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  L# 72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
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Subscribe72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
FRANK
 
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Hi Guys,
I did some initial research on the UV vs Fe effects.
This is a series from "The Krib" about it:
[link=http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/comments.html#m15]http://www.cam.org/~tomlins/comments.html#m15" style="COLOR: #FF00FF[/link]

There are others too, but the chemistry gets kinda deep.
The short is that it looks like there are no worries.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

You say that you overdose Excel, why? Have you tried the regular dosage for at least one week first? It worked very well on my tank. Back to your question picture - maybe it was an illusion on my end, but I thought I see some red algae on the rock to the left. Once it turns red it is dying and all you have to do is to keep up the regular dosage for a little longer.

About the Anubias: Bensaf is right ( what else is new? ), they don't need to be tied to something. Actually, all of mine were shipped to me with small regular roots already expaning from the rhizome (sp?). I buried all of mine in the substrate making sure the rhizome is above the ground. These roots become rather big after a short while and the plant will be savely anchored.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
As far as the excel treatment. I haven't really dosed the regular amount. I assume you mean the 5ml for every 50g.
How many doses did you do to see any change? I dosed 35ml yesterday and was going to do this for a week every other day. No, that wasn't bba turning red, just some red color on the petrified wood. By the way when the bba turns red and dies do you jus leave it in the tank or do you remove it some how.

In terms of anubias, I didn't know you buried those in the substrate. I guess if the rhizome is hidden from view it would look alright. Thanks for the info.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

I guess I didn&#8217;t dose the normal dosage either, but I had a different regiment.

I started off with the first dosage (means there is no Excel prior in the tank) at the suggested amount, being 5ml for every 10G (suggested after 40+ % of water change), in my case I added 50ml, for you it would be the 35ml that you added.

Then I subsequently dosed every day 20ml, so maybe 15ml for your tank size, for one week. Changes occurred around day 4.

I think dosing every other day may not be as effective, on one day you attack the algae and the next day you give it a break &#8211; supposedly Excel stays active for only 24h (no evidence to back this up though).

About the Anubias: I will take a picture on the weekend and show you how it looks in my 29G where the roots are clearly visible from the front of the tank. I kind of like the look of the roots as it reminds me of a Mangrove tree.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Anubias roots, when planted under the gravel, will grow thick, white and quite long, not unlike large crypt or sword roots. When we normally see them, the roots are green and on the thin side; not so when buried. During my replant I noticed one set of A. barteri roots that were roughly a foot long. Just be extremely careful when burying the roots as to not bury the rhizome (said often enough, I'm sure, but nevertheless...) It will rot and the plant will die at the slightest bit of being underground, and with the other ground cover you have you probably won't even know it.


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,
Thanks. Did the bba in your tank every come back and when it turned red did you end up cleaning it off hardscape and cutting leaves or did it pretty much just distegrate into the water column?

Thanks LF and Nowher for the anubias info.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Before I treated the tank for the first time I had serious black rims on the Anubias and various other plants and hardscape. Never came back, except some small bushles (I actually assume of a different algae type) on my rock. This one has been eliminated during the last (second) sweep with Excel. I never physically removed any remains. As far as I can tell it turned red, then gray, and then disintigrated.

Ingo



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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O.K. Thanks LF.

I guess my fear with over dosing the excel too much is the E. Stella which looks like it has "I'm melting" written all over it and the tolerance of the Yamato Shrimp which now total 5 in my tank.




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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Here's a pick of some of the bba on the recently named "Krusty Peak"

A greenish-grey in color. It actually doesn't look bad, if it could be contained, but it's definitely spreading too much.

tetratech attached this image:


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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Are the shrimp eating it at all? Is there anything that finds it tasty? Would otos be of any service? I have many questions, no answers. I don't remember if you tried otos in that tank at all. Mine do ok but I'm still scraping all kinds of algae off the glass. My vacation and the direct sunlight coming in for an hour a day led to all kinds of algae growing everywhere that it wasn't growing before. No GW water though knock on wood.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I have a 9 otos in the tank and at times I have seen them clean a path of bba on the dw, but I they can't keep up with it. I also do think the bba is their preferable type of algae and there is some spot algae (normal) on the glass for them. I have 5 shrimp and I can't say I've seen them bother with the BBA. They stay on that piece of dw all day and nibble on that attached piece of java moss.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Ottos usually won't touch BBA. They prefer diatoms and the soft stuff. But then again a lot of fish will peck at any algae if it's young and fresh.

I agree that algae on rocks and wood look better with a coating of algae. As long as it's the right type, one of the more "attractive" algaes. The soft green ones are ok. Unfortunately ones like BBA and staghorn are just plain ugly.

Was the Excel already added when you took that pic ? I usually find that grey bba is very unhealthy bba on it's way out.


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Was the Excel already added when you took that pic ? I usually find that grey bba is very unhealthy bba on it's way out.
No, the bba I have has been grey from the getgo. Definitely accmulating more in the path of the spray bar. As I mentioned other apc members have experienced same.

Co2 I know is high ph 6.2 to 6.4 and kh 3. I could start guessing buy I'm I think I'm done playing perfect scientist. Other than some nice healthy spot algae there is no other algae in the tank, leaves are very clean, full.

Bensaf, I would love to send you some of my stargrass, it is growing madly. (Starting to sound like LF). I'm glad I regrouped my rotala and stargrass from little pieces, much more satisfying than buying more. Especially the stargrass I had replanted 1 to 2 inch pieces, by tomorrow morning it will be the tallest plant in my tank.

Last edited by tetratech at 06-Jan-2006 20:49

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LITTLE_FISH
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Starting to sound like LF


And what would be wrong with that

Slight shift of topic,

As promised, here are 2 pictures of an Anubias Nana planted in the gravel.

Full Shot:

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LITTLE_FISH
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Close-Up of the roots. You can see the rhizome is way above the substrate (middle of picture):

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the pics and info on the Anubias. I think they definitely have their place. One reason I guess I'm not a big fan is something I was thinking about and something Bensaf said in the other thread "they are plastic plants that grow". That said, I guess they do offer good contrast with "real" looking plants

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Post Spawn

Well I don't think any fry survived in the tank unless they are hiding in the elaborate network of wisteria. with the 5 pencils and 9 cardinals I don't think they had much of a chance. The few I put in the 5g did not survive and never really got any bigger, so I think it was a nutrient issue without BBS or other adequate food. It was kinda a hapazard setup next time I might go all out trying to rear them. Here's a post spawn pick of the ram still showing exceptional color. This pic is taking with auto white balance and is natural. Whoever said bolivians don't have color they should tell it to this girl. The color and spawning hopefully is a testament to good quality water.

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Last edited by tetratech at 07-Jan-2006 10:14
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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
dvmchrissy
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female usa us-indiana
Your Rams are just absolutely gorgeous! IT makes me even more excited and anxious to get my tank up and running so that I can get my Rams!!! I hope mine are even close to as pretty as yours are! I hope you have better luck next time with the spawning. Like I said before I would love to work out a deal with you on a pair of them. I am sure I can speak for everyone when we say we are rooting for you and your Rams! Keep up that great tank!


Christina
Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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dvmchrissy,
Thanks for the ram and tank commments.

As I predicted the Stargrass now is competing with the Rotala as being the tallest plant in the tank. You might notice from this pic I had to cut back the diandra for a couple of reasons. One it was growing into the stellata wideleaf and also at closer examination some of the stem bottoms were getting black. It's amazing how healthy a stem plant could look and then two-thirds down the stem the has a completely dead spot - solid black. That show's I guess that the roots on those plants are there for anchoring only and most nutrient is thru the leaves. The diandra remembers me of a cross between cabomba an rotala r. The leaves just fall into alot of pieces like cabomba. When I saw the black stems it reminded me of when I first started and didn't know anything, but this plant got black stems with alot of space between them and I think enough light 2.7wpg cf. I get the feeling this plant needs really heavy light. Maybe I should give some to LF.

Anyway here's a pic showing the stargrass and cut back diandra.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Here's the pic:



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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She is absoulutely gorgeous!

If the rams are at all like the kribs, the female will be that colourful each time they come into breeding mode. Mine is all by herself in a tank with barbs and otos, a SAE and 1 lonely danio and she colours up more intensely about every three weeks. Then she chases the barbs around and gets testy with the other fish. She hasn't hurt them, but she lets them know when to stay away.

When I'm ready for a bolivian ram I will be trying for a female. The male kribs aren't much to look at and I'm thinking it may be the same with rams.

Last edited by luvmykrib at 07-Jan-2006 15:01

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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luvmykrib &#8211; Male Rams are at least as gorgeous as their female counterparts .

tetratech &#8211; I know you don&#8217;t mind a little criticism, right? In my opinion there is one thing missing from your tank: flow. It appears to me as if your tank has 3 (or even 4) distinct sections, left wisteria, right wisteria, mound group, and maybe the blyxa group. If that is intentional then you achieved your goal there. I personally like it better when groups flow into each other and it seems like you are working towards that with the Diandra flowing into the Wisteria on the right. Just my thoughts.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF, I always want your comments, thoughts, etc.
Acutally if you look at page 32 in one of my full tank shots after I added the Blyxa to the middle, I commented:

I'm not sure I love it, I need to fine-tune and blend it more with the surrounding flora.
So right now I'm getting a feel for the growth, The stargrass also needs to be moved in to get more cascading action going, but that plant I'm afraid to touch.

This is a pic when I compared now and when I had some of the wisteria still in the middle area in front of the rock. It obviously blends both sides together. Another thing also is the wistera on the right toward the middle is almost to the front of the glass (remember it crawls) and needs to be cut back to lessen it's impact. It should really support the center and not take over, but you know that wisteria.



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Last edited by tetratech at 08-Jan-2006 06:35
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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Makes perfect sense

You are right, the Wisteria in the middle made it blend together.

Do you like this one?

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Actually I did think about doing just what you illustrated, but I felt that wisteria was too powerful with it's bigger different leaves and would overwhelm the setup. If it was a similiar ground cover it would work well, so I'll be shifting, blending, trimming etc. You might also have noticed that I have some dwarf hairgrass growing in 2 different locations, although I kinda like the constrast with the black eco I want to see if it comes in better the second time around.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Some random pics of the tank. First full tank after water change. Move some of the wisteria on the left to overlap some of the blyxa. I also moved one blyxa in the right group further right to blend. I might decide to cover some of those rocks in front of the blyxa with riccia to bring more green into the area.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Here's pic 98.7 too big as usual.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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male usa
Some rotala.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Estellata



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Estellata, hoping this starts to color up.



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tetratech
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Blyxa. You know it's false pearling, when your dying bba pearls as well.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Twin peak. The middle dw is the only place so far that javamoss as taken to.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

I think I am falling in love with the Blyxa. If it doesn't get too tall then it would be much prettier than Dwarf Sags or Chain Swords. I will watch yours grow and spread and then maybe adopt this plant in my tank as well, if you don't mind.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Full room shot from my kitchen sink. LF, I must have missed something, who is Dan?

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Close up of my favorite occupant.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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This is a fun shot. Looks more like outspace than a fishtank in my kitchen. See the shooting stars.




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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I love the Ram shot, great picture that shows its beautiful color

The only Dan I know is a member of this site, why? Did I mention a Dan somewhere here? Dan at FP has his own log with 4 65G tanks on a rack.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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The Blyxa is a very nice plant. Seems like it works best when used at the base of structure, similar to tenellus... the question is how big it grows etc. Another planted tank fad... UVs, glass diffusers, Blyxa... what next?


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Ingo,

The Bylxa won't get very tall. It'll get wider by producing side shoots. It's a very easy plant to control unlike the chain sword which can get out of hand.

Blyxa Aubertii is another one that would work well in your tank. Unlike the Japonica it's more of a true rossette type plant. Get's a lot taller and very wide.Similar texture and shape leaves to the Japonica, but a lot longer and softer.In your light it would turn red on the top portion quite easily so may give a splash of color while still retaining that grassy look.

I find it grows a lot faster then the Japonica.

Tetra,
If I may be a little critical.....

I do like your tank a lot. It's well laid out and the plants look full of health. But it also leaves me a little cold. It seems a tad sterile. There's no small details. I don't feel any mystery and because of that I don't feel any desire to investigate and look further. It's like "wow what a pretty tank"....and they I move on.

The Blyxa I think accentuates this problem. A pretty plant well laid out, put in the right place and then...nothing. There's a few rocks there but they're just sitting there doing nothing, they don't distract but they don't add anything either.

This may partly be due to my own bias. You know while we both appreciate any well done tank we also have quite different personal tastes. I certainly go for a more crowded look.

The most important and painstaking parts of my own tanks are the minor details, the ones that unfortunately don't come across in photographs. The greatest personal satisfaction is when I see somebody looking at my tanks and they crouch down, try to look thru the sides or they are almost breaking their necks trying to get a closer look at some detail because they think there might be something else there, even if most of the time there isn't.

Generally the placement of stem plants comes rather easy to me , more thought goes into the choice of species. But I have spent hours trying to get small details of where wood, rock and plants meet, so as the whole becomes greater then the sum of the parts.

All the good tanks have this I think. There's always sections of the tanks you can't see, at least not at first. There may not actually be anything there but you want to look to find out for yourself.

The thing with your tank, at least at the moment, it may change as plants fill out, is that I can already see everything.

Slight edit. You posted a new photo while I was typing this. The full tank shot showing part of the room. I have to say that it looks more impressive in that shot. Still think some detail around the Blyxa would be a big bonus.

Last edited by bensaf at 08-Jan-2006 21:06


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Bensaf,
I could definitely appreciate your comments. I think I'm always torn between keeping my tank simple (less species) and letting this simple but dramatic layout show off a large school of fish (which I don't have yet) or adding more flora and giving it more complexitity. As you of course know some of the most striking tanks are one's that have only a few species of plants, not to say that certain elements aren't located strategically to add interest.

At this point I would like to see how things grow in a bit. Although I'm very happy with the Blyxa it has reduced the flow (as LF pointed out) and I need to make the necessary adjustments for it to work completely.

Any comments are always appreciated.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Jan-2006 11:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Well maybe I should clarify a little. Certainly I wouldn't suggest you go mad and add a lot more species. Something I've certainly been guilty of in the past is too many species with none making a impact. I'm trying to control that urge these days.

Certainly I think you've handled the stem plants very well and certainly wouldn't add more species. Let what's there fill out. You may even decide to drop one of the species later and it would still be impressive.

I''m thinking more of the smaller details. The mid/foreground areas. Accents for rocks etc. You really wouldn't need too many more species 2 or 3 would do it.

Certainly I wouldn't suggest you go down the road that my collectoritis forced me. These days I'm removing more species then I'm adding.

I think one phrase you made probably highlights the differnce in our attitudes. You want a tank with a striking background for a school of colorful fish. I lean the other way. Cardinals, Neons et al, while beautiful fish don't do it for me. They just seem to sit there. I prefer the fish to be more interactive with the environment. Gouramies gracefull winding thru plants, Bettas prowling through a mass of Anubias leaves, Pencil fish pecking and poking thru everything, and Ottos being Ottos. I got into the habit of building 'scapes to encourage that kind of behaviour. This works against me sometimes. Things I should keep simpler I end up overdoing.

You can see this trait even now. Remember when I re-did the tank? While the overall layout is the same it was much simpler and cleaner at the start, you can see in the last pics everything has got denser, more complex and darker (even though I now have more light over the tank). Guess I just can't help myself.



Last edited by bensaf at 09-Jan-2006 00:41


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

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I think one phrase you made probably highlights the differnce in our attitudes. You want a tank with a striking background for a school of colorful fish. I lean the other way. Cardinals, Neons et al, while beautiful fish don't do it for me. They just seem to sit there. I prefer the fish to be more interactive with the environment.
That's a very good distinction. I'm always hesitant to add more fish because I feel it would eventually clutter the big school I plan on having one day. Although in a tank of my size I do want and have some fish that use the layout like pencils, rams, otos. I also currently have 5 yamato shrimp. As I said I need more tanks, I'm always torn between a tank with maybe two or three plant species and a large school or one with more variety buy not Dutch like. I really need 3 medium size tanks, this way you'll always have one show tank and the others you could play with.



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I've definitely observed my otos munching on the bba. I don't have alot of algae on the menu, so maybe they are desperate. I've also caught the yamato shrimp pictured here making a snack of it.




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That is a beautiful shot tetratech

I guess all you need is about 100 more shrimp (). At my LFS they go for $5 each.

Ingo

I really like this picture


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Thanks for the pic comments LF.


I guess all you need is about 100 more shrimp
Yeah exactly, that' what Amano always says, so simple, $500 later. I don't think the 5 I have will put a dent in it. BTW I got all my yamato shrimp at aquarium adventure. They were $3.99 each minus 25% for being a AA member which was free since I signed up when the store opened. Wow $5 is high, I thought $3.99 was high, I wonder what Bensaf pays. The cherry shrimps were $5.99 but were not in stock.



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get other shrimp apart from yamato's. there are other algae eating shrimp that will eat a different variaty of algae than yamatos and also reproduce in fw.

Just avoid az gardens for shrimp.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 09-Jan-2006 13:36

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Just avoid az gardens for shrimp.


Any experience you'd like to share?


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http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/reviews/showproduct.php/product/71/sort/2/cat/4/page/1

I believe everything is covered there. The shrimp shipped were miniscule , and as stated hot very good survival rate.

Last edited by Megil Tel'Zeke at 09-Jan-2006 13:47

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Megil,
Sorry to hear that. What kind of shrimp did you order and how many? Did any survive to reproduce?

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Hey, i was wondering what kind of a camera you are taking the photos with. Because you were asking about photo exposres before I thought I might add a little more info. I believe that your camera is automatically over exposing your photos. [I see the etherial quality of many of your plants as evidence of this, though perhapse you like to use this as an awe inspiring effect? ] It depends on the kind of camera but you may be able to ajust its settings. What it does whne you take pictures, all of which seem to be without a flash which is great imo, is that it tries to make the net exposure for the immage what is called middle grey, as far as light inensity goes. The camera does not understand that your background is supposed to be black or that snow for example is supposed to be white. Because of this it over exposes the aquarium pictures with large ammounts of black in them. The 'false pearling' picture has good detail overall, because of the normal balance of light and dark. THe one below it shows heavenly wisteria. Anyway depending on the camera you might be able to force better exposures, but it depends.

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Chaos,
Thanks for any advice, I am certainly not that photo savvy.
My camera is a Canon S2 IS, not an SLR, but from what I understand a pretty good camera, some shots I believe are limited because of the iso setting only going up to 400 and insufficient light. Most of the shots you see in my thread are taking with the manual seeings using shutterspeed as a priority.

The settings are using 1/10 - 1/20, f 2.7 to 4.5, with 2/3 underexposure. I do have a black background and black substrate so I do like the way it makes the plants pop out.

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Gee,

am I glad that I am reading this thread.

I was going to order my shrimp from there, I guess I will have to find another source then.

Thanks Megil also from me, I am sure you saved me quite some money (and hair).

Ingo


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LF,
If I spend $70 for shrimp shipping my tank really would be over my head like in my avatar.

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Here's another shrimp shot. It's interesting to watch them. When a fish swims close the shrimp put up their arms in an effort to defend themselves.



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NowherMan6
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I was going to order my shrimp from there, I guess I will have to find another source then.


Hehe, I was thinking the same thing. Maybe shrimp are just poor shippers? Never had them shipped before, but it seems the death rate shouldn't be as high as megil says it was. Will have to do some more searching for online retailers, I think I saw some place online called Frank's something-or-other, little pricy though... and there's always aquabid.


Chaos,

All true enough, but taking a pic of a tank with a black background/ substrate and high lighting is like taking a pic of a guy in a big black coat out in a snow covered field on a bright sunny day - if you expose to capture either extreme perfectly, the other is going to look crummy. if you want straight from the camera .jpegs, in the case of planted tanks I think it's best to underexpose only slightly - the point is not to see the background at its best, but to capture the detail in the plants. For straight out of the camrea .jpegs I think the exposure is pretty good. Ideally I think one would underexpose a little - no more than a full stop - and then play with shadows/ highlights in Photoshop... or if shooting .raw files it would be that much more effective.

Sorry, that was off topic. I'll control the photo-nerdness from now on


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[link=http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm]http://www.franksaquarium.com/freshwatershrimpfarm.htm" style="COLOR: #001700[/link]

Heard good things about him. probably worth a shot. When ig et around to restocking the 20G again i'm ordering from him what i can't find locally. (going to try getting some from deb first)

but to answer the earlier question none lived long enough to reproduce. shrimp aren't that delicate of shippers AZ gardens just has shotty quality. well I do have some rudolphs still, they are about all i ahve left from the purchase.

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Day 1 - The excitment

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Day 12 - Innocent growth

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Day 38 - I had at all (in my naive mind anyway)



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Day 65 - Innocence Lost



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Day 77 - The comeback

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NowherMan6
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Hmm... an obvious lack of GW pictures here, tetra... youre not telling the whole story here!


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Day 97 - Happy New Year!

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3 Days ago - Nowher, not now, I'm on a roll!



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Today - reworked blended foreground to appease my critics



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Are we done yet

Nice collection and naming of each set

Ingo


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Yeah I think I got it all out, actually I think I skipped a few pics. Nowher, GW never visible from front, sometimes bad photo skills come in handy.

If you look at the foreground I spread the blyxa further and scattered some wisteria into the middle to help blend. I guess I'll let it grow in and see how it looks. The poor Blyxa has been uprooted and moved like 4 times already.

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tetratech,

Things are looking really nice. I can't wait until I can do some more work on my tank!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Thanks Wingdsc.


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bensaf
 
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The poor Blyxa has been uprooted and moved like 4 times already.


Well don't move it again

It's a relatively delicate plant, it does not take kindly to being moved. It takes quite a while for it to root and establish, every time you move it , it has to start over.

I'd go as far as to say the secret to growing it well is stick it in and never move it.


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Nowher, GW never visible from front, sometimes bad photo skills come in handy.



Not bad photo skills, I just dont think you had GW nearly as bad as mine, probably why it took your UV less time to make things sparkling clear for you. Anyway, I like the new look of the tank, even though Hendrix Rock is no more.


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It certainly does flow better, although I still find the left side Wisteria group to be isolated.

Also, from the pciture, one cannot easily see the driftwood stick on the left. I am sure that when looking at the tank directly it creates a flow towards that left side.

Ingo


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Speaking of wisteria groups, holy cow! Look at the right side of that first pic - empty!


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Speaking of wisteria groups, holy cow! Look at the right side of that first pic - empty!

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tetratech
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Edit error on previous post. Anyway your referring to the day on pic right Nowher, yeah, the wisteria was left over clippings from my old 46 gallon and there wasn't much of it when I first started.



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NowherMan6
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It's just wild to look back on it and see it so lacking in wisteria because wisteria has become such a ounced and dare I say, defining element in your tank.


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Oh it's got depth baby!

For those of you who mentioned my tank lacks depth (you know who you are) I wanted to show this side shot. The grouping of blyxa is on three different levels with rocks pushing up the substrate aroundthe big rock. You could also see the big rocks are staggered as well at different depths. It's hard to see this from the front.





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tetratech,

Yeah, I see the depth, from the side of the tank

I never doubted it is there, but sometimes it is hard to see it from the front of the tank (aka standard photo position). I am sure that it will look deeper once the area in front of the main group has filled in some more.

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Thanks Lf,

Question? I'm on day 5 of the excel treatment I've been doing about 20ml everyday, I haven't seen the bba turn red, but looks like it has stopped spreading. I think you said your's turned red around day 4.

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Yup tetratech,

That is what it did for me, and proportionally on a smaller dosage than yours.

Maybe it doesn't work equally on all tanks or on your particular type of algae.

I would say keep it up for at least 3 more days.

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Actually I missed a dose while I was out of town.

See my other thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/forums/General%20Freshwater/67955.html?200601111643

Last edited by tetratech at 11-Jan-2006 16:58

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I have seen the other thread,

But I didn't dare to comment in it as one never knows if an entry was your last, once you are on a roll .

Maybe the skipping set it back, let's hope that this is the issue then dosing longer should fix that.

Ingo


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It's just wild to look back on it and see it so lacking in wisteria because wisteria has become such a ounced and dare I say, defining element in your tank.
Yes, you may say that. It just comes in so nice and it's low maintenance.




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bensaf
 
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For those of you who mentioned my tank lacks depth (you know who you are)

*whistles nonchalantly*

Pity most people look at the front of a tank and not at the sides

To be fair though, pictures never do a tank justice. They always look better in person, can't beat the 3 dimensional view. Photo's do tend to flatten the look of a tank, moreso when you use any kind of zoom.

Maybe we were a little harsh.


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Maybe we were a little harsh.
I can take it, keep the honesty coming.

Anyway here's a pic of the E.Stellata Wideleaf. I'm starting to enjoy the constrasting leaves. It hasn't colored up so I'm thinking of upping my FE dosing or maybe my light isn't intense enough to get the color.

Current dosing schedule:

n03 - .5 tsp
po4 - .05 tsp
Flourish - 10 ml
Flourish trace - 5 ml
Flourish excel - 20 ml (currently treating bba)
co2 - slow moving stream of bubbles

Although plants look really healthly I don't get much pearling. Although I don't necessarily associate pearling with plant health I do like to witness pearling at times, so I've changed my co2 diffusion from canister intake to a limewood airstone under my spraybar (too cheap to buy a glass diffusor.) I do see all the tiny bubbles bing wooshed to the plants. I want to see if it increases pearling




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I have a glass difuser setup for a few days so far and I have already noticed some pearling..Not on any of my wisteria tho.
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The Excel will definately reduce pearling. So you may not see much until you're finished with that treatment.

Depends on the plants too. Heavy oxygen producers pearl heavier, faster. Riccia is the classic example, Java Fern while slow growing makes a lot of oxygen and will pearl at the drop of a hat. Wisteria seems to be somewhere in the middle.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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bensaf,

Why does the excel cut back on pearling?

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Don't know. But it's certainly widely reported and it's something I've experienced myself in the past.

Maybe it somehow slows down the plants oxygen output or reduces the amount of oxygen in the water.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Pic update. I believe it's Day 110 (give or take)

The tank has definitely entered a new phase of lushness with the revival of all my stem plants, plus the additional ones. Here's a shot looking through the left size.




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Oops alittle too big,



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Shot of the main group showing contrasting colors and shapes


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Full room shot,



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tetra,

Tank certainly does look great, but looking at how well the stem plants are growing, I can't help but feel that you can take it to the next level by doing something with the right side of the tank, building up more height with stem plants etc. The hardscape is there, it just needs to be filled in.

the wisteria carpet can remain, of course...


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You know what,

For the first time this tank looks to me like a 20G Long. It seems tiny, what happened?

Don&#8217;t misunderstand me, it is very very beautiful and the shot you took makes it look like a piece of art, but the fact that this is a big tank is not coming across.

Maybe it is because of all the small leaved plants, I don&#8217;t know.

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Tank certainly does look great, but looking at how well the stem plants are growing, I can't help but feel that you can take it to the next level by doing something with the right side of the tank, building up more height with stem plants etc. The hardscape is there, it just needs to be filled in.
I could appreciate your comments, but I probably will not do that. I feel keeping the stem plants bunched in a tight group off center gives me my stems, but also allows me to have the drama of open water which will eventually be populated by a big school of something. Again I need more tanks.

For the first time this tank looks to me like a 20G Long
You caught me, I knew I couldn't fool the LF eye for long. It is a 20g, I just couldn't admit it with your big tank.

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No, it&#8217;s not a 20G

I know that the plants cannot be that small when proportioned down to the size of a 20G, except if you would have miniature versions of each in which case I would love to have some of them.

I guess once a load of schooling fish are swimming in the tank and they become visible in the picture then it will be much easier to judge the tank when comparing the size of the fish to the rest of the tank. Yeah, I guess that&#8217;s it, thinking about it more made me realize that even some of Amano&#8217;s tanks would appear small if there wouldn&#8217;t be the 100 Cardinals swimming around.

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That's a very good point about Amano's tanks. Sometimes the only way to get a feel for the size is by seeing a large school of fish. Speaking of Amano did you see this additional link I put in that shows more pics of his big tank in his home. It also is part of a gallery of pics from ADG and Oliver knott that will make you sick.

http://www.pbase.com/plantella/niigata2005amanoshome

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For the first time this tank looks to me like a 20G Long
"Cheeky young pup" Stick this in your 20g.





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I thought this pic was a good fusion of fish, plants and art.



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Cheeky young pup


You are flattering me, not with the cheeky part, but with the young pup one .

Looking very nice, the Star Grass is really coming in strong. Also, the front of the hill (do we have a name for it yet? ) is coming together. Did you trim the Diandra?

Is the right side the area that the Rams call their home? Or are they perusing the whole tank?

What&#8217;s the latest on fish? What are your current thoughts on the large school. Wanna have about 20 Espei?

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The front of the hill (do we have a name for it yet? )
Not as of yet, I'm open to suggestions.

Did you trim the Diandra?
Yes, I think I mentioned it in an earlier post (I know it's hard to catch them all) that I was amazed at how well the diandra grew and then when I looked closer to see a black section 3/4 down the stem. I guess it shows that the plants get most of what they need thru the water column. So I cut back. It's kinda struggling, I don't know if it's one of these plants that doesn't do well with the excel overdose treatment.

Is the right side the area that the Rams call their home?
How did you know. They do peruse the whole tank, but are on the right side 99% of the time.

Still haven't decided on the large school yet, your espei's do look nice. Here's an updated pic from tonite. The stargrass is almost to the top as well as the rotala. I'm not looking forward to the trimming. I'm torn between replanting all stem tops as opposed to cutting and letting the lower part regrow.



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I also decided to change my method of co2 diffusion. There was nothing wrong with the canister injected method, plant health was really good, but I wasn't getting any pearling. As Bensaf pointed out it could be a possibly of the excel treatment that you pointed out as well, but I wanted to try something else. So I setup a limewood airstone right below my spraybar. Here's a pic as the microbubbles go up and then across the tank. (I'll probably eventually get the glass diffusor for aestetics and for effectiveness,although this limewood airstone gives off really nice small bubbles.



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tetratech,

I just set up my 2nd DIY Co2 with a limewood block. I really like the small bubbles it makes too. Right now I have the ladder going on one side of the tank with the block under my filter. I havent noticed tons of change but its only been going for a day. My Bacopa did crack the surface today but I have added some other stuff in the mix too.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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I hear ya Wingdsc. Something about those little bubbles.
Make sure you test your co2 levels with both of those going.

BTW - I was in my lfs the other day. I picked up some otos for my 12g as well as 2 kuli loaches to help move around the sand and on my way out I noticed they were selling riccia.

So I took some as well. Fiqured it would be fun to play around with it. I thought it was interesting the way it was priced $1.99 per ounce.




Last edited by tetratech at 15-Jan-2006 18:48

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Nice find on the riccia!..I'd like to see how it turns out in your tank setup
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I thought it was interesting the way it was priced $1.99 per ounce.


So how much surface area is an ounce?

As far as my Co2 levels go....
I might have to actualy go buy some test kits but right now as long as my fish aren't freaking out then things are good. I was actualy thinking of hooking up a 3rd bottle just to see what happens.

Edit:
Maybe that will have to be a new thread.....

Last edited by Wingsdlc at 15-Jan-2006 21:47

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Fiqured it would be fun to play around with it.


It is fun to play with. But once you've got it, you pretty much have it for life. It's remarkably easy to grow and grows fast. You only need one little tiny scrap to survive and you have a whole new batch.

I got rid of mine a while back to make room for other plants. Thought I got rid of it all but it keeps cming back. Even in the small non Co2 tank it keeps popping up.

Not a big problem it's easy to remove. It pops up tangled in moss , ferns Anubias. I just leave it be til there's a big ball of the stuff, then I pull it out. But a tiny piece will remain snagged somewhere a few mionths later you have a big ball again.

I think it will work well in your tank. Just hold it down on a stone with a hair net or mix some in with the moss.


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tetratech,

Yeah, I think Riccia is a very nice plant, look at all the Amano tanks that have full ground covers with it.

But I also believe they are a pain in the neck to keep trimmed. You will have to cut them short frequently to avoid the bottoms from dying off and the rest floating to the surface (or being swirled around the tank and settling all over the place).

And unfortunately I currently know one other person who has problems with not maintaining his ground cover right .

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You will have to cut them short frequently to avoid the bottoms from dying off and the rest floating to the surface (or being swirled around the tank and settling all over the place).
Yes I have heard that. I plan on just using it on a few rocks, etc., but I know the little pieces are going to be a pain.

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I really like the look of the E.Stellata Wide Leaf. It reminds me of exploding fireworks (especially if it starts to color up more), unfortunately it has a very week stem structure as you could see it's being straighted with a bbq stick.



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Eusteralis Stellata, var. barbequii



It is very pretty though

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Eusteralis Stellata, var. barbequii

You know I read this and for a second I was going to look up that name. Not enough coffee yet:%)

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I'm sorry to intrude in such impolite manner, but according to what I see in the pictures, especially the last one, you have Limnophila aromatica there, and not Eusteralis stellata. I say this because of the shape of the leaves and also because of the slight colour that can be seen on the underside of the leaves.

According to my experience with L. aromatica, your problem is lack of nutrients rather than lack of light. Try to add a little more fertiliser before you mess with your lights and see what happens. If that is the problem you'll see that it colours up very quickly (2 - 3 days), and it will also become more robust so that the skewer will not be necessary anymore.

Last edited by Untitled No. 4 at 16-Jan-2006 13:29
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Son's of a $%#&amp;. I know the aromatica is many times sold as E. Stellata. This pic below from the Krib is saying it's E. Stellata and this is exactly what my plant looked like when I purchased it. The new growth looks much different from the original growth tha melted away.



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And where have you been all that time Untitled No. 4? I missed you.

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I've heard of the water sprite for wistera trick, but this is ridiculous.

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Untitled No. 4
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That picture from the Krib shows a really poor E. stellata, if you ask me. It can, and it often does, look much better. But there's nothing wrong with L. aromatica, it's actually quite a nice plant. Add some more Flourish/TMG/whatever it is you're using and see how nicely it grows as it developes deep purple shade on the leaves, first on the underside and then on the top as well. It's also a little less moody than the E. stellata, but it shows right away when it doesn't get enough nutrients.

As for where I have been, I was here lurking most of the time. I was also busy at work (not all of us have the time to surf forums from work...) and then busy with setting up a new tank a few weeks ago. And anyway, I don't think I've had much to add to all that was going on here, but it is nice to see both of your progress.
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Untitled, yep I think your right I pretty much confirmed that it's the aromatica, but each one looks very similiar here's two better pics from the Plantfinder at APC. The first one is aromatica and the next is e. stellata. These pics are taken from the same tank with the same conditions.

First the aromatica:

null

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and the E. Stellata



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The E.Stellata is smoother and does grow bigger as well.

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They usually sell Aromaitica and Stellata side by side here in the same tanks. When I see them together they look almost identical yet there's always a difference I can't quite put my finger on. Seen seperately I can never tell the damn difference.

The narrow leaf Stellata is very easy to spot, but that's one finnicky plant.

I prefer the Aromatica anyway, it's easier to grow. like the light purple undersides, real nice shade. I think it's a bit more subtle too, the Stellata is a bit "show offy" for my taste.

If it is Aromatica I agee with untitled the color will come from nutrients rather then light. Think about it, the main color is on the underside of the leaf, light is not going to play much of a role there.


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If it is Aromatica I agee with untitled the color will come from nutrients rather then light. Think about it, the main color is on the underside of the leaf, light is not going to play much of a role there.
That's really an excellent point. I'm going to try and up my Flourish dosing. I'm not using a dedicated FE supplement, the diandra is not coloring up as well. Guess they aren't getting much FE from the roots thru the eco. I was hoping with the eco and the flourish they would be fulfilled in the FE department.

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My stargrass has reached the top of my tank, from maybe a 1 inch clipping in about 30 days time. So that's about 3/4 inch per day based on my tank being 22inches tall.



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And what are you going to do with it now, tetratech?

I am very keen on finding out how the next trimming will go.

I will keep my fingers crossed,

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And what are you going to do with it now, tetratech?

You must be reading my mind. After I put up this post I was going to edit and say "what do I do know?"

It looks really good right now, but I know it's just a moment in time. I know last time it stalled after cutting it back, but I wasn't running the same levels of no3 at the time. I did prune some stems and they did grow right back. Maybe I should run a poll?

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Well,

How does the bottom part of it look like?

My tall ones usually have very thin bottoms, with loads of water roots (that sometimes find their way back into the substrate), and no leaves at least in the center parts of a group.

I guess not trimming it is no option anyway, so the poll should be like:

a) just trim off the tops
b) replant the tops and dispose the bottoms
c) other options (please explain)



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I guess another possibility is to trim out some of the middle stems to allow more light to enter the middle. Not sure how that would look.

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I like the idea of replanting the tops for this one. With a tall stem plant theres always the risk of making it look stringy. If they're tall they should be bushy, IME


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Wow..Nice growth!
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Here's an updated pic of the foreground area of my tank.
I covered two rocks with riccia and placed them jutting out from some of the other rocks that are now almost forming a border with the wisteria in a more classic open foreground look. (Need some bigger rocks to complete).

I also decided that the controverial E.Stellata is better suited as a midground/background plant because of it's one thick stalk, so I'm going to attempt to move that forward a bit.



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Nice picture tetratech,

It also seems that the Blyxa has settled in nicely.

I agree with you that you need bigger rocks to make an impact with the Riccia.

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I think the Riccia is a really good choice in your tank.

You'll be able to propagate it pretty quick. When the current rocks get to "haircut" time you can use the clippings to make new rocks. It'll fill in that central area where the group of 3 Japonica are real nice.


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Thanks guys!

As you can see, my 1 ounce at $1.99 riccia didn't go that far, but as Bensaf points out I'll probably just wait for it to grow. One concern I have with the bowfront and growing foreground plants is this. I have 2.7 wpg the tank is 22inch deep. The bowfront does have a darker area in the front of the bow, so I'm hoping there is enough light to grow the riccia.

I agree Bensaf, the riccia works well with the dark substrate in that center area it will green it up without being too distracting.


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tetratech,

I think the Riccia will be very distracting as it will create the bubble effect that you always wanted and as such draw a viewer&#8217;s attention to it in no time. A living air stone .

But in a good way .

I hear your concern about the lack of light in the front section. You might have a point there. The Riccia I have (and yes, I do have some that came in with the moss) doesn&#8217;t look too good in the areas that are low light within the moss. I guess we will have to wait and see how low the light in front there really is.

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I think the Riccia will be very distracting as it will create the bubble effect that you always wanted and as such draw a viewer&#8217;s attention to it in no time
You give me too much credit


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Well my little experiment with my co2 diffusion methods definitely confirmed something. I had recently changed my diffusion from thru the intake to a limewood diffusor under the spraybar. Both methods have kept my ph at around 6.2 to 6.4, but I'm noticing pearling on both my rotala and stargrass which never happened with the thru the intake method. So Bensaf's comment about the bubblemist is dead on. I'm sure I would get even more pearling with the finer bubbles that the glass diffusor makes.

Here's a pic (not a great one) showing current diffusion method. The wood airstone is right below the pic. You could see all the small bubbles going up and then sprayed across the tank. My bubble counter is set to a slow moving stream.

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Last edited by tetratech at 19-Jan-2006 19:09
[/font]

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You should try the glass diffusers. You'll get much smaller bubbles. Your 'ol mate Robert @ Aquabotanic is selling some nice ones for $8.99 - on sale.

If I remember correctly the wood airstones will corrode and disintegrate over time due to the CO2.


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NowherMan6
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Errr, ya'll know my feelings on glass diffusers


But whatever works for ya... by the way, what did you do with the tubing going from the CO2 tank to the airstone? Did you hide it or am I missing something?


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NowherMan6,

You don't like the glass diffusers? I must have misses something, some where...

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Love 'em my friend, love 'em. One of the best moves I've made. Neat looking, cleans up easy, not at all unsightly, does a great job saturating the water.


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Thats what I thought but I guess I read into your post wrong.

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Your 'ol mate Robert @ Aquabotanic is selling some nice ones for $8.99 - on sale
I think I'm on his do not sell to list.

Bensaf, you know the wood diffusor is just a bridge to the glass one.

Nowher the tubing is there, right in the middle of those bubbles.



Last edited by tetratech at 20-Jan-2006 00:10

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NowherMan6,

I guess you didn&#8217;t know that tetratech is also known as &#8220;The Man in Black&#8221;. He managed to so almost completely into stealth mode for his entire equipment, all black.

Sounds good with the new diffusion method. This glass diffuser thingy (that I am sure you will switch over to in no time) is very seducing. But I think I would have to give it a little more thought before I am sold on (for my tank, that is) the hassle of splitting the line and making sure each end gets the same amount CO2 worries me.

tetratech, I am a little surprised about your bubble rate. Given that we have the same unit you must be injecting more than I do (although my flow rate is fast too, it is not a low stream). Is your rather low ph a target you desire or is it a necessity because of the CO2 level you try to achieve?

Ingo


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The Man in Black
Might have to come up with a new av!

As far as the bubblerate. I'm a believer that the co2 should be pushed to the highest rate possible. Right now my plants look good and the fish seem really good to.
Could also be my diffusion rate isn't as good as the glass diffusor cult members. My ph looks to be between 6.2 and 6.4 late afternoon, so with a kh of 3 that gives me anywhere between 36 to 58 ppm.






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bensaf
 
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Yep I gave up counting bubbles too a while back. Just a steady stream going in, i'd guess 4 or 5 bubbles a second .I try to keep the pH at 6.6 but my Kh is higher at 5.


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I guess you didn&#8217;t know that tetratech is also known as &#8220;The Man in Black&#8221;.



Hate to burst your bubble here, but there's only one Man in Black, and his name is Johnny Cash. Sorry tetra. Still, maybe he liked fish tanks, I dunno...

As for the bubble rates, I'm in a similar position as tetra. My CO2 is somewhere in that range - according to CG calc. - but fish have shown no signs of stress, and that's good enough for me.



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his name is Johnny Cash
Yeah, but does Johnny Cash have:

Black trimmed AGA tank
Black self stick background
Black substrate
Black heater
Black intake tube
Black tubing

and black diandra stems

I really doubt it!

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Ye forgot the black beard algae !

I'm going down down down into a ring of fire, a ring fire


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I'm going down down down into a ring of fire, a ring fire
Are you having a bad day?

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It's Saturday. Getting ready for beer. Just humming my favorite Johnny Cash song.

Always thought that particular song would work well in an advertisement for hemorrhoid ointment.:%)


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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OMG! Every time I peek my head in here I leave laughing so hard it's just not right. (After three kids laughing too hard is not a good thing...)
The things you guys get up to!
Funny I've often though the same thing about that song!

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I really wish I could join in on the singing and beer drinking, but although it is Saturday I will have to go to work for a few (up to 14) hours. ]:|

That is my ring of fire, at least today.

Ingo



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I'm going down down down into a ring of fire, a ring fire
I must admit I don't know many Johnny Cash songs. Sounded more like something out of "Lord of the Rings" You know, movie stuff.



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Some updated pics and changes. I decided to establish a "beachfront" since I was so close to it anyway with all the petrified would. So the wisteria is now contained behind pieces of rock leading to the open foreground that contains blyxa and riccia and some hairgrass. I also trimmed some of the stargrass (yes, I blinked first) and planted it on the right of the main group so again I have stargrass bordering the group. The diandra is still very weak and it's now behind the new stargrass stand on the right. It has been given me alot of problems and I don't have the luxury of adjusting my parameters to fit it and I don't have another tank that I could play around with. Could be lighting or the excel treatment weakened it.






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Last edited by tetratech at 22-Jan-2006 10:29
[/font]

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In case it's hard to see in the previous pic the whiteline follows the rock border.



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Here's a comparison of before and after the beachfront.



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Closeup shot of some of the rock border to the right showing riccia cover rock. Missed a few spots covering the rock with the riccia also I have some duckweed I noticed trapped under the hairnet. &amp;*$% lfs



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Yes I can grow moss. This is one of the few places it grows well.



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Blink Blink

Well, looks nice, and so far the Star Grass on the right of the main group fits right in. Once grown in, it will give the Rotala and the Stellata more of a center stage in the tall plant group.

Funniest thing is: I just finished my maintenance (couldn&#8217;t do it yesterday, worked 13 hours in the office) and opened FP and what do I see, your beachfront. I just happened to start the removal process of the Glosso and cleaned the area in front of Rock Valley, making it an open gravel space, like a beachfront . More about this later this evening in my thread (can&#8217;t take good pictures now, have to wait until all the bubbling wears off a little).

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I like the beachfront look, it adds a different dimension to the tank, I wish I new more to be able to say that better but I do like some open ground in a planted tank, I think it gives the eye a path to follow and a place to rest in between all the green. Tetra your tank looks great as always and I'm sure the riccia will fill in and cover the whole rock pretty soon. Ingo I can't wait to see the pics of your new beachfront. Man that glosso really grew though!

Last edited by luvmykrib at 22-Jan-2006 13:53

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Thanks for the Beachfront comments,

LF,
Yep, pretty much fine-tuning the center display. Looking forward to seeing your beachfront.

Lumykrib,
Thanks for the comments on the beachfront, still adjusting a few things, but so far I'm happy with it. I agree that it breaks it up more and gives more constrast.



Last edited by tetratech at 23-Jan-2006 04:53

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Yeah dude, that beach front thing literally works. The right side of your tank can now be called the wisteria jungle, because it looks very much like a miniature jungle on the edge of a beach. Ever been to the carribian, to any of those islands down there? Seriously, that right side reminds me of flying over some of those silands in a plane, looking down from above. very cool.


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Seriously, that right side reminds me of flying over some of those silands in a plane, looking down from above
I'll take it!

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Any new ram breeding? it's been a while now...


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Any new ram breeding? it's been a while now
It's funny that you said that. Just the other day I noticed that rich brown-orange body color again. So the courtship as begun once again.

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Must've been all that time relaxing on the beach together. A few new life spectrum coladas, some brine shrimp cocktail served chilled - it was a regular honeymoon for them!


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Here's a closeup of the ricca after about 5 days. Seems to be growing. I didn't do the greatest job covering the rock and as I mentioned I trapped a piece of duckweed in there as well.



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luvmykrib
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The rock looks very natural that way, moss doesn't pop up and entirely cover a rock all at once, it takes over gradually, you've captured the look where the moss is showing it's potential and the rock being slightly visible doesn't detract at all from the moss. I would give it the time it needs.

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luvmykrib,
Thanks for the nice comments about the riccia. I of course agree with you. I think in another week or so it will really look good.

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More Rams to look out for, lovely

I like the Riccia Rock and I can&#8217;t wait to see its progress. If you haven&#8217;t done so already, try to make pictures of it from the same distance and angle all the time so maybe one day you can post the stages in comparison.

Having it on a rock should make pruning rather easy, I guess. Do you see any fish nibble on it? I think my Platies in the smaller tanks do that.

Ingo



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I thought this was an interesting pic. It shows the microfine co2 bubbles that are coming off my wood airstone that aren't even strong enough to break the surface. If you look closely you could see some pearling on the rotala.



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I notice I get the same thing periodically, though to me it's more of a bad thing than a good thing - it means my filter outflow has slowed down enough that there's no longer enough water movement throughout the tank. That's when i know to clean.

In the past I've noticed this buildup of little surface bubbles right above plants that are pearling heavily. The bubbles would be so fine they wouldnt break the surface. Before the redo it usually coincided with BGA showing up somewhere...


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That's an interesting point. I really didn't contribute it to reduced flow just that the bubbles are so fine coming up from the diffusor that they aren't breaking the surface. In fact I have these little bubbles all across the 4 feet of tank. Another thing you'll love about the ehiems is that with all those bioballs instead of pads your clean out your filter every 3 to 6 months.

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I really didn't contribute it to reduced flow just that the bubbles are so fine coming up from the diffusor that they aren't breaking the surface. In fact I have these little bubbles all across the 4 feet of tank.


It's most likely quite different in your tank than mine. I have a HOB, remember, and the intake and outflow both take place nearer the surface of the water than with a cannister set-up. What SHOULD happen with mine is, little bubbles go up to the surface but dont break cause they're so small, but then get pushed around to the filter outflow and get broken up eventually. When mine sit I've learned to associate this with a dead-zone forming. Since the intake on a cannister is much lower in the water you have sufficient flow lower down, something I don't have... yet. That's why to me it's a lovely looking thing... but nevertheless I try to avoid that with my present set-up.

Another thing you'll love about the ehiems is that with all those bioballs instead of pads your clean out your filter every 3 to 6 months.


Already looking forward to it...


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The bubbles clinging to the surface is quite common, even for fairly large bubbles. Normally there will be thin film or slick on the suface of the water. How thick that film will be is dependent on a number of factors.

The bubbles get got under this film and cling to it raher then bursting.

By the time they get to the suface they may not even be Co2 bubbles but rather o2. As the small micro bubbles reach for then the surface and there's agas exchange where the co2 is dissolved and replaced by O2.

This is probably one reason why so many where sceptical about the glass diffusers and so surprised when they worked. People assumed the bubbles just went to the top and burst. Waste of gas was the common perception. Chances are most of the bubbles hitting the surface are no longer Co2.

I notice myself, as maybe you do, that a very large proportion of the bubbles produced by the diffuser make it to the surface - yet we have no problems getting and mintaining the good required Co2 levels. QED.

Last edited by bensaf at 24-Jan-2006 20:42


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here is a thread from another place and this kind has kind of a neat set up for diffusion. 200G with DIY Co2. A little crazy if you ask me but his tank looks nice.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I guess I'll bring my thread back to life with a pick.

Here's a current shot of one of my riccia covered rocks.
Growth in length, but not too much add'l coverage. The riccia is really beautiful and it's not hard to see why it's so popular as a ground/hardscape cover.

LF I promise I'll get a comparison shot soon.





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Looks like a Chio Pet, or however this is spelled



Ingo,

No really, looks nice


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luvmykrib
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It really does look nice. I still like the bit of bare rock sticking out. Not really like a chia pet at all, that's just grass or something, the riccia is much more interesting.
This is one held on with a hairnet right? What's your plan for removing the hairnet when the riccia is fully attached? Please do give a comparison shot to one that is tied on, it will be neat to see if there's a difference.

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Thanks luvmykrib. You know that LF, he has such a way with words.

Actually the comparison between hairnet and thread is in my 12g tank with java moss. This tank has only riccia held down with hairnets. The hairnet will remain as long as the rock is in there. Without it the riccia will simply float to the top since it's incapable of really attaching itself. The comparison was going to be by time not by how it was held down.

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I got them mistaken, so a comparison of attachment will be showing up in the other thread then? Using a hairnet to hold the riccia on is a stroke of genius, I never would have thought of it...then again I don't have hairnets on hand...or wear them...ever!
A growth comparison to what exactly, from when it was planted to now? Do you have some in another tank to also compare it to? That would be neat, but if not it will still be interesting to see how much it has grown.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Update:

1. Beachfront completely established with rock.
2. Added a bigger piece of wood to left to match the other two pieces.
3. Stargrass on the right has taken off and is growing in front and behind the center DW. Stargrass on left is also growing in front of DW.
4. The diandra is pretty much gone. I left it to fend for itself behind the stargrass on the right.
5. Cut one stalk of E.stellromatica to bring the grouping closer to midground. I would like to wrap another plant behind it if possible.


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Tetratech,

Looking very nice.

You said you trimmed the Star Grass but it seems (with the other plants in the group) to still reach the surface. Is it growing that fast?

If I would have a say (which I don't ) then I would recommend to let the Star Grass group on the right grow only half heigh.

Ingo


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Thanks LF,

Yes, it growing extremely fast and I do plan on "blinking some more" in fact I'll probably end up cutting both stands of stargrass lower than the rotala and stellaromatic.



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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
tetratech,

diandra...is that....http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/SAP/DD

I kind of like the way that plant looks. Why types of problem are you having with it because I have been eyeing it for sometime now.

Edit:I was really thinking of this stuff......sorry!
http://www.freshwateraquariumplants.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?page=FAP/PROD/SAP/ENAR

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 27-Jan-2006 05:40Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Wingdsc,
I had the diandra I never had the egeris. Both seem to be fine-leaved. The diandra kept getting black stem sections 2/3 the way down. It seems like my lite wasn't strong enough for it.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Jan-2006 16:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wings,

The Najas is much smaller in diameter than the Diandra. Also, it is by far not as pretty, and it will melt when one is using Excel (to kill algae, for example).

But on the upside it needs less light than the Diandra.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Jan-2006 17:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Just did some testing as far as kh and ph. Lately my kh has been 2, usually 3. PH is anywhere between 6.2 and 6.4

Assuming the kh kit is sound (pretty old - more than 1 year) my co2 ppm is anywhere between 24 and 38. That's a pretty big range. I think this is a classic example of why you have to watch the fish and plants. Many might interpret their ph as closer to the 6.2 and swear their co2 is in the 30s, but it is actually in the 20s.

I'm still getting bba and if Tom Barr is correct my co2 is probably closer to the 20s. Plants are growing and pearling so things are good I just want to beat back the bba without going broke using excel.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Jan-2006 20:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Excel is just cost too much but it works so well. What is a guy to do? I have actualy stoped using it in my 40 gal but I have upped my DIY Co2 to two brews of mix. Things are growing really well. I have plants that are growing to the top of the tank. Its way cool.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 01:59Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Wingdsc,
Glad to hear the plants are doing so well. I guess I'll have to up my bubble count to raging rapid.

Anyway here's a comparison pic of one of my riccia covered stones. The angle is slightly different, but you could definitely see the flatness under the hairnet and then 9 days later.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 02:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Here's a pic of it against a backdrop of wisteria and some blyxa to the right. I think it constrast very nicely with the petrified wood. What do you think? I'd really like to know

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 02:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Looking nice and growing well

The only thing that I can say that would not be perfect (if I had to ) is that it is too small to make an impact.

We need more of this stuff, either on larger stones or maybe on growing matts .

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 11:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks,

I do plan on greening up the center area with more of this stuff. As I mentioned I barely had enough to cover the two rocks. Now that I have the border of rocks I will be added more rock to the inside in selected areas and they will be covered with riccia. Maybe I'll do a different chia sculputure of each one in your honor.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 15:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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More would be better but it does look really nice. I am thinking of getting some Pellia moss. I like the looks of the stuff.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 17:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Maybe I'll do a different chia sculputure of each one in your honor


Yeah

How about if you start with a Little Fish

I am glad that you are planning on expanding the Riccia group, it could be very very pretty (or a mess, but as long as it is not free in the tank you can easily dispose of it).

Ingo

EDIT: NEXT ONE IS 1000 - Leave it for tetra


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Post InfoPosted 28-Jan-2006 21:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yes, it's the 1,000 post to my log that was started about 4 months ago. Biggest conclusion is "You can't be all things to all inhabitants. If you constantly try to fine-tune parameters, etc there is always a conter reaction. You most pick your flora and fauna wisely if you don't want to .

Here's a pic from today. Trimming time is overdue and has already cost my a blyxa that was unfortunately under the canopy of the overgrown stargrass and rotala. Also the pencilfish are pulling at the blyxa and riccia like spagetti. They are starting to bother me. But all this is a foregone conculusion.

LF, Thanks for saving me the 1,000th

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 00:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You are welcome tetratech,

I think 1000 is a very special number, the next one of that kind would be 1 million, and if it takes us 4 month for 1000 then it would be 4000 months, or 333.33 years to 1 million. I don't think you and I will be around for that one .

Anyway, from your statement I take it that Blyxa needs to be in full light. Good to know, as this means that the plant would have a hard time being the borderplant between tall and short plants as rather often than not the tall plants will create some shadow.

And yeah, trimming is overdue

Congrats to the 1,000

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 01:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hopefully by replying I can freaking veiw the last 2 pages of your log! Whats up with this? Some kind of glitch from the new fish profiles look?
Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 03:51Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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saltnewbie,

Right on the money. You are seeing everything there is the see. There are just extra pages beeing added here and there on some of the threads.

55G Planted tank thread
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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 04:03Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Interesting side note I recently introduced 6 add'l cardinals tetras to my existing school of 9. This is the first group I have added since my UV has been running. All other groups that I have introduced prior to my UV resulted in some inevitably getting an infection within a few days and dying. So far after about a week all 6 are fine and I see no signs of any infection. Is the UV the answer for fish that are sensitive to pathogens and other diseases. It's only one group of six, so I'll probably purchase anothe group shortly and see if I have the same success. And yes LF, my rummys do school with my cardinals at times

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Glad to hear you're having success with the new cardinals! I was wondering how they would do, since you hypothesized earlier that going from UV holding tanks to your non-UV tank may have been shocking their immune systems. As you've been saying, keeping the tank clean is one thing, keeping the fish infectionf ree is an added bonus. You're on your way to that big school


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks nowher UV good, GW bad

Speaking of big schools, looks like my rams are getting the honeymoon suite ready. Colors are out of control, pushing gravel around. What do you think if I just use a net breeder in the tank and feed BBS. Think any will survive.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'm not familiar with how a net breeder works

The important thing is getting them away from those hungry cardinals and pencils. As long as you get any fry to their safe house, whatever that might be, mix them with some java moss for them to peck through and feed them the BBS they should be OK.

Another option, if you want to help the fry survive, is maybe putting a clumo of java moss right next to their rock in the back. This way they'll have a hiding place to run to to keep away from the pencils til they grow a little larger. They should be able to feed themselves with little bits of whatever in the moss/ on nearby plants.


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I'm not familiar with how a net breeder works

I'm just referring to those little rectangle nets that people hang in their tank. It's about 8" wide. It would set in the 72g and I could siphon some free swimmers right into it.

The javamoss is a good idea in the back. I guess the wisteria isn't dense enough and the pencils go thru it.



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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You know me well tetratech, the rummie in the school was the first thing I noticed

A netbreeder might be worth a try, just make sure it doesn't hang in full current or a stale area. Also, it shouldn't be in direct light.

Glad to hear the Cardinals are doing well.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Jan-2006 18:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks LF,
As you know I have a million and one uses for wisteria, so if I get the net breeder I will fill it with wisteria clipppings to block light, etc.

When I take pics of my tank it look's empty but there's actually 45 inhabiants in the tank.



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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 22:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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45 fish in your tank. That is really wild being you never see any thing in your pictures. How do you do that??

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:04Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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yeah, post some livestock pictures

1.) so we can get an idea of what fish are included in the 45

2.) to fill up this log so something actually appears on pgs 40-41


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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I don't think I'll ever catch up to the last page they keep reproducing like LF's espei. I'll have to do that but the flauna list is as follows:

15 Cardinals
9 Otos
8 Pencils
4 Rummys
2 Corys
2 Bolivan Rams
5 Shrimp

45 Total





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Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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All pretty small fish. I don't think I could get a shot of my tank with out a fish in it. Most of my fish are bigger than yours though. Pictures would be cool as Nowher said.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 31-Jan-2006 23:36Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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The riccia grows real fast. You'll be able to give it a haircut soon and use the trimmings to make new rocks.

The fish will treat it like spaghetti, I once made a post with a series of pics of all the different species of fish I had treating the Riccia like it was an all you can eat buffet. Usually the stuff grows faster then the fish can damage it.

The Blyxa definately can't take any shading. I've had prblems with mine where the sags around it have gone wild and are shading choking it out.

It's the monsoon season here and it's almost like the plants can sense it, everything is gone wild growth wise and I can't keep up with the trimming. Even with trying to do some work on the tank every evening I have some plants growing out the top of the tank.


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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 05:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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bensaf,

Thats a very interesting thought. I wonder if the out side stuff plays a role with our little worlds...

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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 05:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
I wonder if the out side stuff plays a role with our little worlds...


Well certainly the temperature has dropped. This is the coldest I've ever been in this country. It a wintry chilly 25oC 5 years in this country and I've never even owned a jacket , I bought one a couple of weeks ago. Mainly for wearing indoors, most places still have their AC set high, so it's a bit chilly in most indoor places. Going to the cinema is like watching a movie in a fridge.

Most plants are seasonal, usually aquatic's slow down in the hot summer months. Maybe the temp drop as kicked them up a gear or maybe it's the glass diffuser working do well. But everythings getting bigger, growing faster. A sword I've had for almost a year and a half has suddenly decided the tanks too small for him and is producing leaves over 2 feet in lenght and about 3" wide Java Ferns think they're Hygros


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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 08:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Sounds like you are having fun then. Good luck with all that!

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 15:23Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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When I take pics of my tank it look's empty but there's actually 45 inhabiants in the tank


Tell me all about it. As you know I have 100 in my tank and in full tank shots you can barely see 5.

Yeah Bensaf, makes sense with the growth of the plants based on climate changes. The same applies to fish, as much as I know. Some species are getting in the mood when there is a storm approaching. I would explain both with a change in conductivity (or something like that, I am not a weather guy) of the air. This sends a message to all living things that it is time for action.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 15:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The Blyxa definately can't take any shading

Oh great now he tells me. Is there a moderator in the house?

A sword I've had for almost a year and a half has suddenly decided the tanks too small for him and is producing leaves over 2 feet in lenght and about 3" wide

Do you expect anything less in your Amano Paradise Utopia Setup

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EditedEdited by luvmykrib
25 C is chilly? You need a jacket? It is just about perfect from where I see it. We haven't dropped down to -30 C yet this year, it has been an unnaturally warm winter, my heaters haven't had to work nearly as hard as they did last year. My house temp is set at 19 C, or 20C when I feel cold, to save on heating costs, yet the tanks are all set at 26-28C usually. Must be nice to live in such a tropical area. When the temp drops here I'll be asking for any pictures of sunny places, palm trees that sort of thing. I'll tape them up on the tanks so the fish think it's really nice here and won't wonder why the people are all bundled up!

Oops, when I posted this I didn't realize there had been more pages added to it. Everytime I go to the last 2 pages there's nothing there!

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Post InfoPosted 01-Feb-2006 22:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Oh great now he tells me. Is there a moderator in the house?


Well you didn't have it in a shady spot. I'm just beginning to realise that light is it's only real finicky thing. It's growing terribly slowly for me. Lots of side shoots but they take forever to do anything. I suspect it's because the tank is relatively deep (almost 24" and they are struggling for light. I'd say the same light in a shallower tank and they'd be much happier.

Well, the "Paradise" is badly in need of some heavy work. I haven't had time for much more then trimming. Chain sword/sags need to ripped up and thinned out. Anubias need to be adjusted slightly, moss needs trimming and sculpting badly etc etc, it's a very thick jungly paradise at the moment.
luv,
It's just relative. I've grown used to >30o heat and high humidity almost the whole year round. 25o , storms and heavy rain that we are having makes it seem wintry here when actually it's more like a typical Irish summer day. I lived in Russia for a couple of years, it'd get down to -20 there so I've been thru all the extremes.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 04:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Uncle bensaf,

What is up with living all over the world?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 14:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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What is up with living all over the world?


Who knew so many countries had extradition treaties !


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 20:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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bensaf, you must have done some pretty dodgy things to get thrown out of russia of all places...


No offense meant to our russian friends...


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Ouch!

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Post InfoPosted 02-Feb-2006 21:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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bensaf, you must have done some pretty dodgy things to get thrown out of russia of all places...


Well if I'd known at the time she was Vladimir Putin's daughter ............


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 04:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It is getting deep in here. (where did I leave my chest wadders?)

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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 04:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Bensaf, you're a strapping young lad, I'm sure I'd want you on my side in a donnybrook... but if you messed around with Putin's daughter, well, you wouldn't be here talking on FP - you'd be up in that big Amano Paradise in the sky!





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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 05:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
I'd want you on my side in a donnybrook...


Donnybrook Now there's a phrase I haven't heard in a long time. Do you know where it comes from ? Donnybrook is a district on the southside of Dublin close to where I was born and raised. There's was a bit trouble there way back, bit of a spat between some rebs and the British army. The Dublin boys were armed with pretty much just their fists and anything else they could grab at the time. Hence the phrase.

Sorry I'm bringing this thread way off track.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 05:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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bensaf,

It happens... I don't mind so much being I just learned someting...other than fish stuff... which I learn tons from here. It is tetratech's log though and he would have to forgive you.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 05:30Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I knew it was an Irish term, knew it was named after a town, but I just thought the town was a bit of a rough neighborhood - didn't know the bit about the British army.

You guys ever been in a donnybrook? Every guy should go through one at some point I went to an all guys high school, it happened there more often than you'd think. Then there was that one time in London...

alas, you're both right, this is tetras thread and all. He's been on sporadically the past few days, he's still traveling maybe?


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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 05:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Ironically Donnybrook is one of the poshest parts of Dublin.

I used to run an Irish pub in Beijing. There was the occassional err..."misunderstanding"

The funniest one is a story that I tell over a few beers and usually has people rolling around the ground laughing. Lets just say it involves a German girl, a lit cigarette shoved in my ear by a drunk Canadian cowboy, a psychotic Belgian chef who refused to cook Irish stew, a missing pair of dentures that turned up 2 days later in the back of a taxi, and the Chinese secret police.

All the makings of a donnybrook !

That was a good one. I've still got a scar.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 06:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
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The funniest one is a story that I tell over a few beers and usually has people rolling around the ground laughing. Lets just say it involves a German girl, a lit cigarette shoved in my ear by a drunk Canadian cowboy, a psychotic Belgian chef who refused to cook Irish stew, a missing pair of dentures that turned up 2 days later in the back of a taxi, and the Chinese secret police.


You didn't tell me about that one (maybe because you were sober? ). I thought the one about the gun smuggling, "Ice Cream", Irish PM, and Chinese secret police was good too. Hmm...do all your stories always end up with police at the end?

-P
Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 07:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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AAAAAnyway,

tetratech, did your premium membership expire?

Images and color - all gone

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 03-Feb-2006 11:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I'm back
A guy goes skiing for a few days and finds his thread in a in a ganglion of knots.

The ram eggs are back to. The were laid right in the left front on one of the beachfront rocks.





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Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 16:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Welcome back tetra

Nice to see the rams back at it. And this time right out in the open like that - the tank must be their property now


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 17:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah,

Welcome back, I thought your kidney stones were acting up again .

Nice ram eggs, should be plenty of photo ops to see them hatch.

Got to run, will post latest tank pic in my thread and then have to sign off.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 17:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks Nowher and LF, It's good to be back.

So let's see I leave for a few days and...

1. My log is in shambles
2. My rams spawn

and

3. My log gets taken over by some sorted tale about a german girl, a lit cigarette, a drunk Canadian cowboy, a psychotic Belgian chef, Irish stew, a pair of dentures, the back of a taxi, the Chinese secret police, Putin's daughter and Bensaf.

I've reported all those involved to the necessary authorities.

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Post InfoPosted 05-Feb-2006 22:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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I've reported all those involved to the necessary authorities.


That's ok, but for God's sake, man, just don't tell them where I am


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 03:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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O.K, I've joined the ranks of the co2 glass diffusor users.

That's ok, but for God's sake, man, just don't tell them where I am

Bensaf, if I find out your on the payroll of some sorted online aquarium supplier pushing these devices to ignorant americans like me I will find you, even if I have to search every sleazy pub on half the globe.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 16:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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All right tetratech

Once again you can serve as a tester for things that I have on my list. If you easily get the desired results on your 72G with one diffuser then it might be worthwile for me to try it as well . Hope you don't mind me copying you (see Star Grass).

What size of a diffuser is that, and where can I learn more about it?

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Nice, tetra. As I said in my thread, I had bubbles going straight up to the surface, no blocking the, or shooting them back down, I was getting great saturation. It must be the fine bubbles that do it


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF, I bought mine at aquabuys. Here's the link:

http://www.aquabuys.com/miva/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=j_co2_diffuser&Category_Code=i3&Product_Count=1

I didn't measure it but you'll see by the description that it's supposely good for up to 120g. It does blow the bubbles since my spraybar is directly above it, clear across my tank.

BTW - What do you mean you copied my stargrass? No patents on these things? All the planted tanks are combinations of plants, wood, rock, etc. No two exactly alike.


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Thanks for the link tetratech

Sounds like it could be big enough then for my tank as well. I am a little sceptical to use diffuser(s) if I would need 2 and had to split the line.

Copied your Star Grass: Well - I used your tank to see how well it does under similar conditions. And it does well, so I gave it a shot in my tank too .

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I doubt if you would need two, but again you have the 6-ft tank not me. For me also it's a little different because my main grouping is off center to the left where the diffusor is, so we only talking a few feet the rest of the tank is you know "weeds"

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Post InfoPosted 06-Feb-2006 19:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Pretty good shot of my ram eggs closeup. I expect them to hatch in a day or two.



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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 02:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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tetratech,

Very nice picture. Congrats! What are your plans?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 02:26Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Very nice picture. Congrats! What are your plans

There's the rub!

My pencilfish and 15 cardinals are already licking their chops. I probably will attempt to remove some into a floating breeder in the tank and some others into a 5gallon that I have running (future nano tank).

Last spawn none survived in the 72g and the 10 or so I put into the 5g didn't survive, but I also didn't feed live food. This time I plan on hatching BBS.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 02:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The whole trying to breed in a commuity tank is tricky stuff. In my 55G I am keeping a pair of Cons (aka cichlid rabits) and I almost never have the fry make it. At least in any kind of quanity. Right now I have a 3 or 4 week old fry that has some how made it up to this point(2 spawns later).

I tryed the breeding net and I lost the fish faster than the parents did. I guess I messed something up... I have heard you can take the eggs out and put them in a different tank so that might be something to try... Good luck!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 03:34Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Darn tetra found out about my link to the Taiwanese Aquatic mafia - the Okidifusserwas

Yes my shameful secret I hang around schoolyards trying to hook younsters on diffusers. I'm responsible for a whole generation of MTS sufferers

Welcome to the club.

Ingo,
If you decide to go down that route I can get nifty little Co2 T-bar's here real cheap. They allow you to run 2 co2 lines off one needle valve. I can post one over.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 04:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yes my shameful secret I hang around schoolyards trying to hook younsters on diffusers.


Really!

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 04:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

Nice egg shot, I hope we will see many wigglers coming out soon .

About the diffuser option, I will create a thread specific to the topic at hand.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 15:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well don't think I'm going to have any ram fry this time around. This morning they were all vibrating and when I looked a few hours later all but a few eggs were gone and the parents are both visible in the front of the tank. My hypothesis is that the eggs being laid in the front of the tank made it very difficult and stressful for the parents to secure them. I have so much thick ground cover it's hard to believe none will survive in there. It also might be water conditions. From what I understand ram fry don't tolerate high no3 levels, which probably do exist in my tank.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 18:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Sorry to hear that tetratech,

Give it one more try and if it doesn't work out and you decide you would like to safe some fry then you might have to set up a breeder tank (I think).

Ingo




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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 19:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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If you're really set on raising up some of the fry, and since the pair is well established, you can probably get away with using that spare 5 gallon as a one-time breeding tank. Use plant clippings and few spare rocks to create cover, put them in there and see if they lay eggs. Once the eggs are there you can always remove the parents back to the big tank.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 19:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yeah, you guys are right. I guess I'm trying to have my cake and eat it too.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 19:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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The ram's are breeding nicely, too bad they haven't managed to raise the fry though. Do the parents leave the other fish alone as well? Many cichlids become incedibly aggressive when breeding, even kribs. Which is why I am not brave enough to get a male! Although it probably has a lot to do with tank size right?

"If you're afraid you'll make a mistake, you won't make anything."
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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 19:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Luv,
The bolivans do chase the other fish away to protect the spawn, but nothing too aggressive. Actually the first spawn the parents did a good job there's just too many little fish (no pun) who want a piece.


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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At least they're not killing the other fish! I was warned that the kribs would kill the other fish if they were ready to spawn, never mind what they'd do after they were finished and any had escaped the first purge!
Are you going to have the 5g as a breeding and grow-out tank? You don't have to try and keep them all. I think it would be neat to breed them at least once successfully and raise some of the fry.
Other than that anything else new going on in the tank?

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Kribs and Bolivians are pretty far apart in terms of aggression. I had two kribs for awhile and after a week I had seen enough and returned them to the LFS.

Yeah, I'll probably start using the 5. A little concerned it might be two small for two bolivians. I'll have to look into that alittle more.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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You could get a ten.

Couldn't you?

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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luvmykrib,

If you could convince his wife he for sure would .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Yeah, I'll probably start using the 5. A little concerned it might be two small for two bolivians. I'll have to look into that alittle more



Spare rocks, spare DW pieces, lot of clippings. No susbstrate necessary. bare bones. or use one of those coconut caves. like i said, they're proven breeders, i can't imagine aggression between them. if anything it may be post-breeding, when one wants to to guard the eggs... in which case you just move the other back to the big tank.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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If you could convince his wife he for sure would

That pretty much says it all.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

We are sitting in the same boat

All I wanted for Xmas was a small 55G African Cichlid setup

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 21:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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We are sitting in the same boat

Yes we are. Sorry you didn't get the African Setup. I guess you'll have to keep working on it.

I think I might have scored some points by taking the two little kids away on a ski trip without the mrs. Little did I know how much work it was getting the two little ones in and out of their ski gear ever day, etc. Well at least we drank enough dark beer to make even Bensaf proud.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 22:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well at least we drank enough dark beer to make even Bensaf proud


You and the little ones?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 22:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You and the little ones


Yeah Bensaf pushes diffusers and I push black & tans.
I should have been more detailed. My friend went with his "little ones" as well.

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Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 22:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You guys are nuts... not that I am not being I beleive it takes one to know one... Sorry to hear about your fry. Who knows they might make it. I have a random Convict fry still hanging out in my 55G.

A 10G is really no threat. So small.. so little time and effort. Tell the wife you can make money doing it!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 07-Feb-2006 22:44Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I have a random Convict fry still hanging out in my 55G.

What else is in the tank?

See if I had a basement maybe, but when I setup a tank it's gotta go in the kitchen, den, bedroom. I actually have 5 setups around the house

72g - Kitchen
12g - Bedroom
10g - Kid's room (newt/fish setup)
5g - Den (setup for possible ram fry)
.5g - Kid's room (Betta tank)

Yes and every tank has some wisteria in it.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 02:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Lets see...

I have my rescued oscar...they had the poor guy in a 20G hex for a year and a half. M + F Con, Rainbow shark, 3 gaint danios, two B. Rainbows and a pleco.... I think thats it..

Ahh I see your problem... buy a new house...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 03:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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You could sell some of the wisteria to pay for the new tank and sell the ram babies to support your fish habit.

It would be very profitable to make that wisteria available to those of us up North who cannot find any and have to make do with water sprite, a very poor substitute for wisteria.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 03:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Yeah Bensaf pushes diffusers and I push black & tans.


By that comment I take it you're a Guinness man. My estimation, which was already high, has increased ten fold.

Liquid paradise. There's eatin' and drinkin' in it.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 08:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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By that comment I take it you're a Guinness man

Yes I am and then some.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Feb-2006 23:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thought this was a good pic showing my wisteria as a ground cover. This pic is taking thru the right side of the tank. The lower part is the wisteria pressed up against the glass.




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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 00:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Good shot of my E (cough) Stellata Group. The underside does have purple coloring but the top is mostly green. I don't think there's enough FE in Flourish, been dosing 15ml every other day. I will be trying a dedicated FE fert soon. Either way nice plant.




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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 00:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Pretty much full tank shot showing the reworked center. Everything trimmed. The E.Stellata has been brought forward and right behind the main rock with the rotala behind it. The stargrass now cascades over the left dw and rock.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 01:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Tetratech,

Wow your tank is looking great! My wisteria doesn't even come close but its on its way!! Look out for when i get my real Co2!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 01:41Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Wings,
I'm sure your wisteria will look just as good once you get the co2 going. Here's a full pic from the front.



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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 02:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
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I don't think there's enough FE in Flourish, been dosing 15ml every other day.


No, there isn't. Did you see this thread tetra? Turns out there's a lot less iron in Flourish than the online calculators (FertFriend, APC Fertilator, etc.) lead us to believe (only 10%). So 15mL of Flourish in your tank only gives you less than 0.02ppm of Iron (instead of 0.2ppm). 5mL of Flourish Iron gives you about 0.2ppm.

I just started dosing Flourish Iron in combination with Flourish last week (after reading the APC thread) and the difference in the red plants after just a couple of treatments was very noticeable.

-P
Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 02:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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So 15mL of Flourish in your tank only gives you less than 0.02ppm of Iron (instead of 0.2ppm). 5mL of Flourish Iron gives you about 0.2ppm.
'


Thanks Upikabu,
I actually did see that thread and never read it. I would say that is quite a difference. All this time I was trusting the fertilator and I was only getting a 10th of what I thought I was getting.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Feb-2006 04:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
luvmykrib
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That actually explains why dosing Flourish Fe every three days my plants are still showing signs of deficiency! I figured because I have very low-light and no CO2 I would not need to dose as much or as often as if the light were higher and had CO2. I don't get the cloudiness though unless I dose more. But I don't have to dose a lot more to get the cloudiness, this is probably my high KH and pH.

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Better shot of the tank this morning.



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Looks beautiful and very natural tetratech

But, just like you, I have a hard time with giving unconditional compliments

It seems the Blyxa is not growing in. Is that because it gets shaded by the beautiful group behind it?

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Riccia rocks looks great, that wisteria is amazing, it sur elikes your tank man. Good chatter above pointing out the iron situation with flourish, that's quite helpful to a lot of people.

how are the new cardinals doing, any losses?


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Thanks guys

Blyxa:
As bensaf noted is very light sensitive and I keep moving them toward the front because they do get shaded by the main group. Which I hate moving them because they are very sensitive. Also because of their so growth they are getting some bba on some of the leaves. I also don't know if the excel treatment is affecting their delicate leaves as well. To complicate matters further the bowfront where they are located is not the brightest spot in the tank.
I'm actually thinking about putting an additional light on the front of glass canopy to see if it has a better impact on any foreground plants there.

Flourish:
Yep, I'm definitely gonna look for a dedicated fe fert, any suggestions besides flourish.

Cardinals:
Beleive it or not I haven't lost one since I got the UV. I added 6 a few weeks ago all are good and I'm going to add another 6 this weekend which will give me a total of 21 on my way to 35 to 40.



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tetratech,

I can't wait for you to have a big school of cardinals. It will look super sweet to the max! Are you going to cut down on any of the other fish?

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tetra - great looking tank

question - how do you keep the wisteria short? and so it doesn't look cut?

mine is about 7-8inches tall and growing quickly - i want it to bush out not up?

do i just cut it?

cheers Karl

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First off make sure you have wisteria not water spirit. Just cut it and replant the top. The old bottem will start regrowing again. This is the tetratech method btw. I use it and it works!

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simple as that - cheers

i'll do some trimming tommorrow, while doing water change.

Cheers

Karl.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks Shekoi,

What wingdsc said is true, I just keep cutting and replanting, but when you replant don't plant it straight up, plant it on an angle like 30 to 40 degrees this way more of the stem comes in contact with the gravel and will root along the stem keeping more of it down.

Also if the plant is growing fast, it only looks cut for a day or so because the new leaves are coming out so fast. When you cut and replant eventually the cut stems getting hidden by the leaves.






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SheKoi,

tetratech forgot to mention that he has a special whip to get the wisteria in just the right shape

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always with the whipi perfer the red hot poker myself - probably not much use in water

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tetratech forgot to mention that he has a special whip to get the wisteria in just the right shape

O Ya, forgot the whip. I think they sell them on eBay.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 01:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Brand? Style? I want to be sure to get the right one!

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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 01:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Brand? Style? I want to be sure to get the right one!

Tetratech of course. Not to be confused with that company that puts out the Tetratec line of aquatic products.

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i couldn't find them!
http://search.ebay.co.uk/tetratec_W0QQfromZR40QQpqryZtetratech
sure they're on ebay - should look american site

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looks fantastic

how tall is that at the front?

how often do you have to trim it?

/:'

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EditedEdited by tetratech
It probably ranges from 2 to 4inches, but if you look at my tank from the front. The area in the pic around the driftwood is going up a hill so it looks taller than then it really is. My tank slopes up to the main grouping on each side so the wisteria looks like it's going up a hill.

The wisteria seems to be very no3 hungry. So if all the othe things are in place (light, ferts, co2) it will grow very fast. I trim different pieces every week to keep it looking like a smooth hill.

BTW - That search on ebay


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luvmykrib
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Send some trimmings my way! I really cannot find any locally, I ask and I get water sprite.

It looks really good though, I could just sit and stare at the wisteria.

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tetratech,

That is a very nice shot of the side of your tank. I like how the Wisteria creates a natural slope upwards towards your plant mountain.

And did something special happen in front of your tank while you took the picture? All fish seem to look out into that direction (almost all).

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And did something special happen in front of your tank while you took the picture

I was doing my daily tetra dance to keep the tank in balance. Don't most of you do a dance in front of your tanks to keep the gods happy and balance your tanks

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Count me amongst the apostates, tetra. During the green water plague my prayers for balance and clear water were answered with only more green water.

All hail the mighty UV idol! /:'


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Don't most of you do a dance in front of your tanks to keep the gods happy and balance your tanks


My fish usually hide in the darkest corners of the tank when I start to dance

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2006 20:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Interesting,

My kh this morning was 2, it's usually 3. Which means if my ph is 6.2 than my co2ppm is 24 and not 37 at same page but a kh of 3.

This might be part of my bba problem.
I guess I'm going to start adding baking soda during WC.



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This might be part of my bba problem


I guess you assume this relationship because of the lower CO2, right?

Your lowered KH is a reminder to all of us that tab water conditions change, sometimes very rapidly

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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 00:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I guess you assume this relationship because of the lower CO2, right

Yeah, Tom Barr seems to repeat this over and over again like religion. I have to assume he knows his stuff.

The only other wildcard is light. I was playing around with my light and tilted it toward the front. When I did this the front got much brighter making me realize even more the dark front the bow creates. It might simply be the reduced light is slowing growth and letting the BBA get hold.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
O.K. Here's the tank with the grouping of Rotala Wallachi I added today:





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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 03:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here's a closer shot of the Rotala W.

It definitely adds more color, but does it take away from the main grouping. I plan on keeping it about the height it is now, so the slope up to the middle remains.



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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 04:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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As you could see from this depiction:



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tetratech,

Looking nice

It is going to be interesting to see what the group of Rotala wallichii will do. Sounds like it will not take too long until you have to trim it already.

Tropica's description of it sounds very promising.

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Are you thinking of adding a second light? What type of light are you running now?

In my tank I just took off my glass lids because the hing was blocking too much light...

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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 15:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah I know another stem plant. I must be crazy.

Here's a pic of my Acer palmatum dissectum (Japanese Crimzon Queen Maple. Might give me an idea for a future scape.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 15:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Are you thinking of adding a second light? What type of light are you running now?

I'm running 192 watts (2.7wpg), but because of the bowfront the light intensity is weak toward the front, because the light sets on the back piece of glass behind the hinge.

How is your light suspended that you removed the glass cover?

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tetratech - Nice driftwood Chop it down

Wings - May I say CONDENSATION?

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I have a Coralife 130W so I have the legs on that sucker!

Maybe stick a small t5 set up on the front of your tank?

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Post InfoPosted 12-Feb-2006 16:23Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech - Nice driftwood Chop it down

My wife would surely have my head
Actually that tree is growing thru a 4 by 4 opening in my deck that of course is covered by the snow.



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Wings - Once again (in case you haven't seen my last entry on the previous page), may I say CONDENSATION? You are going to wreck the Coralife fixture. If I am not mistaken that Coralife explicitly states to use the fixture only with a glass top.

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Hey tetra, keepin gthe new rotala that height may become a pain, especially if it doesn't take too kindly to trimmings (i.e. wants replants all the time) I can see it growing a few inches higher, to the height of the DW, without taking away from the slope effect


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Maybe stick a small t5 set up on the front of your tank

I might do that, only problem is the inconvienence. Everytime I open the top I'll have to remove ther reflector.

I'll tell ya I might eventually decide to do a MH light suspended from the ceiling. The wife will love it in here kitchen

Nowher, I'll have to see how the Rotala W. does. Curious to see if it will keep it's pink color. It really looks alot like a pink Mayaca

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LF,

Thanks for the heads up with the glass lids...Going to have to do some thinking..Maybe I will just have some glass cut so I dont have the hing in the way.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
When your snowbound, not much to do but take some pics.

Here's some pics from above. First E.Stellata (or so I'm told) This plant was the best surprise so far from my online plant order. It has grown very well, both bottoms and replanted tops. Some have developed multiple leaders as you can see from the stalk on the right.



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Next is the R. Wallachi from above. Nice plant for a LFS anyway. I'm cautiously optimistic.



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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 03:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here's a closeup shot of the main area of the tank. The rotala r. is alittle unruly but you could see the mound shape of the layout. My only problem right now is the foreground. I believe the blyxa and other foreground plants aren't getting enough light because of the bowfront. It's either that or co2 too low, so I've started added baking soda to bring the kh up a bit, but my gut know is telling me it's light related and slow growth is allowing the bba to take hold. Although if I have bba there has to be a cause which brings me back to the co2 level. So we'll see.






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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 03:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
With the Rotala ind, turning pink, I would probably
suspect something other than the lighting. The Rotala
does not normally turn pink in less than favorable
lighting.

Frank


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Hi Frank,
Actually the lighting on the rotala I. and other plants I think is good, my problem is the light reaching the blyxa and other foreground plants in front of that big rock. It seems to be a dark area with the the current lighting setup because of the bowfront.

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Nice close-ups of the plants, tetratech

The Stellata looks very nice and full, should it change color soon?

And what are you doing up at this time of the day?

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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 12:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The Stellata looks very nice and full, should it change color soon

I really need to find a concentrated FE fert. I guess I'll try Flourish Iron for now.

Couldn't sleep last nite, worry about my blyxa and the 2 cherry shrimps I haven't seen since I dumped them in what a week ago.



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NowherMan6
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worry about my blyxa and the 2 cherry shrimps I haven't seen since I dumped them in what a week ago.


They're probably off getting ready to produce babies as cherry shrimp tend to do.



I understand about the rock shading the blyxa, but i think it's that and not so much the bow front. It's not as if the blyxa is right up the the front glass, it looks to be pretty much under where it should be getting light, it's just being shaded by the rock and the other taller stem plants.


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I understand about the rock shading the blyxa, but i think it's that and not so much the bow front.

Yes and no I think. It's probably a combination of thinks. Remember the light is coming from above and right now when I look thru the top of the tank. The Blyxa are in the clear, but because the lighting fixtures resides on the back part of the glass canopy the only way to get to the blyxa is on an angle and partially thru the main group. My tank is 15" on the side with the bowfront pushing out another 3". Another fixture on the front of the canopy would solve the problem, but be inconvienent. The BBA also affected the hairgrass I had all the way in the front that wasn't shaded by the main group.

If the cherry shrimps are off breeding somewhere I guess between ram fry and shrimp fry I could throw out my fish food.




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Hi,
I see the more forward plants are in the shadows. I think
you are right, either move the light so the angle is
different, or add another strip.

I tried both the Ghost and Cherry Shrimp. I even bought
the iodine that they need to supplement their diets, but
like you, I seem to have only enhanced the diets of the
tank denizens (Black Skirt Tetras, and Cherry Barbs).
As expensive as the shrimp were, I'll not do it again.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 17:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Frank,

The cherry's I purchased are quite small so I'm not sure yet what has become of them. I have so much ground cover that I bought a few amano shrimp about 4 months ago and didn't see them for weeks and then one day they appeared and are living in that center piece of driftwood with the moss growing on it. They only leave the driftwood at nite.

I find the amano shrimp to be bigger and more resilent than the ghosts.

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tetratech,

I saw 2 cherry shrimp for sale at my LFS this weekend and couldn't believe that they were even more expensive than Amano shrimp ($6 vs. $5 a piece).

Did you have the same experience?

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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 21:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF,
I paid $3.99 each, 2 for $7.50, but they were really small. Maybe too small because I haven't seen them. I also haven't research shrimp that much. I don't thing they fight with Amanos and Ghost because I have both in my tank.
The Amanos are by far the biggest and the only ones I've seen munching on BBA and other algae. Ghosts really don't do much.



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Ghosts really don't do much


Except,

Die quickly.

They supposedly have a live span of a few months to maybe (just maybe) a year.

That's what I have heard,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 13-Feb-2006 22:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
They supposedly have a live span of a few months to maybe (just maybe) a year


I did not know that

Actually this sounds pretty stupid but I bought 2 Amano shrimps and was so happy with them I went back and bought 3 more when I got home I realized they were ghost shrimps. I have seen 2 as of last week and I bought a few months ago so I guess they won't be around too much longer. The shrimps have totally different behavior. The amano stay on that piece of driftwood all day and seem to defend it against any fish that swim nearby the ghosts just run across the front of the tank all day. Maybe they die of exhaustion in a few months. And the cherry's either hide or became lunch. They were small maybe the fish thought they were "brine" shrimp instead.

Moral of the story is always watch what the LFS employee is doing because you might be surprised when you get home. A couple of times I got a few neons in with my cardinals.

Any LFS FP people, please don't take offense. Just like anything else, some LFS employees know their stuff other ones are just "there"



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And sometimes things just happen the wrong way...

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Did alittle trimming to the E.Stellata and the rotala r. to help reduce shade on the blyxa. For the first time I'm deciding whether I should replace my main rock to help with the lighting situation on the foreground.

What do you think. Keep it or change it to something shorter and maybe wider.



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Hi,
Actually, I think I like it where it is.
Frank


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I agree with Frank, it looks great where it is and the way it is. I also like the new trimmed look, the blyxa looks like it's getting a bit more light. You may wind up pulling the one closest to the rock a bit more forward if it's not getting enough light where it is though. It's your tank though so do what YOU like and what you think it NEEDS.

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tetratech,

That is a tough one.

On one hand I think the taller rock keeps the focus group nicely together and removing it can conclude in the group flowing into the rest of the plants and as such lose its destinction.

On the other hand, that flow might look very good as it connects all elements of the tank.

If you don't try it you will never know. So, you may want to think about the effort it takes to change it (and maybe change it back later), and if you conclude that it is not too much hassle I would say go for it

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Thanks for all the comments. The rock is probably overdue for a cleaning so I might try to take it out and give it scrubbing and I could play around with some other rocks. I guess what I'm afraid of is a chain reaction and I'll end up adjusting different things to compensate.

LF, I see what your saying about the flow and that's where the above might come into play.

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Tetra,

Some change can be a good thing. I think you're right on track with taking it out to clean it and seeing what it looks like.

To me it seems like you're moving in the direction of adding more and more different types of plants, and with the wisteria taking up the real estate it does, and serving a purpose taking up that real estate, that's left you with squeezing all these different types of plants behind this one large rock, or around it. Something smaller will give you more room to play with different plant types and to scape the plants a bit more.

I guess what I'm afraid of is a chain reaction and I'll end up adjusting different things to compensate.


Isn't that the whole point?

But seriously, the wisteria is taking up so much space and you're not about to rip it all up, and you need not worry about lack of a hardscape because you still have plenty of it. I guess I'm saying, I don't think pulling it up won't ruin the shape and flow of your scape


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EditedEdited by tetratech
To me it seems like you're moving in the direction of adding more and more different types of plants, and with the wisteria taking up the real estate it does, and serving a purpose taking up that real estate, that's left you with squeezing all these different types of plants behind this one large rock, or around it.

Nowher, I'm going to give you another and answer.
I'm trying to experiment with more variety and your right most of gets squeezed into the middle, but if you look where I put the rotala w. I basically cut a whole right in the middle of my wisteria slope and put it there away from the main group.

My other variable is that this tank is in my kitchen and it has to look good most of the time, so I can't experiment too much. LF is lucky his tank is in the basement and he can probably get away with more. The other day my wife looked at my tank and said "Those flowers (pointing to the top of the E.Stellata) are really pretty" My response "Aren't They" The fact that she thinks those are flowers allows me to score points on my quest for more tanks (with flowers of course)

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EditedEdited by nowherman6
but if you look where I put the rotala w. I basically cut a whole right in the middle of my wisteria slope and put it there away from the main group.


I know, and it came as a shock to myself and I'm sure to all other followers of Tetra's bowfront log My only oint was - which I'm pretty sure you got - that clearing the big rock out allows you more room to experiment with different plants without compramising the overall flow of the tank. You even mentioned a few posts ago that the rotala w. will probably have to be trimmed often to keep it from disrupting the flow created by the sloping wisteria. Redoing the hardscape in the center gives you a little more freedom, IMO.

The other day my wife looked at my tank and said "Those flowers (pointing to the top of the E.Stellata) ( are really pretty" My response "Aren't They" The fact that she thinks those are flowers allows me to score points on my quest for more tanks (with flowers of course)


What can I say? You the man!




EDIT: and welcome back to premie land, BTW


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LF is lucky his tank is in the basement and he can probably get away with more

Hey, my wife looks at my tank too, about once a week

I didn't know that your kitchen is your showroom where hundreds of people march through to view the exhibited tank

Your wife knows that things take a while to look good, just look at food in the makings - not the prettiest display. I wonder if having your tank not at 100% display level would encourage your wife to give you more input on what could be improved. Then you have to make sure she stays busy thinking about it and before you know it she wants to have a tank on her own, to show you how it is done (wishful thinking on my part - doesn't work here either ).

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I didn't know that your kitchen is your showroom where hundreds of people march through to view the exhibited tank


Lots of foot traffic with three kids and friends.
Hey, my wife looks at my tank too, about once a week

I wonder if having your tank not at 100% display level would encourage your wife to give you more input on what could be improved.




Then you have to make sure she stays busy thinking about it and before you know it she wants to have a tank on her own, to show you how it is done.
pause, catch breath



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And look at all these Gold Stars



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And look at all these Gold Stars

What can I say

I added 5 more cardinals to my tank and I now have a total of 20. Another 100 I'll catch up to LF's major school.

Anyone know the difference between a school of fish and a shoal?

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If you look them up in a dictionary they mean the same thing. A school is no different than a flock, no different than a swarm, no different than a shoal. We just use different words to mean the same thing when describing different animals. You dont say a flock of tetras, you don't say a swarm of watter buffalo, and you don't say a school of birds.

Now, maybe there's some specific difference when referring to fish but in my mind if there is it can't be a good one. prove me wrong. Fish that like to be with eachother school, or shoal, whatever. Fish that don't, don't. I've seen people say on other threads, shoaling means the fish stay loosley together, schooling is when they stay tight; bunk! Bunk I say! If they stay tight together, it's a tight school, if not it's a loose school. Just my opinion of course, but you won't catch me saying a school is all that different than a shoal, no matter what.


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From my deep contacts within the intellectual fish keeping communities:

Schoolers form a tight streaming flow across a tank, and shoalers group together, but don't follow a pattern.

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NowherMan6
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A silly distinction to make, IMO. I can make my harlies form a "tight streaming flow across the tank" by sticking my hand in there and waving it around. Other times they're at rest and feel safe, they just drift about in a loose group. Are they schoolers or shoalers? Same thing with most fish we call schooling fish. Neons, cardinals, rasboras - "keep in a school of 5-6" the story goes, "because they're schooling fish". Fine, but when a group of these fish are at ease they dont flow from one side to another, they just hover. Sometimes they try to school with their reflections in the glass, especially when introduced to a new environment. The more friends and the closer they are to eachother, the better. Tight schooling formations are a defensive thing, when they feel safe they split up a bit, it makes sense.


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The only time my Espei school these days is when I move fast to one end of the tank. Then all shoot over to the other end and eventually half of them return while the rest stays over there for a while.

the rest of the day they are spread out (if that is even possible with 100 of them in there), the leading males fight over who is the boss, and the rest just "hangs" .

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Post InfoPosted 15-Feb-2006 19:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Is it me or do fish school or shoal more in the evening.



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See,

I feed mine only in the evening and as soon as I approach the tank at that time of the day at least 80% of all fish are in the front left corner of the tank within a second.

NowherMan6, First Gold Star hm?

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EditedEdited by tetratech
From Univ of Montana Study:

Shoals vs. Schools

Shoal: a group of fishes that remains together for SOCIAL reasons

School: a polarized, synchronized shoal

In this definition a school is a shoal of fish when they form that tight pattern based on predators, stress, etc.

Makes senses

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In this definition a school is a shoal of fish when they form that tight pattern based on predators, stress, etc.


Ok, I can buy that but I still don't think it;s much of a difference, especially for the intents and purposes of our little tanks.


NowherMan6, First Gold Star hm?


Well look at that, I guess so Don't worry, I'll lose it next time I take the quiz


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Schoolers form a tight streaming flow across a tank, and shoalers group together, but don't follow a pattern

That univ defintions does blend with the original one, but I think the problem with the above statement it almost implys that we are talking behavior by species.

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Switching subjects, when I picked up my cardinals the other day I saw a 4" bamboo shrimp. At first I was like "no way I'm putting that in my tank", but now I am considering it. From what I understand they are filter feeders and just sift water for food basically. Probably good for GW

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Probably bad for your tank, or any tank that is

They will slowly starve to death as there is not enough food in the water column to keep them happy.

I think to remember that I read that somewhere

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From what I understand they are filter feeders and just sift water for food basically. Probably good for GW


If a 4" shrimp clears up a 72 gallon tank full of green water I'll eat my hat.

Definetely not my cup of tea, a shrimp that large should be served chilled, with a splash of lemon.


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Post InfoPosted 15-Feb-2006 20:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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They will slowly starve to death as there is not enough food in the water column to keep them happy

Well I would probably have to supplement with some food. But you bring up an interesting poing. Would the uv destroy some of it's food source.


Definetely not my cup of tea, a shrimp that large should be served chilled, with a splash of lemon

And I was going to have a tea party and invite you guys over. Nowhere your not going near my tank.

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Tea party? tetratech... I thought you were a liquid bread kind of guy!

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Post InfoPosted 15-Feb-2006 23:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tea party? tetratech... I thought you were a liquid bread kind of guy!

Absolutely wings, definitely liquid bread, but nowher brought up something about tea. I think tea and gouramis go well together - very graceful

BTW - Might be all the beer I've been drinking, but I think I see an improvement in my Blyxa. I've reduced height of E.Stellata overhanging the main rock and I've tilted my light toward the front of the tank slightly using rubber feet at the front the fixture.

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As most of you know, I'm going to try my aquascaping skills in an east african biotope. I think part of the reason for doing so is this tank. I'm actually pretty happy with it and although I will always be fine-tuning it I think for the most part I'm going to leave it alone. I will add more riccia to the front and try to have the blyxa fill in more. Here' some random current pics of different areas of the tank.



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Post InfoPosted 18-Feb-2006 01:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Pic 2

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Pic 3

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Pic 4

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Pic 5

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Pic 6

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Pic 7

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Pic 8

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Post InfoPosted 18-Feb-2006 01:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Looking good

That "stellaromatica" is coloring up nice. Been adding some extra micros have we ?


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Post InfoPosted 18-Feb-2006 03:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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That "stellaromatica" is coloring up nice. Been adding some extra micros have we ?

You could tell right. . I've been dosing about 25ml 3 week of flourish combined with flourish trace. Still probably need more FE. Do you know another focused FE source other than Flourish FE?

stellaromatica
Yeah that's what it must be, a hybrid.

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tetratech,

I like the pictures number 2 (mixed school in formation), number 6 (new plant sprouting) and the full shot at the end the best

Yeah, seems to be allsettled there, except for the frequent pruning that you still will have to perform. Sorry that I can't pull even with the African tank, I am in trouble enough as it is .

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Post InfoPosted 18-Feb-2006 11:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I am in trouble enough as it is

Aren't we always.

Don't worry even when I setup the 46g your still crushing me with total gallons. I think I need to move somewhere warm so I could have a tank in the garage.

Yes, I will have to prune alot, but it's not as basd as it seems. 80% of the bottom is made up of wisteria which I simply cut off and top that trys to resist creeping.
The Stellaromatic (as bensaf put it) is a thick stalk, so I think I have four stalk maybe five in all. So you just cut off the bottom and replant. The E.Aromatic has done really well. I only purchased one stalk originally and both th tops and bottoms have grown well thus far. But the top is very pretty and it would take a while for the cut bottom to look as nice. The rotala w. yes another stem, but it's in a very easy area to chop down. So that leaves me my original stargrass and rotala r. The rotala I've been replanting tops right now. I just don' want to take a chance so a little work there and the stargrass I did cut out all bottoms the first few times and replant, work there as well, but lately the plant has been given me multiple leaders so I've trimmed off the top right above the smaller lower leader and it's growing beautifully.





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Post InfoPosted 18-Feb-2006 14:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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That looks REALLY nice tetratech, bravo.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Feb-2006 05:57Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Matty,
Thanks for the comment

Please meet the shoal, school, herd, oh whatever
I'm really amazed. I've acclimated in another 5 cardinals a week ago all are still fine. I now have a total of 20 and have not lost one since my UV was hooked up.


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EditedEdited by tetratech
I thought this was an interesting growth pic of my E.stellata .

The two stems on the left of the white line shows replanted tops that have colored up and have one stem each. The grouping to the right is the original bottom of one of the replanted tops. It has developed multiple stems from the thick bottom stalk.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Feb-2006 17:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Guys,
Did some trimming and wc today. I pulled out the two major stalks of E.Stellata you see in preceding post and I hadn't realized how big these things were because alot of the length is hidden behind the tall rock. Here's a pick of one floating in my tank after pulling it out. You could really see the purple color on the underneath of the leaves. This pic is not altered. The stalk also has numerous side shoots below the level of the rock.



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This are some fat stems tetratech

Why did you pull them out again? And did you replant them?

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Why did you pull them out again? And did you replant them

I pulled them out to cut off about 4" of the bottom and I replanted the tops. They were starting to shade the foreground too much. I will probably have to trim every week but because it's basically one thick stalk it's pretty easy to do so. So it's 4 cuts and replant - done.



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LITTLE_FISH
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Nice,

So all you need now is a powerhead that blows the current upwards from under the leaves so we can see the beautiful reddish underside more often .

So, the general question here is (and it applies to my Althernanthera as well):
Why do some plants have leaves with red undersides? What is the point of this?

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tetratech
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Why do some plants have leaves with red undersides? What is the point of this

Bennnnnnnnnnnnn?

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Post InfoPosted 20-Feb-2006 14:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
Why do some people have blonde hair, heck if I know

In most red the plants the red color is a defense mechanism against bright light (hence the need for bright light to bring out the colors) it's some kind of change in the chlorophyll pigmentation.

Why are the red underneath, or purple, or silver - just to look pretty I guess


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maybe its so some fish wont eat it. The bright colored warning thing...???...??

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EditedEdited by tetratech
maybe its so some fish wont eat it. The bright colored warning thing...???...??

That could very well be, wings. Color is always used in the natural world as a warning system.

Speaking of bright light. I've pretty much concluded the front bow of my tank is not getting enough. I took a cut top from my E.Stellata and planted it about a week ago in front of my tank, closer to the front than the Blyxa where it isn't shaded from the main group and it really hasn't grown. The Stellata in the main group is growing great, which is right under the light. The bowfront design with the lights on the rear piece of glass isn't really reaching to the front. I believe that was a problem with the hairgrass and bba as well.



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tetratech,

Good idea, I guess that was a valid test .

Now that you know that, what are you going to do? Are you going to place a small light there as had been mentioned before?

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LF,
Well, if I want lush foreground growth I think I'll have to. My only problem is it will be very inconvienent. to have to lift the light everytime I want to get into the tank unless I could rig something that would lift the light when I open the top, but right now I can't thing that deeply about it.

I could install a hanging MH system above the tank, but that would be rather expensive.



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I'd leave the front open like it is, it looks good, and I'm a fan of a little substrate showingdon't misconstrue that if possible



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Post InfoPosted 20-Feb-2006 18:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'd leave the front open like it is, it looks good, and I'm a fan of a little substrate showing

Thanks! Yeah, I do like the way the black substrate constrast with all the green, so I'm probably not going to bother with a lawn on this tank. I've said this many times before. You can't be all things in all plants and fish in one tank, so in this tank with it's bowfront design this is what works. I would like to add a few more riccia covered stones that would add a little more green to the front but not take away the black constrast.


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Oh just read your post(same time as mine). Don't get a MH. You'll likely need two for a light spread big enough to cover both sides of your tank. This light really is much too intense for planted tanks, unless they are really deep. Plus they are expensive to buy, run, and get toasty warm.



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Matty,
Thanks for the inside info on the MH lights. I guess I'll save that for my one day 250g opentop.

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They do make legs for T5 systems. A t5 set up should give you the light that you need for just the front of the tank if you can make a 4' strip work.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks Wings. I'll have to look into that if I decide to add the extra light.

Almost got them all. Here's a pic of 19 out of 20 cardinals (unless LF could find the 20th)



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Not having much experience with shrimp, but I think this yamato shrimp is pregnant. The belly area is loaded with something. Even so, from what I understand the fry have to be raised in water with alot of salt and the calcium level has to be raised.



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The riccia continues to do well, although I think I might have seen alittle BBA. I did actually trim this rock a couple of times, but was alittle of anxious and I couldn't get anything big enough to use on another rock. So I'll wait alittle longer next time I attempt it.



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Tetratech,

Yeah, I count 19 as well
Plus 2 Rams, 1 Oto, 5 Pencils, 1 Rummy Nose, and one fish I cannot ID (in the center, above the Rummy and parially hiding a Pencil).

I also heard that Amano shrimp are not easy to breed in the community tank. But maybe you get lucky

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I only count 18.....where is the other one??

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NowherMan6
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also heard that Amano shrimp are not easy to breed in the community tank


They need brackish/ salt water for the baby shrimp to grow. Cherry's will breed in FW and can be raised in FW as well. Now if you can only find them...


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Yeah, that's what I thought. I fear the worst for my cherries. Haven't seen them. I don't think the Amanos would have eaten them, do you? I'm thinking maybe the Bolivians, they were very small.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Plus 2 Rams, 1 Oto, 5 Pencils, 1 Rummy Nose, and one fish I cannot ID (in the center, above the Rummy and parially hiding a Pencil).

LF, the hidden fish appears to be a blurred image of another rummy (see the tail) Actually almost all my fish are in that shot except (8/9 otos, 2 corys, 2 rummys, 1 card and 6/8 shrimp).

The store where I got my cardinals ($3 a piece ) has a great school of emperor tetras. I was tempted to add those in, but I feel they will just get lost in the tank with other fish I have of similar size and color. This store also has like 10 species of rainbows. As you could see from the cardinals prices he's very expenisve. I think he had huge bosemani for $40.

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Wings - Count the circles, 19

Yeah, the big Rainbows cost a fortune, tetratech. Remember that I paid for my juvenile Simple Neon Dwarfs $12, adults are $20. Supply and demand, man, they get you coming ad going.

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LF,

You the man!

My dwarf rainbows are 4 for $10.... that would be $2.50 each...

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Count the circles, 19

Now if you could find the 20th. . I guess he's off-camera. I have such a good streak going with the cardinals that I almost don't want to spoil it, but I will attempt to add 5 or 6 more by the weekend. That will give me a total of 25 or 26 assuming they all make it.



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Well wasn't planning this, but I was at one of my lfs today looking for some more shrimp (bought 2 more cherries and two more yamatos and this guy was all alone in the shrimp tank and I caved and said "I'll take him too" Nice little fish. It's a variety of honey gourmai, really nice color. I couldn't get the best pick, because he went into hiding, but now he's exploring the place.





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Another pic:



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Post InfoPosted 24-Feb-2006 02:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Pretty fish, tetra

There goes the SA theme!


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Your right, this does it fishwise, but I already strayed with some plants species and of course the yamato shrimps, etc. If Amano does it, I guess it's o.k with me.

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Post InfoPosted 24-Feb-2006 03:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Welcome to the graceful world of Gouramies

I've got one of these guys, your's has much better color though Nice fish very peaceful , always on the move hunting for something.

Like the new siggie too


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Yeah,

I guess you couldn't resist the grace and charm of the Gouramies, couldn't you.

He (or she, don't know if you sexed the little one yet) looks very nice .

Now we need a mate

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Post InfoPosted 24-Feb-2006 15:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the gourmai commments. I guess there's nothing wrong with having alittle grace.

Yes, I do like the way he pokes around the plants and marches to a different beat then the shooling fish.

I think it's a male based on the color, but not sure. There seem to be a few varieties of this fish.

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I am not sure if this fish can be identified by the dorsal fin shape, but looking closer at your picture it seems to be rather pointy towards the back. This, in quite a few Gourami species, is a sign of a male. The female's is rounder and shorter, although the length is really kicking in a little later (IMHO).

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Yes, I do like the way he pokes around the plants and marches to a different beat then the shooling fish


Exactly. My sparkling gourami tend to do this little thing where they move along a certain invisible line, move forward an inch, stop flare their fins, then poke at the DW/ substrate/ plant. Move, flare, poke etc. over and over. They're also the only species I have that consistently explores every level of the tank.

Take LFs advice on sexing them, the only way I can tell with mine is looking for their ovaries with a flashlight


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Thanks Nowher, I'll give it a try

How big do the sparklings get, this guy only gets about 2". He's really not much bigger than my cardinals, just more graceful.

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He's really not much bigger than my cardinals, just more graceful


Sparkling gourami aren't that much bigger than my harlies. Actually, I think the harlies are more full bodied. The biggest is 1 1/4, 1 1/2 inches max. They also like each others company to a degree. It's very neat, like schooling gourami

It's funny, I saw one very similar to yours when i bought the sparkling gourami, again alone in a tank with bottom feeders. Maybe they don't get them in in big groups?


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Might be, they didn't have any sparklings, but they had many other gouramis. The store I went to Aquarium Adventure.(LF has been there) had a 50% off sale. So the gourmai was listed for $4.99 and I only paid $2.50. The yamatos where listed for $3.99 and only paid $2 so it was a pretty good deal.

BTW - Before I went to the store. I did see one of my cherries for the first time since I put them in, so I ended up buying 2 more.

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Well so much for grace. Once my kids found out that this is a honey gourmai they named it Winnie. The pic of winnie-the-poo with his his head stuck in the honey pot doesn't exactly illustrate grace. Here's a few more pics: Not a bad fish for $2.50.



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Post InfoPosted 24-Feb-2006 22:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
And another:



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Winnie will just be its nick-name. In secret you can call it by its real name, Butch. Though that's not very graceful either...

If anything, don't think of Winnie-the-poo when you look at it, just think of Winnie Cooper from "The Wonder Years." She never got her head stuck in a honey pot, so that puts her at least one rung up on the gracefulness ladder


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Thanks Nowher, I would definitely say that Winnie Cooper has grace.

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Post InfoPosted 25-Feb-2006 00:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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He's looking even better. They are very feline in their movements and the way they hunt about.

It's probably not an actual Honey Gourami ( Colisia? Chuna) it's more then likley a "Sunset" color variety of the Thick Lipped Gourami (Colisia Labiosa). They are often sold as Honey Gouramies.

Real Honeys are smaller and squatter like squat Dwarf Gourami with more of a red body and black undersides.

No matter, behaviour wise they are pretty similar the thick lipped will get bigger though.

He (and I'm pretty sure it's a he) will max out at about 21/2-3", but they take a long time to get there. If you can get a female they will behave like an old married couple and go everywhere together Very peaceful, they just hunt and poke about 24/7. They also become very very tame and in time will gladly swim into your hand. At least they are easy to move they swim right into the net

Great fish I've always had a couple in my tanks for as long as I can remember. I've got one in there now going on 2 years.


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Winnie also seems to have the perfect camouflage coloration for your plants. If he (and I also think it is a he from the latest pictures) hangs out just between the stems he would be in perfect stealth mode.

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Post InfoPosted 25-Feb-2006 11:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the comments on the new guy. I definitely enjoy watching him move about. I'll probably try to add a few.

Switching to plants. I've trimmed my riccia covered rocks twice and after the second trimming I'm getting increased growth and I might be ready to try and harvest enough to cover some more rocks in the foreground. Interesting that the riccia seems to be growing fine in the foreground with the blyxa improving by still not really growing (although slow grower). I think at the depth my riccia is growing it is considered high light.

Here's a current pic:



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Post InfoPosted 25-Feb-2006 15:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here's a full tank shot from tonite. The stargrass is growing almost too fast and it's presence is definitely too overpowering. You could also see a third rock is now covered in riccia in the middle of the foreground. It's a little too centered in relation to the others, but I plan on added a few more butted up against the new one to create a multi-level effect.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 04:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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A closer shot of the main grouping. The E.Stellata is really a strong growing and is starting to push some other plants out.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 04:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Tetra, I have to say that full tank shot is the best I've seen your tank look

It no longer looks sterile. It has a warm full feeling to it while still retaining the shape and look you envisioned. There's much more interest now.

Is it just me or is the Indica the reddest it's ever been ?

I bow to you. Out of us all I think you have achieved the fullest most attractive growth on your plants

Give yourself one hell of a pat on the back.

For the Riccia it's not so much the centering that's the problem as that they go in a straight line. Groups of 3 like that should be done in a triangular shape. The center one should be further back or the the 2 on the sides brought a little forward. This will make a little triangle.
You can bring them a bit closer together too.


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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 08:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yes teratech

Looking very nice. I agree with you that the Star Grass is growing really fast and begins to tower over the rest of the center group. I love the closeup shot of that group, very nice that the caridnals also decided they want to be in the picture as it makes for a nice comparison of size .

One reason why the tank looks better now (not that it looked bad before) is in my opinion the fact that you managed to create a flow towards the center from your side groups, you did this in particlar well on the left side.

I am with Bensaf on the triangular shape thingy for the Riccia, but:

a) I wouldn't know where the 3rd corner stone shoudl go
b) I know this is only the plant's growout spot and you have a much broader vision for the Riccia

Anyway, looking very nice, but I hope that doesn't mean you declare this tank as done .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 12:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Your making be blush

Bensaf,
Thanks! I'm glad your proud of your "young" apprentice.
It wasn't long ago that I almost quit with planted tanks when I couldn't fiqure out the problem with my old 46g.
The rotala has nice color. It is a deeper red than the E.Stellata . I've also been replanting the tops more which have more color than the bottoms so that's keeping the color fresher. I guess the UV isn't haven't too much of an effect on the FE because I'm running 24/7 and not even dosing a dedicated FE fert, just Flourish and Flourish Trace. I would love to get some color hues out of the Blyxa, but I don't think that will happen with the current lighting in the front of the bow.

LF,
In my tank I actually think the stargrass looks better low and wide and really cascading Once it gets too high it opens up to much and pulls the focus off the more colored group. In your tank as others have said I actually think the stargrass looks really good tall interwined with the wood. I'm finding hte riccia a dream to work with. As both of you correctly pointed out the current position of the 3 rocks in not great, so I could simply pick up the rocks and move them around with no mess in the tank. The hairnets are definitely the way to go, so much easier than using thread.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 17:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Looks great, tetra.

The only thing left is to go all out. Get a bunch more rocks and a bunch more riccia. Cover them all and make a big riccia beach right in front. The rocks will make it look like rolling hills in no time.


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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks nowher,
I'm definitely gonna have some fun with the riccia and rocks in the foreground

On another note: When I was taking some of my recent pics I shut of the filter because the flow was moving some of the plants around too much and guess what? I forgot to plug it back in. So my filter was off from 7pm last nite to around 8am this morning. What do you guys think will happen.

1. Nothing
2. Ammonia spike
3. Algae Outbreak
4. Both 2 and 3



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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 18:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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1

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Man,

If you are lucky then number one will happen.

If not it may be 2, or 3, or 4.

Did you empty the filter first and rinsed the media (in tankwater) before hooking it back up? If so then I vote for No 1.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 18:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Oh tetra, when your tank is covered in slimy brown staghorn and thread alage we'll look back and say that your hubris was your downfall. Reminds me of that famous ending line in Oedipus rex.

Most likely nothing too drastic will happen. Maybe ammonia will register, your tank is so big and full of plant mass that I can't see any major outbreak happening. Then again, this is coming from the guy who had ammonia present in his tank and didn't know about it, so don't take my word for it...


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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 18:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Did you empty the filter first and rinsed the media (in tankwater) before hooking it back up? If so then I vote for No 1.

LF your right, I should have done this, but I'm full of too much hubris. .

I just checked my nh3 level and it was zero after having the filter running for about 4 hours. So if I don't get an nh3 spike does this prove that in a large well planted tank the biofilter contained in the filter is overated?

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
I don't even know what hubris is

Anyway, might be overrated when it comes to storage of bacteria.

May main concern would have been this "aerobic bacteria being converted to anaerobic bacteria based on lack of oxygen, which is poisenous to fish" thing. Not that I really know what I am talking about .

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Not that I really know what I am talking about


It's one of those things that people with experience talk about, but is rarely looked into but oft repeated by others. More knowledgable people than myself say this can happen, so I'll take their word for it.

But in anycase, the 10 pounds of wisteria in tetras tank provides quite a biofilter itself, so that huge amount of surface area in the cannister probably isn't VITAL right now. But when starting up a tank it's VERY important to have that space available, as well as space for AC etc. So while maybe we can say the filter isn't all it's cracked up to be NOW, this was not so when you were establsihing the right conditions for this wonderful plant growth to occur.


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EditedEdited by tetratech
the 10 pounds of wisteria in tetras tank provides quite a biofilter itself, so that huge amount of surface area in the cannister probably isn't VITAL right now. But when starting up a tank it's VERY important to have that space available, as well as space for AC etc. So while maybe we can say the filter isn't all it's cracked up to be NOW, this was not so when you were establsihing the right conditions for this wonderful plant growth to occur

A big yes! I think I mentioned in a previous post that if you stood my tank on it's side you would have a huge 4 foot wisteria tree that's has multiple levels that I'm sure is helping. That is what I'm talkin about mass,light,waste.

And a big yes again! The biofilter is a hugh part of setting up a new tank. And I use biofilter in the broadest of terms. Seeding the filter, seeding the substrate, adding large quantities of "weeds" both planted and floating.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 23:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey,

So I voted for 1 largley out of optimism. But I am wondering if the bacteria we use are really that delicate. That they couldnt survive a few hours of stagnant water?

Just wondering.

Chaos

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Post InfoPosted 27-Feb-2006 23:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Good question Chaos,

Once the canister filter stops the bacteria are deprived of oxygen since the o2 filled water isn't passing thru and they die off supposely within 4 hours or so. I don't know if bacteria in an HOB can last longer.

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Oh, OK.

So stagnat water without contact to air is bad because there is no oxygen exchange? This is why the canister is worse than HOB in this respect? That is good to know.

Chaos

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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 00:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Tetratech, I had the same thing happen when I went back home for a week in the summer time, my filter clogged up and quit working, when I got home I basically did the same thing, started it up again, I only cleaned the impeller, not the rest of the filter. Basically nothing came of it. You may want to add 'cycle' or 'biospira' whatever you normally use, but if your fish are doing fine then I wouldn't worry. The plants probably took care of any ammonia that the bacteria in the gravel, on the rocks and the plants and the glass didn't get. The last time I went away I made precautions for it happening again. I set up an air pump and airstone by each tank and asked my Mother-In-Law to check on the tanks, if the filters quit she was to unplug them and plug in the pump, then drop in the airstone, this would keep the water moving and keep the bacteria in the tank alive at least, as well as provide oxygen for the fish to use.

I hope the same thing happens in your tank, nothing at all!

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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 00:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks Luv,
So far I don't have any nh3 buildup or do I notice any fish problems. So I think I'm good to go

There's still plenty of things I haven't figured out yet. I mean I know what pearling is and too be honest my plants really don't pearl that much and the growth is pretty good although I don't consider pearling a true indicator of plant health, it's still nice to see it. Tonite I have alot of pearling on my stargrass as you could see in the pic below.






Attached Image:


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So,

Any guess why you have more pearling last night ?

What has changed besides the turned-off filter? If the answer is nothing then maybe you found a way to enhance the water-oxygen saturation by having filters off over night. This could be interesting.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 11:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Any guess why you have more pearling last night ?


The occurence of pearling is dependent on the O2 content of the water.
More fish, more O2 consumed, more bacteria more O2 consume.

Bacteria in our bio colonies are very o2 dependent, they use a lot. Tetra has already remarked on his preference for large bio media in his filter (a very good thing IMO).

Filter left off, a large die off in bacteria , less demend for O2 , water saturates quicker, more pearling. QED.

There was enough bateria on tank surfaces, plants etc, to prevent a major issue. Healthy plants keep the water clean and fresh. A dead filter for a few hours is nothing in a healthy plant tank. The system hardly misses a heartbeat. Lots of folks run planted tanks with no filter at all. Circulation and movement is more critical in our lovely planted tanks.


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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 15:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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....as LF adds another timer to have his filter go off for a few hours once a week

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Post InfoPosted 28-Feb-2006 16:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Another beautiful day in New York. One thing I've always enjoyed about planted tanks is that no matter how bad the weather is outside, within a few feet is a little tranquil tropical paradise (Assuming you have the protists under control! )



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Post InfoPosted 02-Mar-2006 18:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Tetra, you lucky...

Right now in midtown manhatten all we're getting is sleet and icy rain.

But alas, only a few miles away in LI there is a tranquil snowy winter wonderland!


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Post InfoPosted 02-Mar-2006 19:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Right now in midtown manhatten all we're getting is sleet and icy rain.

You and LF in manhattan....interesting

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Hey NowherMan6, maybe we should do lunch sometime.

I am in Midtown East.

I have no idea how the weather is at home (yeah - Joisey - tetratech ), guess I have to call the wife.

Ingo


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<--- midtown West side

Sure, sounds good... if only I could get out of the office more Starting to get busy around here, I don't know about anyone else...

Regardless, it's nice to know we can all enjoy our little tropical paradises in spite of the inclement weather.


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Using my thread to make lunch appointments are we. .



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Post InfoPosted 03-Mar-2006 00:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You are just jealous tetratech

You are sitting there way out on the island and the big city is too frightening for you .

Or is it Nowherman6 and I that are frightening, I don't remember

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Post InfoPosted 03-Mar-2006 01:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Or is it Nowherman6 and I that are frightening

I picture a Don Larson cartoon of Littlefish eating sushi with the protist collaborator. A very scary thought indeed.

Well the pearling continues unabated. This is by far the most my tank has pearled since its inception. This is not from a wc. The last wc was Sunday.

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Stargrass Pearling


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Pretty much this is a first, every species of plant I have in the tank is pearling. It honestly looks like I just did a water change. Here you could see a couple of streams of bubbles coming up from the wisteria. I did not prune anything either. These vertical streams are all over the tank to the amusement of the cardinals.





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Cardinals and Pearling


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Post InfoPosted 04-Mar-2006 04:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Even the E.Stellata got into the action. Might be hard to see, but definite pearling.

Attached Image:

E.Stellata Pearling


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EditedEdited by tetratech
And lasty. I was really excited when I saw the riccia pearling. It doesn't get as much light as I would like down there, but it's defintely pearling

BTW - Notice the BBA on the rock behind the riccia. See I'm not perfect either. I do have BBA on some of the hardscape, but nothing to get into a twist over. The plants are just growing I believe too fast to be affected by it. I might start dose some excel again to keep it in check.


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Riccia Pearling


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Yup,

Nice pearling

I assume this means that for the first time your tank has a sufficient plant mass to drive the oxygen to saturation levels.

Or you have a hidden air stone somewhere in there

The Riccia seems to require some trimming very soon though.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Pearling continues at a frenzied pace. This is a closeup shot of my stargrass with reflection at the water's surface.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 06:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Are you using the glass diffuser now ?


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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 15:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Are you using the glass diffuser now ?

Yes sir

Very good point, I've been using several weeks, but when I first got it, it was so efficient that I actually reduced co2 alittle from a fast moving stream to a slow one, recently I did open it up a bit, because I've been dosing alittle heavier because of the increased mass.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Some fresh pics from today:

I think some of the add'l "interest" is the fullness of the grouping and how they are now layering over and into each other.

You could also see how the blyxa have started to get fuller as well.


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Another closeup shot:



Attached Image:


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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 18:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Good shot of the whole tank.
You could see alot of layer, also the colorful
E.Stellata is really exploding from
behind the rock adding more interest. Also on the left the wisteria wraps around and meets the stargrass as it increases in height.

BTW - This is before trimming and wc today. Ideally the stargrass should be shorter than the red plants in the middle.


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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 18:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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A final full shot further away.



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Post InfoPosted 05-Mar-2006 18:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
I am thinking you should pull the dwarf hair grass(?) and just wrap you crazy wisteria around your center grouping. It would make it simpler and more united. I am thinking about doing about the same thing with my wisteria in my tank.

Nice pictures BTW! Your tank has been looking really nice!

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 02:25Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Still looking good. I won't say anymore, don't want to bring you unwanted attention from some of the more envious guys

If you could thicken up the Indica grouping a bit. The Stargrass and Stellaromatica are thick and bushy, be nice to have the Indica the same.


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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 04:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for your brief comments

Yeah the rotala needs to be fuller. I haven't really left any bottoms yet. Next time around I'm cutting the tops and leaving the bottoms.

BTW - Wingdsc that's blyxa in front of the rock.


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Ahh sorry!

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 16:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wingdsc,
No problem, sometimes it's hard to tell from the pics.

Anyway some bad news, not plantwise, but fish. My new little gourami didn't make it. I found it this morning.

I don't think it was water-related. The fish definitely had a hard time competing for food with all the schooling fish, but I don't think that's what killed it, because I did personally make sure it ate. This isn't talked about that much, but I notice a strong predatory response from my large school of cardinals. I did see them chasing and biting the gourmai. I believe when these schools get big enough they become bolder in numbers and take over a tank, in a smaller or similiar way that their cousin the pirahna does.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 16:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Interesting observation about the cardinals, tetra. I think you're on to something. tetras and rasboras and most barbs are regarded as peaceful fish in that they won't kill anything that enters their territory like a cichlid, and won't kill their own like some gourami and other cyps. But they do have a hierarchy and that madates some aggression on their part. I've also read somewhere about harleys being aggressive towards newcomers in their shoals, i.e. once a shoal has been established they'll sometimes reject newcomers. I'm sure there's a territory thing going on here.

As for the tank, it does look lovely

Just to further what Bensaf said, the red-circle areas below I think could use a top clipping/ replant to make them bushier, especially on the right. i think it's grown enough to give it a haircut, fill that spot out a bit. it should grow up again fast enough, it'll just be fuller. And I also really dig how the wisteria has grown up on the left side, it's like a little forest over there.

And Bensaf, come on man, grow up already. You're just envious of my ability to control my envy.



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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 17:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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This is before trimming and wc today. Ideally the stargrass should be shorter than the red plants in the middle.

Wow, you mean you guys don't read every word in my posts
These pics were before trimming and water change, so I agree actually with both of you.

Really liked the gourami, but maybe if I introduced 3 of them at the same time the results would have been better, but I'm not going to try to bring anything else in. I was thinking of adding a pair of apistogrammas. I think they can take care of themselves.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 17:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I was thinking of adding a pair of apistogrammas. I think they can take care of themselves.


Beautiful fish, and you have lots of broken sight lines etc., but would breeding rams and breeding apistos get along? Theoretically you have plenty of ground cover and hiding spaces for it to work, but in theory you should also have enough ground cover and hiding spots for a few ram fry to survive, and that's not happening to this point...


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Post InfoPosted 06-Mar-2006 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Beautiful fish, and you have lots of broken sight lines etc., but would breeding rams and breeding apistos get along? Theoretically you have plenty of ground cover and hiding spaces for it to work, but in theory you should also have enough ground cover and hiding spots for a few ram fry to survive, and that's not happening to this point...


Thinking same thing. Speaking of the cardinals again, I also noticed they were even more aggressive than the pencils when going after fry. I really believe the more are group of fish establishes itself in your tank the more they will defend that "ecosystem" as their own.
The apistogrammar which I would have to spend a future to get a pair I think will fear o.k. concerning all the rock work etc.

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Sorry about the Gourami. At least you got to see how great a fish they are in planted tank.

Hard to imagine the Cardinals doing them in, but I've never had Cards. The Thick Lipped is about the most docile of the Gouramies, mine will let rummies snatch food out of it's mouth.

They are also very overbred to get that coloration which is not natural coloring, it could have been just a weak one.



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Post InfoPosted 07-Mar-2006 04:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks Bensaf,
I was rather surprised because he seemed to be well acclimated but I have noticed a difference in my cards now that there are 20 in the tank. I did see him get knocked around be them, but the possiblity exists that he was showing weakness when that began to happen.



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Sorry about the gourami, tetra.

I had a female betta that died for no apparent reason soon after I upped my cardinal school from 7 to 12. However in my case the cardinal number also dropped back to 7 within a week after addition, so perhaps the new cardinals had something that infected the betta too. I also noticed that the cardinals were "bolder" when they were in the bigger school, always patrolling the tank instead of hiding among the plants.

-P
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tetratech
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Thanks upikabu,

So you've seen the same behavior with a large school. In my case 20 cards where there before the gourami was introduced.

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O.K. since LF is back I guess I'll chart some changes.
I couldn't leave well enough alone and decided to move the rotala from behind the e.stellata and give the stellata the lead role and move the rotala to a supporting role on the side to the left of the rotala w.

I also did a major trimming job on the stargrass, as I mentioned I didn't like it taller than the e.stellata in the middle.

Here's the tank last week when I got some nice accolodes.





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Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2006 20:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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And here's the tank today:



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tetratech
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Closeup of the foreground. Note the add'l riccia in the middle. I spread the riccia further in the middle forward by using a plastic grid and covering it with riccia and a hairnet.

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tetratech,

Looking very nice there

I like that the Stellate took over THE leading role in the main group. It has grace and color, just beautiful. The Riccia also looks nice, its light green goes well with the darker one of the Blyxa.

I skimmed over the previous entries from this week (too many right now to read in detail). Sorry to hear about the loss of the Gouramie. I have not any "bully by number" behavior of my Espei towards any new fish, but this may be because they are all larger and have no problem messing with the Espei. I am also thinking about adding a pair of apistogrammas to the tank, if I am ever done with planting the tank, that is . Do you think you may get issues with the Rams and the Apstios breeding at the same time? I could see that happen.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2006 22:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks LF and thanks for glancing thru my log. As you could see you didn't miss too much. Yeah I was surprised when I lost the gourmai, but as I said I've noticed the cards being very aggresive of late. Maybe they gain too much power in a large school. As I mentioned they are related to the piranha.

By the way some of these cardinals are quite large, pushing 2 inches. As far a the apistogrammas, I think the tank could handle the two types of cichlids. There is alot of rock work scattering around the tank and alot of ground cover. I haven't seen to many of locally, mostly some orange flame type for about $20 each.



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Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2006 03:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
upikabu
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EditedEdited by upikabu
Tetra,
I just finished going over 25+ pages of this thread to get some info on keeping Blyxa (which you added while I was away on Xmas vacation, right before your first Ram spawning and around page 25 for those keeping track ) - need to put some drops in my eyes now. So basically what I can gleam from your experience with it so far: no shading & no moving it around. Is that all? Does it grow upwards?

I just got some for my tank over the weekend. It was an impulse purchase at an LFS and hope won't bite me in the you-know-where. I'm putting it in the background for now as they were tall stems with multiple side shoots and I didn't want to cut off the side shoots yet (no space in the foreground for them anyway). I actually quite like where it is now and may keep it there.

Anyways, just wanted to say thanks for having the info.

p.s. This place desperately needs a functional search tool.
p.p.s. I thought it was amusing to see LF declared a self-professed love for blyxa just from your pics (somewhere in page early 30s). Wonder if he's still got the love now?

-P
Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2006 04:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
So basically what I can gleam from your experience with it so far: no shading & no moving it around. Is that all? Does it grow upwards?

Well Background/foreground whatever floats your boat, but really I've never been one to say this is a background plant and this is foreground it really depends on your arrangement. In my 12gallon I have wisteria as my background and in my 72g it's my midground, but anyway yeah shade sames to be a major problem. It's a very fragile plant and could definitely melt if not taken care of. My blyxa is still holding on. I believe it will grow bushier with very strong light and taller with less light. Mine seems to be going more vertical than I would like because my light problem is compounded by my tank shape. The bowfront simply has pour light going to the middle foreground. It's also the only plant that does get alittle bba on it, because of it's slow growth. Bensaf has had it longer than me, not sure how his is doing, in fact he recommended it to me. I really love the texture of the leaves and I should probably put another light on the front top of my tank to see if it helps.




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Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2006 05:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well after a visit to my LFES (Local Fire Extinguisher Store) and $10 bucks later I'm back in the co2 business.

One problem fixed and another reappears. I noticed a spot on two of my cardinals pictured below. It's not ich trying to determine what it is. And I thought my cardinals were made of teflon.




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Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2006 20:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Hm, if it was just one I would say perhaps it's just a missing scale or something like that, but that it's on both in the same spot makes me suspicious.


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tetratech,

From the distance it looks just like NTD, but I am sure you would recognize that one. You say spot, as in something sticking on the fish or as in discoloration? If the first is true then could it be some fungus (or is it encrusted)? If the second is true then it still could be NTD.

I must be shopping at the wrong place here. My exchange bottle cost $30 (including tax) and is from a big welding supply store. But it is the only store around that I found.

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Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2006 12:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
If the second is true then it still could be NTD.

Well whatever it is, it's even hard for me to tell looking close up I'm not planning on chasing the disease with meds.

As far as co2 refills, maybe the exchange program works differently, but $30 seems like a lot to fill a 5lb tank.
Maybe a piece goes to the crew in NJ - Bada Bing!


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Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2006 14:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well, I have no idea where the money goes, but somebody is for sure happy to do business with me .

About the fish: I am with you on the no-chasing-the-desease statement. Let's see how it develops.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2006 15:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks!

I should get my bigals delivery today:

Flourish
Flourish Iron
Excel

This will be the first time I'm dosing a dedicated Iron fert. See if I can make my avatar more colorful.

I might start treatment for BBA, although it's not out of control and is really only affecting hardscape. I'm also concerned of a negative effect on the all ready fragile Blyxa. I need to find if anyone else has had problems with excel and that plant.




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Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2006 15:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Just watch out with that flourish iron, tetra. I've had little outbreaks of hair algae in the past when dosing too generously. Bensaf will probably tell me that if I'm going to spread such crazy conspiracy theories I might as well go ahead and join the International Flat Earth Society while I'm at it... but a conservative approach can't hurt IMO

And LF, you're not alone on those bottle fill-ups. I pay $20 at the local beer distributor


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Post InfoPosted 15-Mar-2006 23:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Just watch out with that flourish iron, tetra.
Thanks! The bottle says 1 capful (5ml) to maintian .1 ppm
for every 50 gallons, so I dosed about 7ml this morning, along with my regular 10ml of regluar flourish so I guess we'll see what happens.

I guess I got lucky with the refill on the co2. I got it refilled from an old man who runs a small fire extinisher store and the conversaton went something like this:

tetra: I need a refill
old man: Wow that's a big canister ya got there
tetra: Well it's for a fish tank
old man: heh!
tetra: a planted tank, plants need alot of co2
old man: heh!
tetra: oh come on, you must get alot of that
old man: heh!
tetra: O.K, what do I owe ya
old man: got $10 bucks sonny
tetra: here ya go, see ya in 6 months
old man: heh!




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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 00:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I never had a conversation like that with the beer guys. They never ask questions.

The best was the time a few weeks ago when i refilled the tank but hooked it up improperly and all the gas leaked out over the course of the week. So there I was the following Saturday, another tank to refill, same place, same guy who helped me. No questions asked though. I think they just figured I was a drunk.


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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 00:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I get mine refilled at a local gas supplier. A little Indonesian mom and pop shack that sells o2, argon etc.

They don't get many westerners in there I can tell ya

It was the same shock when I told the guy what I was using the Co2 for. Since then the pop has turned up at my apartment twice to see this miracle that the crazy foreigner is doing.

Second time was to inform me that he bought an aquarium, he took some plants from the garden and dumped in some pupuk, which is the kind of fertilizer you'll throw on your roses and attached Co2. Couldn't figure out why the water was green and his "flowers" and fish were dead.

I tried to help but while my Indonesian language skills are pretty good they don't quite extend to the finer points of planted aquariums.

I don't open the door anymore and am looking for a new supplier.


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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 03:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Second time was to inform me that he bought an aquarium, he took some plants from the garden and dumped in some pupuk, which is the kind of fertilizer you'll throw on your roses and attached Co2. Couldn't figure out why the water was green and his "flowers" and fish were dead.




If only he had used a test kit!


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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 03:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well there seems to be alot of protist collaboration lately. Some have done this accidently others have declared their outright love for the little guys and others have been rebelling.

Regardless of the reason the show must go on: This full tank shot shows the changes I've made maturing alittle. You'll notice the rotala r. now is on the right side next to the recut rotala w. The tank is actually alot easier to maintenance this way with the rotala r more accessible. The rotala and the stargrass which were recently trimmed alot are starting to come in, but have some more growing to do.



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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 04:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Also this riccia stuff has really been a pleasant surprise. I actually find it very easy to work with inconjunction with the hairnets. Here's a closeup of the center riccia which is a combination of rock and plastic grid underneath hairnets.



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Looking very nice tetratech,

But first:

With regards to the previous entries.

Now to the tank. While on one hand I envy you for the completeness your tank displays on the other hand I am wondering what else can be done to the tank. I mean to say that your tank appears finished and there is nothing (major) left to enhance. Aren't you getting a slight feeling of boredom with nothing to do? As much as I would like my tank to be more presentable, as much I dread the day when I stand in front of it and think "what now".

Well, here are some minor questions/observations:

- The Riccia looks great. Given that you trim it outside of the tank I assume that the distribution within the tank of broken pieces is minimal. Did you find any pieces growing in your other plants yet?
- The Wisteria (in particular on the right) seems to develop a rather large leaf size. Is that just my old eyes or has the size (structure) changed?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 11:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It's always funny to see that one ammano shrimp sitting on top of that one DW branch. I know you mention it all the time, but still, there he is, sure as the sun rising

So last night replaced all the DW in my tank with new pieces that freed up some floor space for more plants and overall helped the scape. On the left side of my tank as you may be able to imagine I used to have that one suspicious piece of DW in there branching upwards. Well, i took that on eout and tried to mimic that effect with two a little bit thicker pieces. I stepped away and i thought, wow, that looks great!

Then I looked at the pic you just posted and realized, Oh, the reason it looks so great is because it's nearly the same thing that tetra did with his. Damn. Back to the drawing board

It does look very nice, and I like that the rotala has been replaced by that other large bushy plant. Same effect - adds a big spot of color - but much fuller


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Tetra,
Tank is looking really nice!

LF,
Scary thought of having nothing to change in a fish tank. I guess that's when you start a new one..

Nowher,
Copy Cat! I know what you mean though. After looking at each others tanks so much I think we star to play off of each other. It kind of goes back to does the real world represent the media or the meadia the real world.

(All I have to say for my currant situation is blasting black beard algae! It't not getting out of hand too fast but its just starting to bug me when I look at my tank close. I guess I need to make a rule where I have to stay at least 4 feet from it.)

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 17:57Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for all the comments everyone. The tank I guess is kinda complete in a way, but look I just moved the rotala r last weeek and I'm still tinkering with the foreground in the main area. Not sure how far I want to go with the riccia, because I do like the black sandy look and if I put too much riccia it will ruin that constrast, but building a carpet on top of rock seems to be within reach.

To answer LFs question about the riccia, yes it's easy because you just lift out the rock, trim in in a bowl of water and put it back in the same spot or move it around. It's actually fun to play with. The cut off riccia is then used to cover another rock and so on and so on. As far as pieces in the tank, yes there are a few pieces floatng around the tank, but nothing that is nuisance. Actually if you look close at the center dw where nowher spotted the shrimp you could see a piece of riccia clinging to it. I decided to just leave it. Speaking of the center dw I'm also getting the feeling that the moss isn't necessary and there would be better contrast with the green, kinda what happened in nowher's tank.

As far as the wisteria observation that LF made. It does seem that there are some bigger leaves on the right side, but I think this is a result of pruning frequency and where I made the cut. The right side get's prune more, but I think the support leaves under the leader have remained more if that makes sense.

Nowher, I wouldn't worry about copying my look. Planted tanks are rock, driftwood and those green things, rock and dw poking out of plants is gonna be in every tank pretty much so just do what works with your layout.

In light of wings comments I think a good theme song for the planted tank forum is "From A Distance" Bette Midler





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Post InfoPosted 16-Mar-2006 20:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
O.K. so I dosed Flourish Iron for the first time the other day. The bottle says dose 5ml per 50g to maintain .10mg/l.

So bascially without a test kit that means very little since I have no clue to what me fe levels are and I'm sure the test kits s&*#!

So anyway I dosed the 7ml plus 10ml of regular flourish so I get the other micros as well, but when I go the "Fertilator" and plug in the 5ml for a 50g it tells me that will give me .26mg/l That is 2.6 times more than the flourish bottle says, plus I dosed the 10ml of regular flourish which according to the fertilator gives me another .17mg/l. So based on my 72g tank according to the fertilator my fe level is .38mg/l based on the flourish / flourish fe dosing.

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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 01:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra,

Your sig has made your feelings on micromanaging macros well know to all - however, the question remains: how do you feel about micromanaging your micros?

From the looks of things you're quite open to it!


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 17:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Your sig has made your feelings on micromanaging macros well know to all - however, the question remains: how do you feel about micromanaging your micros?

That's pretty funny nowher, but a micro is a micro and a macro is a macro . Not that the .38 fe is incredibly high, but I don't like to go there in one swift dose. Actually the iron depletes very quickly so I'll have to fine a good daily dose. I think the fertilator is way off anyway.

Gotta go call all my LFS's and see what Apistos they have in stock.

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Gotta go call all my LFS's and see what Apistos they have in stock


Good luck to ya

LF certainly upped the ante in the Apisto wars with that move he pulled yesterday. Imagine that - going out and getting those pretty fish without even giving us 24 hours to catch up.. the nerve!


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 17:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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LF certainly upped the ante in the Apisto wars with that move he pulled yesterday.

Yeah well I guess he's living up to his sig

In honor of St. Patrick's Day I'm turning off my UV for the day .

All protist collaborators - As you were

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Who's The Man?

I am sure that there are many ways you can beat that, tetratech.

For one thing, I am still in shock over my sudden loss of German Rams a few months back. So hopefully I will not suffer the same destiny here as well

Another option would be to get the same fish for half the price, that would teach me a lesson

BTW, Double Red Apisto Agassizi sell in the store for $20 a pair.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 17:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Double Red Apisto Agassizi sell in the store for $20 a pair

Why so cheap? Those are $65 a pair at Drs F&S, plus shipping

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_Display.cfm?pCatId=1658


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 18:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Before I got my shellies a while back I was thiiiis close to buying a pair of a. cacatuoides. They, along with a few others like Agassizi or even Njessini, always appealed to me more because of their greater availability and the availability of F1 and F2 generations. It seemed like a big risk to take on a pair of rare but wild caught apistos, especially if things didn't turn out well. As it turned out, I wound up with the shellies, and then sold them because I was made an offer I couldn't refuse.


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 18:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The sales person explained it this way:

Supply and Demand!

They can have the Double Red every day if need be, not rare what-so-ever.
Mine, on the other hand, have to be ordered from a specialty fish wholesaler.

The sales person explained to me at least 3 times that this is the reason mine are so expensive. He wanted to make sure that I don't feel ripped off.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 18:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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But in all reality of things how much do you have into them. Did you basicly steal them because you traded in some of your fish that you may or may have not been planning of taken over your tank?

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 18:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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O.K. LF, so you want to play rough.
Here's my breeding pair of Neocaridina denticulata sinensis ($5.99 for the pair)



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Post InfoPosted 17-Mar-2006 20:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very Nice ,

I cannot beat that as my breeding pair of Pond Snails did want to be in a picture

But seriously, glad to see that the little buggers are still around. One thing about this photo: I thought you had Moss only at the end of one piece of driftwood. Did it grow down on that wood to its base?

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Post InfoPosted 18-Mar-2006 12:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
One thing about this photo: I thought you had Moss only at the end of one piece of driftwood. Did it grow down on that wood to its base?


Your powers of observation are quite amazing
You are right, that is not my 72g it's the 5g I setup for bolivan fry that I kinda started to scape. Details will follow.......

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Your powers of observation are quite amazing

Thanks tetratech

So, when can we see the 5G log? Even if it is not finished I would love to take a look at it.

And while you mention it, we haven't heard anything recently about a possible breeding attempt by your Rams. Wouldn't it be that time again soon?

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So, when can we see the 5G log? Even if it is not finished I would love to take a look at it.


Yeah, let us know. I want to know when I should start up my 2.5 gallon log


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EditedEdited by tetratech
So, when can we see the 5G log? Even if it is not finished I would love to take a look at it.


Yeah, let us know. I want to know when I should start up my 2.5 gallon log


Don't we all have nano tanks in our "closets" somewhere.

Should be able to get to it within the next few days...

And while you mention it, we haven't heard anything recently about a possible breeding attempt by your Rams. Wouldn't it be that time again soon?

Havent' seen anything. Maybe they gave up after two failed attempts. Although I did see them really color up last week so they might have spawned but didn't care for the eggs. Still debating whether I should add the apistos.

BTW - Water change today and removal and cleaning of centerpiece rock. Yes there is some BBA on it - I'll update later with the exciting results.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Don't we all have nano tanks in our "closets" somewhere.


I got nothing

Would I ever not tell you guys if I would be working on a new tank ?

And I doubt that I will have a tank to enter the competition any time soon. I just cannot convince the wife that we really need another one . And I also think an overhaul of the 29G will have priority, but also not now.

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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 19:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Compitition? Fill me in! Of is the the game of the mini tanks? I have one too! Needs some help right now though. I have some dream in mind but I need to go rock hunting. I think I found some on campus that I like...

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Post InfoPosted 19-Mar-2006 21:53Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Did a wc and cleaned my centerpiece rock. Look at the before and after.

I also just be coincidence developed a triangle going up from right to left, because I didn't clip the last stellaromatica stem on the left to make more of a mound shape.


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Yup, that for sure is one obvious triangle

Looks like you don't have much more time before you need some major trimming if you desire to maintain the "less is more" perception of the tank, which I think looks great.

How did you clean the rock? Just scrubbing or bleaching. Whatever it was, it sure made quite a difference. Overall,the triangular slope has reached a height where the mossed branch has been consumed. It seems like your tank does not only look nice but growth is also excellent all the time .

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EditedEdited by tetratech
How did you clean the rock? Just scrubbing or bleaching

I just scrubbed it with a stiff brush. I kinda like it alittle darker, but that will happen soon enough. After a cup cuts here and there I'm back to a mound shape (maybe a little more stargrass on the left and the wisteria needs to be a little shorter in the left back corner)

Right now I'm in a good space and I feel this tank is very easy to take care of.



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I really like the mound much better then the triangle. It looks much more natural.

BTW go look at my pictures!

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Yup, very nice

I like how the Riccia shines in the front, with its much lighter green coloring (or is this because of the air bubbles that are trapped in it) than the rest of plants.

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Riccia carpet, riccia carpet, riccia carpet...


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for all the comments. A few more pics. First here you could see a compare pic from lastnite and this morning. On the bottom I clipped more wisteria on the extreme left and now the mound shape is even more obvious, simple. The ricca doesn't have the false pearling from last nite in the bottom pic as LF noted), but the riccia is still a light shade of green. You could also see the difference between pm and am as the leaves are more open in the bottom am photo.


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Riccia carpet, riccia carpet, riccia carpet

Is that a challenge Protist Collaborator?

I actually thought of a good idea with the riccia, so I guess this tank isn't "done"

Here's a closeup shot of the riccia area in the foreground.



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And finally a closeup of the stellaromatica a la hudson.



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One thing I forgot to mention concerning maintenance. I recently removed two big pieces of hardscape to clean. My center rock and a few pieces of wood. These pieces have not been removed since I started the tank and I was amazed. No mess. I mean alittle came up but nothing that I even had to worry about vaccumming up. I reached a few possible conclusions.

1. I feed vary sparingly
2. Plants have been sucking it up.
3. Grounds crew has been working overtime (cory's, shrimp)



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Interesting

1. I feed vary sparingly - Poor fishies must be starving if they don't even poop
2. Plants have been sucking it up - can be, but isn't the generation of mulm natural?
3. Grounds crew has been working overtime (cory's, shrimp) - I don't think they eat everything, they are rather picky with their menu

4. Larger parts have been broken down and fell through the gaps in your substrate further down. Do you rocks simply sit on the substrate or are they partially buried? Does something come up when you uproot a plant?

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Larger parts have been broken down and fell through the gaps in your substrate further down. Do you rocks simply sit on the substrate or are they partially buried? Does something come up when you uproot a plant?

I'm not a big feeder. It's one of the most common problems with new and even some experienced aquarists. Less is definitely more here. Better for the fish and the tank's health in general.

I could be off here, but I'm wondering if the eco is better at breaking down this waste than say regular gravel


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My money is on ground crew. I'll be making a post later on this very subject. Just need to prepare some pics.

I'm getting envious from looking at tetra's gorgeous tank.

Time to pull out the big guns and show some pics of my own tank. I've been growing some Aromatica and Wallichii. If nothing else the pic will show tetra what Wallichii is supposed to look like . I've managed to grow it huge and bright bright pink

On the stellaromatica - I think I've figured that one out.
When I ent to the market (who know's these plants probably came from the same Indonesian grower Mr.Hudson buys from ?) They had , what from a distance seemed to be identical plants. But on closer inspection it was obvious there were actually 3 quite distinct species.
#1 was a much finer plant, thin almost transparent leaves with a very light pruple underside. I reckon this to be Limnophilia Aromacatoides (sometimes known as Gratiola ?).

#2 and #3 very similar in color and shape. But both had quite different growth patterns. One grew very straight and vertical with no branching. The other had a more angled 'leaning" growth and quite a few sideshoots. I reckon the vertical one to be the Broadleaf Stellata and the other to be Aromatica.

I would reckon yours to be (as it does lean toward the light and be more bushy) L.Aromatica.




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Bensaf,
Thanks for the comments. I am not worthy and only an apprecntice to "My Master"

I'm glad I could intice you into showing some more pics and I look forward to seeing them. I would love to know your secret with the Wallichii. I've recut mine and it is starting to grow in better but certainly not pink except the very tip so I'm thinking it's a lighting issue, but I have a feeling you'll tell me otherwise.


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It's a very picky plant. Way more picky then Macrandra IMO. All rotals like nutrient levels fairly low but The wallichii in particular.

I'd say at above 15ppm it stops growing completely

I've been messing around with nutrients. Part of the reason I changed the plants a bit. I went so high as to stunt my Ammania. Nutrients were high enough to kill a plant, but NO ALGAE !

I find with really low levels it gets dark red, high and it's a dull brown. The pink color seems to be when everything is in the middle ground. Of course light is part of the issue, I've got it right under the lights. But to me the pink is more of a nutrient thing,light is more of an issue for deep red color.

I'm running at about the lowest levels I've ever run at , at present - about 10ppm No3.

The playing around told me a lot , particularly about K


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EditedEdited by tetratech
The playing around told me a lot , particularly about K

What? That you need to dose "K" if you run N and P to low.
Yeah, that could be the problem. I've been running high for the stargrass and some others, now what to do? I don't think I'm gonna chase the Rotala W. by changing al my dosing. Have you lowered co2 as well?

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EditedEdited by bensaf
What? That you need to dose "K" if you run N and P to low.


Quite the opposite. If it gets too high there's problems. I've suspected this for some time.It's been quite the bone of contention in some places. But I mean really high.
It's a long story but if you're interested drop me a PM.

Have you lowered co2 as well?


Good God no Never lower the Co2. That's the one you don't play with. All bets are off has regards experimenting if the Co2 is off. 99% of the time what you are seeing is the result of bad Co2. It's the one given. Got to be up there no matter what.

Anyway here's a pic of the Rotala taken this evening

Attached Image:



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Here's one from a different angle. Side view.

Attached Image:



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Bensaf,

Very nice and colorful, strong as well.

Looks to me almost like a monument, some form of dome or stoneage upright rocks.

I love it, but given all your commitments on running things low - nah, no way I am going to get into this plant .



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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 15:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice Bensaf. That's certainly the way it should look.
So is this a case where "You can't be all things to all plants" I mean the stargrass is n hungry, my rotala r stunted when it was to lean in there. I have the aromatica a la bensaf growing insanely (I'd like more red).

Here's a pic of my wallachi when I first got it. It always cracks me up wheh my LFS sells hard to keep plants to "joe aquarist" who has no clue what they are getting into. Then the plant dies and the aquarist get's turned off. The store I bought this plant is a regular petstore nothing extreme.



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tetratech,

Yours are not ugly either . Rather than a dome their tips look more like spot lights, a nice appearance as well.

And of course Mr. Shrimp has to sit on his branch . Are you sure he isn't a plastic animal from your kids

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Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 15:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Nitrates seems to be the main one. It doesn't like too high. Up to 15ppm is ok. That's a fairly decent range that shouldn't harm the others. It doesn't like high K or Mg either but there's no reason for them to be high enough to cause a problem anyway. P , it could care less. Micros should be decently high also. So it's really well within EI range.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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So it's sort of like a (you know that white plant begins with an "M" where it's a good indicator of fert levels, even looks like the Wallachi.

LF,
No he's real, I'm not fooling you guys. I don't have the heart to clean that piece of wood. It's a heaven to the yamatos. All the good stuff falls into the are with the moss. When a fish comes to close, he even appears to swat at them.



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Bensaf,

Fish in your second picture. Brillant Rasbora? Sweet fish. I now have 10 in my 40G. They almost never leave eachothers side. Love'm.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Brillant Rasbora?


I see a Pencil and a Hengeli in that picture

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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
The fish that is almost dead center in the picture?
like this?

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 23-Mar-2006 23:01Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nope, Ingo is right, it's a Beckford Pencilfish. Although I do see the resemblance to the Rasbora.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Dang... I hate losing...

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Not much new with the the tank. Here's a current shot that I happened to like. I think it shows how nicely everything is blending together. You'll also see some add'l riccia areas at the base of the main rock. It's kinda shaded down there so we'll see.

I'm still envious of Bensaf's Wallichii

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Awesome tank!!! I have a 72g bowfront as well. It was my first tank and my attempts at landscaping it were lame, to say the least. I am going to do somewhat of an overhaul in decor, and now I am well-equipped with some great ideas thanks to you.

Excellent setup
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tetra,

What did you do for lighting for that picture. Things seem much brighter then before. Looks very nice!!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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tetratech,

from this angle the tank looks really full, in particular the main group. Is it reaching the top already? Looks very nice, seems like all you have to do now is to sit back and enjoy .

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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 12:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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rasboramary
Thanks for the comments. Good luck with your 72!

Wings,
No additional light, yet. I pic was taking move over the top so it made it lighter in the front. I am lending toward adding another reflector to the front to see the effect it would have on the Blyxa.

LF,
Looks very nice, seems like all you have to do now is to sit back and enjoy

Well, almost. It's about every 2 weeks the main group reaches the top. The Aromatica is definitely the easiest stem plant I ever had, because so much fullness comes from one thick stem. When I orderd the stellataromatica I only ordered one plant which was one stem, so everything is a cutting from that. So far it grows well whether you just cut the top or replant the top. If you leave the bottom you could multiple heads from the upper sides. Stargrass is still alittle work and the wisteria is the easiest way to take up space. It bascially can be shaped almost anyway I want it.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 15:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The Aromatica is definitely the easiest stem plant I ever had

Maybe I should give it a try sometime. I can imagine that you have to trim your plants rather often, with all this healthy growth. At least you have a situation where you don't have to wonder if trimmings will grow back in again as you have mastered this art for your collection.

How are the fish and what are the plans in that department?

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Post InfoPosted 27-Mar-2006 16:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Maybe I should give it a try sometime.

It's one plant I would definitely recommend if it works with your scape, which I'm sure it would. Stellaromatica for Apisto Fry -

Plants:
I thing I'm getting the trimming down to science, but we'll see. Let's also see if the rotala w. get's fuller, not sure if it will and I don't want to go chasing it with different fert schedule's etc.

Fish:
I haven't added more cardinals since I lost one, The two with the white spots seem to be fine and under closer examination it looks like it might be just a lose of color (I think nowher mentioned that).

I'm still thinking less species bigger school I think I'll still seek out an apisto pair in the near future.

BTW - I did lost an oto the other day. I saw it swimming eratically and I did notice bloody streaks near the gill areas, so I'm not sure this is co2 related since I have been pushing it to pretty high levels. All the other fish seemed fine.



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Have you tested to see how high you have beeen pushing your CO2? I had mine up to about 50ppm before the fish started freaking out. Right now I am not 100% sure where I am at but over the weekend my plants grew like crazy! Some of them doubled in size easy. Algea is gone as far as I can see. Life is good in the fish tank world. Too bad school sucks! I will post some pictures of my tank a little later.

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Have you tested to see how high you have beeen pushing your CO2?

I could be in that range, but who knows for sure.
I mean my ph seems to be around 6.2 and my kh is around 2.5 so that would give me about 48 ppm of co2, but it could just as easily be 6.4 ph and a kh of 2 and that would give me only 24 ppm.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 03:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I thought this was an interesting comparsion. Day 1 vs Today after a trim (Day 180 or so). The driftwood pieces have changed. Only one of the main rocks is visible. The rock to the left in the day 1 pic is still in there in the same spot. The hairgrass is gone and the Blyxa and riccia is in. Look at the small amount of wisteria I started with. Those were saved from the 46gallon brewery.

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Isn't it fun to look at stuff like that? Your tank has come a very long ways. Not that it was bad to begain with but look at how much wisteria you have now! Wisteria is just sweet stuff. What other plant can you buy just a little of and with in a few months turn it into many.

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tetratech,

Yeah, quite amazing .

Having had the same basic layout the whole time allows you to go all the way back and make comparisons (something I cannot do), and what a change it is. Only over such a long time frame does one really see how much plant growth has happened all over this tank. Just beautiful

But - Did you remove some of the rocks surrounding the main group or have they been consumed by the plants (I don't remember)?

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 12:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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But - Did you remove some of the rocks surrounding the main group or have they been consumed by the plants (I don't remember)?


Out of the 3 main rocks. The one to the left of the big one is still in there in the same position as Day 1 it just got swallowed up. The other rock on the right has been changed a few times and there is a smaller rock in there. One of the reasons I removed that rock is I couldn't get plant growth to wrap around the front of the dw as it is now.

Another thing too about rocks. Sometimes even if the rock get's swallowed up as the plant grows around it and over it interesting contours are sometimes developed that give the ground an interesting look. You can't see it from the pic, but on the left the wisteria is overhanging rock from my beachfront(also partially swallowed up) creating a sort of cave affect (similar to Bensaf's tank).



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What it creates is depth...

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 17:42Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Lindy
What it creates is depth...

Yes sir!

Anyway I saw this gourmai at pet***** (probably the crappiest petstore chain in my area. It looked just like the pic dark read with the grey/blue tail area. They had about 50 of them in a 10, so I was going to rescue a few. Anyone know anything about them. I can't go by what the shop says. What do I look for n sexing them?

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They look like dawrf gourami to me.. tetra, an impulse buy?? I'm surprised at you!


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They look like dawrf gourami to me.. tetra, an impulse buy?? I'm surprised at you!

You know me well. I didn't buy them yet?

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Ohhh, I thought they were in your tank already. nevermind then

If they are dwarf gourami then males should be kept to a minimum to keep aggression low. I was never a big fan of their colors either, seems almost unnatural.

That's why i like the sparkling gourami - the ones I have left, two of the three I think are males, but they never even so much as nip, they sometimes have a "croak off", then one goes away. If you're going for the small gourami look i would consider sparkling, or even female bettas.


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Yup,

I also think they are dwarfs, the one in the back is called "Powder Blue" and is a strain of the regular one where the blue stripes are enhanced. The one in the front seems to be a strain where the red is enhanced (although I have never seen that color like this before).

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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 19:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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So should I go for it! I was going to take three. What about sexing them? Another related question. These fish are at Petland Discounts, otherwise known as the Fish Cemetary. So what I'm trying to say is there are dead fish in all their tanks. So should I buy these fish. I know I probably shouldn't. Every store has dead fish that are removed, but petland I think saves on food by leaving the dead fish in.


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So should I go for it! I was going to take three. What about sexing them? Another related question. These fish are at Petland Discounts, otherwise known as the Fish Cemetary. So what I'm trying to say is there are dead fish in all their tanks. So should I buy these fish. I know I probably shouldn't. Every store has dead fish that are removed, but petland I think saves on food by leaving the dead fish in.


Well, it's your call of course, but I would rather not express my feelings on that store lest I be sued

If you're really into the dwarf gourami I think you can find a better store for them. Check out the FP profile for some info:

"Gender: Males are brightly coloured, while females are grey."

So I guess that means they're all male if they're all bringhtly colored? I remember reading somewhere that females were hard to find...

"Comments: Best kept in pairs. Colour variation are Sunset, Neon, and Coral Blue. The Powder Blue variety is often found to be less hardy than the other varieties."

So I guess my final verdict would be, stuffed in a tank like that, with fish that are especially e to bringing internal parasites with them, I wouldn't be so gung ho about introducing a couple of fish that have been feeding off of eachother to my paradise

On the other hand, you did get your bolivian there, right?


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On the other hand, you did get your bolivian there, right?

Actually I got the bolivian at petco. I could direct you to a bevy of "I Hate Petco Websites" but I don't think you want to go there. I'm just expressing my personal observation about Petland Discounts. I believe I'm allowed to do that! Thanks for your input on the gourami. I think I might skip them

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I'm just expressing my personal observation about Petland Discounts. I believe I'm allowed to do that!


Yeah, you would think that wouldn't you? But remember there was that store a few years ago that sued all those people for libel when they posted bad things about it on an internet board... so you never know these days. I have stopped shopping at Petland discounts for the most part for the reasons you mentioned above.


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yeah, I think I recall that. Good luck to them, but I'll express my personal opinions anywhere and anytime I want.

I actually went in there for some small petrified wood pieces and saw the fish. I usually don't buy livestock there.

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Nah, don't get them.

That is my opinion.

I once liked Dwarf Gouramies, but now I find them boring.
And in 99% of the stores they are all males anyway, as females are rather dull (see NowherMan6's entry).

tetratech - Pearls

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tetratech - Pearls


tetratech - Sparkling, Sparkling, Sparkling

Ya know, not for nothin', but I hear Pearl Gourami are well-known for their dislike of Wisteria...


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...are well-known for their dislike of Wisteria


So not true, they loved the Wisteria in my QT (not to eat, to swim around).

Pearls, Pearls, Pearls - much more imposing and not such tiny critters that may be mis-identified as Glass Shrimp


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Post InfoPosted 28-Mar-2006 22:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ya know, not for nothin', but I hear Pearl Gourami are well-known for their dislike of Wisteria

I represent the Wisteria Growers of America. We are not happy with the negative comments you made about Wisteria concerning the dislike of said plant by Pearl Gouramis. I hereby order you to stop all negative commments until this is addressed in the proper venue.

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EditedEdited by nowherman6
Negative comments were not intended towards Wisteria, but rather towards Pearl Gourami. As a representative of the Sparkling Gourami lobby, I urge a full investigation into the habits and attitudes of said Pearl Gourami towards Wisteria. I further urge that the testimony of LF be barred from inclusion in any investigation, as his care for his fish is so exemplary that Pearl Gourami in his custody could not give, in the opinion of this lobby, an unbiased view of Wisteria.


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You guys crack me up!

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
We, the members of the PGA (Pearl Gourami Association), have contacted our legal team to evaluate which steps can be taken against the above mentioned "Sparkling Gourami lobby" as their denial of the undoubted benefits of Pearl Gouramis and their grass misinterpretation of Pearl Gourami love for Wisteria is causing our members tremendous grief.

The "Sparkling Gourami lobby" has never provided any proof of their claims and continues to upset the GOU (Gourami Owners Union) which clearly states that "Pearls are by far the most beautiful Gouramis available and don't harm any Wisteria (most of the time)".

Ingo
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Resources: GOU handbook, 2004, Page 3


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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 00:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The top one is a Thick-lipped gourami , Sunset variety, same as you had before. The coloring is not natural rather a selective breeding thing, so there's lot's of variety in the shading and coloring.

The bottom is, as mentioned, a powder blue Dwarf Gourami. I'm very fond of Dwarf Gouramies, I've had some for years.

I'm a big fan of gouramies as you know so I'll stay neutral. I'll be the Switzerland in this minor Gourami war. Pearls , sparling whatever rocks your boat.We'll just have to wait for nowher and LF to stop trying to hit one another with their handbags



I think the powder blues would have looked good in your tank personally. I find if you introduce a few males at the same time in a big enough tank they get on pretty well.

Another option that works well in planted tanks is female bettas. You can choose a color that goes nicely with the plants you are keeping. Very much like Gourami, except they prowl around the tank like a stalking cat.



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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2006 03:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Weekly update:

I did a major trim job after last week's waterchange. I've also been adding 5ml of Flourish FE daily on top of my 10ml Flourish semi-weekly and I have not really seen anything reddier. I might try putting my UV on a timer for evening only and see if it makes a difference. I did ask Seachem themselves and they said if Flourish FE dosed daily the UV shouldn't make a difference. Still have a "controlled" BBA problem that really only grows on hardscape and some slow growing leaves of the Blyxa. You'll notice the foreground has changed with the Blyxa being pushed into the corners because of the increasing riccia. I really like the way it looks on the rocks and understand now why it's so popular. I also find maintenance of it extremely easy with the removal of each stone for a haircut.



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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 01:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Closeup shot of the rapidly expanding riccia foreground:



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Tetratech,

Again, the tank looks very nice (that's pretty much what I say every week for a few weeks in a row now).

I like your Riccia farm more and more as it is coming together now and not only one or the other rock in the front that has green hair. In particular, I like the group in the yellow oval as it creates the impression that it is creeping along rather than being isolated islands.

Ingo

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Riccia Foreground



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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 10:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks LF,
Yeah that part you circled actually is alittle thin still, once it get's thicker it will sort of form a wall on the inside edge of the rock beachfront with openings here and there of uncovered rock jutting out. It's actually fun to move the rocks around and see the effect.

One headache I have with the tank is the center piece of DW. Because of it's thickness it's a challenge to get bushy growth under and to the front because of shading. Right now the rotala r is in it's shadow.

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Right now the rotala r is in it's shadow


I assume it will not do too well there as it likes its light.

How about a group of Anubias in that shaded area? It could help breaking up the fine leaf structre of the other plants and function as an island in the sea of Wisteria.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Apr-2006 19:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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How about a group of Anubias in that shaded area?

Not a bad idea, but I think I've pretty much convienced myself that anubias does not look good in my setup. Although a much darker green than the wisteria, the flat large leaf shape of both might have something to do with it.



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Tank is looking nice! I think you could have a lot fun with the forground. You could have a nice lumpy/rockey medow.

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tetratech,

First of all, congratulations to the "Ultimate Fish Guru" status.

But now back to the Anubias question. Try to envision other types of Anubias as it seems to me you are focussing on the Nana shape. How about barteri var. angustifolia (''afzelii'')? Worthwhile to check out some images, at least.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
I continue to work the foreground by adding more petrified wood and riccia. Really like the contrast between the petrified wood, the riccia and the substrate. The tank is in need of a little shaping in this pic, but what I find interesting is that the wisteria behind the middle piece of DW isn't planted there. It is growing horizontial from a piece of wisteria to the right of the right DW.

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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 02:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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If you look at this closeup shot of the wisteria there is a big black space beneath it showing that the plant isn't rooted there.



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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 02:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well I think you've found your foreground ! Keep filling in the Riccia a bit more and you have a real stunner

Like the new location for the Blyxa too


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Thanks Man! I guess your seeing what I'm seeing. I just have to make sure the riccia is separated from the other plants by the rocks otherwise it doesn't stand out enough.



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I guess your seeing what I'm seeing


I'd just like to go on the record with this: I believe I was the first to point out how good the full riccia foreground would work in this tank. So that's LFs driftwood, now tetras foreground. You're both very welcome


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full riccia foreground

I think you said "riccia carpet" after I had already covered a few rocks in the stuff, but the history is all there in the posts, but I'll give you some credit.

On a different subject, I skipped two doses of macros last and kept up the micro plus FE dosing and I didn't see any add'l red in the wallachi, rotundala or aromatica. Maybe not enough time to test this. On the plus side I had no algae related problems either. This tank seems incredibly stable right now with the BBA receding as well. Anyone want to venture a guess?

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EditedEdited by bensaf
Anyone want to venture a guess?


On which ? The lack of algae or the lack of red.

Hell I'll tackle both

Algae: cleaning wood and removing mulm. Less organic carbon for the BBA.

Red: Light. The red coloration is a defense mechanism against strong light, the choraphyll turns from green to a red pigment. Let some hit the surface and see. Reduced macros,hmmm, see where you're going but remember intensifying red means low nitrates and high phosphates. That would mean somewhere about 5ppm No3 and 1.5-2ppm of P. Tight.



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Well,

I give all credit to tetratech, because no matter who suggested it first and who thought about it first he was the one who maintained his vision (something I don't posess) and made it real .

The tank looks great and even I believe I can see where you are going with it. Soon it will be time to enter one of the contests, if you haven't done so already.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
So about this red plant stuff.

I have Sunset Hygro in my tank. Most of it is green but the tops tend to get pink. I guess that it has to deal with the lighing thing then. I have no idea what my Nitrates are at. I haven't tested it since I got my kit about a month or so ago. So lighting would be my main key to get this stuff to color up then?

Oh fudge! to tetra! Oh you should hook up with LF and nowher at that fish store. It would be cool! I would love to do something like that but right now its not quite ideal.

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As I've said before, your tank continues to look nicer and nicer tetratech. I agree that a riccia carpet would be stunning.



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Post InfoPosted 06-Apr-2006 17:31Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Hey, FP friends thanks for all the compliments. I guess it's unanimious that everyone like the expanding riccia foreground. As I said before the addtion of bigger rocks across the beachfront was a big part of getting this look.

LF, thanks for the Ulimate Fish Guru comments as well as thinking my tank might be good enough for a contest, but some of those contests I see at APC, etc, blow me away. Althought professional photography and snaping that moment in time have a lot to do with it.

Once the hardscape is set, the biggest thing is the health of the plants. As long as the plants are full and growing quickly it's easier to experiment and get the look you want.

EDIT: LF I think your really going to like the diffusors, I get insane pearling now every nite around 5pm to lights out. I don't think I every got that with any other diffusion method.

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tetratech,

I agree, some of the tanks in these contests are awesome, but quite a few don't look as good as yours. From what I know, most first time participants don't win, but instead gain the knowledge of what the jury is looking for. Having a comment about your tank from one of these top notch people is quite an honor in itself (hey maybe Amano may say something about it).

I will try the diffuser on the weekend.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 10:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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LF I think your really going to like the diffusors, I get insane pearling now every nite around 5pm to lights out. I don't think I every got that with any other diffusion method.


Yup, once your plant mass increases enough that the plants start dumping O2 into the water pearling should really go up.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2006 15:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Update:

Tank continues to stay extremely stable. No problems to speak of, more pink and red yes, but that's about it.




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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 01:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Riccia continues to take the beachfront.

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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 01:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yeah, Bensaf I have Wallachi too, New York style () This is new growth after replanting.


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And finally a full tank shot:



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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 01:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tank is looking great! The beach front is starting to look more like a golf course but thats cool with me.

On the left side.... is that a moss covered rock or something of the sort?

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 02:28Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Wings. On the extreme left is Blyxa alittle to the right of that is another riccia cover rock with a little wisteria overhanging it.

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tetratech,

I know it is getting boring, but the tank looks really nice, what can I say. All things are coming together nicely, a good flow of plants is given.

About the redding of your plants. I know that you add the extra dosage of iron to encourage more red, but it doesn't seem to make a huge difference. I think Bensaf mentioned it before, but don't these plants need (besides the iron) more light to turn red? Have you thought about expanding your high-light period? I guess the potential outbreak of algae that may go hand in hand with a longer lighting period could be a show stopper.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 14:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks LF. I'm currently doing the highlight period for about 6 hrs, not sure if another one or two will make the difference. I think it's more intensity than duration. I havent' totally dropped the no3 levels while keeping everything else high to see if it makes a difference. I did skip a dose of no3 midweek to see if it made a difference, but I didn't notice anything.



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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2006 22:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think it's more intensity than duration.


I think you are right on with that one. The Sunset Hygro in my tank doesn't start turning pink until its almost at the top of the tank. Maybe I will have to try something crazy like adding a second light to the tank just to see what happens. Being I have one around.

55G Planted tank thread
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tetratech - Just be careful. There is no glory in competing with me on who has more algae .

Wings - You are loaded with light (3wpg) as it is, why add more?

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tetratech
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Well, I must admit I am getting a little bored as my tank goes from interactive aquascape to a "picture on the wall" that needs a little dusting now and then. Not that my tank is perfect but as LF has pointed out there isn't that much to do. I'm certainly not going to rescape the whole tank, etc. After opening my big mouth about the african cichlid setup I've decided to shelve that idea for now, partly because I made a big mistake and picked up a reef tank book. Now I'm tossing around the idea of using my old 46 gallon for a small reef with lots of live rock. I just don't know if the african cichlid tank will keep my interest.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Oh no, tetratech is going to dissapear to the Dark Side

We will never see him again in this forum . I know Matty wouldn't mind having a buddy over there, he once in a while complains that it gets pretty boring in the forum.

Well, if you have to then you have to . But promise me one thing - don't bug me with these strange names of invertebrates and fish and equipment that they use on the Dark Side, it always makes my head spin .

Ingo


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LF,

I know I already have a good amount of light but I was thinking of just messing around with having a second light run as a kicker for an hour or two. I want to see if this brings out the color in the sunset. Right now its not too impressive. I am not for sure going to try this but its just an idea. I am not quite sure I could get both lights on there anyway...

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 12-Apr-2006 14:25Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Well, I must admit I am getting a little bored as my tank goes from interactive aquascape to a "picture on the wall" that needs a little dusting now and then. Not that my tank is perfect but as LF has pointed out there isn't that much to do.


Aren't we a contrary bunch ? Things aren't going well and we wail and scream and get tempted to scrap to whole thing and go back to a plastic castle and hot pink gravel ? When it goes well it becomes almost too easy - 2 mins of dosing and a weekly trim. We begin to long for the algae battlefield again.

But I know what you mean. I get that way too. One thing I do in all my tanks - I always have one little area that's got good light , in the mid-ground that can be accessed easily without disturbing anything else. And I'll use this to keep one species that I can remove and change at a whim. It's also got be a place that changing a species won't throw the entire tank off balance scape wise.

I change the species here quite frequently to try to keep things fresh and interesting. In the current tank that spot is where the Wallichii is now. A few weeks time , maybe even saturday if I go to the plant market and see anything nice. I can easily whip out whatever plant is there and put in something else without any disturbance. This allows me to try all sorts of different species, it's still a bit of acvhallage has you can't just throw any old thing in, it should still fit and work with the rest of the scape, but it is a chance to try different textures, shapes and colors. Keep it to stem plants though, nothing that roots to deep to avoid a mess.

Ideally I'd love to try completely different scapes especially the more minimilist types, different fish mixtures with the plants, paludriums etc. But it's too much trouble to tear down a tank every few months and I don't have the time or space for multiple tanks.

Salt is something I will try in the future. Heck I could collect my own coral and fish here in the tropics. It's a fraction of the cost to do here, probably only 20% of the cost in the US. Wife is always asking me to do it, she loves them. But I've always been drawn to the planted side. Long before I started in this hobby, and i didn't know the difference between a guppy and a rotala, the image that wlaways popped into my minds eye when I heard "aquarium" was of a nice planted tank with lots of wood and rock, it was never a coral with "Nemo" lying on it

Guess I must have planted tank genetics


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 04:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Ideally I'd love to try completely different scapes especially the more minimilist types, different fish mixtures with the plants, paludriums etc. But it's too much trouble to tear down a tank every few months and I don't have the time or space for multiple tanks.

I think we're in the same boat. I feel like if the 3rd tank was another planted tank I would still want that reef one and I couldn't have 4 tanks. I do have a 5g that I was going to fully scape, but I think I'm going to take that one down.

I really like the complex interaction that exists with a reef tank. So much going on between the fish, coral, shrimp and other invertebes, you just don't get that deep in a planted tank, but you do of course get that lushness and beauty and when the scape really comes together, WOW.

I guess I could keep one area open for change in my 72, but I think it's harder because the layout really swepts up to that one main area with the aromatica and the rest really supports it. The wallachi I have really is there on a sort of trial basis in terms of location, but right now I'm just trying to get the thing to grow better.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 04:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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The wallachi I have really is there on a sort of trial basis in terms of location, but right now I'm just trying to get the thing to grow better.


Well if you get fed up with it you could try something else. You may be surprised at the results.

Don't know if you saw the winning tank at this years AGA contest? Quite similar in layout to your own. A big central mound of stems and wood surrounding by low greenery. Where it really became a remarkable tank was by the use of one particular plant. There was a green lotus plant almost reaching the surface standing to the right (about where you Wallichii is now)and solitary. It's a choice that on paper shouldn't worked, but it did, beautifully What would have been a an excellent tank anyway was turned into a showstopper by the daring choice of a plant and it's location. It added a whole new dynamic to the aquascape.

Who knows you may hit on something

While yes the marine tanks are more complex in terms of their eco-system and have colors just not capable in a freshwater set-up, I don't think they have the dynamics of the planted variety. Lets face it the marine tank appearance is not going to alter much, rock id fixed so the overall shape remains the same. Planted tanks on the hand change shape and appearance on almost daily basis. The lines and curves and shapes that can be created with wood and rock and different textures and shapes of plants are much more appealing to me then a cliff wall of rock.

No marine tank will ever be able to convey the same feelings and emotions as an Amano scape is capable of producing. And that's the real challenge IMO. You mention you're tank beginning to feel like a painting rather then a living entity. Well that was always something I told you I felt about your tank, a bit cold and impersonal (it's much warmer now )

Really there's not much difference between the wall of rock and the wall of plants . The difference is when you create something that's more then a wall of plants. To me the best tanks always have secrets or mysteries. The tanks that when you look at them you get the sense that you are not seeing everything there is to see, that there are hidden areas you have to seek out and discover. Amano is a master at this as is Luis Navarro and Oliver Knott. They look great but yet you have a sneaky feeling there's something even better hidden somewhere, behind that wood or piece of rock.

I think that's what make the masters tanks better then the painting look. It's the little indefinable touches.

Think I overdosed on the philosophy pills today


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 08:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Think I overdosed on the philosophy pills today


That was my thought even before I read this line in your last 2 entries. But, I am with you, except I cannot express myself in such poetic terms .

It shows how much this hobby is a match to your personality. And how much you understand about it. I bow in respect,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 10:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Wow Bensaf! Have you ever thought about writing a book? This hobby of ours is much more than just keeping fish in a glass tank. It is more like a secret ever changing art form. I don't think a lot of people get that. People may look at our tanks and go "wow thats cool!" but I don't think they understand the vision and comitment that goes into it.

Look at pictures of my tank from this last August til the present. We have all come a long ways...

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2006 22:13Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Don't know if you saw the winning tank at this years AGA contest?

Yes I did see it and yes the basic idea was the same, in fact I thing he even used stargrass as the support plant on both sides of the main red one.(Swear I did not see that tank when setting up mine). And yes, it was unusual the way that lotus rose right next to the main grouping almost in defianous of most aquascaping principals.

The think the tank was so crisp, so "perfect" that it was able to get away with that. It was almost like a zen garden where there was very little there, but what was there was powerful.





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Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 04:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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This thank?

Looks much more like LF's tank but he was stealing stuff from you....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 06:22Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Wow Bensaf! Have you ever thought about writing a book?


Hell, I'm Irish we can blarney on about any subject.

You want eloquence you should here me talk about a subjevt I'm really passionate about - like Guinness


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 13:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hmm... I think I just put sticks on the fire....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 13:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You want eloquence you should here me talk about a subjevt I'm really passionate about - like Guinness


Please tell us a story Uncle Ben /:'

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 14:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Oh no,

tetratech's thread is about to blow up with one single entry of Bensaf's Guiness narration .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 14:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Please tell us a story Uncle Ben


Yes, a story! Tell us again about the time when, years ago, you were out drinking with Amano and after getting loaded on Guiness you went back to his house and he showed you his fish tank, and all it had in it was a crappy pink castle in the middle and you said, "no, no... I'll show you how it's done" and you immediately made it into that giant beautiful tank he keeps in his living room. That's my favorite one /:'


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 14-Apr-2006 15:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
I don't know if you realized it or not when you started out
but keeping a planted tank, especially one looking like
the prize winners is real WORK.
When you guys started in on this it was all a learning
experience that allowed you to channel your inquisitive
nature and create something beautiful. Then along came
the algae, and later the battle with it and conquering
it, then came the CO2, and then the Fertilization problems,
and now you sit and stare at the tank appreciating
what you have, and now you still have all the energy,
and now you are looking for another challenge.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, could now
be branching off into the husbandry of the more
difficult plants. Perhaps creating "grow out" tanks.
Tanks of crypts, swords, or the Madagascar Lace for sale?
Read Diana Walstad's book and create one of them instead
of using bits and pieces of what she discusses. Building
the addition necessary for the new tanks, is also a way
to channel your creative juices.

You have found out what I discovered long ago. Once you
create a living picture, and you capture it on film, what
do you do next with all that energy? Amano built an entire
building and has a staff to continue with what he initially
creates and charges an admission fee, photographs and
writes books, gives talks, and goes onto creating more
tanks.
It's work, it's fun, and seems to create its own energy
that you want to continue.

Welcome guys!

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 01:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Frank,
Overall those are very inspirating words

Read Diana Walstad's book and create one of them instead of using bits and pieces of what she discusses.



Building the addition necessary for the new tanks, is also a way to channel your creative juices

Sounds like fun, but unfortunately my wife would have my head.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 03:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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No stories today boys. Going thru a hell of a time at the moment.

Even made the Indonesian evening news

No I haven't been arrested again

Was looking forward to a long easter weekend holiday. Left work on Thursday evening didn't have to be back until Monday. Got a call Thursday night that the second shift people at the factory were dropping like flies. Food poisoning from the cafeteria

All other management were on overseas leave, muggins here was the only manager around. Pandemonium ! More then 50 employess had to be rushed to hospital. Organisation is not something this country is world famous for
Had to close the place down and cancel the weekend shifts 'til we got a handle on things, find the contract caterer so I could kick his &nbsp; up and down Jakarta, fight off the press.Can you imagine the mess 75 people suffering from food poisoning at the same time makes ??? Luckily nobody killed, but still got a couple of guys in hospital.

Thank God, it wasn't the day shift. The big foreigner is famous for eating 2 or 3 of those catering lunch boxes everyday. I think I'll have lunch at home from now on !

All calmed down now so I'll be out working on some well earned alcoholic poisoning tonight


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 06:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Wow Ben!
Talk about the day from H...!
I'm glad to hear that everyone is going to be ok.
I gather that you will have new food vendors from now
on.

Tetra,
I'm glad that you took them in the spirit I intended.
Between you, LF and Ben we all have learned a lot, and
have been treated to some pictures of beautiful and
inspiring tanks, all from our own "FPers." We all reach
a point where we are just not "into it" and let water
changes slip, pruning fall behind, and just do nothing.
If we are lucky, algae does not gain the upperhand and
we can recover. Others, such as myself, are always looking
for new things to try, and new things to learn.
And, Yes, you are right about the wife. Mine is the same
way. Every time I get out the tape measure she knows I'm
looking for a place to put another, bigger, tank. Each
time I stop and measure, she is right behind me "No!"

Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 08:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow Bensaf,

I hope the Easter Bunny is bringing you loads of Guiness-filled easter eggs
What a hassle!

Frank - I am months away from achieving the relative boredom of a finished tank, if I ever will. So, no time here to try a Walstad tank. Not to mention that I am in the same boat with you guys. The divorce papers are already in the wife's desk and will be pulled out immediately when she seems me unloading another tank (larger than 10G) from the car .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 15-Apr-2006 12:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Been awhile so here's just a random pic of the tank. I have to say I think the UV is the key to keeping cardinals (in New York anyway). I still have 18 cardinals going strong after 4 or 5 months. I've only lost 2 of 20 since installing the UV.



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Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 18:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Hard to capture this, but here's a shot of the co2 bubbles rocketing off my spraybar from the glass diffusor. I've been alittle negligent cleaning my canister filter and it was definitely slowing down the flow. This pic is after cleaning. The bubbles reach down now to the riccia and float back up about two-thirds across the tank.

Attached Image:


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Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 18:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Great to see the cardinals are still staying strong Knew that UV would be good for something besides the green water - do you run it full time still, or does it go off with the lights? I can't imagine you'd get any more GW with the plant mass you have.

How long did you go between filter cleanings BTW?


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Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 18:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yeah, been running 24/7. I was going to do it with the lights, but right now I have to add powerstrips to accomodate another timer so I've been lazy. I would be curious to see if shuting it off during the day would make any of my plants reddier. I'm still experimenting with macros for that. I've been dosing Flourish FE everyday and it isn't doing much, so I'm currently increasing po4 and easing up on no3 - we'll see.

I usually change the white filter pad and rinse the blue ones every month, but I went about 3 months without even opening up the canister. The withe pad was pretty much mush and the blue was pretty nasty as well.

EDIT: BTW on the darkside I think UV usage is primarily to kill pathogens to protect the expensive and sensitive fish and not necessarily to prevent green water.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 18:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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BTW on the darkside I think UV usage is primarily to kill pathogens to protect the expensive and sensitive fish and not necessarily to prevent green water


Makes sense... but who knows with those darksiders. Fixated on pink blobs and dirty rocks. Weird bunch they are...


Whoops, sorry tetra. Almost got carried away there, forgot what I read above, seemed too unbelievable...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 18-Apr-2006 21:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Makes sense... but who knows with those darksiders. Fixated on pink blobs and dirty rocks. Weird bunch they are...


Why I oughtta *shakes fish at Nowherman*


BTW on the darkside I think UV usage is primarily to kill pathogens to protect the expensive and sensitive fish and not necessarily to prevent green water.


True 'nuff. If you have green salt water things are so far out of wack that a UV sterilizer isn't going to help much.

Now I'm tossing around the idea of using my old 46 gallon for a small reef with lots of live rock.


Yay. Do it do it. You won't regret it I promise. I've been enjoying every minute of it. There's ton's of ways to tinker - lights, plumbing, sumps, refugiums, Deep sand beds, protein skimmers, feeding corals, uber colorful fish(lots of options in your tank btw), inverts....the list goes on.

What book did you get tetratech? I bet you could make quite a nice aquascape with those "dirty rocks" since I've seen your work on a planted tank. If you have any questions feel free to ask....we're not exactly bogged down over there. Or shoot me a PM if you like.

We will never see him again in this forum . I know Matty wouldn't mind having a buddy over there, he once in a while complains that it gets pretty boring in the forum.


Hehe....I stop over now and again to say hi, and bug you about replacing bulbs and things of that nature.

*shakes another fish at nowherman*



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Play nice with the fish! They don't like all the shaking!

Someday when I am not moving every year I might try SW. My girl really likes it. Not quite my thing so I guess I will have to let her do it or it can be our project.... something like that.... but if we are doing SW then we can't have a fish only tank. Going to have to have some of those infections that bensaf knows how to get rid of.

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Yay. Do it do it.

Well tanks alot Matty! I'll probably take you up on all the help your offering. I am getting more serious about doing it. I just need to relocate my 12g somewhere else and up goes the 46g. I was going to use my extra eheim canister and buy a hang-on protein skimmer. I want to really try to create something with the live rock. I have a AGA 110Watt 9325k cf fixture, not sure if that would work for the reef, so I might have to change that.

Oh the book I'm reading is "The New Marine Aquarium"

LF, don't worry my "roots" are still in planted tanks.


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You should, it's fun. ESPECIALLY if your girl wants to help. Technology and reef system design has made it reasonably easy(though a bit more expensive) to have a successful reef.

Oh and leave bensaf out of this....you don't want to get rid of those "infections" at least when they are in the SW tank and are otherwise known as corals.



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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I was going to use my extra eheim canister and buy a hang-on protein skimmer.


Canisters are great for fish only tanks. You will most likely want to give it the can for a reef tank though. Nitrate factory. AquaC remoras and Coralife superskimmers are about the only HOB skimmers I'd even think about.

D'oh...I forgot the most important thing. The live rock will be your filtration in a reef tank. Along with converting ammonia to nitrate....it also has the invaluable property of converting nitrate to nitrogen gas. That's right, a well set up reef tank should have no nitrates, phosphates, or an excess of dissolved organic carbon. Unlike a planted tank, any one of these WILL bring about some nasty algae.

I have a AGA 110Watt 9325k cf fixture, not sure if that would work for the reef, so I might have to change that.


That's really not enough to keep anything but shrooms and zoanthiids, if that. If I were you I'd upgrade to T5 HO or MH lighting. If you go with PCs you will need to get a new fixture anyways, probably 2X 96W like I have now. With that you could probably do just about all soft corals, and some LPS near the top. I can get away with lps all over the tank because my tank is quite a bit shorter. I'm thinking of upgrading to T5s. reefgeek has some nice looking fixtures, or you can do a DIY kit into a hood. Just make sure you get individual reflectors for T5 bulbs, that's what makes them so nice!

Oh the book I'm reading is "The New Marine Aquarium"


Good intro book. That was the first one I read. Not too much info about reefs in there though. The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, though a mouthfull is a good book. Corals I think by Eric Bourneman is a good one, though very heavy reading. A little text bookish, though jam packed with info. Anthony Calfo's book of coral propagation is good too. For a fish reference, Marine Fishes by Scott W. Micheal is about the best out there. The same publisher put out a book called Invertabrates, which covers the most common snails, shrimp, crabs, and whatnot. I'd use the internet for figuring out coral requirement though, since this is an ever evolving thing.

whew.....I'm tired.

EDIT... links



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Bloody hell, you pop out for a day and come back to find that the planted forum has turned into Marine Central Evrybodywants to jump to the dark side. Where'd I put my light sabre ??


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Not me, I will stay in the bright light for a looooong time

Hard core planters


tetratech - the image of the CO2 bubbles bouncing off the spray bar: are the bubbles being pushed down by the spray bar (in other words, is the spray direction diagonally downwards)? I seem to have issues with way too many bubbles just passing by the spray bar and reaching the surface right away. Could you explain to me how you have it all set up?

Thanks,

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Hard core planters


Same here I guess, even though I was one toe stub away from trashing my whole tank, using every plant for seasoning in my cooking and selling the fish to market Cooler heads prevailed though.

Was curious about the spraybar myself, been playing around with my own setups...



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LF,

I am having the same issue right now. I just added in a spray bar on the left side of the tank facing the right side(river system, kind of). I find that a lot of the bubbles don't hit the bar but go right on up. In my tank though I have a good hand full of exploding DuckWeed that traps in the bubbles.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
the image of the CO2 bubbles bouncing off the spray bar: are the bubbles being pushed down by the spray bar (in other words, is the spray direction diagonally

Yes, exactly Although my return tube is hanging over the left back corner, the spraybar is actually attached to the left glass in the middle via a suction cup. It keeps it very close to the left glass, so not much co2 is rising between the spray and the glass.

After cleaning my tubes and filter the other day the reach of the bubbles was even greater and I had unreal pearling starting at 4pm. I measured my ph just before lights out and it apppeared to be under 6 (light yellow on test kit)



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Matty,
Thanks for all that info. Sounds like if I OverKill on live rock I can get away with just a powerhead and protein skimmer? Is that possible with a light fish load?

I guess I'll have to start another log or PM you for more detail. I don't want to upside my planted tank comrades . They have helped me so much

Bensaf,
I must admit I'm alittle scared I might mistake the foamy protein skimmer cup for a cold dark one

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That's entirely possible with a light fish load. Sumps and fuge's are good though, at least think about it. They aren't too difficult to do, and the benefits are good.


BTW - you'll notice that the skimmate is not a frosty beverage at about 6 inches from your nose....eww, stinky.



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Matt,
You aren't kidding about the smell! I hate that stuff!

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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 14:35Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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I thought this was an interesting pic (or I'm just running out of pics to post.) It's a topographical view of my tank. It reminds me of a landscape blueprint where they use different symbols to represent trees, bushes, groundcover,etc.

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* trying to invision tetratech standing on top of the kitchen counter, one leg on each side of the tank, taking this picture *

* now I am trying to imagine how it would look like if I try to do the same over a 6' tank *

I love this shot. It took me almost one minute to understand from which angle I am looking at your tank. Once I got it I was really surprised to see how little space is available for the smaller plants in front of the main group. I always thought that this is a huge area. Shows how well you planted it

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trying to invision tetratech standing on top of the kitchen counter, one leg on each side of the tank, taking this picture *



Actually took off the top and stood on a barstool (completely sober) and took the pic from above.
You definitely get a different prospective. You could also see how shaded that front area gets since the light is resting on the back piece of glass. I would definitely need a light in the front to get good growth from the blyxa. Goes to show that riccia really doesn't need that much light.

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Something else this picture shows is truly how much plant mass you are running with. That picture shows that you aren't just making it look like you have the mass.... My tank might be the other way around.

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Full Tank Shot from this morning.
I've been dosing up po4 and FE and bringing down no3 in an attempt to get more red in. I think I see slight improvement.



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I never knew how aggressive the aromatica is. It really pushes everything out as it grows multiple thick stalks. Right now I let it go to the top but cut some stems toward the front to reducing shading on the foreground.
You could also see how surface of of my tank looks after running co2 for several hours.



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going back a few pages to look at the colors there is quite a bit of difference. Notice where most of the color is coming in though. Right at the top. This goes back to the plants defence use of red.

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Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 19:49Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Notice where most of the color is coming in though. Right at the top. This goes back to the plants defence use of red.

Wings that's actually a good point, these two shots show growth over the last 12 weeks. Hard to tell if it's the change in nutrients or simply that the plant is closer to the top.

EDIT: 2 weeks not 12.




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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
these two shots show growth over the last 12 weeks
What - 12 weeks No way.

You didn't have that much Riccia 12 weeks ago, and various other spots in the tank also looked different way back when.

I guess you mean 2 weeks, right?

Anyway, one thing is for sure, plants are growing woderfully. Is there a point at which you will have to replant that whole center group or can you maintain it for a few months without doing so?

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Oops Yes I meant 2 weeks. Glad your paying attention to the details.

I'm still kinda feeling out the center area. The aromatica as I've mentioned is pretty easy because that whole center area is like 6 or 7 stalks with multiple heads now. The stargrass as you know is more work, but bascially if the stem has multiple heads I cut off the taller one, because whenever I think it's too tall. If there's only one head then yes I'm doing what your doing and pulling them out and cutting the base.

Lately It seems like I've been alternating weeks with trimming - One week stargrass next aromatica, but it really depends on what I see.



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That is kind of what I am doing too. Cut this one week cut that the next. You aren't changing too much at one time that way. Good catch on the details LF!

I will post some pictures of my tank in a bit! Better look out!

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Well since my last pic got lost. Here's a shot from tonite.
Didn't have the heart to cut the aromatica yet. This plant is a monster.







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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
This plant is a monster

I guess this is the time when you wish your tank would be much taller

Yup, tetratech, growth is as lush as usual, but it also looks like the Wisteria is maybe betting a little too full, can that be?

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but it also looks like the Wisteria is maybe betting a little too full, can that be?

Yeah definitely some areas that a revolting and try to grow vertically I guess I'll have to crack the wrap

Tank is definitely due for a major shaping although it has it's appeal this way as well, but I notice that the riccia is challenged this way.

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Didn't have the heart to cut the aromatica yet.

Tetra if you don't look out you are going to have giant hygro syndrome. Maybe you should have got the 80 bow?
Wisteria is maybe betting a little too full

The wisteria is looking quite thick. Here is the question though... Are you going to actually thin it out or just shape it by cutting it down.


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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 14:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra if you don't look out you are going to have giant hygro syndrome. Maybe you should have got the 80 bow?

What is that tank a little taller than mine?

The wisteria is looking quite thick. Here is the question though... Are you going to actually thin it out or just shape it by cutting it down.

What and mess around with my main biofilter. That's like taking live rock out of a reef tank

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What is that tank a little taller than mine?


Same tank just 8 gallons taller. Kind of tall for me though. It think they are the same hight as a 90 or 110.

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What and mess around with my main biofilter. That's like taking live rock out of a reef tank


To answer your question Wings, I'll probably trim a down and remove anything that doesn't look healthy in the lower levels. I'm not planning on uprooting or anything like that.

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That is kind of what I was guess.

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Did a major trim job on the aromatica list nite. These are the stems I couldn't fit in.



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Sell 'em baby!

And where's the full frontal tank shot?


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Sell 'em baby!

How much you think there worth? I think I payed $3.49 a stem online.

It's hard to get a good shot right now because of the sun in my kitchen.

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O.K. full tank shot comparing before and after major trim

Obviously the rotala and wallachi needs to be trimmed as well. The Wallachi is growing better since backing off no3 and adding more po4/micros, but it's still growing leggy so must be a light issue (Bensaf chime in any time)

One issue I have with my tank is the center DW. It's very wide and it doesn't allow me to "lush up" the area under and around it as much as I would like because of the shade issues.

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Nice cuttings. I would assume that you don't get more than $1.50 per stem in an LFS in store credit though. Not because they are not nice, but because there has to be a margin for the dealer. Maybe you get more if you have an established relationship with them.

Tank after trimming looks nice, but the picture comparison is unfair. It appears almost as if the Wisteria in the new shot is taller than in the old one. Eventually I figured out that you do not show the full height of the tanK (as there is no content up there).

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Actually in that pic I don't think I trimmed really anything from the wisteria. The stargrass and aromatica exhausted me. Hey maybe I'll get some algae for doing too much.

$1.50 per stem in credit - I'll take it. I actually started the whole aromatica thing with one stem.

How much for creeping wisteria?

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How much for creeping wisteria?

A fortune

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A fortune

Tetratech and I are going to be rich then. How much do I owe you again for your wipe?

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(Bensaf chime in any time)


Could be light. It also looks quite thin, you've never mentioned trimming it and looking by the pics it also seems to grow quite slow for you. Should be a real quick grower.

On the other hand your Aromatica is growing way better then mine Your's is much fuller and redder, mine is very wimpy compared to yours. Actually my new growth is coming out very bright green and almost white, may need a bit more calcium. Even right at the surface it's still green not so much as a hint of red.

I'd rather have the healthy lush Aromatica then the Wallichii, so I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.


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Tetra,
The big piece of DW on the mid-right. Did you make it more vertical?

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Could be light. It also looks quite thin, you've never mentioned trimming it and looking by the pics it also seems to grow quite slow for you. Should be a real quick grower.

Actually I've replanted the tops at least 3 times. Does look alittle better each time. Light probably major factor, but plants do adjust within a certain range to conditions, don't they?

On the other hand your Aromatica is growing way better then mine Your's is much fuller and redder, mine is very wimpy compared to yours. Actually my new growth is coming out very bright green and almost white, may need a bit more calcium. Even right at the surface it's still green not so much as a hint of red.

That is strange. I think I have more light than you, but why is your Wallachi better. . Maybe traces in your water supply favors one over the other?

Wings,
Sometimes the center DW falls slightly so when I readjust it, it might be higher or lower - good catch!

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Here's the latest full tank shot taken around 7pm EST.
I did a big trim job and water change on last Thursday before my trip.




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Tetra,
Tank looks really super great. Love the trim job!

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As usual, very nice tetratech,

To me it seems almost as if you are moving towards a triangular shape now. High on the left and falling almost in a straight line down towards the right. Except for the low area all the way on the left.

And - we need more Riccia

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Thanks!

No, definitely not moving toward triangle. I guess I need to get the wisteria and/or stargrass alittle fuller and sloped on the left. Not sure anymore how much the wallachi fits in. In terms of aestitics it would look cleaner without it, but we'll see. Here's a pic of the wallachi about a month ago and now. I'm trying to see if it's getting any fuller. Here to get a perfect comparsion but look at each stem.



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tetratech,

Nice comparison shot

To me, it does not look any fuller, when looking at each stem seperately. Overall, the gap between leaves seems about the same, the leaf thickness and length seems the same as well (although the new picture makes them appear thinner, as it was taken from further away). It definately is redder though.

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You might be right, Definitely alittle reddier. It might be wishful thinking, but I think I see more leaves between the nodes, but I might be

Here's a pic of the main center. My wife still thinks the aromatica tops are flowers

As the aromatica grows it grows horizontially and when the stem is exposed this way new headers come out. It's still quite full after all that trimming I did last week as new heads pop up. All this was from one stem originally ordered.

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Beautiful tetratech

Let her believe they are flowers, there is nothing wrong with that. Whatever makes the lady happy and associates her with the hobby is a good thing.

Well, not to be conpetitive, but all my Star Grass is from 4 rotting stems that I "rescued" at the LFS about 10 months ago, then had it in my 29G for about 4 months with little to no success (either to dark where they were located and also the platies see it as food), then it moved to the 20G where it grew strong for a while, and then one tiny bush of maybe 3 stems moved to the big tank - and you know how it is now .

I guess if you can wait out the period of multiplication and if your tank conditions are right one would be able to do this with all kinds of plants (although one would have to wait forever to grow a farm of Anubias from only one ). The problem is the "meantime", keeping the tank sufficiently filled with "weeds" until the desired plants are strong enough in numbers.

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Let her believe they are flowers, there is nothing wrong with that. Whatever makes the lady happy and associates her with the hobby is a good thing.

I couldn't agree more

Well, not to be conpetitive, but all my Star Grass is from 4 rotting stems that I "rescued" at the LFS about 10 months ago, then had it in my 29G for about 4 months with little to no success (either to dark where they were located and also the platies see it as food), then it moved to the 20G where it grew strong for a while, and then one tiny bush of maybe 3 stems moved to the big tank - and you know how it is now .

I find it very satisfying when that happens. A tiny little piece becomes in both our cases the center piece of our tanks.

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Here's a current pic from last nite. Not much new too report. Shading on the foreground is definitely an issue as I believe it slows growth and opens door for alittle bba to make it's way onto the plants in the foreground.

I'm also considering finding branchy lighter pieces and replacing the bulking driftwood I have. These big pieces also make keeping the center full of lush plants.



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Well it appears I'm having a log discussion with myself. Maybe its run it's course and it's time to start my darkside log Anyhoo I did make a few changes.

1. Removed large DW piece and replaced with smaller branchy piece. I found the original DW was producing a fair amount of shading and I already notice the riccia is growing faster after a few days. I will probably try to find slender left and right DW pieces to keep it similiar.
I might even replace the center rock with a somewhat shorter piece to help with light somemore.

2. Placed wisteria right to the edge of the center rock on both left and right. It makes the tank looker fuller I think and hides some stems.

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EditedEdited by slickrb
That looks really good. Removing the big piece of driftwood seems to make the tank feel more open as well. I like how you almost seem to make the westeria a carpet!

Looks good.



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Tetra,

Welcome to my world. I swore I was just talking to myself most of the time.

I really like the new DW. It looks quite nice. Any close ups?

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tetra, buddy, how can we comment on perfection? I suggest you enter into a Zen-like state and appreciate the beauty of your creation... then start a new tank and new log of course.


Back in the saddle!
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for all the comments. Yes the smaller DW definitely opens the tank more and creates more opportunity to layer the plants.

tetra, buddy, how can we comment on perfection? I suggest you enter into a Zen-like state and appreciate the beauty of your creation... then start a new tank and new log of course.

Sounds good Nowher, but if I go into a Zen-like state in front of my tank that's in my kitchen my wife will be laughing all the way to the attorney.

Wings here's a closer shot of the center.


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Thanks for the picture tetra! Its very nice. I would add in some more pieces. Would look really great!

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Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 03:51Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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An interesting thing happened when I tried to acclimate 5 new cardinals to my current school/shoal/herd/pack/pride (oh you get the point) of 18 cardinals.

I floated and blending in water over the course of 2 hours (too tired to do the drip method). After this time I netted two of the cardinals in the bag and put them in the tank. Within 30 seconds they were gasping at the surface. I immediately netted them back into the bag with the other three cardinals and within a few minutes they made a complete recovery.

The new cards were obviously reacting to the high co2 in the tank. It also didn't help that I was doing this right before lights out and the co2 was probably at it's highest.
All the other cardinals in the tank are fine and goes to show very clearly how fish can tolerate alot if changes come slowly over a prolonged period of time.

I ended up keeping the cardinals in the bag till 1 am (about 5 hours) while I did a 10% water change and waited for the ph to come up a bit. They were then acclimated and all are fine.

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That is pretty true. A drip method would have probably worked best. Glad everything worked out well.

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Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 23:39Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

I am so sorry to have neglected your log for that last few days, but I have 2 excuses:

1) I was rather busy with the collection of random thoughts (aka equipment identification) for my new tank

2) For some odd reason, your log didn't show up in my Active Threads and I basically assumed there were no new entries. I wonder if this is a random site behavior or if there is a rule for active threads that I am not aware of.

Anyway, you will not have to talk to yourself, we are here for you

I like the new look, it sure makes the main group appear larger. I am a little worried that the new wood is too short and may become less visible when the Wisteria is growing taller.

Glad to hear that the new layout helps the Riccia as I am sure that even more of it can significantly enhance the foreground.

That's it for now,

Ingo


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Well LF so nice of you to stop in. Can I get you something? Those are very legimitate excuses

Anyway thanks for the comments. Yeah the new dw is small and I am in search of some new pieces. It's amazing how much brighter my tank is. I might decide to even replace the center rock with something alittle shorter. If I don't like the way it looks I have plenty of pics to recreate the old look.

Excuse me as I go back to humming "Rainy days and Mondays"

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Those are very legimitate excuses
Glad you see it that way

Anyway, I was giving your latest Cardinal additions some more thought. I am rather surprised that they would be gasping at the surface. Yeah, your CO2 may be pretty high at that time of the day, but shouldn't your O2 be very high as well?

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EditedEdited by slickrb
Ingo,

I'm not sure it works this way. Chemicals always move across a barrier from High Concentration to low concentration. When fish breathe through there gills the blood contains a higher concentration of CO2 than the water and thus the CO2 diffuses out. As you increase the amount of CO2 in the water that difference become smaller up to the point that they are equal. Once this happens the fish can not expel the CO2 from the body and suffocate. The amount of O2 in the water has no effect on the CO2 leaving the fish. That is why there is a ceiling that we can't pass when injecting CO2.

Now nature is a wonderful thing and Tetras cardinal's had seemed to adjust to the higher CO2 concentration but the new ones would have been shocked by it.

Hope that helps.


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Maybe it wasn't a CO2 or an O2 thing. Maybe it was just a drastic PH swing for them.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 11-May-2006 15:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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So I took out all of my big pieces of DW (they needed cleaning anyway) and put smaller pieces in there place. Granted these are too small and I'll probably look for longer branchier pieces (maybe I have to call the other Jeff), anyway this give an idea of what the tank looks like with less DW. It's much lighter and gives me more room to grow plants. Look you could actually see my rotala again. Some of the stems that got caught in the large DW shadow have already shown improvement after only a few days.



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Where is the super sized smiley with the shades? I need about 10 of them.

Awesome tetratech. I can't believe the difference in light you got from the change of driftwood. Does it look so much brighter in nature as well?

I guess very soon we will not be able to see your mid and background plants anymore as the Riccia will start to produce a bubble wand of air

It seems your Blyxa is rather green. This plant should also soon start to turn brownish/yellowish given the better light access.



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Thanks LF, I'll definitely be in the market for several tall, thin branchy pieces. The riccia already looks better, but not sure if there's still enough light to turn the Blyxa colors. BTW - The experiment with the Blyxa ended in my 12g. It did not grow with 2.2wpg, Excel and EI.



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I'll definitely be in the market for several tall, thin branchy pieces
Maybe you want to give "the other Jeff" a call .
It did not grow with 2.2wpg, Excel and EI
Uh, let us hope that around 2.5wpg and way more water (40G) will be enough for me to grow it.

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Tetra,
That last picture is really nice. I love the lighter look. It really shows your tank in a new light....

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Thanks Wings.

I'd like to see how it looks with some longer branchier pieces.

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I'll sneak in a couple of pics on Mother's Day

I feel like I've bascially created an attractive tank for my large and getting larger school of cardinals. The tank has nice plant mass, but also has alot of open space where I think the colors of the cardinals really show up nice.

I think I've captured 21 cards in this pic.

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Here's a full tank shot. I really like this shot for the colors in the plants. Now you could see the supporting role the rotala r. has taken on the mound without the bulkier DW in there. I will probably replace or add larger branchier pieces and might change the main rock to something shorter, but overall I'm pretty happy with this look.

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Tetra,

Really great shot of your tank. It truly shows off the colors of the tank and gives your tank full justice.

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but overall I'm pretty happy with this look

As you should

Besides having your tank being very pretty indeed, you also managed to get a show-like picture. All in focus, nice light, perfect.

In the last shot the rock in front of the main group actually looks nice. It creates a separation of back, left, and right, in my eyes a good thing.

The one scape entity that I still thinks needs work is the Riccia. It appears a little artificial and needs to grow in larger matts.

Very nice shot,

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As usual, good observations and thanks.
That was an interesting catch on the main rock, although it breaks the green and gives some definition to areas I never really noticed it as clearly as your observation.

The riccia could be alittle fuller, but I'm actually happy it's growing in the shadow of that rock. As you might have observed, the rock has a sort of overhang to it. With the top right overshadowing the lower right of the rock. If you look down to the right side (where that cardinal is) you could see the riccia is actually growing right against the rock under the overhang. Considering it's fairly light demanding when grown attached to the substrate, I'm pretty happy it's able to survive in that area.

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THE TANK LOOKS AMAZING I LOVE IT...IVE GOT SOME GREAT IDEAS FOR MY 20 GALLON LONG AQUARIUM...SOON TO BE OOUT UP..oh sry about the caps didnt realize they were on till now lol ment to ask because i havent really read over everything but are you using CO2 and how many watts do u have on the tank?
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bratyboy2,

Thanks for the comments. I have 192watts of light which gives me about 2.7 wpg.

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It's amazing how fast a tank can get out of hand. No LF I don't mean algae. You can put your tongue back in your mouth. .

I mean growth. This was my tank five days ago, Plants pretty much reached the top, but tank was looking good.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
And this was my tank earlier today. I am a little
This is the most I've let my tank go.
Look how dark it is under the main area.

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And here it is this evening after a major trim and I mean major. I took out alot of mass. Maybe I'll get algae (LFs tongue comes out again)

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I had some really nice pearling tonite.
Plants pearl everynite, but today was exceptional.




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Cardinal a la aromatica:







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tetratech,

Your plants sure show some excellent growth

That was a major trim, your center group went from B52 to Skin Head

I like the close-up "Cardinal a la aromatica", besides the plants and fish it shows your increasing talent for taking nice pictures

Is that main rock showing some red algae on it, or is that its natural coloration (being petrified wood) ?

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Thanks Ingo,

That was a major trim, your center group went from B52 to Skin Head



Sorry no red algae, natural colors of the petrified wood.

I'm surprised you didn't see the add'l riccia cover rock in the foreground.

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I'm surprised you didn't see the add'l riccia cover rock
Oh, now that you mention it, yeah - I see it . Now you need a few more and let them grow in just a little and they will appear to be one carpet.

In any case, are you using really a hair net to fix the Riccia on the rocks?

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In any case, are you using really a hair net to fix the Riccia on the rocks?


Absolutely. I think it's the only way to go. Think about it. If you use thread much of the growing riccia will not be held down and it will eventually float up. With the hairnet it's all held down until you get so much growth that it breaks away.

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Oh, what the hell!

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Your Tank looks great. I have one question... Can you please do one final run up of the total cost and fish and plants? Or is that too much to ask?

Chris
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Oh, what the hell!


When have the Boesemani been added to the tank? Was that this weekend? How many overall did you get? I hope more than 2, right?

Otherwise, beautiful

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
I hope more than 2, right?


They only had two, but I would like to add one more, although I think both of these might be the same sex and I'm thinking they are both boys. I'll need some of your rainbow expertise. If they are both boys, I'm probably better off leaving it at two being that I don't have the same for say 6 or 7.

Here's another shot:

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I'll need some of your rainbow expertise
Well, I don't have a load of expertise, but I would up the group no matter what. If my Neon Dwarfs are similar, then I think that the male/female ratio in these fish is not as important. I find that the dominant male is busy chasing all other males away from the females (I have currently 2f and 3m in the main tank, with 3 more males to follow from the QT soon). This leaves the females with much less stress than let's say with platies.

There is a clear visual difference in males and females in my Neons, and when you look at the web for this fish you usually only find males in pictures. What are the gender differences in your Rainbows? If they are easy to sex and you have only males then you could opt to get only males in addition (if you like to). Boys hanging out with boys tend to be much less agressive towards each other then when one girl come along (just like people).

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Thanks,

From what I've read the females are more a solid greyish color. If that's true these are differently male, because you could clearly see the half blue/half yellowish coloration.

I just got these yesterday afternoon, acclimated for 2.5 hours and put them in. I don't have the luxury of a QT but I have my friend Mr. UV to help. They started eating that evening and to my dislike started to aggressively chase the rummys around the tank. Only the rummys I haven't seen them chase anything else.

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and to my dislike started to aggressively chase the rummys around the tank
One more reason to up the group so they are busy chasing each other rather than a different species. Two have figured out quickly "who is the boss". But a group of 6 will have ongoing hierarchy "issues" as every day the group will be busy anew based on the short attention span to existing formations.

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One more reason to up the group so they are busy chasing each other rather than a different species




Well, I guess I'll observe them for a while, if they start to disrupt the delicate balance in my tank back they'll go to the LFS.

I'm getting a little concerned about fish load with these additions. I also added back in my black neons since the load was too high in the 12g. Since nothing dies it's almost impossible to by more fish without another tank or trading some in. The 12g has:

8 Gold Tetras
4 Black Neons (3 removed, 1 I can't %#$* catch.)
2 Kull loaches
3 Otos
3 Cherry shrimp
2 Amano shrimp

That was 22 fish/shrimp in a 12g. Now there are 19 and will be 18 when I catch the final %#$* black neon.

In the 72g:

23 Cardinals
8 otos
5 pencils
4 rummys
3 bolivan rams
2 bosemani rainbows
2 corys
Amano shrimp (don't know how many)

47 fish plus shrimp



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
(3 removed, 1 I can't %#$* catch.)


Come on - it can't be that hard to get a fish in a tank that is pretty much open. I usually chase them with a stick into the open side of a tank and wait with the net there. Then I corner them and - voila.

Try catching Espei in a heavily planted tank, now that is a challenge. I think you may try again during the next water change at low tide.

About the stocking: Yeah, I see that the 12G could have been overstocked. But for the large tank, how about this:

23 Cardinals - great
8 otos - even better
5 pencils - return to LFS
4 rummys - return to LFS
3 bolivan rams - 3? where did the 3rd one come from?
2 bosemani rainbows - up the group to 6
2 corys - fine
Amano shrimp (don't know how many) - lovely
4 Black Neons - return to LFS

Just thinking,

Ingo

EDIT: tetratech - did you see This Thread I Created?


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Thanks LF,

That restocking list is pretty much my thinking. Typo on the 3rd ram.

This is the catch-22 with the rainbows and why I mentioned they might be returned. I already noticed them nipping on my riccia mounds of which will not be tolerated. Putting big fish in planted tanks especially ones that are omnivores in always difficult. Now one could say if I feed more this will not happen, but I'm unwilling to feed in excess as you know, because I feel stronger than ever that this is a major problem.

So who knows I might end up with 40 cardinals, 2 rams and a clean up crew.

BTW - I did just see your thread. I've gotten into a bad habit of hitting my shortcut on my desktop that goes right to active threads.

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I already noticed them nipping on my riccia mounds of which will not be tolerated.


Yeah, that is right, I totally forgot. You may remember that I once searched for an answer as to where all my duckweed went. Well, you may also remember that I figured that I thinned the group out during a water change and that the remaining ones could not spread faster than my fish ate them. And these fish would be the Pearls, and yes - the Rainbows. No doubt, if yours are even remotely similar then they will eat the Riccia, as it is a tasty treat

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They are both boys. Both are still very young. They will get much bigger and brighter. The yellow will eventually turn to an orange colored.

6 full grown ones may be too much for the tank. Rainbows are generally light on the bio load, they produce very little waste, but they will get big and are quite active. A male and female will spawn on a almost daily basis every early morning.

They do grow very slowly though. I've had a couple for years. After 2 years the male is still not full grown, but still bigger then the Pearl Gourami.

Male Boesmanii gave be quite feisty, they won't do any real harm but will chase smaller fish out of the way if moody. But if you try to add any small fish with a Boesmanii around he'll assume you are providing a tasty snack.

They don't touch plants as a rule but yers I've seen mine pull apart Riccia apart for fun when I had it, so much so I made a post about it, a good while back, in the Photo booth forum.

I like them but to be honest I wouldn't have them again unless I had a large all rainbow tank. That's were they look the best.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Bensaf,

I guess I'll decide after a few weeks if they are keepers. It was very against my fish purchasing instincts but I kinda wanted a centerpiece that would possibly make the cards school tigher, but that hasn't happened, in fact they cards seem scattered around now on the nonstop swimming antics of the rainbows.

BTW - I found your riccia salad thread but the pics were gone. Apparently your rams also ate the stuff, mine have never touched it.





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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
I kinda wanted a centerpiece that would possibly make the cards school tigher


Pearls seem to work for LF

EDIT: Dang! I'm sorry for taking post 1500, tetra


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EDIT: Dang! I'm sorry for taking post 1500, tetra


Don't worry, your worthy.

What I'm really annoyed about is this:

Bring back any memories Bensaf:

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It does.

Don't know why but they ripped the Riccia apart, quite deliberately. But I've had Riccia in the tank since, in smaller quantities but they didn't touch it. Either bored or the smaller clumps didn't attract them.

They are not the best choice for a centerpiece fish, way too active.

Deinately Gouramies would be a better bet, especially the Pearls.

None of them really work for getting smaller fish to school tighter. In the same way the fish figure the tank is a safe place and spread out, they soon figure that big scary fish that just arrived is in fact just a big wimp and stop schooling anyway.


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None of them really work for getting smaller fish to school tighter
Same experience here

The only time my 500 Espei school is if I scare them, either on purpose to see them peruse the tank (rarely) or during water changes when they flee from the vacuum.

Ingo


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The only time my 500 Espei school

I thought espei were great schoolers. They don't school like Harquelins?


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They don't school like Harquelins


Harleys aren't great schoolers either. They just sit there and move a little bit. Like most groups they school mainly when the gravel vac is there, or something new plops in the tank.

Lazy cypranids


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Well tetratech ,

Here is my spin on the schooling:

What is the purpose of schooling in fish? Most likely security, "save in numbers". Also, social aspects, like "who is the boss" , may play a role, but less importantly.

Now imagine a tank where about every 3 inches away from you there is another one of your kind, no matter where you go (and I assume this is similar for most species of schoolers). Creating a tight formation with enough others is a matter of a second, alas the feeling of security is given all the time. On the other hand, if there are only a few of you scattered throughout the tank then it would take quite a while until a safe group has formed. In this case, it would be better to "hang" closer to each other, aka schooling.

So my spin is: there is a point where a school is becoming so large (in a tank) that there is no need to school anymore.

Food for thoughts,

Ingo


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Harleys aren't great schoolers either.

Oh, I meant to shoalers.

But they don't scatter do they. I had harleys for about a year and they were always by each other's side.

Rummy's a good, but they looked washed out in my setup.



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LF,
I posted after you posted, anyway you might have a point.
I've always heard the more you add to a species the better they will school, but size of tank can have an impact I'd imagine.

It's funny one of the better LFS I have on the Island always puts little descriptions of the fish on a little sticker on the glass. Some examples:

Harquelin Rasboras - "One of the best schoolers"
Neon Tetra - "The fish that started it all, good schooler"
Cardinal Tetra "Beautiful fish, great schooler"

Dwarf Neon Rainbow - "New species"


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Dwarf Neon Rainbow - "New species"


Wow, I have a new species, I AM SO SPECIAL

Ingo


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Sad part is I almost fell for it as I pushed my nose up against the glass so see if they were different.

Very beautiful fish. I almost bought those instead of the Bosemani.

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Thought this was a nice shot. Tank almost looks like it has two mounds with the taller wisteria in the back.
I also like all the color (both fish and plants). I think its shows that the tank has depth and interest as well.



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My Dwarf Neon Rainbows are peaceful little fishies, never bother anybody but their own species (and that only with showing off), and their blue shine with the red finnage is very pretty. Maybe you should give them a try.

About your tank: Very nice, I like the slightly different angle you used to make this photo. I guess that is one of the advantages of a bowfront as the tank seems to change when you look into the curved glass from different angles.

Ingo


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Had some time this weekend, so I decided to see how the tank would look with a different main rock. As you could see in this pic, I replaced the rock with what is actually two rocks which created an opening in between them.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's a full tank view:

This lower rock allows even more light to reach the foreground. I've also moved the Blyxa on the right side even more right to allow space to plant more riccia.



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Nice tetratech,

This rock makes the plants shine even more, although it is all rather green in there .

I would assume that you will have to watch out that this smaller rock will not be consumed by the plants. The Wisteria seems to thrive like mad.

Ingo


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tetra,

What's that fish in the upper right corner-ish region of the tank - it looks almost like a yo-yo loach...


LF, love the avatar


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EditedEdited by tetratech
This rock makes the plants shine even more, although it is all rather green in there

What's weird is last nite I took that pic and the rotala and aromatica looked really red, but for some reason the camera didn't capture it on my usual settings.

Nowher,


That's funny it does look like a yo-yo, but believe it or not it's not even a fish, it's actually just glare.

EDIT: LF I'm surprised you didn't see the twig in between the rocks.



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LF I'm surprised you didn't see the twig in between the rocks
I thought it was a dead fish

Honestly, I don't really extract the pictures that I look at and search for clues under the microscope on how the "masters" have managed to build stonehedge . What is this twig for? A coat hanger for the fish?



Ingo

Oh, and don't forget to read about my latest issues with the 40G breeder.


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A coat hanger for the fish

Oh you bad. I think it adds intersest to the tank. I'm looking for a better twigh though.

A dead fish in my tank. I don't think so.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Although green, my Blyxa have definitely started to look healther and no more BBA since I removed some shading.



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But I didn't expect this:



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Hi tetratech

As always, your tank is beautiful. What is the plant called in the picture with the twig. Not the wisteria, the plant that is above rock / twig arrangement? Will it grow in low/medium light, or does it require high light?

thanks,
Robyn


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Thanks Robyn,

The plant right above the main rock is Limnophila aromatica. It was sold to me as Eusteralis stellata, but the popular opinion is that it's the aromatic. It is bordered by Stargrass on either side. This tank has 2.7wgp and it grows like a monster. It's actually more colorful than the last pic. (if you go back in the log you'll see more colorful shots).

I also have it growing in my 12g which has only 2.2wpg. It grows fine, but not as lush. Like alot of colorful plants, more light usually means more color.



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But I didn't expect this:


Is this:

a) A CO2 bubble stuck on a leaf?
b) Pearling?
c) Fish Exhaust?



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I believe it's "B".

fish exhaust

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I believe it's "B".

Sure it is, I was just pulling your strings . You dont think it was funny ? I guess I will have to try harder the next time around .

BTW, my Blyxa is the most static plant (besides the Isoetes Lacustris) that I have ever seen.I don't think they have grown at all in the almost 4 weeks since I added them to the tank.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
No it was funny, I guess I wasn't totally focusing. Here
s my belated laugh

Yes the Blyxa is really stagnet. As you can see mine are still very much alive, but haven't done much that's why I was amazed at the pearl. I'm starting to think it demands extremely high light to actually grow. Although in my tank with all the stems in a way it's welcome relief.

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Thanks for the belated laugh

I think you are very right about the extreme high light. The guy I bought the Blyxa from has it growing in his 125G. He has an overall lighting period of 9 or 10 hours and high lights for 6 of them. And he has the same light than I do, means 6 hours in over 3wpg on a 125G.

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Post InfoPosted 02-Jun-2006 14:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And he has the same light than I do, means 6 hours in over 3wpg on a 125G

Don't even thing about it

Anyway one of my favorite things about summer. Shrimp on a stick.



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What do you think?



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Post InfoPosted 02-Jun-2006 19:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You like or not?



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Nah

In the last picture it looks like you crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out

Doesn't do it for me at all,

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In the last picture it looks like you crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out


Where do you come up with these? Anyway I might playaround with the position alittle bit.



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Hey tetratech, I think it looks nice & interesting, although I can also see Ingo's image of
a crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out
. Do you worry that the fishies might hurt themselves on the sticks? It's probably just me, but I tend to worry if things are too pointy, but that's probably just old worry wart me. (I spent part of today sanding down the rough pointy edges of some rock caves I'm making out of broken slate).

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 04-Jun-2006 15:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Robyn,

No I think the fish instinctively move around objects in the water. Who's to see what falls into a lake in nature. Branches fall off trees, etc.

Here's a full tank shot from this morning. Changed something?

Attached Image:


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 04-Jun-2006 15:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Changed Something? - hm, the things I notice as different are the specific postions of the crab legs and some Wisteria bush behind on the right-off-center back (but this may just be growth) and the rock that is in front of it.

Also, I notice that you are back to the trianguar layout, just like you were the last time before a major trim. Is that on purpose this time?

Compared to the last full tank shot it appears that the front of the tank is more shaded again.

Otherwise, just as beautiful as usual.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 04-Jun-2006 16:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Changed Something? - hm, the things I notice as different are the specific postions of the crab legs

Easy there big fella and remember you have a new tank coming up for my to judge. Funny you call them crab legs because another crustanean (amano shrimp) really like them. He comes out of his new cave to look around.

Yes, there basically I moved the wallachi over to join the main group and put a rock into that area. Not the rock I want, but I don't have a closet of them to choose.
And yes, I did trim to get that full triangluar look. For some reasoon I think the tank looks best that way.
Also the tank sometimes looks darker because both sets of lights aren't on sometimes.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 04-Jun-2006 16:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Easy there big fella and remember you have a new tank coming up for my to judge.
Uh, I guess I forgot that . Sorry - Grand Master Tetratech, I promise to be more restrained in my judgement of your tank (or not).

Anyway, yeah - the triangular shape is nice, but you will have to watch out that the left sections doesn't lose interest. I mean, there is just Wisteria and once the eye is doen following an incline from right to left, why still look at a low field of even more Wisteria?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 04-Jun-2006 16:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Anyway, yeah - the triangular shape is nice, but you will have to watch out that the left sections doesn't lose interest. I mean, there is just Wisteria and once the eye is doen following an incline from right to left, why still look at a low field of even more Wisteria?


Maybe I misunderstood "Triangle" I"m not trying to make the high point the corner. I stil want the peak offcenter with the aromatica, so I should still say mound although it's not a soft rounder point, but just left to center full and center to right full but still declining.

Here's another closer pic of the main area. I love the lushness.

Attached Image:


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 04-Jun-2006 16:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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