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  L# 72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
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Subscribe72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
tetratech
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No I thought you had a 4 foot CL not a 3 footer.
I don't have any Clown Loaches

Anyway I think it's funny after 72 pages you guys didn't realize what kind of light I had. r
After doing enough research and using my experience from my old 46G I did not want to have the light that the 48" reflector offered. It would have given me about 3.6wpg. I wanted to be closer to 3.0wpg and the 36" reflector gave me 2.7wpg. BTW I started off with a current usa 36" reflector and one of the ballast broke and replaced it with the Coralife fixture. A much better product. The Current USA fixture I had was so cumbersome with 4 plugs(2 light, 2 fans and an idiotic night light right in the middle where the tank support goes. S

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 21:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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What?

You have a 4 foot long Clown Loach?



That's how rumours start.

Although I did never have a different brand of CF lighting, I second the notion that the CoraLife fixtures are very good, and on top reasonably priced. I have 3 and I am constantly wondering if I should get another one for the 20G, but that may give it too much light (3.25wpg), but that is how much I like it.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 22:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
That's an interesting solution. I'm having a similar problem - I wish they made the 96 watt bulbs in a 48" fixture Tough I guess if you had the 48" fixture you could have gone with 2 bulbs for most of the time, then have a 3hr spurt with all four on, kind of a noontime sort of thing...

EDIT: Just realized I wrote that as if there was a problem with what you have now


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 22:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well in a perfect world if I got the 48" maybe my aromatica would be more red, but what can I say, you have to take the good with the bad. I'm not complaining, but maybe now my tank can handle the add'l wattage. Anyway right now my noon time burst is about 6 hours. So I have 96watts from 9:30 to 12:00, 192 watts from 12:00 to 6:00 and then 96 watts from 6:00 to 8:30.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jul-2006 23:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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CL.... opps!

You know what I meant though!

I see your resoning with the light. I am sure if I would have took the time to think about it then it would have sunk in. Though I did nothing of the sort.

If you went with either of the 4 footers then you would have 1.8 or 3.6 thus too much or not enough. Going with the shorter fixture works. In my case I think I am lucky running 3.25 all the time. I probably would have been better off to run t5's.

Anyways... sorry about all the craziness!



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 00:09Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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From a visual point of view I think it does look nicer whe nthe fixture is all the way across and lifted by arms an inch or so, something I can't do. I'm still debating whether I should add the full canopy to the top to give it a more built-in appearance. I used to have this on my 46g which LF hated. I would agree on that tank it look alittle tall, but on the 72g it might look good, although it will be a pain considering all the times I have my hands in the tank, so full canopys and hi-tech planted tanks probably don't mix. I could actually suspend the light from the top, but then the wires will still go down. Coralife sells a suspension cable for their CF light fixtures.

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 01:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A Riccia Balloon?

The post-waterchange pearling on my riccia apparently his lifted this group off it's rock. It was obviously overdue for a trim but the o2 bubbles are trying to take it to it's natural place at the surface.





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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 01:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Yes I would agree with that statement

Well I was also guilty of that at the weekend. Everything in the tank was growing forward towards the glass so I decided to thin things out and make a few changes, and tetra, will be glad to know, make the driftwood a bit more visible.

Anyhows I went to the aquatic market to pick up a few things. A very strange collection of fish was available some of which I couldn't name at all. But I did see one thing that horrified me - Balloon Red Rainbows



Yep, what at first glance looked like balloon mollies were in fact stumpy balloon Irian Jaya Rainbows. One of the most beautiful freshwater fishes available reduced to a stumpy little freak. ARRRR Expect to see them in the US in the coming months and don't buy them.

Did have some young Indian Glassfish which were very very pretty and tempting , but I already have a hotch potch of fish.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 04:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech - Not only is your Riccia beautiful , it also has a built in warning system informing you when it is time for a trim. Couldn't get any better

Bensaf - Yeah, I hate it when they do this to fish, I wonder who would buy them and why. On a slightly different topic, have you ever seen or had any of the various Rice Fishies? They seem to be a cute bunch, and small on top of it. What do you know about them?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 13:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bratyboy2
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might have been already said but in the left hand corner up front is that hair grass? or the blyxe
Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 21:41Profile AIM Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well I was also guilty of that at the weekend. Everything in the tank was growing forward towards the glass so I decided to thin things out and make a few changes, and tetra, will be glad to know, make the driftwood a bit more visible.

"A picture is worth a thousand words"

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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 21:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The riccia has really taken off lately, literally. I think it's because it's getting more light (more seperation between backgroud and foreground plants. Here's a shot of my female ram getting some veggies:



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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 22:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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This stuff crawls:



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Post InfoPosted 31-Jul-2006 22:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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A picture is worth a thousand words"


That will come in time. Got to let it recover from a severe hacking. I do like it though, got more shape and depth now.

You know you are doomed to have Riccia forever after, whether you want it or not !

I got rid of mine almost a year ago but it still pops up. Even now. After I thinned out the Xmas moss which had got too thick I found pieces of Riccia in the middle stuck to the wood and still living. It's turning bright green again now. Pretty indestructible.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 04:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You know you are doomed to have Riccia forever after, whether you want it or not !

Your probably right. I actually got lazy once and cut the riccia in the tank, but I quickly netted most of the pieces, but I'm sure there are pieces floating around. When it's healthy, it sure is pretty....

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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 12:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Mosses are another good way to "plant" your Riccia, they almost form a symbiosis - The moss serves as the anchor for the growing Riccia. It the Riccia is growing too muc, the moss gets shaded too much and starts to die off, which, in turn, will cause the Riccia on it to float up and as such giving more light to the moss to regrow.

At least that is how it is in theory

On the other hand, my Riccia - Moss mix on the rocks of Rock Valley causes too much dying material underneath and on top of it created a beautiful breeding ground for BGA.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 13:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Mosses are another good way to "plant" your Riccia, they almost form a symbiosis - The moss serves as the anchor for the growing Riccia. It the Riccia is growing too muc, the moss gets shaded too much and starts to die off, which, in turn, will cause the Riccia on it to float up and as such giving more light to the moss to regrow.
Sounds interesting, but is there a fine line between it looking good and looking like a mess.

Anyway, since you guys are so keen on talking about dward cichlids does anyone thing this comparison shot (not the best I know) of my bolivian is simply young versus old. He just doesn't look like he used to and the rams have stopped breeding. The top pic is about a year ago and he was fullier and rounder the bottom one is fairly current.

EDIT: Also his eye in the bottom shot looks much bigger in relation to his body.


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 16:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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The difference is certainly there - is that bright red spot on his gill normal?

Rams are short lived, most say 2-3 years. I don't know if that applies to bolivians as well. It's possible you may have gotten him when he was a almost a year old, and now he's an old man at 2


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 17:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Most sites are saying 2 to 4 years for Bolivians.

The red is more a flush. He doesn't really have that much red there. I had him in my 46g for quite some time, before this so it's possible I've had him for as much as 18months, plus his age when I purchased. he definitely wasn't full grown when I bought him. I'll have to see if I could find some eariler pics.

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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 17:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Hey, he survived green water, willow twigs, and what not - what do you expect?

Seriously, is his body coloration always this dark these days? If I am not mistaken, doesn't that indicate being scared or unhappy? It could, of course, also mean old age though.

Being so young in this hobby eleminates me from having experience with fish dying of old age, so I really cannot help there this much, sorry about that.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 18:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Hey, he survived green water, willow twigs, and what not - what do you expect
You forgot brewery, yep he survived that as well.

He's not usually as dark as the pic, but he does get very dark and sits on the bottom when the Co2 is too high. He and the blue rams seem to be most affected. I guess he's just an old man.

I took this pic the other day showing lots of activity. I was able to count all my cardinals and they are all fine. I can't remember the last time I lost one. Again I really think the UV is a big in this regard.





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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 19:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Nice Shot,

"Picknick at the Riccia Field"

Interestingly, I observed yesterday that the new male Apisto has a dark gray body coloration when scared, and there were a few times yesterday when this happened during transport and acclimatization.

Are you sure he is not scared of something? Did this start to happen after the Rainbows were added?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 19:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
It's possible. The only thing I've noticed lately is that my female blue ram has gotten more aggressive and is starting to bully the male (coloring not as good).

Oh, what a minute......

I think, yep part of his caudal fin tip is missing, someone's picking on him and I think it's the blue ram. Wow Ingo you know your "little" fish.

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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 20:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Well Thanks,

Now, if we only would know why he gets picked at. It may be simply because he is getting old and can't move fast enough out of way anymore.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 20:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Could be or just a littie overcrowded and the danger of mixing rams. Now that the blues have settled in I think they are laying down the law especially the female.

What do you think of putting the two blues in my 12g and and removing the loaches and gold tetras and just leaving the blues with the cherry shrimps. Ideally would like to get rid of my rummys, pencils and black neons, but some have been with me so long, I hate to give them back to a LFS.

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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 20:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Give it a try, but I wouldn't feel safe mixing rams with cherries, they're just too small. Amanos, fine. Cherries? Could turn out bad.


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 20:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Your probably right about the cherries. See I need another tank. I have a 46g but that tank went to the darkside of the moss(still deciding on equipment) and I have a 5g in the garage. I need a "Fish Room"

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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 20:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I am with NowherMan6 on the shrimp/Ram issue, might be too risky.

Otherwise, I think you have reached (or even surpassed) the point of saturation. Of course we all will go and tell you to get an additional tank , and I am sure that NowherMan6 and I would come all the way to LI to persuade your wife that this is the only "right" way, but you have to let us swim in the pool, and a dinner wouldn't be too bad either

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 21:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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but you have to let us swim in the pool

Well if you guys ever take a road trip, I'll be more than happy to accomodate.

I forgot about my son's guppy tank, but that ones overloaded with guppies, two zebra fish that never die and a Bristlenose. That is the one tank in my house that almost never gets a water change (just topoff) and everything is fine. One of the zebras gets a swollen belly and it looks like it's gonna pop and then next thing I know the belly looks normal and it does the same thing a few weeks down the road.

It's a ten gallon with a stanard tubelight.



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Post InfoPosted 01-Aug-2006 21:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Ideally would like to get rid of my rummys, pencils and black neons, but some have been with me so long, I hate to give them back to a LFS.


Of such things are fish "hotch potches" born.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 04:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Of such things are fish "hotch potches" born

Well since you didn't put up a pick I'll have to bore you with another one of mine. Sorry I don't have any thing exciting like double or triple purple/green apistos just good old fashioned PLANTED AQUARIA with my plain vanilla bolivian rams.

Anyway some nights the tank just has a little extra something and tonite was one of those nites. Don't know if it is communicated in this pic, but here it goes:



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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 04:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Sorry I don't have any thing exciting like double or triple purple/green apistos just good old fashioned PLANTED AQUARIA
Your blue rams are pretty exciting, especially as you're having such success with them, where they can be so difficult to keep alive. I can't find the courage to even try them.

And, your tank is a beautiful PLANTED AQUARIA.

Cheers
TW
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LITTLE_FISH
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Sorry I don't have any thing exciting like double or triple purple/green apistos just good old fashioned PLANTED AQUARIA with my plain vanilla bolivian rams.
Come on, you have some blue/yellow Rainbows in there, and many other colorful fishies.

You know what I would like to see in your tank that, for me, would bring it to the next level? Motion, or to say it more percise, the impression of motion. I have to think about it some more before I can explain exactly what I mean, I will keep you posted.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 10:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for the comments

You know what I would like to see in your tank that, for me, would bring it to the next level?

Are you thinking in photographic terms (ripple on the water, etc.)?:

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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 12:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Yes, somewhere along these lines, although I haven't even thought about this particular option.

How to describe it? I will try:

When looking at your tank I see a focus group of tall stems surrounded by lower plants. It looks like a "still life" in the pictures.

Fish are not moving, and the only way I can think of displaying fish in motion is if they are in school formation and obviously are on route from one area to another.

Plants can show motion as well, for example thinner leaved sags, apons, crypts (spiralis), vals, and what not when swayed in the current. The capture of these swaying leaves in a picture still gives the impression of motion within the tank.

Last but not least, if you can show the water flowing (for example with your idea of water ripples), that would show motion as well.

I know that some of the contest winning tanks have no motion either, but most try to show that there is action, mostly with fish schooling and water movement.

I hope I explained it somewhat well,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 14:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I hope I explained it somewhat well

Yes you did and I will work on it

So hard to please

EDIT: Actually what would probably help with motion is to get a large school of very small tetras. Like 50 or 60 Embers or something small and set them lose.

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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 14:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Like 50 or 60 Embers or something small and set them lose.



And increase the bioload?!?!? Perish the thought!



Sorry, just having a little fun.

If anything up that school of cardinals I would think. The bioload contribution of the cardinals is pretty small, I think you can stand quite a few more without causing trouble.


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 15:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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a large school of very small tetras. Like 50 or 60 Embers or something small
Now you are talking and you understand the beauty of 50 to 60 Espei. At about 1.25 to 1.5 inches, the perfect small schooling fish to show motion.

Remember my older pictures from the time when I had maybe only 40 of them? You could actually see how the school was on the move, forming an Autobahn along the tank.

NowherMan6 is just jealous, not too many schooling fish fit into a 4G

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 15:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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If anything up that school of cardinals I would think. The bioload contribution of the cardinals is pretty small, I think you can stand quite a few more without causing trouble


Your talking to tetratech not LF Of course I would have to have a major fish sale before I added those.

To be honest I go back and forth with the cards. sometimes at night they seem to school nicely, but most of the time they are kinda hanging around. I thought maybe the rainbows would scare them alittle. I guess when your related to the Pirhana you don't scare easily.


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Post InfoPosted 02-Aug-2006 15:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
LF's experience with his Espei really made me think about the importance of choosing the right fish for a layout, and choosing the right number. Even though bioload-wise his tank was probably fine with the 70+ espei, behavior wise it took away from them a bit. There wasn't enough space for them to swim together and school back and forth. Now that their numbers are down, he commented in his log that he can see their natural behavior more, forming a school and mvoing around. On the other hand, if those were cardinals it probably wouldn't matter if there were 100 or 12, they would still just hang out and "flit" around, like cardinals do. Just a behavior thing, but something to be aware of when choosing fish.

I guess when your related to the Pirhana you don't scare easily


Was it in this log where I read about their teeth? I read somewhere that cardinals actually have a ton of sharp teeth like their cousins, but they're tiny, almost microscopic. Funny to think of those little neon fish that way, but they are related

NowherMan6 is just jealous, not too many schooling fish fit into a 4G


Ah yes, but how many will fit in the ~65 gallon 48X18 tank I picked up last night...? Alas, that's for a different log...


EDIT: Forgot to post my first reason for replying, LFs comments about capturing movement. Amano seems to have two ways of photographing tanks - one using a 200mm lens stopped down to f/16 or more to capture a lot of depth-of-field. This flatens out the scape, making it seem like there's less depth than there really is. The other way seems to be using wide angle lenses, and this seems to add the most drama. Notice that a lot of shots in the AGA contest seem to be taken from below the level of the bottom of the tank, looking upwards? Maybe give that a try. Just thinkin...


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Ah yes, but how many will fit in the ~65 gallon 48X18 tank I picked up last night...? Alas, that's for a different log...

Nowher hits back hard. Fresh off his success with his nano Nowher goes big. What kind of tank is the 65g

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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
It's an acrylic from glasscages. I was thinking earlier of doing an open top "Bensaf" type of tank deal, but crunching numbers the price of the tank+shipping wasn't worth it, it was just way too much for me to pay for a tank. This one has black bracing on it like an all-glass, but like I said, it's acrylic - so the possible scratch factor is there, but on the other hand it's very solid, very clean, very clear and the front corners are rounded so there's no messy silicone or anything. Shipping by UPS ground was 30 bucks. Altogether I paid less for this than a new 46 bowfront and the dimensions are great IMO - 48X18X17 (a little over). The footprint of a 75g, just shorter.


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Sounds like a great deal. I've seen that website.
You could get scratches out of acrylic, but it's a pain.


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Nothing more to say about tetratech's tank right now,

But glad to read that NowherMan6 is back in the "bigger" tank business. Can't wait to write my comments into the corresponding log then, just to mess with his mind - of course .

Congrats on the new tank

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EditedEdited by tetratech
I was looking for a pic of my bolivian cause I don't remember how old it is and I came across my 46g. This was one of my first attempts at scaping and there's my bolivan ram (in front of the moss covered DW). The pic is from 3/05. So I've had hime at least a year and a half.

Can anyone say Hygro? Robyn BTW the black top that LF hates is the canopy I was talking about, might get it for my 72g. On this tank it's a bit high, but it does make the tank look built-in and it does make the tank easier to see since the only light you see is in the aquarium.


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Can you say Angelfish? Every time someone asks, can I put a pair of angels in a 29 gallon tank, post this picture.

As for your ram, he has to be at least 2 then, right? That's getting "up there" in years for a ram...


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Can you say Angelfish? Every time someone asks, can I put a pair of angels in a 29 gallon tank, post this picture.

I've actually done that a few times and this of course is a 46g. This pic is I believe shows the Angelfish even older and bigger. Look how cramped he looks?



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Anyway some nights the tank just has a little extra something and tonite was one of those nites.


The problem with planted tanks is they they only look the height of their potential about 5% of the time. Especially those with stems.

You trim one group and another looks perfect, by the time the trimmed group is back to looking it's best the other group has now grown too tall It's on those rare moments when all the plants have reached just the right height and fullness at the same time that you get those magic moments. Within a day or two, one or more of the groups has got just a bit too tall and the mgic moment is gone.

Part of the joy and frustrating at the same time

I have to agree with Ingo, I've said it before, it is a bit like a still life and a bit cold. Almost too pretty.

Part of it may be the fish. Well for starters you can rarely see any in your photos. Cards and Neons are attractive but they bore the hell outta me. They just seem to sit there.

Strange looking at the old photos, while obviously your growing and 'scaping skills have increased dramatically, the old tanks did seem to have more life. The hardscape was more prominent, the plants a bit more ragged and natural looking.

Still love the tank. But you know already my tastes run a little different, I tend to overdo things. I focus on very small areas and build around them.

I suspect the photos still aren't doing full justice. I know I've never managed to take a single photo of my own tanks that are a fair representation of what the tank looks and "feels" like in reality.


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I know I've never managed to take a single photo of my own tanks that are a fair representation of what the tank looks and "feels" like in reality
That is so true. And on top of it, I believe on a photo other people cannot see what the person sees who made the picture, who knows the ins and outs of the tank, who has seen the tank from various angles and in 3D. That sometimes leads to confusion as the photographer wonders why others cannot detect the beauty/issue that he/she wants to convey.

Tetratech - I agree, you have to keep that angel shot handy. I occasionally toyed with the idea of angels for one or the other of my tanks, but this shot straightened me out again. Thanks

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Bensaf, LF,

So heard to please!
Let's see "too pretty" "still life" Well sounds like art to me.

I find when the mid-center area of my tank is more overgrown with wistera or stargrass the tank takes on a more layed "messy" natural look, right now it's pretty clean cut but I'm enjoying better riccia growth. Goes back to can't be everything to all plants, fish and critics. Unfortunately as you both pointed out pics don't usually commnicate all the intricates that are present.

I bet there are a few things you didn't notice, for example, if you look from right to left in the pic, starting with the jungle of wisteria notice how the fullness breaks up alittle and then there are a few pieces that find their way to the mid foreground. I bet you didn't notice that in the first look. Another thing the rotala is a mid-ground plant. It is dead center from front to back partially in front of the stargras grouping.

The problem with planted tanks is they they only look the height of their potential about 5% of the time. Especially those with stems.
This is true kinda.
The other day my wife got on my case because she can't believe how much I mess with my tank. I'm lucky I work from home alot (actually not so lucky, because so does th wife ) and I realized she was right. I noticed that when I'm able to cut a stem here and cut a stem there. I could keep the tank in pretty good shape without doing a major trim. I could also catch things before they become a bigger problem, I don't thing LF has that ability and he has a bigger tank. The rotala is a perfect example. I probably trim a stem or two every other day. I also think constant trimming is really good. I believe the plants develop better growth and thus keep the water cleaner and crisper - Tetratech Out

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Can anyone say Hygro?

Sorry I am a bit behind but have a peek at my tank.....hygro city!

I completly understand the life in the pictures talk. When I take pictures of my tanks I can never really show off anything that might happens to look nice on the given day I get a camera in my hands. You guys take much better pictures than I do and I am sure that if I were to see your tanks in real life I would be twice as interesting in them.

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Well it's been about 7 weeks since I bought my blues rams. Had a little scare about a week a go with the male blue and too much co2, but both seem fine. After that incident the female has been picking on the male, but now they seem to be following each other around again. Could it be that the male was weakened and the female picked up on that.

Here's a current pic of the male, notice the solid black side spot with new blue dots in it:



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And now the female. Notice the black spot has some blue dots in it. I was told this was the easiest way to tell male from female.



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Robyn BTW the black top that LF hates is the canopy I was talking about
Thanks Tetratech. Just crop the canopy out of the pic & LF will never know it's there.

BTW, I like your "still life" look

My tanks all have a similar canopy (more sloped/rounded though) as they came with the tank & the lights are built into the canopy.

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Bensaf,

We must have offended tetratech seriously, have you taken a look at his Avatar?

- Now that is a still live

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Yep I see the Av.

Unfortunately I think it only serves to prove our point

Well, we all have the wife issues (as no doubt Wings is discovering!). I think that for me it's not so much the amount of time as the timing itself. Coming and the first thing you do is check the the Co2, check for pearling, count the fish etc and THEN say hello to your wife is not a good thing Only thing worse is remembering to say hi to the wife first but then she catches that your eyes are on the tank while you kiss hello

I tend to be like tetra too, I prefer a 10 min tidy on a daily basis rather then one big weekly trim. Although I'm now down to only 4 species of stem plant, all pretty easy to take care of, and this certainly makes things easier. It also keeps the "look" longer.


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Draw this:





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There's a challenge. Nice shot tetratech

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Ha! I told ya...

Nice shot, although the white balance has taken away some of the reds of the middle plants. Very nice though


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Well, we all have the wife issues (as no doubt Wings is discovering!). I think that for me it's not so much the amount of time as the timing itself. Coming and the first thing you do is check the the Co2, check for pearling, count the fish etc and THEN say hello to your wife is not a good thing Only thing worse is remembering to say hi to the wife first but then she catches that your eyes are on the tank while you kiss hello


Well you see......I get home and I normaly see my tank before my wife. She is up stairs doing her online homework while my tank is right before my eyes. It is not my fault it got to me first!

Nice shot tetra. I love how you jump up to the challenge of these guys! Was your light on high for the picture or half wattage? It seems a little dark but I think it is because of what Nowher brought up.

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although the white balance has taken away some of the reds of the middle plants
- I think we simply cannot let tetratech have his 15 minutes of fame without finding something to criticize.

But really, now we can see some motion, and some fishies as well, its getting better and better

Your tank background is some self stick foil, right tetratech? What would it take to remove it and to place it back on? Just out of curiosity and not because I think it would be better, but I am wondering how this scape would look with a white or very light blue background. Or even something with a light red tone.

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Ha! I told ya...

Yes you were right Nowher, when you said low and below I thought about those Amano shots.

Yes the color got sapped, I'm ont a pro photography, but shot needs more light and a faster shutter.

LF,
The background is removable. It's been put on with vasoline, but I don't think I want to go there.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
A little shocker today, I woke up to a dead Bosemani. I was really shocked. I saw no problems with the fish just the other day. All other fish are fine. This is the first fish I could remember losing since that little gourami many months ago.

EDIT: It seemed like the one that died was the weaker male (color, slighly smaller) Could this have been the cause.

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It seemed like the one that died was the weaker male (color, slighly smaller) Could this have been the cause
In itself, I would say no. When one has more than one fish of one kind then one will always be the weaker one.

A few questions:
- Have the rainbows been fighting with each other often?
- Has the female Ram been fighting with him?

The only other thing I can think of, assuming that it was not an illness, would be that 2 fish of a schooling type simply doesn't work out that well.

Sorry about the loss tetratech,

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The only other thing I can think of, assuming that it was not an illness, would be that 2 fish of a schooling type simply doesn't work out that well.

Well the two fish during certain times were always doing their "diplay dance" for each other. Same way the pencils do it, but with the pencils I have 2 males and 3 females.

I think it's also an issue of too many fish.
stuff happens, if you know what I mean.

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Holy Haircut



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indeed... any reason for the buzz cut? Do you have a scape change in mind?

I think it's also an issue of too many fish.


I still can't see how you have "too many" fish. I know there's a correlation between easy to care for tanks and low fish load, but you don't really have that much in there. Cardinals, pencils, two bosemanis, a few otos and 4 rams is nothing for a 72 gallon tank. I just want to know how Amano has his tanks set up for a year or so with 85 espei or hengali, 10-15 otos, tons of shrimp and 10 rosy barbs in a 65 gallon tank and everything is fine in terms of fish health and algae. I know part of it is that he doesn't use a ton of light necessarily so that helps, but he doesnt't exactly always stock lightly when it comes to his schooling fish, and that's doing a normal 50% weekly water change schedule. I'm only using him as an example because I have the book open in front of me, but there are others who do it as well.

I think it may just be that stuff happens, sometimes they just die.


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Sorry to here about your Rainbow. I lost one of mine yesterday. I think my Convicts kicked there butt. I am really tworn right now on what to do with that tank.

As for the haircut or should I say buzz cut. It actually looks pretty good still. Much like the picture you posted a while back with the top of yout tank chopped off. It also seems to add a lot of life to your tank being there are quite a few fish in sight now from the picture.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Aug-2006 20:07Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I still can't see how you have "too many" fish

I'm not suggesting that the fish died because of overcrowding but let's just say more "stuff" happens when you have more fish in the tank.

When you see amanos tanks how do you know he's not losing 10 of 80 schooling fish over the course of a year?

Speaking of Amano, check out this shrimp (bad pic) she's loaded with eggs. Sorry I'm not setting up a brackish tank for the fry

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I will drop off a 20L this weekend and some salt if you give me some baby shrimp!

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Post InfoPosted 09-Aug-2006 20:44Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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will drop off a 20L this weekend and some salt if you give me some baby shrimp!



BTW - Sorry to hear about your Bosemani as well. Very strange, cause the fish was eating and acting normal the day before.

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Same thing with mine. The only difference between mine and yours is I have a nasty set of cichlids in the tank with mine that happen to have fry.

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When you see amanos tanks how do you know he's not losing 10 of 80 schooling fish over the course of a year?


It's possible of course, but he's usually good about telling when that sort of thing happens. I know he's killed off livestock plenty of times with too much CO2.

Congrats on the gravid Amano I bet you'd need a lot of experience to properly breed them - raise the adults in FW, transfer them to salt or brackish to rbeed, then slowly bring the young back to FW. Are they all wild caught?


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EditedEdited by tetratech
I bet you'd need a lot of experience to properly breed them - raise the adults in FW, transfer them to salt or brackish to rbeed, then slowly bring the young back to FW. Are they all wild caught?

Sounds like 3 tanks just to breed some shrimp.
Not sure about the wild-caught thing.

Anyway, here's a center pic of my tank one day after every single stem in the pic was trimmed.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Aug-2006 02:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Stargrass just grows to damn fast, but when it's healthy it's tough to beat:



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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
It gets quite tricky playing with different growth rate plants. In my tank right now the Sunset Hygro is trying to gro a cross the top of the tank. I like to keep the stuff taller but then one day durning the week it shoots up on me and the tank looks messy.

Were you playing camera tricks with the last full shot picture? (fan on the tank?) I think I see a slight ripple!

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Post InfoPosted 10-Aug-2006 14:06Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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It's been a while so here's a current pic:



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Beautiful as ever.

I'm going to copy you with the riccia - sorry, hope you don't mind. I've got the hair nets ready & waiting for the arrival, by mail, of 15cm square of riccia (a recent ebay find) Can't find the stuff in a LFS or online here. Hoping it's there when I get home from work, so I can combine the planting with tonight's water change.

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Thanks Robyn,

Please knock yourself out with the ricca. No two tanks are alike so it will be interesting to see it in yours. If you didn't notice from the first pick you'll notice that the riccia has left my foreground and now is part of my main mound area. I removed alot of wisteria to fit it in.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 03:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's an earlier shot (one week) before I left for about 5 days. Notice the rock that the riccia is on is more exposed and the plants have much better color. The first full shot I hadn't dosed in 5 days.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's a closer shot of the riccia covered rock:
LF, notice some BBA on the DW. See I have algae too.



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An even closer shot. Here you could clearly see pearling (no water change in 9 days) and some of the hairnet that is holding the riccia in place.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 05:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
Now that's a tank that's devloping real nice.

The re-arrangement of the rocks and riccia is fantastic.

Suddenly it's a tank with lots of interest (without being fussy or distracting) and life. Brighter pics too !

You know have different levels and depth that was lacking before. Great great job

You can dump the still life avatar now.


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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 12:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well thank you Sir!

I had a feeling you would like it. I tried to make it more "random" with some wisteria just growing loosely across the midground and having it mix with the other plants. You might have also noticed the Blyxa coverage has expanded and is slightly more random occupying different levels.

You can dump the still life avatar now.


Oh good, I was getting bored looking at it.

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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 13:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Now that is just wonderful

Was that the reason you didn't update your log in the last week or two? If so, well done, the surpirse is truely a good one.

I am with Bensaf, depth and the whole nine yards, excellent.

But, I wouldn't be myself if I would not have a work of caution:

You have greatly reduced your wisteria farm, the one plant I claim to be responsible for your extreme stability with regards to algae. Have a keen eye on the developing tank, just to make sure that it stays stable. And, Riccia, IMHO, has one disadvantage, it hides algae very well in its lower regions. I know that you perform regular trimmings, so this may not apply to you.

Besides that, BRAVO

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Is it just me or did you add a larger riccia rock to both sides of the mound?

I really like the new look. It creates a slightly more wild look to your tank. A good change from the still life, clean cut scape.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 14:09Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Was that the reason you didn't update your log in the last week or two? If so, well done, the surpirse is truely a good one.

Well I timed the "refresh" a few days before I left so I would enjoy about a weeks of growth when I returned (a week with no ferts anyway)

You have greatly reduced your wisteria farm, the one plant I claim to be responsible for your extreme stability with regards to algae
Yes I did think of that, but I had already taken out every wisteria stem prior to the redo in about 3 phases. The lower stems that were being crushed from 10 months of horziontial growth were looking pretty ratty. There's still alot of wisteria in there and the tank is that much more mature. So I'll keep my fingers crossed. The riccia will definitely be more maintenance than the wisteria that I was able to get away with clipping the tops for 10 months.

Is it just me or did you add a larger riccia rock to both sides of the mound?

If it wasn't clear from the photos there is a large rock deep-midground on both sides of the mound. The rocks were positioned to angle up toward the mound keeping the effect.





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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 14:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Aw, no more riccia foreground? Well, i guess this new gorgeous set up will have to do...

Really well done. Your tank has a different feel to it that's been hard to pin down. I think it reminds me a lot of a tropical island, with the wisteria acting like big palm trees.


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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 16:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The new look is really nice, but then I always loved the old look too

I saw you say in LF's log that your pH is under 6 in the evening. Do you know what it is in the morning, before C02 turns back on?

Cheers
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Post InfoPosted 24-Aug-2006 00:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn,

My best guess is between 5.8 and 6.0 at lights out and between 6.4 and 6.6 at lights on.



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Post InfoPosted 24-Aug-2006 02:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Current pic of large riccia covered stone inbetween some foreground and "background wisteria. The stone is about the size of my head, believe me that's pretty big.

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Post InfoPosted 25-Aug-2006 19:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I found these rocks in PA last weekend. They look alot like petrified wood so I grabbed a few. I was going to use the acid test on them. I don't have any muratic acid, but I heard you can use PH down (Sodium Biphosphate). Has anyone tried this.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Aug-2006 19:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I have heard to use Vinager. If it bubbles then you shouldn't use it because it will raise your Ph, Kh and/or GH?

Isn't it fun to go out and pick up rocks and not pay big bucks /pound!

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Post InfoPosted 25-Aug-2006 20:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Sorry I'm late, but ooohh...aaahhhh.

Looks great as always Tetra. I particularly like how the wisteria wraps around the new rock on the right. It makes the tank look really deep front to back.

And I'm not sure there is a rock out there as big as your head with all this kneeling and grovelling over your tank:.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Aug-2006 00:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the tank comments and this

And I'm not sure there is a rock out there as big as your head with all this kneeling and grovelling over your tank

:

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Post InfoPosted 26-Aug-2006 02:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ahhh I crack myself up.....but you had to expect it, right?



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Post InfoPosted 26-Aug-2006 03:03Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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A couple of shots. I added more riccia to the left and right corner foregrounds. I feel the Blyxa is more "incorporated into the tank instead of just in the corners.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 16:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Here's a shot showing the bigger riccia stone with pretty good growth. Also my largest rummynose. This guy has been with me along time, surviving the brewery.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 16:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

Interesting tank shots, in particular the first one. Reason: when I see your other full shots they never contain the surroundings (I guess you took this one because of Matty's crocket shot requests ). In this shot, your tank seems much smaller than in the others, even smaller than it really is. I wonder why, no idea!

BTW, I was on your island for the day (mother-in-law) and on my way back stopped at your fish store. Not much there, the wood wasn't all that good and I found out (sales person told me) that they carry Apistos only maybe one group in 4 months (and she bought the last group of your Apistos). Interesting. Plants where in pretty bad shape too, lots of algae - in particular BGA.

I assume the reason for the bad stock is the fact that today is the last day of their anniversary sale, with some fish up to 40% off, wood 25% off, and what not.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 23:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I was on your island for the day (mother-in-law) and on my way back stopped at your fish store. Not much there, the wood wasn't all that good and I found out (sales person told me) that they carry Apistos only maybe one group in 4 months (and she bought the last group of your Apistos). Interesting. Plants where in pretty bad shape too, lots of algae - in particular BGA.


You have to hit it at the right time for plants. Those plants are pretty much mush if you don't get there within 5 days of delivery. I don't get those marineland tank displays. They put this MH light right in the middle where the three joined tanks met. It sucks and it's designed for hugh turnover of plants.

The Apistos are hidden in a large endcap tank in the back of the store (Bad idea) They have usually 4 or 5 varieties. Same thing as plants, you have to hit it right, but you are right the sale probably has something to do with it. They really use the store to get highend custom installs. Without the installs the store probably wouldn't make it.


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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 01:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yes, I agree, these tanks for the plants don't seem to work too well.

They have the Apistos somewhere else?
Do you think the sales person would have known about this? She seemed very knowledgable as she tried to explain a mother and her young son that 3 sharks (customer didn't know which ones) and one cory are more than enough in a 10G . Even after repeated warnings from this sales person, all answered by the woman with "That's OK", she bought another fish anyway (first choice was one clown loach, I don't know what she got in the end). That sales person told me that she bought the last apistos they had.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 01:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Doesn't surprise me.

Had nothing better to do on a rainy New York, so I decided to put my hand in my tank to see what would happen. The fish couldn't care less, but this Amano decided to jump from this DW/BBA Tower to my hand.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You could get a better perspective on the size of my tank in this shot.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow, Matty has sure caused some good pics in all the planted gang's tanks to turn up. I like the one with the amano on your hand, pretty cool.

But I also like that I've now seen what your tank looks like with that light on top. If I did convert my 43.5G tank, mine would look pretty much identical - as mine has that black stripping on the top & even that cross bar for added support. I can now show that to hubby, as he doesn't want me to convert the tank. He likes it how it is. He will still probably object, as he likes how all 3 of my tanks match, and if I do the conversion, the big tank will be the "odd man out". But your pic may help me out, as he will see a pic of what I'm trying to explain it will look like.

Cheers
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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Glad I could help Robyn. If you look closely you could see the little rubber feet under each front corner where the light meets the glass top.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Gee,

I guess in order to top tetratech I will have to make a photo with my foot in the tank

Either this shrimp is really stupid or you are a very trustworthy person (or you had some algae glued to your thumb).

During feeding, I once in a while can pet my pearls and the male Apisto, but only briefly

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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 03:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra,

Very nice pictures. Your tank has always looked super huge until that full tank shot.

The picture with the shrimp is quite interesting. At work the skunk shrimp will do the same thing. My fresh water shimp seem much more skiddish though.

It is always interesting to hear about other LFS's as I work in one. Right now our plants are taking a turn for the worst. That is what happens when they don't let me ferts like I like to. 3WPG and no ferts tends to lead to hair aglae and I just started to see it in the Display tank.

Plants are not a really big part of our busness but they are picking up. Being that there is not a really fast turn over it is best to plan on keeping them alive for a while. If you don't plan on keeping them alive then they look like crap and you can't sell them. Ahh.......sorry things are messed up at work....

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 03:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Right now our plants are taking a turn for the worst
What kind of setup does your store have for the plants?

Guys I'm giving serious consideration to uping my light to a 260watt 48" CF fixture, that would give me 130watt and 260 midday. I'm considering this for several reasons:

1. I'm growing more riccia toward the corners and it's defintely a challenge with the 36" fixture.

2. I need a 36" light for my saltwater setup and I can use my current fixture and just switch the bulbs.(Yeah Matty, I'm still coming to the darkside)

2. Like to see if it colors up the aromatica alittle more.

3. Might looks "alittle" better

I'm reluctant of course becausse "why change a good thing" and I would be going to 1.8 and 3.6 from 1.3 and 2.6.

What do you guys think?

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 01:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well tetratech,

That would put you at least in my ballpark of lighting, if not more. Your tank has pretty much the dimensions of a 55, with a dent in the front glass. With this I mean that the brunt of light will hit a smaller area than the 72G may make one assume there are. Do you know what I mean? Remember that I am down to 1h of high light only.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 02:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Your tank has pretty much the dimensions of a 55, with a dent in the front glass

You have such a way with words. Did you ever consider being a brochure writer for AGA.

Anyway, yeah I know exactly what you mean and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable going with the high light for more than a few hours and probably not with my existing fishload. Although I believe the tank is more mature and might be able to handle it now as opposed to 5 or 6 months ago.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 02:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Bah I don't believe it. I never got a second timer for my lights. 192W for 12 hrs per day. So far it's working out, but I don't know how it will be when I get more fish in there and feed more. Right now the plants LOVE it. The baby's tears have pretty much gone bananas and the hygro has reached the surface and started to bend over, the ambulia is almost there as well. No algae. I don't know how long it can last to be honest, I'm starting to worry about how things are going so well. With all the nonsense you guys gave me about fishless cycling you almost got me believing it would crash as soon as I turned the lights on.

There is that whole why change a good thing, though. Personally, I'd upgrade though. It's a perfect oportunity. I took advantage of a similar oportunity as well.

And Tankwatcher...don't blame me for the better pics. All blame goes to the photographer



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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 03:07Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Matty,
don't blame me for the better pics. All blame goes to the photographer
Do you mean when I said your marine pics are nice & that your's looks better than ours. Definitely you're the better photographer - as a photographer, I suck. But it's more than that. The tank is hubby's & I don't necessarily like his arrangement of rocks or choice of corals. So the compliment was for how you have things arranged, just as much as the photography skills.

Cheers
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Nope, I was responding to this comment:

Wow, Matty has sure caused some good pics in all the planted gang's tanks to turn up. I like the one with the amano on your hand, pretty cool.




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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 03:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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I was confused by what you meant, as I forgot about that photography comment & thought it was funny that you'd mention the marine pics here. Dopey me

Cheers
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tetratech,

Well, if you have the spare money I would say you should go for it, the least it will do is to put your theory on light vs. algae to the test

So, 260W are 4 65W units, if I understand that right. Did you think about splitting the K spectrum or are they all gonna be 6,700?

And Matty - "All blame goes to the photographer" - How should I have known that you like crocket angles for your tank pictures. That only became clear to me after I saw the Picasso installation in your tank .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 10:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well, if you have the spare money I would say you should go for it, the least it will do is to put your theory on light vs. algae to the test

Well not much of a theory, more light, more waste, more algae

Still two camps out there, macros (no3,po4) cause algae or not. What's the difference between the no3 produced by our bacteria friends and the no3 we dump in?

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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
What's the difference between the no3 produced by our bacteria friends and the no3 we dump in
Organic and Synthetic?

As for the lights. I would say go for it if you have the cash. I am running strait 3.25WPG on my tank with out any problems. I don't think you will have a problem with it.

Edit: Forgot about this...

What kind of setup does your store have for the plants?
For plants we have:

(4) 15G with PC
(1) 40G Long with 130W PC
(1) 120G with 322W PC

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 14:24Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Well one difference between the KNO3 and the nitrate that comes from fish waste is that fish waste is ammonia first. Everybody should know by now that it's ammonia that is the major cause of algae. Either that or you have a major imbalance causing your plants to stop growing.


the Picasso installation in your tank

I think you are referring to my glossofalls there LF, and please the name is "death star" anything else just falls short.



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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 14:54Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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For plants we have:

(1) 40G Long with 130W PC
(1) 120G with 322W PC


And no real co2 and fert program

Well one difference between the KNO3 and the nitrate that comes from fish waste is that fish waste is ammonia first. Everybody should know by now that it's ammonia that is the major cause of algae. Either that or you have a major imbalance causing your plants to stop growing.

Your preaching to the choir. I'm with you on the ammonia thing, but I'm referring to the biological filter converting ammonia into nitrate as the end-product of the nitrogen cycle. Is this product pretty much the same to the aquarium as the no3 we dump in?

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And no real co2 and fert program

Well there was a fert program but that has ended. I haven't been into work in a few days but the last time I was there the hair algae had started. See what happens when I get to work tomorrow!

Pretty cool ehh?

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 15:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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A little aerial action:



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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 17:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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and a shot from the side showing the riccia growing on the big rock. You could cleary see the hairnet on the back where there isn't any growth.

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You could cleary see the hairnet on the back where there isn't any growth.
If you wouldn't have pointed it out only LF would have caught it.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 17:52Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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If you wouldn't have pointed it out only LF would have caught it.

Amongst other things I'm sure

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Very true tetra!

Nice plant colors BTW!

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 18:03Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Nice plant colors BTW!

Thanks Man! I think if I go up to 260w I will get better color in the Aromatica. I've tried experimenting with many levels of po4, macros and lowering no3, helps alittle, but not real deep color. I think this plant needs more wattage!

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only LF would have caught it
Me, noooooo

I like the shots from the side once in a while as it shows how much you made out of a rather narrow tank.
I think this plant needs more wattage
Or - a permanent waterproof marker

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I am kind of thinking of adding more Wattage with my tank too for colors.....I keep forgetting I have another PC ficture laying around....If I ran both fictures I could have up to....390W's... thats....almost 10WPG......Oh the colors I could have.....or aglae!

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 22:24Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Your aerial shot looks great, and I never would have seen any hair net.

If the new light means more colour, why not go for it.

BTW, I've been watching your converstation over the last day or so, about upgrading the lights. This decided me. Since way back, an on-line LFS has been holding my payment for either 36" or 48" fixture for the 4ft tank (or maybe even upgrading the 43.5G). I haven't been able to decide till now. I've called them & their sending out the 48" today. I'm not allowed to set the tank up yet, but I'm getting everything ready for the great day when I get the go ahead. I even have a regulator & solenoid I bought on ebay.



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Oh the colors I could have
Wings - If you are not talking about a Nano tank here (and you aren't) then I would strongly suggest to reconsider hanging 10wpg over any normal sized tank. But on the other hand, I would be very interested to see the effects.
If the new light means more colour, why not go for it.
Robyn - because with every watt added to your light your margin of error is equally (not in a strict mathematical sense of things) reduced. And tetratech would be addding quite a bit. With that, IMHO, he risks running into the same issues that I have on the 125G. But at least he has a UV light that kills floating algae. BTW tetratech, did you replace the bulb in it yet?

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Well, it's too late now. The 48" fixture should already be on it's way to me from Brisbane. I hope I don't regret it. But the decision's made, so I'll try not to even think about it again. I may not even be able to set it up for a very long time & besides, I think I will sell the 4ft I have, as it is a small 4ft (only 14 inches wide & 18inches tall). I will get a tank instead that is 18 inches wide & 20 inches tall. I would not have 260W, but 220W over 72G & for the majority of time, I would run 110W, only 220W for maybe an hour - building daily maybe to 2 hours. I don't think I'd really be up for much extra in the swap over, as I have the tank & the stand to sell (I don't need the stand it came on). By the time I am allowed to set it up, maybe I'll also have saved enough $$$ for a UV too. (Sorry tetratch to talk about my non-set-up dream tank in your log.)

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tetratech
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BTW tetratech, did you replace the bulb in it yet?
No not yet, but your right it's probably due for a change. Depending on usage, I think you could wait a year.

As far as the 48" light. I guess I'll lose a little intensity when raising it up on the coralife stands. Right now it's pretty much on the glass.


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I think the intensity loss is minimal when raising the fixture by about 2 inches as all that the light has to pass in that space is air. But you will get a better spread

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I would strongly suggest to reconsider hanging 10wpg over any normal sized tank. But on the other hand, I would be very interested to see the effects.
Thats why I am temped to try it. The Rotalla Magenta is not doing really hot in my tank and I am guessing it needs more light. Maybe I will start out with extra 130W's and see what happens. That would put me at 6.5WPG. I could probably pull that off.......



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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 14:20Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,

Where did you buy your fixtures? I think it was Hellolights but I don't know for certain. based on price and performance I don't think there's much competition for Coralife. Do you agree?

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tetratech
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Last nite I took out the DW and scrubbed it down a bit and repositioned it slightly. In this pic you could also see the additional riccia toward the left and right corners. Notice how dark it is.



Attached Image:


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Very nice,

Now you are even polishing the driftwood, how about a chrome layer on it to make it really shine

Coralife and nothing else, today I purchased a 65W unit for the 20QT, the only tank that didn't have a PC lighting system. Now all my tanks are Coralife

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EditedEdited by tetratech
..and


Tetratech wrote:
Where did you buy your fixtures? I think it was Hellolights but I don't know for certain. based on price and performance I don't think there's much competition for Coralife. Do you agree?


Thanks for the compliments, BTW - I scrubed the DW of any BBA. I like to use it as an indicator whether there s still new BBA growth, since it seems to only really attack the DW.

EDIT: Matty,Wings anyone: Do you guys know if a full canopy (you know the one's LF hates) fits over a coralife fixture on legs. So if you have a 4 foot tank and a 4 foot coralife can you easily take the top off and on.

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I am not sure if you will have problems or not with the fixture and a canopy. We normally don't get canopies for our tanks unless somone wants one. In which case they are normally locally custom made. In short... I can't help. Sorry.

Are you just trying to make LF angry? The best bet would be to call and find out some measurements on one. The biggest thing is making sure its not a super tight fit on the sides of the tank being the legs hang off the sides.



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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 19:36Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Are you just trying to make LF angry? The best bet would be to call and find out some measurements on one. The biggest thing is making sure its not a super tight fit on the sides of the tank being the legs hang off the sides.


Well my wife still is bugging me for one, since she it's in her kitchen and the canopy will make it look more like a built-in. Ah, if I only had a Fish-Room and not a Fish-Kitchen

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Wow tetra, you're a good man, truly a man willing to comprimise. Putting a big ugly canopy over your tank? I'm impressed...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 20:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah I'm the man, who knows who the boss is - my wife

One thing actually that I do like about the canopy is that it looks more like a public aquarium, where the room is dark and all the light is n the tank. You aren't distracted by the light that you see coming from the reflector.



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I do agree that the tanks seem to look much more built in when you have a contraption on top of the tank but I am willing to bet that it will be a big pain in the butt with the amount you will have to take the thing off.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 21:04Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
No an all-glass canopy won't fit over a coralife with legs. Just the 4 ft fixture on a 4ft tank will fit under a canopy, as the fixture is slightly less than 4 ft. I guess the only way to do that would be to cut a couple slits in the side of the canopy for the legs. All of the weight of the canopy rests on 4 corner pegs so cutting some on the sides would be ok. That would take care of the length wise problem, but I'm not sure if the coralife with legs will fit height wise either. For that, you could cut a couple peices of wood to place in the four corners bringing up the canopy.

EDIT: on the other hand a couple of T5 HO bulbs will fit up into the canopy VERY well. A 2 bulb 4 ft T5HO(icecap) retrofit kit from reefgeek would be nice in there. Other places sell them, but usually don't include choice of bulb and are therefore more expensive. Plus I've delt with them twice, with success. Really if you are planning on a canopy I'd go ahead and do a retrofit kit, even if it's pc. it'll save you money, and won't be as bulky. Fixtures were designed for tanks without canopies. Retrofits were designed for tanks with canopies.



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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 21:44Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for detailed breakdown matty. So pretty much without the legs it will fit. The retrofit sounds interesting, but as Wings points out I'm gonna be taking this thing on and off quite often especially with all the trimming I do, so it's got to be smooth and easy.



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How much smoother can it be than just taking one thing off? If you have a fixture on the tank, you have to take off the canopy and the fixture, unless you can work around the fixture.



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I don't think the AGA canopies are designed for massive light and with it massive heat, but I don't know that for fact.

One thing is for sure though ( - or not, but I think so): a massive canopy makes any tank look smaller as it appears without it.

Oh, and as for where I got my lights: The super sized fixture on the 125 was from Hellolights, they were the only ones to offer a 72" fixture for shipping and had a great prize as well. My other fixtures are all from Big Al's as the price is pretty much the same, but I get points and fast delivery at less cost.

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Post InfoPosted 01-Sep-2006 13:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks LF for your comments on the females and the lights.
I guess the drama continues, because I'm not convinced of anything with these females and I am convinced the stores don't know what they are getting some times.

Anyway as far as the lights. I too like ordering from Big Als when I can for the reasons you stated, but right now the lighting prices I'm getting for the 48" are:

BigAls $230 (some reason the salt one with lunar is $200)
AquaBuys $200
HelloLgt $195

DrsF&S isn't listing the freshwater one, but the salt is $200. I've started to notice their pricing is beating bigals alot lately. Also why are the freshwater aqualights always in the alumimun housing and the saltwate ones in the black? Any clue?

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The ones we get at my store are all the aluminium just with different bulbs. Changes are they are trying to make them different for less confusion.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 01-Sep-2006 14:50Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Yeah, I don't know why they do that either. My 72" unit is black, but it has by default 2 actinic and 2 10,000K bulbs in it, aka saltwater setup.

I am with Matty on the female Apistos, they all look alot alike, well - at least most do. It may be interesting to start bets on how long it will take until all sub-species are mixed up in one gene pool.

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A couple of rare morning photos of my tank. Tough to take morning shots with the glare coming from the back of my kitchen hits the tank, but here ya go.

Here is a full tank shot. A couple of changes to note:

The rocks have been reworked alittle more to show more constrast between the riccia and the blyxa. In order to do this I had to remove some more wisteria (holds breadth, right LF)

I think the tank is even more random, even the center area is not as "manicured" I also like the way the wisteria randomly exists around the foreground keeping it together.

Attached Image:


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A closeup shot showing the different levels and such in the tank. Also alot of fish activity. Those 4 rummys who have been with me since the beginning still school nicely. Much better schoolers than the cardinals, but unfortunately for most hours of the day they don't show up well in the tank.

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I had about 10 rummys about a year ago, and I never saw them. The tank was planted up with (gasp) fake plants and driftwood so there were plenty of places to hide and they used them all the time. The water stayed very clean, they had a TON of color, and there wasn't a whole lot of traffic in front of the tank or anything, they just hid....all the time. I think they were the most disappointing fish I ever bought. Once in a while I'd put my hand behind and on the sides of the tank to scare them out...this was the only time I ever saw them.



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Very nice tetratech, and looking way more diverse than before. I like how the wisteria is arranged in a cresent shape on the right of the tall group, coming taller from the back and wrapping low to the front.

Currently, I find the tall rock with Riccia too massive for the rest of the arrangement. And it hasn't even fully grown in yet. Most other places in your tank have smaller spots with the same plants, as you point out the break up of Riccia in the front with wisteria. This one though is one big Riccia spot. Just my opinion,

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Post InfoPosted 03-Sep-2006 15:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice shots & nice changes. Those rummys look really nice.

Cheers
TW
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tetratech
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Matty,
That is pretty much the opposite of my small rummynose school. They are pretty much back and forth in front all day. Did you have any predator type fish with them?

LF,

I like how the wisteria is arranged in a cresent shape on the right of the tall group, coming taller from the back and wrapping low to the front.

Glad you noticed that, it is one of my favority spots of the tank right now.

Currently, I find the tall rock with Riccia too massive for the rest of the arrangement.

I don't disagree with you, I'm still playing around with the placement of the large riccia rocks. The right covered rock is alot bigger than the right covered one. I went with rocks I had (remember I'm the other Jeff) and the left one is really too small or the right one is too big, I'll probably end up replacing the left one and making it bigger.

Robyn,

Thanks

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tetratech,

I agree, the left one could be a little bigger, but the right one should be a little smaller as well. It right now has the size of the entire plant species to the left of it (rotala, right?). Maybe not in height but in width it does so.

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tetratech
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LF,
I've made a quick change just for you. See if you can notice the difference:

Here's the first photo again:



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tetratech
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And here's the LF change:



Attached Image:


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You raised the rock on the left, or replace it with a larger one

Right?

Makes the left side more fitting to the right, nevertheless, IMHO the one on the right is too big.

Sorry to be such a PITA, but there is nothing else to bicker about in your tank

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Sep-2006 16:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yes, I raised the rock (couldn't cover a new one with the riccia that fast) and put some pieces of wisteria in front of the rock. Your right though the rock on the left actually had already been lifted by another rock underneath. I simply adding another rock to lift it higher. I'll probably go looking for better rocks but I'm pretty much using what I had. Actually the rock on the left is a petrified wood and the big rock on the right is a moss stone I had in my backyard.

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and the big rock on the right is a moss stone I had in my backyard
You know, my wife has some small bolderish looking rocks as borders for her flower beds. You have no idea how often I had been tempted to steal one or the other so I can add them to my tank

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tetratech
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You know, my wife has some small bolderish looking rocks as borders for her flower beds

I would take one and replace it with a fake rock. If she's like my wife, she won't notice the difference.

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mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Did you have any predator type fish with them?


Well a couple of apistos, but that wouldn't bug them I don't think. That's all that was in the tank other than a clown pleco.

I was a bit tired when I wrote that post and forgot to actually comment on your tank

I think the new "LF" change really helps balance out the tank in a way I personally(in my lack of scaping skills) couldn't put a finger on.

One thing I like are the little stand alone "adventuresome" wisteria here and there. It looks very realistic in the "it just happened to land right here" sort of way. I'm hoping to get this affect in my tank eventually. I don't want blocks of plants, but sort of a natural blurring and a few adventuresome plants here and there. A little bit of blyxa or chain sword popping up out of the feild of baby's tears or something like that. Maybe an epic battle between the oncoming rush of glosso coming down the falls and the bit of moss clinging for dear life on a rock popping out from the falls. Something like that would be pretty cool, and I think you have a bit of that in the random spots you've been working on.



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Post InfoPosted 04-Sep-2006 03:56Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Lately, a couple of us have talked about new rocks & sometimes finding them (or stealing from wive's gardens).

I wondered if this link I stumbled across might help, in making sure the rocks are aquarium safe. It seems to say the vinegar test may not always work.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php

Cheers
TW
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Hi,
Good article Robyn. We carry dilute HCl in to the field
to test for carbonates. Vinegar will not work on all
carbonates for a few reasons. First, the carbonate bond
may be too strong and the acid too weak to break the
bonds. Second, could be due to surface weathering. As the
rock is exposed to the elements, it develops a layer on
the surface that can be a few microns thick to fractions
of an inch thick. This weathering rind will prevent the
acid from reaching the unweathered carbonate below the
rind, and give a false reading. Generally, to eliminate
that possibility, we scratch the surface of the rock or
cleave a piece off the the sample so we get a fresh,
unweathered surface and test on that surface.
The idea of the vinegar was to use an acid that is
most commonly found in nearly every household.
Not everyone has access to HCl.

Frank


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Robyn,

Frank wrote what I thought once I was finished skimming through the article.

Even if I had access to such chemicals, how often would I need them? Maybe once in 6 months if I have multiple tanks, maybe only once at all. Any chemical that I don't need to store in the house is a good one

Vinegar and a little bit of faith will have to do, at least for me.

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Thanks Frank & LF

I received the article via a newsletter I get from having signed up to a US cichlid forum. I wonder why they advise the use of something that is not readily available - seems a bit pointless doesn't it.

Just out of curiousity, I'm going to ask around here in Aus how hard it is to get, but experience tells me that if you find it hard, so will I. My children are all older, so I need not be so worried as LF in regards to having chemicals in the house.

I was interested, cause I tried the vinegar test on my gravel in the 43G & even after scratching the surface, I got no result. But something affects pH & hardness in that tank, even during a time when nothing other than fish, plants, wood & gravel were in there. So I was already doubting the vinegar test, before I read this.

Cheers
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Well I think one of my bolivians has died. I haven't seen him in 7 days even at feeding time. One of my bolivians is about 2 years old.

Great now I have one bolivian, one bosemani. I might bring the bosemani back along with maybe the 5 pencils to reduce the species count.

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Sorry about the Bolivian tetra. We discussed his age a few weeks ago, I wonder if it was indeed him. If so, at least you know he lived a good long life... after the hwole, ya know, brewery thing...


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Sorry for the loss tetratch. Will you get a new friend for the surviving bolivian?

Cheers
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Thanks guys. Yes, we did talk about it Nowher and I knew it was coming. Robyn, I probably won't replace the ram, because the other one is pretty old too and I'm currently reevaluting the stock in my tank. Don't like to get rid of anything, but I'd like to move more toward a one species schooling fish. I still have the two young blue rams in there to compliment the schools I have.

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Sorry about the Ram, tetratech

Do you think it has been completely eaten by the tank mates? I would seriously start looking around in the tank for any remains.

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Do you think it has been completely eaten by the tank mates? I would seriously start looking around in the tank for any remains

Thanks LF, I honestly can't find it. I started poking aroudn the back but no luck. I also have about 7 Amano shrimp in the tank. They probably picked at it as well.

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Sorry bout the ram, tetratech. It seems like everybody is having fish drop off, bummer.

In well established tanks(especially one with inverts or scavengers), unless you find them right away, you probably won't find them at all.



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In well established tanks(especially one with inverts or scavengers), unless you find them right away, you probably won't find them at all
.
Yeah, I'm sure your right. Between the shrimp, kuli, corys and otos I'm sure it's pretty much gone.....

Does seem like a bad month so far for Cichlids here at FP

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Between the shrimp, kuli, corys and otos I'm sure it's pretty much gone.....
I didn't know you had corys in there too!

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Yeah,

I think he has one Cory in there, right tetratech? Isn't he the sole surviving cory when your former tank had a nuclear meltdown?

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Hence the Bensaf fish stocking style.

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I think he has one Cory in there, right tetratech? Isn't he the sole surviving cory when your former tank had a nuclear meltdown

Yeah, he seem pretty happy. I know the cory addicts don't approve, but I don't have much of a foreground otherwise I would get more.

Speaking of single fish I think I might return my one bosemani to the LFS today.

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Sounds good tetratech,

I am sure he is a lonely fellow in your tank there. Although one never knows where he will end up next, there is a chance that he will be better off.

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I am sure he is a lonely fellow in your tank there. Although one never knows where he will end up next, there is a chance that he will be better off.


You are right of course, but I know of one LFS that has an endcap 72g with all rainbows in it and supposely they don't sell them. It's just display so I'll try to get him in there.



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A couple of nice schooling shots:



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When cardinals school they are tough to beat IMO.



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A couple of current tank shots. First before a major trim.



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and how the tank looks right now after a major trim. I also lightened up the stargrass groupings, making them more like accents. I just feel the plant is too much maint.in a hi-light, co2 tank. The aromatica, rotala and of course wistera are much more manageable.



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I've also repositioned the wood on the right so it's resting right on the ricca covered rock. Something about ricca in contact with DW

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The larger ricca stones closer to the light pearl much more than the lower stones in the foreground. Since they are in the same tank, the conclusion is pretty solid that hi-light is important for the riccia to pearl, although the lower ricca looks fine and does pearl sometimes, especially after a trim when the main group isn't shading it as much.

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When cardinals school they are tough to beat IMO.
And therein lies the problem, "When" they school. I am sure you had to get the whole family to dance around the tank and to scare them stiff in order for them to school so tight

No seriously, nice shots tetratech. Not surprisingly do I concur that the Riccia does much better with more light.

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And therein lies the problem, "When" they school. I am sure you had to get the whole family to dance around the tank and to scare them stiff in order for them to school so tight

We danced, we sung and of course we "blessed the rains down in Africa"

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But seriously, how come that they schooled so nicely? Or do they do that on a frequent basis? I thought I remembered that you mentioned the lack of schooling in your cardinals.

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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
So speaking of cardinals. Yours look quite nice. We got in some very nice cardinals and neons from FL sometime last week. Needles to say the Neons are gone and the Cardinals are almost gone. I was very tempted to bring some home because they hardly ever look that good. They were always schooling rather tightly too.

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But seriously, how come that they schooled so nicely? Or do they do that on a frequent basis? I thought I remembered that you mentioned the lack of schooling in your cardinals
.
No they usually don't school that's why I took the pics. I've noticed though now that the other bosemani is gone the remaining one chases all the fish around so that might have somthing to do with it.

Wings, I don't know if you remember, but the survival rate of my cardinals went up dramatically since I installed the UV. Absolutely without a doubt it made a hugh difference.
Once cards make it through the first few weeks their actually pretty tough fish and the UV helps them through the acclimation process when their immune systems are compromised by all the stress, thus open them up to parasites that are usually in the water.


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
A UV filter is one of the few gadgets that I am looking into. The problem I see would be to get the right flow on a filter to assure that the light would kill all free swimming algae, my main concern. If, at the same flow rate, it would kill parasites and what not as well, that would be even better.

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A UV filter is one of the few gadgets that I am looking into. The problem I see would be to get the right flow on a filter to assure that the light would kill all free swimming algae, my main concern. If, at the same flow rate, it would kill parasites and what not as well, that would be even better.


I think that's another testament to how slow my flow rate is in my tank. The flow rate for killing parasites is slower than that for free floating algae and I'm obviously convinced of the effect the UV has had on cardinal survivability. I don't know how exact the recommended flows are for killing parsites, bacteria and/or algae. I'm sure it's not black and white, but rather how effective the kill rate is.

Let's face it. There are parasites probably in most fishes if not all. Why do you think fish get ich when they are stressed. I think it would be almost impossible to buy fish that you know don't have parasites (like untitled suggested with Blue Rams) I don't believe that's a realistic alternative, it's more realistic to keep the parasite suppressed so the fish lives a normal life.

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Yeah I know that your Cards did way better after adding the UV. I have thought about adding one but that is a lot of extra cash to spend on something that I probably don't need right now. Some day if I get into fish like Card or Neons I might get on.

I was just saying before that the fish that came in were hard to resist from buying. They hardly ever look so good.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
A UV that is in charge of killing parasites would be rather useless to me in the big tank as all fish go for 3 to 4 weeks into the QT first anyway. And rigging that tank to include a UV seems more trouble than not.

My main objective would be algae - DESTROY

Ingo

EDIT: Closing in on 2000, aren't we?


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EditedEdited by tetratech
A UV that is in charge of killing parasites would be rather useless to me in the big tank as all fish go for 3 to 4 weeks into the QT





O.K. so because your little fishes are in QT for 3/4 weeks they don't have parasites. I honestly think it's more the other way around. The UV almost makes the QT useless. With the UV I know it's continuosly killing anything that gets into the water with the QT, just because the parasite doesn't rear it's ugly head in a months time doesn't mean they aren't there, lurking, waiting for an opportunity. If the fish visiblity looks good when purchased, without any obvious signs of illness, I would take a UV over a QT anytime.

EDIT: And yes you could use my 2000 post to respond

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And yes you could use my 2000 post to respond
The I will do that

First off, Hey 2000

If the UV is that good then I agree. If it wouldn't be for all kinds of "issues" that could be carried in with a new fish that are outside of the parasite vs. UV battle.

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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Here is my view on things. I think most people have problems with their fish when they don't take care of them proporly. Most people don't do Water changes the corect way, often enough or their tank is not yet cycled. This lack of tank care leads to weak fish and opens the door to things like parasites or any other issue a fish may face. If you know the cycling process and are good about your water changes you shouldn't have many issues with most fish. Though there are some fish that are touchier than other. Things like your cards. When adding new fish to your tank a drip method will work wonders. Also it is good to buy fish from a good source. Make sure there hasn't been any losses in the LFS tank. Personaly I think a QT is a good idea because who knows what a fish might come with. Plus it is easeir to pull a fish from a QT than a thick plantet tank. On the down side once the fish gets used to the QT and you are sure its healthy you are going to move it again causing more stress. Where the UV may come in handy.

I really think this is a six to one and half a dozen to the other type of argument and it will really depend on the situation.

for 2000 post in your log Tetra!

I will be happy to hit 200 with mine! I guess a camera would help maters...

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well, thanks for the 2000 congrats! I'll just say 2000 posts to my thread and I'm still married.

Anyway, I'm not saying the QT is a waste. It could only help detect something, but I don't think because a fish spends a month in QT it could be declared healthy. Yes, of course there are things that the UV won't catch or destroy, but most problems with fish happen in the first few weeks, thus the logic behind the QT. The fundamental difference I have is that fish have parasites or are e to infection when they are stressed. So if you put a fish in your tank after QT and something stresses it and there is something in the tank the fish might still become sick, but if you have a UV constantly destroying things, than the fish will not be open to infection when it gets stressed. I noticed this first hand with the cardinals and of course my blue rams look fine. I don't think you could ever say you bought a fish without parasites just by looking at it.

BTW - I've never had a QT. Ever fish I bought for my 72g went straight in and I've never had an outbreak of anything since the UV went in.

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bought a fish without parasites just by looking at it.
Really who knows! Can you see them when they aren't hanging off the fish?

One other thing. Don't add LFS water to your tank will help matters also. I buy all most stuff now from my own store and I don't mix waters.

So point of the story is for fish like rams and cards a UV is the deal?

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If I could afford a UV sterilizer, I'd plumb one in under my tank in a heartbeat. I wouldn't use it all the time, but if I were getting new fish, or the fish seemed stressed for some reason, I'd turn it on for a few weeks. Unfortunately, they'll never come down much in price without suffering in the effectiveness category, due to the crystal(not glass) used for the UV bulb sleeve. those things are just down right difficult to make, ship, and on top they break easily. They make all different sizes capable of handling different flow rates. I'm not sure if that was answered. A higher wattage bulb is also longer, meaning that parasites are exposed to the UV longer, so a higher flow rate can be used.



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I'm not sure if that was answered. A higher wattage bulb is also longer, meaning that parasites are exposed to the UV longer, so a higher flow rate can be used.

That's a a really good point. The stronger uv will not require as slow a rate as the smaller ones.

I have the coralife 9W, about $70 online. That's another reason why I think my flow is pretty slow, because it is killing parasites (from what I could tell) The eheim is only 185gph to begin with, plus you have the height, the UV on the return, plus I can't remember the last time I cleaned it. (probably 3 months)

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EditedEdited by tetratech
O.K. I usually don't like my tank right after I trim, but for some reason the tank I thought was looking pretty good. So the following are 3 pics that start out as a full tank shot and then go further into the center.

Driftwood is a funny thing. I was never really thrilled with my DW(preferred LF's ADG Wood, but the pieces in these pics are the same pieces I've had for a long time just rearranged and they actually don't look to bad.

First a full tank shot with baby nano (update probably within a few days) to the left:






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A little closer:



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and even closer:



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I see floating wisteria

Looks great, but I think you should keep going, and make a flip book animation, where it looks like you are falling from outside the tank into the riccia rocks or something.



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preferred LF's ADG Wood


Now if I only knew how to make the ADG wood glow

tetratech,

Looking nice, and the word that struck me first when looking at the tank was "compact". I guess with that I mean that the plants seem full as a mass in the entire tank. There are no gaps or empty spaces, at least not in the areas where there shouldn't be any. The only thing that I think does not quite fit, and I mentioned this before, is that the large Riccia rock at the right of the main group in the back, is too large of an even structure. When the Ricca there is in full swing it will take the focus away from the main plant group.

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Looks great, but I think you should keep going, and make a flip book animation, where it looks like you are falling from outside the tank into the riccia rocks or something.

uh, thanks

LF,
My young grasshopper. Yes the riccia rock on the right looks big I agree, but the tank was just trimmed so the stems are small.

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LITTLE_FISH
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My young grasshopper
Glad you didn't call me "Old Man"

Yes, you just trimmed the tank. But I made the same statement when it was not trimmed. And I am sticking to it. What else can I do? Otherwise, all I would have to say is "Looks really nice" and that would be boring, wouldn't it?

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Post InfoPosted 12-Sep-2006 14:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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But I made the same statement when it was not trimmed. And I am sticking to it

Ever since you got that promotion.

Anywho, I guess we'll see next set of pics in a few days when things grow in a bit.

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Looks good tetra. I can see you eventually replacing the wisteria on the right with more big riccia rocks and then planting some stems behind them, like some of Amano's old tanks or not but I definetly like the use of big riccia stones


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Thanks nowher Yeah the big ricca stones are really .
The thought did cross my mind to actually take out all my stems plants except the aromatica and add different levels of riccia stones throughout. Notice the blyxa group on the left looks much fuller. It's getting better light since the riccia doesnt' shade it as much as the stargrass/wisteria used to.

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It's getting better light since the riccia doesnt' shade it as much as the stargrass/wisteria used to
- I think it gets its light from the Nano -

Big Riccia rocks

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Post InfoPosted 12-Sep-2006 16:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I think it gets its light from the Nano

Never thought about that

Big Riccia rocks

You know you want some

Amano with eggs:



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tetratech
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Something about an Amano shrimp on riccia. I think an image like this is what got me into planted aquaria. I've fulfilled a dream. "A shrimp on a piece of floating weed held down by a woman's hairnet".

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So do I still need to send you some salt for that shrimp of yours?

As always Tetra...Very nice!

Any thoughts of adding more wood? Maybe just one or two more chunks?

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Post InfoPosted 12-Sep-2006 20:19Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice Amano shrimpsters, tetratech

Cool to see the eggs in the first shot. Just the other day I was looking into some thread here at FP (don't remember the forum) where Cali linked to some shrimp site. Either directly on that site, or by perusing the web thereafter, I read that Amano shrimp babies have a larvea stage that requires almost pure saltwater for them to survive.

Oh - now my old age is setting in - did I get this confused with your Ninja shrimp? Or maybe it was both? Man, I really can't remember now

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Post InfoPosted 13-Sep-2006 13:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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No, you got that right. The amano fry supposely need some salt to survive. Supposely the adults live in freshwater streams, but the fry when born float back to saltwater and eventually end up back in the stream. It could be worse, you could be a salmon.

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Now this is really funny. Well done tetratech, I guess you couldn't stand the non-dynamic title anymore



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tetratech
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Thanks for the acknowledgement LF!
and on with the show............

You know your a plantgeek, when things like this are more exciting than the fish swimming around. Here is shot of how my wisteria runs through the riccia covered rocks in part of my foreground. These have not been clipped by me and are crawling through from the larger wisteria group seen in the midground.




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tetratech
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A closer shot:



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Wingsdlc
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I see you are still cracking the whip! It is nice to see your wisteria still moving around. Mine isn't doing that much any more.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 13-Sep-2006 18:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Full tank shot from this morning. I added an extra DW in the middle but I think it's too thick a piece (yes Wings, I thought about it myself and then you mentioned as well.

Some fish changes as well, nothing new added but I decreased my species count by two. I turned in my 5 pencil fish to a good LFS and my 4 black neons. The pencils and black neons I had from the getgo and only lost one black neon from an ich outbreak prior to my UV. The pencils and neons really disappeared into the tank and because they were about the same size as the cards just added clutter to the look of the tank. I'm probably going to move the bosemani since I only have one and I know a good LFS that has a 72g endcap display tank of all rainbows. Because I still have twenty-something cardinals I'll probably add another 10 or so right off the bat. Actually I did add three more amano shrimp to the tank giving me a total of 10 (I think)


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Post InfoPosted 17-Sep-2006 16:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I'm not too sure I think it's too large/thick a peice of driftwood. I think it fits right in like it's been there the whole time. I actually had to go back in the log to make sure I knew which peice it was that you added.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Sep-2006 16:14Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Tetra,

Nice work on the DW. It looks very natural but a thinner chunk might be better. Leave it be for a while and see if it grows on you.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 18-Sep-2006 03:34Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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So what's the general consenous about me putting my agassizi in my 72g with the bolivian and the blue rams?

I really don't like the way they look in the 12g and I really want the shrimp crawling around Monkey Skull Island.

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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 16:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I think it'll work, tetra. My guess is the agazzssszsszszszs's will find a territory and hang out there, maybe get a little pushy there but nothing terrible.

I know this tank has probably been long torn down, but Amano managed a 40G tank with 4 rams, a pair of a. borelli, pair of cacs and a pair of aggazsamajiggers. Im sure it'll work fine.

And good call on the fish stock. It's nicer to have one big group than a few small ones, but these sort of things happen when you get into the hobby and develop your tastes and style along the way. What we started out with (tiger barbs in my case ) sometimes ends up being far away from what we eventually like and gravitate towards when it comes to fish.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 16:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks nowhere, I'm probably gonna do it. I think I'm alittle gun shy, because long ago as you said when your sorta feeling out fish I threw a pair of kribs in my old 46g and I had some rams at the time and I'm pretty sure I lost a few from the stress that the kribs gave them, but I don't think the agassiz are nearly as agresssive as kribs. I might have issues if and when they decide to breed.

Yeah I'm definitey happier with less species at this point. I will probably move the rainbow later this week.
Even though I'll still have 9 species in the tank only two really patrol the middle of the water column. The rest are either bottom feeders or rams that pretty much stay on the bottom.

Cardinals (23)
Rummynose (4)
Blue rams (2)
Bolivian rams (1)
Apistos (2 - if added)
Otos (7 or 8)
Cory (1 - might add a few more)
Kuhli loaches (2)
Amano shrimp (9 or 10)





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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 16:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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The only theoretical conflict I could see would be the apistos and the cories - there are more than a few cases of apistos doing some eye-pecking at cories when they breed. Could be an issue, might not be. But there's a good deal of precedent for it, so just one thing to consider.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 17:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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The only theoretical conflict I could see would be the apistos and the cories -

That doesn't sound good since I only have one cory and he would need his sight to get around since he doesn't have a school to rely on.

Well it is done. I ordered the 48" coralife reflector. So I'm moving up to 1.8/3.6wpg lighting schedule.

What am I getting myself into

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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 23:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well it is done. I ordered the 48" coralife reflector.


yay. Can't wait to see the colors POP in your stems. I'm actually thinking of going with another 96w pc strip on mine. It might just be initial growth, but things are a little leggy down on the substrate and a lot of the glosso growth was straight up. I'll give it some time, though.

And nowhere, don't make fun of the tiger barbs....they are still one of my fav fish ever.

I think the apistos will be fine in there too. Not an ideal situation, but I think it should work fine. There's lots of cover and plenty of room.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 00:04Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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So I'm moving up to 1.8/3.6wpg lighting schedule.

What am I getting myself into
Yeah whatever. I am running 3.25/6.5wpg. I think the 6.5 is now up to around 2 hours. About 10 minutes after that light comes on the plants pearl like crazy! Overall lights is only at 9-10 hours. No signs of bad stuff poping up in the tank though the Otos have been extra crazy eating....

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 14:40Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yeah whatever. I am running 3.25/6.5wpg

You the Man!

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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 15:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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The 48" light is pretty good, that's what I have for my new big tank now. I like Coralife fixtures, definetely good quality. Made me realize one of my rookie mistakes - I must have gone through 3 light hoods on the 46 before settling on a good one. The moral of the story, of course, is to just buy the best one you can right from the beginning, because you're wasting money in the long run.
I have the 4X65 one, and I'm interested to see how it makes a difference on your tank


Matty, I'm actually still a fan of tiger bards, I think they're absolutely beautiful... just not in their personalities. One big male killed off some smaller ones. I couldn't add anything to their tank, when i first added BN they pecked at it whenever it came out of its cave. Like little pirhanas. They used to peck at my hand when in the tank. I would love to do a 30 or so gallon species tank with them, but that's for the future. They just dont fit in with the "peaceful" planted tank theme.


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 15:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Sorry tetratech to take up more of the thread, but I have to put this up for nowher(you can also see the ugly beginnings of my planted tank attemptsbut my anubias IS flowering):

Attached Image:

bware!




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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 16:14Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The 48" light is pretty good

So were gonna have the same light you on your 65g and my on my 72g . So your pushing 4wpg, not as much as wings 6.5wpg, but we all can't be total animals.

BTW - everything work out O.K. with Glass Cages. I heard some iffy things about them.

Matty,
It's O.K. you could show your killer fish on my thread. Nothing scares me I have a tank full of starving cardinal tetras. They are cousins to the piranha.

EDIT: Forgot to mention when I ordered the 48" light I also orderd 10,000k and Actintic 96watt bulbs for my 36" fixutre that will go on my reef tank. So that will give my 192w on the 46g. Yep I'm almost there Matty...............


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 21:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Actually, I'm probably not going to use the 4WPG. For what I'm going for it won't be needed, but again, I just wanted it just in case someday I do decide I want to make my life harder than it is a have a full 4WPG tank

Everything went smooth with glasscages. I think a fair comparison with them is B&H camera in NYC. If you go in there and you know what you want, everything is fine. But if you go in all iffy about what youre looking for, they'll probably get a little short with you. I knew what I wanted so everything was fine. Plus the quality of the product is very good, and the price was unbeatable. No complaints.

That said, I can see where people would call them iffy. Some of their glass aquariums look sloppy in the seals on the website. I also wouldn't get a very very big tank from them, especially a rimless even though they say they'll make them. But like I said, I'm very happy with the product I got from them.

As for Matty's pic, those plants seem to be crying out, "Nitrates!... give us nitrates!!! and potassium!"


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 21:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And what the crap is that on the bottem of the tank Matty? Did your girl friend pick that out for you?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 22:05Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Boah,

Gone for a little while and when I come back I see that the light(sabre) wars have broken out .

Anyway, I find the idea of getting a longer light unit a good one, but I think I stated that a few times already

And I must have missed most of the camera talk, so no comment there.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 23:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
I would take that plant out of that plastic plant and
replant it in the substrate. Let the plant grow and
spread its roots and it will get even more nutrients.
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 23:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Frank, I guess I should have stated that the pic was taken 3 years ago now. The anubias was eventually taken out of the pot and grew to about 2 feet before I had to get rid of it this summer.

I only have 2 tanks now, none of which have blue gravel. I think for the most part the plants were crying out for light and CO2...there was plenty in the way of nitrates...maybe not potassium, but it was just a wreck of a tank. I just thought the pic was fitting for nowhers comments.

Did your girl friend pick that out for you?

*Shakes fish at wings*

Glad to hear the SW tank is coming along, I was starting to get nervous!



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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 23:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I decided to move my apistos into my 72g. They just didn't loook right in the 12g. I guess I'm more into the scape and the fish are secondary. Also the java covered mountain is perfect for a bunch of shrimps to be walking on and keeping it clean.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 16:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Good move, IMO. I thought the male looked a bit too big for the 12 as well. The shrimps will probably make that tank zero effort, cleaning up the java moss.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 16:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah,

Sounds like a good move to me as well. Just keep an eye on the potential territory fights that may happen soon, once they are settled it should be peaceful again, until breeding season kicks in

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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 17:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Sounds like a good move to me as well. Just keep an eye on the potential territory fights that may happen soon, once they are settled it should be peaceful again, until breeding season kicks in

Well if my saltwater tank is not successful, the 46g bow could one day be a breeder tank. I'm waiting for my lights to come in (should arrive Thursday) and I should be ready to start setting up the salt water tank.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 17:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Hey...I don't want to hear any of that negative thinking tetratech.

BTW what are you using for water...RO?



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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 23:33Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I guess it's become a tradition so here's my one year recap:

Initial setup of tank with just the hardscape. My wife took one look and say "Apolcalyptic" I was off to a great start.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Day 1 with plants added didn't look that much better. Nice bubble ladder on a 72g.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Day 14 brought nice plant growth but with it Greenwater and a willow tree.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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By day 30 I beat back the GW and the tank saw some nice lush growth.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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At 3 months the lush growth was gone, due probably to an underdose of macros.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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But the depleted plant groupings gave me a chance to order some new plant species.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Jumping ahead to 6 months, the "Stellaromatica" clearly become the dominate plant in my setup:



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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At 9 months IMO the tank kinda peaked and took on it's lushest look yet.


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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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At 10 months I started to cut back some of the wisteria to make room for more of a beachfront with more riccia, rock and blyxa.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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At 11 months I took the riccia into the midground of the tank.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
During the year I certainly had my down points, which included: greewwater, fert deficienies, some interesting comments that included: "..your center rock looks like Hendrix with a frow", "crushed crab legs", "still life", but overall I received far more positive comments so I think it was an up year. Special thanks to LF, Nowher, Wings, Matty, Tankwatcher for posting in the thread and of course to Bensaf who pretty much schooled me and forced me to stick with EI even when it was as alien as ET. Anyway here is the tank at 1 year. After adding these big ricca pieces to the midground the tank still needs some fine-tuning. So the pursuit of perfection goes on....



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 05:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice review tetra but I wish you would have really shown the GW! It was really bad in there if I remember right. For the newer people the green water being gone didn't have much to do with the willow trees but the UV.

Did you add more cards? I count 16!

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 13:59Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well tetratech,

Thank you so much for your annual update, it shows how the tank evolved over time in just a few pictures. If there would have been a competition (which was not the case) on who of us has achieved more (in the scaping department, at least) during that one year then you would have been easily the winner (everyone who would say otherwise just doesn't want to hurt me, ).

After a relative short ride-in time you started to successfully change small things in the tank to make it look better and better, very nice.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 14:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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BTW...

See my log!

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 15:05Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Well, LF I see you started a very interesting trend. Nice to see your journey, tetratech.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 16:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks all for the comments. Looking forward to seeing yours one day Tankwatcher.

BTW - Did anyone notice the cardinals in the middle of the tank on the last shot. I've noticed better schooling behavior since I reduced the species of tetras. Probably just coincedence.


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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 16:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Probably just coincedence
I don't think so. You may remember that I once wrote about the schooling of my Espei (not tetras - I know). When the group was really large there was no schooling at all anymore as fish were everywhere. Once reduced in numbers, the schooling started again.

I see the same possibility with your tank. There was just no need to school.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 17:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don't think so. You may remember that I once wrote about the schooling of my Espei (not tetras - I know). When the group was really large there was no schooling at all anymore as fish were everywhere. Once reduced in numbers, the schooling started again.

Thanks, but in this case the reduction is with other species of tetras not the cardinals.



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Same deal tetratech,

Schools form because the fish stay in formation if there is too much open space in which a potential predator may hide. If fish are in the open everywhere then there is no space left for a predator anymore, or he would have eaten one of the fish already.

Ergo: Fish, not even from the same species but similar in size and as such similar "food" for predators, will see no need to hold formation if there is no chance that they will be in danger.

At least this is my reasoning,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 17:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Did you add more cards? I count 16!
I saw the Cards. They look nice. What is your count!

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 17:49Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I saw the Cards. They look nice. What is your count!

I've had 22/23 for a long time now. I'm actually thinking about adding 10 more, but not before I get rid of the rainbow. It's a beautiful fish, but it really doesn't fit in the tank and makes a difficult to feed all the cichlids, let alone the waste he produces. Once gone I think all of my fish will be south american.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 17:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice Summary there tetratech. I really have to say I like the current version the best. The extra DW peice really stands out along with more of the riccia rocks. I know the stems in back probably aren't full due to the addition of the DW so once those fill back in it will be even nicer.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 19:07Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for the comments Matty. Needs some tweaking but I like the current pics too.

Well I guess it's fitting that I'll be starting off the second year of the tank with a new lights that should be arriving today. I'm going from 192 to 260watt total. Hopefully it wasn't a mistake and the tank can handle it.
I guess if it's too much light it would be a good excuse to use the new 4 foot fixture on a 5 foot tank.

With the new lights, I did think about making a fresh start and tearing the tank down and build something completely different. Maybe that's a good plan keep the tank for a year for better or for worse and then try something new every year. Unfortunately I don't think I would have the time to do that right now and besides I do have the darkside tank to setup shortly.

Another concern is the light will make the plants grow faster and I'll have to trim even more. The "10 second tidy" coined by Bensaf will become a "20 second tidy" and believe me 10 seconds a day adds up One thing I like right now is the growth rate of the riccia. It grows fine by not so fast that I'm constantly trimming it. The foreground riccia pearls at times, but the midgrond stuff is another story. With the new lights I'll probably have to trim all of it more, not to mention the pearling gives the riccia more boyancy and pulls it away from the attached rock.

Here's a pic through the side last nite showing massive riccia pearling and the rotala joined in too. This is true pearling and not based on a water change.

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As you know I am running 260W on my 40G now for a few weeks. I have found that my growth hasn't really taken off that much but the plants pearl much more often. I don't think they are trying to get to the light as fast being they are getting good light.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 20:16Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice pearling there tetratech..I'd love to see a nice supermacro of that...It would make me want to get a 125G full of pearling riccia so I can lay down in it.

IMO the real limiting factor for actual upwards growth in most well lit aquaria is not light. It's the other stuff like CO2 and N and P. I kinda agree with wings. I haven't noticed faster upward growth with more light(as compared to my 38g with 2ish wpg), actually less. Most things tend to grow bushier instead. I have noticed more growth from the chain swords and the baby's tears have really startled me with their rate of growth.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 01:22Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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the real limiting factor for actual upwards growth in most well lit aquaria is not light. It's the other stuff like CO2 and N and P. I kinda agree with wings. I haven't noticed faster upward growth with more light(as compared to my 38g with 2ish wpg), actually less. Most things tend to grow bushier instead. I have noticed more growth from the chain swords and the baby's tears have really startled me with their rate of growth.

Well I hope that applys to the riccia as well. Bushier sounds good!

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Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 01:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'll watch what happens with your light very lots of interest. I couldn't decide for longest time what light to get for my still empty 4ft. Firstly I paid & ordered the 48" light, then I rang the guy put it on hold while I thought about putting the 3ft light on the 4ft tank. He kept telling me the legs wouldn't work, but the light manufacturer said he'd make a 4ft light, but only put the light fittings of a 3 footer in there. As usual, I procrastinated for the longest time - but when I saw you've ordered the 4footer, I did the same.

So, I'll really be interested to see how it goes. I think bushier growth, rather than upwards growth, sounds good too. Upward growth just means more frequent trimming.

Can't wait to see all that bushy new growth in your tank.

Cheers
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well I installed the new light today. Some pros and cons right off the bat:

Pros:
-Consistent light across the entire tank. I could really see my riccia in the corners now.
-It's easier to clean the glass top, since the light isn't sitting on the top but is up on the 1.5 inch legs.
-Visually it looks alittle nicer that the light is the length of the tank.

Cons:
-Becuase the light is raised 1.5 inches it lights up the glass top as well, showing off the dirt, etc. I guess I'll be clean this more often.
-It's very tempting to go without the glass top, which I'm sure one could do, but you see all the braces on the AGA tank.
-And the biggest con is that it makes me want a braceless tank even more

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Post InfoPosted 30-Sep-2006 16:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Can we see a picture of the tank with the new light, pretty please.

Cheers
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I am with Robyn,

Can we see a shot of the whole tank with the new light in place?

Also, what is your plan for lighting hours?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It may not look like I follow this thread, but I do. This and LITTLE_FISH thread are so much fun to read, but I hardly post.

I'd like to see a full shot with the new lights, also.
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
-Visually it looks alittle nicer that the light is the length of the tank.
Really? Prove it!

-It's very tempting to go without the glass top, which I'm sure one could do, but you see all the braces on the AGA tank
Yeah don't do it. I did it for quite a while on my tank. I didn't mess up the fixture but if I kept going with it I might have. When I pulled my bulbs to throw into the Current I found one of the screws that holds in the reflecters a bit rusty. Trust me it does look much nicer but we don't want fish tank caused house fires. Your wife will never let you have a fish tank again! And that my friend would be

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Post InfoPosted 05-Oct-2006 14:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Heloooooo...... 's for echo.

*taps foot impatiently for explanation of prolonged absense*





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Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 23:23Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Methinks tetra has moved on to "greener" pastures...


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Post InfoPosted 17-Oct-2006 17:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Without even saying goodbye

but you can't fool me....he still visits.

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Post InfoPosted 17-Oct-2006 17:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I am telling you:

Either he is busy with his new dark side project and wants to keep it a secret until it is set up,
Or he is about to win some major scaping award and wants to await the results,
Or he is bored of us

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 17-Oct-2006 20:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well, Matty, I'm glad that is evidence that he is ok & no tradgedy prevents him joining in, and that is a relief.

Cheers
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Post InfoPosted 18-Oct-2006 00:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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TETRA SPEAKS!!

Sorry for my disappearing act, but it wasn't based on moving to greener pastures or winning a scaping contest or anything exotic. It was actually based on a bet I made with my wife, let me explain:

I do research for large corporations. These projects are usually large and take alot of time to complete. Most of the time I'm able to stagger my deadlines, but over the past few weeks I had many projects that were due at the same time. My wife saw me on FP and said "see that's why your up all nite, yada, yada, yada... So hence the bet, stay off FP for a month. Although I have checked in here and there (couldn't fool the DIY Man) I haven't posted since Sept 30th. I'm almost thru with the tough part of my schedule and the month period will end soon, so I will be back. Looking forward to catching up, looks like some interesting changes are going on with everyone's tanks. Looking forward to discussing (LF style extreme makeover) and talking alittle herpetology with Matty.

BTW - Other than the riccia in the corners growing better, I haven't noticed much change since installing the new light.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Oct-2006 14:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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He is alive!

I might have to make one of those bets with my wife too as she has called me out for playing on here a lot!

Have a good one and look forward to having you back!

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Post InfoPosted 19-Oct-2006 14:45Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yep I finally got permission for a non-fish setup.....the frog just had to be "cute" . Can't wait fo some input on those guys from you....but I won't be getting them real soon so no rush.

Good to know you're just busy. Give us a heads up next time.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Oct-2006 15:39Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Well,

Glad to hear that the only reason you didn't post is some silly bet

Good idea to keep updated with the happenings here, I always loose track when I am not around for even a week.

Til soon,

Ingo

PS: Of course I checked your profile daily and knew that you are around, but don't tell the DIY Man


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Post InfoPosted 19-Oct-2006 17:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Hey tetratech

How is the new light going? Any issues? Can we see a shot with the new light?

Cheers
TW
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With out pictures to prove otherwise we are all going to have to guess that your tank, tetra, is covered in algea. Proof is in the picture!

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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 15:19Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the interest guys, but I've decided to make some changes. Please stay tuned:



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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 20:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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WOOHOO!!! Tetra's thread can continue now!!! /:'


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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 21:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Now I am sure that he will surprise us real good.

A 2000G full wall planted tank paradise?
An African Cichlid tank with no plants?
Low tech?
Riccia Heaven?

What is it?

Ingo


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What is it?
Some funny guy with his head stuck in his fish tank!



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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 14:50Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ahhh....the speculation runs rampant like a plague of mass proportions.

My guess is it's just a bit of rearrangement/exchangement of the hardscape, maybe a new plant or two. I doubt he'd go low tech or non-planted after investing in a new fixture.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 18:52Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Good call on the lights Matty:

Actually my current tank lineup/status is as follows:

72G - Hightlight planted
Under construction/refresh

46G - Saltwater
My problem is location. I definitely want to go with sump and it will be too noisy for bedroom. So I might have to change this to a corner tank for den, which would require me to buy a new corner (55g) and stand. I could corner the 46G bow, but I would still need a stand for it.
Current equipment includes: amiracle slimline sump (which I plant on removing biotray/drip and simply using a sock and skimmer and alot of liverock) Mag 9 pump, livesand, 192watt cf light, overflow, heater

12G - Lowlight planted
Looks good, no problems, but I'm deciding if I want to keep this tank long-term, it get's kinda boring after a while and it's in a location (pantry/bar hallway) that I don't spend alot of time in. (except when I'm stealing the kids snacks) One thing I've learned, don't put a tank where your not gonna be spending some time.

0.5G - Definitely enjoy these little nanos, so much in fact I gave it a brother. So now I have a second 0.5G going on now.

I'm debating whether I want to scrape the 12G and put another hi-light co2 tank in my bedroom and eventually have the saltwater in the den.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 19:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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72G - Hightlight planted
Under construction/refresh
I know I know! Slow moves! But I want to see some pictures!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 16:25Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I know I know! Slow moves! But I want to see some pictures!

Wings you know I'm a "Drama Queen"
I might have some pics later in the weekend /:'

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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 17:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I know I know! Slow moves! But I want to see some pictures!

Wings you know I'm a "Drama Queen"
I might have some pics later in the weekend /:'

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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 17:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Can't wait to see the updates tetra

I'm guessing it had to do with a massive pull up of the wisteria because that hasn't been done in a while. The riccia was spreading, I expect that trend to continue. My guess is it's no longer rock-centric, but mor ewood-centric maybe?

I don't know if tetra was ambitious enough to pull up the substrate and have a sand foreground, but I wouldn't put it past the protist destroyer...


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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 18:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I'm guessing it had to do with a massive pull up of the wisteria because that hasn't been done in a while. The riccia was spreading, I expect that trend to continue. My guess is it's no longer rock-centric, but mor ewood-centric maybe?

I don't know if tetra was ambitious enough to pull up the substrate and have a sand foreground, but I wouldn't put it past the protist destroyer...




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I think Nowher might have hit on something! I guess I will have to keep my cool to find out!

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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 20:06Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The return of the 72 Bowfront

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Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 03:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc


Amazing tetra! How are we soposed to keep up with that? I don't even know what to say!

Dang.......

Tell us about how you did it and such? Any problems? Do you have any pictures of the process?

Wow...

Your tank is now my wallpaper!

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 04:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Very Interesting Tetratech

I am with Wings, I surely would like to know more about the process of the change, the physical as well as the psychological (what made you do it) parts of it.

It looks very nice, and I see that you maintained most of your plant species. Are you intending to keep the Wisteria or will it all be replaced by Riccia once you have enough of it?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 10:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I would also like to request some close ups. If I may...

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Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 15:11Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the comments guys and Wings I'm honored to have my tank represent part of your wallpaper collection. I'm not worthy.

As I think I had mentioned this was a refresh and not a total redo. I think I just got alittle bored and felt it was time for a change. I had seen a few pics of tanks with a two islands through my web-travels and when looking at the beach front I already had, it was easy for my to invision just "wrapping the beachfront all the way around into two islands. Basically I went out and bought 6 or 7 good size pieces of petrified wood that I needed to add to the tank. During a water change I pushed some of the eco toward the sides and held it back with some of the new rocks. Once the "islands" were established I replanted the stems, etc. After doing this there was still alot of eco left in the middle, but instead of using a net and making a mess I siphoned it out with a hose. This took out the eco and the dirty water. This I did over several water changes so I left the tank with less and less eco in the middle over the course of several weeks. Doing it over several weeks was necessary because the large siphon sucked out so much water that I had to stop to refill the tank it also fit into my "slooow moves" MO.

The only problem I ran into was since it was a refresh and not a redo from scratch some of the rocks were resting on the eco so when I got to the end of the eco some of the rocks on the island to the left started to shift so to prevent a collapsed I left some of the eco on the bottom and covered it with some flat shale rocks I had. This prevented the eco from mixing with the sand which I poured on top of the rocks. It also allowed me to use less sand than I would have had to.

Additional plant species is a Crypt (one on each island) and I also added a lotus (right foreground) that I happened to find at the LFS when I was buying the rocks.
(I also found an Anubias Nana that I added to the 12g).
This is my first crypt and the store didn't know what it was, so maybe you guys can give me some pointers and help me ID. I try to post a closer shot.

One minor issue when you do a tank with two areas of different substrate are bottom-dwellers. In this case the kuli loaches are mixing some of the eco into the sand on the sides, but I knew that would happen and I could just suck that out and throw more sand in. The sand is the same pool filter sand I used in the in 12g. One 50lb bag is like $7.

Anyway thanks again for the feedback and Happy Turkey Day!


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Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 22:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Very nice "refresh" indeed. Was it messy adding the sand with water & fish in there? I added some ADA soil to my tank, with fish & water there (although less than half full) and left myself with a filthy mess & temporarily rehoused the fish until things cleared.

You had no such issue?

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TW
Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 23:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Very nice tetratech

Looks equally good, which I couldn't have expected any redo or refresh to instantly match the last tanks good looks. I'm inpressed as always. Happy Thanksgiving to you too!



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Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 05:39Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Cup_of_Lifenoodles
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Very attractive.

Question; are you going to do anything with the two extreme sides of the tank? The empty space looks rather barren, although, to your credit, I cannot aquascape for the life of me, and the tank is already looking gorgeous.
Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 07:31Profile AIM MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
Tainted Glory
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I love the new layout. Everything looks fantastic. I've stared at your last pic for a few minutes trying to come up with something critical and insightful. My only complaint is that it is too symmetrical, if that makes any sense? I'd like to see something one on island to mix is up. Heck, maybe some brancy driftwood on one side would do the trick. But please, post more pics! I'm going to reread this thread from page one now!
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i don't think it's real! lol. it's just too perfect. i've seen people do (what i call) "the-spilt-tank" and it has never looked that good. I think there mistake and what i like about yours is that it's not overdone on each side. You get the idea with the different colored sand you don't need a dense towering forest on each side.

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Boredom,

The situation that sets in once a tank is "finished" and no new tanks can be set up and as such way too much time is available for the hobbyist to think. In your case, it turned out very well.

Thanks for the detailed, and extremely helpful, info on the process of performing this change, but, like Robyn, I am curious about how you managed to add the sand in a filled tank.

About the tank in itself:

I believe your "Two Sides of Paradise" shot (nice name, BTW) is not head on, right? As such it only appears that the "halves" are actually equally sized but in reality the right side is larger. Correct?

There is one thing that I am not too keen about (I know, how can I criticize your tank if mine doesn't even look remotely as well, but I do it anyway ): You have now two different colored beach fronts, the sand and a small stripe of Eco in the front. I would either plant all the way to the front (probably not the best) or slowly keep on replacing the eco there with sand.

Do you remember "Rock Valley"? What I liked about it was that is seemed to have been a cut in the landscape, as if the earth opened and shifted an existing scape apart. As such, the two sides were striving to come back together again. What I want to say, and that is only my personal preference, it would be nice if your halves would not be separated by heart but by nature and if the scape could mimic that. How? - By emphasizing the rift edges as you have partially done already. Thinner branches from both islands reaching towards each other (and as such towards the gap) may be the solution. But again, that may well be just me

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 13:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the commments everyone! I must be doing something right to have some new posters in my thread.

Let's see, oh yeah the sand that Robyn and LF inquired about. As I mentioned it's pool filter sand, I filled a bucket about one-third the way up and rinsed it repeatedly with the hose from the backyard. Swirling it with my hand and rinsing until it looked pretty clear. I used a plastic cup and slowly lowered it to the bottom and slooowly poured it into the middle. I have a sand smoothing tool (remember my scaping gift from wife) that I used to spread it around. There was no cloudliness.

As far as the scape. I was going to wait longer before posting the pic to allow the stems to grow in a little fuller. LF is correct the right side is alittle bigger than the left (hard to tell from this pic), also the green extends on the right becuase of that big riccia covered rock extending over the middle. I also tried to add more depth by having rock toward the front on the left and rock toward the back on the right. As pointed out by cup-of-noodles it is a little barron on the sides, but the real focus is the chasm and I like to keep things simple with fewer species. It's easier to see the focal point that way. Right now this is actually a very easy setup to maintain. A few stems, the stargrass has been reduced to one small cluster to the right back of the void.

The two issues with the tank that LF did bring up are one the wood. Everything in the tank other than some new rocks, crypt and a lotus were all in my previous arrangement, but I am considering branchier wood for the middle that would overhang the chasm below. I was going to acquire some before posting the pic, but what the hell.

The other is the beachfront. Do I make it all green by covering the eco with glosso, hc or do I swap out the eco for more sand. I'm sure I'll try it both ways before I'm done?

I guess I have alot to ponder over turkey today

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Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 15:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I guess I have alot to ponder over turkey today
- don't we all?

Anyway, that's what keeps it interesting. I am very glad you did not wait to show us a picture until all is said and done. Viewing a tank in progress is very exciting, at least for me.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 17:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Can't say much 'cos I'm in the middle of moving house

But it's a stunning tank. Much more life and interest then the old "still life". Great job, really nice vision. Much more depth in this one. You've come a looooonnnnggggg way, my friend. AGA entry ?

Slight niglle the big piece of wood may be a bit too square. But that's a minor thing. Could be easily swapped if you found more interesting pieces later.

Can't see the crypts so can't id. Close ups??

Sorry got to get back to packing.

And trying to figure our how to move my tanks. Only going half a mile down the road but it may as well be across the world it's so chaotic.




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Post InfoPosted 24-Nov-2006 14:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
DeletedPosted 24-Nov-2006 14:24
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for the comments Bensaf, especially during your move. I think my wife and I have moved 7 times since we were married so I know how stressful that could be. Although in all the time I never had tanks to move as well.

As I was placing the rocks, I could hear your words about depth, depth. I guess having a chasm running from front to back doesn't hurt in that department. Yeah I'll be swapping out some rocks and most definitely the wood especially the one on the left. As I mentioned the wood and many of the rocks are from the other setup. I'll probably be placing a Manzanita wood order. I'm thinking branchy pieces. I'm gonna try and post some more pics to help ID the crypt, etc. soon.

Does your move mean we get to see another setup of your 60g.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 24-Nov-2006 16:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A couple of shots (not the greatest) of the lotus and crypt additons. I'm sure there common varieties, but I'm not really up on my these plants.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 04:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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and the lotus:





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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 04:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I'd say that's either red or bronze wendtii, and red tiger lotus. Nice little splash of color



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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 05:01Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think Bensaf once identified this crypt for me, so in his own words (to be found on page 101 in my log):
I believe the first one to be Lutea.They get quite big about 8ins.

Albeit the review of the picture in my log on page 100 makes it seem different, by now the leaf coloration and shape looks just like in your picture.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 12:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the IDs. The red tiger lotus reminds me of a banana plant. It's not even planted, just sandwiched between two rocks.

Yes the Crypt does look like yours LF. Do the original leaves usually survive? There is actually another one on the rightside, but it is smaller and still hidden.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 14:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Do the original leaves usually survive?
All I know is that mine took forever to settle and in the process most, if not all, original leaves desintigrated. But that may well be the "special" conditions in my tank at that time, where one algae outbreak followed another and Excel treatments (which I think have an influence on crypts) were the norm.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 15:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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First of all, I just want to congratulate myself on caling this a few weeks ago. Thank you, thank you


Oh yeah, and tetra, that looks pretty wonderful. Very Senske like, I love it. Nice colors, nice depth. Well done!

P.S. ditto LF's comments about boredom Although even Ammano says that a tanks lifespan can be no more than a year, and that an overhaul may be necessary that often.


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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 16:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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First of all, I just want to congratulate myself on caling this a few weeks ago. Thank you, thank you

Next time your going to "call it" can you draw me a schematic. It would make it alot easier

Thanks for the comments. I guess you could refer to me as the other Jeff

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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 16:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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even Ammano says that a tanks lifespan can be no more than a year
One full year? I cannot wait that long

"The Other Jeff" - does that mean that from now on I can order my ADA stuff directly from you?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Nov-2006 13:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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tetratech

As everyone says, a stunning re-do. Very clever to, it looks like it should be easy to look after too. Not many of those fast growing stems. Is it easy to look after?

Also, I know you have told me before, but I can't remember if it was in my log or yours. What are the dimensions of your tank. How is the new 4ft light going?

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 27-Nov-2006 23:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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The Other Jeff" - does that mean that from now on I can order my ADA stuff directly from you

Yes you can. I'll take a slight markup to put the "other Jeff" stamp of approval on it.

Also, I know you have told me before, but I can't remember if it was in my log or yours. What are the dimensions of your tank. How is the new 4ft light going?

My tank is a 48"x 18" x 22", although the 18" is misleading because it's only 18" at the widest part of the bow. The sides of my tank only measure a slim 12.5".

I haven't seen much difference with the new light in terms of growth of the stems. Biggest difference is the consistency of the light into the corners of the tank. Here's a full tank shot of the stems filling out and some overgrown blya on the right side.

Attached Image:


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 04:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Focusing on the two big blyxa mounds on the right. The one nearest the valley is a hugh rock covered with the stuff, but the other one more to the right foreground is actually a small rock and the blyxa has grown very full trying to float. The line on this pic shows you were the hairnet covered rock actually is. All the other growth is ricca on ricca with the fullness created by the riccia's own buoyancy.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 04:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Are we talking about riccia or blyxa in the last two posts?.....cause I'm getting confused.

Anyhow, looks great. There's something about the newest picture that is 10X better than the first one you showed us of your new setup. It seems less grainy or more focused or something. I can't put my finger on it.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 06:01Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Are we talking about riccia or blyxa in the last two posts?
I am sure we are talking Riccia, cut the old man some slack .

Nice shots tetratech You know, if you get a chance then do me a favor and document a Riccia trimming for me. I am very courious about the individual steps (with photos, please).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 11:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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am sure we are talking Riccia, cut the old man some slack


Yes, LF is right we are talking riccia. Sorry Matty, I had a senior moment. Wait to you have 3 kids, fish tanks and a hairy dog.

LF, yes I'l try to document the trimming of the riccia. Actually that rock in question I'll probably trim over the next couple of days.


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 13:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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yes I'l try to document the trimming of the riccia.
Excellent, I am really looking forward to it. I am most certain that it will help quite a few people in learning how to trim this plant (or to discuss what they would do differently and why).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 14:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yes seeing how you trim this stuff will be highly useful to me as I am getting ready to trim some myself.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 15:00Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech

Thanks for the full shot & tank info.

I'd like to see the riccia trimming. I remain ever hopeful that one day I will be doing this too.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 00:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra,

Do you have any problems letting the Riccia get that thick on top of itself? I know mosses will start to die if they are overly thick, does riccia have the same problem?

Also, looking around in my tank I have found that some riccia has been floating around and getting caught in my Java moss. It is actualy growing well there.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 15:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Do you have any problems letting the Riccia get that thick on top of itself? I know mosses will start to die if they are overly thick, does riccia have the same problem?

Believe it or not if I cut off the top half of that big mound it's just as green in the middle as it is on top. I do notice some die-off closer to the rock itself. I think it also depends on where the riccia is in the tank. If it's somewhat shaded there might be more die-off higher up.

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Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 16:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don't think I've commented on this tank in a while... let's just say that I was stunned into silence I really like this new setup, it looks simply gorgeous, but with these sand strips I always wonder how it'll look in the long term.

One of my worries for example would be how to keep it clean? when I suck away debris and dirt during water changes I often end up getting quite a bit of the substrate along, doesn't the same happen with the sand? Or do you just add fresh sand after each change? You did mention the kuhlis mixing up some of the substrate with the sand, are those the only fish you have that do such things? Adding cories would be a complete no-no then, correct?

I'm still thinking about a makeover of my own tank, and something like this would look greta, but honestly, I'm afraid to do such things

Final question: How much time a week do you spend maintaining this? (I'm curious whether I could keep to a way of living like that )
Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 17:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the info tetra. I will let mine grow out a little bit longer before I give it a trim. It might be almost an inch tall off the rock right now. Riccia grows much faster than I thought it would. I should have known better if I paid more attention to your log. Look how much riccia you have after having just enough for a single rock.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 17:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thank you for those nice comments Dr. Now if I could stun my wife into silence that would really be something.

One of my worries for example would be how to keep it clean? when I suck away debris and dirt during water changes I often end up getting quite a bit of the substrate along, doesn't the same happen with the sand? Or do you just add fresh sand after each change? You did mention the kuhlis mixing up some of the substrate with the sand, are those the only fish you have that do such things? Adding cories would be a complete no-no then, correct?

As with other fine-grained substrate some will come out during gravel washing/water changes, but not really that much. If you squeeze the tubing leading to the gravel washer when the sand is the wide part of the washer, most of the sand will fall back into the tank. The sand is also not the finest grain, it's pool filter sand and it's really in the middle of fine sand and regular gravel in terms of grain size.

The more bottom feeders the more issues one would probably have, but it also depends on how well you separate the two substrates. If rocks are choosen that fit nicely together that hold back the other substrate the kulis or other bottom feeders would have a harder time mixing the substrates. In my case it's not the greatest because I didn't start from scratch some of the rocks weren't even moved from the previous setup so I'll probably have to remove some sand and yes add some fresh sand. Good thing about pool filter sand is the cost. It's about $5 to $7 for 50lbs. I have a 50lb bag in my gargage.

In terms of maintenance time. I don't think it will be that bad, since much of the real estate is hardscape and wisteria. The wisteria is really a very easy plant to trim. It takes very well to just cutting the tops anytime and anywhere. Other than that there are only a few bunches of stems and of course the riccia. The riccia is good for at least a month before I have to trim or completely remove the hairnet covered rock and replace the hairnet with fresh riccia (about 3 minutes per rock.)

I think bensaf once used the term "10-Minute Tidy" this is pretty much what I do. When I pass the tank and something doesn't look right I tidy it up. I'm fortunate that I work from home alot and am able to do this on a regular basis. I once discussed this before with LF and other members. It makes things easy to maintain. I still do my weekly water change and trim whatever is necessary.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Nov-2006 01:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
slickrb
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Wow. I really love the new look. I've been to Jeff's gallery here in Houston and your tank could be picked up and dropped off in the show room and people would be none the wiser.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Nov-2006 05:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Now if I could stun my wife into silence that would really be something


Well said, tetratech.

Say, don't you think that you could get some small rocks and over time start to separate the substrate and the sand anyway? Sounds doable to me and for sure would help you in the long run.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Dec-2006 15:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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tetra,

meant to ask you, is that still Eco?


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Post InfoPosted 05-Dec-2006 16:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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meant to ask you, is that still Eco?

Yep still eco. I'm not that ambitious. What made you ask?

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Post InfoPosted 05-Dec-2006 17:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Something about the texture just looks different, looks more consistent maybe, fuller - whereas Eco is a mixture of fine grains and larger grains. I thought maybe you had switched to AS.


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Post InfoPosted 05-Dec-2006 17:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Something about the texture just looks different, looks more consistent maybe, fuller - whereas Eco is a mixture of fine grains and larger grains. I thought maybe you had switched to AS.

You have a good eye. The replacement bags that I received from Carib-sea after I realized I had corrupted eco where much smaller grain overall. In fact much of the eco is the same grain size as the pool filter sand. I have heard other aquarist state the same thing about the grain size.
I gave the front area a good gravel during the makeover and much of the smaller grain size is on top.


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Post InfoPosted 05-Dec-2006 17:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Really strange, my Aromatica has stalled. Looks healthy it just doesn't seem to be growing. I've already upped all dosing to make sure nothings bottomed out.

My only thought (it's a stretch) could the change in lights be having some affect a few months later or has my eco bottomed out an the Aromatica likes to feed from the roots.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 18:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I wish I could help you tetratech, but me being the master of the 100% static tenellus does not give me any credentials here

I can't think of anything in particular either, did you up the micros as well?

I don't know how this plant feeds either. Also, I don't know if the plant may go through a stagnant phase like a few other plants do, Apons come to mind here.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 18:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Interesting point about the eco being "used up" - is it normally a heavy root feeder? Have you pulled it up before and looked at it?


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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 19:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I can't think of anything in particular either, did you up the micros as well?


Thanks LF. Yeah I've increased micros as well. This happened to me a long time ago with rotala and stargrass when I used to chop the tops all the time. I wasn't sure if that was due to a no3 shortage or chopping the tops one too many times.

Other thoughts:
Can only move stems so many times, before plant stalls.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 19:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Missed your post Nowher, Yes the Aromatica does put down a pretty heavy root system.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 19:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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How long have you had this plant - and how many times have you trimmed and replanted tops? You may be right, it may just be that the vitality has run out of these stems, and they may need to be replaced.


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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 19:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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How long have you had this plant - and how many times have you trimmed and replanted tops? You may be right, it may just be that the vitality has run out of these stems, and they may need to be replaced.
All my aromatica are from my original 1 stem order from about a year ago. My gut tells me you are right. I think you can only get so much mileage from a stem. I don't see this discussed much.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 19:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Occasionally, the plant suddenly stops growing but after a while adventitious shoots will normally develop and the plant resumes growth.


I found the above quote on a website selling Eusteralis stellata, which is what my plant was sold as, but it was determined to be Aromatica by the majority of experienced planted tank gurus.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 21:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Occasionally, the plant suddenly stops growing ...
Hey, that would be pretty close to my last guess

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 22:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Hey, that would be pretty close to my last guess


Your right you did say that. What do you think of Nowher's comment that a stem might run out of vitality.

I could put the eco question to bed by buying some root tabs and putting them under the aromatica. It's definitely not a deficiency in ferts, because I've upped everything.

Some plants just might grow fuller with very good substrate (Bensaf not around anyway to scold me)
But take alook at Nowher' Blyxa. It's very full in that ADA Magic Mud, but mine doesn''t grow nearly as full even with 3.6wpg, heavy co2 and ferts.


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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 22:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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But take alook at Nowher' Blyxa
It is made out of plastic, that's why it looks sooooo good

What do you think of Nowher's comment that a stem might run out of vitality
Hm, I know too little about biology to make a solid statement, but I doubt it. It is not like fish were inbreeding may lead to infertility or othere reasons why no new fry may survive. What would be the reason for plants to stop growing? Do they think "yeah, almost at the light" and then you come with the scissors and they say "darn, short again, I have enough of this"?

I think as long as there is everything a plants needs to grow it will do so, and if this requires a "rest" period, then it will continue after that.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 09-Dec-2006 13:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
This question has been on my mind quite a bit too. A good hand full of my plants just are not growing like they used to. I can't quite figure out why. Granted I haven't been really great about water changes or ferts latly but I would still think that the plants would do something. None look like they are in bad shape but seem to be stalled in growing.

Substrate might have a bit to do with this. How old is yours right now? Mine (flourite)is at about 1.25 years. It wouldn't hurt to try some root tabs just to see what happens.

I also wonder if the plants just need a break from growth every once in a while. We do seem to push the growth factor with our high light, CO2, and heavy ferts. Maybe they just can't take it forever. Now if this were the case why would all my plants stall at the same time?

BTW ~ come see ~ http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28915.15.htm?357#

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Post InfoPosted 11-Dec-2006 15:23Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Regarding the "vitality of stems" thing, i know I've read Amano talking about it. Actually, I'm pretty sure he writes something to that effect in th