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  L# 72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
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Subscribe72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's a closer shot of the riccia covered rock:
LF, notice some BBA on the DW. See I have algae too.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 05:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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An even closer shot. Here you could clearly see pearling (no water change in 9 days) and some of the hairnet that is holding the riccia in place.



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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 05:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
Now that's a tank that's devloping real nice.

The re-arrangement of the rocks and riccia is fantastic.

Suddenly it's a tank with lots of interest (without being fussy or distracting) and life. Brighter pics too !

You know have different levels and depth that was lacking before. Great great job

You can dump the still life avatar now.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 12:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well thank you Sir!

I had a feeling you would like it. I tried to make it more "random" with some wisteria just growing loosely across the midground and having it mix with the other plants. You might have also noticed the Blyxa coverage has expanded and is slightly more random occupying different levels.

You can dump the still life avatar now.


Oh good, I was getting bored looking at it.

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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 13:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Now that is just wonderful

Was that the reason you didn't update your log in the last week or two? If so, well done, the surpirse is truely a good one.

I am with Bensaf, depth and the whole nine yards, excellent.

But, I wouldn't be myself if I would not have a work of caution:

You have greatly reduced your wisteria farm, the one plant I claim to be responsible for your extreme stability with regards to algae. Have a keen eye on the developing tank, just to make sure that it stays stable. And, Riccia, IMHO, has one disadvantage, it hides algae very well in its lower regions. I know that you perform regular trimmings, so this may not apply to you.

Besides that, BRAVO

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 13:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Is it just me or did you add a larger riccia rock to both sides of the mound?

I really like the new look. It creates a slightly more wild look to your tank. A good change from the still life, clean cut scape.



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 14:09Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Was that the reason you didn't update your log in the last week or two? If so, well done, the surpirse is truely a good one.

Well I timed the "refresh" a few days before I left so I would enjoy about a weeks of growth when I returned (a week with no ferts anyway)

You have greatly reduced your wisteria farm, the one plant I claim to be responsible for your extreme stability with regards to algae
Yes I did think of that, but I had already taken out every wisteria stem prior to the redo in about 3 phases. The lower stems that were being crushed from 10 months of horziontial growth were looking pretty ratty. There's still alot of wisteria in there and the tank is that much more mature. So I'll keep my fingers crossed. The riccia will definitely be more maintenance than the wisteria that I was able to get away with clipping the tops for 10 months.

Is it just me or did you add a larger riccia rock to both sides of the mound?

If it wasn't clear from the photos there is a large rock deep-midground on both sides of the mound. The rocks were positioned to angle up toward the mound keeping the effect.





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Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 14:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Aw, no more riccia foreground? Well, i guess this new gorgeous set up will have to do...

Really well done. Your tank has a different feel to it that's been hard to pin down. I think it reminds me a lot of a tropical island, with the wisteria acting like big palm trees.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 23-Aug-2006 16:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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The new look is really nice, but then I always loved the old look too

I saw you say in LF's log that your pH is under 6 in the evening. Do you know what it is in the morning, before C02 turns back on?

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 24-Aug-2006 00:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Robyn,

My best guess is between 5.8 and 6.0 at lights out and between 6.4 and 6.6 at lights on.



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Post InfoPosted 24-Aug-2006 02:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Current pic of large riccia covered stone inbetween some foreground and "background wisteria. The stone is about the size of my head, believe me that's pretty big.

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Post InfoPosted 25-Aug-2006 19:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I found these rocks in PA last weekend. They look alot like petrified wood so I grabbed a few. I was going to use the acid test on them. I don't have any muratic acid, but I heard you can use PH down (Sodium Biphosphate). Has anyone tried this.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Aug-2006 19:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I have heard to use Vinager. If it bubbles then you shouldn't use it because it will raise your Ph, Kh and/or GH?

Isn't it fun to go out and pick up rocks and not pay big bucks /pound!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 25-Aug-2006 20:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Sorry I'm late, but ooohh...aaahhhh.

Looks great as always Tetra. I particularly like how the wisteria wraps around the new rock on the right. It makes the tank look really deep front to back.

And I'm not sure there is a rock out there as big as your head with all this kneeling and grovelling over your tank:.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Aug-2006 00:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the tank comments and this

And I'm not sure there is a rock out there as big as your head with all this kneeling and grovelling over your tank

:

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Post InfoPosted 26-Aug-2006 02:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Ahhh I crack myself up.....but you had to expect it, right?



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Post InfoPosted 26-Aug-2006 03:03Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A couple of shots. I added more riccia to the left and right corner foregrounds. I feel the Blyxa is more "incorporated into the tank instead of just in the corners.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 16:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Here's a shot showing the bigger riccia stone with pretty good growth. Also my largest rummynose. This guy has been with me along time, surviving the brewery.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 16:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Interesting tank shots, in particular the first one. Reason: when I see your other full shots they never contain the surroundings (I guess you took this one because of Matty's crocket shot requests ). In this shot, your tank seems much smaller than in the others, even smaller than it really is. I wonder why, no idea!

BTW, I was on your island for the day (mother-in-law) and on my way back stopped at your fish store. Not much there, the wood wasn't all that good and I found out (sales person told me) that they carry Apistos only maybe one group in 4 months (and she bought the last group of your Apistos). Interesting. Plants where in pretty bad shape too, lots of algae - in particular BGA.

I assume the reason for the bad stock is the fact that today is the last day of their anniversary sale, with some fish up to 40% off, wood 25% off, and what not.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Aug-2006 23:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I was on your island for the day (mother-in-law) and on my way back stopped at your fish store. Not much there, the wood wasn't all that good and I found out (sales person told me) that they carry Apistos only maybe one group in 4 months (and she bought the last group of your Apistos). Interesting. Plants where in pretty bad shape too, lots of algae - in particular BGA.


You have to hit it at the right time for plants. Those plants are pretty much mush if you don't get there within 5 days of delivery. I don't get those marineland tank displays. They put this MH light right in the middle where the three joined tanks met. It sucks and it's designed for hugh turnover of plants.

The Apistos are hidden in a large endcap tank in the back of the store (Bad idea) They have usually 4 or 5 varieties. Same thing as plants, you have to hit it right, but you are right the sale probably has something to do with it. They really use the store to get highend custom installs. Without the installs the store probably wouldn't make it.


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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 01:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Yes, I agree, these tanks for the plants don't seem to work too well.

They have the Apistos somewhere else?
Do you think the sales person would have known about this? She seemed very knowledgable as she tried to explain a mother and her young son that 3 sharks (customer didn't know which ones) and one cory are more than enough in a 10G . Even after repeated warnings from this sales person, all answered by the woman with "That's OK", she bought another fish anyway (first choice was one clown loach, I don't know what she got in the end). That sales person told me that she bought the last apistos they had.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 01:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Doesn't surprise me.

Had nothing better to do on a rainy New York, so I decided to put my hand in my tank to see what would happen. The fish couldn't care less, but this Amano decided to jump from this DW/BBA Tower to my hand.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You could get a better perspective on the size of my tank in this shot.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Wow, Matty has sure caused some good pics in all the planted gang's tanks to turn up. I like the one with the amano on your hand, pretty cool.

But I also like that I've now seen what your tank looks like with that light on top. If I did convert my 43.5G tank, mine would look pretty much identical - as mine has that black stripping on the top & even that cross bar for added support. I can now show that to hubby, as he doesn't want me to convert the tank. He likes it how it is. He will still probably object, as he likes how all 3 of my tanks match, and if I do the conversion, the big tank will be the "odd man out". But your pic may help me out, as he will see a pic of what I'm trying to explain it will look like.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Glad I could help Robyn. If you look closely you could see the little rubber feet under each front corner where the light meets the glass top.

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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 02:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Gee,

I guess in order to top tetratech I will have to make a photo with my foot in the tank

Either this shrimp is really stupid or you are a very trustworthy person (or you had some algae glued to your thumb).

During feeding, I once in a while can pet my pearls and the male Apisto, but only briefly

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 03:10Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Tetra,

Very nice pictures. Your tank has always looked super huge until that full tank shot.

The picture with the shrimp is quite interesting. At work the skunk shrimp will do the same thing. My fresh water shimp seem much more skiddish though.

It is always interesting to hear about other LFS's as I work in one. Right now our plants are taking a turn for the worst. That is what happens when they don't let me ferts like I like to. 3WPG and no ferts tends to lead to hair aglae and I just started to see it in the Display tank.

Plants are not a really big part of our busness but they are picking up. Being that there is not a really fast turn over it is best to plan on keeping them alive for a while. If you don't plan on keeping them alive then they look like crap and you can't sell them. Ahh.......sorry things are messed up at work....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Aug-2006 03:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Right now our plants are taking a turn for the worst
What kind of setup does your store have for the plants?

Guys I'm giving serious consideration to uping my light to a 260watt 48" CF fixture, that would give me 130watt and 260 midday. I'm considering this for several reasons:

1. I'm growing more riccia toward the corners and it's defintely a challenge with the 36" fixture.

2. I need a 36" light for my saltwater setup and I can use my current fixture and just switch the bulbs.(Yeah Matty, I'm still coming to the darkside)

2. Like to see if it colors up the aromatica alittle more.

3. Might looks "alittle" better

I'm reluctant of course becausse "why change a good thing" and I would be going to 1.8 and 3.6 from 1.3 and 2.6.

What do you guys think?

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 01:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Well tetratech,

That would put you at least in my ballpark of lighting, if not more. Your tank has pretty much the dimensions of a 55, with a dent in the front glass. With this I mean that the brunt of light will hit a smaller area than the 72G may make one assume there are. Do you know what I mean? Remember that I am down to 1h of high light only.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 02:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Your tank has pretty much the dimensions of a 55, with a dent in the front glass

You have such a way with words. Did you ever consider being a brochure writer for AGA.

Anyway, yeah I know exactly what you mean and to be honest I wouldn't feel comfortable going with the high light for more than a few hours and probably not with my existing fishload. Although I believe the tank is more mature and might be able to handle it now as opposed to 5 or 6 months ago.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 02:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Bah I don't believe it. I never got a second timer for my lights. 192W for 12 hrs per day. So far it's working out, but I don't know how it will be when I get more fish in there and feed more. Right now the plants LOVE it. The baby's tears have pretty much gone bananas and the hygro has reached the surface and started to bend over, the ambulia is almost there as well. No algae. I don't know how long it can last to be honest, I'm starting to worry about how things are going so well. With all the nonsense you guys gave me about fishless cycling you almost got me believing it would crash as soon as I turned the lights on.

There is that whole why change a good thing, though. Personally, I'd upgrade though. It's a perfect oportunity. I took advantage of a similar oportunity as well.

And Tankwatcher...don't blame me for the better pics. All blame goes to the photographer



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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 03:07Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Matty,
don't blame me for the better pics. All blame goes to the photographer
Do you mean when I said your marine pics are nice & that your's looks better than ours. Definitely you're the better photographer - as a photographer, I suck. But it's more than that. The tank is hubby's & I don't necessarily like his arrangement of rocks or choice of corals. So the compliment was for how you have things arranged, just as much as the photography skills.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 03:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Nope, I was responding to this comment:

Wow, Matty has sure caused some good pics in all the planted gang's tanks to turn up. I like the one with the amano on your hand, pretty cool.




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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 03:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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I was confused by what you meant, as I forgot about that photography comment & thought it was funny that you'd mention the marine pics here. Dopey me

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 03:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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tetratech,

Well, if you have the spare money I would say you should go for it, the least it will do is to put your theory on light vs. algae to the test

So, 260W are 4 65W units, if I understand that right. Did you think about splitting the K spectrum or are they all gonna be 6,700?

And Matty - "All blame goes to the photographer" - How should I have known that you like crocket angles for your tank pictures. That only became clear to me after I saw the Picasso installation in your tank .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 10:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well, if you have the spare money I would say you should go for it, the least it will do is to put your theory on light vs. algae to the test

Well not much of a theory, more light, more waste, more algae

Still two camps out there, macros (no3,po4) cause algae or not. What's the difference between the no3 produced by our bacteria friends and the no3 we dump in?

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 13:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
What's the difference between the no3 produced by our bacteria friends and the no3 we dump in
Organic and Synthetic?

As for the lights. I would say go for it if you have the cash. I am running strait 3.25WPG on my tank with out any problems. I don't think you will have a problem with it.

Edit: Forgot about this...

What kind of setup does your store have for the plants?
For plants we have:

(4) 15G with PC
(1) 40G Long with 130W PC
(1) 120G with 322W PC

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 14:24Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Well one difference between the KNO3 and the nitrate that comes from fish waste is that fish waste is ammonia first. Everybody should know by now that it's ammonia that is the major cause of algae. Either that or you have a major imbalance causing your plants to stop growing.


the Picasso installation in your tank

I think you are referring to my glossofalls there LF, and please the name is "death star" anything else just falls short.



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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 14:54Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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For plants we have:

(1) 40G Long with 130W PC
(1) 120G with 322W PC


And no real co2 and fert program

Well one difference between the KNO3 and the nitrate that comes from fish waste is that fish waste is ammonia first. Everybody should know by now that it's ammonia that is the major cause of algae. Either that or you have a major imbalance causing your plants to stop growing.

Your preaching to the choir. I'm with you on the ammonia thing, but I'm referring to the biological filter converting ammonia into nitrate as the end-product of the nitrogen cycle. Is this product pretty much the same to the aquarium as the no3 we dump in?

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 15:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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And no real co2 and fert program

Well there was a fert program but that has ended. I haven't been into work in a few days but the last time I was there the hair algae had started. See what happens when I get to work tomorrow!

Pretty cool ehh?

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 15:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A little aerial action:



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tetratech
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and a shot from the side showing the riccia growing on the big rock. You could cleary see the hairnet on the back where there isn't any growth.

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You could cleary see the hairnet on the back where there isn't any growth.
If you wouldn't have pointed it out only LF would have caught it.

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 17:52Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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If you wouldn't have pointed it out only LF would have caught it.

Amongst other things I'm sure

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Wingsdlc
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Very true tetra!

Nice plant colors BTW!

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 18:03Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Nice plant colors BTW!

Thanks Man! I think if I go up to 260w I will get better color in the Aromatica. I've tried experimenting with many levels of po4, macros and lowering no3, helps alittle, but not real deep color. I think this plant needs more wattage!

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 18:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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only LF would have caught it
Me, noooooo

I like the shots from the side once in a while as it shows how much you made out of a rather narrow tank.
I think this plant needs more wattage
Or - a permanent waterproof marker

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I am kind of thinking of adding more Wattage with my tank too for colors.....I keep forgetting I have another PC ficture laying around....If I ran both fictures I could have up to....390W's... thats....almost 10WPG......Oh the colors I could have.....or aglae!

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Post InfoPosted 30-Aug-2006 22:24Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Your aerial shot looks great, and I never would have seen any hair net.

If the new light means more colour, why not go for it.

BTW, I've been watching your converstation over the last day or so, about upgrading the lights. This decided me. Since way back, an on-line LFS has been holding my payment for either 36" or 48" fixture for the 4ft tank (or maybe even upgrading the 43.5G). I haven't been able to decide till now. I've called them & their sending out the 48" today. I'm not allowed to set the tank up yet, but I'm getting everything ready for the great day when I get the go ahead. I even have a regulator & solenoid I bought on ebay.



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Oh the colors I could have
Wings - If you are not talking about a Nano tank here (and you aren't) then I would strongly suggest to reconsider hanging 10wpg over any normal sized tank. But on the other hand, I would be very interested to see the effects.
If the new light means more colour, why not go for it.
Robyn - because with every watt added to your light your margin of error is equally (not in a strict mathematical sense of things) reduced. And tetratech would be addding quite a bit. With that, IMHO, he risks running into the same issues that I have on the 125G. But at least he has a UV light that kills floating algae. BTW tetratech, did you replace the bulb in it yet?

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Well, it's too late now. The 48" fixture should already be on it's way to me from Brisbane. I hope I don't regret it. But the decision's made, so I'll try not to even think about it again. I may not even be able to set it up for a very long time & besides, I think I will sell the 4ft I have, as it is a small 4ft (only 14 inches wide & 18inches tall). I will get a tank instead that is 18 inches wide & 20 inches tall. I would not have 260W, but 220W over 72G & for the majority of time, I would run 110W, only 220W for maybe an hour - building daily maybe to 2 hours. I don't think I'd really be up for much extra in the swap over, as I have the tank & the stand to sell (I don't need the stand it came on). By the time I am allowed to set it up, maybe I'll also have saved enough $$$ for a UV too. (Sorry tetratch to talk about my non-set-up dream tank in your log.)

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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 13:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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BTW tetratech, did you replace the bulb in it yet?
No not yet, but your right it's probably due for a change. Depending on usage, I think you could wait a year.

As far as the 48" light. I guess I'll lose a little intensity when raising it up on the coralife stands. Right now it's pretty much on the glass.


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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 13:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think the intensity loss is minimal when raising the fixture by about 2 inches as all that the light has to pass in that space is air. But you will get a better spread

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I would strongly suggest to reconsider hanging 10wpg over any normal sized tank. But on the other hand, I would be very interested to see the effects.
Thats why I am temped to try it. The Rotalla Magenta is not doing really hot in my tank and I am guessing it needs more light. Maybe I will start out with extra 130W's and see what happens. That would put me at 6.5WPG. I could probably pull that off.......



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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 14:20Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,

Where did you buy your fixtures? I think it was Hellolights but I don't know for certain. based on price and performance I don't think there's much competition for Coralife. Do you agree?

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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 14:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Last nite I took out the DW and scrubbed it down a bit and repositioned it slightly. In this pic you could also see the additional riccia toward the left and right corners. Notice how dark it is.



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Very nice,

Now you are even polishing the driftwood, how about a chrome layer on it to make it really shine

Coralife and nothing else, today I purchased a 65W unit for the 20QT, the only tank that didn't have a PC lighting system. Now all my tanks are Coralife

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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 16:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
..and


Tetratech wrote:
Where did you buy your fixtures? I think it was Hellolights but I don't know for certain. based on price and performance I don't think there's much competition for Coralife. Do you agree?


Thanks for the compliments, BTW - I scrubed the DW of any BBA. I like to use it as an indicator whether there s still new BBA growth, since it seems to only really attack the DW.

EDIT: Matty,Wings anyone: Do you guys know if a full canopy (you know the one's LF hates) fits over a coralife fixture on legs. So if you have a 4 foot tank and a 4 foot coralife can you easily take the top off and on.

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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 17:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I am not sure if you will have problems or not with the fixture and a canopy. We normally don't get canopies for our tanks unless somone wants one. In which case they are normally locally custom made. In short... I can't help. Sorry.

Are you just trying to make LF angry? The best bet would be to call and find out some measurements on one. The biggest thing is making sure its not a super tight fit on the sides of the tank being the legs hang off the sides.



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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 19:36Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Are you just trying to make LF angry? The best bet would be to call and find out some measurements on one. The biggest thing is making sure its not a super tight fit on the sides of the tank being the legs hang off the sides.


Well my wife still is bugging me for one, since she it's in her kitchen and the canopy will make it look more like a built-in. Ah, if I only had a Fish-Room and not a Fish-Kitchen

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Wow tetra, you're a good man, truly a man willing to comprimise. Putting a big ugly canopy over your tank? I'm impressed...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 20:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yeah I'm the man, who knows who the boss is - my wife

One thing actually that I do like about the canopy is that it looks more like a public aquarium, where the room is dark and all the light is n the tank. You aren't distracted by the light that you see coming from the reflector.



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I do agree that the tanks seem to look much more built in when you have a contraption on top of the tank but I am willing to bet that it will be a big pain in the butt with the amount you will have to take the thing off.

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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 21:04Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
No an all-glass canopy won't fit over a coralife with legs. Just the 4 ft fixture on a 4ft tank will fit under a canopy, as the fixture is slightly less than 4 ft. I guess the only way to do that would be to cut a couple slits in the side of the canopy for the legs. All of the weight of the canopy rests on 4 corner pegs so cutting some on the sides would be ok. That would take care of the length wise problem, but I'm not sure if the coralife with legs will fit height wise either. For that, you could cut a couple peices of wood to place in the four corners bringing up the canopy.

EDIT: on the other hand a couple of T5 HO bulbs will fit up into the canopy VERY well. A 2 bulb 4 ft T5HO(icecap) retrofit kit from reefgeek would be nice in there. Other places sell them, but usually don't include choice of bulb and are therefore more expensive. Plus I've delt with them twice, with success. Really if you are planning on a canopy I'd go ahead and do a retrofit kit, even if it's pc. it'll save you money, and won't be as bulky. Fixtures were designed for tanks without canopies. Retrofits were designed for tanks with canopies.



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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 21:44Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for detailed breakdown matty. So pretty much without the legs it will fit. The retrofit sounds interesting, but as Wings points out I'm gonna be taking this thing on and off quite often especially with all the trimming I do, so it's got to be smooth and easy.



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Post InfoPosted 31-Aug-2006 21:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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How much smoother can it be than just taking one thing off? If you have a fixture on the tank, you have to take off the canopy and the fixture, unless you can work around the fixture.



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I don't think the AGA canopies are designed for massive light and with it massive heat, but I don't know that for fact.

One thing is for sure though ( - or not, but I think so): a massive canopy makes any tank look smaller as it appears without it.

Oh, and as for where I got my lights: The super sized fixture on the 125 was from Hellolights, they were the only ones to offer a 72" fixture for shipping and had a great prize as well. My other fixtures are all from Big Al's as the price is pretty much the same, but I get points and fast delivery at less cost.

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Post InfoPosted 01-Sep-2006 13:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks LF for your comments on the females and the lights.
I guess the drama continues, because I'm not convinced of anything with these females and I am convinced the stores don't know what they are getting some times.

Anyway as far as the lights. I too like ordering from Big Als when I can for the reasons you stated, but right now the lighting prices I'm getting for the 48" are:

BigAls $230 (some reason the salt one with lunar is $200)
AquaBuys $200
HelloLgt $195

DrsF&S isn't listing the freshwater one, but the salt is $200. I've started to notice their pricing is beating bigals alot lately. Also why are the freshwater aqualights always in the alumimun housing and the saltwate ones in the black? Any clue?

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The ones we get at my store are all the aluminium just with different bulbs. Changes are they are trying to make them different for less confusion.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Yeah, I don't know why they do that either. My 72" unit is black, but it has by default 2 actinic and 2 10,000K bulbs in it, aka saltwater setup.

I am with Matty on the female Apistos, they all look alot alike, well - at least most do. It may be interesting to start bets on how long it will take until all sub-species are mixed up in one gene pool.

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Post InfoPosted 01-Sep-2006 16:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A couple of rare morning photos of my tank. Tough to take morning shots with the glare coming from the back of my kitchen hits the tank, but here ya go.

Here is a full tank shot. A couple of changes to note:

The rocks have been reworked alittle more to show more constrast between the riccia and the blyxa. In order to do this I had to remove some more wisteria (holds breadth, right LF)

I think the tank is even more random, even the center area is not as "manicured" I also like the way the wisteria randomly exists around the foreground keeping it together.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Sep-2006 14:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A closeup shot showing the different levels and such in the tank. Also alot of fish activity. Those 4 rummys who have been with me since the beginning still school nicely. Much better schoolers than the cardinals, but unfortunately for most hours of the day they don't show up well in the tank.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Sep-2006 14:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I had about 10 rummys about a year ago, and I never saw them. The tank was planted up with (gasp) fake plants and driftwood so there were plenty of places to hide and they used them all the time. The water stayed very clean, they had a TON of color, and there wasn't a whole lot of traffic in front of the tank or anything, they just hid....all the time. I think they were the most disappointing fish I ever bought. Once in a while I'd put my hand behind and on the sides of the tank to scare them out...this was the only time I ever saw them.



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Very nice tetratech, and looking way more diverse than before. I like how the wisteria is arranged in a cresent shape on the right of the tall group, coming taller from the back and wrapping low to the front.

Currently, I find the tall rock with Riccia too massive for the rest of the arrangement. And it hasn't even fully grown in yet. Most other places in your tank have smaller spots with the same plants, as you point out the break up of Riccia in the front with wisteria. This one though is one big Riccia spot. Just my opinion,

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Post InfoPosted 03-Sep-2006 15:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice shots & nice changes. Those rummys look really nice.

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tetratech
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Matty,
That is pretty much the opposite of my small rummynose school. They are pretty much back and forth in front all day. Did you have any predator type fish with them?

LF,

I like how the wisteria is arranged in a cresent shape on the right of the tall group, coming taller from the back and wrapping low to the front.

Glad you noticed that, it is one of my favority spots of the tank right now.

Currently, I find the tall rock with Riccia too massive for the rest of the arrangement.

I don't disagree with you, I'm still playing around with the placement of the large riccia rocks. The right covered rock is alot bigger than the right covered one. I went with rocks I had (remember I'm the other Jeff) and the left one is really too small or the right one is too big, I'll probably end up replacing the left one and making it bigger.

Robyn,

Thanks

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tetratech,

I agree, the left one could be a little bigger, but the right one should be a little smaller as well. It right now has the size of the entire plant species to the left of it (rotala, right?). Maybe not in height but in width it does so.

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tetratech
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LF,
I've made a quick change just for you. See if you can notice the difference:

Here's the first photo again:



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Post InfoPosted 03-Sep-2006 15:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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And here's the LF change:



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You raised the rock on the left, or replace it with a larger one

Right?

Makes the left side more fitting to the right, nevertheless, IMHO the one on the right is too big.

Sorry to be such a PITA, but there is nothing else to bicker about in your tank

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Post InfoPosted 03-Sep-2006 16:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yes, I raised the rock (couldn't cover a new one with the riccia that fast) and put some pieces of wisteria in front of the rock. Your right though the rock on the left actually had already been lifted by another rock underneath. I simply adding another rock to lift it higher. I'll probably go looking for better rocks but I'm pretty much using what I had. Actually the rock on the left is a petrified wood and the big rock on the right is a moss stone I had in my backyard.

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and the big rock on the right is a moss stone I had in my backyard
You know, my wife has some small bolderish looking rocks as borders for her flower beds. You have no idea how often I had been tempted to steal one or the other so I can add them to my tank

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tetratech
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You know, my wife has some small bolderish looking rocks as borders for her flower beds

I would take one and replace it with a fake rock. If she's like my wife, she won't notice the difference.

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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Did you have any predator type fish with them?


Well a couple of apistos, but that wouldn't bug them I don't think. That's all that was in the tank other than a clown pleco.

I was a bit tired when I wrote that post and forgot to actually comment on your tank

I think the new "LF" change really helps balance out the tank in a way I personally(in my lack of scaping skills) couldn't put a finger on.

One thing I like are the little stand alone "adventuresome" wisteria here and there. It looks very realistic in the "it just happened to land right here" sort of way. I'm hoping to get this affect in my tank eventually. I don't want blocks of plants, but sort of a natural blurring and a few adventuresome plants here and there. A little bit of blyxa or chain sword popping up out of the feild of baby's tears or something like that. Maybe an epic battle between the oncoming rush of glosso coming down the falls and the bit of moss clinging for dear life on a rock popping out from the falls. Something like that would be pretty cool, and I think you have a bit of that in the random spots you've been working on.



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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Lately, a couple of us have talked about new rocks & sometimes finding them (or stealing from wive's gardens).

I wondered if this link I stumbled across might help, in making sure the rocks are aquarium safe. It seems to say the vinegar test may not always work.

http://www.cichlid-forum.com/articles/rock_metals.php

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Hi,
Good article Robyn. We carry dilute HCl in to the field
to test for carbonates. Vinegar will not work on all
carbonates for a few reasons. First, the carbonate bond
may be too strong and the acid too weak to break the
bonds. Second, could be due to surface weathering. As the
rock is exposed to the elements, it develops a layer on
the surface that can be a few microns thick to fractions
of an inch thick. This weathering rind will prevent the
acid from reaching the unweathered carbonate below the
rind, and give a false reading. Generally, to eliminate
that possibility, we scratch the surface of the rock or
cleave a piece off the the sample so we get a fresh,
unweathered surface and test on that surface.
The idea of the vinegar was to use an acid that is
most commonly found in nearly every household.
Not everyone has access to HCl.

Frank


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Robyn,

Frank wrote what I thought once I was finished skimming through the article.

Even if I had access to such chemicals, how often would I need them? Maybe once in 6 months if I have multiple tanks, maybe only once at all. Any chemical that I don't need to store in the house is a good one

Vinegar and a little bit of faith will have to do, at least for me.

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Thanks Frank & LF

I received the article via a newsletter I get from having signed up to a US cichlid forum. I wonder why they advise the use of something that is not readily available - seems a bit pointless doesn't it.

Just out of curiousity, I'm going to ask around here in Aus how hard it is to get, but experience tells me that if you find it hard, so will I. My children are all older, so I need not be so worried as LF in regards to having chemicals in the house.

I was interested, cause I tried the vinegar test on my gravel in the 43G & even after scratching the surface, I got no result. But something affects pH & hardness in that tank, even during a time when nothing other than fish, plants, wood & gravel were in there. So I was already doubting the vinegar test, before I read this.

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Well I think one of my bolivians has died. I haven't seen him in 7 days even at feeding time. One of my bolivians is about 2 years old.

Great now I have one bolivian, one bosemani. I might bring the bosemani back along with maybe the 5 pencils to reduce the species count.

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Sorry about the Bolivian tetra. We discussed his age a few weeks ago, I wonder if it was indeed him. If so, at least you know he lived a good long life... after the hwole, ya know, brewery thing...


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Sorry for the loss tetratch. Will you get a new friend for the surviving bolivian?

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Thanks guys. Yes, we did talk about it Nowher and I knew it was coming. Robyn, I probably won't replace the ram, because the other one is pretty old too and I'm currently reevaluting the stock in my tank. Don't like to get rid of anything, but I'd like to move more toward a one species schooling fish. I still have the two young blue rams in there to compliment the schools I have.

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Sorry about the Ram, tetratech

Do you think it has been completely eaten by the tank mates? I would seriously start looking around in the tank for any remains.

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Do you think it has been completely eaten by the tank mates? I would seriously start looking around in the tank for any remains

Thanks LF, I honestly can't find it. I started poking aroudn the back but no luck. I also have about 7 Amano shrimp in the tank. They probably picked at it as well.

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Sorry bout the ram, tetratech. It seems like everybody is having fish drop off, bummer.

In well established tanks(especially one with inverts or scavengers), unless you find them right away, you probably won't find them at all.



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In well established tanks(especially one with inverts or scavengers), unless you find them right away, you probably won't find them at all
.
Yeah, I'm sure your right. Between the shrimp, kuli, corys and otos I'm sure it's pretty much gone.....

Does seem like a bad month so far for Cichlids here at FP

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Between the shrimp, kuli, corys and otos I'm sure it's pretty much gone.....
I didn't know you had corys in there too!

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Yeah,

I think he has one Cory in there, right tetratech? Isn't he the sole surviving cory when your former tank had a nuclear meltdown?

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Hence the Bensaf fish stocking style.

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I think he has one Cory in there, right tetratech? Isn't he the sole surviving cory when your former tank had a nuclear meltdown

Yeah, he seem pretty happy. I know the cory addicts don't approve, but I don't have much of a foreground otherwise I would get more.

Speaking of single fish I think I might return my one bosemani to the LFS today.

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Sounds good tetratech,

I am sure he is a lonely fellow in your tank there. Although one never knows where he will end up next, there is a chance that he will be better off.

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I am sure he is a lonely fellow in your tank there. Although one never knows where he will end up next, there is a chance that he will be better off.


You are right of course, but I know of one LFS that has an endcap 72g with all rainbows in it and supposely they don't sell them. It's just display so I'll try to get him in there.



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A couple of nice schooling shots:



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When cardinals school they are tough to beat IMO.



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A couple of current tank shots. First before a major trim.



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and how the tank looks right now after a major trim. I also lightened up the stargrass groupings, making them more like accents. I just feel the plant is too much maint.in a hi-light, co2 tank. The aromatica, rotala and of course wistera are much more manageable.



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I've also repositioned the wood on the right so it's resting right on the ricca covered rock. Something about ricca in contact with DW

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The larger ricca stones closer to the light pearl much more than the lower stones in the foreground. Since they are in the same tank, the conclusion is pretty solid that hi-light is important for the riccia to pearl, although the lower ricca looks fine and does pearl sometimes, especially after a trim when the main group isn't shading it as much.

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When cardinals school they are tough to beat IMO.
And therein lies the problem, "When" they school. I am sure you had to get the whole family to dance around the tank and to scare them stiff in order for them to school so tight

No seriously, nice shots tetratech. Not surprisingly do I concur that the Riccia does much better with more light.

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And therein lies the problem, "When" they school. I am sure you had to get the whole family to dance around the tank and to scare them stiff in order for them to school so tight

We danced, we sung and of course we "blessed the rains down in Africa"

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But seriously, how come that they schooled so nicely? Or do they do that on a frequent basis? I thought I remembered that you mentioned the lack of schooling in your cardinals.

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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
So speaking of cardinals. Yours look quite nice. We got in some very nice cardinals and neons from FL sometime last week. Needles to say the Neons are gone and the Cardinals are almost gone. I was very tempted to bring some home because they hardly ever look that good. They were always schooling rather tightly too.

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But seriously, how come that they schooled so nicely? Or do they do that on a frequent basis? I thought I remembered that you mentioned the lack of schooling in your cardinals
.
No they usually don't school that's why I took the pics. I've noticed though now that the other bosemani is gone the remaining one chases all the fish around so that might have somthing to do with it.

Wings, I don't know if you remember, but the survival rate of my cardinals went up dramatically since I installed the UV. Absolutely without a doubt it made a hugh difference.
Once cards make it through the first few weeks their actually pretty tough fish and the UV helps them through the acclimation process when their immune systems are compromised by all the stress, thus open them up to parasites that are usually in the water.


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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
A UV filter is one of the few gadgets that I am looking into. The problem I see would be to get the right flow on a filter to assure that the light would kill all free swimming algae, my main concern. If, at the same flow rate, it would kill parasites and what not as well, that would be even better.

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A UV filter is one of the few gadgets that I am looking into. The problem I see would be to get the right flow on a filter to assure that the light would kill all free swimming algae, my main concern. If, at the same flow rate, it would kill parasites and what not as well, that would be even better.


I think that's another testament to how slow my flow rate is in my tank. The flow rate for killing parasites is slower than that for free floating algae and I'm obviously convinced of the effect the UV has had on cardinal survivability. I don't know how exact the recommended flows are for killing parsites, bacteria and/or algae. I'm sure it's not black and white, but rather how effective the kill rate is.

Let's face it. There are parasites probably in most fishes if not all. Why do you think fish get ich when they are stressed. I think it would be almost impossible to buy fish that you know don't have parasites (like untitled suggested with Blue Rams) I don't believe that's a realistic alternative, it's more realistic to keep the parasite suppressed so the fish lives a normal life.

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Yeah I know that your Cards did way better after adding the UV. I have thought about adding one but that is a lot of extra cash to spend on something that I probably don't need right now. Some day if I get into fish like Card or Neons I might get on.

I was just saying before that the fish that came in were hard to resist from buying. They hardly ever look so good.

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
A UV that is in charge of killing parasites would be rather useless to me in the big tank as all fish go for 3 to 4 weeks into the QT first anyway. And rigging that tank to include a UV seems more trouble than not.

My main objective would be algae - DESTROY

Ingo

EDIT: Closing in on 2000, aren't we?


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EditedEdited by tetratech
A UV that is in charge of killing parasites would be rather useless to me in the big tank as all fish go for 3 to 4 weeks into the QT





O.K. so because your little fishes are in QT for 3/4 weeks they don't have parasites. I honestly think it's more the other way around. The UV almost makes the QT useless. With the UV I know it's continuosly killing anything that gets into the water with the QT, just because the parasite doesn't rear it's ugly head in a months time doesn't mean they aren't there, lurking, waiting for an opportunity. If the fish visiblity looks good when purchased, without any obvious signs of illness, I would take a UV over a QT anytime.

EDIT: And yes you could use my 2000 post to respond

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And yes you could use my 2000 post to respond
The I will do that

First off, Hey 2000

If the UV is that good then I agree. If it wouldn't be for all kinds of "issues" that could be carried in with a new fish that are outside of the parasite vs. UV battle.

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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Here is my view on things. I think most people have problems with their fish when they don't take care of them proporly. Most people don't do Water changes the corect way, often enough or their tank is not yet cycled. This lack of tank care leads to weak fish and opens the door to things like parasites or any other issue a fish may face. If you know the cycling process and are good about your water changes you shouldn't have many issues with most fish. Though there are some fish that are touchier than other. Things like your cards. When adding new fish to your tank a drip method will work wonders. Also it is good to buy fish from a good source. Make sure there hasn't been any losses in the LFS tank. Personaly I think a QT is a good idea because who knows what a fish might come with. Plus it is easeir to pull a fish from a QT than a thick plantet tank. On the down side once the fish gets used to the QT and you are sure its healthy you are going to move it again causing more stress. Where the UV may come in handy.

I really think this is a six to one and half a dozen to the other type of argument and it will really depend on the situation.

for 2000 post in your log Tetra!

I will be happy to hit 200 with mine! I guess a camera would help maters...

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well, thanks for the 2000 congrats! I'll just say 2000 posts to my thread and I'm still married.

Anyway, I'm not saying the QT is a waste. It could only help detect something, but I don't think because a fish spends a month in QT it could be declared healthy. Yes, of course there are things that the UV won't catch or destroy, but most problems with fish happen in the first few weeks, thus the logic behind the QT. The fundamental difference I have is that fish have parasites or are e to infection when they are stressed. So if you put a fish in your tank after QT and something stresses it and there is something in the tank the fish might still become sick, but if you have a UV constantly destroying things, than the fish will not be open to infection when it gets stressed. I noticed this first hand with the cardinals and of course my blue rams look fine. I don't think you could ever say you bought a fish without parasites just by looking at it.

BTW - I've never had a QT. Ever fish I bought for my 72g went straight in and I've never had an outbreak of anything since the UV went in.

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bought a fish without parasites just by looking at it.
Really who knows! Can you see them when they aren't hanging off the fish?

One other thing. Don't add LFS water to your tank will help matters also. I buy all most stuff now from my own store and I don't mix waters.

So point of the story is for fish like rams and cards a UV is the deal?

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If I could afford a UV sterilizer, I'd plumb one in under my tank in a heartbeat. I wouldn't use it all the time, but if I were getting new fish, or the fish seemed stressed for some reason, I'd turn it on for a few weeks. Unfortunately, they'll never come down much in price without suffering in the effectiveness category, due to the crystal(not glass) used for the UV bulb sleeve. those things are just down right difficult to make, ship, and on top they break easily. They make all different sizes capable of handling different flow rates. I'm not sure if that was answered. A higher wattage bulb is also longer, meaning that parasites are exposed to the UV longer, so a higher flow rate can be used.



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I'm not sure if that was answered. A higher wattage bulb is also longer, meaning that parasites are exposed to the UV longer, so a higher flow rate can be used.

That's a a really good point. The stronger uv will not require as slow a rate as the smaller ones.

I have the coralife 9W, about $70 online. That's another reason why I think my flow is pretty slow, because it is killing parasites (from what I could tell) The eheim is only 185gph to begin with, plus you have the height, the UV on the return, plus I can't remember the last time I cleaned it. (probably 3 months)

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EditedEdited by tetratech
O.K. I usually don't like my tank right after I trim, but for some reason the tank I thought was looking pretty good. So the following are 3 pics that start out as a full tank shot and then go further into the center.

Driftwood is a funny thing. I was never really thrilled with my DW(preferred LF's ADG Wood, but the pieces in these pics are the same pieces I've had for a long time just rearranged and they actually don't look to bad.

First a full tank shot with baby nano (update probably within a few days) to the left:






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A little closer:



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and even closer:



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I see floating wisteria

Looks great, but I think you should keep going, and make a flip book animation, where it looks like you are falling from outside the tank into the riccia rocks or something.



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preferred LF's ADG Wood


Now if I only knew how to make the ADG wood glow

tetratech,

Looking nice, and the word that struck me first when looking at the tank was "compact". I guess with that I mean that the plants seem full as a mass in the entire tank. There are no gaps or empty spaces, at least not in the areas where there shouldn't be any. The only thing that I think does not quite fit, and I mentioned this before, is that the large Riccia rock at the right of the main group in the back, is too large of an even structure. When the Ricca there is in full swing it will take the focus away from the main plant group.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Sep-2006 10:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Looks great, but I think you should keep going, and make a flip book animation, where it looks like you are falling from outside the tank into the riccia rocks or something.

uh, thanks

LF,
My young grasshopper. Yes the riccia rock on the right looks big I agree, but the tank was just trimmed so the stems are small.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Sep-2006 13:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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My young grasshopper
Glad you didn't call me "Old Man"

Yes, you just trimmed the tank. But I made the same statement when it was not trimmed. And I am sticking to it. What else can I do? Otherwise, all I would have to say is "Looks really nice" and that would be boring, wouldn't it?

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Post InfoPosted 12-Sep-2006 14:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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But I made the same statement when it was not trimmed. And I am sticking to it

Ever since you got that promotion.

Anywho, I guess we'll see next set of pics in a few days when things grow in a bit.

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Looks good tetra. I can see you eventually replacing the wisteria on the right with more big riccia rocks and then planting some stems behind them, like some of Amano's old tanks or not but I definetly like the use of big riccia stones


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Thanks nowher Yeah the big ricca stones are really .
The thought did cross my mind to actually take out all my stems plants except the aromatica and add different levels of riccia stones throughout. Notice the blyxa group on the left looks much fuller. It's getting better light since the riccia doesnt' shade it as much as the stargrass/wisteria used to.

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It's getting better light since the riccia doesnt' shade it as much as the stargrass/wisteria used to
- I think it gets its light from the Nano -

Big Riccia rocks

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Post InfoPosted 12-Sep-2006 16:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I think it gets its light from the Nano

Never thought about that

Big Riccia rocks

You know you want some

Amano with eggs:



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Post InfoPosted 12-Sep-2006 16:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Something about an Amano shrimp on riccia. I think an image like this is what got me into planted aquaria. I've fulfilled a dream. "A shrimp on a piece of floating weed held down by a woman's hairnet".

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So do I still need to send you some salt for that shrimp of yours?

As always Tetra...Very nice!

Any thoughts of adding more wood? Maybe just one or two more chunks?

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Post InfoPosted 12-Sep-2006 20:19Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice Amano shrimpsters, tetratech

Cool to see the eggs in the first shot. Just the other day I was looking into some thread here at FP (don't remember the forum) where Cali linked to some shrimp site. Either directly on that site, or by perusing the web thereafter, I read that Amano shrimp babies have a larvea stage that requires almost pure saltwater for them to survive.

Oh - now my old age is setting in - did I get this confused with your Ninja shrimp? Or maybe it was both? Man, I really can't remember now

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Post InfoPosted 13-Sep-2006 13:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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No, you got that right. The amano fry supposely need some salt to survive. Supposely the adults live in freshwater streams, but the fry when born float back to saltwater and eventually end up back in the stream. It could be worse, you could be a salmon.

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Now this is really funny. Well done tetratech, I guess you couldn't stand the non-dynamic title anymore



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Thanks for the acknowledgement LF!
and on with the show............

You know your a plantgeek, when things like this are more exciting than the fish swimming around. Here is shot of how my wisteria runs through the riccia covered rocks in part of my foreground. These have not been clipped by me and are crawling through from the larger wisteria group seen in the midground.




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Post InfoPosted 13-Sep-2006 15:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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A closer shot:



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Post InfoPosted 13-Sep-2006 15:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I see you are still cracking the whip! It is nice to see your wisteria still moving around. Mine isn't doing that much any more.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 13-Sep-2006 18:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Full tank shot from this morning. I added an extra DW in the middle but I think it's too thick a piece (yes Wings, I thought about it myself and then you mentioned as well.

Some fish changes as well, nothing new added but I decreased my species count by two. I turned in my 5 pencil fish to a good LFS and my 4 black neons. The pencils and black neons I had from the getgo and only lost one black neon from an ich outbreak prior to my UV. The pencils and neons really disappeared into the tank and because they were about the same size as the cards just added clutter to the look of the tank. I'm probably going to move the bosemani since I only have one and I know a good LFS that has a 72g endcap display tank of all rainbows. Because I still have twenty-something cardinals I'll probably add another 10 or so right off the bat. Actually I did add three more amano shrimp to the tank giving me a total of 10 (I think)


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Post InfoPosted 17-Sep-2006 16:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I'm not too sure I think it's too large/thick a peice of driftwood. I think it fits right in like it's been there the whole time. I actually had to go back in the log to make sure I knew which peice it was that you added.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Sep-2006 16:14Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra,

Nice work on the DW. It looks very natural but a thinner chunk might be better. Leave it be for a while and see if it grows on you.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 18-Sep-2006 03:34Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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So what's the general consenous about me putting my agassizi in my 72g with the bolivian and the blue rams?

I really don't like the way they look in the 12g and I really want the shrimp crawling around Monkey Skull Island.

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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 16:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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I think it'll work, tetra. My guess is the agazzssszsszszszs's will find a territory and hang out there, maybe get a little pushy there but nothing terrible.

I know this tank has probably been long torn down, but Amano managed a 40G tank with 4 rams, a pair of a. borelli, pair of cacs and a pair of aggazsamajiggers. Im sure it'll work fine.

And good call on the fish stock. It's nicer to have one big group than a few small ones, but these sort of things happen when you get into the hobby and develop your tastes and style along the way. What we started out with (tiger barbs in my case ) sometimes ends up being far away from what we eventually like and gravitate towards when it comes to fish.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 16:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks nowhere, I'm probably gonna do it. I think I'm alittle gun shy, because long ago as you said when your sorta feeling out fish I threw a pair of kribs in my old 46g and I had some rams at the time and I'm pretty sure I lost a few from the stress that the kribs gave them, but I don't think the agassiz are nearly as agresssive as kribs. I might have issues if and when they decide to breed.

Yeah I'm definitey happier with less species at this point. I will probably move the rainbow later this week.
Even though I'll still have 9 species in the tank only two really patrol the middle of the water column. The rest are either bottom feeders or rams that pretty much stay on the bottom.

Cardinals (23)
Rummynose (4)
Blue rams (2)
Bolivian rams (1)
Apistos (2 - if added)
Otos (7 or 8)
Cory (1 - might add a few more)
Kuhli loaches (2)
Amano shrimp (9 or 10)





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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 16:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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The only theoretical conflict I could see would be the apistos and the cories - there are more than a few cases of apistos doing some eye-pecking at cories when they breed. Could be an issue, might not be. But there's a good deal of precedent for it, so just one thing to consider.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 17:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The only theoretical conflict I could see would be the apistos and the cories -

That doesn't sound good since I only have one cory and he would need his sight to get around since he doesn't have a school to rely on.

Well it is done. I ordered the 48" coralife reflector. So I'm moving up to 1.8/3.6wpg lighting schedule.

What am I getting myself into

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Post InfoPosted 20-Sep-2006 23:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well it is done. I ordered the 48" coralife reflector.


yay. Can't wait to see the colors POP in your stems. I'm actually thinking of going with another 96w pc strip on mine. It might just be initial growth, but things are a little leggy down on the substrate and a lot of the glosso growth was straight up. I'll give it some time, though.

And nowhere, don't make fun of the tiger barbs....they are still one of my fav fish ever.

I think the apistos will be fine in there too. Not an ideal situation, but I think it should work fine. There's lots of cover and plenty of room.



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Post InfoPosted 21-Sep-2006 00:04Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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So I'm moving up to 1.8/3.6wpg lighting schedule.

What am I getting myself into
Yeah whatever. I am running 3.25/6.5wpg. I think the 6.5 is now up to around 2 hours. About 10 minutes after that light comes on the plants pearl like crazy! Overall lights is only at 9-10 hours. No signs of bad stuff poping up in the tank though the Otos have been extra crazy eating....

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 14:40Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yeah whatever. I am running 3.25/6.5wpg

You the Man!

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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 15:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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The 48" light is pretty good, that's what I have for my new big tank now. I like Coralife fixtures, definetely good quality. Made me realize one of my rookie mistakes - I must have gone through 3 light hoods on the 46 before settling on a good one. The moral of the story, of course, is to just buy the best one you can right from the beginning, because you're wasting money in the long run.
I have the 4X65 one, and I'm interested to see how it makes a difference on your tank


Matty, I'm actually still a fan of tiger bards, I think they're absolutely beautiful... just not in their personalities. One big male killed off some smaller ones. I couldn't add anything to their tank, when i first added BN they pecked at it whenever it came out of its cave. Like little pirhanas. They used to peck at my hand when in the tank. I would love to do a 30 or so gallon species tank with them, but that's for the future. They just dont fit in with the "peaceful" planted tank theme.


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mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Sorry tetratech to take up more of the thread, but I have to put this up for nowher(you can also see the ugly beginnings of my planted tank attemptsbut my anubias IS flowering):

Attached Image:

bware!




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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 16:14Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The 48" light is pretty good

So were gonna have the same light you on your 65g and my on my 72g . So your pushing 4wpg, not as much as wings 6.5wpg, but we all can't be total animals.

BTW - everything work out O.K. with Glass Cages. I heard some iffy things about them.

Matty,
It's O.K. you could show your killer fish on my thread. Nothing scares me I have a tank full of starving cardinal tetras. They are cousins to the piranha.

EDIT: Forgot to mention when I ordered the 48" light I also orderd 10,000k and Actintic 96watt bulbs for my 36" fixutre that will go on my reef tank. So that will give my 192w on the 46g. Yep I'm almost there Matty...............


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 21:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Actually, I'm probably not going to use the 4WPG. For what I'm going for it won't be needed, but again, I just wanted it just in case someday I do decide I want to make my life harder than it is a have a full 4WPG tank

Everything went smooth with glasscages. I think a fair comparison with them is B&H camera in NYC. If you go in there and you know what you want, everything is fine. But if you go in all iffy about what youre looking for, they'll probably get a little short with you. I knew what I wanted so everything was fine. Plus the quality of the product is very good, and the price was unbeatable. No complaints.

That said, I can see where people would call them iffy. Some of their glass aquariums look sloppy in the seals on the website. I also wouldn't get a very very big tank from them, especially a rimless even though they say they'll make them. But like I said, I'm very happy with the product I got from them.

As for Matty's pic, those plants seem to be crying out, "Nitrates!... give us nitrates!!! and potassium!"


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 21:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And what the crap is that on the bottem of the tank Matty? Did your girl friend pick that out for you?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 22:05Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Boah,

Gone for a little while and when I come back I see that the light(sabre) wars have broken out .

Anyway, I find the idea of getting a longer light unit a good one, but I think I stated that a few times already

And I must have missed most of the camera talk, so no comment there.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 23:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
I would take that plant out of that plastic plant and
replant it in the substrate. Let the plant grow and
spread its roots and it will get even more nutrients.
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 23:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Frank, I guess I should have stated that the pic was taken 3 years ago now. The anubias was eventually taken out of the pot and grew to about 2 feet before I had to get rid of it this summer.

I only have 2 tanks now, none of which have blue gravel. I think for the most part the plants were crying out for light and CO2...there was plenty in the way of nitrates...maybe not potassium, but it was just a wreck of a tank. I just thought the pic was fitting for nowhers comments.

Did your girl friend pick that out for you?

*Shakes fish at wings*

Glad to hear the SW tank is coming along, I was starting to get nervous!



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Post InfoPosted 22-Sep-2006 23:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I decided to move my apistos into my 72g. They just didn't loook right in the 12g. I guess I'm more into the scape and the fish are secondary. Also the java covered mountain is perfect for a bunch of shrimps to be walking on and keeping it clean.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 16:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Good move, IMO. I thought the male looked a bit too big for the 12 as well. The shrimps will probably make that tank zero effort, cleaning up the java moss.



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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 16:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah,

Sounds like a good move to me as well. Just keep an eye on the potential territory fights that may happen soon, once they are settled it should be peaceful again, until breeding season kicks in

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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 17:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Sounds like a good move to me as well. Just keep an eye on the potential territory fights that may happen soon, once they are settled it should be peaceful again, until breeding season kicks in

Well if my saltwater tank is not successful, the 46g bow could one day be a breeder tank. I'm waiting for my lights to come in (should arrive Thursday) and I should be ready to start setting up the salt water tank.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 17:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey...I don't want to hear any of that negative thinking tetratech.

BTW what are you using for water...RO?



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Post InfoPosted 26-Sep-2006 23:33Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I guess it's become a tradition so here's my one year recap:

Initial setup of tank with just the hardscape. My wife took one look and say "Apolcalyptic" I was off to a great start.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Day 1 with plants added didn't look that much better. Nice bubble ladder on a 72g.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Day 14 brought nice plant growth but with it Greenwater and a willow tree.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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By day 30 I beat back the GW and the tank saw some nice lush growth.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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At 3 months the lush growth was gone, due probably to an underdose of macros.



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tetratech
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But the depleted plant groupings gave me a chance to order some new plant species.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Jumping ahead to 6 months, the "Stellaromatica" clearly become the dominate plant in my setup:



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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At 9 months IMO the tank kinda peaked and took on it's lushest look yet.


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At 10 months I started to cut back some of the wisteria to make room for more of a beachfront with more riccia, rock and blyxa.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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At 11 months I took the riccia into the midground of the tank.




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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 04:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
During the year I certainly had my down points, which included: greewwater, fert deficienies, some interesting comments that included: "..your center rock looks like Hendrix with a frow", "crushed crab legs", "still life", but overall I received far more positive comments so I think it was an up year. Special thanks to LF, Nowher, Wings, Matty, Tankwatcher for posting in the thread and of course to Bensaf who pretty much schooled me and forced me to stick with EI even when it was as alien as ET. Anyway here is the tank at 1 year. After adding these big ricca pieces to the midground the tank still needs some fine-tuning. So the pursuit of perfection goes on....



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Very nice review tetra but I wish you would have really shown the GW! It was really bad in there if I remember right. For the newer people the green water being gone didn't have much to do with the willow trees but the UV.

Did you add more cards? I count 16!

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 13:59Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well tetratech,

Thank you so much for your annual update, it shows how the tank evolved over time in just a few pictures. If there would have been a competition (which was not the case) on who of us has achieved more (in the scaping department, at least) during that one year then you would have been easily the winner (everyone who would say otherwise just doesn't want to hurt me, ).

After a relative short ride-in time you started to successfully change small things in the tank to make it look better and better, very nice.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 14:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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BTW...

See my log!

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 15:05Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Well, LF I see you started a very interesting trend. Nice to see your journey, tetratech.

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks all for the comments. Looking forward to seeing yours one day Tankwatcher.

BTW - Did anyone notice the cardinals in the middle of the tank on the last shot. I've noticed better schooling behavior since I reduced the species of tetras. Probably just coincedence.


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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 16:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Probably just coincedence
I don't think so. You may remember that I once wrote about the schooling of my Espei (not tetras - I know). When the group was really large there was no schooling at all anymore as fish were everywhere. Once reduced in numbers, the schooling started again.

I see the same possibility with your tank. There was just no need to school.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 17:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I don't think so. You may remember that I once wrote about the schooling of my Espei (not tetras - I know). When the group was really large there was no schooling at all anymore as fish were everywhere. Once reduced in numbers, the schooling started again.

Thanks, but in this case the reduction is with other species of tetras not the cardinals.



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Same deal tetratech,

Schools form because the fish stay in formation if there is too much open space in which a potential predator may hide. If fish are in the open everywhere then there is no space left for a predator anymore, or he would have eaten one of the fish already.

Ergo: Fish, not even from the same species but similar in size and as such similar "food" for predators, will see no need to hold formation if there is no chance that they will be in danger.

At least this is my reasoning,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 17:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Did you add more cards? I count 16!
I saw the Cards. They look nice. What is your count!

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 17:49Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I saw the Cards. They look nice. What is your count!

I've had 22/23 for a long time now. I'm actually thinking about adding 10 more, but not before I get rid of the rainbow. It's a beautiful fish, but it really doesn't fit in the tank and makes a difficult to feed all the cichlids, let alone the waste he produces. Once gone I think all of my fish will be south american.

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Nice Summary there tetratech. I really have to say I like the current version the best. The extra DW peice really stands out along with more of the riccia rocks. I know the stems in back probably aren't full due to the addition of the DW so once those fill back in it will be even nicer.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 19:07Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for the comments Matty. Needs some tweaking but I like the current pics too.

Well I guess it's fitting that I'll be starting off the second year of the tank with a new lights that should be arriving today. I'm going from 192 to 260watt total. Hopefully it wasn't a mistake and the tank can handle it.
I guess if it's too much light it would be a good excuse to use the new 4 foot fixture on a 5 foot tank.

With the new lights, I did think about making a fresh start and tearing the tank down and build something completely different. Maybe that's a good plan keep the tank for a year for better or for worse and then try something new every year. Unfortunately I don't think I would have the time to do that right now and besides I do have the darkside tank to setup shortly.

Another concern is the light will make the plants grow faster and I'll have to trim even more. The "10 second tidy" coined by Bensaf will become a "20 second tidy" and believe me 10 seconds a day adds up One thing I like right now is the growth rate of the riccia. It grows fine by not so fast that I'm constantly trimming it. The foreground riccia pearls at times, but the midgrond stuff is another story. With the new lights I'll probably have to trim all of it more, not to mention the pearling gives the riccia more boyancy and pulls it away from the attached rock.

Here's a pic through the side last nite showing massive riccia pearling and the rotala joined in too. This is true pearling and not based on a water change.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 19:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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As you know I am running 260W on my 40G now for a few weeks. I have found that my growth hasn't really taken off that much but the plants pearl much more often. I don't think they are trying to get to the light as fast being they are getting good light.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Sep-2006 20:16Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice pearling there tetratech..I'd love to see a nice supermacro of that...It would make me want to get a 125G full of pearling riccia so I can lay down in it.

IMO the real limiting factor for actual upwards growth in most well lit aquaria is not light. It's the other stuff like CO2 and N and P. I kinda agree with wings. I haven't noticed faster upward growth with more light(as compared to my 38g with 2ish wpg), actually less. Most things tend to grow bushier instead. I have noticed more growth from the chain swords and the baby's tears have really startled me with their rate of growth.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 01:22Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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the real limiting factor for actual upwards growth in most well lit aquaria is not light. It's the other stuff like CO2 and N and P. I kinda agree with wings. I haven't noticed faster upward growth with more light(as compared to my 38g with 2ish wpg), actually less. Most things tend to grow bushier instead. I have noticed more growth from the chain swords and the baby's tears have really startled me with their rate of growth.

Well I hope that applys to the riccia as well. Bushier sounds good!

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Post InfoPosted 28-Sep-2006 01:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'll watch what happens with your light very lots of interest. I couldn't decide for longest time what light to get for my still empty 4ft. Firstly I paid & ordered the 48" light, then I rang the guy put it on hold while I thought about putting the 3ft light on the 4ft tank. He kept telling me the legs wouldn't work, but the light manufacturer said he'd make a 4ft light, but only put the light fittings of a 3 footer in there. As usual, I procrastinated for the longest time - but when I saw you've ordered the 4footer, I did the same.

So, I'll really be interested to see how it goes. I think bushier growth, rather than upwards growth, sounds good too. Upward growth just means more frequent trimming.

Can't wait to see all that bushy new growth in your tank.

Cheers
TW
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well I installed the new light today. Some pros and cons right off the bat:

Pros:
-Consistent light across the entire tank. I could really see my riccia in the corners now.
-It's easier to clean the glass top, since the light isn't sitting on the top but is up on the 1.5 inch legs.
-Visually it looks alittle nicer that the light is the length of the tank.

Cons:
-Becuase the light is raised 1.5 inches it lights up the glass top as well, showing off the dirt, etc. I guess I'll be clean this more often.
-It's very tempting to go without the glass top, which I'm sure one could do, but you see all the braces on the AGA tank.
-And the biggest con is that it makes me want a braceless tank even more

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Post InfoPosted 30-Sep-2006 16:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Can we see a picture of the tank with the new light, pretty please.

Cheers
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I am with Robyn,

Can we see a shot of the whole tank with the new light in place?

Also, what is your plan for lighting hours?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 01-Oct-2006 15:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It may not look like I follow this thread, but I do. This and LITTLE_FISH thread are so much fun to read, but I hardly post.

I'd like to see a full shot with the new lights, also.
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
-Visually it looks alittle nicer that the light is the length of the tank.
Really? Prove it!

-It's very tempting to go without the glass top, which I'm sure one could do, but you see all the braces on the AGA tank
Yeah don't do it. I did it for quite a while on my tank. I didn't mess up the fixture but if I kept going with it I might have. When I pulled my bulbs to throw into the Current I found one of the screws that holds in the reflecters a bit rusty. Trust me it does look much nicer but we don't want fish tank caused house fires. Your wife will never let you have a fish tank again! And that my friend would be

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Post InfoPosted 05-Oct-2006 14:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Heloooooo...... 's for echo.

*taps foot impatiently for explanation of prolonged absense*





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Post InfoPosted 16-Oct-2006 23:23Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Methinks tetra has moved on to "greener" pastures...


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Post InfoPosted 17-Oct-2006 17:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Without even saying goodbye

but you can't fool me....he still visits.

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Post InfoPosted 17-Oct-2006 17:51Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I am telling you:

Either he is busy with his new dark side project and wants to keep it a secret until it is set up,
Or he is about to win some major scaping award and wants to await the results,
Or he is bored of us

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 17-Oct-2006 20:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well, Matty, I'm glad that is evidence that he is ok & no tradgedy prevents him joining in, and that is a relief.

Cheers
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TETRA SPEAKS!!

Sorry for my disappearing act, but it wasn't based on moving to greener pastures or winning a scaping contest or anything exotic. It was actually based on a bet I made with my wife, let me explain:

I do research for large corporations. These projects are usually large and take alot of time to complete. Most of the time I'm able to stagger my deadlines, but over the past few weeks I had many projects that were due at the same time. My wife saw me on FP and said "see that's why your up all nite, yada, yada, yada... So hence the bet, stay off FP for a month. Although I have checked in here and there (couldn't fool the DIY Man) I haven't posted since Sept 30th. I'm almost thru with the tough part of my schedule and the month period will end soon, so I will be back. Looking forward to catching up, looks like some interesting changes are going on with everyone's tanks. Looking forward to discussing (LF style extreme makeover) and talking alittle herpetology with Matty.

BTW - Other than the riccia in the corners growing better, I haven't noticed much change since installing the new light.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Oct-2006 14:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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He is alive!

I might have to make one of those bets with my wife too as she has called me out for playing on here a lot!

Have a good one and look forward to having you back!

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Post InfoPosted 19-Oct-2006 14:45Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yep I finally got permission for a non-fish setup.....the frog just had to be "cute" . Can't wait fo some input on those guys from you....but I won't be getting them real soon so no rush.

Good to know you're just busy. Give us a heads up next time.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Oct-2006 15:39Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Well,

Glad to hear that the only reason you didn't post is some silly bet

Good idea to keep updated with the happenings here, I always loose track when I am not around for even a week.

Til soon,

Ingo

PS: Of course I checked your profile daily and knew that you are around, but don't tell the DIY Man


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Post InfoPosted 19-Oct-2006 17:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Hey tetratech

How is the new light going? Any issues? Can we see a shot with the new light?

Cheers
TW
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With out pictures to prove otherwise we are all going to have to guess that your tank, tetra, is covered in algea. Proof is in the picture!

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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 15:19Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks for the interest guys, but I've decided to make some changes. Please stay tuned:



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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 20:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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WOOHOO!!! Tetra's thread can continue now!!! /:'


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Post InfoPosted 09-Nov-2006 21:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Now I am sure that he will surprise us real good.

A 2000G full wall planted tank paradise?
An African Cichlid tank with no plants?
Low tech?
Riccia Heaven?

What is it?

Ingo


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What is it?
Some funny guy with his head stuck in his fish tank!



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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 14:50Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Ahhh....the speculation runs rampant like a plague of mass proportions.

My guess is it's just a bit of rearrangement/exchangement of the hardscape, maybe a new plant or two. I doubt he'd go low tech or non-planted after investing in a new fixture.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 18:52Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Good call on the lights Matty:

Actually my current tank lineup/status is as follows:

72G - Hightlight planted
Under construction/refresh

46G - Saltwater
My problem is location. I definitely want to go with sump and it will be too noisy for bedroom. So I might have to change this to a corner tank for den, which would require me to buy a new corner (55g) and stand. I could corner the 46G bow, but I would still need a stand for it.
Current equipment includes: amiracle slimline sump (which I plant on removing biotray/drip and simply using a sock and skimmer and alot of liverock) Mag 9 pump, livesand, 192watt cf light, overflow, heater

12G - Lowlight planted
Looks good, no problems, but I'm deciding if I want to keep this tank long-term, it get's kinda boring after a while and it's in a location (pantry/bar hallway) that I don't spend alot of time in. (except when I'm stealing the kids snacks) One thing I've learned, don't put a tank where your not gonna be spending some time.

0.5G - Definitely enjoy these little nanos, so much in fact I gave it a brother. So now I have a second 0.5G going on now.

I'm debating whether I want to scrape the 12G and put another hi-light co2 tank in my bedroom and eventually have the saltwater in the den.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Nov-2006 19:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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72G - Hightlight planted
Under construction/refresh
I know I know! Slow moves! But I want to see some pictures!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 16:25Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I know I know! Slow moves! But I want to see some pictures!

Wings you know I'm a "Drama Queen"
I might have some pics later in the weekend /:'

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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 17:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I know I know! Slow moves! But I want to see some pictures!

Wings you know I'm a "Drama Queen"
I might have some pics later in the weekend /:'

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 17:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Can't wait to see the updates tetra

I'm guessing it had to do with a massive pull up of the wisteria because that hasn't been done in a while. The riccia was spreading, I expect that trend to continue. My guess is it's no longer rock-centric, but mor ewood-centric maybe?

I don't know if tetra was ambitious enough to pull up the substrate and have a sand foreground, but I wouldn't put it past the protist destroyer...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 18:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I'm guessing it had to do with a massive pull up of the wisteria because that hasn't been done in a while. The riccia was spreading, I expect that trend to continue. My guess is it's no longer rock-centric, but mor ewood-centric maybe?

I don't know if tetra was ambitious enough to pull up the substrate and have a sand foreground, but I wouldn't put it past the protist destroyer...




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Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 18:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I think Nowher might have hit on something! I guess I will have to keep my cool to find out!

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19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 17-Nov-2006 20:06Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
The return of the 72 Bowfront

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Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 03:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc


Amazing tetra! How are we soposed to keep up with that? I don't even know what to say!

Dang.......

Tell us about how you did it and such? Any problems? Do you have any pictures of the process?

Wow...

Your tank is now my wallpaper!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 04:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Very Interesting Tetratech

I am with Wings, I surely would like to know more about the process of the change, the physical as well as the psychological (what made you do it) parts of it.

It looks very nice, and I see that you maintained most of your plant species. Are you intending to keep the Wisteria or will it all be replaced by Riccia once you have enough of it?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 10:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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I would also like to request some close ups. If I may...

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19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 15:11Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the comments guys and Wings I'm honored to have my tank represent part of your wallpaper collection. I'm not worthy.

As I think I had mentioned this was a refresh and not a total redo. I think I just got alittle bored and felt it was time for a change. I had seen a few pics of tanks with a two islands through my web-travels and when looking at the beach front I already had, it was easy for my to invision just "wrapping the beachfront all the way around into two islands. Basically I went out and bought 6 or 7 good size pieces of petrified wood that I needed to add to the tank. During a water change I pushed some of the eco toward the sides and held it back with some of the new rocks. Once the "islands" were established I replanted the stems, etc. After doing this there was still alot of eco left in the middle, but instead of using a net and making a mess I siphoned it out with a hose. This took out the eco and the dirty water. This I did over several water changes so I left the tank with less and less eco in the middle over the course of several weeks. Doing it over several weeks was necessary because the large siphon sucked out so much water that I had to stop to refill the tank it also fit into my "slooow moves" MO.

The only problem I ran into was since it was a refresh and not a redo from scratch some of the rocks were resting on the eco so when I got to the end of the eco some of the rocks on the island to the left started to shift so to prevent a collapsed I left some of the eco on the bottom and covered it with some flat shale rocks I had. This prevented the eco from mixing with the sand which I poured on top of the rocks. It also allowed me to use less sand than I would have had to.

Additional plant species is a Crypt (one on each island) and I also added a lotus (right foreground) that I happened to find at the LFS when I was buying the rocks.
(I also found an Anubias Nana that I added to the 12g).
This is my first crypt and the store didn't know what it was, so maybe you guys can give me some pointers and help me ID. I try to post a closer shot.

One minor issue when you do a tank with two areas of different substrate are bottom-dwellers. In this case the kuli loaches are mixing some of the eco into the sand on the sides, but I knew that would happen and I could just suck that out and throw more sand in. The sand is the same pool filter sand I used in the in 12g. One 50lb bag is like $7.

Anyway thanks again for the feedback and Happy Turkey Day!


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Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 22:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Very nice "refresh" indeed. Was it messy adding the sand with water & fish in there? I added some ADA soil to my tank, with fish & water there (although less than half full) and left myself with a filthy mess & temporarily rehoused the fish until things cleared.

You had no such issue?

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 22-Nov-2006 23:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Very nice tetratech

Looks equally good, which I couldn't have expected any redo or refresh to instantly match the last tanks good looks. I'm inpressed as always. Happy Thanksgiving to you too!



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Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 05:39Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Cup_of_Lifenoodles
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Very attractive.

Question; are you going to do anything with the two extreme sides of the tank? The empty space looks rather barren, although, to your credit, I cannot aquascape for the life of me, and the tank is already looking gorgeous.
Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 07:31Profile AIM MSN PM Edit Delete Report 
Tainted Glory
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I love the new layout. Everything looks fantastic. I've stared at your last pic for a few minutes trying to come up with something critical and insightful. My only complaint is that it is too symmetrical, if that makes any sense? I'd like to see something one on island to mix is up. Heck, maybe some brancy driftwood on one side would do the trick. But please, post more pics! I'm going to reread this thread from page one now!
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ricanboy57
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i don't think it's real! lol. it's just too perfect. i've seen people do (what i call) "the-spilt-tank" and it has never looked that good. I think there mistake and what i like about yours is that it's not overdone on each side. You get the idea with the different colored sand you don't need a dense towering forest on each side.

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Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 12:00Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Boredom,

The situation that sets in once a tank is "finished" and no new tanks can be set up and as such way too much time is available for the hobbyist to think. In your case, it turned out very well.

Thanks for the detailed, and extremely helpful, info on the process of performing this change, but, like Robyn, I am curious about how you managed to add the sand in a filled tank.

About the tank in itself:

I believe your "Two Sides of Paradise" shot (nice name, BTW) is not head on, right? As such it only appears that the "halves" are actually equally sized but in reality the right side is larger. Correct?

There is one thing that I am not too keen about (I know, how can I criticize your tank if mine doesn't even look remotely as well, but I do it anyway ): You have now two different colored beach fronts, the sand and a small stripe of Eco in the front. I would either plant all the way to the front (probably not the best) or slowly keep on replacing the eco there with sand.

Do you remember "Rock Valley"? What I liked about it was that is seemed to have been a cut in the landscape, as if the earth opened and shifted an existing scape apart. As such, the two sides were striving to come back together again. What I want to say, and that is only my personal preference, it would be nice if your halves would not be separated by heart but by nature and if the scape could mimic that. How? - By emphasizing the rift edges as you have partially done already. Thinner branches from both islands reaching towards each other (and as such towards the gap) may be the solution. But again, that may well be just me

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 13:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the commments everyone! I must be doing something right to have some new posters in my thread.

Let's see, oh yeah the sand that Robyn and LF inquired about. As I mentioned it's pool filter sand, I filled a bucket about one-third the way up and rinsed it repeatedly with the hose from the backyard. Swirling it with my hand and rinsing until it looked pretty clear. I used a plastic cup and slowly lowered it to the bottom and slooowly poured it into the middle. I have a sand smoothing tool (remember my scaping gift from wife) that I used to spread it around. There was no cloudliness.

As far as the scape. I was going to wait longer before posting the pic to allow the stems to grow in a little fuller. LF is correct the right side is alittle bigger than the left (hard to tell from this pic), also the green extends on the right becuase of that big riccia covered rock extending over the middle. I also tried to add more depth by having rock toward the front on the left and rock toward the back on the right. As pointed out by cup-of-noodles it is a little barron on the sides, but the real focus is the chasm and I like to keep things simple with fewer species. It's easier to see the focal point that way. Right now this is actually a very easy setup to maintain. A few stems, the stargrass has been reduced to one small cluster to the right back of the void.

The two issues with the tank that LF did bring up are one the wood. Everything in the tank other than some new rocks, crypt and a lotus were all in my previous arrangement, but I am considering branchier wood for the middle that would overhang the chasm below. I was going to acquire some before posting the pic, but what the hell.

The other is the beachfront. Do I make it all green by covering the eco with glosso, hc or do I swap out the eco for more sand. I'm sure I'll try it both ways before I'm done?

I guess I have alot to ponder over turkey today

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Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 15:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I guess I have alot to ponder over turkey today
- don't we all?

Anyway, that's what keeps it interesting. I am very glad you did not wait to show us a picture until all is said and done. Viewing a tank in progress is very exciting, at least for me.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Nov-2006 17:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Can't say much 'cos I'm in the middle of moving house

But it's a stunning tank. Much more life and interest then the old "still life". Great job, really nice vision. Much more depth in this one. You've come a looooonnnnggggg way, my friend. AGA entry ?

Slight niglle the big piece of wood may be a bit too square. But that's a minor thing. Could be easily swapped if you found more interesting pieces later.

Can't see the crypts so can't id. Close ups??

Sorry got to get back to packing.

And trying to figure our how to move my tanks. Only going half a mile down the road but it may as well be across the world it's so chaotic.




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Post InfoPosted 24-Nov-2006 14:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
DeletedPosted 24-Nov-2006 14:24
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for the comments Bensaf, especially during your move. I think my wife and I have moved 7 times since we were married so I know how stressful that could be. Although in all the time I never had tanks to move as well.

As I was placing the rocks, I could hear your words about depth, depth. I guess having a chasm running from front to back doesn't hurt in that department. Yeah I'll be swapping out some rocks and most definitely the wood especially the one on the left. As I mentioned the wood and many of the rocks are from the other setup. I'll probably be placing a Manzanita wood order. I'm thinking branchy pieces. I'm gonna try and post some more pics to help ID the crypt, etc. soon.

Does your move mean we get to see another setup of your 60g.

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Post InfoPosted 24-Nov-2006 16:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A couple of shots (not the greatest) of the lotus and crypt additons. I'm sure there common varieties, but I'm not really up on my these plants.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 04:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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and the lotus:





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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 04:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I'd say that's either red or bronze wendtii, and red tiger lotus. Nice little splash of color



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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 05:01Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I think Bensaf once identified this crypt for me, so in his own words (to be found on page 101 in my log):
I believe the first one to be Lutea.They get quite big about 8ins.

Albeit the review of the picture in my log on page 100 makes it seem different, by now the leaf coloration and shape looks just like in your picture.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 12:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the IDs. The red tiger lotus reminds me of a banana plant. It's not even planted, just sandwiched between two rocks.

Yes the Crypt does look like yours LF. Do the original leaves usually survive? There is actually another one on the rightside, but it is smaller and still hidden.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 14:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Do the original leaves usually survive?
All I know is that mine took forever to settle and in the process most, if not all, original leaves desintigrated. But that may well be the "special" conditions in my tank at that time, where one algae outbreak followed another and Excel treatments (which I think have an influence on crypts) were the norm.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 15:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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First of all, I just want to congratulate myself on caling this a few weeks ago. Thank you, thank you


Oh yeah, and tetra, that looks pretty wonderful. Very Senske like, I love it. Nice colors, nice depth. Well done!

P.S. ditto LF's comments about boredom Although even Ammano says that a tanks lifespan can be no more than a year, and that an overhaul may be necessary that often.


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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 16:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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First of all, I just want to congratulate myself on caling this a few weeks ago. Thank you, thank you

Next time your going to "call it" can you draw me a schematic. It would make it alot easier

Thanks for the comments. I guess you could refer to me as the other Jeff

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Post InfoPosted 25-Nov-2006 16:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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even Ammano says that a tanks lifespan can be no more than a year
One full year? I cannot wait that long

"The Other Jeff" - does that mean that from now on I can order my ADA stuff directly from you?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Nov-2006 13:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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tetratech

As everyone says, a stunning re-do. Very clever to, it looks like it should be easy to look after too. Not many of those fast growing stems. Is it easy to look after?

Also, I know you have told me before, but I can't remember if it was in my log or yours. What are the dimensions of your tank. How is the new 4ft light going?

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 27-Nov-2006 23:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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The Other Jeff" - does that mean that from now on I can order my ADA stuff directly from you

Yes you can. I'll take a slight markup to put the "other Jeff" stamp of approval on it.

Also, I know you have told me before, but I can't remember if it was in my log or yours. What are the dimensions of your tank. How is the new 4ft light going?

My tank is a 48"x 18" x 22", although the 18" is misleading because it's only 18" at the widest part of the bow. The sides of my tank only measure a slim 12.5".

I haven't seen much difference with the new light in terms of growth of the stems. Biggest difference is the consistency of the light into the corners of the tank. Here's a full tank shot of the stems filling out and some overgrown blya on the right side.

Attached Image:


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 04:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Focusing on the two big blyxa mounds on the right. The one nearest the valley is a hugh rock covered with the stuff, but the other one more to the right foreground is actually a small rock and the blyxa has grown very full trying to float. The line on this pic shows you were the hairnet covered rock actually is. All the other growth is ricca on ricca with the fullness created by the riccia's own buoyancy.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 04:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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Are we talking about riccia or blyxa in the last two posts?.....cause I'm getting confused.

Anyhow, looks great. There's something about the newest picture that is 10X better than the first one you showed us of your new setup. It seems less grainy or more focused or something. I can't put my finger on it.



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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 06:01Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Are we talking about riccia or blyxa in the last two posts?
I am sure we are talking Riccia, cut the old man some slack .

Nice shots tetratech You know, if you get a chance then do me a favor and document a Riccia trimming for me. I am very courious about the individual steps (with photos, please).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 11:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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am sure we are talking Riccia, cut the old man some slack


Yes, LF is right we are talking riccia. Sorry Matty, I had a senior moment. Wait to you have 3 kids, fish tanks and a hairy dog.

LF, yes I'l try to document the trimming of the riccia. Actually that rock in question I'll probably trim over the next couple of days.


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 13:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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yes I'l try to document the trimming of the riccia.
Excellent, I am really looking forward to it. I am most certain that it will help quite a few people in learning how to trim this plant (or to discuss what they would do differently and why).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 14:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yes seeing how you trim this stuff will be highly useful to me as I am getting ready to trim some myself.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 28-Nov-2006 15:00Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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tetratech

Thanks for the full shot & tank info.

I'd like to see the riccia trimming. I remain ever hopeful that one day I will be doing this too.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 00:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetra,

Do you have any problems letting the Riccia get that thick on top of itself? I know mosses will start to die if they are overly thick, does riccia have the same problem?

Also, looking around in my tank I have found that some riccia has been floating around and getting caught in my Java moss. It is actualy growing well there.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 15:18Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Do you have any problems letting the Riccia get that thick on top of itself? I know mosses will start to die if they are overly thick, does riccia have the same problem?

Believe it or not if I cut off the top half of that big mound it's just as green in the middle as it is on top. I do notice some die-off closer to the rock itself. I think it also depends on where the riccia is in the tank. If it's somewhat shaded there might be more die-off higher up.

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Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 16:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don't think I've commented on this tank in a while... let's just say that I was stunned into silence I really like this new setup, it looks simply gorgeous, but with these sand strips I always wonder how it'll look in the long term.

One of my worries for example would be how to keep it clean? when I suck away debris and dirt during water changes I often end up getting quite a bit of the substrate along, doesn't the same happen with the sand? Or do you just add fresh sand after each change? You did mention the kuhlis mixing up some of the substrate with the sand, are those the only fish you have that do such things? Adding cories would be a complete no-no then, correct?

I'm still thinking about a makeover of my own tank, and something like this would look greta, but honestly, I'm afraid to do such things

Final question: How much time a week do you spend maintaining this? (I'm curious whether I could keep to a way of living like that )
Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 17:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Thanks for the info tetra. I will let mine grow out a little bit longer before I give it a trim. It might be almost an inch tall off the rock right now. Riccia grows much faster than I thought it would. I should have known better if I paid more attention to your log. Look how much riccia you have after having just enough for a single rock.

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Post InfoPosted 29-Nov-2006 17:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thank you for those nice comments Dr. Now if I could stun my wife into silence that would really be something.

One of my worries for example would be how to keep it clean? when I suck away debris and dirt during water changes I often end up getting quite a bit of the substrate along, doesn't the same happen with the sand? Or do you just add fresh sand after each change? You did mention the kuhlis mixing up some of the substrate with the sand, are those the only fish you have that do such things? Adding cories would be a complete no-no then, correct?

As with other fine-grained substrate some will come out during gravel washing/water changes, but not really that much. If you squeeze the tubing leading to the gravel washer when the sand is the wide part of the washer, most of the sand will fall back into the tank. The sand is also not the finest grain, it's pool filter sand and it's really in the middle of fine sand and regular gravel in terms of grain size.

The more bottom feeders the more issues one would probably have, but it also depends on how well you separate the two substrates. If rocks are choosen that fit nicely together that hold back the other substrate the kulis or other bottom feeders would have a harder time mixing the substrates. In my case it's not the greatest because I didn't start from scratch some of the rocks weren't even moved from the previous setup so I'll probably have to remove some sand and yes add some fresh sand. Good thing about pool filter sand is the cost. It's about $5 to $7 for 50lbs. I have a 50lb bag in my gargage.

In terms of maintenance time. I don't think it will be that bad, since much of the real estate is hardscape and wisteria. The wisteria is really a very easy plant to trim. It takes very well to just cutting the tops anytime and anywhere. Other than that there are only a few bunches of stems and of course the riccia. The riccia is good for at least a month before I have to trim or completely remove the hairnet covered rock and replace the hairnet with fresh riccia (about 3 minutes per rock.)

I think bensaf once used the term "10-Minute Tidy" this is pretty much what I do. When I pass the tank and something doesn't look right I tidy it up. I'm fortunate that I work from home alot and am able to do this on a regular basis. I once discussed this before with LF and other members. It makes things easy to maintain. I still do my weekly water change and trim whatever is necessary.

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Wow. I really love the new look. I've been to Jeff's gallery here in Houston and your tank could be picked up and dropped off in the show room and people would be none the wiser.

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Now if I could stun my wife into silence that would really be something


Well said, tetratech.

Say, don't you think that you could get some small rocks and over time start to separate the substrate and the sand anyway? Sounds doable to me and for sure would help you in the long run.

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Post InfoPosted 03-Dec-2006 15:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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tetra,

meant to ask you, is that still Eco?


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tetratech
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meant to ask you, is that still Eco?

Yep still eco. I'm not that ambitious. What made you ask?

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NowherMan6
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Something about the texture just looks different, looks more consistent maybe, fuller - whereas Eco is a mixture of fine grains and larger grains. I thought maybe you had switched to AS.


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Something about the texture just looks different, looks more consistent maybe, fuller - whereas Eco is a mixture of fine grains and larger grains. I thought maybe you had switched to AS.

You have a good eye. The replacement bags that I received from Carib-sea after I realized I had corrupted eco where much smaller grain overall. In fact much of the eco is the same grain size as the pool filter sand. I have heard other aquarist state the same thing about the grain size.
I gave the front area a good gravel during the makeover and much of the smaller grain size is on top.


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tetratech
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Really strange, my Aromatica has stalled. Looks healthy it just doesn't seem to be growing. I've already upped all dosing to make sure nothings bottomed out.

My only thought (it's a stretch) could the change in lights be having some affect a few months later or has my eco bottomed out an the Aromatica likes to feed from the roots.



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I wish I could help you tetratech, but me being the master of the 100% static tenellus does not give me any credentials here

I can't think of anything in particular either, did you up the micros as well?

I don't know how this plant feeds either. Also, I don't know if the plant may go through a stagnant phase like a few other plants do, Apons come to mind here.

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Interesting point about the eco being "used up" - is it normally a heavy root feeder? Have you pulled it up before and looked at it?


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tetratech
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I can't think of anything in particular either, did you up the micros as well?


Thanks LF. Yeah I've increased micros as well. This happened to me a long time ago with rotala and stargrass when I used to chop the tops all the time. I wasn't sure if that was due to a no3 shortage or chopping the tops one too many times.

Other thoughts:
Can only move stems so many times, before plant stalls.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 19:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Missed your post Nowher, Yes the Aromatica does put down a pretty heavy root system.

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NowherMan6
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How long have you had this plant - and how many times have you trimmed and replanted tops? You may be right, it may just be that the vitality has run out of these stems, and they may need to be replaced.


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tetratech
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How long have you had this plant - and how many times have you trimmed and replanted tops? You may be right, it may just be that the vitality has run out of these stems, and they may need to be replaced.
All my aromatica are from my original 1 stem order from about a year ago. My gut tells me you are right. I think you can only get so much mileage from a stem. I don't see this discussed much.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 19:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Occasionally, the plant suddenly stops growing but after a while adventitious shoots will normally develop and the plant resumes growth.


I found the above quote on a website selling Eusteralis stellata, which is what my plant was sold as, but it was determined to be Aromatica by the majority of experienced planted tank gurus.

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Occasionally, the plant suddenly stops growing ...
Hey, that would be pretty close to my last guess

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 22:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Hey, that would be pretty close to my last guess


Your right you did say that. What do you think of Nowher's comment that a stem might run out of vitality.

I could put the eco question to bed by buying some root tabs and putting them under the aromatica. It's definitely not a deficiency in ferts, because I've upped everything.

Some plants just might grow fuller with very good substrate (Bensaf not around anyway to scold me)
But take alook at Nowher' Blyxa. It's very full in that ADA Magic Mud, but mine doesn''t grow nearly as full even with 3.6wpg, heavy co2 and ferts.


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Post InfoPosted 08-Dec-2006 22:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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But take alook at Nowher' Blyxa
It is made out of plastic, that's why it looks sooooo good

What do you think of Nowher's comment that a stem might run out of vitality
Hm, I know too little about biology to make a solid statement, but I doubt it. It is not like fish were inbreeding may lead to infertility or othere reasons why no new fry may survive. What would be the reason for plants to stop growing? Do they think "yeah, almost at the light" and then you come with the scissors and they say "darn, short again, I have enough of this"?

I think as long as there is everything a plants needs to grow it will do so, and if this requires a "rest" period, then it will continue after that.

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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
This question has been on my mind quite a bit too. A good hand full of my plants just are not growing like they used to. I can't quite figure out why. Granted I haven't been really great about water changes or ferts latly but I would still think that the plants would do something. None look like they are in bad shape but seem to be stalled in growing.

Substrate might have a bit to do with this. How old is yours right now? Mine (flourite)is at about 1.25 years. It wouldn't hurt to try some root tabs just to see what happens.

I also wonder if the plants just need a break from growth every once in a while. We do seem to push the growth factor with our high light, CO2, and heavy ferts. Maybe they just can't take it forever. Now if this were the case why would all my plants stall at the same time?

BTW ~ come see ~ http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/28915.15.htm?357#

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Post InfoPosted 11-Dec-2006 15:23Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Regarding the "vitality of stems" thing, i know I've read Amano talking about it. Actually, I'm pretty sure he writes something to that effect in the same issue of TFH that Ingo's espei article appears in. He redoes a lot of those stem-filled tanks once a year, give or take a few months. Wish I had the exact words in front of me, but I'll check it out later. It's an article on redoing tanks.

I think there's something to some plants just running out of gas after some time. I can't quite put my finger on it though. It doesn't seem to make sense because when you buy plants, you're essentially buying someone else's stems and clippings, right? And they last for some amount of time.

But at the same time, my eyes and experience - and input from the experiences of others - say otherwise.

I'll look for that article when I get home.

It's very full in that ADA Magic Mud, but mine doesn''t grow nearly as full even with 3.6wpg, heavy co2 and ferts.


I always thought so myself, but it may be that the 26 watts about 6 inches above it help out too.

p.s. speaking of Blyxa, it does NOT like too much excel, just to warn anyone. I tried using the excel method on some BBA spots on the DW, and I guess the overdose of it spread around the tank - lots of Blyxa melting within a day. That's one of the over-looked danger of nano tanks - it's SO easy to overdose, one must always be careful.


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Post InfoPosted 11-Dec-2006 17:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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It's an interesting point. Definitely let me know if you could find the article (actually I think I have the Ingo Issue). I remember opening up the issue and saying "that tank looks familiar"

Anyway your right about the cuttings you aren't buying baby plants. I'm pretty sure there have been discussions about cutting the tops too often that's why LF and I always replant the tops with plants like stargrass. Someone else told me that Armomatica doesn't like high light above 3.5wpg, but I'm doubtful of that and I'm only running my 260watt for about 3 hours. When I looked at the aromatica this morning, I'm pretty sure I said new shoots coming out of the stems two-thirds the way up, so maybe there is a lifespan on an actual stem that you continuously replant or cut the top from, but what makes it strange is that all the aromatica stems have stopped growing which makes it seem like it's water issue, but I haven't changed anything.

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Post InfoPosted 11-Dec-2006 17:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
First, as far as Fluorite is concerned, my tank is over
13 years running and the stem plants are still going
strong, and I'm throwing the stuff away each week.

I have noticed with the stem plants, that after a while
of trimming the tops off, and either replanting them, or
throwing them away, that the bottom portions eventually
get paler, and grow with fewer leaves per inch. At that
point, I uproot what I call the "parent" and plant the
new growth tops. I've been doing it this way for years.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 11-Dec-2006 17:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Thanks for the info on the flourite Frank. Are you doing Ferts in the water too?

Everyone must be super busy. This place is dead! I even post picuters of my tank and only one person comes to check them out.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Dec-2006 14:52Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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FYI - this is from the August 2006 TFH, by Takashi Amano, page 87:

"Even when plants are trimmed at the proper stages and intervals, the stems, roots and leaves gradually age after repeated trimming and their growth slows down. As the substrate ages, the growth of aquatic plants slows down as well."

Just throwing it out there. The quote is a little ambiguous as to whether or not he's talking about newly planted stems or just the trimmed bottoms, but since the timeline he's using is a year + or - a month or two, I imagine he's talking about both, since trimmed bottoms don't usually last that long.


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Post InfoPosted 12-Dec-2006 15:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well, I'm starting to feel what Frank said and what you are quoting from Amano is true. The stems do lose their vitality after repeated usage and new shoots have to be used. When you replant the tops your using the same top over and over, but when you keep the bottom your getting new shoots from the bottom which will last longer I'd imagine if those are used. Another thing to stay on top of if you always want full lush growth in the tank.

As far as the substrate, I don't know if they are all created equal. Amano is a big believer on the substrate as opposed to dosing more. Either way the plants are getting what they need, unless some species are just better root feeders.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Dec-2006 15:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Current full tank shot:

Everything's going pretty good. Only current issues:

-Stalled Aromatica growth as discussed (see new shoots coming out on stems)
-Blyxa still not full
-Kuli loaches crawl through the rock crevices of the chasm and mix up substrate.

The tank is actually a pretty simple tank plant wise. I think the foreground and rock work allows this. There really are no background/foreground plants in my tank the riccia occupies front/mid/back, the stems are mid/back and the wisteria shows itself in all three locations in varying degrees. Look like I am winning the battle of BBA growing on some of the hardscape and a few leaves of the blyxa. I thing Bensaf is right about the substrate eventually having more and more organics as the tank ages this makes it that much more difficult to keep bba in check and of course keeping the filter clean will only help. I recently did 4 things and I can't say for certainly (can anyone) which helped the most, but the four things are did were:

1. Cleaned filter (first time in 3 months)
2. Reducing light period from about 10.5 to 8.5 hours
3. Increased Co2 a bit (Got unbelievable pearling, by 3pm everyday. It got to be actually annoying and distracting)
4. Changed lightbulb in UV, first time in over a year.

All the above simply reduced organics in the tank and the ability for algae to grow. I happen to think number 2 (light duration) helped the most. Not intensity, just duration. When the plants shut down after 8 or so hours there was no light available to the algae.



Attached Image:


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Post InfoPosted 12-Dec-2006 17:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Just noticed the lotus Very pretty

it really does come down to organics, don't it? Just keeping everything clean helps so much in keeping algae small and unnoticeable. Helps with fish health too, I'm sure.

One thing: I notice that the entire top half of your tank is empty space, and you don't have many plants that will grow high enough to occupy that space. Ever wish you had a tank with different dimensions, to frame the scape better? I know it would take away from it volume wise, but it just goes to show how hard it is to scape a bow-front style show tank. They're really suited to SW or cichlid tanks more than FW planted, IMO.


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Post InfoPosted 12-Dec-2006 17:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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One thing: I notice that the entire top half of your tank is empty space, and you don't have many plants that will grow high enough to occupy that space. Ever wish you had a tank with different dimensions, to frame the scape better?

Actually what's going on here is that I'm keeping the rotala low because the aromatica is behind it and hasn't taken off. The aromatica and rotala as they did in my previous setup are fully capable of growing to the top. If your referring to a complete background of plants and not having any black space that is something I personally don't want to get into not only from a maintenance standpoint, but also and think the use of black space can make the tank really pop.

Interesting thing about this setup and the bowfront is that the wide mouth of the chasm is inline with the widest part of the bowfront. I kinda thing it brings you into the valley. I do know what your saying about the bowfront tanks though and my next tank will probably not be bowfront just so I can have something different.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Dec-2006 17:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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That looks real nice tetratech. One thing on the aromatica...you said you cut the light duration, my guess is you are seeing less growth from it for that reason. I do agree that reducing light will reduce algae growth though, but there are some trade offs. My glandulosa doesn't like the reduced light schedule much either it's not as deep red/purple anymore. It's even showing some green. I haven't changed anything with the ferts, so I doubt it's that.



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Post InfoPosted 12-Dec-2006 18:21Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
You know that is a beautiful tank. You guys should start
entering some of them in the various shows such as the
annual AGA show.

I do have to tease a bit though.... I look at that tank
and see the symmetry, and then "Yikes! thar's a red
weed in that garden on the right!"

Frank




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Post InfoPosted 13-Dec-2006 01:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Frank

Yeah your right about the weed, I never had a lotus so it was an impulse buy and I just kinda put it there to break up all the green. It actually doesn't look bad when it it stays low and spreads out just about the other weed "Wisteria". Maybe I could enter my tank in a weed contest since about 60% of my scape is considered weeds by many.

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Speaking of the Red Weed. Lower would be better and what if you moved it one rock over to the left?

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Post InfoPosted 13-Dec-2006 14:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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You guys should start
entering some of them in the various shows such as the
annual AGA show.
I just got done looking at the 2005 (yesterday) and the 2006 (today) AGA show. I was kind of thinking the same thing as Frank. The 2006 show was much better than the 2005 show but I think you would have done great in it tetra. Some of us others would probably get picked on a bit but we are still working on figuring things out.

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Post InfoPosted 15-Dec-2006 16:36Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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I'm late for this comment - but on the previous page, are you all saying it's okay to trim the stems from the top. It is so tedious pulling them out, cutting off the bottoms & replanting the tops. Cutting from the tops would have been sooo much easier.

Another reason I'm late for the conversation is that I didn't even read it, until after I pulled out all of my stems in 43.5G.

Other than that - back to your tank. I agree - it belongs in a competition.

Cheers
TW
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Well he could enter his tank if he was still alive!

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Post InfoPosted 31-Dec-2006 04:27Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well he could enter his tank if he was still alive!

Yeah I'm still here.

Thanks all for the contest consideration. I still don't know if mine stacks up against some tanks I've seen. Some are just incredible. Altough as I said in the past some of these tank pics are taken with thousands of dollars worth of photo equipment and it's hard sometimes to tell if it's a scaping contest or a photo contest. Remember Amano was a photographer first.


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Post InfoPosted 03-Jan-2007 23:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Very true tetra but I think that your tank would fair well with the rest. You have a nice style that is a bit different from the mainstream.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 04-Jan-2007 15:20Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well it's been some time, but here's an updated tank. As you'll see the scape is dominated by Rotala R, riccia and of course wisteria. The aromatica is still there, but has a less prominent role in the scape, since it's really hasn't been growing robust anymore and I'm too stubborn to get new stems, but I don't know if I really even need it.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 03:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Full tank shot:

I've taken the light off the legs. After looking at the tank with the legs on and off, I thought it looked better without the legs. You don't get as much glare and your not lighting up the always stained glass top. There is no problem with cracking the top since the coralife runs pretty cool



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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 03:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Tetra

I really like the center of the tank. Rock work and Riccia is quite nice!

I am not qutite so sure I like the Westeria and Rotala for some reason. Don't really have a reason right now. Let me sleep on it and I will get back to you.

Thanks for posting. I might get some shots of my tank up someday....

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 07:29Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetratech,

No nitpicking here, the tank is too nice to mention whatever minor detail may be enhanced

I like the valley you created very much, and I like how I can view the individual sides that - albeit containing the same type of plants - are in themselves very interesting. I like the mix of Riccia covered rocks with plain rocks, the occasional Blyxa poking through, the depth created even within the sides and not only with the valley, the thin sticks, the little openings on the front within the sides, and what not.

In short, it looks really nice.

I notice that you seem to let your Wisteria grow a little taller than you used to. Is that by design (as it fits very well) or is it due for a pruning?

What fish are in the tank these days?

Do you see any difference in growth ever since you removed the legs? I guess you have to take off the light when you do maintenance, right?

Enough questions, hope you find the time to answer,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 13:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I like the valley you created very much, and I like how I can view the individual sides that - albeit containing the same type of plants - are in themselves very interesting. I like the mix of Riccia covered rocks with plain rocks, the occasional Blyxa poking through, the depth created even within the sides and not only with the valley, the thin sticks, the little openings on the front within the sides, and what not.

As always your very observant and notice the small details. The rock area is still being changed and improved. It's hard to find the right rocks or break them on my gargage floor. LOL

I notice that you seem to let your Wisteria grow a little taller than you used to. Is that by design (as it fits very well) or is it due for a pruning?
Actually the wisteria does need to be trimmed. I noticed that over time (5 months or so) there is a space between the substrate and the lower level of wisteria. (Not sure why) That combined with five or six levels of the plant make it too high. When that happens I do plan on completely removing the plant, but cutting off the really nice top layers throwing out the bottoms and replanting the tops. I think this is a small price to pay since it's really easy to plant (as I'm sure you know) and it's only necessary twice a year or so and grows back in so quickly.

What fish are in the tank these days?

Well it's been a while, so let's see. Last we spoke my female double-red had the inverted stomach so she's gone, the male as well. Both my bolivians gone, probably from old age (about 2 years) I got rid of my other rainbow. I just didn't like it in the tank. It would pick on the cardinals and I also found an amano shrimp in it's mouth one day, The amano was so big the rainbow couldn't eat it, so I don't know if it found the shrimp dead or killed it.
I've taken down my 12g skull island tank. No problems with it, I was in a place were no one looked at it and it simply wasn't worth it, so the school of gold tetras (8) are in the 72g now,along with about 16/17 cardinals still going strong. The otos are still going strong as well spotting 6 of them the other water change.

Do you see any difference in growth ever since you removed the legs? I guess you have to take off the light when you do maintenance.

No, I just did it for astestic reasons. Also I have not found it necessary to remove the light for maintenance. The opening front of the glass top can be leaned against the light and I've had no problem reaching even into the back of the tank.

P.S. Wings for some reason I can't send you a PM. LF I saw you had another meeting. Nowher I you amongst the group or is no one talking? LOL

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 15:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Tetratech,

Thanks so much for answering all the questions, helps me understand the tank better.

Your plan with Wisteria trimming is similar to how I plan to trim mine in the 125. So far, I only cut off tops as I needed them in the two small tanks for ground cover. Soon I will start to do your method to reduce height in the 125.

Yes, we had another meeting, and we are going to have our 4th today. I am not planning on getting any new plants in the traditional plant swap, but so far I could not resist.

I think I will bring in the largest of the runners of my Tiger Lilly as it shades out the Riccia rock to a point where the Riccia is no longer growing. The main plant has a few more young ones on it, but they are too small to be harvested.

Have fun,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 16:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yes, we had another meeting, and we are going to have our 4th today. I am not planning on getting any new plants in the traditional plant swap, but so far I could not resist.

Must be nice to be able to trade plants, etc. Makes it much easier and more economic than buying all the time.
If you need any Riccia, let me know I have plenty, in fact in the pics it's way overgrown and actually is to dominant in the scape at the moment. Hard to notice from the full tank shot, in these pics one from each side you could see the branchy twigs (Courtesy PierOne Imports) and the different supporting plants on each side. First the right side with stargrass (small group, less maintenance), crypt.




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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 16:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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And then the left, with Lotus and what remains of my Aromatica.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 16:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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What is it about shrimp on riccia? Maybe it's just me:



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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 16:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wings for some reason I can't send you a PM
My mail box was full. Sorry about that! Send away!

What is it about shrimp on riccia? Maybe it's just me:
Oh it is not just you! I have it pretty bad too! Right now my Cherry Reds are starting to take over the tank. Some are either going to start going to the store I work at or friends I have in the hobby. Bright read CRS on anything really looks good to me.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 16:52Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice tetratech. Those are great shots...especially the amano shrimp. I can't nitpick either....except on your lack of posting, and the fact I haven't seen an update on your SW tank



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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 17:34Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice shrimpsters

And nice close-ups as well.

Hey - I just came back from our club meeting and guess what? Well, it is next week, I showed up a week too early

How embarrassing,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 20:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I showed up a week too early
Better early than late. At least now you can still go next week. As long as you don't have other things to do.

Pretty funny though!

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 10-Feb-2007 20:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Very nice tetratech. Those are great shots...especially the amano shrimp. I can't nitpick either....except on your lack of posting, and the fact I haven't seen an update on your SW tank
Can't put it better that Matty does above.

LF, hahaha. Hope next month you are not a week late.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 16-Feb-2007 15:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well It's been about a month so a few current pics. Not much really know, I have to admit I'm getting alittle bored with this tank and am debating whether I should take the whole thing down and try something completely different. I am having no issues other than the aromatica not growing.



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Post InfoPosted 11-Mar-2007 15:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A closeup shot of the left show the aromatica sort of frozen in time. Not dying, but not growing large either. These stems are new shoots that are took off the old stems and replanted. They seem to grow 5 or 6 inches at most and then stop. I've increased dosing of micros, macros and there was no change.

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Post InfoPosted 11-Mar-2007 15:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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A closeup of the right shows nice color on the rotala and you could see the crypt, wisteria worked into the valley.

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Post InfoPosted 11-Mar-2007 15:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Updated Pics start on previous page
The lotus actually looks pretty good when the leaves are smaller and lower. Here are got to big and needs to be trimmed again....



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Post InfoPosted 11-Mar-2007 15:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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...because one always makes it to the top.

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Post InfoPosted 11-Mar-2007 15:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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You certainly seem to have no difficulty in keeping the substrates so neatly separated, yet if it were me, I'm sure I would have messed things up by now.

As ever, I am impressed with the beauty of this tank.

Cheers
TW
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tetratech,

Very nice looking, as usual. Very tidy as well.

I have to admit I'm getting alittle bored with this tank and am debating whether I should take the whole thing down and try something completely different.


Makes sense to me. Your tank is done, not much to enhance, but maintenance still taking its time. But for what? Simply to look the same all the time? Booooring!!!

I think you reached the point where a tank is as good as it gets. Any change would be rather major in order to make something different of it. That's the point when some people start to buy different gadgets, like ADA stuff. That keeps them happy for a while longer, but eventually leads to the same boredom.

What are the plans?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2007 00:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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You certainly seem to have no difficulty in keeping the substrates so neatly separated, yet if it were me, I'm sure I would have messed things up by now.


Thanks Robyn, actually the substrates do mix in certain spots mostly due to the two kuli loaches I have in there. I seem them squirming through the crevices and as they go through they thrash some of the eco onto the sand. Every water change or so, I do vacumm the sand area and sometimes sprinkle new sand down. It's pool filter sand and only costs $5 for 50lbs.
Makes sense to me. Your tank is done, not much to enhance, but maintenance still taking its time. But for what? Simply to look the same all the time? Booooring!!!

I think you reached the point where a tank is as good as it gets. Any change would be rather major in order to make something different of it. That's the point when some people start to buy different gadgets, like ADA stuff. That keeps them happy for a while longer, but eventually leads to the same boredom.

What are the plans?

Thanks and yes, I agree. I'm probably going to start a new tank before I take this one down. Probably ADAish just for the reasons you stated. Not sure of the layout yet, maybe Iwagumi, maybe not.


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Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2007 18:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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As always a gorgeous setup. It always reminds me of an immaculately manicured and maintained Japanese style garden.

Just super.

Jim



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Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2007 19:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thanks and yes, I agree. I'm probably going to start a new tank before I take this one down. Probably ADAish just for the reasons you stated. Not sure of the layout yet, maybe Iwagumi, maybe not.


You know, an Iwagumi tank has even less action. With your talent you will have that sucker set up in a few weeks

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2007 20:12Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Oldtimer,
I appreciate the compliment!

You know, an Iwagumi tank has even less action. With your talent you will have that sucker set up in a few weeks

Yes you are right, I would probably setup the next tank knowing it will probably change every 6 months or so.

BTW: Meant to ask you, I'm looking to buy another regulator. I know we both had the milwaukee first, did you buy that other one from aquariumplants (the best), more pricey, but supposely higher quality. I wanted to see how you liked it. My milwaukee has a busted low pressure guage, but it stll works.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2007 20:37Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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NowherMan6
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Lookin good tetra

Thanks and yes, I agree. I'm probably going to start a new tank before I take this one down. Probably ADAish just for the reasons you stated. Not sure of the layout yet, maybe Iwagumi, maybe not.


Let me know when you have a better idea of the timing on that. I finally made some changes and I'm almost ready to start up my new 65G, so we can start competing logs for the new tanks


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2007 22:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Let me know when you have a better idea of the timing on that. I finally made some changes and I'm almost ready to start up my new 65G, so we can start competing logs for the new tanks


Tetra vs Nowher...Interesting
The King of Protist Destruction vs The King of the 4G Nano.....Exciting
New York vs New Jersey, again.............priceless!


My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 12-Mar-2007 23:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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And for everything else there is.....

Frank
(I could not resist )



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Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2007 01:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah baby


I wanted to see how you liked it.


Eh, the main difference is that the needle valve has a much finer threading. Nevertheless, I still have to tinker with it once in a while, no such thing as "set it and forget it". Also, my low pressure gauge is turned up much higher than on the other regulator, I don't know why. The needle valve seems to react more to the surrounding temperature and as such changes the bubble count when the room is warmer or colder, which is a frequent thing in my basement. Like in around freezing - colder, freezing - warmer (heater is down there too), warm weather - cooler, hot weather - warmer. Means: a lot of tinkering with the valve.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2007 13:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Hi,
I'm not sure I understand the "tinkering" with the needle
valve. My tank valve is all the way open, as it should be.
I attach the regulator firmly using plumbers tape (teflon
tape) and then open the tank valve all the way and then
back it off the seat (prevents seat damage) a 1/4 turn.

I set the regulator valve for 1 pound of pressure, and then
adjust the needle valve for the desired number of bubbles
per second (watching the pH with known KH). The only time
I have to touch the needle valve, is to close it when
changing out CO2 bottles.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2007 14:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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New York vs New Jersey, again.............priceless!


Perfect, and we can both use some identical plant species to see how they grow in NY and NJ waters. It'll be like the Iron Chef... for aquariums...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 13-Mar-2007 18:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
It'll be like the Iron Chef... for aquariums
It will be fun to follow the battle of the new Tetra vs Nowher logs. Plus I don't think I've ever seen a pic of Nowher's tanks.
but maintenance still taking its time. But for what? Simply to look the same all the time? Booooring!!!
How could looking at such a beautiful tank be booooring.

If only I could achieve something like this - which needs just needs a touch of regular maintenance, I don't think I could bring myself to tear it down.


Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 14-Mar-2007 23:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's a current pic after a massive riccia trim, so the foreground has to fill in a bit. On the other hand the rotala hasn't been trimmed and has pretty much made it to the top and has some nice color to it. What to do now? I guess instead of redoing this one at the moment, I'll have to save what's left of this old man's creative juices for a new tank which will face the envitable showdown with that checky young pup from Jersey.

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Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2007 02:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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A closeup of the rotala tips with some nice natural pearling.

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Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2007 02:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think that it looks good now that the rotala has grown upwards in the middle, it gives the little valley alot of depth.

Also, I have a question, are you selling riccia on ebay because i was browsing for plants and i saw a thing of riccia on there with a pic that looked like a portion of your tank, i don't need any though

-Vincent
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I guess Vincent found you out tetratech

No doubt this is his tank, with the offering of Rotala as well.

And the tank looks very nice, although after the trim the sand street looks a little too clean for me. But I am sure this will be more natural by itself in no time.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2007 13:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
I guess Vincent found you out tetratech

Geez, everyone knows everyone's business.

Actually it was my wife's idea, since she sells stuff on ebay. Not much action though. Maybe I'll put my whole 72g up, scaped and all. Local pickup only I'll have to get a club going here on the island so I could trade plants. There's plenty of cabomba in the lakes here.

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Post InfoPosted 21-Mar-2007 14:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Love the rotala shot When it gets near the light and it's feeling good, it gets that beautiful yellow-orange-red glow - love it.

I don't know if it's a fair fight, I've had my creative juices flowing on this 65G for a few months now I can already tell you java fern and crypts will play the lead role. But accept the challenge regardless.

or, we can make this like the Iron Chef: you, me and matty can meet somewhere in upstate new york. Then he'll say, "Today's tank special ingredient is..... corkscrew vaaaaallllssssssss!!!!!" Then we both grab a bunch and get on our respective trains home and get to work. What do you think


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The tank looks great tetratech. I do think the rotala is just a taaad tall, but looks good regardless. I'd definitely show the tank in any ebay auction.

As far as this Iron Chef style tankoff goes...I think I'm unfamiliar with the style, but sounds fun I did just get some plants today. We'll see later what I can do with it.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2007 00:08Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey I don't blame you tetra, How many plant clippings I just give away to friends, I should be selling to, its a good way to get money back from the tank since it is expensive to buy.

-Vincent
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We have a local fish club that has auctions 2x's a year. I took ten bags of stuff in and got my check for 40 bucks just the other day. I did how ever walk out with a bag of Cherry shimp to mix up my population for 15 bucks. I am guessing there was at least 10 shimp in the bag and some hatching babies.

You could also talk to a LFS to see if they will take in trades for store credit. I know my store will sometimes.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2007 02:16Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi,
At least you guys have an outlet for your surplus, I throw
hands full of plants away nearly every week.
Frank


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Post InfoPosted 22-Mar-2007 08:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Below I have reveiled my secret for algae control. If you haven't had a chance to see the national geographic special: Galapagos, do yourself a favor and see it. It was one of the most breathtaking shows I have every watched, especially in high def.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Mar-2007 04:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I don't think it will live long in your FW tank Tetra, you better give him to me for my SW tank. That's hilarious.



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Post InfoPosted 25-Mar-2007 06:32Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I don't think it will live long in your FW tank Tetra, you better give him to me for my SW tank. That's hilarious.


Spoken like a true darksider
But yes, you are right, he would fair better on the darkside.

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As good as Galpagos was, "Planet Earth" on discovery last night was amazing. The footage they had of Snow Leopards was once in a lifetime stuff. Amazing footage.


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Post InfoPosted 26-Mar-2007 15:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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As good as Galpagos was, "Planet Earth" on discovery last night was amazing. The footage they had of Snow Leopards was once in a lifetime stuff. Amazing footage.


Yeah, I caught some of it, absolutely fanastic and I know one of the shows was ocean-related, but some of the algae shots with the fish on the galapagos show hit home with this thread. Did you see the footage of the great white eating that poor sea-lion, that was unreal. I actually starting watching it with my kids, seemed like good family entertainment, but then when the animals got eaten, my little guy got pretty upset and went to bed really made at me for making him watch the show.

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Tetra,

Good thing you don't have Oscars or Piranhas!



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Post InfoPosted 29-Mar-2007 18:02Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Did you see the footage of the great white eating that poor sea-lion, that was unreal. I actually starting watching it with my kids, seemed like good family entertainment, but then when the animals got eaten, my little guy got pretty upset and went to bed really made at me for making him watch the show.


I hear ya tetra. I was watching it with my girlfriend and she was really enjoying the opening sequence of the first one with the polar bears. Then the next sequence featured an overhead shot of a pack of wolves hunting and killing the most adorable baby elk you could imagine... she wasn't so happy after that. The footage was so intense at times though that it really became an emotional experience.

And that shark shot was amazing, especially since they were able to slow it down to show the 1 second strike spread out over 45 seconds.

Still, the worst sequence I ever saw was a pack of killer whales killing a grey whale mother and its baby. They held the baby under water until it drowned Ugh It was too much.

Animal planet usually has some better family oriented shows I think, especially come out with that show starring Bindi Irwin, Steve Irwin's little girl.


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tetratech
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Updated pic, but not much new. I've been triple dosing micros in an attempt to jump start my aromatica. It might be working as I see some more fullness. I've also seem some growth that has enabled me to place seems on both sides of my valley. Downside to triple dosing seachem florurish was a clouding of the water, but this was gone by morning probably thanks to the UV.

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tetratech
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Finally tested my PH with a probe(milwaukee 600). For me I simply can't tell the color differences on the chart.

So after calibrating this is what I got on my 72G.

At lights out - 6.0
At lights on - 6.5
Tap water PH - 7.5

So that gives me a range of 20 to 60 ppm. This is pretty much what I thought was going on so I was glad the probe confirmed it. You know your pushing the co2 when you can't acclimate fish in the afternoon.

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tetratech,

Does that mean that you have a KH of 2dH?

I think that 60ppm is not considered pushing it anymore
Although I don't dare to mess with a CO2 this high, and I actually don't see a need for it either, I know people with around 100ppm, as can be seen when looking at their drop checker (another gadget I don't need).

But, I cannot believe that I didn't see your picture entry from almost a week ago. It looks very nice. Somehow it seems to me as if the sand gap towards the back has gotten narrower, can that be? I think it gives it more depth this way. The one minor fix that I see is that the left front of the sand/rock edge is too sharp, you know what I mean? Like compare it to the right front edge, that side is smoother.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2007 23:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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hey tetra,

that diffuser needs a bleach bath

other than that, lookin good as always


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Post InfoPosted 07-Apr-2007 23:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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LF,

Yes, you are right dkh of 2, I forgot to add that. Interesting thing about testing the co2 level is that I'm already seeing benefits of increasing both micro and macro ferts, assuming the high co2 demands it. Anything interesting thing is that I'm chaning half of my water sometimes in the evening with tap water that has a ph of 7.5 and the fish are swimming around in 6.0 without any problem. And this takes place over the course of 30 minutes or so with the python.

You are right about the left edge. Usually there is a
riccia covered stone separating the substrates in this case their isn't one so it really doesn't fit well.

BTW - I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the lotus leaf all the way up in the middle. The actual plant is right inside the those rocks (1st and 2nd ones) on the left side and get's almost no light.

Nowhere,
Yes you are right the diffusor, but if I clean it I'll probably drive the co2 to 100ppm and then I'll have to touch the Milkaukee regulator which I'd rather not do.




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I don't know what you're all talking about (lol) but beautiful is not a good enough word for that tank in my opinion!

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BTW - I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the lotus leaf all the way up in the middle. The actual plant is right inside the those rocks (1st and 2nd ones) on the left side and get's almost no light.
Thats why it is so dark in the middle of the tank! You should probably trim that thing!

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Post InfoPosted 08-Apr-2007 03:45Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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I'm surprised you didn't say anything about the lotus leaf all the way up in the middle

I thought it is a floater that you forgot to take out
Only now do I see that there is a thin line connecting it with the rock group.

Cleaning the diffuser - you know I am in the camp of never cleaning it with bleach. Instead I put Excel on top of it once it is exposed during a water change. Well, that's what I did for I don't know how many months in a row now, but last week I had to bleach it as the resistence on restart was so strong that it blew off the hose. So - my new rule is, maybe bleach once in about 3 months.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Apr-2007 11:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Fish patty, thanks for the nice comment and to all the regulars as well.

Here's an update full room shot of the tank lastnite. I did make some changes. The big rock on the right now is bare and doesn't have riccia covering it, although there are some patches (experiment). I also reduced more wisteria on the sides and you could see more rock work. I might actually decided to gradually ween the tank off the wisteria and use a smaller leafed plant, not sure yet. I Also cut the cord to the Lotus leaf that was at the surface, it was kinda annoying. You could also see more aromatica on both sides wrapping around the front of the rotala.

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Post InfoPosted 08-Apr-2007 16:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I like how the rotala was trimmed in this shot. More of a gradual slope up rather than WHAM here they are.

I also wanted to ask about what looks like a crypt poking out of the rock...does it grow? It always has 2 leaves.



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Post InfoPosted 08-Apr-2007 17:16Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I find it interesting that when you show us the tank without surroundings it looks much larger than when seeing the surroundings.

Or am I the only one who thinks so?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2007 00:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
I'm with fishpatty - it's very beautiful.
as can be seen when looking at their drop checker (another gadget I don't need).
So what is a drop checker anyway? I take it it's not the probe tetratch mentions?
For me I simply can't tell the color differences on the chart.
I agree it - it is total guess work for me using any of these colour charts.

Cheers
TW
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LITTLE_FISH
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Robyn,

A Drop Checker can be seen here. It works by adding a solution in the bubble and see its color change depending on the CO2 content of the water (it is submersed completely in the tank).

Look at the extended information tab in the screen to see the colors associated with CO2 levels.

From what I hear, "too much" really means very high values of CO2, but I am not certain how much that would be.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2007 13:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow, for $40 and shipping I'd rather put my money towards a digital readout. Probably cost 50 cents to make



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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2007 19:13Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for the comments everyone. Matty I know its hard to see but the crypt actually has about 5 leaves at the moment and I end up cutting off some that grow into the stems. I actually have a few baby crypts on the left that were spawned from the main one on the right.

Yeah, your right LF, the tank does look smaller in the room shots, but I would think that would be normal, no? You can tell how big it is by the fish.

I agree about the drop checker, I really don't want to spend $40 to put more equipment in the tank. I bought this ph meter and with the calibration fluid it was only $26.

http://www.aquariumplants.com/pH_METER_Hand_Held_Milwaukee_pH600_p/pr1408.htm

Seems to work fine, I initially measured my ph at lights out and it was 6.0, in the morning it was 6.5 and at about 1pm it was 6.5, makes sense.

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Post InfoPosted 09-Apr-2007 21:28Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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... in the morning it was 6.5 and at about 1pm it was 6.5, makes sense.

Not to me, somehow.

That would mean that your CO2 in the morning has no effect at all, or not?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2007 00:16Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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That would mean that your CO2 in the morning has no effect at all, or not


Well here's the logic:
My co2 is at it's highest by lights out, thus the 6.0 ph.
In the morning co2 diminishes of course and I awake to a ph of 6.5. Lights come on around 10:30 as does the co2, so by 1:00 the co2 hasn't built up enough to move the ph off the 6.5 but between 1pm and 7 there is enough of a buildup to move the ph. That or this probe sucks

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Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2007 00:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Did you get calibration solutions with the tester? It might need recalibration.

Also, make sure you don't do what I did & accidently stick the good end in the water. Mine never worked again after that.

I have a pH controller (I know, I know another unneeded toy - which I love BTW), so my pH is always constant at around 6.6. If my bottle runs out my pH will rise to 7.5 & above. If I reconnected a fresh bottle at 10.30am & looked at the pH reading at 1pm, I am positive there would be movement.

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2007 01:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Did you get calibration solutions with the tester? It might need recalibration.

Could be, Robyn how often do you recalibrate yours? Yes I did calibrate when I first got it with the solution.

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Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2007 01:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
Well, if you are talking about my little pen one like yours - it is kaput, due to me sticking wrong end in the water - but I think principle of regular recalibration would be the same.

With my fancy smanshy C02 pH controller/solenoid combined, I do it monthly. Being electronic, it's simple. I punch in approx room temp, put the probe in pH 4 solution & it buzzes when it's happy with that, then I put the probe in pH 7 solution & it buzzes again when it's happy - then I'm done. Easy-peezy.

I think with my little stick pen thing, it involved dipping it in the solutions & adjusting with a little tool until the readings agreed. Did you get instructions? I might still have mine & will check tonight, but think from memory you are to recalibrate if:-

- the unit was not used for an extended period of time
- otherwise monthly

My cleaning system is that the first water change to occur after the 1st day of the month is where the "extra" bits get done, eg

- clean the filter media, hoses, tubes
- recalibrate the pH controller & clean the C02 diffuser
- & now I'll have to add cleaning the pesky UV filter (which I'm a little nervous of how to do without water going everywhere).

Hope this helps. As I say, I am positive that between 10.30am to 1pm, my pH would have moved.

Cheers
TW
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tetratech
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Yep, sounds familiar that's pretty much what I did dipped it in the ph4 and ph7 solutions. After you use the solution to dip, do you discard the used solution or can you reuse. It did come with instructions, but didn't mention any of this.

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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
By now I will have Ingo gnashing his teeth & yawning in boredom with talk of these unnessary toys Just skip reading this post LF & also any post I make tonight correcting my info. Sorry Ingo

I will check tonight. Definitely for my fancy one, I discard used solution. I'll see what my original instructions for the pen one say (if anything). My guess would be to discard, unless you are really, really careful to make sure that no tap water, pH4 or pH7 cross transfer in your used solutions. Plus the solutions aren't expensive anyway. (Yay, at least something isn't - you don't want to know what the controller cost me, but the cost is one reason why I am very protective of it - but lucky, it's easy to care for)

So for my fancy smanshy one, I have a dipping container for pH 4, another for pH 7 & yet another container for a neutral solution (distilled water I think) that I dip the electrode in before I move between the 2 solutions. Film cannisers or old tubes from test kits work well here, as they are narrow enough that it means you only need a little solution each time you do this - so waste is minimal.

My C02 now runs 24/7, but it turns on & off according to target pH (6.5). I'm happy my tank has a more stable pH now, as my natural pH is really high & I have some aspistos & nigerian red in there that don't like high pH. Regularly each morning my pH was between 7.8 to even 8.0, before C02 brought it back down daily to 6.5pH. No one gasps at night & funnily, my C02 is lasting longer, as it no longer has to play daily catch up - but merely keeps things steady. I know I am told not to worry about this daily catch up - but I worry did anyway.

All my pH 4 & 7 solutions are from Sera (the brand of my fancy ph controller) and the distilled or neutral solution is from Dupla.

I'll double check all this tonight & give you the corrections.



Cheers
TW
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By now I will have Ingo gnashing his teeth & yawning in boredom with talk of these unnessary toys.


No you don't. Besides, this is not my log and tetratech did not grant me a monopoly on thread entries (with regards that they all should have to interest me) .

tetratech - if your observation would be true then this would be the first time that I hear something like this, meaning that the CO2 would have no influence on ph and only after a certain saturation point is reached it would change the ph. Somehow I would imagine that this is a rather linear event, meaning more CO2 = lower ph and visa versa. A tank with a certain KH and a certain ph has automatically a certain CO2 content - adding any more CO2 should therefore alter the ph.

Ingo


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Robyn thanks for all the info on the calibration, etc. I checked my ph this morning a little while ago and it was 6.8, so maybe the previous 6.5 wasn't first thing in the morning as I had thought. Then I put the probe in my 5g nano and it came out 7.5 (same as my tap). That tank doesn't have any co2 to speak of so it made sense.

Ingo yes that does make sense that it would be a linear event, but if co2 is consumed by the plants as they wake up wouldn't there be less of a jump in concentration until the tank is so filled with co2 that it pushes the number up making it a nonlinear event. I'm not a scientist just thinking out loud.

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I'm not a scientist just thinking out loud.


Hey, that could be my line as well

Anyway, I don't think that there is such a thing as "sucking up CO2" until a saturation point of it is reached. Main argument:

Any additional CO2 added after such a saturation point would have no effect on the plants (as they are saturated) and as such useless to the tank.

Furthermore, even if it would be true then you should actually see an increase of ph a little (like an hour or so) after the lights come on as not enough CO2 has yet been added to the tank to saturate and the plants use what is available so far (like the 20ppm at the time of lights on).

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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
The procedure for the fancy gadget is more or less as I said earlier.

But the instructions for the pen type one - very vague indeed. Just says to re-calibrate when:

* it has been used for a long time since the last calibration
* if it has been used in particularly taxing conditions * when the utmost accuracy is required.

Doesn't actually say to discard the calibration solution after single use, but I think it is implied between the lines, as it talks about being careful to minimize contamination.

When I water change, I will notice how quickly the C02 changes the pH by degrees.

Cheers
TW
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If you have a constant input of the same amount of CO2 throughout the day you will in fact see a decrease in pH at night and an increase in pH throughout the day as plants use CO2 during the day to photosynthesize and give it off at night to respire.

No real conclusion can be made by those of us without the means if you change the amount of CO2 input at any time of the day. It would be guesswork only to try to decide what observations in pH fluctuations are in the morning if you had just recently turned the CO2 on along with the lights. To classify a change decisively, everything else needs to be constant.



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Post InfoPosted 10-Apr-2007 16:21Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Robyn, thanks for the additional info. Matty that makes alot of sense. You mean if running co2 24/7.

Anyway I confirmed (I think) that my co2 is pushing 60 ppm at it's peak I've been increasing ferts all the way around and I believe I'm seeing improvement in my aromatica. They are now playing a more prominent role in the main areas of the tank.



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Yeah, sorry, instead of saying "all day" I should have said 24/7.

I definitely notice a positive change there for them. I'm thinking I need to get a digital pH jobby and I've been thinking that for quite a long time. It just feels useless to test with the color test kit. Even the salifert kits are hard to read, though better than the others.



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Yeah, hopefully the aromatica is for real this time. I can't remember the last time it looked good. These guys don't seem to mind the high co2. Well you could see why these guys are on the glass. How embrassing

Attached Image:


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FRANK
 
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Don't worry...
Non of us noticed the algae on the glass

Nice, Healthy, Ottos!

Frank

-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2007 01:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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We can all see why the Otos are so fat!

Add more Phosphates!

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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2007 01:54Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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"Everybody Sing - La La La La La"

In reference to the Wiggles song that each parent of younger children probably knows all too well.

Nice shot of tank and Otos, tetratech,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 11-Apr-2007 14:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Everybody Sing - La La La La La

Right you have very young kids. Have you checked out Ditty Doodle Works on PBS? A close friend of mine created the show it's for youngsters between 1 and 6.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Apr-2007 00:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Man, the Wiggles. Here I am working a desk job, while they sing goofy songs and dance around - which i do in my free time anyway! - and make megabucks. Makes me think I'm in the wrong business...

Anyway, I think Bensaf would have a thing or two to say about that GS algae tetra - more phosphates!


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Post InfoPosted 12-Apr-2007 16:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Anyway, I think Bensaf would have a thing or two to say about that GS algae tetra - more phosphates!

Yeah, I think I've been underdosing everything especially with the co2 so high. Is that pretty solid that GS is caused by low phosphate or is it similiar to saying BGA is caused by low nitrate?

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Post InfoPosted 12-Apr-2007 19:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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IMO low phosphates is one possible cause of green spot. I get some green spot and I know my PO4 levels are good. I'm not sure it's worth messing with things too much, just from where I'm sittin' and lookin'.



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Post InfoPosted 12-Apr-2007 20:54Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don't know this for sure, and I have not been in a serious discussion about it either, but I doubt that low P causes GS.

I always had some GS developing on the glass, and if you don't clean your glass frequently it will multiply (not as in making more out of one, just simply more). And as you all know (or not) my tab P is already 2ppm and I add some to it during the week (2 to 3 times) as well.

I made an overservation in my 125 over the last few weeks. As lazy as I am, I did not clean the back glass of my tank for quite a while. Over time, I saw a buildup of GS in the open glass area behind the Blyxa on the left of the tank (here is another side observation - I usually don't see GS behind plants, just in open areas). The interesting part is that there was a clear horizontal line about half way down on the glass with GS below but barely any above. And guess what? This is how low the water level falls during water change. Makes me think that exposire to air is not so good for GS.

What do you think?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 13-Apr-2007 13:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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What do you think?
I think that you might not get as much light in those areas. I have been doing some pretty large water changes the past few weeks and I still have some GS abover where my water line goes down to.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2007 19:41Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Oh Oh tetratech,

Did you run out of your Premium Membership again?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2007 19:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Looks like he did, LF.

Time to pass the collection plate for tetra!


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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2007 20:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yeah I got a couple of reminders and didn't do anything. I'll have to decide if I'm going to renew the premo. There's really only a few dedicated planted enthusiasts here. Let's see Skywalker(nowher), Solo(LF), Darth Vader (Matty-darkside), Wings(C3PO)and Princess leia(tankwatcher). Of course the great Obi-Wan (Bensaf) is somewhere out there, probably in a galaxy far far away............

O.K. Frank you could be Yoda


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Post InfoPosted 14-May-2007 23:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Nah, I think Frank is the Emperor!


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Post InfoPosted 15-May-2007 02:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Princess leia(tankwatcher)
Glad I didn't end up being a female version of Chewy. Must tell the family they have to treat me more as a princess now and less as their personal slave ?

What happens if you re-new now ... will all your older pics come back too? I hate to think we won't get to see your beautiful tanks again. However, it is good to learn that once you cease membership your older pics disappear. I never considered that before - just thought you wouldn't be able to post new ones. Thinking about it, I can understand it's fair enough for FP to do this - I just hadn't thought about it. Thought my log pics would always be there, as my textural & pictorial record of tank's life. Makes me think I should also keep this in a home document as well, as you never know what might happen in the future.

BTW, I've read here and there of your previous brewery incident & know it had something to do with your C02 system - but can't imagine how this happens with a pressurised system. What happened & did you have DIY at the time? Just curious. Is there a thread here you could point me towards, if that's easier than rehashing it here

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 15-May-2007 02:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Must tell the family they have to treat me more as a princess now and less as their personal slave


Now you sound like my wife.

The brewery incident was when I had DIY Co2. In fact it prompted my conversion to pressurized. I'm still not sure exactly how it happened, but somehow enough of the mix got into the tank to start reacting and it really smelled like a brewery. There was a big billowy cloudy that was moving about the tank it was pretty freaky. It happened in my old 46g before I started the 72g. If I find any pics I'll post them or should I say link them.

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Post InfoPosted 15-May-2007 02:45Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Well,

I guess that would leave Chewbacca and R2D2 for tetratech, make you pick young man

BTW, isn't your birthday sometime in May?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 15-May-2007 13:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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BTW, isn't your birthday sometime in May?

Actually it was May 3rd. 44

I guess that would leave Chewbacca and R2D2 for tetratech

Yeah, I let you guys have all the cool characters. I guess I'll be Chewbacca since he most resembles what I look like anyway. My days of being incognito will soon be coming to an end as I will probably reveal myself sometime in the near future. Please make sure the kids are not near your computer as you gaze upon my most heidous form.

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Post InfoPosted 15-May-2007 16:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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So tetra,

You are setting up your old 46G bow? What are you plans?

Did you ever get that salt set up running?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 15-May-2007 17:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Well the salt setup never happened because I simply didn't have a place to put the setup. All the equipment (sump, substrate, sock, etc are setting in my garage)

You are setting up your old 46G bow? What are you plans?
Yep this one is underway. I'm deciding on what kind of layout I want to do. I already have all my equipment and the tank will be in my bedroom. I couldn't have put the salt setuip in the bedroom because the sump and setup would have been too noisy.




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Post InfoPosted 16-May-2007 22:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Very good to hear you're setting up a new one, looking forward to seeing it come together.

Guess we wont have our competing tanks afterall, mine isnt close to being ready


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Post InfoPosted 17-May-2007 01:03Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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I'm too young to be a father.....but I still like being vader.

Can't wait to see the new setup.....too bad about the SW.

You should def get your premie renewed...it's only a few bucks, and it's a different atmosphere here than on a larger site.



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Post InfoPosted 18-May-2007 16:57Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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it's a different atmosphere here than on a larger site.
Very true. Thats why I keep coming back here. Plus we all have a history together!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 18-May-2007 17:24Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
FRANK
 
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Me? The Emperor? Isn't he the "Old Dude" in the black
cape/hoodie with all the wrinkles and bad speech, one
of the "Bad Guys?"

Actually, I would think that keeping the
Premium Membership would be an ideal thing unless you
were only casually visiting FP only once in a while.
The site, its software, and staff, have provided a first
rate place for you to exchange ideas, theories, and facts
about a wide range of subjects. In this one forum alone
"We" have covered various fish species, snails, shrimp,
and even frogs. And thats not counting the various
substrates, lights and lighting, filtration and filters
and hundreds of plants.

If one takes the time to actually read all of these
posts (and I have not just because I'm one of
the moderators, but because the topics interest me)
there is an amazing amount of knowledge here and
it continues to grow.

We now have new members with new tanks, that are interested
in plants, lighting, and substrates. I expect we will see
many of them posting questions and logs here.

There are other sites, many for plants, but they seem
"Stuffy" and not as "open" or friendly as FP is.
I would hope that you do renew, and continue to support
the site that has given you so much.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 19-May-2007 01:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
My days of being incognito will soon be coming to an end as I will probably reveal myself sometime in the near future. Please make sure the kids are not near your computer as you gaze upon my most heidous form.


Oh Oh,

I guess that means that you are into something big. Why else would you all of a sudden after many years decide to show yourself? I am looking forward to it.

And now go and renew your subscription before they see your image and ban you from the site (as in: too hairy, Chewbacca)

Ingo

EDIT: I assume you have seen my mug-shot at the latest event published on NJAGC, right?

EDIT EDIT: And belated "Happy Birthday" to you, welcome to my age (and Bensaf's )


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Post InfoPosted 20-May-2007 13:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
LF,
Thanks for the belated BDay Wish

Oh Oh,

I guess that means that you are into something big. Why else would you all of a sudden after many years decide to show yourself? I am looking forward to it.

Oh, it won't be something that big. You know me, I'm such a drama queen.

Now that a darkside presence has been discovered here within the moderator group, I might have to go into hiding and seek out (Obi-Wan/aka Bensaf) and return to fight the Protists and the Tdapbaraf (Threads disquised as planted but are really about fish).



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Post InfoPosted 21-May-2007 15:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Of course the great Obi-Wan (Bensaf) is somewhere out there, probably in a galaxy far far away............


Try an airport far far away.......

Don't have a life anymore, at least not one that doesn't involve work

Logged on to look at the pics and see how the tanks were coming a long, but yours are all gone

I'm sure it looks way better then my neglected overgrown moss infested ones anyway


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 27-May-2007 05:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Try an airport far far away

It's alive!!!

Now I have to just talk you into showing us your moss-dominated tanks, maybe next airport layover. Glad all is well with you. If you check back in go here for the most recent published pick of my tank.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/files/1/8/9/5/IMG_7967crop_original.jpg

Best regards,
Jeff




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Post InfoPosted 28-May-2007 04:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Great to see a pic of your tank again tetratech.

Those are great rocks you have there. I can never really find any that I think look natural, no matter where I look. Did you buy them, or did you collect them bushwalking?

Cheers
TW
Post InfoPosted 28-May-2007 04:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Tetra , Love the design of this tank . Want to see more of your work . Look forward to it
Garry
Post InfoPosted 28-May-2007 11:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It's alive!!!


And so are you tetratech,

And I am with Robyn, nice to see your tank again. Doesn't seem like much, if anything at all except trimming, has changed in your tank. All looks healthy and clean

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 28-May-2007 11:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Robyn,

The rocks are all Petrified wood purchased at LFS in my area. My twigs are from Pier One Imports (a very exotic store)

LF,

Actually that pic of my tank is from April, I was just directing Uncle Ben to a recent pic, since he hasn't been around. I have added a species or two of plants and fine-tuned things a bit. I'll try to post a pic soon.

Garry,

Thanks for those comments!

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Post InfoPosted 28-May-2007 13:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well here I am back in Dubai again, on the way home this time.

Tank looks great, being a lot of changes. Plants look incredibly healthy and vibrant, not a lick of algae

Just as impressive is the photo itself. Finally a shot with some light and you can see everything. Crisp and crystal clear, just the right amount of light. Has somebody been taking photography lessons?

I don't even have a photo of mine since I moved house. There's pretty much no stem plants in it as I don't have time to trim and the crypts and moss have spread and taken over everywhere. Whole thing needs to be tore down and re-arranged. Someday.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 30-May-2007 23:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yes My Master, I've served you well!

Well here I am back in Dubai again, on the way home this time.

Bensaf, nice to catch you here. Thanks for those very nice comments. Yep the tank is incredibly stable, regardless of what I do with ferts, etc. I have to preach organic and light control as the biggest factors.

Dubai seems like a surreal place with their progressive architecture, etc. If you play tennis, don't forget your parachute. Glad all is well with you and I hope you settle enough to put another beautiful scape together.



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Post InfoPosted 30-May-2007 23:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Wow,

two Bensaf entries in 4 days, I can only hope that he has a layover at that airport at least once a week .

So tetratech, tell me more about your preachings with regards to light control, please.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 31-May-2007 13:15Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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So tetratech, tell me more about your preachings with regards to light control, please.
or call me Jeff, please

Anyway, I'm convinced that by reducing the length of the photo period, not the intensity you will control more algae situations, That in combination with good solid co2.
This is nothing new, but I do feel the plants only use what eight hours or so and then it's feast time for algae.

This has worked in my tanks on several occasions when I noticed BBA starting to grow. I've reduced lighting duration and bumped up co2 slightly and the BBA was controlled and didn't come back. I notice my rocks are staying cleaner. I'm about to setup my new 46g. I'm pretty sure I'm going to try my hand at an Iwagumi and I will be only running lights at about 7 hours initially and moving up to 8/9 max.

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Post InfoPosted 31-May-2007 14:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Good to see the old man is still around and well (at least health wise)

I wish I knew how to be active in more than one forum at once, then I could stay on top of these things.

Tetra, nice to hear about the 46. In the amano-related set-up manuals I've seen he suggests the same. Start off with a short photo period and little to no ferts and gradually build them up. This will be especially tricky with the Iwagumi style, since the first thing we think of when starting a new tank is to stuff it with plants right away. Nutrient control will be more important than ever with this style, sounds like a fun challenge


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 31-May-2007 16:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Good to see the old man is still around and well (at least health wise)


Yeah that is good news. Speaking of old men, I was sorry to hear you mention your tank is delayed. Maybe your a little of this old man from Lawn Guy-land

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Post InfoPosted 31-May-2007 17:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Speaking of old men, I was sorry to hear you mention your tank is delayed. Maybe your a little of this old man from Lawn Guy-land


Who, me?

I still haven't redone the 4G which needs it the most. My target for that is next week. I've just been putting money into non-aquatic plants and haven't budgeted for the new ones to go in the 4G. Just got a few nice small begonia species the other day, and I've been setting up the outside plants now that the weather has turned warm.

Funny thing is, the 65 and all accessories are set up in my room already - stand, tank, filter stuff, driftwood, lights etc. All I need now is AS, plants... and a kick in the behind to get going on it

But I am looking forward to your Iwagumi. Thus far I don't think any one we know from FP has pulled one off yet (haven't seen one from Bensaf if he has). ChaosMaximus tried one a year or so ago but that went down the tubes rather quickly I remember. So should be interesting.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 31-May-2007 19:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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But I am looking forward to your Iwagumi. Thus far I don't think any one we know from FP has pulled one off yet (haven't seen one from Bensaf if he has). ChaosMaximus tried one a year or so ago but that went down the tubes rather quickly I remember. So should be interesting.


Yes, how can we forget ChaosMaximus. Poor guy, never knew what hit him.

Anyway, how can I fail, I'm in a Zen-like state of mind

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Anyway, I'm convinced that by reducing the length of the photo period, not the intensity you will control more algae situations, That in combination with good solid co2.
This is nothing new, but I do feel the plants only use what eight hours or so and then it's feast time for algae.


I am with you on this one. I am running about 9 hours max for my photo period with the intensity up to 5.25WPG. I keep my CO2 up around 70 some ppm and I have a light fish load and keep my feedings light. Hardly any algae to speak of in the tank.

Just remember that algae needs long photo periods to prosper while plants can turn it on and off to get by.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 31-May-2007 21:32Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Yes, how can we forget ChaosMaximus. Poor guy, never knew what hit him.


I know. Started right off the bat with a few clumps of HC, a few petite nanas, and lemon tetras. Algae city within a week. I guess he never stuck with it. Well, live and learn.


Back in the saddle!
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Start off with a short photo period and little to no ferts and gradually build them up.

Well, of course I have to disagree

True, Amano says that, but in what context? Answer: in the context of using his substrate and bacter. This stuff leaches ferts like mad in the beginning, that is why one should not add more ferts.

At least that is my opinion,

Ingo


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TW
 
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ummm what is Iwagumi style

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Robyn,

Just type Iwagumi into google and you will see. basically, it is a low planted tank (as in mainly low plants like HC and such) with rocks sticking out, similar to my 20G QT currently (although I would get spanked by Amano for remotely linking my tank and Iwagumi, ).

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True, Amano says that, but in what context? Answer: in the context of using his substrate and bacter. This stuff leaches ferts like mad in the beginning, that is why one should not add more ferts.


I didn't think AS leached ferts into the WC. It shouldn't anyway, unless you're dumping water directly onto it and making it leach everything.

And tetra, I believe your mailbox is full.


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And tetra, I believe your mailbox is full.

Thanks, I just cleared it.



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
AAAAHHHHHHH



Now that is an accomplishment, Jeff.
'Petrified Valley' - interesting name choice, I sure was not petrified when I saw the honors, I was delighted.

And this is not at all how I pictured you would look like, .

Ingo


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Well done, Jeff!

Congrats as well! That's no small accomplishment.

I agree with Ingo. With all the "old man" talk I expected to see an old guy sitting there with his tank. Though I guess the Chewbacca comparison holds up...


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks both of you!

Believe me, I'm old. with a Son almost as big as I am, I'm feeling pretty old. I have good hair genes, but that's about it. I actually don't usually look like Chewy, but I get lazy when I work from home. I was tempted to take the pic in my pjs, but I opted for the ripped jeans.

Ingo thanks for those nice words in the thread, that is oh so true, but I think your editorial piece in TFH next to Amano beats it.

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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
Actually, now that I think about it, you look exactly like the guy who played Harry Ellis in the original "Die Hard". I mean, you're a dead ringer for that guy! Know who I'm talking about?


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Actually, now that I think about it, you look exactly like the guy who played Harry Ellis in the original "Die Hard". I mean, you're a dead ringer for that guy! Know who I'm talking about?

You mean that really obnxious coked out guy that they couldn't stand listening to anymore and shot in the head. Great thanks "Checky young pup - Bensaf"

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Yeah, that's the guy! Just like him, only that instead of being coked up and obnoxious, if he entered a Zen-like state of mind after discovering the ability to bring the beauty of nature into his home through the art of the aquascape.


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That's a really descriptive set of shots of the maturation of your tank tetratech....ermmm Jeff. As I've said before, your tank is very nice and well deserved of the honor. Congrats.



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Jeff , the beautifull simplicity of the scape of this tank is breathtaking . I can't wait to see the new setup . Congrats
Garry
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Editorial piece in TFH beating the "Tank of the Month" ???

Not when it comes to what we (the plant nerds) value most, a planted tank, not by a long shot .

Granted, the TFH thing was a nice accomplishment as well, but it was all about breeding Espei, and for that your tank can (theoretically) look like a bomb exploded in it.

There is no taking away from the work, thought, and even restrain that you have displayed to make your tank what it is today, and that's why you really earned this reward.

And yeah, I had to request my password to log into the site as I haven't been logged in in ages. My postcount there is the opposite from here

Ingo


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Tetra,

Any plans to enter this tank into the AGA contest? If you haven't already I think you should.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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well done houseofcards, aka tetratech, aka Jeff.

If I wasn't so scared of the mess I'd make, I'm almost tempted to try the two substrate idea (eco & sand) in my new tank. I still just don't get it. How do you keep it separate. I have no digging fish - so no problem there.

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If I wasn't so scared of the mess I'd make, I'm almost tempted to try the two substrate idea (eco & sand) in my new tank. I still just don't get it. How do you keep it separate. I have no digging fish - so no problem there.


There's always going to be some mixing issue, but if the substrates are separately somewhat by a rock border it will be minimal.

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I've been searching for petrified wood, since you told me that's what your rocks are. Couldn't find any here & I am bidding on a couple lots on ebay in USA. Hope they look okay in real life, when I get them.

None of the rocks I find in LFS ever look natural.

I will think about this twin substrate idea. If it doesn't work for me & everything gets messy, I assume it be a real hassle to remove the sand from the tank.
but if the substrates are separately somewhat by a rock border it will be minimal
Should I place the rock border, which divides the 2 substrates, directly on the glass bottom of the tank?

Cheers
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I've been searching for petrified wood, since you told me that's what your rocks are. Couldn't find any here & I am bidding on a couple lots on ebay in USA. Hope they look okay in real life, when I get them.


Be careful what you are getting. some petrified wood isn't very attractive in both structure and color. Some look very light and orange and other's might be very straight and flat. So make sure it's WYSIWYG.

I don't think it's critical that the rocks are on a clean glass bottom. I mean some substrate underneath the rock is fine. Just make sure the darker substrate is held back by the rocks. You can pour some more substrate in the area and see how much leaks through than adjust your rocks.

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So make sure it's WYSIWYG
That's what I'm scared of. I've been outbid on this one already, & I don't know if I'll up my bid or not. What do you think of this one?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110132809194&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com.au%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dm37%26satitle%3D110132809194%2B%2B%26category0%3D%26fvi%3D1

I already one a batch of this stuff http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Petrified-wood-All-natural-Arizona-petrified-wood-1-2_W0QQitemZ140123651975QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3219QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem I'll ask if the seller can pick out the red / brown ones for me. What do you think of these. They were fairly cheap, so I won't be too heartbroken if they are no good & I can't use them. Also, the guy seems to have heaps of them. If I like them & want more of the same, shouldn't be a problem.

Comments invited.

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Robyn,

The first piece you were out bid on, looks kinda light and it will look almost white when placed in the tank under the lights. I haven't found those that attractive, but again that's my opinion. The ones that are more brown and less orange or off white like the one in the pic usually look better and more natural. Also stay away from pieces that look like they have broad striping from brown to white, again they don't look natural in the tank. You want to try and find pieces that look like little boulders and not flat rectangles, if that makes sense. Happy rock hunting.

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Robyn,

The first piece you were out bid on, looks kinda light and it will look almost white when placed in the tank under the lights. I haven't found those that attractive, but again that's my opinion. The ones that are more brown and less orange or off white like the one in the pic usually look better and more natural. Also stay away from pieces that look like they have broad striping from brown to white, again they don't look natural in the tank. You want to try and find pieces that look like little boulders and not flat rectangles, if that makes sense. Happy rock hunting.

My Scapes
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Hey,

I don't know much about this type of wood/rock, so I let you two figure out the right color and such.

But I want to comment on the last link from Robyn:

that chunk of rock is 8 ounces - meaning half a pound, right? I recently saw a rock of the kind that I have in my 20G at the LFS, about the same size as the larger ones in there (as such, not really big). Asking what it would cost, and learning that price is by weight, we checked the latter. 3 Pounds ++ !!!

Petrified Wood is just as heavy, I take it, so this 8 oz. one must be tiny, I doubt the measurements.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Robyn sorry to be critical but that last link is very glassy looking and I don't think you will like it in your tank. I have a few pieces like that and I don't really use them or I use them in the back somewhere.

Do you definitely want petrified wood. Aren't there any landscaping supply type stores that you could look over their rocks. Around me I recently went to a landscape supply store and they let me pick through a pile of Moss Rock and take anything I wanted for $10. I might be using these in my new 46g.

My Scapes
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ha,

funny thing:

and they let me pick through a pile of Moss Rock

Just last night I heard the name Moss Rock for the first time, from a NJAGC buddy. He likes them very much but couldn't show me an example as we were at AF and they had none.

Can you get a picture of one up here, tetratech?

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tankwatcher
the criticism for the rocks is just what I want

I don't think you've commented on these ones yet. Seller said he can pick out the darker & browner ones for me. I'll also ask if he can pick out the rounder ones, instead of the flat ones - but I may not have a lot of control over what he sends me. At worst, I can always the tops completely with riccia and use them as little borders.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Petrified-wood-All-natural-Arizona-petrified-wood-1-2_W0QQitemZ140123651975QQihZ004QQcategoryZ3219QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem
.
This is what I have now. I sort of like the rock itself, but doesn't look natural. It's typical of the sort of rocks I find in LFS - more pretty patterns than natural. I will wander around some gardening type places & see what they have as well.

BTW, I'm posting my pics these days via photobucket - so they will never disappear, unless I remove them from the photobucket album - even if I'm no longer a premie, I think they'll remain. Is that right Matty - or will they still disappear?

Cheers
TW
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Well here's one in the backyard. You can get an idea of the color. It has a flat sandy texture.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/files/1/8/9/5/IMG_7987_original.jpg

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Well here's one in the backyard.


So, every time you want to add a piece to your tank, all you have to do is go outside with a sledge hammer and bang away

I like that type of rock, I for sure would not have assumed that it would be called Moss Rock, I thought such a stone should be greenish.

Once in a tank for a while, even the clearest sections of it should be somewhat "normalized" anyway.

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So, every time you want to add a piece to your tank, all you have to do is go outside with a sledge hammer and bang away

I did attempt that to supply my new tank with rock (hint, hint) but I wasn't happy with the results so I ended up going to a landscape suppy and as mentioned picking throught a mountain of moss rock for the little pieces.

This is a a skid of moss rock you could buy for $250.
(not what I picked from). Many of the darker areas around the crevices, etc is actually dried moss, thus the name.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/files/1/8/9/5/IMAGE_001_original.jpg

Sorry for the bad quality. It was taken with my cellphone.

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The best landscape place in my area, at least with concerns to rocks, is only open during the week, so usually not at the time when I can go there. I am off today, so maybe I have a chance go there.

Do you know of any other name by which this type of rock is known as? For example, the rock in my 20G and 40G and now also in the 125G (seems like I need more variety) is known in your fish store in LI (the big store, forgot the name yet again) as Picture Rock, but at my LFS as Zebra Rock.

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All the landscape suppliers out here call it moss rock, but your right, I'm sure there are several names.

the rock in my 20G and 40G and now also in the 125G (seems like I need more variety) is known in your fish store in LI (the big store, forgot the name yet again) as Picture Rock, but at my LFS as Zebra Rock.

That big store knows very little about the fish, plants let alone the sticks and stones they carry. I believe Zebra rock is the term most use.



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Update..

I promise fresh pics of this tank once my TOTM run has concluded. I've refreshed it a bit and added some new plants including HC Cuba and Ludwigia repens. I've also added in some additional hardscape which includes some locally found driftwood.

Stay tuned...........

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Can't wait

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TOTM
Dose this mean what I think it means?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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Jeff ,Looking forward to the update .
Garry
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Here's a current pic of the 72G. I've added some driftwood to the valley that I personally found in the bluffs overlooking the Nissequogue River on the north shore of Long Island. They are beautiful pieces that I've tried to incorporating into the curve of the valley in a sort of dramatic way. You can also see the HC growing in the foreground as well as a thicket of Ludwigia repens growing in the midground on the left side.

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/aquarium-pictures/files/1/8/9/5/IMG_0681apc_original.jpg



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Tetra , Thats a very different look now in the central part of the scape .
It looks like you have moved some rocks out of the scape to accommodate the driftwood ?
You've also got some plants blocking the view up the river .
Much as it daunts me to say this ( of one of the "Masters" scapes ), isn't that a little distracting.
Oh well it is hard to improve of perfection ( geez I'm a suck up )
Love the driftwood BTW.

Garry
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Hm ,

Not my favorite either, sorry to say that. Here is why:

- the driftwood, as nice as it is, seems artificial in these positions. I can imagine though that it will look better once it "ages" and doesn't look that polished anymore.
- the divider line created with the very bright green Wisteria is somewhat out of place. Why split the valley?

All other parts look nice and I am truly looking forward to the HC growth, in particular if you should go with the ADA substrate test. Once the HC covers the foreground the whole tank will look very different as any darkness from the ground will be gone. Hard to imagine now for me though.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2007 14:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah, before I even posted the pic, I knew I would get comments similiar to LF and Country. The wisteria should have been cut so it doesnt completely cut off the valley and the pic is alittle dark to see the flow through it.

At this point it's experimentation with this tank. It's kinda done, but I'm looking for something maybe alittle different.

I just trimmed so I'll probably post a different pic possibily from a different prospective.

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Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2007 14:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I knew I would get comments similiar to LF and Country.


Aren't you glad that you have such careful observers in your audience ?

As is often the case, a picture rarely represents the "real" tank, for better and worse. More shots from different angles for sure help in understanding the 3 dimensionality of a tank.

Ingo


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Tetra,

Do you have any close ups of your riccia? Mine had been a little weird lately. Some parts are dark green, some are bright green. It looks like yours is the same.



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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 17-Jul-2007 19:10Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hey tetra, what're the plants growing in the valley itself, in the sand part on the right side? Looks like e. parvi., but fluffier, like hygro poly.?


Back in the saddle!
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Hey tetra, what're the plants growing in the valley itself, in the sand part on the right side? Looks like e. parvi., but fluffier, like hygro poly.?
Nope that's just Difformis living up to its name. I must have 10 differnt leaf shapes depending on trim,light,location, etc.

I'm surprised no one picked up on the L.Repens as it slants in the same shape as the valley. That was the idea behind the wood on the left as well. It's sort of bending into the curve of the valley.

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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2007 00:11Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I'm surprised no one picked up on the L.Repens as it slants in the same shape as the valley.

I sure didn't see that

I didn't even notice the repens (which, btw, looks rather pale in the picture) as I focussed in on the wood and valley.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2007 17:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Current shot about 4 days post trim. Really nice color here, yeah the repens were recently hacked as well. I trimmed the wisteria on the sand so you could see through the valley again.

http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2460889960048205226BYLOVY?vhost=outdoors

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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2007 19:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I think that little change made all the difference. The wood somehow,oddly maybe, seems to fit much better than before.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Jul-2007 00:19Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Countryfish
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EditedEdited by countryfish
Tetra , I agree with Matty , that makes a big difference .
Looks like you've done a big trim and added some Ricca ????? to one of the rocks on the left side of the river .
Looks like the HC has spread quite a lot in 4 days.

Great shot as always , and I agree with Ingo more shots from different angles would be a treat to see.

Garry
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Current tank shot:

Current Pic

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fishmonster
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Tetratech

How have you been able to compensate for the PH raise the petrified wood has put on the tank? If now how did you know that it wouldnt raise it? If it did how if at all are you keeping it down?

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Shane

Thanks for your input as always, Shane
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Very nice tetratech,

but I wouldn't be me (or you wouldn't be yourself either, in that situation) if I couldn't find something to bicker about :

I think the rocks are now a little too bare. I would rather like to see some plants overhanging the outer sides of the rocks (sides away from the valley) or even some small plants growing on the rocks, for example (albeit not a good one) having Nana petites growing out of the gaps between the rocks and such.

But maybe you just did a trim job and that is why the center is rather bare.

Otherwise, just as gorgeous then the day you won TOTM,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2007 14:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Beautifully sculptured tank no matter what you keep doing to it
Post InfoPosted 09-Oct-2007 16:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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fishmonster
The petrified wood should not affect the PH / Hardness of the tank

LF
Thanks for your comment. Your right, there's always some tweaking to do here and there. Maybe if I could get my tank in TFH like someone else I know I'll go all out.

fishpatty
Thanks for the nice comment.


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NowherMan6
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What happened to all your cardinals? Didn't you have something like 30 in there?


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Countryfish
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Jeff as always , your scape is nearly perfect . They are never quite perfect are they
always someting to do , that's what keeps us interested .

Not sure I'm as game as LF to make suggestions , but it does appear to be a little bare
in the area LF pointed out . Are you in the process of changing things ?

Garry
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nowher,

You mean I'm suppose to have fish in my planted tanks, oops I forgot hehe. Actually there's about a dozen or so in there. I think I had 25 or so at it's peak. I'm coming up on two years for these cardinals so I'm sure some died off from age. Since they are wild caught, one never knows how old they are when acquired. Interesting though I still have an amazing 6 otos from my original 9 or so. And some of my Amano shrimps are pushing two years as well.

Garry,

I'm really debating a complete redo of the tank, but to echo Ingo, do I have the time to do it.

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tetratech,

About the fishies: first off, I hear you on the ever decreasing "interest" in fish as they serve more of a decoration role for the tank (except worker bees).

I can see the cardinals having reached their age limit, and maybe the Amanos as well, althogh I am reading some reports of a life span of over 4 years.

Otos,on the other hand, will easily exceed 5 years, just ask Cali on this site.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Oct-2007 17:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well that's interesting about the shrimp. I didn't realize they can live that long. Anyway I haven't purchased a fish in I don't know how long. I'll probably let these fish run their course and then decide on one big school. It definitey won't be cardinals. I think the whole idea of a large tight school all the time is a myth to a certain degree. You can't go by those shots of Amanos tanks since he throws them in and takes pictures. They always school at the point. One of the artistic APCers referred to fish in his tanks as "Paint Strokes"

At current between my three tanks I probably have about 100 cherry shrimps

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At current between my three tanks I probably have about 100 cherry shrimps
It doesn't take long. I still have 99% of mine in the little 1.5 gallon. I am guessing there are over 50 of them in there. Maybe it's time to sell some as I don't think I can set up the 20G long right now.

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Post InfoPosted 10-Oct-2007 23:05Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's a current pic about a week post trim. I'm pretty much moving things around here and there on a somewhat monthly basis. In this shot I added more riccia to the rocks in the valley. After moving the riccia away from some foreground areas I also added a new plant (Echinodorus tenellus 'micro')to both the foreground and valley area.

Current Pic

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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2007 00:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Countryfish
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Tetra , The Ricca on the rocks is a great touch . So a new plant , how about a close up ?

I agree about your fish selection Btw , I'm so over Card's mine hide all the time ,
Rummys are a hoot to watch in a bigish school ( I have 17 ) they play follow the leader
at speed all the time . Occasionally this cause's a pile up .
I think you would love them .

Garry
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tetratech,

Looking very nice and way more natural now that the center area had time (and your help) to incorporate the rock valley some more

Tenellus Micro, yes? It should grow rather similar to normal tenellus then, right (albeit smaller, and isn't it reddish as well? ) ? While individual plantlets look very nice right now, wouldn't you have to take care of runners all the time?

The darker green areas on the right hand rocks of the valley, is that Riccia as well somehow shaded or some form of moss?

The only slight criticism I can make is that it seems like the way left group is not attached cohesively to the closer groups at the left rock area. The way right side seems to create more flow, but the left has even a hole.

Otherwise, better than mine anyway

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2007 14:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the comments guys.

Garry,
Rummys are very nice fish and definitely much better schoolers than cards. I might in fact go with those in this tank since they are fairly easy to acquire around here. I'll try to get a pick up of the new plant soon.

Ingo,
As usual very perceptive. Yes the far left is slightly detached since there's a space where there isn't anything in the substrate and the wisteria is sort of hovering over that area. I was just to lazy to plant more wisteria there about a week ago.

Yeah I expect the runners from the ETM will go around things but I'm not to worried. I think they'll be easy to remove. Yes the plant does have sme nice reddish hues to it, one reason I wanted it. The guy I bought them from said the plant is a really slow grower, but it doesn't look like that's going to be the case.

Very interesting comment about the Riccia and yes it's all Riccia. The darker Riccia on the right was taken out of my Aquasoil-based tank and was growing very dark in there compared to this tank. After having it in this tank for about a month it continues to grow this way. Also the left shape is smaller and tighter. Here's a pic from a few weeks ago when they were both side by side in the tank. The AS-based Riccia is on the right.

Riccia


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Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2007 15:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Back in the day (a couple of months ago) when I had my 40G set up, my riccia would grow dark sometimes too. I never really did figure out why...

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 23-Oct-2007 23:22Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bratyboy2
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so what ever happened to the posting on this one i loved this tank
Post InfoPosted 04-Feb-2008 05:52Profile AIM Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
Countryfish
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Yes Tetra ...long time ..how about an update ?


Garry
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He does still stop in!

Last Visit: 04-Feb-2008 07:58

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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