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  L# 72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
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Subscribe72 Gallon Bowfront Setup Log
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
Makes sense... but who knows with those darksiders. Fixated on pink blobs and dirty rocks. Weird bunch they are...


Why I oughtta *shakes fish at Nowherman*


BTW on the darkside I think UV usage is primarily to kill pathogens to protect the expensive and sensitive fish and not necessarily to prevent green water.


True 'nuff. If you have green salt water things are so far out of wack that a UV sterilizer isn't going to help much.

Now I'm tossing around the idea of using my old 46 gallon for a small reef with lots of live rock.


Yay. Do it do it. You won't regret it I promise. I've been enjoying every minute of it. There's ton's of ways to tinker - lights, plumbing, sumps, refugiums, Deep sand beds, protein skimmers, feeding corals, uber colorful fish(lots of options in your tank btw), inverts....the list goes on.

What book did you get tetratech? I bet you could make quite a nice aquascape with those "dirty rocks" since I've seen your work on a planted tank. If you have any questions feel free to ask....we're not exactly bogged down over there. Or shoot me a PM if you like.

We will never see him again in this forum . I know Matty wouldn't mind having a buddy over there, he once in a while complains that it gets pretty boring in the forum.


Hehe....I stop over now and again to say hi, and bug you about replacing bulbs and things of that nature.

*shakes another fish at nowherman*



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 02:32Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Play nice with the fish! They don't like all the shaking!

Someday when I am not moving every year I might try SW. My girl really likes it. Not quite my thing so I guess I will have to let her do it or it can be our project.... something like that.... but if we are doing SW then we can't have a fish only tank. Going to have to have some of those infections that bensaf knows how to get rid of.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 02:56Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Yay. Do it do it.

Well tanks alot Matty! I'll probably take you up on all the help your offering. I am getting more serious about doing it. I just need to relocate my 12g somewhere else and up goes the 46g. I was going to use my extra eheim canister and buy a hang-on protein skimmer. I want to really try to create something with the live rock. I have a AGA 110Watt 9325k cf fixture, not sure if that would work for the reef, so I might have to change that.

Oh the book I'm reading is "The New Marine Aquarium"

LF, don't worry my "roots" are still in planted tanks.


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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 03:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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You should, it's fun. ESPECIALLY if your girl wants to help. Technology and reef system design has made it reasonably easy(though a bit more expensive) to have a successful reef.

Oh and leave bensaf out of this....you don't want to get rid of those "infections" at least when they are in the SW tank and are otherwise known as corals.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 03:19Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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EditedEdited by mattyboombatty
I was going to use my extra eheim canister and buy a hang-on protein skimmer.


Canisters are great for fish only tanks. You will most likely want to give it the can for a reef tank though. Nitrate factory. AquaC remoras and Coralife superskimmers are about the only HOB skimmers I'd even think about.

D'oh...I forgot the most important thing. The live rock will be your filtration in a reef tank. Along with converting ammonia to nitrate....it also has the invaluable property of converting nitrate to nitrogen gas. That's right, a well set up reef tank should have no nitrates, phosphates, or an excess of dissolved organic carbon. Unlike a planted tank, any one of these WILL bring about some nasty algae.

I have a AGA 110Watt 9325k cf fixture, not sure if that would work for the reef, so I might have to change that.


That's really not enough to keep anything but shrooms and zoanthiids, if that. If I were you I'd upgrade to T5 HO or MH lighting. If you go with PCs you will need to get a new fixture anyways, probably 2X 96W like I have now. With that you could probably do just about all soft corals, and some LPS near the top. I can get away with lps all over the tank because my tank is quite a bit shorter. I'm thinking of upgrading to T5s. reefgeek has some nice looking fixtures, or you can do a DIY kit into a hood. Just make sure you get individual reflectors for T5 bulbs, that's what makes them so nice!

Oh the book I'm reading is "The New Marine Aquarium"


Good intro book. That was the first one I read. Not too much info about reefs in there though. The Conscientious Marine Aquarist, though a mouthfull is a good book. Corals I think by Eric Bourneman is a good one, though very heavy reading. A little text bookish, though jam packed with info. Anthony Calfo's book of coral propagation is good too. For a fish reference, Marine Fishes by Scott W. Micheal is about the best out there. The same publisher put out a book called Invertabrates, which covers the most common snails, shrimp, crabs, and whatnot. I'd use the internet for figuring out coral requirement though, since this is an ever evolving thing.

whew.....I'm tired.

EDIT... links



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 03:38Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Bloody hell, you pop out for a day and come back to find that the planted forum has turned into Marine Central Evrybodywants to jump to the dark side. Where'd I put my light sabre ??


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 03:49Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Not me, I will stay in the bright light for a looooong time

Hard core planters


tetratech - the image of the CO2 bubbles bouncing off the spray bar: are the bubbles being pushed down by the spray bar (in other words, is the spray direction diagonally downwards)? I seem to have issues with way too many bubbles just passing by the spray bar and reaching the surface right away. Could you explain to me how you have it all set up?

Thanks,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 11:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Hard core planters


Same here I guess, even though I was one toe stub away from trashing my whole tank, using every plant for seasoning in my cooking and selling the fish to market Cooler heads prevailed though.

Was curious about the spraybar myself, been playing around with my own setups...



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 13:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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LF,

I am having the same issue right now. I just added in a spray bar on the left side of the tank facing the right side(river system, kind of). I find that a lot of the bubbles don't hit the bar but go right on up. In my tank though I have a good hand full of exploding DuckWeed that traps in the bubbles.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 13:59Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
the image of the CO2 bubbles bouncing off the spray bar: are the bubbles being pushed down by the spray bar (in other words, is the spray direction diagonally

Yes, exactly Although my return tube is hanging over the left back corner, the spraybar is actually attached to the left glass in the middle via a suction cup. It keeps it very close to the left glass, so not much co2 is rising between the spray and the glass.

After cleaning my tubes and filter the other day the reach of the bubbles was even greater and I had unreal pearling starting at 4pm. I measured my ph just before lights out and it apppeared to be under 6 (light yellow on test kit)



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 14:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Matty,
Thanks for all that info. Sounds like if I OverKill on live rock I can get away with just a powerhead and protein skimmer? Is that possible with a light fish load?

I guess I'll have to start another log or PM you for more detail. I don't want to upside my planted tank comrades . They have helped me so much

Bensaf,
I must admit I'm alittle scared I might mistake the foamy protein skimmer cup for a cold dark one

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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 14:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
mattyboombatty
 
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That's entirely possible with a light fish load. Sumps and fuge's are good though, at least think about it. They aren't too difficult to do, and the benefits are good.


BTW - you'll notice that the skimmate is not a frosty beverage at about 6 inches from your nose....eww, stinky.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 14:29Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Matt,
You aren't kidding about the smell! I hate that stuff!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 19-Apr-2006 14:35Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I thought this was an interesting pic (or I'm just running out of pics to post.) It's a topographical view of my tank. It reminds me of a landscape blueprint where they use different symbols to represent trees, bushes, groundcover,etc.

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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 14:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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* trying to invision tetratech standing on top of the kitchen counter, one leg on each side of the tank, taking this picture *

* now I am trying to imagine how it would look like if I try to do the same over a 6' tank *

I love this shot. It took me almost one minute to understand from which angle I am looking at your tank. Once I got it I was really surprised to see how little space is available for the smaller plants in front of the main group. I always thought that this is a huge area. Shows how well you planted it

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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 15:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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trying to invision tetratech standing on top of the kitchen counter, one leg on each side of the tank, taking this picture *



Actually took off the top and stood on a barstool (completely sober) and took the pic from above.
You definitely get a different prospective. You could also see how shaded that front area gets since the light is resting on the back piece of glass. I would definitely need a light in the front to get good growth from the blyxa. Goes to show that riccia really doesn't need that much light.

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Post InfoPosted 21-Apr-2006 16:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Something else this picture shows is truly how much plant mass you are running with. That picture shows that you aren't just making it look like you have the mass.... My tank might be the other way around.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 03:20Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Full Tank Shot from this morning.
I've been dosing up po4 and FE and bringing down no3 in an attempt to get more red in. I think I see slight improvement.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 18:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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I never knew how aggressive the aromatica is. It really pushes everything out as it grows multiple thick stalks. Right now I let it go to the top but cut some stems toward the front to reducing shading on the foreground.
You could also see how surface of of my tank looks after running co2 for several hours.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 18:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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going back a few pages to look at the colors there is quite a bit of difference. Notice where most of the color is coming in though. Right at the top. This goes back to the plants defence use of red.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 19:49Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Notice where most of the color is coming in though. Right at the top. This goes back to the plants defence use of red.

Wings that's actually a good point, these two shots show growth over the last 12 weeks. Hard to tell if it's the change in nutrients or simply that the plant is closer to the top.

EDIT: 2 weeks not 12.




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Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 21:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
these two shots show growth over the last 12 weeks
What - 12 weeks No way.

You didn't have that much Riccia 12 weeks ago, and various other spots in the tank also looked different way back when.

I guess you mean 2 weeks, right?

Anyway, one thing is for sure, plants are growing woderfully. Is there a point at which you will have to replant that whole center group or can you maintain it for a few months without doing so?

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Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 23:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Oops Yes I meant 2 weeks. Glad your paying attention to the details.

I'm still kinda feeling out the center area. The aromatica as I've mentioned is pretty easy because that whole center area is like 6 or 7 stalks with multiple heads now. The stargrass as you know is more work, but bascially if the stem has multiple heads I cut off the taller one, because whenever I think it's too tall. If there's only one head then yes I'm doing what your doing and pulling them out and cutting the base.

Lately It seems like I've been alternating weeks with trimming - One week stargrass next aromatica, but it really depends on what I see.



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Post InfoPosted 22-Apr-2006 23:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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That is kind of what I am doing too. Cut this one week cut that the next. You aren't changing too much at one time that way. Good catch on the details LF!

I will post some pictures of my tank in a bit! Better look out!

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 23-Apr-2006 01:24Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well since my last pic got lost. Here's a shot from tonite.
Didn't have the heart to cut the aromatica yet. This plant is a monster.







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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 03:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
This plant is a monster

I guess this is the time when you wish your tank would be much taller

Yup, tetratech, growth is as lush as usual, but it also looks like the Wisteria is maybe betting a little too full, can that be?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 10:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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but it also looks like the Wisteria is maybe betting a little too full, can that be?

Yeah definitely some areas that a revolting and try to grow vertically I guess I'll have to crack the wrap

Tank is definitely due for a major shaping although it has it's appeal this way as well, but I notice that the riccia is challenged this way.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 12:30Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Didn't have the heart to cut the aromatica yet.

Tetra if you don't look out you are going to have giant hygro syndrome. Maybe you should have got the 80 bow?
Wisteria is maybe betting a little too full

The wisteria is looking quite thick. Here is the question though... Are you going to actually thin it out or just shape it by cutting it down.


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 14:55Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Tetra if you don't look out you are going to have giant hygro syndrome. Maybe you should have got the 80 bow?

What is that tank a little taller than mine?

The wisteria is looking quite thick. Here is the question though... Are you going to actually thin it out or just shape it by cutting it down.

What and mess around with my main biofilter. That's like taking live rock out of a reef tank

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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 16:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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What is that tank a little taller than mine?


Same tank just 8 gallons taller. Kind of tall for me though. It think they are the same hight as a 90 or 110.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 22:15Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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What and mess around with my main biofilter. That's like taking live rock out of a reef tank


To answer your question Wings, I'll probably trim a down and remove anything that doesn't look healthy in the lower levels. I'm not planning on uprooting or anything like that.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Apr-2006 22:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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That is kind of what I was guess.

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 00:04Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Did a major trim job on the aromatica list nite. These are the stems I couldn't fit in.



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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 16:20Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Sell 'em baby!

And where's the full frontal tank shot?


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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 16:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Sell 'em baby!

How much you think there worth? I think I payed $3.49 a stem online.

It's hard to get a good shot right now because of the sun in my kitchen.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 16:46Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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O.K. full tank shot comparing before and after major trim

Obviously the rotala and wallachi needs to be trimmed as well. The Wallachi is growing better since backing off no3 and adding more po4/micros, but it's still growing leggy so must be a light issue (Bensaf chime in any time)

One issue I have with my tank is the center DW. It's very wide and it doesn't allow me to "lush up" the area under and around it as much as I would like because of the shade issues.

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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 17:14Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Nice cuttings. I would assume that you don't get more than $1.50 per stem in an LFS in store credit though. Not because they are not nice, but because there has to be a margin for the dealer. Maybe you get more if you have an established relationship with them.

Tank after trimming looks nice, but the picture comparison is unfair. It appears almost as if the Wisteria in the new shot is taller than in the old one. Eventually I figured out that you do not show the full height of the tanK (as there is no content up there).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 17:19Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Actually in that pic I don't think I trimmed really anything from the wisteria. The stargrass and aromatica exhausted me. Hey maybe I'll get some algae for doing too much.

$1.50 per stem in credit - I'll take it. I actually started the whole aromatica thing with one stem.

How much for creeping wisteria?

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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 17:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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How much for creeping wisteria?

A fortune

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 19:50Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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A fortune

Tetratech and I are going to be rich then. How much do I owe you again for your wipe?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 27-Apr-2006 20:30Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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(Bensaf chime in any time)


Could be light. It also looks quite thin, you've never mentioned trimming it and looking by the pics it also seems to grow quite slow for you. Should be a real quick grower.

On the other hand your Aromatica is growing way better then mine Your's is much fuller and redder, mine is very wimpy compared to yours. Actually my new growth is coming out very bright green and almost white, may need a bit more calcium. Even right at the surface it's still green not so much as a hint of red.

I'd rather have the healthy lush Aromatica then the Wallichii, so I wouldn't sweat it if I were you.


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Tetra,
The big piece of DW on the mid-right. Did you make it more vertical?

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Could be light. It also looks quite thin, you've never mentioned trimming it and looking by the pics it also seems to grow quite slow for you. Should be a real quick grower.

Actually I've replanted the tops at least 3 times. Does look alittle better each time. Light probably major factor, but plants do adjust within a certain range to conditions, don't they?

On the other hand your Aromatica is growing way better then mine Your's is much fuller and redder, mine is very wimpy compared to yours. Actually my new growth is coming out very bright green and almost white, may need a bit more calcium. Even right at the surface it's still green not so much as a hint of red.

That is strange. I think I have more light than you, but why is your Wallachi better. . Maybe traces in your water supply favors one over the other?

Wings,
Sometimes the center DW falls slightly so when I readjust it, it might be higher or lower - good catch!

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Here's the latest full tank shot taken around 7pm EST.
I did a big trim job and water change on last Thursday before my trip.




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Tetra,
Tank looks really super great. Love the trim job!

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As usual, very nice tetratech,

To me it seems almost as if you are moving towards a triangular shape now. High on the left and falling almost in a straight line down towards the right. Except for the low area all the way on the left.

And - we need more Riccia

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Thanks!

No, definitely not moving toward triangle. I guess I need to get the wisteria and/or stargrass alittle fuller and sloped on the left. Not sure anymore how much the wallachi fits in. In terms of aestitics it would look cleaner without it, but we'll see. Here's a pic of the wallachi about a month ago and now. I'm trying to see if it's getting any fuller. Here to get a perfect comparsion but look at each stem.



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tetratech,

Nice comparison shot

To me, it does not look any fuller, when looking at each stem seperately. Overall, the gap between leaves seems about the same, the leaf thickness and length seems the same as well (although the new picture makes them appear thinner, as it was taken from further away). It definately is redder though.

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You might be right, Definitely alittle reddier. It might be wishful thinking, but I think I see more leaves between the nodes, but I might be

Here's a pic of the main center. My wife still thinks the aromatica tops are flowers

As the aromatica grows it grows horizontially and when the stem is exposed this way new headers come out. It's still quite full after all that trimming I did last week as new heads pop up. All this was from one stem originally ordered.

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Beautiful tetratech

Let her believe they are flowers, there is nothing wrong with that. Whatever makes the lady happy and associates her with the hobby is a good thing.

Well, not to be conpetitive, but all my Star Grass is from 4 rotting stems that I "rescued" at the LFS about 10 months ago, then had it in my 29G for about 4 months with little to no success (either to dark where they were located and also the platies see it as food), then it moved to the 20G where it grew strong for a while, and then one tiny bush of maybe 3 stems moved to the big tank - and you know how it is now .

I guess if you can wait out the period of multiplication and if your tank conditions are right one would be able to do this with all kinds of plants (although one would have to wait forever to grow a farm of Anubias from only one ). The problem is the "meantime", keeping the tank sufficiently filled with "weeds" until the desired plants are strong enough in numbers.

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Let her believe they are flowers, there is nothing wrong with that. Whatever makes the lady happy and associates her with the hobby is a good thing.

I couldn't agree more

Well, not to be conpetitive, but all my Star Grass is from 4 rotting stems that I "rescued" at the LFS about 10 months ago, then had it in my 29G for about 4 months with little to no success (either to dark where they were located and also the platies see it as food), then it moved to the 20G where it grew strong for a while, and then one tiny bush of maybe 3 stems moved to the big tank - and you know how it is now .

I find it very satisfying when that happens. A tiny little piece becomes in both our cases the center piece of our tanks.

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Here's a current pic from last nite. Not much new too report. Shading on the foreground is definitely an issue as I believe it slows growth and opens door for alittle bba to make it's way onto the plants in the foreground.

I'm also considering finding branchy lighter pieces and replacing the bulking driftwood I have. These big pieces also make keeping the center full of lush plants.



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Well it appears I'm having a log discussion with myself. Maybe its run it's course and it's time to start my darkside log Anyhoo I did make a few changes.

1. Removed large DW piece and replaced with smaller branchy piece. I found the original DW was producing a fair amount of shading and I already notice the riccia is growing faster after a few days. I will probably try to find slender left and right DW pieces to keep it similiar.
I might even replace the center rock with a somewhat shorter piece to help with light somemore.

2. Placed wisteria right to the edge of the center rock on both left and right. It makes the tank looker fuller I think and hides some stems.

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EditedEdited by slickrb
That looks really good. Removing the big piece of driftwood seems to make the tank feel more open as well. I like how you almost seem to make the westeria a carpet!

Looks good.



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Tetra,

Welcome to my world. I swore I was just talking to myself most of the time.

I really like the new DW. It looks quite nice. Any close ups?

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tetra, buddy, how can we comment on perfection? I suggest you enter into a Zen-like state and appreciate the beauty of your creation... then start a new tank and new log of course.


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Thanks for all the comments. Yes the smaller DW definitely opens the tank more and creates more opportunity to layer the plants.

tetra, buddy, how can we comment on perfection? I suggest you enter into a Zen-like state and appreciate the beauty of your creation... then start a new tank and new log of course.

Sounds good Nowher, but if I go into a Zen-like state in front of my tank that's in my kitchen my wife will be laughing all the way to the attorney.

Wings here's a closer shot of the center.


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Thanks for the picture tetra! Its very nice. I would add in some more pieces. Would look really great!

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Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 03:51Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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An interesting thing happened when I tried to acclimate 5 new cardinals to my current school/shoal/herd/pack/pride (oh you get the point) of 18 cardinals.

I floated and blending in water over the course of 2 hours (too tired to do the drip method). After this time I netted two of the cardinals in the bag and put them in the tank. Within 30 seconds they were gasping at the surface. I immediately netted them back into the bag with the other three cardinals and within a few minutes they made a complete recovery.

The new cards were obviously reacting to the high co2 in the tank. It also didn't help that I was doing this right before lights out and the co2 was probably at it's highest.
All the other cardinals in the tank are fine and goes to show very clearly how fish can tolerate alot if changes come slowly over a prolonged period of time.

I ended up keeping the cardinals in the bag till 1 am (about 5 hours) while I did a 10% water change and waited for the ph to come up a bit. They were then acclimated and all are fine.

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That is pretty true. A drip method would have probably worked best. Glad everything worked out well.

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Post InfoPosted 10-May-2006 23:39Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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tetratech,

I am so sorry to have neglected your log for that last few days, but I have 2 excuses:

1) I was rather busy with the collection of random thoughts (aka equipment identification) for my new tank

2) For some odd reason, your log didn't show up in my Active Threads and I basically assumed there were no new entries. I wonder if this is a random site behavior or if there is a rule for active threads that I am not aware of.

Anyway, you will not have to talk to yourself, we are here for you

I like the new look, it sure makes the main group appear larger. I am a little worried that the new wood is too short and may become less visible when the Wisteria is growing taller.

Glad to hear that the new layout helps the Riccia as I am sure that even more of it can significantly enhance the foreground.

That's it for now,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 11-May-2006 10:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Well LF so nice of you to stop in. Can I get you something? Those are very legimitate excuses

Anyway thanks for the comments. Yeah the new dw is small and I am in search of some new pieces. It's amazing how much brighter my tank is. I might decide to even replace the center rock with something alittle shorter. If I don't like the way it looks I have plenty of pics to recreate the old look.

Excuse me as I go back to humming "Rainy days and Mondays"

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Those are very legimitate excuses
Glad you see it that way

Anyway, I was giving your latest Cardinal additions some more thought. I am rather surprised that they would be gasping at the surface. Yeah, your CO2 may be pretty high at that time of the day, but shouldn't your O2 be very high as well?

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EditedEdited by slickrb
Ingo,

I'm not sure it works this way. Chemicals always move across a barrier from High Concentration to low concentration. When fish breathe through there gills the blood contains a higher concentration of CO2 than the water and thus the CO2 diffuses out. As you increase the amount of CO2 in the water that difference become smaller up to the point that they are equal. Once this happens the fish can not expel the CO2 from the body and suffocate. The amount of O2 in the water has no effect on the CO2 leaving the fish. That is why there is a ceiling that we can't pass when injecting CO2.

Now nature is a wonderful thing and Tetras cardinal's had seemed to adjust to the higher CO2 concentration but the new ones would have been shocked by it.

Hope that helps.


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Maybe it wasn't a CO2 or an O2 thing. Maybe it was just a drastic PH swing for them.

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Post InfoPosted 11-May-2006 15:14Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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So I took out all of my big pieces of DW (they needed cleaning anyway) and put smaller pieces in there place. Granted these are too small and I'll probably look for longer branchier pieces (maybe I have to call the other Jeff), anyway this give an idea of what the tank looks like with less DW. It's much lighter and gives me more room to grow plants. Look you could actually see my rotala again. Some of the stems that got caught in the large DW shadow have already shown improvement after only a few days.



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Where is the super sized smiley with the shades? I need about 10 of them.

Awesome tetratech. I can't believe the difference in light you got from the change of driftwood. Does it look so much brighter in nature as well?

I guess very soon we will not be able to see your mid and background plants anymore as the Riccia will start to produce a bubble wand of air

It seems your Blyxa is rather green. This plant should also soon start to turn brownish/yellowish given the better light access.



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Thanks LF, I'll definitely be in the market for several tall, thin branchy pieces. The riccia already looks better, but not sure if there's still enough light to turn the Blyxa colors. BTW - The experiment with the Blyxa ended in my 12g. It did not grow with 2.2wpg, Excel and EI.



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I'll definitely be in the market for several tall, thin branchy pieces
Maybe you want to give "the other Jeff" a call .
It did not grow with 2.2wpg, Excel and EI
Uh, let us hope that around 2.5wpg and way more water (40G) will be enough for me to grow it.

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Tetra,
That last picture is really nice. I love the lighter look. It really shows your tank in a new light....

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Thanks Wings.

I'd like to see how it looks with some longer branchier pieces.

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I'll sneak in a couple of pics on Mother's Day

I feel like I've bascially created an attractive tank for my large and getting larger school of cardinals. The tank has nice plant mass, but also has alot of open space where I think the colors of the cardinals really show up nice.

I think I've captured 21 cards in this pic.

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Here's a full tank shot. I really like this shot for the colors in the plants. Now you could see the supporting role the rotala r. has taken on the mound without the bulkier DW in there. I will probably replace or add larger branchier pieces and might change the main rock to something shorter, but overall I'm pretty happy with this look.

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Tetra,

Really great shot of your tank. It truly shows off the colors of the tank and gives your tank full justice.

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but overall I'm pretty happy with this look

As you should

Besides having your tank being very pretty indeed, you also managed to get a show-like picture. All in focus, nice light, perfect.

In the last shot the rock in front of the main group actually looks nice. It creates a separation of back, left, and right, in my eyes a good thing.

The one scape entity that I still thinks needs work is the Riccia. It appears a little artificial and needs to grow in larger matts.

Very nice shot,

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As usual, good observations and thanks.
That was an interesting catch on the main rock, although it breaks the green and gives some definition to areas I never really noticed it as clearly as your observation.

The riccia could be alittle fuller, but I'm actually happy it's growing in the shadow of that rock. As you might have observed, the rock has a sort of overhang to it. With the top right overshadowing the lower right of the rock. If you look down to the right side (where that cardinal is) you could see the riccia is actually growing right against the rock under the overhang. Considering it's fairly light demanding when grown attached to the substrate, I'm pretty happy it's able to survive in that area.

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THE TANK LOOKS AMAZING I LOVE IT...IVE GOT SOME GREAT IDEAS FOR MY 20 GALLON LONG AQUARIUM...SOON TO BE OOUT UP..oh sry about the caps didnt realize they were on till now lol ment to ask because i havent really read over everything but are you using CO2 and how many watts do u have on the tank?
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bratyboy2,

Thanks for the comments. I have 192watts of light which gives me about 2.7 wpg.

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It's amazing how fast a tank can get out of hand. No LF I don't mean algae. You can put your tongue back in your mouth. .

I mean growth. This was my tank five days ago, Plants pretty much reached the top, but tank was looking good.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
And this was my tank earlier today. I am a little
This is the most I've let my tank go.
Look how dark it is under the main area.

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And here it is this evening after a major trim and I mean major. I took out alot of mass. Maybe I'll get algae (LFs tongue comes out again)

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I had some really nice pearling tonite.
Plants pearl everynite, but today was exceptional.




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Cardinal a la aromatica:







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tetratech,

Your plants sure show some excellent growth

That was a major trim, your center group went from B52 to Skin Head

I like the close-up "Cardinal a la aromatica", besides the plants and fish it shows your increasing talent for taking nice pictures

Is that main rock showing some red algae on it, or is that its natural coloration (being petrified wood) ?

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Thanks Ingo,

That was a major trim, your center group went from B52 to Skin Head



Sorry no red algae, natural colors of the petrified wood.

I'm surprised you didn't see the add'l riccia cover rock in the foreground.

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I'm surprised you didn't see the add'l riccia cover rock
Oh, now that you mention it, yeah - I see it . Now you need a few more and let them grow in just a little and they will appear to be one carpet.

In any case, are you using really a hair net to fix the Riccia on the rocks?

Ingo


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In any case, are you using really a hair net to fix the Riccia on the rocks?


Absolutely. I think it's the only way to go. Think about it. If you use thread much of the growing riccia will not be held down and it will eventually float up. With the hairnet it's all held down until you get so much growth that it breaks away.

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Oh, what the hell!

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Your Tank looks great. I have one question... Can you please do one final run up of the total cost and fish and plants? Or is that too much to ask?

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Oh, what the hell!


When have the Boesemani been added to the tank? Was that this weekend? How many overall did you get? I hope more than 2, right?

Otherwise, beautiful

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EditedEdited by tetratech
I hope more than 2, right?


They only had two, but I would like to add one more, although I think both of these might be the same sex and I'm thinking they are both boys. I'll need some of your rainbow expertise. If they are both boys, I'm probably better off leaving it at two being that I don't have the same for say 6 or 7.

Here's another shot:

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I'll need some of your rainbow expertise
Well, I don't have a load of expertise, but I would up the group no matter what. If my Neon Dwarfs are similar, then I think that the male/female ratio in these fish is not as important. I find that the dominant male is busy chasing all other males away from the females (I have currently 2f and 3m in the main tank, with 3 more males to follow from the QT soon). This leaves the females with much less stress than let's say with platies.

There is a clear visual difference in males and females in my Neons, and when you look at the web for this fish you usually only find males in pictures. What are the gender differences in your Rainbows? If they are easy to sex and you have only males then you could opt to get only males in addition (if you like to). Boys hanging out with boys tend to be much less agressive towards each other then when one girl come along (just like people).

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Thanks,

From what I've read the females are more a solid greyish color. If that's true these are differently male, because you could clearly see the half blue/half yellowish coloration.

I just got these yesterday afternoon, acclimated for 2.5 hours and put them in. I don't have the luxury of a QT but I have my friend Mr. UV to help. They started eating that evening and to my dislike started to aggressively chase the rummys around the tank. Only the rummys I haven't seen them chase anything else.

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and to my dislike started to aggressively chase the rummys around the tank
One more reason to up the group so they are busy chasing each other rather than a different species. Two have figured out quickly "who is the boss". But a group of 6 will have ongoing hierarchy "issues" as every day the group will be busy anew based on the short attention span to existing formations.

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One more reason to up the group so they are busy chasing each other rather than a different species




Well, I guess I'll observe them for a while, if they start to disrupt the delicate balance in my tank back they'll go to the LFS.

I'm getting a little concerned about fish load with these additions. I also added back in my black neons since the load was too high in the 12g. Since nothing dies it's almost impossible to by more fish without another tank or trading some in. The 12g has:

8 Gold Tetras
4 Black Neons (3 removed, 1 I can't %#$* catch.)
2 Kull loaches
3 Otos
3 Cherry shrimp
2 Amano shrimp

That was 22 fish/shrimp in a 12g. Now there are 19 and will be 18 when I catch the final %#$* black neon.

In the 72g:

23 Cardinals
8 otos
5 pencils
4 rummys
3 bolivan rams
2 bosemani rainbows
2 corys
Amano shrimp (don't know how many)

47 fish plus shrimp



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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
(3 removed, 1 I can't %#$* catch.)


Come on - it can't be that hard to get a fish in a tank that is pretty much open. I usually chase them with a stick into the open side of a tank and wait with the net there. Then I corner them and - voila.

Try catching Espei in a heavily planted tank, now that is a challenge. I think you may try again during the next water change at low tide.

About the stocking: Yeah, I see that the 12G could have been overstocked. But for the large tank, how about this:

23 Cardinals - great
8 otos - even better
5 pencils - return to LFS
4 rummys - return to LFS
3 bolivan rams - 3? where did the 3rd one come from?
2 bosemani rainbows - up the group to 6
2 corys - fine
Amano shrimp (don't know how many) - lovely
4 Black Neons - return to LFS

Just thinking,

Ingo

EDIT: tetratech - did you see This Thread I Created?


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Thanks LF,

That restocking list is pretty much my thinking. Typo on the 3rd ram.

This is the catch-22 with the rainbows and why I mentioned they might be returned. I already noticed them nipping on my riccia mounds of which will not be tolerated. Putting big fish in planted tanks especially ones that are omnivores in always difficult. Now one could say if I feed more this will not happen, but I'm unwilling to feed in excess as you know, because I feel stronger than ever that this is a major problem.

So who knows I might end up with 40 cardinals, 2 rams and a clean up crew.

BTW - I did just see your thread. I've gotten into a bad habit of hitting my shortcut on my desktop that goes right to active threads.

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I already noticed them nipping on my riccia mounds of which will not be tolerated.


Yeah, that is right, I totally forgot. You may remember that I once searched for an answer as to where all my duckweed went. Well, you may also remember that I figured that I thinned the group out during a water change and that the remaining ones could not spread faster than my fish ate them. And these fish would be the Pearls, and yes - the Rainbows. No doubt, if yours are even remotely similar then they will eat the Riccia, as it is a tasty treat

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They are both boys. Both are still very young. They will get much bigger and brighter. The yellow will eventually turn to an orange colored.

6 full grown ones may be too much for the tank. Rainbows are generally light on the bio load, they produce very little waste, but they will get big and are quite active. A male and female will spawn on a almost daily basis every early morning.

They do grow very slowly though. I've had a couple for years. After 2 years the male is still not full grown, but still bigger then the Pearl Gourami.

Male Boesmanii gave be quite feisty, they won't do any real harm but will chase smaller fish out of the way if moody. But if you try to add any small fish with a Boesmanii around he'll assume you are providing a tasty snack.

They don't touch plants as a rule but yers I've seen mine pull apart Riccia apart for fun when I had it, so much so I made a post about it, a good while back, in the Photo booth forum.

I like them but to be honest I wouldn't have them again unless I had a large all rainbow tank. That's were they look the best.


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Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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Bensaf,

I guess I'll decide after a few weeks if they are keepers. It was very against my fish purchasing instincts but I kinda wanted a centerpiece that would possibly make the cards school tigher, but that hasn't happened, in fact they cards seem scattered around now on the nonstop swimming antics of the rainbows.

BTW - I found your riccia salad thread but the pics were gone. Apparently your rams also ate the stuff, mine have never touched it.





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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
I kinda wanted a centerpiece that would possibly make the cards school tigher


Pearls seem to work for LF

EDIT: Dang! I'm sorry for taking post 1500, tetra


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EDIT: Dang! I'm sorry for taking post 1500, tetra


Don't worry, your worthy.

What I'm really annoyed about is this:

Bring back any memories Bensaf:

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It does.

Don't know why but they ripped the Riccia apart, quite deliberately. But I've had Riccia in the tank since, in smaller quantities but they didn't touch it. Either bored or the smaller clumps didn't attract them.

They are not the best choice for a centerpiece fish, way too active.

Deinately Gouramies would be a better bet, especially the Pearls.

None of them really work for getting smaller fish to school tighter. In the same way the fish figure the tank is a safe place and spread out, they soon figure that big scary fish that just arrived is in fact just a big wimp and stop schooling anyway.


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None of them really work for getting smaller fish to school tighter
Same experience here

The only time my 500 Espei school is if I scare them, either on purpose to see them peruse the tank (rarely) or during water changes when they flee from the vacuum.

Ingo


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The only time my 500 Espei school

I thought espei were great schoolers. They don't school like Harquelins?


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They don't school like Harquelins


Harleys aren't great schoolers either. They just sit there and move a little bit. Like most groups they school mainly when the gravel vac is there, or something new plops in the tank.

Lazy cypranids


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Well tetratech ,

Here is my spin on the schooling:

What is the purpose of schooling in fish? Most likely security, "save in numbers". Also, social aspects, like "who is the boss" , may play a role, but less importantly.

Now imagine a tank where about every 3 inches away from you there is another one of your kind, no matter where you go (and I assume this is similar for most species of schoolers). Creating a tight formation with enough others is a matter of a second, alas the feeling of security is given all the time. On the other hand, if there are only a few of you scattered throughout the tank then it would take quite a while until a safe group has formed. In this case, it would be better to "hang" closer to each other, aka schooling.

So my spin is: there is a point where a school is becoming so large (in a tank) that there is no need to school anymore.

Food for thoughts,

Ingo


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Harleys aren't great schoolers either.

Oh, I meant to shoalers.

But they don't scatter do they. I had harleys for about a year and they were always by each other's side.

Rummy's a good, but they looked washed out in my setup.



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LF,
I posted after you posted, anyway you might have a point.
I've always heard the more you add to a species the better they will school, but size of tank can have an impact I'd imagine.

It's funny one of the better LFS I have on the Island always puts little descriptions of the fish on a little sticker on the glass. Some examples:

Harquelin Rasboras - "One of the best schoolers"
Neon Tetra - "The fish that started it all, good schooler"
Cardinal Tetra "Beautiful fish, great schooler"

Dwarf Neon Rainbow - "New species"


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Dwarf Neon Rainbow - "New species"


Wow, I have a new species, I AM SO SPECIAL

Ingo


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Sad part is I almost fell for it as I pushed my nose up against the glass so see if they were different.

Very beautiful fish. I almost bought those instead of the Bosemani.

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Thought this was a nice shot. Tank almost looks like it has two mounds with the taller wisteria in the back.
I also like all the color (both fish and plants). I think its shows that the tank has depth and interest as well.



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My Dwarf Neon Rainbows are peaceful little fishies, never bother anybody but their own species (and that only with showing off), and their blue shine with the red finnage is very pretty. Maybe you should give them a try.

About your tank: Very nice, I like the slightly different angle you used to make this photo. I guess that is one of the advantages of a bowfront as the tank seems to change when you look into the curved glass from different angles.

Ingo


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Had some time this weekend, so I decided to see how the tank would look with a different main rock. As you could see in this pic, I replaced the rock with what is actually two rocks which created an opening in between them.



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EditedEdited by tetratech
Here's a full tank view:

This lower rock allows even more light to reach the foreground. I've also moved the Blyxa on the right side even more right to allow space to plant more riccia.



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Nice tetratech,

This rock makes the plants shine even more, although it is all rather green in there .

I would assume that you will have to watch out that this smaller rock will not be consumed by the plants. The Wisteria seems to thrive like mad.

Ingo


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tetra,

What's that fish in the upper right corner-ish region of the tank - it looks almost like a yo-yo loach...


LF, love the avatar


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EditedEdited by tetratech
This rock makes the plants shine even more, although it is all rather green in there

What's weird is last nite I took that pic and the rotala and aromatica looked really red, but for some reason the camera didn't capture it on my usual settings.

Nowher,


That's funny it does look like a yo-yo, but believe it or not it's not even a fish, it's actually just glare.

EDIT: LF I'm surprised you didn't see the twig in between the rocks.



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LF I'm surprised you didn't see the twig in between the rocks
I thought it was a dead fish

Honestly, I don't really extract the pictures that I look at and search for clues under the microscope on how the "masters" have managed to build stonehedge . What is this twig for? A coat hanger for the fish?



Ingo

Oh, and don't forget to read about my latest issues with the 40G breeder.


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A coat hanger for the fish

Oh you bad. I think it adds intersest to the tank. I'm looking for a better twigh though.

A dead fish in my tank. I don't think so.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
Although green, my Blyxa have definitely started to look healther and no more BBA since I removed some shading.



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But I didn't expect this:



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Hi tetratech

As always, your tank is beautiful. What is the plant called in the picture with the twig. Not the wisteria, the plant that is above rock / twig arrangement? Will it grow in low/medium light, or does it require high light?

thanks,
Robyn


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Thanks Robyn,

The plant right above the main rock is Limnophila aromatica. It was sold to me as Eusteralis stellata, but the popular opinion is that it's the aromatic. It is bordered by Stargrass on either side. This tank has 2.7wgp and it grows like a monster. It's actually more colorful than the last pic. (if you go back in the log you'll see more colorful shots).

I also have it growing in my 12g which has only 2.2wpg. It grows fine, but not as lush. Like alot of colorful plants, more light usually means more color.



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But I didn't expect this:


Is this:

a) A CO2 bubble stuck on a leaf?
b) Pearling?
c) Fish Exhaust?



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I believe it's "B".

fish exhaust

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I believe it's "B".

Sure it is, I was just pulling your strings . You dont think it was funny ? I guess I will have to try harder the next time around .

BTW, my Blyxa is the most static plant (besides the Isoetes Lacustris) that I have ever seen.I don't think they have grown at all in the almost 4 weeks since I added them to the tank.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
No it was funny, I guess I wasn't totally focusing. Here
s my belated laugh

Yes the Blyxa is really stagnet. As you can see mine are still very much alive, but haven't done much that's why I was amazed at the pearl. I'm starting to think it demands extremely high light to actually grow. Although in my tank with all the stems in a way it's welcome relief.

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Thanks for the belated laugh

I think you are very right about the extreme high light. The guy I bought the Blyxa from has it growing in his 125G. He has an overall lighting period of 9 or 10 hours and high lights for 6 of them. And he has the same light than I do, means 6 hours in over 3wpg on a 125G.

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And he has the same light than I do, means 6 hours in over 3wpg on a 125G

Don't even thing about it

Anyway one of my favorite things about summer. Shrimp on a stick.



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What do you think?



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You like or not?



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Nah

In the last picture it looks like you crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out

Doesn't do it for me at all,

Ingo


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In the last picture it looks like you crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out


Where do you come up with these? Anyway I might playaround with the position alittle bit.



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Hey tetratech, I think it looks nice & interesting, although I can also see Ingo's image of
a crushed a crab between the rocks and the legs are sticking out
. Do you worry that the fishies might hurt themselves on the sticks? It's probably just me, but I tend to worry if things are too pointy, but that's probably just old worry wart me. (I spent part of today sanding down the rough pointy edges of some rock caves I'm making out of broken slate).

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tetratech
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Thanks Robyn,

No I think the fish instinctively move around objects in the water. Who's to see what falls into a lake in nature. Branches fall off trees, etc.

Here's a full tank shot from this morning. Changed something?

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Changed Something? - hm, the things I notice as different are the specific postions of the crab legs and some Wisteria bush behind on the right-off-center back (but this may just be growth) and the rock that is in front of it.

Also, I notice that you are back to the trianguar layout, just like you were the last time before a major trim. Is that on purpose this time?

Compared to the last full tank shot it appears that the front of the tank is more shaded again.

Otherwise, just as beautiful as usual.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Changed Something? - hm, the things I notice as different are the specific postions of the crab legs

Easy there big fella and remember you have a new tank coming up for my to judge. Funny you call them crab legs because another crustanean (amano shrimp) really like them. He comes out of his new cave to look around.

Yes, there basically I moved the wallachi over to join the main group and put a rock into that area. Not the rock I want, but I don't have a closet of them to choose.
And yes, I did trim to get that full triangluar look. For some reasoon I think the tank looks best that way.
Also the tank sometimes looks darker because both sets of lights aren't on sometimes.

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Easy there big fella and remember you have a new tank coming up for my to judge.
Uh, I guess I forgot that . Sorry - Grand Master Tetratech, I promise to be more restrained in my judgement of your tank (or not).

Anyway, yeah - the triangular shape is nice, but you will have to watch out that the left sections doesn't lose interest. I mean, there is just Wisteria and once the eye is doen following an incline from right to left, why still look at a low field of even more Wisteria?

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Anyway, yeah - the triangular shape is nice, but you will have to watch out that the left sections doesn't lose interest. I mean, there is just Wisteria and once the eye is doen following an incline from right to left, why still look at a low field of even more Wisteria?


Maybe I misunderstood "Triangle" I"m not trying to make the high point the corner. I stil want the peak offcenter with the aromatica, so I should still say mound although it's not a soft rounder point, but just left to center full and center to right full but still declining.

Here's another closer pic of the main area. I love the lushness.

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Nice close-up tetratech,

I have noticed it before, but in this shot I was reminded of it - one cannot say that you have only a few fish either. What did you say? Around 40? And on average all of your fish are quite a bit bigger than mine (I would assume 1 card is like 2 espei).

About the triangle, let me see if I got that straight. You plan to keep the shape like my yellow lines. If so, the area I referred to as becoming "less interesting" is the one in the orange circle.

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Lines and Circle



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Let's see:

23 Cards
8 Otos
5 Pencils
4 Black Neons (moved from 12g)
4 Rummys
2 Rainbows
2 Rams

48 Fish Total
8 are otos, 5 pencils (tiny)


With the addition of the rainbows and the black neons I'm definitely pushing it. But remember light is the driver. I have less of it for algae to utilize. I also keep hitting on the feeding. When I lift rocks or plants there is almost no mess. That to me is an indicator of the waste level in the tank.

I could see from the pic why you see triangle, but with a few snips this is what my tank is really about:




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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Yeah,

That type of mound makes more sense, given the current left side.

Fish:

23 Cards (x 1.5 per Espei = 34 Espei)
8 Otos (have 6, plus 2 Espei)
5 Pencils (6 Espei)
4 Black Neons (moved from 12g) (8 Espei)
4 Rummys (6 Espei)
2 Rainbows (my 3 Rainbows)
2 Rams (my 2 Pearls)

So this means: all others than the Espei are covered, plus 50 Espei. Plus 53 extra gallons of water in my tank for the additional maybe 40 Espei. Basically, I have less fish than you do

I know that's not good math, but hey, makes me feel better

Ingo

EDIT: uh, forgot the Apsitos and the 3 additional Rainbows in a few weeks


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Yeah, I don't know if 1 card equals 1.5 espei in terms of waste. As I said it's also a matter of feeding, plus mass, plus light. Mabye because 90% of my substrate is covered with fert hungry wisteria it all get's sucked up quickly.

Anyway did some add'l trimming to get this:



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Your tank looks great. I have no idea how you cut to shape like you guys do. Do you trim while the tank is full? Otherwise, I assume the tall stems just bend over. Must make it even harder to shape the triangle when you cut from the bottom (although I usually get to do a couple of wisteria trims from the top, before I have to do that).

I like the low wisteria in the front & that's how I hope mine goes. Guess that means frequent removal & triming from the bottom?

Anyway, looking good.

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Ah, the mound

Yeah, I that looks nice, now simply go ahead and freeze-frame the tank

Two things though, one that I thought about but forgot to mention, the other one from this picture:

1) A assume you noticed that the branch on the right of the main group is pretty much consumed by the plants.

2) What happened to the rock that you just introduced us to? Was this picture taken from a different angle or why can I not see it anymore?

Ingo


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Robyn,

Thanks. A little tip on the wisteria. If you want it to stay low longer, when you trim and replant, replant the top on like a 45 degree angle. It will be more likely to grow roots along the stem and will anchor itself in the substrate and grow along it. That's pretty much how I spread mine. It's basically layer upon layer of horizontal growth.

LF,
The branches and rock at this point look O.K. but are pretty much marking the spot where longer branches and a bigger rock will go. I'll have to trim more to keep branches visible.

The pic is taken down low so you don't see the rock (Not tall enough). I think the other pic was taken higher up.

Here's a pic showing the edge of my mound with Rotala R, Rotala W and the rock that was hidden in previous pic.
The taller wisteria in the back behind the rock is not rooted below. It is growing from the right alway across the back alittle off the substrate.



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I wasn't going to post any more pics tonite, but I thought these were pretty good.

First since we've been talking otos:



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And a nice shot of one of my Bosemani Rainbows. These guys have colored up nicely already:



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Looking Good Tetra, Looking Good.

I always enjoy seeing your tank pictures.

Rick
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Wow tetratech,

Somehow I did not see this fish pictures until this morning. Did you secretly aquire a new camera? These are really cloe-close-ups . The Oto in particular is frightening large in the picture.

Nice shot on the rainbow as well, although I have to say that he doesn't look very happy to see you out there with the camera

Ingo


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Rick,
Thanks! Always nice to hear comments.

LF,
That was my first reaction, hugh. Do you know there really is a giant oto species? I saw them one time in a LFS. Not very attractive. No same camera, I've discovered the "super macro mode". The limitation of my current camera (Canon S2 IS) is film speed. Only goes up to 400.



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No, I have never heard about a giant Oto. I wonder if they just gave that fish some name based on similar features (or behaviors) but basically it is a completely different species.

Super Macro Mode - - up to 400, I guess that would be fast enough for pictures of your snails .

No really, nice shots, once again,

Ingo


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I can't confirm that it was an actual oto species, but it did have the same triangular head. Speaking of otos have you ever seen the zebra variety at your LFS. I did one time and wish I would have bought them.



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No, I have never seen them, cute.

I wonder if they exist in nature of if they are some form of special breed only available from fish farms.

Ingo


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Beautiful pictures - I have serious camera envy. I've never seen those striped otos - they are very nice.

Cheers
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Good Morning!

I meant to discuss this some time ago. What does it mean when you have no snails in your tank. I mean I've had snails that obviously came with plants, but they simply don't survive in my tank. I don't have any snail eaters either.




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Oh yes tetratech, you do have snail eaters

Your Rams eat the snails, and lots of fish will eat snail eggs. When I crush my snails in the 29 the Platies are all over them. When I had my Apsitos in the QT, in about 3 weeks I could not find any snails anymore. Now, that they are in the big tank, the QT has snails again (but not too many) and it appears that the 125 has much less.

I am also sure that water conditions, like low GH, have an influence on snails, less calcium means weaker shells and earlier demise. Also, if you had (which I think you don't) MTS, they would eat other small snails.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
I am also sure that water conditions, like low GH, have an influence on snails, less calcium means weaker shells and earlier demise

I wasn't even thinking of that, but your probably right. I know my water has a very low GH and I've differently seen white snail shells around.

I guess my rams could be eating somes snails in the jungle of wisteria, but I've never witnessed them doing so.

Here's a pic from this morning taken thru the side showing the plants "waking up"


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Holy (Fill in your option)

Now here is a totally surprising view of your tank. I would have never guessed that it is so narrow and how steep the incline to the background plants is.

Nice visual tetratech,

Ingo


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Holy (Fill in your option)


Holy "Wisteria Monster"

Anyway some updated pics. You'll notice two things. I've added more riccia to the right front and I've upped my po4 dosing while reducing no3 somewhat. Plants look more red I think?






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Full view from above:



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Full view from straight ahead:

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Looks so lovely!!!
What about some carpet plants

Great job tetratech!!!
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JQW,
I think thats the wisteria and riccia's job.

Tetra,
Tank looks really nice as normal.

I think things are looking more red too. Are you still adding higher iron levels? How much have you been messing with your levels?

I am working on trying to get some more color in my tank. I had a lot of green in the old set up but I want to mix it up a bit. Still not quite on a normal schedual after coming back yet...



55G Planted tank thread
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I also think that it looks more red than at an earlier stage.

So you say you up P and lower N. What do you think its current proportion would be?

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
JQW,
Thanks for the comments. As wings said my riccia and wisteria are pretty much my carpet.

Wings,
I have stopped dosing FE on a regular basis. I just wasn't seeing much out of it. I'm still dosing Flourish 3 times a week, but the red now is from higher P.

So you say you up P and lower N. What do you think its current proportion would be?


Well let's see. For the longest time I was dosing 10 to 1:

0.50 tsp no3
0.05 tsp po4

As my mass increased I went to:

0.75 tsp no3
0.08(approx.) tsp po4

Still a 10 to 1 ratio, now with my new dosing:

0.50 tsp no3
0.10 tsp po4

So I'm at 5 to 1, which is probably what alot of people do anyway, but I wasn't.

I'm deciding whether I should increase it to:

.75 tsp no3
.15 tsp po4

Either way I'm dong things sloooowly

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Either way I'm dong things sloooowly

Good man! Thanks for the info!

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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Thanks tetratech,

0.50 tsp no3 is what I intend to dose the new 40G, given that I dose 1.5tsp on the 125 and this one is a third of that size.

How much po4 I dose has yet to be seen, I currently dose 1/8tsp (what's that, like 0.125tsp) on the big tank. A third of that would be 1/24 of a tsp, or 0.0417tsp ( how much is a smidgeon again? )

Ingo


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Hi,
When you guys figure out how much to dose a 40G tank, then
I'll know about how much to dose my 30. Its a nightmare
without a set of scales from my chemistry class!
I'm thinking that measuring spoons just arn't gonna make
it! Guess I'll have to give them back to Susan...

Frank



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Well if we were in Europe we would all have scales bug most of use are not there or from there. On a side note, when I was in a college chem class they got a little funny about letting use bring the scales home. I asked my instructor about it and he said that they tend to get used for drugs a lot... Yay for being a small town fishing kind of guy.

BTW does LF have a thread running for his 40G?

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0.50 tsp no3
0.05 tsp po4


That was a very small amount of PO4.

I must admit I never sweat the dosing. Very un-scientific. Don't even use a measuring spoon. Just get a rough idea dip the spoon, toss in the tank. Sometimes more, sometimes less.

The tank looks good tetra, looks redder to me.

One little thing though, I'd love to see some pics with "proper" light.I find your photos very dark. Tends to make things look a bit lifeless, can't see the fish or any interaction going on


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One little thing though, I'd love to see some pics with "proper" light


Yes, people have said that. Probably because when I take most of my pics it's in the evening after the second bulb has gone out, so it's only lite by one 96watt bulb. Of course if I forced more light it would look more alive. Since you asked, here's a slightly brighter shot.



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What's the matter tetratech,

Did Bensaf's comment cause you a sleepless night?

Well, with loads of light or not, your tank is still beautiful .

One day I will have a nice looking tank as well.

Ingo


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Did Bensaf's comment cause you a sleepless night

Look who's talking! Oh Bensaf is just nervous because the USA is going to take the cup this year. I guess in order to please Bensaf I'll have to invest in $10,000 worth of professional photography equipment and have a fan blow ripples across the surface of my tank.



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because the USA is going to take the cup this year


Good joke, tetratech

See, that is the beauty of this hobby. Even if your tank looks good, there is always at least one person who has something to nag about . This is what drives us, what makes us go the extra mile (although I personally have quite a few miles to go).

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Good joke, tetratech!
I'm not laughing

Well Bensaf has just given me a reason to post a whole bevy of new pics.

I'm off to Home Depot to buy a fan

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Your pictures are always welcome, tetratech.

And, if I may suggest, don't get a fan, get a wave maker .

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 10-Jun-2006 14:23Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks littlefish,

Here's some more "lively brighter" pics to please "My Master" and others who might find them interesting:



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Post InfoPosted 12-Jun-2006 03:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Closeup shot of the Main Area and Eco Beach:

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tetratech
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Some of the main inhabitants:



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tetratech
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Another shot:



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tetratech
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This pic was taken around 8pm on Sunday. I haven't done a water change since last Sunday. I'll have to do my weekly wc tomorrow.



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Post InfoPosted 12-Jun-2006 03:13Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Oh Bensaf is just nervous because the USA is going to take the cup this year.


The day USA wins a World Cup I'll eat my plants. There's more chance of Paris Hilton winning a Nobel Prize for science Even though your guys had a really successful qualifying campaign against such sporting superpowers as Jamaica and Costa Rica

Anyway I wasn't being critical of the tank I justed wanted some brighter pics
And the tank does look much better in the brighter photos - there's fish and life going on. Really nice job


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 12-Jun-2006 03:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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The day USA wins a World Cup I'll eat my plants
Well, now I really would like the US to win, but Bensaf will have to send us pictures of moss stuck between his teeth then .

Tetratech, looking very nice, bright, full, colorful, and any other compliment that I just cannot come up with right now

I guess your camera is a tad to slow to get a clear shot of the zooming Cardinals, you somehow will have to try to convince them to stay still for a monent

Ingo


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tetratech
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Well, now I really would like the US to win, but Bensaf will have to send us pictures of moss stuck between his teeth then

I think Bensaf is really worried because he knows some of his lush plants are quite edible so it's not much of a bet.

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Post InfoPosted 12-Jun-2006 15:56Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Czech Republic 3 - USA 0

so it's not much of a bet.


Well you got that darn right

Guess I won't have to dig up recipes for a Ludwigia salad with Riccia on the side for a while


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
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tetratech
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Czech Republic 3 - USA 0


Were just getting warmed up, we'll take the Italians and be on our way.

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Post InfoPosted 13-Jun-2006 04:48Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Were just getting warmed up
- They better get warmed up quickly, otherwise they are all hot when it is time to pack the suitcases and to go home .

On the other hand - Bensaf, how did the Irish do so far?

BTW, if I had to put money on a winner, it would be Brazil, as much as I would like the Germans to win.

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Post InfoPosted 13-Jun-2006 10:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Beautiful fish & plant pics Tetratech.

BTW, you wouldn't believe the fuss being made here because Australia beat Japan in their first game - but I guess the rest of you would probably say - "Oh, I didn't know Australia sent a team?" Yep, I think we qualified last (or just about) & from the fuss here, you'd think we'd won the series, not a game.

Cheers
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LITTLE_FISH
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"Oh, I didn't know Australia sent a team?"

Robyn,

You underestimate the importance of soccer in the world. Of course I know you have a team there and most certainly did I know that you won, with 3 goals in the last 5 minutes. That is a reason to celebrate, give your fishies some special treats

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Post InfoPosted 13-Jun-2006 13:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
Oh, you wouldn't believe the big deal it is here. Apparently, we haven't even qualified since sometime back in 70's. When we qualified, you'd have thought that we'd won the whole cup then & there. One of our newspapers today had a headline saying something along the lines of "Australia's greatest sporting moment" or some such comment. So, everyone here is very excited.

So yes, my fishies will have to get a special treat. But this fishy here, is trying real hard qualify next time himself. http://assets.shns.com/SH06A250TRICKFISH.jpg
I guess this is just trick photography.

Cheers
TW
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tetratech
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Robyn that is a really great pic!

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Post InfoPosted 13-Jun-2006 17:43Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Isn't photoshop great!

Tetra,
How big are you rainbows? I wish I could get a picture of mine for you. They are really great fish. Way too fast though! I tend to get wet when its feeding time.

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Post InfoPosted 13-Jun-2006 23:38Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Wings,

My rainbows are about 2.5 inches. You could get an idea in this pic when comparing to the rummynoses? These guys seemed to have settled in nicely and I like them. They are voracious eaters as you know so I basically have to spoon feed my rams (net method as LF knows)



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tetratech
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Thought this was a nice colorful pic showing alot of fish activity:



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Post InfoPosted 14-Jun-2006 02:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Oh and this is the wisteria salad that Bensaf is going to eat when the USA wins the cup:

It really does look pretty appetizing, don't you think?





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Post InfoPosted 14-Jun-2006 02:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Oh and this is the wisteria salad that Bensaf is going to eat when the USA wins the cup:


It does look rather tasty, but I doubt I'll get to sample it. All kidding aside , of the games I've seen The US have been the weakest team I've seen so far. I thought that honor would go to Trinidad or Togo. The USA team were shockingly bad against the Czechs. One thing's for sure they can only improve from here on out.

USa has a deceptively high rating in the FIFA rankings, I think they are top 10 team, but if analysed and you look at the opponents they have played it's a very deceptive record.They really haven't come up against any opponents of quality, especially in their qualifying rounds.

Ingo,
I know I asked for that, we ain't there this year sadly
We got screwed over by the worlds dumbest referee and an Israeli that fell to the ground screaming like he'd been shot by a Hezbollah everytime somebody looked crooked at him, cheating git. A piece of Thierry Henry genius was our final undoing after getting the better of France for 2 games. Shame we have a pretty useful team, even better then our last World Cup team (who if you remember gave Germany a pretty rough time ).

We'll be back.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 14-Jun-2006 03:52Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
They are voracious eaters
Yeah, feeding my rather hesitant Apistos is pretty hard with rainbows in the way. Yesterday, one of them in the QT made such a splash that all food in the container got wet.

And yes, your Wisteria salad does look very appetizing, if it wouldn't be for that one line of poop.

Bensaf - Irland is my favorite underdog in Europe. Whenever the Germans are already out I cheer for Irland. Today is another Germany game, we will see how that goes. I would say 3-1 Germany.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 14-Jun-2006 10:17Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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And yes, your Wisteria salad does look very appetizing, if it wouldn't be for that one line of poop.

You amaze me, but the poop is seasoning.



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Post InfoPosted 14-Jun-2006 14:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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yuk




Ingo



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Post InfoPosted 14-Jun-2006 14:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well ya see, I was in the store and yada, yada, yada.....I ended up with two blue rams. I guess it's my turn to try.

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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 01:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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EditedEdited by Wingsdlc
Nice fish Tetra,

I hope you have better luck than LF with them. They seem to be a little easier to sex than LF's.

It also seems that you have been buying a lot of new stuff at random latly. Must be all that
yada, yada, yada.....
stuff.

More fishing time for me. I am out....

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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 01:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Very nice tetratech

With all my heart do I wish you way more luck than I had so far. If you fail then it for sure cannot be bad tank conditions as yours is very settled.

And I see you got a pair there

Ingo


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tetratech
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Thanks guys, I caught these myself. We'll see how they do. So far I see no aggression from the bolivian rams that have been in the tank a very long time.

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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 01:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Couple more shots:



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tetratech
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One more:



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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 02:18Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
TW
 
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Very nice fish. Good luck with them.

Cheers
TW
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LITTLE_FISH
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Very nice tetratech,

Me wonders now how your opinion on Bolivians will change (in regards of beauty) .

In a related topic, I was wondering what is known about interbreeding between Bolivians and Germans (Rams, I mean).

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 13:26Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Me wonders now how your opinion on Bolivians will change (in regards of beauty)

Remember I've had blue rams before, one for as long as 6 to 7 months. Without a doubt the colors are more vibrant overall, although the bolivians have those radiant red trim to the tale and they do color up nicely before breeding. I don't think bolivians and blues will mate.

Oh well, another riccia moocher:

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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 18:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Just eatting a snail or two I am sure. Even if it was eatting the vegies you have plenty of it.

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Post InfoPosted 16-Jun-2006 18:37Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Yeah,

I am with Wings. Do you actually see strips of Riccia hanging out of their mouths? Very often, I find that snails love to hang out in the shrubs, like mosses etc. Your Ram may have well found one of them in there and decided that she needs some meat in her diet

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Post InfoPosted 17-Jun-2006 11:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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The tank is still looking great tetratech. Nice blue rams, we just got a nice batch of those in our store.

Hows the SW tank coming along?



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Post InfoPosted 17-Jun-2006 16:18Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Matty, I'll keep my fingers crossed with the rams.
I'm definitely doing the sw tank. Just got really busy with work, etc. Hoping to have it up within a few weeks.



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Post InfoPosted 17-Jun-2006 16:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I'm definitely doing the sw tank
Well, I hope that my rather limited input in the upcoming SW thread will not be interpreted as a lack of interest, but I only can say "how pretty" so often.

That's what happened to me with Matty's thread, all I can comment on are the nice pictures (and algae ).

Good luck tetratech,

Ingo




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Post InfoPosted 18-Jun-2006 12:25Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well, I hope that my rather limited input in the upcoming SW thread will not be interpreted as a lack of interest, but I only can say "how pretty" so often.


Understood LF!

Well Day 3 with the ram pair and all is well. Yes that's LF that's GSA on the glass and you could stop laughing. I've been lazy cleaning it.




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Post InfoPosted 18-Jun-2006 21:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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I wasn't laughing

Actually, I was just about to write a response yesterday when out router died .

I am glad to hear that the Rams are still doing fine, and I hope it will stay that way.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2006 13:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Well if these rams do O.K. I have a theory, but I'll wait to see how they do.

BTW - USA was robbed the other day against Italy by some psyco ref. Now it will take a miracle to advance

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Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2006 14:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Now it will take a miracle to advance
It always did

Are you aware that the US has not yet even shot a goal?

Tank related: I cannot wait to hear the theory. If it isn't all too wild then I may try it out.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Are you aware that the US has not yet even shot a goal?

We did score, but the psycho ref took it away. It's hard to compete when soccer is a 5th sport here and elsewhere it's religion. I should really move to S.America where the soccer is great and the fish aren't bad either.

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Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2006 16:00Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Very pretty rams tetra! Great pics too. Hope they do well for ya.

And I second LFs post about commenting on your soon-to-be SW tank. I'll also be adding "oo, that looks great!" comments, along with the occasional remark about how SW folks just cultivate flouresent fungus and blobs etc., not as nice as plant tanks etc. You get the drift...

And by the way:

when soccer is a 5th sport here
\

Football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR, golf, hockey, Indy car - soccer doesn't get a sniff in the states professionally at least. Popular in schools and such but not at a main level. I know what you mean.


Back in the saddle!
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tetratech
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Football, baseball, basketball, NASCAR, golf, hockey, Indy car - soccer doesn't get a sniff in the states professionally at least. Popular in schools and such but not at a main level. I know what you mean.


So are you saying soccer is the 7th sport, right in front of shuffleboard

Anyway things for popping in and the comments. Enjoying the rams so far and I'm thrilled that there is absolutely no aggression with the bolivans (until they breed anyway) I guess your living up to your name. How bout a pic once in a while. Cats got your camera.



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Post InfoPosted 19-Jun-2006 17:27Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Couple of updates:

- Trimmed everything and cut every stem of the aromatica and removed bottoms and replanted tops.
- Added a few more riccia covered stones.
- Changed dw pieces slightly by either cutting some and moving around other ones.

I am really amazed by how little gets stirred up when I remove plants and rocks. As I mentioned I removed every stem of the aromatica and there were some pretty big root systems and very little came out of the eco. I think this is part of the reason I don't have algae issues but it's also a reason why many of my fish are eating the riccia - they're switching to salad since the beef isn't available. And yes I saw the rams sucking it down. There are no snails in my 72g.

Here's a few tank view from today:



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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 01:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here's a compare shot from 9 days ago and today after the trim. You could see the changes I spoke of:



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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 01:36Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I haven't really fiqured out what makes the rotala and other plants look red. I've pretty much stopped dosing Iron and I've been dosing my po4, but sometimes it doesn't look that red. The last week or so it has though. Maybe there's a longer delay than I thought in getting the red color to show. Here's a good shot of the rotala currently:



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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 01:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
Well whatever you are doing the Rotala looks much healthier then ever before.

Ok, that was my token effort at staying on topic.

Now for the important stuff !

It's hard to compete when soccer is a 5th sport here and elsewhere it's religion. I should really move to S.America where the soccer is great and the fish aren't bad either.

It sounds like you are that rarity - an American whounderstands and appreciates football ( I hate calling it soccer, it's football, don't you guys insist on calling a game, where the ball is in the hands and thrown far more often then it's kicked, football).

The reason why it's a poor 5th in the US and a religion everywhere else probably says a lot about American attitudes to sport and the American psyche in general.

Americans have a rather strange attitude to sport. There seems to an obsession with winning and statistics. For a start tied games seem to be an abhoration to Americans
There always has to a winner and winning seems to be everything rather then the actual joy of playing and the manner in which a game was played.
High scores seem to be a requirement for US sports too. A lot of Americans don't seem able to get their head around a 1-0 scoreline.baseball would be the possible exception here.
Never understood why Basketball is so popular there. Any game that has a losing score of 80 or 90 points is a bit ridiculous to me ( a bit like any "sport" where you get points for artistic interpretation is not really a sport in my book). To me it's just a game where you run down one end throw the ball at the net , score or miss , now it's your turn to run to the other end and you throw, score or miss ! It always struck me as a game you didn't so much win as whoever missed the least won. The court is the size of a footbal penalty area yet these athletes have to rest every 10 mins!? Good god it's not like the game is even played at any kind of real pace !
The obsession with statistics is another thing I don't get. We don't bother much with statistics in football, except for someones scoring record. Statistics are meaningless when you try to apply to a sweet defense cutting pass, how can you match a statistic to the movement and ball control of a Platini, a Maradonna, a Cruyff ?
I wonder if these scores and obsessions with stats are a reflection of the fast food society, the quick fix, the low attention span, the need for bigger more powerful things then the other guy?
All of this I think will always keep football way down the pecking order in the US. The game just doesn't fit with the American way. Maybe if the US started winning soccer tournaments that would change. There has to be a reason why a baseball played between a bunch of US cities and a couple of Canadian one is called the World Series ?!
But it's Catch 22 - it'll never gain poularity til you start winning but you'll never win until it's given more attention.

But it's ok the rest of liking having at least one thing we can do better then America

BTW, I should add, in these senstitive times, none of this should be considered American knocking. It's just observation on the differences. I like and respect Americans, at their best they have a bravery and compassion that is unmatched. Shame they can't play football for crap


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 04:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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It's hard to compete when soccer is a 5th sport here and elsewhere it's religion
It's the same in Australia. Really, only the little kids play soccer here - the big boys play AFL & NRL which are both football games where the ball is in the hand most of the time. From what I gather, our Aussie socceroos have to play for overseas teams for their professional soccer career. Other than for the world cup, soccer can't capture the crowd here. Our team has to be called home every now then to form the socceroos, when they're called to play for Australia. My son played soccer though as a youngster & he still prefers it to NRL.

Cheers
TW
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Well tetratech,

I think your tank looks very nicely, even after having received a major trim. I like the addition of the new Riccia, it makes the center part look less artificial and more like naturally grown.

You say you actually cut the driftwood? Just some clipping or big chunks?

On to soccer:

While Bensaf has a few points that I agree with, I have a few opinions on popularity and such myself:

- Bluntly, soccer is not as popular than other sports because it doesn't have any breaks to show commericals. If the Media in a TV obsessed nation would pick it up big time then it could catapult the sport way up that list.

- I agree on most other points though.

- The World Series, as much as I know, has a different meaning to the word "World" as I think to remember that this was some dude's name. But I am sure the Americans among us can clarify.

That's it for now, have to get ready to chear for a team that actually shoots goals

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 13:21Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Bensaf
Well thanks for the Rotala comments

I guess I know how to push your buttons to get you back in my thread.
Anyway at the risk of sounding unpatriotic I do agree with most of your comments. My son play's travel soccer and his coaches always applaud the goal scorer but I see very little attention given to the kid that setup the drive and the kid that executed the sweetest of passes to make it happen.

We can get into a whole debate on what's a "sport" and what's an "activity" but we would be way off topic for a long time. They are moving toward a true "World Series" in baseball now. I find it very difficult to watch baseball because of the soft cap that allows teams like the Yankees to pretty much get anyone they want. So it's not an even close to an even playing field.

I do disagree with you on basketball. Although I am not a hugh basketball fan it is quite a workout. Maybe because it's indoors or because you have 5 big guys trying to get free in a very small space so they have to always be moving.

I think you have to give the Americans some credit playing with 9 players against Italy's 10 and earning a tie. By the way the Italians played very dirty throwing elbows, etc.

It's funny cause I've often mentioned to people your comments about the "World" Series and American Football being referred to as Football. Compared to baseball it's football. We really are a cocky bunch.

LF,
Thanks for the comments. The riccia is really fun to work with. I was able to split some of my thicker pieces into thinner ones.

Don't forget soccer was popular here in the days of Pele when they were getting 60,000 people in the stadium. I took my kid to a Metrostar game (now Red Bulls )last year and there were maybe 7,000. We got great seats though and the kids went on the field on got to meet Freddie.

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baseball finally a sport I can talk about. The World Series being named after someone called world is an urban legend. The first Modern world series was 1903. Before that there were varying leagues and one of them had a "Series for the Champion of the United States". The newspapers back then I guess weren't much different than they are today and exaggerated a bit by calling it the World's Series and it stuck.

Rick
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Post InfoPosted 20-Jun-2006 15:11Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
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Day 5 with the Rams and they seem to be doing fine. Here's the female on top of her favorite grazing area.



Attached Image:


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 01:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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You can't see this from the full tank views, but my main rock area is actually two rocks creating a cave:



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Hey, where did the crushed crab go ?

No seriously, nice pictures and close-ups tetratech. I am still keeping my fingers crossed for your Rams and I only will relax them after 2 weeks have passed (that was how long my first batch a few months back survived).

Say, did you put on your famous snorkle and mask and dive in there to get this close to the rock or do you have a new macro lense?

Rick, thanks for explaing that World Series thing

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tetratech
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Say, did you put on your famous snorkle and mask and dive in there to get this close to the rock or do you have a new macro lense


Remember super-macro mode. Anyway the crushed crab has been retired. I didn't love it and I thing it distracted from the riccia foreground.

Your last ram pair lasted 2 weeks?


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 01:58Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Well after 60 something pages I thought it would be safe to throw something non planted tank related into the mix

Before we move off soccer - congrats to LF. Great performance by Germany yesterday, they were masterful in the first half, great movement and passing, 3 good goals, they pretty much dismantled Equador.

Well America is fascinating for it's contradictions. It gets an unfair rap. We Europeans tend to be a bit snotty about the 'ol US especially when it comes to culture. While, like all stereotypes, there is a grain of truth in it, it's generally unfair and and snobbish.
Without a doubt the US has produced the finest examples of almost every art form in modern history - along with some of the greatest dross ! The finest movies, literature, music and TV has come from America , hands down as good as European and in some areas far superior to anything produced in Europe. And with it came a pile of rubbish.

Hemingway, Faulkner, Wolfe, Mailer et al produced the most powerful and relevant literature ever known....and then there was Dan Brown.
In music you gave us Rock and Roll, Jazz, The Blues.........Britney Spears , the Backstreet Boys !
John Huston, Scorsese, John Ford , Orson Welles, Spielberg, every darn great movie, and not just the great entertaining ones, the stylized intelligent ones too, all came from the US.Somebody name one European movie that would make an all time top ten list (apart from maybe Lawrence of Arabia - but heck that what about an Irish guy ) and along with it some of the worst movies ever made too !
80% of American TV shows are sludge (but 80% of ALL TV shows are sludge) but when it's good it's pretty much the best - The Sopranos,24, Lost,The West Wing, Seinfeld , Cheers to name a few recent examples.

But it's these contradictions that make the place fascinating. MAybe it's something to do with the huge impact of the Irish on Americas history and heritage. The Irish have their own strange set of contradictions.

All art is a reflection of the human spirit and any society that can consistently produce the finest in so many art forms must be doing something right. But that's often overlooked these days - shamefully.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 05:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by LITTLE_FISH
Your last ram pair lasted 2 weeks?
No - the pair that I had before the last one did. It was around the time when I started the 125G that I saw an obvious pair in the LFS and I knew I had to have them. I placed them in my 29G, which at that time was around 6 months old. After about 2 weeks we went away for 2 days and when I came back one was dead and the other minutes away from the same fate . There was no sign of illness before we left.

Bensaf, thanks for the congratulations, I sure played very hard . Now it is on to ply against Sweden, we will see if the Germans can keep up this "unusual" offensive drive, it would be nice.

Nice philosophial interlude there, bensaf . Arts as an indicator for a culture is sure important.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 10:31Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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When talking about sports in the US, hockey(even thought it came from Canada) never got brought up. It is so much like soccer in the aspect of scoring. I love how it is a fast game and there are not big breaks ever 3 seconds for who knows what.

On to the tank....
LF,
Whats with the crab thing?

Tetra,
Great pictures as normal! I so can't wait until I get a camera!



55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 14:08Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Wings,
Yes you are right about the Hockey, although hockey is like a 4th sport here.

Don't know what camera your looking for, but my camera is down to like $300 from $499 when I bought it. Canon S2 IS.

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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 14:54Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Thinking a Canon Rebel right now. I am going to make the wife pick it out. She used to be a photo major. $300 isn't too bad to pay either. I will have to have her look into it.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 14:58Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Well, my worthless two pence:

I don't enjoy watching soccer all that much. I like the World cup because it's competition, a tournament and that's entertaining in itself.

What Bensaf said earlier about scoring drawing attention is true, and yes that in my mind is the biggest reason it's not huge in the States. That and lack of tackling And the inability (from lack of stats etc.) to make it a large sport to gamble on.

But that also rings true for nearly every major sport in the US. The true fans and true lovers of the sport will always appreciate the little things. There are a million things I love about baseball, things that would come into play regardless of scoring. Same in football - there's blocking techniques, footwork, precision of routes, line play - all things that are an essential part of the game that aren't shown on ESPN, things that take place away from the QB and wide receivers, but that are vital to their success. Fans of hockey appreciate precise passing and stellar goalie play as much as a soccer fan does.

The difference is I think in the US there's more than just sports, there's sport culture, and that's an entirely different animal. It's led by gambling of course, and that's probably one of the top 3 reasons why football has become so big - games take place once a week, 16 times per year. Tons of stats to allow you to make predictions. Then there's ESPN and the many ESPN channels, magazines etc all meant to attract the casual fan to come to a game and spend money. That's where soccer (and hockey, truth be told) fall out of favor with US fans. We as true fans of our favorite sports can appreciate effort and skill, especially if you've ever played these sports. Effort doesn't make the highlight reels. Scoring does.

So in the end it ties back to what Bensaf also said, about a lot of great cultural things coming out of the states and a lot of crud - sport as a commodity, a piece of media to be inflated and sold is one of those cruddy things. It's lead to holdouts, new contract demands etc. by the players, PED use and the overall degradation of the integrity of the games.

On a related note, do soccer players hold out for better contracts? Skip practice? Just curious.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 17:29Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
O.K. this is the planted tank forum isn't it

Maybe somehow this does relate to planted tanks

Here is my poor attempt at a correlation!
Americans like the big goal, big name, they don't appreciate all the little things that go into getting that goal. Maybe this is why they don't appreciate planted tanks like they do in Asia and elsewhere. They think more of the centerpiece fish than the scape. The fish come first for most in the U.S. not the delicate relationships that all the "players" in a planted tank do. In the states almost all professional tanks installed are Saltwater. The balance are usuallly african cichlids. Reason being Americans are attracted to the big fish, colorful and not the whole environment that is created. From the rocks,to the driftwood, to the foreground, mid and background plants it's all about working together to form something natural and beautiful and eventually to "score" with a beautiful tank.




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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 17:59Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Nice move on getting this thread back on track, tetratech

And I think your version of why planted tanks are not all that popular in the US (yet) makes a lot of sense. This, coupled with the 5,000 overtime hours at work every month to maintain the number one position and as such a lack of free time to mess with a planted tank, might be the reason.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 19:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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.........Britney Spears , the Backstreet Boys !


In the U.S, they and their pop brethren are pretty much a joke to anyone under 13.

Hmph, I wish the "tweens" of America would obsess over better music

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Post InfoPosted 21-Jun-2006 20:33Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I always though attitudes to planted tanks in the US are a bit similar to their attitude to cars. Bigger, faster, guzzle more fuel, have a bigger engine under the hood etc.

Even the stats obsession creeps in - KH, Ph, No3 numbers etc are always reeled off.

Everyone one wants the flashy over the top red plants.

Growth rates are compared like the 0-60mph rate of an auto.

Asian attitudes are much simpler. Everything is kept to a minimum. Plants are very carefully chosen, ease of use and maintenance is a higher priority then appearance. The lack of flashy plant species is overcome by clever design and use of hardscape. Generally the overall look is greater then the sum of the parts. Fish are secondary and very small species are used.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2006 04:04Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I agree Bensaf. I think the West tends to be more interested in the ends than in the steps taken to acheive them.

I think in America, we have forgotten how beautiful subtlety is.

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I think in America, we have forgotten how beautiful subtlety is.


Thats why in all my tanks there are live plants and I make it a point to go out as far away from town I can get at least once a week.

55G Planted tank thread
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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2006 13:53Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Even the stats obsession creeps in - KH, Ph, No3 numbers etc are always reeled off.

Not Guilty

Everyone one wants the flashy over the top red plants.
Guilty if you count my stellaromatica a la hudson

Growth rates are compared like the 0-60mph rate of an auto.

Not Guility, but I know someone who is

Asian attitudes are much simpler. Everything is kept to a minimum. Plants are very carefully chosen, ease of use and maintenance is a higher priority then appearance. The lack of flashy plant species is overcome by clever design and use of hardscape. Generally the overall look is greater then the sum of the parts. Fish are secondary and very small species are used.
Somewhat Guilty

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but I know someone who is
I don't think you mean me though, or do you? Just because I am once in a while inclined to rave about my Star Grass growth doesn't mean that I am obsessed with it .

Anyway, how did we get into this philosophical discussion again?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2006 15:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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Anyway, how did we get into this philosophical discussion again?


bensaf started it - as usual


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2006 16:35Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Guys,
Lets keep the "extra stuff" in the Recovery Room where
it belongs...
Thanks,
Frank


-->>> The Confidence of Amateurs, is the Envy of Professionals <<<--
Post InfoPosted 22-Jun-2006 20:44Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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Lets keep the "extra stuff" in the Recovery Room where
it belongs...


Frank, why?

Does the "extra stuff" take up less space in the recovery room then here?

This thread , log, whatever you want to call it has been going on for 60 some pages, to the benefit and enjoyment of a lot of members.It's basically a running dialogue between a few plant geeks, sometimes we accidently come up with somwthing that may actually be helpful Bound to go off on a tangent from time to time, the nature of the beast.

I would have thought better to keep it within the confines of here , then cluttering up recovery room with new threads.

I like the "stream of conciousness" format these logs have developed into.




Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 23-Jun-2006 04:06Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Hi Guys,
There has been an "official" complaint and after reading
several posts that strayed from the stated purpose of the
forum, I thought I'd just nudge things a bit back to center
before we all strayed too far.

Essentially I agree Ben, the chatting back and forth
format between us all has been informative and friendly
and good for us all.

As I said Ben, "just a nudge."

Obviously, your plant eating worries are over for the year.

Frank


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Post InfoPosted 23-Jun-2006 07:09Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by katieb
Tetra,

Love the Main Rock/cave, and the ram

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Post InfoPosted 23-Jun-2006 20:40Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
As I said Ben, "just a nudge."


I hear you. Sad that somebody somewhere has nothing else to worry about but to complain about this. But that too is the nature of the beast I guess.

I 'll try to keep my meanderings to a minimum, but heck I'm Irish - you might as well ask me to try to stop breathing

Never had any real worries about having too eat my plants

Just to keep on topic - tank looking good tetra . Do you think that maybe the spot where the Wallichi is, is looking a little "weak" compared to the rest of the tank ? Maybe something a little stronger but at the same time not too strong to throw the look off balance.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 24-Jun-2006 03:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I don't even want to talk about "complaints" as it would conclude in a rant and that would not be fair either.

So, back to topic and bensaf's recent input:

I agree, the Wallichi group appears to be too fragile compared to all the other full plants. But instead of replacing the group with a stronger plant, how about adding more Wallichi?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 24-Jun-2006 13:53Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Yeah, you guys have a point about the wallachi. It's hard to put another good plant bunch there because it extends my mound so far to the right that it's really not a mound anymore. I would have to remove some wisteria and add it or something else more to the center of the scape, but that would end my wisteria jungle look.

On a fish note, the rams are still doing fine (Day 12). Interesting discussion in another thread http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/29759.1.htm?0.8601972#
about german rams vs blue rams. I posted a pic of my rams in that thread since their were some aquarists that seemed knowledgeable and one stated that my rams aren't even blue or german blue rams but a "Normal Ram" whatever that means.
Here's a current pic:



Attached Image:


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Post InfoPosted 27-Jun-2006 20:55Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Yeah,

I would like to know what Wfish means with his "blue" comment

But I have a question for you: why does the pink on the female belly look to be such a pure red? Did you mess with the camera settings or something?

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Jun-2006 21:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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But I have a question for you: why does the pink on the female belly look to be such a pure red

I didn't change any settings. If you look at the cardinals they are deep red and the ram is more like a rosy pink red in reality.

BTW - I saw some other rams at the LFS the other day where I got these and they had a golden color over their whole body but they were clearly blue rams with the familiar blue and black markings.

My Scapes
Post InfoPosted 27-Jun-2006 22:02Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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had a golden color over their whole body but they were clearly blue rams with the familiar blue and black markings
Oh no

What are we going to call these then? Non-German-Golden-Blue-Rams?



BTW, I am glad your Rams are still doing fine,

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 27-Jun-2006 23:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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What's in a name ? They are all the same fish, German, Blue
whatever they are called. A bit like like some people calling Myriophyllium names like "Frill" and Parrots Feather - doesn't change the fact it's the same plant.

There a Gold variety coming out of Asia now as well as other monstrosities like balloon and "jumbo" Rams. Why, in the name of all that's holy, anybody would want to take such a spectacular fish and mess with it is beyond me. Especially to come out with a variety that has less color or a deformed shape. And people buy these? To me it's like some idiot playing with the genetics of a plant and coming out with a new one - "look, it only has 2 leaves, but they're big ones and instead of being bright green they're a dull grey - wanna buy it ?"

For the spot where the Wallichi is I wasn't thinking of another bunch plant. Something different , more dramatic. I'm thinking maybe a crypt, but something with flat broad leaves. Anubias Coffeefolia type thing. Or one I think would really work visually , and no I'm not losing it, Spatterdock (Nuphar Japonica). Big unbelievably bright green ruffled lily type leaves, but it stays low doesn't head for the surface like lilies. Added bonus - algae resistant I really think that would work a treat !

Another option, if you can find it - Aponogeton Capuroni. Lovely plant, green transluscent ruffled leaves but unlike other Apons it maxes out at about 12' height , stays a nice size.


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Right on, Bensaf

I personally think ballon Rams are truely ugly, like a bloated version of the normal Ram.

About the plant recommendations: I will have to check all these plants out, maybe I like them for my own tank. One question though - the Aponogeton Capuroni, is that one of the type that will periodically melt or become static before it starts to grow again (like most Apons) ?

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Balloon rams look like fish that are extremely constipated.
Poor things. I've also seen the long-finned ones as well

Bensaf,

I will definitely look into some of those plants. It's been quite some time since I've added any new species, but I don't want my tank looking like a salad bar or a defensive line-up for a free kick

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In the fish hobby it is every guy trying to make a quick buck.

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Just to play devil's advocate about the rams - I wholeheartedly agree about the physical deformities, but sometimes i think the Gold ram variety is quite nice looking. They're not dyed, it's just a color variation. Although I do admit, the point about messing with a good thing is taken - for a bright beautiful little fish like the german ram to exist in the wild is amazing, why mess with it?


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About the Gold Ram:

I have to say that I have a hard time with this fish. Although its coloration is not ugly or such, I am only reminded that this is a Ram (of any kind) when I see the fish moving around in the tank in a typical Ram fashion, like defending territories against other Rams, stop and go, and what not. When I just look at the fish briefly I cannot even identify it as a Ram.

Maybe I just have to get used to it first before it appears normal to me. But maybe I don't want to get used to it

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Speaking of golden varieties. Did anyone ever see these.



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No, I don't

Looks like your tank though. I would call these Albino Rummies or Match Rummies, if I had to invent a name for them.

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Looks like your tank though

Actually the pic is from APC, but I did see these in the LFS.

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Aponogeton Capuroni, is that one of the type that will periodically melt or become static before it starts to grow again (like most Apons) ?


Another advantage of the Capuroni is that while it will hybernate from time to time it doesn't melt and the bulb doesn't need to be removed , it simply will not produce a new leaf for a few weeks. I'll see if I have any good pics of mine.

Tetra I understand what you are saying about the salad bar which was why I wasn't envisioning another stem plant. I was thinking something broad but low to add a new shape to the tank while at the same time highlighting the big bunch of "flowers" in the center. You remember the winning tank from the AGA contest? I was think along those lines as regards function but for your set up I was think low and broad rather then the tall lily. Spatterdock came to mind not just because the shape is ideal but the incredible bright green of that plant would really pop out of the Wisteria field and then blend in with the explosion of color you have in the middle of your tank. The Anubias Coffeefolia would be a far more subtle , more mysterious version of that idea.

Well you probably saw my comments on the albino rummies on the thread in APC. It's the perfect case in point. Rummies are famed for their color, why oh why anybody thinks we need an albino version is beyond me. Why have that drab cream color when you can have the bright silver with a green irredescense that a normal rummie has? It's not about ethics as such , I just don't see the point.





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Spatterdock came to mind not just because the shape is ideal but the incredible bright green of that plant would really pop out of the Wisteria field and then blend in with the explosion of color you have in the middle of your tank.

Yes that does sound nice

It's not about ethics as such , I just don't see the point.

Yes, I did see your comments and I agree! It's tough to top mother nature!

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EditedEdited by tetratech
No these are not fish eggs .


I get alot of pearling with the "I can't count the bubble rate" method. All plants pearl most everynite with the exception of the riccia because it's very low and the shading has to be minimal. Last nite (6 days post-WC) I had some insane pearling. I've never seen my wisteria pearl this way before.





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Very nice pearling tetratech,

But are you sure that it is not some hair algae on the Wisteria leaves that pearls? I find that algae in general, and in particular in higher elevations, makes very good bubblers.

I am not implying that this is the case in your specific case, but it could be.

Do you have any idea why it may pearl on that particular day so well? Can it be that on that day you have reached optimum levels of nutrients and CO2 levels?

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But are you sure that it is not some hair algae on the Wisteria leaves that pearls?



Well if it is "hair" algae it's Albino.
Your probably right about the co2 and ferts. Actually I was getting alittle nervous last nite because many of my fish were at the surface. I routinely raise my spraybar slightly out of the water in the evening to create some more o2 exchange.

It wasn't only that one leaf, there were streams of bubbles all over the tank.

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In case your wondering the Rams seem to be fine after 17 days. Here's a few current pics.



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And the other:



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Another shot

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These guy is very friendly

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Well if it is "hair" algae it's Albino


That fish-on-surface part was very interesting. So you must either assume that your CO2 is too high, or your O2 is too low. The latter should not be the case as your plants wouldn't pearl if the water would not be O2 saturated. So, what makes the fish gasp at the surface? Too much intake of CO2 although there is enough O2 in the water?

Rams look nice, pictres are of excellent quality. I am glad to hear/read/see that things are going so much better with them for you then they did for me.

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Tetra,
Do you have any readings on your CO2? I tested mine last night and came up with:

Ph: 6.7-8
Kh: 17
CO2: 81ppm

I turned it down a little bit....

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LF,
Many fish were at the surface last nite, not all but many. Although the plants pearl and co2 doesn't displace o2 there is still alot of co2 in the water. So I guess I'm pushing it right now. I do notice when I've acclimated new fish in the evening they went right to the surface if I did it too quickly.

Wings,
I can't even get an accurate co2 reading because my ph color is as yellow as the chart gets, but assuming my ph is 6 and my kh I know is 2 I'm looking at 60ppm. I'm very leary of the whole kh/ph chart thing.....


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I'm very leary of the whole kh/ph chart thing
Now, canyou explain why that would be? Of all the measurements and calculations that I love soooo much, this chart seems to be the most reliable, given that you don't add any buffers and such to the water.

Or do you mean the inaccuracy of the test kits that would get you to the right column (ph) and row (KH) ?

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Well there's a whole discussion about this on APC, but I have a problem with it for a few reasons. First off most people don't know there exact PH. If your using a typical test kit, it's easy to be off by at least .2.

So if you measured your ph at 6.3 and your kh is 2 than you have the 30ppm that is so desired. But in reality if your ph is 6.5 then your running short of 19ppm. Can you say for sure you have the 30ppm by using the chart?

Secondly the measurement of co2 relies on the kh being buffered by carbonates. What if there's something in your tap that is different? This would invalidate the reading as well. I still find it hard to believe that someone with a 6.3 ph and a kh of 2 is running 30ppm and someone with the same ph and a kh of 10 is running 150ppm.

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tetratech,

I hear you on the inaccuracy of test kits and as such a quite broad range of possible CO2 values when crossing two elements (ph and KH).

The one thing I don't question at all is, given accurate measurements (or simply assuming them as fact) of ph and KH, that CO2 concentrations are base on these cross points, that seems to me to be a pure chemistry effect. I mean, hypothetically, a 6.3 ph and a kh of 2 is running 30ppm and a 6.3 ph and a kh of 10 is running 150ppm, that is just a fact. Why would it not be that way?

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The one thing I don't question at all is, given accurate measurements (or simply assuming them as fact) of ph and KH, that CO2 concentrations are base on these cross points, that seems to me to be a pure chemistry effect

Is it? Far be it for me to question german science, but I believe the KH reading is inaccurate for several reasons:

1. Too many elements, etc. in the tap and water column that might influence that number and they aren't necessarily carbonates.
2. Why is KH measured in a rounded number like 2 or 3, why isn't it 2.5 or 3.6?

Maybe it's me but when someone tells me there co2 is 120ppm and everythings fine I tend to doubt the number?


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In my science class I am in right now we just talked about the words Truth and Fact. We basicly descided that they were not good science words. Our scientific beliefs should be ever changing due to new research and technology. It think it is good for tetra to question such things. Far too often we take things for truth or fact just because we are told they are. If someone tells us its true then why question it. We should question thing so we know the truth or at least have a much better understanding of a subject matter.

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EditedEdited by FRANK
Hi,
Actually, the values could easily be 2.349746... But, how
accurate do we need to be? This is not a lab, and I
believe generalities is close enough. You have gotten a
glimpse of this in another sense, as you planted bunches
of fast growing stem plants and then later, replaced them
with slower growing plants. How many cabomba = one sword,
or vice versa? How many wisteria?
There are numerous examples... How many epsi = one platy
(waste wise)...etc.

As one who has a scientific background, I prefer to carry
things out into decimal places, and the IF/THEN of logic,
but this is a hobby.
IF my KH is 4, AND my pH is 6.6, THEN my CO2 saturation
is 30mg/l. At least that is what "my" chart says. But
someone else may have carried their computations out
a couple of more places, or used digital equipment for
measuring instead of drops of reagents.
Now it could be 28.5 or it could be 32.0 but
for what we are dealing with, I feel it is "close enough
for government work."

We are right to question, that is how we learn, but I'm
not sure how "hung up" we need to get.

Just my $0.02.
Frank


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EditedEdited by tetratech
If someone tells us its true then why question it. We should question thing so we know the truth or at least have a much better understanding of a subject matter.

Wings, excellent relevant point. It wasn't too long ago that many aquarist (myself included) and many still do think that no3,po4 increases algae even in an well planted tank.

Actually, the values could easily be 2.349746... But, how accurate do we need to be?

Well I agree with that depending on the context we are talking about. Look the whole EI thing is "Estimative" but we are not talking ferts we are talking co2. If we go by the chart and you have a measured ph of 6.5 and a kh of 2 then you have 19ppm of co2. Probably good enough for many planted tanks, but if your actual ph is 6.8, just .3 difference than your actual co2 is 9.5ppm or half. That's a big difference.

That's why if you are running high-tech tanks with all the bells and whistles you need to push the co2 based on visuals and not charts.

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I am with you on the pushing the CO2. I think we are in simmilar ball parks of where the line of too much CO2 is on our fish. Isn't it amazing how much a small difference in Ph is to your CO2?

If I remember what my boss what telling me. Ph is exponetial. Therefore the closer you are to 7 the less of a swing it really is. At either end the swing gets bigger. I would have to look at my chem books to make sure if this is "true" or not but looking at that and our CO2 things get a little messy. I think I am getting a little over my head with this.

Guess I should do my home work now being I am brain fried with my hobby!

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EditedEdited by tetratech
I still haven't totally fiqured out the pearling thing, but tonite I have massive pearling on my riccia. I actually didn't think it would happen with my wattage and the depth that the riccia is. The following are several pics of rams over pearling riccia. I don't think it get's much better than that.

Notice the pearling on the wisteria leaf as well.



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Male Blue Ram

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Here's a nice comparison shot of the blues and bolivians as they move about the tank together. Totally peaceful I guess until fry arrive:



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Here's a few nice closeups:



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Blue Male


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Bolivian:



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EditedEdited by tetratech
The bolivians don't have as much color of course:
Yeah Ingo there's some bba on the rock behind the ram


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but the definitely have more personality:



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Very nice ram pictures. They look great. The bolivions are not as colorful as the blues but they are still a sharp fish.

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Thanks Wings, The bolivans are definitely more interesting. One of mine is going to be two years old soon.

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Well I noticed my filter wasn't on this morning and I remembered unplugging it last nite to take a pic so that explains the riccia pearling. This happened a month or so ago and Bensaf explained the add'l oxygen available since the biofilter wasn't consuming it. So if you guys want to force some pearling why don't you give it a try. I would only recommend it on a fully planted tank though and you must proceed at your own risk.

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Great great great pictures, tetratech,

So clear and beautiful in color

Hey - I never said that there are inaccuracies in all kinds of things, like test kits and what not. All I said that the chemical relationship between ph and KH can be assumed a constant, meaning cross points will show proper CO2 values. Now, all the parts that may influence the proper values for the axis (ph and KH) is a completely different story. But I never claimed it was that simple, so no need to bash me for believing in the nature of chemistry

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But I never claimed it was that simple, so no need to bash me for believing in the nature of chemistry

Me no bash you Little_Fish

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*Stands back so I can get a good view of tetra and LF swinging their purses at each other*


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Hey now,

That is a Man-Purse from Europe (but I guess you don't know Seinfeld, so that may not make sense to you).

Anyway tetratech, all is good on the Ram frontier? I wonder if you can credit the UV for this one as well? Would make sense to me, at least.

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EditedEdited by tetratech
That is a Man-Purse from Europe (but I guess you don't know Seinfeld, so that may not make sense to you).


I prefer "European Carry All" Bensaf you know you have one. That's why your always getting into trouble in Indonesia.

LF,
The rams seem fine, this Thursday will be a month, but you never know with blue rams. Yes I do think the UV has something to do with it along with a very good biofilter.
Many fish have a tendency to get infections and as Untitled pointed out that is probably what you fish died of. But the believe the key is not necessarily to get fish that don't have these infections (which is probably pretty hard to do) but to keep it suppressed in the same way we keep algae spores suppressed.

Thing about all animals including us have a tendency to get infections if we are stressed enough. Most of the time these things are suppressed but when we go to far off center the infections come. Come to thing of it, isn't that the way it is with Algae. Isn't Bensaf always saying the algae spores are always there. We just have to keep them suppressed by not given them the conditions they want.

Untitled might have access to a good breed of fish maybe the water is better who knows but I haven't lost a cardinal since I could remember. I still have all 23. Here's a pic of the happy couple:



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LITTLE_FISH
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Yes I do think the UV has something to do with it along with a very good biofilter.
I guess if I ever would like to have Rams again then this is something I should try. Although, wouldn't that mean that I have to change my filtration setup (too powerfull in GpH) for the big tank, plus, wouldn't I need one on the QT as well (which has only a HOB)?

Also, not that I question it, but what makes your biofilter very good?

And, nice shot of the rams, you will soon scramble for a breeding tank

Ingo


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Hi tetratech

Beautiful tank & fish pictures.
The Bolivians are definitely more interesting.
I'm interested what you mean by this. What do the Bolivians do that is more interesting than the other rams?

Cheers
TW
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Thanks Robyn,

The bolivians seem to show more of a "pet" personality always interacting with me at the front of the tank compared to the blue rams.



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NowherMan6
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Also, not that I question it, but what makes your biofilter very good?


ABout 60 pounds of wisteria, I'd say...


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Post InfoPosted 09-Jul-2006 22:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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ABout 60 pounds of wisteria, I'd say...
'
Who's counting, but I think it's more like 68 pounds .

Anyway, here's a full shot from tonite. Not my greatest scaping moment, but everything going fine with the tank.
In this pick the stargrass is too low and the rotala and aromatica too tall.

Speaking of wisteria. I'm noticing that the lower levels are leaving the substrate and pushing some of the wisteria up alittle to much. In the left side of the tank some of the wisteria is almost a foot tall when you count all the layers. After 9 months or so I might have to start pulling some out and replanting.



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Another plant that is probably at it's fullest since getting it is the Blyxa. It seems to have finally gotten comfortable in the tank. Still green, but it's pretty lush. I might have to make room for a too grow some more.



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On the other hand I've sorta given up on the rotala wallachi. Not that it won't grow but it really doesn't fit so I've sort of let the wisteria outcompete for space and light. I think I'll probably look for a low wide plant that can grow about the jungle of wisteria as Bensaf mentioned. The pearling is just fanastic almost a frenzy of sorts with bubbles everywhere. Here's a pic of the Rotala doing it's thing.



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I think the tank looks as good as it always did (except maybe during the green water / willow branch phase).

I don't find the Wisteria on the left too tall yet, but I see where you are coming from. In general, I think having one side of the tank ending higher than the other is a good thing.

Sorry to hear that the wallachi doesn't seen to work out, but hey, gives you a nice reason to buy a new species, without increasing the number of species overall.

Glad to hear that the Blyxa is doing fine, the few small stems that I added to my 40G seem to settle nicely as well. I bet you that your removal of the big rock and the trimming back of the main group, resulting in more light, has a lot to do with it.

Nice job as usual, tetratech,

Ingo


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I think the tank looks as good as it always did (except maybe during the green water / willow branch phase).

What you didn't like the GW / Willow thing.
Thanks, but I think my tank looks best with a tighter mound arrangement, but everyone sees different things.

Yep, your probably right about the blyxa and the rock/trimming. Keeping enough light on it consistenty is the key to keeping it growing and clean.





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Check out this guy. Right in the co2 stream. You could actually see the stream going around the oto. Does the tubing like familiar? Probably the same stuff you have. It's starting to be a pain-in-the-you-know-what. I came home from work again and the bubbles were coming out of the contact point between the tubing and the diffusor. This is a serious issue that I'll have to fix soon because I know the fluctating co2 will lead to BBA.

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First the fish thought the diffuser was a toilet bowl, now an Otto that thinks it's a jacuzzi

About the tubing, how about of those plastic tie things, sorry can't remember what they're called, you know the ones you pull tight and they can't be pulled back open. Like the plastic handcuffs the cops use now (why do I know that )


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About the tubing, how about of those plastic tie things, sorry can't remember what they're called

That's a really good idea and they come in black too.

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Have you also tried dipping the end of the tube in hot water so it expands and loosens, then push it onto the diffuser as far as possible? Once it cools down the tubing will contract and should form a tight seal.


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Good idea Nowher. I have had the problem of lossing the seal in my tank too.

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To bring CO2 to my reactor I use a gasoline hose that normally is used for miniature airplanes They are very ... eh ... rubber-ish (? - I really can't come up with the right word right now, it's past midnight and I'm leaving on a 10 day vacation tomorrow at 5 am) and resistant to the acidic breakdown that you get with the "normal" airhoses. I've had it in the tank now for 1½ years and it still is as good as new.
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I would think that "fusing" a tube to a diffuser is not the best idea as it would render the elements hitched forever. That would be bad if you would try to clean the diffuser in bleach (which I don't do anymore, at least since the last 6 weeks, as Excel is working well).

This is the old problem of wanting it both ways: attached enough so it doesn't come off, but not enough to be stuck on it for good.

Ingo

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Post InfoPosted 12-Jul-2006 23:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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I would think that "fusing" a tube to a diffuser is not the best idea

I agree, but did I miss something, who said that?
To be honest I didn't have any of these problems when I was using Lee's stealth Black tubing. I've probably go back to that. The bubble intensity seemed the same. Maybe it will just need to be changed more often as it will breakdown.

Anyway I temporarily, solved the problem by using a different airline tubing "Topline Silicone Air Line Tubing"
It's a lovely shade of blue as depicted below.




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I would think that "fusing" a tube to a diffuser is not the best idea as it would render the elements hitched forever.
I use the hot water method to expand & then slip the tube on. It doesn't "fuse" just fits tight. While the fit is nice & tight, several times I have needed to remove the tubing & have always managed it (eg when I disconneded my DIY C02 - when I disconnected my air bubbles - when I added my solenoid). Yes, it may take longer (not much) to remove due to it's snug fit, but it's definitely not fused. Never used it to attach to delicate glass - that may be different. Nearly always used this method (not to glass), as the tubing I use is usually hard to get on in the first place, so hot water makes the installation easier. Anyway, just my $0.02

Cheers
TW
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Right on topic, last night when I came home my tubing was off again .

About the hot water: I understand the process, but does that mean that you have to use the hot water each time when you want to re-attach the tubing after you took it off for cleaning etc. ?

Last night I just stuck it back on, I think I will either try tetratech's double sucktion cup attempt or I will change it this weekend (hopefully when the plants are here) and put the gray ADA tubing in place.

Ingo


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EditedEdited by TankWatcher
So far I have not had to clean my bubble counter, it has never been dirty, but I did have to remove the tubing when I installed the solenoid. It came off, but with enough of a struggle that it would be a nuisance if you had to do it every week. When I clean my C02 reactor, the lid comes off, complete with the tubing attached. I agree that it would be a big hassle, if I couldn't do that, as the tubing does fit very snugly after being heated. If I had to regularly remove tubing from something, you're right that I may think twice about making it such a tight fit.

Point goes to Ingo

Apart from that point, though, it is actually how LFS told me to do it & I know I get a much more secure fit than by just pushing it on.

Cheers
TW
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About the hot water: I understand the process, but does that mean that you have to use the hot water each time when you want to re-attach the tubing after you took it off for cleaning etc.


I did when I had the CO2 tank set up, but I really never saw the big deal about sticking a glass of water in the microwave for a minute while the tank was draining Not that much work IMO and it did the job.

I guess for a diffuser you can make the argument it's unnecessary, but for conecting tubing to a cannister filter and to a UV, and in situations where you're splitting the tubing a few times I think it's vital to heat up the ends to get as secure a fit as possible. I know I couldn't push the tubes onto fittings dry as far as I could when they were heated.


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After around 4 1/2 weeks all seems fine with the blue rams.
Here's a current pic. The pearling is after a water change but it makes a nice pic nontheless:



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Just when you think it's under control
Total was the first day in about a week where I had consistent co2 diffusion. In other words the hose didn't come off the glass tip, but this brought a few problems to light. Firstly I noticed some strange behavior with my fish and shrimp. Some of the pencils and the rainbow fish were at the top definitely gasping. The bolivians and the amano shrimp turned almost black. One of my otos doesn't look too good. It also was the first time I saw all my otos and I counted 9, but it maybe 8 after tonite. My conclusion for this that the co2 numbers were gradually decreasing over the week because of the problems with the tubing and now today it was at full tilt and the fish couldn't handle it. As I've mentioned before when I acclimate new fish now I notice they gasp if they are acclimated at nite so this definitely makes sense.

Upon a closer examination of the tank I noticed an increase in BBA and on plant leaves (aromatica) that I never had before. This I believe was also caused by the reduction in co2. So a little problem like a tube coming off a diffusor can create some pretty big issues. It's all about small changes.

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From an aquascaping standpoint here's the tank tonite. A couple of things:

Wisteria:
I removed all the wisteria from the left side of the tank and replanted fresh tops. These is the first time I've done this since setting up the tank more than 9 months ago. The wisteria was so layered it was starting to look kinda ratty. The wisteria just from the left side filled a bucket. I resisted uprooting the wisteria on the right as well. BTW I don't know if this contributed to the BBA problem I saw, but it certainty didn't help and wasn't the best time to have done this in retrospect. I've noticed before there is a fine line between controlling BBA and the consistency of the co2 output.

Blyxa:
Since I thinned out the wisteria on the left I decided to give the blyxa some more room to spread it's wings so I have about 7 bunches going on an angle toward the large rock.

Rotala R.
I expanded this group as well wrapping it around the center DW and along the front and side of the left group of stargrass.

Here's a pic from tonite:





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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2006 01:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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Here's a pic showing the tank tonite (Lower pic) with a pic when grow was fuller creating a nice mound effect. To each their own, but I think the top pic show my tank in it's full glory.



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Nothing more to say, other than SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL

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Still looking real good.

The change to both the Rotala and the wisteria were good moves.

Thinning the Wisteria has certainly added more depth.


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I agree with the posters before me, looking very nice, and a change is (almost) always good.

I hear you on the darn diffuser thing, last night when I came home the one in my 40G completely fell off again . I find it more of a specific diffuser size issue than a tubing issue, as the blue tube in my 125 never ever came off, but the diffuser is one with 8 coils . The one in the 40G has this glass weight inside that works like a bubble counter, the gas has to push it up to pass by on the side of it. This may cause enough back-pressure to further increase the need for expansion in the tubing, and as such the losening of the hose.

About your tank, yeah - wrapping was a nice idea,and giving the fancy (compared to Wisteria) Blyxa more space to shine is also a good thing. I am certain your main group will grow to resemble the earlier appearance very closely.

Nice tank, my fellow planter

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2006 13:22Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
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well I certainly appreciate all the accolades

Nothing more to say, other than SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL
Still looking real good.
Nice tank, my fellow planter

..and of course nowher who's a man of few words:


LF,
About the diffusor, If you put a suction cup on the tubing above the diffusor and a then give it some slack it doesn't pull from the top as much. That's what I've done and it's been good for a couple of days now.

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You know you're a planted tank nerd when you spend the better part of a week discussing the ramifications of attaching tubing to a diffuser this way or that...


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The older tank shot really shows off the colors you have produced nicely but I truly love the rotala grouping around the drift wood. It is kind of a sub-mound which makes it a little more interesting.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 18-Jul-2006 20:34Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
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The older tank shot really shows off the colors you have produced nicely but I truly love the rotala grouping around the drift wood. It is kind of a sub-mound which makes it a little more interesting.

Yes I would agree with that. The top of the aromatica in the older shot really colored up. Might be all I can manage with my wattage.

I find the rotala r one of the easiest plants to trim and work with. It doesn't has a good solid feel to it and it doesn't grow outrageously fast, while the stargrass grows fast and tends to get "messy" very quickly. The aromatica wideleaf is a great plant but you must use your hands to plant it's heavy stems even in the eco.

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A couple of foreground shots:



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A closer look of the riccia covered rocks:



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A shot of the Riccia thru the expanded Blyxa group from the left side of the tank. Gives a nice rugged carpet look.


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You're welcome

And it's so nice to see your face at last in the new AV. Funny but you look just like I thought you would !


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Very nice shots Tetra. Riccia sure is a nice plant. It works really well with your tank. You only started with an inch square of the stuff didn't you?

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That is the other enhancement that I see, when comparing the tank now to earlier:

Not only has the riccia grown, you also gave it more structure, in particular height diversion. Earlier, it was more of a flat row, like a saussage

Funny but you look just like I thought you would !


Ingo


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EditedEdited by tetratech
Wings,
Yep. They sold it by the square inch at the LFS. Had enough to thinly cover two small stones. Never bought anymore.

LF,
Yeah I really like the riccia. If you use different height rocks the riccia grows about the same above each rock so the different heights develop. The rocks are probably due for a trim. I could definitely see what some people do riccia only tanks. I honestly find it really easy to work with as long as you use hairnets

Glad you guys like the new av. Yeah I though it was a pretty good self portrait.

P.S. In case you guys are interested I did start my Reef Log: http://www.fishprofiles.com/files/threads/30106.1.htm?8#
There are some parallels to planted aquaria so you might be able to contribute something

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O.K. I had to move things around for the addition of the reef tank. The new tank is going to go in the bedroom where my 12g currently is so that meant I had to find a new home for it. Well I always wanted a "Wet Bar" and now I have one. The 12g is now located in my kitchen that houses a small bar.



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Here's a closer shot:



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Tetra,

I am really blown away from your shots! The last one is the best. It shows off both of your tanks but the veiw of your 72 is extra great. It gives you a better perspective than just the strait on veiw we normaly give each other. Must say that it is quite artistic.

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[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
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That last photo is the best shot I've seen of your main tank. I really do wish you showed a bit more light in your tank photo's - I always get the feeling the pics don't do the tank justice.

BTW, what's the monkey staring at


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 04:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks for the comments. I had a feeling that last shot was a good one. Wings once you get your camera you'll be taking nice shots as well.

I really do wish you showed a bit more light in your tank photo's - I always get the feeling the pics don't do the tank justice.

Well I'll tell you why my shots are usually on the darkside I can't take shots during the day, because my tank faces the western back of my house and faces a sliding door and window which produce to much glare to get a clean photo. This is also when my tank is running the 192watts. Most of the photos I take are with only 96watts of light, so I could probably get better photos by making sure all the lights are on or forcing more light on top. Also my camera is limited with a top ISO setting of 400. Some of the SLR cameras go much higher in ISO setting allowing better photos with less light.


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Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 04:32Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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So on a different note.... Tetra, you have rams in this tank and shrimp. Do your rams ever go after the shrimp? I am kind of thinking of adding a curvacep to my tank but I don't want to have it make a snack out of my Cherry shrimp. Any thoughts?

55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 14:57Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bratyboy2
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havent been here in god knows how long but everything looks great in my opinion!!! anywho keep it up but in my opinion i really like the more fuller look to the tank really shows off the height and length of it

keep it going master tank designer...BENSAF BETTER GET A LOG UP HERE SOON TO COMEPETE!!!
Post InfoPosted 20-Jul-2006 19:33Profile AIM Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
So on a different note.... Tetra, you have rams in this tank and shrimp. Do your rams ever go after the shrimp? I am kind of thinking of adding a curvacep to my tank but I don't want to have it make a snack out of my Cherry shrimp. Any thoughts?

My cherry shrimps are all in my 12g with a school of Gold Tetras and kuli loaches so there are no problems there. In my 72g I have only Amano Shrimp and the Rainbows, Bolivians and Blues don't even look at them.


keep it going master tank designer...BENSAF BETTER GET A LOG UP HERE SOON TO COMPETE!!!

Thanks Bratyboy2. Yeah Bensaf

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Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 04:07Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
Wingsdlc
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Ahh I thought you had some Cherry's in this tank but I was wrong. Thanks for the info. Sorry to post random question on your log.


55G Planted tank thread
19G Container Pond
[IMG]http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y118/Wingsdlc/Ric
Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 13:12Profile AIM PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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BENSAF BETTER GET A LOG UP HERE SOON TO COMPETE!!!


I don't need a log. I let this do the talking

Attached Image:



Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 16:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bratyboy2
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yeppers looks good!!!! all hale to BENSAF
Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 19:31Profile AIM Yahoo PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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That's one hell of a hotch-potch
Very lush. Don't get me wrong the tank works because of the plant placement and different textures next to it, but any chance of alittle more DW peaking thru.

Bensaf I forget how deep is your tank. I'm surprised your able to grow the plants so full and overlapping each other with your light. Have you increased wattage overall?

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Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 22:47Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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EditedEdited by NowherMan6
Not so much worried about the hodge podge of plants, but the fish...

What do we have: 1 bosmani rainbow , one dwarf neaon rainbow, some r. hengali, rummynose tetras, pearl gourami, cherry barbs a few otos and a partridge in a pear tree...


.. no wait, not a partridge in a pear tree... a krib it appears.

Hey, at least you're a good selector of plants...


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 21-Jul-2006 22:51Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
bensaf
 
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EditedEdited by bensaf
The picture is a couple of weeks old. I've tidied up a bit since. There's a lot of wood in there, about 7 decent sized pieces. Most have become overgrown with Ferns and mosses. Showing more of the wood will be a big job. I will be moving by the end of the year so this tank will be a thing of the past In the meantime I don't want to do any major re-organising and will just let it do it's thing.

It's a fairly deep and tall tank. It's a about 22" deep so it does allow a lot of overlapping. Although if I had to do it again I'd push everything back and have a more open forground. I'd also have done the wood and rocks differently so as they stay visible. Envisioning how a tank will look 6 donths down the road and taking that into account is something I'm only starting to learn.

Because of the tank size and the way the plants are arranged I did add another couple of T5 bulbs at the back . This was more for light spread rather then more intensity. With one fixture lots of the tank wasn't getting light. Theres now about 186watts whaich is about 2.8 wpg.

Nowhere, you're right about the fish -it's a mess of a selection. But this tank has been going in various forms for 3 years now and there are a few fish that hung on where their bretheren have since gone to the aquarium in the sky. Should really find a good home for the odd guys out. I'd like to stick with the school of rummies and pencil fish ,there are larges schools in there but they were obviously camera shy, the Gouramies and maybe the Krib and get rid of the rest. It does distract from the overall look.


Some days you're the pigeon and some days you're the statue.

Remember that age and treachery will always triumph over youth and ability.
Post InfoPosted 22-Jul-2006 04:08Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Because of the tank size and the way the plants are arranged I did add another couple of T5 bulbs at the back . This was more for light spread rather then more intensity. With one fixture lots of the tank wasn't getting light. Theres now about 186watts whaich is about 2.8 wpg.
Your overall wattage is pretty much what I have (2.7wpg) although your tank is 4" deeper. How are those T5 bulbs in comparison to the same wattage CF?

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Post InfoPosted 24-Jul-2006 04:24Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
A couple of select shots:

The ricca foreground is in full bloom and will probably need to trimmed soon. Besides looking nice the rainbows, rams and shrimp feed off of it constantly and it really hasn't done much damage to it.


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Post InfoPosted 24-Jul-2006 04:34Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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A closer shot:



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Post InfoPosted 24-Jul-2006 04:38Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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EditedEdited by tetratech
Moving further away, here's a full tank shot: Check out the little piece of wisteria that made it's way under the main rock and appears in the riccia group.



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Post InfoPosted 24-Jul-2006 04:39Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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And a shot even further away of the "Fish Kitchen"



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Post InfoPosted 24-Jul-2006 04:41Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
slickrb
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Tetra,

I really like the pictures of both tanks with you standing back a bit. You really get a different perspective. Very neat.

Rick
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Post InfoPosted 25-Jul-2006 02:17Profile Homepage PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Thanks Slickrb. It's interesting to see different perspectives. You pick up alot of things you wouldn't ordinary realize.

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Post InfoPosted 25-Jul-2006 02:42Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
LITTLE_FISH
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Tetratech,

I like your fish-kitchen-tank shot and the one where you cut off the top part of the 72. That one looks almost as it would have the dimensions of a 125 and I can easily imagine what a beautiful layout this would be in such a large tank.

I am almost sure that you are toying with the thought of removing your main group and instead having a typical "less-is-more" Amano style tank, with such a lovely Riccia setup.

Ingo


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Post InfoPosted 26-Jul-2006 01:05Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
tetratech
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Boy LF, talk about "cold turkey" I was getting worried about you. This place is like a ghost town without your 10.9 posts per day average.

I am almost sure that you are toying with the thought of removing your main group and instead having a typical "less-is-more" Amano style tank, with such a lovely Riccia setup.

You know me so well I would love to do that. Maybe I should skip the reef and do that with my 46g. Only kidding Matty, but I would love to have another tank to try that. Maybe if I get bored with my 12g I'll convert it to a co2 higher-light tank.

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Post InfoPosted 26-Jul-2006 01:57Profile PM Edit Delete Report 
NowherMan6
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It's not a bad idea, but in order to pull if off I think you'd need to add more substrate and get some taller rocks in there. The 72 is pretty tall for a riccia/ hairgrass/ rocks Amano set-up, I think they work best in longer shallow tanks.


Back in the saddle!
Post InfoPosted 26-Jul-2006 02:01Profile PM Edit Delete Report