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(Bensaf chime in any time)

Could be light. It also looks quite thin, you've never mentioned trimming it and looking by the pics it also seems to grow quite slow for you. Should be a real quick grower.

On the other hand your Aromatica is growing way better then mine Your's is much fuller and redder, mine is very wimpy compared to yours. Actually my new growth is coming out very bright green and almost white, may need a bit more calcium. Even right at the surface it's still green not so much as a hint of red.

I'd rather have the healthy lush Aromatica then the Wallichii, so I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Tetra,
The big piece of DW on the mid-right. Did you make it more vertical?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Could be light. It also looks quite thin, you've never mentioned trimming it and looking by the pics it also seems to grow quite slow for you. Should be a real quick grower.

Actually I've replanted the tops at least 3 times. Does look alittle better each time. Light probably major factor, but plants do adjust within a certain range to conditions, don't they?

On the other hand your Aromatica is growing way better then mine Your's is much fuller and redder, mine is very wimpy compared to yours. Actually my new growth is coming out very bright green and almost white, may need a bit more calcium. Even right at the surface it's still green not so much as a hint of red.

That is strange. I think I have more light than you, but why is your Wallachi better. . Maybe traces in your water supply favors one over the other?

Wings,
Sometimes the center DW falls slightly so when I readjust it, it might be higher or lower - good catch!

My Scapes

Here's the latest full tank shot taken around 7pm EST.
I did a big trim job and water change on last Thursday before my trip.




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Tetra,
Tank looks really super great. Love the trim job!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

As usual, very nice tetratech,

To me it seems almost as if you are moving towards a triangular shape now. High on the left and falling almost in a straight line down towards the right. Except for the low area all the way on the left.

And - we need more Riccia

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks!

No, definitely not moving toward triangle. I guess I need to get the wisteria and/or stargrass alittle fuller and sloped on the left. Not sure anymore how much the wallachi fits in. In terms of aestitics it would look cleaner without it, but we'll see. Here's a pic of the wallachi about a month ago and now. I'm trying to see if it's getting any fuller. Here to get a perfect comparsion but look at each stem.



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tetratech,

Nice comparison shot

To me, it does not look any fuller, when looking at each stem seperately. Overall, the gap between leaves seems about the same, the leaf thickness and length seems the same as well (although the new picture makes them appear thinner, as it was taken from further away). It definately is redder though.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

You might be right, Definitely alittle reddier. It might be wishful thinking, but I think I see more leaves between the nodes, but I might be

Here's a pic of the main center. My wife still thinks the aromatica tops are flowers

As the aromatica grows it grows horizontially and when the stem is exposed this way new headers come out. It's still quite full after all that trimming I did last week as new heads pop up. All this was from one stem originally ordered.

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Beautiful tetratech

Let her believe they are flowers, there is nothing wrong with that. Whatever makes the lady happy and associates her with the hobby is a good thing.

Well, not to be conpetitive, but all my Star Grass is from 4 rotting stems that I "rescued" at the LFS about 10 months ago, then had it in my 29G for about 4 months with little to no success (either to dark where they were located and also the platies see it as food), then it moved to the 20G where it grew strong for a while, and then one tiny bush of maybe 3 stems moved to the big tank - and you know how it is now .

I guess if you can wait out the period of multiplication and if your tank conditions are right one would be able to do this with all kinds of plants (although one would have to wait forever to grow a farm of Anubias from only one ). The problem is the "meantime", keeping the tank sufficiently filled with "weeds" until the desired plants are strong enough in numbers.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Let her believe they are flowers, there is nothing wrong with that. Whatever makes the lady happy and associates her with the hobby is a good thing.

I couldn't agree more

Well, not to be conpetitive, but all my Star Grass is from 4 rotting stems that I "rescued" at the LFS about 10 months ago, then had it in my 29G for about 4 months with little to no success (either to dark where they were located and also the platies see it as food), then it moved to the 20G where it grew strong for a while, and then one tiny bush of maybe 3 stems moved to the big tank - and you know how it is now .

I find it very satisfying when that happens. A tiny little piece becomes in both our cases the center piece of our tanks.

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Here's a current pic from last nite. Not much new too report. Shading on the foreground is definitely an issue as I believe it slows growth and opens door for alittle bba to make it's way onto the plants in the foreground.

I'm also considering finding branchy lighter pieces and replacing the bulking driftwood I have. These big pieces also make keeping the center full of lush plants.



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Well it appears I'm having a log discussion with myself. Maybe its run it's course and it's time to start my darkside log Anyhoo I did make a few changes.

1. Removed large DW piece and replaced with smaller branchy piece. I found the original DW was producing a fair amount of shading and I already notice the riccia is growing faster after a few days. I will probably try to find slender left and right DW pieces to keep it similiar.
I might even replace the center rock with a somewhat shorter piece to help with light somemore.

2. Placed wisteria right to the edge of the center rock on both left and right. It makes the tank looker fuller I think and hides some stems.

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That looks really good. Removing the big piece of driftwood seems to make the tank feel more open as well. I like how you almost seem to make the westeria a carpet!

Looks good.



Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Tetra,

Welcome to my world. I swore I was just talking to myself most of the time.

I really like the new DW. It looks quite nice. Any close ups?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetra, buddy, how can we comment on perfection? I suggest you enter into a Zen-like state and appreciate the beauty of your creation... then start a new tank and new log of course.

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Back in the saddle!

Thanks for all the comments. Yes the smaller DW definitely opens the tank more and creates more opportunity to layer the plants.

tetra, buddy, how can we comment on perfection? I suggest you enter into a Zen-like state and appreciate the beauty of your creation... then start a new tank and new log of course.

Sounds good Nowher, but if I go into a Zen-like state in front of my tank that's in my kitchen my wife will be laughing all the way to the attorney.

Wings here's a closer shot of the center.


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Thanks for the picture tetra! Its very nice. I would add in some more pieces. Would look really great!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

An interesting thing happened when I tried to acclimate 5 new cardinals to my current school/shoal/herd/pack/pride (oh you get the point) of 18 cardinals.

I floated and blending in water over the course of 2 hours (too tired to do the drip method). After this time I netted two of the cardinals in the bag and put them in the tank. Within 30 seconds they were gasping at the surface. I immediately netted them back into the bag with the other three cardinals and within a few minutes they made a complete recovery.

The new cards were obviously reacting to the high co2 in the tank. It also didn't help that I was doing this right before lights out and the co2 was probably at it's highest.
All the other cardinals in the tank are fine and goes to show very clearly how fish can tolerate alot if changes come slowly over a prolonged period of time.

I ended up keeping the cardinals in the bag till 1 am (about 5 hours) while I did a 10% water change and waited for the ph to come up a bit. They were then acclimated and all are fine.

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That is pretty true. A drip method would have probably worked best. Glad everything worked out well.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

tetratech,

I am so sorry to have neglected your log for that last few days, but I have 2 excuses:

1) I was rather busy with the collection of random thoughts (aka equipment identification) for my new tank

2) For some odd reason, your log didn't show up in my Active Threads and I basically assumed there were no new entries. I wonder if this is a random site behavior or if there is a rule for active threads that I am not aware of.

Anyway, you will not have to talk to yourself, we are here for you

I like the new look, it sure makes the main group appear larger. I am a little worried that the new wood is too short and may become less visible when the Wisteria is growing taller.

Glad to hear that the new layout helps the Riccia as I am sure that even more of it can significantly enhance the foreground.

That's it for now,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Well LF so nice of you to stop in. Can I get you something? Those are very legimitate excuses

Anyway thanks for the comments. Yeah the new dw is small and I am in search of some new pieces. It's amazing how much brighter my tank is. I might decide to even replace the center rock with something alittle shorter. If I don't like the way it looks I have plenty of pics to recreate the old look.

Excuse me as I go back to humming "Rainy days and Mondays"

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Those are very legimitate excuses

Glad you see it that way

Anyway, I was giving your latest Cardinal additions some more thought. I am rather surprised that they would be gasping at the surface. Yeah, your CO2 may be pretty high at that time of the day, but shouldn't your O2 be very high as well?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Ingo,

I'm not sure it works this way. Chemicals always move across a barrier from High Concentration to low concentration. When fish breathe through there gills the blood contains a higher concentration of CO2 than the water and thus the CO2 diffuses out. As you increase the amount of CO2 in the water that difference become smaller up to the point that they are equal. Once this happens the fish can not expel the CO2 from the body and suffocate. The amount of O2 in the water has no effect on the CO2 leaving the fish. That is why there is a ceiling that we can't pass when injecting CO2.

Now nature is a wonderful thing and Tetras cardinal's had seemed to adjust to the higher CO2 concentration but the new ones would have been shocked by it.

Hope that helps.


Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Maybe it wasn't a CO2 or an O2 thing. Maybe it was just a drastic PH swing for them.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

So I took out all of my big pieces of DW (they needed cleaning anyway) and put smaller pieces in there place. Granted these are too small and I'll probably look for longer branchier pieces (maybe I have to call the other Jeff), anyway this give an idea of what the tank looks like with less DW. It's much lighter and gives me more room to grow plants. Look you could actually see my rotala again. Some of the stems that got caught in the large DW shadow have already shown improvement after only a few days.



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Where is the super sized smiley with the shades? I need about 10 of them.

Awesome tetratech. I can't believe the difference in light you got from the change of driftwood. Does it look so much brighter in nature as well?

I guess very soon we will not be able to see your mid and background plants anymore as the Riccia will start to produce a bubble wand of air

It seems your Blyxa is rather green. This plant should also soon start to turn brownish/yellowish given the better light access.



Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF, I'll definitely be in the market for several tall, thin branchy pieces. The riccia already looks better, but not sure if there's still enough light to turn the Blyxa colors. BTW - The experiment with the Blyxa ended in my 12g. It did not grow with 2.2wpg, Excel and EI.



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I'll definitely be in the market for several tall, thin branchy pieces

Maybe you want to give "the other Jeff" a call .

It did not grow with 2.2wpg, Excel and EI

Uh, let us hope that around 2.5wpg and way more water (40G) will be enough for me to grow it.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Tetra,
That last picture is really nice. I love the lighter look. It really shows your tank in a new light....

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks Wings.

I'd like to see how it looks with some longer branchier pieces.

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I'll sneak in a couple of pics on Mother's Day

I feel like I've bascially created an attractive tank for my large and getting larger school of cardinals. The tank has nice plant mass, but also has alot of open space where I think the colors of the cardinals really show up nice.

I think I've captured 21 cards in this pic.

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Here's a full tank shot. I really like this shot for the colors in the plants. Now you could see the supporting role the rotala r. has taken on the mound without the bulkier DW in there. I will probably replace or add larger branchier pieces and might change the main rock to something shorter, but overall I'm pretty happy with this look.

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Tetra,

Really great shot of your tank. It truly shows off the colors of the tank and gives your tank full justice.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

but overall I'm pretty happy with this look

As you should

Besides having your tank being very pretty indeed, you also managed to get a show-like picture. All in focus, nice light, perfect.

In the last shot the rock in front of the main group actually looks nice. It creates a separation of back, left, and right, in my eyes a good thing.

The one scape entity that I still thinks needs work is the Riccia. It appears a little artificial and needs to grow in larger matts.

Very nice shot,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

As usual, good observations and thanks.
That was an interesting catch on the main rock, although it breaks the green and gives some definition to areas I never really noticed it as clearly as your observation.

The riccia could be alittle fuller, but I'm actually happy it's growing in the shadow of that rock. As you might have observed, the rock has a sort of overhang to it. With the top right overshadowing the lower right of the rock. If you look down to the right side (where that cardinal is) you could see the riccia is actually growing right against the rock under the overhang. Considering it's fairly light demanding when grown attached to the substrate, I'm pretty happy it's able to survive in that area.

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THE TANK LOOKS AMAZING I LOVE IT...IVE GOT SOME GREAT IDEAS FOR MY 20 GALLON LONG AQUARIUM...SOON TO BE OOUT UP..oh sry about the caps didnt realize they were on till now lol ment to ask because i havent really read over everything but are you using CO2 and how many watts do u have on the tank?

bratyboy2,

Thanks for the comments. I have 192watts of light which gives me about 2.7 wpg.

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It's amazing how fast a tank can get out of hand. No LF I don't mean algae. You can put your tongue back in your mouth. .

I mean growth. This was my tank five days ago, Plants pretty much reached the top, but tank was looking good.

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And this was my tank earlier today. I am a little
This is the most I've let my tank go.
Look how dark it is under the main area.

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And here it is this evening after a major trim and I mean major. I took out alot of mass. Maybe I'll get algae (LFs tongue comes out again)

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I had some really nice pearling tonite.
Plants pearl everynite, but today was exceptional.




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Cardinal a la aromatica:







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tetratech,

Your plants sure show some excellent growth

That was a major trim, your center group went from B52 to Skin Head

I like the close-up "Cardinal a la aromatica", besides the plants and fish it shows your increasing talent for taking nice pictures

Is that main rock showing some red algae on it, or is that its natural coloration (being petrified wood) ?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks Ingo,

That was a major trim, your center group went from B52 to Skin Head

Sorry no red algae, natural colors of the petrified wood.

I'm surprised you didn't see the add'l riccia cover rock in the foreground.

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I'm surprised you didn't see the add'l riccia cover rock

Oh, now that you mention it, yeah - I see it . Now you need a few more and let them grow in just a little and they will appear to be one carpet.

In any case, are you using really a hair net to fix the Riccia on the rocks?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

In any case, are you using really a hair net to fix the Riccia on the rocks?

Absolutely. I think it's the only way to go. Think about it. If you use thread much of the growing riccia will not be held down and it will eventually float up. With the hairnet it's all held down until you get so much growth that it breaks away.

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Oh, what the hell!

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Your Tank looks great. I have one question... Can you please do one final run up of the total cost and fish and plants? Or is that too much to ask?

Chris

Oh, what the hell!

When have the Boesemani been added to the tank? Was that this weekend? How many overall did you get? I hope more than 2, right?

Otherwise, beautiful

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I hope more than 2, right?

They only had two, but I would like to add one more, although I think both of these might be the same sex and I'm thinking they are both boys. I'll need some of your rainbow expertise. If they are both boys, I'm probably better off leaving it at two being that I don't have the same for say 6 or 7.

Here's another shot:

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I'll need some of your rainbow expertise

Well, I don't have a load of expertise, but I would up the group no matter what. If my Neon Dwarfs are similar, then I think that the male/female ratio in these fish is not as important. I find that the dominant male is busy chasing all other males away from the females (I have currently 2f and 3m in the main tank, with 3 more males to follow from the QT soon). This leaves the females with much less stress than let's say with platies.

There is a clear visual difference in males and females in my Neons, and when you look at the web for this fish you usually only find males in pictures. What are the gender differences in your Rainbows? If they are easy to sex and you have only males then you could opt to get only males in addition (if you like to). Boys hanging out with boys tend to be much less agressive towards each other then when one girl come along (just like people).

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks,

From what I've read the females are more a solid greyish color. If that's true these are differently male, because you could clearly see the half blue/half yellowish coloration.

I just got these yesterday afternoon, acclimated for 2.5 hours and put them in. I don't have the luxury of a QT but I have my friend Mr. UV to help. They started eating that evening and to my dislike started to aggressively chase the rummys around the tank. Only the rummys I haven't seen them chase anything else.

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and to my dislike started to aggressively chase the rummys around the tank

One more reason to up the group so they are busy chasing each other rather than a different species. Two have figured out quickly "who is the boss". But a group of 6 will have ongoing hierarchy "issues" as every day the group will be busy anew based on the short attention span to existing formations.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

One more reason to up the group so they are busy chasing each other rather than a different species

Well, I guess I'll observe them for a while, if they start to disrupt the delicate balance in my tank back they'll go to the LFS.

I'm getting a little concerned about fish load with these additions. I also added back in my black neons since the load was too high in the 12g. Since nothing dies it's almost impossible to by more fish without another tank or trading some in. The 12g has:

8 Gold Tetras
4 Black Neons (3 removed, 1 I can't %#$* catch.)
2 Kull loaches
3 Otos
3 Cherry shrimp
2 Amano shrimp

That was 22 fish/shrimp in a 12g. Now there are 19 and will be 18 when I catch the final %#$* black neon.

In the 72g:

23 Cardinals
8 otos
5 pencils
4 rummys
3 bolivan rams
2 bosemani rainbows
2 corys
Amano shrimp (don't know how many)

47 fish plus shrimp



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(3 removed, 1 I can't %#$* catch.)

Come on - it can't be that hard to get a fish in a tank that is pretty much open. I usually chase them with a stick into the open side of a tank and wait with the net there. Then I corner them and - voila.

Try catching Espei in a heavily planted tank, now that is a challenge. I think you may try again during the next water change at low tide.

About the stocking: Yeah, I see that the 12G could have been overstocked. But for the large tank, how about this:

23 Cardinals - great
8 otos - even better
5 pencils - return to LFS
4 rummys - return to LFS
3 bolivan rams - 3? where did the 3rd one come from?
2 bosemani rainbows - up the group to 6
2 corys - fine
Amano shrimp (don't know how many) - lovely
4 Black Neons - return to LFS

Just thinking,

Ingo

EDIT: tetratech - did you see This Thread I Created?

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Thanks LF,

That restocking list is pretty much my thinking. Typo on the 3rd ram.

This is the catch-22 with the rainbows and why I mentioned they might be returned. I already noticed them nipping on my riccia mounds of which will not be tolerated. Putting big fish in planted tanks especially ones that are omnivores in always difficult. Now one could say if I feed more this will not happen, but I'm unwilling to feed in excess as you know, because I feel stronger than ever that this is a major problem.

So who knows I might end up with 40 cardinals, 2 rams and a clean up crew.

BTW - I did just see your thread. I've gotten into a bad habit of hitting my shortcut on my desktop that goes right to active threads.

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I already noticed them nipping on my riccia mounds of which will not be tolerated.

Yeah, that is right, I totally forgot. You may remember that I once searched for an answer as to where all my duckweed went. Well, you may also remember that I figured that I thinned the group out during a water change and that the remaining ones could not spread faster than my fish ate them. And these fish would be the Pearls, and yes - the Rainbows. No doubt, if yours are even remotely similar then they will eat the Riccia, as it is a tasty treat

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

They are both boys. Both are still very young. They will get much bigger and brighter. The yellow will eventually turn to an orange colored.

6 full grown ones may be too much for the tank. Rainbows are generally light on the bio load, they produce very little waste, but they will get big and are quite active. A male and female will spawn on a almost daily basis every early morning.

They do grow very slowly though. I've had a couple for years. After 2 years the male is still not full grown, but still bigger then the Pearl Gourami.

Male Boesmanii gave be quite feisty, they won't do any real harm but will chase smaller fish out of the way if moody. But if you try to add any small fish with a Boesmanii around he'll assume you are providing a tasty snack.

They don't touch plants as a rule but yers I've seen mine pull apart Riccia apart for fun when I had it, so much so I made a post about it, a good while back, in the Photo booth forum.

I like them but to be honest I wouldn't have them again unless I had a large all rainbow tank. That's were they look the best.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

Bensaf,

I guess I'll decide after a few weeks if they are keepers. It was very against my fish purchasing instincts but I kinda wanted a centerpiece that would possibly make the cards school tigher, but that hasn't happened, in fact they cards seem scattered around now on the nonstop swimming antics of the rainbows.

BTW - I found your riccia salad thread but the pics were gone. Apparently your rams also ate the stuff, mine have never touched it.





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I kinda wanted a centerpiece that would possibly make the cards school tigher

Pearls seem to work for LF

EDIT: Dang! I'm sorry for taking post 1500, tetra

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Back in the saddle!

EDIT: Dang! I'm sorry for taking post 1500, tetra

Don't worry, your worthy.

What I'm really annoyed about is this:

Bring back any memories Bensaf:

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It does.

Don't know why but they ripped the Riccia apart, quite deliberately. But I've had Riccia in the tank since, in smaller quantities but they didn't touch it. Either bored or the smaller clumps didn't attract them.

They are not the best choice for a centerpiece fish, way too active.

Deinately Gouramies would be a better bet, especially the Pearls.

None of them really work for getting smaller fish to school tighter. In the same way the fish figure the tank is a safe place and spread out, they soon figure that big scary fish that just arrived is in fact just a big wimp and stop schooling anyway.

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

None of them really work for getting smaller fish to school tighter

Same experience here

The only time my 500 Espei school is if I scare them, either on purpose to see them peruse the tank (rarely) or during water changes when they flee from the vacuum.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

The only time my 500 Espei school

I thought espei were great schoolers. They don't school like Harquelins?


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They don't school like Harquelins

Harleys aren't great schoolers either. They just sit there and move a little bit. Like most groups they school mainly when the gravel vac is there, or something new plops in the tank.

Lazy cypranids

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Back in the saddle!

Well tetratech ,

Here is my spin on the schooling:

What is the purpose of schooling in fish? Most likely security, "save in numbers". Also, social aspects, like "who is the boss" , may play a role, but less importantly.

Now imagine a tank where about every 3 inches away from you there is another one of your kind, no matter where you go (and I assume this is similar for most species of schoolers). Creating a tight formation with enough others is a matter of a second, alas the feeling of security is given all the time. On the other hand, if there are only a few of you scattered throughout the tank then it would take quite a while until a safe group has formed. In this case, it would be better to "hang" closer to each other, aka schooling.

So my spin is: there is a point where a school is becoming so large (in a tank) that there is no need to school anymore.

Food for thoughts,

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Harleys aren't great schoolers either.

Oh, I meant to shoalers.

But they don't scatter do they. I had harleys for about a year and they were always by each other's side.

Rummy's a good, but they looked washed out in my setup.



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LF,
I posted after you posted, anyway you might have a point.
I've always heard the more you add to a species the better they will school, but size of tank can have an impact I'd imagine.

It's funny one of the better LFS I have on the Island always puts little descriptions of the fish on a little sticker on the glass. Some examples:

Harquelin Rasboras - "One of the best schoolers"
Neon Tetra - "The fish that started it all, good schooler"
Cardinal Tetra "Beautiful fish, great schooler"

Dwarf Neon Rainbow - "New species"


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Dwarf Neon Rainbow - "New species"

Wow, I have a new species, I AM SO SPECIAL

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Sad part is I almost fell for it as I pushed my nose up against the glass so see if they were different.

Very beautiful fish. I almost bought those instead of the Bosemani.

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Thought this was a nice shot. Tank almost looks like it has two mounds with the taller wisteria in the back.
I also like all the color (both fish and plants). I think its shows that the tank has depth and interest as well.



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My Dwarf Neon Rainbows are peaceful little fishies, never bother anybody but their own species (and that only with showing off), and their blue shine with the red finnage is very pretty. Maybe you should give them a try.

About your tank: Very nice, I like the slightly different angle you used to make this photo. I guess that is one of the advantages of a bowfront as the tank seems to change when you look into the curved glass from different angles.

Ingo

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Had some time this weekend, so I decided to see how the tank would look with a different main rock. As you could see in this pic, I replaced the rock with what is actually two rocks which created an opening in between them.



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Here's a full tank view:

This lower rock allows even more light to reach the foreground. I've also moved the Blyxa on the right side even more right to allow space to plant more riccia.



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Nice tetratech,

This rock makes the plants shine even more, although it is all rather green in there .

I would assume that you will have to watch out that this smaller rock will not be consumed by the plants. The Wisteria seems to thrive like mad.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

tetra,

What's that fish in the upper right corner-ish region of the tank - it looks almost like a yo-yo loach...


LF, love the avatar

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Back in the saddle!

This rock makes the plants shine even more, although it is all rather green in there

What's weird is last nite I took that pic and the rotala and aromatica looked really red, but for some reason the camera didn't capture it on my usual settings.

Nowher,


That's funny it does look like a yo-yo, but believe it or not it's not even a fish, it's actually just glare.

EDIT: LF I'm surprised you didn't see the twig in between the rocks.



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LF I'm surprised you didn't see the twig in between the rocks

I thought it was a dead fish

Honestly, I don't really extract the pictures that I look at and search for clues under the microscope on how the "masters" have managed to build stonehedge . What is this twig for? A coat hanger for the fish?



Ingo

Oh, and don't forget to read about my latest issues with the 40G breeder.

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A coat hanger for the fish

Oh you bad. I think it adds intersest to the tank. I'm looking for a better twigh though.

A dead fish in my tank. I don't think so.

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Although green, my Blyxa have definitely started to look healther and no more BBA since I removed some shading.



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But I didn't expect this:



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Hi tetratech

As always, your tank is beautiful. What is the plant called in the picture with the twig. Not the wisteria, the plant that is above rock / twig arrangement? Will it grow in low/medium light, or does it require high light?

thanks,
Robyn


Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn,

The plant right above the main rock is Limnophila aromatica. It was sold to me as Eusteralis stellata, but the popular opinion is that it's the aromatic. It is bordered by Stargrass on either side. This tank has 2.7wgp and it grows like a monster. It's actually more colorful than the last pic. (if you go back in the log you'll see more colorful shots).

I also have it growing in my 12g which has only 2.2wpg. It grows fine, but not as lush. Like alot of colorful plants, more light usually means more color.



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But I didn't expect this:

Is this:

a) A CO2 bubble stuck on a leaf?
b) Pearling?
c) Fish Exhaust?



Ingo

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I believe it's "B".

fish exhaust

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I believe it's "B".

Sure it is, I was just pulling your strings . You dont think it was funny ? I guess I will have to try harder the next time around .

BTW, my Blyxa is the most static plant (besides the Isoetes Lacustris) that I have ever seen.I don't think they have grown at all in the almost 4 weeks since I added them to the tank.

Ingo

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No it was funny, I guess I wasn't totally focusing. Here
s my belated laugh

Yes the Blyxa is really stagnet. As you can see mine are still very much alive, but haven't done much that's why I was amazed at the pearl. I'm starting to think it demands extremely high light to actually grow. Although in my tank with all the stems in a way it's welcome relief.

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Thanks for the belated laugh

I think you are very right about the extreme high light. The guy I bought the Blyxa from has it growing in his 125G. He has an overall lighting period of 9 or 10 hours and high lights for 6 of them. And he has the same light than I do, means 6 hours in over 3wpg on a 125G.

Ingo

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And he has the same light than I do, means 6 hours in over 3wpg on a 125G

Don't even thing about it

Anyway one of my favorite things about summer. Shrimp on a stick.



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What do you think?



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You like or not?



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Nah

In the last picture it looks like you crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out

Doesn't do it for me at all,

Ingo

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In the last picture it looks like you crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out

Where do you come up with these? Anyway I might playaround with the position alittle bit.



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Hey tetratech, I think it looks nice & interesting, although I can also see Ingo's image of

a crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out

. Do you worry that the fishies might hurt themselves on the sticks? It's probably just me, but I tend to worry if things are too pointy, but that's probably just old worry wart me. (I spent part of today sanding down the rough pointy edges of some rock caves I'm making out of broken slate).

Cheers
TW

Thanks Robyn,

No I think the fish instinctively move around objects in the water. Who's to see what falls into a lake in nature. Branches fall off trees, etc.

Here's a full tank shot from this morning. Changed something?

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Changed Something? - hm, the things I notice as different are the specific postions of the crab legs and some Wisteria bush behind on the right-off-center back (but this may just be growth) and the rock that is in front of it.

Also, I notice that you are back to the trianguar layout, just like you were the last time before a major trim. Is that on purpose this time?

Compared to the last full tank shot it appears that the front of the tank is more shaded again.

Otherwise, just as beautiful as usual.

Ingo

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Changed Something? - hm, the things I notice as different are the specific postions of the crab legs

Easy there big fella and remember you have a new tank coming up for my to judge. Funny you call them crab legs because another crustanean (amano shrimp) really like them. He comes out of his new cave to look around.

Yes, there basically I moved the wallachi over to join the main group and put a rock into that area. Not the rock I want, but I don't have a closet of them to choose.
And yes, I did trim to get that full triangluar look. For some reasoon I think the tank looks best that way.
Also the tank sometimes looks darker because both sets of lights aren't on sometimes.

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Easy there big fella and remember you have a new tank coming up for my to judge.

Uh, I guess I forgot that . Sorry - Grand Master Tetratech, I promise to be more restrained in my judgement of your tank (or not).

Anyway, yeah - the triangular shape is nice, but you will have to watch out that the left sections doesn't lose interest. I mean, there is just Wisteria and once the eye is doen following an incline from right to left, why still look at a low field of even more Wisteria?

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Anyway, yeah - the triangular shape is nice, but you will have to watch out that the left sections doesn't lose interest. I mean, there is just Wisteria and once the eye is doen following an incline from right to left, why still look at a low field of even more Wisteria?

Maybe I misunderstood "Triangle" I"m not trying to make the high point the corner. I stil want the peak offcenter with the aromatica, so I should still say mound although it's not a soft rounder point, but just left to center full and center to right full but still declining.

Here's another closer pic of the main area. I love the lushness.

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Nice close-up tetratech,

I have noticed it before, but in this shot I was reminded of it - one cannot say that you have only a few fish either. What did you say? Around 40? And on average all of your fish are quite a bit bigger than mine (I would assume 1 card is like 2 espei).

About the triangle, let me see if I got that straight. You plan to keep the shape like my yellow lines. If so, the area I referred to as becoming "less interesting" is the one in the orange circle.

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Lines and Circle

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Let's see:

23 Cards
8 Otos
5 Pencils
4 Black Neons (moved from 12g)
4 Rummys
2 Rainbows
2 Rams

48 Fish Total
8 are otos, 5 pencils (tiny)


With the addition of the rainbows and the black neons I'm definitely pushing it. But remember light is the driver. I have less of it for algae to utilize. I also keep hitting on the feeding. When I lift rocks or plants there is almost no mess. That to me is an indicator of the waste level in the tank.

I could see from the pic why you see triangle, but with a few snips this is what my tank is really about:




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Yeah,

That type of mound makes more sense, given the current left side.

Fish:

23 Cards (x 1.5 per Espei = 34 Espei)
8 Otos (have 6, plus 2 Espei)
5 Pencils (6 Espei)
4 Black Neons (moved from 12g) (8 Espei)
4 Rummys (6 Espei)
2 Rainbows (my 3 Rainbows)
2 Rams (my 2 Pearls)

So this means: all others than the Espei are covered, plus 50 Espei. Plus 53 extra gallons of water in my tank for the additional maybe 40 Espei. Basically, I have less fish than you do

I know that's not good math, but hey, makes me feel better

Ingo

EDIT: uh, forgot the Apsitos and the 3 additional Rainbows in a few weeks

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Yeah, I don't know if 1 card equals 1.5 espei in terms of waste. As I said it's also a matter of feeding, plus mass, plus light. Mabye because 90% of my substrate is covered with fert hungry wisteria it all get's sucked up quickly.

Anyway did some add'l trimming to get this:



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Your tank looks great. I have no idea how you cut to shape like you guys do. Do you trim while the tank is full? Otherwise, I assume the tall stems just bend over. Must make it even harder to shape the triangle when you cut from the bottom (although I usually get to do a couple of wisteria trims from the top, before I have to do that).

I like the low wisteria in the front & that's how I hope mine goes. Guess that means frequent removal & triming from the bottom?

Anyway, looking good.

Cheers
TW

Ah, the mound

Yeah, I that looks nice, now simply go ahead and freeze-frame the tank

Two things though, one that I thought about but forgot to mention, the other one from this picture:

1) A assume you noticed that the branch on the right of the main group is pretty much consumed by the plants.

2) What happened to the rock that you just introduced us to? Was this picture taken from a different angle or why can I not see it anymore?

Ingo

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Robyn,

Thanks. A little tip on the wisteria. If you want it to stay low longer, when you trim and replant, replant the top on like a 45 degree angle. It will be more likely to grow roots along the stem and will anchor itself in the substrate and grow along it. That's pretty much how I spread mine. It's basically layer upon layer of horizontal growth.

LF,
The branches and rock at this point look O.K. but are pretty much marking the spot where longer branches and a bigger rock will go. I'll have to trim more to keep branches visible.

The pic is taken down low so you don't see the rock (Not tall enough). I think the other pic was taken higher up.

Here's a pic showing the edge of my mound with Rotala R, Rotala W and the rock that was hidden in previous pic.
The taller wisteria in the back behind the rock is not rooted below. It is growing from the right alway across the back alittle off the substrate.



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I wasn't going to post any more pics tonite, but I thought these were pretty good.

First since we've been talking otos:



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And a nice shot of one of my Bosemani Rainbows. These guys have colored up nicely already:



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Looking Good Tetra, Looking Good.

I always enjoy seeing your tank pictures.

Rick
See all my pictures at Google Web Albums

Wow tetratech,

Somehow I did not see this fish pictures until this morning. Did you secretly aquire a new camera? These are really cloe-close-ups . The Oto in particular is frightening large in the picture.

Nice shot on the rainbow as well, although I have to say that he doesn't look very happy to see you out there with the camera

Ingo

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Rick,
Thanks! Always nice to hear comments.

LF,
That was my first reaction, hugh. Do you know there really is a giant oto species? I saw them one time in a LFS. Not very attractive. No same camera, I've discovered the "super macro mode". The limitation of my current camera (Canon S2 IS) is film speed. Only goes up to 400.



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No, I have never heard about a giant Oto. I wonder if they just gave that fish some name based on similar features (or behaviors) but basically it is a completely different species.

Super Macro Mode - - up to 400, I guess that would be fast enough for pictures of your snails .

No really, nice shots, once again,

Ingo

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I can't confirm that it was an actual oto species, but it did have the same triangular head. Speaking of otos have you ever seen the zebra variety at your LFS. I did one time and wish I would have bought them.



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No, I have never seen them, cute.

I wonder if they exist in nature of if they are some form of special breed only available from fish farms.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

Beautiful pictures - I have serious camera envy. I've never seen those striped otos - they are very nice.

Cheers
TW

Good Morning!

I meant to discuss this some time ago. What does it mean when you have no snails in your tank. I mean I've had snails that obviously came with plants, but they simply don't survive in my tank. I don't have any snail eaters either.




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Oh yes tetratech, you do have snail eaters

Your Rams eat the snails, and lots of fish will eat snail eggs. When I crush my snails in the 29 the Platies are all over them. When I had my Apsitos in the QT, in about 3 weeks I could not find any snails anymore. Now, that they are in the big tank, the QT has snails again (but not too many) and it appears that the 125 has much less.

I am also sure that water conditions, like low GH, have an influence on snails, less calcium means weaker shells and earlier demise. Also, if you had (which I think you don't) MTS, they would eat other small snails.

Ingo

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Proud Member of the New Jersey Aquatic Gardeners Club

I am also sure that water conditions, like low GH, have an influence on snails, less calcium means weaker shells and earlier demise

I wasn't even thinking of that, but your probably right. I know my water has a very low GH and I've differently seen white snail shells around.

I guess my rams could be eating somes snails in the jungle of wisteria, but I've never witnessed them doing so.

Here's a pic from this morning taken thru the side showing the plants "waking up"


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Holy (Fill in your option)

Now here is a totally surprising view of your tank. I would have never guessed that it is so narrow and how steep the incline to the background plants is.

Nice visual tetratech,

Ingo

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Holy (Fill in your option)

Holy "Wisteria Monster"

Anyway some updated pics. You'll notice two things. I've added more riccia to the right front and I've upped my po4 dosing while reducing no3 somewhat. Plants look more red I think?






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Full view from above:



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Full view from straight ahead:

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Looks so lovely!!!
What about some carpet plants

Great job tetratech!!!

JQW,
I think thats the wisteria and riccia's job.

Tetra,
Tank looks really nice as normal.

I think things are looking more red too. Are you still adding higher iron levels? How much have you been messing with your levels?

I am working on trying to get some more color in my tank. I had a lot of green in the old set up but I want to mix it up a bit. Still not quite on a normal schedual after coming back yet...



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

I also think that it looks more red than at an earlier stage.

So you say you up P and lower N. What do you think its current proportion would be?

Ingo

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JQW,
Thanks for the comments. As wings said my riccia and wisteria are pretty much my carpet.

Wings,
I have stopped dosing FE on a regular basis. I just wasn't seeing much out of it. I'm still dosing Flourish 3 times a week, but the red now is from higher P.

So you say you up P and lower N. What do you think its current proportion would be?

Well let's see. For the longest time I was dosing 10 to 1:

0.50 tsp no3
0.05 tsp po4

As my mass increased I went to:

0.75 tsp no3
0.08(approx.) tsp po4

Still a 10 to 1 ratio, now with my new dosing:

0.50 tsp no3
0.10 tsp po4

So I'm at 5 to 1, which is probably what alot of people do anyway, but I wasn't.

I'm deciding whether I should increase it to:

.75 tsp no3
.15 tsp po4

Either way I'm dong things sloooowly

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Either way I'm dong things sloooowly

Good man! Thanks for the info!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

Thanks tetratech,

0.50 tsp no3 is what I intend to dose the new 40G, given that I dose 1.5tsp on the 125 and this one is a third of that size.

How much po4 I dose has yet to be seen, I currently dose 1/8tsp (what's that, like 0.125tsp) on the big tank. A third of that would be 1/24 of a tsp, or 0.0417tsp ( how much is a smidgeon again? )

Ingo

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Hi,
When you guys figure out how much to dose a 40G tank, then
I'll know about how much to dose my 30. Its a nightmare
without a set of scales from my chemistry class!
I'm thinking that measuring spoons just arn't gonna make
it! Guess I'll have to give them back to Susan...

Frank



-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--

Well if we were in Europe we would all have scales bug most of use are not there or from there. On a side note, when I was in a college chem class they got a little funny about letting use bring the scales home. I asked my instructor about it and he said that they tend to get used for drugs a lot... Yay for being a small town fishing kind of guy.

BTW does LF have a thread running for his 40G?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric

0.50 tsp no3
0.05 tsp po4

That was a very small amount of PO4.

I must admit I never sweat the dosing. Very un-scientific. Don't even use a measuring spoon. Just get a rough idea dip the spoon, toss in the tank. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

The tank looks good tetra, looks redder to me.

One little thing though, I'd love to see some pics with "proper" light.I find your photos very dark. Tends to make things look a bit lifeless, can't see the fish or any interaction going on

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Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.

One little thing though, I'd love to see some pics with "proper" light

Yes, people have said that. Probably because when I take most of my pics it's in the evening after the second bulb has gone out, so it's only lite by one 96watt bulb. Of course if I forced more light it would look more alive. Since you asked, here's a slightly brighter shot.



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What's the matter tetratech,

Did Bensaf's comment cause you a sleepless night?

Well, with loads of light or not, your tank is still beautiful .

One day I will have a nice looking tank as well.

Ingo

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Did Bensaf's comment cause you a sleepless night

Look who's talking! Oh Bensaf is just nervous because the USA is going to take the cup this year. I guess in order to please Bensaf I'll have to invest in $10,000 worth of professional photography equipment and have a fan blow ripples across the surface of my tank.



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because the USA is going to take the cup this year

Good joke, tetratech

See, that is the beauty of this hobby. Even if your tank looks good, there is always at least one person who has something to nag about . This is what drives us, what makes us go the extra mile (although I personally have quite a few miles to go).

Ingo

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Good joke, tetratech!
I'm not laughing

Well Bensaf has just given me a reason to post a whole bevy of new pics.

I'm off to Home Depot to buy a fan

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Your pictures are always welcome, tetratech.

And, if I may suggest, don't get a fan, get a wave maker .

Ingo

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Thanks littlefish,

Here's some more "lively brighter" pics to please "My Master" and others who might find them interesting:



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Closeup shot of the Main Area and Eco Beach:

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Some of the main inhabitants:



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Another shot:



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This pic was taken around 8pm on Sunday. I haven't done a water change since last Sunday. I'll have to do my weekly wc tomorrow.



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