in your photos. Cards and Neons are attractive but they bore the hell outta me. They just seem to sit there.

Strange looking at the old photos, while obviously your growing and 'scaping skills have increased dramatically, the old tanks did seem to have more life. The hardscape was more prominent, the plants a bit more ragged and natural looking.

Still love the tank. But you know already my tastes run a little different, I tend to overdo things. I focus on very small areas and build around them.

I suspect the photos still aren't doing full justice. I know I've never managed to take a single photo of my own tanks that are a fair representation of what the tank looks and "feels" like in reality.


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I know I've never managed to take a single photo of my own tanks that are a fair representation of what the tank looks and "feels" like in reality
That is so true. And on top of it, I believe on a photo other people cannot see what the person sees who made the picture, who knows the ins and outs of the tank, who has seen the tank from various angles and in 3D. That sometimes leads to confusion as the photographer wonders why others cannot detect the beauty/issue that he/she wants to convey.

Tetratech - I agree, you have to keep that angel shot handy. I occasionally toyed with the idea of angels for one or the other of my tanks, but this shot straightened me out again. Thanks

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Bensaf, LF,

So heard to please!
Let's see "too pretty" "still life" Well sounds like art to me.

I find when the mid-center area of my tank is more overgrown with wistera or stargrass the tank takes on a more layed "messy" natural look, right now it's pretty clean cut but I'm enjoying better riccia growth. Goes back to can't be everything to all plants, fish and critics. Unfortunately as you both pointed out pics don't usually commnicate all the intricates that are present.

I bet there are a few things you didn't notice, for example, if you look from right to left in the pic, starting with the jungle of wisteria notice how the fullness breaks up alittle and then there are a few pieces that find their way to the mid foreground. I bet you didn't notice that in the first look. Another thing the rotala is a mid-ground plant. It is dead center from front to back partially in front of the stargras grouping.

The problem with planted tanks is they they only look the height of their potential about 5% of the time. Especially those with stems.
This is true kinda.
The other day my wife got on my case because she can't believe how much I mess with my tank. I'm lucky I work from home alot (actually not so lucky, because so does th wife ) and I realized she was right. I noticed that when I'm able to cut a stem here and cut a stem there. I could keep the tank in pretty good shape without doing a major trim. I could also catch things before they become a bigger problem, I don't thing LF has that ability and he has a bigger tank. The rotala is a perfect example. I probably trim a stem or two every other day. I also think constant trimming is really good. I believe the plants develop better growth and thus keep the water cleaner and crisper - Tetratech Out

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Can anyone say Hygro?

Sorry I am a bit behind but have a peek at my tank.....hygro city!

I completly understand the life in the pictures talk. When I take pictures of my tanks I can never really show off anything that might happens to look nice on the given day I get a camera in my hands. You guys take much better pictures than I do and I am sure that if I were to see your tanks in real life I would be twice as interesting in them.

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Well it's been about 7 weeks since I bought my blues rams. Had a little scare about a week a go with the male blue and too much co2, but both seem fine. After that incident the female has been picking on the male, but now they seem to be following each other around again. Could it be that the male was weakened and the female picked up on that.

Here's a current pic of the male, notice the solid black side spot with new blue dots in it:



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And now the female. Notice the black spot has some blue dots in it. I was told this was the easiest way to tell male from female.



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Robyn BTW the black top that LF hates is the canopy I was talking about
Thanks Tetratech. Just crop the canopy out of the pic & LF will never know it's there.

BTW, I like your "still life" look

My tanks all have a similar canopy (more sloped/rounded though) as they came with the tank & the lights are built into the canopy.

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Bensaf,

We must have offended tetratech seriously, have you taken a look at his Avatar?

- Now that is a still live

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bensaf
 
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Yep I see the Av.

Unfortunately I think it only serves to prove our point

Well, we all have the wife issues (as no doubt Wings is discovering!). I think that for me it's not so much the amount of time as the timing itself. Coming and the first thing you do is check the the Co2, check for pearling, count the fish etc and THEN say hello to your wife is not a good thing Only thing worse is remembering to say hi to the wife first but then she catches that your eyes are on the tank while you kiss hello

I tend to be like tetra too, I prefer a 10 min tidy on a daily basis rather then one big weekly trim. Although I'm now down to only 4 species of stem plant, all pretty easy to take care of, and this certainly makes things easier. It also keeps the "look" longer.


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Draw this:





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There's a challenge. Nice shot tetratech

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Ha! I told ya...

Nice shot, although the white balance has taken away some of the reds of the middle plants. Very nice though


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Well, we all have the wife issues (as no doubt Wings is discovering!). I think that for me it's not so much the amount of time as the timing itself. Coming and the first thing you do is check the the Co2, check for pearling, count the fish etc and THEN say hello to your wife is not a good thing Only thing worse is remembering to say hi to the wife first but then she catches that your eyes are on the tank while you kiss hello


Well you see......I get home and I normaly see my tank before my wife. She is up stairs doing her online homework while my tank is right before my eyes. It is not my fault it got to me first!

Nice shot tetra. I love how you jump up to the challenge of these guys! Was your light on high for the picture or half wattage? It seems a little dark but I think it is because of what Nowher brought up.

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although the white balance has taken away some of the reds of the middle plants
- I think we simply cannot let tetratech have his 15 minutes of fame without finding something to criticize.

But really, now we can see some motion, and some fishies as well, its getting better and better

Your tank background is some self stick foil, right tetratech? What would it take to remove it and to place it back on? Just out of curiosity and not because I think it would be better, but I am wondering how this scape would look with a white or very light blue background. Or even something with a light red tone.

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Ha! I told ya...

Yes you were right Nowher, when you said low and below I thought about those Amano shots.

Yes the color got sapped, I'm ont a pro photography, but shot needs more light and a faster shutter.

LF,
The background is removable. It's been put on with vasoline, but I don't think I want to go there.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
A little shocker today, I woke up to a dead Bosemani. I was really shocked. I saw no problems with the fish just the other day. All other fish are fine. This is the first fish I could remember losing since that little gourami many months ago.

EDIT: It seemed like the one that died was the weaker male (color, slighly smaller) Could this have been the cause.

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It seemed like the one that died was the weaker male (color, slighly smaller) Could this have been the cause
In itself, I would say no. When one has more than one fish of one kind then one will always be the weaker one.

A few questions:
- Have the rainbows been fighting with each other often?
- Has the female Ram been fighting with him?

The only other thing I can think of, assuming that it was not an illness, would be that 2 fish of a schooling type simply doesn't work out that well.

Sorry about the loss tetratech,

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The only other thing I can think of, assuming that it was not an illness, would be that 2 fish of a schooling type simply doesn't work out that well.

Well the two fish during certain times were always doing their "diplay dance" for each other. Same way the pencils do it, but with the pencils I have 2 males and 3 females.

I think it's also an issue of too many fish.
stuff happens, if you know what I mean.

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Holy Haircut



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indeed... any reason for the buzz cut? Do you have a scape change in mind?

I think it's also an issue of too many fish.


I still can't see how you have "too many" fish. I know there's a correlation between easy to care for tanks and low fish load, but you don't really have that much in there. Cardinals, pencils, two bosemanis, a few otos and 4 rams is nothing for a 72 gallon tank. I just want to know how Amano has his tanks set up for a year or so with 85 espei or hengali, 10-15 otos, tons of shrimp and 10 rosy barbs in a 65 gallon tank and everything is fine in terms of fish health and algae. I know part of it is that he doesn't use a ton of light necessarily so that helps, but he doesnt't exactly always stock lightly when it comes to his schooling fish, and that's doing a normal 50% weekly water change schedule. I'm only using him as an example because I have the book open in front of me, but there are others who do it as well.

I think it may just be that stuff happens, sometimes they just die.


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Sorry to here about your Rainbow. I lost one of mine yesterday. I think my Convicts kicked there butt. I am really tworn right now on what to do with that tank.

As for the haircut or should I say buzz cut. It actually looks pretty good still. Much like the picture you posted a while back with the top of yout tank chopped off. It also seems to add a lot of life to your tank being there are quite a few fish in sight now from the picture.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Aug-2006 20:07Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I still can't see how you have "too many" fish

I'm not suggesting that the fish died because of overcrowding but let's just say more "stuff" happens when you have more fish in the tank.

When you see amanos tanks how do you know he's not losing 10 of 80 schooling fish over the course of a year?

Speaking of Amano, check out this shrimp (bad pic) she's loaded with eggs. Sorry I'm not setting up a brackish tank for the fry

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I will drop off a 20L this weekend and some salt if you give me some baby shrimp!

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Post InfoPosted 09-Aug-2006 20:44Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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will drop off a 20L this weekend and some salt if you give me some baby shrimp!



BTW - Sorry to hear about your Bosemani as well. Very strange, cause the fish was eating and acting normal the day before.

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Same thing with mine. The only difference between mine and yours is I have a nasty set of cichlids in the tank with mine that happen to have fry.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Aug-2006 20:56Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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When you see amanos tanks how do you know he's not losing 10 of 80 schooling fish over the course of a year?


It's possible of course, but he's usually good about telling when that sort of thing happens. I know he's killed off livestock plenty of times with too much CO2.

Congrats on the gravid Amano I bet you'd need a lot of experience to properly breed them - raise the adults in FW, transfer them to salt or brackish to rbeed, then slowly bring the young back to FW. Are they all wild caught?


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EditedEdited by tetratech
I bet you'd need a lot of experience to properly breed them - raise the adults in FW, transfer them to salt or brackish to rbeed, then slowly bring the young back to FW. Are they all wild caught?

Sounds like 3 tanks just to breed some shrimp.
Not sure about the wild-caught thing.

Anyway, here's a center pic of my tank one day after every single stem in the pic was trimmed.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Aug-2006 02:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Stargrass just grows to damn fast, but when it's healthy it's tough to beat:



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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
It gets quite tricky playing with different growth rate plants. In my tank right now the Sunset Hygro is trying to gro a cross the top of the tank. I like to keep the stuff taller but then one day durning the week it shoots up on me and the tank looks messy.

Were you playing camera tricks with the last full shot picture? (fan on the tank?) I think I see a slight ripple!

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Post InfoPosted 10-Aug-2006 14:06Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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It's been a while so here's a current pic:



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Beautiful as ever.

I'm going to copy you with the riccia - sorry, hope you don't mind. I've got the hair nets ready & waiting for the arrival, by mail, of 15cm square of riccia (a recent ebay find) Can't find the stuff in a LFS or online here. Hoping it's there when I get home from work, so I can combine the planting with tonight's water change.

Cheers
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Thanks Robyn,

Please knock yourself out with the ricca. No two tanks are alike so it will be interesting to see it in yours. If you didn't notice from the first pick you'll notice that the riccia has left my foreground and now is part of my main mound area. I removed alot of wisteria to fit it in.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's an earlier shot (one week) before I left for about 5 days. Notice the rock that the riccia is on is more exposed and the plants have much better color. The first full shot I hadn't dosed in 5 days.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's a closer shot of the riccia covered rock:
LF, notice some BBA on the DW. See I have algae too.



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An even closer shot. Here you could clearly see pearling (no water change in 9 days) and some of the hairnet that is holding the riccia in place.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 05:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
Now that's a tank that's devloping real nice.

The re-arrangement of the rocks and riccia is fantastic.

Suddenly it's a tank with lots of interest (without being fussy or distracting) and life. Brighter pics too !

You know have different levels and depth that was lacking before. Great great job

You can dump the still life avatar now.


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well thank you Sir!

I had a feeling you would like it. I tried to make it more "random" with some wisteria just growing loosely across the midground and having it mix with the other plants. You might have also noticed the Blyxa coverage has expanded and is slightly more random occupying different levels.

You can dump the still life avatar now.


Oh good, I was getting bored looking at it.

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Now that is just wonderful

Was that the reason you didn't update your log in the last week or two? If so, well done, the surpirse is truely a good one.

I am with Bensaf, depth and the whole nine yards, excellent.

But, I wouldn't be myself if I would not have a work of caution:

You have greatly reduced your wisteria farm, the one plant I claim to be responsible for your extreme stability with regards to algae. Have a keen eye on the developing tank, just to make sure that it stays stable. And, Riccia, IMHO, has one disadvantage, it hides algae very well in its lower regions. I know that you perform regular trimmings, so this may not apply to you.

Besides that, BRAVO

Ingo


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Is it just me or did you add a larger riccia rock to both sides of the mound?

I really like the new look. It creates a slightly more wild look to your tank. A good change from the still life, clean cut scape.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 14:09Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Was that the reason you didn't update your log in the last week or two? If so, well done, the surpirse is truely a good one.

Well I timed the "refresh" a few days before I left so I would enjoy about a weeks of growth when I returned (a week with no ferts anyway)

You have greatly reduced your wisteria farm, the one plant I claim to be responsible for your extreme stability with regards to algae
Yes I did think of that, but I had already taken out every wisteria stem prior to the redo in about 3 phases. The lower stems that were being crushed from 10 months of horziontial growth were looking pretty ratty. There's still alot of wisteria in there and the tank is that much more mature. So I'll keep my fingers crossed. The riccia will definitely be more maintenance than the wisteria that I was able to get away with clipping the tops for 10 months.

Is it just me or did you add a larger riccia rock to both sides of the mound?

If it wasn't clear from the photos there is a large rock deep-midground on both sides of the mound. The rocks were positioned to angle up toward the mound keeping the effect.





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Aw, no more riccia foreground? Well, i guess this new gorgeous set up will have to do...

Really well done. Your tank has a different feel to it that's been hard to pin down. I think it reminds me a lot of a tropical island, with the wisteria acting like big palm trees.


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The new look is really nice, but then I always loved the old look too

I saw you say in LF's log that your pH is under 6 in the evening. Do you know what it is in the morning, before C02 turns back on?

Cheers
TW
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Robyn,

My best guess is between 5.8 and 6.0 at lights out and between 6.4 and 6.6 at lights on.



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Current pic of large riccia covered stone inbetween some foreground and "background wisteria. The stone is about the size of my head, believe me that's pretty big.

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I found these rocks in PA last weekend. They look alot like petrified wood so I grabbed a few. I was going to use the acid test on them. I don't have any muratic acid, but I heard you can use PH down (Sodium Biphosphate). Has anyone tried this.



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I have heard to use Vinager. If it bubbles then you shouldn't use it because it will raise your Ph, Kh and/or GH?

Isn't it fun to go out and pick up rocks and not pay big bucks /pound!

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Sorry I'm late, but ooohh...aaahhhh.

Looks great as always Tetra. I particularly like how the wisteria wraps around the new rock on the right. It makes the tank look really deep front to back.

And I'm not sure there is a rock out there as big as your head with all this kneeling and grovelling over your tank:.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Aug-2006 00:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the tank comments and this

And I'm not sure there is a rock out there as big as your head with all this kneeling and grovelling over your tank

:

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Ahhh I crack myself up.....but you had to expect it, right?



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Post InfoPosted 26-Aug-2006 03:03Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A couple of shots. I added more riccia to the left and right corner foregrounds. I feel the Blyxa is more "incorporated into the tank instead of just in the corners.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 16:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Here's a shot showing the bigger riccia stone with pretty good growth. Also my largest rummynose. This guy has been with me along time, surviving the brewery.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 16:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Interesting tank shots, in particular the first one. Reason: when I see your other full shots they never contain the surroundings (I guess you took this one because of Matty's crocket shot requests ). In this shot, your tank seems much smaller than in the others, even smaller than it really is. I wonder why, no idea!

BTW, I was on your island for the day (mother-in-law) and on my way back stopped at your fish store. Not much there, the wood wasn't all that good and I found out (sales person told me) that they carry Apistos only maybe one group in 4 months (and she bought the last group of your Apistos). Interesting. Plants where in pretty bad shape too, lots of algae - in particular BGA.

I assume the reason for the bad stock is the fact that today is the last day of their anniversary sale, with some fish up to 40% off, wood 25% off, and what not.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 23:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I was on your island for the day (mother-in-law) and on my way back stopped at your fish store. Not much there, the wood wasn't all that good and I found out (sales person told me) that they carry Apistos only maybe one group in 4 months (and she bought the last group of your Apistos). Interesting. Plants where in pretty bad shape too, lots of algae - in particular BGA.


You have to hit it at the right time for plants. Those plants are pretty much mush if you don't get there within 5 days of delivery. I don't get those marineland tank displays. They put this MH light right in the middle where the three joined tanks met. It sucks and it's designed for hugh turnover of plants.

The Apistos are hidden in a large endcap tank in the back of the store (Bad idea) They have usually 4 or 5 varieties. Same thing as plants, you have to hit it right, but you are right the sale probably has something to do with it. They really use the store to get highend custom installs. Without the installs the store probably wouldn't make it.


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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 01:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yes, I agree, these tanks for the plants don't seem to work too well.

They have the Apistos somewhere else?
Do you think the sales person would have known about this? She seemed very knowledgable as she tried to explain a mother and her young son that 3 sharks (customer didn't know which ones) and one cory are more than enough in a 10G . Even after repeated warnings from this sales person, all answered by the woman with "That's OK", she bought another fish anyway (first choice was one clown loach, I don't know what she got in the end). That sales person told me that she bought the last apistos they had.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 01:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Doesn't surprise me.

Had nothing better to do on a rainy New York, so I decided to put my hand in my tank to see what would happen. The fish couldn't care less, but this Amano decided to jump from this DW/BBA Tower to my hand.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You could get a better perspective on the size of my tank in this shot.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow, Matty has sure caused some good pics in all the planted gang's tanks to turn up. I like the one with the amano on your hand, pretty cool.

But I also like that I've now seen what your tank looks like with that light on top. If I did convert my 43.5G tank, mine would look pretty much identical - as mine has that black stripping on the top & even that cross bar for added support. I can now show that to hubby, as he doesn't want me to convert the tank. He likes it how it is. He will still probably object, as he likes how all 3 of my tanks match, and if I do the conversion, the big tank will be the "odd man out". But your pic may help me out, as he will see a pic of what I'm trying to explain it will look like.

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tetratech
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Glad I could help Robyn. If you look closely you could see the little rubber feet under each front corner where the light meets the glass top.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Gee,

I guess in order to top tetratech I will have to make a photo with my foot in the tank

Either this shrimp is really stupid or you are a very trustworthy person (or you had some algae glued to your thumb).

During feeding, I once in a while can pet my pearls and the male Apisto, but only briefly

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Tetra,

Very nice pictures. Your tank has always looked super huge until that full tank shot.

The picture with the shrimp is quite interesting. At work the skunk shrimp will do the same thing. My fresh water shimp seem much more skiddish though.

It is always interesting to hear about other LFS's as I work in one. Right now our plants are taking a turn for the worst. That is what happens when they don't let me ferts like I like to. 3WPG and no ferts tends to lead to hair aglae and I just started to see it in the Display tank.

Plants are not a really big part of our busness but they are picking up. Being that there is not a really fast turn over it is best to plan on keeping them alive for a while. If you don't plan on keeping them alive then they look like crap and you can't sell them. Ahh.......sorry things are messed up at work....

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 03:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Right now our plants are taking a turn for the worst
What kind of setup does your store have for the plants?

Guys I'm giving serious consideration to uping my light to a 260watt 48" CF fixture, that would give me 130watt and 260 midday. I'm considering this for several reasons:

1. I'm growing more riccia toward the corners and it's defintely a challenge with the 36" fixture.

2. I need a 36" light for my saltwater setup and I can use my current fixture and just switch the bulbs.(Yeah Matty, I'm still coming to the darkside)

2. Like to see if it colors up the aromatica alittle more.

3. Might looks "alittle" better

I'm reluctant of course becausse "why change a good thing" and I would be going to 1.8 and 3.6 from 1.3 and 2.6.

What do you guys think?

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 01:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Well tetratech,

That would put you at least in my ballpark of lighting, if not more. Your tank has pretty much the dimensions of a 55, with a dent in the front glass. With this I mean that the brunt of light will hit a smaller area than the 72G may make one assume there are. Do you know what I mean? Remember that I am down to 1h of high light only.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 02:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Your tank has pretty much the dimensions of a 55, with a dent in the front glass

You have such a way with words. Did you ever consider being a brochure writer for AGA.

Anyway, yeah I know exactly what you mean and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable going with the high light for more than a few hours and probably not with my existing fishload. Although I believe the tank is more mature and might be able to handle it now as opposed to 5 or 6 months ago.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 02:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Bah I don't believe it. I never got a second timer for my lights. 192W for 12 hrs per day. So far it's working out, but I don't know how it will be when I get more fish in there and feed more. Right now the plants LOVE it. The baby's tears have pretty much gone bananas and the hygro has reached the surface and started to bend over, the ambulia is almost there as well. No algae. I don't know how long it can last to be honest, I'm starting to worry about how things are going so well. With all the nonsense you guys gave me about fishless cycling you almost got me believing it would crash as soon as I turned the lights on.

There is that whole why change a good thing, though. Personally, I'd upgrade though. It's a perfect oportunity. I took advantage of a similar oportunity as well.

And Tankwatcher...don't blame me for the better pics. All blame goes to the photographer



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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 03:07Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Matty,
don't blame me for the better pics. All blame goes to the photographer
Do you mean when I said your marine pics are nice & that your's looks better than ours. Definitely you're the better photographer - as a photographer, I suck. But it's more than that. The tank is hubby's & I don't necessarily like his arrangement of rocks or choice of corals. So the compliment was for how you have things arranged, just as much as the photography skills.

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mattyboombatty
 
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Nope, I was responding to this comment:

Wow, Matty has sure caused some good pics in all the planted gang's tanks to turn up. I like the one with the amano on your hand, pretty cool.




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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 03:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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I was confused by what you meant, as I forgot about that photography comment & thought it was funny that you'd mention the marine pics here. Dopey me

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tetratech,

Well, if you have the spare money I would say you should go for it, the least it will do is to put your theory on light vs. algae to the test

So, 260W are 4 65W units, if I understand that right. Did you think about splitting the K spectrum or are they all gonna be 6,700?

And Matty - "All blame goes to the photographer" - How should I have known that you like crocket angles for your tank pictures. That only became clear to me after I saw the Picasso installation in your tank .

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 10:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well, if you have the spare money I would say you should go for it, the least it will do is to put your theory on light vs. algae to the test

Well not much of a theory, more light, more waste, more algae

Still two camps out there, macros (no3,po4) cause algae or not. What's the difference between the no3 produced by our bacteria friends and the no3 we dump in?

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 13:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
What's the difference between the no3 produced by our bacteria friends and the no3 we dump in
Organic and Synthetic?

As for the lights. I would say go for it if you have the cash. I am running strait 3.25WPG on my tank with out any problems. I don't think you will have a problem with it.

Edit: Forgot about this...

What kind of setup does your store have for the plants?
For plants we have:

(4) 15G with PC
(1) 40G Long with 130W PC
(1) 120G with 322W PC

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 14:24Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Well one difference between the KNO3 and the nitrate that comes from fish waste is that fish waste is ammonia first. Everybody should know by now that it's ammonia that is the major cause of algae. Either that or you have a major imbalance causing your plants to stop growing.


the Picasso installation in your tank

I think you are referring to my glossofalls there LF, and please the name is "death star" anything else just falls short.



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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 14:54Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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For plants we have:

(1) 40G Long with 130W PC
(1) 120G with 322W PC


And no real co2 and fert program

Well one difference between the KNO3 and the nitrate that comes from fish waste is that fish waste is ammonia first. Everybody should know by now that it's ammonia that is the major cause of algae. Either that or you have a major imbalance causing your plants to stop growing.

Your preaching to the choir. I'm with you on the ammonia thing, but I'm referring to the biological filter converting ammonia into nitrate as the end-product of the nitrogen cycle. Is this product pretty much the same to the aquarium as the no3 we dump in?

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 15:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And no real co2 and fert program

Well there was a fert program but that has ended. I haven't been into work in a few days but the last time I was there the hair algae had started. See what happens when I get to work tomorrow!

Pretty cool ehh?

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 15:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A little aerial action:



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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 17:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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and a shot from the side showing the riccia growing on the big rock. You could cleary see the hairnet on the back where there isn't any growth.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 17:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You could cleary see the hairnet on the back where there isn't any growth.
If you wouldn't have pointed it out only LF would have caught it.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 17:52Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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If you wouldn't have pointed it out only LF would have caught it.

Amongst other things I'm sure

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 17:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very true tetra!

Nice plant colors BTW!

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 18:03Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Nice plant colors BTW!

Thanks Man! I think if I go up to 260w I will get better color in the Aromatica. I've tried experimenting with many levels of po4, macros and lowering no3, helps alittle, but not real deep color. I think this plant needs more wattage!

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 18:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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only LF would have caught it
Me, noooooo

I like the shots from the side once in a while as it shows how much you made out of a rather narrow tank.
I think this plant needs more wattage
Or - a permanent waterproof marker

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 20:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I am kind of thinking of adding more Wattage with my tank too for colors.....I keep forgetting I have another PC ficture laying around....If I ran both fictures I could have up to....390W's... thats....almost 10WPG......Oh the colors I could have.....or aglae!

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 22:24Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Your aerial shot looks great, and I never would have seen any hair net.

If the new light means more colour, why not go for it.

BTW, I've been watching your converstation over the last day or so, about upgrading the lights. This decided me. Since way back, an on-line LFS has been holding my payment for either 36" or 48" fixture for the 4ft tank (or maybe even upgrading the 43.5G). I haven't been able to decide till now. I've called them & their sending out the 48" today. I'm not allowed to set the tank up yet, but I'm getting everything ready for the great day when I get the go ahead. I even have a regulator & solenoid I bought on ebay.



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Oh the colors I could have
Wings - If you are not talking about a Nano tank here (and you aren't) then I would strongly suggest to reconsider hanging 10wpg over any normal sized tank. But on the other hand, I would be very interested to see the effects.
If the new light means more colour, why not go for it.
Robyn - because with every watt added to your light your margin of error is equally (not in a strict mathematical sense of things) reduced. And tetratech would be addding quite a bit. With that, IMHO, he risks running into the same issues that I have on the 125G. But at least he has a UV light that kills floating algae. BTW tetratech, did you replace the bulb in it yet?

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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 10:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Well, it's too late now. The 48" fixture should already be on it's way to me from Brisbane. I hope I don't regret it. But the decision's made, so I'll try not to even think about it again. I may not even be able to set it up for a very long time & besides, I think I will sell the 4ft I have, as it is a small 4ft (only 14 inches wide & 18inches tall). I will get a tank instead that is 18 inches wide & 20 inches tall. I would not have 260W, but 220W over 72G & for the majority of time, I would run 110W, only 220W for maybe an hour - building daily maybe to 2 hours. I don't think I'd really be up for much extra in the swap over, as I have the tank & the stand to sell (I don't need the stand it came on). By the time I am allowed to set it up, maybe I'll also have saved enough $$$ for a UV too. (Sorry tetratch to talk about my non-set-up dream tank in your log.)

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tetratech
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BTW tetratech, did you replace the bulb in it yet?
No not yet, but your right it's probably due for a change. Depending on usage, I think you could wait a year.

As far as the 48" light. I guess I'll lose a little intensity when raising it up on the coralife stands. Right now it's pretty much on the glass.


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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 13:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think the intensity loss is minimal when raising the fixture by about 2 inches as all that the light has to pass in that space is air. But you will get a better spread

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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 13:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I would strongly suggest to reconsider hanging 10wpg over any normal sized tank. But on the other hand, I would be very interested to see the effects.
Thats why I am temped to try it. The Rotalla Magenta is not doing really hot in my tank and I am guessing it needs more light. Maybe I will start out with extra 130W's and see what happens. That would put me at 6.5WPG. I could probably pull that off.......



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 14:20Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,

Where did you buy your fixtures? I think it was Hellolights but I don't know for certain. based on price and performance I don't think there's much competition for Coralife. Do you agree?

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Last nite I took out the DW and scrubbed it down a bit and repositioned it slightly. In this pic you could also see the additional riccia toward the left and right corners. Notice how dark it is.



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Very nice,

Now you are even polishing the driftwood, how about a chrome layer on it to make it really shine

Coralife and nothing else, today I purchased a 65W unit for the 20QT, the only tank that didn't have a PC lighting system. Now all my tanks are Coralife

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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 16:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
..and


Tetratech wrote:
Where did you buy your fixtures? I think it was Hellolights but I don't know for certain. based on price and performance I don't think there's much competition for Coralife. Do you agree?


Thanks for the compliments, BTW - I scrubed the DW of any BBA. I like to use it as an indicator whether there s still new BBA growth, since it seems to only really attack the DW.

EDIT: Matty,Wings anyone: Do you guys know if a full canopy (you know the one's LF hates) fits over a coralife fixture on legs. So if you have a 4 foot tank and a 4 foot coralife can you easily take the top off and on.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 17:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I am not sure if you will have problems or not with the fixture and a canopy. We normally don't get canopies for our tanks unless somone wants one. In which case they are normally locally custom made. In short... I can't help. Sorry.

Are you just trying to make LF angry? The best bet would be to call and find out some measurements on one. The biggest thing is making sure its not a super tight fit on the sides of the tank being the legs hang off the sides.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 19:36Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Are you just trying to make LF angry? The best bet would be to call and find out some measurements on one. The biggest thing is making sure its not a super tight fit on the sides of the tank being the legs hang off the sides.


Well my wife still is bugging me for one, since she it's in her kitchen and the canopy will make it look more like a built-in. Ah, if I only had a Fish-Room and not a Fish-Kitchen

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 20:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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